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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
4,215 comments Add your comment
ncscoots
January 12th, 2012
11:30 am
just that [Pastornicky is] being handed a starting job he hasn’t earned through competition.
The minors don’t count as competition?
ncscoots
January 12th, 2012
11:31 am
They take another college LHP, and I am outta here.
You’ll be behind me, but I’ll hold the door open, LOL.
Patrick
January 12th, 2012
11:33 am
Coach (2012 Fredi’s beisbol fandango)
January 12th, 2012
10:10 am
Anybody know whats wrong with this picture?
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/team/depth_chart/index.jsp?c_id=atl
I really would like to see the Braves re-sign Jack Wilson
DawgDad
January 12th, 2012
11:33 am
J-Man: Perhaps, but at least for now it’s clear Wren and the senior management attribute the collapse to bad health and poor production, hoping for a rebound this season. Personally, I agree that’s the main reason (we all witnessed the horror), but I do wonder if some other manager wouldn’t have fared better.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
11:37 am
You’ll be behind me, but I’ll hold the door open, LOL.
I’d be running with steam coming out of my ears. No joke. 6′4” 195 lbs, RHP from a prep high school or a prep hitter, preferrably an outfielder. Heck, even a college outfielder would be better than a LHP from an ACC or SEC school for crying out loud.
Should of friggin take Mahtook….
DawgDad
January 12th, 2012
11:41 am
“The minors don’t count as competition?”
Historically, teams purportedly competing for a playoff spot do not just hand the starting shortstop job to an untested rookie going into Spring Training, especially one lacking “can’t miss” qualifications. [The Red Sox TRADED Hanley Ramirez, remember?]. This is something bottom-feeder teams with no other options do, and normally they have other veterans hanging around. I guess though a 10-20 September does create a bottom-feeding perspective.
JRW
January 12th, 2012
11:41 am
I suppose any team would be hurting more with their 1 & 2 out. I.E. Johnson for the Marlins. My point is everyone here is pretty familiar with the Braves Minor Leagues, but not as much with the others in the NL East. The Phillies brought up a lot of strong arms from the Farm System last year, so we can,t just assume there aren’t strong arms in the Opponents Farm Systems.
STRETCH
January 12th, 2012
11:45 am
DawgDad,
Yep, its the same lineup except for Gonzales at SS and the hitting coach. They dont have money so they have to move pieces around. My take:
Wasnt it Chipper Jones who “lost the ball in the lights” at night in Florida?
Wasnt it FG who trotted Derek Lowe out on a night when they had to have that game?
Wasnt it FG who ran the bullpen in the ground?
Wasnt it almost the entire team who forgot how to hit?
It amazes me how laid back they are and how some people are scapegoates after the epic “Tomahawk Choke” last season.
No matter how you move the chairs around on the Titanic, its STILL a sinking ship!
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
11:48 am
Should of friggin take Mahtook….
Co-sign! Saw him for a few years at LSU, and of all the great players that have come through there he quickly raced to the top of the list for me. Just something about the kid. Runs out every single play as if something big and bad is chasing him. Skill set reminds me a lot of Johnny Damon- good average, decent (not great) power, good speed, good defense and just has that hustling ballplayer mentality. Man I wish Braves had drafted him. I might have to become a part-time Rays player in a couple of years when he makes it to the MLB club.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
11:48 am
The Phillies brought up a lot of strong arms from the Farm System last year, so we can,t just assume there aren’t strong arms in the Opponents Farm Systems.
Phillies have two very close to being ready bullpen arms in Justin De Fratus and Phillipe Aumont. RHP’s with big velocity. Both should play a factor in their pen in 2012.
ncscoots
January 12th, 2012
11:48 am
Historically, teams purportedly competing for a playoff spot do not just hand the starting shortstop job to an untested rookie going into Spring Training, especially one lacking “can’t miss” qualifications.
And if the team were looking for said rookie to be an impact player, you might have some justification for your angst. But I can’t fathom that you think The Rev is the fulcrum on which the team’s fortunes will pivot. I mean, you don’t, not really, right?
