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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,462 comments Add your comment
brian
January 26th, 2012
12:42 pm
Mauer’s contract is awful. Fielder and Albert’s contracts are also awful. To have so much money committed to one player is insane in baseball, even if they are Albert.
SoWeGa Fanatic
January 26th, 2012
12:42 pm
Yadier Molina average = 118.
Jimmy
January 26th, 2012
12:43 pm
Got a few sparring matches going on today:
raleighbravefan vs. MFin04
DOB vs. Murph
Random vs. Murph
Shaun vs. “who shall ever”
Very entertaining.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:44 pm
Efrim – That’s all well and good…I’m just not going to give McCann a contract like Mauer, Werth, Crawford, etc when he becomes a free agent for a catcher with a .270 batting average and .820 OPS.
If the Braves do something like they did with Dan Uggla, (and what they should with Bourn) I’m all for keeping McCann around.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
12:45 pm
Murph, you know what a broadcasting company would probably do if the Braves “held out” for a better deal? They’d probably say “fine” and would let everyone know that the Braves want to breech the terms of their contract because they simply want more money, making the Braves look bad. The Braves need the broadcasting companies as much as the broadcasting companies need them. Broadcasting companies can make plenty of money putting something else on the air. The Braves would be shooting themselves in the foot as much as they’d be sticking it to a broadcasting company.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
12:47 pm
If McCann wants 120 million+, then obviously he isn’t sticking around – but I think he’ll sign for quite a bit less than that.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:47 pm
Pujols contract was deserved, I have no problem with it. He also got the Angels the gigantic TV deal, so its a win-win for the Angels and Pujols.
The Braves, on the other hand, can’t afford 1/3 of that kind of deal.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:48 pm
MFin04 – I have no direct knowledge of this, but I’m seriously doubting that Mac asks for a contract anywhere near Maurer’s or Crawford’s.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
12:49 pm
They cheated, broke Federal law and lied their augmented asses off.
Lew, that’s never been a concern for the Hall of Fame voters in the past, which is my whole point.
brian, I can understand players wanting to renegotiate in the NFL because the team has all the power. NFL player contracts are not guaranteed. MLB player contracts are guaranteed, which is why you never see MLB players hold out but you do see NFL players hold out.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:50 pm
“If McCann wants 120 million+, then obviously he isn’t sticking around – but I think he’ll sign for quite a bit less than that.”
If he wants that much, he can get it, especially from an AL team. That’s all I’m saying. McCann is great, but not great enough to warrant the contract he’d get in free agency. If he wants to stay with the Braves and become the next “Chipper Jones” face of the franchise for less money, then by all means, keep him.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:52 pm
Shaun – Rant on. Your Hot Dog defense is spurious, facetious and just plain freaking stupid. Period.
Murph
January 26th, 2012
12:53 pm
Got a few sparring matches going on today:
raleighbravefan vs. MFin04
DOB vs. Murph
Random vs. Murph
Shaun vs. “who shall ever”
Very entertaining.
I don’t get into sparring matches. Unlike many on here I just don’t care enough to go back and forth on a point that really doesn’t matter all that much to me. As for Random coming after me…. the guy chooses someone to go after daily because that’s how he grew up and doesn’t know any different. One day his dad chose to beat him, the next his sibling, the next his dog… it was random. I don’t hold it against him.
Anyone who thinks that a 25 year or 30 year deal, be it for concessions or TV or whatever, is 100% set in stone and cannot under any circumstances be renegotiated is silly. There is plenty that an unhappy side could do to get the other side to the table.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
12:54 pm
I’d remove the option year in 2013, and offer five years and 72.5 million. That’d take him through 2017. Maybe add a club option for 2018 with a buyout that got the total value to 75 million.
That’s pretty much the most I’d offer Mac.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:54 pm
And never in the past has the HOF voting community had so many transgressors that truly undermined the history of the sport. Unless they had to deny enshrinement for all the beer drinkers and hot dog eaters in MLB.
Like I said – really absurd argument.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 26th, 2012
12:55 pm
Since ya’ll seem bored, you do to me, how about:
“Who shot JFK”
Does this ever get old? No, it doesn’t. The most interesting situation, and while I’m not a big reader, I can read all about it and not get bored. Oswalt? Suuuure. Mafia? CIA? That’s where I lean towards.
