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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,551 comments Add your comment
cabravesfan
May 16th, 2012
4:21 pm
The Braves have 20 off days during the baseball season. Including the All-Star break. In 5+ months.
CrαZy
May 16th, 2012
4:22 pm
His OBP was over .400 also in AAA. .359 for the season between AA and AAA.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:23 pm
cricket,
My point was that even if I was able to set lineups better than Fredi, it would be a very slight advantage, and he’d be so much better than me at every other part of managing a baseball team that it’s a joke to think I could ever do a better job than him on the whole.
It’s easy to read numbers on a computer screen. Managing a ballclub is WAY more complicated than that.
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:23 pm
look at that lineup
BALLGAME!!!
cricket
May 16th, 2012
4:23 pm
Cole “old school” Hamels wants 7 yr 7 figure deal. braves are not going after him or anyone else.
my guess is payroll will remain same within 5 mil.
phil
May 16th, 2012
4:24 pm
Rickey Henderson….”today, I am the greatest”. Or something close to that.
Wrong, Rickey, as Nolan Ryan throws a no hitter the same night.
MFin04
May 16th, 2012
4:24 pm
Pretty sure that Mike Minor dominate last game!? Guy was striking out guys left and right, moving his pitches around well….and then…homers started to kill him. But, honestly, he did look really good for the most part, didn’t he?
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:24 pm
only Fredi would sit the hottest hitter in baseball when he could DH him a coupla days….
MFin04
May 16th, 2012
4:25 pm
“only Fredi would sit the hottest hitter in baseball when he could DH him a coupla days….”
Of course, no one in the world would ever DH Michael Bourn…that in itself is stupid as well.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:26 pm
Cole “old school” Hamels wants 7 yr 7 figure deal.
If he was really old school, he’d stay with his current team and take whatever salary they assigned to him. Reserve clause….as old school as it gets!
(not advocating for the reserve clause, just taking a potshot at “Hollywood” Hamels)
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
4:26 pm
cricket, I actually do think a lot of avid fans could fill out lineups and make pitching changes and things of that sort as well as most managers. Even if a fan doesn’t know the ins-and-outs of say, why you shouldn’t limit closer usage to save situations, he could still manage according to the conventions of all other managers and do as well. It’s the other stuff that would be difficult, the keeping everyone on the same page in the clubhouse, managing egos, dealing with the media and things of that sort.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:27 pm
Of course, no one in the world would ever DH Michael Bourn…that in itself is stupid as well.
I dunno, he’s a good looking guy I suppose. If I was a lady and had a few drinks in me, I could see it….
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:27 pm
who cares how good he looks giving up an average of a run and a half per inning the last three starts?
Lew
May 16th, 2012
4:27 pm
Won four of their last five, are in first place in the East and only one team (who we just won a series against) has a one game lead over us for the best record in the league and there’s griping about Bourn getting a day off against a LHer?
Kind of digging deep for stuff to complain about.
J-Man
May 16th, 2012
4:28 pm
I would take Cole Hamels on the team every time.
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:28 pm
what the hell is stupid about DHing Bourn to give his some rest and keep his bat. stupid effin’ statement
DS1
May 16th, 2012
4:28 pm
Let’s wait another five or ten years to start to compare Fredo with Bobby Cox, please?
nolie
You old fart, what do you know anyway?
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
Michael Bourn is the best defensive player on the team. Suggesting that you just play him on offense shows a lack of awareness of his defensive value. It would be different if there was some reason to believe that resting him defensively but not offensively would be helpful to him.
Matt Chernoff
May 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
Just in case no one’s seen this yet, pretty cool… also McCann doesn’t look that fat.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
Kind of digging deep for stuff to complain about.
Those are the best days. I’d much rather being complaining over something as meaningless as this than asking why the hell Derek Lowe is still in the starting rotation in late September 2011.
