New year, same question: Will Braves deal?
Back from a week’s vacation, and obviously didn’t miss a thing regarding Braves personnel moves. Or even rumors of such moves, other than one that linked them to infielder Ryan Theriot, which surprised me and which I still question.
It's 2012, and Martin Prado remains a Brave. It's uncertain if he'll be traded before opening day.
Before we go any further, I’ll note that the unsinkable Seth Smith trade possibility, the rumor that refuses to die, is indeed still alive.
The Braves would still like to get the corner outfielder from Colorado, but the Rockies are going to have to include at least a good center-field prospect (Tim Wheeler is one they like) along with Smith in any package for Martin Prado, and probably at least two or three prospects with Smith in a deal for Jurrjens.
In addition to his .287 average, .347 OBP, 56 extra-base hits and 15 home runs in 2011, another point the Braves like about Smith is that he’s first-time arbitration-eligible and will make below $3 million in 2012 and be under contractual control through 2014.
There’s still at least some Braves interest in outfielder Cody Ross, but the Braves would want the price to keep coming down. I’ve heard he wants something in the neighborhood of the two-year, $10 million deal that David DeJesus got from the Cubs, and Ross is reportedly in negotiations with the Oakland A’s.
Getting back to the seemingly improbable Theriot rumor, I say that because his defensive shortcomings are particularly obvious at shortstop — the position that would be most important for whichever shortstop/untility infielder the Braves acquire between now and Opening Day. (At this point there is a decent chance Atlanta waits to fill the vacancy after seeing who else becomes available in spring training).
The infielder they get would need to serve as backup to rookie Tyler Pastornicky, who turned 22 last month and will, barring unexpected developments, be entrusted with the starting shortstop job for 2012.
The veteran backup would need to be able to fill in if Pastornicky needs a day – or 15 days – off for injury, slump, whatever. The Braves have always placed a premium on defense from the shortstop position. Pastornicky’s defense is OK, solid enough but not spectacular, making defense from his backup all the more valuable, one would think.
I’m going to say the Braves’ interest in Theriot was overstated, based on what I’ve gathered in the past few days. I’ll stop short of saying it was inaccurate, since it’s no fun explaining why a team suddenly makes a move that you (meaning me) had just said or indicated they would not make.
In the instant-response social media-driven rumor mill into which the hot stove league has evolved, circumstances can quickly change for a team, and what once was deemed undesirable can suddenly seem acceptable when options are limited. In other words, you never know.
What you do know, what you can be absolutely sure of, is that while a team’s circumstances can change, woe be the reporter left to explain that to readers, some of whom will screen-shot or otherwise save every word of every sentence in stories or blogs that were written days, weeks or months before a trade or signing that contradicts any assertion made therein.
♣ Sign o’ the Times: The Nationals are reportedly a frontrunner, perhaps the frontrunner, to land free-agent slugger Prince Fielder. If it happens, if Prince comes East, the NL’s toughest division would be even tougher.
These days it seems you turn on the telly and every other story is about the NL East.
(OK, I’ll stop with not-so-subtle Prince musical references many probably aren’t catching anyway.)
If Fielder does end up with the Nationals, the NL East would have five of the 11 NL players who had more than 30 homers in 2011 – Ryan Howard, Fielder, Dan Uggla, Mike Stanton, Michael Morse — including four of the top seven.
Prince Fielder
Fielder’s 38 homers ranked second in the NL, Uggla was fourth with 36, Stanton fifth with 34, and Howard tied for sixth with 33.
The Nationals recently traded for lefty Gio Gonzalez to join a starting rotation that features Stephen Strasburg, and if they got Fielder they would have four of the 31 NL players who hit at least 20 homers in 2011: Fielder, Morse, Danny Espinosa (21) and Jayson Werth (20).
For whatever it’s worth, that would be one more than the Braves (Uggla, McCann 24, Freeman 21).
Not that homers are of utmost importance in the grand scheme, but they’re still kind of fun to talk about on a chilly January day. And that team the Nationals are putting together – it’s an up-and-coming bunch already, folks. But if they add Fielder, look out.
More and more it looks as if both NL wild cards, under the new playoff format that goes in effect during 2012, could come from the NL East. Of course, the Diamondbacks/Giants/Rockies might also have plenty to say about that.
♣ Large Liberty landowner: To repeat something that I noted in the comments section of the last blog, because I think it’s such an unusual coincidence, Liberty Media CEO John Malone became the largest individual U.S. landowner early in 2011, surpassing – wait for it — Ted Turner.
Yes, the CEO of the current corporate owner of the Braves surpassed Turner, the iconoclastic former Braves owner who funded payrolls that annually ranked in the top five of major league baseball and were frequently in the top three, not far behind the Yankees.
Here’s a link to a Forbes Magazine story that details just how much land those guys own.
John Malone (AP photo)
And speaking of Liberty, under terms of its agreement to purchase the Braves in 2007, the corporation was permitted to sell the team only after the expiration of the collective bargaining agreement that was in place at that time. That CBA expired Dec. 11, so now Liberty can sell whenever it pleases.
I’ve heard nothing of any intentions by Liberty to sell anytime soon. Plenty of Braves fans hope that if and when it does happen, the next owner is a local individual who’ll raise the payroll and demonstrate a Ted Turner-like passion to win, preferably while attending games and being visible for all the fans to see.
But let’s face it, what most really want is just for the payroll to be raised. If the team payroll was raised to, say, $110 million, how many in Braves Nation would really care who or what owned the team shy of a communist despot?
As for local ownership, Dodger fans can feel your pain – and then some. After the debacle that’s been the Frank McCourt ownership era at Chavez Ravine, most Dodger fans want a hometown owner to buy their team. Legendary former L.A. Times baseball writer Ross Newhan opined about the Dodgers’ ownership situation and why they should avoid another out-of-towner. Here’s a link.
♣ Chipper’s 3B heir? I’ve been asked several times by fans here and on Twitter about the Braves’ shortstop situation. Specifically, some want to know whether elite defensive SS prospect Andrelton Simmons might displace Pastornicky a year or two from now and let move Pastornicky to move over and replace Chipper Jones when he retires.
My reply usually is along the lines of, these things have a way of working themselves out in time. But another point to consider here is that Pastornicky is a speed guy and pretty good hitter who doesn’t really profile as a third baseman in any way. Doesn’t have 3B-type power.
Joey Terdoslavich does have third-base power, potentially. After hitting .286 with 20 homers and a Carolina League-record 52 doubles in 131 games last season while playing primarily first base for high-Class A Lynchburg, “Terdo” will move to third base this season at Double-A Mississippi and get an invitation to big-league spring training.
If he makes strides as significant in 2012 as he made in 2011, he could be ready in a year or two, maybe sooner than later if there were an injury. Players know they’re only a phone call away from the majors once they get to Double A.
Terdoslavich had 20 homers and a Carolina League-record 52 doubles in 2011.
Terdoslavich hit .321 with 11 extra-base hits (three homers) and a .424 OBP in 22 games in the Arizona Fall League in October-November. When I went out to see him and some other Braves prospects in the AFL, Terdoslavich seemed confident and not surprised by his performance against some of baseball’s top prospects.
But what really impressed me was his response when I asked whether he was as hungry, or even hungrier, to reach the majors now that he was closer than ever before.
“Growing up I always dreamed of playing for the Yankees, because my whole family is from New York,” he said. “That’s why I always try to wear No. 7 everywhere I go. It’s been my dream not only to play for the Yankees, but just to play major league baseball, since I was 8 years old in Little League…
“So now that I’m getting closer, playing minor league baseball and out here in the Fall League — it’s a lot closer than people think when you’re at this level, I mean, you’re only a couple of good seasons away. I’m more excited now than hungry. I’ve always been hungry to make it, and now I’m just getting really excited about it.
“All the work that I’ve put in, with me and my dad, all the stress and the hard work and the sweat, is now starting to show. I’m more excited than anything.”
A lot of players in the AFL had already had their first stints in the major leagues, either as September callups or, in some cases, more extensive experience during the regular season. I asked Terdoslavich if he’d talked to any of those guys out in the AFL, guys who’d had some time in The Show.
“Yeah, a lot of guys say it’s unbelievable,” he said, not even trying to conceal the excitement in his smile and his voice. “They say, ‘You think the big leagues is good, but it’s a lot better than you can only imagine.’ I say I think it’s pretty sweet, and they say, ‘No, when you get there, it’s a lot better than you think — no matter how good you think it is.’”
And just one more thing about Pastornicky: His speed is something the Braves are eager to add to their lineup during this transitional period of sorts, as they move into an era when they plan to have a team that’s different from those of the past decade or more.
“We’ve gotten younger and I think we’re progressively getting a little more athletic and injecting speed, all the things we’d like to do going forward,” general manager Frank Wren said last month. “The talent we have coming up in the system will profile more with the speed component.”
♣ Condolences and prayers: I just want to again express my deepest sympathies and prayers for Braves trainer Jeff Porter, his son David and their extended family after the tragic death of Porter’s wife Kathy in a traffic accident on Saturday. I can’t even begin to think what Jeff, who was driving the SUV that was struck by a George State Patrol cruiser, is going through.
Here’s a link to the guestbook to send condolences: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/atlanta/obituary.aspx?n=kathy-porter&pid=155301764
♣ The Bourn matter: The Braves haven’t begun contract-extension talks with center fielder Michael Bourn, who’s eligible for free agency after the ‘12 season. This is a common sort of timetable for the Braves, who usually wait until after the new year to address extensions, and agent Scott Boras, who usually advises high-profile clients to test free agency unless they’re blown away by an extension offer.
During a conversation I had with Boras after the 2011 season, he said a couple of things that reinforced my belief that it wouldn’t be easy for the Braves to sign his man Bourn long-term.
“On the right surface, Bourn is an extraordinary player,” Boras said. “Domed stadiums have harder surfaces, that really helps. Atlanta has one of the softer surfaces….”
And: “For guys like Michael, the market is better than it ever was. ever was. Guys with speed, Gold Gloves. Teams are looking to manufacture runs with speed, doubles, the things Michael does. And this guy’s the best center fielder in baseball.”
Bourn hit a career-high .294 with a .349 OBP and majors-leading 61 stolen bases (no other player had as many as 50). He’s led the NL in steals each of the past three seasons, and had 22 steals (but only a .321 OBP) in 53 games for the Braves after coming from Houston in a July 31 deadline-day trade.
♣ Let’s close with a tune from the man who made what I considered to be the best album of 2011, Tom Waits’ Bad As Me. This particular cut, “Bottom of the World,” is from his superb three-disc set from a few years back, Orphans: Brawlers, Bawlers and Bastards. You can hear it by clicking here.
“BOTTOM OF THE WORLD” by Tom Waits
My daddy told me, lookin back,
The best friend you’ll have is a railroad track
So when I was 13 said, I’m rollin’ my own
And I’m leavin’ Missouri and I’m never comin’ home
And I’m lost
And I’m lost
I’m lost at the bottom of the world
I’m handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I’m lost at the bottom of the world.
Satchel Puddin’ and Lord God Mose
Sitting by the fire with a busted nose
That fresh egg yeller is too damn rare
But the white part is perfect for slickin’ down your hair
And I’m lost
And I’m lost
I’m lost at the bottom of the world
I’m handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I’m lost at the bottom of the world.
Blackjack Ruby and Nimrod Cain
The moon’s the color of a coffee stain
Jesse Frank and Birdy Joe Hoaks
But who is the king of all these folks?
And I’m lost
And I’m lost
I’m lost at the bottom of the world
I’m handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I’m lost at the bottom of the world.
Well I dined last night with Scarface Ron
On Telapia fish cakes and fried black swan
Razorweed onion and peacock squirrel
And I dreamed all night about a beautiful girl
And I’m lost
And I’m lost
I’m lost at the bottom of the world
I’m handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I’m lost at the bottom of the world.
Well God’s green hair is where I slept last
He balanced a diamond on a blade of grass
Now I woke me up with a cardinal bird
And when I wanna talk
He hangs on every word
And I’m lost
And I’m lost
I’m lost at the bottom of the world
I’m handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I’m lost at the bottom of the world
–by David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog
4,717 comments Add your comment
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
7:07 pm
Enter your comments hereThere once was a man named Bourn
Him leaving has got me torn
Our offense is bad
It makes me sad
This season Ill have to mourn
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
7:08 pm
Damn.
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
7:10 pm
If Bourn caint do any better than a 321 OBP, I don’t even want him back.and if he has any kind of year at all he is gone
hold back the rushing minutes
Make the wind lie still
Don’t let the moonlight shine
Across the lonely hill
Dry up all the raindrops
And hold back the sun
My world has ended
cause Michael Bourn is gone
The Milkman whistles softly
As he comes up to my door
The Mailman brings the letters by
Just like he did before
They seem so busy all day long
As though there’s nothing wrong,
Don’t they know the world has ended
Cause Michael Bourn is Gone
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
7:12 pm
Jumped the gun. Should have said:
There once was a man named Bourn
Him leaving has got me torn
Our offense is bad
It makes me sad
This season Ill have reason to mourn
Its not that great anyway…. I guess I’ll go read the blog.
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
7:14 pm
Thanks for the new blog, DOB (or should I be thanking, al?).
keylargo
January 2nd, 2012
7:18 pm
I think Wren will get us a player before the All Star Break. Ward
Ward – Unfortunately that has been the plan since September of 08.
PD
January 2nd, 2012
7:19 pm
Bourn was average to mediocre in his short time with the Braves. Even at the risk of losing him to the highest bidder when he goes free agent, I hope he has a star season. If he has a star season Boras will have a 85 page book on him asking for him to be the highest paid free agent in 2013. Will the Braves be able to bid? Not a chance and if he has a mediocre season do the Braves want him back?
Bat Masterson
January 2nd, 2012
7:20 pm
Thanks for the new blog, O’Brien, good read.
Bat Masterson
January 2nd, 2012
7:22 pm
Well if Bourn splits we can put the Bourn Supremacy BS to bed, thats a positive.
Bravefaninok
January 2nd, 2012
7:22 pm
Thanks for the new Blog DOB! Hope you had a good vacation(even though you took time out to come on the blog and deal with the unnamed one and answer some questions).
Happy new year
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
7:22 pm
sure, I hope he has a monster season…
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
7:23 pm
DOB
Is it pronounced Terd O’ Slavitch or Ter DOSslavitch?
Bat Masterson
January 2nd, 2012
7:24 pm
No kidding set a bunch of records, help the Braves win a World series, turn down arbitration, and hit the road Jack.
Bat Masterson
January 2nd, 2012
7:25 pm
Ter-DOS
BFChris27
January 2nd, 2012
7:25 pm
Thanks for new blog
BravoMan
January 2nd, 2012
7:30 pm
Let’s make a deal…please…
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
7:30 pm
Thanks for the blog, DOB. I’d be shocked if the Braves inked Bourn to a long term deal before he hit free agency. And once he hits free agency, I’ll be really surprised if he is in a Braves uni in 2013.
David O'Brien
January 2nd, 2012
7:36 pm
DOB
Is it pronounced Terd O’ Slavitch or Ter DOSslavitch?
The latter.
keylargo
January 2nd, 2012
7:37 pm
ter DOS(like M S DOS) la vitch
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
7:39 pm
Cool. Thanks all. I have read it in my head wrong for a while now…
MIBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
7:41 pm
Thanks for the new blog, DOB.
I was very sorry to read about the death of Jeff Porter’s wife (I just saw it earlier). He and his son will be in my prayers.
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
7:42 pm
Jurrjens for Smith and 3 prospects? Sure…….. Arenado, Pomeranz, and Matzek.
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
7:45 pm
(OK, I’ll stop with not-so-subtle Prince musical references many probably aren’t catching anyway.) — DOB
It whoooooshed me, DOB.
BFChris27
January 2nd, 2012
7:47 pm
I’d do Jurrjens/Prado for Smith/Arenado/Pomeranz and Maztek
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
7:48 pm
Either way, thats one pronounced Terd.
Thank you, Ill be here all week!
David O'Brien
January 2nd, 2012
7:51 pm
Was a typo in one of first few graphs about Seth Smith. Should have read Rockies ARE going to have to include at least a prospect, not AREN’T
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
7:56 pm
Wonder if there’s a chance we could get Smith without including Prado or JJ. That I wouldn’t mind.
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
7:56 pm
So, if the Braves trade Prado or Jurrjens for Seth Smith, who makes 2.5 million through arbitration this year and therefore save 2-3 million, what would they then do with the 5-8 million they then have? Most all free agents have signed….
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
7:58 pm
nolie, I’m pretty sure Innocent Bystander was refering to me when he mentioned “ignorant” comment.
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
7:58 pm
DOB
you really think the Braves would have interest in Wilson Betemit. Keeps Prado in LF fulltime, improves the bench. Upgrade over Conrad who is gone already.
Ray
January 2nd, 2012
7:58 pm
DOB,, I saw that and assumed the correction. Thanks for it though. Now the question is do you think the Rocks will pull the trigger. It appears that Wren has stuck to his asking price in talks with the various teams about Prado and JJ.
CB
January 2nd, 2012
7:58 pm
Buy some more land.
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
7:59 pm
DOB-Thanks for the article,and Info on Bourn,and the updates.I hope Wren,can sign Bourn,at least it’s still possible.Just think it’s a bad idea to let Bourn go.It might take the Braves another three years after that to find a lead off hitter again?
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
7:59 pm
In any deal we do with Colorado, I’d want Matzek. He would be more of a lottery ticket throw in, which they may not think he is, so it probably wouldn’t work.
Furman Bitcher
January 2nd, 2012
7:59 pm
Screw Boras
Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ
January 2nd, 2012
8:03 pm
DOB, thanks for the new blog.
Wren may surprise everyone, fairly soon.
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
8:08 pm
Harumph
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
8:08 pm
SIGN FIELDER!!
Steve from OH
January 2nd, 2012
8:09 pm
Efrim, the Rox invested 4MM in Matzek via his signing bonus. He isn’t going anywhere as a lotto ticket, at least not yet.
MitchC
January 2nd, 2012
8:12 pm
Dave, as constructed now.. the Braves are probably going to finish no better than third in the East. The Phillies will be the Phillies, and the Marlins have inproved. Plus, how much hangover will the Braves have.. from blowing a wild card, that really should have been locked up in midsummer. This is an aging team on the decline, and a team full of question marks. JJ is injury prone, Hanson’s health is a question, Lowe is gone, and Hudson.. while he had a good year last year, is getting old. Chipper? We’ll be lucky if he plays 75% of the schedule.
I say, third place, and a win total not exceeding last year’s 89, and probably less. I will be very surprised if this team does better, unless some changes are made before the beginning of the season.
Bravofan
January 2nd, 2012
8:12 pm
Nice bloggage as usual!!
Ryan
January 2nd, 2012
8:12 pm
DOB The Rangers, Angels and now the Nats signing big TV deals is there a way the Braves have a chance when there Tv deals end?
interested bystanderss
January 2nd, 2012
8:14 pm
U are correct. Sir.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
8:15 pm
Buster Olney reporting Braves close to trading for a Poo Hole … Pujols that is!
bobbymahlon
January 2nd, 2012
8:15 pm
Why would we trade an allstar for a platoon player, either JJ or Prado for Smith is a bad deal.
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
8:17 pm
SIGN FIELDER!!
And Freeman?
ccrider
January 2nd, 2012
8:19 pm
A few rambling thoughts: If, Prado is traded and Chipper decides to retire before next season and Terdoslavich isn’t deemed ready: who is going to play 3rd base? The free agent market is devoid of 3rd basemen that is equal to a even 40 year Chipper Jones with 38 years old Scott Rolen being the only average quality that is a true free agent(others have a team option(Wright, Inge, Polanco, Mark Reynolds).
Will the Braves regret trading Prado? Will they have to trade high pitching prospect to fill the void?
Has anyone noticed that the outfield free agents next year are very thin.
There is Hamilton, but we need a RHed bat and he will be very expensive if he stays healthy(a BIG IF). If Bourn leaves, you have a 35 year old Maron Byrd(a definite dropoff), Injury prone Victorino( If the Phillies don’t resign him) and BJ Upton( a dropoff from Bourn).
The Leftfield options might be better with Andre Either and Nick Swisher(If they make to free agency, Yankees and Dodgers usually find the money to keep good players)
The Braves have hopefully these positions filled for next year. Catcher(McCann), 1st (Freeman), 2nd(Uggla), SS (Pastornicky or Simmons) and RF (Heyward).
Will they have enough money to fill 3B, LF and CF with quality players and not have to lay bare the farm system?
Prado could fill either 3B or LF fairly cheaply, should we trade him ?
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
8:24 pm
If you just type in “Terd” to Baseball Reference’s search box, it goes right to Joey’s stats page
Fairbrave
January 2nd, 2012
8:32 pm
I would like to see us trade JJ and Minor for Adam Jones and then sign a backup SS.
I don’t exspect Minor to win more than 10 games and we have Medlen that can do that.
Glass Half Broken
January 2nd, 2012
8:39 pm
It is not a kill the messenger mode that I am in. DOB has absolutely nothing to do with what the Braves management chooses to do or NOT to do.
I find it particularly frustrating to read about trying to aquire Theriot and Seth Smith. And there is also a guy who hasn’t even had a big league start perhaps moving over to third from SS after Chipper retires while another prospect that may not even be a Mendoza line hitter once he reaches the bigs, takes the SS position. While the CEO of Liberty, who only knows the Braves as an asset on the balance sheet, is busy becoming the largest land baron in the USA.
The name should be changed to the Atlanta “IF’’s”
IF …. about 25 things happen to create the perfect storm, the Braves may actually contend for a playoff berth. IF NOT….. it’s gonna be really ugly.
IF Chipper can play 145 HEALTHY games, along with Mac playing 145 healthy, NOT GASSED games and IF Heyward can figure out how to hit to his potential and get healthy and IF Prado or someone can produce in LF and IF Hanson can turn that dart throwing motion into something that isn’t going to make his shoulder fly off and IF Fredi can figure out how to manage the big 3 without each of them having to throw 75-80 innings and IF…….. just what I said……. lots of IF’s have to come together in a positive way for the Braves to be a factor. IF any of those things go South, gonna be the Braves in mid pack in the NL East.
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
8:43 pm
poor baby…….
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
8:43 pm
The name should be changed to the Atlanta “IF’’s”
Yeah, but what would their mascot be?
Anyway…for one thing, the offseason isn’t over yet. And another, our current roster is pretty much the same as last year’s except minus McLouth, Schafer, Gonzalez, Lowe, and Proctor. And last year’s team – collapse included – won 89 games. I don’t think the sky is falling just yet.
Blog Monitor
January 2nd, 2012
8:43 pm
Great Rose bowl…
Ducks fly…
Elmer Gantry
January 2nd, 2012
8:47 pm
We will get to see what it is like to be a Pirates fan before too long. They never make any real moves either.
Ray
January 2nd, 2012
8:50 pm
@Elmer, The pirates not until this past couple of years, they have not known how to develop any prospects. They have not done a good job drafting. And they don’t have the players the Braves have had for the last 20 yrs.
Mitchie-sand
January 2nd, 2012
8:55 pm
The name should be changed to the Atlanta “IF’’s”
Yeah, but what would their mascot be?
A hippogriff!!! Duh.
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm
Atlanta IFS
IF…..
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ‘em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
‘ Or walk with Kings – nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And – which is more – you’ll be a Man, my son!
P'cola Brave
January 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm
The Smith thing really has me scratching my head. He hits RHP well which is nice but not exactly our problem. Has some pop but has historically struggled away from Coors until 2011. He obviously has to platoon w/ somebody and I guess right now that would be Diaz. Diaz hit for a good average against LHP but his power was non existent last year. I think he only had 8 XBH all season. Acquiring Smith still requires us to add other pieces, like someone not only capable of playing SS but 3B.
Bat Masterson
January 2nd, 2012
8:58 pm
I would like to see us trade JJ and Minor for Adam Jones and then sign a backup SS. _ Fairbrave
Yes, well, you’re not going to see that………………. with good reason…….. it would be dumb of the Braves, really dumb
PD
January 2nd, 2012
8:59 pm
Every team is called the Ifs every season
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
9:00 pm
We’ve got a talented young nucleus of Freeman, Heyward, Prado, McCann, Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Kimbrel, and Venters who should be around for awhile. Let’s act a little more logical before we start comparing ourselves to the Pirates.
They have McCutchen.
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
9:02 pm
The name should be changed to the Atlanta “IF’’s”
Yeah, but what would their mascot be?
The only thing I could come up with is, T-Hawkin, dancing on the dugout in a big, question-mark costume.
David O'Brien
January 2nd, 2012
9:03 pm
I find it particularly frustrating to read about trying to aquire Theriot and Seth Smith. And there is also a guy who hasn’t even had a big league start perhaps moving over to third from SS after Chipper retires while another prospect that may not even be a Mendoza line hitter once he reaches the bigs, takes the SS position. — Glass Half Broken
More like Glass nine-10ths broken, my friend.
1. Braves aren’t trying to acquire Theriot, which is what I tried to make clear in so many words — just a rumor started elsewhere, and people I talked to said it was inaccurate.
2. No one in Braves organization has mentioned a word about even the possibility of Pastornicky moving to 3B. No one. Only fans have asked me that, as I said in explaining why it doesn’t make sense.
3. No one in Braves organization has said that Simmons will displace Pastornicky. If he keeps developing, it’s a reasonable assumption we all can make that it would happen. But that’s all it is. Braves haven’t said that’s what is going to happen.
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm
Ha! I actually thought I’d be the only one replying to jeffrey.
Bat Masterson
January 2nd, 2012
9:04 pm
They have McCutchen.
And Charlie Morton, don’t for get about him
Brave New World
January 2nd, 2012
9:05 pm
What about Renteria as a back up shortstop?
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
9:07 pm
Ha! I actually thought I’d be the only one replying to jeffrey.
Well thanks, Tom. I was about to compliment your funny Tomahawkin line, then you say “I’ll bet no one’s gonna reply to that big ol’ dork!”
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
9:08 pm
And McLouth
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
9:09 pm
Wow, the Pirates have 6 Mc’s on their team. I’ll bet that place is jaunty during St. Patty’s Day.
Ray
January 2nd, 2012
9:09 pm
jeffrey,, thank you,, well said
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
9:10 pm
“I want, I want … I need, I neeeeed”
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
9:11 pm
I can’t believe you read between my lines so accurately, jeffrey. You must have espn.
Poor DOB. He gets grief for not writing a blog. Then, he gets grief when he does.
Have you ever thought about running for office, David?
Mr. Baseball
January 2nd, 2012
9:11 pm
When Prince Fielder signs with the Nationals this week, the Braves will be fighting with the Mets for last place in the NL East !
cornjolio
January 2nd, 2012
9:12 pm
TERD = Braves’ 2012 season
Sopheee
January 2nd, 2012
9:13 pm
Thanks as always, DOB.
Keep Marteeeeeeeen.
keylargo
January 2nd, 2012
9:17 pm
The name should be changed to the Atlanta “IF’’s”
Yeah, but what would their mascot be?
A confused tranny.
Moe Berg
January 2nd, 2012
9:19 pm
Soph–I met a cute South Asian infant with huge jowls that kept staring at me with huge eyes in the elevator the other day. Her name is also Sophia–thought of you. (Not to imply that you have big jowls, since I actually have no idea what you look like.)
jeffrey d
January 2nd, 2012
9:20 pm
What’s an infant doing riding the elevator? How did she even reach the buttons??
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
9:20 pm
Guess the Braves have only been interested in Seth Smith…Seems like there are solid guys in free agency that would come on 1 year deal for pretty cheap.
Felix
January 2nd, 2012
9:21 pm
Don’t want to see Princess with the Nats and/or in the NL East. He is a prima donna who thinks no pitcher should ever throw inside to him. I hated it when we would play the Brewers because I knew I’d have to watch his antics at the plate. I sure don’t want him in the NL East where I will have to watch his act even more. If the Nats do land him, the Braves will slip even further back in the division.
Moe Berg
January 2nd, 2012
9:22 pm
jeffrey d–There was an elevator operator and the little Sophia had her floor number pinned to her onesie. Alas, she was not very good at exiting the elevator and ended up passing floor twelve quite a number of times.
ISH
January 2nd, 2012
9:23 pm
Bourne will be traded before the deadline.. No sense in letting him go without getting something in return.
Big Al
January 2nd, 2012
9:23 pm
DOB,
Any chance that Freeman could be moved to LF to make room for Mauro Gomez at 1B?
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
9:24 pm
Steve from Ohio, you could be right about Matzek, but sometimes prospects are traded who were given a large signing bonus.
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
9:26 pm
ISH
We use him to win with.
Sopheee
January 2nd, 2012
9:28 pm
Ha, Moe. Sophia’s been a top baby name for a few years now. I remember being in elementary school and people either not knowing what to make of my name or asking me if I was named after Sophia Loren.
By the way, I read about your wife’s green card dilemma thanks to Mr. Thief. Any luck in getting it back or obtaining a new one?
Frank Wren
January 2nd, 2012
9:29 pm
Don’t worry Braves fans, you should feel confident that I, Frank Wren, am on top of everything.
It is beddy time now. I always have animal crackers with my milk before nappy.
……….now where are my bugs bunny pajamas?
The Dude
January 2nd, 2012
9:31 pm
Looks to me that the Braves are looking to phone in 2012 and reload for 2013. The young pitchers..Tehran, Delgado, Vizciano should be ready to take the reins by then.
DOB, with the exception of Uggla and McCann…what big contracts will still be on the books in 2013?
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
9:31 pm
Hello everyone! Anyone watching the Fiesta Bowl. Interesting game. People seem to over look the Braves young starting pitching,and bull-pen. Wren got us Robert Fish,and Jason Rice.I have reason to believe the Braves can compete,and go for with pitching.
Moe Berg
January 2nd, 2012
9:32 pm
Soph–Yep. Names go in cycles. I have a nephew that is three. When my sister was pregnant with him, my then two year-old niece (his older sister) declared that she wanted to call him Sofa. My sister asked if she meant Sophia. My niece looked at her mother as if she were a complete dolt. Of course, not. If I meant, Sophia, I would say Sophia. I like Sofas, so I want to call the baby Sofa. While that is not my nephew’s name, it is what I still call him.
No luck yet, immigration offices have not yet opened up after the holiday weekend. The one in Delhi should be opening up in about an hour, so hopefully, she will reach someone there.
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
9:33 pm
Are pitching is deep ,and young,and excited to see how it progresses.
ISH
January 2nd, 2012
9:33 pm
If we’re not in the hunt by the break.. then we trade him. I’m not optimistic about our chances in ‘12 but I’ve been wrong before.
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
9:34 pm
Well just thought I would mentioned our pitching. Good pitching beats good hitting. Isn’t that the old saying?
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
9:36 pm
Wren never had plans on bringing in any new players.
ISH
January 2nd, 2012
9:38 pm
I like our young rotation but I’m not convinced that there’s a true ace among them.. time will tell.
Braves Notes: Ross, Theriot, Pastornicky, Bourn- Hooyt!
January 2nd, 2012
9:41 pm
[...] but they could still use shortstop depth and may bolster their outfield before Opening Day. David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has the latest rumors on the [...]
Braves Rumors: Seth Smith, Cody Ross Interest, Michael Bourn Extension Talks- Hooyt!
January 2nd, 2012
9:42 pm
[...] Braves still looking for possible deals as new year begins | Atlanta Braves“The Braves haven’t signed a free agent or made a significant trade acquisition since the 2011 season ended. But they’re still looking to do so.” [...]
Moe Berg
January 2nd, 2012
9:43 pm
I like our young rotation but I’m not convinced that there’s a true ace among them.. time will tell.
The Braves’ big three in the 90’s did not look like aces in their first season or two. Maddux took until his third season to have an ERA under 5.00. Glavine’s first two seasons produced ERAs of 5.54 and 4.56. Smoltz first season produce a W-L record of 2-7 and an ERA of 5.48.
I am not saying that these young players will turn out as aces. I am just pointing out that the first impressions do not necessarily dictate the career trajectory.
Steve from OH
January 2nd, 2012
9:45 pm
Steve from Ohio, you could be right about Matzek, but sometimes prospects are traded who were given a large signing bonus.
Oh sure, without a doubt. I’m just saying that the Rox aren’t likely to view a minor-leaguer like Matzek as throw-in bait just yet.
ISH
January 2nd, 2012
9:46 pm
thus.. “time will tell”.
abwright
January 2nd, 2012
9:47 pm
I wouldn’t say Wren had no intentions of bringing in new players. The right deal hasn’t presented itself. I’m a little disturbed at going with Pastornicky to start the season, but I have no real idea where the guy is in his development.
There are still quite a few guys out there on the FA market. I wouldn’t sign anyone if waiting could bring the price down more.
Once Princess signs, the big impact guys will be settled. Other than Beltran, there wasn’t really anyone who would have fit the Braves needs on a contract that would make sense for the Braves (i.e. 2 year deals for over-the-hill SS would not fit the Braves needs at all).
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
9:47 pm
That’s fair, Steve.
P'cola Brave
January 2nd, 2012
9:47 pm
I’m not sure that all the latin trio become starters. I think Teheran is a front line guy and Delgado is a three or four guy. I think Viz pans out more as a reliever in a set up role or closer. The biggest question going forward will be what to make of Beachy, Minor and Hanson. If Hanson can’t stay healthy it will be interesting to see what type of future he will have in ATL.
Sopheee
January 2nd, 2012
9:50 pm
How funny, Moe. Had a few classmates hurl the name Sofa at me too.
Best of luck to your wife, hopefully she doesn’t have too much trouble with the process. What a headache.
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
9:51 pm
Moe Berg
While your wife is waiting for her new green card, tell her not to sample any home made hooch.
Did you read about that disaster?
ISH
January 2nd, 2012
9:54 pm
Minor would be great if he could use Glavine’s strike zone.. Outside of that I don’t see him making an impact. Hanson’s delivery is gonna end his career early.
Efrim
January 2nd, 2012
9:54 pm
I’m not sure that all the latin trio become starters. I think Teheran is a front line guy and Delgado is a three or four guy. I think Viz pans out more as a reliever in a set up role or closer.
I sure hope all three become starters. Vizcaino in the pen for 2012 and perhaps even 2013, but I hope the rotation is in his future. 200 innings are so much better than 60 innings…..even if they are high leverage innings.
And let’s all hope Hanson is healthy. Really hurts our long term outlook, imo.
Sopheee
January 2nd, 2012
9:58 pm
Yay, Hawks!
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:02 pm
DOB i love how these random people that visit the blog possess no reading comprehension…the rest of us very much appreciate all that you do…i would never, and never have reply to this blog while on vacation…the rest of the unwashed masses be damned….a great big thank you to you
Fairbrave
January 2nd, 2012
10:03 pm
Looks like Orioles are signing Coco Crisp to free up Adam Jones to be moved, according to Jon Heyman maybe the Braves.
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
10:14 pm
I’d rather sign Crisp myself than to give up what the Os want for Jones
SB75
January 2nd, 2012
10:16 pm
DDOB…..
Any chance the Braves would be interested in a package form the Jays of Eric Thames and Anthony Gose for JJ. If so, do you think it’s possible?
TeenagedBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
10:16 pm
I agree with Nolie, unless all that it takes to get Jones is Jurrjens or Prado, with them giving us Jones and a prospect.
wakeup
January 2nd, 2012
10:17 pm
sheesh…here we are in the basement with the mets…make a freakin move1
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:18 pm
nolie….i dont believe i have ever disagreed with your baseball acumen….but i still say Bridges was better than the Duke in True Grit……………….btw i may be drunk
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
10:18 pm
last place is good for your character
that which doesn’t kill you makes you stronger…..
BosnianBaller
January 2nd, 2012
10:18 pm
DOB
If the Braves fail to make the playoffs will Wren and Gonzalez be fired after the season? I think Fredi would go and Wren would get at least 1 more year.
BIOMASS
January 2nd, 2012
10:19 pm
I’m waiting for another blockbuster Jack Wilson deal! Wow, the Braves are exciting….
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:20 pm
No to giving up JJ or Teen for Jones, Smith, or (insert whatever freakin name here) No No No
It makes absolutely no sense…….none
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 2nd, 2012
10:21 pm
“We’ve gotten younger and I think we’re progressively getting a little more athletic and injecting speed, all the things we’d like to do going forward,” general manager Frank Wren said last month. “The talent we have coming up in the system will profile more with the speed component.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Great, fantastic, awesome. But I have just one question…..
Where is this organization’s commitment to playing top notch defense, because Uggla for all his gaudy numbers, hard work and consummate professionalism doesn’t cut it at 2B. Coupled with the loss of Gonzo at SS who was arguably the teams best defender, which leaves our up the middle defense full of holes. Adversely affecting our young starting pitching staff, their pitch counts and once again overworking the bullpen. So why should this fan give a damn in 2012 because I can’t take the Braves seriously at all competitively.
P'cola Brave
January 2nd, 2012
10:22 pm
The Orioles don’t seem like the obvious fit as they already have a fine young center fielder in Adam Jones. But they could move Jones to left field and form an outfield with three players capable ot playing center. The Braves have been asking about Jones’ availability, but the asking price has been understandably high. Baltimore wouldn’t do it straight-up for young righthander Jair Jurrjens.
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
10:22 pm
I luv both actors Salt so I won’t argue too much. I liked the first movie better though
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
10:23 pm
If the Braves fail to make the playoffs will Wren and Gonzalez be fired after the season?
pretty unlikely for Fredi, NWIH for Wren
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
10:24 pm
Found out the Braves invited Adam Russell from Tampa Rays as a non roster invitee.He has control problems with walks.Not as bad as Proctor,but not as good as Linebrink. It will aslo bring depth to the farm system in Gwinett.
nolie
January 2nd, 2012
10:25 pm
Jones is one of the more overrated players in baseball. he can stay in Baltimore AFAIC
David O'Brien
January 2nd, 2012
10:26 pm
Oklahoma State QB Brandon Weeden is 2 months older than Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rogers. No, seriously.
Weeden turned 28 in October. Rogers turned 28 in December.
ugafan13
January 2nd, 2012
10:29 pm
Well on the bright side no Lowe, McCloth or Kawakami. We are better for that. And while we are at it let’s remember last year that the media and fans all but crowned the Phils World Champs! 162 games is a long season with many twists and turns…our fate is being determined before the 1st pitch. We need to remember the Cards season last year and where they ended up in spite of being written off!
