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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,462 comments Add your comment
kwajbraves
January 26th, 2012
10:26 am
FG was on First Pitch today. More on there is no need to make changes because “we like our team” . I like our team too but I’d love for us to get another bat so I can transition from like to love.
bravesfansince1982
January 26th, 2012
10:26 am
Wow, it still never ceases to amaze me how people can have so little optimism for the upcoming season. Even the most die hard of fans of teams that never seem to do well (Royals, Pirates, etc.) have some hopes for the new season.
There is enough talent on this Braves squad for them to win in 2012. There are question marks, sure, but what team does not have those?
For some perspective, I’m a huge NY Giants fan and even though NO ONE picked them to be in the Super Bowl, I still had hopes that they could win enough to make the playoffs and then, who knows?
Well, that has worked out pretty well.
Have hope, Braves fans. We can’t control anything that happens in the Front Office or on the field, but we can control how we respond to the team. And so far, since they have not even played 1 game of the 2012 season, it seems unfair to label them as a 3rd place team at best.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
10:29 am
Tigers have agreed to terms on a nine-year contract with first baseman Prince Fielder…
Holy Moly!
bravesgirlnc
January 26th, 2012
10:34 am
Was wondering the same thing Murph
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
10:36 am
I assume you liked the soundtrack to Warrior. Excellent use of The National, methinks. — Voice of Harold
Indeed, another aspect of the movie that was entirely surprising. When it opened with a tune from The National, immediately made me think, hey, this might not be what I expected….
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
10:39 am
I’d say that the Braves will be competitive – even with all the others spending tons of money and us not doing so. But I fully expect to see a really good outfielder here next year, or I might start channeling Ten Paul’s financial negativity.
Braves have a bright future because of the young players they currently have on the major league roster. I think Philly will still be able to spend around 170 million this year and moving forward. That doesn’t mean they won’t feel the effects of handing out long term deals to players that are already in regression(Howard, Rollins). But they’ll be able o ake up for it by spending money, seems as if Cole Hamels won’t be there beyond this year, so they can invest those dollars in other players.
Ease
January 26th, 2012
10:41 am
Murph, the short answer is that Vizcaino has better overall stuff…
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
10:42 am
Can someone who knows more about the prospects than I do please tell me… why is Vizcaino ranked higher than Delgado? Is it projected upside or something?
Yes, more upside. Better fastball and breaking ball. For the people who think Vizcaino can stick as a starter, he is the better long term prospect. However, there are some that feel his long term place will be in the bullpen, and if that’s the case, then Delgado is the more valuable prospect long term. Viz has better stuff, that’s for sure.
DS1
January 26th, 2012
10:43 am
I too appreciate that my favorite team is being fiscally responsible with their payroll. Draft well and keep your own talent as often as you can.
And the Nationals long term scare me more today than the Phillies, Marlins or Mets. Some awesome young talent on the rise. The only bad deal they have is that Werth contract.
And next year, I don’t expect the Braves to run out and spend every nickel up to 94 million per (if Chipper retires). I’d fully expect them to engage some of their young talent in extension talks before they reach free agency (and in some cases arb eligibility).
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
10:45 am
Jim Salisbury, longtime Phillies writer, reporting that Lidge close to signing with Nationals.
kwajbraves
January 26th, 2012
10:48 am
Murph,
I’m not expert but I think that Viz has the potential to be a top of the rotation pitcher because of his electric arm plus up curve and developing change up. Also, Viz has more exposure since he was signed by the Yankees and there were greater expectations on his potential. However, I agreed on your assessment on Delgado. He is a gamer that is not afraid to take the ball and goes after hitters much like Beachy.
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
10:49 am
I can’t believe that the Braves, with concessions sales, mecrchandise sales (those new unis), etc. are actually just breaking even
I am suspect as well. But in Terry’s “defense” the payroll is only a portion of the Braves expenses. They still have to pay all their draft, minor league contracts, travel, front office salaries, equipment etc. And of course Bruce Sutter’s contract. That all adds up to quite a bit of money.