MFin04
May 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
nolie- Oh I agree…but he was dominant. I mean inside of the plate, outside of the plate, striking guys out right and left. If he can figure out what went wrong with the extra base hits…he could have a very nice game tonight.
I’ve never seen a guy look that good pitching, and give up that many runs.
Matt Chernoff
May 16th, 2012
4:29 pm
Just in case no one’s seen this yet, pretty cool… also McCann doesn’t look that fat.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=21480783&tcid=fb_ATL_21480783&c_id=atl
Lew
May 16th, 2012
4:30 pm
7 year, 7 figure deal? I’d be betting on an eight figure deal for him if he gets a contract of that length.
cricket
May 16th, 2012
4:30 pm
Shaun,
Honestly, I don’t think you think a lot of avid fans can fill out better lineups and making better pitching changes. I honestly think that you think (actually are sure) that YOU can fill out better lineups and making better pitching changes.
Me? I am not sure if even RC can do that job better than most managers
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:31 pm
Michael Bourn is the best defensive player on the team. Suggesting that you just play him on offense shows a lack of awareness of his defensive value. It would be different if there was some reason to believe that resting him defensively but not offensively would be helpful to him.
I feel like there is a reason to believe that resting him defensively but not offensively would be helpful to him. However, I feel that it would be more helpful to him to rest him on both offense and defense, which is why I’m not all torn up about him not being in the lineup tonight.
Lew
May 16th, 2012
4:32 pm
RC – Well, Lowe isn’t pitching this September and last September is well past. As I said – kind of digging deep for stuff to complain about. Pointing to Lowe is digging even deeper.
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:32 pm
Michael Bourn is the best defensive player on the team. Suggesting that you just play him on offense shows a lack of awareness of his defensive value.,,,Shaun
another idiot heard from. he sits tonight you lose his defense for one game anyway, at least by DHing him he gets rest and we keep his bat. what is so freaking hard to understand about that/ You are gonna lose his D for one day anyway. sigh
MFin04
May 16th, 2012
4:32 pm
“what the hell is stupid about DHing Bourn to give his some rest and keep his bat.”
Because, like Shaun said, his defensive value is incredible to this team. Not only that, but I don’t see how playing CF really is that strenuous. I mean it seems like running the bases the way he does would be more strenuous then making a few outs in CF every few innings.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:33 pm
cricket,
Do I get to see a percentage for each players energy level like I do on XBox, so I know who’s tired? If that’s the case, I’m ready to go!
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
4:34 pm
RC, good point. It probably would be someone helpful for him to rest just on defense. But not all that helpful. Much better to just rest him, if the team feels he needs some rest.
Gil in Mechanicsville
May 16th, 2012
4:34 pm
cricket You have to wonder if that guy has ever putted on a green that has been prepped for a a PGA match? Like putting on a hardwood floor, but more difficult….
So, is the plan to give everyone of the regulars a day off during the current stretch? Getting one day off in thirty does not really make a lot of difference unless a guy is hurt or tired. I can’t see the validity of DHing one of your best defensive players either.
I think it would do BMac a world of good to get a bit more rest too. Let him catch 5 out of 7 or let Rossi catch Bodacious. The problem the past several years has been Brian’s noticeable fall off after the All-Star game. Maybe a good time for him not to attend this season. Let Chipper take his spot. He is getting the extra days off to begin with.
Chuck Oliver
May 16th, 2012
4:34 pm
uuuummmmm… Matt we have a show to do!!!
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:34 pm
yes rest both ways is likely better, but by DHing him once when he is still hot you could wait to give him a complete day off until after he cools off a bit at bat
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:34 pm
Lew,
I was agreeing with you. People are going to complain about something…I’m just glad the team is doing well enough for the complaints to be over trivial issues, instead of the problems we’ve had in the past which were much more worrisome.
MFin04
May 16th, 2012
4:35 pm
nolie- How about we just play him the whole 162 and benefit from his offense and defense, and DH guys like Chipper and McCann.
