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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
776 comments Add your comment
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
4:09 pm
The offseason is far from over….
Peter Short
Who should we replace Heyward with?
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
4:17 pm
If it hasn’t happened already, teams are going to be knocking on Wren’s door for JJ now that Yu, Gio, CJ and other pitchers are off the market. He was smart to wait. That Delmon news was quite a liong time ago, Peter. Personally, I’m glad that trade never happend. Also, if you want DOB’s job, you might want to stop writing the way teenage girls text.
Ray
December 24th, 2011
6:17 pm
nuffsaid, I think its a very safe bet that Wren has made calls and has taken calls in regards to trades. I think its also a safe bet that Wren does a pretty good job when it comes to trades. None of us have any idea on those discussions. Also none of us have any idea if Wren has made any offers to any FA’s. We don’t know if Wren has an offer on the table for Cody Ross right now. He could have a 1 yr offer on the table and Ross and has that in his back pocket as he is looking for a 3 yr deal. Who knows, he may have thrown a 1 yr 10m offer to Oswalt. Yes we want him to make the team better. But I personally wants a gm like Wren that is not going to panic and make a bunch of moves that handcuffs the team for yrs down the road like the Mets.
count_schemula
December 24th, 2011
6:31 pm
If we sign Cody Ross, I will not watch a game this year.
Heyward got hurt and it seems like Larry Parrish was no good. Uggla started out crap, and Heyward neer adjusted after getting out of whack. Heyward will be fine once he finds his grove. He’s played baseball his whole life and he’s only 22. He hits the ball hard. I’m not worried about Heyward.
I am worried about having two stone gloves up the middle though.
I’d like to see more Charlie Blackmon talk. Seems like the Rockies could have an OF to move with the signing of Cuddyer.
Blackmon Bourn Heyward would be a great defensive outfield and they could all take third base on singles to right.
tvsportscaster
December 24th, 2011
6:35 pm
Seems as though talks with Colorado for Prado have cooled, had the Braves made the trade last weekend with the Reds for JJ before they got Latos, it seems like that would have expedited a Prado-Smith deal.
http://harding.mlblogs.com/2011/12/24/its-the-seth-smith-shopping-season/
Jim-the avid Braves fan
December 24th, 2011
6:41 pm
@Ray
It hurts me to say but I do feel strongly that “Without at least two upgrades” (as you pointed out) I see the Marlins ahead of us. Seems the only things that helped was the spark that Constanza brought to the team, even tho it was short lived. For a team that has so much youth, seems they lost any spark they had had. I truly hope the Braves prove me wrong, but………..
Ray
December 24th, 2011
6:42 pm
count, none of us know how well the young ss for the braves is going to play. If I remember correctly when prado was coming up, a lot was talked about how he could not field. IF a trade with Colorado takes place, it would not surprise me if it was JJ or one of the other young pitchers for a package that includes Blackmon or Smith plus with Prado staying put. The Rox could be asking and demanding JJ straight up fo Smith or Blackmon but not both. Or asking the Braves to include even more than JJ and Prado with Wren not having anything to do with that nonsense.
Seattle Braves
December 24th, 2011
6:43 pm
If the Braves sign Ross or Smith I will not watch game this year. I always listen anyways.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
6:49 pm
“But, I would prefer that the Braves organization at least admit that there is a problem and try, mind you just try, to make some improvements.”
Nuff said, I feel the same way. As previously said, I respect Wren as a solid baseball man but he is giving us a sun is in the sky speel as if he has actually won something big. Or, that the Braves are a perenially playoff team that has had a couple or so long post season runs
Fact—The Braves have not won a post season series since 2001, have not been to a WS since 1999 and in five of the last 6 yrs have missed the post season entirely. It has been mediocre since 2005 and the very top–ownership is totally disengagued.
Improvement is needed & the likes of Cody Ross is not going to motivate this fan base. Not a bad player but I would rather keep, committ and gamble that Martin Prado will be the high .300’s OBP guy and .800 OPS guy he was for 3 yrs prior to his off yr last yr and he is only 28.
Not to mention his versitality. Prado has done everything you want in a ball player unless you are out to replace him with some big time stud, why not reward a guy who has been the exact kind of teammate and organization man he has been.
Second guessing is just part of being a fan.
Seattle Braves
December 24th, 2011
6:50 pm
Look last years team couldnt get the job done period. Why not add a everyday starter to LF? If its Prado I can understand that move. what is really hurting the Braves is Chipper Jones. He is going to play 80-120 games if healthy. We need a good replacement (Prado) for the other games. So leads me to believe they will platoon in LF. If Chipper retired… Then Prado becomes the everyday 3B and we trade JJ for a starting LF with a good bat.
Braves are in a pickle, and thats why they are asking high for Prado. He is the replacement for Chipper due to Chipper’s health. I only see Prado being traded if its lopsided for the Braves. Otherwise he will be our everyday LF unless CHipper is hurt or needs rest. Then those days when Prado plays 3b, you will see Diaz and ? playing LF.
Isnt the Braves such a wonderful medicore Club?
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
6:50 pm
And ditto sentiments about Seth Smith.
Seattle Braves
December 24th, 2011
6:54 pm
It has been mediocre since 2005 and the very top–ownership is totally disengagued.
AGREED!!!
