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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,462 comments Add your comment
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
February 1st, 2012
10:08 am
Boo!
Murph
February 1st, 2012
10:10 am
I second what Lew said… moving Teheran, Delgado, and/or Vizcaino to the pen would be a huge mistake IMO.
They are starters, all 3 of them. The bullpen is chock full of live arms, especially with Medlen being there the full season.
There’s just no reason to have any one of the 3 in there.
Daybed Wagmoe
February 1st, 2012
10:17 am
Buster Olney has some stuff about Chipper in his blog today, but I don’t have ESPN Insider. Would someone who does mind copying and pasting? Please?
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
10:25 am
What do you think of Fredi’s idea to put Delgado and Teheran in the pen?
Hate it. I get the concept of having the best pitchers possible on the 25-man roster, but what benefit is there for these three guys to be pitching out of the pen? I guess I understand Vizcaino pitching out of there given that his FB/CB is so nasty that it would play up even more in short stints – and he has better command than Teheran or Delgado with those two pitches. But I’m okay with Viz starting the season in Gwinnett – of course I am…
Get that kid starters innings!
Anyway…as BAS said yesterday, I’m not sure Fredi is being 100% serious. I mean, Wren can’t agree with such things. And honestly, what more does Mike Minor have to learn in Gwinnett? Why is he on this team then? He’s turning 25 years old for crying out loud and you drafted him #7 overall three years ago so he’d be ready and he is. He should absolutely be the 5th starter coming out of camp and log the most major league innings out of the three this year. I get the competition aspect, but Minor really should be in the rotation over Teheran or Delgado.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
10:28 am
The bullpen is chock full of live arms, especially with Medlen being there the full season.
I agree, but the issue is that none of them are as good as Vizcaino. But if Fredi isn’t going to use him correctly in high leverage situations than there is no reason to have him in Atlanta. Have the Big 3 in Gwinnett and let em loose down there.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
10:29 am
Fredi has a history of saying dumb things, not because of some kind of strategy, but because he just says dumb things.
I’m going to chalk up his starters-in-the-bullpen comment yesterday to him saying something dumb again and move on.
No way Wren will allow the team’s future 1-2-3 pitchers to rot away in the bullpen.
McFann O O o
February 1st, 2012
10:29 am
Jeepers! Who knew so many people hated ketchup on hotdogs?…
Lew
February 1st, 2012
10:46 am
So Fredi’s comments at the batting cage are roughly the equivcalent of a Bobby Cox post game press conference – whatever he says is merely because he was asked a question and is not to be thought of as serious, or bearing any resemblance to reality?
Lew
February 1st, 2012
10:47 am
Kind of along the lines of “reitsma only threw one bad pitch (which was hit for a game winning Grand Slam).
Murph
February 1st, 2012
10:52 am
See Fredi’s end-of-season remarks regarding Parrish….
RC
February 1st, 2012
10:53 am
Daybed,
This is all I saw about Chipper in Buster’s blog:
Chipper Jones says 2012 might not be his last season.
Here are Jones’ all-time rankings:
Hits: 2,615 (75th)
Runs: 1,561 (53th)
Doubles: 526 (36th)
Home runs: 454 (33rd)
RBIs: 1,561 (40th)
RC
February 1st, 2012
10:54 am
And the words “last season” linked to DOB’s blog post about Chipper from last night.
Lew
February 1st, 2012
10:55 am
That’s pretty far up the list of a whole lot of players who have played in MLB – around the top fifty all time players. Quite a career.
Venice Jim
February 1st, 2012
10:58 am
Richie Justice with his take on where the Braves stand:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120131&content_id=26532892&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
11:03 am
I agree that the Big Three need to be starting, unless there are needs at the Major League level for three right-handed relievers. The bullpen is already outstanding, so no need for all the young starters to go to the bullpen in the majors this season.
However, to defend Fredi, I suspect he may have been responding to a question and possibly trying to get the point across that these guys are ready for the majors, and he wasn’t thinking through the whole roster-construction process. That’s not his job.
