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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
776 comments Add your comment
Hoosier Aaron
December 22nd, 2011
9:08 pm
Ronny Cedeno has been mentioned as a name at short for us.
I love Clint Hurdle’s answer as to why they didn’t pick up Cedeno’s option…
“My wife puts things in perspective,” Hurdle said by way of example. “We go out to eat at a restaurant, and at the end of the meal I ask her how the meal was, and if she says it’s OK, we don’t go back. At the end of the year, for me, Ronny was OK. As we try and develop a championship club, I expect more out of my shortstop than what Ronny was able to bring.”
That’s awesome.
David O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
9:08 pm
It’s a steal, imo. But I’ve always been a big Beltran fan. Short term deal. Two years, 13 a pop. He OPS’d .925 in 2011. He’s a very, very good hitter. — Efrim
If you think it’s a steal to pay $13 mill a year for next two seasons for a stud hitter with bad knees who has played a total of 287 games over the past three seasons and posted an .881 OPS in that period with 72 doubles, 39 homers, 159 RBIs and 149 runs, then what do you think about paying $14 million next season (and possibly $9 million the following season if his option vests and he opts to play) for a guy who’s a stud hitter with bad knees and has played a total of 364 games over the past three seasons and posted an .815 OPS with 77 doubles, 46 homers, 187 RBIs and 183 runs?
(Oh, and just an FYI: The first guy, Beltran, also is going to a team he never played for and received a full no-trade clause, while the latter guy is playing for the team he’s played for his entire career).
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
9:11 pm
For those that think the braves are going to finish 4th.. please give the reason. I would like to know the 2nd and 3rd better teams in the division. Yes the Phils are a contender and the favorite until someone unseats them.
mike
December 22nd, 2011
9:11 pm
all of you folks saying that Atlanta will finish fourth place have no right to call yourselves braves fans. unbelievable how you guys can’t have faith in the team because they don’t make a move. apart from getting a back up 3rd baseman atlanta does not need to make a move. it’ll be a close race with Philly for 1st place in division. Atlanta WILL get one of those 2 wild card spots
David O'Brien
December 22nd, 2011
9:13 pm
Hoosier Aaron: You’re right, that was a terrific quote and perspective by Hurdle (9:08 p.m. comment)
Lee in S GA
December 22nd, 2011
9:16 pm
DOB – think you mean’t that for the other blog.
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
9:16 pm
DOB,, thank you for the comparison between Beltran and Chipper. It has amazed me for the last week how so many wants Chipper to retire and they want the braves to sign beltran. In YOUR opinion, are there any potential signings or trade targets you see the braves possibly going after?
Number 5#
December 22nd, 2011
9:17 pm
Anybody that thinks the Braves are going to finish below 2rd or 3rd is delusional. The Braves had some growing pains last year and injuries. The Braves pitched a lot of young pitcher’s last year gaining valuable experience. The Braves have one of the best farm systems no matter what you hear.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
December 22nd, 2011
9:18 pm
4th place? PUULLLEEEESE, gimme a break.
We are ten deep in our rotation: Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Medlen, Vizcaino and Redmond if need arises. They will win, period. How much? Your guess is as good as mine.
Bill
December 22nd, 2011
9:19 pm
Better score some runs…
hankthetank
December 22nd, 2011
9:21 pm
Here’s where I’m at. If Liberty won’t spend more to keep us on pace with the rest of the division, then why should I spend my own money supporting the Braves. If the stadium was only filled with 8,0000 to 10,000 a night then maybe they would wake-up. This team gets everything out of their payroll that they possibly can. You can’t be shocked the Braves didn’t make playoffs last season when the teams that did had significantly higher payrolls. That’s just how non-salary cap MLB works. Screw Liberty Media. Oh and by the way, the CEO of LM made more money last year that he entire Braves payroll.
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
9:21 pm
Number 5# the braves farm system is ranked among the top by all of baseball. Braves, Ray’s and Rangers are top 3-5 in all of baseball.
Brave Fan
December 22nd, 2011
9:22 pm
Cardinals get the idiot signing of the year award. Guess they get a freebie since they won it last year.
TeheranTime
December 22nd, 2011
9:26 pm
Coach, the rotation was even more deep last season with Derek Lowe and how did that work out? Pitching hasn’t been a problem. Offense has. That has gotten no better this offseason. The Nationals rotation will rival Atlanta’s this season. The Marlins are markedly better with their acquisitions in their daily lineup as well as their starting pitching rotation. I can see fourth place for this team if it stands as it is. I don’t see it much better next season with Chipper retiring and no known quantity at third base. We also can’t be sure that Atlanta would spend the full ammount afforded by Chipper’s retirement to add a third baseman.
G
December 22nd, 2011
9:26 pm
Another article where Dave O’Brien bows at the feet of Frank Wren. Why not hammer the guy about saying he likes this team. If he liked the team he wouldn’t be trying to trade 2 starters from it. And another thing, the Marlins don’t have much after Johnson and Mark B? What do the braves have after Tim Hudson, who will be coming back after a surgery.
This is a 3rd or 4th place team and Frank Wren will get another pass. Don’t forget he helped to create some of these payroll nightmares we have…
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
9:28 pm
hank,, there are a couple of teams that made the playoffs that had less payroll then the braves. Tampa’s payroll is lower, there are teams that have much much higher payrolls that didn’t even come close of making the playoffs, cubs, mets, whitesox. Redsox collapsed like the braves but their payroll only 2nd to the yanks. Phil’s payroll way up there and they get bumped out quick with allegedly the best pitching staff in baseball. Payroll is not the issue. Its how you spend it.
