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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,779 comments Add your comment
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
1:07 am
Time to rest up before the quasi-important game tomorrow afternoon…
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
1:09 am
vj, agreed. good luck tmmrw.
i think eli is playing is arse off.
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
1:10 am
Good thing cab got her new computer, because while the Niners were playing last week she was too nervous to let this one out of her grasp…
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
1:11 am
uga – thanks!
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
1:16 am
so what are you guys going to do? at least one of those two teams are going to play in the super bowl.
at least one team in the fight.
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
1:17 am
giants and the niners have history. i am sure eveyone remembers the bad snap.
kenhotlanta
January 22nd, 2012
1:18 am
I was glad Sutton came back, too, and Jim Powell is really good. I really miss Boog, he was great and kinda had Skip’s irreverent humor.
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
1:19 am
uga – exactly – the good thing is, we’ll have one team between us…
Good night!
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
1:20 am
ken, i loved boog. .
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
1:20 am
Boog is fun on Twitter – and catching him on random college hoops games…
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
1:20 am
Seriously – tomorrow!
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
1:31 am
the worst of all time was bob rathburn and tom pacioerek.
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
1:34 am
i think the hawks pay rathburn in cereal box tops. he is the worst.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 22nd, 2012
1:47 am
Agreed. Powell is my favorite announcer we have and he’s on the radio. I wish he’d take Chip’s place, but I guess since his last name is Caray he gets to stay on tv. Boog was also a good announcer, easy to listen to and he was/is really smart.
kenhotlanta
January 22nd, 2012
2:01 am
uga: Bob Rathburn and Tom Paciorek were the pits. How about Jeff Torborg, can’t remember who he was with, but pretty bad, too.
We will never top Ernie, Skip, Pete, Joe and Don, especially when they did TV and Radio together.
don sutton's poodle perm
January 22nd, 2012
2:12 am
i tip the caddies just fine. my poodle perm is cheap though
don sutton's poodle perm
January 22nd, 2012
2:17 am
paciorek was sanduskyed by a priest when he was a kid. cut him a break. good guy. it was too bad that he was so easily overjoyed by
don sutton's poodle perm
January 22nd, 2012
2:18 am
rathbun is just plain silly. at a loss for excuses for him
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
2:28 am
ken, i forgot about jeff torborg. good catch.
nolie
January 22nd, 2012
2:32 am
Sutton has always been smarter than most…. and unlike a humble man such as myself he makes no bones about it.
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
2:41 am
nolie, just dont like the guy. he is full of himself. pretty sure i could find a few fellas that agree.
nolie
January 22nd, 2012
2:43 am
I don’t hafta like him, and i know that a lot of players did not back in the day when he was playing, but he makes mostly intelligent,if sometimes too long, comments about the game of baseball
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
2:44 am
ask the guys at tj’’s what they think about don sutton?
nolie
January 22nd, 2012
2:47 am
that is likely true Uga, but like someone said a while ago, it has nothing to do with his insights into the game. yes he has always had a rep for being full of himself, but hey, I’m hardly one who could hold that against him and not be a hypocrite
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
2:48 am
ask the two assisant pros at atlanta national what they think of him?
kenhotlanta
January 22nd, 2012
2:48 am
I remember a Monday Night Baseball game with Howard Cosell interviewing Don and Steve Garvey after they had gotten into a fistfight in the clubhouse. The camera had both in extreme closeups and you could see the bruises and blackeyes, they were both sweating and it was all very intense. A classic TV moment.
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
2:58 am
lots of old hockey players and scratch players hang out at tj’s.
willie plett. tom lysiak. and the train eric vail. we play some golf. mostly at rivermont.
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
3:02 am
two step from the back tees.
kenhotlanta
January 22nd, 2012
3:07 am
I miss the Flames and Boom Boom, too, what an entertaining bunch of guys. I think Skip and Boom Boom were good friends and hung out around town.
See y’all tomorrow, the bed is calling my name.
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
3:25 am
boom boom jeffrion. awesome stuff ken,
uga-brave
January 22nd, 2012
3:27 am
not man people remeber boom boom and jigs.
Efrim
January 22nd, 2012
8:20 am
Red Sox going with Darnell McDonald in RF and a platoon of Nick Punto and Mike Aviles at SS? Not really a fan of the Scutaro trade for them. And while I understand it was to free up some cash to pursue starting pitching, right now they have some serious holes on that team.
Disgusted
January 22nd, 2012
8:28 am
The Braves are in better organizational shape than the RS are now, if the Braves can get over the psycological thing of last September.
