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2,420 comments Add your comment
BravesWin
May 30th, 2012
4:20 pm
Not to excuse poor performance on the the field, but you gotta figure the 20-consecutive game stretch is taking its toll. Nice scheduling, MLB.
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
4:21 pm
I know that difficult for some of you to wrap your minds around…you know, nuance and complexity. _ Shaun
And you have no idea just how funny that is coming from you, Shaun.
raleighbravefan
May 30th, 2012
4:24 pm
Shaun – If by “equal value” you mean WAR…well, I think WAR is way over valued…but then I managed to avoid Viet Nam and “dodge” the draft by being in college.
MikeInFl
May 30th, 2012
4:24 pm
Crazy – Enough with the golf talk anyway
Agreed. I try never to talk golf with guys who shoot 72 – 80. (good for you, though).
dvainer
May 30th, 2012
4:25 pm
Hey Dave could we get an update on Chipper and whether or not it looks like he will be ready to play on June 8?
ncscoots
May 30th, 2012
4:26 pm
I don’t want to go all martyr here, but do you guys have any idea of how hard it is for me to speak as glowingly of Heyward as I did earlier, knowing that, within minutes, Shaun would be able to bust up any good karma generated thereby, LOL?
raleighbravefan
May 30th, 2012
4:26 pm
BravesWin – I agree about the schedule…killer 20 game stretch, followed by tough series vs Nats, then the toughest interleague play in MLB. I think someone is still punishing us for the TBS connection, and for the 14 titles.
Arkansas Transplant
May 30th, 2012
4:27 pm
Has Gattis been playing lately or is he hurt? Does anyone know?
Murph
May 30th, 2012
4:27 pm
Not too sound like a buttface, but he was getting back on track when he was batting fifth (.324 with 2 2Bs, 1 HR, 7 RBI, 5 BB, 0 K’s in 6 games)…
Those were pre-flu games, though.
Besides, as Shaun has said, it shouldn’t matter to the hitter where they are hitting. A professional should be comfortable hitting 1st, 3rd, 5th, or 8th.
oxo momwow
May 30th, 2012
4:28 pm
First!
bravesgrl4life
May 30th, 2012
4:28 pm
I am convinced that MLB and ESPN hate the Braves. With ESPN’s lack of coverage and MLB’s murderous scheduling, what else can you think?
Arkansas Transplant
May 30th, 2012
4:29 pm
What date is Chipper available to come off the DL?
TennesseePaul
May 30th, 2012
4:30 pm
Reasonable Expectations Cont…..
Alex Remington, March-2010: I think he could well hit 20-25 homers with a .280-.300 average and a .850+ OPS. Everywhere he has played, he has been an incredibly tough out. I don’t think that will change now that he’s earned a full-time role with the big boys.
Scouting Report, Top 50 Prospects – 2010: There’s little Heyward can’t do. He’s got great bat speed, with the ability to hit for average and power. He has an excellent knowledge of the strike zone. He’s got a plus arm from the outfield, runs well and is an excellent base-runner. His makeup is off the charts. Oh, and he’s only 20.
Keith Law – 2010 Top Prospect: Jason Heyward. Heyward’s ascent to the top of these rankings was swift and unimpeded, and his path to the majors appears to be much the same, as he’ll have a good chance to win the every-day right-field job this spring. Heyward will be a middle-of-the-order bat with power and patience while playing above-average defense in right with a plus arm….Everything else here points to stardom.
McFann :Ô: :Ô:
May 30th, 2012
4:32 pm
Murph—
True. But for whatever reason, 5 has (almost) always been his best spot, and third has always been his weakest…But, I also know that I have a tendency to overreact to practically everything, especially if it’s BMac-related…
So whatever. Hopefully it doesn’t stick and
you don’t have to keep hearing me whine we don’t have to keep talking about it…McFann :Ô: :Ô:
May 30th, 2012
4:33 pm
Stupid formatting…[garble garble curse words]…
CrαZy
May 30th, 2012
4:34 pm
Of course, many here have the patience of a 2 year old. Just my opinion.
Wait now… I’ve got a 2 year old and she…. ok yeah now that I think of it you’re right!!!
TennesseePaul
May 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
Do you really think that drastically changes the argument?
You are showing rankings Payne. Speaking not of Heyward, but of the theory of rankings… If you list the qualified right fielders and find a guy at the bottom of the list, then it shows he’s not particularly seen or definable as a top right fielder. But of course, if you throw in other position players to pad the list, refuse to acknowledge as much and just toss the ranking about it sounds pretty nice.
ncscoots
May 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
Reasonable Expectations Cont…..