Bobby's Cox
December 22nd, 2011
9:29 pm
Unlike most, I can understand the Braves standing pat, even though I disagree with the reason.
i.e. Prado. Wren says we’re trying to win, yet we’re trying to trade Prado (one of our best hitters in a weak offensive team) for a guy that will make us weaker for next year in hopes that a cf prospect doesn’t flop. Doesn’t. Make. Sense.
I can see holding onto JJJ and taking a more than calculated risk he dominates next season so we can get more for him, while allowing the pitching prospects more time to infiltrate.
In fact, I encourage Wren to stand pat. Trading away players that have gotten MLB experience and already gone through the learning curve is a bad idea. You don’t get good championship veteranship out of rookies that aren’t blue chip, and we aren’t getting blue chip guys like that in exchange for Prado or JJJ right now. Wheeler is not blue chip, and even of Wren thinks he is, he doesn’t make us better for next season than Prado, and no one fills the 3B void better than Prado for 2013. You also don’t trade fan favorites if you play at Turner Field in this economy especially since trading for 2013 leaves little to be desired for 2012.
Also, all that BS about Liberty not having a braves spending budget is exactly that: BS – otherwise we wouldn’t try to be trading 2 young players who outperform their small arb contracts so we can sign bench players when the starting 8 can’t hit. When teams have financial constraints they all do the same thing: they trade for young prospects. This team absolutely has $$ constraints. Face the music.
Merry Christmas
NickB
December 22nd, 2011
9:30 pm
@hankthetank
You are wrong the CEO did not draw a larger salary than the Braves payroll http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/12/compensation-chief-executive-salary-leadership-ceo-compensation-11-intro.html
if you notice on this list most movie stars make more in salary than most CEO’s. They make their money on their stock options. (which is a good motivating factor for improved performance IMO). But no, the occupy people would have you believe that their salaries are enormous. Yet many of the CEOs on that list draw a salary of one dollar…..
HoneyBadger(smacks the sh*t out of it)
December 22nd, 2011
9:36 pm
Not sure about an answer and who really gives a crap? Now since we have that out of the way I just want to say I want Ozzie Gullien to man rod me till ejaculation in the back of the dug out (get it?) while he talks to me in that sexy angry Mexican voice.
Yours truly-Steve from Piemont & 10 St
Ethan Delmont
December 22nd, 2011
9:39 pm
The braves will be just fine. Uggla won’t have another season like he did and he did belt a nice amount of HR’s despite his horrible AVG. Heyward will be fine. You don’t go from baseballs top prospect to a nobody overnight. Prado will be fine too. Im slightly concerned about SS but the offense will be so much better last year.
The staff is young and deep. AND can afford injuries and still be fine both starting staff and bullpen, that is unless we lose Jurrjens.
I’m the most pessimistic Braves fan and actually still hate them (and falcons til the first playoff game) but theres no way last years debacle will happen again. There were so many odd circumstances that won’t happen again, I think dumping Prado, knowing full well that Chipper won’t play more than 120 max, will only hurt. So many guys outside of Freeman and maybe Bourne and Chipper under performed that that won’t happen again.
Losing Jurrjens only makes our staff of mostly rookies and makes the depth that much worse. Losing Prado means a huge clubhouse loss, and no flexibility with injuries namely Chip who sadly can’t play what he used to.
Unless there is a trade that is insane not to do. You gotta have faith that this lineup with one more chance will be so much better. Especially with the motivation from last years pathetic collapse.
Mark (another one)
December 22nd, 2011
9:42 pm
I don’t see the Braves falling but I do see them contending with Phil. I like all the incumbants except SS and I think they need a power hitting LF or 3rd base reserve who can take over in one or two years. In other words a young player with potential is probably the fit.
Even at SS, they did well last year with a weak hitting SS, so the realy issue is to have defense and hope for better hitting. It’s harder to project offensive production from the minors than defense. The questions for Pastonicky are:
1. Can he play defense at SS? Pretty much a given based on his history.
2. Will offensive struggles cause his defense to suffer? Hard to know.
3. Will he be a whole in the lineup or will he hit his weight (170)? This would be acceptable for a while but even Gonzo hit .240 with a .270 OBP. In order to be the long term solution he will need to do better.
PMC
December 22nd, 2011
9:43 pm
Ah, but what have they done, to make a freaking boring team slightly more interesting? A year of Michael Bourne is good.
Other than that, it’s still a light hitting, good pitching team that won’t score enough runs.
IE about like watching paint dry.
HoneyBadger(smacks the sh*t out of it)
December 22nd, 2011
9:45 pm
please gizz on my face Ozzie
Blobie
December 22nd, 2011
9:46 pm
Pitching will be good to very good depending on injuries and development of youth. It is not even the new year and Frank Wren has failed. How stupid fans are. He may fail, but he hasn’t, yet. We are not, rightfully so, going after free agents. Our team will improve through a trade or two, or through current players having more respectful seasons and seasons more in line with their ability. I don’t have faith in this offense unless Heyward and Prado hit and unless we can score runs in the 40 or 50 games without Chipper and McCann. It’s sad that some of our biggest threats are out of the lineup so often.
PMC
December 22nd, 2011
9:48 pm
Clint Hurdle could be talking about this clubs offense. Changing the pitching coach isn’t going to help a team that went down in flames, because they couldn’t buy runs in April or September and for large stretches inbetween.