Opinions? Gotta be one of you …
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:55 pm
“I have no direct knowledge of this, but I’m seriously doubting that Mac asks for a contract anywhere near Mauer’s or Crawford’s.”
Everybody wants to build McCann up as this awesome player, but then doesn’t want to pay him what “awesome” players get. Werth got $127, Crawford got $142, Mauer $184.
McCann at least can get a $100 right?
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:55 pm
Efrim – That really sounds like a reasonable deal.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
12:56 pm
Your Hot Dog defense is spurious, facetious and just plain freaking stupid. Period.
Nah, I am thinking more Swiss cheese-like…problem is determining whether its baby, lacey or regular Swiss…
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:57 pm
TnBrian – Well, maybe he’s still alive and living in Argentina with Marilyn.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
12:57 pm
Your Hot Dog defense is spurious, facetious and just plain freaking stupid. Period.
Nah, I am thinking more of a Swiss cheese-like defense…lacey, baby or regular Swiss is the real question.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:58 pm
Ease – Well, it’s obviously obviously Finlandia.
Murph
January 26th, 2012
12:59 pm
Murph, you know what a broadcasting company would probably do if the Braves “held out” for a better deal? They’d probably say “fine” and would let everyone know that the Braves want to breech the terms of their contract because they simply want more money, making the Braves look bad.
I don’t know that the Braves could “hold out”, I was just using it as an example of a contract that’s been signed and later renegotiated because it was the first one to come to mind.
One thing I’m sure of, though, is that if there’s money to be made people have an amazing ability to look beyond past issues. As bad as a team like the Braves might look if they were to somehow weasel out of their current deal, there would be plenty of companies who would line up to work with them if there’s money to be made.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
12:59 pm
Double post…Love.It.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:59 pm
And again, so much for proofreading. Of course, correctingmyself boosts my total posts.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
1:00 pm
5 years $75 million? I dunno, that seems like a steep hometown discount. Especially with how short the deal is.
Open market I think he could at least get 5 years $90 million, maybe 5 years $100 million. It would help if he played in a hitters park and could DH as well.
Ron Paul
January 26th, 2012
1:01 pm
CTB,
It was the Rothchilds. Kennedy was threatening to do away with the Federal Reserve.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 26th, 2012
1:01 pm
Lew, there have been many rumors his photographed body was a dummy. I think Marilyn is for sure dead though. Just shoots your idea down the drain for me.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
1:02 pm
I guess hotdogs must be some sort of Gateway drug to Shaun. First it’s Nathan’s and then Fenway Franks and pretty soon, you’re smoking Crackerjacks and mainlining Diet Coke.
Random
January 26th, 2012
1:02 pm
Murph (January 26th, 2012 12:53 pm): “Anyone who thinks that a 25 year or 30 year deal, be it for concessions or TV or whatever, is 100% set in stone and cannot under any circumstances be renegotiated is silly. There is plenty that an unhappy side could do to get the other side to the table.”
And anyone who does not understand simple contract law should just sit down and shut up.
Signed contracts CAN be re-negotiated, but only if both parties want to do so.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:03 pm
Lew, sure they have. The Hall of Fame voters voted for people who played, managed and were in power when black players weren’t allowed into the game. If segregation didn’t undermine the history of the sport, I don’t know what did.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
1:04 pm
TnBrian – Damn Dude, you’re just wrong. Go play Elton JOhn’s Cadle in The Wind backwards and you’ll know that she’s still alvie. Might be with Bobby, though.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
1:05 pm
Seriously? Segregation? My Good!
Lew
January 26th, 2012
1:06 pm
Shaun – You are comletely FOS.
Go rant on and make a bigger fool of yourself (if in fact that is even possible). See youylater. I’ve said all I intend to on the subject of those hot dog eating, beer drinking game destroying, society’s fabcric wreaking players and their enshrinement.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 26th, 2012
1:07 pm
Ron Paul, the whole Illuminati thing, yeah, another theory. A good one too. One thing for sure is a Speech got JFK killed in some way or another. Apparantly he wasn’t as loved by many and those mainly are the POS in the world.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
1:08 pm
Ease – That one gets my first ever (and likely only ever – for I am the anti scoots) LOL. Great stuff.
DAP
January 26th, 2012
1:08 pm
ease Seriously? Segregation? My Good!
ha!
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:10 pm
It would help if he played in a hitters park and could DH as well.
