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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
776 comments Add your comment
Staying Home
December 23rd, 2011
11:43 am
Owl, if Papelbon closes out 15 games in the 9th that Lidge lost in the 9th last year then he will SOLELY be responsible for 15 wins that would have been losses if not for him closing them out.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
11:43 am
Staying Home
Even before Pujols, the Cards have had one of, if not the, most supportive fan bases in baseball through attendance, merch sales, etc. This has been spoken upon for years.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
11:44 am
Staying Home
You’re basing everything on assumptions.
Staying Home
December 23rd, 2011
11:45 am
Just like if Braves would have let Vizcaino (if he would have got 3 outs) close that game Kimbrel blew in the 9th against the Phillies then he would have SOLELY won a game.
bvillebaron
December 23rd, 2011
11:45 am
Staying Home:
It would help if you would get your facts straight when analyzing the other teams last year. Did you watch any games last year? If you did, you would know that Ryan Madson, not Lidge, was the Phils’ closer last year and he was very good. Certainly Papelbon is a more proven closer than Madson and on balance is an upgrade, but not signficantly from last year. Otherwise, the Phils have only upgraded their bench and wil be without Howard for several months.
The Mets were never going to be a factor so let’s look at the Marlins and the Nationals. No question that both of these teams made some nice moves, but will Reyes play more or less than 120 games; can he coexist with Hanley; outside of Josh Johnson (who is always an injury risk), their rotation is nothing special (despite what the folks on the MLB Network who have to talk about something Buerhle is not the second coming of Bob Feller or any number of the Braves current starters or prospects). The Nationals do have a nice top 3 for their rotation in Stasburg, Zimmerman (who I think is underrated) and Gonzalez. However, Gonzalez put up his numbers in a pitcher’s park in Oakland and let’s wait to see what he does in Washington. I am sure that all you doom and gloomers on here think I am drowning in Kool-Aid, but I still like the Braves’ overall depth in the rotation better than anyone else’s in the NL East (including Philly) and their bullpen is clearly superior to anyone in the division.
I see some nice lineups in the NL East, but none that compare with any in the AL and none that are definitely superior to the one that the Braves will trot out there next year even if they make no moves. We all want to see Wren make some moves and given his track record, he will. However, there is NO sense in making a reactionary, panic move based solely on what others in the divsion have done so far.
Staying Home
December 23rd, 2011
11:46 am
Because before Pujols they had Vince Coleman,Willie McGee,Bob Gipson,Lou Brock,Stan Musial.
Staying Home
December 23rd, 2011
11:47 am
Gibson I meant
Glavine95
December 23rd, 2011
11:47 am
I think we stay where we are. I don’t understand all the hate, if we did have the money – who would we sign to fill our needs? I didn’t see a free agent worth millions this year. Let our kids come up and play….kind of exciting!!
Staying Home
December 23rd, 2011
11:49 am
Zimmerman is the Nats 3B not SP. Talk is cheap. Just mark my words. The Braves will finish 4th in the East if they don’t get a LF that can produce .285 30 100.
Staying Home
December 23rd, 2011
11:50 am
You point out the other teams injury question marks all while Hanson,Hudson,Chipper,Prado,Heyward are the “Gimpy Bunch” ! LMAO.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
11:55 am
Staying Home
Yeah, because the Braves haven’t had any great players over the years. My point was that maybe if Braves fans supported the team more, and were a little more loyal in the bad times, we could afford more great players. Liberty isn’t a group of big meanies who want to anger Braves fans for fun. They just don’t want to lose money. Successful businesses don’t feel that way.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
11:55 am
*do feel that way
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
11:57 am
bvillbarons
I agree with you. The Braves need some work, but I’m tired of people acting like this is a broke, hopeless franchise.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
11:58 am
Basing your moves on what other teams are doing is no way to run a successful franchise.
sad
December 23rd, 2011
12:00 pm
Does anyone actually think that these guys played well enough to earn millions of dollars in raises?
basically there were several guys together that made enough raises to total near 20 million. honestly if we all under performed at our jobs we would be lucky to keep it. and they get a raise.
go figure. I guess thats the nature of the beast…
Lemke's Knuckler
December 23rd, 2011
12:02 pm
I love the Braves and hope they make the playoffs in 2012, but if they don’t, Wren will be in an excellent position to wheel and deal. Hudson, Prado, Jurrjens and even Chipper could all bring solid returns on the trade market, should the Braves fall out of contention by July.
