10:23 am March 23, 2012, by David O'Brien
March 26th, 201211:20 am
scoot Wow. I think I just confused my own self.
weird thing is, i think i got that.
youre saying this doesnt necessarily change expectations of how much chipper will play. you could be right.
March 26th, 201211:22 am
Murph – Byrd is a solid player who can cover all three outfield postions and play good drefense. Usually puts up a .290, .345, .435 line. He’d make a good addition and could be counted on much more than any of our current 4th, 5th, 6th outfielder types.
March 26th, 201211:24 am
March 26th, 2012
DOB said last night, and I paraphase ” Hudson to pitch on teams day off” , I just don’t get it. How does FREDI expect TIM to win with no team back of him on the field?
Hanson, not Hudson, is going to throw today, because it is his day to throw and they want him to stay on schedule. There will be plenty of players on the field today. Picture the backfields, for a moment, filled with minor league professional baseball players.
March 26th, 201211:25 am
Jon Morosi @jonmorosi
#Braves indeed looking for an outfielder, sources say, but would be reluctant to put Kris Medlen in the deal. They value his versatility. If #Braves acquire an outfielder, they would prefer that he be able to play center field.
March 26th, 201211:27 am
I think the chipper retirement talk followed by the chipper knee surgery, after an off-season of “couldn’t walk til that scar tissue popped” makes folks believe that Chipper is going to play 20 games then hang em up.
I doubt that is the case. I agree with scoots that Chipper is likely to miss the games he misses because of “meniscus tear” “oblique strain” “turf toe” “quad strain” etc.
The bigger concern is how out-of-baseball-shape chipper is. Even though he misses a week of the season due to the knee surgery, how does he get ready for the season after that? Won’t he need 1-2 weeks of extended ST?
March 26th, 201211:29 am
The question on Byrd of another OF, will he be under contract in 2013. With the chipper retirement announcement, Braves can start planning for a player to take over at 3B or LF now.
We got RED SOX @ PHILLS in about 90 minns.
March 26th, 201211:31 am
That they have not made such a move tells me that they think they can cover 30-40 games with the resources available.
C’mon scoots. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It’s been all of what, 4 or 5 days since his retirement announcement and the surgery requiring injury and you’re citing the lack of action in that short period as evidence they will not make a move? The teams patience only shows that they don’t make knee-jerk trades.
I don’t know what the team will do, but I think it is too soon to make any judgements as to their thinking/planning on this.
March 26th, 201211:34 am
Travis Snider was sent down by Jays and I heard they may consider trading him. LH, young(24), plays all 3 OF, mostly the corners. Does ok against RH pitching and LH pitching dominates him. I think I just talked myself out of considering him.
March 26th, 201211:35 am
DOB said last night, and I paraphase ” Hudson to pitch on teams day off” , I just don’t get it. How does FREDI expect TIM to win with no team back of him on the field? — George
Hey George, no need to paraphrase when you or anyone else can read the actual story. Or do you just read the headlines, and even get those wrong? (It’s Hanson, not Hudson.)
The teams patience only shows that they don’t make knee-jerk trades.
And even still, should the team make a move by the end of the week, it could still be categorized as a knee-jerk trade….
I’m fine with it, just so long as Pratt Redman isn’t the guy they bring in. We’d just have to write the whole season off at that point.
March 26th, 201211:37 am
Not sure how it could be categorized as “knee jerk” when they’ve said all along they’d look at who was available towards the end of spring training.
March 26th, 201211:39 am
It’s been all of what, 4 or 5 days since his retirement announcement and the surgery requiring injury and you’re citing the lack of action in that short period as evidence they will not make a move?
No. I’m citing the lack of action in the offseason, or at least the lack of a noticeable pursuit of options other than Diaz of Hinske, as evidence that they were comfortable with Chipper missing 30-40 games and covering that absence. Has nothing to do with the surgery.
For all I know, this completely changes their outlook. Or their projection of performance from Diaz and Hinske might have changed. Don’t know.
March 26th, 201211:42 am
Actually the “Powers To Be ” have never really stopped looking for ways to improve the team and were still actively searching for OF help before Chipper announced his retirement and announced he knee needed repair.