TenPaul, where’s the one that said what Heyward is doing now would be a reasonable expectation? That one’s there, right?
brian
May 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
I see Fredi is again tonight putting the weakest hitter in the lineup in the 8 spot in the lineup
Atlrf44
May 30th, 2012
4:36 pm
Dave…why Constanza and not the RH OF from Gwinnet with 11 HRs down there??it’s only for a short time anyway and the Braves certainly do not need a weak hitting LH hitter..enuf LHs in line up already…and notice how well Carlos Quentin is doing!!!
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
4:36 pm
Shaun’s just being his usual tool self, scoots.
For some reason it drives him crazy to acknowledge that circumstances change things. In last years spring training he was adament that Heyward hit second because he was the best hitter on the team. Not some 21 year old kid we should not expect too much from.
Hell that’s okay, I thought and said I would have hit him second, or third, flipping with Chipper. Then things went horribly awry.
Gimper & McError
May 30th, 2012
4:36 pm
If McCann is so great he should be able to hit in any slot. But, the only thing McCann is hitting lately would be the six pack of mayonnaise in the fridge.
Lew
May 30th, 2012
4:38 pm
Shaun – Which WAR are you citing? The One Baseball reference made up or the one Baseball fangraphs invented?
Lew
May 30th, 2012
4:39 pm
By either (or neither), Heyward has been disappointing. No matter how often he walks.
Fredi
May 30th, 2012
4:40 pm
Well you gotta tip yer cap to the Cardinals…uh, wait – we won!?
Ok…as I was saying, we are eyeballing a pennant and got the W as expected.
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
4:42 pm
What’s up, jeff?
Got anything else to add. Maybe he should get up in front of the class and apologize.
Powder Blue
May 30th, 2012
4:42 pm
Heyward sucks.
phil
May 30th, 2012
4:42 pm
Based on his SI cover or covers, Heyward has been a shining success….
Ship Heyward to AAA (Rob from SC)
May 30th, 2012
4:43 pm
I love Heyward…But that plus bat speed disappeared with the thumb injury and has never come back. He can’t catch ujp to an average fastball. Let him go to triple A and hit like he did in April 10
ncscoots
May 30th, 2012
4:43 pm
Hell that’s okay, I thought and said I would have hit him second, or third, flipping with Chipper. Then things went horribly awry.
Oh, man, you weren’t alone. As I remember, uproar ensued when Fredo first talked about tentative lineups during the offseason of his hire. Heyward at 6? Is the man kuh-ray-zee? and like that.
Fish Bisch
May 30th, 2012
4:43 pm
Go Barves!
Brave New World
May 30th, 2012
4:45 pm
Jason Heyward has all the tools to be a star. Right now, all the tools are on his case. GO J-Hey, and GO BRAVES!
Ryan
May 30th, 2012
4:46 pm
Wish the Braves would give Gerrin the chance they gave Durbin he would of been sent down. sick of hearing Moylan tweets just another surgery away for getting paid on the DL. Same as Livan they say he can give you multi innings but they dont say how many runs.
Arkansas Transplant
May 30th, 2012
4:46 pm
Are we talking War and Peace?
phil
May 30th, 2012
4:47 pm
And right now, Brave New World is living in Never Never Land mentally…..
ncscoots
May 30th, 2012
4:48 pm
Let him go to triple A and hit like he did in April 10
This probably saddens me as much as anything about Heyward. Rob was ready to bring him up to the bigs practically out of rookie league, LOL, and now is ready to ship him out.
njbraves
May 30th, 2012
4:48 pm
Can we give Heyward a break already?? The kid is struggling…we know it, the Braves know it, and he knows it. From all accounts it’s not a lack of effort or an unwillingness to work, so how about we not cast aside a 23 year old because he hasn’t figured out MLB yet.
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
Rob has gone from “is Heyward hurt, DOB?” to send him down.
Shaun
May 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
TennesseePaul, most understand that not all prospects, most prospects, are not going to fully realize their potential at ages 20-22. Is that really so difficult to understand?
.253/.357/.426, 114 OPS+ with above average defense at ages 20-22 is on the right path.
If a player doesn’t hit 20-25 homers with a .280-.300 average and a .850+ OPS or isn’t a middle-of-the-order bat with power and patience while playing above-average defense in right with a plus arm in his first two seasons and two months at ages 20-22, doesn’t mean he’s already fallen short of reasonable expectations. It’s a little more complicated than that. I know it’s difficult for some to realize players’ production doesn’t plateau as soon as they reach the big leagues and remain constant every season, from season one to season 15 or 20 or however long they play. But believe it or not, there is a general aging pattern for position players: Offensively, they get better through their early-to-mid 20’s, peak in their late 20’s and start to decline in their 30’s. Perhaps there is a graph somewhere online if you are more visual, so that you can grasp this a little easier.
Threadkiller
May 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
Lew, You crack me up! That’s one of the main reasons i come on this blog. And the other reason is to see all the stupidity that comes out of the morons mouth!
ohhhhYEAH
May 30th, 2012
4:50 pm
why is Heyward STILL in the lineup? After that crap he pulled against Washington, being lazy with that ball hit by Harper, I dont see why Fredi hasnt sat him yet like he did Hanley when he was with Florida. Not to mention the fact that hes doing nothing at the plate lately. I can almost guess the way his at-bats are going to end every time. Pop up to the third base side, weak grounder to the first base side, or a big fat strikeout.
Brave New World
May 30th, 2012
4:51 pm
No Phil, just a Braves fan.
DAP
May 30th, 2012
4:51 pm
again, heyward really started struggling on may 12th. before that, he was OPSing over .850. he has had a long, bad slump, but that first month and a half might be more telling than the last 2.5 weeks.
CrαZy
May 30th, 2012
4:52 pm
Heyward needs to start pitching better!!!
nolie
May 30th, 2012
4:54 pm
Like Bill Shanks said, Heyward had potential before he was brought up, now he has been in the big leagues for 2 and half seasons and still cannot make adjustments during an at bat.
Shanks is a total idiot who champions every prospect like they were the coming of Ted Williams and throws them under the bus for a newer prospect as soon as they have a few years in the bigs. Total freaking prospect-hugger without an ounce of actual baseball knowledge in his brain, he simply parrots what he hears the Braves saying
phil
May 30th, 2012
4:54 pm
njbraves
May 30th, 2012
4:48 pm
Can we give Heyward a break already?? The kid is struggling…we know it, the Braves know it, and he knows it. From all accounts it’s not a lack of effort or an unwillingness to work, so how about we not cast aside a 23 year old because he hasn’t figured out MLB yet.
***********
I thought it wasn’t from a lack of effort either UNTIL I saw the lazy play on Harper’s hit.
At that moment, I was and remain no longer sure.
Lew
May 30th, 2012
4:54 pm
Threadkiller – Did you see his declaration yesterday that two different kinds of WAR were no different than two scout having somewhat differing opinions. And then he proceeeded to try and convince us he’d never been totally derogatory and dismissive to scouts’ evaluations in ther past?
CrαZy
May 30th, 2012
4:55 pm
Brave New World
One can be a Braves fan and be critical of the team. The best can be both critical of the team yet still be 100% into whoever is currently wearing the jersey. I might not think he needs to be on the roster (I’m not talking about J-Hey) but as long as he is I’m pulling for him!!
Powder Blue
May 30th, 2012
4:56 pm
“At that moment, I was and remain no longer sure.”
That’s what did it for me, too.
nolie
May 30th, 2012
4:56 pm
Those figgers must be wrong Davis, Lou assured us last season that Uggly was toast, and Lou always knows whereof he speaks ya know….
ncscoots
May 30th, 2012
4:57 pm
But believe it or not, there is a general aging pattern for position players…Perhaps there is a graph somewhere online if you are more visual, so that you can grasp this a little easier.
Believe it or not, exceptionally gifted players don’t follow general patterns. But I don’t think some graph is gonna help you grasp this any easier.
phil
May 30th, 2012
4:57 pm
Never being critical or having an opinion does not = being a “true” Braves fan, except in the tiniest of minds…
UKUGA
May 30th, 2012
4:59 pm
Hopefully, Huddy will fix those 2 pitches that cost him 7 runs last game and get the shut-out tonight.
Go Braves.
ohhhhYEAH
May 30th, 2012
4:59 pm
thats what did it for me too. and frankly, im tired of seeing it night after night.
bravesgrl4life
May 30th, 2012
4:59 pm
Later folks. On my way home.
phil
May 30th, 2012
4:59 pm
That general aging pattern for human beings in general sure doesn’t explain all those centenarians stumbling around out there either…
Shaun
May 30th, 2012
5:00 pm
Like Bill Shanks said, Heyward had potential before he was brought up, now he has been in the big leagues for 2 and half seasons and still cannot make adjustments during an at bat.
He might have a point if age wasn’t also a factor to be considered. Does he realize how long it took Furcal to put up back-to-back solid offensive seasons? It wasn’t until 2003-2004, his age 25-26 seasons, that Furcal put up consecutive seasons of at least a 95 OPS+.
Powder Blue
May 30th, 2012
5:00 pm
“thats what did it for me too. and frankly, im tired of seeing it night after night.”
And year after year.
Threadkiller
May 30th, 2012
5:00 pm
Lew, I also liked how he uses WAR to project Heyward as #14 in the league. Not mentionin that WAR has him top 5 in defense, which means offensively Heyward is around # 26..That’s bad! But I for one believes that everyday expeience will help him improve and get more confident.
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:00 pm
Can we give Heyward a break already?? The kid is struggling…we know it, the Braves know it, and he knows it.
phil knows it too but he thinks nobody else is aware of it so makes sure he says sumthang about it at least 37 times every day just to clue us in….
smallmouth6
May 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
Keep Constanza in the lineup.
phil
May 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
Crazy – amen to your 4:55….
I’m still pullin for em even if they’re 0 for their last 50.
bruce
May 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
Ah the Sultans…. maybe they can wake up the bats
Ship Heyward to AAA (Rob from SC)
May 30th, 2012
5:01 pm
I just want Heyward to get his confidence back
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
5:02 pm
Tough crowd.
No doubt Heyward was lackadaisical on that one play. He also had some good hustle play in that same game. The next day he almost beat out a rountine grounder to short. Probably went every bit as hard as Charlie Hustle Bryce Harper would have.
phil
May 30th, 2012
5:02 pm
thanks for chiming in, nolie….I’ve left it alone most of the year.
Lew
May 30th, 2012
5:02 pm
I certainly wouldn’t say he was always showing a lack of hustle, or even that it was all that pervasive in his play, but I do recall thinking when I saw that play, that it was pretty similar to the one that got Andruw yanked in the middle of an inning.
Powder Blue
May 30th, 2012
5:02 pm
Anyone else here listen to Lucero?
CrαZy
May 30th, 2012
5:03 pm
I don’t think much of Bill Shanks… I stopped reading his stuff a few years ago!!
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:05 pm
if that is your version of leaving it alone…………..
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
5:05 pm
Whoa, what happened to striking through Charlie Hustle?
McFanned it
RHR
May 30th, 2012
5:06 pm
Heard Chipper isn’t going on the road trip to DC and MIA. Is that normal for a player on the DL or is something else going on?
phil
May 30th, 2012
5:06 pm
maybe not totally….
Trader Jack
May 30th, 2012
5:07 pm
DISAPPOINTMENT – the feeling of dissatisfaction that follows the failure of expectations or hopes to manifest.
Kinda sums up Heyward to date
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:08 pm
yeah it was a bad, lazy play, that Harper took advantage of that prolly most players would not have. No excuses, he shoulda hustled more, hopefully he learned something by being shown up. In general I have never considered him a slacker personally
njbraves
May 30th, 2012
5:08 pm
phil….he made a lazy play, totally agree. To me, it doesn’t mean he’s lazy, just had a mental lapse and got caught. I think he will be a heck of a player one day, just appears that day won’t come as quickly as many expected.
phil
May 30th, 2012
5:09 pm
Reading between the lines on Chipper, he had a procedure for something akin to compartment syndrome in that lower leg. That’s bad business there.
He needs to stay off of the leg and take steps to avoid infection.
He can’t go on the road trip. He won’t be back in any 15 days either. Maybe a month?
ohhhhYEAH
May 30th, 2012
5:09 pm
and freakin fell down the night after? hes not great defensively, thats all there is to it
Lew
May 30th, 2012
5:10 pm
RHR – Not overly surprising given the nature of Chipper’s injury and the way his legs tend to swell while flying. As for whether or not it’s normal? I’d say it depends entiely on the injury and whatever they might be doing to rehab it.
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
Chipper is known in baseball for bouncing back quicker than expected most times, but I agree that there is a good chance he will not be ready when the DL stint is up
Shaun
May 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
ncscoots, so if a player isn’t putting up really good numbers by age 21-22, we should assume he’s never going to be all that good and, if people thought he was going to be good, he’s therefore a disappointment?
You know the type players that put up well-above-average seasons in their very early 20’s? It’s mostly just the all-time elite type players. I don’t think a player is necessarily a disappointment if he doesn’t end up being A-Rod, Griffey, etc.
McFann :Ô: :Ô:
May 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
njbraves Can we give Heyward a break already?? The kid is struggling…we know it, the Braves know it, and he knows it.