Ray
December 24th, 2011
7:05 pm
Disgusted, I don’t mind unlike a lot of people on here having Wren say he likes the team. Its not like he is talking about a team that just won 70 games. As I mentioned earlier, it would not surprise me at all if Prado stays and they trade JJ. But I think whatever move he makes it will be one that will improve our team. IF you remember a few yrs ago when he let us all know publicly of the moves he was trying to make, like Griffey Jr, Peavy Furcal and he got ripped for just that. I remember many saying on here, stop talking about the moves. People were commenting about let us know when the deal is done NOT before. Quite frankly it is not in the braves benefit in any way to let everyone know the talks they are engaged in currently or those that have passed.
garynpohio
December 24th, 2011
7:24 pm
it does seem the blogs are increasingly turning negative, there are needs that need addressed, but we do have some addition by subtraction. Lowe not losing games means we gain some wins in that aspect alone. we have an unmatched depth of pitching that make most clubs drool. yes we need a hitter and when we get one he may not be an mvp but the overall direction is good.
moving forward i am going to be excited as this is a team i have rooted for from afar since 1982 and will continue to support….
even if the owner is cheap
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
7:25 pm
I do agree that Wren should keep the business of trade and FA negotiations behind closed doors, He learned the hard way three winters ago.
But comments like we had the 4th best record in MLB on 8/26, etc., just think he is painting a picture that is not here. Had they not choked, people would like this team better.
Remains to be seen how fan reaction will be if its a slow start & the team stays pat. Got to see on that.
NickB
December 24th, 2011
7:29 pm
I notice that everyone acts like the team in september is indicative of it’s actual expected production (instead of the prior 5 months). If you really think they are going to have results like 10-20 for an entire season and finish last or close then you are overreacting to a terrible event. You think the Red Sox are that lousy too? Or was it just a flukey thing that happened?
Wait this is the DOB blogs, FW could sign Beltran, Prince and Reyes and half of you would complain that he paid too much money and should be fired! (and would be the same people complaining 3 months before spring training that he hasn’t traded JJ for Batists….)
count_schemula
December 24th, 2011
7:31 pm
A good negotiation is when neither team is completely happy.
JJ for Blackmon is that trade.
Seth Smith is 28 and has done nothing of note in Colorado. Seth Smith is who the Rockies would rather trade, which is why we should go for the younger Blackmon.
Everytime I watched Beachy last year, I was looking for signs of a fluke, and I rarely saw it. He deals. Then we have 3 kids + Medlin to cover the rotation. So, with JJ gone and a question mark in Hanson (I don’t think he makes 30+ starts next year) we
Ray
December 24th, 2011
7:32 pm
The things that Wren has said if we look it objectively, really is not a bad thing. He isn’t saying the team is set. I don’t think he has said that one single time. I know what we do is what really matters, but as of right now, would you rather be in the Braves situation or the Redsox situation? Or lets say the Marlins? Yes we have many questions that need answered. Look at the Cards, the defending champs questions, many many.
fordcobra
December 24th, 2011
9:28 pm
and neither is 4th place
fordcobra
December 24th, 2011
9:31 pm
If the Braves don’t make some significant moves they will be the opposite of the Sun instead of rising in the East they will be sinking in the Eastt
Ray
December 24th, 2011
9:34 pm
Fordcobra, what would you classify as significant moves?
count_schemula
December 24th, 2011
9:45 pm
We could not afford deal Furcal and he made us look bad, but took a 2 year deal.
We could not afford Rollins, but he took a 3 year.
We could not afford Beltran, but he also took a 2 year deal.
See a pattern here?
I think now is when we pay for the opportunity cost of signing Uggla and dumping Yunel. Nobody likes austerity.
Ray
December 24th, 2011
9:50 pm
Count, would you have wanted Beltran for a no trade 25m + deal? no thanks. Only way Rollins was going to go anywhere other than Philly is if someone way overpaid. With Furcal, I don’t think it was a matter of not being able to afford him.. we didn’t want him not for a 2 yr deal.Look at his numbers last year, 255 batting avg and an obp of 316. No thanks. I am guessing the kid can produce that for a whole heck of a lot less
count_schemula
December 24th, 2011
10:26 pm
I agree, there were (and are) no obvious moves. If we did not have Uggla’s contract, I would have done the Beltran deal.
At this point, Furcal, Beltran and Rollins are all injury risks. Next year there are a few OFs available. I hope we are saving our pennies. This is why I will boycot this team if they do a half hearted move like sign Cody Ross.
If we view Prado as the heir at 3b, then we need to keep him. Who is our 3b beyond Chipper? That means JJ or Hanson are our main bait pieces. Hanson can’t be traded right now. With all our pitching, I’d look at trading JJ for Charlie Blackmon. He’s 24. Hit .300+ in the minors and is pretty quick with light to moderate power.
BIGDADDY!!!
December 24th, 2011
11:11 pm
SPENDSSSSSSSSSSSS SOME DAMN MONEY BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Santa
December 25th, 2011
12:00 am
Merry Christmas to all!!!!!!!!
jeffro
December 25th, 2011
3:24 am
wow, some of these comments, i swear…. dob should start blocking these idiots..
Liberty Media
December 25th, 2011
8:23 am
Braves Fans: Now that we have a new hitting coach, the Braves will win the WS next year.
Merry Christmas!