Bill
January 2nd, 2012
10:29 pm
DOB hope you had a great week off.. Jeff Porter’s wife getting killed and his son and girl friend hurt really upset me. My Prayers are for Jeff’s family and son’s GF. Thanks for new post..Go Braves!
McFann O O o
January 2nd, 2012
10:29 pm
Thanks for the link to the Guest Book, DOB!
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:32 pm
nolie…..Bridges could never do Big Jake….hell no one else could…or Rooster Cogburn and the Lady…or The Shootist
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
10:32 pm
nolie-Agree with Adam Jones. At least Smith has a higher OPS.At first thought it was good,but not at the cost of players.
P'cola Brave
January 2nd, 2012
10:33 pm
Adam Jones may be overrated but hell every team does that with their own players. Just like we overvalue JJ and Prado.
Jayson Werth
January 2nd, 2012
10:33 pm
Jayson Werth is not 20…he is 32
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:35 pm
Mr. Porter….breaks my heart…Im so sorry Ive never met you, but I’ve seen you so often I feel you are a part of my family…I have been praying hard for you since yesterday morning
Ward
January 2nd, 2012
10:36 pm
Well guy’s it’s been cool,and try to word things better in my post. It’s been good talking tonight. Sure been an iteresting Off season. Peace………Talk tomrrow.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:37 pm
Mcfann….good to see you
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
10:41 pm
Adam Jones overrated? Sorry, but I hardly hear of the guy. You did a lot when that Bedard to M’s trade was going down, but I hadn’t heard of him much at all since. Except until this offseason of course.
cabravesfan
January 2nd, 2012
10:42 pm
Tom-
You still around? Hi
TennesseePaul
January 2nd, 2012
10:42 pm
Thanks for the work DOB. Happy New Year.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 2nd, 2012
10:42 pm
See ya Ward … in about 5 minutes.
P Rose
January 2nd, 2012
10:45 pm
Playing half of his games at thin-aired Coors Field, Seth Smith hit for a .287 average, .347 OBP, 56 extra-base hits and 15 home runs? He’s unlikely to match those numbers playing half of his games at pitcher-friendly Turner Field.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:46 pm
Winter has finally reached its spiney hand down to the coast…..28 in the morning…God bless you people that have to live in it
p.s. it’ll be 70 by the weekend
cabravesfan
January 2nd, 2012
10:48 pm
Salt life-
been in the 80s here the last few days, 81 tomorrow, low for the week is 72…
McFann O O o
January 2nd, 2012
10:48 pm
Hi, Salt Life! Good to see you, too! Any new birds lately?
cabravesfan
January 2nd, 2012
10:49 pm
I should say the low daytime temps. Low for the night is 45…
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:50 pm
cab………….(sticking my tongue out at you)
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:54 pm
Mac…………no new ones…I have a Great Horned Owl and a young Hawk (of which type I cannot discern yet) hanging around…..today I had like 20 sparrows at my bird feeder…gotta figure out how to upload my iphone pictures to the laptop…..
Johnny Damon
January 2nd, 2012
10:55 pm
I still don’t have a team and yet have better stats than Seth Smith in my down years.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:57 pm
Hey Johnny, lets talk. Sincerely Frank Wren
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
10:59 pm
cab…..know you have Nola….had Pitt mix wander up to the house at T giving…he is a cool doggie….sweet beyond explanation…named Dutch…after my favorite pres
McFann O O o
January 2nd, 2012
11:00 pm
Salt Life—
A Great Horned Owl!! How exciting!! I LOVE owls! We used to hear a Barred Owl quite often, but the last few years it’s been pretty rare. We heard a couple of them hooting back-and-forth to each other a couple months ago—that was really cool! They make some of the craziest sounds, but don’t sound quite as frightening as the Barn Owl (which we’ve only heard recordings of). Great Horned Owls make that classic owl sound, though—the very deeps hoots—I love that…
We saw a Cooper’s Hawk today! We’ve also seen the huge Red-Tailed Hawk a few times the last few months. They’re so amazing…
gotta figure out how to upload my iphone pictures to the laptop…..
That’d be fun! I always enjoy bird photos!
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:01 pm
I’m in lurking mode, cabravesfan. (means I’m working & goofing off)
Hi!
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:04 pm
It hurts me so much that I have to don warm clothes for the next few days….but now i will retire and curl up next to the person I love most in the whole world (btw..she feels the same about me)
at least she says she does
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
11:04 pm
IMO if we fail to make the playoffs this season Wren or Fredi has to go. Just unacceptable.
tiger297
January 2nd, 2012
11:06 pm
its cold where I am…
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:09 pm
IMO if we fail to make the playoffs this season Wren or Fredi has to go. Just unacceptable.
Fredi talking to Wren on the phone, today: if we don’t make the playoffs this season, we’ll have to get a new fan base.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:09 pm
Mac…..im not making new years resolutions….but im making changes at the new year…i will learn how to get photobucket up and running in the next couple weeks…and all the world will see …including Tom..
Owls are the coolest..I’m glad you had/have a Barred Owl. Their call is the coolest of all IMO
cabravesfan
January 2nd, 2012
11:14 pm
Salt life-
No need to stick your tongue out- not your fault you don’t life in paradise
Not to be picky, but it’s Nala and Pitt pups are super sweet! I assume you kept the pup that came to you? They do make GREAT pets if you treat them right
Good for you!
McFann O O o
January 2nd, 2012
11:16 pm
Salt Life—
I can’t wait to see them! Have I ever showed you my day-by-day photos of a Carolina Wren Nest we had back in 2005? My pride and joy…
Last Wren Nest we’ve had in our yard that I’ve been able to access… 
JennyGirl and Boogity were very special Wrennies…
Unfortunately, I’ve never been able to get a photo of our Owl—Brother saw it once, and I missed a BMac Grand Slam (the second of his career) to try to see it also, but all I saw was a wing…
John
January 2nd, 2012
11:16 pm
Good stuff DOB. Happy New Year
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:17 pm
Tom – you do realize that if we don’t make the playoffs this year it will be the first time any MLB team has failed to reach the playoffs in consecutive years…
theted
January 2nd, 2012
11:18 pm
DOB
Any update on the Braves’ new unis? They’ll be unveiled this month, correct? I’m curious to see if it going to be a new uniform plus new hats and pants.
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
11:21 pm
Just my opinion. When we make zero additions cause we like our roster and believe last year was a fluke. You better come threw.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:21 pm
cab……I couldnt pay the taxes it would cost me to live in (your) paradise…Eleven and a half months of the year, I love my paradise
Mac…I saw the video you posted of JennyGirl….you feeding the Wrennies out of your hand….so coll!!!!
McFann O O o
January 2nd, 2012
11:24 pm
Salt Life—
Thanks!
That was actually Beggar Ben the Wren—another super special Wrennie…
I’m hoping I cann train the pair we have now, but they don’t seen too int’rested…
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:26 pm
VJ and Tom……you do realize the Braves are the only team to make the palyoffs 14 years in a row and never win anything….including a Yogi Berra Award, Steve Carlton Award, or a Golden Globe?
The Insider
January 2nd, 2012
11:27 pm
Braves are in serious talks with the O’s for Adam Jones. Got info from very reliable source. Things are about to get juicy.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:29 pm
cab….Dutch rules this house…it used to belong to my wife…now it belongs to Dutch..I never had any illusion that I was in charge (smiley face here)
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
11:30 pm
here we go again with all the bogus rumors. The O’s want to much for Jones, not gonna happen.
McFann O O o
January 2nd, 2012
11:31 pm
Oh well, that’s it for me tonight! Wanted to not stay up so late during the off-season as part of the New Year gig, but have so far blown it every night!…
Night, all!
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:32 pm
Salt life
I’ve often wondered what cabravesfan loves more; California, USC, 49ers, Nala, Braves, the Blog, VJ, or wine.
I’m thinking, Nala, is number one. After that, it’s anybody’s guess.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:32 pm
Night Mac….does me good to chat with you
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:32 pm
I just find it humorous when people start crying before the cows have even been milked…
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:33 pm
Good night, young lady.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:33 pm
Tom….I would guess VJ number 2(?)…then wine…absolutely wine!!
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:35 pm
I try to avoid palyoffs – people draw inappropriate conclusions…
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:35 pm
Tom….Im a little short on history…you and VJ and cab have been face to face, correct?
braveshoo
January 2nd, 2012
11:36 pm
I think the Braves are better off keeping Prado and JJ based on the potential trades I’ve seen. Sometimes you just have to improve from within and give young players time to develop. Prado is an average LF, but he is an allstar utility player in my opinion.Yes, he will cost maybe 5m next year, but you would probably have to replace him with 2 players that would cost just as much, if you can get them. I think JJ is the best piece to trade because of the good young pitching we have ready, but I worry about injuries affecting Hudson, Hanson, JJ, Medlin, and some of our bullpen. You can never have enough pitching, so I would hold onto JJ too, at least until ST, if not longer to see how Hudson and Hanson are physically.
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:36 pm
No way – USC #2…
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:38 pm
Tom’s slowness to make a trip to California left me the opening through which I quickly leapt…
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:38 pm
Salt life
In picture, only (at least where I’m concerned). I believe VJ & cab may have been face-to-face on an occasion or two.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:41 pm
Tom…your wit never ceases to amaze and amuse (at least a simple mind like mine)…VJ took the same oath as I….to stamp out ignorance and stupidity wherever it may raise its’ ugly head
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:44 pm
When are you two going to start stamping on this blog, Salt life?
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
11:47 pm
I take my comment is ignorant and stupid? We as fans expect this to be a playoff team period. Its not ok to fall short again. Specially after how confident Wren is being with the same exact roster.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:47 pm
Sorry Tom…that would be akin to the 300…
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:49 pm
VaBraves…..was not directed at you…sorry for the confusion
Couch Tater
January 2nd, 2012
11:50 pm
“My German was better than my Russian, and Putin spoke German well from his KGB days,” Bordley said. “I never dreamed during my playing days that one day I’d be speaking to the Russian president in German.”
In case you missed it, cool article from Dave Sheinin of The Washington Post…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlbs-new-security-chief-understands-danger–and-baseball/2011/12/21/gIQAHQgnHP_story.html
Ode to Ryan Theriot | World Series Dreaming
January 2nd, 2012
11:51 pm
[...] remembered that he was smart. So scratch that idea. Who else? Well, for some reason the Braves were mentioned as a possible suitor, but as stated in the article, they’d be better served with a good defensive shortstop. [...]
Tom O'Hawke
January 2nd, 2012
11:52 pm
I hear you, Salt life.
VaBravesFan, I’m sure he wasn’t talking about you. Haven’t you ever read some of the ridiculous posts that are on here? They are, usually, by a new moniker – which means it’s probably the same idiot using different names.
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:53 pm
The only time I would ever say negative on this blog would be to dentz….yes ignorant and stupid..cosign or whatever I have to do on that….oh, and Don, and Robert, and Mitchell, and Mixxo, and……oh crap I give up……..I have tried but I have failed
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:53 pm
I take my comment is ignorant and stupid? We as fans expect this to be a playoff team period. Its not ok to fall short again. Specially after how confident Wren is being with the same exact roster.
I did not call you either – I am just saying you are moaning and groaning about things which are nine months away – and saying “it’s not okay” indicates that you do not understand how so many teams have not come close to experiencing the excellence we have for so many years. Demanding someone be fired for an undetermined fate nine months from now is the sort of thing that I find highly … interresting…
VaBravesFan
January 2nd, 2012
11:55 pm
oh ok sorry, thought it was about my comment about Wren or Fredi should be gone if we miss the playoffs again. Which some would disagree with.
SeATLite
January 2nd, 2012
11:57 pm
The city knows when a rocket ship explodes, and everybody still wants to fly.
Some say a man ain’t happy truly, until a man truly dies.
Oh, why? Oh, why?
Siiiiiiiiiign…
Of the Times.
Hey, DOB, do you think there’s any possibility the Braves give up on the idea of finding a veteran backup SS and just let Simmons back up Pastornicky? If the point is just to have great defense waiting on the bench anyway, based on what you’ve been saying it sounds like Andrelton has that in spades. (I’m guessing the answer is no, but I figured I might as well ask.)
Salt life
January 2nd, 2012
11:58 pm
Couch…..funny story…..I was a small town deputy sherrif that can speak Spanish…I pulled over a speeding vehicle driven by a German that spoke Italian, who had a passenger that was Italian and spoke Spanish…..we had a fun time talking to each other that day…
p.s. I did not write him a speeding ticket
Venice Jim
January 2nd, 2012
11:59 pm
thought it was about my comment about Wren or Fredi should be gone if we miss the playoffs again. Which some would disagree with.
Like ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:00 am
SeATLite
A backing up role, would hinder Simmons’ progress, don’t you think?
TNScott
January 3rd, 2012
12:01 am
DOB- Do Breeden’s teammates call him Gramps?
Tom(Independent)
January 3rd, 2012
12:01 am
Go get free-agent, Jeff Keppinger, can play SS, 2nd or 3rd. Lifetime .285 hitter, hardly ever strikes out. Probably cost about 3-4 million, good choice in my opinion. Former Parkview HS and UGA star, will help fan-base also.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:05 am
Jim
I’m not demanding anything, just think it makes sense for those 2 to be on the hot seat if we fail to make it to the playoffs again. Wren hasnt made 1 significant addition to the ballclub and believes last season was a fluke, so Fredi has a roster capable of making the playoffs. I’m not moaning just saying what I think if we dont make it.
SeATLite
January 3rd, 2012
12:05 am
Tom, I do, yes. It’s not the move I would make, but while I was reading the blog it occurred to me as a not utterly ludicrous possibility. Although it most likely is just that.
Probably just my brain getting itchy from all this sitting around waiting for something to happen.
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
12:10 am
I believe September was a total fluke, so I guess I should be fired…
Sorry, I just get so frustrated by the constant negativity from people because we haven’t made a move just for the sake of making a move that at times I have to be anti-negative…
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
12:10 am
I don’t think just because the Braves miss the playoffs that Wren and/or Fredi should be gone. I think it all depends on the season. Take the September collapse out and most would consider an 89 win season a really good year. And lets not act like they aren’t adding to it just because they don’t want to. It takes two to make a trade and the FA class left a whole lot to be desired.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:12 am
SeATLite
I suppose if Wren had no choice, he could do that. But we have plenty of time before the season starts, and I think Wren is a very good GM, so he’ll come up with a better option than that (I hope).
By the way, as long as there’s another, “Tom”, on here, you better address me as, “your almighty greatness”.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:13 am
Or… just Tom O
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
12:14 am
What a horrendous kick…
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
12:15 am
ccrider, the answer is no, we shouldn’t trade prado. And we should at least try to extend Bourne.
Free agent market for outfielders is not thin next year. But, if we have to buy two players, that could be a problem.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:15 am
Adam Jones may be overrated but hell every team does that with their own players. Just like we overvalue JJ and Prado. P’
I try hard not to overrate any of our players. I
am not a fan of Jones. His defense has gone tdownhill and he woulf most likely lose slugging % in the Ted. They want more than Jj and i wouldn’t do it even myself
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
12:15 am
And, somewhere, Mark Richt feels slightly better…
Couch Tater
January 3rd, 2012
12:16 am
Salt – Funny!
Stanford – W i d e………
left.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:17 am
Jim
No, there have been plenty of solid free agents who fit our budget and are looking at a 1 year deal. There are still some left. I dont want Wren to make a move just to make one. There are some solid options that make a ton of sense. Keep Prado and Jurrjens and improve the bench. Wilson Betemit is my No1 target who makes the most sense. Most likely looking at a 1 year deal. He made 1 mil last season so you have to figure it will double at most this season.
Couch Tater
January 3rd, 2012
12:20 am
Bama, LSU, OK State & Stanford would have been a fun +1 final four.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:20 am
MO if we fail to make the playoffs this season Wren or Fredi has to go. Just unacceptable…Va
wow. that is sure an unrealistic view. you do realize that most teams seldom make the playoffs. why would the Braves be any different?
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
12:21 am
nolie
I just don’t see JJ returning a player much better than Jones. Unless you chase prospects and one ends up turning out better than him. The guy has good numbers but like has been stated numerous times his value is down due to injury shortened years the last two years. If moved now I think we’d be lucky to pry someone like Jones for him. If you wait you have to hope he hits that 200 IP mark or makes 30+ starts next year to get good value for him. The highest his value will get will be mid season if he is pitching strongly.
SeATLite
January 3rd, 2012
12:22 am
Tom O, your Almighty Greatness>/b>, I will do so in the future. My name is actually Tom too, so the confusion never ends.
My concern is that, by the time Wren gets around to it, there may literally be no one available worth picking up. I myself am tired of hearing the Theriots and Cody Rosses of the world bandied about as potential targets, since I don’t think they really offer much in the way of improvement over what we have. And we do need improving. The rest of the division, with the exception of the Mets, has indeed gotten better, which, thanks to the unbalanced schedule, of course means it’s going to be tougher winning one of even two wild cards.
On the other hand, it’s a truism that Wren knows his business better than I. This is my mantra. It’s not doing much to keep me sane, though.
SeATLite
January 3rd, 2012
12:23 am
Oops, sorry about the typo that left my bold tag open there, folks.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:24 am
nolie
I’m just blowing smoke, but come on. We expect the Braves to be a playoff team.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:25 am
I just don’t see JJ returning a player much better than Jones. Unless you chase prospects and one ends up turning out better than him. P’
I don’t either, doesn’t mean I want Jones. rather keep JJ
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
12:25 am
VaBravesFan
Why I don’t think Betemit is a bad choice he strikes out a ton. He struck out 1 out of every 3 AB this year. I do like the fact thats hes a switch hitter which makes him a solid PH option late in games. Theres not much room to make to many additions however with Ross, Hinske and Diaz.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:27 am
after 55 years of baseball I don’t expect much of anything. Lotsa folks got spoiled by that run, but that is not gonna go on forever. Even the Yanks have had dry spells.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
12:28 am
VaBravesFan
I don’t see how the Braves can’t be seen as a playoff team? They removed a blackhole in the rotation. The bullpen will be deeper w/ Viz and Medlen in there a full year and Bourn will be here a full year. We won 89 games even w/ the terrible collapse. I don’t understand how one month of ball completely defines a team. Obviously September reigns supreme on everyones mind but a lot of people and baseball professionals consider this a very good team.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:29 am
SeATLite
Just emboldening my name would have been sufficient. However, I appreciate the extra attention, Tom.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:30 am
I can understand rolling with Hicks as our backup Shortstop, the free agent options are pretty comparable and would cost more. But i’m not confident in Diaz or Constanza. We already know Prado will be playing around 30 to 50 games at 3B. There’s a good chance Chipper could miss more time than expected making LF a huge hole. Replace Conrad with a solid part time player. Someone who can play COF or 3B. I really think we missed out on Andruw Jones for only 2 mil, Wilson Betemit is my favorite free agent that fits our need and budget.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:32 am
Pcola
Exactly, I agree were a really good team. Specially if the domino’s fall our way. But what happens if we finish 3rd or 4th and dont even make the Wild Card?
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:35 am
I myself am tired of hearing the Theriots and Cody Rosses of the world bandied about as potential targets, since I don’t think they really offer much in the way of improvement over what we have. And we do need improving. — SeATLite (I like the way you did the upper case, BTW)
The thing is, Wren doesn’t tell anyone about the names he’s trying to acquire. That’s been a Braves’ tradition for a long time.
The only names you’re hearing “bandied about”, are 100% total speculation.
It’s something for the blog to discuss and argue about, but not to take seriously. Everyone should relax and open a beer.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:36 am
why then we will have had a year like the majority of teams……
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
12:37 am
VaBravesFan
Thats very possible in this division. Its going to be tougher this year. I think Wren has done a great job rebuilding this team. I don’t blame him for staying out of the FA market this year as the top FA really didn’t stand out to me outside of Beltran (would have been very risky). Hes been involved in talks for players but it takes two to complete a trade. I understand his hesitance in moving Prado and JJ value is lower than it needs to be to move him. I’m suprised he hasn’t made a move on one of the smaller FA such as Betemit or Ross. But this hasn’t been a normal offseason with the CBA and everyone waiting to see what would happen there. The offseason has been slow in general as we are now in January and there are still some big names available.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:40 am
nolie
But most teams dont have a playoff roster. There expectations are lower than ours. Not making the playoffs is a failure. The offense killed us last year so the hitting coach took the fall. Makes sense.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:40 am
But what happens if we finish 3rd or 4th and dont even make the Wild Card? — VaBravesFan
I dunno…. hope the Mayans were right?
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
12:42 am
VaBravesFan
The offense struggled no doubt but I think the Braves were right in removing the hitting coach. The team was a top OBP team in 2010 and one of the worse in 2011. Thing that changed most was the hitting coach and players made mention of struggling to communicate to hitters.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:44 am
teams are great for a while and then fall back, it is the history of the game. the Braves are not always gonna be contenders every year
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:45 am
that would be a good excuse Tom, if there is anybody left to talk to about baseball……
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:47 am
I can see a coupla us skinny survivors shivering around a fire and complaing that we got robbed, that there was almost another full month left in which we coulda caught everybody else.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:51 am
nolie
A lot of the younger fans started rooting for the Braves in the 90’s. They are, now, having problems with them not winning every year.
They don’t know how bad they were, many years ago, like us older Braves’ veterans.
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
12:53 am
I appreciate that Tom is appropriately placing himself in the same age category as nolie (even with the smiley face)…
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:53 am
I sure remember Tom. I also remember how great the Orioles, Reds and Pirates were for an extended stretch
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:54 am
Tom is old in wisdom VJ
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
12:54 am
I’m glad I was quasi-rooting for two teams today that mangled potential victories by becoming too conservative and turning their fate over to kickers…
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
12:56 am
Time to head off – I need to be at work by 3 or 4 tomorrow… (maybe even 2 – not sure right now)…
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:56 am
Tom
Exactly!
I’m only 24 and I’ve been a Braves fan since 1997. So I watched my team make the playoffs 9 consecutive times and now only 1 time in the past 6 seasons.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:56 am
I’m glad that my criminoles came back in the second half and beat Notre Dame
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
12:57 am
I did start pretty early, Jim. By the time I really understood baseball (mid-80’s), the Braves sucked! But I hung in there because my Dad loved them. (I almost left home because of it)
I, also, checked out their history. The 70’s was no picnic, either.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
12:57 am
Well I’m calling it a night, have fun and cya later.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:58 am
I’d guess that over the next 6-8 years of fandom you will learn the hard lesson of baseball history Va
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
12:59 am
nite y’all
Braveone
January 3rd, 2012
12:59 am
From the previous blog which had 6,929 comments, Efrim led the way with 498 posts. There were 402 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:
Rank Poster Frequency
1 Efrim 498
2 nolie 451
3 jeffrey d 410
4 DS1 298
5 Bat Masterson 280
6 ChattTownBrian (CTB) 276
7 Ward 243
8 Brava 233
9 VaBravesFan 222
10 Lew 208
11 richbrave 174
12 uga-brave 155
13 keylargo 123
14 brian 113
15 cabravesfan 112
16 JoeBrave 109
17 Venice Jim 108
18 David O’Brien 104
19 MIBravesFan 86
20 Ray 79
21 DAP 78
22 tiger297 78
23 Tom O’Hawke 74
24 CB 70
25 TennesseePaul 70
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
1:00 am
Tom
Very True. I’m only 25 and followed the Braves closely ever since I was old enough to really start see what was going on. I’ve been watching games since 1994. What some don’t understand is that streak of 14 division titles isn’t just historical in baseball its unprecedented in professional sports. For guys and gals of my age all we really remember is associating October w/ Braves baseball. I’m hoping not to see to many down years and really hope the mid 2000’s were our down years and we will be competitive/ playoff caliber for the forth coming years.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
1:01 am
Hey, DOB, do you think there’s any possibility the Braves give up on the idea of finding a veteran backup SS and just let Simmons back up Pastornicky? — SeATLite
No. NO NO NO.
But good Sign o’ the Times reference.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
1:03 am
DOB,
Any chance that Freeman could be moved to LF to make room for Mauro Gomez at 1B? — Big Al
No.
Braveone
January 3rd, 2012
1:03 am
Top poster by 2011 blog post date:
Date Poster Frequency Percent
04JAN2011 nolie 429 8.8
11JAN2011 jeffrey d 510 9.0
20JAN2011 Trey 431 12.7
25JAN2011 nolie 375 9.0
01FEB2011 nolie 298 8.9
08FEB2011 Trey 245 7.5
15FEB2011 Arkansas Transplant 78 7.1
16FEB2011 nolie 59 7.0
17FEB2011 Arkansas Transplant 101 11.5
18FEB2011 nolie 137 9.7
21FEB2011 nolie 97 6.6
23FEB2011 P-Town Brave © 74 5.0
24FEB2011 P-Town Brave © 87 7.2
25FEB2011 Tomahawkin 146 9.8
27FEB2011 nolie 87 6.9
28FEB2011 P-Town Brave © 77 7.6
01MAR2011 P-Town Brave © 107 8.5
02MAR2011 Venice Jim 75 6.6
03MAR2011 P-Town Brave © 130 9.6
04MAR2011 Venice Jim 133 9.7
05MAR2011 Roman Gal 69 6.7
06MAR2011 BFChris26 96 12.1
07MAR2011 abwright 99 11.6
08MAR2011 nolie 56 5.7
09MAR2011 nolie 67 7.1
10MAR2011 Venice Jim 89 7.5
11MAR2011 Venice Jim 127 13.0
13MAR2011 Venice Jim 91 11.5
14MAR2011 abwright 71 7.2
15MAR2011 cabravesfan 103 8.1
16MAR2011 cabravesfan 106 7.2
17MAR2011 JC from DR! 162 14.4
18MAR2011 Brava 59 5.2
19MAR2011 cabravesfan 103 11.3
20MAR2011 Braves Paisan 77 9.5
21MAR2011 Ward 71 5.5
23MAR2011 Venice Jim 81 5.5
24MAR2011 Venice Jim 117 8.3
25MAR2011 Venice Jim 203 15.8
26MAR2011 MIBravesFan 175 12.1
27MAR2011 Roman Gal 103 6.0
29MAR2011 Tomahawkin 108 4.7
31MAR2011 nolie 137 4.1
02APR2011 MIBravesFan 164 6.5
03APR2011 BamaDude @ #1CowCollege AL 95 6.3
04APR2011 Venice Jim 107 4.8
05APR2011 Tomahawkin 104 5.8
06APR2011 Tomahawkin 97 4.7
07APR2011 nolie 104 4.8
08APR2011 Tomahawkin 114 5.8
09APR2011 nolie 81 6.4
10APR2011 Tomahawkin 116 5.0
12APR2011 Tomahawkin 74 4.9
13APR2011 nolie 105 8.0
14APR2011 JC from DR! 124 5.5
15APR2011 BravesQueen 186 7.5
17APR2011 JC from DR! 104 4.5
18APR2011 Arkansas Transplant 78 3.6
19APR2011 Tomahawkin 123 4.8
20APR2011 nolie 148 8.8
21APR2011 BravesQueen 113 4.4
22APR2011 Tomahawkin 105 7.5
23APR2011 haggard 76 4.7
24APR2011 Tomahawkin 115 5.3
25APR2011 Tomahawkin 107 4.7
26APR2011 Phil 56 3.6
27APR2011 jeffrey d 126 5.7
29APR2011 Tomahawkin 137 8.2
30APR2011 Tomahawkin 123 10.1
01MAY2011 Ward 70 4.9
02MAY2011 Tomahawkin 65 5.6
03MAY2011 haggard 70 6.1
04MAY2011 nolie 128 6.1
05MAY2011 Tomahawkin 94 4.8
06MAY2011 Tomahawkin 109 6.7
07MAY2011 DS1 54 5.6
08MAY2011 nolie 147 5.7
10MAY2011 cabravesfan 57 3.5
11MAY2011 Tomahawkin 85 4.7
12MAY2011 Lew 60 3.5
13MAY2011 Ronnie Gardocki 205 6.3
15MAY2011 cabravesfan 74 5.6
16MAY2011 Tomahawkin 84 6.1
17MAY2011 tiger297 84 4.1
18MAY2011 DS1 114 4.3
19MAY2011 Tomahawkin 54 3.0
20MAY2011 Bat Masterson 57 4.5
21MAY2011 cabravesfan 122 3.5
24MAY2011 cabravesfan 78 5.2
25MAY2011 cabravesfan 123 4.1
27MAY2011 BFChris26 92 6.1
28MAY2011 cabravesfan 86 5.8
29MAY2011 VaBravesFan 64 5.5
30MAY2011 abwright 61 5.4
31MAY2011 cabravesfan 49 3.5
01JUN2011 count_schemula 94 4.1
03JUN2011 DS1 71 4.9
04JUN2011 noleee 71 5.7
05JUN2011 noleee 87 4.5
07JUN2011 cabravesfan 45 3.7
08JUN2011 phil 65 4.2
09JUN2011 phil 62 3.7
12JUN2011 Tom O’Hawke 65 6.0
13JUN2011 Tomahawkin 50 4.9
14JUN2011 Tomahawkin 71 5.6
15JUN2011 phil 77 4.5
16JUN2011 nolee 109 5.4
17JUN2011 cabravesfan 95 5.8
18JUN2011 blast 83 5.0
19JUN2011 McFann :Ô: :Ô: 56 4.3
20JUN2011 cabravesfan 49 3.9
21JUN2011 nolee 96 7.0
22JUN2011 nolee 113 4.7
24JUN2011 Skip Caray 61 4.8
25JUN2011 jeffrey d 102 8.3
26JUN2011 jeffrey d 57 4.4
27JUN2011 nolee 138 8.1
28JUN2011 kwajbraves 64 3.5
29JUN2011 jeffrey d 102 4.4
01JUL2011 Owl Hunter 130 10.7
02JUL2011 Husker Tony 121 5.7
04JUL2011 Venice Jim 106 7.7
05JUL2011 bravesgrl4life 60 2.8
06JUL2011 phil 104 6.1
07JUL2011 nolee 83 4.6
08JUL2011 Tomahawkin 188 5.6
09JUL2011 nolee 43 7.6
10JUL2011 Ward 84 3.2
12JUL2011 nolee 136 4.9
15JUL2011 noleeee 73 6.1
16JUL2011 JoeBrave 104 11.4
17JUL2011 noleeee 89 5.8
18JUL2011 noleeee 111 4.9
19JUL2011 noleeee 52 2.9
20JUL2011 noleeee 124 4.4
21JUL2011 ken 62 3.0
22JUL2011 Wookie Ninja 106 3.7
23JUL2011 Tomahawkin 44 3.4
24JUL2011 ken 133 5.0
25JUL2011 Powder Blue 88 2.9
26JUL2011 Jerry 137 2.5
27JUL2011 noleeee 113 3.5
28JUL2011 Mixxo 80 2.3
29JUL2011 noliee 116 3.1
30JUL2011 JasonInFL 197 3.6
01AUG2011 kwajbraves 61 3.0
02AUG2011 PhilliesFan 74 3.3
03AUG2011 noliee 159 5.6
05AUG2011 noliee 132 7.9
06AUG2011 noliee 87 3.6
07AUG2011 Tomahawkin 97 4.8
09AUG2011 Wookie Ninja 71 3.0
10AUG2011 Shaun 89 3.7
12AUG2011 noliee 115 4.9
14AUG2011 Tomahawkin 60 4.0
16AUG2011 Tomahawkin 74 3.9
17AUG2011 noliee 113 6.8
18AUG2011 Lew 86 4.6
19AUG2011 noliee 122 5.6
21AUG2011 MIBravesFan 72 4.1
22AUG2011 Tomahawkin 60 3.5
23AUG2011 Efrim 89 4.8
24AUG2011 noliee 66 3.5
25AUG2011 noliee 216 8.2
28AUG2011 noliee 74 5.9
30AUG2011 Tomahawkin 71 4.3
31AUG2011 DS1 83 5.2
01SEP2011 Efrim 64 4.8
02SEP2011 McFann :Ô: :Ô: 62 4.8
03SEP2011 Trey 94 8.9
04SEP2011 Tomahawkin 105 6.9
05SEP2011 Efrim 68 4.6
06SEP2011 McFann :Ô: :Ô: 74 3.4
07SEP2011 Efrim 88 3.6
08SEP2011 tiger297 85 4.0
09SEP2011 McFann :Ô: :Ô: 87 5.0
10SEP2011 MIBravesFan 61 4.1
11SEP2011 Efrim 44 3.8
12SEP2011 Bobbys Booger 94 4.2
13SEP2011 phil 72 5.3
14SEP2011 phil 104 4.7
16SEP2011 Efrim 51 3.6
17SEP2011 Tom O’Hawke 69 5.9
18SEP2011 phil 115 6.4
19SEP2011 Efrim 100 4.1
20SEP2011 Efrim 164 7.0
21SEP2011 Efrim 195 5.3
23SEP2011 Brava 64 3.1
24SEP2011 Tom O’Hawke 66 4.4
25SEP2011 Efrim 137 5.4
26SEP2011 Efrim 123 3.8
27SEP2011 Efrim 154 4.3
28SEP2011 Efrim 573 4.8
06OCT2011 nolie 358 6.2
16OCT2011 Efrim 332 8.8
24OCT2011 Efrim 319 7.9
01NOV2011 Efrim 179 7.0
04NOV2011 Efrim 427 10.1
10NOV2011 Efrim 411 7.8
18NOV2011 nolie 462 9.2
29NOV2011 nolie 384 10.4
05DEC2011 Efrim 529 8.2
14DEC2011 nolie 218 6.0
19DEC2011 Efrim 498 7.2
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
1:04 am
VaBravesFan
I hear you, man. When the Braves won their division in 91, I was thinking, FINALLY!!!
The long streak of winning every year became addictive. It’s tough to get used to being an “also ran”.
But, as nolie says, that’s baseball. I think the Braves do a great job, with their payroll constraints considered, every year in putting up a team that should be in the hunt for the year.
Most teams’ fans can’t say that.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
1:07 am
DOB- Do Breeden’s teammates call him Gramps? — TNScott
He looked almost old enough to be the Stanford kicker’s dad.
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
1:08 am
Sad to discover that JoeBrave is coming between cab and me…
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
1:10 am
Wow – Efrim really dominating of late…
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
1:12 am
Funny – outside of the spring training blogs I won when I was doing mucho play-by-play, my only other top spot was July 4 when cab went off with her family…
Venice Jim
January 3rd, 2012
1:13 am
Really going to bed now – good night, all!
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
1:19 am
I’ll have to start typing again. I can’t let VJ beat me two times in a row. Good night, buddy.
DOB
I went back to see what I was alluding to. It had to be that, “Half Glass Broken”, dude.
He wanted to start calling the Braves, the Atlanta IFS, based on the speculations of your blog.
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 3rd, 2012
1:45 am
QUESTION: Why is a position apparently being given to an unproven rookie with no MLB experience without competition?
This is why teams finish in the second division. Everything’s played out on paper.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
1:57 am
The A Bomb
Are you talking about Chipper Jones, Jason Heyward, or Freddie Freeman?
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 3rd, 2012
2:05 am
Jones – callup ‘93 – No. 1 pick. Credentials.
Freeman – callup ‘10. No. 2 pick. Credentials.
Heyward – Minor League Player of the Year. Credentials.
Pastornicky: Good prospect, no experience. Best sample size at AA. Error machine.
Very risky move. Very risky. This is shortstop we’re talking about. Make the guy work.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
2:14 am
how risky can it be compared to what else was available?. it would be hard to be worse than most of those guys are
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
2:17 am
I’m sure another SS was in Wren’s “A” plan, A Bomb. Maybe, still is. However, sometimes when that option fails, one has to go with plan “B”.
There’s still almost 4 months before the opening day lineup is posted. There’ll be plenty of time to complain after that.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
2:19 am
Oh, crap!!! We woke up, nolie. Sorry, buddy.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
2:19 am
I don’t know Tom, he said all along that he would not pay much or more than one year. not sure what anybody expected him to get within those parameters
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
2:22 am
been awake, just finished up the last few episodes of Suits. pretty good show IMO.
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
2:24 am
I don’t know either, nolie. All I know is I have faith in what he’s trying to do, and I’m not going to complain about what I think are his failures, this early!
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
2:27 am
Just for the halibut (we fishermen use that term to death), what do you think of Pastornicky’s (sp?) defense. Or haven’t you ever seen him?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
2:32 am
I saw him a bit in high school down here and a short video from this year that a friend sent. I think he will be an OK defender. seems to have decent range, arm might not be great but should suffice. had pretty good hands in HS. I was a bit surprised when I saw his numbers in the minors, I thought he would be some better than that.20 some errors if he plays full time perhaps?
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
2:35 am
nolie,
You like to look at other stats, rather than errors. Are those stats available for minor leaguers?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
2:40 am
for his MilB career he is -3 on his Total Zone Runs Above Average, which would suggest that he is very close to average I guess. The numbers I usually quote from Bill James site are not available for minors guys
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
2:42 am
I bought a network (ethernet) cable splitter almost a month ago. It’s coming from China, and only cost $.06, TOTAL, including shipping.
It hasn’t arrived yet, and the seller is worried about it. I just got my second e-mail from him in the last 2 days. He’s worried about negative eBay feedback.
For the 2nd time, I told him to relax. Just the fact that he’s TRYING to send me something from China, for 6 freakin’ cents, is enough to give the most incredible, positive feedback in the history of eBay.
6 cents, delivered??? Are you kidding me?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
2:48 am
I wonder if it will work as long as it has taken getting to you?
Tom O'Hawke
January 3rd, 2012
3:00 am
Well, holy SMOKES!!! That’s the first post I’ve had eaten in a while.
Sorry, nolie, I’m not gonna retype it. (I can’t flatter you like that twice in the same night.)
Braves interested in Cody Ross? | yoursportsinfo.com
January 3rd, 2012
7:03 am
[...] Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that the Atlanta Braves have some interest in Ross but “would want the price to keep coming down.” The word from the AJC is that Ross “wants something in the neighborhood of the [...]
