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3,779 comments Add your comment
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
1:37 pm
Efrim-
Neither of those teams have a QB to speak of (as of now) but they do have a lot of talent. I still think the Niners are much, much better than anyone else in the division, but it will be tougher next season
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
1:38 pm
NHL…16 out of 30. Hurricanes benefited in 2006 (winning the cup, baby) by being division winner, seeded #3, with only the 5th or 6th best record in the conference. Along with some upsets, it resulted in home ice advantage throughout the playoffs.
MFin04
January 19th, 2012
1:39 pm
I love how Darvish’s dad asks for patience in letting his son adjust to the culture and all that crap. Unfortunately, when you cost your team $120 million, you aren’t allotted time to develop. You should already be an All-Star/Cy Young caliber pitcher. You can’t take that type of money and not expect high expectations from the beginning.
And please dear Lord, don’t let them change the playoff format. It actually makes the playoffs worse, not better.
abwright
January 19th, 2012
1:39 pm
MLB should return to divisionless National League and divisionless American League (and get rid of the DH while they’re at it). Just seed the top six teams in each league by record.
This would somewhat return to the purist’s vision of baseball, while giving in to the revenue generator of more playoff teams and games.
Win-Win.
flange1
January 19th, 2012
1:39 pm
N8, Lew and Tenn Paul,
Not trying to get in the middle of your discussion, but I think I agree with both sides of this.
I think Lew is right that some fans had higher expectations of potential Braves moves than what any of us really thought would happen.
ANd yes, I think the team is better this year than last even if it is by subtraction.
BUT,
With management coming out and saying that they would get another OF, that Heyward was not guaranteed a job and that they would make changes, WHICH THEY DID NOT, the team led fans down the wrong path.
They promised and then failed to deliver.
I think Ten Paul is spot on with wanting his team to be better in EVERY respect. The draft, the minors, the coaches, the players, heck even the hotdogs at Turner Field SHOULD be the best they can be every game, every day and every year.
I think all fans can be upset with the Braves this off season because they did not follow through on what they promised.
Still think the team is a good one that has a chance to make the playoffs, they might even win the division.
Efrim
January 19th, 2012
1:40 pm
Raymond C (OH)
What kind of ceiling does Braves prospect Joe Terdoslavich have?
Klaw (1:35 PM)
Bench guy.
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
1:41 pm
abwright-
In my opinion, if a team is that much better than the one they are playing, it should not really matter if they open at home or on the road. Superior talent should be able to overcome a perceived home field advantage. (I really don’t like the one game playoff by the way)
Fleming
January 19th, 2012
1:42 pm
Shaun
Then how would you do the playoffs in a not so perfect world? The scenario where the Braves when 95 as a second place team in a strong division is not as likely as the Braves winning 88 games as a second place team within a very strong division where the teams beat up on each other and a not as good team wins 95 in a weak division and gets the home field. Can’t really go by won/loss records when determining the best teams.
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
1:42 pm
abwright – Co-sign on eliminating the DH…But there’s not a chance in hell it will happen.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
1:43 pm
I wouldnt’ say the Braves failed to deliver, because this isn’t over yet. Fans have to be patient. Just like last off-season, the position you need to upgrade is not always the strong positions in free agency.
There were not a lot of solid guys this year unless you look to replace Freddie Freeman with Albert or Prince….and that wasn’t the need.
We had the need for a CF last off-season and with patience it brought Bourn over during the year.
If we struggle, the Braves will do something but honestly…….the crap that was involved in this year’s pool…..was not going to push us over the top anyways.
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
1:44 pm
Shaun – You can use won-loss records if you have a ballanced schedule.
Efrim
January 19th, 2012
1:45 pm
I think Ten Paul is spot on with wanting his team to be better in EVERY respect. The draft, the minors, the coaches, the players, heck even the hotdogs at Turner Field SHOULD be the best they can be every game, every day and every year.
Agreed. Taking off a year does not equal sustained success. I find it hilarious when people say “Well, we have a ton of young talent at the big league level, so therefore we don;’t have to draft as well”. That doesn’t make any sense.
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
1:46 pm
Fols – But don’t you see…You’ve got to make a trade, no matter how crappy the pool. Don’t you read the blog?
Fleming
January 19th, 2012
1:46 pm
Wonder if the lack of signings that Wren predicted had anything to do with not getting anyone to take on more than 5 mil of Lowe’s salary?
