4:55 pm May 5, 2012, by David O'Brien
May 6th, 20129:32 pm
May 6th, 20129:33 pm
Chatt – Let you know after 2 years how Harper is……
anyone else get that feeling
we might need to be pulling
for fillys to win tonight?
Eek, Werth hurt his wrist. Looked painful.
man looks like that hurt…
May 6th, 20129:34 pm
Looks like Werth may have broken something on that play.
May 6th, 20129:35 pm
Yeah, it looked like it went backwards and snapped.
May 6th, 20129:36 pm
Big blow if Werth is out?
May 6th, 20129:37 pm
This is one time I’ll actually root for the Phillies.
May 6th, 20129:38 pm
“I don’t think Harper is that great. ESPN has over rated him. He’s only been in the bigs for a few games. Can’t base everything on a few games.”
That’s not the whole story.
I’m not a football scout. Stafford had a lot of buzz around him, but he was a QB at a RB school.
Anyhow, Stafford makes into his first game, and for whatever reason I was watching. His first pass made me sit up. Oh wow, THAT is what they are talking about. It was just a pass, what’s the big deal? It was a pro pass. It had the look, the release, the zip, the placement, the tight spiral. It had something to it that other passers at his level did not have. Fast forward and he turned into a #1 pick and in a reasonable amount of time, plus injury is part of the core that turned a historically bad franchise around.
That is where the hype comes from. Kerry Wood, Strassberg, Moses Malone, Kobe Bryant and LeBrick all also had this early magic about them.
Kerry Wood got injured. Others have faded out, Brien Taylor got into a bar fight. But, the hype does not come from ESPN and it does not come from out of nowhere.
His first hit was a double that hit the wall before MVP candidate Matt Kemp could even fully turn around. If you actually watch him, and not just read or hear the hype, I think it’s pretty hard to ignore it and call it overrated. Is Success guaranteed? No, never. Does he have it and is it worth of hype? To this point, yes.
May 6th, 20129:40 pm
I saw the conversation about players salaries from years ago, interesting stuff. I read a article in the Wall Street Journal a while back about that in all four major sports. Babe Ruth’s highest salary would be about $1mm in today’s dollars.
They used at least ten times the average players salary to determine the twenty five highest paid players of all time.
Ty Cobb was number three
Babe Ruth was number ten
Alex Rodriguez was number eleven.
Number one was Joe Sakic, hockey. 14.56
May 6th, 20129:44 pm
don sutton’s poodle perm, Dreifort could have thrown outside and you’re right Galarraga didn’t have to stand so close to the plate.
May 6th, 20129:45 pm
So this year Ruth would be getting 35.2mm
May 6th, 20129:46 pm
Count – Could say possible on Harper? I’ll wait until after next year, before I say some thing. ESPN likes to make more of a deal, out of every thing.
don sutton's poodle perm
May 6th, 20129:48 pm
Frenchy was a football player (lacking baseball fundamentals) who converted to baseball and was rushed to the big leagues and could not cope or adjust for a while. Harper is a baseball player with the tools in a rapid steady state of development. Frenchy biggest problem was being a fine athlete trying to learn a complicated game in a hurry and he got exposed.
That’s really a false narrative. Frenchy played baseball the whole time he was growing up. He played on all of the same teams McCann and Heyward played on. He wasn’t some numbnuts football player they handed a bat to when he was 17. For whatever reason, he just had flawed hitting mechanics that have affected his ability to develop a proper approach at the plate and that have made his performance sporadic
May 6th, 20129:49 pm
Cobb couldn’t make enough money.
May 6th, 20129:55 pm
Narrative is ok. Like many football players he played baseball in high school. It was the off season sport.
He WAS a football player in high school and got a scholarship (to Auburn?). He just got wise at the last minute and chose baseball.
“For whatever reason, he just had flawed hitting mechanics”
That reason is that the minors, and ultimately majors is the first time he seriously had to rely on mechanics more than raw athleticism. His hard head only compounded those issues.
