6:06 am January 17, 2012, by David O'Brien
January 22nd, 201211:27 pm
January 22nd, 201211:28 pm
So are you rooting for Pats or Giants now that you’re team is out?
C’mon, Kat, whaddaya think?
Oops, GIANTS rule.
So,when do you believe in Tweet,unless your a fairy?
Can’t say I saw (or was happy for ) Victor Cruz but I will be rooting for the Giants
January 22nd, 201211:30 pm
So-o-o, anyone see MASTERPIECE THEATER and SHERLOCK HOLMES besides me this evening?
January 22nd, 201211:31 pm
I did stay at a Holiday Inn though…….A little humor……..
January 22nd, 201211:32 pm
Only one t.v. in the house so the family is forced to share. Time limit expired on football at 6:00 p.m., not that I mind particularly.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 22nd, 201211:33 pm
Why is Prince still not signed?
Well….all the team in Boston, New York and Los Angeles aren’t in the picture. Texas doesn’t really need him, leaving Milwaukee or Washington and the Brewers have washed their hands of Prince already. Simply Put, Boras doesn’t have much leverage for his client in the free agent market.
January 22nd, 201211:35 pm
Waiting folks out no doubt. I wonder who’s sweating this out the most, BORAS, FIELDER or the BREW-crew!
January 22nd, 201211:36 pm
This writer is doing a book about baseball on Sept. 28 (the day the Braves and Red Sox were eliminated).
If any fans want to possibly be quoted for the book, contact him: email@example.com (his name is Paul Kocak)
January 22nd, 201211:37 pm
NYTOL. Congrats to the GIANTS fans, condolances to the NINERS faithful. No dogs in the two fights today, nor any week after next. The color is off – no burgundy and gold.
January 22nd, 201211:39 pm
Nobody wants to pay for a 10 Year Deal yet,and Boras is asking way too much.Rangers, could be in on it,and maybe San Fran,but I’m hoping Fielder signs with Japan. That would be funny.
January 22nd, 201211:40 pm
The latest MLBtraderumors blurb on Michael Bourn.
January 22nd, 201211:43 pm
All have a good one! Talk tomorrow,and Peace My Friends………
January 22nd, 201211:44 pm
I believe T-Hawkin’ might have a quote or two to give him. Too bad he already left for the day.
Chris from the Rock
January 22nd, 201211:46 pm
Ward, I would say his dad would highly recommend that move to him, but sadly I don’t think they’re even on speaking terms.
January 22nd, 201211:58 pm
Coach – If the Braves could sign Bourn for what they say (5 – $50M) I think they would. But I bet it would be Febuary of 2012 before Boras went that low. I’m just never optimistic when that agent is involved.
January 22nd, 201211:59 pm
Feb of 2013 I meant for Boras to go that low.
January 23rd, 201212:32 am
As my psychotic homicidal rage recedes to a low simmering stubbiness, I have realized that I need to go to sleep. so I will say my goodnights with a promise that VJ will still be here in the morning
Good Night blog!
January 23rd, 201212:33 am
*stabbiness, not stubbiness
January 23rd, 201212:37 am
I will say my goodnights with a promise that VJ will still be here in the morning
We’re gonna hold you to that, LAdy. Good night
January 23rd, 201212:43 am
I think Bourn will get better than 5/50, but I doubt the Braves will offer more than that
January 23rd, 201212:46 am
The Washington Post has yet to jump on the Prince is on the verge of coming here bandwagon, but it is very early on a Monday morning…
January 23rd, 201212:47 am
Like she has moved yet…
January 23rd, 201212:53 am
Probably a risky FYI but I heard the Nats will sign Fielder for 8yrs with a 3yr opt out. Pending physical.
Don’t bet your house on this one but there it is…..