Ray
December 25th, 2011
8:33 am
Merry Christmas to all. I hope you all find the one gift that you can’t find under the tree, simply Peace (insert your own personal definition)
Count,, even without Uggla I would not spend that on Beltran, the guy has played over 100 games 1 time in the last 3 yrs. BigDaddy, who would you want the braves to spend money on? Ask the mets and the cubs how well it has worked out for them spending money without a purpose or a plan.
Disgusted
December 25th, 2011
8:51 am
If the Braves would spend some darned $$$$$ we could envision a belated Xmas gift I would not mind an owner like a younger version of Drayton Mc Lane who has walked away from MLB ownership this off season.
We have one of the richest ownership groups in the game and this assett is treated like a used blanket in the attic. As a fan base, generally speaking, we just do not like Liberty Media.
We can’t afford this, we cannot afford that. That seems to be the line the apologists buy hook line and sinker.
Its their right to do what they want with their team, but do not expect me to fall for the hook line and kool-aid sinker of a big smile when spring starts
Even if they have a good start, I want to see them finish, I believe when I see it now. Remember that they pretty near blew the WC in 2010 too, that is 2 bad Septembers in a row.
Still, I am not boycotting, I will go to the usual game a month that I can afford for one reason—I love the MLB product and can still take joy in watching good baseball even if the other team makes the good play. Boycotting will make matters worse.
I still have the right to be frustrated with this ownership whom I hate.
Disgusted
December 25th, 2011
8:56 am
Count–If they were to trade JJ for Charlie Blackmon than why not they admit that they are out to build this team not for next year but for a couple yrs down the road.
Blackmon might very well become a good ballplayer, but that is a salary dump given that JJ is not far from arbitration.
If they admit what they are out to do, I can tolerate that better. Just do not LIE and panit a rosy picture.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
9:01 am
Disgusted, I don’t think anyone says you cannot spout out your frustration. The team is a good team that will contend for the playoffs. Yes they have holes to fill. Just as I asked big daddy,, who do you want the braves to spend money on? In regards to FA’s, that was or is out there for this year, not the biggest crop outside of first base. Lets spend money wisely, not just to spend money to spend it. Think of money like outs, you have to make sure they are productive.
Disgusted
December 25th, 2011
9:18 am
Ray—-I do not diasgree about spending smart, but the rumors swirling around JJ and Prado for unproven MLB talent are disturbing. Especially after the past two disappointing Septembers and how rivals are getting better.
Prado is a guy I would like to see extended beyone his arb yrs, my thoughts are that he will be back to his 09 and 10 levels.
Just do not trade a 26 yr old proven winner with a good ERA for mid 20’s AAA talent, (Blackmon, Lorenzo Cain) or platoon talent (Seth Smith) for example, that smells of a salary dump.
As for free agents, its pretty much out of the question now. They are never cheap and the shortstop position is tough given that guys like Barmes and Jamey Carrol are getting what they are getting.
I do not sense that there is that fire in the FO’s belly to make the needed bold move. I do think they need a vet SP, the kids are not ready to take them there yet. Would like Edwin Jackson if the $$$$ can be worked out.
Minor, Teheran, Delgado, Beachey, Medelen, collectively, there is potential but is it potential that translates into 2012. I smell a tweak of a rebuilding plan. If that is the case, than be honest about it. I can tolerate that.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
9:31 am
Disgusted,, you are right about the ss out there. crazy money for average talent at best. E Jackson, and Oswalt are out there. Oswalt wants a 1 yr deal. Jackson would be a nice pick up.. the question is what he is asking for in dollars and yrs. Here are the things we don’t know. We don’t know if the Braves are in talks with either or any FA for that matter. Jackson could be seeking a 4-5 yr deal, which if that is the case, no way. I don’t mind a bold move but it still should be a smart move. Personally I don’t know of any bold moves that are truly out there this year. You have to ask why teams like the yankees, and redsox are not making any “bold” moves or really any moves to amount to anything. They both need pitching. The perception is Cashman is not going to just sit back but up to this date, like the braves gm, cashman has not done anything either.
Disgusted
December 25th, 2011
9:46 am
The Red Sox spent their money last winter –of course got nothing for it. The NYY, they are always sitting in the background, but their team is set and they do not need much fixing. You know they will win the division again, and next yr and next yr etc. They make the playoffs 95 pct of the time and always will, they need playoff breaks comming their way.
I would have liked Cuddyer, and while he was not cheap, that is where a driving private owner with deep $$$$$$ might have come in and said — Hey Frank, make the move. Who knows, we never will.
As said before, had the Braves made the playoffs and even won a sseries, fans like myself would not be so hopping mad. And if we had engaged ownership, maybe they might not spend a whold lot of $$$$ more (maybe five or ten percent) but the perception in the people’s heads would be different.
