7:03 pm January 2, 2012, by David O'Brien
January 9th, 201211:49 am
Lemke’s Knuckler, January 9th, 2012, 9:41 am … “…whereas in previous years the Braves were marching guys like Mark Redman out there?”
Threw up a little when I read this. That was a nightmare season for pitching.
Mark “The Guy Rescued from his Basement” Redman.
To be fair, Redman did pitch the remainder of that year for Colorado, and he did improve a bit. Rust and injury did factor a little into his dreadful stint with Atlanta.
And I don’t meant to knock the kid, but not pursuing a different 3rd base prospect because of his presence in the minors is not a great strategy. And to be honest, not pursuing the best prospects available in a system isn’t a great strategy either.
I mean, if the Tigers are offering Jacob Turner to the Braves, are we not to take him because we have so many other starting pitching prospects? That’s not smart. Have the kid pitch at Triple-A and trade him later in the year, or if you like him more than some of your current lot, trade one of them to fill a need later. Prospects are currency.
January 9th, 201211:50 am
Hiroki Kuroda has informed the Hiroshima Carp he intends to pitch in the Major Leagues again in 2012, according to the Jiji Press and other Japanese outlets, as translated by Patrick Newman of NPB Tracker.
January 9th, 201211:51 am
Throw Medlen into the mix of possible starters and it’s ridiculous how many potential starters Braves have including 3 or 4 at AAA that are ready for MLB now or very soon.
Then, that ought to be just about enough starters to get through the season. Eight pitchers started games last year. Even if you count Teheran and Delgado as a single “pitcher”, that’s seven different starters with at least 10 starts.
It’s a rare team that doesn’t go through seven starters in a season. Keep ‘em all, I say.
Efrim, January 9th, 2012, 9:40 am … “Anyone see a Braves transaction this week? I do. Just a gut feeling.”
I hear the stomach flu is going around. Maybe that’s what you’re feeling.
Fluids and rest will help. Thinking about Mark Redman could be disastrous.
January 9th, 201211:52 am
Does anyone else think that Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL?
January 9th, 201211:55 am
Here are the Orioles list of starting pitching options for 2012: Wei-Yin Chen, Tsuyoshi Wada, Jeremy Guthrie, Zach Britton, Chris Tillman, Dana Eveland, Brian Matusz, Jake Arreita, Brad Bergeson, Tommy Hunter.
Some people wonder why they can”t turn it around. They haven’t had decent pitchers in so long.
January 9th, 201211:58 am
Braves potential starters – Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Beachy, MInor, Medlen, Martinzez, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino plus Gilmartin later in the year?
I’d say that’s deeper than any rotation in MLB. Maybe not the quality at the top that some have, but they shouldn’t need to be looking for pitching anytime soon – well, at least THIS year, anyway.
January 9th, 201211:59 am
Didn’t the Mariners use just 5 starters the year they won 116 games? That was crazy and just rarely happens anymore.
I know braves have a ton of starting pitching, but I still think they need another veteran in that rotation who will throw 200 innings, only Tim Hudson managed that last year, with Lowe in 2nd place. It’s also likely that any young pitchers will be handled carefully with 100-110 pitches max per start. Sets up another season of heavy duty in the bullpen.
January 9th, 201212:00 pm
Lew – You know AT lives in his own “crazy trade” world.
JJ would be the Orioles’ best pitcher from Day One looks like, were he to be traded to Baltimore.
And Efrim, an old post of yours referenced Beachy’s fastball at 90-91. Everytime I watched him pitch, he was getting it up there at 94-95 (unless the tv radar gun was wrong). He seemed to get stronger towards the end of the season, too– he was hitting 96 a few times. So I think perhaps that 4-seamer is not as deceptive as you suggest. It’s just a hard-thrown ball that’s hard to catch up to. Actually, I think the key for Beachy is placement; he’s got great control.
January 9th, 201212:01 pm
raleighbraves – That he does – but he’s a good Dude.
January 9th, 201212:02 pm
Efrim, January 9th, 2012, 11:55 am … “Here are the Orioles list of starting pitching options for 2012:”
It’s even sadder when you remember the Palmer era pitching staff for the O’s.
January 9th, 201212:03 pm
raleighbravefan, what trade are you talking?
I haven’t mentioned a trade all morning.
January 9th, 201212:05 pm
Although, I will admit that I’m not afraid to pull the tigger on certain trades if the reward is acceptible.
Puma – I would be willing to bet that another starter is the last move they would consider makintg right now.