We don’t hit a lot of home runs, fine, we don’t steal bases either and we hit into a ton of double plays, also we strike out a lot. Not really inspiring much confidence going back with the same group we saw last year, even with Bourne.
PMC
December 22nd, 2011
9:49 pm
“hitting coach” sorry.
Blobie
December 22nd, 2011
9:49 pm
To clarify, I love McCann, but a catcher needs rest and is dangerous to have to rely on in the 4 or 5 spot in the order.
Mark (another one)
December 22nd, 2011
9:54 pm
I understand the concern of Chipper only playing 120-130 games, and the drop off when he’s out, but that goes to show his value. Prado can play 3rd but he doesn’t hit like Chipper. Few do. Its the same with McCann and Ross. That’s just the way it is. Few catchers play as many games as McCann does. Its just the way the game tears at the body of a catcher.
This is why I can’t understand when people call for Chipper to retire or for the Braves to trade McCann. Neither makes any sense if you want the Braves to win. If the Braves make a trade this off season, it needs to be for young players to move in as players age.
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
9:55 pm
Coach, I agree.. As far as questions on paper, the phils have as many as the braves. The division is fairly open for grabs. Now saying that, the phils are the favorite no question. But the way some are talking on here, the braves would be lucky to finish above last.
Former STH
December 22nd, 2011
9:57 pm
It is not the talent, we have more than enough to compete. The reason we will finished 3rd or worse next season is we retained the a manager that blew so many games with his utter inability to manage. He is more responsible than anyone for the September collapse as he continued to do absolutely nothing different to alter the course.
He is a third base coach at best and simply hasn’t the aptitude to manage professional baseball. Nice man but dumb as a box of rocks as evidenced by his inability to remember the facts or details of the game he just managed 30 minutes earlier.
Bob the Blogger
December 22nd, 2011
10:04 pm
If the Braves kept JJ through the beginning of the season, he could prove himself to be healthy, and generate a greater return in a trade. It would also give a rookie (Teheran?) a few more starts at AAA before being called up.
richbrave
December 22nd, 2011
10:05 pm
YES. GO BRAVES
MitchC
December 22nd, 2011
10:12 pm
Dave, in answer to your question. Yes, the Braves have lost ground in the East.
They wont be catching Philly, no matter how much time Howard misses. With Philly’s pitching staff. they are far and away the team to beat in the NL East.
With the Marlins improvement, and Albert leaving St Louis, one would have to think the Marlins can be legitimate threats for the NL wild card. In fact, I’d say the Narlins are probably the wild card favorites.
Unless they do something big between now and Opening Day, i would have to say that the 2012 Braves will be likely to finish third, and at 500. They are an old team that is a teare older, with a lot hf health question marks, even if they move no one. (Chipper perpertually, JJ, Hanson) Our best pitcher, Hudson, is in his late 30s. Not to mention, the psychological hangover the team will have from blowing the big wild card lead. As we know, the 2007 Mets blew a 7 game WC lead with 17 games lef, and have never been heard from again.
2012 will likely be a long season for the Braves and their fans, unless FW does something to improve the team by Opening Day.
jharber
December 22nd, 2011
10:14 pm
Ray i will let you buy tickets to watch this great team in 2012. I will not attend one game in 2012 nor will i watch on tv or listen on the radio. as long as frank wren and freddie gonzalez are a part of the braves
Braves Fan
December 22nd, 2011
10:15 pm
Please look for a legitimate shortstop and left fielder. Chipper is done and needs to take his overpaid behind somewhere so we can sign somebody else. Chipper we love you and always will but you need to go and release that money so we can sign somebosy that can help us!
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
10:19 pm
MitchC, actually the braves are closer to one of the youngest teams than being one of the older clubs. The phils are actually one of the older clubs. One could make as many questions about the phils as the braves. As stated earlier, the phils are the ones to beat in the east.
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
10:22 pm
jharber,, 1) never said the team was great. Quite frankly i would not classify any team in 2012 great. Do I think they need to make a few moves, yes. Do I think they are a contender yes. And so since you will not buy a ticket watch or listen.. so we won’t be reading a single post by you about a game this year?
smoltz29
December 22nd, 2011
10:25 pm
If the season started tomorrow, and everything broke right…… we are an 85-77 club. NO PLAYOFFS
dap01
December 22nd, 2011
10:26 pm
The Atlanta fans are being lied to. The Braves are CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP. The only focus of this offseason is to dump payroll.
I am so sick of hearing about Seth Smith. The Braves does not need a left handed platoon outfielder who does NOT play center. He is the very picture of average. The problem with the Braves is that the whole team is average. Average does not win.
Again, the Braves fans are being lied to. Why not write an article about the owners responsibility to put out a product in which fans would actually want to go see?
Cheap, Cheap, Cheap. Just admit to needing to cut payroll, the fans would accept that more than the lies.
mike readdy
December 22nd, 2011
10:28 pm
Since the mets are rebuilding, lets offer some of our prospects for david wright,bring chipper off the bench and keep prado in left.You could have bourrn,prado wright,uggla, mcann,heyward and freeman.That would be as good of a lineup in baseball.Somebody please make me wrens advisor!
David
December 22nd, 2011
10:29 pm
Frank Wren likes the team. The more salient question is, do prospective season ticket purchasers like it?