Unless he’s a total bust with both the bat and the glove, Pastornicky isn’t going to move the needle one way or the other. And, if he IS a total bust, he isn’t going to get 600 PAs that would doom the team.
abwright
January 12th, 2012
11:49 am
I hope Wren flips Minor for a decent backup OF or SS, if for no other reason than it might bring back Efrim and Scoots from the ledge.
raleighbravefan
January 12th, 2012
11:49 am
All is lost. Cancel the season.
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
11:50 am
part-time Rays fan, that should have read… stupid fingers.
Arkansas Transplant
January 12th, 2012
11:50 am
Hillbilly, don’t know why they removed Dennis Johnson, Wingo is best served as a receiving back.
Michael B
January 12th, 2012
11:51 am
Someone on the mlbtraderumors.com chat yesterday (probably an Orioles fan) suggested a Teheran for Adam Jones trade and the mediator said he could see that working for both sides. Am I missing something with Adam Jones? I could see a deal for him at the right price (maybe Vizcaino) but it seems to me the Orioles win big if they get Teheran.
abwright
January 12th, 2012
11:53 am
Given how the FA class has stalled, I have to think that Braves could pick up an OF or SS from the FA market without spending the big, big bucks. I suspect that that was Wren’s plan all along. I doubt the Rev is really their plan A even now.
But, I’m sure he has to say, “We’re ready to go,” so that those agents representing such FAs won’t count on the Braves as a lock and therefore decide to drop the price as early retirement for their client looms.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
11:53 am
Mahtook plays with his hair on fire. I liked him. Also like Levi Mitchell from UNC and Henry Owens. But, I don’t hate Gilmartin pick as much as just our overall draft strategy 2009-2011.
Michael B
January 12th, 2012
11:54 am
Anybody have an idea of what it would take to get Maicer Izturis from the Angels?
ncscoots
January 12th, 2012
11:55 am
I hope Wren flips Minor for a decent backup OF or SS, if for no other reason than it might bring back Efrim and Scoots from the ledge.
I’m actually OK with Minor (too late to worry about the fact that the team could have drafted Mike Trout in that spot, LOL). He’s shown some progress, and I think he’ll be excellent at the back of a rotation. As long as no one starts thinking he should pitch at 2 or 3, he’ll be fine.
Having said that, he isn’t the type of guy who would be hard to replace, if the day comes that the team wants to move him.
abwright
January 12th, 2012
11:55 am
I thought Teheran was considered a potential top of the rotation starter. Six years of a #1 starter for four years of a guy who hasn’t put it together yet (A. Jones)?
I haven’t watched Jones play, but his stats don’t scream that he’s a fantastic player. Maybe he has upside, but the number of tradeable years in which he can realize that upside are dwindling, whereas Braves don’t have to start Teheran’s clock until next year.
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
11:56 am
All this Adam Jones talk is sorta silly anyways, isn’t it? I mean, if the Braves trade for Jones, and Prado isn’t in the deal- then that essentially forces Prado to the bench doesn’t it? Unless Braves know something we don’t and are not planning on Chipper playing a whole lot at 3B in 2012… or Prado is flipped in a separate deal that nets a backup INF. Without a Prado deal, Adam Jones just doesn’t work for Braves situation.
abwright
January 12th, 2012
11:58 am
too late to worry about the fact that the team could have drafted Mike Trout in that spot, LOL
So, the Braves could have hooked Trout if they had wanted him but took Minor instead?
DAP
January 12th, 2012
12:00 pm
scoots The minors don’t count as competition?
no way, they dont even keep score down there, do they?
ncscoots
January 12th, 2012
12:01 pm
So, the Braves could have hooked Trout if they had wanted him but took Minor instead?
Remember, Braves were picking 7th that year. Heck, everybody was still on the board.
In fairness, the ML pitching was still iffy at that point and the Latin Trio were far, far away. So, a high-floor guy who could be ready quickly…well, I can understand the reasoning, at least, even if I disagree with it.
Hillbilly
January 12th, 2012
12:01 pm
Hillbilly, don’t know why they removed Dennis Johnson, Wingo is best served as a receiving back.