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
7:48 am
Sometimes we have short memories, Prado if I remember correctly when he was first going to take over 2nd base, he had limited range and had stone hands—(sound familiar) He worked his butt off and became a solid infielder. I think with Pastor.. we are going to like his speed. I don’t think he will be a Gonzo of 2011 but I don’t think he is going to be a Theroit either. The kid may start off a little slow especially in spring training but will settle in come opening day.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
8:11 am
From Jon Heyman:
“A number of forum posters and I mentioned that the signing of Crisp would give the Orioles an opportunity to deal Adam Jones. And it appears we may have been on to something, as Scott Swaim (he broke the Albert Pujols deal with the Angels) is reporting that the Orioles and Braves are “making progress on an Adam Jones deal”:
CB
January 3rd, 2012
8:14 am
Very sorry to hear of the passing of Jim Huber,loved his commentary.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
8:17 am
Scott Swaim
@MLBInsideNews
Multiple connections in the MLB. Broke the news of Albert Pujols signing with the Angels, Cuddyer/Rockies, Furcal/Cardinals, Beltran/Cardinals
Talks about JJ in the Adam Jones potential deal.
https://twitter.com/MLBInsideNews
Ralph
January 3rd, 2012
8:23 am
NL East would need 3 Wild Cards for the Braves to make the post season this year, provided they could beat out the Mets for 4th place which i’m not too sure about.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
8:29 am
Ralph, and others of your ilk – I disagree. I strongly believe we will make at least wild card. Time will tell, as they say…and of course, you are assuming that we will make no additional moves, which is wrong.
panamajack
January 3rd, 2012
8:32 am
If Prado goes to Denver he will hit 300 plus and 25 HR”s and Smith would hit 250 with 15 HR’s in Atlanta, sounds like a great trade.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:44 am
NL East would need 3 Wild Cards for the Braves to make the post season this year, provided they could beat out the Mets for 4th place which i’m not too sure about.
Hah!
Ralph
January 3rd, 2012
8:44 am
All the trade rumors involving Prado for a corner outfielder make no sence to me, except maybe Adam Jones, I see no improvement plus Prado can fill in at 3rd and 2nd base. Looks to me we need a Right Fielder instead of a Left Fielder.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
8:45 am
IF JJ goes to Baltimore for Adam Jones, I don’t see the need for Prado to be traded to the Rox. Of the outfielders that were out there like Quentin or even Cody Ross, I personally think Jones would be better. IMO jones bourne and heyward is better than insert ross instead of jones. Plus we would have the benefit of prado there to fill in when one of the outfielders needs a break or chipper. Now depending on what else we have to give up is what concerns me. I don’t see the O’s doing it straight up. No way.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:47 am
Coco Crisp isn’t going ot Baltimore. Heyman has already reported that it’s not the team he chose. Looks like Jones is staying put…..thankfully.
Ralph
January 3rd, 2012
8:49 am
Ray, how bout Jones, Bourn, and Prado????????
panamajack
January 3rd, 2012
8:52 am
JJ and J Hey for Adam Jones.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:54 am
Just saw that from Scott Swaim. He doesn’t look like the most credible source, imo.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
8:54 am
I was just thinking, I hope Wren isn’t thinking bourn and jj to O’s for Jones and something else. Thats not viable. Or is it? lets hope not.
bustersonly
January 3rd, 2012
8:56 am
Right on Ralph and panamajack, don’t think I can take another year of Wayward.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:56 am
JJ and J Hey for Adam Jones.
That’d be an awful trade. Worst trade of the century.
reagan
January 3rd, 2012
8:56 am
CB……ditto on the passing of Jim Huber. He was a real pro and spoke eloquently as opposed to all the “talking sports heads” who all sound like each other. A loss!
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
8:59 am
Ralph @8:44 – We have a right fielder…Heyward will be fine.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2012
9:02 am
Much ado about……………nothing. Great to have a new article to read though. Hope DOB got home to enjoy some of that fantastic eastern N.C. ‘Q’ Here’s the report on the minor’s.
BTW, makes me feel great to read about PASTORNICKY, SIMMONS, TERDOSLAVICH, and know who they are and what they’ve been doing in the organization rather than going, “whaa-a-a……….who’s he?? “Is he a BRAVE?” I feel a bgit less clueless. Probably shouldn’t, but I do. Anyway, hope 2012 treats us all to a World Championship………..Go BRAVES.
WINTER BALL
AUSTRALIA
No games scheduled.
DOMINICA – playoffs
ESCOGIDO LIONS
No BRAVES played.
LICEY TIGERS
1B DONEL LINARES [.118 BA] 1-4, 1 RBI [1], 1 SO.
RHRP JAIRO ASENCIO [18.00 ERA] 0.0 IP, 3 H, 4 R/ER, 1 BB, 4 BF, 0 GO/ 0 AO. Ouch. His second stinker of an outing in 24 this fall-winter. And both have been in his last three mound appearances. Hum-m. Long season?
PUERTO RICO – regular season ends 1/4/12
No games scheduled
VENEZUELA – playoffs begin 1/2/12
No games scheduled. WTF?
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
9:02 am
bustersonly – Guess you’ll have to stop watching the Braves. Heyward will have a bounceback year. I won’t call you names, but Buggs Bunny would say you are a “maroon”.
bustersonly
January 3rd, 2012
9:04 am
That’d be an awful trade. Worst trade of the century.
You won’t say that after JJ goes down with a bum knee and Wayward batts 220 with 100 strike outs and 15 walks.
Braves interested in Cody Ross? | sportsinfoworld.com
January 3rd, 2012
9:04 am
[...] Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that the Atlanta Braves have some interest in Ross but “would want the price to keep coming down.” The word from the AJC is that Ross “wants something in the neighborhood of the [...]
Around The Horn
January 3rd, 2012
9:08 am
BRAVES IOWA CAUCUS: NO ON SMITH
Why vote “yes” on S. Smith when the Braves have M. Prado, who isn’t a one dimensional player like Smith (i.e. Prado can hit right handed or left handed pitchers; Smith cannot) and can back up Chipper at 3rd?
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
9:15 am
busteronly.. do you seriously believe JH is going to walk only 15 times the entire season? Really? And I do agree with Efrim, that would be a horrendous trade on many fronts including from a financial standpoint. Makes zero sense.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
9:18 am
I’m not on any list…cool
I have a life, lol.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:22 am
Not really a fan at all of Adam Jones. Low OBP, power in a hitters ballpark.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
9:24 am
Temps all the way up to 16 now – It was below zero overnight – almost as cold as the MLB trade front.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:25 am
One of my fears in acquiring Adam Jones would be where Fredi would hit him in the lineup. Could see him batting 2nd right behind Bourn. Terrible. Jones shouldn’t be hitting any higher than 7th.
bustersonly
January 3rd, 2012
9:26 am
Ray, I realize J Hey has many fans though I can only think of one reason why but I hope he has a monster season which I doubt but after all my favorite food is Crow.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
9:27 am
Well how about this one then….. Bourne and JJ to O’s for Jones and another piece. O’s need a leadoff hitter and Bourne is a Boros client who LIKELY isn’t coming back to ATL after next season.
Jones in a CF who arb this year and next year (made 3.25 mil in 2011)and FA in 2014. Until they aquired Bourne, the Braves have utilized a flavor of the month leadoff hitter since Furcal left. The O’s seem to be more in love with the idea of a prototypical leadoff hitter than the Braves do.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
9:31 am
Right. The Braves traded for Bourn at the deadline just so they could tunr him over pre – season for ?
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:37 am
Braves aren’t trading Bourn. This talk is pretty absurd.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
9:38 am
“Right. The Braves traded for Bourn at the deadline just so they could tunr him over pre – season for ?”
Right. The Braves traded for Bourn at the deadline just so they could TRY and make the playoffs in 2011 but shamelessly melted down. It’s not exactly as if Bourn turned into the franchise player in half a season as a Brave now is it?
There are probably no more than 3 guys on the Braves roster, if that many, who are untouchable in trade talks for the right deal. I don’t think Bourn is one of them, do you?
and to requote you….”Right. The Braves traded for Bourn at the deadline just so they could tunr him over pre – season for ?”
Adam Jones…,.. who isn’t a Boros client and who is under control for two more seasons.
McFann O O o
January 3rd, 2012
9:40 am
Salt Life does me good to chat with you
I enjoy talking to you, as well.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
9:40 am
“Braves aren’t trading Bourn. This talk is pretty absurd.”
Thinking that the Braves would not think of trading a Boros client who is on his way out of town at the end of 2012 is absurd!
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
9:43 am
Boros is already making his case that Bourn will be even more valuable playing his home games on a surface that is more consistent than the TED. If that isn’t shopping your client to other teams even before Bourn’s final season in ATL, I don’t know what is!
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
9:45 am
I would be surprised if the braves traded bourn. I just don’t see it. Possible of course but I don’t think the O’s are going to give up what it would take to get both bourn and JJ. Their asking price for Jones alone is absurd.
Jim Hertel
January 3rd, 2012
9:47 am
I wouldn’t get too worked up about a Baltimore trade. Their owner will never sign off on any trade. He never can decide to either crap or get off the pot.
On the other hand, I think it is becoming increasing clear that Wren’s hands are tied by Liberty. We’ve seen too many players go to other teams that could have helped Atlanta. I’m thinking Punto to Boston for a reasonable salary, and Quentin to San Diego. That one really sticks in my throat. We surely could have put together a better package without touching our first line of pitching talent.
I just think Wren can’t move — we all know he wants to — and our players are not valued as highly by others as we value them.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
9:48 am
Boras Phobia strikes again. Actually, almost all agents get great deals for players who have great (or at least above average) talent. Most of Boras’ clients have great talent, and a high profile. That’s the main reason you hear so much about him (and therefore fear him). If I were a top MLB player, I would likely hire him to represent me.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:50 am
I don’t think Bourn is going to be back in Atlanta for 2013. But that’s a terrible reason to think they should trade him now. He’ll play the year out here and then be playing somewhere else in 2013. Nothing wrong with that as I don’t think we gave up much for him to begin with.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
9:52 am
Efrim @9:50 – Voice of reason, once again.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
9:53 am
Ray,
I don’t really see Bourn being the piece for Jones either, unless it was muliti-player trade to address lots of holes on both sides. My argument is not that I really think Bourn will be traded, but that these “know it alls” are actually acting a bit idiotic just by slamming the door on the idea that a guy who is going to be leaving at the end of the season would not even be considered for trade by the Braves. I don’t think anyone in their right mind thinks that in half a season Michael has become untouchable for trade consideration.
In fact, if the Braves are 12 back at the all-star break, Bourn will be dealt so quick it would make you head spin!
Braves interested in Cody Ross? | blacxbox.com
January 3rd, 2012
9:54 am
[...] Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that the Atlanta Braves have some interest in Ross but “would want the price to keep coming down.” The word from the AJC is that Ross “wants something in the neighborhood of the [...]
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
9:54 am
Oblique – Good name – it fits your suggestion. Bourn won’t be traded.
Murph
January 3rd, 2012
9:59 am
Checked in to catch up on Braves news this morning and it appears I missed absolutely nothing over the last three weeks… not a bad thing in my opinion.
Hope y’all had great holidays and a fantastic start to 2012.
TennesseePaul
January 3rd, 2012
10:00 am
Nothing wrong with that as I don’t think we gave up much for him to begin with.
All the Braves traded for Bourn was minor leaguers Brett Oberholtzer, Paul Clemens, and Juan Abreu… and not a single other player with the capacity to play the game on any level. 3 baseball players. That’s it. All of whom don’t really project to high in the majors. That’s not a bad trade at all.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:01 am
Wayward batts 220 with 100 strike outs and 15 walks…buster
the mere fact that you would attribute 15 walks to Jason shows that you don’t know your arse from a hole in the ground
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:02 am
“Boras Phobia strikes again. Actually, almost all agents get great deals for players who have great (or at least above average) talent.”
And the Braves aren’t in the business of competing in the FA market for Boros clients. Last Boros FA they signed was lets see………. Lowe? Ouch!
Two players listed on the Braves roster are represented by Boros. JJ and Bourn. JJ is headed out of town if they can move him, and Bourn is headed out of town at the end of next year.
Remember according to reports right here in the AJC… Braves want a CF option for the future in any deal with the Rox. So the Braves know that Bourn is gone after 2012.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2012
10:03 am
Coach (2012 Fredi’s beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
9:18 am
I’m not on any list…cool I have a life, lol.
Heh! I was thinking the same thing!
extremus
January 3rd, 2012
10:04 am
Great, just what we need, a prospect “that’s always dreamed of playing for the Yankees”. If he reaches star status I guess that means Atlanta will be a farm club for New York for all intents and purposes, at least in that case.
As for baseball team ownership passion, Ted Turner owns John Malone. So there.
PMC
January 3rd, 2012
10:06 am
You aren’t winning championships with Seth Smith.
Therefore, I’m not buying freaking tickets to see Seth Freaking SMITH!
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:06 am
“Oblique – Good name – it fits your suggestion. Bourn won’t be traded.”
That’s what I like about Lew. He is predictable. If he can’t back up an argument with baseball acumen, he starts with personal rips.
When he does that, you have won the argument
PMC
January 3rd, 2012
10:07 am
Braves covet the guy, because he’s cheap should be the headline for every trade or free agent move.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
10:08 am
richbrave, you make a good point in your line about Asencio’s performance. When I see a major league pitcher making 20-some winter-ball appearances into January, you just have to wonder if they’ll be ready to crank it back up just six or seven weeks from now at spring training and stay strong again for seven or eight months.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:08 am
So what if he’s gone at the end of the season? He still won’t be traded now. He put up better numbers than Jordan McNatefer and stole more bases, even though falling short of what he produced in Houston. He has speed, is great defensively and is one of the best lead off hitters out there.
Who, exactly are you going to get for him from the Orioles? Adam Jones? And how, exactly does that improve the Braves when what we need is someone to fill in in LF and RF when Prado plays third – then we’d have to go find another CFer, too. Do you truly see Wren making more than one deal when it’s been so hard just to make one?
Boras be damned – it ain’t happening.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:10 am
Yeah and if you can’t make a reasonable suggestion and people call you on it, there’s always the “Lew is predictable” to fall back on. Sheesh. What a douche.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
10:14 am
Why are people so obsessed with retaining trade acquistions? Who gives if Michael Bourn leaves via free agency? Who cares if the Braves have to fill a glaring need next offseason? Teams enter the offseason with needs quite often. It’s okay to have a need and to work on filling it during the November-January timeframe. That’s what the offseason is for.
Bobo is Not the Problem
January 3rd, 2012
10:16 am
How can you print anything an agent says with a straight face? They’re car salesmen. Constant posturing. You should be asahmed at your own ignorance for acting as Boras’ tool to pump his client.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:18 am
We gave up nothing for him and next winter we will have enough extra cash to pick someone up if he does leave via Free Agency (which I imagine he will). Right now we have a limited budget and they picked him up to fill a need we’ve had for a couple of years. NO reason for Wren to trade him now when he has other needs to fill and plenty of pieces to trade for what he needs.
If you truly want to think outside the box on a trade, look to what Wren did to get Bourn – he could pull the same type of deal off right now to get the pieces we need without trading a need we already filled.
Bobo is Not the Problem
January 3rd, 2012
10:18 am
Lew is predictable.
Just had to get that in there.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:18 am
well I see we have another multiple-personality poster going again this morning. Prolly Lou/Earl/etc feeling frisky
Odelay
January 3rd, 2012
10:19 am
DOB, you’re the first person I’ve ever heard of to mention the pastornicky-as-chipper’s-heir thing. Almost every scout agrees his arm is too weak to stick on the left side of the infield for very long. I feel like you just made that up so that you could disagree with it. Slow news day?…year? I mean slow news year.
Man, I feel like the Braves are never going to do anything.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
10:19 am
Oblique (Obtuse) – Hanson is a Boras client…I expect him to stick around a while…if healthy.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:20 am
nolie – Yep, and THAT is what is predicatble.
Just had to get that in there.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:24 am
“Who, exactly are you going to get for him from the Orioles? Adam Jones?”
Yes, he plays CF.
“And how, exactly does that improve the Braves when what we need is someone to fill in in LF and RF when Prado plays third – then we’d have to go find another CFer, too.”
It may not improve the Braves, but trading Prado for Seth Smith doesn’t exactly improve the Braves either. And no you would not have to find another CFer. Jones plays center.
“Do you truly see Wren making more than one deal when it’s been so hard just to make one?”
Yeah I do because Wren will rob Peter to pay Paul. Jones is under team control for two more years and is not represented by Boros. And yes, Boros IS the boogieman! He breaks up far more team/player relationships than any other agent. Bourn will be on the first bus out of town at the end of the 2012 season, but more likely at the trade deadline in 2012 if the Braves are toast by then.
Wren can address this season and next in CF by acquiring Jones. He could keep Prado and roll along with Jones in Center instead of Bourn. Besides, there may be different factors at play if Wren waits another year to evaluate what he actually has and what pieces may be available after the 2012 season.
Will it improve the team? Who knows. I don’t think Wren is going to improve the team much this off-season with any trade he is considering.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
10:24 am
I think Jon Heyman is a joke. Wonder if he gets paid for how many rumors he reports? If I was his boss I would notice how many of his stories turn out to be fairy tails.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
10:25 am
Bourn isn’t likely to get traded until at least July. Even then It will require two factors.
1. Braves are in third place or worse.
2. Big time prospects in return to replace the draft picks lost.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
10:26 am
I think I’ll cry with joy if Hanson is healthy and dealing in Spring Training. Just had to get that out there.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:28 am
Oblique – Whatever. We can’t seem to make a single deal, so you’d go out and not be able to make two deals – and STILL barely improving the Braves, because you still have no net gain,on RH Hitters – which are needed in this LH dominant lineup. What you’ve actually done is improve power a bit, lost defense, speed and your lead off hitter.
Yep, pretty freaking oblique.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:28 am
Pastornicky was clocked in a HS talent game at 90mph from SS with usual readings in the mid 80s. In HS anything over 80-82 is considered pretty good, 86-90 is above average
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:29 am
“Sheesh. What a douche.”
And as if on cue, the pot calls the kettle black.
“We gave up nothing for him and next winter we will have enough extra cash to pick someone up if he does leave via Free Agency ”
Ahhh the old, “we will have enough extra cash?” argument. The same extra cash that always seems to disappear every off season?
Arkansas Transplant
January 3rd, 2012
10:29 am
Although I really don’t care if they trade Bourn, there’s absolutely no way I would trade him and Prado or someone else to acquire Jones. Jones is extremely overrated at that price. But, I wouldn’t mind seeing us use a Bourn/Prado or Bourn/JJ package to acquire a return of Austin Jackson, Castellanos, Flynn and Fields. I’d definitely pull the trigger on something like that that would fix our cf position for an extended amount of time plus give us a great return of prospects along with someone that could possibly be Chipper’s heir at 3rd. Or at the very least, a group of prospects that we could use to improve elsewhere if need be.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
10:29 am
Why do the naysayers assume that NONE of the Braves that were hurt or underperformed last year will do the same (or worse) this year? I believe at least some (probably most) will bounce back. I also believe the September crash was an abberation, unlikely to be repeated.
On the positive side, we can all agree (I hope) that no Lowe, McLouth, and KK are positives, the new batting coaching duo will probably help, and the bullpen will be amoung the best in MLB.
I also know that Wren is not through with this team, and may not be until end of ST.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:30 am
Jones sux in center any more. Bill James site lists him very low the last three years
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
10:30 am
my oblique Bourne and JJ to O’s for Jones and another piece. O’s need a leadoff hitter and Bourne is a Boros client who LIKELY isn’t coming back to ATL after next season.
but the O’s arent close to competing. they dont need bourne (especially if they arent signing crsip, which is why folks are thinking jones might be available) and honestly, they dont need JJ. O’s should be trading for beachy or minor, maybe some young relievers or minor league players. not guys with one or two years of control.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:33 am
the Os owner is a moron, hard to get a reliable feel for what he might do
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
10:34 am
DAP – Don’t confuse us with logic, and the facts.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
10:34 am
If the O’s are trading Adam Jones – shouldn’t it be strictly for prospects? Seems bizarre that they would even want Jurrjens. I know they need another veteran starter, but using Adam Jones to get that seems strange. I don’t buy the rumors, and Heyman has already stated this morning that Crisp isn’t signing with Baltimore.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
10:35 am
nolie – Agreed. All of those who wish for a new owner (local individual) only need to look at Baltimore to realize we could be a lot worse off.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:35 am
No, I didn’t call a pot or a kettle black. I called you a douiche. Pretty accurate, IMO. Or would it be more accurate if I called you an uninformed douche?
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:37 am
Actually the argument digressed from a simple “if you don’t like that rumor, try this one” to a full blown Bourn for Jones trade.
I don’t think the Braves are trading Bourn for Jones. Never did. I was just arguing that it wasn’t a completely, nuthouse concept that the Braves would trade Bourn should an opportunity arise to fill the CF slot with someone who will be around past 2012.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
10:37 am
Efrim, don’t hold your breath. The big red head scares the hell out of me. Tommy is ninety percent arm action and little else throwing the ball. Hanson does have the arm and body to reach triple digits. However, his lack of pitching mechanics limits his velocity to the mid nineties. So until Tommy develops proper pitching techniques, he’s one pitch away from retirement.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
10:38 am
I’m just talking in general about Heyman, I sure am happy he wrong about this trade. Adam Jones would be a downgrade to Prado in LF. Adam Jones is like BJ Upton tons of potential that could explode. But i’m not trading Jurrjens for that chance
dap01
January 3rd, 2012
10:38 am
The Rockies trade makes no sense. Who will back up third when Prado leaves? Why do we even remotely need a left handed platoon corner outfielder? The only thing that makes sense is the Braves are trying desperately to unload payroll.
Good luck selling tickets this year.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:39 am
“Pretty accurate, IMO.”
Yes Lew and opinions are like……. well you know the rest. And you should know that very well because you are brown from head to toe.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
10:40 am
Sign Wilson Betemit……….1 year deal should fit budget….keep Prado and Jurrjens.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
10:40 am
my oblique, point is trading bourne doesnt make alot of sense for the braves, and your specific trade proposal makes no sense at all for the O’s. its not gonna happen.
trading bourne would mean we got a comparable player back, like Austin Jackson, as AT suggested.
dap01
January 3rd, 2012
10:41 am
Unless FW pulls a rabbit out of the hat and really surprises us with a trade that actually helps our team, he is in the running for “Worst GM of the Year:” He has (so far) had a horrible offseason.
JRW
January 3rd, 2012
10:42 am
Interesting read on Fielder, the Nationals re-pore with Borras and the their possible pursuit of Michael Bourn next off season
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Prince-Fielder-Washington-Nationals-mlb-hot-stove-free-agency-010212
TennesseePaul
January 3rd, 2012
10:42 am
Finally watched Money Ball last night. It was an entertaining movie. My wife loved it. She loves baseball, but doesn’t follow it as much as I do. I really liked it, but liked the book more. Having read the book and lived through the events, I did find the Carlos Pena trade scene to be a bit understated and over-simplified.
The movie:
A’s: “You want Pena? He’s yours for a reliever.”
Tigers: “What’s the catch?”
A’s: “No catch. Just need a reliever.”
Tigers: “OK”
Bean to Art: “You can’t put Pena in the line up tonight…”
Real life:
Traded as part of a 3-team trade by the Oakland Athletics with a player to be named later and Franklyn German to the Detroit Tigers. The New York Yankees sent Jason Arnold (minors), John-Ford Griffin and Ted Lilly to the Oakland Athletics. The Detroit Tigers sent Jeff Weaver to the New York Yankees. The Detroit Tigers sent cash to the Oakland Athletics. The Oakland Athletics sent Jeremy Bonderman (August 22, 2002) to the Detroit Tigers to complete the trade.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
10:42 am
also, lets not rule out the braves resigning bourne. we are going to need a CFer in 2013, and chances are really good its going to be someone from outside the organization. so with all those free agent CFers, no reason to think bourne (or victorino, or upton) might not get hired by the braves.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
lso, lets not rule out the braves resigning bourne. DAP
very low odds IMO
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
DOB, you’re the first person I’ve ever heard of to mention the pastornicky-as-chipper’s-heir thing. Almost every scout agrees his arm is too weak to stick on the left side of the infield for very long. I feel like you just made that up so that you could disagree with it. Slow news day?…year? I mean slow news year. — Odelay
READ the blog. I was asked by some fans about Pastornicky, and I said I’ve never heard anyone in the Braves organization mention that as a possibility and that it makes no sense because Pastornicky doesn’t profile as a third baseman, but Terdoslavich does. What are you reading? Just go on my Twitter feed from yesterday to see the question asked — by a fan, not a scout or anyone else. A fan. Just as I’m asked countless times whether Prado could move to shortstop to replace Alex Gonzalez, even though we know he’s not a shortstop and that’s his worst defensive position, as we’ve stated numerous times.
People ask questions, Odelay. If you choose to doubt those are actual people asking those questions, well, then I don’t know what to tell you.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
nolie the Os owner is a moron, hard to get a reliable feel for what he might do
fair point.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
10:45 am
For folks complaining about payroll, it seems that the Braves got their run going in ‘91 with a very cheap team, picked up some payroll to finally win the WS, and then declined back to mid market figures.
Except for the Yankees, it does seem that teams move up the list in payroll for a few years, only to decline again to the middle while someone else goes up the list.
Phillies will prolly be a big number for a few years and then return to their norms. Maybe the gNats are the next team to climb the big mountain.
Braves will prolly go another decade before thinking about returning to their big spender ways.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:46 am
Thanks for the link, JRW.
And as if on cue, Ken Rosenthal writes:
“Yet, if the Nats traded Zimmerman, they could clear not just a position for Rendon, but also a high-salaried slot for yet another Boras client — center fielder Michael Bourn, who will be a free agent next offseason. For now, the Nats’ plan is to use Werth as a stopgap in center as they wait for Bourn and other center fielders to hit the open market.”
Nahh. Braves would not even consider trading Bourn. Or JJ. Or anyone else they think they won’t be able to sign.
Arkansas Transplant
January 3rd, 2012
10:47 am
I’d really like to see that return from Detroit. It would definitely free up payroll plus add a lot of depth to our positional players in the minors.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
10:47 am
nolie so, lets not rule out the braves resigning bourne. DAP
very low odds IMO
but there is a 100% chance the braves will need a CFer in 2013. they dont have one ready to play in the system so…. seems to me that braves are as likely to resign bourne as they are any of the free agent CFers.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
10:48 am
If I’m brown, it’s as a result of all the crap you’re spouting and spreading around here this morniong Lou/Earl/My Name Is Legion.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
10:49 am
JRW
Yeah yesterday I was posted the possible 2013 Nationals Lineup. They have been interested in Bourn for a while and will continue to spend money. They like BJ Upton and Denard Span a ton too.
CF Bourn
SS Espinosa
3B Zimmerman
1B Fielder
LF Werth
C Ramos
RF Harper
2B Rendon
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:49 am
possible, but gonna be too expensive IMO DAP.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
10:51 am
“If I’m brown, it’s as a result of all the crap you’re spouting and spreading around here this morniong Lou/Earl/My Name Is Legion.”
Lew, paranoia is not a pretty thing. Get help.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
10:51 am
guy dropped back to his 87 career OPS+ in Atlanta with a stinky 321 OBP. If he has another year like that he might stay affordable but who wants that from a leadoff hitter? If he has a better season he is gonna draw big bucks I think
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
10:52 am
Another utterly random thought …
With 30 teams in MLB (not always of course) and about 150 years of history, on average every team should have won about 4 WS.
Granted, the Yankees and Cardinals have been the big gluttons, and teams like the Braves (longest continuously running MLB franchise) have been abstemious (3 WS in their history). Still, one WS every 30 years would have to be considered the norm. Of course, if Lonnie Smith rounds second base and goes on to score, Braves would be right on their average.
I’m not that well-versed on Cubbie history, but I think, if any team could complain about long-term suckage, it would be the Cubs (longest current drought between WS wins).
Based on my 30 years between WS wins, Braves will have to wait til 2025 to win it all again.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
10:53 am
Of course, the Boston Red Sox won two-three Championships in the early days (can’t remember the exact years or numbers) and then went about 100 years before winning two more. Could be another 100 years before they pick up their next WS.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
10:57 am
Ya’ll stop drinking the kool aid. Bourn is gone after 2012. He’s gonna get something similar to the seven year 142 million contract afforded to Carl Crawford. Which is way to rich for the Braves budgetary constraints.
mikey d
January 3rd, 2012
10:57 am
Hey Dave – Thanks for the blog – hope you see this – any reason the Braves aren’t resigning Jack Wilson? Seems like a good fit for what they are trying to do and a good team guy. Just wondering.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:00 am
Coco Crisp close to returning to A’s. Crisp in CF, Reddick in RF. They have to finally give Michael Taylor a shot in LF to see if the kid can play or not, right?
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:01 am
Edgar Renteria and or Jeff Keppinger to the bench. But I suspect Wren is trying to unload Jurrjens before adding more payroll.
Humbug
January 3rd, 2012
11:04 am
For the Braves sake I hope they keep Martin Prado. He is a very good player who was handicapped last season by a staph infection. Since he has
recovered from that he should regain his past hustle and I don’t think there is a better replacement for Chipper at third base. He deserves that chance.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:04 am
Bourn is not gonna get 20 mil per year, not even close.
of course neither should Crawford
RC
January 3rd, 2012
11:05 am
Ya’ll stop drinking the kool aid. Bourn is gone after 2012. He’s gonna get something similar to the seven year 142 million contract afforded to Carl Crawford.
REALLY?!?!?! You honestly think that Michael Bourn, he of the 13 career HR, is going to get a similar contract to Crawford, who hit 19 in just his contract year?
I don’t know about drinking kool aid, but whatever you are drinking must be a helluva lot stronger.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
11:06 am
Coach
Michael Bourn will not sniff 100 mil… I think he’ll get 5 or 6 years around 12 to 15 mil a season. But all this depends on his 2012 season.
Arkansas Transplant
January 3rd, 2012
11:06 am
I read somewhere that Keppinger is looking to sign somewhere where he can play on a daily basis. Otherwise he would be a great addition to our bench, but I just don’t think he’s wanting to fill a bench role.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
11:08 am
Keppinger is kinda like Theriot, defense isnt good at SS.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:10 am
DAP, I think it’s a stretch to see Bourn re-signed here. I don’t think the Braves will overpay for him, even if they do have $40 million to spend next offseason.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
11:11 am
Many many on here rip Liberty Media despite that the Braves payroll is right around 90m give or take a couple of mil. Which would you rather have Liberty Media or Peter Angelos as the Braves owner? There is a lot of talk about how horrible LM is as the Braves owner. I would rather have them than PA. He doesn’t allow his baseball people to do their job. He is a wanna be Steinbrenner/Ted Turner. Yanks and Braves did not turn around until the respective owners turned the baseball decisions over to their baseball people.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:11 am
little better hitter than Theriot, but about the same defensively which I think makes it a bit unlikely that the Braves would sign either
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
11:11 am
Efrim
Agreed, I think the most the Braves would want to pay would be around 10 mil a season.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:13 am
We haven’t seen 2012’s performance from Bourn yet, but I think the max deal for him will be in the 70-75 million range for five years. That is the absolute max he gets. I think he ends up getting 60 million for five years. Too rich for the Braves.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:13 am
RC, yes I do because I said SIMILAR. not exactly what Crawford received but still to rich for the Braves. Does Scott Boras ring a bell???? He’s gonna get top dollar for Bourn.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
11:13 am
dap01 – Did I miss something? Is the season starting tomorrow???? Why don’t you wait until the end of ST before you judge Wren as “worse GM of the Year”. We will be competitive for the first game of the season…with or without a “rabbit out of a hat”. Take a breath.
dap01
January 3rd, 2012
11:14 am
All of this would be easier to digest if FW would say, “we are having to cut payroll”. Instead, the Braves say (just like last year) that they are raising payroll.
Booooo to the cost cutting Braves organization.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:15 am
poor baby………..
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
11:15 am
Even tho Boras is the Bourn’s agent, Wren hasnt talked to Bourn about a possible contract yet. Its totally up to Bourn. Always a chance he takes the security of a deal now instead of playing a whole year where anything can happen. I’m sure DOB will get details on this after something has actually happened.
dap01
January 3rd, 2012
11:16 am
raleighbravefan: Yes you did miss something. Re-read the first sentence.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
11:16 am
Why is $60M/5 yrs too rich for the Braves? They should have the payroll coming off the books in 2013 to afford that.
I don’t know that Bourn is worth that. But, I don’t think the Braves couldn’t afford that.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
11:16 am
nolie If he has another year like that he might stay affordable but who wants that from a leadoff hitter?
either way, ill take his defense in center. all i ask is that he keep his OBP in the .340s. if he does that, he will be a fine leadoff hitter.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:16 am
Nope, Theriot’s an infielder. Plays SS and 2B. Keppinger’s a true utility player. Plays SS, 2B, 3B and the outfield.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
11:17 am
Ray @11:11 – Agree completely….We could do a LOT worse if team is sold. We were spoiled by the good Ted Turner (after he hired Bobby Cox as GM)…but Ted has left the building…and like Elvis, he isn’t coming back.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:17 am
If the Braves end up keeping Jurrjens, Prado, EOF and Chipper gets that 123 game mark and wants to play in 2013 – that $40 million evaporates to like $15 million pretty quickly.
Of course, I give it a 1% chance of all that happening based on the pitching depth we have for starters and relievers.
DawgDad
January 3rd, 2012
11:18 am
The Braves roster right now is a mess and it doesn’t figure to be sorted out for any kind of run in 2012. Chipper and Uggla are vastly overpaid defensive liabilities providing terribly inconsistent offensive support (Uggla by nature, Jones by virtue of not playing), there is no shortstop, the catcher is beat up physically, the outfield is sorely lacking of power and production, and the starting pitching is either recovering from injury/surgery or trying to figure out how to get out of the fifth inning. With the competition in the East on the upswing the Braves could be facing more months akin to September 2011.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:18 am
Boras will get more than five years and 60 million for Bourn, and you can bet on it.
tmc
January 3rd, 2012
11:18 am
DON’T DEAL PRADO!
don’t do it.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
11:19 am
efrim I think it’s a stretch to see Bourn re-signed here. I don’t think the Braves will overpay for him, even if they do have $40 million to spend next offseason.
so, who are they going to overpay? victorino? upton? maybe angel pagan? or will they overpay in prospects for austin jackson or chris young?
no CFer for 2013, and we will have to get one. with some $$$ available, where else are we going to spend it?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:19 am
ih he gets that OBP back up in the 340-350 range he will bring more than the Braves will be willing to pay I bet
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
11:19 am
Coach
I was comparing them on defense at Shortstop. I still think Wilson Betemit would be the best fit from the free agent market.
RC
January 3rd, 2012
11:21 am
RC, yes I do because I said SIMILAR. not exactly what Crawford received but still to rich for the Braves. Does Scott Boras ring a bell???? He’s gonna get top dollar for Bourn.
I’ve no doubt that Boras will get top dollar for Bourn, and I agree that it’s really unlikely that the Braves will be the team to pay that top dollar. However, I do disagree that his contract will be “similar” to Crawford’s, which was for 7-years and $142 million. I think that even at the most aggressive prediction it’s unlikely that Bourn tops 5-years, $85 million. A $60 million difference is not what I would call “similar”.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:22 am
I don’t know that Bourn is worth that. But, I don’t think the Braves couldn’t afford that.
I think what people are forgetting is that Wren isn’t going to go into next offseason thinking we have $40 million to spend on contracts. They have four first year arbitration eligible players for 2013 in Heyward, Hanson, Venters and Medlen(not counting C-Mart). In 2014, Freeman, Beachy, and Kimbrel will then be arb. eligble for the first time. Long term contract extensions for a guy like McCann will come into play and if Heyward/Freeman progress, Wren may want to lock them up. So I don’t believe Wren will blow all of the dollars on free agents. Arbitration raises will have to be paid for.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:22 am
the Braves are not free agent addicts and they seldom spend lavishly even if they can afford to.
I think they will continue to loo for some kinda deal for a young CFer.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
11:22 am
For folks complaining about payroll, it seems that the Braves got their run going in ‘91 with a very cheap team, picked up some payroll to finally win the WS, and then declined back to mid market figures. — abwright
I can only assume you weren’t following the Braves in the ’90s. Beginning in ‘93 and for the next decade, the Braves consistently ranked among the top five major league payrolls and were often in the top three. In ‘94 they had the highest payroll in the majors, about $49 million (the Yankees were second at $46 mill).
The Braves had a payroll of $84 million in 2000, only about $5 mill below last year’s (and probably this year’s) payroll. The Yankees ($93 mill) and Dodgers ($88 mill) were the only teams with higher payrolls in 2000. The Braves slipped to seventh in payroll by 2002 at approx $93 mill, still higher than their payroll would be nearly a decade later.
The Braves jumped back up to third in payroll in 2003 at $106 million, trailing only the New York teams, the Yankees ($153 mill) and Mets ($117 mill). Atlanta’s 2.4 million home attendance that year was about 1 million below the Yankees’ attendance, even as the Braves were winning the 12th of their 14 consecutive division titles.
It was the next year, 2004, when the Braves began to slash payroll, cutting more than $15 million in one year. Ted Turner, their former sugar daddy of an owner, was out of the picture and the Braves under Time Warner ownership went a different direction, looking to remain competitive but also make a profit, or certainly at least not lose money. Attendance had slipped to 2.4 mill in ‘03, which ranked 12th in the majors at a time when the Braves were still winning division titles every year and playing in a nice ballpark that was only seven years old. The Braves had the third-highest payroll in baseball ($103 mill) and a perennial division-title winner, yet ranked 12th in attendance.
The payroll dropped to $90 million in ‘04 and $86 mill in ‘05, and has hovered around that area ever since — about 40 percent of what the Yankees have been spending annually for the past eight years. The Yankees have had payrolls of around $200 million going back to 2004. Liberty Media has owned the Braves since 2007, and Braves CEO Terry McGuirk says they leave it up to him to run the business and set a payroll.