I know everyone hates the thought of a rebuilding process, but the Braves are already a few years into this youth movement, so it would be more of a reloading process than anything. It’s something the Panthers are doing in football this year, and the fan base here in Charlotte has received the process very well (not at first, but they understand now), knowing that the dead weight they unloaded in veterans the past few years will result in teams for 2012 and beyond that will have a legitimate shot at competing for a Super Bowl.
With this group of young arms, I get all tingly inside thinking about what this rotation could be in 2013. So my point, I will be pleased with this season whichever way it goes. If it goes well, I still think the Braves have enough firepower to make a deep run in the playoffs. It it goes poorly, there is hope for the future, especially if they can unload a few veterans at the deadline and give these young arms some innings at the major league level.
Honestly, if you told the Braves had zero chance at making the playoffs this year, but they had guys like Teheran, Delgado, Beachy, Minor, Hanson, Medlen or Gilmartin pitching each night, I would tune in every time and watch. That’s just me though, and I know that probably doesn’t cut it for the average fan.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:02 pm
sad
Ultimately, baseball players earn way more than they should based on their contributions to society. Have you looked at NBA salaries? It’s obscene.
Don Green
December 23rd, 2011
12:03 pm
The Nationals are really going to be good over the next few years, lots of young talent and smart acquisitions.
Don Green
December 23rd, 2011
12:05 pm
Staying home. The Nats have a 3B-OF named Zimmerman and their # 2-3 starting pitcher is also named Zimmerman.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:06 pm
Don Green
They are gonna be scary soon. I believe the Braves and Nats will be the class of the East by 2014. The Phils are old, and along with the Marlins, will be buried under bad contracts.
Slowhiteguy
December 23rd, 2011
12:06 pm
The Braves will be in much better financial shape next off-season to compete for free agents and higher priced trade targets. Patience.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:10 pm
I will say that the Nats better learn their lesson about things such as the Werth contract if they want sustainable success.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:16 pm
I’m suprised there hasn’t been more discussion on the significance of the Howard injury. That will impact the East nearly as much as if the Marlins got Pujols. They say he’ll be back at the beginning of the season, but I highly doubt that. He probably won’t be himself for the majority of the season.
BravesFan in DC
December 23rd, 2011
12:20 pm
Nice post, DOB. You bring up some great points.
Also – Forgot to ask this on the previous blog post, but how did “Portugal. The Man” not make your 2011 album list? Their new album is PHENOMENAL (in my opinion). Their live shows are also extremely cool. They completely change up their sound compared to the album and jam between every song transition so it sounds like one long seamless song throughout the show. Have you scoped them yet?
Lee in S GA
December 23rd, 2011
12:21 pm
Owl Hunter – I also can honestly see the Nationals and Braves fighting it out 2 or 3 years down the road for the division title for several years. I’m sure the Phillies will attempt to follow the Yankees trend and spend…spend…spend. However, I’m not sold on them being dominate like the Yankees year after year for what seems like an eternity these days. Also think the Marlins be better than expected. They always seem to have good pitching and come up wiith good rookie prospects yearly. It would be ironic to see the Phillies and Mets BOTH in the cellar within the division.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:24 pm
Lee
I’m back and forth about the Marlins. I think they will be good, but all of this willingness to spend for the sake of spending doesn’t seem to have much thought behind it. Also, I can see the SEC coming down hard on them for this stadium issue. That could cripple the franchise for years. They have a nice collection of talent, though. I wonder if they will be able to keep them.
