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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
776 comments Add your comment
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:28 pm
You had me until you said JJ/Prado for Adam Jones. Jones is unbelievably overrated. Also, Prado got hurt in ‘10, and we lost him for the stretch run/playoffs. Dude gets injured alot.
The Uggla trade was awkward, but hardly an organization killer. We had few other options for RH power, which at the time, was our glaring weakness. Ultimately, Uggla is an All Star with a longer track record of succes than Prado. I like Prado alot, but he’s best served in the super utility role. On this team, that role can provide for a great deal of playing time.
I like Blackmon. If we could get him in a package for JJ OR Prado, I’d do it.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:32 pm
I want to like Adam Jones, but he’s going to give people fits with that low OBP. He’s a big fish in a small pond in Baltimore. I’d give them JJ for him and a prospect, but that’s it.
Mike
December 23rd, 2011
8:37 pm
I hope, most of you come back to this that you write today 5 years from now, and say to yourself, please please please I hope nobody read what I wrote back then. there is more self serving bs here than I have ever seen. That includes college students papers I have graded
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:39 pm
To everyone who thinks this team is doomed beyond repair, please take a look at Oakland, Houston, San Diego, NY Mets, Seattle, and CWS. Those teams are screwed at least for the next several years, and in some cases, longer. Things are not ideal, but we are in a better position to win than plenty of other teams. This is not a losing team. It just didn’t win as much as we would have liked. Work needs to be done, deals need to be made, but we don’t need to “clean house” or make rash decisions just to “make a splash.” That kind of thinking kills teams that aren’t the Yanks or Sox.
Mike
December 23rd, 2011
8:41 pm
Agree Owl Hunter
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:44 pm
Mike
Thank you. I know it sucks when the team doesn’t mean expectations. I’m frustrated too, but people need to look at things a little more realistically.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:47 pm
Prado and JJ for Adam Jones is too high. I admit this.
But I would do it because:
1. Jones/Bourn/Heyward could be the best OF we’ve seen in Atlanta in a long time.
2. Prado is homeless, and probably butt hurt.
3. JJs value is low right now. Boras is his agent. We are going to have to face to music at some point.
Big problem? What if Hanson does not recover? What if Heyward does not recover?
I think Heyward will be ok. Hanson, we’ll have to see.
@Mike you added nothing. Attack the points, not the people.
Ray
December 23rd, 2011
8:50 pm
Owl, you forgot to mention the cubs and the mets in that mix too. And look at THEIR payroll. both chisox and cubs payroll is over 125m. Mets are above that. Very few teams have the ability to pull from their farm system and sign free agents. You have some teams that HAVE to sign free agents to attempt to get better. The Marlins for one. The A’s didn’t want anything on the farm from the Marlins. They have nothing to speak of. The braves have a strong number of prospect and many of them are highly regarded pitchers.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:51 pm
Go back to 1991. The team has not really gotten it done.
The 1991 WS was great. Best ever? Maybe. But we lost.
Toronto had a better team. You gotta tip your hat.
The 1995 WS was nice, in a post strike year. Hold that trophy high, it’s all we got.
We choke and got swept against the Yankees. Damn it.
After the sweep, a string of weak exits.
So, while we are not the 80s Braves who drew 6,000 a night. But we are more like the Cubs. Enough product to turn a profit. Nothing more.
mm
December 23rd, 2011
8:51 pm
look, let’s just wait until liberty sells the team (maybe dickey or someone local will buy them) and then see what happens. until we have an owner that’s willing to put up the resources, treading water seems about all we can ask for.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:51 pm
count
I understand what you’re saying. I just don’t feel good about investing too much of our future in Jones. He reminds me too much of Frenchy. We would need some kind of B prospect.
I think trading JJ is a must for the reasons you just said. I worry about Hanson, too, but if he’s hurt, we have more reinforcements than most teams do. The young guys are unproven, but I’d rather have them than have to pay the Joe Saunders of the world.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:53 pm
count
We still did better through those years than most teams.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:54 pm
The collapse hurt. This is really the first time I’ve allowed myself to even think about baseball since. I did not watch a single playoff game or the World Series.
So, yeah, I’m in a bad mood about it.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:54 pm
Got work to do. Good night and good chatting.
Ray
December 23rd, 2011
8:54 pm
Owl,, we are not getting adam jones. Did you see the crazy return they wanted? But of course when teams ask for a ransom from Wren, it is his fault for not making a move.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:59 pm
It’s not much of a leap.
If we admit we probably need to trade JJ, and if Prado is homeless since Uggla is at 2b.
Then those two for a decent enough 26 year old true OF is not such a bad deal.
I would not go father than that, ie a top pitching prospect.
With JJ and Hanson in the balance, we need to keep all our pitchers.