I remember DJ taking a helmet to the potatoes while trying to hurdle a defender on one run. Didn’t see him much after that. Good to hear Knile Davis is coming back next season. We’ve got the personnell and the potential to be just as good next season as we were this year…if not better.
TennesseePaul
January 12th, 2012
12:04 pm
Braves gave up 1/2 year of Texieria and a draft pick in exchange for a full year of Krotchman/Laroche and salary relief.
Not a good trade, but certainly not “worst trade ever.”
The Braves gave up a half season of the single biggest impact bat in the majors, a switch hitter at that, who could play defense and was in his prime, for a …. Casey Kotchman and no draft picks.
The Mets gave up a half season of a broken down injury plagued out-fielder with bad knees on the wrong side of 30, a DL trip waiting to happen, for … the top pitcher in the Giants farm system.
TennesseePaul
January 12th, 2012
12:06 pm
In fairness, the ML pitching was still iffy at that point and the Latin Trio were far, far away. So, a high-floor guy who could be ready quickly…well, I can understand the reasoning, at least, even if I disagree with it.
The Latin Trio is basically arriving at the same time as that polished lefty.
Hillbilly
January 12th, 2012
12:06 pm
In fairness, the ML pitching was still iffy at that point and the Latin Trio were far, far away. So, a high-floor guy who could be ready quickly…well, I can understand the reasoning, at least, even if I disagree with it.
That word was being thrown around alot at the time, too. You know the one I’m talking about… “signability.”
TennesseePaul
January 12th, 2012
12:07 pm
When I think of bumping into Frank Wren, it would go something like this concerning the Teixeira trade…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUwSxqnRW-8
TennesseePaul
January 12th, 2012
12:12 pm
You know the one I’m talking about… “signability.”
synonyms: Cheap. Penny-Pinching, Chintsy, close-fisted, acquisitive, avaricious, chary, churlish, costive, curmudgeonly, scurvy, scrimping…
ncscoots
January 12th, 2012
12:13 pm
The Latin Trio is basically arriving at the same time as that polished lefty.
And I think we can agree that those three young men have had an accelerated path through the minors, over the last couple of years. At the time Minor was drafted, Teheran had not made a start above rookie league, Delgado was in low A forking over a 4+ ERA, and Vizcaino wasn’t even a Brave.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 12th, 2012
12:16 pm
Lollygagger, this whole offseason has been silly. I mean out of the rumors for us it’s been Smith and A.Jones. The thought of either don’t exactly make you want to go pee pee with excitement.
Worst offseason ever. Just awful when you consider how our season ended. We Braves fans have been put through a lot the last several months, haven’t we?
DAP
January 12th, 2012
12:17 pm
10paul The Latin Trio is basically arriving at the same time as that polished lefty.
minor made 9 starts in 2010, 15 in 2011, and will be the 5th starter in 2012, while the others will still be in the minors…how do you figure they arrived at the same time?
Steve from OH
January 12th, 2012
12:20 pm
Should of friggin take Mahtook…
I’ve been saying that since draft day!
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
12:25 pm
ChattTownBrian-
Yes, we Braves fans have been through the ringer the last several months starting with the collapse! I feel like the end of last season and this offseason has aged me 10 years… Praise be to Jesus that college baseball hits the diamond in just a few weeks. As usual, I will go home a few weekends here and there through the spring and watch LSU kick some boo-tay. My family still has season tickets at The Box. At least I’ll be able to put that butt whooping my Tiger football team just endured behind me in mid-February.
Ease
January 12th, 2012
12:28 pm
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
So by all accounts it sounds as if Fielders options are possibly down to just Wash and FLA..albeit with others on the outskirts just in case
WHAT?! Seriously, FLA is still in play here?
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
12:29 pm
My question now is: If it was crystal clear to most of us fans at the time, then why didn’t the Braves see this too and draft Mahtook? I mean, at time of draft we were (and still are) absolutely stacked a mile high at the pitching position and were (and still are) absolutely stripped bare of great OF prospects. Why the heck did we take another pitcher?
vesaversa
January 12th, 2012
12:30 pm
Just imagine how much Chipper 18 millions this year would have help the Braves compete in getting the players they needed to be competitive with the likes of Florida the and the Phllies.I really appreciate Chipper service to the Braves it’s been a fun ride but there come a time for future HAF players like him to step down so the team can grow .