Bigkitty75
December 23rd, 2011
12:25 pm
There at are a few OFs or util bench bats that could be helpful and are still available that cold be good fits for the braves that should be relatively cheap. Cody Ross, Luke Scott, even Kevin kouzmanoff could be decent free agent additions. If we traded Houston for Carlos Lee that would be a decent pick up. Any one of these OFs become our best OF as soon as they are added to the roster. Houston would need to eat Lee’s salary of course. Kouzmanoff is a decent bat and could play third to help Chipper and maybe LF. Luke Scott has been solid for 3+ years and was injured last year but should be recovered. How much could these guys cost. Let’s not wait until they are gone like when Abreu went for 5
Bigkitty75
December 23rd, 2011
12:27 pm
Abreu went for 5 mill 3 years ago when he was “washed” up. But would have ubeen our best Of for the last 3 years.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 23rd, 2011
12:27 pm
“Ultimately, baseball players earn way more than they should based on their contributions to society.”
Basic economics, you can obtain substantial amounts of a certain resource if you can generate substantial amounts of a certain resource.
In the case of athlete salaries, the resource they generate is money. So they get compensated with money.
In the case of people doing good for society, the resource they generate is goodness and kindness. So they get compensated with goodness and kindness.
Depends on what you value more.
Don’t be jealous of what other people have. It’s a dead end street.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:30 pm
Lemke
You make a good point. For the record, I’m not jealous of what players make, I just think that they are generally overpaid.
David O'Brien
December 23rd, 2011
12:33 pm
Ultimately, baseball players earn way more than they should based on their contributions to society. Have you looked at NBA salaries? Owl Hunter
This is hardly a new development, Owl Hunter. And hardly confined to NBA or MLB. Check out salaries in any major professional sport, team or individual (getting paid millions for being a great golfer, for instance). And then check out salaries of actors and actresses, some making hundreds of thousands (or more) per episode on series television, and many making millions of dollars for a few months work on one movie. Consider the millions made by the most-successful commercial music acts.
They make this money because there are relatively few people on the planet who can do what they do. You and I cannot do what they do, and we want to see them do it. We want to be entertained, so we pay for it. And TV networks want great ratings, and advertisers want to benefit. So we and they all pay the freight that produces the massive salaries for the talent on the field or on the screen or stage.
Of course there’s very little if any correlation to their contribution to society, as it were, other than they make our lives more enjoyable, which is also quite important if you think about it. There never has been a society where the people who risk their lives to protect us — cops, firefighters, soldiers, etc. — are paid better than top entertainers or athletes. Nor is there a society where teachers are paid one-tenth as much as successful bond traders or 1/100th what hedge-fund managers make — and I think we can agree that teachers make the greater “contribution to society.”
But enough of that. If you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go pay $12 to see a movie. (Yikes.)
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:33 pm
Obviously I’m not an economics guy. The ol’ lady handles that.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:34 pm
DOB
That’s fine. I was just making a small idealistic statement. I am somewhat qualified to talk baseball. Money issues, not as much.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:37 pm
DOB
While I have your attention, the one thing I think Wren is being a little slack on is the backup SS issue. That is going to be a little more important this year. Wouldn’t it serve us well to lock something up considering the low cost of such players? It seems like alot of the candidates are getting snapped up, and I shudder when thinking of carrying Hicks as a backup.
Slowhiteguy
December 23rd, 2011
12:40 pm
I have a much greater chance of becoming a fireman, cop, teacher etc. than a starting pitcher. DOB, exactly.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
12:46 pm
NBA salaries are still insane based on players’ contributions to their own team. See Curry, Eddy.
Lee in S GA
December 23rd, 2011
12:51 pm
If you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go pay $12 to see a movie. (Yikes.)
——————————————————————————
wow….And I grip about $8.00 around this area.
Bigkitty75
December 23rd, 2011
12:53 pm
I would have included Casey Blake here but he is now gone for not too much cash by the way. We missed out on him. He was OF and 3B.
Henry lugo
December 23rd, 2011
12:59 pm
Fans!!!! The next year the Braves have 40 millions more. Hahaha! The Billy Beane style. More for less and the fans grrrrr! Sorry the same sh… Every year
unbelievable
December 23rd, 2011
1:06 pm
Just because you have money to spend doesnt mean that you will spend it all. My fear is that if braves have a poor showing/attendance in 2012 then Liberty might cut payroll again.
