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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,404 comments Add your comment
Lew
March 13th, 2012
10:45 am
George – One of the worst teams in baseball history – The 62 Mets – won 40 games with Freaking Marv Throneberry playing. No way the Braves even have a losing season, no matter how bad they fall.
For crying out loud – they’ve only had ONE losing season since 1991 and it was barely below .500 – and that was with three rookies (including Jorge Campillo) in the starting rotation.
richbrave
March 13th, 2012
10:46 am
If HEYWARD drags on through ST like this, I see DIAZ/HINSKI in LF, BOURN in CF, and PARRAZ/CONSTANZA in right.
Murph
March 13th, 2012
10:46 am
The Rev getting the start today. Looks like they’re getting Constanza some time in RF as well. Is Heyward next in line for some starting lineup speculation?
Gonna shape up to be an interesting last 3 weeks of ST. The Rev could do himself a lot of favors with a good performance today.
ncgary
March 13th, 2012
10:47 am
besides chipper will get it tofether, and have another solid season.
we are gonna have to adjust to 2 days off a week
Jimmy
March 13th, 2012
10:47 am
It’s not all doom and gloom for me yet. But it is a little darker with the Chipper news.
I was going into the season with the hope he would play 90 to 110 games. I don’t see that now. He can’t even go now and we’ve played just a hand full of games. He is 0 for 2012, and even scouts have said he looks terrible.
He’ll never make it come July and August.
Sad, sad state of affairs. I feel bad for him and even worse for our team.
VaBravesFan
March 13th, 2012
10:47 am
beekay
Yeah he needs to bounce back, but it kinda sucks were banking on regulars to bounce back and then the bench players who might be counted on alot more than expected during the season have to bounce back as well. Alot of rolling the dice this season.
richbrave
March 13th, 2012
10:48 am
LEW:
Sounds something like the possibilities for this year [three rookies pitching] with the exception of CAMPILLO who is still soft-tossing ‘junk’ in the Mexican leagues.
ncscoots
March 13th, 2012
10:49 am
And if Heyward doesn’t hit well enough to hold down the 3rd spot, it doesn’t really matter what the line up is- we got big problems.
True that. The team might be able to withstand the absence of one major bat, but missing both Chipper and Heyward would put a lot of strain on the rest of the offense. That would take the team from having a lot of offensive depth and lineup length to having very little of either.
Jeff R
March 13th, 2012
10:51 am
Simmons is the real deal. Whether or not he’s ready for the bigs is the question. And Simmons is better than Furcal, because Furcal is – what? – 70 years old now?
Arkansas Transplant
March 13th, 2012
10:51 am
If we’re stuck with Diaz or Hinske for LF, well this is going to be a long season.
Lew
March 13th, 2012
10:51 am
richbrave – Not surprised Jorge is still going. Makes sense to me.
beekay
March 13th, 2012
10:52 am
Is ther any possibility that J-Hey gets sent down to AAA to start the season if he continues to slump? I realize we don’t really have a replacement but just thinking out loud
Lew
March 13th, 2012
10:53 am
Transplant – Not if Fredi uses them as a platoon and sticks with it without screwing around. It won’t be great, but we’d get a .275, .333, .400 line out of left if we did with a bit of power from Hinske.
Jimmy
March 13th, 2012
10:54 am
You know, if we had traded Prado for a true LF, we’d really be in a mess right now.
Jeff R
March 13th, 2012
10:56 am
“It’s not all doom and gloom for me yet. But it is a little darker with the Chipper news.”
Look, Chipper will likely play for the Braves this season. The question is: “How many games?” And: “How will Chipper produce in the games he plays?”