Lemke's Knuckler
January 26th, 2012
10:49 am
Just read through MLB.com top 100 prospect list. I know prospect predictions are impossible, but the more I read about Bethancourt, the more I start to worry about what the Braves might have to do with McCann long term. I love McCann and think he’s a great hitter, but it sure would be nice to have a Yadier Molina type backstop. You think about the young pitchers we have coming up (Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, Minor) and I wouldn’t say any of them have quick deliveries to the plate. And Hanson may have one of the slowest deliveries since Hideo Nomo. Might be nice to have a guy behind the plate to neutralize the running game. And I don’t think Freeman is going to let go of the first base gig for a long time. Makes me want to change my mind about the DH thing…
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
10:49 am
And next year, I don’t expect the Braves to run out and spend every nickel up to 94 million per (if Chipper retires). I’d fully expect them to engage some of their young talent in extension talks before they reach free agency (and in some cases arb eligibility).
Totally agree. If you sign Michael Bourn to an extension and another player for LF, you aren’t going to have much left in the back to extend McCann and afford Heyward, Hanson, Venters, Medlen, Freeman, Beachy, Kimbrel, etc. through their arbitration years. I’m sure much of the decision making will rely heavily on how Heyward and Freeman perform this year – especially Heyward. That will allow them to know exactly what they need to go get next offseason.
Lemke's Knuckler
January 26th, 2012
10:50 am
Also, I have a McCann jersey and don’t really want to buy another one, those things aren’t cheap.
DS1
January 26th, 2012
10:53 am
kwajbraves/Murph/Efrim,
A different take on the prospects. Does it really matter that one is ranked over another? Who does the ranking help? Actually, if the Braves end up keeping both guys for the next 7-10 years, then it makes no difference.
If we are dealing one of them, then maybe it helps us to assign some sort of value to each player. “He’s the 32nd ranked player in the major leagues, for crying out loud! We need 1 more utility infielder thrown into that deal!”
But short of trading them, it really matters not who is ranked higher. The cream will rise to the top in the long term.
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
10:53 am
But they’ll be able to make up for it by spending money
Agreed. I think, while the Phillies have ruined contract negotiations for some by handing out bad deals, they should be able to sustain themselves because they can spend. Much like the Yankees. They can buy their way out of most problems.
DS1
January 26th, 2012
10:55 am
Lemke
Those things tend to work themselves out over time, and usually not exactly the way we might project today. I try not to get to wrapped up about anything beyond next year.
kwajbraves
January 26th, 2012
10:56 am
Is too early to talk about McCann extension? I know he is the face of the franchise but I wonder what are going to do with Betancourt. Another good problem to have. See, I can be optimistic too.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
10:56 am
Uggla – 13.2
McCann – 12
Hudson – 9
Prado – 7
O’Flaherty – 3.5
44.7 million
Heyward – 3
Hanson – 3
Venters – 2.5
Medlen – 1.5
10 million
16 players making minimum salary – 8.16 million
Total 25-man roster = 62.86 million
Gonna need some creative thinking to get the payroll to 90 million without hurting the long term chances of locking up the young’ns. But I suppose if they just focus on 3 year deals for free agents for 2013-2015, then we’ll have whatever money coming off of the books in 2015. They’ll have to think that far ahead though.
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
10:59 am
If you sign Michael Bourn to an extension and another player for LF, you aren’t going to have much left in the back to extend McCann and afford Heyward, Hanson, Venters, Medlen, Freeman, Beachy, Kimbrel, etc. through their arbitration years. I’m sure much of the decision making will rely heavily on how Heyward and Freeman perform this year – especially Heyward. That will allow them to know exactly what they need to go get next offseason
Like the Braves enjoy saying, these problems have a way of sorting themselves out. Out of that list I don’t expect to see most of those guys in Braves uniforms long term precisely because this team caps its payroll. I’d imagine 2 or 3 of them will be signed to deals to keep them around and the rest will go through arbitration or be traded before FA.
At any rate, the team should be able to afford bringing in a productive out fielder next year while not blocking the core guys they wish to keep. This team has hardly any long term commitments as it is. I think Uggla is the only one with guaranteed money past 2012.