For that, I commend Wren. He did a nice job in the Bourn trade.
ab initio
December 23rd, 2011
9:14 pm
Its official: Frank Wren has rationalized the epic collapse as best he can, and has decided to do what he does best in order to address it…nothing.
This ballclub is an epic fail.
Ray
December 23rd, 2011
9:19 pm
Ab,, please share with us what you would do?
Charles
December 23rd, 2011
9:31 pm
Hard to say the Braves are better. They are much weaker because they have no shortstop. Gonzo’s 12 errors in 149 games should be compared to Pastornicky’s 8 errors in 27 games in Gwinnett along with similar stats in the field in AA ball. If Heyward and Prado bounce back there will be improved offense but that will be offset by mediocre or terrible infield defense. Someone needs to explain to me how Pastornicky’s defense is MLB caliber, even if he hits as advertised. We already have one weak glove in the infield with Uggla and we are replacing a solid defensive player who saved a lot of hits with one who is error-prone.
FEAR
December 23rd, 2011
9:35 pm
What is this that I hear about Scott Linebrink blasting FG on the radio? Whats the scoop?
Stanley
December 23rd, 2011
9:42 pm
My wife threw me out of the house. Then I heard her boyfriend, who takes viagra, moved in. I still pay the mortgage, so I went to confront them. Then her boyfriend broke my nose.
brian
December 23rd, 2011
9:52 pm
hey dawg4u- furcal’s agent isn’t/wasn’t boras, it was Arn Tellem and the wasserrman media group. check it out: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3781333. in a way hurts more b/c they don’t have the ability to deal with boras at all nor tellem.
braves never ever sign big time free agents since turner sold them. lowe and kk and that’s it for high prices. and they never ever permit no trade clauses. so they will not be able to bring in free agents that are more than 2-4 million a year. they trade for guys and sign them to extensions mid season (hudson, uggla) or trade for them and let them go after a career year (drew, sheff). major limitations here.
Diaz who?
December 23rd, 2011
10:09 pm
Stanley why didn’t you get some viagra..problem solved.
Bill
December 23rd, 2011
10:11 pm
Linebrink said he warmed up 155 games…
NickB
December 23rd, 2011
10:19 pm
lol, If the Braves had handcuffed themselves with one of this huge free agent deals you’ all be whining in 3 or 4 years about what a horrible GM Wren was for signing Pujols until he was 42!!!
Wren is being smart (spell it!!! s m a r t ) He isn’t going to sell low because he doesn’t have to move JJ or Prado right now. He can plug them back into the roster and wait until July or next fall…. He holds all the leverage.
Prado homeless eh? Prado is a solid major leaguer, but he isn’t going to be all star caliber very often. He is a slave to his batting avg as he doesn’t walk nearly enough. Overly aggressive guys like Prado are going to have good years when the singles drop in and lousy years when they don’t, His limited HR power also lowers his value a good deal. Uggla was a big improvement due to his mad power for a 2b. Prado is always going to be an up or down type of player offensively and is best served being traded to a team with a lousy 2b situation rather than staying with the Braves and being a below avg LF’er.
If you really think Prado is a career all star type of player…. I think you must overvalue batting avg.
Yawn
December 23rd, 2011
10:30 pm
The Braves will be inconsequential by mid May of this year.
jeffro
December 23rd, 2011
10:51 pm
Maybe I’m completely missing something here but is it really a smart move to try to trade Prado and Jurrjens while their stock is down? These are two players that have shown huge promise in the past and have had off years resulting from injury. An allstar pitcher and a guy that as recent as 2010 was considered our MVP? Not to mention two of my favorite players on the team.
With Wren’s horrible record in aquiring new talent this just seems like one more rediculously stupid move by our GM.
JCL
December 23rd, 2011
11:53 pm
@count_schemula & @ Owl Hunter,
I vote for Chipper as a 1st ballot hall of fame inductee, but if you think he’s not hurting the team you are simply not being realistic.
Over the last 3 years these are Chippers Average Numbers –
BA – .268, HR – 15, RBI – 62, Games – 121, Errors – 13.
This is not a problem of having one bad year while awaiting a knee surgery. Chipper has preformed at a very average level since 2009. He is receiving $14million per year.
As far as taking less money to help the team sign Smotlz, Maddux, etc, Since 1993 only 6 players have made more money than Chipper Jones. He has received over $155 million. I don’t complain. He was one of the top 7 players through 2008. But he is hurting the team now. We could have signed 2 players each of which would preform at a higher level than Chipper with his $14million over the last 2 years.
With Chippers money we could sign another outfielder and move Prado to third. Btw, Chipper was NOT the 3rd most productive 3b in the NL last year. I will address that myth in a subsequent post.
