10:10 pm December 19, 2011, by David O'Brien
December 20th, 20111:35 pm
But relying on just those assumptions which could be correct or WAY OFF…is way too risky.
And Beltran at $12 – 15 million a year for two or three years isn’t risky?
We might have to wait for Gio Gonzalez, Matt Garza to get traded and Roy Oswalt, Hiroki Kuroda to sign before we can really have those desperate teams come calling for Jair Jurrjens……..
OK. Michael Bourn. His agent is Scott Boras. He WILL declare. If he hits well this year, which we hope, then Boras will want roughly 12-15 million per year for his services. Is he really worth that much of your payroll?
And if he doesn’t hit as well as he did for the first half of 2011, then Boras will still want a fortune for him. And he won’t be worth it.
And for you cry babies bemoaning our payroll, please realize we are a mid market team with a mid market payroll. If you want to pull for a big payroll team, you’ll need to change teams.
December 20th, 20111:36 pm
“They do NOT cater to the needs of you impatient bloggers.”
I’m not an impatient blogger, I’m perfectly content to wait this offseason out, but this team has a history of making decisions based on being cheap, not on doing what is in the best interest of the team.
And if you don’t think management works for fans then we can leave it at that. But management has the obligation to put the best team on the field or risk getting fired or losing the team money.
The A Bomb
December 20th, 20111:37 pm
Statue of Frank Wren being constructed at Turner Field…..
Wait — it’s the real Frank. Never mind.
December 20th, 20111:39 pm
Uggla as a Brave compared to his previous year as a Marlin: much lower batting avg, 16 less walks, 7 more Ks. Bourn, as a brave, hit for less avg, and pro-rating (for a lack of a better term), less walks, more Ks and a lower OBP.
Is it just me or does it seem like hitters stop hitting when they become a Brave?
“And Beltran at $12 – 15 million a year for two or three years isn’t risky?”
Depends on what the contract is, but I wouldn’t go $15 million…something closer to $10 million. And yes Carlos Beltran is risky, but there is a lot of reward that comes with that and you don’t have to get rid of Prado or Jurrjens.
I think a more risky deal would be Adam Jones or Seth Smith. Jones would cost way more than Beltran that’s for sure (in terms of players and money), and Smith just creates a whole set of new problems for the Braves.
The Braves are asking too much of Patornicky. I cannot understand why Wren is comfortable with him starting next year: let’s assume he really blossoms at the plate and hits .260-.270 and provides some added speed — that’s an improvement over Gonzalez if it happens. But what about his 9 errors in 27 games at AAA Gwinett and a similar fielding average in AA ball for rest of last year. His 2011 errors translate to 36 errors at SS over 150 games (vs. 12 in 2011 by Gonzo). While Wren is quick to cite his hitting potential, by all accounts and his stats, Pastornicky has no rocket arm or anything close to making some great Ozzie-type plays that may offset an error or two. It is imperative the Braves have someone at that position as this guy will be a fielding disaster, assuming he hits as forecast. I don’t share the Braves’ comfort level with Tyler and it’s not fair to him to put him in that position with his apparent fielding skills. I say get someone at that position who can catch and throw the ball without errors — resign Wilson or someone at that level. it was probably a mistake to let Gonzo go — he ended up signing a 1 year deal anyway and could have been the “bridge” player to allow Pastornicky to work on his fielding in AAA. Regrettably, even if he blossoms at the plate, his forecast increase 24 additional errors at shortstop for next year will probably cost just enough games to result in another season out of the playoffs..
patience is a virtue.
The Braves do not have to trade Prado and Jurrjens so they do not have to settle for a subpar package. There is no rush.
December 20th, 20111:40 pm
Wrong again. You are impatient. It’s December 20th and you are crying that the Braves haven’t done enough to shut you the heck up. And they do NOT have a history of making decisions on the cheap, but have a history of making decisions within their constraints.
And please reread my clarification. The Braves DO work for us fans. My point was they are not concerned that you are wringing your hands about their lack of moves here on 12/20/11.
Agreed on JJ and Bourn.
December 20th, 20111:43 pm
Ok, say I buy what you’re selling about signing Beltran and keeping Prado and JJ. Where does Prado play then? We wouldn’t pay Beltran all that money to be part-timer. And Chipper may be injured and need rest, but might not too. That makes Prado a UTIL player. In my opinion, he is a starter, not a UTIL.
the Braves biggest change will likely be in the coaching. New hitting coach and assistant hitting coach hopefully will lead to better results (or at least back to career norms). Fredi also should have learned his lesson after burning out the bullpen down the stretch.