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
1:47 pm
Yeah, but he has never pitched in the majors.
Russell Bell, right. But no free agent signed this off-season has played in the majors in 2012, 2013 and beyond. They are in the same boat as Darvish. Teams must project what they are likely to be worth in 2012, 2013 and beyond and give a contract based on this.
“The Rangers are crazy imo. I don’t expect Darvish to do much better over here than Dice K has since he arrived.”
Why? Have you seen Darvish more than Rangers scouts and evaluators and do you have more information than they do?
Plus, of course there are risks with Japanese players and other players who don’t have a major league track record. Does that mean teams shouldn’t take risks with players who have displayed remarkable baseball skills in other leagues, if those teams can afford it? Teams that don’t take risks when they have an opportunity to win and when they can afford it, don’t win championships. If the Rangers win a Series and Darvish is merely a number 3 or 4 type pitcher instead of an ace or a really good number 2, do you think anyone will or should be all that concern that they over-payed for a player?
Fols
January 19th, 2012
1:47 pm
I would be shocked to no end if baseball had the balls to pull a move like…….ONE LEAGUE, ONE RACE TO THE PLAYOFFS.
You know one of these major sports has got to go that route eventually. At the very least……TWO LEAGUES! lol
I would applaud baseball if it scrapped divisions just because of today’s sports, those few great rivalries are just watered down. Spread the love, open this thing up!
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
1:47 pm
Efrim – I agree about being the best we can be in every way…best way to head in that direction is to increase revenue (attendance).
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
1:48 pm
abwright-
I know it was just an example, but how could the Padres win the West with 80 wins if the Giants finished 2nd to the Braves with 100? They are in the same division
Gil In Mechanicsville
January 19th, 2012
1:48 pm
Good afternoon folks, nice to be on the sunnyside of the sod…
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
1:49 pm
I’ve always been a fan of scrapping MLB divisions and going back to the way it used to be. Know it will never happen, but it would be more fun
MFin04
January 19th, 2012
1:50 pm
Even if the Braves players do bounce back next year, the NL East where the majority of their games are played, has gotten substantially better. So to not upgrade this team, there are worries that they will lose even more against this year within the division.
Fleming
January 19th, 2012
1:50 pm
raleighbravefan – best way to head in that direction is to increase revenue (attendance).
Or sign a big TV deal
Mountain Braves Fan
January 19th, 2012
1:50 pm
If MLB wants the five best teams from each league to (1) make the playoffs and (2) be seeded fairly, then they should go to a balanced league schedule and eliminate divisions.
Divisions came about at a time when teams traveled from city to city by train, so it was important to be geographically close to your opponents for a higher percentage of games. We have airplanes now.
Not really equitable when strong teams like Texas and New York play 18 games against weak division teams like Oakland and Baltimore. I know there is something to be said for rivals and rivalries, but what could be more fair than every team in the league playing every other team in the league the same number of games? It would be difficult to argue against the top five teams in the standings, playing a balanced league schedule, not being the top five teams in the league.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
1:52 pm
raleighbravefan
I read it daily my friend…..i’m just not all tied up in last years results like some people are. To me I think Lowe leaving is an upgrade, I know people hate the ‘ifs’ but I just can’t see the offense doing as poorly with Bourn here right from the start and no odd newby performance from Uggla. We should start the year much better instead of relying on that middle run we went on. I worry about SS, don’t get me wrong, it’s a rookie and i’m not a Wilson fan but really………I know Heyward is way too prospect pumped for Braves to give up so i’m not kidding myself that he wasn’t going to get another crack at it. To worry about one position isn’t too shabby in baseball. Usually a team has holes… I don’t want to sound like we need to plug a huge contract in every spot or i’d be a Yankee.
I have no problems with the pitching what-so-ever. You always hope for health there.
Fleming
January 19th, 2012
1:53 pm
Mountain Braves Fan – It would be difficult to argue against the top five teams in the standings, playing a balanced league schedule, not being the top five teams in the league.
Except that it would make us Easterners sleepy at work a lot more after those late west coast games.