Lew
January 12th, 2012
12:34 pm
Maybe I’ve taken it all in stride because if I added ten years, I’d be in serious trouble.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 12th, 2012
12:36 pm
Well just how cute is that … Nats and Fish. He couldn’t go to a team outside this division could he.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
12:39 pm
WHAT?! Seriously, FLA is still in play here?
The way that organization and owner works, it wouldn’t surprise me to see them sign Fielder, move Gaby to third base and trade Hanley. It’s a bizarre team.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
12:39 pm
And to trade Hanley for next to nothing…..
Lew
January 12th, 2012
12:39 pm
First of all, Chipper isn’t making $18 million and second of all, the Marlins will be lucky to compete with the Braves this year. They’ve improved, yes – they HAD to – but probably not enough.
TennesseePaul
January 12th, 2012
12:47 pm
minor made 9 starts in 2010, 15 in 2011, and will be the 5th starter in 2012, while the others will still be in the minors…how do you figure they arrived at the same time?
By the qualifier term “basically”
Interestingly, the Latin trio made 10 starts last season and pitched in 39 games. If Jurrjens were traded they’d be in the competition to take the open spot.
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
12:49 pm
Reyes and Buerhle don’t scare me. One will be injured before July and the other will find this a tougher division to dominate than the one from which he came. Bell is a stud and is a force in that bullpen…if they have some leads for him late. So while they have certainly gotten better on paper, I wouldn’t say they are ready for NL East titles just yet. Or even 2nd place for that matter.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
12:56 pm
If Jurrjens were traded they’d be in the competition to take the open spot.
I wonder if it’s going to happen. I’d be pretty surprised at this point, but ya never know I guess.
brian
January 12th, 2012
12:56 pm
many still undervalue Minor. granted he will never be a #1 or #2 starter, but a very good #4 starter or a #3 starter that is a lefty is highly valued in MLB. Look at the contracts some of these guys are getting. We have 6 years of control of Minor (and Gilmartin for that matter). We also have plenty of candidates to be our #1,2,and 3 starters for years to come – Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Beachy, Medlen (Medlen could easily be a #3 starter)
Lew
January 12th, 2012
12:58 pm
Lollygagger – Not to mention that since September 4 of 2010, Josh Johnson has missed 30 starts – and since the middle of May, 2011, has not even pitched ina MLB game.
Never figured why so many were so concerned about Jurrjens and his knee issues not coming back, but are certain that Johnson, despite nine bouts of either shoulder or forearm inflammation in his career and missing an entire season the past two with shoulder issues, will be just fine.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
12:58 pm
Rays signed DH Luke Scott to a one-year, $6 million contract with a $6 million club option for 2013.
Scott will probably hit 30 for them and Fernando Rodney will probably strikeout 10 per 9 innings……Friedman’s touch.
JRW
January 12th, 2012
1:03 pm
Efrim – And to trade Hanley for next to nothing…..
———————————————————————–
The Braves and Phillies need to start looking for a replacement for Jones/Gonzalez and Palanco respectively. Would Florida consider trading him within the division?
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
1:03 pm
Would Johnny Damon be a fit for Braves now that Scott has taken his DH role in Tampa? Kinda on the older side, but could be good clubhouse influence for all the youngsters we have. Just wondering out loud…
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
1:05 pm
JRW-
Hanley reunion with Fredi G ain’t happening under any circumstances short of Fredi’s firing. Shame tho, b/c he has the potential to be a steal with his value pretty low right now.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:05 pm
Top 10 in ground ball rate since start of 2010:
Derek Jeter: 64.2%
Ichiro Suzuki: 58.6%
Elvis Andrus: 58.4%
Juan Pierre: 56.0%
Casey Kotchman: 55.6%
Yunel Escobar: 55.4%
Jason Heyward: 54.6%
Michael Bourn: 54.5%
Denard Span 53.9%
Brett Gardner: 52.8%
That absolutely needs to change if Heyward is going to become a star.
DAP
January 12th, 2012
1:07 pm
lollygagger, damon would fit if he could play CF still. otherwise, not really.
keylargo
January 12th, 2012
1:07 pm
Braves gave up 1/2 year of Texieria and a draft pick in exchange for a full year of Krotchman/Laroche and salary relief.
Not a good trade, but certainly not “worst trade ever.”
I agree that trading Tex was definitely not the worst thing. Another way of looking at the trade is would you be happy with him now at the contract it would have taken to sign him?
2012 $22.5 M – 34 years old
2013 $22.5 M – 35 years old
2014 $22.5 M – 36 years old
2015 $22.5 M – 37 years old
2016 $22.5 M – 38 years old
mpimentel
January 12th, 2012
1:10 pm
damon? don’t we have enougth over the hill (past prime) players…we need good batters better if they are young
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:13 pm
keylargo, Tex turns 32 in 2012.
cosmo
January 12th, 2012
1:15 pm
yep college baseball is almost here – my Gamecocks going for 3rd in a row – we do have our big lefty back Michael Roth …
keylargo
January 12th, 2012
1:16 pm
Sorry Efrim, you’re correct.
keylargo
January 12th, 2012
1:20 pm
I had looked at Tex’s stats the last couple of years which is why I was asking would you like to owe him $112.5 M over the next five years. I wouldn’t take him free right now regardless of what we gave up to get him.
Tex in 2010 and 2011 BA .252/ OBP .353/ SLG .487/ OPS .841
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:21 pm
No problem, key.
Random
January 12th, 2012
1:27 pm
STRETCH (January 12th, 2012 11:45 am): Wasnt it almost the entire team who forgot how to hit?
“It amazes me how laid back they are and how some people are scapegoates after the epic “Tomahawk Choke” last season.
“No matter how you move the chairs around on the Titanic, its STILL a sinking ship!”
So your solution is to wholesal replace :So your solution is to replace “the entire team
Y/A/I.
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
1:34 pm
If Braves are the Titanic, then is Chipper our Leo DiCaprio?
N8
January 12th, 2012
1:35 pm
“They take another college LHP, and I am outta here.” Efrim
Here’s my logic for disagreeing with you (and yeah… I noticed the smiley face, so I realize you wouldn’t really bail out).
Unless Liberty Media sells the team to a private owner/individual who plans on raising payroll significantly, what’s the flippin difference?
In fact, one could argue that taking guys that are closer to being ML ready might be the smarter play due to our lack of funds to be big players in free agency. Not to mention the closer guys are to being ready to be big league players/pitchers, their trade value might be better if we go that route.
I’m not foolish enough to think that Minor or Beachy would bring a bigger return than Teheran, Delgado or Vizcaino. But they MIGHT if a team is looking for a pitcher they can plug in right away.
Since no matter what age a player is when they get to the big leagues, for THIS team as currently constructed, a college pitcher might be the safer play.
Example, everybody is concerned about plugging in the 3 young kids, because they are so young and inexperienced. So why not have guys like Beachy, Minor or even Gilmartin ready to step in and give us good innings from their early to mid 20’s (22-25 years old), until their alleged prime years around the age of 28-30?
If we aren’t going to be able to afford to sign them long term after they hit free agency the first time, why not go with guys that they can fast track?
Just a thought. Clearly guys like Teheran, Delgad and Vizcaino have a higher ceiling than Minor or Beachy or even Gilmartin. But 6 years of service is 6 years of service. With the older more experienced guys (innings wise), we might get more out of them in those 6 years before they bolt for the Yankees.
Like I said. Just an angle, and perhaps one of the driving forces behind the Braves being so prone to take college pitchers in recent years.
mpimentel
January 12th, 2012
1:35 pm
stop talking about the tex trade…we need to live over it once for all…
my predictions for this upcoming season
games avg. hr. rbis. sb 2b 3b
m.braun (over 155) .282 6 40 38 40 7
m.prado (0ver 150) .268 8 47 6 35 2
chipper (< 80) .260 9 38 0 14 0
uggla (over 140) .245 36 92 4 32 1
mccann (< 130) .272 22 76 0 28 0
freeman (over 155) .286 17 70 6 32 2
heyward (<130) .236 14 56 16 28 3
pastorny (<110) .198 0 18 12 12 4
later the pitching staff…
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:37 pm
The Braves released Kemp!?!?
