7:03 pm January 2, 2012, by David O'Brien
January 5th, 20129:39 am
Efrim, I’m just not convinced Jones is the answer. I mean, he’s not a true CFer anyways and he’s a KO machine. I don’t understand the thinking on this one.
AT – Agreed. It’s the pitching that concerns me with the Nats.
January 5th, 20129:41 am
I don’t understand the thinking on this one.
Well, Rosenthal reported yesterday that talks were “nowhere”, however then said that the situation was fluid.
January 5th, 20129:42 am
raleighbravefan, yeah I think the pitching will be the deciding factor on who does want this year between us, the phils, marlins and nats. Each one of us has the potential for a very strong pitching year, things just have to go right to do it.. and it mostly centers around health.
January 5th, 20129:43 am
Efrim, I saw that yesterday… is that like saying it’s not raining outside but carry your umbrella so you don’t get wet?
January 5th, 20129:47 am
Young outfielders who can help a lineup right away usually cost a ton…
Yeah. It is ridiculous to think the Braves, offering a young pitcher who can help a rotation right away, would even think of asking for a player who can help right away in return. Way too steep. They should sober up and just realize that young, mid-to-top rotation starter who can help right away is only worth a non-tender candidate, bench platoon player and nothing more.
January 5th, 20129:53 am
I just don’t see the value in Adam Jones and Seth Smith.
Jones is a poor CF (really a corner guy now) that does not do anything with the bat well. Maybe he can improve.
If the Braves want him for LF fine, but for CF in 2013, no thanks, I’ll take Jordan Schafer. At least he can play defense.
BAS in the Black community we use POS as a compliment. I am giving you a pass because you need sugar rehab or sugar supervision. POS is pronounced pause dude. Does that work for you PUD
POA n. a meadow-grass plant
POD v. to shell peas
POH interj. expressing contempt
POI n. a Hawaiian dish of fermented taro
POL n. a politician
POM n. (colloq.) for Pomeranian dog
POO v. to defecate
POP v. to make a mild explosive sound
POS adj. (slang) positive
POT v. to put in a round container
POW n. an explosive sound
POX v. to infect with syphilis
POZ adj. (obs.) positive (also POZZ)
PRE prep. before
PRO n. a professional or prostitute
PRY v. to look into private matters
(n. PRIER, PRYER)
PSI n. a Greek letter
PST interj. used to attract attention
PUB n. a tavern
PUD n. (colloq.) a pudding
January 5th, 20129:56 am
Way too steep.
Sorry, I think it is. By young outfielders that can help right away, are we talking Adam Jones? Or are we talking 0-3 players like Desmond Jennings or something. I was thinking Buster was talking about the latter….
January 5th, 20129:58 am
I thought you meant POS like piece of s#$%!
January 5th, 20129:59 am
“The Braves interest in him has cooled.”
Ef, looks like we’re ahead. I’m not going to back down the pressure until Smith is securely off the radar.
They should sober up and just realize that young, mid-to-top rotation starter who can help right away is only worth a non-tender candidate, bench platoon player and nothing more.
They could ask for unproven prospects……..and then allocate the money to a free agent outfielder like Carlos Bel….ah, forget it.
January 5th, 201210:00 am
Austin Jackson is averaging 187 K’s per 162 games played… granted, he’s young and talented, but damn… the kid swings at everything.
January 5th, 201210:01 am
From Buster in his blog today: Not to place blame at the feet of anyone in particular, but it is incredible how little the Cubs have gotten in return for the most expensive signings in the history of their franchise — Zambrano, Milton Bradley, Kosuke Fukudome and Alfonso Soriano, who have cost the franchise something in the range of $300 million.
January 5th, 201210:03 am
Adam Jones = Nate McLouth. Never played on a winning team, a potential 20/20 player (at least NM did that in ‘08) and is seemingly overrated by some as a good defender when they really aren’t.
God, Wren. Don’t do that.
looks like we’re ahead. I’m not going to back down the pressure until Smith is securely off the radar.
I really just want to see him traded to another team….preferrably to a team in the Nippon Professional Baseball league. Then we’ll be safe.
January 5th, 201210:04 am
Wow, the Rays really keep their prospects down for a while. Desmond Jennings is 25 years ols, turning 26 in 2012 and has had a total of 268 at bats in the majors. He looked ready this year.