Also: “Does Prado rebound offensively?” If so, Chipper’s and Prado’s combined numbers at third could be quite good. And if Prado plays more at third (as now anticipated), the Braves benefit from better defense there.
richbrave
March 13th, 2012
10:56 am
I must say CHIPPER’s comments were quite surprising coming from him. If he feels that way, this will be a long season because it’s still his team. As he goes with the offense, and as HUDDY goes with the defense, so go the BRAVES this year. This may be the transition year to a new club identity with the last remnants of the 14-year win streak finally in the rear-view at the end.
Jimmy
March 13th, 2012
10:58 am
Isn’t Johnny Damon still out there?
abeeewright
March 13th, 2012
10:59 am
Blog is dead this morning. Maybe I’ll coin some phrases …
Negative Nellie … these folks hope the Braves will lose so that everyone can be as miserable as they are.
Dreary Weary … these folks want the Braves to win, but, when they don’t, want everyone to be as miserable as they are.
WLBB … these folks want someone else to take responsibility for making their lives tolerable.
Pollyanna … these folks cannot see anything wrong with their team, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Kook Aid Drinkers (thanks to cabravesfan) … these folks are just bat sh!t crazy.
JoeFan
March 13th, 2012
10:59 am
Braves need to go all out in the rebuilding process in 2012. Make the trades that will net top shelf outfielders and if that means trading McCann and /or Bourn then so be it. Go ahead and bite the bullet and play Simmons at SS and Bethancourt at C. Play Joey T. at 3B and lets be done with trying to convince fans this is a competitive as constructed.
Jeff R
March 13th, 2012
10:59 am
beekay, if Heyward bombs through the spring (there’s still a lot of spring training to go, mind you), I think Wren would seriously consider dropping Heyward down to Gwinnett, whatever the complications for the Atlanta lineup. Wren made it really clear after last season that he expects Heyward to start producing, so, I think, Wren’s patience is fairly limited.
richbrave
March 13th, 2012
10:59 am
Murph
March 13th, 2012
11:03 am
One thing I have decided, just now, is that I’m no longer going to refer to Heyward as “JHey”… I still believe in the kid, but I think he needs to earn his nickname back.
With the news that Chipper isn’t likely to be in the lineup much this season is Heyward going to elevate his game, or crumble under the added pressure?
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:03 am
Johnny Damon still out there? Really? Who cares?
Jimmy
March 13th, 2012
11:06 am
Jeff R – I guess my concern is that when Chipper is in, will he produce..or at what level.
We won’t see 100 games from him this year. That is a major concern for me. Yeah, slide Prado to third, and platoon LF, but that is an overall downgrade from what we (or I) thought we’d have.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:09 am
abeee – What does WLBB stand for?
I would add – Haters and Whiners – People who hope the Braves lose, so they can say “I told you so” to everyone else.
beekay
March 13th, 2012
11:09 am
Jeff
If that were to happen and Prado ends up playing 3b for Chipper more often, what would your starting outfield projection be? Bourn in CF and….
Jimmy
March 13th, 2012
11:11 am
raleigh – So you aren’t a big Damon fan?
I was thinking LF possibilities.
VaBravesFan
March 13th, 2012
11:12 am
Wow, there really taking this spring training slump to the extreme
Rival executives believe Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez may already be on ‘probation,’ Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports writes. Last year’s team lost its grip on a playoff spot down the stretch under Gonzalez, who’s now entering his second season as Atlanta’s manager. Here are the rest of Rosenthal’s notes from around the Major Leagues…
Special assistant Jim Fregosi may be the Braves’ leading candidate to manage should they replace Gonzalez internally.
Efrim
March 13th, 2012
11:14 am
I mean, is it really that bad? Here is an observation from Buster Olney’s blog this morning:
The Atlanta Braves don’t look much different than the club that collapsed last September.
Spring training stats should never be taken at face value, especially wins and losses. But the Braves are 1-10 in the Grapefruit League, ace Tim Hudson is out indefinitely, and some of the hitters who need to succeed are not. Chipper Jones isn’t feeling great this spring, and he mused to David O’Brien about the possibility he won’t be able to make it through the season. The Braves’ hope is that Tyler Pastornicky could be OK offensively, but so far, he’s 3-for-26. Jason Heyward is 4-for-24 with one extra-base hit and eight strikeouts, and the early chorus from scouts is concern about whether Heyward’s mechanical adjustments will work, or if he will need a lot more time.
