10:10 pm December 19, 2011, by David O'Brien
December 20th, 20114:01 pm
I admit that I do not know what IBKL means. Could you inform me CB?
Somehow, Yuniesky Betancourt got ANOTHER major league contract. Absurd. He must have dirt on Dayton Moore.
Nolie @ 3:50 it was for Ward….
My 3:36 was a Swooooooooosh right over Wards head!!!
December 20th, 20114:03 pm
Of the guys without options, who would you want to see wearing a Braves uni?
More than one way to acquire talent. Free agency alone is not always the answer. Trades can be made.
All, it’s been great talking,and After doing some thinking.I think the Braves will be fine with all the young talent coming in. At least the Braves are not getting older like the Phillies. The Braves are getting younger,and stronger. Peace,and talk after work tonight……….
December 20th, 20114:04 pm
Zwacky, blog joke. I blame Keith Law.
CraZy – If Chipper plays well enough to vest his option for 2013, Braves will likely be happy to keep him for $7M (not really their choice, if he vests). I don’t know that they will offer him an extension, under any circumstances.
richbrave, I don’t have a clue.
CB, I saw this comment on twitter from Law:
I hate the Atlanta Braves
December 20th, 20114:06 pm
Trades… with what? Most of the marquee talent in the organization will be on the roster by then.
December 20th, 20114:07 pm
At least the Braves are not getting older like the Phillies. The Braves are getting younger
Is Frank Wren is father time???
Efrim, I was afraid you were going to say it said ” I hate Atlanta Braves and CB”. LOL
Thank you CB. I’ll blame him too
December 20th, 20114:08 pm
Is Frank Wren father time??
December 20th, 20114:09 pm
•Carlos Beltran figures to agree to terms by Sunday. His market includes the Cardinals, Blue Jays, Red Sox and a fourth team, possibly the Rays. Beltran is weighing two and three-year offers, Brown reports.
Yes the Braves have a history of making most of their changes through trades and not through free agency
Most of the marquee talent in the organization will be on the roster by then.
And they can’t be traded? You guys are obsessing over who is going to play 3rd base in 2013. It’s December 2011. I wouldn’t worry about it right now.
December 20th, 20114:10 pm
MF – I don’t have the desire to go back and look up the numbers at this point…so I’ll just say that I’m “pretty sure” you are wrong about the payroll commitments for 2012 vs 2013. There should be considerable money available in 2013…all of which will get spent, I’m sure…point is that we will have many more options after 2012.
What would you guys think of Erick Aybar or Stephen Drew? I think both are free agents after 2012, so would fit what we need in a SS. Do we match up with the Angels or DBacks at this point? Maybe JJ and a prospect for Trumbo and Aybar?
Anyone else want to punch Keith Law in the nose every time you see him on tv??
December 20th, 20114:11 pm
Not true. This off-season we were supposed to have a ton of money…but low and behold…it disappears magically through “increases and raises”
They traded for Michael Bourn this trading deadline adding 7 million to the payroll. Don’t listen to people who say “with this guy off the books, and this guy off of the payroll”. That is NEVER the way to look at it and way too many here do that. It’s about what dollars are guaranteed to players. Even with arbitration eligible folks, those contracts aren’t guaranteed dollars.
December 20th, 20114:13 pm
All you can do is keep adding talent to the farm every draft which increases the overall talent you have which then allows you to make more trades. The Braves have operated this way for years. Yes, I haven’t been happy with their drafts the last few years, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have any tradeable assets.
Does anyone actually listen to what Keith Law says…especially about the Braves?
December 20th, 20114:16 pm
I think a trade is brewing. Why would KC pick up Bentancourt they have a good SS in Escobar unless he’s headed to Atlanta for JJ.
KC has wanted JJ all winter.
You guys are obsessing over who is going to play 3rd base in 2013. It’s December 2011. I wouldn’t worry about it right now.
It’s all connected… moves (or lack of moves) made now all impact what happens down the road.
Besides, it’s not like the Braves 2012 Hot Stove is exactly burning things up… gotta talk about something.
December 20th, 20114:17 pm
Yeah…although it’s a really strange feeling to get when I’m simply turning on the TV to watch Jeopardy!
Please ignore the last comment…my reading skills are apparently not very good.
Ya know who is pretty good? Jerry Crasnick. He and Ken Rosenthal are constantly breaking news for MLB. Not seeing Jon Heyman breaking too much news. Perhaps Danny Knobler does, but Buster and many others aren’t providing scoops as much anymore. Rosenthal is all over it.
December 20th, 20114:18 pm
I sure hope so. He’s got some pop in that stick. If he could just lay off crushing air molecules frequently, we could have a serious player.
Escobar had an OBP of .290 last year… is he really all that great?
Great story, thanks for sharing. One night a couple of weeks ago, I went outside with my dog so he could do his business and saw something dark move out the the corner of my eye…I happened to have my flashlight with me and when I put the light on my patio, there was a huge cottonmouth snake between 2 boxes against the wall. I had to move closer to see what it was for sure and it rared (sp?) up at me, so I slowly backed off and kept my light on him and he stayed put. I didn’t have anything handy to use on the varmit, so I used my cell phone to call my neighbor, but he was 30 minutes away eating supper…I told him to put on his Superman suit and get over here quick, but it was almost 45 minutes before he got there. I spent the whole time standing at the edge of the patio shining the light on the snake and he did not move. The only problem I had was keeping my dog quiet and away for the patio until my neighbor finally got there and took care of the situation. I don’t know what I would have done if the snake had been aggressive. The thing is I take my dog out every night and, especially in the summer, I was barefooted without my flashlight and never thought the first thing about snakes, so I guess I was lucky not to come across him sooner.
Efrim – The accounting always seems fishy. I mean with all things being equal…the Braves should at least have $7.5 million extra this off-season with trading Lowe ($5) and releasing Conrad and Moylan ($2.5).
Those clearly were recent cuts to the budget. Otherwise this team was going to go into the season $7.5 million over budget.
December 20th, 20114:19 pm
Why would KC pick up Bentancourt they have a good SS in Escobar unless he’s headed to Atlanta for JJ.
Yuni isn’t an acceptable starting SS for a major league team. Somehow, the Brewers were able to trump this feeling, however I don’t believe lightning will strike twice.
Hey guys, just worked my last day and finally the company is dead… lol But anyways and thing going on with the Braves yet? New rumors?
December 20th, 20114:20 pm
“Escobar had an OBP of .290 last year… is he really all that great?”
Are you talking about Yunel who batting .290 last year? With the .370 on base?
KEITH LAW is the ESPN resident expert on all things BRAVES? Or thinks he is at any rate. Am I right?
December 20th, 20114:21 pm
I didn’t know if you had any ideas on a good CD that is similar to the Black Keys? Thanks IABrave
Not any bands that sound just like them, but some have similar blues and rock elements. Try anything by the White Stripes or get the Cold War Kids’ “Robbers and Cowards” CD, their first one. It came out in 2006. Their next two haven’t been very good, but that debut was excellent.
But why not just go back and buy some previous Black Keys? They’ve had a lot of great CDs. And the Keys’ Dan Auerbach’s solo album is also outstanding.
So you’re saying we can’t trade for a 3rd baseman for April of 2013 between now(12/20/11) and then? That’s a leap, man. Plenty of time to figure it out. You don’t need an uber-prospect ready to take over every position every offseason. It’s okay to go into an offseason having to fill a need or multiple needs. That’s what the offseason is for.
December 20th, 20114:22 pm
Escobar does not have a big stick but great glove and perfect for back up SS and third and cheap.
Lol. So the Royals will have a SS named Yuni and named Escobar…
But NOT Yunel Escobar….got it!