At that age he did not have to much care about baseball to be ok at it.
Stafford turned out to be a better pro QB than a College one.
It happens that way, I thought he would be another Jeff George given the disappointments at UGA, but I was wrong.
David Greene and Aaron Murray are better Dawgs than Stafford could ever hope to be.
But Stafford might get a super bowl ring or two for a city dying to reestablish football tradition that got lost in the ’50’s. They are on the right track in Detroit now.
May 6th, 20129:57 pm
“Count – Could say possible on Harper?”
Harper absolutely could flame out. But for his age, 19. The hype is deserved.
“ESPN likes to make more of a deal, out of every thing.”
They put LeBrick on TV in high school. They make money pimping LeBrick, Harper and sports center.
May 6th, 20129:58 pm
May 6th, 20129:59 pm
Stafford could have easily have been a Jeff George.
Rocket arm and no brain or heart.
count – it was clemson…
May 6th, 201210:00 pm
Kind of hard to lay Ga’s problems off on Stafford when Willie Martinez’s defenses pretty much sucked.
May 6th, 201210:01 pm
Night all. Here’s to another series win in Chi. Another sweep to much to ask? Once can hope! If we can get by Dempster, I think we can do it.
Kerry Wood and Mark Prior–now those are big disappointments of the past.
One guy I classify as a bust and total underachieer is Josh Beckett, here is a guy with all the hype and has never had 2 good seasons in a row.
Probably the biggest bust in the 21st century was Dontrell Willis, three good yrs and then nothing.
May 6th, 201210:03 pm
Would have loved to have seen the Dawgs play USC in Staffords sophomore year. You know, the year Ga ended up #2
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
May 6th, 201210:05 pm
There’s nothing quit like a good old fashioned butt kicking to boost the confidence level. Boy did our Braves hand the Rockies theirs in a hand basket.
Willie Martinez’ defenses were bad, but when Stafford was in there, there was always this kind of errie feeling that some how some way this guy was going to make a stupid mistake in a crucial time and in big games it did happen.
Outside of that big drive vs Florida the yr before he left, little or nothing really memrable in clutch time.
He could not even get the Dawgs to the SEC championship game. At least Greene, D.J. Shockley and Murray got us that far with Greene and D.J. winning an SEC confrence.
I consider Stafford a UGA disappointment.
May 6th, 201210:06 pm
Count, you’re just wrong. He was the best baseball player on a team that won two straight state championships in baseball, and that was ranked in the top 10 in the country.
David Green had Brian Van Gorder going for him
Murray has Todd Grantham
May 6th, 201210:07 pm
May 6th, 2012
Stafford could have easily have been a Jeff George.
Rocket arm and no brain or heart.”
I saw Jeff George in an airport once.
I saw him. He saw me seeing him. But he did not look comfortable with being recognized.
He had the Corvette. The money. The girlfriend/wife had enhanced boobs, but… I got the distinct feeling that he is wary in public. Possibly perceived as being a bust with a lot of iffy negative news around him. Probably not a lot of “Jeff George fans” out there running around.
I don’t think that bothers people when they are young, living in the moment with an F the world attitude. I think it hits you later. When I saw him it was a couple of years after his final playing days.
May 6th, 201210:08 pm
All, have a good one! Talk tomorrow after the game. Peace my friends……”Go!!!!!Braves!!!!! Good talking, and funny jokes…..
May 6th, 201210:09 pm
“Rocket arm and no brain or heart.”
That was the Jeff George complaint and it’s what people thought when they saw Stafford get paid and do kegstands and hang out on boats with stripper types.
I thought he had heart at Georgia, but I always thought people were suspicious that he was coasting on talent a little bit at times.
May 6th, 201210:11 pm
Looks like an old friend Illya Kovalchuck is one game away from being in an Eastern Confrence final for those old Thrashers fans who still care.
He got an assist tonight–good for him.
I loved watching old number 17.