March 26th, 201211:45 am
I’m citing the lack of action in the offseason, or at least the lack of a noticeable pursuit of options other than Diaz of Hinske, as evidence that they were comfortable with Chipper missing 30-40 games and covering that absence. Has nothing to do with the surgery.
Everyone else, it seems to me, is talking about how recent events may have impacted that off-season thinking. And with that, it’s been all of 4 or 5 days since he said he’s retiring and further damaging his knees.
The team could very well make a move and it could be entirely because of these recent events.
March 26th, 201211:48 am
One of The things, Chippers situation changes, there may be a trade involving a player or two that was not a consideration before last week.
I think we all expected Chipper to miss substantial time this year, but didn’t expect surgery this early on. Can’t see how it COULDN’T influence the amount of time they figured he’d be available. This could easily affect how much he plays.
That’s a really easy one. It is a term applied to the proximity of two events.
March 26th, 201211:50 am
Can’t see how it COULDN’T influence the amount of time they figured he’d be available. This could easily affect how much he plays.
Agreed. If they planned for Chipper to miss time, I’d imagine it was the idea that he’d be given time off, at their desecration, and that he wouldn’t miss week(s) at a time.
March 26th, 201211:51 am
announced the knee needed repair……not he knee needed repair…….
March 26th, 201211:54 am
There has been some talk lately on the MLB network of teams going back to the old way (up through the 60’s and early 70’s) of using their bullpen, specifically in regards to using the closer. This has been discussed before and no one really uses it, but the thought is to bring in your closer whenever the game is on the line, regardless of the inning.
For instance, if the Braves were leading the Phils 3-1 in the 7th and the Phils loaded the bases, bring in Kimbrell THEN to put out the fire (that is where the term “fireman” came from) and finish up with EOF and Venters. This is the way the game was played for most of the 20th Century up until closers like Sutter and Gossage changed the game. The Yankees would bring in Ryne Duren, the Dodgers Clem Labine, the Giants Don McMahon, or the White Sox Hoyt Wilhelm whenever the other team threatened to take the lead, thereby using their best pitcher(s) when the game was on the line.
How many times last year did Proctor, Linebrink, or our 7th or 8th least effective pitcher give up the lead in the middle to late innings while Fredi waited until the 7th, 8th, and 9th to use Oventbrel regardless of the score at that point? And how many games was Oventbrel used when we were already losing just to give them “work”?
I would love to see the Braves or somebody try this and use their best reliever(s) when the game is on the line, regardless of what inning it is.
If it caught on, ‘holds’ would or could become as important as ’saves’, or they could change the rules to give the save to whomever(sp?) prevented the other team from taking the lead regardless of the inning. I mean, now, if a pitcher allows the other team to tie or go ahead, that pitcher gets a “blown save”, so why wouldn’t they get credit for a “save” if they held the lead and that’s the way the game ended?
To me it has become obvious and makes too much sense, and I wish some teams, especially the Braves because we have a stellar bullpen, would use this approach.
What do you think?
March 26th, 201212:02 pm
Any more knee jerk and Chipper is bound for the 60-day DL.
Ten Paul – I KNOW what it means. My point was that if they’ve been saying for months that they would explore options available late in ST and then they do so, that it looks like it was what they had planned all along and not in reaction to Chipper’s current injury – though it could influence the urgency with which they inverstigate who is out there and might be a good fit..
March 26th, 201212:06 pm
They can’t trade Medlen unless it’s for a bigger return… I’m trying not to overvalue Medlen as a player here, but without him the bullpen takes on a much, much different look. Who would take his spot? Can’t think of anyone who fits within the system currently.
March 26th, 201212:07 pm
PLEASE DO NOT JERK CHIPPERS KNEE! It is sore.
March 26th, 201212:08 pm
TIM TEBOW says thank you so my time in Denver.
March 26th, 201212:11 pm
Peter Bourjos would be a good player for the Braves and is a great CF’er. Wonder what it would take to get him?
TIM TEBOW says he is excited to be a JET.
March 26th, 201212:17 pm
If they don’t want Medlen as a starter and they want to get maximum return for him, let him start a few games in April, he will probably pitch lights out and then you can trade him to some desperate team for a good return. Then they can hope that Teheran or Delgado turn out to be as good a starter as Meds. LOL!
March 26th, 201212:22 pm
That was neat, GEORGIA girl winning Cupcakes last night.