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
1:54 pm
Fleming and raleighbravefan, using win-loss records is the most reasonable way to determine who plays in that one-game playoff. Nobody said it was perfect. It’s just better than the possibility of having a truly great team forced into a one-game playoff while a rather mediocre, clearly inferior division winner gets a pass. Win-loss record is just a better way, not a perfect way. I do realize that sometimes an 88-win team may be as good as a 95-win team, in certain instances (mostly because of strength of schedule and getting fortunate or less fortunate in flukey close games). But I think win-loss record is the most reasonable way to determine seeding. More reasonable is better than not reasonable at all.
MFin04
January 19th, 2012
1:55 pm
Balanced schedule and 6 playoff teams makes much more sense.
5 teams just adds an extra random game which should never have been played in the first.
The one seed ends up playing a much worse team and gets rewarded for winning the league.
flange1
January 19th, 2012
1:56 pm
Hey Gil,
How are you feeling man? We have missed your input!
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
1:56 pm
Fleming, yeah, that’s another thing. I would be all for a balanced schedule, if MLB could make that work.
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
1:57 pm
Fols – Agreed…In fact, it seems obvious….but not to some, of course. I hope you recognized the sarcasm.
ncscoots
January 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
More reasonable is better than not reasonable at all.
How is it, then, that you have never managed to come to that conclusion about yourself, LOL?
Fleming
January 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
MFin04 — Balanced schedule and 6 playoff teams makes much more sense.
Except then you get into Bye weeks and such like the NFL and that doesn’t work too well in Baseball.
Lollygagger
January 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
Divisions came about at a time when teams traveled from city to city by train, so it was important to be geographically close to your opponents for a higher percentage of games. We have airplanes now.
Huh? Didn’t MLB just go to the 3 division setup in each league in early 90s?
Fols
January 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
raleighbravefan…I probably didn’t see sarcasm
I don’t know if I was on the other blog or what but yesterday at lunch i didn’t recognize a single person on here and it was all Braves Hatin music. I’m like……we’re really a legitimate top 10 team in the entire league. Things are not that rough! lol
DAM
January 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
The underlying problem in all the scheduling and playoff debate is the lack of a balanced schedule. I’ve never liked the unbalanced schedule playing teams in your division 12 more times than everyone else you face.
McFann O O o
January 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
Lew—
Oh, OK, I getcha…yeah, last time we were down there was late Oct.-early Nov. 2006…
Russell Bell
January 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
Shaun – I’m simply not convinced Darvish will pitch well in the ML. I can’t quantify my thoughts on the matter. Its just my opinion that he won’t translate into an elite pitcher in the US. I’m not discounting the Rangers’ scouting reports or his numbers over in Japan (nor do I get paid to assess such data).
This is purely my intuition spouting an opinion.
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
2:02 pm
Shaun @1:54 – Isn’t that what I said (with the caviat of needing the ballanced schedule.) Interleague play makes a truly ballanced schedule a lot mor difficult, of course, but then, I detest interleague play.
Ease
January 19th, 2012
2:03 pm
But no free agent signed this off-season has played in the majors in 2012, 2013 and beyond.
Stupidest.Argument.Ever.
ncscoots
January 19th, 2012
2:03 pm
I’m sick and tired of “fair” and “seeding” and all the other eyewash, when it comes to the playoffs. If you finish second in your division, I don’t care how strong it was, or how weak the other divisions were, or what you like in your coffee, or what you dislike about your friends, or any other piece of irrelevant bushwah. Don’t win your division? Suffer. As long as there is an unbalanced schedule and divisions, at all, second-placers should have to live on the ledge.
One-gamer? Me, I love that sucker. If you don’t like it, win your dang division, then.
Fleming
January 19th, 2012
2:04 pm
DAM — I’ve never liked the unbalanced schedule playing teams in your division 12 more times than everyone else you face
What’s even worse is out of division schedule being determined by win/loss record of the previous year in the name of parity as the NFL did at one time (Maybe still?)
McFann O O o
January 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
Shaun But no free agent signed this off-season has played in the majors in 2012, 2013 and beyond.
You mean even with his loot, Pujols still can’t afford a time machine??
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
2:08 pm
Regarding what the Rangers are paying for Darvish, those criticizing the move also have to consider the situation the Rangers are in. They can afford it and they are a serious contender for best team in their league or in the majors, etc., so marginal wins mean more to them. So it’s more reasonable for them to go for a player like Darvish and pay that much than many, perhaps most, other teams.