Yes, to be a serious world series contender we need an upgrade in LF and at SS, but we are a playoff caliber team. We were the 4th best team in baseball then we lost McCann to the oblique (and he never returned to form), lost Jurrjens in addition to Hanson in our rotation, lost O’Ventbrel due to fatigue, and lost any sort of offensive rhythm as everyone sank into a massive slump at the same time.
That will not happen again
December 20th, 20111:45 pm
“You are impatient. It’s December 20th and you are crying that the Braves haven’t done enough to shut you the heck up. ”
Nope, I’m really not. I haven’t made any comment that thinks the Braves should have already made a move. I do believe the Braves need to make a move before Game 1 of the season. If that makes me impatient than sure sign me up for that label.
What I don’t want to see happen is this idea that we can make the team better at the trade deadline. Just identify what the team needs as of game 1 of the season and address it.
Clearly the Braves need a LF (perhaps he moves to RF) that can hit in the 3-5 spots in the order. Don’t trade away Jurrjens or Prado…they both are extremely valuable to this team this year.
That’s it. They can take as long as they want. But the clear needs of this team are a LF, backup SS, and to KEEP Jair and Martin.
The only way we pick up a guy like Beltran is if we deal Prado and probably Jurrjens too.
December 20th, 20111:46 pm
ajcbraves David O’Brien
Hasn’t so far. And he probably projects to corner OF. RT @jonjon3174: @ajcbraves @mgcarro Yeah, he doesnt seem to hit lefties all that well.
Then I can’t see what the fuss is over Wheeler if he’s a corner OF in the majors. I guess perhaps he’d play LF in 2013, where there will also be a hole. But if he’s a corner outfielder, that limits his value, for sure.
Mountain Braves Fan
2009 81 Games .915 OPS $18.5 million
2010 64 Games .768 OPS $18.5 million
2011 142 Games .910 OPS $18.5 million
2009 128 Games .822 OPS $415,000
2010 140 Games .809 OPS $440,000
2011 129 Games .687 OPS $3.1 million
The Braves are a business. Their fans are the clients/customers. So yes, technically Braves management works for us. Tough job for Wren to balance fans’ wants with owners’ financial wants. Suffice to say I don’t envy the man.
December 20th, 20111:47 pm
Also, I’ve read where Roy Oswalt may be willing to sign a 1 year deal. That may be an option for a year esp if they trade JJ, because really, show of hands, who really thinks Hudson is going to be ready at the beginning of the season and who thinks Hanson, with his shoulder problems, is actually going to be healthy all year.
I know the Braves have some quality arms, but they are young arms. A little veteran presence could go a long way.
December 20th, 20111:50 pm
“Where does Prado play then? We wouldn’t pay Beltran all that money to be part-timer. And Chipper may be injured and need rest, but might not too. That makes Prado a UTIL player. In my opinion, he is a starter, not a UTIL.”
Better to have too many good players than not enough. It’s true Beltran and Chipper could player 140 games each, and Prado gets very little playing time. If that’s the case then the Braves are probably in the World Series and we aren’t worried about Prado’s playing time.
Beltran plays 130 games
Chipper plays 130 games
60 games at 3B/LF
10 games 1B
10 games RF
5 games at 2B
There is at least 85 starts he gets. Not to mention he is healthier, and fresher, and has shown to be a quality utility player.
December 20th, 20111:51 pm
Here’s my Christmas list:
1. Keep Prado and JJ
2. Sign Andruw Jones to a 2-year deal plus an option
3. Trade a package of scrub minor league players for a semi-scrub veteran SS
That’s it. That’s all I want. The team is covered from top to bottom with contingency plans in case Chipper/JJ/Hanson get hurt or Pastornicky can’t perform.
Andruw, a backup SS, and the rest status quo.
C’mon Santa, I’ve been good.
DS1 @1:15 & 1:27 – VERY WELL SAID… You only forgot to include the positive results of adding a new 2-man hitting coach staff. Also, I believe the “epic collapse” was an abberation, caused by a perfect storm of many factors, which have been well documented here, and only the most pessimistic can expect it to be repeated.