A team in the American League is going to be able to offer him more money with the DH. I think what I proposed is fair. You start getting up to 6-7 years guaranteed for 17-18 million per year and it just simply doesn’t make sense for the Braves with their payroll restrictions and Mac’s age.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:13 pm
And I’d be comfortable walking away from offering McCann that sort of a deal if Heyward and Freeman progress as they should this year. 6-7 years for 17 or 18 million per year is just too much to offer McCann for his age 29-35 year old seasons.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:13 pm
MFin04, huh? I think you missed the discussion because your post at 1:09 pm doesn’t make any sense within the context.
Lew brought up that steroid users undermined the history of the game, and never before had so many undermined the history of the game. So I brought up all those complicit in keeping black players out of baseball as undermining the history of the game perhaps more so than steroid or PED users. Oh, but that doesn’t matter to Hall of Fame voters because it was a cultural and social norm to not let black people do certain things. Steroids are completely different and are much more reprehensible than not letting certain groups participate because of skin color, right?
Murph
January 26th, 2012
1:14 pm
Signed contracts CAN be re-negotiated, but only if both parties want to do so.
Exactly. Both parties have to want to do so. But, why would one side, who is getting a sweet deal, renegotiate to help out the other side who finds themselves hamstrung by a bad deal?
Like I said, there are several things the Braves could do to get the other side to the table. They could offer things in a new contract to sweeten the deal, they could make it cost-prohibitive to the other side to fight them in court if they back out, so on, so forth.
It happens every day in business. Companies and people sign contracts that, for one reason or another, they decide they cannot or will not honor.
jeffrey doo doo
January 26th, 2012
1:14 pm
Of all the things to complain about on the Braves, some people pick the Silver Slugger catcher McCann?
jeffrey doo doo
January 26th, 2012
1:16 pm
Shaun – so because some wrongdoings happened in the past, you think that allows for a pardon for all present sins? Sins that include giving players an unfair advantage to give them Hall of Fame numbers?
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:17 pm
David O’Brien
January 25th, 2012
10:37 pm
richbrave: Nolte isn’t the star — the stars are the two MMA fighting brothers, his sons. But Nolte is terrific as the broken down, recovering-alcoholic father estranged from both sons.
A role I think he unfortunately relates to all to well.
jeffrey doo doo
January 26th, 2012
1:18 pm
Judge: Well, you killed a man, but back in 1842 my great great great great grandaddy didn’t convict a man of killing a slave, so….you’re free to go! Warden! Empty the jail!!!
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:18 pm
I’ve said all I intend to on the subject of those hot dog eating, beer drinking game destroying, society’s fabcric wreaking players and their enshrinement.
Lew, are you so naive to think that eating hot dogs and drinking beer are the worst things done by players in the Hall of Fame? There are cheaters in the Hall. There are racists in the Hall. There are drug users in the Hall. There are drunks in the Hall. The voters ignored all of these transgressions. But now they all of the sudden want to keep guys out because they used steroids. It’s hypocrisy.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:18 pm
Okay, okay. I had to ask this question. I mean, I didn’t think he’d answer it.
Eric (CT)
Given that the Braves drafts recently have been really bad, and the Latin Trio will no longer be eligible for prospects lists next year, is this the last of the Braves being in the top half of organizational rankings for a while? Thanks!
Klaw (1:17 PM)
That’s probably fair. I’m glad someone else has noticed that their drafts have been really poor of late.
ccrider
January 26th, 2012
1:19 pm
Efrim: I think we see now why the Braves changed direction in their draft the past few years(More College, less High School).
Drafting Minor and Gilmartin and all the other college players may be to replace the talent gap being created by the Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrell, etc. ascending to the majors and the feeling of the organization that they would need more closer to MLB ready players to fill that gap.
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see the Braves in the 2012 draft go back to a High School based draft or at the very least a more balanced draft.
I do worry about the the appearance of a dropoff in international signings.
I, also, suspect that with the pitching surplus at the top of the Braves system and on the major league team , Jair and Hanson will (with healthy and good seasons) be traded(JJ in the summer and Hanson in the off season) to fill some of the holes in the position spots.
I agree with the Swisher thought for next year but I would prefer Signing Victorino to a 3 year deal rather than Bourn for 5 Years.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
1:22 pm
“You start getting up to 6-7 years guaranteed for 17-18 million per year and it just simply doesn’t make sense for the Braves with their payroll restrictions and Mac’s age”
Exactly. That’s all I’m saying. The Braves can only afford the $60-$75 million contracts, not the $90-110 million contracts.