January 23rd, 20121:00 am
Off to figure out what it means to have my team make it to the championship, a feeling I have sorely missed since…Duke won 2 years ago…and the Giants 2 years before that…
January 23rd, 20123:35 am
Former Dodgers pitcher Don Newcombe presented two awards at once to the only other player in history who’s won the Rookie of the Year, Cy Young and Most Valuable Player awards. Fellow righty and former rookie of the year Justin Verlander of the Tigers collected the Cy Young and MVP honors and a hug from Newcombe, who had waited 55 years for someone to equal his feat of winning all three awards. After Newcombe, 85, delivered a rollicking speech focusing in large part on how he tries to keep up with his younger wife, Verlander made an amusing confession. The Detroit ace said once the media began reporting and asking him about the possibility of being named MVP, “Of course I was thinking about it,” despite having repeatedly answered that he wasn’t
January 23rd, 20127:40 am
Good Morning Everyone
I think the Braves are done adding. But with a lot of veteran players left on the market I wouldn’t be surprised if any of them would fall in our price range. Which would probably be 2 mil or less. Also depends on how confident the Braves are in Matt Diaz, Jose Constanza, and someone I hope wins a roster spot Luis Durango.
While most of us have been talking about Cody Ross all off-season, When it comes to the money he isn’t gonna fit, I just looked at the free agent list. He’s the 2nd best Outfielder available only behind Yoenis Cespedes. But there is hand full of older veteran who could still handle a corner spot in the outfield as a part time player. With really no clear DH opening’s some will settle for bench roles and such. Lowering the price. Would any of them be better than the options we have now? How many of these guys might only get a minor league deal with a invite?
Also during spring training, teams will cut a good amount of players loose. There could be some possible fits that become free agents. Also trade discussions will still be going on. So I think a few minor additions will happen. Most likely bench depth which needed, possibly adding a couple AAA options for mid-season call ups from injuries and such.
January 23rd, 20127:46 am
I agree about Michael Bourn, I think the max would have to be 5 years 50 million. The only way I’d be willing to offer a higher salary is if it was a shorter deal, like maybe 2 years 24 million.
January 23rd, 20127:52 am
I may be in the minority, but I’m not sold on Bourne yet.
Of course that’s true of all but chipper and mccann and most of the pitching…
January 23rd, 20128:12 am
Michael Bourn Comparibles for Contract
Chone Figgins at 32 years old Signed 4 years 35 million after posting 292. 365. 390. 50SB/YR in a 6 year period
Juan Pierre at 29 years old Signed for 5 years 44 million after posting 302. 350. 380. 50SB/YR in a 6 year period
Luis Castillo at 31 years old Signed for 4 year 24 million after posting 295. 368. 365. 25SB/YR in a 6 year period
Ichiro Suzuki at 34 years old Signed for 5 years 90 million after posting 331. 379. 433. 35SB/YR in a 6 year period
Carl Crawford at 28 years old Signed for 7 years 142 million after posting 302. 347. 463. 50SB/YR in a 6 year period
Coco Crisp at 31 years old Signed for 2 years 14 million after posting 267. 328. 392. 30SB/YR in a 6 year period
Jose Reyes at 28 years old Signed for 6 years 102 million after posting 297. 354. 458. 45SB/Year in a 6 year period.
Those are the best comparable when it comes to Speedy Leadoff men that have gotten long term contracts. When looking at the list all of them have produced better batting lines, but Bourn is prolly the best defender of the bunch for his position, and Arguably best base stealer as well.
January 23rd, 20128:19 am
I forgot to add Rafeal Furcal to the list as well.
January 23rd, 20128:28 am
The only problem with your comparables is that those contracts, save Ichiro, were widely derided as massive overpays and can be viewed in retrospect as large mistakes. I don’t think one can expect that current GMs, having seen the failure of those contracts, will be eager to repeat the mistake for their own clubs.
January 23rd, 20128:36 am
how can we say that Cespedes is better than anybody yet? He is absolutely unproven against anything approaching MLB pitching is he not? Guy could be a bust, would not be the first Cuban player to do so
January 23rd, 20128:38 am
gotta take into account inflation dontcha scoots?
January 23rd, 20128:42 am
Just tellin ya the numbers bud,
I know that about Cespedes, But i’m sure we can all agree he’ll get more years and money than any other free agent outfielder, so thats makes him the #1 OF. I’m not saying he’ll be great, just trying to explain what’s left for Outfielders and possibly why Cody Ross would be tough to bring in, He’s the best proven Outfielder on the market that has the most value. Being only 31 years old and play good D in all spots.