Oh, it was Willie Kempf (RHP)
Ease
January 12th, 2012
1:37 pm
Isn’t Braun suspending for the first 50 games…wait, who?
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:38 pm
If Braves are the Titanic, then is Chipper our Leo DiCaprio?
Are you saying that he’ll “never let go”?
If these are our analogies then Bobby Valentine is our Billy Zane, and Shane Victorino is the iceberg.
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
1:39 pm
Uhhhhhh….Red Sox are meeting with Vicente Padilla. Yikes, if they are that desparate for pitching, then a deal for JJ should be pretty easy to work out, eh? Question is: do they have anything Braves want? Mike Aviles could fill backup INF and OF role, but other than him I’m not sure they have what we need. Do they have any good 3B prospects in the minors that look to be studs? Anyone know?
McFann O O o
January 12th, 2012
1:40 pm
mpimental mccann (< 130) .272 22 76 0 28 0
He’ll be better than that…I’m sure he’ll have more RBI than that, and hopefully more Doubles—and he hasn’t had 0 SBs in a season since 2007, which is the only season in which he’s had 0 SBs…
Triples, well…he likes to surprise us…
mpimentel
January 12th, 2012
1:40 pm
hey it wasn’t suppose o be post like that ….I made it in order of columns
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:41 pm
“They take another college LHP, and I am outta here.” Efrim
If this does happen, I think that it will likely be due to the fact that the Braves honestly think he’s the best player available, instead of simply the best player available for slot. Because due to the new spending caps, every team will essentially have the same amount to spend on the draft, so there is no longer a big advantage to taking a guy based on signability….they should all have a lot more signability now.
N8
January 12th, 2012
1:41 pm
Heyward is a perfect example. Here we are, going into year 3 of his service time.
Whether it’s due to sophomore slump or injuries, he hasn’t had nearly the overall impact hoped. Only 4 more years left. What if he struggles again this year and then pours it on in years 4-6 (his arbitration years)?
We will basically have gotten “half value” out of going with such a young kid. And believe me, despite his struggles, if he turns into what everybody thinks he should, it won’t matter how much he struggled early on, his sarlary will climb out of our range at some point.
With this ownership group and our current budget, I’m not sure this team has the “time” to wait for young players to produce. It might need to be a constant battle of living in the “now”. NOT looking 4-5 years down the road.
It’s also why I think Mac might eventually be traded if Bethancourt even shows a remote sign of being able to replace him before that contract is up.
Hard to say until Chipper and Huddy’s contracts are gone. Especially if Uggla ends up being severly overpayed for his production he’ll provide 2 years down the road.
Unfortunately the kids’ “clocks” have all started, so over the next couple of years we NEED them to be big parts of the team. Can’t let them toil in the minors for too long.
mpimentel
January 12th, 2012
1:42 pm
and sorry is no braun ( i was dreaming) it is bourm
Lollygagger
January 12th, 2012
1:43 pm
RC-
Haha! An iceberg would be one of the nicest thing I’d call Victorino. (This is where McFann’s radar kicks in and she makes an appearance to insult said Phillies’ nuisance.)
raleighbravefan
January 12th, 2012
1:43 pm
mplimentel – Chipper 100, and >120 entirely possible.
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:44 pm
What if he struggles again this year and then pours it on in years 4-6 (his arbitration years)?
Then those arbitration years will be a lot cheaper than they would have been if he hadn’t struggled for 2 of the first 3. And we’ll get a good player at an even bigger discount than the arbitration process usually allows for.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:45 pm
Unless Liberty Media sells the team to a private owner/individual who plans on raising payroll significantly, what’s the flippin difference?
That shouldn’t change their draft strategy. In fact, with the new rules that you’re pretty much not allowed to go above slot, it should aid the Braves in being able to take “the best player available”.
Since no matter what age a player is when they get to the big leagues, for THIS team as currently constructed, a college pitcher might be the safer play.