Lew
May 16th, 2012
4:35 pm
The real reason that it would be stupid to DH Bourn is because if you do, then you lose a chance of DHing one of two polayers who could actually benefit from a switch to that role for a game or two – Chipper and McCann – two peffwect DH candidates.
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:35 pm
not rocket surgery
cricket
May 16th, 2012
4:35 pm
Lew
Sorry, I meant 8 figure and then didn’t correct it since no one noticed it till your smartpants came along
DS1
Sitting 2 regulars at a time – hit them with a strong bench..
DS1
May 16th, 2012
4:36 pm
Lew
Now you know I only complain about politics normally, but some of Fredi’s lineup decisions are true head scratchers. I don’t have a problem sitting Bourn for a game. But why do it on the same day you sit Chipper?
I dunno, makes no sense to me. Now if he was truly struggling? When a guy is this hot, why would you take him out. I don’t care if Sandy Frickin Koufax is pitching. He plays.
DAP
May 16th, 2012
4:37 pm
shaun There’s nothing wrong with sitting Bourn, folks. The only problem is Pastornicky leading off
thats my only issue with it. should be prado, heyward at the top with fransisco, rev at 7 and 8.
Joe in SoCal
May 16th, 2012
4:37 pm
I’m worried about tonite..not because of the lineup..but because that was the longest post I’ve ever seen by Fish Bisch…disconcerting!
bravesgrl4life
May 16th, 2012
4:37 pm
Okay, so maybe yeah, he is the best defensive player on the team. But if you don’t give him a rest once in a blue moon, that defense my let you down. Go work your job for 20 straight days or only one day off here and there and see how well you are doing it. Especially when your job has you at work until late at night and working outside in the weather.
SMH
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
4:37 pm
nolie, but does he get significantly more rest if he’s still having to hit? I think offense is much more taxing, perhaps more mentally than physically but maybe physically as well, than defense.
CrαZy
May 16th, 2012
4:37 pm
The way bourn is hitting he does just as much running on the bases as he does in the OF. So I don’t see how DH’ing him really does that much good if the point in not playing is rest!!
MFin04
May 16th, 2012
4:37 pm
DS1 – He also won’t sit Uggla because he is scared to tell him.
And I don’t think he was joking when he said it either.
CrαZy
May 16th, 2012
4:38 pm
I’m not worried about tonight any more than the other 162 games a year!!
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:39 pm
DS1,
I think Bourn is sitting today because they wanted to do it in the next few days, and sitting him against Buehrle is likely the toughest matchup for him personally, so that’s why it was scheduled today.
I think that Chipper isn’t being set because it was on the schedule, but because the knee is bothering him and playing him tonight could cause an injury, and it’s too dangerous to simply put off for another day.
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
4:39 pm
bravesgrl4life, most of the people arguing that Bourn is the best defensive player on the team are also arguing that it’s fine to give him a day off now instead of DHing him later. So we’re with you on this.
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:39 pm
both of whom have had much more rest than Bourn and should be in less need of rest Chipper is off again today and mac is off every 5 games or so. DHing Bourn once would hardly ruin either of the other two. I am only saying this approach only because he has been so scorching, other wise it wouldn’t make any difference at all
cricket
May 16th, 2012
4:39 pm
this discussion will be moot once NL adopts DH…
DS1
May 16th, 2012
4:39 pm
I personally don’t have a problem playing Bourn 162 games this year. Or at least wait till he cools off a bit. Or the world comes to and end. Yea, I’d give him that day off.
DAP
May 16th, 2012
4:40 pm
nolie what the hell is stupid about DHing Bourn to give his some rest and keep his bat. stupid effin’ statement
because one of his best assests is his defense. i agree, it wouild be silly to DH michael bourn. if hes in the game, you want him in the field.
DAP
May 16th, 2012
4:40 pm
“assests”? dont ask me what that is.