The Braves choose not to disclose what their payroll is and speak only in broad terms of the direction their payroll is headed. They said they expected it to be the same or slightly higher in ‘12 than it was in ‘11, but what exactly was it in ‘11? Depending upon accounting methods and when the figure was calculated — Opening Day, midseason, end of season, overall expenditures — the Braves payroll in ‘11 was anywhere from the $87 mill that Baseball Reference lists to the approx $89 mill that some others have calculated.
Baseball Reference ranked the Braves 15th in payroll and 14th in home attendance at 2.37 million. Six teams had payrolls in excess of $125 million in 2011, and five of those six teams drew more than 3 million in home attendance.
In the Braves’ first four seasons at Turner Field 1997-2000, they ranked in the top 20 percent in baseball in both attendance and payroll, drawing more than 3 million fans annually. But that balance shifted in 2001, when attendance began to slide. It took a few more years before team officials and/or ownership clearly — at least it seems that way to me — made a decision to get that balance back by reducing payroll commensurate with the decline in attendance.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
11:24 am
dap01 – Oh, I didn’t miss the first sentence…but you missed where I said we didn’t need a magic rabbit to be competitive this year. Most knowledgeble, unbiased analysts, managers, players, owners, etc consider Wren a very good to excellent GM.
September not withstanding, we have a very good core of players, and one of the top 2-3 pitching staffs in MLB top to bottom…maybe the best bullpen. Why would Wren make a dumb move (as called for by many fans) just to make a move. Most of the suggested moves don’t improve this team long term…in fact, many make no sense at all. When the right opportunity comes along, he will act (within the restraints he is required to meet).
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:25 am
where else are we going to spend it?
Maybe he makes a trade for a CF. Who knows? You heard from DOB that they were looking for a CF prospect who could potentially fill in for CF when Bourn leaves……(even though I wouldn’t think in those terms). Plenty of time to figure it out. Just because the team has money doesn’t mean they HAVE to overpay SOMEONE.
JRW
January 3rd, 2012
11:25 am
VaBravesFan – If that is the Nats lineup next year with Strasburg, Gonalez, Hernandez and Lannan pitching, that will be a pretty formidable team.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:27 am
the Braves are not free agent addicts and they seldom spend lavishly even if they can afford to.
Exactly. Never been big on it. Not saying they won’t grab one free agent. But it’s certainly possible that they make a trade for a guy making some money like they did for Vazquez after the 2008 season.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:28 am
Boras will get six to seven years and anywhere from 12 to 14 million per season. Add it up anyway you want, Bourn is gone.
Arkansas Transplant
January 3rd, 2012
11:28 am
DAP, that’s why I wouldn’t be against a trade with Detroit for Austin Jackson.. at least that way we won’t have to be thinking about CF for the forseeable future plus netting us a very good return. And then if we want to look at adding Seth Smith and prospects, it could only deepen our pool of players. I think if we made those 2 moves it would definitely set this club up for a very long and bright future.
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
11:30 am
Well I’m out folks, have a good day.
PMC
January 3rd, 2012
11:33 am
I ultimately don’t care about payroll. I care about whether or not I believe the team is putting a team that can win on the field.
I don’t care if they build through the draft and or the minors or with trades or procuring players.
Just don’t tell me that you feel they can win when you’re trying to procure no named corner outfielders because they are only owed about 3 million dollars next year.
You can’t expect people to buy into a team when so much of the lineup is dependant on a player who was in his prime in 1999.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
11:35 am
DOB … thanks for the actual numbers on payroll. But, that’s essentially what I was saying.
Cheap team in the early 90’s (90-93), expensive team for about a decade (94-04, including 95 WS and 96&99 WS appearances), back to mid market numbers up to the present (05-12).
Obviously, if you want to drill back to the 70s, Braves had been a cheap team leading up to the 91 break-out.
And yes, I followed the team a lot closer from about 78-86 then I did from 87-00. Poverty sucks.
PMC
January 3rd, 2012
11:36 am
I think Wren has been excellent in navigating the environment and keeping the Braves mostly competitive….
But they CANNOT win a championship as constructed. Not without massive luck and a lot of help.
This team is not capable of hitting with the best teams.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
11:36 am
dawgdad The Braves roster right now is a mess
thats a little strong isnt it?
i mean, we have the best hitting catcher in baseball. a ROY runner up at first, one of the few legit 30 HR threats in baseball at 2nd, the majors leading basestealer and defender in center, and loads of potential in RF. we have the best bullpen in baseball, and a young talented rotation that is 7 or 8 pitchers deep.
throw in a HOF 3rd baseman that is still better than league average, a .300 hitting, .800 OPS LFer, and a rookie SS coming off a great minor league year, and we have a good team.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
11:37 am
PMC – I DO believe they can..and will…win. No one can guarantee a WS, but I fully expect them to be competitive.
If I were as bitter and negative and disappointed about a team as some of you, I would find a team that I feel good about supporting. It’s called riding the bandwagon.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
11:37 am
PMC I agree completely. I have said a number of times, the payroll is not our issue. I don’t care what they do providing they don’t slash down to the Pirates level. IF it was simply payroll the Yankees and Phils, Mets and Redsox would be going back and forth every year in the WS. Does a high payroll help, of course it does. Does it guarantee anything, absolutely not.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
11:39 am
DAP – Don’t you know you aren’t supposed to say good things here. Optimism is forbidden.
space monkey
January 3rd, 2012
11:46 am
Why on Earth are we dead set toward trading Prado for Seth Smith. Prado is twice the player that Seth Smith is. He’s a better hitter and more versatile, what a stupid trade.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:46 am
January 3, 2012
Future Shock
Miami Marlins Top 11 Prospects
by Kevin Goldstein
System In 20 Words Or Less: The system finds some depth and star power in Yelich, but there is still an overall lack of elite-level talent.
Five-Star Prospects
1. Christian Yelich, OF
Four-Star Prospects
2. Jose Fernandez, RHP
Three-Star Prospects
3. Marcell Ozuna, OF
4. J.T. Realmuto, C
5. Chad James, LHP
6. Matt Dominguez, 3B
7. Jesus Solorzano, OF
8. Jose Ceda, RHP
9. Jose Urena, RHP
10. Rob Rasmussen, LHP
11. Noah Perio, 2B
Awful system.
Lew
January 3rd, 2012
11:48 am
raleighbraves – Optimism? Don’t you mean Blind Homerism?
Nice Work, If You Can Get It!
January 3rd, 2012
11:49 am
Could anyone imagine the horror of Chipper Jones and exercising an option for millions in 2013?
The stuff nightmares are made of!
Boobie Cox
January 3rd, 2012
11:50 am
I picked mini me fredi to lead us to 3rd and 4th place finishes for 3 or 4 more years. We will miss the playoffs again next year. I’m sure glad the cameras dont catch me picking my boogers anymore. Now turn off that rap music and give me some tissue.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:50 am
That’s probably unfair. The Marlins don’t have an awful system, but it is probably back third.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
11:51 am
Could anyone imagine the horror of Chipper Jones and exercising an option for millions in 2013?
I think he gets there. Not sure if he’ll want to play in 2013 at age 41, though. But I think he gets to 123 games played this year.
Don
January 3rd, 2012
11:52 am
Odds are at least reasonable that Prado will have a better year next season than Smith. In 2010, Prodo was pehaps the best hitter the Braves had – good BA, good OBA, and great clutch hitter.
Odds are that he will return to form in 2012 after getting past his 2011 injury. There is a signigicat progability that the Braves are going to make a huge mistake and trade him for a player who will not be nearly as productive as Prado.
Nice Work, If You Can Get It!
January 3rd, 2012
11:55 am
Chipper’s Option
# 2013 option guaranteed at $9M with:
* 123 games in 2012, or
* average of 127 games in 2011-12
# 2013 option price increases by $1M each for:
* 128, 133, 138, 140 games in 2012, or
* averages of 132, 137, 138, 140 games in 2011-12
# annual performance bonuses: $0.75M each for 135, 140 games
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
11:56 am
space monkey Why on Earth are we dead set toward trading Prado for Seth Smith
if we were dead set on it, i think it would have happened.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
12:00 pm
A few random thoughts….
I was wondering just the other day about what DOB’s topic would be for the new blog. I mean, NOTHING is happening involving the Braves. Good job, DOB, with coming up with something worth reading despite having zero material to work with.
Mr. Porter needs Spring Training to get here ASAP. He needs his career and the boys to cushion this horrible blow. God bless him and his family.
Great Prince reference(s). Finally, music I can relate to.
One suggestion for the added lyrics at the bottom of the blog. Include a Youtube link of the song below the lyrics for those of us that have no idea about the song. I’ve never understood including song lyrics in the first place but if there was a link to hear the song, would make more sense. Just a suggestion….
Fielder to Washington would be huge (literally) for the Nats. Find a taker for LaRoche and add another arm in the system and they should be done shopping.
Braves? I imagine Betemit is not a guy they want ’cause of his horrible defense at 3B. Same goes with Theriot at SS. We’ll get our SS in March, people. It’s the LF we should be anticipating.
I’m excited to see Bourn over a full season. I do like the “athletic” concept the Braves are moving towards. Big time. Add athletes that can play defense and we’ll be fine.
Don
January 3rd, 2012
12:01 pm
Has baseball changed significantly, and Pitching is no longer very important??? Apparently it has – for no one seems to be worried about the Starting Pitching for the Braves. AFTER ALL – Only FOUR of their five Starters are coming off injuries. And everyone knows that an injured pitcher always comes back and is great once again. The Braves do have a wealth of ADDITIONAL young Piitching talent — AND OF COURSE, the fact that – of all the large number of Starting Pitchers that the Braves have had in the 6 or 7 years since Leo left as the Pitching Coach, almost every one of them has become injured. – So why would anyone think that these young pitchers coming on will be injured?????
richbrave
January 3rd, 2012
12:05 pm
I see FRANK’s hangin’ tuff on his ideas regarding beneficial trades for the BRAVES. Good on ye WREN.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:08 pm
Just added this last graph to my previous comment on payroll: In the Braves’ first four seasons at Turner Field 1997-2000, they ranked in the top 20 percent in baseball in both attendance and payroll, drawing more than 3 million fans annually. But that balance shifted in 2001, when attendance began to slide. It took a few more years before team officials and/or ownership clearly — at least it seems that way to me — made a decision to get that balance back by reducing payroll commensurate with the decline in attendance.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
12:08 pm
JimBowdenESPNxmJIM BOWDEN
The best free agents left on the market: 1. Fielder 1B 2. Cespedes CF 3. Madson CL 4. Oswalt 5. Kuroda 6. Jackson 7. Pena 1B 8. Cordero
Been that order of free agents for way too long. Need a few more pieces of wood to fuel that Hot Stove season fire.
DogsBrekky
January 3rd, 2012
12:08 pm
I will take Prado over Seth anyday and twice on Tuesday, being today is Tuesday, let’s keep Marteeeen
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
12:10 pm
“Has baseball changed significantly, and Pitching is no longer very important???
Phils had the best starting rotation in baseball last year and didn’t get past the first round. IT takes offense and situational hitting as well. Something the Braves didn’t seem to do very well last year.
As for the number of arm problems with the Braves pitching staff over the last few years, yeah, kinda freaky huh?
richbrave
January 3rd, 2012
12:13 pm
So what do i make of Mike BOURN and Jair JURRJENS to the O’s for Adam JONES and one of their better LHSP minor’s prospects, Jake PETTIT? Another rumor?
Lemke's Knuckler
January 3rd, 2012
12:13 pm
“As for the number of arm problems with the Braves pitching staff over the last few years, yeah, kinda freaky huh?”
I predict a comment from Don shortly…
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
12:15 pm
“It took a few more years before team officials … made a decision to get that balance back by reducing payroll commensurate with the decline in attendance.”
We’ve already had Don chime in with his doom and gloom on the Braves pitching. Now, cue the folks who want to complain about attendance!
BTW … I’m assuming that TV revenues have also declined (the final end of the TNT monopoly on national day-to-day TV broadcast) for the Braves in addition to attendance. Better raise those ticket prices!
Mets Fever :: Braves not so interested in Theriot | TechRetriever
January 3rd, 2012
12:16 pm
[...] I’m going to say the Braves’ interest in Theriot was overstated, based on what I’ve gathered in the past few days. I’ll stop short of saying it was inaccurate, since it’s no fun explaining why a team suddenly makes a move that you (meaning me) had just said or indicated they would not make. Source ajc.com [...]
richbrave
January 3rd, 2012
12:16 pm
“……….But that balance shifted in 2001, when attendance began to slide. It took a few more years before team officials and/or ownership clearly — at least it seems that way to me — made a decision to get that balance back by reducing payroll commensurate with the decline in attendance………..” DOB
I’m sure you’re correct, but won’t that ‘chicken or egg’ approach take us all the way to PITTSBURGH?
Lemke's Knuckler
January 3rd, 2012
12:17 pm
“I’m sure you’re correct, but won’t that ‘chicken or egg’ approach take us all the way to PITTSBURGH?”
Depends on who blinks first.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:18 pm
One suggestion for the added lyrics at the bottom of the blog. Include a Youtube link of the song below the lyrics for those of us that have no idea about the song. I’ve never understood including song lyrics in the first place but if there was a link to hear the song, would make more sense. Just a suggestion…. — TommyP
There’s a link to a recording or video of the song BEFORE the lyrics, in the paragraph where I introduce the song. Has been for quite a while now, Tommy. For years, in fact. Done that way so you could, theoretically, hit the link, play the song and follow the lyrics. Makes more sense than putting the link to the song AFTER the lyrics, don’t ya think? Of course, you’d have to have the blog up on a separate screen after clicking the song link in order to follow along on the lyrics. But that’s not difficult if a person wants to have the lyrics while listening to the tune.
If I did it the way you suggested, fewer people are going to see the link because a lot of folks have no interest in reading the song lyrics.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
12:18 pm
“As for the number of arm problems with the Braves pitching staff over the last few years, yeah, kinda freaky huh?”
Has any rotation made it through the full MLB season without at least one pitcher having an arm problem? In the history of baseball?
I’m surprised that pitchers aren’t going ahead and getting TJ surgery before they start a professional career, rather than waiting until the career is underway.
You can tell a scribe by the callus on his index finger and thumb. You can tell a pitcher by the scar on his pitching elbow.
richbrave
January 3rd, 2012
12:19 pm
DAVE:
Am I wrong is assuming that during a poor economy, an improved product on the field will have to come before significant attendance increases?
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
12:20 pm
richbrave
Not even a rumor. Just an earlier discussion here. The Adam Jones and JJ part have been written about by the media, but nothing about Bourn.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
12:25 pm
“… won’t that ‘chicken or egg’ approach take us all the way to PITTSBURGH?”
If revenues are strongly correlated to attendance, then
a. a low attendance team will become a low payroll team or
b. a team will have to do something to boost attendance.
I’m actually amazed that Montreal and Florida stayed in business as long as they did (obviously Montreal moved to Washington and Florida moved to a new stadium in Miami).
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:27 pm
richbrave: I can’t answer that, but the Braves had a perennial division winner longer than any other city in baseball history, and attendance declined sharply in the last third of that run, presumably because fans got tired of merely seeing a team win 90-plus games and the division title every year with only occasional pennants. My guess is that sounds mighty nice about now, no?
Braves interested in Cody Ross? (Yahoo! Sports) | Local Philadelphia News Aggregator
January 3rd, 2012
12:27 pm
[...] thе Atlanta Braves hаνе ѕοmе interest іn Ross bυt “wουld want thе price tο keep coming down.” Thе word frοm thе AJC іѕ thаt Ross “wаntѕ [...]
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
12:30 pm
Oh wow, just turned the blog on and saw we were already on page 5, so I figured something might be going down. Nope. Same old sh**, new day. Carry on ……
Lemke's Knuckler
January 3rd, 2012
12:30 pm
“Am I wrong is assuming that during a poor economy, an improved product on the field will have to come before significant attendance increases?”
I think the problem is more complex than that. The people making the financial decisions likely aren’t willing to invest another $20mm, in the hope that the improved product will increase attendance. The problem is, by the time an investment like that would pay off (which I think it would, but it might take a few seasons), the person(s) responsible for making those decisions would be fired for the short-term losses accrued in the meantime. So in a down economy, you have to keep in mind that the people making those decisions are not willing to take on the risk associated much for the same reasons that we are less likely to buy tickets. It’s a different scale, but similar concept.
BravoMan
January 3rd, 2012
12:32 pm
From mlbtraderumors-
“The Orioles are fairly confident they will add another outfielder, though that wouldn’t necessarily portend an Adam Jones trade. The Orioles were not overly intrigued by the Braves’ offer of Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado, and a minor league pitcher. Connolly doesn’t see Jurrjens as a centerpiece for a Jones trade. Instead, the Orioles are intrigued by Tommy Hanson.”
lol
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
12:33 pm
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-insider-closer-look-at-adam-jones-and-the-trade-dilemma-20120103,0,4805147.story
Dan Connelly writes for the Baltimore Sun….
But the Orioles weren’t overly intrigued by that package and reportedly wanted two of the Braves’ top pitching prospects in addition to Prado and Jurrjens, and the Braves understandably balked. Not sure if that is 100 percent true, but something made those talks lose traction.
Here’s what I know: The Orioles want a frontline starter for Jones. Or someone with the substantial upside to be a frontline starter. A name that intrigues the Orioles – heck, that intrigues everyone in baseball – is the Braves’ 25-year-old right-hander Tommy Hanson.
He dealt with some shoulder/back problems last year but is one of the best young pitchers in the game. That’s also the reason the Braves likely wouldn’t move him, for Jones or likely anyone else. If Hanson is obtainable, though, so is Jones. Regardless, Atlanta has plenty of good young pitching, so they remain an obvious trade partner. But I’d be surprised if Jurrjens was the centerpiece.
Right. Tommy Hanson for Adam Jones. Not to mention it’s really 4 years of Tommy Hanson for 2 years of Adam Jones. I’m sorry, but the O’s would have to add Manny Machado and Jonathan Schoop for me to even consider it based on what starters with 4 years of control have netted this year. And Hanson isn’t going anywhere based on the shoulder injury.
Charles
January 3rd, 2012
12:35 pm
How will Seth Smith do in ATL when away from the confines of Coors Field where by far his best numbers have been generated? I agree that the trade possibilities don’t really help the Braves and I am very concerned Pastornicky will be a defensive disaster (9 errors in 27 games at AAA vs 12 errors by Gonzo for 149 games). So we need to keep Prado as he is our most flexible infielder. If we have to deal, deal Jurgens, but it might be better to wait until the summer to see how the rest of the rotation shakes out and that’s about the time his knee starts to buckle, as it has for the prior years.
DOB, Theriot may not be much defensively, but have you compared him to Pastornicky’s minor league fielding history? In my view, the most pressing need now is a capable shortstop if Tyler can’t catch the ball and/or fails to hit and run as advertised. I think the Braves can make offensive improvements with better years from Prado, Heyward and McCann, not with an outfielder who has lived off the Coors Field launching pad.
Lemke's Knuckler
January 3rd, 2012
12:35 pm
And I don’t think Atlanta is one of those markets where you can easily justify that spending another $20mm on payroll would result in a net increase in profits. If the transit were better, maybe. But that’s a different argument.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
DOB, very good point. I have always had the mindset, I would rather make it and lose than not make the playoffs at all. If you make it, you always have a chance,ALWAYS. Many on here are concerned about the Nat’s and the Marlins passing the Braves. You make it enough times to the playoffs, sooner or later you will pull out a WS championship.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
12:37 pm
And I don’t believe Jurrjens and Prado make sense for Jones because they should be getting 0-3 players for Jones. At least 2-3 players with lots of control. Prado and Jurrjens don’t fit that description.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
12:38 pm
I’ve never seen the link before but that shows you how quickly I pass the lyrics by…
I clicked on it and…..well, it proves anyone can make money singing. I would’ve thought that was a joke if I didn’t hear you raving about the guy so much. But….obviously he has his fans. I know this will offend some so I’ll just leave it at that.
Lee in S GA
January 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
Don, do you ever talk about anything except about Braves pitching injuries! ….Anything…Anything at all.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
I don’t see the O’s wanting a piece in a trade who has an existing shoulder problem and funky, mechanically flawed delivery, past results be damned!
TaylorsBravo
January 3rd, 2012
12:39 pm
I don’t get this–the Braves need a right-handed power bat, and they are thinking of giving up Prado (a popular right-handed hitter) for a left-handed hitter who has very similar stats? They are already have an over-balance of left-handed hitting. This makes no sense at all.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
12:40 pm
That Orioles columnist doesn’t seem to deal well in reality.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
12:41 pm
abwright If revenues are strongly correlated to attendance, then
a. a low attendance team will become a low payroll team or
b. a team will have to do something to boost attendance.
y’all do realize that the braves dont really have a problem with attendance, right? they also dont really have a problem with payroll.
neither is as high as it could be, but both are alot better than what many franchises have.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
12:42 pm
Ben_DuronioBen Duronio
It wouldn’t be outlandish to trade Hanson instead of Jurrjens. Would make 2012 team worse though, unless MLB talent is acquired for Tommy.
I would never do Hanson for Jones though.
Again, comments made by people who think Julio Teheran and Randall Delgado walk on water. Beachy and Minor too.
BravePack
January 3rd, 2012
12:42 pm
DOB
Someone from last night asked a question about the Braves getting new unis this year. I thought you mentioned it was just another jersey to add to the 4 already. Can you please confirm that or are the Braves getting new jerseys?
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:42 pm
Yeah, TommyP, he’s got one or two fans.
Trust me, nothing you could say about the great Mr. Waits is going to offend any of his hardcore fans. He’s beyond that in our view. Sort of like those who criticize Dylan’s voice and say they “don’t get” the appeal. That’s fine — they don’t get it. No worries. Different tastes. Some see true musical genius, others just see some hobo-looking guy with boozy, gravelly voice (Waits).
Juan
January 3rd, 2012
12:44 pm
DOB: with the tragedy of Bubba Wife i just want to add also the Pass off Jim Huber, cnn sport also i think he work sometime with the AJC
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:45 pm
Lemke’s Knuckler: Well said at 12:30 and 12:35.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
12:46 pm
No doubt he has fans.
And your summary was perfect with Dylan and not getting it. That’s how music is, though. Different people hear different things. Pretty weird, honestly.
On another note, has Omar Vizquel ever been discussed by the Braves? And am I right in assuming that mid-March or later is when we get that SS?
D man
January 3rd, 2012
12:48 pm
This trade makes no sense. Prado is our best offensive player and JJ is our best young pitcher. Are we trying to become Kansas City???
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
BravePack: Braves are getting an alternate uniform. They’re being secretive about it, expected to announce soon. Not sure if it’s to be worn any particular days, but was told late last season it’d be an alternate uniform. Hopefully it’s the off-white throwback uni with the Indian logo that they wore last year at Dodger Stadium. That was a great look.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
12:51 pm
Omar Vizquel’s not considered an option for the utility infield/backup shortstop job the Braves are trying to fill. Too old. With Vizquel, you’d have days where the left side of your infield would be 40 and 45. That ain’t happening.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
We may be getting to the point of the problem this winter. Where Wren is talking about JJ, many teams may be wanting TH instead. And at that point I am sure Wren is hanging up the phone. It does take a sane person on the other end to pull off a solid trade.
Bart
January 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
So the smaller the attendence, the smaller the payroll and then the smaller the paroll, the smaller the attendence….until you have a team looking for a new owner who is willing to invest and spend in order to try to build a better team and draw more people. However, it seems that Atlanta is similar to where I am (Central Fl)in that the local fans become bored or complacent with the product no matter what it is. Other wise how can you explain the having of good teams that actually make the playoffs only to not even sell the playoff games out. I kind of get it down here. Our population is mostly from people from all different areas but mainly the Northeast US. So when the Yankees, Phillies and Red Sox come to Tampa the attendance is good. Outside that??? …just so so at best. But what about The Atl? After SO many ugly years in the 70’s and 80’s, you’d think that the population would very excited about a good, competitive product. …enough bable from me.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
12:52 pm
DOB Different tastes. Some see true musical genius, others see some hobo-looking guy with boozy, gravelly voice
same difference? :- )
Lemke's Knuckler
January 3rd, 2012
12:54 pm
With all these Orioles rumors, you guys remind me of my kids. Example.
My son, who is 7, knows all he has to do is say something to his younger sister, who is 5, to get her going. He merely says something like “your doll doesn’t have blond hair” knowing full well it’s not true. And she knows its not true either, but it doesn’t matter, because it always ends up with her crying and whining about how her brother told her, “blah blah blah.”
That’s exactly what Dan Connelly with the Baltimore Sun is doing to a good portion of the fans on this blog.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
lemke’s knuckler, your 7 year old sounds like a real meanie head.
Bigwheel
January 3rd, 2012
12:58 pm
I blame two things wrong with attendance :
1- The organization turning the ‘park in to looney-tunes-land, which I think they have righted the ship.
2 – The awful location, and lack of SAFE public transit.
Lemke's Knuckler
January 3rd, 2012
1:02 pm
“lemke’s knuckler, your 7 year old sounds like a real meanie head.”
He’s a good kid. And he’s sweet as can be to my other daughter who is 2. For some reason, just loves to the torture the other one. From what I hear, this is pretty standard stuff.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
1:02 pm
DOB Different tastes. Some see true musical genius, others see some hobo-looking guy with boozy, gravelly voice
same difference? :- ) — DAP
Actually, yes. Good point.
Gary O
January 3rd, 2012
1:02 pm
As bad as the Braves have struggled against Washington, I hope Fielder takes his talent elsewhere.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
bigwheel, 1- The organization turning the ‘park in to looney-tunes-land, which I think they have righted the ship.
2 – The awful location, and lack of SAFE public transit.
i agree with #2, but i think you are wrong on #1. i think those attractions are actually good for turner field, and make it one of the more underrated MLB parks. i assume you really mean tooner field, which is small and doesnt take up that much space. im not sure why folks have a problem with that. but sky field is great, all the little things under the tunnels, games and what not are really nice to have, and the food and stuff is pretty good too.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
1:04 pm
Dan Connelly writes for the Baltimore Sun….
Must be an aspiring fiction writer, look out Michael
Done
January 3rd, 2012
1:05 pm
The Braves will never compete again. They are all about cheap and getting rid of payroll.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
1:06 pm
Bigwheel: I disagree with both of your assertions.
I’ve never heard one Braves fan say they won’t go to Turner because of the kids’ entertainment.
And the location is the same as the 3+ million days.
Attendance is down for many reasons. A) Economy (B) Lower payroll. (C) A product lacking in excitement.
The latter has been a problem for awhile now. The Braves just don’t have a guy that excites the masses. Adding Bourn will pep things up over a full 162 game schedule. But more is needed.
Art
January 3rd, 2012
1:06 pm
I noticed on mlbtr that the Orioles want Hanson to be able to get Adam Jones. I would rather do that than Jurrgens. Seems there are questions on Hanson and the O’s are interested in Hanson.
DawgDad
January 3rd, 2012
1:08 pm
“September not withstanding”
Problem is, September IS standing. I have unused playoff tickets that PROVE it is standing.
The Braves weren’t mediocre in September, they were epically horrible. As of now they have what could be the worst defensive infield in baseball, nothing but question marks in the starting rotation, more questions in the outfield and behind the plate (McCann’s health has not been established), and NO proven shortstop. The rest of the Division (Mets aside) is already better or opening the checkbook to get better.
For this team to compete for a wild card (1) the starting pitching must materialize, (2) they have to plug holes at short and in left field with difference-makers, (3) key players must stay healthy, and (4) the Marlins and Nats must continue to struggle. None of these things are very likely in 2012. Remember, they couldn’t win with Hudson, Beachy, and Minor in September 2011. Will Hansen come back strong? Will JJ be here and in good health? Can any of the kids break in and get past the fifth inning consistently? Lots of ifs, far too many.
Gary O
January 3rd, 2012
1:08 pm
Despite the Yankees constant $200+ mil payroll, they have only won 1 WS since 2001. Therefore, even if the Braves increased payroll to $110 mil, there is no guarantee that they would win anything.
Also, increasing payroll does not mean an increase in attendance. The Hawks have been willing to spend money the last 2 years (top 10 payroll), but the attendance is still middle of the pack, and the results on the court are not what they should be.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
1:09 pm
@Done, Really? Never compete again. Are you willing to back that one up?
Bigwheel
January 3rd, 2012
1:09 pm
DAP: I understand what you mean, it’s an experience. Really good for small kids and everything. I just didn’t like how it was integrated in to the game itself. For example, I think we brought an organist back a couple of years ago which added true originality to the game, I thought.. Before that, It was downright miserable listening to the sound affects integrated. It was like you said, TOONER FIELD.
Bigwheel
January 3rd, 2012
1:14 pm
TommyP : The location deteriorated significantly since the Olympics left, lets be real here. There is nothing around the stadium that is appealing except the sight of law enforcement, the smell of ball park food and beer.
b
January 3rd, 2012
1:18 pm
I’m sick of the Prado rumors.
Oh boy, as usual going after smith because of lower contract. Makes me sick.
Again, I’ll ask, Dave what do the braves have against Prado and Constanza?
jim
January 3rd, 2012
1:19 pm
Don,
The Braves pitchers who suffered arm injuries or saw their careers shortened by arm problems during the Leo era included:
Mike Stanton, Steve Avery, Pedro Borbon Jr., Juan Berrenguer, Mark Wohlers, John Smoltz, (the kid who gave up the grand-slam single to Robin Ventura in ‘99), and several others
The good health of Maddux and Glavine distorts a more typical picture of injury rate to pitchers (particularly young pitchers)
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
1:20 pm
Therefore, even if the Braves increased payroll to $110 mil, there is no guarantee that they would win anything.
Agreed. However, every little bit helps.
My Oblique is Killin' Me!
January 3rd, 2012
1:24 pm
Perhaps Dan Connelly’s notes are written on the back of a cocktail napkin he brought back from a night of drinking with the clubhouse guy.
I can just hear the clubhouse guy saying, “ya know….. we’re really intrigued by that Hanson kid in Atlanta. He looks like he’s throwing darts when he pitches. His mechanics are terrible. And on top of it all, he has shoulder problems and they can’t quite figure out what is causing the problems. We need to get that guy!”
Agreeing with many others here. Connelly must be bored and just stirring the pot.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
1:25 pm
Art, you would trade Tommy Hanson for a guy who probably won’t put up all that much better stats in ‘12 than Cody Ross? And you don’t have to trade a thing for him.
Travis
January 3rd, 2012
1:29 pm
The Braves are in a precarious position right now with the fans. After the September collapse and lack of activity to improve the team beyond a hitting coach and salary dump trade attendance might decline unless some excitement is generated out of spring training. Heyward and Freeman were solid rookies and gave the fans something to cheer about. Kimbrel was an added bonus. That spark isn’t there right now. The only solid superstar on the team over the last several years was Chipper. Gonna be hard to replace that. We’ll see.
TennesseePaul
January 3rd, 2012
1:29 pm
Some see true musical genius, others just see some hobo-looking guy with boozy, gravelly voice
I’m looking forward to this album. The bits I’ve heard I like. I’m eager to hear the whole album.
I ended up getting 12 albums with gift cards and they are en route to my door right now. Many of the albums were selected by reviewing your top 50. Some were friends recommendations. Many over laps in that full selection which was fortunate. I felt obliged to buy at least one album from each friends list; some of those lists where not as deep as others thus the salvation of the overlaps helping me to avoid explicitly saying “your list sucks” to the friend.
Of the handful of albums I picked up which weren’t on your 2011* list DOB, I’m curious if you have heard them or not, and if so, what you thought.
*not on your 2011 list since some are older, but the questions still stand
Mikal Cronin – Mikal Cronin (2011)
Santogold – Santogold (2008)
Aloe Blacc – Good Things (2010)
tony austin
January 3rd, 2012
1:31 pm
Per Hanson’s numbers last year, he gave up nearly a HR per start. Injuries limited him to only 130 IP, and with that pitching style of his, I think injuries are going to continue to plaque him. I would have no problem moving him for the right package even if his value is not as high as it could be.
Travis
January 3rd, 2012
1:33 pm
Turner field sits in a somewhat rough part of town. Not much to stay in the area for before or after the game. If that whole area were more fun friendly it would make a big difference.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
1:34 pm
tommyp The Braves just don’t have a guy that excites the masses
you know who really got the braves fans excited and coming out to the park? jeff francouer. terrible luck that he didnt work out here.
bigwheel For example, I think we brought an organist back a couple of years ago which added true originality to the game, I thought.
gotcha. yeah the organist is a nice touch. i think the experience at turner field is really nice. before i found my current parking lot, getting to the game was always a hassle, and it stressed me out. so, i can see transit being a problem for some people. if the stadium was on the north side of atlanta instead of farther south, i think it wold make a big difference, but i dont think youll find any braves’ folks regretting the circumstances that brought them to turner field. it worked out really well for the organization.
TennesseePaul
January 3rd, 2012
1:38 pm
even if the Braves increased payroll to $110 mil, there is no guarantee that they would win anything
The Braves did increase payroll to $110M this off-season. Wren has intimated that figure explicitly at a press event Nov 26. I remember it distinctly, Wren had a turkey leg in one hand and kept chomping off mouth fulls as DOB was asking questions. Chewed up bits of turkey were going everywhere.
He said, and I quote: “Oh, (yum), yes payroll is (mmmm, good stuff) going up to $110 million for 2012. And, (mmmm more) with the money we freed up from moving Lowe coupled with the (where’s the dipping sauce? oh, damn that’s good stuff) money we will be saving from dumping Prado and Jurrjens, this team will be a winner in 2012. I must also point out that we don’t see a single free agent player that could make an impact on any team, and specifically this team. I’m outta here. (off-camera: mmm stuffing sandwich, gotta love Thanksgiving left-overs).”
So no moves were made and the net effect is a payroll lower than the 2011 team.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
1:39 pm
I would have no problem moving him for the right package even if his value is not as high as it could be.
I think he is our most talented pitcher, so the right package would have to be a huge haul of prospects. Given his shoulder concerns, I don’t think they have ever realistically entertained it.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
1:41 pm
I think back to the players that were exciting to watch over the years….
Ron Gant. One of my all-time favorites as a Braves player ’cause he played with great passion, power and speed were a part of his game…
Otis Nixon/Deion Sanders: You’ll notice a trend of speed with my all-time favorites. Both could create runs by themselves and Deion had the flash as well. Don’t forget the acrobatic defense that Otis gave us.
McCann: Honestly, I think the fact that you can see he LOVES to play baseball is exciting (plus how many catchers are that good in the first place?).
Smoltz: Not only were the strikeouts exciting but the extreme passion after he punched someone out added to it.
I guess you could say passion has been missing for awhile with the Braves and speed. At least Wren is trying to add the speed element back to the team. I am truly hoping Pastornicky can handle SS this year.
brian
January 3rd, 2012
1:42 pm
I want the Braves to keep Tommy Hanson long term. I still don’t think he has reached his peak and he can be a special pitcher.
That being said, if the Braves do not see Tommy Hanson as a long term Brave, then they should consider dealing him before the injury worries become even more troubling. I agree with the posts above that I would not deal him for Adam Jones (what a waste). I would still go to KC and try to get Alex Gordon, Cain and Escobar, or Cain and Myers (they would not trade him for Jurrjens, how about Hanson).
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
1:46 pm
travis Not much to stay in the area for before or after the game.
gotta figure most ballparks are like this, no? i mean, i dont know from experience, but it seems like anyplace where 40,000 come to is going to have mostly parking around it, right? other than some of the older parks that are sitting right in neighborhoods or whatever, and a place like a ball park where most people arent there doing other things. everything they want is there. people, food, drink, entertainment.
when y’all go to a game, do you really have time to go…i dont know throw darts or something for a little while first, and then when the game and fireworks are over at around 11pm, you feel like going and drinking some more? honestly, i dont think most people take in games that way. i could be totally wrong.
Mark (another one)
January 3rd, 2012
1:47 pm
Wren will spend the money when it makes sense. See Uggla last year. However, when it doesn’t make sense, he doesn’t do a trade just to make news. His job isn’t to sell newspapers in January.
For 2012, the Braves have a regular lineup except a SS. They will use Prado to cover injuries at 3rd or 2nd, and use either Diaz or Hinske to backfill left. They can also use either at 1st in a pinch.
Wren needs a solution at SS and to fill out his bullpen. He would like to add some power (who wouldn’t) and he would like to do some planning for post 2012 (center, 3rd, etc.). That’s not as urgent.
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
1:48 pm
tommyp, uggla really got the fans going this season with his hitting streak. its too bad the end of it didnt cover more home games, honestly. there really was a buzz at the field and there were alot of excited people there.
j
January 3rd, 2012
1:52 pm
Someone call the Nationals and see if we can borrow their paper bags. We are going to be horrible this year. Couldn’t hit last year and sure as hell won’t this year. Even the Nationals will be better than us. F’n A!
Ease
January 3rd, 2012
1:54 pm
Otis Nixon/Deion Sanders: You’ll notice a trend of speed with my all-time favorites….
McCann:…
Felt like this needed re-posting…
Travis
January 3rd, 2012
2:03 pm
I think some of the downtown parks that have been there forever have the local pubs and the like to attract the fan base but those venues are few and far between. Anyone know what the atmosphere around the Cubs and Phillies type parks is like. These are old school ballparks and have quite a history I guess. Fenway might be the same. Attendance seems to be pretty good in the older parks. More of a lifestyle for them.
McFann O O o
January 3rd, 2012
2:05 pm
DawgDad McCann’s health has not been established
I’m sure he’s fine by now…
Ease—
Henry Aaron's Ghost
January 3rd, 2012
2:10 pm
The Braves will battle the Mets for last place. Nats sign Fielder and the Braves are no better just the Mutts. They will not compete. I don’t care HOW many young arms you have. If you cannnot score runs any better than the bums they have now, they ARE TOAST. Period.
Chris from the Rock
January 3rd, 2012
2:14 pm
Bummer, Carlos Silva is off the board. Sox just picked him up. He would have been the perfect replacement for KK in the Mississippi rotation.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:15 pm
Bourn, Jones, McCann, Uggla, Freeman, Prado, Heyward, Pastornicky is a damn good lineup and they will score plenty runs.