January 23rd, 20128:43 am
gotta take into account inflation dontcha scoots?
I guess, LOL. Still, if an AAV of $9MM for Pierre was an overpay, wouldn’t $10MM for Bourn be considered likewise? Eleven per cent inflation over a couple-three years seems a little steep.
(Though Crawford and Reyes may have put a spike in the market for no-lumber base-stealing speedy defenders. Bourn might end up being the beneficiary, I reckon.)
January 23rd, 20128:45 am
I think 8per is what he’s worth, 10 absolute tops, but I think Boras might get him 12 or more even though I am not all that big a fan of his
January 23rd, 20128:47 am
yeah Va I agree that Cespedes will get the most money more than likely but I wouldn’t want it to be the Braves giving it to him if it is as much as has been bruited around
January 23rd, 20128:49 am
Well when looking at the numbers, most of the comparable’s are clearly better hitters. Now Bourn probably has the edge over all of them on Defense and SB Ability. Bourn is also has shown to stay healthy and play 150+ games. Looking at Juan Pierre, the guy puts the bat on the ball with the best of them, he played 162 games in 5 consecutive season’s , his AVG/OBP were great, he averaged 50+ SB a year, good defender with a weak weak arm.
January 23rd, 20128:52 am
Pierre is not really a good defender and I am so glad that the Braves never signed him for what he got
January 23rd, 20128:54 am
I gotta admit that I just don’t think any of those kinda players are worth all that much
but I think Boras might get him 12 or more even though I am not all that big a fan of his
then, it’s a no-brainer for me. That kinda money needs to go to LF or 3B, if Chipper retires. The team can always find a defender for CF who can hit 8, if it comes to that.
January 23rd, 20128:59 am
Still, if an AAV of $9MM for Pierre was an overpay, wouldn’t $10MM for Bourn be considered likewise? Eleven per cent inflation over a couple-three years seems a little steep.
That’s not really how MLB FA market works. Regardless of how people view a past contract, the agents and players argue the market value is based off those deals and proceed from there. In Bourn’s case they would, probably successfully, argue that Pierre received X and Bourn is a better all around player than Pierre so he should be X+Y.
It is doubtful Bourn is with the Atlanta Braves after 2012. The team will still need outfielders though. LF and CF for 2013 at a minimum.
I think the only reason they get paid well is because there isn’t that many of them. If Bourn matches last season’s performance with the bat he’s looking at a big pay day. Just not many Elite Defenders with Elite Speed/SB Ability who can hit well. Now I agree we shouldn’t be the one’s to pony up the huge deal. But Wren should offer a fair and competitive deal around 4 years 36 mil.
January 23rd, 20129:01 am
We have a possible 52 million coming off the books after the 2012 season. With atleast 25 million for sure coming off.
January 23rd, 20129:05 am
Lowe 10 mil
Bourn 7 mil
Diaz 2 mil
Ross 1.6 mil
Hinske 1.5 mil
Wilson 1 mil
Moylan 1 mil
Chipper 14 mil (Retire)
Jurrjens 9-10 mil (Possible Trade, Money, Depth)
Hudson 9 mil (May not exercise option, Depth)
EOF 4-5 mil ( Possible Trade, After another raise hard seeing the Braves pay that much for non-closer RP)
January 23rd, 20129:11 am
VaBraves – Actually, if Jurrjens is traded, you would be saving the $5.5 mil he makes this year – that’s the salary coming off the books.
January 23rd, 20129:13 am
Main needs would be some combination of LF/CF/3B, were also gonna have a whole different look on the bench. I think there is a decent shot David Ross could return, as he likes Atlanta and his role on the club. I could easily see a 1 year 1.5 mil deal worked out, that is if he has a solid 2012 season. If Chipper call’s it quits, we’ll have options to either pursue a LF or 3B with Prado taking one of the spots. CF will be our biggest need, Really don’t have a in-house replacement, Luis Durango could fit the defensive/8th batter mold possibly. I really like the guy. Everything else will be determinded by this season. But I just love babbling about the future. So there you have it lol
January 23rd, 20129:14 am
Same with O’Flaherty and it would NOT surprise me that with that much coming off the books, they re-sign him. You have to go with how much they’re making now to figure savings and not what they MIGHT make.