Idiotic
December 24th, 2011
12:03 am
Why would we finish fourth? Because “on paper” the marlins and nats improved from being 20-30 games back of first place. We fell apart in september, not lose 100 games. you don’t make a trade just to see a fresh face. We have some very good players who should be better with a new hitting coach.
Idiotic
December 24th, 2011
12:10 am
Ask the jets,eagles,heat,phillies,yankees howw it feels to have the beat offseasons and not win the championships that were promised to them just because they thought th.ey needed those new faces
Idiotic
December 24th, 2011
12:14 am
Besides..im higher on andrelton simmons than pastornick. Mlb glove and an already .300 bat is still being developed
abravefan
December 24th, 2011
12:32 am
The Braves are giving up on any playoff position. Without new ownership they are doomed. The nationals, Marlins and Phillies strenghten while the Braves stand by and do nothing…….
ISH
December 24th, 2011
1:33 am
What was our record against Washington last year? I’m sure that will improve this year with Strasburg and a stud lefty in their rotation..
Dave, throwing off on the signee’s of our division rivals doesn’t make anyone feel better about the club that we have.. just sayin’.
BravesKnowledge
December 24th, 2011
1:35 am
The only way the Braves can contend in the NL East is getting another batter. Dan Struggla will not get it done for us. I think most fans are waking up, and realizing that Heyward is a pretender.
Idiotic
December 24th, 2011
2:53 am
I doubt our 22 year old all star is a pretender. 2 seasons isnt a fair measurment
Why Have Braves Been So Quiet? | philyphills.com
December 24th, 2011
3:41 am
[...] David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution pointed out in the comments section[1] of one of his recent articles, the Braves have very little financial [...]
Royalsnut
December 24th, 2011
5:30 am
Melky and Francoer lost weight.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
They also played in Kansas City where there is almost no pressure to perform. I also believe that Melky found the N.L. to be an unpleasant experience.
The reason Melky and Francouer flourished was because Kevin Seitzer is a fantastic hitting coach. Melky also lost weight and recommited himself to being a professional. Ned Yost also got in their heads and made them become leaders in the clubhouse and on the field. That along with their better approach at the plate and in the field gave them the confidence to succeed. We will miss Melky this year, but having flipped him for Sanchez was the right thing to do.
S.P.E.D.
December 24th, 2011
7:03 am
It is fair to measure him that way, when people like you make him out to be the best player ever. Atlanta fans like you, have a tendency to hype up a certain player and that player ends up being a choke artist.
p.s. Heyward is not that good. Thanks, bye!
Atticus
December 24th, 2011
7:50 am
I love how people defend Wren and the rebuilding process and talk about the free agents we signed like Kawakami, JD Drew, Tex, Lowe etc…..like it is simply because we took that approach that we haven’t made a World Series in 16 years!!!
Hey people, have you ever thought its because you have the WRONG PEOPLE IN CHARGE! Free agents weren’t the problem, the ones who picked them were!
We haven’t made a World Series in 16 years because Schuerholtz got lazy having 4 Hall of Famers and focusing on division titles, same with Bobby. Wren is just more of the same.
I like what the franchise is doing but last year was pathetic and it never should’ve happened! They should’ve sent Heywards ass down to the minors and have him get his swing figured out. This franchise has a bunch of talent, especially if they handle Heyward correctly and not ruin him like Frenchy. But you can’t have your best hitter be a catcher who doesn’t play once a week and your other best hitter is almost 40. Uggs second half was a start and if he gives us a full season at .280 then we could make a run.
Same with Prado and Chip, which players will we see?
Ray
December 24th, 2011
8:06 am
Atticus, you are partially right. I think we all know that you do have to make the right signings and develop a strong farm system. Perfect example are the Yankees. In the last 11 yrs they by far have the highest payroll and they have 1 WS championship. They have been knocked out of the playoffs in the first round several times. I would like to see the braves payroll to get around the 100m mark, it would give Wren and company a bit more flexibility. But again whether your payroll is 85m or more, its all about HOW you spend it.
NickB
December 24th, 2011
8:47 am
Heyward will never be as lousy as Frenchy because he has plate discipline. In fact if any of you bothered to notice this, the one major difference between the team in 2010 that was near the top in getting on base and scoring runs and the 2011 team (aside from Uggla and Freeman) was the mgr and hitting coach. Now I’d like to HOPE that the aggressive swing away methodology was Parrish’s idea and not Fredi’s. But if this team can go back to being plate discipline oriented and get folks on base they would be back to a top half offense in the NL (and with their staff they would be close to a 100 win team).
Only way to know though, is to wait until the season starts. I’m hoping the move to bring in 2 hitting coaches was to assign one of them to monitor the discipline of batters via video…. let’s pray I’m right.