There is a silver lining: Martin Prado has hit well.
Trader Jack
March 13th, 2012
11:16 am
With the news that Chipper isn’t likely to be in the lineup much this season is Heyward going to elevate his game, or crumble under the added pressure?
Spot on Murph – I think we’ll find out what Heyward really is made of.
Lew
March 13th, 2012
11:17 am
Rival executives? Who cares? You think Wren – maybe the tightest lipped GM there is – is out there talking to them?
I’m doubting Fredi’s on the edge here – at least not until after a very bad season.
Jeff R
March 13th, 2012
11:17 am
beekay… very hard to say. I think it would depend on Heyward rebounding at Gwinnett. If Wren sent Heyward down, does Heyward start to perform well enough for a quicker return to Atlanta? Again, we don’t know that Heyward won’t start hitting here shortly. LF might prove the real challenge with Prado at third (most times).
ncscoots
March 13th, 2012
11:18 am
Spring training stats should never be taken at face value, especially wins and losses. But
There is no “but” in spring training baseball.
Lew
March 13th, 2012
11:19 am
“Spring Training stats should never be taken at face value, especially wins and losses.”
Buster should have stopped there.
VaBravesFan
March 13th, 2012
11:19 am
Jason Heyward is the key. Really hope it clicks for him soon.
kenhotlanta
March 13th, 2012
11:22 am
Lew @ 9:50:
…’69 was a lot more fun, my friend.
cabravesfan
March 13th, 2012
11:23 am
“rival executives believe Fredi may be on probation…”
This is called arumor. Rumors are not facts.
VaBravesFan
March 13th, 2012
11:24 am
I was just posting what I read on MLBTR folks, thats all.
kenhotlanta
March 13th, 2012
11:26 am
VaBravesFan: “Yeah, but Simmons isn’t Furcal”; We don’t know that yet…the kid hasn’t played enough games or batted against too many regular major league pitchers.
cabravesfan
March 13th, 2012
11:26 am
Vabravesfan-
I know! That wasn’t meant to be directed at you – sorry if it seemed that way!
Lew
March 13th, 2012
11:29 am
ken – Yeah, it was.
Efrim
March 13th, 2012
11:30 am
I’m more concerned with what the “scouts are seeing”, as Olney wrote a few days prior. Elaborating on a comment like that would of helped. I guess Heyward may take some more time to adjust and if Chipper can only play 2 or 3 times a week than it’s an issue.
Where is TenneseePaul at? He stated over and over that Wren needed to go get an outfielder. Looks like he really, really needs one if Prado is playing tons of 3rd base and Heyward may start the season in Gwinnett.
Been away for a while and I’m hoping things are golden by April 5th. Go Braves!!
Murph
March 13th, 2012
11:30 am
There is no “but” in spring training baseball.
It’s getting harder to tell myself that what’s happening right now doesn’t matter, that it’s where people are at around the end of March that matters…. sooner or later guys are going to have to stop tinkering and play like it matters, otherwise what good is ST?
Gotta practice getting hits instead of popping out to 3rd… eventually… right?
Jeff R
March 13th, 2012
11:30 am
If anyone’s on probation, it would be Wren… he built the club (with a helping hand from the executive suite). But, yes, the manager goes first when things go bad. BUT… it’s spring training. All the doom and gloom about the Braves is incredibly premature.
noleee
March 13th, 2012
11:35 am
Que Será Será
noleee
March 13th, 2012
11:35 am
Wren is NOT on probation
VaBravesFan
March 13th, 2012
11:38 am
Jeff R
Wren might have built the team, but he has a boss too, he wasn’t given any financial flexibility to work with. Wren wanted to find a stop gap Shortstop the free agents were too expensive and he couldn’t find a trade partner, He obviously tried to add a outfielder, but he wasn’t gonna give up our top prospects. It comes down to money. We couldn’t even add a real solid bench player who can be counted on to fill in alot.