December 20th, 20114:23 pm
December 20th, 2011
Hey guys, just worked my last day and finally the company is dead… lol But anyways and thing going on with the Braves yet? New rumors?
Just was askin’ along those lines myself. Evidently, KEITH LAW is NOT the oracle to consult on the matter. ….well, maybe rumors.
Murph, Would you have an issue with trading Bourn and Prado to the Tigers for a return of Austin Jackson, Nick Castellanos, Brian Flynn and Jay Voss? That would settle our CF for the forseeable future plus bring in a very good 3rd base prospect in Castellanos that should be ready to field the position full-time next year if need be. Not to mention 2 LHP propects that could easily be used either as depth in the minors or as possible trade pieces. Oh I forgot, also clearing around 10 to 12 million off the payroll to be used elsewhere, contract extensions, FA, etc..
the Braves should at least have $7.5 million extra this off-season with trading Lowe ($5) and releasing Conrad and Moylan ($2.5).
DOB reported very early in the offseason that McCann reached his incentives and was now going to be paid 11.5 million instead of 8.5 million. They traded Lowe so that they could have ANY financial flexibility. Without that trade, they would of had to trade Jurrjens or Prado most likely. No longer the case.
December 20th, 20114:24 pm
I don’t think I’ve ever heard prolly 90% of those artist you listed. lol I’m only 24 years old but all I listen to is classic rock mainly. Cant get enough Zeppelin and Floyd. Just cant really get into any new stuff.
December 20th, 20114:25 pm
There’s really only 2 players from KC I would like to see heading to Atlanta in a trade..
1. Wil Myers
“They traded Lowe so that they could have ANY financial flexibility.”
That’s why they traded him? I figured it was because he was an automatic 5 earned runs and a loss every night he pitched?
December 20th, 20114:28 pm
Jones – 14
Uggla – 13.2
McCann – 11.5
Lowe – 10
Hudson – 9
Ross – 1.625
Hinske – 1.5
Diaz – 1
Total – 61.825
Bourn – 7
Jurrjens – 5.1
Prado – 4.6
O’Flaherty – 2.4
Total – 19.1
Around 81 million for 11 players(12 including Lowe). Gotta account for minimum salaried players and 14 of those will cost around 7 million. So there is your answer as to why we only have around 5 million to spend with a 91 million dollar payroll and an “increase” which was never specified by anyone.
December 20th, 20114:29 pm
12/13 KFFL.com Hot off the Wire: Royals | Alcides Escobar playing well in winter ball: Kansas City Royals SS Alcides Escobar is batting .340 with a .407…
I think this will be our new SS
December 20th, 20114:31 pm
Nope, they gave up Grenkie to get him (as well as other prospects). Don’t see them turning around and trading him the very next year, especially when he’s not even arb-eligible yet.
December 20th, 20114:36 pm
RC, nope not unless they were receiving at least someone like Simmons or Pastor included in a trade, that’s for sure.
Ok so what is the total payroll numbers for the last 3 seasons? Because the increase should be above those, correct?
Anyway, there is always a way to inflate or deflate numbers, just wish they’d give us an honest answer.
and I’m not sure he’d be much better than either of them.
December 20th, 20114:37 pm
Does anyone actually listen to what Keith Law says…especially about the Braves?..raleigh
truth is that he says a lot of good things about the Braves, ranks the org very high
December 20th, 20114:39 pm
Nick Saban is a dick
check it out…
December 20th, 20114:41 pm
Here is what I could find on the Braves Payroll:
# 2011: $ 91,044,524
# 2010: $ 83,890,334
# 2009: $ 96,726,166
# 2008: $102,365,683
So they could have anywhere from $102 million to $84 million.
Ok so what is the total payroll numbers for the last 3 seasons?
2010 they had some guys with escaltor clauses in their cotracts which needed to be factored in like Saito and Glaus. Isn’t the mid-80’s # that Cots has listed.