Art Blank does not go crazy in FA’s, but his engagement and reasonable success with the team has brought a positive perception in his stewardship f his team. LM has lost the PR game and Wren does get some of the fallout for it
Ray
December 25th, 2011
9:56 am
The redsox have one of the largest payrolls in all of baseball, their collapse was slightly worse than ours. Neither one was good or acceptable. They have holes in their pitching staff. The yanks making the playoffs, were knocked out pretty quick, and have 1 ws in the last 11 yrs with the highest payroll in all of baseball each of those yrs. They have holes in their pitching staff. I don’t mind wren waiting in the background like cashman. I am more concerned about making the RIGHT move as opposed to just making a move. I bet we will see the braves and the yankees and the redsox make moves to improve their team. IF the redsox don’t they have bigger issues than we do.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:18 am
Quick quote from Cashman. Yankee fans wondering why they have been so quiet. Cashman has said he wants to make moves especially for starting pitching, but thus far he has balked at the high prices on the trade market.”There’s things I could do, but I think everybody here would look at it and say, ‘Wow, if I did that, I should be a pinata,’” Cashman said recently. “I could do them, but I shouldn’t do them. I’m comfortable where we’re at and what we’re trying to do. If it takes longer, it takes longer.” The best part to that IMO is I could do them but I shouldn’t do them. Don’t make a move to make a move. There has been a lot of talk about seth smith, I have a feeling Wren is thinking the same thing, I could do that but shouldn’t do that. It will have to take more in return from the Rockies if you want Prado or JJ.
John K
December 25th, 2011
10:51 am
Why are the Braves keeping Chipper Jones? He may play 90 games. He’ll be held out of games “to keep him fresh”, and then he’ll have the usual assortment of hamstring/oblique/knee aches, and always need “a few more days” before he is ready. But he will criticize others for not playing with minor hurts. $15mil is a lot fora part time, over-the-hill icon. Yes, he is a favorite, but he can no longer be of any real help. Maybe an AL team could pick him up as a DH?
Ray
December 25th, 2011
11:01 am
JohnK have you looked at his numbers last yr? the 3rd most productive 3baseman in the NL. How is that not being of any help?
Disgusted
December 25th, 2011
11:10 am
Do people realize that Chipper has played 126 or more games in 4 of the last 5 yrs?
Still a productive guy, but guess I have to keep defending him. Some others on here will too. I don’t know how many games he will play at 40, but save for 2 yrs ago when he had the horible knee injury, he is not a part time player.
And his D is not bad in spite of playing with pain. He was smart to go on the DL in late July, saved his season.
My guess is that he plays in the 120’s this time around. Not bad for a 40 yr old who can still be a legit middle of the lineup force, maybe not all the time but a better than average part of the time.
John K
December 25th, 2011
11:11 am
There is also no guarantee that O’Flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrel will be as good as last year. They were overworked last season, even pitching when the Braves were up by more than four or five runs, or when the starters were cruising. Five or six innings IS NOT a quality start. Look back years ago when pitchers routinely pitched into the eighth inning, or over 15-20 complete games per season.(Baltimore’s Palmer, Cuellar, Dobson, McNally all won at least 20 games in 71 with 70 complete games between them in a four man rotation), and Gaylord Perry, Catfish Hunter. Perry pitched over 300 innings (69, 70, 72, 73, 74, 75 & 76), and over 20 complete games (69, 70, 72, 73, 74, 75 & 76); his arm never fell off, nor did he blow it out like all the pitchers today seem to. He averaged 250 innings per season over 22 years! He pitched into his 40s! Why does Gonzalez praise Hudon, Jurrjens, etc for a great start when after five, maybe six innings, they’re done? This season, Washington will have the “great” Strasburg on an innings limit. He’s called an ace. Ace? After only ten decisions and 92 innings in the majors? I admit, he has great stuff, but so have many others. Ace? An ace is a Hunter, or Gibson, Ron Guidry, Maddux, Glavine, etc; someone who is a money pitcher.
With little offensive help coming in 2012, the Braves bullpen will be overworked again and on fumes by late August again.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
11:46 am
Disgusted you are correct on Chipper. It cracks me up so many on here have been on Chipper’s case but these same people wanted the Braves to sign Beltran. Look at the number comparisions and the games played over the last 3 yrs. JohnK, of course there are no guarantees. There is no way you can compare the O’s staff to anyone’s staff in production over the last 40 yrs. There was not much in middle relief and the closer is not what it has been for the last 20+ yrs. In regards to FrediG praising Hudson etc after 5-6 innings? Show me a manager in the majors that doesn’t praise his starters for doing their job thru lets say 6 innings. Name one that says,, to his starter, dude that was not a quality start. You only went 6 innings and you gave up 2 runs and 5 hits. I am demanding you to go longer.
coach joe
December 25th, 2011
12:04 pm
Merry Christmas Dave… Thanks for all the great info this year..
Go Braves….2012
Ken Stallings
December 25th, 2011
1:18 pm
David,
If nothing else, could you communicate to Frank Wren to get rid of those ugly “softball uniforms” on the road! The blue tops and solid navy hats are horrible. Nearly everyone in baseball regarded the Braves road grey uniform with the scarlet and navy caps as the best in basebal. They were marvelous!
Let’s make a break from the money-crazed alternate uniform fade and get back to the marvelous and traditional grey uniform with the two-tone cap!
Disgusted
December 25th, 2011
2:47 pm
Kimbrell, Ventern and Eric O might not be as good as last yr, but chances are they should be 90 percent as good which is a very high quality.
Its up to the young unproven SP’s and can they step it up in the event that Hudson is not as good as he has been & we hope that Hanson will have a healthy breakout year. We do not know how good Hanson can be.
The young SP’s are the key and what is the return on JJ. My hunch is that Prado stays but JJ gets moved (based on projected $$$$$ paid and his injury past 2 yr history. Just a hunch.
Rick Camp
December 25th, 2011
2:56 pm
I can hit!!