Disco Stew
March 13th, 2012
11:38 am
Buster and Rosenthal spend more time analyzing this stuff than most. Anyone who is not concerned about the overall poor play and lack of hitting apart from Prado is kidding themselves.
Fredi will be fire this year if the miss the playoffs and may be canned by the summer if they start very poorly.
Wren has no loyalty in him. He is cheap and or forced to be cheap by Liberty but he is not loyal.
His own job is on the line here at some point and he is not going to let Fredi drag him down should he decide Fredi is part of the problem.
The Lowe deal killed this team or what was left of Chipper’s career. It prevent Wren from being able to add the one more bat the team always seems to need.
Now Chipper is struggling in the first two weeks of ST practice and Wren have 1.50 to spend on coffee.
Disco Stew
March 13th, 2012
11:41 am
wow massive amt of typos. sorry about that – on cell.
George
March 13th, 2012
11:42 am
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
10:44 am
George @10:35 – 30 or 40 wins.
George @10:41 – 81-84 wins.
Am I confused, or did you magically change your mind in 6 minutes?
**********************************************************************************
My 30 or 40 wins was sort of in jest, it was based on a 1-10 record projected to 15-147 over full season. No team can be that bad so I said 30 or 40 wins. I do think they can win 81 to 84 games because of a pitching staff that could be very good. the problem is when you get past MARTIN, BRIAN, and FREDDY the regulars are not very good.
ncscoots
March 13th, 2012
11:42 am
Gotta practice getting hits instead of popping out to 3rd… eventually… right?
The difference in the swings that produces each of these occurrences is about an eighth of an inch in swing plane or a tenth of a second in swing timing. Making corrections in either flaw is the reason for ST, in the first place. Not winning games, or accruing good slash lines.
What is it about that that people don’t get?
Lew
March 13th, 2012
11:43 am
Yet another of the clueless makes his mark.
Lew
March 13th, 2012
11:44 am
Cause it’s all about Wren’s loyalty, right?
haggard
March 13th, 2012
11:45 am
Happy Birthday Tom O’Hawke !
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:45 am
March 1969…different world…getting ready to graduate from HS, my whole life ahead of me. I could not imagine what has happend since…some good, some bad…most unexpected. Life is an adventure.
VaBravesFan
March 13th, 2012
11:45 am
Wren has kept our young talent intact, we have 25 million coming off the books, If Chipper’s health doesn’t improve make that almost 40 million coming off the books. With the young talent and loaded pitching and alot of money the Braves are in a good position. If they do struggle in 2012 and we become sellers we’d be able to possibly unload high would-be salaries in 2013 for prospects before the deadline. Regardless I think Wren has put us in a good position with the resources he has to work with.
George
March 13th, 2012
11:47 am
Is tomorrows game on FOX SPORTS SOUTH?
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:49 am
scoots – People believe what they want to believe, fact based or not.
Murph
March 13th, 2012
11:50 am
What is it about that that people don’t get?
So…. when do the corrections start getting made? Do they typically like to reproduce the same flaw for a few weeks before fixing it, just to make sure they are correcting the right flaw?
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:50 am
George @11:42 Regulars are not playing very well…I’m not ready to say they are not very good.
Venice Jim
March 13th, 2012
11:51 am
haggard – confusing Tom with cab?
haggard
March 13th, 2012
11:51 am
March 1969 My oldest brother was preparing to graduate from East Atlanta High, had drawn a number that had him all but certain of being drafted, and the tension present in our household was major until that possibility passed. March 1969 was also the first time I purchased a copy of Street and Smith’s Baseball Yearbook.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:53 am
Murph – I understand the frustrations, but habits are hard to break, and corrections take time and work (as with everything, it is easier for some than with others). You can’t snap your fingures and all of a sudden make things work.
haggard
March 13th, 2012
11:53 am
Venice Jim
You know, I may be. There was talk of birthdays the other night when you guys were on board and I asked O’Hawke, “When’s the big day?”. He replied, “March 13, haggard”, and may indeed have been referring to your beloved.