Part of his job is to pump up players. Also, he’s doing his part to try to increase the perceived value of these pitchers. You never know when a trade opportunity might crop up that would be favorable to the Braves. There are a number of reasons to pump up players and make it clear to other teams that the Braves see these three as Major League ready right now.
Now, I’m not saying Fredi should or shouldn’t have said that all three could be bullpen options. I suppose I prefer honestly and awareness that these guys need to hone their skills and repertoires as starters in the minors. But what is the real harm in what he said? I think people are just reading too much into it. And I suspect he meant any of the three instead of all three.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
11:14 am
Again, I chalk it up to Fredi saying things without really thinking about them. Fredi is as Fredi does.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
11:18 am
So Fredi’s comments at the batting cage are roughly the equivcalent of a Bobby Cox post game press conference – whatever he says is merely because he was asked a question and is not to be thought of as serious, or bearing any resemblance to reality?
I believe him that Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Medlen and Martinez are locks for the pen. Medlen in the #4 spot hopefully getting high leverage work so that O’Ventbrel doesn’t break down by August. And I believe him that C-Mart will most likely have a spot as the long man. #5 and #6 spots are up for grabs between Viz, Varvaro, Hoover, etc. I just can’t see them really following through with giving those spots to Teheran or Delgado. Doesn’t make sense enough for me to believe.
Lew
February 1st, 2012
11:21 am
Efrim – I can’t see it either. Just makes no sense whatsoever. If they don’t make the rotation, then send them to Gwinnett. It certainly won’t hurt them and if the past is any guide, they’ll need seven starters before all is said and done.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
11:24 am
Shaun, I agree with your 11:03. Well said.
Rob from SC
February 1st, 2012
11:35 am
Regardless of how talented Teheran and Delgado are, they could stand to spend at least half of the season in Triple A. They both have very good Fastball/Changeup combo’s… but they both need to work on their breaking balls. Teheran could also improve his overall command. Love them both, but they are young and can always use AAA to develop.
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
11:35 am
Fredi bunting too often or Fredi automatically going with O’Flaherty, Venters, then Kimbrel in the 7th, 8th and 9th when the lead is 3 runs or less, using relievers in strict roles based on inning and score more so than based on leverage and match-ups is a bigger concern than what Fredi might say about which players have a shot at making the team in roles that might not be perfectly ideal.
But even using O’Flaherty-Venters-Kimbrel, in that order, in a very automated fashion, in the 7th-8th-9th, without much regard to leverage or match-ups isn’t a huge concern because most managers, in this era, use their bullpens in this odd way. So Fredi using his ‘pen in this way isn’t likely to cost the Braves that much relative to other teams.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
11:40 am
There’s a lot of guys in the International League that are hoping Teheran, Delgado, and Vizcaino are on the Braves’ roster… facing those 3 back to back to back won’t be fun.
Look out Durham Bulls, the Gwinnett Braves are comin’ for ya!
DAP
February 1st, 2012
11:40 am
i like ketchup on hot dogs. if i dont have access to chili and cheese, its ketchup and mustard on mine.
McFann O O o
February 1st, 2012
11:44 am
DAP—
Yes! Good for you…
Murph
February 1st, 2012
11:53 am
I like my hot dogs Chicago style… and no self-respecting Chicagoan puts ketchup on their dog.
Mustard, relish, freshly chopped onions, sliced red tomatoes, kosher pickle and peppers… now that’s a hot dog!
Lew
February 1st, 2012
12:07 pm
Never saw the sense in adding all that stuff to a hot dog when it all usually ends up on my shirt.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
February 1st, 2012
12:10 pm
I wonder now if the Braves start stepping up to the Nats and Fish since they’ve improved their teams and could actually be threat.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
12:19 pm
Hot dogs are pretty much the only thing I miss about living in Chicago… there’s a chain of restaurants up there called Portillos that does nothing but hot dogs. Good, good stuff. The hot dogs at Wrigley (Vienna Beef) were the best, too.