Slowhiteguy
December 23rd, 2011
1:08 pm
I wouldnt include Casey Blake in any conversation aimed at improving the Braves.
smyrnabob
December 23rd, 2011
1:14 pm
What is the hurry? It is over 3 months until the season begins. The Braves have a lot of pitching, and that is what everybody wants. They are in the driver’s seat. Now that Gonzales is off the block, Jurrgens will be a hot commodity.
unbelievable
December 23rd, 2011
1:15 pm
nor would I with Seth Smith, Ronny Cedeno, Cody Ross…
George
December 23rd, 2011
1:25 pm
The point of DOB’s story is the BRAVES are CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP. As long as LIBERTY MEDIA owns team the BRAVES will not win anything, when CHIPPER retires I will stop rooting for them
Petedabrave
December 23rd, 2011
1:38 pm
Jurrgens for Hanley Ramirez. That will improve our lineup. Keep Prado in left he and Heyward will bounce back. I hate to say but Chipper wont make it all season. Then move Prado to 3b. And maybe find a good LF in a trade before the deadline. Oh and please sign Bourne.
Slowhiteguy
December 23rd, 2011
1:54 pm
I would take quite a bit more that JJ for Hanley. Besides, FW won’t trade JJ within the division.
TDub
December 23rd, 2011
1:58 pm
Every time I’m feeling good about life, when my wife looks especially beautiful, my kids give me hugs, my job is going great, and the sun is shining outside, I visit this blog to remind me of what pure misery looks like.
It’s December. It’s the holidays. It’s a looong way from Spring Training. For Cthulhu’s sake, lighten up, people.
Slowhiteguy
December 23rd, 2011
1:59 pm
TDub….Agreed!
nuffsaid
December 23rd, 2011
2:01 pm
Wren is an idiot. He was an idiot when he left Ripken at the ariport in Baltimore, and he’s gone down hill since then. He can’t make a deal. It takes brains and money. Unfortunately, Wren has neither.
Robert
December 23rd, 2011
2:26 pm
As a far away Braves fan from Chicago, I just want to say thanks to DOB for all of the Braves updates that I can follow here on a daily basis. Always look forward to hot stove updates! Have faith people, it is still a long way from srping training. And being stuck with JJ and Martin for next season, would not be the worst thing in the world. I’m sure if FW can get some pieces to his liking, then he will pull the trigger on something, Until then Merry Christmas to all!
Ray
December 23rd, 2011
2:27 pm
nuffsaid, and others,, please tell me what moves would you want Wren to make?
bobbymahlon
December 23rd, 2011
2:41 pm
Chipper could never play short he has no range at all. He would do just like he does at third, any ball hit to his left or right he would just pull his glove back and watch it go by.
I hate to see us get Jack Wilson because he is no hitter at all but good defensively. Lets hope Pastornicky makes it.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
2:49 pm
Ray
Nothing brings about the sounds of crickets chirping like asking the whiners for their solutions to the Braves problems.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
2:57 pm
Could we get Charlie Blackmon from the Rockies?
Ray
December 23rd, 2011
2:58 pm
Owl Hunter, I know. Thats one of the reasons why I did it. yeah like we saw earlier someone had said JJ for Hanley,, YES if thats all it would take to get Hanley absolutely. Anyone with any clue would know it would take so much more, plus Hanley and Fredi G don’t exactly get along. Look what the O’s were asking for Adam Jones. Are you kidding me?
JeanE
December 23rd, 2011
3:28 pm
Hey Rafael, shut the he** up about Matty Diaz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a valuable hitter against lefties and his defense is perfectly servicable, I’d dare to say he was a better defensive player in the outfield last year that Heyward so take your personal dislike of him and shove it where the son doesn’t shine. I’m thrilled he’s back home with the Braves and I like our team next year, Prado included. Last year was a fluke and I don’t think we’ll see the likes of it again. Looking forward to next year!!!!
Henry Aaron's Ghost
December 23rd, 2011
3:50 pm
MLB TRANSACTIONS WIRE:
The Atlanta Brave just announced that for the 97th consecutive day they have done absolutely nothing to improve the team. No film at 11, nothing to report.
Atticus
December 23rd, 2011
3:59 pm
Should’ve been able to go aafter Cuddyear who would’ve been perfect!