Plate Appearance
December 22nd, 2011
10:30 pm
ON ADAM JONES
Here’s an article on the Braves interest in Adam Jones that’s worth reading:
http://paullebowitz.com.previewyoursite.com/blog/?p=3456#.TvOW7GcYOLk.twitter
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
10:31 pm
G made a comment about Wren saying he likes the team. But why is he trying to make moves. G– any and every gm tries to improve their team every year whether they are the ws champs or not. I personally don’t have a problem with Wren saying he likes the team. You would think we were the A’s or the Royals. Hey smoltz, IF the season started tomorrow, there would be a lot of teams that would be in trouble, including the phils.
Mitchell
December 22nd, 2011
10:33 pm
The fact is the Braves have gone down in flames three years running despite making the playoff once and in reality the team’s fall from 7.5 up on the second place Phillies to 6 back to finish the 2010 season is arbuably more egregious than what occured in September of 2011.
In the past three seasons they have finished 0-6, 2-4 and 1-5 in their final six regular season games. That should tell you all you need to know. It’s on them.
The organization has gone from being one of the most respected if not envied in all of baseball for a decade plus to essentially has beens. We’re looked down on, mocked, passed over, etc.
We hold the record for consecutive first place finishes in any sport and now we’ve become so second-rate we have taken to proudly hanging wild card banners.
I just read Sports Illusrated’s end of year obituary of former A’s manager Dick Williams. Reggie Jackson is quoted as saying, “He demanded excellence.”
Now is Dick Williams on par with Bobby Cox in the canon of great managers? Perhaps not.
But what did Bobby Cox ever ask of his players. Show up on time?
Proof that you get what you ask for.
The expectations put on this team each year are so low it’s embarrassing and yet they’re hardly ever met. It doesn’t matter what the Phillies or Marlins do. The Braves have more than enough pieces to put it all together but they can’t get it done, and they’re no reason to think next year will be any different, so who gives a toss about Jose Reyes and Heath Bell or the Phillies.
Mitchell
December 22nd, 2011
10:37 pm
Ray
December 22nd, 2011
10:19 pm
MitchC, actually the braves are closer to one of the youngest teams than being one of the older clubs. The phils are actually one of the older clubs. One could make as many questions about the phils as the braves.
Yeah, but the Phils still know how to win. Just like we used to once upon a time.
As of this date I would bet they win the division but don’t go very far in the post-season. I’m not buying the Marlins.
85-77 sounds about right for us. Second place but no wild card and more excuses.
taudawg
December 22nd, 2011
10:38 pm
You would think we were the dregs of the league last year. Just because we haven’t made a move, we suck?
Good grief boys and girls, please relax. If we don’t make a move, we get Hanson back, JJ for the whole year, a healthy Prado, no Lowe, a new young arm or two. We also don’t have to watch DP’s by Gonzalez and lack of production from McClouth. So we add some players for a full season and we have some addition by subtraction.
I still think we’ll make a trade. So I will be patient. But seriously, just because teams are buying doesn’t mean they will overtake us. Settle down and just enjoy the ride.
Reasoning
December 22nd, 2011
10:39 pm
Andruw Jones>>Adam Jones
Gene
December 22nd, 2011
10:42 pm
Wren scares me.
phil
December 22nd, 2011
10:43 pm
Fire someone….
And then fire FG!
Mitchell
December 22nd, 2011
10:47 pm
The fact that the god awful Diamondbacks and their apocalyptically, historically s****y bullpen could go from the 60s in wins to 94 W’s in the span of one season and the Braves not only cannot improve on 91 wins in 2010 but can muster only 89 after adding Dan Uggla to the line-up and boasting arguably the best bullpen in baseball, and maybe the best in ever in Atlanta, is disgraceful, hugely pathetic and embarrassing.
Braves Fan
December 22nd, 2011
10:47 pm
Enter your comments here
Ben
December 22nd, 2011
10:50 pm
I’m still not over the collapse. Any talk of next year is futile.
wins-by-a-link
December 22nd, 2011
10:50 pm
Liberty Media please give Atlanta a great Christmas gift, Sell the Braves so that we can return to the World Series, Since you have no interest in fielding a winning team let another Owner have a shot at it.
Braves Fan
December 22nd, 2011
10:52 pm
What’s the difference between Chipper Jones and Dennis Erickson? Nothing! Both are past their prime and just need to accept the fact that their time is over. Just walk away man and give someone else a chancce!
Kentavo
December 22nd, 2011
10:53 pm
Here’s all you really need to know about Braves payroll – they couldn’t afford $7 for Josh Willingham.
Mitchell
December 22nd, 2011
10:54 pm
taudawg, exactly.
We don’t need to do anything. We should be able to win. We manage that almost solely on pitching and the bullpen. We ought to be able to compete with the Phillies. We do not. We are talented enough to win the division, the National League and the World Series but we won’t.
Kentavo
December 22nd, 2011
10:56 pm
Methinks they better hold onto Prado and JJ because they’re going to need them.
STRETCH
December 22nd, 2011
11:02 pm
Typical Braves.
They will continue to be a team that CAN pitch, but CANT hit cause they stock up with pitchers. Yes you can get throught the season with good pitching, but when you get to the post season, sometimes you need a hit or two to advance!
I dont know which organization is worse, the Braves or the Hawks. Atlanta is Clevand SOUTH!