Dusty
January 3rd, 2012
2:16 pm
DOB,
Do you post your HOF ballot?
Chris from the Rock
January 3rd, 2012
2:20 pm
DOB doesn’t have a HOF ballot. The AJC doesn’t allow their writers to vote.
Nova Scotia Steve
January 3rd, 2012
2:21 pm
Early predictions with or without Fielder in Washington.
NL East:
Phillies
Nationals
Marlins or Braves
Mets
Braves will hopefully be fighting for that final Wild Card spot – for the simple reason – we struggle with teams in our division.
I DO NOT see this trend changing in 2012. I don’t see how it can realistically.
Fredi's Fu Manchu
January 3rd, 2012
2:22 pm
Seen Omar Vizquel plenty last few yrs in Chicago. Can fill in at SS and 3rd, known as a good teammate, brings energy and most importantly is CHEAP. Not Omar of 15 yrs ago, but sure seems he could fill some needs (esp if Prado is dealt for LF).
RC
January 3rd, 2012
2:22 pm
DOB,
Do you post your HOF ballot?
DOB doesn’t vote for the HOF, since it’s AJC policy that beat writers are not allowed to vote on player awards.
I personally think it’s a really dumb policy, and would like DOB to be allowed to participate in at least the HOF voting. But it’s the decision of his bosses, and nobody can blame him for valuing his job more than his vote.
O.J.
January 3rd, 2012
2:23 pm
This tweet recently, not sure how accurate it is.
Source: #Orioles and #Braves are making progress on an Adam Jones deal. Hearing Jurrjens is involved. This could mean Crisp to Baltimore.
Retweeted by Bill Shanks
Jimmy
January 3rd, 2012
2:23 pm
NSS – the wild card expands in 2013, right? When the Astros go to the AL? I think that is right.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:23 pm
As of right now, the Red Sox #4 and #5 starters are Daniel Bard and Andrew Miller. Silva might actually be of use to that team……only half joking.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:25 pm
Retweeted by Bill Shanks
That’s the part that makes me laugh. Bogus rumor retweeted by the worse of the worst.
And Roch Kubato or whatever his name is for the Orioles should check his sources prior to printing something to cause a stir this morning.
raleighbravefan
January 3rd, 2012
2:26 pm
DawgDad @1:08 – The 2 most obvious solutions are 1) get over it and move on, or 2) support a team that will never disappoint you (doesn’t exist). Many of us feel that September was an aberration that is unlikely to be repeated.
Nova Scotia Steve
January 3rd, 2012
2:28 pm
Whoops.
Jimmy – you are correct – we’re screwed.
Jimmy
January 3rd, 2012
2:33 pm
Dusty – DOB voted for Tom Waits…see page one.
Look, we go into this offseason with a pretty good ball club. I know what happened in September, but prior to the last 30 games or so, we were winning despite:
-Heyward not hitting
-McCann slumping
-horrible RISP average
-Prado hurt
-little production from SS
-not much production from the bench.
I just feel that the right signing, or trade takes time to make. And we have a solid team we are adding to, not building (Nats/Marlins).
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
2:35 pm
Nine of Prince Fielder’s 17 hits at Turner Field have been home runs. The big load has a .191 batting average but a .528 slugging percentage in 89 at-bats (24 games) at the ballpark.
He has eight homers and 12 RBIs in his past 14 games at Turner Field, including a pair of two-homer games.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
2:36 pm
OMG that guy can’t take a walk to save his life. Talking about Adam Jones here. His BA is fine, but such low amounts of walks kill his OBP.
beekay
January 3rd, 2012
2:37 pm
DOB…when does your top ten movie list for 2011 come out?
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
2:39 pm
DOB, so what you’re saying is to probably get ready for Fielder within our division here soon?
Yeah, I didn’t buy their GM claiming LaRoche as their opening day 1st baseman. Just BS talk knowing they’re going all out for jelly belly.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2012
2:42 pm
What did the padres give for carlos quinten?(good threat smacker at the plate)2 pitchers; were they both middle row pitchers or top tier? I was kinda hoping that wren would get us one more big bomber for left field to shape-up the line-up,to stay up w/the rest of the division,but instead we digress for mediocrity,in hoping our boys will come out a gunz-a-blazin’fired up from the meltdown. Uh, that might be kinda hard since we struggled some against the Nats,(stronger)marlins,(stronger),phils(they slap us around like a silly stick)were pretty much easy pickins for the rest of the division. But wren is goin’ by we were doin’ pretty well up to Aug.26th, Oh wow,were ready to shake em’ up now!
Leebo
January 3rd, 2012
2:43 pm
Braves need to dump Wren and Scherholtz … and while they are at it get rid of Freddy that is if they want to win again. Too much nepotism there.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:43 pm
Be interesting to see if they can afford paying Fielder, Werth and Zimmerman big dollars. Fielder/Werth each making 20 million+ per year. I know Lerner is the richest owner in baseball, but that Werth deal and Rendon’s presence in the minors may lead them to letting Zimmerman walk. Not saying that should happen or will happen, but it could be a possibility.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:46 pm
Zimmerman is a career .288/.355/.479, 120 OPS+ hitter in 3,668 plate appearances – Free agent after the 2013 season and will be 29 years old on opening day 2014.
Just sayin….
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:48 pm
And in his last three years, he’s hit .296/.370/.499, 132 OPS+ in over 1,700 plate appearances.
TB
January 3rd, 2012
2:49 pm
Just saw the deal the Padres made on Quentin? Why in the world didn’t the Braves do this deal? and for pratically nothing?
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
2:51 pm
Ken Rosenthal on twitter trying to find out if a rumor is bogus or not: Toronto sends Travis Snider, Kyle Drabek and 3 prospects to Seattle for Felix Hernandez or for Michael Pineda.
TB
January 3rd, 2012
2:54 pm
I do, however, believe the Braves have already improved merely by subtraction (Lowe, McLouth, et al.)
Couch Tater
January 3rd, 2012
2:55 pm
In the Braves’ first four seasons at Turner Field 1997-2000, they ranked in the top 20 percent in baseball in both attendance and payroll, drawing more than 3 million fans annually. But that balance shifted in 2001, when attendance began to slide.
Pretty much fits Andrew Zimbalist’s answer here…
A new stadium gives the owner an opportunity to get more revenue out of his players, and if his players generate more revenue they should be paid more. And so the smart owner says, I’m going to take advantage of my new stadium by increasing my payroll and putting a better team on the field, and getting my fans really excited. If the owner does that you can get a honeymoon effect that lasts five, six, seven, eight years
http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=35
I think the Marlins are doing that, too. Next up, San Jose.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:08 pm
This guy is fast becoming one of my favorite tweeters. His info proves out more often than not unlike that hack Connolley in Baltimore. I also like how he lists the signings and trade he broke
Tweeted today
Scott Swaim
@MLBInsideNews
Multiple connections in the MLB. Broke the news of Albert Pujols signing with the Angels, Cuddyer/Rockies, Furcal/Cardinals, Beltran/Cardinals
Source: #Orioles and #Braves are making progress on an Adam Jones deal. Hearing Jurrjens is involved.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2012
3:10 pm
If still dealing w/da ‘O’s go after Luke Scott; past years good numbers, Big bomber we need in left.
Ward
January 3rd, 2012
3:10 pm
Hello everyone! See the rumors are flying all over the place.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
3:11 pm
Just saw the deal the Padres made on Quentin? Why in the world didn’t the Braves do this deal? and for pratically nothing? — TB
Not about what was given up in the deal; Braves probably don’t have $7 mill available right now to spend for one player, and if they did it wouldn’t be for a player who’s missed 40-some games on average over the past three seasons. They’ve got enough health issues with current players.
Ward
January 3rd, 2012
3:14 pm
The way I see it,Wren will stick to his guns,because he’s not going to get a player like K.K. or Lowe again,so we will have to be patience. Like some one said, ” All You Need Is A Little Patience……..”
AFAN
January 3rd, 2012
3:14 pm
I think Adam Jones would be a great addition. The braves need someone who can hit for average. They also need something to excite the fans. Currently the braves need something to show that they want to win.
and sitting on no moves in the off season doesnt excite fans.
TommyP
January 3rd, 2012
3:15 pm
Luke Scott was let go by Baltimore, wasn’t he?
Also…his arb numbers will be big. Seems he’s too old for arbitration but that’s where he is since he started later than usual.
Ward
January 3rd, 2012
3:17 pm
If Wren,doesn’t get the package. I’m going to say no deal.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2012
3:17 pm
Tired of hearing sometimes no-moves are the best moves; but yet no-moves are the worst moves,(when done right)so we’re the snooze-to-loose team. I want my team my city to dabble in the milk & honey w/the other big boys,c’mon wren give us a shot,ask the ‘o’s about luke scott or is he a fa?
VaBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
3:18 pm
DOB so are these continued rumors about the orioles legit at all. Would the braves ever consider trading hanson? We would have to get a monster return to even consider it IMO.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
3:18 pm
Well maybe we get Jones and Bell in a deal.
MFin04
January 3rd, 2012
3:18 pm
“sitting on no moves in the off season doesnt excite fans.”
Epic collapses, however, do excite fans. So, perhaps they are banking on another one of those this year to excite the fans?
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
3:18 pm
I like Quentin, however he’s pretty bad defensively and has had trouble staying on the field.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
3:20 pm
Well maybe we get Jones and Bell in a deal.
Josh Bell doesn’t look like much at this point. I’d bet they’d try to pawn him off as some sort of valued piece.
Steve
January 3rd, 2012
3:21 pm
If Prince Fielder signs with Washington, the Braves are looking at finishing fourth in the division. They have pitching, but not enough offense. Way to go Fumbling Frank Wren.
Lefty
January 3rd, 2012
3:23 pm
The upside of all this NL East activity is that the Mets are probably going to be really bad this year! Hey, I’ll take what I can get.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:25 pm
BALTIMORE — As expected, the Orioles have non-tendered Luke Scott on Monday, opting against offering a contract to the outfielder — who is coming off season-ending surgery — but not completely closing the book on his return.
The 33-year-old Scott, who would have been eligible for free agency after the 2012 season, instead immediately becomes a free agent.
“He’s had some good years for the club,” executive vice president of baseball operations Dan Duquette said of Scott, who was the team’s MVP in 2010. “We’d like to see what the market is for him. We would like to keep the door open on that.”
Scott, who has said that he would like to remain in Baltimore, underwent surgery in late July to repair SLAP and posterior tears in his right shoulder. The procedure, combined with the fact that he made $6.4 million last season, made him a prime candidate to be non-tendered, thus Monday’s December 13 announcement is hardly a shock.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
3:26 pm
Steve, well I think they do sign Fielder. They apparantly have the money and the need, though LaRoche isn’t all that bad a player either. Plus, I don’t believe the market is as big as Boras claims for PF and WSH has a better chance than the Orioles or M’s of winning, so he’d probably rather go there.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2012
3:27 pm
Who in the world doesn’t have health issues? the last I check we had enough of our own always hits everyone, yet, mabey a change of scenery might make them healthier. quentin still put up some pretty descent power #’s. Realizing mabey the avg. is middle what 250’s but hey he jusgt might hit 280,smashing 25-30hrs. would bring xtra bombing threat in the line-up. Ok to disagree, then what’s luke scott’s status if no adam jones, can we check out Luke scott? too much for atl also? Dang,lest we be content to regress?
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm
If Prince Fielder signs with Washington, the Braves are looking at finishing fourth in the division. They have pitching, but not enough offense. Way to go Fumbling Frank Wren.
The Marlins signed 3 players. One of them plays every 5 games and another every 2-3. I don’t think that’s going to make them automatic Wild Card contenders. The Nats are improving, but still have some holes, even with Fielder.
And I’ll say this once more: last year’s Braves won 89 games. This year’s Braves is essentially the same, only minus Lowe, minus A-Gon, minus McLouth, and minus Proctor.
I know we like to mope and make scapegoats, but the Braves have a good foundation.
jjj
January 3rd, 2012
3:29 pm
Coco Crisp changed his twitter picture to him in a Orioles Jersey in Little League?
willie g
January 3rd, 2012
3:33 pm
the braves will finish in 4th place.in th e east , this team needs to move to vegas get a rich owner and win the ws. THE LAS VEGAS BRAVES
DAP
January 3rd, 2012
3:36 pm
If still dealing w/da ‘O’s go after Luke Scott
good idea, but scott is a free agent. no need to deal with the O’s on that one.
Ward
January 3rd, 2012
3:39 pm
That rumor is true on Cody Ross,but couldn’t get the details. Braves are interested.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:40 pm
jeffrey d I agree. As I said once before. The chances of the Braves collapsing like they did ever again are about the same chance DOB gets hit by a meteor walking inside a Mall during a Braves game. Uts true the team is better right now because of subtraction of the players you listed. Don’t forget Lugo and Conrad they were not very good either. With Bourn, and yes I mean the baseball player Bourn, not the movie character Bourne, getting to start the year with the team it is mighty improved
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:40 pm
jeffrey d I agree. As I said once before. The chances of the Braves collapsing like they did ever again are about the same chance DOB gets hit by a meteor walking inside a Mall during a Braves game. Uts true the team is better right now because of subtraction of the players you listed. Don’t forget Lugo and Conrad they were not very good either. With Bourn, and yes I mean the baseball player Bourn, not the movie character Bourne, getting to start the year with the team it is mighty improved
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:40 pm
jeffrey d I agree. As I said once before. The chances of the Braves collapsing like they did ever again are about the same chance DOB gets hit by a meteor walking inside a Mall during a Braves game. Uts true the team is better right now because of subtraction of the players you listed. Don’t forget Lugo and Conrad they were not very good either. With Bourn, and yes I mean the baseball player Bourn, not the movie character Bourne, getting to start the year with the team it is mighty improved
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:41 pm
Lmao wow touching submit button
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
3:42 pm
beekay: I was waiting to see Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and A Dangerous Method before doing the list. Want to be thorough, and those look like they could make the list, certainly Dragon Tattoo could. I’ll do it sometime next week, probably.
Arkansas Transplant
January 3rd, 2012
3:42 pm
Play it again, Sam.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2012
3:43 pm
$7 mil. too much for the braves to deal w/ for one player? Teams that make things happen are pretty crafty to afford it. We got a owner who is a huge land owner now, mabey some acres for sale might help differ some of it. O’ I forgot,the braves are handling the baseball business themselves. Other teams(who make things happen) ownerships are involved in baseball dealings. But the braves ownership group won’t because they can give a rats tail about the baseball team. Someone out there(S.O.S) rescue the atl baseball before we ho-hum the season into last place.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
3:43 pm
Ok to disagree, then what’s luke scott’s status if no adam jones, can we check out Luke scott? too much for atl also? _ 74bravesjersey
Scott, who has said that he would like to remain in Baltimore, underwent surgery in late July to repair SLAP and posterior tears in his right shoulder. The procedure, combined with the fact that he made $6.4 million last season, made him a prime candidate to be non-tendered,
Looks like his status is: damaged goods.
Buster Olney
January 3rd, 2012
3:43 pm
HEARD THIS: DOB just got hit by a meteor walking inside a Mall.
PMC
January 3rd, 2012
3:44 pm
Well, I mean I’m pretty excited about having Michael Bourn for a full season. Also I’m hoping that Heyward rebounds and if that’s the case, I’d much rather have Martin Prado hopefully healthy who is an excellent bat when healthy and not being screwed around with than Seth Smith.
Martin Prado is an infielder no doubt. He’s a 2nd basement honestly, but the Braves did that to themselves. Don’t throw a way an opportunity to save money with Seth freaking Smith.
Prado is much more valuable than a money saving chunk and a maybe outfielder.
With Prado you have much more of a chance.
Not worried about Fielder in Washington really. It will take him time to adjust anyway. I bet the Braves Ticket Office is doing flips though.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
3:45 pm
RC, thank you (2:22 p.m.)
Ward
January 3rd, 2012
3:46 pm
DOB-The Grey is coming out with Liam Neeson. Looks like that would be a good one too.
Arkansas Transplant
January 3rd, 2012
3:46 pm
Buster Olney, yes but the Braves aren’t playing.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
3:46 pm
DOB doesn’t have a HOF ballot. The AJC doesn’t allow their writers to vote. — Chris from the Rock
Actually, I have a ballot. It’s sitting right here in front of me on my desk, in fact. Eighth year I’ve received one. But you’re correct, we (AJC beat writers) are not permitted to vote.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
3:48 pm
TennesseePaul: Love that Santogold album; it was on my list in 2009. Don’t have the other two you mentioned, nor have I heard them.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
3:49 pm
They have pitching, but not enough offense.
And as putrid on offense as the Braves might have been last year, they still scored more runs than either of the blog’s current darlings, Nats and Marlins. But tons of head-hangers here are ready to believe that all will go right with those teams while nothing will go right with the team for which they ostensibly cheer, hence Braves are doomed to failure. Go figure.
There are many more question marks on the two teams that so many posters here are ready to anoint than are on the Braves. Unless, of course, you view everything through the grey-colored glasses of the “realists” who so cower in abject fear of being thought a “homer” that they couldn’t see reality if it came up and made acquaintance with their jawlines.
Beautiful day in Miami, making me a little feisty, I guess.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
3:49 pm
DOB, saw that you retweeted this link from the Nats reporter: http://www.natsinsider.com/2012/01/looking-at-future-payrolls.html
Exactly why I was saying before that while the Braves may have in excess of $40 million to spend next year, doesn’t mean they will dump it all on free agents. They have plenty of core, young players that will need to be locked up or paid through arbitration. Nats will go through the same thing, as many teams with multiple talented young players have to go through.
74bravesjersey
January 3rd, 2012
3:52 pm
Yeah, I’m frantic, sorry fella’s my medicine driving me nuts. I’ll go to a happy place & calm downZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:52 pm
ncscoots love the “head hangers” label and how fitting for the “We Are Doomed Crowd”
Hillbilly
January 3rd, 2012
3:53 pm
Welcome back scoots. Nevermind the fact that the Marlins finished 30 games back last year and the Nats were 21.5 out. It’s not like they were one or two pieces away from a pennant. They’ll both be better, no doubt, but damn…those CBIs are humming like Stevie Ray Vaughn’s amplifier.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
3:53 pm
PD, those are the guys who never ask out the girl, because they’re always afraid she’ll say “no”.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
3:53 pm
However, I do see the Braves getting one key free agent next offseason.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
3:55 pm
The Nats could sign Fielder and I’d still think our Braves were beating them out in 2012. Marlins too. It’s the following years that scare me.
RC
January 3rd, 2012
3:55 pm
DOB, not sure you are even allowed to express your opinion on it, but if you can tell us, who would you vote for on the HOF ballot this year?
Jimmy
January 3rd, 2012
3:56 pm
DOB, well that’s like not having one..if you can’t use it. Like the Dawgs running game.
But, if that is the AJC policy.
LawDawg
January 3rd, 2012
3:57 pm
I will go on record as saying that if the owner of the team raised the payroll to $130 million, I would even accept a genocidal warlord as team owner. I would rather have Idi Amin as owner than Liberty f-in Media.
Ward
January 3rd, 2012
3:57 pm
All have a good one! Talk later tonight. Only one can hope for deal to happen soon? If not patience for me. Peace my friends………
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:57 pm
scoots after a night out I have been awakened to more than one I had wished had said no. Ouch
Jimmy
January 3rd, 2012
3:59 pm
scoots – Contrast that to the girl that says yes to eveyone.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
3:59 pm
Idi Amin would eat the players
RC
January 3rd, 2012
3:59 pm
Efrim,
The Braves seem to face a real risk of being caught “in between”. By the time the Phillies team has declined to the point that they are no longer frontrunners, the Nationals team might have developed enough to take over that spot for the next 5-6 years. Leaving the Braves will a potentially long streak as the 2nd best team in their division.
I’m not saying that is necessarily going to happen, just that the risk is certainly there.
STRETCH
January 3rd, 2012
4:00 pm
The Braves, Dogs and Jackets got all their fans hopes up and then almost in sequence they each found a way to go belly up.
The Braves, after they way they went out, should have made more deals than they have so far!
Could anyone write a better script for a lowsy sports town???
The Hawks will be rolling over in a few months. Stay tuned.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:02 pm
Yikes, E-Jax looking for five years, 75-85 million.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
4:05 pm
So what do you guys think Fielder will end up signing for?
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:05 pm
I’m not saying that is necessarily going to happen, just that the risk is certainly there.
Absolutely, however I’m not sure if Wren will make an “all-in” move within the next two seasons. I’ve said before, they have one of the most talented group of young players/prospects 25 years old or under – but it’s tough for any team to make that sort of strike.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:08 pm
So what do you guys think Fielder will end up signing for?
More than Tex, less than Pujols. Eight years, 208 million with an opt out clause after 3 years?
Don in TN
January 3rd, 2012
4:08 pm
DOB, you mentioned the Girl w/Dragon Tattoo, have you seen the original Swedish trilogy? Very Good. I hope they haven’t messed it up too bad in the American version.
Don in TN
January 3rd, 2012
4:09 pm
Musical Taste? Yes, there’s just no accounting for it. I hear some people don’t even like Hank Williams.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:10 pm
Why would the Yankees give Jackson a contract after seeing what happened with Burnett? If they end up signing him, then clearly, they refuse to not have one big ticket free agent signing every year. Soriano for damn near no reason last winter.
BravesFanSince1982
January 3rd, 2012
4:11 pm
“Could anyone write a better script for a lowsy sports town???
The Hawks will be rolling over in a few months. Stay tuned.”
And don’t forget the Falcons who are about to be “one and done” in the NFL playoffs.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
4:12 pm
26mm per, eh. I wonder if they could include a weight claus in that contract?
bobby
January 3rd, 2012
4:13 pm
What the Braves should do is make a call to CWS see if they are willing to pay off some one Alex Rios contract and make a deal for him say like Hoover Asencio and Harrilack for Rios and have the White Soxs take a bite out of his big contract.
Sam from the Swats
January 3rd, 2012
4:14 pm
Trade Chipper..that is all.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
4:14 pm
Idi Amin would eat the players
Just another guy who was the victim of bad PR.
Jeff R
January 3rd, 2012
4:16 pm
So, I wonder if the Rockies will buckle and give Wren what he wants in exchange for Prado – Seth Smith and Wheeler? I can’t see Wren buckling, however. Seth Smith (or Smith and a lesser prospect) doesn’t seem enough for Martin.
And there’s still no good answer who Wren would line up to replace Chipper, if needed. The Braves, presumably, would improve in left field with Smith. Yet, if Chipper is sidelined, the team loses a solid bat with no good prospect to replace him. Perhaps not exactly a trade off (gain Smith in left, lose Chipper at third), but worth gaming.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:17 pm
What the Braves should do is make a call to CWS see if they are willing to pay off some one Alex Rios contract
That’s some contract they’d have to eat. I fear Rios is cooked.
ajcfan1
January 3rd, 2012
4:21 pm
Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!
Marteeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!
Matt
January 3rd, 2012
4:21 pm
I watch some Orioles games up here and Adam Jones is a good player still developing. I think the O’s value him a little too high, but he still does have the potential to be a 20/20 guy and pretty easily. He needs to gain some better plate discipline and cut down on a few strikeouts, but I think he will. He’s still only 26. Also his defense is plenty adequate enough for a corner outfield spot where he’d play in Atlanta.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
4:23 pm
The Nats could sign Fielder and I’d still think our Braves were beating them out in 2012. Marlins too. It’s the following years that scare me.
I dunno. 2013 gets the team some financial flexibility and they could certainly get an impact bat to replace Chipper, should he retire. If you make the assumption that the young players on all three teams continue to grow, then how do the trailers become the leaders? By signing Jayson Werth and Jose Reyes, LOL? Huh-uh.
Now, the likes of Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel, and all the other other under-25 talent on the Braves might all go belly-up while the comparable players on the Nats and Marlins become perennial All-Stars. In that case, the 2013-and-forward Braves could be in trouble. Sure. You bet.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
4:26 pm
Seth Smith is a scary acquisition. I’m not against a platoon but the platoon needs to be better than whats there. Smith smokes RHP but struggles away from Coors except in 2011. Not that I don’t think he could get acclimated to Turner but his numbers definitely wouldn’t be the same. Encouraging to see that he did have success away from Coors but is still only one year. I worry more about Diaz in that platoon. He still had a good average against LHP this year but the power was non existent. 8 XBH all year long is terrible,
Bay Area Steve
January 3rd, 2012
4:27 pm
scoots,
I’m gonna go with your Tigers, ’cause of you and Wayne. But, I’m not sure you want my quasi-support. I swear if another team shuts it down thinking college field goals are automatic, I’m gonna… Well, I’m gonna… OK, I’m not going to do anything, but tell your boys that touchdowns work too, would ya?
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
4:28 pm
Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!
Marteeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!
Everyone meet my new BFF.
Bay Area Steve
January 3rd, 2012
4:30 pm
“make a call to CWS see if they are willing to pay off some one Alex Rios contract”
I keep reading this as CVS. The asininity (is this a word? asinineness?) of the White Sox to take that on. Between that, and the horror that is my local CVS, there’s gotta be a joke here. Man, I miss bubdylan. Tater, what you got?
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
4:32 pm
Did Q&A w/ Dale Murphy, which I’ll post in a day or two. The classy Braves icon discussed the Hall of Fame, his low vote totals, etc. Plus his Wilco/alt-rock fandom. I’ll post it Wednesday or Thursday.
Mike Berry
January 3rd, 2012
4:33 pm
Friend of mine over in Baltimore tell me that the Orioles just signed ourfielder Jai Miller from the A’s. He says that the press is reporting that this likely means that Adam Jones and Josh Bell (3B) are likely leaving Baltimore for both Jurrjens and Prado.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
4:33 pm
OK, I’m not going to do anything, but tell your boys that touchdowns work too, would ya?
Fleet feet at the skills, my man. Tigers don’t kick no steenkeng field goals, LOL
Healthy and happy, they are. Ellington running on two good legs makes all the difference for those guys, ’cause it gets Sammy and Nuke some mano-a-mano sometime during the game. And that goes under the heading of “not fair”.
But the truth is, I don’t really care that much about the outcome. Oh, I want a win, but I’ll still party afterwards, regardless.
Jay Dubu
January 3rd, 2012
4:36 pm
Wait Nate McLouth have one of his typical Pittsburg seasons.
Some players are not built to play when you’re expected to win.
Wow
January 3rd, 2012
4:41 pm
“There are many more question marks on the two teams that so many posters here are ready to anoint than are on the Braves. ”
Heyward, Hanson, Jurrjens, Hudson, Pastornicky/SS, Prado/LF, Chipper, the young pitchers. I know the homers don’t like to admit it, but the Braves probably have more question marks than anyone in the division.
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
4:41 pm
Musical Taste? Yes, there’s just no accounting for it. I hear some people don’t even like Hank Williams. — Don in TN
Exactly. One of the greatest songwriters to walk the planet and the most influential country artist of all time. But you’ll find plenty, especially those under 50 or so, who’d insist that Kenny Chesney is better than Hank.
old timer
January 3rd, 2012
4:42 pm
I’m just really tired about the Braves liking a player because of his salary and his arbitration status. If you can’t afford to play in a market this big, sell the dang team already. Also, a salary cap would be a good idea.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
4:42 pm
Lets say the Braves acquire Jones which i think is a real long shot. Neither seem to want to give what the other wants and Hanson makes more sense than JJ for the Orioles. I would then sign Betemit to serve as my back up at 3B and around infield.
Hillbilly
January 3rd, 2012
4:44 pm
BAS, be sure to pull for my Hogs in the Sugar Bowl tonight, too.
Oh wait, never mind. We got stuck in the ####### COTTON BOWL! What the hell?
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
4:44 pm
DOB, you mentioned the Girl w/Dragon Tattoo, have you seen the original Swedish trilogy? Very Good. I hope they haven’t messed it up too bad in the American version. — Don in TN
Saw the first two Swedish films in the theatre. Then bought the entire trilogy on DVD in the uncut versions, which are each about 3 hours long. Let me tell you, as great as those first two were in the theatre, they are even better in the longer versions. So much great stuff was cut for the theatrical versions. And even the third one, which I’d heard wasn’t nearly as good as the first two, is actually damn good, at least in the extended version I saw on DVDs I bought. We just watched all three of them during the last week or 10 days.
Plus, there’s another 2-hour disc of outtakes, bonus scenes and a documentary. Haven’t watched that yet.
Mike Berry
January 3rd, 2012
4:44 pm
Friend of mine over in Baltimore tell me that the Orioles just signed ourfielder Jai Miller from the A’s. He says that the press is reporting that this likely means that Adam Jones and Josh Bell (3B) are likely leaving Baltimore for both Jurrjens and Prado. Says the story is gaining legs around Baltimore.
TennesseePaul
January 3rd, 2012
4:47 pm
Love that Santogold album; it was on my list in 2009. Don’t have the other two you mentioned, nor have I heard them.
Excellent. I sampled some of Santogold and liked what I heard. Glad to hear it was also a top 50. Mikal Cronin got good reviews from other places. The friend who recommended it has solid taste if not more obscure than I’m used to. Aleo Blacc, from what I’ve sampled, is soul. Sounded real interesting. I’ll let you know when I hear it.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
4:47 pm
be sure to pull for my Hogs
I can envision a moment in my next couple of evenings where I might be enjoined to drop a big “Soooooo-ey!” in the middle of some otherwise polite conversation.
TennesseePaul
January 3rd, 2012
4:50 pm
And even the third one, which I’d heard wasn’t nearly as good as the first two, is actually damn good, at least in the extended version I saw on DVDs I bought.
I really enjoyed that one. Saw it in the theater. I loved all three of those films. Glad you got to finally see #3.
I went to see the new release. It was good, but I think the conclusion in the original is more true to the book from what I understand (never read the books) and the new one seemed to get … well I’ll let you see. It’s good, but the original I liked better. Of course, if Hollywood makes all 3 the score could change between them. It’s pretty close now as it is.
I’ll have to get that trilogy box set. That sounds pretty cool.
Braves Fan in N.Y.
January 3rd, 2012
4:50 pm
Keep hearing Adam Jones isn’t good defensively. He won a Gold Glove in 2009, right?
How bad can he be?
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
4:51 pm
Trade Chipper..that is all. — Sam from the Swats
As a 10/5 player (10 yrs in bigs, 5 with current team) he has full trade veto powers. He’s not going anywhere.
That is all.
Bay Area Steve
January 3rd, 2012
4:51 pm
Will do, hillbilly.
N8
January 3rd, 2012
4:52 pm
“Exactly. One of the greatest songwriters to walk the planet and the most influential country artist of all time. But you’ll find plenty, especially those under 50 or so, who’d insist that Kenny Chesney is better than Hank.”
You’re argument might have held more water and had more impact had you used Hank Jr as your example. But I find it really hard to believe that anybody out there thinks that Chesney is “better” than Hank Williams.
Or are you still having a hard time grasping the difference between somebody younger “liking” to listen to Chesney over Williams? Big difference.
Again it’s all relative to taste. I hated B&W movies when I was a kid. And would still prefer to watch a current movie with kickass special effects and good camera work.
But that doesn’t mean that I think the Transformer movies are “better” than the original Star Wars flicks.
Find me somebody that has actually tated that Kenny Chesney is better and more influential than Hank. Cuz I’m not buyin it.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:54 pm
In that case, the 2013-and-forward Braves could be in trouble. Sure. You bet.
By in trouble, I mean, them playing at or around our level…..which will make it harder to grab one of those wild card spots. Ahem, especially when the upper echelon of the crappy Central and West get to feed on terrible teams at the bottom of their divisions. I don’t believe the Marlins and Nats are posiitoned to be a 100 game winner every season, but they’ll both be a lot better over the next few years. There really isn’t any reason thjey shouldn’t be based on their additions and younger players coming up(moreso the Nats).
N8
January 3rd, 2012
4:54 pm
DOB, I get your point. But I think you’re being over the top with that statement.
BravePack
January 3rd, 2012
4:54 pm
DOB
You hearing anything about this Jones rumor and it supposedly heating up?
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
4:56 pm
If you make the assumption that the young players on all three teams continue to grow, then how do the trailers become the leaders?
Well, if I had to choose one position player and one starting pitcher on one of the three teams going forward, neither would be on the Braves(Stanton/Strasburg). But I see your point. I do think you’re selling the Nationals short. I’ve certainly liked their draft strategy in recent years, far more than our Braves.
ncscoots
January 3rd, 2012
4:57 pm
By in trouble, I mean, them playing at or around our level…..which will make it harder to grab one of those wild card spots.
That hasn’t stopped the AL East from producing WC teams, though. Me, I have no problem with playing in a tough division; makes you swim or die.
N8
January 3rd, 2012
4:59 pm
DOB, Actually, I don’t think you’re overall statement is that over the top. I think the age you used is.
I’m 40, and there isn’t too many people I know my age, (even the non-musicians), who don’t appreciate what Hank has meant to country music. So in hindsight, had you said, people “under 30 or even 25″, it’s a little more believable.
I’m not a huge listening fan of Hank Sr. But am very familiar with his stuff and 100 percent agree with you. Single handed most influential country artist of all time.
Kenny Chesney is a baffoon. There’s a small amount of ability there. But better than Hank, he’s not.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
5:02 pm
That hasn’t stopped the AL East from producing WC teams, though
I think the level of crappy is higher in the National League basement and the AL East has the 3 of the top 5 orgs the last 5 seasons, more or less.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
5:04 pm
Me, I have no problem with playing in a tough division; makes you swim or die.
A lot less drowning in the NL Central and NL West.
Michael C.
January 3rd, 2012
5:05 pm
Josh Bell? That’d be pretty funny, as we was traded by the Dodgers for none other than George Sherrill. Also, he is a career .200/.221/.264 hitter in 220 MLB ABs.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
5:07 pm
Efrim,, yeah I saw about 10 days ago e jax was going to ask for a min of 4-5 yrs at at least 60m. Not worth it. Not even to the yanks for that.
Wow
January 3rd, 2012
5:07 pm
.285/.329/.476 20 HR 87 RBI 47 Doubles
That’s Jeff Francoeur. I’m not at all saying that the Braves should go after him, I just find it funny that had the Braves not had any sort of connection to Francoeur, he would be the main person the Braves would be after. Probably would’ve traded Prado and/or Jurrjens for him.
He’s exactly the type of player the Braves like to go after. Cheap, fluky year which the Braves would spin into him turning the corner. Along with touting his past success. (and by success, I mean his RBI numbers)
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
5:07 pm
Josh Bell doesn’t look like much more than a bench bat.
abwright
January 3rd, 2012
5:08 pm
Some thoughts on Strasburg and Stanton and all the other young players in the NL East…
They’re good players, but their early success is likely to be moderated as the league figures them out. Or, knock on wood, they pick up an injury like Heyward did last year.
An inmate at a correctional facility
January 3rd, 2012
5:12 pm
Seth Smith is not the answer. I’d give up both Jurrjens and Prado for Adam Jones. Dude has speed, power from the right side of the plate, youth and can play left field very well.
Many of you are looking for a “steal of a deal”, looking to give away our garbage for another team’s gold. However, reality says that in order to get something of value…you have to be willing to give up something of value.
The fact is that both Jurrjens and Prado are coming off injury riddled seasons. Both are question marks health wise. Jones is a streaky player. Many on here, being Braves fans, are placing high value on Jurrjens and Prado based on seeing them at their best….yet selling Adam Jones short because on what his perceived short comings are.
Well, the news flash here is that Orioles fans are doing the same when it comes to how they value Jones at his best…and evaluating Jurrjens and Prado at their worst (injury prone).
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
5:13 pm
Josh Bell is not much more than a bat off the bench. The O’s list of valuable prospects are low.
John Pappadoppagapoulas
January 3rd, 2012
5:14 pm
“Talkin Baseball” I’d pay good money to be sitting at a little league game right now eating a hot dog and washing it down with a Coke.
How long till pitchers and catchers report anyway?
cosmo
January 3rd, 2012
5:17 pm
Girl with the Dragon Tatoo – USA version is very good – the intro rocks with the Immigrant Song cover-
Tom Waits – he has a following – when I saw him in Asheville a few years back half the audience stood the whole time- definitely not everyone’s cup of tea- some of his earlier vocals had a Louie Armstrong sound
Maybe Ted can trade Liberty some land for the Braves… The Phils spend about 6.8 mil per roster guy and the Braves 3.6 mil – that is tough to overcome- but you never know
Wow
January 3rd, 2012
5:18 pm
Well, Adam Jones can’t be that bad, considering the Braves are interested in him.
Whatever happened to trusting in Wren, kool-aid drinkers?
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
5:24 pm
Do you guys realize — I know I didn’t until I just looked it up — that Adam Jones is only 11 months younger than Matt Kemp?
Matt Kemp has 128 homers, 140 stolen bases, a .294 career average, .350 OBP, .846 OPS, 464 runs and 457 RBIs in 787 major league games.
Adam Jones has 75 homers, 44 stolen bases, a .275 career average, .319 OBP, .756 OPS, 310 runs and 291 RBIs in 625 major league games.
N8
January 3rd, 2012
5:25 pm
“The Phils spend about 6.8 mil per roster guy and the Braves 3.6 mil – that is tough to overcome- but you never know”
More money doesn’t mean better. Or would you prefer D-Lowe over Jurrjens or Hanson? Would you prefer Nate McLouth over Freddie Freeman? How about Linebrink over Kimbrel?
It’s not tough to overcome if you spend your money on the RIGHT guys. Not overpaying for the wrong guys.
Josh
January 3rd, 2012
5:25 pm
Dob, are you hearing anything about a trade in the works?
Bay Area Steve
January 3rd, 2012
5:26 pm
John Pappadoppagapoulas,
Me too, brother. Me, too.
By the by, are you that guy from Webster?
jb
January 3rd, 2012
5:27 pm
Just ask Greg Walker about Rios…
N8
January 3rd, 2012
5:27 pm
“Whatever happened to trusting in Wren, kool-aid drinkers?”
WTF is that supposed to mean?
He got rid of the weakest link in the rotation. He has YET to trade away any of our top prospects. He has addressed the CF problem for 2012 at least, by virtue of the deadline deal for Bourn last year.
I understand that idiots like you thought we’d be players for Pujols and Reyes. But has it ever crossed your mind that the best moves he’s made so far has been NOT making any moves?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
5:30 pm
theeeey’rrre back.