January 5th, 201210:05 am
Some team is probably really going to get burned – if they sign Fielder to a long term contract. Players with his body type usually are not productive at a very advanced age. If his father is any indication, didn’t his production really decline at a really young age??
January 5th, 201210:06 am
By young outfielders that can help right away
Was it plural? Two back in a trade? I could see asking for one right away and possibly some minor leaguers. But 1/4th of the non-pitching starting positions in a lineup is a bit much.
But as to the value of Jurrjens. I’m with Wren on this. I don’t buy this hype that Jurrjens is essentially worthless. He’s a mid to top of the rotation starter. I get the recent injury history fears, but that is what the physical is for in a trade. The acquiring team can examine him and back away if his knee really is as awful as everyone seems to think. With improved performance last year, 2 years with a sub 3 ERA in the majors, major league starting experience and two years of control left… that’s worth a starting player in return. More than a soon-to-be-over-paid platoon bench player.
flange1 Leo Buscaglia is there for those who dwell on the negative Maybe too deep for here
January 5th, 201210:07 am
Jim Hendry….. Free agency is dangerous.
January 5th, 201210:09 am
So far, I haven’t seen an available OF’er that was worth the price (either players and/or money + contract) in either trade or FA. I don’t like a trade that doesn’t really help us…dumb, and knee jerk reaction to September…DUMB. I include Beltran with those that are not worth the money, unless you have plenty of money. It appears Wren has a similar view.
January 5th, 201210:10 am
I’d rather overpay for Upton than to overpay for Jones. At least we’d get speed and defense in that return.
Prado and Bourn to the Tigers for Jackson, Castellanos, Flynn and Fields.
I get the recent injury history fears, but that is what the physical is for in a trade.
Don’t forget the decreased velocity. I mean, if you buy into the notion that Jair Jurrjens wanted to pitch with less velo and use Venters sinker, or whatever. I don’t believe 2011 first half is sustainable over the long haul and I would love to see Jair Jurrjens circa 2009 – that was the best Jair. I don’t care about his performance and ERA, or whatever. His performance kicked ass in 2009, and his stuff looked a lot better. If that Jair was present in 2011, then I think you’re looking at a #2 starter.
January 5th, 201210:12 am
Coming your way today. I need the pix back when you’re done. Will include a check for the shipping cost. Thanx a million for doing this for the family.
Did you read the comments from last night from that poster saying he heard from a friend who’s a beat writer in Detroit that the Braves and Tigers are discussing a trade that would send Jackson to ATL for Prado? Funny if it was true and happened since you’ve been saying it for some time now. Obviously it could all be BS as well.
Regarding the Braves and Rockies and Smith…I really hope DOB is right because why the H would the Braves need more pitching? This is the reason they are searching for an OF’er now because they drafted pitching and mediocre position players or traded for pitching in the past. Now they are playing a pretty good 2B out of position in LF.
January 5th, 201210:13 am
New Marlins rotation addition Carlos Zambrano is 2-5 with a 6.08 ERA in 13 starts vs. Braves, his worst record and ERA against any team he’s faced more than once.
He’s 0-5 in his past 11 starts against the Braves including 0-3 with a 13.89 ERA in three starts over the past three seasons.
Brian McCann is 9-for-14 with a homer and five RBI against him, while Chipper Jones is 9-for-27 with two homers, six RBIs, four walks and one strikeout.
flange and PD – I’m an old f@rt, and my worse trivia subject is current pop culture…but, I too, would have assumed that POS meant “piece of shi…err…stuff”.
Tomahawkin (Bring Back Loaf)
This Has arguably been the most Dull offseason since the blog has existed (2005)
4 More Weeks til my Athlon Sports Baseball Magazine Comes out! Can’t wait…I’m tired of hearing Rostenthals FUB’R rumor mills….
I mean, if you buy into the notion that Jair Jurrjens wanted to pitch with less velo and use Venters sinker, or whatever.
I could be “mis-remembering” but for some reason I recall something along the lines of pitching to contact to increase his efficiency and go deeper into games. At any rate, I don’t think his velocity “issues” are related to his arm. It’s either choice or his leg and if it is his leg and that is stabilized going forward it’s not an issue. It should make him a better pitcher having spent time learning how to get through lineups with and without velocity.