Roja
December 25th, 2011
3:48 pm
I spent the week of the GM meetings and the 2 weeks afterwards listening to the guys on ESPN and the MLB Channel discussing how even with the new guys signed by the Marlins, that even if they had gotten Pujols, they would still be number three in the NL East this year behind the Phils and Bravos.
By the way, does anyone besides me recall how many World Series Championship Rings Halliday and Lee have????
Roja
December 25th, 2011
3:50 pm
Does ANYBODY realize that Old Man Larry Jones has played MORE games the last two seasons than Jose, Jose, Jose, Jose…. Jose can’t play!!!!
Ray
December 25th, 2011
6:11 pm
Roja you are correct. Yes the Marlins have made moves to improve the team. 2 things– 1) they still have not completed their number 1 problem, (pitching) 2) they have no depth not even in the minors. So if they suffer any sort of major injury they do not have the pieces to fill in the blanks. That is one of the reasons why they could not get in on the Gio trade. IF they were not willing to give up Morrison or others from the major league club, the A’s didn’t want anything in their farm system.
New year same old song
December 25th, 2011
7:04 pm
Yawn…same old song…we used to get the best and win, now we settle for re-treads and finish second or third in the division. Another season of second rate baseball.
nuffsaid
December 25th, 2011
8:36 pm
Ray,
I’m not saying that Wren should just do anything. Maybe keeping what we have is all that he is able to do. My point is that the fans are not stupid. For years, we listened to Bobby Cox put a positive spin on everything. Now, I believe in the power of positive thinking, and I am not and was not a Cox hater. However, there is a big difference between putting a positive spin on something and sticking your head in the sand refusing to admit there is a problem. If getting the new hitting coach is the answer, great! If we can win with the players we have or are not able to do anything else, then, it is what it is. But, please, quite treating us like we are imbeciles who cannot see that there are definite problems with the team that need to be addressed. Going into a season with one or two “if’s” may be expected. But, when the Braves say, “if Heyward returns to form” “If Pastornicky works out” “If Tim Hudson and Tommy Hanson are able to pitch up to par” “If Chipper stays healthy” “If Martin Prado bounces back” “If we had only gotten timely hitting” etc. etc. etc. well, that’s like the skipper of the Titanic saying “if that iceberg had been smaller” “if we had gone another way” “If the water hadn’t been so cold” etc. etc. etc. Point is it was a big iceberg, in the path of the ship surrounded by frigid water. I want the Braves to admit the iceberg exists and the water is frigid. May be no other choice except to go with what we’ve got, but don’t assume the fans are stupid enough to think everything is just peachy. Tell us the damn truth. We may not like it, but at least we can respect the fact you told it like it was.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
9:38 pm
nuffsaid, I don’t think the braves are lying to anyone. IF Wren was saying I like this team,, and we were coming off a 70-75 win season, your point would be more than valid. YES every season for every team there are “ifs” There has been a lot of talk about the Marlins. Talking about a team that has a lot of ifs. IF reyes plays the whole season, IF Henley doesn’t have a meltdown, IF his production returns, IF the pitching staff holds up. I don’t have a problem with Wren saying he likes the team. But he has admitted to what the needs are too. We do need a LF, and we do need a back up ss in case Pastornicky doesn’t evolve. He has admitted to those needs. I posted earlier a quote from Cashman talking about moves. I could do that move but I know I shouldn’t. I bet as an example with the Seth Smith talks. Wren probably saying yeah I could do that move but until you bring up your anty, then I am not going to make that move.
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 25th, 2011
9:56 pm
I’m curious, when it came to stats like batting average, slugging, OBP, HRs, RBIs…..where did the Braves rank when it came to production from the #3 spot of the batting order in 2011?
GOP Cannon
December 25th, 2011
10:02 pm
Wren, I understand that you really like the team and that if you make NO changes we should still be competitive next season; however, given last years epic collapse I think that the fan base expects more changes than simply dropping Lowe.
If you want to sit on your hands and make no moves that’s fine, just don’t expect as many Braves fans to be sitting in the seats in 2012.
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 25th, 2011
10:12 pm
I have no problem with the Braves starting the year with Pastornicky as our 2012 Opening Day shortstop. Have him hit 8th…as long as his defense is sharp, I can be patient with him at the plate (given his salary, the Braves can financially afford to see how his bat comes around).
What concerns me is the lack of power from the outfield positions. Heyward is far from a guarantee to play up to expectations. Injuries aside, MLB pitching has figured out how to pitch him. Heyward’s swing leaves him susceptible to the inside pitch (which he time after time rolled to second base for a 4-3 putout in 2011). I have serious doubts that he can be the superstar that most the Braves desperately want him to be. His defense is average at best (he’s terrible when it comes to going back on balls hit directly over his head).
While I love Bourne hitting lead-off, he has no power….meaning that if the Braves dont get some power from Heyward and Prado…we’re going to struggle offensively.
A point of concern is that even if Chipper Jones is healthy…he, along with Brian McCann (given the demands of the catcher position), will have to take a day off once a week…..not a good sign when two of your supposedly better hitters both have to be out of the line-up once a week, in order to rest them and keep them healthy.