Looking at Cot’s new website (joined Baseball Prospectus and beefed up the HTML)… The Braves have $14M guaranteed in 2013. Two buyouts (McCann and Hudson) and Uggla. They should be fine with signing players.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
10:59 am
I wouldn’t worry at all about McCann/Bethancourt situation – Bethancourt hasn’t faced Douible-A pitching and never really walks at all. He has a long ways to go, imo. Tools are certainly there, but he has to produce more than he has. He’s super young as well. Plenty of time, and extending McCann should be a top priority next winter.
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
11:02 am
They should be fine with signing players.
Unless of course they notch the payroll back once the guaranteed contracts come off the books.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:02 am
They should be fine with signing players.
I think they’ll bring in one free agent in the 10-13 million per year range, and you’re right, they should still be fine long term. It’ll work itself out, as you say. Let’s just hope the right players stick around(cough, Heyward).
Venice Jim
January 26th, 2012
11:04 am
Jon Heyman
also hear philly is bottom fishing for infielders. maybe $50M for pap and 2 yrs for nix werent the best ideas, after all
Bat Masterson
January 26th, 2012
11:04 am
No, you could make that argument, but it would not be a very good one. I think it would be an absolutely ridiculous one.
Yeah, of course it would be, David. Obviously, if you take away the alcohol you are left with a Mickey Mantle that was at least as good a baseball player, or maybe better, than the one we know. Surely he would have been a happy, healthy, well adjusted guy.
Then again, we might not be talking about Mickey Mantle at all.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:04 am
Sign Bourn for five years and 65 million or sign Nick Swisher for three years and 33 million. Hmmm. I guess it all depends.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:06 am
I like the Lidge signing for the Nats. Really rounds out their bullpen nicely: Storen, Clippard, Rodriguez, Lidge, Gorzelanny, Burnett.
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
11:07 am
Lidge struggled against Braves for much of his career — 5.55 ERA in 35 appearances through 2009 — but not lately. He has a 0.00 ERA and .121 opp. average in 10 appearances against them during the 2010-2011 seasons.
kwajbraves
January 26th, 2012
11:09 am
I like the Lidge signing for the Nats.
I like too considering they could have signed Fielder. Bullet dodged…
Lew
January 26th, 2012
11:11 am
Bat – One thing is certain – Mantle did not become a better player because he drank too much, but those who took steroids definitely became better players than they would have been. Shaun’s argument lacks any sort of credibility.
Lemke's Knuckler
January 26th, 2012
11:11 am
“Agreed. I think, while the Phillies have ruined contract negotiations for some by handing out bad deals, they should be able to sustain themselves because they can spend. Much like the Yankees. They can buy their way out of most problems.”
To me, that right there is the problem. The whole risk-reward thing doesn’t factor in when you can waste $30mm without blinking an eye. There are very few markets that can support that type of mentality and the only viable solution is some sort of salary cap. The only reason baseball has remained moderately competitive without a salary cap is the minor league system that allows team to control players for 7 years and pay them under $500K. So teams can get lucky with a superb crop of young players, but it’s only a fleeting success until those players are ready to sign big contracts. NBA and NFL has guaranteed rookie contracts, which is why they’re model is different. Eventually, you have to think Selig will pursue some sort of soft cap that’s a little tougher on the big markets than the luxury tax, because every contract signed is a precedent and they’re only going up. And I imagine they’re going up faster than revenue/inflation.
It’s a good thing they got the rookie bonus scale under control, because that was heading toward the big markets also getting the best prospects in additional to all the big free agents.
JoeFan
January 26th, 2012
11:14 am
Don’t believe the Braves will extend McCann if Bethancourt moves easily through AA and possibly up to AAA by season’s end. Bethancourt appears to have a better skill set than McCann and given the Braves penchant for saving a dollar want be surprised to see McCann’s option year exercised but after tha,t then the job likely falls to Bethancourt. No more super contracts for aging stars and I can’t blame the Braves for that.
coldwork
January 26th, 2012
11:19 am
DOB I agree with you on the movie Warrior. I didn’t go in with high expectations either and really found it to be one of the best movies I have seen in the past year.