January 5th, 201210:15 am
He has also retired at least once after being shelacked by the Braves.
Zambrano puts a fear in nobody except his own teammates.
BravePack, no I didn’t see that but I do think Jackson brings a lot more value then either Smith or Jones.
How was your New Years? Did you get any time in on the ol PS3?
January 5th, 201210:16 am
Big Z Drilled Chipper in That Game at the Ted where He Got Clowned before getting banned from the Team…I hope that Rivalry carries over into this year???
Braves games against the Marlins used to be borefests…Now I have a New Team to hate on as opposed to the NY Mess Who have lost their Swagger as well as their Bandwagon fans that live out here in The “A”
January 5th, 201210:18 am
“flange and PD – I’m an old f@rt, and my worse trivia subject is current pop ”
Co-Sign…I’m sooo opposed to Pop Culture especially when I have to listen to that Elvis show on 105.7 in the mornings…I could care less about the Kardiashiatrash and what they do in their lives…
January 5th, 201210:19 am
Tomahawkin – Partly a dull off season, because we don’t really need to do much. Bourn move at TDL, new hitting coaches, dumping Lowe…all positives.
January 5th, 201210:20 am
I don’t believe 2011 first half is sustainable over the long haul
I don’t believe Heyward’s first two months of his career are “sustainable over the long haul”. Nor do I believe Uggla’s July-August 2011 are “sustainable over the long haul”. Doesn’t mean those guys aren’t that good and have little trade value.
January 5th, 201210:21 am
It’s either choice or his leg and if it is his leg and that is stabilized going forward it’s not an issue. It should make him a better pitcher having spent time learning how to get through lineups with and without velocity.
Well, if I’m a GM, I’m wondering if the 2009 version of Jair Jurrjens can come back. That guy was a #2 starter to me. I wouldn’t expect to get him on the cheap for crud(platoon player + a fringe prospect), but I wouldn’t mortgage the farm for him….or even trade a young outfielder with lots of promise for him. And if I were Wren, I’d keep him for 2012. Hanson’s shoulder, Hudson’s back and the lack of experience from the other rotation members concerns me.
January 5th, 201210:22 am
Tomahawkin – Agree 100%…In what bazarro world do the Kardiashisns have ANY relevance whatsoever.
January 5th, 201210:23 am
Of course, the last pitcher the Braves dominated to such a degree in regular-season play it was Livan Hernandez, and eventually Livo turned the tables and had a stretch of strong pitching against Atlanta. So might not want to get too confident about facing Big Z, I guess.
McFann O O o
DOB Brian McCann is 9-for-14 with a homer and five RBI against him, while Chipper Jones is 9-for-27 with two homers, six RBIs, four walks and one strikeout.
Zambrano and Nolasco in the NL East and on the same team—it’s like a dream come true!…
January 5th, 201210:24 am
Efrim @10:21 – 100% correct.
January 5th, 201210:25 am
I expect a major meltdown by Big Z…but then, I’m not really going out on alimb here.
January 5th, 201210:26 am
And if I were Wren, I’d keep him for 2012. Hanson’s shoulder, Hudson’s back and the lack of experience from the other rotation members concerns me.
I heard that.
Well, if I’m a GM, I’m wondering if the 2009 version of Jair Jurrjens can come back.
If I’m a GM I’m wondering how healthy he is and looking forward to the physical to answer those questions. If the guy is healthy, he’s a really good, young pitcher. “Mortgage the farm”? Please. I’m not asking to bankrupt another team. Teams can trade from depth, as the Braves would be doing if Jurrjens was moved (pitching is a depth for this team). If a team doesn’t have the depth, then they can’t do the deal. But I don’t think that justifies a crappy price on Jurrjens.
Doesn’t mean those guys aren’t that good and have little trade value.
So you don’t think him finishing the year on the DL for the same knee issues is effecting his trade value? And sandwiched in between those DL stints, diminished velocity that could of been him compensating because he just couldn’t run his fastball up there with consistency? You think that was his choice? To never throw harder to put a guy away with two strikes? I don’t buy it.
January 5th, 201210:27 am
I wouldn’t be against something along these lines either… Lets package Prado and Gilmartin or Minor to acquire Jackson, Castellanos and Flynn or Fields. That would give us an outfield of Jackson, Bourn and Heyward plus security when Bourn leaves next year. Castellanos would gives a potential replacement at 3rd when Chipper retires. All of this, while removing around 4 to 5 million from payroll.