Would like to see Michael Bourn resigned. His numbers don’t look all that great, but he is exciting to watch. Can’t wait to see a full season of him.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:22 pm
Six years, 102 million – Seven years, 126 million. I don’t think anyone here would be comfortable paying McCann that range of salary from 2013 on with the majority of that deal being in his 30’s.
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
1:23 pm
Lew, are you so naive to think that eating hot dogs and drinking beer are the worst things done by players in the Hall of Fame? There are cheaters in the Hall. There are racists in the Hall. There are drug users in the Hall. There are drunks in the Hall. The voters ignored all of these transgressions. But now they all of the sudden want to keep guys out because they used steroids. It’s hypocrisy. — Shaun
Shaun, are you so naive as to think that the majority of voters will ever view this as you do? Because I can assure you, they won’t. And shouldn’t.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:23 pm
Mike (Philly) [via mobile]
Hey Keith. What do you think of that Ryan Howard deal now???
Klaw (1:20 PM)
It looks even worse. He’s making more per year than Pujols or Fielder, but is massively inferior to both. The funniest part was Amaro saying he was even happier with the deal today than he was when he signed it. Does he actually think Howard’s a better player than either of the other two guys?
He probably does. And it’s because of RBI’s and other counting stats.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
1:25 pm
That’s probably fair. I’m glad someone else has noticed that their drafts have been really poor of late.
He must have read Efrims 11:17am post on page 19 of the last blog.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:28 pm
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see the Braves in the 2012 draft go back to a High School based draft or at the very least a more balanced draft.
scoots has brought this up, and I am warm to the idea that they went this route. It’s what I’m hoping. But, I mean, 19 of their first 20 selections were college players in the 2011 daft. Why so one-sided? It’s insane. That sort of ratio makes me think they’ve completely abandoned their prior philosophy, and that’s what got them the young players on the 40-man that everyone loves so much. Nothing would make me happier to see more selections like Matt Lipka was in 2010. I don’t care that he struggled in his first pro season – it was a solid pick for where they were.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:29 pm
jeffrey doo doo, when a “sin” of the past is pretty much equal to a sin of the present, you are hypocritical if you are arguing that the sin of the present should be punished more severely.
I have no problem with those who want to keep out the steroid users. But you better darn well argue that the cheaters of the past were mistakenly let into the Hall, if not argue that they should be expelled from the Hall.
But I don’t see any writers lining up to argue that Gaylord Perry should be kicked out, or at the very least that his induction was a mistake. Until I see a writer or argue that, I can’t take their arguments against PED users all that seriously.
As far as breaking records, I think we put too much emphasis on records and on certain statistics. We don’t look at a player in terms of increasing his team’s chances to win baseball games enough. Voters put too much emphasis on 500 homers, 3,000 hits, 300 wins, how many records he broke. They don’t put enough emphasis on how much he was worth in terms of runs and wins. I’d venture to say it’s because most voters have no clue how metrics translate to runs and wins. So they look at things like whether he posted impressive homerun totals, hit totals and win totals and judge players like an Olympics gymnastics judge instead of judging players by how many wins or runs he was worth to his team.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:32 pm
Mark (Omaha)
What is the ceiling for Andrelton Simmons?
Klaw (1:26 PM)
There’s really not much bat there at all. He doesn’t walk, doesn’t hit for power, so he’s a plus-plus fielder with minimal offense. That might actually be a starter right now, but not a great one.
Pretty much everyones opinion on Andrelton. He can change their minds this year and next year, though. Hopefully he shortens the swing even more and maybe adds more strength and fills out a tad more.
ncscoots
January 26th, 2012
1:33 pm
Shaun, are you so naive as to think that the majority of voters will ever view this as you do? Because I can assure you, they won’t. And shouldn’t
Shaun knows this. That’s his rationale for a whole new committee of FO types as voters and a whole new selection process. One must not forget that Shaun’s characterization of the current voters as “ignorant BBWAA geezers” is now blog lore.
(Lore to me, anyway. I try to work that sucker in every chance I get. It just has such a ring.)
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
1:33 pm
The Ryan Howard, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder deals…
The contracts look terrible, but I wonder how much the whole face of the franchise is worth in dollars?
Pujols was clearly worth it for the tv contract.
Fielder…who knows.
Howard, I dunno, has all the Powerade and Subway commercials. He may be worth it to the Phillies.