Frank "the Grinch" Wren
December 24th, 2011
8:51 am
My current ideas for improving the Braves offense:
a. Resign Greg Norton;or,
b. Resign Nate McLouth;or,
c. Bring back Julio Franco;or,
d. Have Fredi teach the Braves how to bunt;or,
e. Hire another hitting coach.
I will now go back to picking my nose. Merry Christmas Braves fans!
Ray
December 24th, 2011
8:54 am
NickB, you are right. Scott Fletcher’s primary job is video. Lets see if the Braves return to the 2010 form of working pitchers and increase their obp, especially against guys like the Nat’s Gio who has led the majors in walks for the last 2 yrs.
Atlanta Braves are in a great position, even with no moves | blacxbox.com
December 24th, 2011
8:57 am
[...] a top notch baseball team let’s look at what other teams in the division have done. Here is what DOB says about other teams in his post, which is really what all you crazies need to go read because he is making the same point as I am. [...]
NickB
December 24th, 2011
8:59 am
@Ray
No kiddin, the way our offense worked so well (with a couple lesser hitters I might add) is by wearing out starters and feasting on bullpens.
In fact the reason that so many people ended up focusing on the lack of hitting with RISP, is because we had so few people on base we didn’t have very many chances with RISP! so every failure was magnified, The team in 2010 could afford to be avg with RISP as they had lots of scoring chances per game. If they can return to this offense and sacrifice only in late/close and when the pitchers hit instead of all the time, they will be a force. regardless of if Prado plays in LF or not.
NickB
December 24th, 2011
9:02 am
In fact I think the MOST IMPORTANT fact when judging a hitter as a minor leaguer is plate discipline. There aren’t very many guys with a good eye for the strike zone who have failed as MLB players. Heck ,before last season anyway,it was Adam Dunn’s only real merit. But it made him dangerous because pitchers knew that he wasn’t afraid to walk 90 feet to 1b, so they ended up having to try and sneak a fastball by him inside a few times a game. Often he hit it about 600 feet. Often he missed it for strike 3. But I’d rather have a guy who swings at strikes over a guy like Frenchy who swings at moths that get too close to the plate!
Ray
December 24th, 2011
9:12 am
I do believe the braves need to tweak things and add a couple of pieces. But its not like this is a 75-80 win team. My guess is that the marlins will start off hot and then wilt as the season goes on. The excitement will carry them thru the first few months. Their true weakness in pitching will hurt them. Many on here are quick to point out the braves weaknesses but refuse to point out any other team’s weakness. There is not a team in baseball that does not have several question marks. True some have bigger question marks than others.
Bill
December 24th, 2011
9:12 am
You are right Nick B..
Greg Walker and the other hitting coach have already started working with J-Hey…I Talked to Greg 4 or 5 weeks ago at a football game and he was very excited about working with them. Walker is a very out going person that players will like and respect. Don’t expect Walker to perform miracles but he does demand results.
Jim - An avid Braves Fan
December 24th, 2011
9:22 am
The answer to the question is YES! Emphatically YES!
At this point it seems that we can only hope the Mets aren’t improved so we won’t be in the cellar. It’s a sad time right now and DOB’s explanation of our financial situation just makes it look much more gloomy than I had anticipated. I’m finding it difficult to feel optimistic about our 2012 Braves. At this point we go into 2012 with essentially the same team as last year expect we are expected to compete in the NL East with rookies and people held together by a stitch or two. Our bench is weak. Can the young pitchers make it over the long haul? Where is our offense. Where’s the pop? LF has been an issue for a couple years and where is the fix?
Woe is me…but I see the cellar sneaking up on the Braves and us, as avid Braves fans.
Ray
December 24th, 2011
9:31 am
Jim.. you truly believe the braves will be near the cellar? The marlins have made some improvements but every expert says the same thing about them, they still have many needs unfulfilled. The Nat’s are young and up and coming but they have many holes. The only way the Marlins are going to contend for the entire season is if they do not suffer any significant injuries to their pitching staff. That has not happened for several years. They have no farm system to speak of. The nat’s same thing. We all know that for any team to go thru the season without any significant injuries is rare. The braves have had them and still compete. If you compare this yr’s team to last yr’s team at the same time, I believe we are in better shape this year. Improvements to come.
Sharad
December 24th, 2011
9:39 am
I really can’t see Atlanta being a team with a high payroll anytime in the near future unless someone buys the team who just loves the sport and is willing to take a loss because they are a passionate fan who wants the team to win. The key for the payroll to rise under Liberty Media is for fan support. I am a huge fan, but I don’t live in Atlanta any more. When I was there I went to as many games as I could, but is is sad for me to watch the braves on TV and see an empty stadium. When the team can make the money to spend, I think the payroll will increase.
Bill
December 24th, 2011
10:00 am
If you compare this years team to last years team at the same time, I believe we are better… Ray
With no SS and LF ? Bench players? And if’s on about 6 players with injuries etc.? Do You really believe we are better?
I pray you are right…The Fish and National will be teams to deal with this year. Both are much better. Maybe Wren will finally make a deal.
Ok..Merry Christmas all you Braves Fans..Thanks DOB for a year of info on alittle of everything..have a goods one. Be back after Christmas.
Ray
December 24th, 2011
10:08 am
Bill I do believe we are better and that is without the roster complete. Do I believe the marlins are better.. well yeah. Have they answered their most glaring weakness, not completely. But I can say the same thing about the braves and just about any team in baseball.
Boobie Cox
December 24th, 2011
10:21 am
Fredi is a great manager!
Ted M
December 24th, 2011
10:25 am
Eric Hinske is still on the Braves, right?
Ted M
December 24th, 2011
10:30 am
The best hope for the Braves is that everybody has career years. There is nobody thats any good to get for LF & SS.
Unfortunately there is a chance the Braves only get 30 homer runs from their entire outfield…lets hope not.
CRMAC300
December 24th, 2011
11:01 am
Haven’t visited this site for awhile, but I see all the BooHoo’s are still here. Braves don’t need anything but more consistent situational hitting and a little luck with players health. Phillies are getting old at spots, just wasted a lot of money on an over the hill SS, fat first baseman is breaking down, only consistent starter is Halliday, they will be coming back to the pack. Marlins still don’t have near the pitching the Braves do, Nat’s don’t have enough offense and are spending too much money on marginal players which their revenue can’t support, Mets are terrible. As soon as the Marlins realize that they can’t half fill their new ballpark, they will trade everybody and go back to being irrelevant. All you doom and gloomers can go back to your momma’s basement and sharpen your PlayStation skills. You don’t know anything about baseball.
Hit A Single
December 24th, 2011
11:16 am
Congratulations to Jerry Royster on being hired as the Red Sox third base coach. Always thought he played hard and he showed he loved and appreciated the game. I really wish Glenn Hubbard was still on the Braves coaching staff. Love to see guys that were loyal to the organization get rewarded.
NickB
December 24th, 2011
11:27 am
let us compare 2012 starting team (assuming no major moves made)
rotatation
2011 2012
Hudson ”
Hanson ”
JJ ”
Beachy ”
Lowe Minor
I’d say Minor will not be as bad as Lowe, in fact I think the kid is going to do very well.
Bats
1b-Freeman ”
2b-Uggla ”
SS- Gonzo Pastornicky
3b- Chip ”
C- Mac ”
LF-Prado ”
CF- Schafer Bourn
RF-JHey ”
Pastornicky would have to be just terrible to get out hit by Gonzo and Bourn is light years ahead of the production the team got out of CF for the first half of 2011.
Seriously, If Pastornicky can be a wash in production with Gonzo, this team is pretty much 3 or 4 games better than last years first half team without making ANY MOVES AT ALL!
NickB
December 24th, 2011
11:28 am
that didn’t work out as I had hoped the quotation marks are meant as dittos , sorry
vesaversa
December 24th, 2011
11:30 am
The Braves are lacking a real owner with a face behind him or her . The Braves will remain sub-pare contenders as long as they are own by the current media company who’s bottom line is filling the seats not winning championships.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
11:35 am
“To everyone who thinks this team is doomed beyond repair, please take a look at Oakland, Houston, San Diego, NY Mets, Seattle, and CWS. Those teams are screwed at least for the next several years, and in some cases, longer.”
Owl Hunter—-This is not the standard that Braves fans want their team to be compared to. Yes, the Braves have been a team that still matters to a degree, but last yrs choke is not going to be forgotten anytime soon. 2012 looks like a questionable yr when you take into account that other teams are getting better or, in the case of Philly, they keep their core together while adding upgraded pieces like Papelbon to make themselves better.
In a nutshell, its indifferent ownership that is the main source of frustration. Give new ownership with the willingness to bring in a good bang, and you will not see this kind of negativity.
If the return for JJ and or Prado is for prospects than I am convinced that Wren is building out for a team that will be competitive not for next yr but for 2014, 15 and a little beyond. It looks like save for Hudson, we are going to have an inexperienced pitching staff.
And if Freddie, HEyward and Hanson become superstars, are you confident the Braves as they are constructed are going to be abot to keep them in town.
Wren is a lesser version of Billy Beane South in that he is constained by a payroll that is less and less sufficient for a competitive MLB team. Before long, 90 million is going to be in the bottom tier, just give it time.
Ron Roberts
December 24th, 2011
11:41 am
I don’t care HOW they do it, but this franchise needs to realize that it’s fan base will not be snapping up season tickets, flex packages or single game tickets with enthusiasm when they don’t move the needle in the off-season.