Besides – the pen is deeper than last year with a full year of Medlen and Varvaro (both able to go multiple innings along with Martinez), the big three, Fish and Asencio – and I believe that those knowledgeable about our Farm System sat there are a couple others as well that might be ready. Add to that the possinility of adding Moyan later in the year and I think we’re good to go
Buster Olney just claimed we had the best pen in MLB. I agree. We’re certainly deeper than last year without old, over the hilll types like Sherril (though he wasn’t terrible), Linebrink and Proctor.
January 9th, 201212:08 pm
Lew – 10 quality pitchers aren’t enough. We need to add a couple of hard throwing, true shut down aces. Don’t you read this blog every day? (major roll of eyes).
That’s 10 guys who have shown they can win big league games. With Hudson/Hanson/Jurrjens potentially being balky to start the season, Braves should prolly keep a little extra depth.
I suspect that Wren would be wise to hold off on a trade of a pitcher until after P&C report. If everyone looks healthy, then, he might be able to arrange a killer trade to bring in a SS.
A trade of JJJ for a front line SS, once everyone’s health has been established, would prolly be the best way to strengthen the 2012 Braves.
2 years of team control left, expensive in a year where payroll flexibility would be huge, deepest part of the Braves team (SP)
Hudson is 10/5, so he won’t be traded. Hanson doesn’t make a lot (yet) so Braves would lose perhaps their best pitcher and not clear much payroll.
January 9th, 201212:11 pm
but I still think they need another veteran in that rotation who will throw 200 innings, only Tim Hudson managed that last year,
Still, both Jurrjens and Hanson were averaging near 7 IP or better before the injuries. It’s just a matter of whether one thinks they’ll stay healthy.
There’s also plenty of reason to think there is some ceiling left in Beachy, so one could expect some better command from him as natural growth. That’s the only thing holding his innings back.
raleighbraves Do I read the blog? Depends on who you talk to. I post enough to be three on the 2011 list, but reading? Maybe not.
January 9th, 201212:12 pm
Zing, you could be right about Beachy. I didn’t check his fangraphs page before making that statement.
January 9th, 201212:14 pm
Beachy has such an easy motion that his speed is deceptive.
January 9th, 201212:15 pm
No one is praying at the alter of Matt Ryan. He is considered a good, not great or elite, QB, which he is. Falcons have lots of issues, including OC, but Ryan isn’t one of them.
Zing, Beachy’s average fastball was 91.4mph in 2011. Changeup was 79.9mph, Slider was 82.8mph and Curveball was 73.9mph.
January 9th, 201212:16 pm
Lew – I haven’t seen the 2011 list…I would guess I’m in the top 50, but probably not the top 25.
Of course, you are one of the contributors who I never scroll past. I assume you understood the last comment was loaded with sarcasm.
Tomahawkin (The Godfather)
[Tomahawkin (The Godfather)…10:02 am…”I maybe drinking the Kool Aid here but BB (Beachy) Has the best mound makeup and composure since a young Jason Marquis”]
“That’s not Kool Aid you’re drinking based on that comment. Marquis was a stubborn head case that wasted a lot of potential because he wouldn’t listen to anyone. To me, that doesn’t scream mound makeup and composure.”
I dunno…I was Impressed in Marquis ML Debut in 2001 at Chivez Ravine, where he Battled Kevin Browned for 8 scoreless innings only for us to Lose as a Result of a Sheffield walkoff homer
January 9th, 201212:18 pm
“Does anyone else think that Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL?”
No, Both Tony Blomo and Tim Tebow take that Claim
Agree with Efrim @ 11:49 on propects..and if the Tigers ever offer Jacob Turner I pray we take him.
Lew, to think, Atlanta had quite arguably the best pen in the majors last year, and we had the likes of Proctor, Linebrink and Sherrill.
Thats just amazing.
January 9th, 201212:19 pm
Jeff Bagwell for HOF Vote?
I say No because he is suspected of taking roids when Ken Caminiti was his teammate coming up in the early 90’s…
The Ray’s may have the top 4 starters. Its hard to overlook philly, but if you look at what the Ray’s roll out for 4 straight days is scary. If the Braves are going to move JJ to the Angels or anyone else, I would hope they go after the upper end prospects. I know Trout is untouchable with the Angels. But as mentioned on here before, Cowart would be a tremendous pick up. In regards to the O’s their pitching rotation and their prospects speak for themselves. IF Bundy doesn’t work out for them, then there has to be some serious internal investigations on the reasons.