The Braves expect me to keep paying high prices for losing teams. I loe the foundation, but they really better hope Heyward bounces back and Chipper stays healthy.
This franchise is at a pivotal crossroads. They are always building for the future and I like what they have done. But their last World Series was 16 years ago!!!!
Wren and Schuerholtz, its ALL about the World Series! Don’t give me that divisional BS!
unbelievable
December 23rd, 2011
4:03 pm
Cuddyer got overpaid. No way anyone should have offered him 3/$31
Dennis
December 23rd, 2011
4:19 pm
I live in the Nationals broadcast area and do believe they are getting better but they have holes and a lot of youth to deal with. I do not think they are better than the Braves at this point in time and am much more positive in my view of how the Braves will do this year. I have heard many times that the best trade is often the one you don’t make, so perhaps both Martin and Jair will have exceptional years. I believe one or both will be gone before the season starts. Still a lot of teams in dire need of pitching and Colorado still has a deep lust for Prado and will eventually cough up someone to go along with Smith. Keep the faith.
GaryinBham
December 23rd, 2011
4:41 pm
We’re in this situation because of trades and more trades when we kept buying the present for the future. When you change direction and start rebuilding, you have to wait on great young talent to develop. How do they develop? By playing. This sure beats, (even last year) the prior years when we missed it altogether. Take a look at the Rangers and see what investing in the future can do. That was OUR future in some cases. If you’re stewing about signing somebody or making a trade, just repeat after me, “Kawakami, Hampton, J. D. Drew, Mark Texeira, Len Barker, Ak Hrabowski, Raul Mondesi, Albie Lopez…” and keep going until your brainwaves return to normal.” We won’t win the division this year, the division will be tough, we may miss the playoffs again. Then again, we get to watch the beginning of a team that might win more than one division title before it’s over.
Rick Camp
December 23rd, 2011
4:51 pm
sign me…i can hit
Felix
December 23rd, 2011
4:52 pm
Dave: Why ask this question? It is not a question anymore. Of course we’ve lost ground in the NL East. Today, the Braves* are the 3rd or 4th best team in the division. Why? Because they have a pathetic offense.
Note: I trashed the letter from J.S. some time ago (when I realized what a bunch of bullcr__ it was). And please, no one speak of Linderbrink again-he is a bad memory from a nightmare year.
* all time chokers in Braves history.
Felix
December 23rd, 2011
4:55 pm
And, just because I haven’t said it lately- Wren is an idiot.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
5:24 pm
One thing to consider in scouting the division is that our bullpen is far superior to everyone else’s. Papelbon is a nice addition for now, but still doesn’t stack their bullpen up to ours. That will be important late in the season. Hopefully our buffoon of a manager uses them correctly.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
5:26 pm
Medlen/Fish?/Viz instead of Linebrink/Sherril/Proctor’s corpse… I like!
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
5:30 pm
Beltran – 2 years $25m, or a 2b and Diaz for whatever it is we are paying them. Again, Uggla was a solution to a problem we did not have since we had an All-Star 2b already. And then, Prado works his bootay off to cope with LF and we run all over the place trying to dump him off. Stay classy Braves. Nothing personal against Uggla, I actually gained respect for him watching the hard-nosed way he dealt with a career awful slump, but… the opportunity cost in terms of defensive range and salary has this team in a pickle. Our problem was, and still is in LF. Maybe we can get Charlie Blackmon from the Rockies? I like what I saw of him last year before the injury. He’s young and looks like a 15HR 30SB kinda guy.
Freeman, Prado, Yunel, Chipper/Infante. I would have been cool with that. But nooooooo…..
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
5:32 pm
Also, we had Dunn, so, that was Linebrink or Proctor’s spot. More Uggla opportunity cost. I love Meds as long relief. I think he would get exposed as a starter – not enough pitches leads to some short nights. I like Viz in the pen this year. I hope we did not kill O’Ventbrel last year. We need them again this year.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
5:33 pm
Sign Pepe Frias to a 1 year $2m deal.
Diaz who?
December 23rd, 2011
5:50 pm
Braves just sign Willie Harris to a 3 year contract worth $3.98 a day!..