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
12:19 pm
ChattTownBrian, well, the Fish have a long way to jump. They lost 90 games last season. They lost 82 the year before. At best, I think they are a little over .500. Maybe if they get lucky and win a lot of close games, they’ll be in the mid-to-high-80’s in wins.
The Nats look something like an 85-win team if things come together this year. I think it’s more likely that they are just under that, somewhere around .500 or slightly better. I think 2013 or 2014 is going to be their breakthrough.
I think the Nats are in good shape for the next 5 years or so, like the Braves, perhaps better. They certainly have more high-upside talent while the Braves’ strength will likely be pitching depth. The Marlins are not in that position.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
12:20 pm
self-respecting Chicagoan
somebody’s got to do it. :- )
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
February 1st, 2012
12:20 pm
Wren is right on having Bourn a full season making a difference. No more Schafer//Constanza projects out there. Got you a true leadoff guy from the get go.
Believe it or not I’m actually worried more about our starters than anything. The offense should be fine. Redhead and JJ to go with Hudson, your ace, are health worries. That ain’t good
Tomahawkin (The Godfather)
February 1st, 2012
12:21 pm
I’m so glad that there is No More Schafer Talk on here!
Murph
February 1st, 2012
12:23 pm
Do you think there’s any Schafer talk on the Astros’ forum? For some reason I don’t think they care much about him…
DAP
February 1st, 2012
12:23 pm
for me, thats just a hot dog. now, if i have an italian sausage dog at the fair, its sauteed onions. the only time i eat onions really. i figure, im gonna throw up anyway, at the fair.
also, bratwurst is eaten plain, in brotchen. i lived in Germany for awhile and there is nothing like that white bratwurst in fresh brotchen.
sauerkraut is terrible. cant believe anyone eats that stuff.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
February 1st, 2012
12:25 pm
Shaun, Reyes and Bell make huge impacts for them. To be honest I don’t know much about Buehrle other than a vet who has a few no hitters in his career. Johnson is great which everybody knows. His health is in question I think. Their lineup is really good.
detroitchris
February 1st, 2012
12:26 pm
DOB,
With you spending a lot of time in Orlando, any advice for someone considering moving down there from Detroit for work?
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
12:27 pm
I actually like Schafer as a long-term reclamation project for the Astros. His definitely displayed the tools to succeed before and it’s easy to forget how young he is. I think a good portion of his problems are related to him being healthy and getting reps against pro pitching.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
12:32 pm
What’s brotchen?
Murph
February 1st, 2012
12:34 pm
I think a good portion of his problems are related to him being healthy and getting reps against pro pitching.
That and his pot peanut butter cup training regimen.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
12:35 pm
chatttownbraves Reyes and Bell make huge impacts for them.
reyes, yes. but bell doesnt make any difference unless the starting pitching is much better. MUCH better.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
12:39 pm
murph, brotchen is a German roll. heres a pic:
http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Rash/blue/images/brotchen.jpg
heres a pic with a bratwurst in brotchen:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PKcaJ-u2J9M/Ti6xub-76XI/AAAAAAAAArs/5HokDS96BlU/s1600/P1060543.JPG
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
February 1st, 2012
12:43 pm
DAP, yeah but their lineup with Ramirez, Stanton, Morrison, Sanchez and now Reyes should help the SP quite a bit, which in turn should give Bell plenty of opportunities.
Don’t get me wrong, I think we’re still better than both WSH and FLA, but it’s going to be tougher on us for sure.
McFann O O o
February 1st, 2012
12:43 pm
Murph and no self-respecting Chicagoan puts ketchup on their dog.
Further proof that, in fact, I’m not from Chicago…
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
February 1st, 2012
12:43 pm
DAP, yeah but their lineup with Ramirez, Stanton, Morrison, Sanchez and now Reyes should help the SP quite a bit, which in turn should give Bell plenty of opportunities.
Don’t get me wrong, I think we’re still better than both WSH and FLA, but it’s going to be tougher on us for sure.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
12:46 pm
DAP, are brotchen hard rolls or soft?