If we could ever get an ownership that would up the payroll to 120 – 125 mil, that would put the Braves in a great position to be back among the elite again given what the Braves have in the system. They could have the kind of machine they had in the 90’s when they were getting to the WS regularly and the LCS every yr.
I’d rather be in the NL where you do not have to compete with the Yankees.
CB
January 22nd, 2012
8:37 am
I believe Red Sox will end up signing Cody Ross and probably make a trade for a young pitcher or sign Oswalt. Yeah,they have some problems of their own but still a very good offensive team.
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
8:37 am
And Joe Johnson, maybe a bit overpaid but he is a darned good ballplayer, and by the time he is through here he might hold the Hawks scoring record.
Joe Johnson has taken this Hawks team as far as the exhalted Dominique did, he never took then to a Confrence Final. Not all his fault but……. _ Disusted
You’ve gotta be f’ing kidding me………. I remember Dominique and Bird’s battles……….. Iso Joe? Give a minute, I’ll think of something……. ?????? Screw the fans…… Yeah, that’s about it.
Moe Berg
January 22nd, 2012
8:43 am
If we could ever get an ownership that would up the payroll to 120 – 125 mil, that would put the Braves in a great position to be back among the elite again given what the Braves have in the system. They could have the kind of machine they had in the 90’s when they were getting to the WS regularly and the LCS every yr.
I’d rather be in the NL where you do not have to compete with the Yankees.–Disgusted
You do realize that Tampa Bay is able to compete and make it to the playoffs, despite having a significantly lower payroll with than the Braves and having to compete regularly with the Yankees. The payroll is more than adequate to be competitive.
Lew
January 22nd, 2012
9:07 am
15th in attendance in MLB and 15th in payroll in MLB.
Somehow, that kind of seems in balance. It’s called good money management and not exceeding your available budget – something the entire country should try sdometime. We might not be in the straights we are had we done that as a country and individuals.
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
9:35 am
I’m sure you have all read MLBTraderumors spo on Michael Borne extension. Does any one think it is at all possible? Would 4/40 plus an option get it done? is it good for both sides?
TommyP
January 22nd, 2012
9:36 am
LOVED Moneyball…watched it last night. I kept watching it thinking, “Wren must be having tons of these conversations.” (alluding to finding cheap guys for solid production)
Shocked to think Smoltz might take awhile to get into the Hall. 200+ wins, 150+ saves, absolute money pitcher. Smoltz should get in BEFORE Schilling, that’s for sure.
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
9:41 am
Smoltz WAY better than Schilling. IMO not even close.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
9:49 am
Good Morning Everyone. According to my calculations we will have possible 52 million coming off the books after the season. With around 24 million for sure coming off the books. The Braves should be in great position to land a top free agent or a handfull of good players. Here’s the breakdown.
For Sure Coming off the Books.
Lowe 10 mil, Bourn 7 mil, Diaz 2 mil, Hinske 1.5 mil, Ross 1.6 mil, Wilson 1 mil, Moylan 1 mil
Possibly Gone List
Chipper 14 mil (Retire), Jurrjens 9-10 mil (Trade), EOF 4-5 mil (Trade), Hudson 9 mil Option (Lots of depth)
I really think with the young arms progressing one of Jurrjens or Huddy could be gone…possibly both. Depends on how everyone else does this season and how our prospects do will determine this. Also I just don’t see the Braves wanting to keep EOF after another raise.
The Braves should be in a good position next off-season to bring in a top free agent, or have a couple good signings. You have to figure some of our own prospects will fill holes but with 6 to 10 spots opening up there gonna spend some money.
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
9:53 am
i think the hawks pay rathburn in cereal box tops. he is the worst.
Rathbun and Paciorek were awful with the Braves. I didn’t like how Paciorek would talk to the ball.
“Go ball!” “Get in there!”
I remember during one AB there had to be at least a minute of dead air.
But Rathbun isn’t bad with the Hawks, at least to me.
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
9:56 am
Any chance Cody Ross could still be signed?
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:01 am
Webster
I’d say chances are very slim. Wren wants to have a little money for a mid-season move. I think there will be a few more teams willing to offer a little more money. Knowing Wren he’s had a offer for Cody the whole off-season.
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
10:12 am
VA– your right. I think he would be a nice back up to Bourne, plus LF when Prado is at 3rd. And emergency if/when Bounre leaves
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:21 am
Webster
Looks like Diaz, Constanza, Durango, Parraz, Sutton will battle it out for a couple bench spots. Cause right now I only see David Ross, Jack Wilson, and Eric Hinske as locks for the bench. Diaz is getting paid 2 million for 2012 so he would really have to suck in spring training to not get a spot. Also lots of players get released and we could find some guys who might fit our team.