Joe in SoCal
May 16th, 2012
4:40 pm
As far as the lineup goes…I believe this is the perfect example of the Coxian Theory of Baseball..a classic “throw away” game. Bobby was famous for this sort of thing and it has obviously been passed down the FG. Take one game every 20 or so and pull two regular starters then juggle the lineup and VOILA!..instant loss.
Gil in Mechanicsville
May 16th, 2012
4:41 pm
McCann doesn’t look that fat.
No, but he still cannot run. Tight hamstrings most likely, anyone notice the short choppy strides he was taking when running from 2nd to 3rd last night? He is who he is, get over it…. It is why he is a power guy and why he has been in the major leagues for the past 7 or 8 years (can’t remember how long exactly)
Lew
May 16th, 2012
4:41 pm
DS1 – Well, I can’t do anything about dumb managerial decisions, but DHing Bourn makes little sense. Maybe a day off will do him some good – he did bang into the wall a couple times in recent days – and if you have to sit him, doing so aginst a LHer makes at least a bit of sense.
As to giving him the same day off as Chipper – well, seems that twhen players have days off, there are usuqally two sitting like Chipper and Mac. Apparently you can’t teach the proverbial Old Dog new tricks. What we need is a Manager Whisperer. Maybe that’s what some idiot meant by a Managar.
cabravesfan
May 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
I personally don’t have a problem playing Bourn 162 games this year.
He may have a problem with it. Even last year, he didn’t play in every game.
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
4:42 pm
this discussion will be moot once NL adopts DH…
And the world will be a happier place when we get to watch major league hitters at 9 spots instead of 8 hitters and one non-hitter.
bostonbravo
May 16th, 2012
4:43 pm
seems like a slow news day…might as well fire Fredi..
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:44 pm
yes Shaun, they use the DH to rest guys regularly. not as good as a complete day off, but i am only suggesting it cause he is so hot. normally I would agree with what you and MF are saying. anyway it makes no difference now since Fredi has already put his plan in action
gotta go to dinner. see y’all later. maybe I’ll be less grouchy when I get back
TheOnlyBravesFan
May 16th, 2012
4:44 pm
Braves lineup vs. Marlins: Pastornicky 6, Prado 7, Freeman 3, Uggla 4, McCann 2, Diaz 9, Heyward 8, Francisco 5, Minor
I love this lineup. PASTORNICKY ON TOP!!! Go get ‘em kid. Show the haters whatcha got. 3-5, with a double, rbi, 2 runs scored, and a stolen base. Heyward in center, gonna be interesting. Let’s go Braves!!!
Bat Masterson
May 16th, 2012
4:44 pm
Where is ol’ “Looseing Managar” these days? Probably changed his name and became a Pollyanna.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:45 pm
And the world will be a happier place when we get to watch major league hitters at 9 spots instead of 8 hitters and one non-hitter.
Totally disagree. I realize that it’s objectively “better” with a DH, but I simply don’t care. The game is about entertainment, and I’m entertained by seeing pitchers hit, quality of the lineup be damned.
nolie
May 16th, 2012
4:45 pm
actually Joe, Bobby won a pretty fair share of those games regardless of the lineup…
DAP
May 16th, 2012
4:45 pm
personally, i think the 3 players who should DH when we have a 3 game interleague series are mccann (cause he can really hit and needs a break from catching) chipper (because he can really hit and needs the chance to not play the field) and hinske (because he is a pretty good hitter but not to good at defense, anywhere)
J-Man
May 16th, 2012
4:46 pm
DH is not BASEBALL. Plain and Simple. In the American all you have to do is just sit down and let your lineup play. Wheres the strategy wheres the game within the game. The DH should be abolished.
DAP
May 16th, 2012
4:46 pm
nolie I am only saying this approach only because he has been so scorching, other wise it wouldn’t make any difference at all
thats a good point…normally his defense is by far the best thing you get from him, but right now he is killing the ball too.