Jack G
December 22nd, 2011
11:02 pm
HOW SOON WE FORGET.—-After the meltdown last season it was almost a consensus on this blog that Fredi did a lousy job last year. And it is a fact that he did a lousy job. You cant just blame it on 1st year on the job (unless you call trying to be BC)Fredi was and is an experienced MLB manager and should have done a better job than he did. Unless he improves this year, it is going to be the same old same old.and adding new players is not going to change that
STRETCH
December 22nd, 2011
11:05 pm
So ready for Chipper to go. A real organization would tell him its time to go, but the Braves will always play that loyalty role which is killing them. Im already prepared for another 120 game season from him while he sucks the team dry.
Heck he might not even give them 100 games this season!!!
TeheranTime
December 22nd, 2011
11:13 pm
Stretch, great point. Atlanta of the ’90’s could fill its roster with marginal players at the positions because they had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery and whoever else they filled out the rotation with. These starters are good but not in the great category of the starters of days gone by. They won many games by the score 2-1 or 3-2. These starters just aren’t that good and need much more offense to back them up. These Braves are also not as good defensively. Atlanta could afford to have Rafael Belliard at short, Greg Olsen at Catcher, Sid Bram at first and Otis Nixon in center though they weren’t going to hit a lot, they played solid defense. This team needs a solid bat at short and a big bat in left and they can compete in the NL East.
Mitchell
December 22nd, 2011
11:14 pm
mike
December 22nd, 2011
9:11 pm
all of you folks saying that Atlanta will finish fourth place have no right to call yourselves braves fans. unbelievable how you guys can’t have faith in the team because they don’t make a move. apart from getting a back up 3rd baseman atlanta does not need to make a move. it’ll be a close race with Philly for 1st place in division. Atlanta WILL get one of those 2 wild card spots
Wow.
Kentavo
December 22nd, 2011
11:14 pm
I wasn’t expecting ‘em to sign Pujols, but they could at least do something to bolster the bench. That being said, I’d rather see ‘em try the in-house youngsters than try to sell us on washed up veterans.
If you take away Chipper and Huddy, this is an extremely young team.
wayn-o
December 22nd, 2011
11:15 pm
Calm down, Braves only needed to win one more game to get to the playoffs. Lowe is gone, so that’s like what 5 more games, minimum. Keep Jurrjens & Prado. Gonna need them.
Just Wanna Say
December 22nd, 2011
11:29 pm
Guys. This is still a good team. Calm down. The offseason is not even over yet
Henry Aaron's Ghost
December 22nd, 2011
11:30 pm
Its simple and most here just don’t realize it. The Braves are going down hill. They pay a huge chunk of their payroll to players that are not going to be on the field but about 80% of the time. I.E. Chipper Jones at age 40 will be lucky to play 125 games and make what, $15-16 MILLION to miss 30-40 games and make his salary? That’s IF he does not yet get hurt and miss even more time.
Will Hudson recover and pitch 30 games? Making another $12+ million or more. Tommy has a bum shoulder. Will he come back? Not a huge salary, but holding down a roster spot and $$ while maybe yet needing shoulder surgery. As one who has had a like injury, I had to have the surgery to fix it and I was not trying to throw 95MPH.
Will McCann recover his lost bat from last year. His injury cut his production. He is older, a catcher, thus prone to have a sudden injury again. They want to trade JJ because they are too cheap to pay him future salary. HOW MANY MLB TEAMS, other than Oakland, are looking to TRADE one of their best pitchers and under age 26???? How many???
They pay a huge amount to a 2B that hits .235 and knocks in less than 100 runs. A bunch of second half dingers did not help much. Had he done half of what he did in the second half in the first half, maybe they build a larger lead and not miss out. Who knows.
They HOPE Heywood comes back to his rookie form, or is he another Frenchie, which means most here will be yelling for him to be traded by July 31st if he is floundering again.
They want to trade Prado. What plays LF? They want some used up, broken down, .235 hitter to be the back up? Good grief!
I have been watching the Atlanta Braves since the FIRST day they came into Atlanta in 1966. I attended games that very first year. In all the time since that time, this is the worst management that I have seen in Atlanta. I have never seen a team in Atlanta that is taking as many steps as this one to get rid of good players and reduce payroll as fast as this bunch.
The only way this ever changes is the fans react with their feet. Walk out and refuse to come back until management makes improvements. How do you think they would react if NO ONE attended opening night?? What if they had a game and no one showed up?? Of course that will never happen, but refusal to go to games, no watch on TV or support the sponsors, refuse to buy the caps and T shirts. Only hitting the Braves where it really hurts will make them pay attention. If you keep going, paying for it, they will continue to treat you the way they do. Do you continue to go to a restaurant if they give you bad food? Nope. You quit going there. The Braves are putting a lousy product on the field and are refusing to fix it. So by continuing to support it, you are aiding and abetting it. I quit going to Braves games years ago. I can watch them lose on TV for the monthly DirecTV payment and save the money spent on trying to take a trip to Losersville, GA.
Whatever you think, the Braves are not going to change. Simple as that. Since the new ownership came in, they gave gone down. Simple as that.
Bobby Hill
December 22nd, 2011
11:36 pm
When I look at each of Wren’s decisions this off season i have to agree with all of them. Trading Lowe was an easy call. Avoiding the free agent pool is a shrewd move this off season. I think Jurrjens is expendable, but also at a bit of a low water mark in terms of trade value. So while it would be nice to acquire a LF and a prospect of two, the team doesn’t have to trade Jurrjens. Almost the exact same thing could be said of Prado. You can really only justify trading either of these guys if the trade makes the team better.