January 5th, 201210:29 am
I think everyone needs to understand that Jair has some definite concerns. He’s not putting together full seasons so it definitely takes the luster off of his stats. If he was completely healthy, I don’t think you’d see the Braves shopping him.
That said, we’re going to get a guy in return with question marks as well. While I agree with the sentiments of many about Adam Jones’ plate discipline, he’s still young with some upside.
I think folks are looking for a can’t miss guy and we’re not getting that player for Jurrjens.
And I pray Troy Renck is the one making up all of these Prado rumors to Colorado.
coach 2012 Marlins: Pitching, check. Defense, check. Offense, check. Running game, check.
pitching, check? you sure about that? zambrano is not a good addition, burhle is a decnt pickup but surely you dont think he is the key, and josh johnson might not pitch.
January 5th, 201210:31 am
“Mortgage the farm”? Please. I’m not asking to bankrupt another team.
Hey, I agree with you – I want fair value for Jurrjens. I don’t know for the life of me why Toronto doesn’t want to trade any of the 15 pitching prospects with mid-rotation upside or better for a major league pitching upgrade.
If a team doesn’t have the depth, then they can’t do the deal.
Though, with the way evaluation and trading rumors have been going, I’d like real life to work that way.
“Sure do love that Lamborghini. Look, the thing is I don’t have the money you are asking for it. I think that’s a bit too steep. But I can give a 10 year old Corolla in exchange. It’s a good deal. You should really just go ahead and make it.”
January 5th, 201210:32 am
How is Zambrano that much better than Volstad?
January 5th, 201210:35 am
So why am I not enthused about Austin Jackson? Besides the incredible K-rate, low pop and that’s our LF?
January 5th, 201210:36 am
Zambrano speakable the Spanish Efrim
The Miami Marlin clubhouse has to many firecracker…they going to BOOM in Ozzie face before Allstar Break.
January 5th, 201210:38 am
DOB, per your 3:16 am this morning, if Atl is indeed trying to snag A Jones from Bal, do they still need to trade for Smith? I get restocking the pitching prospects part of your statement. It would seem to me if they were indeed making a play for Jones, Smith would not be needed at all. Jones is a better hitter vs RHP. I would think the need for someone to replace Prado’s role as the utility guy would be the primary need not adding a 4th OF who can’t hit LHP.
So you don’t think him finishing the year on the DL for the same knee issues is effecting his trade value?
I think it is leverage other teams are using to try to reduce his price. But I know that this is exactly what a physical is for in the deal. If his knee is as bad as everyone is speculating, it will show up in a physical. How could it not? The way the rumors sound, everyone thinks he’ll have a hard time walk to the mound, much less pitching. Hence the terrible offers.
You think that was his choice?
It could be. You could ask him. If he says it was, what are you going to do? I thought I remembered something about him stating a different game plan, but I could be wrong on that. I do remember all those years with the dominate staffs, all the pitchers and coaches and managers telling the young kids to not try to over power a hitter. Location was more important than velocity. That was for a decade and a half the mantra of Braves pitching.
January 5th, 201210:39 am
Are you kidding? He’s way more entertaining. The Marlins will make money off of this circus.
January 5th, 201210:41 am
I cant wait for big Z meltdown 2.0 at the Ted this year. After his actions At the Bobby Cox special, he’s bound to get lit up again by our 3 4 5 hitters.
January 5th, 201210:44 am
No my playing time has been less and less on the PS3. In fact my 8 year old son saved all his Christmas money and bought his 1st game system already…an XBOX 360, so now we have both systems which is fine as I’ve always wanted to play the Gears of War series. I am eagerly awaiting MLB 12 The Show though and I’m sure I’ll be playing PS3 a lot more after March 6th.
By the way despite his high K numbers I wouldn’t mind seeing Jackson in a Braves uni either and he may cost the Braves the least out of all potential players mentioned.
January 5th, 201210:46 am
TennesseePaul: The Braves have advocated over the years to making the hitter hit the pitcher’s pitch. I get that.
But they also want pitchers to sometimes reach back and overpower a guy at times as well. (Smoltz)
Jurrjens no longer could reach back for that 95mph heater. Ever.