March 26th, 201212:26 pm
BravePack, I’m thinking it would take quite a bit to get Bourjos. He’s not even arb eligible for another two years and he’s only 24.
March 26th, 201212:36 pm
BravePack, I’m thinking it would take quite a bit to get Bourjos. He’s not even arb eligible for another two years and he’s only 24.
Not to mention the fact that the Angels really have no desire to trade him
Greatest Offensive and Defensive Player of Atlanta Fame is Bar-none-Dale Murphey, Best Outfielder of any comparable, Perenial All-Star, The One Player Tommy Lasorda hated to Face in all of the NL was Dale Murphey. Lasorda knew Murph bettr than most Atl Managers, and yes Murph had to endure the era of no-maintenance philosophy of Braves Ownership, which is why Phil Neikro had to pitch well past his prime, and there was Little to cheer about back then Outside of watching Dale Murphey Chase down uncatchable balls by anybody else, Throw Speedsters out on the basepaths, and Blister Opposing Pitchers from the batters box. He was the Mormon Terror of the South. His Life Outside the Ball-park was Exemplary, Much more of a Role Model Parents were’nt ashamed to have their son’s emulate, compared to yes Hooterville Hanny Jones.
McFann :Ô: :Ô: :ô:
March 26th, 201212:37 pm
10Paul McFann, in the year 2013, prepare for another fan on the fav-brave McCann wagon. With Chipper retiring, McCann is next in line for me.
Cool! I’ll start clearing a space for ya—we always welcome new members!
March 26th, 201212:38 pm
I just don’t see them trading right now for a several year alternative in CF. What, exactly do you get from Bourn if you tell him you’re not even thinking of re-signing him at this point of the season?
BP, I finally got a chance to fire up MLB: The Show over the weekend… pretty awesome game.
I played a few games and then jumped right into Road To The Show mode, just like I do every year. Ended the first month hitting .415 with 3 HR and 20 RBI, and promptly went 0′fer in my next 10 or 11 games. I’m back down to .285 now and have been put on the bench following my 10th unsuccessful stolen base attempt.
Just like every year, hitting is my biggest complaint. I guess fastball low or fastball away, just so I have some idea what is coming and where, and I still go 6 or 7 games without making contact at a time.
I need to explore the options and see if there’s a way I can make hitting a little more forgiving. It’s fun, but too frustrating currently to keep my attention. I’d rather get schooled by 12 year olds in Call of Duty.
but the thought is to bring in your closer whenever the game is on the line, regardless of the inning.
All you need is the crystal ball to figure out “whenever the game is on the line” and to know that such a moment is the only such moment that will occur in the game.
This has been discussed before and no one really uses it
March 26th, 201212:39 pm
cabravesfan, probably depends on what they could get for him. All players are trade-able for the right price. It’s just that Bourjos’s price is probably too high to make it worthwhile for the Braves.
If the Braves came to them and offered Teheran, Delgado, Bethancourt and Simmons, I’m sure they’d listen. (Just using hyperbole to get the point across here, not making any suggestions.)
March 26th, 201212:40 pm
McFann, in the year 2013, prepare for another fan on the fav-brave McCann wagon. With Chipper retiring, McCann is next in line for me.
Cool! I’ll start clearing a space for ya—we always welcome new members!
You better start working on your pout-pout fish faces for 2014 when McCann leaves for the riches of NY…
Not to mention the fact that the Angels really have no desire to trade [Bourjos]
Yeah, OK. What about Matt Kemp, then?
March 26th, 201212:41 pm
He’s their starting center fielder- no way they even listen to an offer that does not include a replacement (especially with Mike Trout hurting and starting the season in AAA)
March 26th, 201212:47 pm
ncscoots, I think the point is to not be strictly tied to bringing in your best reliever only in the 9th with a lead. Don’t be afraid to use him when the heart of the other team’s order is coming up in a close game in the 6th or 7th or 8th. Because you have to get to the save situation before you worry about protecting the lead in that situation.
But quite a few teams have pitchers who are just as good or better than their closer outside of the closer role, so teams do humor the “closer mentality” crowd that way.
March 26th, 201212:48 pm
Yes, by all means, trade Kris Medlen and heck even throw in Martin Prado. We don’t need a 5th starter that is reliable, or a 3rd baseman/left fielder that could back-up our injury prone 3rd baseman.