So while I agree with each of these decisions or positions individually, I think Wren has painted himself into a bit of a corner. This team collapsed in spectacular fashion. Far worse than the Mets a few years back. This team never clicked last year and anyone arguing for standing pat is ignoring the obvious.
So, Wren can’t bear the thought of trading away Prado and Jurrjens when their respective trade values are so low, and he can’t take on salary without trading Prado or Jurrjens. The only options he’s got left are to sell Prado and Jurrjens for pennies on the dollar to bite the bullet and trade one or more of his prized pitching prospects. No wonder he hasn’t made a move yet.
Personally, I don’t think its ideal or even realistic to have a rotation composed of such young pitchers. I think a couple of veterans in the rotation is a good thing. Why not trade Viz or Delgado for a LF bat?
Steve
December 22nd, 2011
11:41 pm
How many time have the Braves made the playoffs under Fumbling Frank Wren? If I performed at his rate, I’d get fired
Clipper
December 22nd, 2011
11:45 pm
I agree with number 5 the players have to perform and many of them didn’t down the stretch last year. That’s because of the manager, that is his job. The Braves would have won if Constanza would have stayed in the lineup. This team was very exciting to watch when we acquired Borne and then inserted Constanza in the lineup. Why did Freddie sit him down? No one really answered that question. The only answer ever given was that his average was slipping, but players can’t keep hitting .380 very long. When he dropped to .310 he was benched. The Braves started losing at that point. I don’t think the Braves need to make many moves, because we have good players, they just need to perform, and Freddie has to find a way to do it.
Bill
December 22nd, 2011
11:48 pm
Do you really believe this team is good, wayn-o?
Give me a break, we have no SS and no regular LF. We have no bench to talk of. We have five are six player that had injuries and couldn’t hit the side of the barn. Nothing today to prove they will be better next season. How much would you bet J-Hey will be better? Will Hanson and JJ come back? will Prado ever have another all-star year? Will Chipper go without injury? Will Pastor at SS be able to cut it? Will McCann stay healthy? Will Uggla have another so-so year? On and on?
I’m a Brave fan but I wish for more and Fans deserve better.
Rilo
December 22nd, 2011
11:49 pm
Is this even a question? What a disappointment so far.
Bill
December 22nd, 2011
11:54 pm
The best thing on Braves blog lately is DOB’s Music….thanks DOB for at least keeping it alive…..
Gwinnett Fred
December 22nd, 2011
11:54 pm
Scariest thing is that we have such a suspect lineup and the the NL East (sans NY) is lining up to be able to throw some studs on the mound. At 19 games per, that’s 57 (slightly over 1/3 of the season) we will see some damn good pitching from Phi, Mia & Wsh. As I said, scary. IF we don’t somehow find a way to win about 40 games while scoring 3 or fewer runs, we are looking at a 4th place finish in the division.
Folks...it's about profit and loss (NOT WORLD TITLES)!
December 22nd, 2011
11:59 pm
Okay ATL sports fans. It’s not about World Championships in ATL; it’s about profit/loss and marketing. Same for Hawks and Falcons. You’re getting duped to sit in traffic, pay $100 (4 hot dogs, 4 beers, 4 fries) to eat, pay $20 for parking, sit it 95% humidity, etc.
And, what have you got to show for your investment? Nothing. Management and owners don’t care about winning the big dance; they only want to get into your wallet.
I’d rather watch college (although I’m afraid college sports is headed down same path) and kid sports.
Pro sports have been ruined forever!
Formely Known As BravesfaninWis
December 22nd, 2011
11:59 pm
Yes the Braves have lost ground. Not because the other teams in the division have gotten stronger, but because the Braves sat with their hands up their arses and just make excuse after excuse about everything. I am so sick and f’n tired of this team. I have been a diehard Braves fan for 25+ years now and all they do is falter and fall on their faces. I am sick of spending my hard earned money year after year on this team when all they do is choke.
The Phillies will win the division again, the Marlins won’t be far behind the Phillies, and the Nats won’t be far behind the Marlins. The Braves will be lucky if they finish 4th in the division next season and the last time I checked, no 4th place team in any division makes the playoffs. The Braves front office can screw themselves, I will not spend one more cent or one more minute of my time on this team until they show their fans that they will compete with the rest of the teams. This team is the poster child for pathetic, and I really hope that all the fans in Atlanta say enough is enough with this team and don’t show up to the park. Maybe then these retards in the front office will wake up and realize that they can’t just take our money anymore.
Gwinnett Fred
December 23rd, 2011
12:01 am
BTW, we were 20-56 when scoring 3 or less runs last year and as I already said, with the improved pitching in the division, no reason to think we will not be held to 3 or fewer any fewer than last years 76 times. Not looking good.
Mister Frisky
December 23rd, 2011
12:02 am
Like Bill said too many question marks.They need to make this deal for Adam Jones than go get a shortstop that can hit.Then maybe God willing they can get close to Philly and repell the Nats and Fish.
JCL
December 23rd, 2011
12:02 am
David,
Why is no one in the Atlanta media pointing out that Chipper Jones is set to keep this team out of the playoffs for the second year in a row as he takes $14million to hit .275 or so and play around 110 games? Chipper is tarnishing his legacy and hurting his team. I’m tired of hearing that he’s like having another coach on the bench. The other coaches don’t take up $14million in salary that could be used to sign another bat and some consistency at the hot corner.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
12:04 am
1. We HAD the potential to have Freeman, Prado, Yunel and Chipper/Infante.
Uggla was a solution for a problem we did not have.