The one thing that bothered me about “Chicago style” hot dogs… poppy seeds on the buns. I don’t understand poppy seeds. You can’t really taste them. It’s like their entire purpose of existence is to get stuck in your teeth and make you look gross when you smile.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
12:52 pm
chatttownbrave yeah but their lineup with Ramirez, Stanton, Morrison, Sanchez and now Reyes should help the SP quite a bit, which in turn should give Bell plenty of opportunities.
eh, im not sure. marlins only scored 625 runs last season. reyes helps, but not enough to offset the 705 runs surrendered. nothing will matter with the marlins unless the SP is better, which it might be.
burhle plus a healthy josh johnson could turn that team around. im just saying, if the team gets turned around, it will be starting pitching more than anything.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
12:53 pm
murph are brotchen hard rolls or soft?
The one thing that bothered me about “Chicago style” hot dogs… poppy seeds on the buns.
they are hard.
poppy seed buns…an invention of the polish. (i guess, since its chicago)
Tomahawkin (The Godfather)
February 1st, 2012
12:56 pm
detroitchris
February 1st, 2012
12:26 pm
DOB,
“With you spending a lot of time in Orlando, any advice for someone considering moving down there from Detroit for work?”
I’m not some Rocket-Ship or Something? But you will be guranteed to see a lot of expensive Toll Roads as well as a lot of M.I.L.F.s down there
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:12 pm
I actually like the Marlins more than the Nationals this year – however that is all dependent on Josh Johnson being healthy and Hanley getting back to career form. I just think the Nationals holes in CF, SS, and 1B are too much for them to compete with the Braves. And that back end of the rotation is John Lannan and Wang. Not to mention Strasburg is limited to 160 innings. How’s that going to work out in September? And they traded away their starting pitching depth to get Gio.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
1:14 pm
Is Werth in CF really considered a “hole” for the Nats?
DAP
February 1st, 2012
1:20 pm
murph, werth plays RF.
cabravesfan
February 1st, 2012
1:24 pm
DAP-
I think the Nats want Bryce Harper to play RF, don’t they?
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:25 pm
Is Werth in CF really considered a “hole” for the Nats?
They have 68 year old Mike Cameron penciled in for that role with Roger Bernadina backing him up. I don’t buy that Rizzo would agree to have Harper in RF to star the year. That’s rushing him and putting him in a terrible spot. Ian Desmond isn’t very good and Adam LaRoche hasn’t played in a year and is coming off of major shoulder surgery. The Nats time is in 2013 – I think Rizzo knows this. Picture Michael Bourn in CF, Werth in LF, Harper in RF, Zimmerman at 3B, Espinosa at SS, Anthony Rendon at 2B, Mike Morse at 1B, Wilson Ramos at C. They could be legit contenders for the World Series in 2013 barring injuries to their pitchers.
richbrave
February 1st, 2012
1:30 pm
Time.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
1:34 pm
I’d bet a whole dollar, that’s right, $1, that Harper is playing RF for the Nats this season.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:36 pm
“I think for five months, we saw what kind of team we really have,” Wren said. “We could still make an addition, but we’ve held back our resources. We’re good enough to let the 2012 season play out and have a better idea of where our needs are.” – Frank Wren
Man, next offseason is going to be fun. Lots of player movement.
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
1:36 pm
Reyes and Bell make huge impacts for them
Reyes will probably make an impact of a few wins. Bell is a one-inning reliever that is mostly going to come in when the team already has a lead and has a very good chance to win anyway. I’m not saying he isn’t an upgrade but hard for him to make a huge impact.
The Marlin still have to find a way to add something like 18-20 wins in order to keep pace with what the Braves are likely to do.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:37 pm
I’d bet a whole dollar, that’s right, $1, that Harper is playing RF for the Nats this season.
Probably around July 1st. I’d agree with that. Keep his service time down – but there is no way they are starting him in RF on opening day.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:40 pm
The Marlin still have to find a way to add something like 18-20 wins in order to keep pace with what the Braves are likely to do.