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
11:22 am
Something that most folks don’t realize — I didn’t until recently — is that teams only get 1/30th of the revenues generated by the sale of jerseys, caps and other such licensed merchandise. It’s split evenly between all 30 teams (great for teams like the Rays and A’s, not so much for more popular teams like Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox and, yes, Braves). The exception is gear that’s sold in official team stores, which the team doesn’t have split evenly with the other 29 teams. The Braves only have one such store, at CNN center. The Yankees are smart to take advantage of their popularity by having multiple stores around the NYC area.
Patio Daddio
January 26th, 2012
11:24 am
As far as concessions go ARAMARK handles the food and beverage sales. They signed an agreement to supply all the equipment, labor, food, beverage, must have proper very expensive insurance and pay for all licenses and in return they give the Braves a small percentage for the right to do this.
ARAMARK is making all the money on concessions. The Braves are only the Landlord and their take is minimal
Murph
January 26th, 2012
11:25 am
DS1, it’s a fair point. Ranking really doesn’t make any difference to a player’s worth, just a fan’s perception of their worth. It’s natural to want to put these guys in some sort of order just to be able to take stock of what we’ve got.
Debating the ranks of Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino is a nice problem to have. All have the potential to be special pitchers at the MLB level. Sure beats trying to rank Proctor/Sherrill/etc.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:26 am
http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=5250
An interesting take, for sure.
Patio Daddio
January 26th, 2012
11:27 am
ARAMARK sets all the pricing. Any other food vendors that may have a contract with the Braves does the same thing
csg
January 26th, 2012
11:31 am
Epic collapse, no acquisitions this offseason, announcement of that TV deal….a lot of buzz heading into Spring Training right?
Just remember to get those 20 game season ticket packs so you can get 30% off your concession items (minus the beer of course)
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:31 am
So I guess we’ll slowly go from 15th in payroll, to 20th and so on and so forth, as other teams get new TV deals – which is the greatest source of revenue for teams. Why in the world would they lock themseles into a 30 year TV agreement with no possible out? I guess its undrtanable that they didn’t see the boom that hit, but it kinda sucks that the Braves won’t be able to cash in on that when so many other teams will be able too. Just hurts them in the long run. Also surprising that McGuirk divulged into those three issues with more detail than usual. For him to come out and say it’s a $94 million dollar payroll is kinda surprising.
brian
January 26th, 2012
11:32 am
so Lidge did well against the Braves in 2011??? Probably only a handful of pitchers that did not do well against the Braves last year.
CrαZy
January 26th, 2012
11:33 am
I go down to the CNN center to buy a new Jersey EVERY season I figure the revenue from that probably buys the team at least a dozen extra balls for BP. Everyone needs to do their part!!
DAP
January 26th, 2012
11:33 am
lew I’d say that the Phillies have a god team going forward
they are pretty talented, but elevated to the level of deities? c’mon lew. :- )
CrαZy
January 26th, 2012
11:34 am
Wait the 30% off concessions doesn’t cover beer???
unbelievable
January 26th, 2012
11:36 am
Crazy, of course it doesnt. The beer is a bigger revenue stream than the current TV deal.
McFann O O o
January 26th, 2012
11:36 am
JoeFan Bethancourt appears to have a better skill set than McCann…
Holy [crud]! Dude hasn’t played AA yet, and he already appears to have better skills than the 6-Time All-Star, 5-Time Silver Slugger? Maybe I’ve underestimated the kid…
For real. Let’s not go all Media 4 Buster Posey on this guy…how ’bout let’s let him play in the minors for a while, and see how that goes…
Patio Daddio
January 26th, 2012
11:39 am
ARAMARK is getting rich off the beer sales, not the Braves
unbelievable
January 26th, 2012
11:39 am
Sign Bourn for five years and 65 million or sign Nick Swisher for three years and 33 million. Hmmm. I guess it all depends. – Efrim
According to the recent news, the Braves would rather just look at player development. Dont be surprised to see the Braves cut payroll next year when some of these contracts come off the books. Liberty wants to make a profit on their investments. Why would they continue to spend $90mil + to only break even? They’ll cut payroll if given the opportunity. Dont worry though, Lipka/Turd/Bethancourt can fill all the spots for less than a $1.5 mil
Murph
January 26th, 2012
11:39 am
As we’ve seen in sports and business, everything is (re)negotiable if one side wants it bad enough.