Boy, let’s have a super hissy-fit on Dec 20, because Wren hasn’t made the high profile move that will satisfy the fantacy mentality of a few whiners. WE DON’T PLAY BALL FOR REAL UNTIL MARCH.
“The only way we pick up a guy like Beltran is if we deal Prado and probably Jurrjens too.”
If that is the case, DS1, which I disagree with, than I wouldn’t do it. I don’t think the Braves should deal either of them.
December 20th, 20111:54 pm
@MFin04: If everyone else is getting better and we are staying pat, aren’t the Braves essentially getting worse?
Look at the Phillies? They’ve made additions that clearly make their team better. Not to mention the Marlins will be better next year.
At some point you have to make your team better than last years team, and you can’t solely rely on the logic that everyone is going to be healthy and perform better.
That’s your statement from the last page that sure seemed to me that you were getting impatient with our lack of any improvement.
December 20th, 20111:55 pm
jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick
#Nationals, #Marlins, #Twins, #RedSox and #Yankees among clubs you think would be tempted to consider Oswalt on 1 yr deal
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Next starting pitchers on the Free Agent clock: Hiroki Kuroda, Roy Oswalt, Edwin Jackson, Paul Maholm and Jason Marquis
Joe Saunders as well. Not the greatest of options for teams at this point.
December 20th, 20111:56 pm
tmc – It’s not about “market size” however you define that (population, TV market, etc.) It’s all about revenue, and the braves are likely around the middle in that area…certainly attendance is around the middle of the pack.
AND…all of that is moot, because Wren can only spend what the owners allow him to spend, reguardless of the market.
December 20th, 20111:57 pm
“Boy, let’s have a super hissy-fit on Dec 20, because Wren hasn’t made the high profile move that will satisfy the fantacy mentality of a few whiners.”
I don’t really see anyone throwing a fit, and apparently the season starts on April 5th.
So there is a while to go. But after Beltran is off the board the Braves are going to have to get very creative in order to improve this team.
December 20th, 20111:59 pm
“That’s your statement from the last page that sure seemed to me that you were getting impatient with our lack of any improvement.”
No, I’m a very patient person. The impatient people usually make their requests known by saying something to the effect of:
WE SUCK, FIRE FRANK WREN, WE NEED TO MAKE TRADES NOW
I’d just like an Atlanta Braves Carlos Beltran Jersey for Christmas, New Years, maybe Spring Break
December 20th, 20112:00 pm
OK, so splain to me how we add a 10-12 million dollar bat and a 1-2 million dollar backup SS without dealing one or both of JJ or Marteen? We only have 5-7 million to spend.
Now, I personally hope we deal Jurrjens and pick up Beltran. But in my head, I don’t see the Braves paying Prado that much money to be a utility player.
I really don’t know what is going to happen, as none of us really do. But I do trust Frank to get the most bang for the buck that he has at his disposal. He has done a good job of doing so since he ascended to the throne.
Beltran to play 145 games over 2 yrs he got paid 37m and then another 18.5m to play 142 games.. and a lot of the ones that complain about chipper getting injured, say go get beltran.. Really? Beltran is going to cost around 12-14m a yr for 2-3 yrs. No thanks. Cody Ross would be a nice addition but not at the price he is asking.
December 20th, 20112:01 pm
“Atlanta on Aug. 25 had the majors’ fourth-best record (79-53) and was on pace for a 96-win season.”
I have two sets of unused playoff tickets. Merry Christmas.
Phillies just invested $33 million to lock up Rollins for three more years. Braves just invested ZERO in a major league shortstop. Wren searching for an outfielder evokes memories of . . . Anderson, Cabrerra, nobody [last year's entry on this downward spiral]. Lowe’s collapse removes 200 innings from the rotation. Chipper will be an unreliable 40-year old paid like he’s a 30-year old MVP. Hudson, JJ, and Hanson are all banged up, and JJ is likely to leave, leaving us with a rotation full of guys that can’t get out of the fifth inning. McCann is a huge question mark coming off a dismal, injury plagued second half. Add all this up and what do you get? More September 2011, that’s what.
The Braves are caught between making half-hearted last gasp runs at a Wild Card spot and a youth movement. For the sake of the future, admit it, stock up on prospects, and focus on winning the Division 2-3 years down the road. Who knows, the kids might bring some excitement back to the Ted.