March 26th, 201212:49 pm
cabravesfan, I think it depends on the offer. They have enough outfield depth, they could make do with Bourjos gone, if they were to get a good haul. But they probably want a haul that’s not all the realistic from other teams, so the point is moot.
Very interresting womens tounament game tonight at 7:00 Baylor vs Tenn.
March 26th, 201212:52 pm
Shaun, I already know your opinion on the “closer mentality”. I’m having a conversation with ken, who I know to be a reasonable man, willing to entertain differing opinions. That’s why it’s called a “conversation”, rather than a “diatribe”, which is pretty much all one can get from your side of the keyboard.
March 26th, 201212:53 pm
scoots: If you prevent the opposing team from a tie or taking the lead, that is the moment the game is on the line. Why wouldn’t you want your best available pitcher at that point instead of your 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th choice?
I would like to see the stats on how many times the back of the bullpen gave up the lead and the times Oventbrel were used when someone else had already given up the lead. We missed the playoffs by one game, I have to believe if Fredi had used the bullpen more effectively, we might have won one more game.
They have enough outfield depth, they could make do with Bourjos gone, if they were to get a good haul
Bourn and Fish. And if that’s not enough, sign and trade Kawakami too.
Trade Kris Medlen! He’s no good!
March 26th, 201212:56 pm
ncscoots, I’m just clarifying the point of view that you are not willing to entertain: That it may be better to use your best reliever earlier than merely a save situation or the 9th inning or later. The idea is that you have to get to a save situation before you can worry about which pitcher you want to get the save.
Does you no good to save your closer until the ninth (if your closer is clearly your best reliever) if some lesser pitcher gives up a lead to the heart of the opposing team’s order in the 7th or 8th.
March 26th, 201212:59 pm
Oh good, we’re talking about closer usage again
March 26th, 20121:01 pm
Ken, I agree. You don’t necessarily have to look back to realize which situations call for your best reliever. If the score is tied and the opposing team has their 3-4-5 hitters coming up in the 7th, and your best reliever and closer matches up well against those hitters, it might be a good idea to go ahead and put your closer in the game, rather than saving him just in case you take a lead and want him to pick up a save. Personally, I’d rather my favorite team give itself the best chance to win rather than hope to see one particular pitcher possibly pick up a save.
…I guess that’s just me.
March 26th, 20121:02 pm
jeffrey d, apparently we need to.
Anybody ever dove into a brick wall? Does it hurt?
March 26th, 20121:06 pm
What happens when your closer is the 3rd best reliever on your team? That’s a better question.
March 26th, 20121:10 pm
Well, I would have, because ken’s a good guy and gives us good contributions here, and I don’t mind that conversation with someone open-minded. Probably have to wait on that for another day, Ken.
I got bit by fire ants this weekend. Took the mini-Murphs to Home Depot after the 4 year old’s soccer game and bought a bunch of flowers, then we went home to do our planting. Normally fire ants are easy to spot because they build sandy hills in the grass, but these were covert fire ants who built no hill. Ninja fire ants.
Anyways, dug up the spots in mulch where I was going to plant my girls’ flowers and was standing there watching them run around and collect rollie pollies when I felt the first bite. Looked down and my leg was covered… must’ve been 100 or so. I jumped, which triggered them all to bite at once, and started running around the yard wildly. Finally got to the hose and sprayed them all off.
Must’ve been about 30 or 40 bites just above my right ankle. The pain was horrible. Still swollen and hurting, 2 days later.
Point is, I’d rather lay down in a fire ant hill than listen to the same bullpen usage conversation.
March 26th, 20121:11 pm
I don’t know the answer to these questions, that is why I put it out there for discussion. The stat-heads on MLB think it’s a legitimate subject to talk about, but many of their ideas take forever to be assimilated into game.
March 26th, 20121:14 pm
March 26th, 20121:17 pm
“What happens when your closer is the 3rd best reliever on your team? That’s a better question”
That’s probably the way it should be, if you insist on strict roles for relievers.
ncscoots, open-minded is not refusing to entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe, a team should be willing to avoid strictly using its closer in save situations or in the 9th inning or later, if said closer is the best reliever on the team.