January 9th, 201212:20 pm
raleighbravefan, you didn’t clearify the zing you took at me at 12:00, which trade are you referring to? At the very least give me a chance to validate my opinion or thinking on why I feel it’s beneficial.
If the Cubs are still looking to add starters like Paul Maholm, you’d think that may mean they are confident they’ll find a deal for Garza.
January 9th, 201212:21 pm
One and Done Ryan looked pretty aweful yesterday. He was not very accurate and always looking to bail. I was not impressed.
January 9th, 201212:24 pm
know braves have a ton of starting pitching, but I still think they need another veteran in that rotation who will throw 200 innings
With this much depth and great bullpen, why not go to 6-man rotation?
January 9th, 201212:26 pm
If we’re talking deals with the Angels, I’d like to see Braves go after Bourjos and a prospect. Bourjos plays great defense and has great wheels and would be suitable replacement for Bourn in 2013. Plus, the Angels have Trout for future in CF so Bourjos would likely be odd man out in year or two anyway.
AT – Just kidding around. You do propose some unusual moves. I think I was responding to Lew’s comment about bullpen depth. Intended all in fun…your a good guy. If I offended, I’m sorry. ( You do have to admit that you throw a lot against the wall, to see what sticks).
January 9th, 201212:27 pm
Shields, Price, Hellickson, Moore is ridiculous.
January 9th, 201212:29 pm
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Cubs close on Maholm. #MLB
Garza, Dempster, Wells, Volstad, Wood, Maholm, Sonnanstine, Coleman. I think a Garza trade will happen at some point in the next month.
Also, I think Theo genuinely likes breaking this Cubs team down.
January 9th, 201212:30 pm
raleighbravefan, Not a problem, wasn’t offended just wondering if there was one in particular I could clarify. The guy I through out there earlier as bull pen help could possibly come via free agency and probably at league min. One of those high reward type guys that your not out much if it doesn’t pan out.
January 9th, 201212:31 pm
Price and Big Game add a little oomph, true that. Braves’ top 4 is pretty bleepin’ good, though. Not what I’d call a huge gap there.
through = threw. That wasn’t good grammar.
January 9th, 201212:34 pm
“With this much depth and great bullpen, why not go to 6-man rotation?”
Pitchers don’t like it. And it won’t serve us well going into the latter months of the season and postseason, when you definitely go with pitchers on 3 & 4 days rest. I see what you’re saying and it would be interesting to see what would happen if a team went to a 6-man rotation. I guess 30-40 years ago, people probably thought the same thing about a 5-man rotation and now it’s the gold standard.
Tomahawkin, Tebow has at least won a playoff game.
January 9th, 201212:37 pm
I’d still like to see the Braves pull some type of trade that would improve this club long term. I feel like they are looking at very marginal improvements that really may not be improvements at all. And if that’s the case, I’d just assume they use the value they have to deepen our prospects along with holding status quo over this season. I’d like to see them move Prado and JJ to Detroit with a possible return bringing us Austin Jackson where he could serve as our CF going forward after next season with at a low cost. Also in that trade we could possibly get Chipper’s eventual replacement in the likes of Castellanos and few other highly regarded prospects.. fields, Flynn etc, etc.
January 9th, 201212:38 pm
Has anyone checked the numbers from yesterday’s games? I’d bet Tebow had more passing yards than Ryan.
January 9th, 201212:39 pm
The Ray’s have 4 legit #1/#2 starters. When Hellickson may be the worst one, that is just sick.
Has MLB made an official announcement about whether the extra wild card will take effect for 2012?
January 9th, 201212:40 pm
the Falcons were missing something this year. A very unimpressive 10-6 team. The Giants just dominated the line of scrimmage yesterday
January 9th, 201212:42 pm
Plus I think Tebow beat a better team in the Steelers then we lost to in the Giants.
January 9th, 201212:43 pm
in 2-3 years, the Braves will have a rotation of Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino and Minor/Gilmartin. That rotation will be “sick” as well
January 9th, 201212:44 pm
brian, I can tell you what the Falcons were missing this year… imagination on the offensive side of the ball.
January 9th, 201212:46 pm
No, and he is 23 years old.
He was in college, so I’m not overly concerned with is level and age, other than to put his production in perspective. Had he been drafted out of high school at age 17 or 18 and was still in A+ at 23, then I’d wonder. We’ll just wait and see how well he does. A lot of players come up at age 24/25. But it’d be unwise to not try to add some depth at 3B…. or basically everywhere in the minors.