Lew
May 16th, 2012
4:47 pm
You want better hitters in the ninth spot and no DH? Teach the %%$$##$#^&**ing pitchers how to hit.
DAP
May 16th, 2012
4:47 pm
shaun And the world will be a happier place when we get to watch major league hitters at 9 spots instead of 8 hitters and one non-hitter.
ew. forget that. i prefer real baseball, where all 9 guys are real baseball players.
Gil in Mechanicsville
May 16th, 2012
4:47 pm
And the world will be a happier place when we get to watch major league hitters at 9 spots instead of 8 hitters and one non-hitter.
And more 4 and 5 hour long baseball games. eck!!!
DS1
May 16th, 2012
4:48 pm
cab
But he’s just a dang kid. Some guys hate coming out of the lineup.
If I’d gotten 3 hits last night and then saw I wasn’t in the lineup tonight, I’d be ticked. And if Bourn is NOT ticked at being sat, then he’s not the guy I was hoping he was.
Does that make sense?
So if we lose tonight, I promise to shut up about it.
Seriously though, I don’t have a problem resting a guy. But tonight doesn’t appear to me to be the optimum time to do so.
Joe in SoCal
But Fredi’s done the 2 subs in one game about 10-15 games this year, I’d bet. (not counting Wilson for Pastonicky)
J-Man
May 16th, 2012
4:48 pm
DH is not BASEBALL. Plain and Simple. In the American League all you have to do is just sit down and let your lineup play. Wheres the strategy wheres the game within the game. The DH should be abolished
Sopheee
May 16th, 2012
4:48 pm
Fire the DH.
DS1
May 16th, 2012
4:49 pm
And folks, it’s only May 16th. It’s not even July yet…….
Matt Chernoff
May 16th, 2012
4:49 pm
Jack Wilson just can’t come into replace REV late in the game if the Bravos are tied/down… he sure ain’t no “lead-off’ hitter
phil
May 16th, 2012
4:49 pm
Some people just have to have something to complain about….
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:49 pm
I actually get where Shaun is coming from with the DH arguement…it does make for better played baseball.
That being said, I don’t care if it’s better. I want to see pitchers hit, because that’s what I enjoy watching.
ncscoots
May 16th, 2012
4:50 pm
Instead of the normal lineup with seven players with an above-average OPS, tonight we are running one out there with six! Oh no!
Folks still remember when sitting one guy, let alone two, was enough to put the lineup into Bomb Squad mode. Takes a while for people to get over that, LOL. But lineup depth is a beautiful thing, ain’t it?.
Take one game every 20 or so and pull two regular starters then juggle the lineup and VOILA!..instant loss.
He’s been resting two starters a game with some regularity. Nothing new there, and team is in first place. For a reason, see the above.
Joe in SoCal
May 16th, 2012
4:50 pm
nolie…I know..and I understand why he needed to do it..guys gotta recharge sometimes..just seemed like the timing sometimes was off. I always felt like you needed to make a statement against your division but its a long season and I’m sure if Shaun was here he would say something about the mean and how it averages out in the long term.
RC
May 16th, 2012
4:50 pm
Wilson will PH for the pitcher, then remain in the game while the pitcher bats in Pastornicky’s spot (which if Wilson reached, will be lower in the order at that point).
Hillbilly
May 16th, 2012
4:51 pm
Where is ol’ “Looseing Managar” these days? Probably changed his name and became a Pollyanna.
Sonny Clu… I mean, Journalist Ji…, uhhhh, Looseing Managar is probably over on Schultz or Bradley’s blog setting the hook and reeling in another sucker or two. That’s my theory anyway.
cricket
May 16th, 2012
4:51 pm
woo hoo..got at least few bloggers off FG’s as* and onto DH
Matt Chernoff
May 16th, 2012
4:52 pm
uuuummmmm… Matt we have a show to do!!!
Ermm, I’ll be right there.
ncscoots
May 16th, 2012
4:54 pm
That being said, I don’t care if it’s better. I want to see pitchers hit, because that’s what I enjoy watching.