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
10:22 am
I forgot about Diaz. Kind of Cody Ross light. Too bad he can’t handle CF as a back up.
Venice Jim
January 22nd, 2012
10:25 am
Sounds like Joe Pa has actually passed away, unlike the reports last night…
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:26 am
I remember back in 2004 we signed Russel Branyan to compete for a roster spot in Spring Training. He started off like 0 for 24 with 17 K’s or somthing crazy, we traded him away. He’s bounced around forever. But after we cut him loose he went on to slug 490. with a 826. OPS the last 7 years combined.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:29 am
Webster
Diaz is a average defender at best in a corner spot, Can hit LHP well but seemed to have lost his power. Also has seen his OPS decline the last 2 seasons. Now my true opinion is I have no confidence in him anymore. Buit if he can manage to hit LHP around a 290. AVG without the power he would still be a ok fit with Hinske as a LF platoon when Prado is at 3rd. But I still think Cody Ross would be a upgrade cause he would be a true 4th OFer that can play all the spots good defensibly and is solid with the stick
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
10:34 am
Just unbelievable how fast things have moved with Joe Paterno.
Coaching/coach for life……… Disgrace/fired ……… Illness/dies……… All within a few months.
Sad state of affairs
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 22nd, 2012
10:37 am
Moe Berg, agreed.
Our 90 million payroll is adequate. Except for the fact that Frank Wren doesn’t know how to manage it properly.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
There are alot of older guys who are having trouble finding a job. 1 guy I wouldn’t mind seeing come back is JD Drew, yes he’s battled injuries but he would be in a part time role here. Most of these players are gonna have to settle for cheap deals if wanna play still or just retire.
Recently, an National League GM told Cafardo that he believes that Drew can be a great bat off of the bench for an NL team.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
January 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
It didn’t end well, but there’s something to be said for getting to work at the job you like until you die. I’ve seen a lot of bored retired people…
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:39 am
I bet Cody Ross gets more money than JD Drew
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 22nd, 2012
10:42 am
David Ross and Eric Hinske are the only two bench guys I have any confidence in right now. The rest are a bunch of scrubs.
As for what happened to Jo Pa……….disgraceful, the man was and is an honorable, revered football coach.
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
10:43 am
If bench guys were great defenders and good hitters, they wouldn’t be bench guys
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
10:44 am
Paterno will be remembered much more for what he did on the football field than this whole Sandusky thing. We just think so much of it because it’s still fresh
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
10:51 am
Except for David Ross. He could start for 29 other MLB teams, not to mention the Boston Celtics,the Bruins, or the Patriots.
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
10:52 am
JD Drew is a decent option. Do you think he could still handle CF if need be. I would side on no
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:53 am
David Ross could seriously start for the Rays.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
10:55 am
Webster
No JD Drew would only be used in the corners and as a pinch hitter. If the Braves don’t bring anyone else in were basically looking at a Constanza/Durango battle in spring training to be the backup CFer.
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
10:55 am
He could start for 29 other MLB teams, not to mention the Boston Celtics,the Bruins, or the Patriots.
They have won so many consecutive championships. Except for the large gaps when they haven’t won championships.
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
10:58 am
True……… The St Pete Pensioners, the Buccaneers, the Lightning
Webster
January 22nd, 2012
11:00 am
VA could ypu give me the info on Durango?
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
11:02 am
The Davis Cup Team, the USA Ryder Cup Team……………
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:06 am
Manchester United, American Idol, Vince Vaughn’s dodgeball team
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
11:09 am
If he was not afraid of the water he would be kicking Michael Phelps’ butt, too.
Klaus
January 22nd, 2012
11:10 am
15th in payroll and 15th in attendance is good money management. The first thing you want to think of in terms of a baseball team.
You invest to win and bring excitement to your fan base or go open a dry cleaning biz (if your ledger is your design center).
The Braves haven’t done that sine the 90s. Attendance always finds its equilibrium when you trade on your name or your past – in other words it will drift down or up based on results.
The Braves use to be in the top 5 in both attendance and payroll.
Corporate owners are very happy drifting down and running a nice “conservative” operation. Only accountants should be admiring this approach.
Baseball fans, not so much.
And as was said up top the Rays have been winning for a while now, they have an infinitely more exciting product on the field, and they spend less.