Look who’s talking…
(ITS)
Powder Blue
May 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
Let’s just hope the problem doesn’t spread to Chipper’s eyes.
phil
May 30th, 2012
5:12 pm
To be clear, the Heyward Harper play just caused me to instantly wonder….
Is this guy giving it his all or not? It ticked me off to see that when he hasn’t been hitting for 3 weeks.
In fairness, when Martin loafs out of the box now and then, I get ticked at him and probably shouldn’t. When Hinske loafs down the line, same thing.
That’s all I mean about Heyward. When you have those expectations following you around and this kind of scrutiny, don’t EVER get caught loafing, especially when you’re struggling. If you do loaf, an angry blogger or two might get ya!
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
5:12 pm
I think he will be a heck of a player one day, just appears that day won’t come as quickly as many expected.
Shaun is not one of those people though, oh no, he’s right on track with Shaun’s expectations.
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:13 pm
his feet went out from under him and he tore up divots. That is not all that uncommon, especially with a big guy like he is. trying to stop and turn creates a lot of friction. Overall he IS a pretty good defensive RFer. Just look at Bourn’s coupla plays to know that they all make mistakes at times
D.A. Nuggla
May 30th, 2012
5:14 pm
Mighty nice of DOB to NOT mention Constanza at all, and he got a hit and scored a run without which it would have still been 4-4. Several of us have been calling for “the robot” FG to call him up days ago. He comes up, helps the team, and gets no credit whatsoever! At least he did go 0-4 like both Hinske and McCann did, and leave 5 runners on base. He made a big difference last year when he came up(then the whole team went to sleep) and provided a spark last night, which was badly needed. GIVE THE POOR GUY SOME CREDIT WHEN IT IS DUE!!!!!!!!
TennesseePaul
May 30th, 2012
5:15 pm
where’s the one that said what Heyward is doing now would be a reasonable expectation? That one’s there, right?
Unfortunately no, scoots. All these quotes I’m posting where projectiongs/expectations/scouting reports for what the reasonable expectations where for Heyward going into the 2010 season. They all estimated he would do those things that year and going forward. I didn’t find in any of them a caveat stating he’d be a .230/.330/.395 guy for about 5-7 years in the majors, then hit his prime and post .280/.390/.460 numbers.
beachcomber
May 30th, 2012
5:15 pm
To put everything in perspective. Driving home this afternoon: Phils fan on MLB Radio says fire Manual, Dubee and Amaro. This from a fan whose team has won five straight divisions. All baseball towns are the same just change the name of the manager, pitching coach and GM or any pitcher or position player.
Good win last night out of our #4 starter, a follow up by Huddy tonight would great.
Oh and one last thing – NBC cancels Harry’s Law but Two Broke Girls lives on. Nothing to do with baseball – just had to vent.
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:15 pm
I think its fine to “get” on him about that play, a time or two. after that it’s just pilin’ on..
CMC
May 30th, 2012
5:15 pm
DOB,
Sultans of Swing is in my Top 5 all-time songs. Thanks for the lyrics.
ohhhhYEAH
May 30th, 2012
5:16 pm
i know what happened, im just saying it seems like its always one thing after another that just was a “freak” play and such. hes clumsy. and where i cant fault him for being lanky bc thats how the good Lord created him, but i can question the fact that he really isnt anything but an average defender
ohhhhYEAH
May 30th, 2012
5:16 pm
believe it or not, footwork IS a part of the game.
Lew
May 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
Credit where credit is due? OK.
He hit a single and scored a run on a wild pitch.
This was perhaps worthy of more than a sideline in the box score?
bruce
May 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
Dave, enjoyed the tunage, brought back some fine memories. first time reading the words…
Dire Straits: good name for a band, sad descriptor of a team’s status,
Sultans of Swing: great song title, great description for a group of power hitters.
Bat Masterson
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
Yay for Biff!!
Lew
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
Or a one line mention in the game summary saying “He hit a single and scored a run on a wild pitch.”
nolie
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
Oh and one last thing – NBC cancels Harry’s Law but Two Broke Girls lives on. Nothing to do with baseball – just had to vent…Beachcomber
amen brother, I will miss Harry and the guys. There were a number of my shows cancelled this year and a bunch of crap kept.
TennesseePaul
May 30th, 2012
5:18 pm
if people thought he was going to be good, he’s therefore a disappointment?
Maybe this will help you out with the answer you seek Payne…
Dis-ap-point-ment (disəˈpointmənt): The feeling of sadness or displeasure caused by the nonfulfillment of one’s hopes or expectations.
TennesseePaul
May 30th, 2012
5:20 pm
Scoots, And change all those “where” uses to “were”…