Nothing against Willie he can play 6 positions. Just thinking how cheap some owners are!
Baseball Player
December 23rd, 2011
5:51 pm
Everyone needs to realize that they still have Kimbrel, Venters, and O’flarity. Between the legit 8 thats right 8 starters 5 of them can make it to the 7th inning. And do it dominating style. Realisticlly the Braves are already better than last year. So what you lost Lowe and Gonzales ????? WTF did they do to help the team?? YOu know how many times I watched the only player that sucks named Gonzales choke? I swear every BIG ab came to him and he CHOKED!! Addition by subtraction.. Now we all get to see these exciting young studds(hopefully) pitch, I hope they trade Jair and open another spot. The way the division looks the Braves and Nats will dominate for years to come. Phils Mets and Fish have NO farm system anymore. Hey Frank Wren theres a kid in Seattle I used to play with and go to school with that should go get!!! Casper Wells .. Boy can hit and hasa hose … Wouldnt cost alot I dont think? So here it is, Rollins/Howard get injured for the season, Reyes has 6 more hamsting issues, Josh Johnson makes 2 more starts than last year, THe mets?? LOL ….Nats are a ???? scary squad just like the BRAVES!!!! GET ONE MORE FOR COX B4 HE DIES AND LET CHIPPER RETIRE ON TOP>>>Heres Tom with the weather
bravesjunkie
December 23rd, 2011
6:01 pm
I sure do get tired of reading alot of peoples posts on here,seems like most of you arent braves fans at all.it would be nice to read some positive thoughts from people instead of constant player/managment blasting.the braves were one of the best teams in baseball last year and they suffered several key injuries.sure they could improve the roster in a couple areas but theres still time for that.no matter what moves they make theyre going to be a condending team next year again and as a fan thats all you can ask for.imagine what its like to be an astros fan or a padres fan or something.weve got it pretty good if you ask me
Diaz who?
December 23rd, 2011
6:05 pm
no one asked you.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
6:28 pm
bravesjunkie
I’ve been trying to make that point forever. This organization is in much better shape than a lot of others. Lots of folks complain, but few offer any solutions.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
6:29 pm
Being an A’s fan must be horrible right now.
David
December 23rd, 2011
6:36 pm
I know the Braves want to be patient, but to make money you have to spend money, see the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim for an example of that. The general manager there is more aggressive and if the Braves had a more aggressive general manager who was more sure of himself and not afraid to make a move, then we probably good get something done. Liberty media needs to get out of the baseball business if they cannot spend more money, why did they buy the Braves ??
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
6:44 pm
Solutions? I think a lot of us critique specific moves that have left this team weaker. Yunel gone in a battle of hissy fits. Andrus? Gone for a 1 year rental. Wainwright? Gone for a 1 year rental. Uggla? Forced Prado to LF, cost us Infante to spell Chippers last years and cost us a 26 year old power arm in the bullpen. I get tired of fans saying “next year” and acting like corporate win just enough (aka Cubs) to make a profit stewardship is enough. Winning, takes care of the money problem. First round exits and wild card collapses makes some fans recognize what’s up.
Did you see the package the A’s got for Gio?
Be a fan that lives in happy land. I’ve been to too many playoff exits at Turner Field to pretend that “it’s all good.” I had to watch the Giants, live in our house, pause their celebration just to see Bobby Cox off into the sunset. I had to watch the Cardinals catch us and seize the Word Series. That’s only going back 2 years. Think about it. The history does not lie. We have 1 Word Series in a post strike year when nobody even cared about baseball. We added to the Yankees championships with a choke and a sweep. Ugh. Oh, it’s all good though.
Scott from Fairburn
December 23rd, 2011
6:46 pm
Yunel must have really been a Turdo … Because I would feel better about next season if Fredi was pencilling him in at shortstop
Ralph Not Morty
December 23rd, 2011
7:17 pm
Yeah ? What about trading for McGriff,Smoltz ? What about signing Maddux ? Some moves go bad and some go good. No moves though sucks ! At least TRY to make your team better !