The FO in ATL needs to be replaced top to bottom with new faces and new ideas. We have seen all they can do and are now stuck in a extended Groundhog Day scenario.
Bottom line – The Braves are like a better performing version of the Cubs without the attendance figures. They need new blood and a new approach.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
11:12 am
Durango is 25 years old 5′9 155 lbs. Switch Hitter. All Star Minor League Player in 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010 Future’s Game Selection in 2009
Looks like a very speedy Outfielder with ZERO power. Awesome Minor League Player. Check out the stats. Very Very Good. Guess he couldn’t tanslate it to the Major’s but hasn’t been given much of a opportunity. Your Ideal Leadoff man.
2590 Career Minor League PA’s 312/403/361/764 Line 3HR 318BB 306K 175SB 85CS 52 Bunt Hits
65 Career MLB ABs 292/361/292 0HR 7BB 10K 7SB 1CS
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:13 am
I hear David Ross ended the Irish potato famine
Hugo Z Hackenbush
January 22nd, 2012
11:13 am
That comment about Wren mis-managing the payroll is a crock. In 2010, the Braves ranked 11th in payroll efficiency as measured by dollars spent per win, and they ranked 14th last year. If you apply the filter of eliminating teams with less than 87 wins (as Forbes does), they rank even higher.
Klaus
January 22nd, 2012
11:15 am
Put it this way if Uggla stinks it up again this year I would not trust Wren’s judgement on spending upwards of 50mm.
He had 40mm to spend in Dec 2008 and apart from Vaz the rest was pissed away. Giving him the same amount again is more scary than exciting b/c I think he and his cronies have mediocre eyes for talent.
They zig when you should zag, buy when you should sell. Basically he (whole FO really) is the real George Constanza. He/they should do the opposite of what he/they think is the right thing to do.
Up was down, day was night… etc.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
11:15 am
Durango has very impressive numbers in the Minors IMO, what stands out most to me is the BB/K numbers. This guy makes tons of contact to go along with the blazing speed.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
11:18 am
DOB
Do you think Luis Durango has a good chance to win a roster spot in ST?
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:18 am
The only example I can think of Wren “mismanaging” payroll is Lowe. Lowe’s contracat stunk, but it wasn’t crippling. Plus, when you inherit a pitching staff anchored by Buddy Carlyle and Jorge Campillo, giving a big deal to Lowe, who was coming off a 3.24 ERA season, was necessary.
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:21 am
Put it this way if Uggla stinks it up again this year I would not trust Wren’s judgement on spending upwards of 50mm.
Why??? Is he a gypsy? At the time of his contract, Uggla’s consistently put up good power numbers and an OPS over .800 every season. Why wouldn’t you give an extension to a big power hitter entering his prime years?
Not that it matters, but Uggla led the team in HR last year, and hit .296 with an OPS of .948 in the 69 games after his slump. No big deal.
Lew
January 22nd, 2012
11:21 am
The Braves were in the top five in payroll for about five or six years. Some tend to forget (or didn’t bother to actually check on it) that Ted Turner owned the team for fifteen years before he started to spend serious money and then he sold out to TW.
Go look it up.
Lew
January 22nd, 2012
11:23 am
And he was only able to boost payroll to that level because he was pulling in 3 million plus. Not happeneing anymore and hasn’t beeb at that level for a decade or more.
15th in attendance – fifteenth in payroll. Do the math.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
11:25 am
Lew
what do you think of Luis Durango? I posted his stats at 11:12
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:27 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DVAsmrwdtQ
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:28 am
15th in attendance – fifteenth in payroll. Do the math.
Either 15, 0, 225, or 1
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:29 am
Crap….either 30, 0, 225, or 1
I promise I can add
Ray
January 22nd, 2012
11:33 am
I always enjoy the posts of replace these people trade this guy or another guy. sign this guy or that guy. Replace Fredi G. Blah blah blah. And now its replace the whole front office. Really? Okay with who?
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
11:35 am
Mary Stone
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:35 am
Okay with who?
The 1985 Chicago Bears
Bat Masterson
January 22nd, 2012
11:36 am
I was going to ask about 30
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
11:37 am
I got too excited about making a quick witty response I made a mistake and ruined it
Ray
January 22nd, 2012
11:39 am
@Lew, you are correct. The big difference with Turner and the improvements of the Braves came when he backed off and allowed the baseball people to do their jobs. Steinbrenner did the same thing almost at the same time. Some owners, don’t get that. Perfect example is Peter Angelos. They have a weak farm system, big contracts on guys that no one wants and he refuses to allow guys to be traded because how much he likes them. At least LM does not get involved in the various trades etc.