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
1:33 pm
Shaun, you have such quaint notions of expelling from the Hall those who cheated in the past, or who were boorish characters or worse. Sorry, doesn’t work that way. Never has, never will. But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to make same mistake by letting in people we know shouldn’t get in now. Voters can’t make up for the past, but can sure keep out players with steroid-inflated numbers or numbers they believe were inflated by steroids, if that’s what they choose to do. It’s the prerogative of the BBWAA and its 10-year members. Thankfully not your call, Shaun.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:34 pm
DOB, I suspect that eventually Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, etc. will get into the Hall. It may be 15-20 years down the line, but I suspect eventually reason and perspective will win out as we move further from the “Steroid Era.”
Oh, and the majority is always right. We should all be cowards and just go with the majority opinion rather than think things through on our own and risk standing outside of the majority. The majority of the BBWAA holds this view. Oh, let me fall in line.
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:37 pm
Lew, are you so naive to think that eating hot dogs and drinking beer are the worst things done by players in the Hall of Fame? There are cheaters in the Hall. There are racists in the Hall. There are drug users in the Hall. There are drunks in the Hall. The voters ignored all of these transgressions. But now they all of the sudden want to keep guys out because they used steroids. It’s hypocrisy. — Shaun
Well Shaun, Jimmy DUGAN isn’t in the hall and it’s strictly due to the fact that he was a drunk. You can look it up. Now bigot TYRUS COBB managed to slip in only because the first voter for the hall had no moral compass. He was a good ol’ Georgia boy thru and thru.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:37 pm
The Dodgers pushed hard for Prince Fielder for weeks and thought they had a legitimate chance of signing him, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports. They offered a seven-year deal worth a little more than $160MM that would have provided the first baseman with the chance to opt out after four seasons. Fielder would have earned $26MM or so for the first four years of the deal and $20MM-plus for its final three years.
Interesting. They are going to unload on the free agent market the next 2 offseasons, as it seems they’ll be getting a incredibly rich ownership group that wants to put the franchise back on the map.
Murph
January 26th, 2012
1:38 pm
Anyone seen the photos of the Marlin’s new in-stadium homerun celebration…. thing?
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/1/26/2737237/miami-marlins-home-run-feature-john-waters-directing-2001-a-space-odyssey
The Miami Marlins, putting the ass in class since 2012.
Threadkiller
January 26th, 2012
1:38 pm
Oh Geez..Here it comes again…RBI’s are useless, Pitchers ERA is all about luck..Home Runs are useless! Blah, blah, blah!!
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:39 pm
DOB, their prerogative but that doesn’t mean it’s correct. It’s my prerogative to realize that certain voters are hypocrites when it comes to voting for PED users.
And I would love to see a voter argue that there are players who committed transgressions in the past who shouldn’t be in the Hall while they are arguing against the PED users who are clearly Hall of Fame caliber players. I would expect that voter much more than those like Terrance Moore, who simply argues that PED users lacked integrity and character and shouldn’t be in, without ever mentioning all the other players in the Hall who lacked integrity and character. I’m not arguing that a writer can change the past. But he should at least acknowledge that other players who lacked character and integrity are already in, and deal with that, instead of brushing that all aside and pretending the game was pure until steroids and PED’s came along.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:41 pm
Oh Geez..Here it comes again…RBI’s are useless
They aren’t very good indicators of production. This is pretty true.
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:42 pm
Shaun:
Don’t take your stand of piety too quickly. The cross is on back-order.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:44 pm
ncscoots, not all members of the BBWAA are idiots. Buster Olney, for one, has a proper view of all the players of the PED era.
Threadkiller
January 26th, 2012
1:44 pm
Efrim, I guess you’re right..A batter has nothing to do with RBI’s Sorry, my bad..
Ease
January 26th, 2012
1:44 pm
They aren’t very good indicators of production
But they are the clear definition of what is generally called “clutch”.
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:46 pm
And the hits just keep comin’
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:46 pm
Not getting into the RBI argument. Heavily context dependent stuff and never something I even look at anymore.
ncscoots
January 26th, 2012
1:47 pm
much more than those like Terrance Moore, who simply argues that PED users lacked integrity and character and shouldn’t be in, without ever mentioning all the other players in the Hall who lacked integrity and character.