March 26th, 20121:19 pm
Braves will start a minor league pitcher Tues. vs. Mets. Neither team to use regular starter since they’ll face each other next week for real.
March 26th, 20121:20 pm
When folks entertain my points of view instead of refusing to simply because it’s me or because it’s not the way it’s always been done, I’ll believe that those folks are open-minded.
Maybe Bobby Abreu will be made available given all the trouble he’s having with the Angels’ front office lately. Seems like he’d make for a serviceable LF for a season.
March 26th, 20121:22 pm
You won’t find many open-minds on here due to your history with the blog. Right or wrong, that’s just the way it is.
Maybe you should email your thoughts to Ward and let him post them for you. The reception would be much warmer.
March 26th, 20121:25 pm
Murph, right. Some would rather be anti-Shaun than entertain the idea that I may be right in many of my views. Personality often wins the day over truth.
March 26th, 20121:26 pm
“if said closer is the best reliever on the team.”
But the closer isn’t the best reliever on the team…so what should we do about that? Campaign for a different closer?
March 26th, 20121:27 pm
I don’t mind keeping an open mind, as long as it is not so open that my brains fall out.
Very true Shawn… and nobody has personality like our very own Ward. He’d be our class-president and homecoming king, if we had such roles on the blog.
March 26th, 20121:30 pm
When folks entertain my points of view instead of refusing to simply because it’s me or because it’s not the way it’s always been done,
You poor man. Do you think that because someone disagrees with your point of view, that they have never considered that point of view on its merits? That is, that they have taken a logical look at the position and found it wanting?
In other words, it has nothing at all to do with you, LOL? You need to try that on for size.
March 26th, 20121:31 pm
And the headline reads, “Chipper makes knee jerk move, lands on 15 day DL.”
March 26th, 20121:34 pm
Off-days suck as much in ST as they do during the regular season…
What else can we talk about? Anything other than bullpen usage.
Teheran’s imminent shoulder surgery? Medlen’s soon-to-come start me or trade me quotes, ala Mike Minor? JJ’s resurgence and Delgado’s loss of command?
March 26th, 20121:37 pm
I would love world peace but Shaun might agree with me.
March 26th, 20121:39 pm
I agree with your Show evaluation on hitting as I have the same problem. I tend to guess fastball either high or low and go from there. Obviously most HR’s are going to be hit on high fastballs than low but it is tough. It is hard to keep me interested as well after a couple games of 3-5 hits total each game so I go back to NHL 12…great game if you like hockey.
The image of you running around your yard wildly had me laughing at my desk at work…good story and sorry you are in pain but you have to admit if I told that story you’d be laughing as well.
March 26th, 20121:42 pm
MFin04, I’d just assume teams focus more on match-ups and leverage when assigning roles to relievers, and avoid assigning roles based mostly on inning or whether it’s a save situation or not.
ncscoots, well, I think it has more to do with me sometimes. But for the most part it probably has to do with people’s preconceived ideas. For example, with the closer discussion, people have a preconceived idea that closers who are also the best pitchers on their teams should come in pretty much only in save situations or in the 9th inning or later. But when I bring up something that is probably equally as controversial, like Chipper being as valuable or more valuable than Ryan Howard since Opening Day 2009, no one has a problem with that view. No one wants to have their preconceived notions challenged, unless the challenge is something that makes them feel good.
March 26th, 20121:46 pm
Here we go again! Let’s bring Mariano in for the 7th!
Shaun, Sorry you are not right in “Many of your views” That’s your problem! Learn to accept others opinions and you’ll be fine. Now back to your argument and the Braves..
When you brought up this issue up last year, I tracked how many times Fredi used your theory.
Fredi brought in our closer, in a tie game, before the ninth inning, 4 times last year.
It worked only once, 1-4. The one win was extra innings in Pittsburgh!
25% is not any good!
Look it up, i’m sure you will not believe me!
March 26th, 20121:50 pm
Wow, Gallagher suffered his second heart attack in two weeks. Maybe he needs to eat more fruits, rather than smashing them.
March 26th, 20121:51 pm
Byrd’s the word.
March 26th, 20121:52 pm
BP, what’s your gamer tag? Maybe if we’re playing online we’ll have more fun.