Waiting to see how the team looks til spring training before going to the bargain bin for pieces other teams didn’t deem valuable isn’t the answer.
When you run a business, you have to know your history and how your customer base perceives you FROM that history and present; McDonald’s rolling out the McRib doesn’t win “new” fanatics over – just the same sad few who love the taste of that mashed up pork byproduct pressed to look like ribbed meat dripping in barbecue sauce.
Trading Jurrjens and/or Prado (or a young arm that doesn’t help sell tickets, either) for Adam Jones (or any big bat that puts some energy into the fan base and improves the team at the same time) is worth pulling the trigger on. Braves’ fans have watched while the franchise has been hesitant to trade “young arms” for many years now, because the thinking has been we’d benefit from having them all mature at the same time and we’d have a dominant rotation and ‘pen. The back of the bullpen IS nice, but we’re still a 1-3 years off on the rotation being there, and even then, you have Tommy Hanson, who’s health is now the “x” factor.
The Braves have to stop taking what fans they do get to the stadium for granted, and start going with a slight bit of “spend money to make money,” or else they’ll just see the same blase’ attendance figures. There is a LARGE and PASSIONATE “Braves’ Nation” stretching from all over the southeast and across the country, but it takes an awful lot to excite a family of four to spend a weekend in Atlanta with tickets to one or more games when the product on the field is … the same.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
11:42 am
Fredi was not doing that bad a job all year until September. Yes some of it was not his fault but his managing did not help much to make things better.
Not ready to fire him yet, but a real slow first half and he probably loses this clubhouse.
And Chipper critics, lets be fair, his numbers are still better than most 3rd baseman around and his d is not bad even at his age.
It he worth $15 mil, I don’t know about now but what about the yrs when he should have been making more than he could or should have been. Chipper is NOT the problem.
Some of these kid pitchers might be a bit overrated. I am not ready to annoit Beachey as Ace yet, don’t care about his K rate, there is more to the game then that. He might be really good but he has a way to go. Lets see him go deeper in the games.
Teheran, Delgado, Minor, Vizcaino, they are works in progress. And hope that Medelen and Hanson are healthy.
Assuming JJ is traded, only Hudson is a sure thing and he is comming off back surgery–best of luck at 36. He might be okay, I like Huddy but hey, back surg is back surg.
jb
December 24th, 2011
11:42 am
I tend to agree “Disgusted”.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
11:47 am
Ron Roberts—Is there really Braves Nation any more, at least close to what it was.
And its a daily scramble to see them on TV and some regions in the South do not get SS like they got TBS when they were on TBS every night.
It is not like it used to be and corporate shirts have ruined Braves Nation like it was. It was a flagship product for a decade and a half.
I don’t believe in ratings either, but then again, I am not one to trust the experts. They do not always get it right.
On the other hand, for those who say boycott, that is never the answer. Look at what that got Thrasher fans who walked away.
The corporate shirt robber barons always win, that is what the blessed nation of modern day America is about–shirts and $$$$$ not people. They do not care.
Coxie
December 24th, 2011
11:48 am
I think we’re goin to be just fine…and just because the Marlins have made a big splash with a couple FAs that doesn’t translate to wins, health issues will be their concern all year. I like Wren standing pat until an offer we can’t refuse is presented. Personally, I think we need to keep Prado no matter what, JJ is expendable with our deep well of pitching. I’d like to go after Trumbo or Morales from the Angels…Trumbo’s a big RH bopper and Morales can do the same hittin switch, both can play 1B and OF, and neither is guaranteed a job now with the Angels packed OF and Pujols.
Angels want bullpen arms, I’m sure we could put something together and maybe get a steal here. I’d like to see Wren do something like this…
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
11:49 am
If JJ and Martin are moved for kids, then be honest about it and say that your plan is to build for a couple yrs down the line—I would accept that and would not be so “Disgusted”
Just be honest and not disaingenuine. And I would understand Wren’s position. Wren is a smart baseball man and so is Fredi and Mc Guirk. But I think they are trying to paint a picture that is brighter than what is there.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
11:52 am
Disgusted
I’m not saying that the Braves should be held to that standard. I’m just letting all the whiners know that we are in a position to compete no matter how much uninformed crying goes on on this blog. Billy Bean South? If he were Billy Bean South, Freeman, Hanson, Teheran would all be gone. The Braves don’t have a top payroll, but they are far from the bottom. Besides, ask the Mets, Cubs and White Sox, to name a few, if simply adding payroll is the answer.
And, yes, if Heyward, etc. become stars, they will keep the most valuable of the young guys. That’s why Wren is loading the organization with young pitching, and trading guys like JJ.