Again, I have a really hard time believing there’s no way out of this horrible TV deal. As expensive as it may be, a suit and a settlement to get out may be the way to go. It might cost a lot of dough now, but the longterm benefit would be worth it.
In light of other deals being signed around the league the Braves organization should demand to renegotiate. If the other side refuses, they should take every legal action they can to get out of it.
kwajbraves
January 26th, 2012
11:41 am
Relax McFann. We’ll keep McCann. We may to to put a TV dish on his back to supplement our TV deals to so but we’ll keep him.
CrαZy
January 26th, 2012
11:41 am
If the beer isn’t covered I don’t see the point in the promotion!! I’ll continue to buy my standing room only ticket and find my way somewhere behind home plate by the middle of the game!!
Lew
January 26th, 2012
11:43 am
DAP – Nah, I just can’t type – must be the poor eyesight and arthritic fingers.
Guess I can’t use that excuse and still sell artwork, can I? Actually, if only I proofread. Too much effort.
Patio Daddio
January 26th, 2012
11:45 am
When Liberty Media purchased the Braves one of the stipulations was the payroll could not drop below $87.3M. If that is still effective, now that the 4 1/2 year period has passed, I am not sure.
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
11:45 am
In light of other deals being signed around the league the Braves organization should demand to renegotiate. If the other side refuses, they should take every legal action they can to get out of it. — Murph
So because a couple of other teams have signed lucrative TV rights deals that dwarf the Braves’ deal, you think the team should be able to sue and get out of the contract? For no other reason than, the deal is no longer the one they want? Sounds pretty bogus and dubious to me.
If you’re a player signed to a long-term deal and you have a huge couple of seasons that make the remaining years of your deal seem unfair to you because many other similarly productive players have since signed much larger deals, should you be allowed to just sue to get out of it because you don’t like the deal anymore?
And if you buy a car with a five-year loan and the car seems pretty mediocre to you after a couple of years, and a bunch of other cars become available that are better and cheaper, should you just be able to sue to get out of the deal so you can buy another car?
DAP
January 26th, 2012
11:46 am
lemke’s knuckler I love McCann and think he’s a great hitter, but it sure would be nice to have a Yadier Molina type backstop.
id much rather have a mccann type backstop than a molina type backstop.
joefan Bethancourt appears to have a better skill set than McCann
i try, but i sincerely dont understand this position. you are saying that bethancourt, a guys who hasnt played above A ball, has a better skill set than our major league catcher, the guy with 6 all star selections, 5 silver sluggers, and who happens to be on a HOF trajectory in his career? what are y’all thinking?
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:46 am
When Liberty Media purchased the Braves one of the stipulations was the payroll could not drop below $87.3M.
Really? I never remember reading that. If true, that’s a good sign.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
11:49 am
Bethancourt hasn’t showed enough offensive potential yet to be seen as more than a all glove/no stick catcher. I’d much rather have McCann over the next five seasons.
CrαZy
January 26th, 2012
11:50 am
Bethancourt appears to have a better skill set than McCann
Dude has “The backup and future prospect is always better than the starter syndrome”!! Don’t fill bad joefan there are many other naive fans like you… you’re not alone!!
DAP
January 26th, 2012
11:55 am
unbelieveable Liberty wants to make a profit on their investments. Why would they continue to spend $90mil + to only break even? They’ll cut payroll if given the opportunity.
if you read the article with terry mcguirk, youll see that companies expect little to no profit margin while owning an asset like a sport team, and the hope is that the value increases enough while you own it to make a profit when you sell. kinda like buying a house (or ideally, its like buying a house). you dont make money off of it while you live there, but hopefully when you sell it, its worth a little more than it was when you bought.