December 20th, 20114:42 pm
MFin04 This off-season we were supposed to have a ton of money
i dont think thats right.
I didn’t need a picture to know that. But that was funny.
# 2009: $ 96,726,166
# 2008: $102,365,683
Aren’t those the “insurance” years?
And 2010, as I said, there were incentives for players on the team that they had built in.
December 20th, 20114:43 pm
AHHH my virgin eyes! Show some wings next time, CRAZY!
December 20th, 20114:44 pm
not supposed to have all that much money this year except by what some bloggers claimed
December 20th, 20114:45 pm
Well one would think with KK, Lowe, Sherrill, Linebrink, McLouth, Moyland and all those guys coming off the books, we’d have money, but apparently not. And I get that guys get raises, bonuses, etc…but to say the only money we have is what we get from trading Lowe is absurd.
Your team just had a collapse of EPIC proportions, you can go ahead and find yourself some more money to keep your fans around.
Keith Law has had the Braves org. rankings in the Top 10 since 2008(winter after we drafted Heyward and signed Teheran). Also after we traded Tex, yet we were still a Top 10 organization and will be again this January when the rankings are released again……..
……ain’t saying anything about the following year when the Latin trio isn’t eligible anymore…..bottom half, for sure.
December 20th, 20114:47 pm
Efrim – That’s exactly what I’m saying. There is always an excuse, insurance year, inflation year, bonus year, arbitration year, call it whatever you want to call it, but there is always a way to manipulate numbers or make some excuse.
Stop making excuses and field a winning team. You will make the money back.
Instead of teaching abstinence, schools should be showing that Saban pic to young girls. “Okay girls, here’s what the male reproductive organ looks like.” Teen sex rates would drop like a lead weight!
December 20th, 20114:48 pm
MFinn04, well you’re obviously reallly mad and you’re still around. Least they haven’t lost you is the thing.
2008 is also off due to the Hampton contract. Not only was insurance covering a portion of it, but the amount the Braves were paying had been amortized over the entire time he was with the team, even though the Braves were actually paying him a larger number that year. Since the Braves were only responsible for payments the last few years of the contract (Rockies and Marlins covering the rest), they had “saved” money from those years they didn’t have to pay him to help cover the few years they did have to pay him.
Basically, without seeing the Braves internal accounting records you are never going to know exactly what the payroll is for any given year. And short of getting a job with them or pulling of an Ocean’s Eleven type heist, you aren’t going to every see their internal accounting records.
December 20th, 20114:49 pm
There were plenty of bloggers here mid-season saying that we were going to have money off the books because of McLouth and Kawkami, however they failed to remember that we signed Uggla to an extension and traded for Michael Bourn. There goes your dollars allocated for spending. Next offseason, we have plenty to spend with Hudson, McCann and Uggla set to make 34 million if the Mac/Huddy options are picked up. Could have around 30-40 million to spend if they don’t decide to re-sign Bourn and trade Jurrjens, Prado and EOF – which I think 2 of the 3 won’t be around.
I just had a company I work with send me a 5 tier box of chocolates for Xmas… and not a Russel Candies box of chocolates. The top tier was full of Godiva chocolates, the 2nd tier was full of french chocolate truffles, the 3rd tier white chocolate macadamia nuts… haven’t gotten down to the 4th or 5th tier yet.
I didn’t get them anything. And I’m not sharing with anyone. These are mine, payment for having to endure months of broken english and poor communication.
December 20th, 20114:50 pm
the Royals want Jurrjens and/or Prado but do not want to give up Myers. The Braves need a SS and could always use another bullpen arm. Crow and Escobar would be a solid get for the Braves.
“well you’re obviously reallly mad and you’re still around. Least they haven’t lost you is the thing.”
Lol, I think that was a compliment. Nah, I’m not mad, I just think it is impossible to know how much money they have to spend, and it is easy to make excuses of why they can’t spend it or don’t have it.