Yeah, what RC said. Ditto.
IABrave
May 16th, 2012
4:54 pm
MFin04
I agree giving Bourn the day off completely is better then just DHing but having him DH a game coming up would help save his legs as well. Although being in the outfield doesn’t sound like it is strenuous but it does take a toll on your legs. Ask Chipper or even Prado now how their legs feel when playing in the OF. It just drains your legs. I wouldn’t be surprised if he does still DH a game coming up.
J-Man
May 16th, 2012
4:54 pm
Well Fredi would make a better AL Manager since he would have less chances to screw up the game.
raleighbravefan
May 16th, 2012
4:55 pm
cricket @4:39 – That will truly be a sad day….but I have no doubt that Selig and his band of idiots will get it done before he steps down.
BTW, anyone who complains about the length of the game needs to compare AL vs NL.
Joe in SoCal
May 16th, 2012
4:56 pm
DS-1, Fredi’s got big shoes to fill and fast!! especially after the end to last yr! No Cox team ever collapsed until they actually made it there!
ATLcracker
May 16th, 2012
4:56 pm
I thought the blog agreed spring training 2011 that when (not if) Simmons passed Pastornicky that Pastornicky would be moved to centerfield where his speed would come in to play more often and that he would bat lead off if he improved his OBP. Wasn’t that the plan?
raleighbravefan
May 16th, 2012
4:57 pm
J-Man (and all the other couch managers) – We are in first place, and Fredi’s doing a darn good job this year, IMO. Do you just lay awake nights trying to think of something to complain about?
Adam Carolla
May 16th, 2012
4:57 pm
Doesn’t matter, cuz “In Fifty Years We’ll All Be Chicks”
Mr Webster
May 16th, 2012
4:57 pm
nolie
not rocket surgery
LOLOLOLOLOL
Murph
May 16th, 2012
4:58 pm
He’s been resting two starters a game with some regularity. Nothing new there, and team is in first place. For a reason, see the above.
Because they are winning the other games where he doesn’t rest multiple starters?
TheOnlyBravesFan
May 16th, 2012
4:59 pm
I don’t quite understand the sitting of Bourn tonight, the guy’s red hot and in the middle of a streak. Wait til one of the Tampa games to do that, sit him, chipper, and mac back to back to back. While his value is in his glove, our outfield is adequate with Heyward in center. We need to keep Bourny’s bat glowing red.
raleighbravefan
May 16th, 2012
4:59 pm
ATLcracker – I don’t know about “the plan”, but I know there is constantly blog speculation about moving players to a new and unfamiliar position.
Shaun
May 16th, 2012
5:02 pm
The only statement that a team needs to make is finishing with enough wins to make the playoffs, preferably with enough to avoid the one-gamer. Can we please stop discussing making statements against certain teams? The notion is just ridiculous.
raleighbravefan
May 16th, 2012
5:02 pm
Remember how tired everyone looked in September? Seems to me we are operating on a pretty sound plan.
DS1
May 16th, 2012
5:02 pm
Bat
Maybe the Loosing Managar is a Pre-Madonna………..
raleighbravefan
May 16th, 2012
5:03 pm
Shaun – But it’s so much fun to dance on the graves of the teams we hate!
ncscoots
May 16th, 2012
5:03 pm
I actually do think a lot of avid fans could fill out lineups and make pitching changes and things of that sort as well as most managers.
Bubba, please. It’s not making out the lineup card that’s tough, it’s having the sense of when it’s working or not and what changes will be effective or not and knowing when to change up or not. And that’s the easy part.
Knowing when to get pitchers up and ready without doing it unecessarily and doing it in time to have the right pitcher ready at the right time, in the heat of battle, with a million undetermined variables yet to play out? That’s the hard part, and pretty much beyond most “fans”.
Everything looks easy from the Barca-Lounger, bro. It looks a litle different at field-level from the dugout.