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
5:31 pm
Kenny Chesney couldn’t put on Hank’s boots… Couldn’t even put on Jr.’s boots for that matter..
David O'Brien
January 3rd, 2012
5:33 pm
Coco Crisp gets two years and guaranteed $14 mill in deal to remain with A’s.
cosmo
January 3rd, 2012
5:33 pm
N8
You’re right but it’d be nice to throw some dough at some proven guys and lasso them in for 4-5 years .
Not to be negative but right now – I’d say with Hanson & JJ health concerns there is a decent chance Lowe may win more games then one of those guys – after Melky’s year last year at KC – McLouth may reappear from the Bermuda Triangle of the Braves outfield as his former self with good numbers- let’s hope Jason has a great year
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
5:33 pm
IF this was reported, I apologize for the repeat, On this day 1920 Yanks bought Babe Ruth and exactly 53 yrs later in 1973 G Steinbrenner bought yanks from CBS. Probably two of the biggest days in the history of the yanks.
keylargo
January 3rd, 2012
5:34 pm
Peter Frampton’s 1954 Gibson Guitar was lost over 30 years ago in a plane crash. It turned up in Curacao (Andruw’s country) and was returned to him. Here’s the story.
http://www.spinner.com/2012/01/03/peter-frampton-guitar
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
5:37 pm
DOB – Are you for or against a possible Jones acquisition? He’s no Matt Kemp, but how many Matt Kemp’s are really out there?
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2012
5:39 pm
BAS:
Isn’t bubdylan still here and using the name “Ward”?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
5:41 pm
Jones doesn’t fix the CF problem going forward cause he is a poor CFer, even playing half his games in a small park like Camden. No way he is worth near what the Os were claimed to want
MiaBchBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
5:41 pm
If Fidel Castro’s corpse were to own the Braves, he would want to be the closer, insisting to Roger that his curveball can still get people out – the same curveball that got him turned away during a Washington Senators’ tryout back in the early 50’s. Like Hitler’s art “career”, poor “Fido” could not stand rejection, so he decided to become a wealthy totalitarian, er, “socialist”.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
5:43 pm
Find me somebody that has actually tated that Kenny Chesney is better and more influential than Hank. Cuz I’m not buyin it. _ N8
I have no idea who Kenny Chesney is. Am I missing anything?
I heard part of a song on New Years Eve, something about “Tequila makes her clothes fall off”
I was trying to decide who the guy sounded like, Randy Travis came to mind, but I don’t know, maybe just generic country male voice………… anyway I didn’t listen to the whole song. Maybe it was Kenny
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
5:43 pm
McFanned it …………… Kenny’s fault
Matt
January 3rd, 2012
5:44 pm
Enter your comments here
Bay Area Steve
January 3rd, 2012
5:46 pm
No, Ken, as much as I wish it were. The character’d be a whole heck of a lot funnier, for starters.
“Kenny’s fault”
Bat, not certain, but I think it’s still Keith Law.
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
5:47 pm
Bat – That wasn’t Kenny Chesney, that was Joe Nichols.
Shawn
January 3rd, 2012
5:49 pm
Jon Morosi feels pretty certain Prado is the one traded and thinks strongly that a Prado for Smith trade is happening sooner or later. Braves cannot have a guy making Prado’s salary be the utility player on their team. Smith makes a little less. Talk about penny pinchers. My goodness.
Shawn
January 3rd, 2012
5:53 pm
And nobody is even coming close to offering the Braves what they think Jurrjens is worth. That’s from a pretty reliable source. Not a chance he gets traded unless they come down significantly on their asking price.
N8
January 3rd, 2012
5:54 pm
“I’d say with Hanson & JJ health concerns there is a decent chance Lowe may win more games then one of those guys “
Sure. And Scott Proctor was more productive than Kawakami was for the big club last year. Being available is half the battle. I can’t argue that Lowe has more wins than those two guys.
But if Beachy, Minor, and anybody else on the Braves staff makes the same amount of starts as Lowe does, it’s likely they’ll lead the team to more victories than Lowe would have or will with Cleveland. Especially when you consider bang for your buck.
I’ve very much of the opinion that spending 10 million dollars to make Lowe go away is a more sound investment than allowing him to pitch every 5th day for only 5 million more.
Classic case of addition by subtraction. Efrim (or somebody) made a sarcastic comment about Beachy and Minor and the kids “walking on water”.
Not the case at all. But D-Lowe last year was knee deep in quicksand and that’s worse than not being able to walk on water.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
5:57 pm
some of y’all take all the speculation way too seriously…..
N8
January 3rd, 2012
5:59 pm
“I have no idea who Kenny Chesney is. Am I missing anything?”
No Bat you’re not. He’s a generic, nothing special about him, current country star who is popular. Dime a dozen.
But I’m not buying that people out there over the age of 40 are saying he’s better and more influential than Hank.
Just the same way as nobody over 40 would have ever said the Backstreet Boys are better than The Beatles.
If you want to argue that teenage girls or woman in their early to mid 20’s would be jaded enough by somebody they think is “hot” to say something like that? I’ll buy it.
But find me somebody nearing the age of 50 who would actually say that Kenny Chesney is “better” than Hank Sr, and you’ve likely found somebody with bigger mental issues than their musical tastes.
Russell Bell
January 3rd, 2012
5:59 pm
Coco Crisp gets two years and guaranteed $14 mill in deal to remain with A’s.
Lots of big money thrown around this offseason (Pujols, Reyes), but its the smaller deals like this one for Crisp that have me scratching my head. Mediocre hitter, with speed – $14 mill over 2 yrs, 3rd yr option. Seems like more of the same kind of crazy money spent on the non-elite 2B and SS that signed early in the offseason (Barmes, etc). And Cody Ross wants ~$10 mill over 2 yrs? Bad investment for that kind of money.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
6:02 pm
I find it hard to think the Braves make a move for Seth Smith without having a back up in place. If JJ had been moved to the Reds I think it would have made it a larger possibility that Prado would have been dealt as I feel Frazier would have been apart of that deal. If the Braves sign someone like Wilson betemit then I would feel more inclined to believe Prado is on the move. Unless someone is brought in before hes dealt he won’t be traded.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
6:02 pm
Okay BAS, IBKL
Bat – That wasn’t Kenny Chesney, that was Joe Nichols. _ Jbailz
Jbailz_
I googled him, looks like the guys has released 7 albums, and has a few “hits”, how about that.
The things I don’t know. It would be a long list. Thanks
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:09 pm
if Crisp is worth that, Cody is prolly worth what he wants, but I agree that a lot of mediocre players are getting better deals than you would think. Perhaps that extra wc spot is influencing teams in some way
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2012
6:10 pm
Most current country music fans have already discarded Jamey Johnson. That should tell you all you need to know about Kenny Chesney vs. Hank Sr.
Bat Masterson
January 3rd, 2012
6:12 pm
All right, I’m headed back to April 1963. Someone should block any calls Wren tries to make to Baltimore.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:14 pm
april ‘63. good times. I was actually fairly young and carefree……
faninva
January 3rd, 2012
6:14 pm
Gosh, my heart goes out to the Porter family. Just terrible.
jmart1951
January 3rd, 2012
6:15 pm
It is becoming apparent that the Braves must have a solid deal going or otherwise they would have been in on Reed Johnson. He just signed with the Cubs for $1.15 million. He hit over .300 last year and and played all 3 outfield positions. He was on the market for 1 day.
If FW doesn’t have a pretty “sure thing” in the works it makes no sense that he wouldn’t have gone out and gotten Johnson. It would have improved the team and still left all the trading pieces in tact.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:19 pm
pitched Reed last season at the deadline. Braves showed no interest then according to reports.
been a good while since Reed played every day and the Braves likely did not see him as a need .would have been more likely if they did not have Diaz in the fold already
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:20 pm
he also was known to prefer to stay in Chitown and perhaps signed for less than he would have elsewhere
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
6:21 pm
Bat – You aren’t missing much, he has a few songs that I like. But I’m one of the apparently rare 28 year olds that respect and appreciate where Country Music came from. I guess I have my parents to thank for that. My first cassette tape was Alabama from my dad.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:25 pm
not to disparage Alabama, but they were kinda poppy country too compared to earlier stuff IIRC
jmart1951
January 3rd, 2012
6:26 pm
Nolie,
Don’t they need a backup center fielder? Also isn’t Reed better than Diaz?
Even if they had to pay $1.5 mill to get him wouldn’t they be in a better situation now than before.
Sure, Diaz might have to be released at some point in Spring Training or thrown in on a deal somewhere, but the object is to make incremental moves that make your team better whenever possible.
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
6:27 pm
For a kid in the 90’s they were as country as it could get without going back farther.
Grizzled Veteran
January 3rd, 2012
6:32 pm
I usually love the off-season, but this is the worst ever – and not just with the Braves,but for most of baseball. Somebody do something! Start a fake trade rumor, anything. The wilder the better, say Jose Bautista for half the Braves farm system. Yeah, that sounds good. Somebody get it started and by morning it will life of its own.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:33 pm
Like I said, I really liked him last July, but Reed is not much of a CFer, not someone you would want to depend on if something happened to Bourn. and he misses a lot of games
with Diaz already getting paid he is not likely the guy they would be all that interested in, certainly not to the extent that your first post would indicate IMO
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
6:35 pm
I wouldn’t mind seeing Joey Bats in our OF… I think it’d help put some butts in the seats…
UGA1999
January 3rd, 2012
6:35 pm
The Braves are about to be sold….that is why nothing has been done…..Shhhhhhh
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
6:40 pm
UGA – Don’t tease..
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:41 pm
hey I liked Alabama when they came out in 1980, but certainly not as hard core country as what I was used to from the 50s on.
McFann O O o
January 3rd, 2012
6:43 pm
Mark Bowmen When building a roster, you don’t necessarily want to be utilizing the word “if” too frequently. But when it comes to the likes of Heyward, Prado and even Brian McCann, the Braves are not going too far out on a limb when assuming each will bounce back from last year’s struggles in expected fashion.
Why would you say “even Brian McCann”? It’s not at all going out on a limb to guess he’s going to bounce back…
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:44 pm
how did that guy change his career so dramatically so late in life?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:45 pm
is Big Mac toast???
CB
January 3rd, 2012
6:47 pm
The owner of the Nationals,Ted Lerner,is 85 and worth $3.3 billion. Why would he be worried about over paying for Prince? Dang,he will probably not live to the end of Fielder’s contract.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:50 pm
If I was in that situation I’d spent whatever it took to leave a winning legacy in my wake
McFann O O o
January 3rd, 2012
6:50 pm
nolie—
No! What are you talking about?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
6:51 pm
just thinkin’ ’bout Bowman’s words of wisdom McF.
McFann O O o
January 3rd, 2012
6:52 pm
nolie—
Hmm…well, that could take a long time, then…
CB
January 3rd, 2012
6:53 pm
nolie,take him a long time to go thru 3.3 billion. I would do the same thing.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
7:01 pm
In response towards Reed Johnson, none of us know whether Wren put an offer on the table for him. He made it pretty clear that he preferred to stay in chicago. Bottom line as far as our needs, we do not know who Wren has put offers in to or not. There MAY be 3 or 4 one yr deal offers on the table for Cody Ross including from the Braves. Ross not taking them because he wants more. Bottom line is we do not know. We don’t know the conversations with teams or agents.
Puma
January 3rd, 2012
7:02 pm
CB – is he single? That’s the question,
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
7:03 pm
I’d spend it on a rollercoaster in my backyard
Jeff R
January 3rd, 2012
7:05 pm
“But when it comes to the likes of Heyward, Prado and even Brian McCann, the Braves are not going too far out on a limb when assuming each will bounce back from last year’s struggles…”
To paraphrase the immortal Frank Wren, it’s time for Heyward to cross the threshold… from big time prospect to regular producer.
Prado will bounce back… and likely in a uniform other than the Braves. McCann needs to avoid the dinky injuries and he’ll produce up to his norms.
CB
January 3rd, 2012
7:08 pm
Puma,no. Were you wanting to be the next Anna Nicole?
Abwright
January 3rd, 2012
7:11 pm
Blurry vision when facing a 90+ mph fastball, concussion, badly pulled oblique=”dinky injuries”
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
7:12 pm
not a ferris wheel Jeffrey???
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
7:13 pm
I leave work at work
George
January 3rd, 2012
7:16 pm
If MARTIN read the front page of this, he must really feel wanted by the BRAVES It says they are still trying to trade him. MARTIN should not even want to play for BRAVES the way they are treating him.
Jbailz
January 3rd, 2012
7:16 pm
You have a ferris wheel at work Jeffrey?!!?!??! Awesome!!!! Lol
Couch Tater
January 3rd, 2012
7:17 pm
BAS –
Ha! I ain’t got nothin’. CWS is out of my Adderall. Besides, that Pappadoppagapoulas fellow still has me gigglin.
Makes me wonder if Matsuzaka Gyro would be a good name for a Greek fast food joint. I like the thought of Moussaka from Matsuzaka’s.
Ee-ro? Ji-ro? Gee-ro?
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
7:20 pm
I’m head ferris wheel supervisor, Jbailz
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
7:21 pm
Denying Jeff Bagwell would be a travesty
January, 3, 2012
By David Schoenfield
In spring training of 1991, Bob Ryan of the Boston Globe wrote a glowing profile of Jeff Bagwell, suggesting that the Red Sox would one day lament the trade of Bagwell for 37-year-old relief pitcher Larry Andersen.
“Bagwell could be big one that got away,” read the headline.
The story appeared in March. Bagwell had yet to play a regular-season game in the major leagues, but the picture was already clear: Red Sox general manager Lou Gorman had made a mistake of potentially historic proportions.
“Jeff Bagwell owned New Britain,” wrote Ryan. “He hit .333. He led the Eastern League in hits and doubles. Everybody said he was the best prospect in the league, maybe the best in all of Double-A. A year or so in Pawtucket, and then The Bigs.”
Bill James raved about Bagwell, foreseeing him as a hitter capable of winning batting titles. “Gorman has heard it all,” wrote Ryan, “and he is quite prepared to live with the consequences of the deal. ‘In the seven years I’ve been here,’ (Gorman) contends, ‘I don’t think any young player has come back to haunt me yet.’”
Last year, his first time on the Hall of Fame ballot, Bagwell received 41.7 percent of the vote. As Hall of Fame chances go, that isn’t necessarily a distressing starting point. Jim Rice got 29.8 percent his first year. Goose Gossage received 33.3 percent and Gary Carter 42.3 percent. Andre Dawson didn’t begin much higher, at 45.3 percent. Bert Blyleven notoriously started at just 17.8 percent. The writers would eventually vote all those players into the Hall.
The vote total, however, drew outrage across the Internet, and understandably so. For a player of Bagwell’s abilities and accomplishments to receive such a low vote total was … well, something of historic precedent.
Using Baseball-Reference’s ranking of players via its Wins Above Replacement statistic, Bagwell rates as one most dominant players since World War II. Here are the position players ranked Nos. 11 through 30 and how many years it took them to get voted into the Hall of Fame:
Would you vote for Jeff Bagwell as a Hall of Famer?
Yes
No
11. Joe Morgan, 103.5 WAR (1)
12. Eddie Mathews, 98.3 (5)
13. Al Kaline, 91.0 (1)
14. Cal Ripken, 89.9 (1)
15. Albert Pujols, 89.1 (not eligible)
16. Wade Boggs, 89.0 (1)
17. Carl Yastrzemski, 88.7 (1)
18. George Brett, 85.0 (1)
19. Roberto Clemente, 83.8 (1)
20. Chipper Jones, 82.9 (not eligible)
21. JEFF BAGWELL, 79.9 (41.7 percent)
22. Rod Carew, 79.1 (1)
23. Ken Griffey Jr., 78.5 (not eligible)
24. Robin Yount, 76.9 (1)
25. Frank Thomas, 75.9 (not eligible)
26. Pete Rose, 75.3 (not eligible)
27. Paul Molitor, 74.8 (1)
28. Reggie Jackson, 74.6 (1)
29. Jim Thome, 71.4 (not eligible)
30. Johnny Bench, 71.3 (1)
Wins Above Replacement may not be a perfect statistic, but I don’t think anyone can argue that the above list represents anything other than a list of the greatest players of the past 50-plus years. As you can see, other than Mathews, every eligible candidate cruised into Cooperstown in his first year of eligibility. Furthermore, the following players, all with a career WAR below 70, made it in their first year: Brooks Robinson, Tony Gwynn, Eddie Murray, Willie McCovey, Ozzie Smith, Ernie Banks, Dave Winfield, Willie Stargell and Kirby Puckett.
Yet Bagwell couldn’t receive 50 percent of the vote, which indicates one of two things:
1. A large percentage of voters don’t realize how great Bagwell was.
2. A large percentage of voters didn’t vote for him because he had big muscles.
In 1990, the year Gorman traded him to the Astros, Bagwell played at Double-A New Britain (Conn.). While he hit .333 (second in the league) and led the league with 34 doubles, he also hit just four home runs. This fact has been cited as evidence that Bagwell must have turned himself into a slugger who mashed 449 career home runs with the help of steroids. After all, a year after hitting four home runs in Double-A, he hit 15 home runs for the Astros and won the National League Rookie of the Year Award. He would end up topping 30 home runs nine times in the major leagues.
You know how many home runs the 1990 New Britain Red Sox hit? Thirty-one. Bagwell was second on the team; Eric Wedge hit five. The team featured eight position players who would reach the majors, including future Red Sox shortstop John Valentin. He hit .218 with two home runs in 351 plate appearances. New Britain was an impossible place to hit. Ryan suggested because of that, Bagwell wouldn’t be intimidated by the Astrodome.
“It can’t be worse in the gaps than New Britain,” Ryan quotes Bagwell as saying. “The ball doesn’t go anywhere down there.”
The year before, New Britain hit 42 home runs. (Mo Vaughn hit just eight.) It hit 34 in 1988. Bagwell, who Ryan describes in the article as having “something approaching a hockey build,” didn’t lack power; he was just playing his minor league games in the Grand Canyon.
Bagwell has denied using steroids. He never tested positive once testing was initiated late in his career. He wasn’t mentioned in the Mitchell report. He played 156 or more games in 10 of his 15 seasons. Other than his freakishly awesome 1994 season in which he hit .368 in the strike-shortened season, his career shows a rather normal curve of improvement, peak value and slow decline starting in his mid-30s.
But he had big muscles.
Since it would seem presumptuous to assume guilt without evidence, I’ll assume the majority of voters somehow missed Bagwell’s greatness, as they did with Mathews for a few years or with Blyleven for so long. These things happen, but fortunately they usually correct themselves. Bagwell didn’t reach the magic 3,000-hit barrier, and he didn’t even hit 500 home runs. Some of his value is tied into being an excellent baserunner and solid defensive first baseman, things that can be overlooked in Hall of Fame voting.
I assume the voters will eventually come around and realize Bagwell is just one of 22 players with 1,500 RBIs and 1,500 runs scored since World War II — his 152 runs scored in 2000 are the most in one season since the 1930s. Of those 22, he ranks seventh in OPS and eighth in adjusted OPS (behind guys named Bonds, Mantle, Musial, Aaron, Mays, Ramirez and Robinson).
So, yes, Bagwell will eventually get elected to Cooperstown. Because he wouldn’t be denied admittance because he had big muscles.
faninva
January 3rd, 2012
7:21 pm
The owner of the Nationals,Ted Lerner,is 85 and worth $3.3 billion. Why would he be worried about over paying for Prince? Dang,he will probably not live to the end of Fielder’s contract. – CB
I paid one of his real estate co.’s rent for 4 years. If the nats do get Prince, I would like to formally apologize to braves nation for any role i might have had in Prince landing in DC
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
7:26 pm
Barry Larkin deserves Hall of Fame nod
January, 2, 2012
By David Schoenfield
There seems to be a widespread assumption that Barry Larkin will get elected this year to the Hall of Fame. After all, he is the highest-ranking player from last year’s ballot who didn’t get in, and without the addition of any strong new candidates this year, it ostensibly clears his path to Cooperstown. The Baseball Writers’ Association hasn’t failed to elect at least one player since 1996, so the conjecture is Larkin will jump from 62.1 percent to the necessary 75 percent.
I’m not so sure.
Here’s a look at the past 12 players the BBWAA has elected other than those who made it in their first year of eligibility, with each player’s year of election, how many years it took to reach 75 percent of the vote once they had reached 60 percent and their percentage increase in votes once they crossed the three-quarters threshold:
Player Year 60 to 75 Gain
Bert Blyleven 2011 3 5.5
Roberto Alomar 2011 1 14.3
Andre Dawson 2010 2 10.9
Jim Rice 2009 3 4.2
Rich Gossage 2008 2 14.6
Bruce Sutter 2006 1 10.2
Ryne Sandberg 2005 1 14.9
Gary Carter 2003 2 5.3
Carlton Fisk 2000 1 13.2
Tony Perez 2000 4 16.6
Don Sutton 1998 2 8.4
Phil Niekro 1997 2 12.0A couple of notes here. The “momentum” theory of voting certainly holds true. In the past 25 years, only four players who reached even 50 percent of the vote have failed to get voted in by the BBWAA. Jim Bunning, who reached 65.6 percent on his 10th year on the ballot but never made it; Orlando Cepeda, who didn’t reach 50 percent until his 13th season and maxed out at 73.5 percent in his final year (Bunning and Cepeda both eventually made it via the Veterans Committee); plus current holdovers Larkin and Jack Morris.
While that’s a positive sign for Larkin, as you can see from the above chart, not all the players made it immediately upon reaching 60 percent. The average percentage gain in election year for those 12 was 10.8 percent, so if Larkin receives that increase, he’ll fall just short.
That could be problematic for him, because beginning next year the ballot starts getting crowded with strong candidates: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling and Sammy Sosa in 2013; Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent in 2014; Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Gary Sheffield in 2015; Ken Griffey Jr. and Trevor Hoffman in 2016. So while the momentum theory is true, it’s also true that a candidate’s vote total can fall or rise based on the caliber of competition on the ballot. It’s certainly possible that if Larkin doesn’t make it this year, his vote total may end up stagnating for several years.
Now, as for his qualifications … Barry Larkin is easily qualified for Cooperstown, even by fairly tough Hall of Fame standards. He hit .295 and topped .300 nine times (among shortstops, only Luke Appling, Derek Jeter, Arky Vaughan and Honus Wagner had more .300 seasons). He was a 12-time All-Star, three-time Gold Glove winner, won the 1995 NL MVP Award and ripped out 2,340 hits. He did everything well — hit for a little power, stole bases, drew some walks, ran the bases well and was a solid player. At his best, he was not only the top shortstop in the National League, but one of its best players — according to Baseball-Reference wins above replacement, he ranks as one of the NL’s top 10 position players in six seasons.
That’s one of the strikes against Larkin — there isn’t one single skill that makes him stand out, like Ozzie Smith’s glove, Cal Ripken’s durability or Robin Yount’s 3,000 hits. The other strike against him is he was injury-prone throughout his career and topped 140 games just seven times. Despite that, however, he did play 2,180 career games, which would place him 10th among the 19 current Hall of Fame shortstops. Larkin’s B-R WAR of 68.9 wins places him seventh among Hall of Fame shortstops, and the only two who began their careers after World War II are Ripken and Yount (who spent the second half of his career as a center fielder). Even if you include Jeter and Alex Rodriguez (who will end up with more games at third base than shortstop), you’re talking about Larkin as a top-10 all-time shortstop.
That’s a Hall of Famer. And I think the voters will agree, with Larkin inching past 75 percent.
CB
January 3rd, 2012
7:32 pm
Pirates sign JoJo Reyes – probably win a couple against the Braves this year.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
7:36 pm
thank goodness the Mets sdidn’t sign him or we would be doomed to last place fur shur…..
Mark Duncan
January 3rd, 2012
7:40 pm
DOB, I have not posted yet this postseason but after hearing all this garbage about trading Prado I feel that I must say something. Prior to hurting his finger against Cincinnati in 2010 Prado was undeniably the best player on the team. One key hit after another and more than adequate play at second. His enthusiasm and well documented love for the Braves were there for all to see. The staph infection this past season hurt his effectiveness but he still produced more than not.
Though born and raised in Albany, New York, I became a huge Atlanta Braves and San Francisco 49er fan. There have been highs and lows for both teams. Hell, I was calling for the arrest of O.J. Simpson back in 1978. After the miserable choke of this past year and the only news so far is the attempt to trade the best player from the playoff season of one year ago. For some guy named Smith. What is the rationale behind this. Is it money or is Wren reverting to his days in Baltimore where he was famously duped by a radio caller commenting on a player who didn’t even exist. Granted he has made some good moves but to trade Prado in my opinion would be damaging to the Braves for ‘12 and beyond. PS Love the Stones unreleased tracks from Some Girls. Go 49ers!
Blog Monitor
January 3rd, 2012
7:46 pm
yeah, come on DOB, you have all the answers for these non trades, proposed trades, trade rumours, FA signings, FA non signings, salary limits, etc..
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
7:50 pm
Mark Duncan, you can answer your own question. If Prado is traded for a clearly inferior player, it will be a salary dump. There is no other reasonable explanation. We can only hope it doesn’t happen because I agree with you about his value to the Braves.
glord1
January 3rd, 2012
7:52 pm
Mark – Could not agree with what you said more. Marteen would be one of the last Braves I would ever trade. He is a flat out baseball player and a joy to watch play. I can not believe that some other team is not offering a ton for a guy that could put up 15 hr 70 rbi and a .300 ave as a 2B. I hope the Braves are smart enouth to hang onto him.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
7:58 pm
glord1, how do we know other teams are offering plenty for Prado? Might be all about trading JJ for an OF and keeping Prado as their plan. We’ll get answers soon. Has to be this month sometime. I mean pitchers and catchers report February 20, or somewhere around that time.
JJ is gone, Prado back in utility role is my conclusion.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
7:59 pm
Wren hasn’t made many salary dump trades. Lowe was a salary dump, but he was also a suck dump. The only other one I can think of was Soriano.
George
January 3rd, 2012
7:59 pm
Brava 7:50
AGREED, MARTIN must feel he is unwanted by the BRAVES.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:02 pm
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120103&content_id=26255886&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl
Nothing really new…..
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
8:03 pm
nolie, please. You too? The Mets? Yeah, right. They’re rebuilding for God’s Sake. You as a former scout oughta be ashamed of a comment like your 7:36. Hopefully your former colleagues don’t get wind of that. Ouch to your rep.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:03 pm
Almost all of his trades helped (or meant to help) the Braves
Uggla, Jurrjens, McLouth, Vazquez, Vizcaino
glord1
January 3rd, 2012
8:03 pm
Brian I dont think teams are offering alot for Prado. I think he is extremely valuable and should bring a haul if he was traded. His downside is he seems to get banged up and miss time. His upside is he can hit anywhere in a lineup except clean up and can play 5 positions. I expect him to go 15+ Hr, over 70 RBI and hit .300 again. The guy just needs to stay healthy, play one spot and be left alone.
I just hope he is not traded.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:04 pm
Pretty sure nolie’s comment is dripping with sarcasm
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:06 pm
George, when you think about it, it’s baffling that Wren would even dangle Prado out there. When healthy, he’s one of the best players on the team. You’re right, I wonder, if he isn’t traded, how all this will affect him.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:08 pm
I wonder what people will say if we get to Spring Training and Drew Sutton is the projected back up SS and Jose Constanza is the 4th outfielder……..
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
8:09 pm
Who said that Wren is dangling Prado. Its been stated several times that he isn’t throwing names out but is listening on players. The only one I see him actually trying to move is JJ. Obviously Prado has appeal to other clubs due to his versatility and above average offense at 2B. But if the Braves were serious in moving Prado he would be gone by now, the fact that he is still here shows the value the Braves place in him.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
8:11 pm
“Pretty sure nolie’s comment is dripping with sarcasm”
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:11 pm
I certainly wouldn’t be surprised by that, Efrim.
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:13 pm
Who said that Wren is dangling Prado.
DOB, Bowman, Renck, and a lot of other writers.
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:16 pm
If the Braves weren’t serious about trading Prado, they would have quashed the rumors. They were very quick to dispel the rumor about JJ, Prado and some pitching prospects being traded to the Os for Jones.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
8:18 pm
Brava
I don’t remember one time where DOB has stated that the Braves have ‘dangled’ Prado. Other teams have called on his availability but I have yet to see a verified report stating that the Braves were shopping Prado. Dangling him and listening are two different things. If they were dangling him he would undoubtably be gone by now. The fact that the price to acquire him is where it is is a sign of the Braves reluctance to move him just to move him like Lowe. Now I agree that I’m worried w/ how Prado will handle seeing his name in rumors but I don’t believe its the Braves trying to move Prado as it is teams looking to acquire him.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
8:18 pm
After the season Wren announced every player was available and he would listen to all offers and would make a move only if it improved the team & there were no untouchables. Sorry if you have forgotten that or missed it.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:19 pm
Wren’s not going to trade Prado unless it strengthens the team. If it was Prado for Smith straight up, don’t you think the Rox would accept that, twirl their moustaches, and do a “Meh Heh Heh!!” laugh in a heartbeat?
Wren won’t do that trade because it hurts the Braves.
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:19 pm
I’m not going to argue about semantics. Prado is clearly being shopped. You can be in denial about it. I’m not.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:20 pm
P’Cola, Wren could be waiting to get the best possible deal for either. Teams get desperate in Jan…….oh forget it. I don’t really believe that.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
8:25 pm
Brava
Don’t know what reports you’ve been seeing but if he was being shopped he would be gone. No doubt they are listening as he has been attached to rumors w/ several teams. Two totally different scenarios. Not saying he won’t be moved, though I find it unlikely at this stage of the game unless a replacement is brought in beforehand.
ncgary
January 3rd, 2012
8:26 pm
and the operator says 40 cents more, for the next 3 minutes
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:27 pm
Matthew Diaz @diazfoundation 10m
Standing behind 4 indecisive old people at this coke machine is my personal nightmare. What’s yours? pic.twitter.com/Wx3mx5Yt
I wanted to answer You and Seth Smith platooning in LF, but I’m just not that mean.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
8:27 pm
JJ is gone, Prado back in utility role is my conclusion….CTB
nah
Steve
January 3rd, 2012
8:28 pm
Hope Bourn puts together a stellar season and the Braves feel obliged to move him at the deadline for a couple of top prospects. It could happen and wouldn’t bother me at all seeing as how I feel that we won’t re-sign him if he goes the free agent route.
The fact his career average OBP is 3 points behind Andruw Jones (even with all of Andruws sorry years added in) that tells you that Bourn still isn’t the OBP machine that he needs to be. While he is better than we have had in quite a few years and is hitting his best years .. there is simply no reason to give him a contract in the 6+ million per year range and I think he will be wanting FAR more than that. We can let him walk .. but I would much rather get some compensation at the deadline .. especially if our season is tanking.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:31 pm
I really don’t think we’ll be “tanking” at the deadline
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
8:36 pm
Stop it you kool-aid drinker.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:36 pm
At the All Star Break last year, the Braves were 3.5 out of 1st place and had the 4th best record in baseball. And that was with Lowe stinking, McLouth tanking, and Uggla under .200
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:37 pm
danconnollysun Dan Connolly @
@ATL3124 Realistic in that Orioles have a talented young CF and Braves have a boatload of young Ps. But Os want a ton 4 him.
As talented as Jeff Francouer. And he isn’t really that young.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:37 pm
Oh I’ve got a Kool-Aid water fountain
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2012
8:38 pm
nolie: a question and I apologize if you already answered it:
What was your take on how baseball scouts were portrayed in the movie Moneyball? I guess the movie left the impression that most were “old and in the way”, but I was impressed with the actors playing the scouts and how they conducted themselves. I actually came home and looked up the credits, because I thought maybe they used real old time ball players, they just had that look in the movie.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:38 pm
And he isn’t really that young
He’s 26!
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:38 pm
danconnollysun Dan Connolly @
@ATL3124 Agreed. Never said #Orioles would get Hanson. I cant imagine #Braves dealing him. But O’s would b motivated if he were available
Motivated to trade Adam Jones, Manny Machado, Jonathan Schoop, etc. for Hanson?
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
8:39 pm
P’cola, I’m not going to argue over something that’s been reported on extensively, to include right here on this blog. If you want to believe Wren isn’t shopping Prado, that’s certainly your prerogative. I’ll continue to believe he is.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:40 pm
He’s 26!
Not that young in baseball terms……..
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:41 pm
Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman are young. Adam Jones is entering his prime years, imo.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:44 pm
Heyward and Freeman are exceptions. Not many enter the Majors and succeed at 21
ncgary
January 3rd, 2012
8:44 pm
he’s been working and slaving his life away
we gotta get out of this place
Mister Frisky
January 3rd, 2012
8:48 pm
Fourth!As in place.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
8:48 pm
ASK BA
By Jim Callis
January 3, 2012
It would be fair to say that the Athletics had one of baseball’s poorer farm systems coming into the offseason. Following the Trevor Cahill and Gio Gonzalez trades—and to a lesser extent, the Andrew Bailey deal—would Oakland’s system now rank in the top half? How favorably does their new quartet of pitching prospects (A.J. Cole, Sonny Gray, Jarrod Parker and Brad Peacock) stack up against other systems’ top fours?
Dan Thompson
Bristol, England
Jim Callis: Before the A’s added nine prospects in those three trades, their farm system would have ranked among the five worst in the game. That influx of talent will give them a significant boost and pushes them to the middle of the pack. (If I sound vague, it’s because we ranked the systems in the Handbook after the Cahill deal and before the Gonzalez and Bailey transactions. We’ll update those rankings again in the spring.)
Only three other organizations have a quartet of pitching prospects in the same class as Oakland’s. I’d rank them in this order: Diamondbacks (Trevor Bauer, Tyler Skaggs, Archie Bradley, Dennis Holmberg), Mariners (Taijuan Walker, Danny Hultzen, James Paxton, Jose Campos), Athletics (Parker, Peacock, Cole, Gray) and Braves (Julio Teheran, Arodys Vizcaino, Randall Delgado, Sean Gilmartin). Oakland’s has the best No. 4 pitching prospect of any of those groups.
Elmer Gantry
January 3rd, 2012
8:49 pm
“At the All Star Break last year, the Braves were 3.5 out of 1st place and had the 4th best record in baseball. And that was with Lowe stinking, McLouth tanking, and Uggla under .200″
The first of September the Braves had an 8.5 game lead in the wild card then McCann and the entire offense tanked, Fredi started swallowing really hard and the rest is history.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
8:50 pm
Efrim
239 players made their MLB debut this year with most being in the 24-25 year range. Adam Jones is still quite young. The fact he will be eligible for FA after his age 27 season shows how early he actually got started. Hes quite experienced for most 26 year old but is coming up to his prime years. The first few years of his FA contract should really be his best.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
8:51 pm
I haven’t watched it yet Ken, but according to beane’s philosophy that’s about how he thought of them at the time. K Law did too at one time but has moderated his stance quite a bit. not sure what Billy thinks now days but he hasn’t been very successful either so who cares?
Kat
January 3rd, 2012
8:51 pm
For college hoops fans Seton Hall is up on #8 UConn by a lot…
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:52 pm
I know everybody’s glass is half-empty with crap, but given the good play of the Braves for 5 months of the season, I’d call that one last month an anomoly.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
8:54 pm
Correction on that last post. 239 registered their first at bats of their career last year (so some pitchers are in there) but 132 pitchers also made their debut last year.
Kat
January 3rd, 2012
8:54 pm
Michigan State and Wisconsin game is close and more entertaining than the UConn one.. 50 secs left.. 50-49..
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
8:54 pm
man you like Jones WAAAAY more than I do P’
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
8:55 pm
Savannah State at Arkansas is more exciting. Razorbacks up 39-18
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
8:59 pm
and speaking of anomalies, i gotta finish of season 5 of Primeval tonight,….. and then have to wait until 2013 for season 6
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
8:59 pm
The Hawks are starting to pull me in again. I’m always hesitant with them but they’re playing well so far in this young season.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:00 pm
Heyward and Freeman are exceptions. Not many enter the Majors and succeed at 21
I don’t know….Jones has had close to 2,500 plate appearances at the major league level and produced a .275/.319/.437, 101 OPS+ line. He’s been a bit better the last three seasons: .281/.326/.455, 109 OPS+(1,758 PA’s). He hasn’t really shown an ability to get on base and he will turn 27 next season. It’s kinda getting close to knowing what sort of major leaguer he is and is going to be. He’ll probably be better offensively the next 3-4 seasons, but his defense is probably not going to get much better and his bat doesn’t profile in a corner outfield spot.
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
9:01 pm
Which is why I don’t get that post by whoever it was that whined about how we’re a lousy sports town with everyone letting us down. Yeah, we’re a crapola playoff town but regular seasons are usually a blast with most sports around here. It could be a lot worse.
jeffrey d
January 3rd, 2012
9:01 pm
Me too, Soph
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:06 pm
nolie
I do like Jones. I think hes a good major league ball player. If the guy takes a few more walks we may be seeing him in a similar light. And his offense is very good for a CF. I don’t hold him in near as high regard as the Orioles due. I think his defense will translate better to LF than it does in CF. The guy is still young at 26 but coming into what should be the prime years of his career. Through interleague play he has hit well against NL pitching .308 .347 .495 .841 (279 AB). The biggest knock on the guy is his OBP, which who knows what will happen there.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:07 pm
BA is going to have the Braves org. ranking lower than I originally thought. If they think Arizona, Seattle, Oakland’s Top 4 ahead of ours…
Although that’s probably because of Delgado and Gilmartin’s rankings in comparison to the other #3/4’s they mentioned: Bradley/Holmberg, Paxton/Campos, and Cole/Gray.
PD
January 3rd, 2012
9:07 pm
Adam Jones has finally reached the 20 HR arena for the first time in 6 seasons, never left the teens in HRs prior to 2011 and the Orioles radio guy just said he was a 30 HR hitter.