January 5th, 201210:47 am
BravePack: Explain why on Jackson.
January 5th, 201210:48 am
How many meltdowns are the Marlins going to endure between Zambrano and Ramirez when Ozzie starts pushing them for production?
January 5th, 201210:50 am
TNPaul – Circus is right. Ozzie, Hanley, Reyes, Big Z …This should be a “hoot” to watch.
January 5th, 201210:51 am
I always see you putting down players mentioned in trades on here for the OF…Jackson, Wheeler, and I think Jones as well. So who in your opinion is worth trading for to improve the OF and please don’t say you think a 2B turned LF’er is still the answer.
January 5th, 201210:53 am
Who is TP?
January 5th, 201210:54 am
TommyP, Jacson is 24 won’t be arb eligible until 2013, gold glove caliber defense, can play all 3 outfield positions, has speed, has a good arm and even showed a little more power last year and he’s still developing.
Those are my reasons.
raleighbravesfan I too, would have assumed that POS meant “piece of shi…err…stuff”.
that IS what it means. but,t hats when you say it P-O-S, letter by letter. i guess PD is saying “pos” as a word means something else to him. but P-O-S means…well, you know.
January 5th, 201210:55 am
It doesn’t matter who we do or don’t trade for, come midseason, half the team will be gone anyway.
January 5th, 201210:56 am
I think there will be a trade today. JJ to Yankees for Nakajima and prospect. Yankees only have until tomorrow to sign and trade. Then we will sign Cody Ross. Team set!
Coach (2012 Fredi's beisbol fandango)
January 5th, 201210:57 am
It’ll be a hoot to watch Ozzie and Zambrano exchange pleasantries when big Z gets yanked off the mound after getting lit up.
January 5th, 201210:58 am
austin jackson does K alot, and he had a bad 2011, but 2010 was a good year, and for an excellent defensive CFer, he had acceptable slugging numbers (.400 slg%) and a good .345 OBP. he will steal you a handful of bases too. he needs to cut down on the Ks, but if he get perform a little closer to his 2010 level, he is a valuable player, i think.
January 5th, 201210:59 am
Here’s a comparison for ya,
Bourn (29) .271/.336/.358 over his career
Jackson (24) .271/.331/.387 career numbers
Granted that’s based off of Jackson’s 2 seasons and Bourn’s 6 but I’d bet you Jackson will improve above and beyond those numbers but will Bourn?
January 5th, 201211:00 am
I wonder what pitching prospect we were insisting on from the Rockies. Matzek, perhaps?
DOB: It seems that none of the potential moves that we are aware of makes sense for the Braves. Trading Prado leaves a hole for Chippers backup. Trading for Smith makes little sense. Overpaying for Jones creates holes.
The common thread for all of the rumors is the need to get rid of payroll.
I hope that this in not true.
Arkansas Transplant: Jackson scares me a lot more than Adam Jones.
He’s averaged 175 strikeouts the past two years.
.249 BA last year with a SLG of .374. Ugh.
And before you blame Comerica, Comerica is actually where he plays better. Think about it….huge field where he can split the gaps easily with line drives.
I just don’t see it with A. Jackson.
January 5th, 201211:01 am
Potential…he had a pretty good year 2 years ago minus the power so he can hit, still young, good fielder and would probably cost the least amount in a trade.
January 5th, 201211:02 am
Adam Jones has a career .319 OBP… 319
January 5th, 201211:04 am
With Ozzie Guillen, Zambrano, Luria and Hanley, they’d better have fire insurance on that new stadium and the beat writers better know how to spell incendiary, volatile and conflagration.
TP is TennPaul.
January 5th, 201211:06 am
Jackson does not make us better next year.
TommyP, you won’t take Jackson’s 2010 numbers? I mean last year was his sophmore year, look what it did to Heyward and I see Heyward as the better talent between the 2.
January 5th, 201211:08 am
TommyP, I think your wrong about that, his defense alone would make us better. Not to mention his ability to swing to CF when Bourn would need a break.
I’d hope we wouldn’t add any pitching prospect of worth(Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado) for Adam Jones.