You win with stars in sports. In something like the draft, go for upside in the early rounds. Sean Gilmartin’s and Mike Minor’s aren’t going to pitch at the front of a big league rotation, and it’s hard to find said pitchers. I like the idea of taking a projectable, prep arm and molding him.
If we aren’t going to be able to afford to sign them long term after they hit free agency the first time, why not go with guys that they can fast track?
That’s going to lead to a lot of mediocre rosters.
mpimentel
January 12th, 2012
1:45 pm
so mcfann did you agree with all my others predictions? except the brian mccann one
Tomahawkin (The Godfather)
January 12th, 2012
1:47 pm
They Just Played The Worst Song on 97.1…”Love Hurts”
That Song Is Gawd Awful Torture!!!
5+ Minutes of Nothing but Whining!
They are on a Roll! They will Prolly play some Billy Joel Next…That Stuff is bad for the ears too…!
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:47 pm
Lollygagger,
Yeah, Victorino is one of those guys that I really want to hate based on his performance against the Braves, but the only thing I have to hate about him is that he’s a good player who happens to be on the other team. I guess its similar to how Mets fans view Chipper.
I still say he looks like a spaceman in his double ear-flapped batting helmet. Can the Phillies not afford to buy him two helmets, or did they spend their helmet money on Ryan Howard’s 5-year, $125 million extension (which starts THIS year btw, hahahahaha)!
ccrider
January 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
Lollygagger, The only problem I see with Damon is his lack of an OF arm anymore. He would seem to fit in a LF platoon with Prado fairly well, (particularly if he gets desparate to continue his pursuit of 3,000 hits and will sign for D.Ross and Hinske money $1.5 .
He still can cover ground enough to play a good LF, his spilts away from Tampa were quite good and he can still steal some bases. Not bad if the price is right.
I would love the Braves to sign or trade for a backup SS(If the reports of Tejada losing weight and getting himself in shape are true and sign Cody Ross, Miquel Tejada and Johnny Damon to go with David Ross and Eric Hinske, THAT would be a nice bench!
McFann O O o
January 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
Lollygagger This is where McFann’s radar kicks in and she makes an appearance to insult said Phillies’ nuisance.
Oh, I won’t personally insult The Reaper…He is one of my least-liked players ever, but I do not hate that imp…
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
What if he struggles again this year and then pours it on in years 4-6 (his arbitration years)?
This is a negative, because…..
We will basically have gotten “half value” out of going with such a young kid.
N8, you have it wrong my friend. You’re on a “Liberty Media sucks” binge right now.
mpimentel
January 12th, 2012
1:48 pm
raleighbravesfan….do you really hope that chipper will play over 100 games?
Patio Daddio
January 12th, 2012
1:50 pm
Coming up on our show today…Rays VP and GM Andrew Friedman on the signing of Luke Scott and Braves new SS Tyler Pastornicky..XM 89 2pm
abwright
January 12th, 2012
1:50 pm
TennesseePaul, January 12th, 2012, 12:04 pm …
“The Mets gave up a half season of a broken down injury plagued out-fielder with bad knees on the wrong side of 30, a DL trip waiting to happen, for … the top pitcher in the Giants farm system.”
Sounds like SF made a worse trade in getting Beltran than Braves made in getting Krotchman for Texiera. Since SF didn’t make the playoffs, sounds like this is the “worst trade ever.”
McFann O O o
January 12th, 2012
1:51 pm
mpimentel—
Well, it does seem like you skimped a bit on everyone’s RBIs except Uggla’s…And Chipper will hit more than 14 doubles…
Pastornicky (SP? don’t think that’s right…) oughta do better, too! Poor guy…
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:51 pm
Taking a polished college lefty with a low upside in the first round is kind of like bunting with a runner on 2nd and you are down 2 in the 9th inning. Yeah you’ve got a better chance of getting the runner in than if you swing away, but 1 run doesn’t do you a whole lot of good in that situation. The first round is your best chance to find an impact player….it’s much easier to find role players in the other 49 rounds.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:51 pm
And as much as I knock the Braves strategy, I do think they would of taken Robert Stephenson if the Reds had not at #27. Pretty sure most here would of done cart wheels had he been selected. I know I would have.