How many other teams (good teams) in baseball have to regularly rest both their #3 and #4 hitters once a week? I seriously doubt if the Cardinals had to rest both Pujols and Holliday once a week…that they would have caught us for the Wild Card.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:13 pm
We Made, I believe this is the answer to your question. The #3 spot the following: 257 batting avg, OBP 330 Slugging 429 OPS 759 24 hr’s 95 rbi, We had a total of 20 different batters take at bats in that position.. Chipper and McCann at the most games in the 3rd spot.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:18 pm
We Made,, you are right the Cards didn’t have to rest Pujols and Holliday as much as Chipper and McCann.. 1) neither of those cardinal players catch. A big difference between playing LF or 1b to playing catcher. Chipper has had injuries but he still had the 3rd highest production numbers of 3rd basemen. GOP,, you say Wren has sat on his hands. I have asked this each time when I see that.. Tell me in your opinion, what moves you would have made, or what would you like to see Wren do?
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 25th, 2011
10:28 pm
GOP Cannon…..other than the diehards, the Braves are going to have a hard time filling Turner Field, even with all the “4 tickets, 4 parking passes, 4 hot dogs, 4 sodas, 4 programs and a $20 gas card” Cheveron packages for $39 giveaways that you see every commercial break on SportSouth during Braves games.
The Braves do not put a product on the field that makes the casual fan want to fork over hard earned cash on a consistent basis. The only chance the Braves had of ever really filling Turner Field up on a consistent basis…….was for Jason Heyward to become a superstar……which would hopefully motivate black Atlantans to regularly come to the park. I’ve said this before, given the huge black population in Atlanta…..very few blacks come to Turner Field. I dont see that changing anytime soon.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:33 pm
I know earlier the question was what were the braves numbers from the 3 spot. here what the braves numbers from the 4 spot in the batting order with 15 different braves having an at bat in that slot.. Uggla, Chipper and McCann were the 3 main ones,, 305 BA 389 OBP 533 Slug and 923 OPS 37 HR’s 102 rbi
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 25th, 2011
10:33 pm
Ray…..the important thing to consider is not where Chipper ranked among third basemen….but where he ranked among the #3 hitters in MLB.
Also, knowing the demands of catching requiring McCann to regularly take days off……it is imperative that other positions pick up the slack. If Heyward and Prado both rebound and have great seasons…then having McCann and even Chipper taking regular days off wont hurt too much. If Heyward and Prado both struggle….we’re going to have a long year offensively.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:37 pm
We made,, you can’t go with just when chipper batted in the 3rd spot. He batted 3rd, 4th and 6th in the lineup. For instance in the 4 spot, I listed what the braves did.. here is what OUR opponents did in the 4 spot—238 BA 321 OBP 378 SLG and 18 HR’s. That is what all of our opponents combined did against us with their #4 hitter.
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 25th, 2011
10:38 pm
Ray……a .cumulative .257 batting average and an OPS of .759 from the #3 spot of the batting order isnt going to cut it. We have to get better production than that in 2012 from whoever bats third.
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 25th, 2011
10:41 pm
Ray……Chipper, when healthy, had most of his plate appearances batting #3. I could live with his production, if he batted 6th in the order in 2012. I’d rather see Freddie Freeman permanently moved to the #3 slot.
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:46 pm
I agree, we do need more from that spot.. those numbers are a little misleading, just a little, because we had 20 different players have at bats in that position. Freeman and Chipper were the most productive. McCann was not as productive, nor Heyward. But we had guys due to subs etc like Hicks, Prado, Hinske, Conrad all take at bats in that position. Out of the ones that had any amount of significant at bats that did not do well were McCann and Heyward. Freeman and Chipper did alright. But yes we do need more out of that slot. Our Opponents in THEIR 3rd spot.. 268 BA 354 OBP and 782OPS
Ray
December 25th, 2011
10:47 pm
We Made,, Chipper in the 3rd spot had a 791 OPS 344 OBP with 50rbi and 10 hr ..That was just the 3rd spot
Ray
December 25th, 2011
11:04 pm
To take some of the numbers further,, here is where we got killed.. with Bases Loaded braves hit a whopping 195 BA 536 OPS, 29k’s with 113 AB,, our opponents 286 BA and a 736OPS.. surprising we did better than our opponents with runners on, runners in scoring position,, and runners in scoring position with 2 outs. As bad and they were bad, the braves outperformed their opponents in these situations. ONE area where we did well but not nearly as well as our opponents is when our hitters at a 3-1 count. Again we did well, our opponents as a group did better
count_schemula
December 25th, 2011
11:18 pm
Also, on Chipper’s contract. A story from last weeks stock market.
Akamai bought a rival contendo for $280m. The next day, their stock market cap jumped $1b.
Chiper Jones puts families of four in the seats and he sells jerseys. People drive from South Carolina, Tennessee and Alabama TO SEE CHIPPER JONES. They do not drive here to see Derek Lowe or Dan Uggla.
So, it’s not him or his contract that is a problem. The bean counters at liberty treat the Braves like a cold hard company. The Phillies, the Nats and this year the Marlins felt close and the are going for it.
Winning MAKES MONEY.
The Braves are the Cubs. Win just enough to sell just enough. Think anyone at Liberty was “heartbroke” over the collapse?
GOP Cannon
December 26th, 2011
12:27 am
We Made, good points bud…. I completely agree with you! Given the monumental collapse of last season, I just think that the Braves MUST do something.
I have been a Braves fan since 1989 and I really love this team. Over the last couple of decades I have watched the Braves through many ups and downs; however, I can safely say that I have never seen anything more despicable than the September collapse of last season.