Lew
January 22nd, 2012
11:52 am
Ray – Angelos is a great example of Be Careful What You Wis For With an Individual Owner. Also, The Marlins and Luria, The Astros and McLane, etc.. For that matter, the Phillies had individual ownership all those decades they faced little more than the fultity of watching everyone else win.
Just because you have an individual ownership, it guarantees you nothing in terms of payroll spent.
And the constant whining and griping about payroll and Liberty Media ain’t going to change a thing. As long as their investment is successful enough to make money, they have little incentive to sell – not to mention that of the biggest spending teams this past year.
The top ten spending teams last year -
Yankees – one and out.
Phillies – one and out
Red Sox – Not in playofffs
Angels – Not in playoffs
White Sox – Not in playoffs
Cubs – Not in playoffs
Mets – Not in playoffs
Giants – Not in playoffs
Twins – Not in playoffs
Tigers – Only high payroll team to make win a playoff series – didn’t make World Series
Guess spending all that money doesn’t really guarantee you anything, does it?
brian
January 22nd, 2012
11:54 am
I am suprised that Scutaro was traded to the Rockies for a AAAA pitcher. The Red Sox needed to move the money but now will have a big hole at SS to fill. Scutaro can play 2B for the Rockies but the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the Rockies will see if they can flip him for Prado.
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
12:08 pm
brian
Scutaro still wouldn’t be enough for Prado… We would still ask for Wheeler or more.
Disgusted
January 22nd, 2012
12:20 pm
Bat Masterson—Cannot compare the two eras of Dominique and Joe Johnson.
Dominique was a great player who did his best to help take the Hawks as far as he could and he did not have enough around him.
Iso Joe is not the crowd or people pleaser that Dominique was, but truth is that both players did not get the Hawks past the second round.
Joe is underappreciated for his play on the court, and he never said screw the fans. He did make an off the cuff comment that we don;t care if the fans show up. And that was after a tough loss.
I was not offended by it, I took it like hey, if the fans show up or not, one way or another we are going to do our best out there. Had it been framed that way, it would have been better but so what.
Who is better—-cannot compare eras. Both great in their own way.
Dominique just ran into better teams that is all.
brian
January 22nd, 2012
12:22 pm
we would need someone else with scutaro I agree
VaBravesFan
January 22nd, 2012
12:29 pm
I’m pretty excited about Pastornicky getting a shot anyways. If he has a solid rookie season he could end up being our Leadoff man in 2013.
Klaus
January 22nd, 2012
12:33 pm
There is no math to do. They are happy squatting in the middle. Middle of the road is boring, safe and conservative.
Unless you are a Liberty Media shareholder this data point is hardly inspiring.
Fans want to something to cheer about on the field not look at financial mgt stats with reverence & deep fiscal appreciation.
This team underachieves given its payroll and has for some time. They owner is absentee and wouldn’t give them change for bus fare if they asked.
Again nothing to look up there.
This team screams avg and that is why they face plant like clock work and why this and every other Braves blog has elevating levels of negativity.
You can piss up a rope for so long with excuses but it always drips back down in your face in the end.
One fact we all know the Braves (a former baseball dynasty) sit home in October with alarming regularity. Look that up.
jeffrey doo doo
January 22nd, 2012
12:35 pm
There is no math to do. They are happy squatting in the middle. Middle of the road is boring, safe and conservative.
The Cardinals were middle of the road last year.
Ray
January 22nd, 2012
12:37 pm
@Lew, You proved my point. Its not how much you spend. Its HOW you spend it.
Ray
January 22nd, 2012
12:40 pm
@Klaus, please share a few specifics you would like for the Braves to do.
Klaus
January 22nd, 2012
12:45 pm
Braves blog not Cards blog, moot point.
If a kid gets an F on test knowing Bobby Johnson got a F as well does nothing to change the facts. Maybe it makes he feel better but not for long.
The Cards also have more WS rings and more playoff wins (I believe) vs ATL.
Again moot point b/c this is a Braves blog.
I don’t expect them to win it all but their plodding approach and this leadership team are a predictable as the sunrise and not in a good way.
I don’t expect much from this club under Liberty or this FO but please don’t send “letters” to fans or make idiotic or contradictory comments about how much you like your team. It just stokes fires.
Talk less, do more and if you run out of ideas sit down and give someone else a chance. Lifetime employment in the FO (or at least until you want to step down) should not be the rule. No one on this team has the recent (as in 10+ years) track record to warrant such job security.