JCL
December 23rd, 2011
7:34 pm
@count_schemula
Last year there were 33 players in the NL with a higher batting average than Chipper Jones. Let’s consider them. The Average salary for these 33 players is $6.32 million. Chipper made $14 Million. In fact, of the 33 NL players with a higher BA than Chipper in 2011; only 6 made more money than Chipper. Those players making more money than Chipper averaged 27 home runs. Chipper hit 18. The averaged 94 RBI’s. Chipper had 70. None of them played less games than Chipper and Chipper was not very good at 3rd on defense.
No one is saying Chipper isn’t a Hall of Fame 3rd baseman. He’s one of the 10 best 3rd basemen ever imho. But he’s being paid like an All-star and he’s playing like a has been. It’s time to either re-negotiate his salary or get out of the way and let the team move forward. For the money Chipper makes we could get someone with much better numbers either in the OF or at 3rd and move Prado around to make room for them.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
7:35 pm
Are you really bemoaning getting Uggla for Infante and Dunn? The irreplaceable Infante? Dunn, who makes Venters and EOF look like bums? Seriously?
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
7:39 pm
JCL
If you think Chipper’s deal is so bad, wait til Howard, Papelbon, Pujols, Werth, and Arod age a few more years. In the big picture, it’s really not that big of a deal.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
7:40 pm
Renteria for JJ was also a nice trade. The Tex and JD Drew moves are not as defensible since it appears we had zero intention of keeping either one of them and we gave up long term stars (Andrus, Feliz, Wainwright).
Smoltz was a once in a lifetime steal trade. Signing Maddux was committing to a real free agent.
ATLANTA — Mark Teixeira landed in the middle of the Atlanta lineup Tuesday and right away, there was bold talk in the Braves clubhouse. “Yes, we’ve got the team to win the World Series,” All-Star catcher Brian McCann said.
It’s the difference between building a team and just making trades and reacquiring Matt Diaz or getting Garret Anderson.
Look at the Uggla trade. We get a 2b with no range. We force a position all-star out of position. We lost Infante who was the perfect spell for Chipper and weakened the pen by losing Dunn, and then Medlin and Moylan had injuries.
I don’t see the plan.
Then in that same year, we get Bourne (great trade) and declare ourselves a speed and defense team of which Uggla is neither.
I’d like to see some Charlie Blackmon talk. The Rockies can afford to trade him. He looks like a .300 15HR 30SB kinda guy. I don’t want to see any Cody Ross talk.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
7:43 pm
The Atlanta Braves would be a worse team with Infante than they would be with Uggla. Dunn would have been our 4th best reliever at best.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
7:45 pm
Not to mention that Uggla carried the offense when he broke out of his slump.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
7:47 pm
OWL, Chipper Jones was the 3rd most productive 3b in thr NL last year. He also did it while waiting for the best time to have surgery on his knee. Chipper played cheap so we could keep Smoltz Glavine Maddux and A Jones and now he wants to leave on his own terms. You have a problem with Chipper’s contract? Look elsewhere I say. CHIPPER IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
OWL, comprehend what I am saying. The opportunity cost of Uggla is what I bemoan. Feel me? We HAD an all-star 2b in Prado. Infante was perfect for spelling Chipper who can only go 120 games now. Dunn was 26 and has more than a k per inning. You can’t look at it like Uggla for Dunn and Infante, it’s the fact that he ties up our money, made Prado homeless and yeah, we had Brooks Conrad on the roster last year, not Infante.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
7:50 pm
OWL, we needed at 4th best reliever. Look at how many games O’Ventbrel had to come in. We’ll see this year if we wore them out or not.
Damn it, we HAD Prado at 2b and Infante plays 2b, SS, 3b and LF.
Uggla is our hole in LF, not to be confused with Infante.
Secretone
December 23rd, 2011
7:50 pm
The Orioles are my home team. The Braves have been my favorite team for many years. If they end up in 4th place, that is great when you dream that the Orioles will have a “great” season and lose less than 100 games !!!
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
7:53 pm
I know Chipper isn’t the problem at all. I was making the point that his contract isn’t that bad. Comprehend what I am saying.