You need a new definition of “hypocrisy”, my man. Find a player who lacked integrity and character for whom Moore did vote, then you can waggle your finger in his face. Failing that, you got not a tiny little Joe Pesci leg to stand on. Because, you see, and try to stay with me here, voters such as Moore didn’t vote for the players a half-century ago, who you insist should be judged against values and mores of a half-century later.
McFann O O o
January 26th, 2012
1:47 pm
jeffrey d Of all the things to complain about on the Braves, some people pick the Silver Slugger catcher McCann?
I know, right? Spring Training needs to get here and pronto!…
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
1:48 pm
In my 1:39 pm, “expect” should instead be “respect.”
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:49 pm
Amen scoots. Just like I said.
ncscoots
January 26th, 2012
1:49 pm
Not getting into the RBI argument.
I prefer that we move straight ahead to “clutch”. I’m pretty sure that may be the only way to turn away the tsunami of HOF posts by Shaun.
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:51 pm
scoots:
chuckle!
ncscoots
January 26th, 2012
1:51 pm
Just like I said.
That’s why we’re in the old-guys clique.
I knew you wouldn’t mind, if I said it again. Getting through to some folks here takes a little repetition.
Lollygagger
January 26th, 2012
1:52 pm
Chipper cheated on his wife, and Bobby Cox beat his wife… so, by Shaun’s standards they shouldn’t make the Hall of Fame. Geez, if we start nitpicking and counting character and whether or not they have partaken in the “sin” of alcohol, then we all do realize that there’d be about 10 people total in the HOF. What a joke- baseball players are human just like the rest of us, meaning they all have their flaws just like we all do. Except Shaun, apparently.
Jimmy
January 26th, 2012
1:53 pm
“Buster Olney, for one, has a proper view of all the players of the PED era.”
Proper view = Shaun’s View
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
1:54 pm
Much fun folks, but gotta split. Shaun, peace.
DAP
January 26th, 2012
1:54 pm
the thing is, that with a mid market payroll, the braves are going to have to pick a handful of core players, and stick with them. they have too many young players now to keep all of them.
so, the trick is, deciding which players to hitch your wagon to, and which ones to milk until they leave.
so how many players can we hitch the wagon to at a time? do we want it to be mccann and uggla, or do we want it to be heyward and freeman?
this is a tuffy, but by the time mccann needs to be extended, the picture on heyward and freeman will be much clearer, and we will be able to see how much we should be willing to spend on mccann.
Bay Area Steve
January 26th, 2012
1:58 pm
Can anyone tell me if this makes any sense:
Aren’t the TV folks just as interested in a competitive, fairly-payrolled Braves? If eight years from now, this TV deal is so bad as to be a hindrance to payroll, wins, success, would not the TV people be willing to up the dollars, assuming folks were watching at a reasonable rate? If the Braves start late ‘80ing it again, a whole lot less are going to watch, and the TV folks lose money. I think both sides are in bed together, and have mutual reason to see that the Braves remain competitive, no?
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
1:59 pm
Good post at 1:54, DAP. Well said.
Jimmy
January 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
BAS – That does make sense. Alot of sense.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
ncscoots, voters, like Terrance Moore, need to address the fact that character and integrity and even not cheating have never really been applied as standards for the Hall when those voters use that as their rationale for not voting on players from the steroid era.
richbrave
January 26th, 2012
2:01 pm
Lollygagger
January 26th, 2012
1:52 pm
Chipper cheated on his wife, and Bobby Cox beat his wife… so, by Shaun’s standards they shouldn’t make the Hall of Fame. Geez, if we start nitpicking and counting character and whether or not they have partaken in the “sin” of alcohol, then we all do realize that there’d be about 10 people total in the HOF. What a joke- baseball players are human just like the rest of us, meaning they all have their flaws just like we all do. Except Shaun, apparently.
So halitosis is better than no breath at all? How rude. Gargle some LISTERINE you foul-breathed blasphemer. You will never reside in the AJC’s pantheon of most revered bloggers. Equating scurrilous human virtues to the most holy………baseball players.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
2:05 pm
What a joke- baseball players are human just like the rest of us, meaning they all have their flaws just like we all do. Except Shaun, apparently.
Lollygagger, huh? You missed my point entirely. I’m arguing that players with flaws should be in the Hall. I’m the one arguing the PED and steroid users who are clear Hall of Famers should be in. Some of these other folks are the ones who say certain players, like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc., should be in because of flaws.