I think it was nolie who made the point yesterday that this overstocked pen may be a strategy in and of itself – a cheaper way to dominate games. O’Flaherty has had all good years since becoming a Brave. They may keep him.
January 23rd, 20129:15 am
And if Chipper retires and Prado has a Prado-like year, they mioght well just pay Martin his arb raise (or sign him longer term) to play third and worry about the outfield instead.
January 23rd, 20129:17 am
Yeah correct, depends on when we would trade him. I really see it being a keep Jurrjens or Hudson situation after the season.. Really depends on how the youngin’s do tho. You have to figrue after another raise for Jurrjens he’ll be around 9 mil. Now say if only 1 of Teheran/Delgado work out I would trade JJ for the best prospect offer, and exercise Huddy’s option. That way we gain prospects + money instead of just money from letting Huddy go.
January 23rd, 20129:20 am
Re: discussions about MICHAEL BOURNE and the BRAVES going forward……..I just don’t get the feeling that BOURNE wants to be a BRAVE long-term. I think he’s somewhere else in 2013.
January 23rd, 20129:24 am
The Braves have been pretty smart when it comes to letting relief pitchers go at the right time. Over a month ago I did my own projections, and I picked EOF to be the player who takes the biggest step in the wrong direction. Relief pitchers are just a crapshoot, can be great 1 year, average the next and so on. Thats why they never seem to get more than 2 year deals, (unless your a top closer)
Just the reverse with O’FLAHERTY. I’d be really surprised if he doesn’t stay a BRAVE long-term.
January 23rd, 20129:31 am
VaBraves – Well, yeah, JJ might well get that much in arb last year, but if you’re talking savings from THIS year, you have to go with what he’s making now.
I agree, though – he’ll be gone next year. Huddy? They’ll keep him – unless he really struggles coming back from his suregery, but after seeing him pitch WITH the back issue, I’ve got to believe he might even be better if he’s pain free.
meant next year. Still early.
January 23rd, 20129:39 am
The team can always find a defender for CF who can hit 8, if it comes to that.
That’s where you have Pastornicky hitting. They can’t all hit 8.
EOF the three years as a Brave -
ERA 09 – 3.04 , 2010 2.45, 2011, 0.98
WHIP – 09, 1.24, 2010, 1.25, 2011, 1.08
H/9 – 09, 8.3, 2010, 7.6, 2011, 7.2
HR/9 – 09, 0.3, 2010, 0.4, 2011, 0.2
K to BB – 09, 2.17, 2010, 2.00, 2011, 3.19
If he has anything approaching these numbers in 2012, he won’t be going anywhere. He’ll be worth $5 mil. Hate to see him gone, especially when Venters and Kimbrel will still be around.
January 23rd, 20129:41 am
Joaquin Benoit signed a 3 year 16.5 mil as a 33 year old non closer.
Scott Downs signed 3 year 15 mil deal as a 35 year old non closer,
Most consider those an overpay, but its pretty clear EOF is better than them. And also being younger. With a normal EOF season he’d be looking at a 4 to 5 mil salary in 2013.
January 23rd, 20129:42 am
HUDSON is a BRAVE thru and thru. Can’t see him leaving until his EFFECTIVE career is over.
JURRJENS must be healthy this entire season, and then he still will prolly be gone after. Too many good arms waiting their turn to keep raising that salary. A third injury-ridden season in a row, and his career money-wise will be over as well.
HANSON has a bit longer to prove out, but his injury was alarming in my book. That problem this season may have been induced by technique which is not good long-term.
I think if Pastornicky makes some strides this season he could possibly be our leadoff man in 2013. My be a little optimistic. But he’s makes alot of contact and has a good approach at the plate. Great speed as well.
January 23rd, 20129:43 am
I have The Rev hitting 8 this year. 2013 is a different deal; he might hit 1 or 2, given serendipity. If not, then the team can look to other options.