DAP
January 26th, 2012
11:57 am
lew, im worse at typing than you, except with no good reasons, like arthritis or bad eye sight. the only reason my posts arent butchered worse than they already are is that my browser has spell check. you wouldnt believe all the red underlines i see before hitting “submit”.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
11:59 am
I don’t see the Braves resigning McCann unless they get a discount. He isn’t going to be worth his contract and with his eyes and weight, seems like he’ll probably rapidly decline. Tough to spend a ton of money on a guy that doesn’t play a full season of games and seems to have random health issues.
McFann O O o
January 26th, 2012
12:01 pm
kwajbraves We may to to put a TV dish on his back to supplement our TV deals to so…
I’m gonna be honest here……I don’t know what that means…
I read that TV thing everyone was talking about…didn’t get a word of it…
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:03 pm
DAP – Yeah, but spellcheck wouldn’t tell you that god was wrong if you meant to type good, instead.
McFann O O o
January 26th, 2012
12:04 pm
MFin04 He isn’t going to be worth his contract and with his eyes and weight…
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Neither one really appears to be an issue…
flange1
January 26th, 2012
12:07 pm
I kinda liked the phrase with the word god in it!
Ease
January 26th, 2012
12:08 pm
Yeah, but spellcheck wouldn’t tell you that god was wrong if you meant to type good, instead.
But of course if you meant ‘Ease is good’ and typed Ease is god’, err, vice versa…means the same right? I am down with Lew’s proofreading skills.
McFann O O o
January 26th, 2012
12:08 pm
BMac was in top five in the NL for defensive games at catcher for 5 straight years before 2011…
2006: 124 (3rd)
2007: 132 (2nd)
2008: 138 (3rd)
2009: 127 (4th)
2010: 136 (1st)
And last year, he appeared in 126 games as the catcher, which is more than he did in 2006…
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:14 pm
Ease – You mean LACK of proofreading skills.
Crazy thing is that I’m actually a really good editor – when I’m getting paid for it.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:16 pm
126 Games isn’t enough if he is going to be your number 1 money maker and face of your franchise. Not to mention he played in a lot of those games with issues. It isn’t so much the games played, but productive games played when he could actually see, play, etc.
Braves With Many ? Marks
January 26th, 2012
12:18 pm
One of my favorite 2011 movies : Bunraku.
raleighbravefan
January 26th, 2012
12:18 pm
McFann – BMac’s health and abilities are kinda like Fox News…If wrong information is repeated often enough, a lot of people believe it, without checking out the facts.
unbelievable
January 26th, 2012
12:20 pm
Apparently it can…
2010 Payroll – $83,890,334
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
12:21 pm
Also surprising that McGuirk divulged into those three issues with more detail than usual. For him to come out and say it’s a $94 million dollar payroll is kinda surprising.
I’ve been pounding on that drum for a while. Bout time he stepped up to the mic.
raleighbravefan
January 26th, 2012
12:21 pm
MF – How many NL catchers come close to 162/year? Seems to me a pretty good deal to have the best catcher in the league play 130, and the best backup in the league to play the rest.
Murph
January 26th, 2012
12:22 pm
DOB, you see it all the time. Look at football… guy signs contract, another player who plays the same position signs a better deal, guy threatens to not report to training camp until his deal is renegotiated, deal gets done, guy shows up to play. There is precedence.
Now, do I think it’s morally right to back out of a deal that’s been signed? Not at all. That being said, as someone pointed out, if the other 29 teams in the league sign deals and their payrolls go up and up and up due to their TV deals while the Braves’ payroll remains the same and they go from middle of the pack to the bottom of the league in ability to spend… well, what do you do then when you’ve still got 15 years left on a TV deal that prevents your team from being competitive? Take the high ground and wait it out?
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
12:23 pm
So because a couple of other teams have signed lucrative TV rights deals that dwarf the Braves’ deal, you think the team should be able to sue and get out of the contract?