I don’t like looking at last seasons win total. They didn’t have Josh Johnson for the entire season and Hanley was hurt for most of the year. Add those two, plus Reyes, Buerhle and Bell. It’s a lot better than 72 wins. Probably low-80’s, at worst, imo.
Murph
February 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
I agree about Harper… he’ll start off in AAA. It’ll be interesting to see how he does against Gwinnett and Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino down there.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:47 pm
I must say, I am warming to the idea that next offseason Andrew McCutchen will be put out onto the trade market and the Braves will hopefully be near the front of the line.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:50 pm
And I’m never for trading lots of prospects, but I’d pretty much back the truck up for Cutch. McCutchen, Heyward, Freeman, Uggla, McCann core would be pretty friggin dangerous.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:51 pm
And I’m never for trading lots of prospects, but I’d pretty much back the truck up for Cutch. McCutchen, Heyward, Freeman, Uggla, McCann core would be pretty friggin dangerous through 2015 when Heyward, Uggla and McCutchen’s contracts are up.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
1:51 pm
Whoops. Didn’t think it went through.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
1:52 pm
cabravesfanI think the Nats want Bryce Harper to play RF, don’t they?
maybe in AAA. he didnt even hit that well in AA last season. he has played some center field in A ball. im not sure where they will play him in the majors, when he gets here in 2013. :- )
tiger297
February 1st, 2012
1:52 pm
Lew – per your 12:07-
I love it when a conversation comes full circle. That is actually how the discussion began last night. Spilling stuff on my jersey
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
1:58 pm
I would guess Harper would be up sometime this season. I would guess he is still a long shot to open the season with the big club.
Another thing with the Marlins: I think Buehrle will more or less give them what Vazquez gave them in 2011, or maybe a very slight upgrade. Josh Johnson is obviously a big key to their season. Reyes will add a few wins, Bell may add a win or two. We should expect Hanley to bounce back.
I just don’t think they did enough. The 2009 team, with awesome seasons from Hanley and Johnson, they were essentially a .500 team (82-80 Pythagorean record). They are basically that team except with Jose Reyes added to the mix. I think that 2009 team and the 2012 team looks about the same, talent-wise, with the exception of the addition of Jose Reyes, essentially playing in place of Bonafacio and Wes Helms, circa 2009. You do the math and it puts them fairly close to 90 wins but I think they fall short; and that’s assuming a healthy, Cy-Young-contending Josh Johnson and Hanley returning to MVP form.
Don in TN
February 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
Hot Dogs? Mustard only please, with maybe a little pickle relish. Sauerkraut is great, but not on hot dogs. The best hot dogs I ever had were in about 1955 at Legion Field in Birmingham, Alabama. Our little league coach took our team from Decatur to see the Barons play.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
2:04 pm
shaun, some folks are expecting mike stanton to continue to build his resume, too. i dont think comparing them to 2009 is the way tog o, but i would look at their runs scored from last year. they scored 625 runs in 2011. how many more will reyes help them score, than the players he replaces? hard to say, but they gave up 705 runs, and since we know adding reyes wont add 80 runs, they are going to have to bring that runs surrendered total way down to be better than a .500 team. thats where the starting pitching comes in. at all comes down to johnson’s health, really.
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
2:11 pm
maybe in AAA. he didnt even hit that well in AA last season. he has played some center field in A ball. im not sure where they will play him in the majors, when he gets here in 2013. :- )
DAP, yeah, I think they’ll let him prove himself at least in Double-A, possibly Triple-A, in 2012, before they promote him to the majors. He did fine for an 18-year-old in his first 37 Double-A games. I think most likely he’s a late-season call-up. I’ve heard Goldstein and Parks, on the BP Up and In Podcast, mention Harper as a centerfield possibility early in his career.
cabravesfan
February 1st, 2012
2:16 pm
DAP-
I had seen something the other day – can’t remember if it was a Nats person or a reporter or what- say they wanted Harper to start in RF at the beginning of the year. I agree with you that he’s not ready, but that doesn’t mean they won’t try it…
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
2:23 pm
DAP, yeah, they could add quite a few runs, with Reyes, a bounce-back from Hanley, Stanton taking another step forward. I think you are right on about Johnson’s health being the key to their season. I think Bell will add very little. I think Buerhle basically just offsets the loss of Vazquez.