Tonight after the mini-Murphs go to bed I’m going to sim a couple of seasons… first one with Pastornicky at SS and second one with Simmons at SS. We’ll see how it goes and then I’ll use the results as my basis all future starting SS discussions.
March 26th, 20121:53 pm
Threadkiller, I’m looking at Kimbrel’s game log from last season. There wasn’t a single game in which he came in earlier than the 9th.
March 26th, 20121:54 pm
When were you at Sprayberry? My Mom taught math there for a few years and was head of the Math
Department! Her name was Nancy Roberts.
March 26th, 20121:57 pm
OK then..How many times did he come in the ninth inning during a tie game?
March 26th, 20121:58 pm
The best thing I will always remember about Chipper is ALL the times he crushed Mets fans with either a huge hit or a great play on the field.
Talk about someone having a teams number. The Mets fans can’t even argue that one.
It was always a thing of beauty to see them ALL go silent! Thanks Chipper!
March 26th, 20122:02 pm
I can’t believe that the Braves are remaining steadfastly stupid about not putting Medlen in the rotation.
Brilliant move considering the braves found out exactly how important every single game can be when it comes to making or missing the playoffs. However, it seems that they haven’t learned their lesson.
Stupid, stupid, stupid
March 26th, 20122:03 pm
Murph You better start working on your pout-pout fish faces for 2014 when McCann leaves for the riches of NY…
Not gonna happen…
March 26th, 20122:04 pm
Marlon Byrd, umm not a bad idea
March 26th, 20122:08 pm
shaun nothing against you bro
but i try and read everyones thoughts when i have the time, but hey
even when i have the time and i run into your long winded diatribes, scroll
scroll , scroll…….. sorry, just the way it is
March 26th, 20122:10 pm
Patrick, I agree… especially with both Delgado and Teheran not showing much of anything this spring.
If the team plans to keep Medlen and use him in a “utility” type pitching role, then give him the April starts until Hudson returns… he’s earned them based on his spring performance.
If the team plans to trade Medlen, then give him the April starts until Hudson returns… if he goes out and performs well, it only ups his value. If he performs poorly, well, he’s a bullpen guy anyways, so what did you expect?
March 26th, 20122:11 pm
March 26th, 20122:12 pm
Murph, Abreu looks all but done.
March 26th, 20122:13 pm
flange1: I’m an old f@rt, I graduated in 1964. Your Mom probably knows one of my best friends and classmates, Wanda Patterson. She taught at Sprayberry for many years and still works with the alumni, current and retired teachers.
March 26th, 20122:16 pm
shaun I’m looking at Kimbrel’s game log from last season. There wasn’t a single game in which he came in earlier than the 9th.
was kimbrel the braves’ best reliever last year? he was awesome, but we had some great arms, so its a question worth asking.
ill say that i agree with you in principle on bullpen usage. but, when you get into specifics on how you see that played out, i dont agree with you then.
Yeah, I know… but sadly, he’s the type of player that the Braves would target. Atlanta is a home for wayward, aged vets with 100 AB’s left in ‘em.
Anything other than bullpen usage.
March 26th, 20122:19 pm
Threadkiller, I only count one time when Kimbrel came in in the 9th or later in a non-save situation when he got the loss or gave up the winning run(s).
He was pretty much used like a traditional closer all season, never coming in earlier than the 9th. Fredi never used “my theory,” if you mean using Kimbrel, say, in the 7th or 8th with some of the opposing team’s best hitters due up.
March 26th, 20122:25 pm
Braves will start a minor league pitcher Tues. vs. Mets.
Delgado or Teheran, then? #FreeMedlen!
March 26th, 20122:28 pm
shaun Fredi never used “my theory,” if you mean using Kimbrel, say, in the 7th or 8th with some of the opposing team’s best hitters due up.
are you sure he didnt? he had two guys in the bullpen with lower ERAs than kimrel last year. they didnt K guys at the same rate, but they were still getting lots of outs.
She started a bit after you left! She started at Osborne in 1972 and went to Sprayberry in 1981. SHe retired in 1992.
And yes, she knew Wanda!
I recall scoots entertaining that thought. He tickled it’s feet. He giggled his keys in front of it. He made silly faces to it. And in a goofy playful voice he asked it why it always seemed to have “poopy diapers.”
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