All these 1 year contract extensions will come back to haunt the Braves. If they deserve an extension then make it for three years. Now Bourn will be gone after this season as a free agent.
January 23rd, 20129:46 am
Luis Durango could be a possible CF replacement if we decide to spend money on other postions and rely on defense and speed from the CF spot. He’s 25 right now and hasn’t been given a chance in the bigs.
2,590 Minor League PA’s
312. 403. 361. batting line
318 BB 306 K 175 SB 84 CS 52 Bunt Hits
You just don’t extend relief pitchers for three years – at least not during arbitration years. No reason to. Really no reason to extend ayone in arb unless they’re nearing the end of their arbitration run or unless you know for sure they’ll continue to produce and you have the money.
Agreed on BOURNE.
January 23rd, 20129:48 am
That problem this season may have been induced by technique which is not good long-term.
though it’s just as possible that the weakness in the scapula forced him to slow down his delivery and reduce his velocity. In the minors, his delivery was more fluid than now. Not quite so much halt at high-cock.
Still, he’s always had a little bit of that hitch, regardless, so you could be right.
Will DURANGO be 2012’s ‘the BEAV’? Or ‘George’ maybe?
January 23rd, 20129:49 am
Very impressive numbers for Durango, you just don’t see a OBP like that with speedsters. Also to have more walks than strikeouts is always impressive. I really hope the guy wins a roster spot this season.
January 23rd, 20129:50 am
DOB said yesterday that Durango had a solid shot at making the team. I think he could easily be better than Constanza.
January 23rd, 20129:52 am
I think he could easily be better than Constanza.
Damning with faint praise.
January 23rd, 20129:57 am
Luis Durango does have 74 ML PA’s produced a 292/361/292 batting line with 7 SB 1 CS in limited action. I’m surprised the guy hasn’t been given a opportunity with the numbers he’s put up in the minors.
January 23rd, 20129:59 am
I’m not holding my breath on Durango. He’s a lightning in a bottle type player. Has great minor league stats, but has done nothing at the MLB level (very small sample size, acknowledged). mHis first year he racked up good numbers, but in only like 9 plate appearances. In the two years since, not so much, with a low OBP and BA. He has zero XBH in 74 oplate appearances.
It would be nice if he came to the point where he could utilize his speed, but has NOT yet.
In addition, this is a player pushed by Coach the last several years. Nuff said.
January 23rd, 201210:02 am
scoots but I think Boras might get him 12 or more even though I am not all that big a fan of his
totally agree. heck, rick ankiel can be had for $1mil on a short term commitment. id deal with him batting 8th before spending $12mil per for a guy like bourn.
January 23rd, 201210:04 am
Durango in 09 (MLB) – 11 AB, .545, 615, .545
Durango 2010-11 MLB) -, .240, .302, .208
I know seeing him as a possible 2013 starter is very very optimistic but Hopefully he can at least be a solid bench player. Maybe a late bloomer?
January 23rd, 201210:06 am
Maybe if the Twins have another bad season, we could try and trade for Denard Span as Michael Bourn’s replacement. Just another option.
January 23rd, 201210:07 am
No, no, no, no, no. Why does the name Rick Ankiel keep coming up on this blog? He should not be a part of any major league lineup…the Braves can (and should) do better.
January 23rd, 201210:08 am
Rich Ankiel is still a great defender with a monster cannon of a arm. He’ll get a job.
January 23rd, 201210:10 am
VaBraves – Might be worth giving him a shot in ST and see if he can handle 4th outfielder status. Just not sold on him making it. He does have speed, but no power whatsoever. One would think that given the dimensions of Petco Park, that he at leat would have stretched at least ONE hit into a double, though.
January 23rd, 201210:11 am
heck, rick ankiel can be had for $1mil on a short term commitment. id deal with him batting 8th before spending $12mil per for a guy like bourn.
Neither of those options is good. I’d rather spend six million on another converted infielder in the outfield than watching Rick’s futility… he was the worst CF in the majors last season making him over paid at a million bucks.
Some times you catch lightening in a bottle, but more often than not you just get what you paid for.
January 23rd, 201210:13 am
Ten Paul – Bottle’s battery died?