Last year, we needed right handed power, and we got it. Wren gave up two easily replaceable assets, and Prado, while a fine player, is becoming more and more of an injury concern. Uggla’s contract is a little much, but they could not stay put in that instance. We straight up robbed Florida for him. EOF and Venters are Dunn X 1000.
And now for my favorite part of the argument: if things are so unbelievably screwed up right now, use yout expert knowledge to explain what you would do to make the Braves more competetive in 2012, Mr. GM.
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
7:56 pm
How many lefties did you want in the pen anyway? Venters, EOF, Sherril. Did we need more than that. If Dunn hadn’t moved in that deal, he would have been moved in another one.
Ozzie
December 23rd, 2011
7:56 pm
Marlins and Yankees are getting a little iffy on Yoennis Cespedes which will lower his cost. Wren should take a look and ideally make an offer.
Start him in AAA and call him up by June. He may be had for 35-40mm over 5 years.
alexcox
December 23rd, 2011
7:58 pm
aa
Owl Hunter
December 23rd, 2011
8:00 pm
Secretone
It’s such a shame about the Orioles. Great city, great park, horrible owner.
alexcox
December 23rd, 2011
8:06 pm
bueno e leido comentarios y como fans tambien estoy preoucupado como los bravos estan tan callados pero si estan pelaos o esperan ver si lo q tienen en la granja sacan un elite lo sabremos pronto al prinsipio d la temporada en q lugar van en el standing creo q veremos algun movimiento y sino 2013 habra mas para escojer por el momento ser pasientes
Jeremy
December 23rd, 2011
8:07 pm
Dave, you are the man. But how about some good news at some point besides guys getting healthy
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:11 pm
First in order for me to fix 2012, with all my powerful wisdom, let’s go to school first.
Definition of ‘Opportunity Cost’
1. The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action.
Uggla = opportunity cost.
You call Uggla a steal? I call him a liability.
This could have been our infield: Freeman, Prado, Yunel, Chipper/Infante and in the bank, $60m, which is a lot of money for a team that cries broke all the time and makes “moves like Jagger,” er, I mean like Diaz and G Anderson.
Thanks to Uggla being all up in our bank account, we can’t sign a LF outright, so, we need to make a trade. But, JJ and Hanson are injured and we may have to open this season “as is” and if they prove healthy, and some of the kids prove themselves, we may be able to make a move.
So, yeah, we don’t have a lot of options for 2012. We have to wait for Hanson or JJ to prove themselves, we need to make sure Beachy and Minor are as solid as they seem. We need to see if Teheran is more impressive than he showed. Then MAYBE we can make a trade.
Two low cost options “with upside” could be Alex Presley or Charlie Blackmon.
I would make the JJ and Prado trade for Adam Jones. It’s too high, but Prado is homeless, so we might as well.
Prado is not an injury risk, he had a freaking staph infection. Freaky.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:14 pm
What did alexcox say? That Yunel is sorry and want’s to come back?
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
8:18 pm
BTW if this website was not so 3rd world, you could see that I was making these same claims about Uggla when we made the trade and everyone was freaking out about a 30HR guy. Wrong puzzle piece, that’s all.
Braves Fan Trapped behind Philly Lines
December 23rd, 2011
8:26 pm
OMG!!! It’s soo hard being a Braves Fan (and a prior ATL resident for 40 yrs) living now in the metro Philly area. I seem to be defending the Braves everyday. My blood runs red and blue but it’s hard to defend the Braves at this point. Improvements must be made and the last month of the season can’t be blamed on the prior hitting coach. Players must be held accountable! If i failed to meet my expections I would be out of work. MLB Players need to understand there are sooo many people without a job, and they must appreciate they get are getting a good living playing a childs game. FW improve the outfield now. We can’t wait on St. Nick. It’s amazing that when the Braves win , the stadium fills up with fans.
Yawn
December 23rd, 2011
8:28 pm
Anyone who says that the Braves have not lost ground to the other teams in the NL East during the offseason is either on drugs or on the Braves media department payroll.
Historic collapse, and do nothing managment forecasts a bleak 2012 season. They aren’t going to do anything yet they hope you are going to continue to buy tickets and merchandise so they can turn a profit without trying to fix what’s wrong with this team!