The situation with Darvish is more complicated than the blanket statement that Darvish isn’t worth what could be a $20 million a year cost to the Rangers. That is a gross oversimplification of the specific situation with the Rangers and Darvish. You can’t generalize a free agent signing as good or bad, across the board. The Yankees or Red Sox or Angels or Rangers paying $20 million a year for one player is clearly not the same as the Braves or Pirates or Diamondbacks or Reds paying $20 million for that same player. I think we all forget that sometimes when it comes to trying to do our own armchair evaluations of free agent signings.
DS1
January 19th, 2012
2:11 pm
Good to see that “Gil from Mechanicsville” moniker on the board again!
How ya doing?
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
2:14 pm
nn @2:05 – Very Funny!
Fols
January 19th, 2012
2:15 pm
Any of you guys from outside of Atlanta pick a series to travel to yet?
Man I cannot for the life of me pick a good vacation spot that matches up to my summer schedule. One thing I won’t be doing is booking a weekday series….ballparks just aren’t the same empty!
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
2:16 pm
nn should have been McFann
Mountain Braves Fan
January 19th, 2012
2:21 pm
Lollygagger
January 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
Divisions came about at a time when teams traveled from city to city by train, so it was important to be geographically close to your opponents for a higher percentage of games. We have airplanes now.
Huh? Didn’t MLB just go to the 3 division setup in each league in early 90s?
Just testing to see if anyone was paying attention. I believe divisions came about in 1969, when due to expansion there were twelve teams in each league. There were two divisions, East and West, in each league. The Braves were in the NL West with SF, CIN, LAD, HOU, and SD. Braves lost three straight games to the Mets in the NLCS, and the Mets beat Baltimore 4 games to 1 in the World Series.
Venice Jim
January 19th, 2012
2:21 pm
I really hope is it pouring rain on Sunday. Not only does it slow down the Giants WR’s, but also their speed rushers on defense.
So what you’re saying, in effect, is that your team is inferior and needs whatever help it can get…
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:24 pm
We don’t need the help. But you can’t say that you wouldn’t be hoping for snow if the game was in NY, can you?
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
2:25 pm
Russell Bell, I understand it’s your opinion on Darvish. But while you’re at it, why not single out any other or every other free agent? Their futures are all a mystery. All we have to go on are scouting reports, performance data and medicals; and only the Rangers have access to all of that. At least with other free agents, we have access to past performance and we might have a few news stories concerning injury history. With Darvish we have none of that. The Rangers have much more information than we do. All that we know about Darvish is that he dominated Japanese baseball and the scouts and people with scouting backgrounds really like him. So I tend to believe that he’s likely to be at least a solid number 2 type pitcher. I tend to spout my opinions based on Darvish’s performance and opinion of experts, not just based on the fact that Dice-K was a Japanese pitcher and so is Darvish.
ncscoots, that’s fine if you don’t care if a great team is forced into a one-game playoff while a mediocre team gets a pass in that round. I think a few of us would prefer for 162 games to mean a little more and would prefer to see the best possible teams have the best chances to win it all.
It’s rather arbitrary to give a distinct disadvantage in the playoffs to a 95-win AL East team and not give that same or a more severe disadvantage to a 90-win AL Central team. Clearly superior teams shouldn’t have to suffer simply because of geography. If this season Tampa Bay is a 95-win wild card team, for instance, you can say they should have won the division if they didn’t want to suffer. To that, I’d say, yeah, and they should have torn themselves off of the Florida coast and put themselves in the middle of the country. As long as MLB is letting multiple teams into the playoffs, the advantage and disadvantages teams have in the playoffs should not depend on something as arbitrary as geography, something that no team has control over. It should depend on something like win-loss record.
DS1
January 19th, 2012
2:25 pm
Jim/cab
You folks must be in a quandry down there.
Hillbilly
January 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
Gil…a welcome sight indeed.
DS1
January 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
Glad to see you back Shaun……… I think.
Venice Jim
January 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
I’m always hoping for snow, even in domes, just because it’s fun to watch…
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
DS1-
No quandry. He has his opinion, I have mine
We shall see who is right…
McFann O O o
January 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
Thanks, Raleighbravesfan!
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:28 pm
Actually, I’d love to see it snow in a dome too…
Venice Jim
January 19th, 2012
2:28 pm
Quandary…
McFann O O o
January 19th, 2012
2:28 pm
It did snow in the dome in Minnesota last year, didn’t it…?