May 6th, 201210:12 pm
. . . . .
May 6th, 201210:14 pm
The capacity to say nothing at all. Never thought I had that However briefly
I won’t say that Stafford did not have heart, but to me he was an underachiever from what was expected.
Maybe that is not fair, but as a Dog, I will take Aaron Murray as my QB anyday. He was so much better then Stafford at a similar junction.
Stafford stunk his first yr. Showed moments the next two but it was not enough.
May 6th, 201210:15 pm
Mark Richt has allowed more talent to underachieve than any football coach in recent memory. The man is vastly overrated.
May 6th, 201210:17 pm
Yeah well, I was disappointed in CMR while Stafford was there. CMR wasted Staffords career and AJ Greens if you ask me, because he was a stubborn ass about his staff.
May 6th, 201210:18 pm
Where are the Redskins fans whining about their 4th round draft pick? Since we’re in NFL QB mode?
May 6th, 201210:19 pm
Oh yeah CMR really handled Staffords first year well. Remember Joe the third
May 6th, 201210:20 pm
DOWN ON THE FARM
G-Men retain lead in the IL South with a 6-2 victory over CHARLOTTE.
RHSP JAIR JURRJENS [W 1-0, 1.80 ERA] has an excellent 8.0 IP, 5 H, 2 R/ER, 1 BB, 6 SO.
RHRP CORY GEARRIN [0.57 ERA] 1.0 IP, 1 H, zeros, 1 SO.
Lead-off LF ‘George’ CONSTANZA [.321 BA] 1-3, 1 R, 1 BB.
RF STEF GARTRELL [.212 BA] 1-4, 1 R, 1 RBI , 1 SO.
DH ERNESTO MEJIA [.255 BA] 2-3, 2 R, 1 2B , 1 HR , 2 RBI , 1 BB.
1B CHRISTIAN MARRERO 1-2, 1 R, 1 RBI , 2 BB, 1 SB .
2B JOSH WILSON [.275 BA] 1-4, 1 2B , 1 SB .
“He graduated from Parkview High School in Lilburn, Georgia in 2002. He lettered in both baseball and football. He led Parkview to the Georgia AAAA high school football championships in 2000 and 2001 as a wide receiver and defensive back. Francoeur was offered a scholarship to play wide receiver at Clemson University, before turning that down and getting drafted in the first round. He also led Parkview to two state titles in baseball, in 2001 and 2002.”
From my experience though, football players just played baseball since they were already in the brotherhood and the coaching was generally pretty subpar for baseball, more so than football. Usually the coaches just stuffed balls into the JUGS and put the best athletes on the field.
The legend around Francoer has generally been about football and the scholarship offer.
Clearly, he was a top athlete, regardless.
May 6th, 201210:21 pm
Hate that pick til hell freezes over, that kid will be a starter someday!
May 6th, 201210:24 pm
For Jurrjens only 3 K’s in 8 innings is very alarming despite giving up not many runs. He should be able to strike out more if he wants to be succesful in the MLB level.
Steve from OH
May 6th, 201210:28 pm
For Jurrjens only 3 K’s in 8 innings is very alarming despite giving up not many runs.
I was thinking the same thing. The stuff just hasn’t been there in these last months.
May 6th, 201210:29 pm
I’ve done that to my wrist playing basketball. As I was shooting the all a kid jumped in front of me and I landed on my hand snapping my wrist back. Ouch that shi* hurt.
May 6th, 201210:30 pm
Werth – ligament? Same one he injured earlier in his career?
Ted Williams would be getting 36.6mm
Pretty good deal on Teddy BallGame
May 6th, 201210:32 pm
Looking good for being 1/2 a game out of the best record in the NL…
May 6th, 201210:33 pm
The history here has to be concerning, too. Werth’s career was temporarily derailed and nearly ended back in 2005-06 due to a left wrist injury and ensuing surgery. He then resurfaced with the Phillies in 2007 and eventually became an All-Star.