I would tend to go somewhere in between Cy Young contender and injury-plagued season for Johnson, if I were doing a projection for the purposes of, say, betting. So I’d say something like 85 wins is about right.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
shaun they could add quite a few runs, with Reyes, a bounce-back from Hanley, Stanton taking another step forward
do you think they add 80? i just dont think they can score 700 runs in 2012.
Shaun
February 1st, 2012
2:29 pm
DAP, yeah, I’d be surprised if they could jump to 700. Maybe if everything goes perfectly, I guess I wouldn’t be too shocked.
Ease
February 1st, 2012
2:33 pm
DAP, yeah,
Looks like fun…
Bayou Brave
February 1st, 2012
2:36 pm
DOB,
So did you ever get a better look at Freeman? Did he add some muscle this winter?
nolie
February 1st, 2012
2:44 pm
next offseason Andrew McCutchen will be put out onto the trade market and the Braves will hopefully be near the front of the line….Efrim
dream on ol’ buddy
RC
February 1st, 2012
2:45 pm
I would tend to go somewhere in between Cy Young contender and injury-plagued season for Johnson, if I were doing a projection for the purposes of, say, betting.
So pretty much the same type of projection you’d use for Jurrjens and Hanson?
Not that I think the Marlins will finish ahead of the Braves…I just find it funny that we are so quick to dismiss Johnson as injury prone yet ignore Jurrjens and Hanson’s histories. Especially Hanson since he’s got a similar upside to Johnson, and both of their injuries were shoulder related.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
2:50 pm
I’m generally not too up on what makes it into the projections, but so far it seems that
Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino (roughly in that order) are the top three pitching prospects in Atlanta’s system and that they project to something like top of the rotation starters (1 or 2).
Last season showed that they weren’t quite ready for those roles, if for no other reason than they cannot log 200 innings yet.
Given the quality of the Braves bullpen and the projection that Atlanta needs to get the Latin Trio ready to take over the top of the starting rotation, why on earth would you start their six year clocks ticking to have them sit on the bench in the bullpen while O’Ventbrel locks down all the high leverage innings?
That would be the single stupidest move that a franchise could make since The Babe got traded to finance “No No Nanette.”
abwright
February 1st, 2012
2:56 pm
Phillies look a little worse, Braves about the same, Nationals a bit better, Marlins a good bit better, Mets a bit worse.
Since the Braves in 2011 didn’t play the NL East particularly well, I think the improvements in the gNats and Marlins will affect Philly more significantly than Atlanta. That is, unless the Braves aren’t as good as they think they are, in which case, fourth place, here we come!
RC
February 1st, 2012
2:59 pm
abwright, great point at 2:50 pm. That’s one of the reasons I think that Fredi is just blowing smoke about Teheran and Delgado (that, and I think that at least one will start the season in the rotation while Hudson is slowly brought back to full speed). As for Vizcaino, I think that there is enough question about his upside as a starter that the Braves will be content to use him out of the bullpen for 2012. His stuff plays up there to great effect, and one of the issues the Braves faced last year is that there were too many “high leverage” innings for 3 pitchers to handle. With a team built upon pitching and little offense, the number of high leverage innings increase substantially, and Fredi needs to have more than 3 options in his pen that he trusts in those situations. By adding Viz and Medlen to the pen, he hypothetically could be up to 5 guys that can be trusted in those situations, and I personally think that Martinez is not far removed from that group. It’s a pretty nice situation to be in, especially considering the situation we were in last year.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
dream on ol’ buddy
I know.