Well one reason you don’t have the money is because of your EPIC collapse and missing out on playoff game revenues. Go ahead and make your team a perennial playoff team and you will all the sudden be making more money.
Bay Area Steve
December 20th, 20114:51 pm
“Ocean’s Eleven type heist”
I’m playin’ Don Cheadle’s part. Called it.
December 20th, 20114:52 pm
not for both Jurrjens or Prado but for one of them. If they could get Escobar and Crow for Jurrjens they would trade Prado to the Rockies for Seth Smith and Wheeler while signing Cody Ross as the OF. Still leaves a utility guy to back up Chipper unless they are going to go with Hicks
“And short of getting a job with them or pulling of an Ocean’s Eleven type heist, you aren’t going to every see their internal accounting records.”
Alright, DOB’s Eleven…Who is in!? <— My disguise
December 20th, 20114:53 pm
MF – McLouth is offset by Bourn. It does help for KK and Lowe to fall off, but we are still paying Lowe $10M. We have to replace all those guys with someone else (except KK, of course), and some were not making a whole lot. We al;so have arb increases, and contractual increases. By the time you fill in the gaps and pay the increases, we don’t have nearly as much $$$ as many here seem to think.
The organization, and many fans believe the “collapse” was an aberration. I know you and some others will continue to obsess about it. Won’t change things much, though.
December 20th, 20114:54 pm
How is Alcides Escobar a good get? Didn’t we just get rid of an all glove/no bat SS?
It’ll be February before Wren makes a signing or trade and it’ll be a Cedeno type.
And there will still be people around here waiting for something to happen. “MAKE A MOVE WREN”. Course you’ll have the “Dude, we still have a few weeks before pitchers/catchers report. Calm down,stop being and idiot” people waiting just around the corner.
Extending Michael Bourn this offseason for a fair price would be a good move. Wren did say they would talk about it during the arbritration process.
December 20th, 20114:55 pm
Looks like Bill Conlin is in hot water, now.
“I just think it is impossible to know how much money they have to spend”
Dude. Efrim has spelled it out once a week since September. He’s within a couple of million, certainly. How much more accurate do you need? And, anyone who reads Wren’s comments, and thinks the Braves are going much over $90 million are crazy. We’re mid-pack attendance, with mid-pack revenue, and a mid-pack payroll. Get used to it. No guarantee a new owner would do better. Almost as good a chance they’d do worse. Ninety’s enough to win; it’s on the players.
December 20th, 20114:56 pm
What would O’s want for Jones and Hardy?
Still can’t believe Ryan Madson isn’t signed up with a team. Guy was one of the best relievers out on the market and the game of musical chairs screwed him. Probably going to have to sign a one year deal with a team and go back out there next offseason. Shocking that Amaro Jr. overpaid Papelbon……
December 20th, 20114:58 pm
Would love to see JJ/Hicks for Alcides Escobar and Prado/Hoover for Adam Jones
Since no trades are happening. At least something to talk about.
Dude. Efrim has spelled it out once a week since September. He’s within a couple of million, certainly.
Thank you, BAS. I’m not 100% on, but there is no way I’m more than a couple million off….I think….
From the previous blog which had 3,622 comments, nolie led the way with 218 posts. There were 292 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:
Rank Poster Frequency
1 nolie 218
2 Efrim 180
3 Lew 132
4 Brava 120
5 Bat Masterson 94
6 cabravesfan 91
7 Tom O’Hawke 82
8 TommyP 81
9 DAP 80
10 Murph 69
11 TnBrian 69
12 Ward 68
13 BraveFaninBC 65
14 RC 60
15 richbrave 58
16 David O’Brien 56
17 Trey 56
18 Lollygagger 55
19 VaBravesFan 55
20 uga-brave 53
21 jeffrey d 51
22 Venice Jim 49
23 ChattTownBrian (CTB) 48
24 tiger297 45
25 MFin04 41
December 20th, 20114:59 pm
I think giving any closer big money is a problem. If your organization is good at developing pitchers. Just keep getting a new closer every 5-6 years. Let em walk every time.