So, Happy Birthday cab!!!!!!!!
haggard
March 13th, 2012
11:55 am
Venice Jim
What’s in store for the youngster? Any chocolate covered strawberries?
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
11:56 am
My draft lottery # was 26. Thank goodness for the old college deferment…Viet Nam almost over by 1973 when I graduated. Post draft generation has no concept.
Venice Jim
March 13th, 2012
11:56 am
haggard – we had dinner out in Vegas last night – today brings the trip back to LA…
She says “Thanks!”
noleee
March 13th, 2012
11:57 am
I thought we were having some hail, but on further observation I see it is actually pieces of sky falling all around.
Don
March 13th, 2012
12:00 pm
Why are people calling Heyward’s Spring performance a slump?
What basis was there for thinking that he was going to produce even good enough to be a fourth or fifth major league outfielder. Once the major league pitchers adjusted to him last season, he showed no signs of being able to adjust and be productive.
If he is having problems against Spring Training pitching, what will it be like when the regular season begins.
Of course, there is the posibiliy that the new hitting coaches might cause some improvement – but so far it does not look promising.
The big, big question is — Is Fredi enough of a Booby Cox clone – that he will go on and continue to play him no matter what??????
Murph
March 13th, 2012
12:00 pm
raleigh, I know, I’m just giving scoots a hard time. Like I said earlier, I still believe in Heyward. I mean….. what choice do I have? If I don’t believe in him then I might as well throw in the towel myself, because he’s going to play a HUGE part in this offense, for better or worse.
I’m not a doomsday guy. Even if the Braves suck, I’m looking for positives to come out of it, like maybe Simmons/Delgado/Teheran getting more and more playing time and improving on their already bright futures.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:01 pm
I root for the Braves. I support the Braves. I love the Braves. It means a lot to me for the Braves to win.
My joy in life does not depend on the Braves winning. If yours does, you may need to get a real life.
noleee
March 13th, 2012
12:01 pm
Haters hate, that’s what they do best.
Murph
March 13th, 2012
12:01 pm
The big, big question is — Is Fredi enough of a Booby Cox clone – that he will go on and continue to play him no matter what??????
Ummmmm… Constanza ‘11. Enough said.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:02 pm
Murph @12:00 –
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:04 pm
Heyward will be fine…I know this because Don has declaired him a bust.
George
March 13th, 2012
12:06 pm
Yup, game is on FOX SOUTH tommorrow night. Should be fun hearing CHIP trying to explain away spring training.
David O'Brien
March 13th, 2012
12:09 pm
Well, the fish tacos (mahi-mahi, grilled) at Roger Dean Stadium ain’t bad. For $8.
ncscoots
March 13th, 2012
12:09 pm
raleigh, I know, I’m just giving scoots a hard time.
Unbeknownst to you, I have a direct line to the 4-year-old and I have bribed her sufficiently that you might want to tread carefully with me, good buddy.
Lew
March 13th, 2012
12:12 pm
raleighbraves – My lottery number was 363. Didn’t need the deferment. Not a snowball’s chance in hell I was going to be drafted. Good thing, too. I would NOT have done well.
Bernie
March 13th, 2012
12:13 pm
Way to go Mr. Wrenn. Just sit back and watch your team lose early this year because they can’t hit period.
Veer
March 13th, 2012
12:13 pm
It would be a blessing in disguise if braves start out slow and fall out of contention so that way we can start rebuilding.
We need to trade Mac this year and get a bounty for him because as it is we wont be able to resign him. Bethancourt will be good in future.