Experience isn’t everything. See: Lowe, Derek. I’d take any of our young pitchers over guys who are simply “experienced.”
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
11:56 am
Coxie
I agree with your assessment of Big splashes. I seem to remember a GM a few years back who made deals for the purpose of making a big splash. He had a big payroll and a large fanbase. Who was this magic man with all the tools to contend from year to year? You guessed it, Omar Minaya.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
11:59 am
By the way, we are three months away from Spring Training. Plenty of time to make a move.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
12:03 pm
If Trumbo could develop some plate discipline, he would be a nice option.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
12:04 pm
I still think we’ll be able to snag Blackmon in a deal with the Rox.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
I am not going to call anyone whom I do not know personally as a whiner, hey we all have the right to post what we want here.
I do think had they not choked up so badly in September, there would not be as much frustration as we are seeing and I admit that I can be put among those fans some might want to call a whiner.
I do not see sun in the sky. And I do not see any of our kid pitchers as a Strasburg, Verlander type right away. Very few of them become that right away.
As for Freeman and Heyward they are still under club control. But Martin and JJ, here are guys who are reasonably young, stilll with reasonable salaries who are on the verge of commanding bigger $$$$$.
Hard to determine which rumors are true, but if its for Lorenzo Cain or Seth Smith types, I see it as somewhat of a salary dump.
Right now its a guess which way the org is turning and what the Braves really are. At least for now.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
And I have the right to argue with what is posted here.
I highly doubt that Seth Snith will be the centerpiece of any trade that we make. He may be included, but guys like Blackmon will be the big prize.
After the Melky trade, Cain will be starting in KC. I wish we could have snagged Wil Meyers, though.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
12:12 pm
Do you think the Angels would take JJ and Christian Martinez for Trumbo???? Maybe another reliever or two???? Just a thought.
No way are you moving Kimbrel or Venters, that is out of the question.
My thoughts is that they really want Lorenzo Cain. And a journeyman vet SS. You prolly put Cain in LF, Bourn in CF and Heyward in RF for this yr. They still might want to pursue Seth Smith as part of the combo.
My guess is that they are looking more for OBP guys than boppers. Just my amatuerish fan guess.
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
12:12 pm
Owl—You most certainly have that right to argue and yes, you are doing it in a non personal sensible way.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
12:15 pm
Disgusted
I never make it personal. There’s no point.
I would like than Angels to make that deal, but unfortunately, they don’t need a starter.
I’d say that OBP is pretty necessary right now. If they doi as they are capable of, we have power in McCann, Freeman, Uggla, Chipper, and Heyward. It would be nice to have a few more guys on base. I hear that Pastor is good on the basepaths. That could help.
Laughing out Loud
December 24th, 2011
12:19 pm
Right on! Any one can post anything they want except religion or politics. However, the negativity towards the Braves ownership, management and players is all negative opinion. No one knows for sure what will happen. Did they get better off season, maybe so, but the off season isn’t over yet. What if Prado, Heyward, McCan, Uggla all don’t have better years? Well, so what? What if any of those you might get in a trade doesn’t pan out producing enough to win the World Series? The the “negators” will be all over the origanizations combined asses next off season. Unless they do this or do that, in the opinion of the posters, they might as well not have a Braves team. Well, I for one love the Braves and want to see them continue to thrive, compete and win. We are so lucky to have a professional baseball team in Atlanta of the quality and statute of the Braves! Go Braves! Spend your money wisely and produce a winner!
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
12:20 pm
I hope that Uggla is more consistent than he was last yr, I have no problem with his total output but have the output in a more consistent way.
And Heyward there is NO WAY he will be as bad as last yr, he is too talented.
Rather than get a vet like Scutaro ($6 mil per yr I think) that was one of the rumors, just give the job to Pastornicky and sign Wilson as the U man, he might not hit but he is a vet who can field.
How much worse can Pastornicky be than some of the vets left out there (that will fit under Liberty’s budget). Then you can keep Prado and hope he is like he was in 09 and 10,( reasonable assumption).
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
12:24 pm
Disgusted
I agree about Tyler. He’s the best option right now. If he can field competently (we can’t expect AGon), he will make a difference, I also agree that it would be nice to keep Prado unless we get an amazing deal for him.
Steve
December 24th, 2011
12:32 pm
Please Santa, bring the Braves a GM who will get us to the playoffs. One time does not get the job done.
Owl Hunter
December 24th, 2011
12:35 pm
Steve
Who would you suggest?
JoeBrave
December 24th, 2011
12:36 pm
SHIST! This team is losing ground in this division faster than Peter Griffin can F.A.R.T.
JoeBrave
December 24th, 2011
12:38 pm
Don’t expect Pastorstinky to be Robert Andino, much less AGon…. kid has a brick for a glove and a weak azz arm to boot!