If Werth’s injury is serious — and it looks like that’s a decent possibility — the Nationals would be starving for outfield help. They don’t exactly have another Bryce Harper to call up. Xavier Nady replaced Werth in right field while Rick Ankiel and Roger Bernadina are the center field options.
May 6th, 201210:35 pm
sanches warming up for the phillies…so the nats have a chance
May 6th, 201210:36 pm
love watching the superstar kid muff one…at least he looks upset about it
May 6th, 201210:37 pm
Good call about Ted, Bat!
May 6th, 201210:39 pm
March 6th, 2012
It would not surprise me if the Orioles had the best record in baseball by the 2nd week of May…
May 6th, 201210:42 pm
Great article by Tracy Ringolsby on Chipper…
May 6th, 201210:47 pm
The Bandits lose a heartbreaker in the 12th 3-4 to old buddy TIM GUSTAFSON.
RHSP MYCAL JONES [3.00 ERA] 6.0 IP, 10 H, 1 HR, 2 R/ER, 0 BB, 2 SO. MYC started off in 2009 as a SS. Converted to the outfield, he’s been failing with the stick this season. The BRAVES let him have a start, and he responds with a great outing. He allows 10 hits over six, but outside of the gopher-ball scatters them so well, he limits the runs to the two which crossed the plate on the mistake pitch. i think he did excellently for a first start.
RHRP BILLY BULLOCK [1.93 ERA] 1.2 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 2 SO.
RHRP CORY RASMUS [1.23 ERA] 1.1 IP, 2 H, zeros, 1 BB, 2 SO.
RHRP MARK LAMM [3.14 ERA] 2.0 IP, pristine. He regains his equilibrium after two bad outings in a row.
RHRP ‘Aussie ANDY’ RUSSELL [L 2-1, 2.76 ERA] 1.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 SO. gets stuck with the loss on an unearned run in the 12th.
CF/RF KEENAN WILEY [.385 BA] 3-4, 2 R, 1 HR , 2 RBI , 1 BB, 1 SB , 1 CS . KEENAN breaking bad at the plate lately.
SS AL SIMMONS [.320 BA] 1-4, 2 BB, 1 SO.
1B IAN GAC [.239 BA] 2-4, 1 R, 1 2B , 1 BB, 1 SO, 1 CS , 1 E [3, throwing]. The goat’s horn’s stop here.
3B JOE LEONARD [.268 BA] 2-5, 1 2B , 1 SO.
LF/RF ADAM MILLIGAN [.185 BA] 1-5, 3 SO. Not a good year to date.
CF ZEKE SPRUILL [.200 BA] 1-1, 1 RBI . ZEKE in center. MYC on the bump! Wow!
May 6th, 201210:51 pm
Borrowed from SB –
May 6th, 201210:52 pm
count_schemula @ 9:38 pm: Good stuff, sir, and well written.
Enter your comments here
May 6th, 201210:55 pm
May 6th, 201210:57 pm
awful lot of HS kids play two or three sports. the thing about baseball is that athleticism means less than it does in football and basketball. Being a great athlete is no guarantee that you will ever hit enough to be an impact player at higher pro levels.
Most players are influenced more by football which is the “important” sport in HS and also usually can thus afford the better coaches and more emphasis.
Francouer has a football mentality and though he was a good HS baseball player it was mostly about raw athleticism, not knowledge and natural instinct.
There have been literally thousands of great athletes who never amounted to a hill of beans in baseball. In fact those type of players are one of the bigger reason that so many high draft choices are failures. They are so enticing with their tools that they are almost always ranked above lesser athletes who actually have a good idea how to hit. ‘It’s not necessarily a matter or intelligence or personality or work habits either.
One young Brave i was real familiar with was George Lombard. Exceptional athlete, hard worker, highly intelligent and a great guy. Never could learn to hit enuff. Happens all the time.