We need to trade Heyward and Jurrjens this year as well.
Our biggest weakness is starting pitching.
We have no pitching.
Beachy was a one year wonder
Hanson is finished with his new arm delivery
Hudson is old and wont be fit for the reason
Minor is the only reliable pitcher we have
Jurrjens a big time bust.
Delgado and Teheran big time busts
ncscoots
March 13th, 2012
12:15 pm
Our biggest weakness is starting pitching.
This is why I like to read posts from veer, LOL.
abeeewright
March 13th, 2012
12:18 pm
WLBB = Whiny Little Beyatch Brigade
Zing
March 13th, 2012
12:18 pm
Minor is the only reliable pitcher? Because he’s pitched okay in the first 2 ST games? Dude…
Lew
March 13th, 2012
12:19 pm
Veer – You’re still and idiot.
BravePack
March 13th, 2012
12:21 pm
See leave it to DOB to put something positive in the dreary blog…the Mahi tacos are good. Life is not all bad in Braves world. I’m not going to give up on this team even if they win 1 game the rest of ST.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:22 pm
Lew – I would have gone if called, but I would have been a poor soldier.
Murph
March 13th, 2012
12:25 pm
Why am I the only one who gets it? It’s not the players or the coaches… it’s those damn new uniforms that they have yet to wear!
Burn ‘em! Burn ‘em all!
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:26 pm
Veer – You couldn’t be that big a moron, so you must just be a trouble maker.
Trader Jack
March 13th, 2012
12:27 pm
March 1969 – Graduating and moving on to grad school. I remember the funerals, two friends coming home in body bags, and a couple more from overdoses. Strange times indeed.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:27 pm
Murph – And those ugly red ones caused the collapse in September. You may be on to something. (actually, I think I like the new unis).
noleee
March 13th, 2012
12:30 pm
Don’t be dissin’ my red unis
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:30 pm
TJ – Yeah, Viet Nam killed over 50,000, and messed up even more young lives. 2nd most useless, unjustified war in US history.
Scot
March 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
Call me crazy, but in the picture above, Chipper looks fat. He needs to drop 20 lbs to take the load off his knees.
Scot
March 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
Call me crazy, but in the picture above, Chipper looks fat. He needs to drop 20 lbs to take the load off his knees.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:31 pm
noleee – If you like them….well, OK. Not my taste.
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:32 pm
Here we go with “picture makes Chipper look fat” stuff again.
Monty
March 13th, 2012
12:33 pm
I usually don’t put much stock into what happens in ST. ST for me has been over the years more about watching the young guys who are trying to make a name for themselves, the Heywards, the Schafers, trying to earn a spot onto the roster, or a rookie pitcher winning a spot(Brandon Beachy last year). I can’t tell you any of the Braves past ST records. ST was more interesting in the past for me hearing about some of the golf outings when the Big 3 were here. In the past if Chipper or Crime Dog or Sheffield didn’t hit so well, big freaking deal. But this team has me worried, especially after the “Collapse.” Is what’s happening so far this ST some anomally or does it have roots in September of last season? Time will tell. But I think even the most optimist among us have to admit this ST seems pretty wierd. Every day seems like groundhog day, just like coming down the wire in Sept. when every optimist on here was saying “No way we don’t make the playoffs”, but we didn’t.
abeeewright
March 13th, 2012
12:33 pm
raleighbravefan, March 13th, 2012, 12:30 pm … “2nd most useless, unjustified war in US history. “
What’s number 1? Spanish-American War? War of 1812? Don’t leave us hanging.
Trader Jack
March 13th, 2012
12:34 pm
raleighbravefan
March 13th, 2012
12:30 pm
TJ – Yeah, Viet Nam killed over 50,000, and messed up even more young lives. 2nd most useless, unjustified war in US history.
Yep – the ones that came home, the stories they told, after getting really drunk, are pretty horrific