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
McFann-
Sort of
Venice Jim
January 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
I don’t have an opinion as to which team will definitely win – there’s no question of “right” – just favor a certain outcome…
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
I (and everyone else, I imagine) would prefer to see it without the collapsing roof though
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:32 pm
“right” was not the best word…we will see who comes out on top. Either way, I will have a team to cheer for in the Super Bowl, so it’s not all bad
Fols
January 19th, 2012
2:35 pm
At least the Twins escaped from that dome…it’s terrible in there! Let it snow!
Which if any of you get a chance, next time the Braves roll through I highly recommend the Twins new park! It’s amazing……and I witnessed a suicide squeeze win off the bat of Conrad. So i’m assuming that happens everytime you hit up Minni!
Ease
January 19th, 2012
2:38 pm
there’s no question of “right” – just favor a certain outcome
Most guys on here have no idea what the word “right” means anyway (genderly speaking)…
Lollygagger
January 19th, 2012
2:44 pm
On the NFL discussion: Not saying that SF is a bad team by any means, but think about this: The 49ers forced the Saints into 5 turnovers…and then STILL needed a score in the final minute or two in order to eek out a win. That clearly shows that they cannot put good teams away. So, yeah, I would definitely say they are gonna need some help to beat the Gigantes.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
2:45 pm
Expectations Dude. Outrageously inflated hopes and dreams have a way of leaving you disappointed.
“Outrageously inflated hopes and dreams.” Outrageously over stated, Lew. What I looked for this off-season was rooted in the following statements.
We’re going to go into the offseason (keeping) in mind that we’ve got to have offensive production from right field. And we didn’t get that this year….
[The Braves biggest needs to fill this offseason are outfield and shortop] and utility infield. You’re always looking to add depth to your bench. [The payroll will be] generally the same, maybe a little increase.”
–Frank Wren
Outrageous!
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
2:46 pm
me too. i think the offense is better
Considering nothing has been done to the offense, I find it hard to see how Wren has “improved” it. It could be healthy and perform as such but Wren has not improved the offense this off-season.
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:47 pm
Lollygagger-
I don’t think it clearly shows they can’t put good teams away. It showed that the Saints offense is very very good and that they never quit.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
SF isn’t flashy…but that D can play ball. I don’t think they should be overly concerned…play their style of football and let everyone think they’ll lose. What happened in the 4th quarter against the Saints was just great comeback football and they got the last laugh. They were the better team and deserve to be in the NFC Championship game.
DS1
January 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
The Cardinals weren’t the best team in baseball last year, and they won the World Serious. The Niners are pretty darned good. The best team? Not sure.
But I still hope they prevail.
Efrim
January 19th, 2012
2:49 pm
If you finish second in your division, I don’t care how strong it was, or how weak the other divisions were, or what you like in your coffee, or what you dislike about your friends, or any other piece of irrelevant bushwah. Don’t win your division? Suffer.
A shame. It really shouldn’t be that black and white. But I guess it will be okay for the Braves to not make the playoffs because Mike Minor has to start that one gamer while the Giants throw Matt Cain. Every single year the Braves will have to KNOW they are fighting through a 162 game schedule so that it can come down to Mike Minor throwing that one game.
DS1
January 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
I personally watch very little NFL football, but I was REALLY impressed by Brees last weekend.
Though I am glad the 49′ers won, I became a fan of Drew Brees.
Lollygagger
January 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
cabravesfan-
Just friendly chatter here, not meaning any disrespect or trash talking.
….but, normally most teams that force the opposition into 5 turnovers wins the game pretty easily. I will grant you this: the Saints arent your typical offense, so that had something to do with it. But still- 5 turnovers and they almost win? I think your 9ers are in trouble this week because the Giants are WAY better on defense than Saints.
DAP
January 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
lollygagger The 49ers forced the Saints into 5 turnovers…and then STILL needed a score in the final minute or two in order to eek out a win. That clearly shows that they cannot put good teams away.
i dont really see it that way. the 9ers got it done their way. turnovers and just enough offense. that last scoring drive was a thing of beauty, and clutch.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
“Heyward is not guaranteed a starting job.” “We need offensive production from right field.” The biggest off-season need is outfield…
What ever specific course of action the team would take, all those statements tend to imply that something is going to be done to address the outfield. At least, more than nothing would be done.