January 9th, 201212:47 pm
ah, page turned over and there was your follow up… similar to what I just posted. Carry on now.
Lemke’s Knuckler – Extra WC is in 2013 when the Astros go to the AL.
“the Falcons were missing something this year. A very unimpressive 10-6 team. The Giants just dominated the line of scrimmage yesterday”
January 9th, 201212:48 pm
The Falcons were so unassuming — they couldn’t even bring themselves to call timeout near the end of the first half — they made you wonder why they bothered to come. _ Mark Bradley
I found myself wondering the same thing.
January 9th, 201212:52 pm
scoots, that’s true.
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 9th, 201212:54 pm
The Falcons offense was outscored by their own defense and shut out by the opposition.
January 9th, 201212:55 pm
I like Beachy. I’m going to enjoy watching where his career goes. But back to his pitching speeds. Sometimes I wonder about the Pitch Fx data. I’ve watched games and the data come in simultaneously and I’ve seen it flag fastballs as change ups and curvballs (which hung and didn’t break). From what I saw of him, I’d think he was a tick faster than that 91mph pitch fx is posting.
And then there is that new system which measures more than the speed but the distance from release point to plate to get “real” speed. They showed it explains mostly the “deceptive” speed of pitchers.
Back to Beachy, I’ve liked how his career started. He has looked good out there and seemed to adjust well. He hasn’t started at the top and had to work sideways. He seems to have started like most good pitchers, rough in the beginning but gets better with age.
He was in college, so I’m not overly concerned with is level and age, other than to put his production in perspective.
For sure, however if he was really killing it and they felt that he was ready for the promotion, they would of bumped him up. Simmons skipped a level. Ahmed will be skipping a level – both college guys.
January 9th, 201212:56 pm
flag fastballs as change ups and curvballs (which hung and didn’t break).
That should read …flag as fastballs, change ups and curveballs…
January 9th, 201212:59 pm
AT – very true.
The most imaginative play I saw yesterday was the end around to Julio which got about 12 yards. We were getting killed up front and some misdirection to keep the Giants honest helped. Why we kept trying to go up the middle in short yardage is beyond me
January 9th, 20121:04 pm
Big fan of Beachy as well, TNPaul (and Efrim). And what a great story, too– not one of those “top-notch” prospects.
Re: pitch speed, my recollection is obviously anecdotal, and stats don’t lie, right? However, I’d suggest watching a game this coming season when he’s pitching and pay attention to the radar gun. He brings it up there.
January 9th, 20121:09 pm
I can not believe we let A-GON go before we had a replacement. Now we have no SS, any ground ball hit between normal 3rd base aira and 2nd base will go right thru for basehit, we can;t expect CHIPPER to cover all that ground.
January 9th, 20121:14 pm
a-gon got 4.2 million to sign this year..per cots contracts. braves wouldn’t pay that much for Reyes..lol
“… there is that new system which measures more than the speed but the distance from release point to plate to get “real” speed. They showed it explains mostly the “deceptive” speed of pitchers.”
Huh? I thought the current system (radar gun) measured the real speed. What does distance to home plate have to do with that?
Or, are you saying they’re moving from speed as the gold standard to “time to home plate?”
January 9th, 20121:16 pm
I can not believe we let A-GON go before we had a replacement. Now we have no SS, any ground ball hit between normal 3rd base aira and 2nd base will go right thru for basehit
Is that a prediction that Pastornicky will forget to bring his glove to spring training and that said glove will be lost in transit for the entire season? Jeez…some of you act like the Braves are going to be playing with 8 men on the field. Give the kid a chance.
January 9th, 20121:17 pm
January 9th, 20121:20 pm
Actually, I think the Braves are planning to put Pastornicky’s glove at SS position but only let the Preacher hit.
Seriously, if the Braves cannot find someone who can play credible SS defense, somewhere in the system, then they are really, really lame.
I mean, I hear Prado can play SS in a pinch!
Now we have no SS, any ground ball hit between normal 3rd base aira and 2nd base will go right thru for basehit, _ George
Yeah, it’s gonna be really interesting to which players have enough bat control to hit it there every time up.
January 9th, 20121:21 pm
An hour and a half until HOF named.
I’m guessing Larkin and Morris.
January 9th, 20121:22 pm
Thank you for correction eskippy.
..Braves stunk in August and the Falcons stunk in January. The Hawks will stink.
Tell us ajc reporters, what’s the point in being a fan of Atlanta teams?