Ray
January 3rd, 2012
9:07 pm
Efrim, no way do I see the O’s giving that up for Hanson. Would I like to see it, probably but the O’s owner has a history of loving certain players and refuses to trade them no matter what the return. Apparently they had several offers in the past for Brian Roberts that were in the favor of the O’s and PA refused to let him go.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
9:09 pm
I think his defense will translate better to LF than it does in CF. P’
I agree with that but when Bourn goes he would take over CF. and like Surhoff I think his slugging goes down quite a bit in the Ted. The Yard is a homer park most years.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:10 pm
Looks like Wilkin Ramirez signed a minor league contract w/ the Twins.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:13 pm
Nolie
Thats one thing that could make Adam Jones attractive to the Braves. He would open up doors in the 2013 class. They can keep him in LF and attempt to sign a CF or slide him over if they feel they can acquire a stronger LF. I don’t think he hits as many HR in the Ted but might actually benefit from a lineup that can offer some protection opposed to one where he is a featured bat.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:15 pm
P’Cola, he’s going to have to hit for a high batting average to post respectable OBP’s for a corner outfielder. I don’t think his bat profiles there, although he would most likely be above average defensively in a corner…but below average in CF. Plus, as nolie said, he’s hit in a very good hitters park for his Baltimore career. I’m not a big fan, certainly not for near the price the O’s want.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
9:16 pm
VJ, I see that BBC has a new series called The Story of Musicals. not sure what station it is on, you might wanna check it out to see if you can get it
ncgary
January 3rd, 2012
9:19 pm
aint no mountain high enough
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
9:20 pm
nolie-
He’s at work, but I will try to remember to mention it to him…thanks!
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
9:20 pm
I do NOT want him in CF at all and I’m not really a believer in lineup protection, so I’ll still pass.
I won’t consider seppuku if they got him, but I do not think he is worth near what has been thrown around as trade pieces.. and if Frank asks I’ll darn tootin’ tell him so
Couch Tater
January 3rd, 2012
9:23 pm
Braveheart -
I hope your at Philips Arena to watch the Tony Mitchell Show.
Greatest Catch Ever "Otis robs Andy"
January 3rd, 2012
9:24 pm
DOB…..Long time reader, but first time commenting. I read the blog religiously and enjoy learning about other facets than just baseball. I did read a few pages back that you did an interview with Dale Murphy. You may mention this in your article when it comes out, but I was wondering. Even though you have a vote, but can’t becasue of the AJC. Would you vote for Murph? I for one, being a long time Braves fan would sure like to see him in there. He is such an ambassador for the game and I for one don’t understand the fact the people say that if you take away the last 3-4 years of his playing days, he would be in the hall. I feel if you do not break any of the rules for eligibility and you are hall of fame worthy at one point in your career, it shouldn’t matter what happens in the latter parts of your career. Just my opinion, but I would love to have another Murph in the big leagues so my boys could look up to him, just as I did!! Especially if he played for the Braves!!
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:25 pm
Efrim
I agree that the price the O’s want isn’t worth the return. Hes hit for a respectable average the last few years and has been a focal point of their offense. Its weird to look at his stats and see how hes produced. He seems to hit well when not in a pressured part of the order. He’s primarily hit 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th. His numbers are incredibly respectable when not hitting 3rd or 5th which he wouldn’t have to do on this team.
Batting 2nd: .297 .343 .495 .838 (562 AB)
Batting 3rd: .236 .277 .397 .674 (428 AB)
Batting 5th: .252 .303 .372 .675 (250 AB)
Batting 6th: .324 .371 .528 .899 (358 AB)
Thats where hes spent most of his career hitting. I see him more as a compliment piece to a team then a focal point. In Baltimore hes a focal point. Here he is a complimentary piece to an already solid team. Now I’m not in favor of paying the asking price they seek as I think they overrate the type of player he is. For the right price I think he’d be an asset to this team.
phil
January 3rd, 2012
9:26 pm
Happy new year all…
We still haven’t fired FG.
We’ve sat on our hands while the other teams around us improved themselves.
Jeff Porter’s wife gets killed thanks to an incompetent moron and stupid policy.
What exactly do we have to look forward to this baseball season?
Shawn?
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
9:30 pm
ciao for now y’all
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:33 pm
P’Cola, you need to keep in mind he’s hit in a really good hitters park…..Turner Field is going to sap some of his power, I would think – as Camden Yards is a damn good hitters park. Now, I think the move away from really good pitching in the AL East may help him, but I don’t think it’ll offset the move to a much more fair park.
Fairbrave
January 3rd, 2012
9:34 pm
As we all know Frank Wren, he will get Adam Jones if he wants him for very little. Maybe JJ and a couple of minor leaguers. He’s just waiting around to get the right deal. It maybe a couple of more weeks. If he gets Jones and keeps Prado then he will sign Jack Wilson as back up ss.
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
9:35 pm
Jones away: .265/.308/.404 – 1,200 PA’s
Jones home: .285/.330/.470 – 1,220 PA’s
I know some of those plate appearances were in Seattle, but only about 147 in total.
kenhotlanta
January 3rd, 2012
9:36 pm
Sopheee:
I was expecting this to be a down year for the Hawks, especially when they couldn’t resign Jamal Crawford. But, Jeff Teague has stepped up and I think the team has good chemistry this year, at least so far. Marvin has gotten better and Josh seems to be in the games so far, so hopefully they will keep it up and make this an interesting season. This may be the first time ever all 3 of the Atlanta sports teams are in the “elite” at the same time. (not counting the Flames/Thrashers or the Championship Chiefs}.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:41 pm
Efrim
Hes hit roughly 40% of his HR away from Camden which isn’t bad. I don’t expect him to come in and hit 30 HR but whose to say he doesn’t come in and hit 20 with a few more doubles. I don’t believe hes a 3,4,5 hitter in a lineup. He may one day grow into a 5 hitter but never a 3 or 4. We’re not a team that needs him to be that big hitter, which is one of the reason’s I wouldn’t meet the asking price. I think his numbers hitting outside the heart of the lineup are an example of that. Some guys just can’t perform in those positions. Hes hit well against NL pitching in the ABs given. We here all the time about guys who are NL guys and guys who are AL guys. Sometimes a complimentary player is the one that can get you to the next level. But again theres no way I make the move at the current asking price.
brian
January 3rd, 2012
9:49 pm
I still like Cain longterm better than Adam Jones
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:49 pm
Efrim
I think a lot of young hitters struggle away early in their careers. Heres an example of a young guy who hits in a hitters park I think most here would kill to have.
Justin Upton
Home: .305 .389 .552 .941 (1209 PA)
Away: .249 .325 .424 .749 (1193 PA)
So they have about a similar amount of at bats. I know they aren’t the same hitter but you can see my point.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:51 pm
brian
I’m assuming you mean Lorenzo Cain and I’ve wanted him since before the Grienke deal. I don’t see the Royals willing to move him at this point but I would take him over Jones at this point.
ColoradoBravesFan
January 3rd, 2012
9:57 pm
I don’t think A. Jones is worth JJ even up.
JJ and Jones both have 2 years left before FA, JJ is an all-star #2/3starter. That alone is worth more than an avg CFerwith low OBP, that doesn’t OPS above .775/800, isn’t that good at stealing bases and is not rated as a good defensive CFer.
I would much rather take my chances on JJ returning to pitch 25-30 starts/180 innings, then trade him in the off season next year for a CF/3B prospects. This gives the Braves young pitchers another season in AAA to build innings and get more experience to perform when called up in 2013.
I just do not like A. Jones for the Braves at all….
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
10:00 pm
At this point the longer you hold JJ the less the return. If hes not moved midseason then the return probably won’t be worth the effort.
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:03 pm
I’m bored. Someone entertain me
Efrim
January 3rd, 2012
10:06 pm
Upton always showed solid walk rates and more ISO, IIRC – although that last one is from what I remember reading about JU when he was struggling. I know young hitters struggle on the road, but you’d like to see some signs….
I’d like to see some level of progression in an area of difficulty for a young hitter and Adam Jones has actually regressed on the road the last three years: 110 OPS+ in 2009, 98 OPS+ in 2010, 97 OPS+ in 2011(HUGE home/away split this past year). I think there are quite a few warning signs with him as a player. I’d rather chase after a different young hitter with warts – one with better walk rates. His are too concerning, imo.
Mixxo
January 3rd, 2012
10:07 pm
Hawks have my attention right now. They’ve been playing good ball early on.
Dominated the Heat!
Mixxo
January 3rd, 2012
10:08 pm
Heyward still on this team?
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:08 pm
ken – I’ve really enjoyed watching Teague play full-time this year. It was frustrating seeing him ride the bench the past few years but glad his time has come.
Josh Smith is a frustrating one – if only he could get it through his headband that he’s not a jump shooter!
Fun times though, hopefully they keep it up throughout the season.
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:12 pm
Hopefully, they won’t blow it tonight after all this praise.
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:13 pm
SOPHEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:15 pm
cab(eeeeeeeeeeeeee)
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:16 pm
I’m boreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:17 pm
I have no idea if I have totally zoned out on the game I am watching or if it is the world’s longest halftime show..
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:17 pm
And apparently it’s the world’s longest halftime…
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:18 pm
Did I scare everyone away again?
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:19 pm
sweet…
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:19 pm
I gave up on bowl games. I can’t believe I made it through most of the one UGA was in yesterday. Must’ve been uber bored.
Shawn
January 3rd, 2012
10:20 pm
Dan Connolly Orioles beat writer: “hearing a deal for Adam Jones to Atlanta is in place. Heading to Baltimore is Jair Jurrjens and Sean Gillmartin”
cabravesfan
January 3rd, 2012
10:20 pm
The only 2 I’ve been interested in were yesterday- the Rose and Fiesta, which were both actually pretty entertaining games. This one I am watching…I really have no idea why. It’s football and it’s on…
Mixxo
January 3rd, 2012
10:23 pm
Breathe Sopheee!
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
10:24 pm
IIRC the Braves can’t trade Gilmartin until July. May be wrong w/ that assumption but if so it thwarts what Shawn said.
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:24 pm
Ugh, Teague…
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:24 pm
I wanna win, Mixxo!
Mixxo
January 3rd, 2012
10:24 pm
We can’t buy a free throw.
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:29 pm
Dang, I kinda wish we had the last shot instead of the free throws there.
Mixxo
January 3rd, 2012
10:31 pm
Fiddlesticks!
Sopheee
January 3rd, 2012
10:31 pm
Lame.
Mixxo
January 3rd, 2012
10:34 pm
Hawks led the entire game until the 1:00 mark in the 4th.
Every pro/college sports team from Ga. chokes at crunch time. It’s a given.
Eric
January 3rd, 2012
10:43 pm
PCola Brave, I think you can trade Gilmartin, the Braves would have to say its a player to be named later. I’m pretty sure thats what the Rockies did in the Jimenez deal to get Drew Pomeranz
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
10:48 pm
Eric
Thats true. I forgot about that. The trade would then be completed in the summer.
Eric
January 3rd, 2012
10:51 pm
I think the Braves should keep Prado though, there are always injuries, he will be needed.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
10:56 pm
Thought I’d post this as I was reading a story on some of the young up and coming players in East Cobb organization. Not that I needed to as I’ve seen a lot of these guys first hand but here is a write up on Jason Heyward’s little brother. He is a junior in HS right now.
Jacob Heyward is a 2013 1B/RHP with a 6-0 182 lb. frame from McDonough, GA who attends Eagles Landing Christian Academy. Broad shouldered lean athletic build. Open stance hitting, stays inside the ball, good raw bat speed, ball jumps hard, power to the gaps, high finish with good extension, handles the barrel well, projects power, would benefit from more flow thru contact, good runner, has base running instincts, hustling high energy player. Solid defensive actions around first base, soft hands, good footwork. Brother of Braves All-Star Jason Heyward but different athlete/player. Named to the Top Prospect team.
Frank Wren
January 3rd, 2012
10:58 pm
Our roster is set !
Play ball, y’all !
jb
January 3rd, 2012
11:09 pm
Coco sign with A’s
I too would go back to Royals and try to work something out for Cain…
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:10 pm
Frank Wren, he will get Adam Jones if he wants him for very little. Maybe JJ and a couple of minor leaguers.
I would never give more than JJ for Jones, that is NOT “very little”
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:10 pm
Well the Orioles just picked up Jai Miller from Oakland. He’s a power hitting prospect who primarily plays CF. Maybe there will be a corresponding trade to move Adam Jones?
Brad
January 3rd, 2012
11:14 pm
Why would the Braves trade Prado for Smith? Sure Prado had an off year last year, but so did Smith in 2010. I like Prado because he can play both infield and outfield. We know Chipper won’t play 162 games, so having Prado in there seems better than trading for Smith. Plus Prado hits from the right side. Why trade for another left-handed hitter?
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:16 pm
Prado isn’t going anywhere and I’ll offer my own guarantee. He’s much to valuable.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:20 pm
too bad JJ didn’t stay healthy they would not have needed to give up Gilmartin.
I’m not a Jones fan, but if it happens I’ll root for him.
I’m not all that secure about what Connolly says, he likes to come up with his own proposals at times rather than strictly what the club says.
jb
January 3rd, 2012
11:26 pm
Money Brad..read what DOB said. We would have Smith for 4 years but Prado and his agent Boras =5-6 million. But we don’t want just Smith but also CF prospect believe his name was walker..
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:26 pm
I don’t want Jones on my team. We have enough of his kind – low OPB, decent, not great BA’s and the occasional homerun. UGH! Just because he’s still young and still has “potential” doesn’t get my motors revved. Just sign Ross. There’s nothing wrong with him and you can keep Prado and maybe even JJ.
Coach (2012 Fredi's Beisbol Fandango)
January 3rd, 2012
11:27 pm
Shawn
January 3rd, 2012
10:20 pm
Dan Connolly Orioles beat writer: “hearing a deal for Adam Jones to Atlanta is in place. Heading to Baltimore is Jair Jurrjens and Sean Gillmartin”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>….
IF and I said if there is the slightest hint of accuracy to this, you can bet that someone else is coming with Adam Jones to the Braves. Otherwise this is just another rumor blowing in the breeze for the next few hours.
jb
January 3rd, 2012
11:29 pm
I wouldn’t give up Gilmarin & JJ
Brava
January 3rd, 2012
11:30 pm
Don’t know where Shawn is getting this from. I follow Connolly on Twitter and haven’t seen anything about it.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:31 pm
OBP, not OPB. Dont even know what the f*** that is.
NickB
January 3rd, 2012
11:32 pm
To be honest, I prefer a JJ for Adam Jones deal over a Prado for Seth Smith deal.
A) it gives us an instant CF backup without using a bench spot
B) it frees up Prado to do what he’s best at, super utility guy
C) it removes the need to be put in the position of overpaying Bourn after 2012
D) Prado could still be traded mid-season if he’s hitting well in relief of Chipper,Uggla..etc for a potentially greater return.
E) even IF Prado is moved , it removes the mediocre Smith from the discussion as the Braves would likely focus on a power hitting OF prospect rather than a major league ready guy. Even if it’s with the Rockies still (Wheeler and a low level arm perhaps?)
jb
January 3rd, 2012
11:33 pm
Wheeler was the kids name from GT..not walker, my bad.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:34 pm
Brava, cause this Shawn is full of s***.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:37 pm
Wren isn’t dumb enough to trade JJ and a good SP prospect for Adam Jones. If he was then I’d hope Scheurholz or somebody else would slap him across the back of the head. But FW seems pretty smart, so I ain’t worried.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
11:41 pm
jb
Wheeler is the outfielder the Braves want but it is the other CF Blackmon that is from GT IIRC.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:48 pm
The Fugitive is on. Does this movie ever get old? It’s like me – I never get old and stale, I just get more interesting as time goes on. This is what I’ve been told.
P'cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
11:50 pm
This is from one of Connolly’s stories earlier today in reference to Jones and the trade situation.
So what’s the right deal?
Well it wasn’t Atlanta’s Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado and a minor league pitching prospect. That seems like a strong haul considering Jurrjens, a right-hander who turns 26 this month, is 50-33 with a 3.40 ERA in his career. But he’s dealt with injuries the past two years and his durability is a question.
Prado, a 28-year-old infielder/outfielder is a perfect fit for the Orioles in that he can play second base or left field – the club’s two biggest question marks – hits for average and is well thought of for his drive and attitude.
But the Orioles weren’t overly intrigued by that package and reportedly wanted two of the Braves’ top pitching prospects in addition to Prado and Jurrjens, and the Braves understandably balked. Not sure if that is 100 percent true, but something made those talks lose traction.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:51 pm
Blackmon is from Ga but did not go to Tech as far as I know.
Wheeler is from Kalifornia I think
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:52 pm
Kalifornia is a small town in Argentina, by the way.
nolie
January 3rd, 2012
11:55 pm
the Kingdom of Kalifornia is where all the liberal nut jobs in America live.
ncgary
January 3rd, 2012
11:58 pm
cause its 1. 2, 3 strikes you’re out
at the ole ball game
ncgary
January 3rd, 2012
11:58 pm
good nite all
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 3rd, 2012
11:59 pm
Oh yeah. Talking about that Kalifornia. My bad, nolie.
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:00 am
nite gary
theted
January 4th, 2012
12:10 am
DOB
We’ve been hearing a lot from the O’s side of the Adam Jones rumors .. what are you hearing? Is an eventual deal a realistic possibility?
tvsportscaster
January 4th, 2012
12:14 am
nolie, Charlie Blackmon did indeed play at Ga. Tech, but he’s no more than a 4th outfielder, the prospect the Braves want from Colorado is Tim Wheeler.
And yes, Gilmartin can not be traded until after June, because he was drafted this past June, so he won’t be included in any trade.
David O'Brien
January 4th, 2012
12:20 am
DOB, well that’s like not having one..if you can’t use it. Like the Dawgs running game.
But, if that is the AJC policy. — Jimmy
Don’t know what you want me to tell ya, Jimmy. Can’t pay my mortgage and vehicle payments with a Hall of Fame vote.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:21 am
Newsflash! Wren just completed a Trade with the Greenbow Turds for Benjamin Buford Blue,Dan No Legs, and Magic Shoes Gump, for Jair Jurrjens, and Tommy Hanson!
Steve
January 4th, 2012
12:21 am
jeffrey d – do you not understand the meaning of the word ‘if’?
I don’t think our team will tank either, but nor do I just automatically believe all the toughs spots we had last year will miraculously clear up and we won’t develop new bad spots.
1) Chipper actually havd more AB’s than all but three full time third baseman last year despite the knee work and frequent rest days. Do we actually think he can do that again? Even if he does, will his production be at a 2011 level or the 2010 level.
2) Breakout rookies tend to struggle more in their second season than show improvement. That being said, Freeman might actually trend downward.
3) Heyward was overmatched. Pitchers have figured out his swing and I am not sure he will get better. He has the physical talent, but he needs help and I am not sure a guy that did absolutely nothing to help young White Sox hitters will be the right guy.
4) McCann is entering the decline years for catchers in the pre-steroid age. While a few continued to hit well up until about 30, most seriously start to decline due to physical breakdown by 27 or so. Anyone old enough to remember catchers in the 60’s and 70’s know just how few maintained production into their late 20’s.
5) We are actually losing a good bit with Linebrink and Sherril. I realize many Braves fans didn’t care for either, but on any other team they actually have very solid stat lines. Sadly, when comparing them of EOF, JV, and CK they looked mediocre. It will not be easy replacing their production.
6) Freddi G will once again annihilate our bullpen. He is from the Bobby Cox school of thought on taking pitchers out in the 6th at the first sign of trouble. He refuses to let vet pitchers work thru troubles. He will tear these young arms to pieces. Worse yet, we don’t have any old rubber armed vets in the pen to rely on to help with the youngsters can’t lift their arms above their shoulder.
7) I see similar if not better seasons from Uggla and Prado.
Pastornicky will have some rough spots, but I see him as an upgrade on both sides over A-Glad he’s-Gon. A-Gon had the range of a dung beetle and his swings stunk as bad.
9) I see a slightly worse year for our rotation. Face it, Beachy, Hanson and JJ were ptiching well above expectation until the injuries last year. Even if they come back healthy they likely own’tput up better stats. Huddie will pitch about the same, maybe a tad better now that we have a SS with more range. On the back end of the rotation you have Minor and a fill in. I hope the fill in is Medlin personally as he has the gritty makeup sort of like Hudson, Glavien and Maddux. I am not sure the younger arms are mentally as tough.
10) The only true upgrade I see beyond a shadow of a doubt is having Bourn in CF to start the season. Schafer had the tools and if he could have stayed clean might have turned into a Bourn in 3-4 years, but at this stage of their careers their is no doubt Bourn is a huge upgrade.
Can you tell me right now you see a definite upgrade to our team versus what we started the year off with last year other than Bourn? Everything else is ‘hope’, ‘downgrade’, or ‘if they can hit those numbers again’. Lot’s of if’s in there.
Add that to the fact the Marlins have upgraded, the Phillies are about the same (losing Howard for the first 40 games or so isn’t as big as them losing Utley for 40 games last year). And Washington is going to be better. Chances are the upgrades at Florida and Washington will likely cost the Braves a game or two at a minimum.
Call me a downer if you want, but I am trying to keep this in perspective. For my money, we will be close enough that we are afraid to part with any vets .. but we will actually finish a dozen games out in the East again. Our only hope is that Milwaukee and St. Louis are worse and we might sneak the wild-card .. but thats a big hope.
David O'Brien
January 4th, 2012
12:24 am
DOB…..Long time reader, but first time commenting. I read the blog religiously and enjoy learning about other facets than just baseball. I did read a few pages back that you did an interview with Dale Murphy. You may mention this in your article when it comes out, but I was wondering. Even though you have a vote, but can’t becasue of the AJC. Would you vote for Murph? — Greatest Catch Ever
Yes, I would if I could.
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:27 am
they could trade him as a PTBNL I believe as long as he was not moved until June or july
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
12:27 am
Re GILMARTIN:
We are NOT going to trade a LHSP prospect under any circumstances. That was the idea of the pick in the first place. We’re short on good LHSP pitching. Still having revolving door tryouts for a third effective LHRP as well. maybe going FISH….ing will help.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:30 am
Sargent Schuerholz to Corporal Wren!
Wren what is your sole purpose in life? To do what you tell me to Sargent Schuerholz!
Sarge! My God Wren that is the most intelligent answer I have ever heard, you must be some kinda Gashdang Genius!
Wren-Thank You Sargent Schuerholz!
There ya go, for all the debbie downers on Frank Wren! the man is doing a damn fine job, be patient lil grasshoppers, he will build it!
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:30 am
Gilmartin not rated all that highly (as much as I hate to say that about a Criminole), not sure if they would trade him or not.
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
12:30 am
“………DOB…..Long time reader, but first time commenting. I read the blog religiously and enjoy learning about other facets than just baseball…….” GCE
You may be the first person I’ve ever read who admits to being a religious fascist!
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
12:33 am
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:30 am
Gilmartin not rated all that highly (as much as I hate to say that about a Criminole), not sure if they would trade him or not.
nolie:
E-e-eh-h-h! Wrong. Thank you for playing! Didn’t you see the baseball thriller, “Desperately seeking Lefty?”
David O'Brien
January 4th, 2012
12:33 am
DOB – Are you for or against a possible Jones acquisition? He’s no Matt Kemp, but how many Matt Kemp’s are really out there? — Jbailz
I think Adam Jones would be a very good addition for the Braves, but not at any cost. Certainly not at the cost of Prado AND Hanson. Or Hanson and anything IMO. And obviously not for Prado, JJ and a good pitching prospect or two, as was once said to be Baltimore’s asking price.
But would I do it for Prado and a prospect? Only if the Braves had another deal lined up for a backup 3B and were reasonably confident of signing Jones long-term, not just having him for two seasons. And not for an elite pitching prospect along with Prado. A lesser prospect, perhaps.
Would I trade J.J. and a prospect for Jones? Probably so, given that J.J. has only two more years until free agency (Boras) and hasn’t stayed healthy the past two seasons, and given the uncertainty about that knee. But not a top pitching prospect AND J.J.
Prado and J.J. for Jones? I wouldn’t do that, not unless the Braves know something we don’t (health, etc.)
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
12:36 am
Well, DOB has a proper perspective regarding ADAM JONES. Love to have him, but only at the right price.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:37 am
The right price for Adam Jones??? JJ, Hoover, and Cunningham/Milligan
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
12:39 am
P’cola Brave
January 3rd, 2012
9:10 pm
Looks like Wilkin Ramirez signed a minor league contract w/ the Twins.
yes and WILKIN CASTILLO to the ROX. Only ‘45′ GOMEZ left alone with his sidearm at this point.
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
12:40 am
JoeBrave:
I could live with that.
theted
January 4th, 2012
12:42 am
Totally agree with what DOB has to say about Adam Jones.
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:42 am
what did ed lucas do
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:43 am
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:42 am
what did ed lucas do
NOTHING!
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:43 am
I saw Desperately Seeking Susan once but I don’t remember if she was a lefty……
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:44 am
so he is still with the Braves?
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:46 am
somewhere between Gweenett county and pearl miss. nolie.
trying to find out if that.218 ba last year was an abhorration
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:46 am
Jones would likely lose power moving here and even in a small park like camden The Bill James site has rated him as a bottom feeding defensive CFer the last three years.
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:48 am
just wondered Joe, I kinda figgered that at his age that poor of a season would have caused him to be dropped.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:48 am
problem with Bill James is if Adam Jones is acquired he would play LF. how would his numbers play there?
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:50 am
Not that I know of as yet (Lucas that is), seems to be another dumpster diamond waiting to be polished, but IMHO he will be a warm body for one of the Minors affiliates.
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:50 am
he would only play left for as long as Bourn is here, then to CF most likely.
He should play pretty good in LF, but that’s not likely where he would be except in ‘12
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:51 am
I have only one issue with the dumpster diamonds, why in the hell did the Braves sign Luis Durango? some kind of western fetish?
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:53 am
cause coach has been begging for him on here for years. Frankie threw him a bone…….
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:54 am
who’s to say Bourn would be gone? never put it past Wren to surprise….. Would he dare keep Jones in LF, re-sign Bourn, and remove Uggla from the equation after this season, and simply put Martin back at 2b? stranger things have happened.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:55 am
lol@ nolie
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:56 am
I tend to lean toward the Mad Scientist Wrenisms…sometimes you can figger him out, and then BAM out of nowhere!
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:56 am
Bourn will likely cost too much, especially if they added Jones, but even without that I would give good odds that he will not be a Brave again
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:58 am
nolie you are probably 100% right just saying with Wren you never know!
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:58 am
I don’t think of much of anything he has done as being all that unusual
nolie
January 4th, 2012
12:59 am
GG. TTFN y’all. take care
Odelay
January 4th, 2012
12:59 am
This Seth Smith nonsense needs to end. Just doesn’t make sense. I mean, if the Braves really wanted a bad defensive OFer with pop to platoon with Diaz, they’d have already signed Luke Scott and kept Prado as necessary insurance against Chipper getting hurt. End of story. What’s better: getting a platoon OFer that can’t field, or getting a platoon Ofer that can’t field and also lose your only real back-up to a 40-yr old 3B? I’ve got my money on the first option. I can’t wait for baseball to start so that this kind of mindless crap can stop.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
12:59 am
getting Uggla for scraps, that was a bit unusual, Bourn for even less? He does surprise on occasion, Lowe and that gawdy contract just 3 examples.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:01 am
Odelay, really Seth Smith would be the Melk Dud in the deal, Wheeler would be the target! playing devil’s advocate with nolie , but in reality, if Wren can’t pluck Adam Jones, or Lorenzo Cain, he has to have a replacement for Bourn, after this season!
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 4th, 2012
1:01 am
If I’m Dan Duquette I’m asking for Delgado and Prado.
If I’m Wren I say hell no.
Cannot believe for one second a guy like Duquette would be asking for either JJ or Hanson coming off injury. Gotta be Prado and a prospect. Or 2.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:04 am
If they want Delgado, then HELL NO! I have seen both at Gwinnett Delgado, and Teheran, let me tell ya Delgado in the long run will be a stud without issues, Teheran , scares me a bit.
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 4th, 2012
1:04 am
Agreed and Wren is a total idiot if he didn’t see the same thing we all saw.
Delgado is smooth, man.
Michael
January 4th, 2012
1:05 am
It will probably be Bourn as leadoff hitter next year and then Mycal Jones manning CF and leadoff until Lipka is ready, so we already have our CFs for the next 8-10+ years in our own backyard
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:05 am
Delgado ain’t skeered of squat! he will throw any pitch at any count, Teheran not so gutsy just yet. Just my observation.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:06 am
Mycal Jones??? really? I don’t know about that one, Lipka? converted 2b, I’d say he is 3 years away at least!
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:08 am
FYI Jones has a grand total of 97 games in CF in the minors, the rest….Shortstop.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:10 am
I would imagine Lipka needs to learn how to get on base before he is in any Major League discussion
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 4th, 2012
1:12 am
Don’t forget about Nick Ahmed.
ZWacky
January 4th, 2012
1:12 am
Lipka has looked pretty poot above Rookie Ball so far
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 4th, 2012
1:13 am
And with money coming off the books the replacement for Bourn should be….
MICHAEL BOURN. Lock him up.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:13 am
TABm I don’t know if the Braves would move Ahmed off of SS, maybe but I don’t think so.
ZWacky
January 4th, 2012
1:14 am
Just because they will have some money is no reason to overpay a player
ZWacky
January 4th, 2012
1:15 am
and he had a very mediocre two months after arriving in Atlanta
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 4th, 2012
1:17 am
No — lock him up now at a discount. Guy’s a Gold Glove CF who can run. Someone will pay him.
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
January 4th, 2012
1:18 am
And he had a mediocre 2 months because of two words — FREDI…..GONZALEZ….who didn’t demand that he run any time he pleased.
He stayed put too many times.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:19 am
Can anyone say Chris Denorfia? that is exactly who I see Wren going after.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
1:26 am
More like a trade involving Mike Minor, JJ Hoover, and Cory Gearrin for Denorfia, and James Darnell.
bravesfaninNashville
January 4th, 2012
1:47 am
Why don’t the Braves consider trading JJ for JJ Hardy. That would give us a proven SS with plus RH bat. He’d hit 24+ homers for the Braves as he did for Milwaukee and in Baltimore he hit 30Hrs last year. This would allow us to keep Prado as our LF and insurance for when not if Chipper misses time. This also allows us flexibility after Chipper retires or he has another knee injury that could end his season. We could move Hardy to 3B and have Pastornicky play SS if that fielded a better team than having Martin play 3b and have a weaker outfielder play LF. This move gives us the RH bat we need as well as a proven SS and we could always trade Hardy after next year if one of our prize SS prospects is ready. I’d rather do that than overpay for Adam Jones and then have him leave for Free Agency. Hardy is under contract for 3 more years. We get more problems solved with less cost in trade pieces than trading for Adam Jones. I don’t like the idea of trading Martin Prado to Colorado for Seth Smith. I say unless we get one of the coveted CF prospects the Rockies have no deal. I’d also rather trade JJ than Prado as JJ will leave for more money as soon as he becomes a Free Agent. We have a surplus of pitching but only one player as flexible as Martin. I say we keep him and trade JJ.
Ward
January 4th, 2012
1:58 am
Hello everyone! How’s the night going? Been doing a lot of thinking,and think Wren,should hold off on the trade talks. Keep Prado,and J.J. until the All Star Break,and if they don’t live up to potential? Than trade them.Give them a chance at least.That way Wren, won’t get burned for it.
Ward
January 4th, 2012
2:11 am
I would just sign SS,and Cody Ross.
Ward
January 4th, 2012
3:05 am
Theriot would be alright in my book ,as well as Cedeno.Cody Ross I like a lot,and will stick with that. Save our prospects,and do the right thing.
Ward
January 4th, 2012
3:42 am
Keep Prado for backing up Chipper,and end this trade talk non sense. If your not going to trade don’t then,and move on.If trade then cool,but I’ll be O.K. if there is no trade too.
Ward
January 4th, 2012
3:43 am
Hope soon we will know the full roster.Peace My Friends,and talk tomorrow.
nolie
January 4th, 2012
3:46 am
And he had a mediocre 2 months because of two words — FREDI…..GONZALEZ……ABomb
baloney. he dropped his OBP 40 points in just two months to 321. had nothing to do with his running.he actually ran at least as high a percent of the time here as he did there though he was much less successful at it.
I agree that he was pretty stinky hitter after leaving Texas. I’m way more concerned with how many outs he makes than how many bases he steals, cause OBP has a much higher positive correlation with runs scored than stolen bases do
N8
January 4th, 2012
4:02 am
“Hope soon we will know the full roster.Peace My Friends,and talk tomorrow.”
Why? With 4 months to go before opening day, what’s the hurry?
N8
January 4th, 2012
4:11 am
“problem with Bill James is if Adam Jones is acquired he would play LF. how would his numbers play there?”
I understand this argument long-term. But in the short term it’s about as meaningful as…. well…. nothing. I guess.
The only real question, should be if his numbers in LF player out better than what we currently have n the roster. Which is Prado.
To me, they are about the same, but he’s probably better defensively and add’s some speed. Then again, it also eliminates the “Chipper backup” plan. So I’m not sure if the upgrade in LF is significant enough (or an upgrade at all for that matter), to make up for the versatility of Prado.
But long-term, it covers Wren for WHEN Bourn leaves after 2012 (not if). So it makes a tad bit of sense from that angle. But I’m with others on this. Why be looking to 2013 Braves CF issue now?
Make the 25 man roster for 2012 better NOW, and use the money coming o ff the books after 2012 (including Bourn’s salary) to acquire another CF if need be.
This is where I wish MLB had their version of the “franchise tag”. I guess to an extent, offering and accepting arbitration is that process. Braves would be more inclined to say they’ll keep Bourn for “one more year” at 10 or so million, than to lock him up for 50-60 million. Then let him walk after 2013 if need be.
Oh well.
PD
January 4th, 2012
4:50 am
Buster Olney tweets
The numbers that really hurt Adam Jones’s trade value:
Year by year OBP ‘09-’11: .335, .325, .319. K’s: 93, 119, 113. BB’s:36, 23, 29.
That paints an ugly picture
kenny
January 4th, 2012
5:32 am
Anyone notice Carlos Quentin traded to the Padres for mid level prospects? Dropped the ball! Braves too cheap for his 7 mil price tag. Meanwhile back in Gotham City Heyward still has a hole in his swing big as the Titanic! All we will be left with is a platoon player from Colorado paired with Diaz, while we’d lose super Prado. Cheap Bast**ds!!
Webster
January 4th, 2012
6:50 am
Will people please get over Carlos Quentin. The guy misses more games than Chipper. the same people who want him will bre the same who say Wren is an idiot for trading for him.
Wren is a good GM. Have some trust in him.
Ray
January 4th, 2012
7:15 am
I personally like A Jones. I think he would be an upgrade and solve our LF void. Obviously the key on that is paying the right price. I have no problem with JJ in there as long as Prado, Delgado, Beachy, Teharan is not in the mix. The O’s GM wants to make sure he gets a great return, not just a good one. The O’s fans see what the Nat’s are doing and the O’s not going anywhere. DD cannot make his first big move a blunder.
Couch Tater
January 4th, 2012
7:35 am
Shoulda used Paula Deen’s recipe….
(AP) Long Liyuan, 49, died on Dec. 23 in wealthy Guangdong province after sharing a dish of slow boiled cat meat stew, a southern delicacy, with two men over a business lunch.
old man
January 4th, 2012
7:37 am
JJ for Jones, with maybe us throwing in a mid-prospect is OK. Far better than Prado for Smith. I like Jones in LF. JJ and Prado for Jones and Bell seems unbalanced. I would rather throw some rookie like Terdo or Simmons in at 3B if Chipper goes down. And I would really like to throw Prado in at 3B if that happens.
But overall, I think Jones has been the best option among the LF options we can afford via free agency or trade.
The Jai Miller deal really seems to be setting up a deal with the O’s.
old man
January 4th, 2012
7:45 am
If JJ is moved in a Jones deal, and we keep Prado, I would not rule out a Prado deal with the Rockies who seem to covet him greatly. If the prospect haul was enough, I could see doing that.
O.J.
January 4th, 2012
7:51 am
No way we trade Prado and JJ for Jones, just no fricking way. Frank surely has someone telling him that Jones numbers are eerily similar to Jeff Franceour’s.
Actually I take that back, if you look at Jeff’s numbers from last year and Adams from last year, Jeff lead in every category almost.
So why not trade for Jeff again?
chipper's ACL
January 4th, 2012
7:55 am
If a Rockies trade actually happened, the center piece would not be Smith. The Wheeler kid the Braves are demanding seems to be voming into his own as a legit power hitter with speed. Even the Blackmon kid from GT would not be bad to aquire but if Wren threw in a mid level minor league player Wheeler may be had. Adam Jones has talent but I can’t see shipping multiple players to Balt for him. There’s too many other good players that could be had via trade for JJ. We won’t land the talent SD did for Latos but 3 prospects may be reasonable, depending on the team. Also don’t be surprised if Hanson is mentioned at the break (if the Braves are not in contention) or at season’s end. The “potential” label needs to come off. Reality is to date he’s a little over a .500 pitcher. Terrible at holding on runners. He’s a 6 inning pitcher, has one complete game in his career, and we all know who his agent is.
N8
January 4th, 2012
8:00 am
“Anyone notice Carlos Quentin traded to the Padres for mid level prospects? Dropped the ball! Braves too cheap for his 7 mil price tag.” Kenny the genius
Last 3 years:
348 games (116 games per year average), 71 HR, 220 RBI (23 HR, 74 RBI per year)
.244/.335/.479/.813
At 7 million bucks? No thanks.
Prado’s last 3 years?
397 games (132 games per year). 39 HR, 172 RBI (13 HR, 57 RBI per year)… but it should be noted that 1381 of his 1744 plate appearances have been in the leadoff of 2-hole of the batting order.
.290/.333/.435/.768
Quentin clearly has the HR advantage. But Prado’s had 111 doubles and triples over that time, while Quentin has 72 doubles/triples.
Any GM that would be interested in moving Prado’s versatility and lower cost to take on the injury prone Quentin and his 7 million dollars should be fired on the spot.
Now if you’re suggesting that the Braves should have given up other prospects to get him, (or perhaps Jurrjens), and KEEP Prado around as a 4th outfielder utility guy? I could maybe get on board with that.