JRW
January 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
I see this new wild card play in game this year being between the Braves and the Dodgers. IMO the Division winners will be Philly, Cincinnati and Arizona with the Dodgers and Braves the two WC’s. That will make it hard for the Braves to get the Home game because the Dodgers will have a much easier division schedule and will most likely have a better overall record. Just thinking ahead about nine months.
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
The offense should be better because half the regulars preformed well below expectations. The guys who may have exceeded expectations, didn’t really exceed by much.
Chipper and Freeman are about the only guys that might have worse offensive seasons in 2012 than they did in 2011. If they do, I don’t think it will be a dramatic downturn.
Efrim
January 19th, 2012
2:54 pm
So, yeah, I would definitely say they are gonna need some help to beat the Gigantes.
Agreed. As much as people want to sit there and say defense wins championships, that’s so friggin bogus. QB play, a pass rush, coaching – in that order. Sadly, the Giants have the Niners on all 3. The NFL is geared towards the QB. There was an absurd amount of holding by the Saints offensive lineman in that game and none of it was called. I think Manning has a good chance to carve up the Niners average pass defense. But, we’ll see.
I still like my Niners to face the Patriots in the Super Bowl and lose on a fast track in Indy.
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
Lollygagger-
That’s 49er football. Its the way they’ve played all year. They won that game because they forced the Saints to play (at least until the very end) the way THEY wanted to play. The Giants are a much better defensive team than the Saints, but their offense is not as high powered (not to say they are not outstanding- they are and Eli has been playing great). It should be a good game. I am not giving this one to the Niners, but I won’t say they are going to be “in trouble” either. Think it will be a great game.
DAP
January 19th, 2012
2:56 pm
10paul Considering nothing has been done to the offense, I find it hard to see how Wren has “improved” it. It could be healthy and perform as such but Wren has not improved the offense this off-season.
tyler pastornicky will be better than gonzalez, and a full season of bourn will be better than what we had in CF prior to that. there are your improvements, not to mention the likely improvements from career down years, slumps, injuries, ect.
not like its a vast improvement, or wren did all that much, but the offense will almost certainly be better.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
2:56 pm
TennesseePaul
Close BUT…
Bourn was acquired mid season with every indication that it was for last year and THIS year. I think that is being over-looked into this spring. Having him on base from the start will give the 2nd hitter a more comfortable approach at the plate with him bouncing around.
Also on Wren is our own prospects. Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward. FF is as solid as they come at the plate, his experience from last year will help him grow. If either of those two or maybe both provide a better year than last year…….that should go to Wren.
Everyone hated Gonzo…..hated the man……he’s out. Any production from our rookie that is above Gonzo’s terrible stats is for Wren.
I’m not going to give the ‘ifs’ about Prado, Chip, Mac……although I think each of them will be better……they still are an if. Any extra production is for Wren not hitting the panic button on proven guys.
That leaves Uggla. This is no IF. There is no way in hell he starts as poorly as last year went for nearly as long. He is not going to change much in terms of average and blah blah blah…but a touch more consistancy without the new contract is a given.
Not to mention we have Prado and JJ as back pocket trade pieces for in the season moves….if we pick anyone up……that’s on Wren.
He hasn’t done much, but it has the potential to produce a lot more than last season.
Wild cards obviously are heyward and a rookie.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
2:57 pm
Chipper and Freeman are about the only guys that might have worse offensive seasons in 2012 than they did in 2011.
Short-stop should be in there. I have high hopes for Pastornicky, but it is just as feasible that even less production comes from SS in 2012 than in 2011 if he struggles.
As for the rest of them, it’ll be hard for some of those guys to have a less productive year. Nevertheless, Wren didn’t do anything to improve the offense.
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
I think the something that will be done is signing an outfielder that can play at least a serviceable leftfield while Prado is at third, preferably one that is capable of playing all 3 spots and one that is better than Diaz and Constanza.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
2:59 pm
Bourn was acquired mid season with every indication that it was for last year and THIS year
After Bourn was acquired the team went on to score at a 617 pace. That’s less than 2011’s total.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
3:00 pm
there are your improvements
Those are not improvements made by Wren this off-season. That is what I was talking about. When the season was over, Wren stated the goals and needs. The outfield was one to he listed as an area to improve. Wren did not improve that area this off-season.
DAP
January 19th, 2012
3:00 pm
10paul it is just as feasible that even less production comes from SS in 2012 than in 2011 if he struggles.
actually, i think its pretty hard to imagine that happening.