Watching the Braves blow a 10 1/2 game lead is something that is going to trouble me for a long, long time. I will always watch the Braves, but I will say this… if management is at all concerned with maintaining the fan base or fostering enthusiasm for this team, then they NEED TO MAKE CHANGES.
...We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
December 26th, 2011
1:10 am
GOP Cannon……….I feel your 12:27am post. Last September was sickening. As sick as losing the 1996 World Series was after blowing a 2 games to none lead (and after winning those first two games at Yankee Stadium)……at least we lost to a very good Yankees team.
In September of 2011, we lost series to the Mets, Marlins, Nationals, Dodgers…….in addition to getting swept twice by the Phillies (including the last 3 games of the season when the Phillies were playing their scrubs while resting up for the play-offs).
Screw the whole injury talk. The Cardinals played ALL OF 2011 without their ace, Adam Wainwright. The Phillies lost their top three bullpen guys for half the season, in addition to not getting Chase Utley back until after the All Star break. There was no excuse for us playing like we did in September.
I hope this loss stings the whole Braves organization for quite some time. Remember, the reason why winning feels so good….is because losing SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! One can only hope that both management and players will change the “we hit it right at them….they hit good pitches” excuses and start holding each other accountable and push each other to do what it takes to make sure that nothing like Sept of 2011 ever happens again.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
9:14 am
Apparently Edwin Jackson is asking for a 4-5 yr deal in the 50-65m range.
Around The Horn
December 26th, 2011
9:19 am
AVERAGE SETH SMITH
One perspective on Seth Smith from a Mets beat writer:
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/12/22/2655608/seth-smith-why-hes-so-average
Ray
December 26th, 2011
9:44 am
Around the Horn,, this might be just maybe why Wren has not pulled the trigger. The Rockies could be pushing Seth Smith on the JJ proposal.. Wren could be demanding much much more. And this might be why there is a stalemate and Wren has turned his attention elsewhere. I keep seeing that we are the “Cubs” Are you kidding me. Cubs don’t contend. They have a massive payroll and stuck with a lot of contracts they cannot get rid of because their GM made deals that wasn’t best for the team. But it sure looked good in the papers because the Cubs GM made “bold” moves. Just like the Mets, Around if you saw in that article on Seth Smith, there was talk about how bad Jason Bay has been for them. But you know it was a bold move that Omar made. One that is a huge fat contract that is a bust and the Mets LF situation is worse than the Braves LF situation.
Another Thought on Chipper
December 26th, 2011
9:44 am
A thought I haven’t seen from either the supporters or detractors of Chipper Jones is this. After his regressive seasons in 09 and 10, Chipper increased his workout routine, took extra swings in the cage and did whatever he could during the 2010 off season to improve. His numbers, as a result, came back up. He basically was in his top possible condition for the 2011 season. Despite aging and what have you, he was giving it his best.
So, is he doing the same this off season? If not, his numbers will very likely drop.
Don
December 26th, 2011
10:19 am
Some of you are right, the Braves do not have any significant problems – UNLESS YOU CONSIDER:
(1) Having a third baseman who defensively cannot go to his right or go to his left, to say nothing about his being only a part time player or his being a third place hitter who no longer hits like a third place hitter;
(2) Having no established Shortstop – having a rookie with no basis to think that he can be a productive hitter – even if he does end up doing an accptable job defenisvely.
(3) Having a right fielder – with no basis to assume that he will produce offenisvely.
(4) Having a Second Baseman who is barely acceptable defensively, has a very poor batting average and a very poor on base average – even though he does have some power.
(5) And this assumes that Prado can bounce back and once again be a really good hitter – and can do an acceptable job defensively in Left Field.
(6) And MOST SIGNIFICANT OF ALL — they have Four of their Five Starting Pitchers coming off injuries (Unlike a Position Player, a Pitcher coming off injury may never return to being great. And even MORE SIGNIFICANTLY – of all the Starting Pitchers the Braves have had in the 6 or 7 years since Leo left as Pitching Coach, almost every one has ended up being INJURED — So all of the great abundance of youg pitching talent that the Braves have will not make any difference – if this continues.
:
Same Ole Sheet
December 26th, 2011
10:22 am
Another day and no Braves news. Par for this course…
All I wanted for Christmas was new Braves ownership.
Same Ole Sheet
December 26th, 2011
10:27 am
Don, you left out cloned manager Fab Five Fredi Cox.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
10:33 am
Don, tell me a team that does not have quite a few questions? The closest that I see is the Rangers as far as that and they still have a few. Same Ole, what moves do you want the braves to make?
Lemke's Knuckler
December 26th, 2011
10:56 am
I don’t get the notion behind trading Prado. Before the leg infection last year, he was on pace for the following season…
.277, .324, 96 runs, 46 doubles, 22 homers, 88 RBI
That’s exactly what this lineup needs hitting in the 2-hole behind Bourn this year. I hope they don’t trade him.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
11:06 am
Lemke I am guessing the braves are not going to trade Prado unless they can absolutely make a huge improvement. JJ is probably more likely to get traded but the Braves are not going to give him away. It will have to be a huge benefit.
Ozzie
December 26th, 2011
11:41 am
Prado is not going to hit 22 HR on this or any other team apart from a fluke year here or there. He is not a power guy so look for 15 HRs on avg.