Not as a starter on a contender.
January 23rd, 201210:14 am
What I like about Durango most is his contact rates and BB/K.
January 23rd, 201210:15 am
I agree about that, but the man still has value. He is a better defender than Cody Ross just not as good with the stick. He’s kinda like a Alex Gonzalez but a Outfielder lol
January 23rd, 201210:18 am
VaBraves – Like I said – impressive minor league numbers. Has NOT translated to the bigs (yet, anyway). No XBH in 74 PA. None.
Give him his shot, but don’t hold breath and turn purple while waiting. 4th outfielder may well be the best he can attain at this level – maybe not even that.
January 23rd, 201210:19 am
He may be like Seabass in the outfield, but CF while still a defensive position, typically has guy who can hit a notch or two above Seabass level.
Ankiel is a late innings defense sub and 5th outfielder. The Braves can and should do better than him even if/when Bourn moves on to more expensive pastures.
January 23rd, 201210:27 am
Agreed, was soley talking about him only as a player.
January 23rd, 201210:36 am
Even SS typically has a guy who can hit a notch or two above Seabass level.
January 23rd, 201210:40 am
Who do you guys think is going to get a bigger contract next offseason, Bourn or Upton?
Looking at the possible free agents, if the Braves are going to fill that void in that way, those are really the only two viable options.
I’m not a huge fan of Upton. I don’t think he’d bring the skills to the table that the Braves really need.
After looking at the FA landscape and players who might possibly be available via trade, I don’t think the Braves will be able to do better than Bourn. I’m sure Boras knows this and will play the Braves’ desperate need for a CF/leadoff man to get Bourn an amount that most are uncomfortable paying, but all things considered, if it takes 4 years and $10-12mil per year, I don’t see another option.
January 23rd, 201210:46 am
Upton has the power, Bourn has him beat everywhere else.
January 23rd, 201210:50 am
lew I think it was nolie who made the point yesterday that this overstocked pen may be a strategy in and of itself – a cheaper way to dominate games.
i could totally see that, and i like it. young dynamic starters, who are cheap and pitch well, but only for 6 innings max, and dominant middle and late relief. i think its a pretty good strategy for a mid payroll team. the starters are good but still really cheap, and relievers will always be cheap, and relatively easy to replace.
January 23rd, 201210:52 am
murph, here are your other options. and these are just the free agents. doesnt count trade candidates.
Alfredo Amezaga (35)
Michael Bourn (30)
Marlon Byrd (35)
Melky Cabrera (28)
Mike Cameron (40)
Curtis Granderson (32) – $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Scott Hairston (33)
Angel Pagan (31)
Aaron Rowand (35)
Grady Sizemore (30)
Ryan Spilborghs (33)
B.J. Upton (28)
Shane Victorino (32)
January 23rd, 201210:55 am
VaBravesFan Luis Durango does have 74 ML PA’s produced a 292/361/292 batting line with 7 SB 1 CS in limited action. I’m surprised the guy hasn’t been given a opportunity with the numbers he’s put up in the minors.
im not. the dude has no power at all, and alot of people think that minor league hitters like that dont translate well to the majors, where guys are throwing strikes more, and you arent going to be able to coax walks out of every other pitcher. hitting the ball hard somewhere really helps. if durangos slg% was closer to .400 in the minors, that would be nice. not saying his skills wont translate, just saying it makes toal sense that he hasnt gotten a shot in the majors. i think its a shame, and im looking forward to seeing if he can make that happen at the MLB level.
January 23rd, 201210:56 am
RC Why does the name Rick Ankiel keep coming up on this blog?
VaBravesFan Rich Ankiel is still a great defender with a monster cannon of a arm. He’ll get a job.
thats why. especailly when we are talking about a guy to hit 8th and play good D, you cna do worse than ankiel. not like hes my (or anyone’s) first pick, but he plays well on one side of the ball.
He’s kinda like a Alex Gonzalez but a Outfielder lol
January 23rd, 201210:57 am
If Durango or Constanza are getting a good amount of playing time then something has gone terribly wrong. There is a reason why these guys are career minor leaguers.
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