2. I’d like to see us grab Charlie Blackmon from Colorado.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
12:06 am
@JCL, unless I’m mistaken, Chipper was something like the 3rd most productive 3rd baseman in the NL last year, and he played hurt waiting to have the knee scoped, and he played while recovering it.
Chipper has done nothing but put up HOF numbers for this team. If he wants to play, he gets to play.
count_schemula
December 23rd, 2011
12:07 am
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/3b/league/nl
Get off Chippers chip.
Formely Known As BravesfaninWis
December 23rd, 2011
12:13 am
For the guys on here saying how can we call ourselves Braves fan if we say they will finish 4th in the division. It’s called being a realist, try it sometime. For any fan that still thinks this team will contend, stop being such a homer. Its cute and all that you support your team no matter what, but I don’t watch sports just to say “Oh well, there is always next year” To hell with that, if a team can’t do what is necessary in order to compete with the teams in their own division, then they don’t deserve to have fan support.
Also, the people saying that we will have Jurrgens and Hanson for the entire year, how do you know that? Jurrgens has missed time every year since we traded for him, and Hanson can’t stay healthy for a entire season if someone threatened to bleach his hair blonde. Add that to the injury concerns of Chipper, the not knowing of Uggla will start slow again, the not knowing if Heyward will bounce back, the not knowing if Prado will be apart of this team, and the not knowing of Pastornicky will amount to crap. That is to many what ifs to be considered a contender. The Braves front office has dropped the ball big time, and when all of this blows up in their faces, I hope every single one of them gets canned.
Ben
December 23rd, 2011
12:20 am
Mitchell, at 10:53 is right on the money. It doesn’t matter what the Braves do because we have such a tradition of accepting defeat. It’s becoming really predictable, and I’m sick of being just good enough to make the playoffs. The Braves organization behaves like a corporation. No personal touch, and is just good enough to keep you from switching brands. I’m becoming really bored with it.
We are extremely blessed to have such a talented roster, but the culture just isn’t right in the clubhouse. Fredi is afraid to rock the boat, or has no interest in undocking the boat. I can’t tell. I just don’t get a strong leadership vibe from him at all. Bobby was so charismatic and likeable the players wanted to play well for him; that’s why he worked out for so long. That’s really the secret of all great managers. They make you work harder without you even realizing you’re working harder. Fredi just likes to tinker with the lineup in hopes that he’ll stumble on the magic formula.
Mister Frisky
December 23rd, 2011
12:23 am
FKABFWis,You said it all my friend, like you I live in the real world.Sad thing is,were gonna be right.
Ben
December 23rd, 2011
12:43 am
“1. We HAD the potential to have Freeman, Prado, Yunel and Chipper/Infante.
Uggla was a solution for a problem we did not have.”
Thank you! Uggla is the monkey wrench that got thrown into this machine. His salary is the new stumbling block of the future. What team trades for a 2nd baseman when they already have an all-star at the position? He’ll make $15 million next year, while we hee and haw about how we’re going to pay 3 all stars(Bourn, Prado, and Jurrjens) around a combined $17 million.
Sean
December 23rd, 2011
12:56 am
I can’t believe all the Brave bashing that is going in our own blog. YES this team collapsed down the stretch because the bullpen fell apart (overworked) and we lost two of our aces after the break. BUT we are still an extremely competitive team that is only getting better each year because of maturity to the major league level. Our starting pitching, the strength in the 90s, is coming into its own and even if we run into issues health wise our depth is ridiculous.
Now I agree that I would have loved to see a big move over the Winter Meetings or shortly there after, but we are a team that’s not missing a lot of pieces.
Brian will return to ALL-STAR form
Freddie will have another good year, but I do not see a sophomore slump effecting him like J-Hey
Uggla will only get better because its pretty hard to go down from where he was most of the year.
Tyler will prove a lot of doubters wrong and come into his own at SS. (No ROY, but respectable)
Chipper will have a decent year if he is healthy, but he is more of a leader in the clubhouse then the Chipper of the past in the late 90s and early 00s
Diaz/Prado- great duo in LF because Prado will bounce back and Diaz was always a clutch hitter with us the first go around and I see him stepping up.
Bourne in Center is PERFECT (WREN PLZZZZ lock him no matter the price)
J-Hey will be better because he is dedicated to undue the damage and has the tools to be special.
Our offense is going to better then last year because of the speed at the top and the players in the heart. The pitching will be strong year round and our bullpen will be top notch if used correctly. These are the pieces of a team heading into OCT. Whether that is the WC or EAST idk, but it will happen and GO BRAVES!!!
P.S. If all you pissed off Braves fans stop attending games because you are pissed then our rival fans will outnumber at home games and how is that fair to the team. Show some support and fill up the ballpark once in a while. Our dedication to this team is $#!) and we need to prove to the rest of the baseball world that we love our team regardless of the outcome. IF you FILL it they will WIN!!
Cali
December 23rd, 2011
12:59 am
If Chipper would do the right thing and retire, the Braves wouldn’t have to pay $13 mil for a part time player and there would be some payroll room.
Gwinnett Fred
December 23rd, 2011
1:05 am
Cali – What makes you think the pathetic ownership group would re-invest Chippers $13 million if he retired. They haven’t re-invested any of the money they have shaved off so far have they?