But for the prospects it likely would have cost us to get Quentin (don’t use the Padres as an example – GM’s will ask for more from the Braves know that we’re desperate and what we have to offer), I’m glad Wren passed on him.
Signing a guy like JD Drew would probably make as much or more sense, then giving up players for Quentin.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
8:24 am
bravesfaninNashville
January 4th, 2012
1:47 am
Why don’t the Braves consider trading JJ for JJ Hardy.
JJ Hardy IS NOT AVAILABLE! That is why.
Webster
January 4th, 2012
8:26 am
San Diego has given up on Kyle Banks. If Wren could get him got a low end prospect would anyone do it? The guy has huge power but is prone to the K. Is it worth a chance?
JRW
January 4th, 2012
8:46 am
Efrim – P’Cola, you need to keep in mind he’s hit in a really good hitters park…..Turner Field is going to sap some of his power, I would think – as Camden Yards is a damn good hitters park. Now, I think the move away from really good pitching in the AL East may help him, but I don’t think it’ll offset the move to a much more fair park.
***************************************************************************************
And the NL East’s pitching is bad?
74bravesjersey
January 4th, 2012
8:56 am
Can anybody dig up John scherholz’s(I stand corrected for mispell of last name)letter to the fans after the melt down; If so, can someone print it up here?
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
8:59 am
Who’s asking price is more steep?
A) The Braves for Jair Jurrjens: 3 to 4 young players/prospects
B) Scott Boras for Edwin Jackson: 5 years, $80M+
__________ERA__WHIP_H/9_HR/9_SO/BB
Jurrjens 3.40 1.284 8.5 00.7 01.98
Jackson_ 4.46 1.476 9.6 01.0 01.82
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:03 am
Would I trade J.J. and a prospect for Jones? Probably so, given that J.J. has only two more years until free agency (Boras) and hasn’t stayed healthy the past two seasons, and given the uncertainty about that knee. But not a top pitching prospect AND J.J.
Adam Jones also only has two years of control left before free agency. I don’t think it’s necessary to add anything to Jurrjens in order to acquire Jones, if we’re just talking how far the Braves should go. It’s more hype with him being a former top prospect – he hasn’t lived up to expectations.
McFann O O o
January 4th, 2012
9:04 am
Steve McCann is entering the decline years for catchers
Is not!!…
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:05 am
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
@ @BnMLover Oh, please. Nobody is saying he is not a good player, but teams won’t give up stud pitcher for hitter with .320 obp. Simple fact.
That was in response to an Orioles fan after Bust tweeted this:
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The numbers that really hurt Adam Jones’s trade value: Year by year OBP ‘09-’11: .335, .325, .319. K’s: 93, 119, 113. BB’s:36, 23, 29.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:09 am
No wonder Astros have interest in bringing in Keith Law. They are hiring a Director of Division Sciences. Maybe all orgs have this, with a less fancier name, however Houston fans have to like the way Luhnow is doing business to date.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/01/03/astros-go-data-heavy-with-addition-of-director-of-decision-sciences/
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:11 am
Also, a couple things from Buster’s blog:
Dan Connelly examines the Baltimore Orioles’ dilemma with marketing Adam Jones.
Here’s the bottom line: Unless his OPS and offensive production changes dramatically, Jones’ value in the trade market will go down markedly every year before he becomes eligible for free agency. He is a respected talent, but rival scouts do have questions about his approach at the plate. If he were to have a breakout year in 2012, the Orioles could get the impact-type of pitcher for him that they seek.
Jones: OBP/BB/K
2009: .335/36/93
2010: .325/23/119
2011: .319/29/113
And this regarding the Yankees, which is a smart play, imo:
The New York Yankees are setting their sights on the free-agent class of next fall, writes Tyler Kepner.
They’re hanging onto the resources until they can go after the right pitcher — a strategy that worked in the year they landed CC Sabathia, and one that didn’t pay off in the year that Cliff Lee went into free agency.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:12 am
Re: my 9:09am, it’s Decision Sciences.
#DONTTRADEPRADO
January 4th, 2012
9:14 am
DONT TRADE PRADO!!!!!!! SETH SMITH IS NOT THAT GOOD!!!!!! Seriously, Prado has better career numbers than Smith, and Smith has played at Coors Field. Just sign Cody Ross and Ryan Theriot (or some other SS)
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:14 am
Who’s asking price is more steep?
Both are incredibly steep for two flawed pitchers. But one has been far more durable than the other – and that matters. I think it’s a case by case basis for teams…..however, I think ultimately, Jackson signs for four years, 48 million – or around that number.
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
9:16 am
Efrim – Does that mean he would be the in house metrics expert? (serious question…just wondering).
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:16 am
If he were to have a breakout year in 2012, the Orioles could get the impact-type of pitcher for him that they seek.
And I disagree with Buster’s last point. Jones has one year of control after 2012, so the price in prospects is going to go way down, especially since draft pick compensation is less of given than it was previously.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:20 am
raleighbravefan, I think it’s just the guy who makes sure they have every possible piece of information gathered so that they can make the best baseball decision for everything(trades, injuries, arbitration, minor leagues, draft, etc.) Checks and Balances dude, or something like that? I think….
CB
January 4th, 2012
9:20 am
Jurrjens stays healthy and productive the next two years and he might draw those type of numbers when he hits free agency. I would do a JJ deal for Jones if we kept Prado,otherwise no.
bobby
January 4th, 2012
9:21 am
From what i read about the O’s is that they want Hanson not Jurrjens so if you were Wren would u offer Hanson maybe Prado and Hoover for Jones,but if that don’t work how bout signing Maggilo and platoon him with Hinske or someone else?
CB
January 4th, 2012
9:22 am
I guess the Astros would IBKL if they continue to lose.
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
9:23 am
Efrim – Thanks. Sounds like something the Braves could benefit from…if they don’t already have it covered. My guess is a staff gathers this info, but wheather anyone puts it together and coordinates may be another matter.
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
9:24 am
bobby – No! Hell NO!
McFann O O o
January 4th, 2012
9:25 am
I love this:
Residents say hundreds of black turkey vultures have invaded their south Georgia neighborhood.
“Black Turkey Vultures”? All Turkey Vultures are black! (Well, unless there are albino ones…) And if they mean the birds have black heads, then they’re not Turkey Vultures, they’re Black Vultures…
Wish they had a photo of the birds to go with the story…
Jefferson
January 4th, 2012
9:25 am
Jair for Hardy & Adam Jones! Problem solved
haha
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:26 am
Also, on Edwin Jackson:
2009-2011: 96 starts, 623 IP, 639 hits, 3.96 ERA, 108 ERA+, 64 HR, 210/490 BB/K, 0.9 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 7.1 K/9, 2.33 SO/BB ratio
He’s been better the last three years and has averaged 32 starts and 208 innings.
Patrick
January 4th, 2012
9:26 am
DOB, you are looking forward to the Portlandia season 2 premier?
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
9:27 am
I vote for signing someone like Cody Ross, and a backup SS, and keeping JJ and Prado. Don’t even need ALL of our guys to be healthy and return to norm, as long as several do (McCann excepted…we need him 100%).
Mark Duncan
January 4th, 2012
9:28 am
I want to apologize to Frank Wren for my posting last night indicating he had been duped by a caller from a Baltimore radio station into discussing a player who didn’t exist. I was telling a buddy about my post who is a big Oriole fan who told me that the Baltimore Gm at the time was Syd Thrift not Wren. My mistake. Still the point of my post remains the same. Don’t trade Prado!
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:28 am
so if you were Wren would u offer Hanson maybe Prado and Hoover for Jones
Adam Jones isn’t worth Hanson. Him and their best prospect probably isn’t worth Hanson. Prado and Hoover for Jones? Maybe – however Prado has shown he is the better hitter in recent years, so I’d pass on that. Jones just isn’t that good.
McFann O O o
January 4th, 2012
9:32 am
Raleighbrave Don’t even need ALL of our guys to be healthy and return to norm, as long as several do (McCann excepted…we need him 100%).
No pressure at all!…
ATL J
January 4th, 2012
9:36 am
Prado?? REALLY?? I mean, I’ve heard the rumors for weeks… but I can’t believe they’re actually considering this. I know financially it may make sense bc baseball is a business, but Prado is a huge asset to the Braves… not to mention a clubhouse guy, walk-off winner, and still very young.
I think this one is really going to upset the fans, just saying….
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
9:37 am
Both are incredibly steep for two flawed pitchers. But one has been far more durable than the other – and that matters
Well it’s a fair point to discuss what you expect the price to be, but considering the question was on asking price and not expected final price, my conclusion is a team would feel it more from locking up Edwin for $80M+ over five years. Durability is a question, but it’s a commitment of 1 year with a potential for longer for a mid to top rotation pitcher if he doesn’t work out. Edwin is a 5 year unmovable contract for a back end starter. You’re stuck with that guy putting runners all over the bases and tossing meat right down the middle for five years, every fifth day at best. At worst you’ll still be paying him for five years while he gets passed around the majors like a white collar criminal in prison.
Random
January 4th, 2012
9:43 am
The A Bomb (January 4th, 2012 1:13 am): “And with money coming off the books the replacement for Bourn should be….
“MICHAEL BOURN. Lock him up.”
The A Bomb (January 4th, 2012 1:17 am): “No — lock him up now at a discount. Guy’s a Gold Glove CF who can run. Someone will pay him.”
The Braves will never “lock up” Bourn at a discount. Even if they “lock him up” now, it will be at a premium.
If they “lock him up” later, it will be at an even higher premium.
I agree that if the Braves let him “test the waters” as a free agent, they will simply not be able to afford him. At all. Period. The end.
So, yeah, maybe the Braves should make the valiant effort to “lock” Bourn up now — but it will definitely NOT be at a discount. And they know that.
And so should you.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
9:44 am
Durability is a question, but it’s a commitment of 1 year with a potential for longer for a mid to top rotation pitcher if he doesn’t work out. Edwin is a 5 year unmovable contract for a back end starter.
Since we don’t know what the prospects/young players are like in the discussion, then it’s hard to figure which is more steep. For a team like the Yankees – who hang around 200 million in payroll, it may make more sense to sign him to a five year deal than to trade Jesus Montero, Manny Banuelos, and Mason Williams to Atlanta for two years of Jair Jurrjens. But again, since we have no clue as to the prospects being discussed, it’s hard to say which is more steep.
David O'Brien
January 4th, 2012
10:00 am
Random: Well said re: Bourn at 9:43 a.m.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:05 am
Maybe Matt Lipka will go nuts this year in CF and make the Braves think he may be ready in 2014, so they’ll sign a stop gap centerfielder for 2013…..
….yeah, it’s a long shot.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:07 am
Also pretty telling about CF Mycal Jones that they are rumored to want a CF prospect through trade to replace Bourn in 2013. I never thought Jones was much more of a utility player anyway. Todd Cunningham too.
Bat Masterson
January 4th, 2012
10:09 am
And he had a mediocre 2 months because of two words — FREDI…..GONZALEZ….who didn’t demand that he run any time he pleased.
He stayed put too many times. _ The A Bomb – OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
Bourn stole 22 bases, in 53 games, for the Braves. Extrapolate that to a full season and you get 66.
He stole 39 in 105 games for the Astros, no discernible difference.
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
10:12 am
McFann – Ross is a great backup…We do need McCann 100%, but not 100% of the time.
Gary O
January 4th, 2012
10:14 am
DOB,
I know that you enjoy riding your motorcycle, but do you have a temperature rule? For example, given the temperature yesterday and today, is it too cold for you to ride?
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
10:15 am
Bat – Agreed. Not EVERYTHING is Fredi’s fault, no matter what one thinks of him.
Arkansas Transplant
January 4th, 2012
10:22 am
I’d like to know if Montero wouldn’t be able to play the outfield. Maybe the Braves could swing a trade of JJ and possibly a prospect for Montero and Gardner or Nunez. That would solve depth issues and utility issues. Between Gardner splitting time at all 3 outfield positions, Montero serving as depth at either LF or C in case of injury and Nunez serving as a backup for SS.
McFann O O o
January 4th, 2012
10:25 am
raleighbrave—
Ross? Yes, I’ve heard he’s pretty good…
Yeah, I was just kidding ’cause you said we need BMac to be 100%—after the first couple months, for a catcher that’s just kinda tricky…
Arkansas Transplant
January 4th, 2012
10:26 am
I’d much rather see us get a return of Montero (if they felt he could play LF) and Nunez. Otherwise, if Montero is strictly either a C or DH then sub Gardner in his place. It would give us a scary fast 1 – 2 punch at the top of the lineup between Bourn and Gardner, not to mention probably the best defensive outfield in the majors.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:26 am
AT, I was more just using them as an example. I think some teams would rather dump dollars into free agent starting pitching than to part with 3-4 prospects/young players. Depends on the organization’s salary structure and minor league depth.
RC
January 4th, 2012
10:28 am
Efrim,
My understanding w/ Mycal Jones was that they were trying to develop him as a UTIL guy, sort of like a homegrown Omar Infante.
Arkansas Transplant
January 4th, 2012
10:30 am
Efrim, I would think that that would be a pretty reasonable price for JJ. I wouldn’t be totally against including a prospect to get it done if need be either.
DAP
January 4th, 2012
10:33 am
ray I personally like A Jones. I think he would be an upgrade and solve our LF void
what void in LF? we have no void.
chipper’s ACL The “potential” label needs to come off. Reality is to date he’s a little over a .500 pitcher. Terrible at holding on runners. He’s a 6 inning pitcher, has one complete game in his career, and we all know who his agent is.
folks really under value tommy hanson. he was hurt this year, but he is a pitcher that compares favorably to another pitcher people seem to swoon over. david price. hanson is actually slighty better than david price…but hanson gets slammed like hes an underachiever or something. c’mon people.
Arkansas Transplant
January 4th, 2012
10:33 am
Efrim, sorry I didn’t even see that you mentioned JJ to the Yanks earlier. I had mentioned about a month ago that a JJ to the Yanks for a return that would include Montero and either Gardner or Nunez could help both teams next season. I doubt they move one of their top pitching prospects to get a deal done.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:36 am
AT, I don’t think they would move either Montero, Banuelos or Betances for Jurrjens. If they aren’t willing to do it for Garza and weren’t for Gio…..Also, I doubt Cashman wants to move Mason Williams either. Potential stud, that kid.
RC, that makes sense. He’s got some athletic ability and seems to be taking more walks. However he’s pretty damn old for his level. Turns 25 in May of this year, and it’ll be his first trip to Triple-A. We’ll need some new bench pieces in 2013, so that would be a nice role for him.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:38 am
Hanson is a #1 starter when healthy, imo. Best pitcher in the org. A real shame if his shoulder doesn’t hold up. Hurts the Braves future…
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:42 am
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: Talks between #Orioles, #Braves over A. Jones are “nowhere.” Braves will not trade one of top four young SPs for Jones. MORE #MLB
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Taking Jurrjens, Prado makes no sense for #Orioles unless they can get one of those four. Talks fluid, but no current momentum. #Braves #MLB
Couch Tater
January 4th, 2012
10:44 am
Efrim – I found it interesting, the Astros hired Stephanie Wilka. She worked for the Dodgers…for less than her predecessor. About $300,000 less.
…It made the NY Times.
…She’s an attorney and a Harvard grad. haha
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:45 am
Makes sense. Jones isn’t worth one of the Big 4(Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor, Delgado) and I agree that Jurrjens/Prado don’t make sense in exchange for Adam Jones. If they are trading Jones, it should be for prospects.
Bat Masterson
January 4th, 2012
10:45 am
hanson is actually slighty better than david price…but hanson gets slammed like hes an underachiever or something. c’mon people. _ DAP
No kidding! I guess its because he’s a Braves pitcher. And “a little over .500 pitcher”?
That’s just crazy. The year before last give him just decent run support and he wins 20 games. Plus if he’s no big deal who gives a rat’s ass who his agent is.
He does suck at keeping runners close. Gotta give him that.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 4th, 2012
10:46 am
We got Luis Durango
BOOM!
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:46 am
Couch Tater, I saw that. Funny stuff.
Jimmy
January 4th, 2012
10:46 am
Everyone is looking at Baltimore and A Jones.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Wren landed someone who is off the current radar screen.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:47 am
We got Luis Durango
BOOM!
Just another ordinary day dominating this blog for Coach.
DAP
January 4th, 2012
10:49 am
bat He does suck at keeping runners close. Gotta give him that.
good thing is, he doesnt allow many baserunners. fewer than david price, over their careers. hanson has a 1.175 WHIP for his career. thats pretty good.
Random
January 4th, 2012
10:50 am
David O’Brien (January 4th, 2012 10:00 am): “Well said re: Bourn at 9:43 a.m.”
Thanks, DOB.
I love you, man.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:50 am
I wouldn’t be suprised if Wren landed someone who is off the current radar screen.
I know there is still a little less than 7 weeks until pitchers and catchers report, but how many big trades occur in January? I suppose it all depends on the development of the free agent/trade market, but as the days go by, the more likely it seems Jurrjens and Prado will play 2012 in Atlanta.
Bat Masterson
January 4th, 2012
10:51 am
DAP_
Yeah, but when does they steal on him at will. Not they are likely to score anyway, but it makes McFann mad.
Sopheee
January 4th, 2012
10:52 am
McFann -
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/us/2012/01/03/ga-black-turkey-vultures-walb.walb
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
10:52 am
hanson has a 1.175 WHIP for his career. thats pretty good.
Especially for a starter.
b
January 4th, 2012
10:56 am
Putting people on the trading block(Prado) because of salary arbitration makes me sick.
Are we going to become the new Oakland A’s?
If Prado is traded, the heart of the team, fans should boycott the Braves.
Then I hope we go back to the 70’s and 80’s and draw around a million fans per season.
Disgusting!
And no one from the Braves, as far as I know, will say why they dumped on Constanza last year.
He should play 140 plus games. Give him a chance.
DAP
January 4th, 2012
10:58 am
mcfann, sounds like the news story describes them as black OR turkey vultures. they dont know what they are.
JoeBrave
January 4th, 2012
11:03 am
B.really? Wow!
Jimmy
January 4th, 2012
11:04 am
In the video, I saw both Turkey (red head) and Black (black head) buzzards. The Turkey has a very keen eye and smell and can find dead animals fairly easy. That’s when the Black buzzards move in and try to run them off.
DAP
January 4th, 2012
11:04 am
b And no one from the Braves, as far as I know, will say why they dumped on Constanza last year.
He should play 140 plus games. Give him a chance.
starting around august 21st, constanza hit .162/.162/.162 with a .324 OPS. bourne was here playing, prado was playing, and heyward from the same time was OPSing around .717 (bad, but better than georgie)
so, does someone from the braves really need to exaplin to you why he stopped playing as much? its pretty obvious, right?
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
11:05 am
“All right Frankie!” Bloodsport.
“We had a [blog] waiting.” Stripes
“A-a-a-a-g-g-g-h-h-h! Tension breaker. Had to be done.” Summer School.
Come on FRANK. The suspense is driving us mad.
“Ya’ gotta’ let me know now, What’s it gonna’ be……boy” Thalia
Ray
January 4th, 2012
11:06 am
@DAP, you are right, technically we do not have a void in LF. Do we need an upgrade, I think so. I don’t see the O’s and the Braves coming up with a deal. Mainly because DD is not going to give up their biggest name in a deal unless he is the clear cut winner in the deal. Duquette cannot afford from a public opinion standpoint to let AJ go for a pretty good deal. It will have to be a great deal for the O’s. Plus thats the only way Angelos will possibly sign off on it.
Jimmy
January 4th, 2012
11:08 am
Effrim -I don’t think Wren is serious about Jones. The price is too high and his production is down (K’s are up) in the last threee seasons.
If anything is in the works, I feel it is behind the curtains until announced.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
11:09 am
For a team like the Yankees … But again, since we have no clue as to the prospects being discussed, it’s hard to say which is more steep.
For a team like the Yankees neither is really “steep” as they’ve shown in the past they can buy their way out of any mistake.
From where I’m sitting, Jurrjens is easily the better pitcher. easily. He has a floor higher than Edwin’s ceiling. I don’t think his knee issue is as big of a concern as many are making it out to be. (Rivals naturally make it to be a big deal in attempt to drive down the price.) To me, looking at those two and knowing the history of Lowe, Burnett, etc. Edwin at $80M+ is a worse deal than trading for Jurrjens. There’s no upside with Edwin.
RC
January 4th, 2012
11:11 am
Efrim,
Jones is old for his level, but I took that to be primarily due to the fact they’ve switched his position 3 or 4 times, before finally deciding he should play everywhere and learn to be a utilty guy. Probably made that decision due to what the org views as his low ceiling….they can get more value out of having him as a cheap bench piece.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
11:13 am
but as the days go by, the more likely it seems Jurrjens and Prado will play 2012 in Atlanta.
True. As the days go by the more it seems the phrases like “upgrade the outfield offense”, “right handed corner power bat”, “slight increase in payroll”, and many others were… nothing. Wren could have just made farting noise with his hand and it would have carried the same impact and meaning.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
11:15 am
hanson has a 1.175 WHIP for his career. thats pretty good.
Especially for a starter.
Certainly hope his should is fine and he hasn’t Prior-ed/Avery-ed on us.
DAP
January 4th, 2012
11:15 am
ray you are right, technically we do not have a void in LF. Do we need an upgrade, I think so
but the O’s dont have an upgrade to offer. that convo is a waste of time.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:17 am
As the days go by the more it seems the phrases like “upgrade the outfield offense”, “right handed corner power bat”, “slight increase in payroll”, and many others were… nothing.
You were pretty big on taking those things to heart. I never really was. Not everything our GM says is going to happen.
CB
January 4th, 2012
11:19 am
Random and DOB being cordial – will the Earth stand still?
Ray
January 4th, 2012
11:20 am
DAP, they don’t have an upgrade for the price they are asking. But Jones would be an upgrade for the Braves in LF if they could get him for the right price. And I just won’t comment on the convo is a waste of time. Not worth the time.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:22 am
I don’t think his knee issue is as big of a concern as many are making it out to be. (Rivals naturally make it to be a big deal in attempt to drive down the price.)
I don’t know. I think durability is pretty important, and he hasn’t made many starts the last two seasons. Jackson being able to take the ball every fifth day is pretty valuable. Can’t say the same for Jurrjens. And Jackson has been a better pitcher the last three seasons than he was earlier in his career with the Rays, that’s for sure.
Ray
January 4th, 2012
11:22 am
Efrim, you are correct. All of our comments on moves are simple guesses. We can somewhat put pieces together with the rumors etc. But none of us have access to the details of any of the conversations that take place.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:24 am
Jones would be an upgrade defensively, but I don’t believe he would be an upgrade with the bat. Prado has had a better four years than Jones has.
richbrave
January 4th, 2012
11:24 am
WINTER BALL
AUSTRALIA – regular season
1B MATT KENNELLY [.274 BA] 1-5.
DOMINICA – playoofs
LICEY TIGERS
3B DONEL LINARES [.143 BA] 1-4, 1 RBI [2].
C-MART [8.10 ERA] 0.2 IP, 1 BB, 2 BF, 1 GO/ 0 AO.
PUERTO RICO
CAROLINA GIANTS – end of regular season
RF BRAIHIAM MALDONADO [.160 BA] 1-4, 2 SO.
VENEZUELA – playoffs
ANTOATEGUI INDIANS
No BRAVES played.
ZULIA EAGLES
1B ERNESTO MEJIA [.000 BA] 0-4. 2 SO. His SO-BB ratio is slowly worsening. Somebody has found a hole in his swing. Prolly pressing thinking about getting to the ML’s.
Don
January 4th, 2012
11:28 am
Ordinarly you NEVER trade great pitching – But the Braves situation is not ordinary for 2 reasons:
((1) First of all, these young starters who had already shown they were going to be great – may never return to being great – when they have already been injured and are coming off injuries.
(2) And most significant of all — since Leo left as Pitching Coach 6 or 7 years ago – of all the large number of Starting Pitchers we have had, almost EVERY ONE has become INJURED.
Thus, IF ALL OF OUR STARTING PITCHERS ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE INJURED, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE – IF YOU TRADE THEM AWAY.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:29 am
Also, at this point, trading Jurrjens for prospects and using the money to “upgrade” the offense doesn’t really make sense. What free agents are out there? None that make it worth trading Jurrjens to free up cash. I suppose we can then trade prospects for a bat, however I;m not sure that makes a ton of sense. Braves have around 87 million in committments for 2012. They had a 91 million dollar payroll in 2011, so trading Jurrjens 5 million+ salary would give them near 10 million to spend…..on what exactly?
Lew
January 4th, 2012
11:30 am
Don – Were you dropped on your head as a child by a pitching coach?
Ray
January 4th, 2012
11:30 am
My only point about Adam Jones is he would be an upgrade defensively in LF but I think with his presence he would help Prado as well. Those days when Chipper or Jones or Bourn need some time off, he would be extremely valuable. Prado could get his 20-25 bats a week.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:32 am
Baseball America – New York Yankees Top 10 prospects
1. Jesus Montero, c
2. Manny Banuelos, lhp
3. Dellin Betances, rhp
4. Gary Sanchez, c
5. Mason Williams, of
6. Dante Bichette, 3b
7. Ravel Santana, of
8. Austin Romine, c
9. J.R. Murphy, c/3b
10. Slade Heathcott, of
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
11:34 am
Most of the complaining about Wren is due to the fact that those people are relying on rumor, and assuming those rumors are true. Has there been an actual offer for a deal that is in the best interest of the Braves? NONE OF US KNOWS. Appearantly not, in the view of Wren.
NO DEAL IS MUCH BETTER THAN A BAD DEAL…WHEATHER A TRADE, OR A FA SIGNING…and you cannot ignore the budget constraints, no matter how much you hate them. Some moves will be made, but it may not happen until near end of ST. We don’t play real games until April.
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
11:36 am
Lew – I figure McDowell must have insulted his wife…Of course being married to him is insult enough.
Ray
January 4th, 2012
11:36 am
Before, anyone starts jumping on Dante Bichette as part of a trade. the report on him is he has a big hole in his swing and they have a concern whether or not he can handle higher level pitching. He apparently is not his dad’s hitter.
Random
January 4th, 2012
11:38 am
b (January 4th, 2012 10:56 am): “Putting people on the trading block(Prado) because of salary arbitration makes me sick.
Are we going to become the new Oakland A’s?
If Prado is traded, the heart of the team, fans should boycott the Braves.”
Prado is “the heart of the team”???
What about Chipper Jones?
What about Brian McCann?
What about Tim Hudson?
What about Tommy Hanson, David Ross, Matt Diaz, Jason Heyward or Freddie Freeman???
“Heart of the team”, my ass.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:40 am
Yeah, Bichette, Jr. has some serious holes as a prospect. List drops off after Mason Williams.
74bravesjersey
January 4th, 2012
11:41 am
“B” I’m sorta w/ you, I thought costanza brought nice energy when he was in there, I wish I was a good stats guy, I just looked at costanza’s stats in only 42g’s hitting .303 aint to shabby. Jason heyward (I’m hoping can come through His stats career wise 270g’s played 221k’s. What counts for me is heart,a hunger,( he loved lickin’ that wood) a passion, clutch performance. I’m sure Jason will get through hopefully injury free, but little man jose is a hustler.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:41 am
“Heart of the team”, my ass.
Hah! So true.
raleighbravefan
January 4th, 2012
11:41 am
b – We all love Prado….but Wren must do whatever he feels improves the Braves…That’s his job (BTW, we all loved Infante as well…life goes on).
You are welcome to boycott whatever you wish, including this blog.
heymmered
January 4th, 2012
11:45 am
I really hope Constanza’s inability to take a walk is really hurting him. Someone with that kind of speed needs to be on base.
heymmered
January 4th, 2012
11:45 am
I meant to say I really hope he works on his plate discipline.
RoyU
January 4th, 2012
11:46 am
Trade any and all who have Scott Borass as an agent. Why??? Because if they are any good, the Braves will lose them anyhow! Knowing Borass was his agent, Bourne never should have been traded for in the first place. Chipper is a great person and Braves’ fans have been blessed to have him. However, everyone would be better off if he could be aDH in an american league team where he would spend much less time being disabled one way or another. The same lame thinking that would consider getting rid of Prado will eventually bring the Braves down even further than they have gone in the past 6-7 years. Yes, we have talent, some on the field and some on the farm. Unfortunately we have little in the areas of management and ownership!!!
Jack Lill
January 4th, 2012
11:48 am
They willl not do anything as long as they have Wrem screwing around. They should fire hin. The Braves now are at best a forth place club. He has one of the top center fielders in the game ans he has made no effort to sign him. Wren needs to go
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
11:50 am
Ah, the crazies are in full gear this morning….
DAP
January 4th, 2012
11:53 am
ray they don’t have an upgrade for the price they are asking. But Jones would be an upgrade for the Braves in LF if they could get him for the right price
no, they dont have a player better than the one weve got, period.
i take that back. jj hardy would be a nice pickup. as far as the outfield goes, prado is better than jones.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
11:57 am
Chipper should be traded to an AL team so he can DH.
Prado can be our SS.
Sign Bourn for a discount while they still can.
WOW. These sort of statements fall in the same category. Engage scroll button.
CB
January 4th, 2012
11:57 am
I wonder what it would take to pry Hardy away from Orioles? He would interest me much more than Jones.
Murph
January 4th, 2012
11:57 am
Is Minor really considered one of the “Big 4″ for the Braves? The guy pitched ok towards the end of the season last year, but I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him if it improved the offense. Wouldn’t hesitate a bit.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
11:59 am
DAP
Agreed, that Prado is better than Jones. At least in my book. The proof is in the OPS pudding!
Jimmy
January 4th, 2012
11:59 am
I thought school was back in?
Can’t tell by some of these post. Worse than in-game.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
12:01 pm
You were pretty big on taking those things to heart. I never really was. Not everything our GM says is going to happen.
Yes. I was big on the offense being addressed and there being payroll flexibility. At a minimum I believed Wren, that something would be done. I trusted the GM would not foolishly think that the calendar flipping would suddenly take an 85 expected-win team into the post season. Perhaps he knew it was a shoe-in that 2012 would have the expanded gimp bracket to allow more losers a chance at the playoffs.
Still though, of everything he said, the only thing that has come to fruition is him sending Lowe away. 1 thing. Gotta think even with your skepticism of all things Wren, you expected a bit more than that. The teams offense was atrocious last year and nothing has been done to address that. Every veteran in the rotation is injured or coming off surgery. Apparently one of them is so badly mauled by the game he isn’t worth more than a non-tender platoon bench player. I don’t see the Braves, as currently constructed, as “championship” caliber. However, I will concede that with the expanded playoffs they could be “contenders” but merely because the bar has been lowered.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 4th, 2012
12:02 pm
Manny Ramirez in LF….
BOOM!
O.J.
January 4th, 2012
12:03 pm
How about Minor and Prado for Jones?
Arkansas Transplant
January 4th, 2012
12:04 pm
Murph, long time no read. How was Christmas and New Year’s? Did you get all of the lipstick removed? That was a pretty funny picture.
Arkansas Transplant
January 4th, 2012
12:05 pm
JJ to the yanks for Montero and Nunez. Montero to LF and Nunez to the bench as a SS backup.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
12:05 pm
Is Minor really considered one of the “Big 4″ for the Braves?
Yes, absolutely. Although the Braves really have a “Big 7″ – Hanson, Beachy, Minor, Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado and Gilmartin.
old man
January 4th, 2012
12:08 pm
Between Jurrjens and Minor I would rather have Minor.
unbelievable
January 4th, 2012
12:08 pm
OJ – No…Jones inst worth a cost controlled big league starter, he’s never put an .800OPS. He doesnt improve our offense over Prado and we lose versatility and a starter. Just doesnt make sense.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
12:10 pm
Still though, of everything he said, the only thing that has come to fruition is him sending Lowe away. 1 thing. Gotta think even with your skepticism of all things Wren, you expected a bit more than that.
My biggest concern right now is that when Chipper Jones is out of the lineup(happens often), Jose Constanza is our 4th outfielder and if/when Tyler Pasotrnicky stuggles because he is really young as a rookie, minor league free agent Drew Sutton is our SS. Wren is making it seem like these holes can be filled during Spring Training, however I was hoping for a bit more in both these areas. I was hoping for a veteran starting SS with Pastornicky still in Gwinnett. I was also hoping for an outfielder who many felt could step in for Heyward if he continued to struggle and also play LF with not too much of a drop off if Chipper went down. None of these things have happened, so I am dissappointed there. I was just never expecting a “big bat” in a corner like Nick Swisher, Carlos Quentin, etc. Never expected that sort of an acquisition.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
12:11 pm
Folks that think Adam Jones is actually a better hitter than Martin Prado should take a look at their history.
And we want to ADD a pitcher with Martin to get a lesser hitter?? I am baffled? 8 more HR’s per year is not worth the decrease in OBP.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
12:12 pm
I’d be pretty happy to keep Jurrjens and Prado, sign Cody Ross and Ronny Cedeno and to go to battle in April. I think that’s a pretty good team.
And as for the 2nd Wild Card team – I’ve read that is most likely to be installed in 2013 and not this upcoming season.
Jimmy
January 4th, 2012
12:14 pm
I sign on with Effrin and DS1!
Not a feasible trade. I think it is a distraction tactic.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
12:16 pm
For fun, my NFL Wild Card weekend picks: Houston over Cincinnati, New Orleans over Detroit, New York over Atlanta, and Pittsburgh over Denver.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
12:18 pm
Efrim
I think Cody Ross is still the best FA answer, but my guess is that FW is more interested in a trade.
But if Ross’ salary demands come down to 6-7 million for 2 years, we should pull the trigger.
I think the Adam Jones talk is all smoke and mirrors. I cannot see FW dealing Prado for him. Maybe Jurrjens and a minor leaguer.
10-Paul
You really only have 2 slots to improve the offense. LF and SS. And do you really think you can do better than Prado? Unless we go for a guy like McCutchen, most of the other suspects are lesser players than Marteen.
And with our limited payroll, I really don’t expect much of a SS upgrade over Pastornicky.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
12:20 pm
I’d be OK with Ross and Cedeno, but I expect that we will get neither of them.
Efrim
January 4th, 2012
12:22 pm
I think Cody Ross is still the best FA answer, but my guess is that FW is more interested in a trade.
Agreed. At some point, a trade will be made. I hope….
You really only have 2 slots to improve the offense. LF and SS.
I don’t think TenneseePaul thinks in these terms. I think he wants a outfielder, period. And if that outfielder plays in RF over Heyward, then that’s okay as long as it upgrades the offense. I could be completely wrong.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
12:35 pm
And to be honest, it will be hard to improve at LF without making a big IMcCutchen type player) splash.
But I would have to agree with 10Paul that to add a significant OF’er would be a huge move. Now the question is this: Who decides what qualifies as significant? I guess that’d be FW.
I am OK with Prado moving to 3B when Chipper sits, but we need better than Constanza to fill that void. Maybe Matty Diaz is OK against lefties, but this is where Seth Smith would fit in nicely.
And he could cover RF if Heyward goes down for any reason.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 4th, 2012
12:36 pm
This A.Jones talk is sounding more and more like one of those things that will be nothing more than some little rumor that will be buried in another offseason history book.
Nothing will come out of this. We’re being strung along is all.
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
12:40 pm
Efrim: I was just never expecting a “big bat” in a corner like Nick Swisher, Carlos Quentin, etc. Never expected that sort of an acquisition.
Your expectations aren’t far out of line with mine I don’t think. I see the difference being in the defining of the player value of potential acquisitions and current players. But what you did expect to happen is what I expected to happen. And I don’t expect those pieces to be found in Spring Training either. And that, too me, is disappointing and sets up for a mundane season.
Wayne: You really only have 2 slots to improve the offense. LF and SS. And do you really think you can do better than Prado? Unless we go for a guy like McCutchen, most of the other suspects are lesser players than Marteen.
There is an entire bench worth of potential improvements on this team, not merely the two starting positions. Fortunately some of the bench has been cleared, but unfortunately that doesn’t mean it was cleared for improvement.
And, let’s just say that I think there are more players in the majors that are better than Prado than simply Andrew McCutchen.
…….
If the knock on Jurrjens is his starts/games played/durability, it would seem apt to apply to Prado as well. For he has also been injured the past two years. And worse than Jair, Prado’s numbers have declined with those injuries. Jurrjens actually improved last year from the year before.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
January 4th, 2012
12:40 pm
Ross won’t happen either. JJ will be traded for some young, cheap player who could maybe get some playing time this year, but they’ll be aiming for him to start or platoon in ‘13. Unfortunately, Diaz will see a lot of playing time this year. UGH!
DS1
January 4th, 2012
12:41 pm
Brian
You might feel like you’re being strung along, but I really don’t.
The moves we have made (or not made) have not been unexpected.
DS1
January 4th, 2012
12:44 pm
No disagreement from me 10-Paul on Prado’s injury history or other OF’er being better than him.
I just think that when you have a pretty tight budget, you’ve gotta dance with the one you brung a bit longer sometimes.
Ya know, to see if they get prettier?
TennesseePaul
January 4th, 2012
12:45 pm
I think he wants a outfielder, period. And if that outfielder plays in RF over Heyward, then that’s okay as long as it upgrades the offense. I could be completely wrong.
I’d disagree in some fashion on SS. I understand and agree with not blocking that position when you have viable minor league candidates. LF I think could be a position to improve. It’s been a black hole for a decade now and I really see no reason why the team couldn’t get a good player for the position. Every year Wren has said the payroll will expand slightly. All those expansions should have been enough to cover the cost of more than a converted utility infielder.
As to playing over Heyward. I’d have liked a guy who could play LF, be right handed, and if Heyward stumbles, be capable of filling in there or platooning. I don’t see Diaz as the first or best option for this. I see Diaz as the guy who takes over in LF if Heyward falls flat and the newly acquired guy moves over to cover.
I had hoped for such an improvement and a rebound from Heyward which would have rewarded this team with a strong bench and deep outfield. Cody Ross really doesn’t fit that desire. But kudos for Cody. He should hold out for as much as he can. Why the Braves couldn’t afford him at $5M a year for 2 years is a bit weird. They do have a lot coming off the books next year.