Frenchy is not one of the failures. Other than OBP he is actually a pretty decent player and 20 years ago would have fit in much better with the then current philosophies
May 6th, 201211:14 pm
Nice, nolie. Thanks
My grandfather was a minor league or one of those indy league managers back in the day . . . .
May 6th, 201211:15 pm
nolie, good points.
Frenchy is ok, I don’t dislike him or think he’s a failure.
However, for someone in his position, he had NEVER KNOWN failure. Forget about hitting the curveball or getting junked on an 0-2 pitch for a swinging strikeout, Frenchy’s biggest problem was probably dealing with the prospect of failure for the first time in his life and not being able to rely on pure athleticism to get through it.
I think that is what we saw here in Atlanta. He did not seem like he was willing to work with the coaches and break it down and rebuild it. He just thought his raw talent would overcome. The game would come back to him, he would not have to go to the game. I did not watch him much in NY or KC, but I assume, during some dark moment, he started listening a little more and starting the actual process of working at it.
They say hitting good pitching is the hardest thing in all sport.
May 6th, 201211:18 pm
1920s – I think it was like what “Doc” was talking about when they picked him up on the way back to Iowa
May 6th, 201211:19 pm
back in his day there were more minots too. most teams had D,C,B,A,AA and AAA. several with more than one tean at a level. Rich clubs like the dodgers or Giants might have 20 minor league affiliates
May 6th, 201211:26 pm
May 6th, 201211:27 pm
Sunday night is tough. She get’s Desperate Housewives, Celebrity Apprentice, this Brothers and Sisters dramafest, and I get you guys on my MacBook Air… lol.
May 6th, 201211:28 pm
I think dealing with failure for the first time can be a problem for a lot of very hyped prospects. I think that was part of Heywards trouble so far, however I’m not so sure that most don’t try, even if they have great work habits and a willing attitude it is no guarantee that they will ever become stars.
coaching is funny in baseball especially in the higher levels and with players who shine in the minors and are considered important prospects. The attitude is most often to not mess with them much at all ifthey are doing pretty well, and Frenchy did well enuff in the minors to warrant that attitude by him and the team.
In the majors, you can’t make a plat change his approach, it is his career at that point. For the most part a player is not gonna be all that open to change until he really gets desperate. even then when the chips are down there is a great impetus to fall back into the old comfortable approach.
Ball players are like every body else, they have comfort ranges too.
I don’t think we can have any real idea of what Frenchy was willing or unwilling to do. It is very hard to turn a dedicated hacker into an OBP guy
May 6th, 201211:30 pm
I get this love of baseball from someone who loved it deeply!
May 6th, 201211:32 pm
thats a good thang MIB
nolie – didn’t chipper say frenchies main problem wasn’t that he didn’t listen but rather he listened to everybody?
May 6th, 201211:33 pm
I love ya nolie! Take care of yourself!!
May 6th, 201211:35 pm
coulda been tiger, that is an easy trap to fall into. I don’t know the kid but I never got the impression that Frenchy was all that bright either
You’ve said a couple of times that the scouts mostly rated Pastornicky as an average SS. Were these evaluations made prior to the season and have they been updated like after 30 days? Are the scouts sticking with the average rating or has it changed? And one last question, are their two categories for defense 1). fielding ? 2) throwing? and then a separate offensive category?
May 6th, 201211:40 pm
Blauser struck me as an average SS. Pastornicky seems a little less than average on even that low bar.
May 6th, 201211:53 pm
Pastornicky does not seem to have the arm to play top level defense. Neither in arm strength or accuracy. He made two throws in the late innings that were miracle saves by Freeman. The game could very well have changed if Freddie doesn’t make those two saves for outs.