January 9th, 20121:23 pm
Just trying for a bit of humor Bat.
January 9th, 20121:26 pm
George – Bat was too.
January 9th, 20121:28 pm
what’s the point in being a fan of Atlanta teams?
That the Thrashers won’t stink…
George – maybe Chipper can get an Extend-O-Glove…
January 9th, 20121:34 pm
@abwright at 1:14pm
Check out this link from SI.
Essentially, they use a different technology to determine a pitcher’s delivery motion, which would equal “deception” in the delivery. The technology can measure the effective release point of a pitch, compare it to the average release point, and recalculate an effective mph rating.
They also count the number of revolutions in a breaking pitch.
January 9th, 20121:46 pm
Josh H, January 9th, 2012, 1:34 pm
Thanks for the link. That’s basically what I was asking. Time from release to home plate is the key variable, rather than speed at a point.
Of course, just to screw things up, they pick a standard distance (5′ 10″) and recalculate the “average velocity” as the standard distance divided by time from release to home plate, since folks are so used to comparing pitchers by speed.
Is it any wonder that Johnny Can’t Do Math?
January 9th, 20121:50 pm
Math? We don’t need no stinkin’ math!
January 9th, 20121:54 pm
See Jimmy @ 1:26
January 9th, 20121:57 pm
So…hmm…quiet…not much to…talk about.
January 9th, 20121:59 pm
Who do you like in tonight’s game?
I’m going with the SEC.
January 9th, 20122:00 pm
I wonder what Randy Johnson’s extension would be using the Trackman software. Probably 12′-6″. If only someone could have taught Manute Bol or George Muresan to throw a baseball.
January 9th, 20122:02 pm
i think LSU handles alabama tonight. nothing like the last game…i say they win by at least two possessions. (9 or more points)
Or that old wrestler from WWF, El Gigante
January 9th, 20122:07 pm
Bat – an excellent choice, given yesterday’s efforts at prognostication…
January 9th, 20122:12 pm
I remember seeing Spud Webb dunk on Manute Bol one night at the Omni.
January 9th, 20122:13 pm
Tigers gonna make some Dumbo Gumbo tonight.
January 9th, 20122:14 pm
Thanks, VJ, I’m learning
January 9th, 20122:23 pm
I have wondered for a long time why there is not a standard for measuring pitches. Obviously as soon as a pitcher releases the ball, it is at its’ top velocity, with friction from wind resistance and gravity reducing the speed all the way to the plate. I’m sure this is part of the cause of velocities varying for pitchers.
January 9th, 20122:24 pm
This was too funny…
January 9th, 20122:32 pm
Huh? I thought the current system (radar gun) measured the real speed. What does distance to home plate have to do with that?
It can be easily argued that a radar gun is not as exact as claimed. But my point was to the “deceptive speed” which was best measured by what I think you are calling time to plate. Though I’ve heard that in reference to a pitcher’s set up and delivery as well. At any rate, as I quoted “real” I was intended to imply the batter perceived speed as measured from the final release point of the ball to crossing the plate. Guys with longer strides, arms, or what ever typically get the tag “deceptive” on their speed as they end up releasing the ball much closer to the plate. The ball appears to reach the plate quicker than expected even if the radar gun puts it as slower than one would think.
Does that muddy up the point enough?
January 9th, 20122:41 pm
Just Came from my Winter Vacation in Puerto Rico and during my visit i went to a couple Baseball game and i saw Alex Cora Playing a good solid SS.
Question is…It’s Cora , what Braves need to back up ss-2b?…I know was a rumor last week that the National sign him to a minor league contract with a purpose to use him also as a coach…Not official get.
January 9th, 20122:42 pm
or what ever typically get the tag “deceptive” on their speed
Too much like “gritty”, for my taste. Also reeks of “polished lefty”.
Ole Diz would have cared nothing fer ‘em, I’m guessing. They don’t rare back and th’ow it.
January 9th, 20122:44 pm
WOW…Brian VanGorder has accepted the defensive coordinator job at Auburn University.
January 9th, 20122:49 pm
So a gritty, deceptive, polished, left-handed, innings-eater wouldn’t be worth killing.
“Innings-eater” is always the one that twists me. If he’s good and throws alot of innings, it’s usually termed “a horse.” That’s where you’ll find the difference.
We talk baseball, other sports, music, movies, BBQ and whatever (except politics or religion)
Atlanta Braves RSS feed
Previous entries »
Send a feedback technical issue
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution