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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
249 comments Add your comment
Kris
March 31st, 2012
1:36 am
How long before FG realizes Medlen is Maddux 2nd coming? Prolly after he is fired. Just like last year by the time he realized he was in denial about DLowe we were out of the playoffs. What a joke.
Kris
March 31st, 2012
1:41 am
If FG made made Medlen start one game instead of DLowe we r in the playoffs. But no, FG says DLowe is fine with all the track records of double digit ERA! Fire FG before its too late!
Rafael
March 31st, 2012
2:18 am
Another “AFFORDABLE” washed-up BUM I can watch at Turner Field while I enjoy my 33% OFF concessions.
livan hernandez « « The Latest Fuzz The Latest Fuzz
March 31st, 2012
6:13 am
[...] 1-year deal with Braves after Astros …Washington PostBraves sign Livan HernandezFox NewsAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -Winston-Salem Journal -MLB.comall 223 news [...]
phoenix
March 31st, 2012
7:15 am
Somewhere out there Charlie Kerfeld and Bob Wickman are getting loose. Livan’s best talents would be as a pinch hitter off a weak Braves bench. The Braves have just added an overweight, aging .500 pitcher to an overweight, aging .500 team. Welcome back to 1989.
Furman Bitcher
March 31st, 2012
7:17 am
Tough crowd here. Just chill out folks he is just going to be a long innings eater not a starter. Now if you want to bitch that we should use some of our talent to go get a REAL bat for left field then let the bitching begin!!!!
archie
March 31st, 2012
7:19 am
Now that we have “37 year old” Livan Hernandez, let’s go after a new manager. By this math, Jack McKeon is now only 42.
Red Wolf
March 31st, 2012
7:21 am
Brilliant move by Wren (compared to his other moves this off season, or lack thereof) 37 yr. old washed up Livan Hernandez is the only piece of the puzzle missing for the drive to beat out the Mets and not finish last. Ridiculous signing.
Furman Bitcher
March 31st, 2012
7:21 am
archie I laughed when the article said Livan was 20 in 1995
archie
March 31st, 2012
7:26 am
Who else didn’t make the cut for the god-awful Houston Astros? Let’s snatch them up before the Yanks and Phils sign ‘em!
David O'Brien
March 31st, 2012
7:53 am
DOB, can you tell me why Braves do not use the closer in the closer spot and the set up man in the set up spot instead of middle relief. Seems they would want to get them use to the pressure. — here come the judge
Same reasons other teams don’t: Because minor leaguers or fringe players are the ones hitting in ninth inning for much of spring. And because minor leaguers or low-end-of-totem-pole pitchers generally are the ones kept around till end of games for most of spring, while others get their work in and then their postgame ice and/or workouts and go home. That changes, obviously, late in spring when regulars play most of game and many fringe players have been sent down. But still, there is no semblance of pressure in minor league game that is found in big-league games. Established pitchers are working on things in spring training games, not doing everything in their power to get every hitter out.
David O'Brien
March 31st, 2012
7:54 am
DOB…stocky? How many times did you change that word before settling on stocky? — tlclaw
Ha. That made me laugh. And I don’t refute it, either.
Disgusted
March 31st, 2012
8:17 am
“This is one of those moves that isn’t pretty (or even terribly significant), but it makes a lot of sense. Livan is a plan C of sorts. If a starter goes down (knock on wood), we have Medlen. If two of them go down (knock knock), we have a veteran who can throw nine innings’ worth of 69 mph junkball without breaking a sweat.”
Darryk Blackberry–Spot on, while its not going to make the Braves an NL East favorite, it would not have been a bad thing to have a Livan Hernandez does the stretch last yr instead of throwing out those kids who were not ready last September.
Could he have made a one of two game difference, I don’t know, but a one game difference would have been the balance from one of the biggest late season chokes in history to being in the post season a second yr in a row.
All we needed was one more win.
If the game was run like it was 20 or so yrs ago Medelen would get a chance as a SP. But this day in time its about these new fangles numbers that are more theoritical like FIP, BAIP, etc than bottom line numbers such as “did you win the game?”
Everybody looks for the 97 MPH fastball and stuff over substance. The sabermetric fad will fade out in time.
Charlie
March 31st, 2012
8:25 am
Another baseball move, that insures Franki Wren’s status as Atlanta’s Villiage Idoit. Thanks, Franki. You never fail to negatively amaze.
Disgusted
March 31st, 2012
8:26 am
Another point for those who want to call this a “garbage sing”.
As recently as 2010, this guy did pitch 211 IP, won 10 games, had a 3.66 ERA and for the saberlovers, a pitching WAR of over 3.
He did pitch 175 IP last yr.
The more I think of it, this sign could be alot better than what some think.
Now, if Frank can get a value hitter. And no, I do not want to give up Kris Medelen for the average Will Venable. Veneble has been a MLB disappointment. That was a rumore I heard and hopefully thare is no substance to it.
I’d take Venable for a lesser prospect maybe. It depends. I could take a package deal of Venable and Chase Headley maybe, don’t know what I would want the Braves to give up.
beachcomber
March 31st, 2012
8:46 am
Thought about this yesterday when MLB radio announced his release. From a baseball standpoint, it’s a low risk deal but for old codgers like me this really stings. Like the Red Sox signing Bucky Dent or, to go back further, the Yankees signing Bill Mazeroski.Granted, neither of these guys had as much “assistance” in their efforts, but it still stings.
Ebenezer Snerdberg
March 31st, 2012
8:49 am
Frank Cox just loves to get has beens for Fredi Cox, and RogerMcCox! When will they learn. GO BRAVES
Clear as Day
March 31st, 2012
9:41 am
This move is so obvious. Delgado is 1-4 and needs more maturing before he is ready for prime time.
Medlen will be the 5th starter and Hernandez moves into Medlen’s spot for now. When Hudson returns we may not see Hernandez again. Medlen pitched 3 more scoreless innings yesterday in a game Delgado blew. Medlen is not going anywhere.
Can Of Corn
March 31st, 2012
10:22 am
WREN COULD HAVE KEPT LOWE
If the Braves wanted a long reliever and a spot starter, Wren could have just as easily kept D. Lowe. They’re paying most of his salary anyway this year.
And he’s had a much better Spring Training than has Hernandez.
Bulldozer
March 31st, 2012
10:26 am
I just feel bad for Cory Gearrin. He has an excellent spring, then 1 or 2 bad outings and he gets bumped by this chump
David O'Brien
March 31st, 2012
10:33 am
Braves will start Hanson on Opening Day, followed by Jurrjens, Beachy, Minor. Fifth starter TBA, but will be Delgado or Teheran barring unexpected move. Fredi said today leaning toward Medlen in bullpen, which is what Wren has said all along.
Steve
March 31st, 2012
10:38 am
Most of you have this all wrong. This trade was not made so we could move Medlen to another team. This team was made so we could bring in a middle/long reliever so we could free up Medlen to be the fifth starter for the first month.
Teheran and Delgado are going back to Gwinnett to build confidence in case we need them later in the year, or in case we want to trade them. I do agree that the Braves are far too high on these two. I have seen nothing but flaoting change-ups from Teheran so far and I have no idea how he is so highly valued. Teheran may be the next Homer Bailey .. dominates AAA but gets rocked for years in the majors. Delgado at least looks like he could pitch in the majors.
The Braves were hoping from big Springs for those two but now they have to hold on to Jurrgens most likely, unless Medlen is rock solid.
My bet .. if the Braves let him start until Hudson comes back .. is that Medlen has the best ERA of all our starters by the time Hudson is ready. Would Wren be stupid enough to trade him at that point, or would he start to understand that true results are better than hype?
Steve
March 31st, 2012
10:39 am
Ah … missed Dave’s last post. What a failure this Braves coach and GM are. Thoroughly disappointed if Meds is not in the rotation.
Bravo Uno
March 31st, 2012
10:47 am
If Atlanta was a real sports town and had a critical media, Frank Wren would have been fired long ago.
Medlen is probably being packaged in a trade for Marlon Byrd or some other washed-up outfielder.
Michael G.
March 31st, 2012
10:51 am
This is an idiotic signing, and to try and claim otherwise is equally as idiotic. I fully realize this team is under budget constraints, but why is there this continual signing of players based on what they did 2 years ago? It defies all reasonable logic.
Steve
March 31st, 2012
10:52 am
How many games each year are truly decided by our middle relievers? Three, four? Most of the time when these guys come in the starter either got shelled (so no impact usually), or they got hurt (rare).
The reality is the impact of who you put in the 5th starter role is more important and the 5th/6th inning guy. I know they want to use Medlen because he can go 2-3 innings and possibly save having to use EOF or JV maybe once a week .. but guess what .. not putting your best pitcher out of those in the running in the fifth spot means your bullpen is going to have to absorb extra innings for 4 games he starts every 3 week which probably counters most of the benefit of having Medlen out there.
Now, take a look at the impact of the fifth starter. We are talking 25 games he plays a major role in .. at least! This should be a no brainer, and the brainless Braves management is screwing it up.
Kris
March 31st, 2012
11:09 am
Totally agree. Last year when the Braves had a meltdown, FG had a strange denial going, saying oh DLowe will be fine and look at his post season track record and all. He had 5 or 6 starts in September that could have been given to someone else like Medlen. EVERYONE screamed please bench DLowe. Why can’t we have a manager like Bruce Bochy who has a gut to bench Barry Zito when he struggled in the middle of 120 million contract. They went on to win the world series. Why can’t we have the management with some common sense?
Bossier Brave
March 31st, 2012
11:15 am
You bring in Livan for a couple of innings after one of the hard throwers…the other team’s timing will be all messed up. Good move…nice compliment to the rotation.
Bossier Brave
March 31st, 2012
11:16 am
Seriously…can you imagine batting against Livan in the 6th-7th…and then having to deal with Venters and Kimbrel. Kimbrel’s 98 will look like 198.
Bravo Uno
March 31st, 2012
11:31 am
Bossier Brave,
Seriously, if Livan makes an appearance it will generally mean the starting pitcher was rocked and the Braves are more than 7 runs down. Those game Venters & Kimbrell will not be pitching anyway, unless Fredi wants to waste them.
I’d rather go with some kid with an upside than an old guy long in the tooth.
But that is the Wren-Cox-Gonzalez mentality at work here.
cowdogit
March 31st, 2012
11:38 am
The braves know that with out Mazzone, the few pitchers left that don’t have arm problems will break down before the year is over. Hernandez is known as a rubber arm that never breaks down.No matter that he has losing record, Cox is trying to justify not replacing a pitching coach that is zero for six in division titles with a coach that has won fourteen titles.
Mister Frisky
March 31st, 2012
11:56 am
I’m sure Livan will be enjoying several of those discounted brisket sandwiches.
reckingball
March 31st, 2012
12:52 pm
“he famously exploited umpire Eric Gregg’s wide strike zone”, all he had to do was throw it in the direction of the plate(one called strike was thrown over McGriff’s head).
Eric Gregg’s wide strike zone was only applied for the Marlin pitcher, and not for the Brave’s pitcher.
Was this game fixed?
It is listed by Baseball America, as the 3rd worst performance by a plate umpire in all of MLB, for the 1975 to 2000 era.
iopbrave
March 31st, 2012
1:03 pm
Martinez replaces Lowe- for a lot less $
Robert
March 31st, 2012
1:09 pm
Flash forward to the World Series (I am being optimistic here)
Livan Hernandez is on the mound. He throws a pitch to Derek Jeter and home plate umpire Angel Hernandez calls a strike.
From the far end of a dingy and poorly lit corridor in a nursing home, a loud crash is heard, followed by cacophonous hee-hawing. Three burly medical attendents rush down to the room at the far end of the hall. From the room next door, ex-Brave Dan Kolb emerges and joins the three orderlies. As they walk into the room, they notice that the tv is broken and smeared with stool, several plates of carrots and bananas have been strewn around the floor, and a large box of sugar cubes is scattered everywhere. In a pen in the corner a donkey wearing a diaper is hee-hawing and stamping his hooves and wearing a squinchy-faced expression on his face
“Bobby STOP!” the four men scream in unison. “It’s ok Bobby. Livan is a Brave now. See, look, he has the big A on his hat. It’s ok when Livey throws a strike”
Slowly Cox settles down, By the end of the third inning, the room has been cleaned up and Bobby is munching contentedly on carrot. The new tv has been brought into the room and the game is turned on just in time to hear the announcer say “called strike to Chipper Jones”
And the bedlam begins anew. Finally, exasperated, one of the orderlies grabs Cox’s tail and holds on long enough to be able to inject the beast with a strong sedative. As the hee-hawing quiets and turns into a slobbery snoring, Kolb leans over and strokes the long ears and whispers “I love you Bobby. You’re the bestest manager ever. Will you let me pitch the ninth inning tomorrow when we play the Alzheimer’s ward?”
Disgusted
March 31st, 2012
3:06 pm
The Braves should be fine with a 4 man rotation for the first 2, three weeks of the year.
By then, it won’t be long for Hudson to return.
Minor really looks ready to pitch MLB for a full season and that is a big plus.
And Medelen and L. Hernandez will be a factor. Not bad for SP so far. At least they do not have to put in the kids who are just not ready.
Maybe by 2015 Delgado and Teheran will be up to par and maybe A. Vizcaino can bounce back and do something good.
Disgusted
March 31st, 2012
3:09 pm
Kris–The reason why Fredi did not bench D. Lowe down the stretch is because he had nobody but a bunch of kids who were not ready for prime time.
And without Lowe, no wild card in 2010. Fredi thought he was going to get lightning in a bottle again and it was not to be in ‘11.
I will say it again, it would not have been bad to have a L. Hernandez this past September.