DS1
January 12th, 2012
1:52 pm
Sing us a song, you’re the piano man, sing us a song tonight. Well we’re all in the moody for a melody, and you’ve got us feeling alright.
Efrim
January 12th, 2012
1:52 pm
Well said, RC. Let’s hope they think that way come June.
RC
January 12th, 2012
1:52 pm
N8 and Efrim, see my 1:44 as to way Heyward “pouring it on” during his arb years is not a bad thing at all.
Jimmy
January 12th, 2012
1:54 pm
We were talking yesterday about the NL being forced to use the DH at some point. Got me to thinking.
If we had to field a team this year, with a decent DH, we’d be in deep trouble. Before everyone says “Chipper” is the DH, then who plays third? Prado, then who plays LF? With our current budget constraints, we couldn’t field a very good DH team.
Right now, we are worried about SS and a LF when Prado is at third for Chipper. Imagine trying to find the money to have a decent DH on top of that.
Perhaps that is another reason the Yankees and Red Sox seem to dominate. The spend tons on a 1-9 hitting lineup. A good DH team needs a bigger budget to operate well.
OK, you guys can now tear that theory apart.
abwright
January 12th, 2012
1:55 pm
It would be funny if the Marlins signed Fielder and traded Hanley to the Braves for Jurrjens.
N8
January 12th, 2012
1:56 pm
“N8, you have it wrong my friend. You’re on a “Liberty Media sucks” binge right now.”
I’m not. I’m actually one of the few people on here who doesn’t feel the need to bash Liberty Media. But our payroll is what it is. As long as there is a handful of guys on our roster with higher salaries (like Chipper, Mac, Uggla and Huddy – and Lowe still counts for 10 mill this year), and our budget stays where it’s at? Our payroll is what it is.
It’s not too small to put a winner on the field if the guys do their jobs. Especially the higher salary guys.
Don’t act like I’m so far from the truth. If Heyward erupts over the next 3-4 years, do you really think we’ll be able to keep him, considering all of the other guys that will be due big raises in the meantime, if all goes as planned?
Hell, we can’t even afford to keep GD Michael Born from the way it looks.
Don’t lump me in with the LM haters. I’m not one of them.
Thanks.
DS1
January 12th, 2012
1:56 pm
Johnny Damon is not interested in a part time role. He is chasing 3000 and he is less than 300 hits away. He’s looking for a full time DH role.
raleighbravefan
January 12th, 2012
1:58 pm
vesaversa @12:30 – (did you mean vice versa?) Chipper will make $14M, not $18M…and will be worth it, if he playes as well as last year. If he’s hurt, I believe insurance will pay at least part of his salary.
As far as him, and other “future HAF players” (I assume you meant HOF) stepping down for the benefit of the team…he has a contract. As long as he can fulfill his part of that contract, he has a right to expect the Braves to fulfill their part. HE HAS NO MORAL OBLIGATION TO RETIRE, BECAUSE SOME SHORTSIGHTED FANS FEEL HE IS OVERPAID.
What could we do with his money? What would we do if we had to pay all the young guys what they are really worth, instead of at or near MLB minimum?
N8
January 12th, 2012
2:00 pm
Totally agree with you RC. But you’re missing the point of my arguement/discussion about college players in the draft vs. 17 year old HS players.
What’s the point of being down on college players? Because apparently their ceiling is lower and there is a less chance of them being a guy a team keeps around for 10+ years.
We’re not a team that is likely EVER AGAIN going to have a all-star HOF caliber player under our control for their entire career (with this budget and ownership group), like Chipper.
So what’s the “worry” about a college player vs. a HS player?
From my angle, there is none. Draft guys that can help you win, and help you win quickly as you lose out on your other players that leave via free agency.
That’s my point.
Teheran might eventually be the better pitcher than Mike Minor. Nobody’s denying that.
But Mike Minor might be a guy the Braves keep for the next decade because he’ll be good enough to not get too expensive.
Hard to speculate what Wren and JS are thinking long-term.