DAP
January 26th, 2012
2:05 pm
murph, ouch, that thing is ugly.
ncscoots
January 26th, 2012
2:06 pm
ncscoots, voters, like Terrance Moore, need to address the fact that character and integrity and even not cheating have never really been applied as standards for the Hall when those voters use that as their rationale for not voting on players from the steroid era
Why? The standards used by Ring Lardner for his votes have absolutely zero to do with the standards observed by voters today, not should they. How is this possibly not clear to you?
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
2:07 pm
That last sentence should read, Some of these other folks are the ones who say certain players, like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc., should NOT be in because of flaws.
I’m not the one arguing against Chipper, Bobby Cox, Bonds, Clemens, etc. Other people are. Others want to argue that certain flawed human beings shouldn’t be in the Hall. I argue they should, if they meet the standards that have been applied since the Hall has been in existence.
Bay Area Steve
January 26th, 2012
2:07 pm
The McCann thing is so frickin’ simple, I don’t understand why y’all continuously gnash your teeth. If guy sees value in staying home, like Chipper, he’s a Brave for life, or at least until his body forces him to DH. If he’s not, it’s high-bidder time, and he’ll be gone. I, for one, hope he’s around a while.
Murph
January 26th, 2012
2:09 pm
The Nationals have a clause in their TV deal where, every 5 years, the deal is “reset” and the two sides look at it to make sure it’s competitive with other deals around the market. If they can’t reach an agreement, they go to arbitration.
What do you want to bet the Braves do not have this in their 25 year deal?
Another interesting thing I just found… the Dodgers and FOX tried to renegotiate their deal and, in fact, had an agreement that was later rejected by Bud Selig for whatever reason. If that deal had been approved by MLB the Dodgers would not have gone into bankruptcy.
Jimmy
January 26th, 2012
2:10 pm
DAP/Murph – that “thing” makes me think of Mimi Bobeck from the Drew Carey Show.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
2:11 pm
Shaun, how is it that in all your years of voting, that you have never been able to convince your fellow compatriots at BBWAA of your virtues? Are you not a master of debate? Or is it that the BBWAA is just full of “old geezers” who are bereft of intelligence, logic and reason?
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
2:15 pm
BAS, that’s fair. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Would you be comfortable giving him six years, 102 million? I just can’t see it.
Bay Area Steve
January 26th, 2012
2:15 pm
Jimmy,
Thanks. I’m tryin’ to figger if it’s just wishful thinking on my part.
DAP
January 26th, 2012
2:16 pm
my guess on several of the current braves, and their future with the organization is that mccann will be extended, and his time with the braves will reach into his mid-30s.
uggla will play out his contract here and then be gone.
jurrjens and hanson will both leave when they become free agents (if not before with jurrjens)
venters and kimbrel with both leave when they become free agents.
heyward and freeman will get deal buying out one or a couple of free agent years, then one of them will become a free agent and leave in their late 20s. the other will stay long term.
prado will get a contract buying out a few free s agent years, and leave in his early 30s.
just guesses here, but with the young pitchers the braves have, i see this team putting alot of money into those guys in the future.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
2:18 pm
Oh, but Bonds and Clemens and McGwire’s flaws were that they wanted to make themselves better and healthier. So that is a far more egregious sin than cheating on or beating your wife. Instead of letting all these well-qualified players into the Hall, let’s pick and choose which sins we think are worthy of keeping a player out of the Hall.
Oh, wait. The PED users have inflated stats. And we all know stats were pure and untainted by context until steroids came along. We shouldn’t have to get sophisticated and determine whether 300 homeruns in the 1920’s was the same as 300 homeruns in the 1950’s. We should just pretend that 300 homeruns is 300 homeruns…that is, until steroids came along. Steroids are the first thing ever, in the history of the game, to inflate statistics. Until steroids came along, a homerun was a homerun. Never mind the dead ball, the practice of throwing out dirty baseballs for new ones, etc. We all know the game was exactly the same from the 1800’s on until steroids came along, right? (sarcasm)
Bay Area Steve
January 26th, 2012
2:19 pm
I don’t follow it, Efrim. I don’t know, or care to look, what the going rate is. Whatever, post-Mauer-debacle, the catcher market has come down to, McCann’ll get offered something fair. Not the most he could get, but within Chipper/prime-like reason. The question is will he take it.
Of course, as always, this is just my opinion, and he may be traded tomorrow. How ’bout a Random-like constant: McCann will not be traded.