Probably the longest of long shots. Plus, would Wren really trade all of the pitching depth he has tried so hard to hold onto? Maybe for Cutch, but even so, there are other teams in the league that could top what the Braves would be willing to do I’d think.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
On another note, Cardinals and Brewers have to be somewhat reduced having lost Pujols and Fielder respectively. This affects only about 24 games for the competitors in the NL East; however, some of those inter-division losses that fall to the Phillys/Braves/Nationals/Marlins will be picked up with wins against the Cardinals/Brewers (and presumably some of the other teams in the Central/West.
Pujols, Fielder -> AL
Buerhle, Gio Gonzalez -> NL
Advantage AL
DAP
February 1st, 2012
3:00 pm
abwright, it wouldnt be all that crazy, if not for the shut down bullpen already in place. gotta say, the braves pitching staff is looking really really good 1-12.
RC
February 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
Phillies look a little worse, Braves about the same, Nationals a bit better, Marlins a good bit better, Mets a bit worse.
I actually think the Nationals may have improved by more than the Marlins. The addition of Gonzalez and close to a full year of Strasburg is a really underrated improvement for that ballclub.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
abwright, good point at 2:50pm.
RC
February 1st, 2012
3:06 pm
Efrim,
While Cutch would be the PERFECT fit for the Braves, I don’t see Wren making a move that essentially puts an “end-date” on the window the Braves have to win, with all those contracts coming due at the same time. His MO, for better or worse, has been to settle for 90% of what he can currently put on the field in order to be able to compete in the future, instead of mortgaging the future for 100% on the field today. It’s not a terrible strategy, and for the long-term health of the ballclub is probably for the best, instead of going through the spending spree/firesale type of swings that a team like the Marlins has gone through in the past. It does always make it seem like they are holding back right when the marginal value of a win is at it’s highest though.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
3:08 pm
RC, February 1st, 2012, 2:59 pm … “I think that at least one [Latin trio member] will start the season in the rotation while Hudson is slowly brought back to full speed”
What a luxury for the Braves to have! Keep your “old man” on track to hit the season running two weeks in, while giving your “young guns” a couple of April starts to maximize those bullets, instead of “wasting” them at AAA.
RC, February 1st, 2012, 2:59 pm … “…I think that there is enough question about his [Vizcaino's] upside as a starter that the Braves will be content to use him out of the bullpen for 2012.”
This is the bit where I don’t have any way to judge. I heard early on that Viz was projected to be a top-of-the-rotation starter. I hadn’t heard anything to undermine that, other than the injury.
Unless Beachy and Minor keep taking steps forward, surely the Braves would want to slot the Latin Trio for as many years as possible once Huddy and Jurrjens reach the end of their Braves tenure.
If Viz is logging low leverage innings in the ‘pen, why use up those arb years?
David O'Brien
February 1st, 2012
3:12 pm
Couple of paragraphs from Buster’s ESPN.com column today. He went to Royals camp in Arizona and there were about 60 players, mostly minor leaguers but also some major leaguers already there working out:
“… the Royals appear completely invested in each other, for now, and you can see that in the way that Joakim Soria helps the younger players with their work, and the way that catcher Salvador Perez interacts with the others and talks about doing what he can to play in as many games as possible. Jeff Francoeur is not here yet, but he will be, and other players say that even if he hadn’t hit in 2011 — and he did, collecting 71 extra-base hits — he would have been worth whatever he was paid, for the way that he made the best days even more fun and the worst days tolerable.
Francoeur came up with the Atlanta Braves, as did Kansas City GM Dayton Moore, so it’s not a coincidence that the atmosphere around the team is full of respect and expectation and professionalism. As other players arrive in other camps, that won’t be universal for the 30 teams.”
David O'Brien
February 1st, 2012
3:14 pm
Bayou Brave: Hitters have been coming to the ballpark on Tuesday and Thursday. I’ll probably go up there tomorrow, so I’ll see Freeman then if he’s there and ask about his winter workouts.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
RC, February 1st, 2012, 3:01 pm … “I actually think the Nationals may have improved by more than the Marlins.”
And the Nationals were better last year.
Still, gNats were OK with run prevention last year but not too good on run production. They fixed something that was pretty good but didn’t do much for the thing that was not so good.
If Reyes can stay on the field and the clubhouse doesn’t explode with all those super-dense egos packed into a tiny space, Marlins may have made more productive additions. A moderately healthy J. Johnson certainly adds more to the Fish than Strasburg does to the gNats (for instance).
RC
February 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
abwright,
Many of the national writers who either are scouts or speak with scouts on a regular basis have expressed doubts as to whether or not Vizcaino’s frame will allow him to handle a starter’s workload at the major league level. His injury history is also a bit concerning when projecting him as a future big league starter, and it’s prevented him from building up his innings from year to year. Considering that he has excellent command of two above-average major league offerings (his fastball and curve), he already profiles as an excellent relief pitcher…much better than Teheran or Delgado would profile in the bullpen. Combining the Braves’ current opportunity to win now, their need for more pitchers that can be trusted in high leverage innings, and their wealth of young starters who profile as futuer #1 or #2 starters, it might actually make sense to “waste” Vizcaino in a relief role this year.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
3:16 pm
And (not) seriously …
If you look at the pitching in the NL East, is anyone going to score a run? Ever?
DAP
February 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
RC His MO, for better or worse, has been to settle for 90% of what he can currently put on the field in order to be able to compete in the future, instead of mortgaging the future for 100% on the field today
i think what might be good abot this, is in any given year, a few guys could explode with career years and we win the series. year after year, that remains a possibility. if you go for it and dont make it, the window closes.
at this moment, i feel like the braves have a wide window that will be open for several foreseeable seasons. a few moves each offseason and that window gets extended.
DAP
February 1st, 2012
3:19 pm
if huddy doesnt start the season with the club, id rather it be hanson, jurrjens, backy, minor, medlen. leave the young guns in AAA.
Efrim
February 1st, 2012
3:20 pm
While Cutch would be the PERFECT fit for the Braves, I don’t see Wren making a move that essentially puts an “end-date” on the window the Braves have to win, with all those contracts coming due at the same time
Agreed on your entire post. He won’t go all in like Doug Melvin with the Brewers did or Walt Jocketty with the Reds did. Plus, their teams are structured as such to where it made sense to do so, and the Braves roster is really not structured as so. It’s deep in pitching and players under the age of 25 – so making an all in move next winter doesn’t make as much sense as going 90% as you said.
David O'Brien
February 1st, 2012
3:24 pm
DOB,
“With you spending a lot of time in Orlando, any advice for someone considering moving down there from Detroit for work?”
Yes, make sure you visit the area first. And if at all possible, avoid living within an 8-10 mile radius of Disney.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
3:25 pm
RC, February 1st, 2012, 3:15 pm … “Many … scouts … have expressed doubts as to whether or not Vizcaino’s frame will allow him to handle a starter’s workload at the major league level. His injury history is also a bit concerning … and it’s prevented him from building up his innings from year to year.”
Entirely possible. Certainly on the build-up of innings thing, year-to-year.
However, putting him the ‘pen is not going to do anything towards building up his innings either or help develop another pitch or control or whatever else is holding him back.
I’m OK with Viz in the ‘pen. I would just hope that he doesn’t sit on the bench for the first half of the season while O’Ventbrel get over-used.
I guess I’m just having nightmare visions of Krodys O’Ventbrel getting used in every game to start the season, just to make sure they get their work in regardless of leverage. Then, when half the starters go down to injury after the All-star break, they have to start stretching out Medlen and Vizcaino to be starters.
abwright
February 1st, 2012
3:26 pm
David O’Brien, February 1st, 2012, 3:24 pm … “… if at all possible, avoid living within an 8-10 mile radius of Disney.”
Don’t they say the same thing for Chernobyl?
Random
February 1st, 2012
3:27 pm
@RC (January 31st, 2012 12:16 pm) —
Thanks, RC — my sentiments exactly.
I will comment further only if the ignoramus Coach so goads me.
Thanks again.