Joey Paden
December 23rd, 2011
1:28 am
Braves are done. Wren is the reason why they are done. Fire him now John. Fire him now.
space monkey
December 23rd, 2011
1:30 am
Of course the team has lost ground to its rivals, but getting rid of Lowe should be worth five wins.
Joey Paden
December 23rd, 2011
1:32 am
Enter your comments here
Joey Paden
December 23rd, 2011
1:35 am
Ihave been a braves fan for years.And I see the downfall coming.I don’t want to be a cubs fan who always says maybe next year. I want to be a braves fan.
gotigers72
December 23rd, 2011
1:46 am
This is a 4th place team until the cheapos from Liberty sell it to a Ted Turner/Mark Cuban type owner. Someone that will loosen the purse strings to get some players as Ted did when he owned the Braves. Also will be a 4th place team until Fredo is fired as manager. He is terrible. The way he just let them spin to the bottom w/o stopping in the last 30 games.
Example; Letting Lowe start the next to last game when he had not gotten anyone out in September. Others said, “What was he to do, start a rookie?” Well…yeah. Could not have been any worse than Lowe. Other examples; His inconsistent line up construction, keeping Parrish as hitting coach when it was obvious that he was not helping any hitters, keeping Schafer at leadoff with his horrendous OBP. Etc., etc. The man is just not cut out to be a major league manager.
Fix those two things. Get rid of Liberty and Fredo and the Braves will start climbing back toward the top.
Joey M
December 23rd, 2011
1:53 am
In all honesty, as long as we don’t trade Prado or any pitcher not named Jurrjens this off season will be considered a success. Hopefully, Heyward will improve, Freeman won’t have a Sophomore slump. Our rotation will be better now that we won’t have Lowe going out there pitching batting practice every 5 days. I can deal with Pastornicky at short, Prado in left, and platooning Hinske in Left when Chipper sits. Prado can fill in at third. Pastornicky will be a number 8 hitter. As long as he hits better than .250 he will be an upgrade from Gonzalez. My largest concern is the back end of our bullpen. They were amazing last year. The only thing is O’VentBrel pitched a lot of games and a lot of innings. Hopefully Arodys Vizcaino, Christian Martinez, Anthony Varvaro, and Corey Gearrin can provide enough good outings to reduce the load on the big 3. Medlen is the most exciting for me. He will more than likely start the season in the bullpen. In 2010 he was fantastic. With his arm being stronger, Medlen’s sinker will be better than before. Beachy will be better, Mike Minor looks like he’s going to have a bright career. Julio Teheran will get a chance in the Spring. Not sure how that’s going to go. Only move I think we should make is maybe signing a veteran reliever like John Grabow or Todd Coffey. The starting rotation is solid. The bullpen is a strength as long as it’s not overrun. The questions hinge on Chipper’s health, the outfield’s production, and overall durability of our stars.
gcs
December 23rd, 2011
1:58 am
Pastornicky is a good hitter but his defense is suspect. In 2011, he had 19 errors at AA Mississippi, 7 at AAA Gwinnett in 117 total games. Gonzalez by comparison had 12 in 149 games. Only one MLB player, Starlin Castro, had more than 26 errors in 2011 (29 in 158 games).
Pastornicky is not ready to take over shortstop.
.
Bill
December 23rd, 2011
2:01 am
Sean..I’m going to win the lottery too…Man you in a dream world.
Anyone thats happy where they win are lose is a fool! I hate a loser…
GaryinBham
December 23rd, 2011
2:13 am
Nobody’s happy about losing, Bill. I agree. But you don’t improve automatically with huge trades or signings either. But look on the bright side–a whole year of Bourn and Proctor will not make 31 appearances and D. Lowe will not start 34 times. That’s got to be worth SOMETHING.
joe petty
December 23rd, 2011
2:16 am
Ive been a Braves fan since early 80″s and i can say Frank Wren is the most incompetent General Manager in Baseball ever! he watch the team choke down the stretch without doing anything! He keeps saying he likes his team!!! Come on what are we going to do Huddy is down and wont probably start the season, the bull pen was over worked last year causing a disaster at the end, starting pitching this year is a Triple A team with no experience, Heyward is not a team player he is all about his self! when a major leaguer walks back to the dug out after striking out on 3 pitches and just blows a bubble and this wasnt just once this was a habit with Heyward ! ive stuck with the braves over and over thru losing years but this is pathetic to let a GM just stand pat after blowing the wild card!! im about too not be a Braves fan or a MLB fan this feels like a houston astros team!!!
FelixMillan
December 23rd, 2011
2:51 am
FYI: The chairman of Liberty Media is John Malone. He was the CEO until the past year. Malone is the numer 1 landowner in the United States: 2,200,000 acres. He became number 1 in 2011 when he passed his good friend and former Braves owner, Ted Turner.
Malone notes that it was Turner who “first gave me this land-buying disease” on a helicopter ride the two shared on a Turner ranch.
Malone profile:http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/
I guess the Braves lost out to land with both men.
Bob in SF
December 23rd, 2011
3:19 am
Someone asked me to back up my statements about Uggla being a brutal 2b so here ya go. Out of the 18 regular starting 2B in MLB who played regularly enough to qualify for fielding rankings, Danny was 17th in errors, 17th in fielding percentage, 14th in range factor and dead last in UZR at an astounding -12.2. Dan Uggla is simply the worst defensive 2B in MLB. His bat barely makes him replacement level. If they want to build around pitching they need to get better in the field.