“How is Zambrano that much better than Volstad”
You know why this happend. Ozzie probably pushed to get Zambrano. His ethnicity. If he was a white dude with a wild temper and declining skills, you think Ozzie would want him over a younger pitcher who is probably a little better if he were Venezuelan? Guillen is from Venezuela as well. Talk about profiling …
January 5th, 201211:10 am
Efrim, I’d also hope we wouldn’t include either JJ or Prado to acquire Jones as well.
hopefully Big Z will not have Eric Gregg’s strikezone against the Braves.
I am glad the Braves interest in Seth Smith is cooling but why would the Braves trade for Seth Smith if they were going to flip the pitching prospect for Adam Jones? Jones, Bourn, and Heyward in the outfield – Seth Smith would be a backup.
Agree with concerns over Jones. Another A. Jones strikeout machine. If getting a different OF than Martin Prado is that important to the Braves, put your focus into someone like Cain from KC, Jackson from Detroit, etc. Seth Smith is not an upgrade unless you plan to add Cody Ross to platoon with him and sign Wilson Betemit to fill Prado’s role
January 5th, 201211:12 am
I just read a facebook blog for the O’s; The fans up there are all upset about the O’s possibly trading one of their stars. And JJ would get lit up in the AL. Adam Jones is a decent player with a potential upside. But a star? Don’t you have to put up star numbers before you can be labeled a star?
brian: Jones is “another A. Jones strikeout machine”???? And then you say focus on Austin Jackson from Detroit? The light-hitting Jackson led the league in K’s two years ago and put up more K’s last year!
January 5th, 201211:13 am
tommyP Jackson scares me a lot more than Adam Jones.
he shouldnt. jackson is actually a good CFer.
January 5th, 201211:16 am
Arkansas: We can agree to disagree. My opinion of A.Jackson is his game plays really well in the vast confines of Comerica.
January 5th, 201211:18 am
DAP: We’re looking for a LF for this year.
January 5th, 201211:20 am
If we get Jones then I will pull for him to develop himself as something nice as a Brave. I would like something that doesn’t K so much, can take a walk and maye play a better OF. But I won’t bi*** and moan because we’d be getting a RH potential bat and also get what most of us have been bit**** about for months now and that’s some action.
Of course some will constantly whine themselves to sleep no matter what, but that’s ya’lls lives, not mine.
January 5th, 201211:24 am
I do think we get Jones. What Dave said earlier does make sense in that they wanted a pitching prospect from COL, which sounded strange. Yep, flip him over to the O’s in a deal for AJ. Seems if Wren was willing to go that far, it makes you think he wants Jones and will get him.
January 5th, 201211:27 am
tommyp We’re looking for a LF for this year.
why? we have one.
We have a super utility player playing LF at the moment.
Who’s to say the Braves don’t lock Bourn up even if they acquire Jones? Geez, panicking before ya even know for sure.
January 5th, 201211:29 am
Just can’t see them trading Prado to get Smith and a prospect from Colorado to turn over to get Jones from Baltimore and still need a third base option for when Chipper’s down.
If they’re going for a LH hitting outfielder when we need RH hitting, why trade a RH hitter in Prado and pick up HInske’s option?
Not to mention that we have so many pitching prospects, if they really wanted Jones, they could find a pitcher the Orioles would accept without trading to get one.
None of this makes any sense.
January 5th, 201211:31 am
If the Braves could pry Jackson away from Detroit who do they have to replace him? Kind of matters if this has the potential to happen as the Tigers were a playoff team last year and would need someone to step in if Jackson is traded.
January 5th, 201211:32 am
I think Wren has a plan in place if he does trade Prado. Its pretty interesting Wilson Betemit is still a free agent. He would be the ideal replacement.
January 5th, 201211:34 am
Last night the 3 year old fell asleep singing Blue Shadows from The 3 Amigos… actually fell asleep mid-verse. It was really cute.
I then fell asleep on the couch while watching Macgruber. Funny, funny movie, but for some reason I can’t make it all the way through. What was on HBO after Macgruber? Some soft core porn, of course. Woke up at 1am with that on TV. Wasn’t all that concerning until I put the dog in her crate and went to bed only to discover the 3 year old asleep on my side. She had to have passed by me on the couch to get to my room, which means she probably got quite an eye full on her way.
Parenting 101… if you’re sleepy and watching HBO, you might want to check the guide to see what’s on next before you fall asleep and change the channel if necessary.
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