May 6th, 201211:54 pm
KL scouting reports don’t tend to change all that much over short periods of time. Production will vary of course and that can be taken into consideration, but since actual scouting reports are about tool snd projection for the most part, and those things can take quite a while to develop there are long periods where things stay about the same as a kid comes us. of course there are other evaluations going on too especially as a kid gets high enough in the system for stats to start to become more reliable
what I meant was that his speed was timed and his arm was timed and his instincts were analyzed.back about draft time and yearly reviews were taken. I know his defense ans attitude and intangibles were pretty highly thought of when he was drafted, but nothing was considered exceptional.the tools were all average to a bit above, speed was good, range was average , etc.
of course players do not always continue to advance at what they are projected to do, its as much an art as a science as all the first round failures pretty much show.
The reports that I saw about Tyler as he advanced stayed pretty much the same, though he does not throw as well as was anticipated based on his work as a pitcher and timings in the field.
I do think that the evaluations might have been influenced a bit by his intangibles and his history of growing up in a baseball family and his penchant for hustling.
As I think I said B4 he is not as good defensively as I, and most others, thought he would be, mostly a bit less range than expected and more throwing trouble than he should have, but he is still an adequate SS who I think gets hurt in comparisons against our last two here and also against Simmons under him who is obviously better in most areas
May 6th, 201211:55 pm
DOB stuck in Denver trying to get th chicago…that sucks
May 6th, 201211:57 pm
If they slipped Simmons to AAA fairly soon and even brought him up in Sept for the playoffs I would not be surprised.
Pastornicky is spunky and could probably be an ok hitter and steal a few bases, but, Simmons’ glove and arm will win the day at some point, even if he brings a lighter stick.
Pastor could end up a 2b conversion at some point. He’d have to get into the 20+ SB territory because he probably does not have enough power to play a modern 2b.
May 6th, 201211:58 pm
when its sleepy time down south….
he would likely make a much better second baseman than SS as I think others here have said, course we got uggla so that is pretty unlikely. prolly hang around as one of a myriad of back ups playing several positions i would think
May 7th, 201212:00 am
If Tyler continues to hit ok I think Simmons goes to the AFL this fall and gets a shot in the spring
May 7th, 201212:01 am
May 7th, 201212:02 am
Washington Post is reporting broken wrist for Werth. Could be out up to 6 weeks.
May 7th, 201212:14 am
Nolie – the first day I saw Pastornicky and on the first play I saw him make, I knew he was not the answer for the Braves this year. He went about 3 steps into the hole to get a medium grounder. No chance of getting through or the 3B getting to it. Pastornicky took a straight line to the ball, backhanded it while planting his right foot and put every single ounce of arm he had into the throw. The throw bounced about on the first base line but was too far off target for Freddie to hold the bag. I’d seen AGon make that play 50 times last season by taking a circular route, picking the ball on the move (and then moving towards first) and making an accurate throw while moving but off his back foot.
One was a MLB play and the other wasn’t. I pretty much realize Pastornicky will play while he is up here but I don’t think it will be him after the All Star break.
May 7th, 201212:15 am
I think he’ll play all season, but who knows
May 7th, 201212:19 am
I saw that play, he was off on his throw, how unusual is that on a kid?
Gonzo had a dozen years to perfect it. I think you are letting first impressions affect you too much, but there is no denying that he is not as good as the other 4 recent SSs we’ve seen here
May 7th, 201212:20 am
he’ll end up a sub eventually somewhere
May 7th, 201212:21 am
gotta go. TTFN y’all…
May 7th, 201212:27 am
From an article by Patrick Saunders at the Denver Post –
Welcome to Coors Field, home of the Braves.
Full article: http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_20562103/rockies-pitching-falters-again-braves-earn-sweep-at-coors
May 7th, 201212:29 am
Nolie – you have to look at that play hard because it told a lot of info.
1) Took the wrong route to the ball
2) Planted to make the throw instead of keeping his momentun going towards first.
3) Arm not strong enough to make the throw
4) Weak throw also off target
He has been a surprise with the bat. I think he missed a sign today on the squeeze which resulted in a DP after he didn’t run with the pitch. (Fransisco on third moving and Beachy trying to get bunt down) They ignore him and let him go to second if he goes when the pitcher breaks.
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