He and JJ have to go b/c the Braves are cutting payroll (it would seem). Now it could be to upgrade in the OF or it could be b/c attendance is at a 4 year low.
I hope in the end the find a way to solider on with Prado and JJ b/c I just don’t see this team in this division doing all that much especially if they dump to guys who can help win games. I also think every guy we are talking about trading for is a so-what kind of move.
Once it was clear that KC Myers was off the table my interest in the rest of these ?marks – Smith, Wheeler, et al faded pretty quickly.
They are either unproven rookies who are nothing to write home about or 4th OF who will platoon with Diaz. Neither is very appealing or will make a difference in 2012 or beyond IMHO.
In short the pickings stink so why make a trade unless you have to cut payroll.
bobby
December 26th, 2011
12:28 pm
How come the Braves don’t make a go at Bay in New York?
Bill M.
December 26th, 2011
12:29 pm
What is going on with Seth Smith??? It says the Braves are still interested. Must be other players involved. The Rockies are now interested in Cody Ross. What is going on????? I’m tired of all this Seth Smith stuff. The Braves don’t need him unless in order to get the player they want.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
12:34 pm
Bobby, have you seen how bad Bay has been in NY plus he has a huge contract. The Mets are stuck with him because he can’t field any more and his numbers have dropped like a New Year’s Eve ball.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
Bill M. I agree. IF Smith is an added part then yeah why not but not the main part of a trade.
bobbymahlon
December 26th, 2011
1:51 pm
A Prado for Smith is a poor deal for the Braves because Smith cannot hit left hand pitching thus we platoon him with somebody like Diaz. A healthy Prado means a 280.-.310 hitter versus all pitching and a fill in for Chipper at third. I can’t get over how people give up on a player like Martin when he has one bad year probably because of injuries.
I always said that management should have worked with Yunel instead of trading him and wouldn’t it be nice to have him at short now. That is what good managers do and the bad ones are just pencil pushers.
bravesgogo
December 26th, 2011
2:07 pm
i think the braves is going to finish 4th in the 2012 season. They don’t have a playoff team Miami and National have a better team. U love the braves but i think they don’t have a good team. I see the N.L east like that
1-phillis 90-72
2-Miami 88-74
3-Nat 86-76
4 braves 83- 79
5-mets 77-85
bravesgogo
December 26th, 2011
2:17 pm
or they can trade prado jj and B. Beachy and Andrelton Simmons to toronto for Jose Bautista and EScobar
dap01
December 26th, 2011
2:25 pm
The article could be titled: Atlanta Hawks and Braves: The two worst mangaged sports teams in America.
dap01
December 26th, 2011
2:30 pm
I don’t want to ever read about Seth Smith on this blog again unless we have acquired other major pieces and we get him as a throw in to the deals.
The absolute last thing that this team needs is a platoon, average left handed hitter from Coors field. Anyone would agree.
Either FW is trying to get something huge done or he is lying, inept and trying to cut payroll. I hope he is working on something large.
If they cut payroll, will that cut make up for the reduced attendance next year?
Mets R Best
December 26th, 2011
2:44 pm
Losing ground in the NL East? The Braves couldn’t beat the Mighty Mets or the Nats in 2011. And so far, that numbnut GM you guys have has done nothing to make your team better. The Nats and Marlins will definitely be better. Braves to finish 4th or 5th.
bravesgogo
December 26th, 2011
2:49 pm
i think the braves biggest problem is the general manager he is not doing anything to make the team better. he should sign a good lf and put prado in the bench because they gonna need prado to play 3b when chipper sit.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
3:04 pm
bravesgogo.. there is no way on earth is toronto going to make that trade. To get Bautista it would take another 4 players plus jj and prado. MetsR.. the nat’s have a ton of questions. The marlins have more question marks than the Nat’s and the Braves. The only team that have more questions than the marlins is the mets.
bravesgogo
December 26th, 2011
3:22 pm
the braves trade escobar to toronto was to make cox happy
Ray
December 26th, 2011
3:27 pm
The braves trade of escobar basically to get rid of a not so good seed. He was not a fit in many ways so the braves got rid of him.
bravesgogo
December 26th, 2011
3:40 pm
i think as a fan we don’t understand many trade or non tender is not about sports anymore is business. and the braves are able to spend more money but they don’t want to. is no good for the fan
to see other team spending money and you team not even a trade to make the team better.
the brave only have a closer first base second base and a catcher. after that everything is a question mark.
art
December 26th, 2011
3:47 pm
Well now that 2011 is just about over I guess the one question for the Braves in 2012 is will they finished ahead or behind the Mets.
Ray
December 26th, 2011
3:49 pm
bravesgogo.. do you know that the braves have not been in talks with multiple teams?
sad
December 26th, 2011
4:01 pm
the way this team stands right now… i have no desire to watch this year.
There is no excitement for this season at all.
Farnsworthy
December 26th, 2011
4:47 pm
Get outta here. What a question. The Braves are not only losing ground in the NL East, they are losing ground to the Falcons. At least the Falcons can make the playoffs.
Farnsworthy
December 26th, 2011
4:55 pm
Linebrink complaining on radio about the bullpen being overused last year? Heck, in my opinion, the first time FG ever called that no account Linebrink from the bullpen he was overused.
Linebrink: Go pitch batting practice somewhere-that is what you are good at.