NickB
March 31st, 2012
5:35 pm
A in 2010: Missed 13 starts, ERA of 4.64, K/9 of 6.65, BB/9 of 3.25, HR/9 of 1.01, 116 IP, 1.2 fWAR
A in 2011: Missed 10 starts, ERA of 2.96, K/9 of 5.33, BB/9 of 2.61, HR/9 of 0.83, 152 IP, 1.5 fWAR
B in 2010: Missed 0 starts, ERA of 3.66, K/9 of 4.85, BB/9 of 2.72, HR/9 of 0.68, 211 IP, 2.9 fWAR
B in 2011: Missed 0 starts, ERA of 4.47, K/9 of 5.08, BB/9 of 2.36, HR/9 of 0.82, 175 IP, 1.9 fWAR
Player A- Jurrjens
Player B- Livan Hernandez
Now, not saying I’d rather have Livan starting than JJ, but you can’t say JJ is an ace or soild #2 starter and then also claim that Hernandez is a bum. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Hernandez still has the ability to get people out and he won’t walk the bases loaded. He will be very valuable in middle relief and spot starting. Leaving Medlen and Martinez to pitch in higher leverage situations where they are better suited.
NickB
March 31st, 2012
5:44 pm
BTW, Medlens starting stats aren’t very good when compared to his relief stats. he get’s overexposed as a starter. The numbers show it. His k/9 drop down remarkably , though his BB’s stay the same) it seem like the 3rd time through the order the hits go way up too. He needs to learn a better 3rd pitch if he wants to be a starter as just going fastball changeup isn’t enough for 6 or 7 innings.
ANGRY BIRD
March 31st, 2012
5:54 pm
While Wren is at it, why doesn’t he call up Hank Aaron and see if he’s willing to fill a roster spot. This team will be in a death match all season with the Met’s to see who finishes last in the division.
Hammond
March 31st, 2012
6:00 pm
you have got to be kidding fat old and slow every team is going to light him up bet he is gone by june
Disgusted
March 31st, 2012
8:09 pm
Nick B..I like your 5:35 post, for a minute I was the only one who thought this Livan sign is something that can work.
Livan did have a pretty good yr in 2010. Hey, I don;t know how much impact he can have but for the $$$$$ u can do worse.
As for Medelen, there is time for him to develop a third pitch, if not this yr maybe ‘13 or 14.
Its too early to say he cannot start because we really do not know what he is since the rehabilitation.
He was impressive in both roles before the injury. I have not looked at the game logs, but he was making progress in games he started.
For now, with Hanson, Beachey, JJ and Minor they are okay until Hudson can get right.
Disgusted
March 31st, 2012
8:12 pm
I am not saying that JJ is an ACE, but he is better than those WAR numbers make him out to be.
He is a solid number three starter when healthy. He wins and comes up with a respectable mid 3’s ERa and those numbers still count for something.
NickB
April 1st, 2012
4:59 am
His WAR is low cuz he’s missed 23 starts the last 2 years. If he makes 35 starts both years his WAR is gonna be around 4+ each year. (or more as he may not have had such an ugly run last year if he’s healthy)
Choppinmama
April 1st, 2012
2:22 pm
By bringing Livan on board, I doubt that Chipper is the oldest guy on the team now. Anything to save the bullpen some work during the season….I think The General will fill in quite nicely and eat a few non-calorie innings for us this season. Shrewd move.
gladejo
April 1st, 2012
10:50 pm
Wren said, “The thing about LIvan is, he competes – that’s half the battle” Derek Lowe competed too, and what did that get us? I know it isn’t a big investment, but is Wren saying the young guns we have don’t compete, even though they have younger, better arms that should be the future (including this season) for the Braves? Small investment or not, he takes someone’s place on the roster. I really hope Wren proves my doubts are wrong with this choice. Time will shortly tell.
BLK09GT
April 2nd, 2012
8:57 am
This is weird…at first glance I thought this must be an April’s Fools Joke. Then I saw this was dated Friday. I don’t keep up with Braves news for a couple of days and look what happens.
BLK09GT
April 2nd, 2012
4:37 pm
I know I am talking to myself on this old post, I guess I am still in shock over this. Just got done reading through all of the comments and just wanted to say NativeBird at 5:33 and Forrest Hump at 7:25 had me rolling and forgetting the reality of this situation for a few moments. Thanks.
TWIKB Notes: Late spring round-up, Pineda hurt? Carpenter back soon? What’s up with the Braves? Reds? Tribe? | Kegerator Nation
April 2nd, 2012
8:38 pm
[...] While a few Braves are embracing the new, the team itself just signed the old…very old Livan Hernandez. Only 15-years after stealing a World Series from the Braves with umpire Eric Gregg’s help, Hernandez joins the Braves as a washed out 37-year old who couldn’t make the lowly Astros roster. WTF?!?!?! http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2012/03/30/braves-sign-37-year-old-livan-hernandez-as-relie... [...]