Lollygagger
January 19th, 2012
3:01 pm
cabravesfan-
fair enough. I don’t have a dog in the fight after last week anyway, so I don’t mind either team winning. I will say this: last week’s finish might have been the best end to a playoff game I’ve seen in a decade or two. Maybe ever. And I disagree- I thought the Saints actually forced the 49ers to play their way with a 4th quarter shootout. Saints usually win shootouts. One problem: The N.O. defense got burned. Badly.
Shaun
January 19th, 2012
3:02 pm
TennesseePaul, I don’t have particularly high hopes for Pastornicky. I don’t have extremely low hopes either. I just think he’ll hit better than Gonzalez and his 76 OPS+.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
3:03 pm
After Bourn was acquired the team went on to score at a 617 pace. That’s less than 2011’s total.
Didn’t Chipper, Mac and Prado all miss a sigificant period in there? I’m sorry but if you remove the middle of an order and even with Uggla/Freeman cookin……it’s hard to compare those stats.
JRW
January 19th, 2012
3:04 pm
DAP – tyler pastornicky will be better than gonzalez
——————————————————————————
Where is the proof of that statement? AGon had 43 extra base hits, 15 home runs and 56 RBI’s Admittedly his average was low at..241, but how can you just anoint TP as a better offensive player not to mention AGon was the 3rd best defensive SS in the NL statistically, and took a lot of pressure off of Chipper who doesn’t cover a lot of real estate any more. IMO the SS position is going to allow a lot more base runners create less DP’s and raise the pitchers ERA’s.and pitch counts.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
3:04 pm
i think its pretty hard to imagine that happening.
I just think he’ll hit better than Gonzalez and his 76 OPS+.
Not too hard. If he gets up there and struggles (say, pulls a Schafer), they’ll send him back down and then it’s on Wilson… he of the 59 OPS+ last season.
cabravesfan
January 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
Lollygagger-
That’s why I said “until the last few minutes”
The first 3 quarters were dictated by the Niner defense. But I do agree that the end was one of the most exciting ends to a game I have seen since…well, since I saw Terrell Owens make a catch like that in the playoffs several years back 
raleighbravefan
January 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
TNPaul – I’m sure Wren had goals, which he stated. I’m sure he persued available options to obtain those goals. I’m also sure that no such options were available within the peramiters of the budget and what he would have to give up, and no improvement (in his opinion at least) was available at a price he deemed to be reasonable…OR ELSE HE WOULD HAVE MADE SUCH A MOVE, AND ALL OF YOU WHINERS COULD SHUT UP. In the mean time, we don’t have a clue what he may do between now and the end of ST, or the trade deadline, for that matter.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
Didn’t Chipper, Mac and Prado all miss a sigificant period in there? I’m sorry but if you remove the middle of an order and even with Uggla/Freeman cookin……it’s hard to compare those stats.
Ah, but Constanza was up, so it all balanced out.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
I disagree Paul…..the guys that start are all Wren’s. Any inprovement from last year to this year is his decision to have them in our line-up.
You don’t just get the credit for fresh blood. Moves NOT made can have just as much impact. You can call it ‘ifs’ all you want but if Prado goes back to a .300 hitter when healthy now…….I hardly doubt many of these years free agent pool would top that production for a similar cost.
DAP
January 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
10paul Those are not improvements made by Wren this off-season. That is what I was talking about.
i wasnt responding to any of your posts when i said the team had improved…i guess somewhere in a thread way back you may have mentioned you wanted wren to do certain things, but im just talking about the team having improved, which i believe it has. how it happened i guess im not all that concerned with as long as the team is better, which i believe it is.
i guess your problem is that you dont think wren did what he promised, so you are bashing the team we have. the team is good…dont be so hung up on wren’s statements.
TennesseePaul
January 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
In the mean time, we don’t have a clue what he may do between now and the end of ST, or the trade deadline, for that matter.
eh, I’ve got a pretty good clue it isn’t going to be anything significant.
Fols
January 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
…but I hear what your saying paul! lol ……I too REALLY would have liked to see an OF brought in…..someone, anyone! We’re going to have injuries and i’m not sold on Heywards lanky wobbly plate approach. Kids massive and he looks like a twig standing 4 ft off the plate. Freeman is the same size and stands in there like he belongs.