David O'Brien
December 24th, 2011
1:27 pm
With no SS and LF ? Bench players? And if’s on about 6 players with injuries etc.? Do You really believe we are better? — Bill
Right now the Braves have the same LF they had last year, Martin Prado. They have David Ross, Eric Hinske and Matt Diaz on the bench, with one vacancy to fill.
Felix Millan
December 24th, 2011
1:34 pm
DOB– thanks for all you do. I don’t get to post often because I’m at work keeping the lights on in this town but I read religously.And an special thanks for turning me on to Elizabeth Cook a couple of years ago. Big fan of hers and yours. Merry Christmas to you and all the regular bloggers.
sad
December 24th, 2011
2:01 pm
We replaced a known ss with an unknown. I hope the kid is great. But from the fans perspective it is very questionable.
We had a right fielder last year that was not good enough to play. So he was benched. This year we think he is going to magically become good. The guy has the ugliest swing i have ever seen. But once again. I hope he does well. We really need an outfielder that has some pop. But with raises going out to players that should be lucky to be on the team. We have no money to buy christmas this year for the fans.
Peter Short
December 24th, 2011
2:17 pm
Let me do DOB’s reporting for him… I got this nugget reported on 12/22/11. Tigers want Jurrgens back and are offering Delmon Young.
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2011/12/report_detroit_tigers_among_te.html
David O'Brien
December 24th, 2011
2:25 pm
Peter Short, you’re five weeks late on the Delmon Young/Jair Jurrjens rumor. But thanks.
Peter Short
December 24th, 2011
2:26 pm
sad, U got 2 remember that Bobby Cox said “Heyward hits the ball unlike any hitter since Hank Aaron”. That’s enough to allow Heyward to remain the starting right fielder. Production doesn’t matter like it does with most teams. Bobby’s disciple Fredi continues the masquerading. Greg Walker couldn’t help Gordan Beckham but he’s the Savior for Heyward ? Laughable. Heyward is a AA or AAA talent.
Peter Short
December 24th, 2011
2:41 pm
Um, if U read the date in the article it says 12/22/11 1:15pm not 5 weeks ago. Maybe the trade talks have resumed between the two teams ? So your assumption is the reporter of this article is 5 weeks late ?
Disgusted
December 24th, 2011
2:47 pm
I don’t think that even Brian Cashman would fare much better then Mr. Wren has under a Liberty Media payroll.
The baseball people have saved this franchise from completely going down the tubes.
As for the dumping of Lowe, well we only dumped $5 mil of his salary, but that is about the best we could do under the circumstances. And they did get a middle of the road prospect for him, so Wren did his best.
David O'Brien
December 24th, 2011
2:49 pm
That was news five weeks ago, Peter. Don’t know what else to tell you.
By the way, Heyward’s a Double-A talent, huh? Then I guess he did one of the all-time imposter acts in 2010, somehow managing to post a .393 OBP and .849 OPS in 623 plate appearances in the majors. As a 20-year-old rookie.
Quite a feat for a “Double-A talent,” wouldn’t you say?
Shane
December 24th, 2011
2:51 pm
Merry Christmas Dave ya miserable bollox. lol
Peter Short
December 24th, 2011
3:04 pm
Lots of rookies have great rookie years then become nothing.
Here’s a link to ROY Winners.
http://www.stevetheump.com/rookies_of_year.htm
Many did nothing after their rookie years including Angel Berroa,Marty Cordova,Bob Hamelin,Bobby Crosby,Sandy Alomar Jr,Walt Weiss,Geovany Soto,Dontrelle Willis,Jason Jennings,Todd Hollandsworth,Jerome Walton,Chris Sabo,etc.
That’s not even including the hundreds of runner-ups,etc.that were one year wonders…
JoePensacola
December 24th, 2011
3:17 pm
Wren hasn’t even been close to making a good trade or helping the team this off season. I think that the braves should trade Wren and Gonzales for an outfielder and shortstop.
What they put this team through last September was deplorable.
sad
December 24th, 2011
3:32 pm
DOB
one good season doesnt make a player worth having.
I think Francoeur did that too.
We didnt keep him either…
sad
December 24th, 2011
3:33 pm
once a player is exposed for what he cant hit then the trouble begins.
Heyward cant hit a breaking ball or curve.
nuffsaid
December 24th, 2011
3:42 pm
Ray,
I don’t know what moves Wren could have made. I don’t get paid for that. However, to sit on your hands while others in your division improve is bad enough but to return basically the same monumental collapsing, no offense team and then declare that we don’t need anyone else is either stupidity or delusion. Now, you can be fine with that if you want to. Great. That’s your opinion. But, I would prefer that the Braves organization at least admit that there is a problem and try, mind you just try, to make some improvements.