Red Sox and Reds still left to sign a closer. Madson will get paid.
I’d love to know what happened in those negotiations, Ef. Sure sounds like Madson’s agent had a handshake deal. From $50 million to maybe eight, in a month? Hope he doesn’t blow up that arm…
December 20th, 20115:00 pm
Ninety’s enough to win; it’s on the players.
So true. 90 million is more than enough.
“Shocking that Amaro Jr. overpaid Papelbon……”
I hate when people say the Phillies overpaid. Overpaying really is just a relative term. They Brave-overpaid, but didn’t Phillie-overpay.
“He’s within a couple of million, certainly.”
Ok, within a couple of million of what? The Moylan release adds at least $1.5 million more to this equation, so if he is off by a couple million and Moylan that is $3.5 million.
So there should at least be $8.5 million available
December 20th, 20115:02 pm
I’m even immature when I’m not trying to be
December 20th, 20115:03 pm
I guess the problem with the Adam Jones idea–I know some of you don’t like him like I do–is that neither team is broken out with outfielders. O’s really have no decent replacement in center, do they?
December 20th, 20115:04 pm
Best game I’ve been to in some time, Efrim. A lot of Steelers fans, but that touchdown drive shut ‘em up. Like four plays… That screen was frickin’ beautiful. Bizarre experience, man… Not knowing if they were going to play. Second time I figured was perfect for a refill or two.
December 20th, 20115:05 pm
You all seen this? Pretty funny? Moylan’s a trip.
December 20th, 20115:07 pm
“Ok, within a couple of million of what?”
Good grief, man. Payroll is very near $90 million. Any more is a guess (and, it ain’t much more).
Around 81 million for 11 players(12 including Lowe). Gotta account for minimum salaried players and 14 of those will cost around 7 million.
What are you missing?
December 20th, 20115:08 pm
Adam Jones is a breakout candidate. While he’ll never be a good OBP guy there AVG/SLG is good. But i’m not a huge fan.
December 20th, 20115:09 pm
We still have 2 months of offseason left. What’s the freakin rush??
Don’t you hate that? Just reminds me of walking in a store as a little kid and finding something I want real bad and my mom saying “maybe Santa will bring you that for Christmas … now let’s go”. And Christmas is months away.
December 20th, 20115:10 pm
Alcedes Escobar is young and still has the potential to pick it up with the bat. He is also cheap. If you do not think that Pastornicky is ready then he would be a great get. If he does well then it is never a bad thing to have too many ML ready shortstops. Adding Crow to our bullpen would be huge while allowing Vizcaino to start at AAA as a starter.
December 20th, 20115:12 pm
RC, I think he may have to settle for a one year, 8 million dollar deal like BAS said. I’d go that route if I were him. Red Sox and Angels have no incentive to lock him up to a 3 or 4 year deal with him having little leverage.
BAS, Aldon Smith is a star. It’s amazing. I was scared and skeptical as well after they took him 7th overall, but he is an absolute monster. I hate to put this sort of comp on a guy, but he sure has the exact measurements of DeMarcus Ware – 6′4” 260lbs. 13.0 sacks in 14 games, and I don’t believe he really played very much those first two or three games. Heck, he hasn’t even been playing on base downs all season. Next year, he will. I’m sure there are adjustments he’ll have to make, but the kid is a star.
Oh yeah, and the Niners are a real good team. 1st round bye is huge though. Need to play the Saints at home outside of that dome.
Congrats Murph – All I got was an iPhone, Jazz tickets and Brad Paisley tickets… Pretty sure my wife would rather have the chocolates…
December 20th, 20115:14 pm
I think the Niners are going to surprise some people, and Efrim you’re right Aldon Smith is crazy good. Steve Young compared him to Charles Haley – That’s high praise!
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