Only the federal government can abolish a contract without regard to laws and rights, then renegotiate a contract favorable to whom ever they please and leave the others sitting by the way side. Private contracts otherwise, stand and must be honored.
I don’t think any Federal intervention is coming the Braves way on this so they’ll have to deal with it for the next two decades. Maybe by then contracts will be even higher.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
12:23 pm
126 Games isn’t enough if he is going to be your number 1 money maker and face of your franchise.
It is when he is the best of that position among his peers. And will most likely continue to be over the next 5 years.
TennesseePaul
January 26th, 2012
12:24 pm
Look at football…
From what I understand MLB player contracts are much different than NFL player contracts. And both of those are entirely different than TV contracts.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:26 pm
“If wrong information is repeated often enough, a lot of people believe it, without checking out the facts.”
Thought that was CNN. But it really isn’t wrong information. He had prolonged stretches in which he was worthless at the plate and behind the plate, but it adds to his games played total.
He caught 122 games last year. DHed 2. Realistically only 124 games played. So you want the face of your franchise to only play in 77% of your teams games? And do you really think the guy is going to continue to get better or worse? Healthier or unhealthier?
I like McCann, he’s a great guy, great offensive catcher, not a very good defensive catcher…but it depends what kind of deal he is going to get. I’m sure he can get a ton more from an AL team to catch and DH if he wants it.
DAP
January 26th, 2012
12:27 pm
murph Look at football… guy signs contract, another player who plays the same position signs a better deal, guy threatens to not report to training camp until his deal is renegotiated, deal gets done, guy shows up to play. There is precedence.
that doesnt really qualify as precedence for a tv deal, does it?
raleighbravefan
January 26th, 2012
12:27 pm
Murph – NFL player contracts have very little relevence in real world contract law.
Brave/Liberty Media – “we need to renegotiate…or eles we’ll….we’ll do something about it”
Broadcasters – “tough sh!t”
raleighbravefan
January 26th, 2012
12:30 pm
MF – “not a very good defensive catcher” – see, that’s what I’m talking about…repeating erronious information.
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
12:31 pm
DOB, you see it all the time. Look at football… guy signs contract, another player who plays the same position signs a better deal, guy threatens to not report to training camp until his deal is renegotiated, deal gets done, guy shows up to play. There is precedence. — Murph
What are you talking about? Do you really not understand the difference? What does an NFL player contract have to do with this? Nothing.
And by the way, not even MLB player contracts would follow the “precedent” you said is set by NFL player contracts, much less a contract between a team and a broadcasting company.
Your argument is so filled with holes, there’s no point in even getting into a debate on the subject if you don’t see the difference between an NFL player demanding a trade or renegotiated contract and a team doing same with a broadcasting company. What are the Braves going to do, threaten to not play their games so the broadcaster is left to fill three hours of air time? Ridiculous.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:32 pm
McCann averaging about 136 “games played” a season
2006 OPS .961 AVG .333
2008 OPS .896 AVG .301
2009 OPS .834 AVG .281
2010 OPS .828 AVG .269
2011 OPS .817 AVG .270
David O'Brien
January 26th, 2012
12:32 pm
Apparently it can…
2010 Payroll – $83,890,334 — unbelievable
Not sure where you got that payroll figure, but it wasn’t the Braves’ payroll in 2010. Off by at least $5 million.
Shaun
January 26th, 2012
12:34 pm
Bat – One thing is certain – Mantle did not become a better player because he drank too much, but those who took steroids definitely became better players than they would have been. Shaun’s argument lacks any sort of credibility.
Lew, no one is denying the possibility or the probability that guys became better players because of steroids. That has nothing to do with the argument.
The argument is that players doing things to become better players, even cheating to some degree, has never been held against players when it comes to Hall of Fame voting until steroids. And doing things that are reprehensible to one degree or another has never been held against players when it comes to Hall of Fame voting until steroids.
So if one is going to argue that steroid users don’t belong in the Hall, fine. But that person better also be willing to argue that all the other players who cheated and/or did something reprehensible should be kicked out, or at least that it was a mistake to vote them in.
The guys who lack credibility are the guys who won’t vote for Bonds but who think it is just fine and dandy that Gaylord Perry, Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, etc. are in the Hall.
My view on the subject is why all of the sudden worry about cheaters or reprehensible behavior. The only thing that should matter is the only thing that has mattered throughout the history of Hall of Fame voting: Is the player a good enough player to be in the Hall of Fame? Because no one worried about morality, character, integrity and cheating before. Why do the writers even pretend that they once did and that the game was once pure? Either this group of writers who think this way are stupid and don’t realize that the game has always had elements of impurity or they are okay with being inconsistent when it comes to cheating, character, morality and integrity. Either way, it’s those writers who lack credibility when it comes to Hall of Fame voting.
Random
January 26th, 2012
12:34 pm
Murph (January 26th, 2012 11:39 am): “As we’ve seen in sports and business, everything is (re)negotiable if one side wants it bad enough.”
No, dumb ass.
No contract is renegotiable unless BOTH sides want it bad enough.
For whatever reasons.
Jesu, dude — find a clue.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:36 pm
“MF – “not a very good defensive catcher” – see, that’s what I’m talking about…repeating erroneous information.”
He isn’t a very good defensive catcher.
brian
January 26th, 2012
12:36 pm
raleighbravefan – people see what you are talking about but people have an issue with the political statement about Fox news. A lot of people would say that the thrill up the leg network MSNBC, CNN, Al Gore, etc., repeat lies or erroneous information or misleading information.
All politicians do – this President, the previous President, etc.
Enquiring Minds Want to Know
January 26th, 2012
12:37 pm
I wouldn’t let Bethancourt’s future affect an extension for McCann. Bethancourt’s strong suit is defense; what he has to prove is whether he can hit in the big leagues. McCann’s strong suit is with the bat. His value as a catcher is that he fields his position adequately while providing muchbetter hitting than the average catcher.
If Bethancourt comes up and proves to be just an adequate hitter against ML pitching, then there’s your replacement for Ross. If he hits so well that you’ve just got to start him, McCann could end up being that left fielder we’ve been looking for all these years, as well as the catcher every 6th day. He’d have to be at least as good as Carlos Lee.
SoWeGa Fanatic
January 26th, 2012
12:38 pm
Joe Mauer averaged 115 games a year in his career to date.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
12:38 pm
Not sure where you got that payroll figure, but it wasn’t the Braves’ payroll in 2010. Off by at least $5 million.
Just going to say: Glaus’s incentives, Saito’s incentives, McLouth’s buyout, etc. Payroll was under 90 million that year, but probably just a bit under.
SoWeGa Fanatic
January 26th, 2012
12:39 pm
Johnny Bench averaged 127, 3rd base and all.
brian
January 26th, 2012
12:40 pm
as far as player contracts being renegotiated, it is always a pet peeve of mine to see a guy have a big year and then demand a bigger contract to reflect his year. A signed contract is a signed contract. The player had the security of a deal – good, bad, injured. If the player had a bad year or had a season ending injury, would the player be open to renegotiating the contract to reflect that season? Of course not.
MFin04
January 26th, 2012
12:40 pm
“Joe Mauer averaged 115 games a year in his career to date.”
Joe Mauer’s contract was also one of the worst contracts to date.
SoWeGa Fanatic
January 26th, 2012
12:41 pm
Yogi Berra averaged 112.
Efrim
January 26th, 2012
12:41 pm
2006 OPS .961 AVG .333
2008 OPS .896 AVG .301
2009 OPS .834 AVG .281
2010 OPS .828 AVG .269
2011 OPS .817 AVG .270
Yeah, and offense around the entire league is way down from 2006 – so your argument doesn;t work by just posting his OPS numbers. In fact, by looking at the better stat in OPS+. he’s been pretty damn good the last three years and only slightly down from his first three years.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:41 pm
Shaun – BS.
Lew
January 26th, 2012
12:42 pm
They cheated, broke Federal law and lied their augmented asses off.