December 20th, 20112:02 pm
Dawg – We just have to face the fact that we are never going to spend like the Phillies, you’ve got to get over it and deal with the fact until someone else buys the Braves we aren’t going to have a 140 mil payroll. We do the best with what we have and can afford..
December 20th, 20112:03 pm
If Frank lets Beltran slide without any effort to sign him, then he wasn’t really the target all along.
And that is my guess that they are NOT thinking Beltran, though a hitter of his skill set is exactly what this team needs. Players who can get on base with great frequency and drive the ball well.
December 20th, 20112:04 pm
Has Ryan Theriot signed anywhere?
If not, why not any talk of signing him? IMO, he would be a credible stop gap at Ss.
December 20th, 20112:05 pm
patrick, michael bourne is not a .300 hitter. truth is, he has been very up and down in his career. no doubt he fills some needs, but the braves have not “let him go” yet, so its a little early to be complaining about it.
also, there are about 14 MLB teams with worse attendance than the braves. what does that say about those fans? the fact is, atlanta does not have an attendance problem.
December 20th, 20112:06 pm
I’m on board with your idea. I wonder why we haven’t heard the Braves tied to AJ at all, considering their need for right-handed power on a short-term deal. He hasn’t made sense in the past, but he feels like a perfect fit at this point (unless the Yankees pay more).
Maybe we should all clear out for a while, as it seems that the sky is falling…………..
Jair Jump Down
“Roy Oswalt was looking for a three-year deal earlier in the offseason, but he has since told teams he only wants a one-year contract, according to ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick (all Twitter links). The right-hander wants to prove that his back is healthy and re-enter the market a year from now in search of multiyear security. Six teams are now talking to Oswalt and agent Bob Garber about a possible deal, Crasnick reports.”
Do JJ gets kicked further down the ladder. Soon, the Braves will be lucky to get two class A mid level prospects for him.
December 20th, 20112:07 pm
Martin Prado is many, many things. There are two things he is NOT: 1-a shortstop 2- a backup.
December 20th, 20112:08 pm
MF – I wasn’t including you in the “hissy-fit” crowd, but hissy-fits are being thrown. ..AND of course you are right about the season strarting April 5, still 3 1/2 months away…(my bad).
I think it is a combination of the impatience of youth, and a high-tech world. (we old fogies would call it an MTV mentality, but of course, MTV is now passe).
Maybe we should all clear out for a while, as it seems that the sky is falling……… _ DS1
Nah, its just raining and not very hard yet.
December 20th, 20112:09 pm
“OK, so splain to me how we add a 10-12 million dollar bat and a 1-2 million dollar backup SS without dealing one or both of JJ or Marteen? We only have 5-7 million to spend.”
The $5-7 million to spend is kinda a mythical number at this point. But let’s just say it’s $7 million. They very well could back load $ 3-4 million of Beltran’s 3 year contract and the problem is solved.
Year 1 $7mil
Year 2 $11mil
Year 3 $12mil
It can be done, not saying they should, but it can be done.
The real problem is who do the Braves see in their outfield in 2012? If Prado is traded, Bourn is gone, and Heyward fails, we could be short an entire outfield.
Would be nice to sign someone long-term like: Quentin, Beltran, Bourn, etc.
The Braves need to have at least one hitter in the line-up (preferably from the right side) that is: a legitimate threat to hit (300), with good power, does not give up at bats, can play left field & first base, and that player is (drum roll please) none other than one very affordable MICHAEL MORSE. With him they would be a legitimate threat to win it all. Please take note FW, and don”t kill us again with Matt Dias and another journeyman outfielder. p.s., you can’t trade Prado, if Chipper returns, so by default, happy trails Jair
Pitching Ain't The Cure All
December 20th, 20112:11 pm
Phils had the best starters in baseball and one of the better pens and STILL didn’t get out of the division series!
Horde all those pitchers and sit home in the post season because all your position players are swinging wet noodles and calling them bats!
Wren! Some REAL offense please!
December 20th, 20112:12 pm
I sense that the Braves are looking for a better glove for that role. Theriot has some very limited range at SS, which is probably why he can’t seem to hold down a steady job as a SS.
Probably too much water under that AJ bridge. But looking at his splits against lefties, he’d fit perfect against lefties if we went with a platoon.
So, work with me here. Let’s say we deal Prado and Jurrjens (not necessarily in the same deal). We get Seth Smith and add Andruw to challenge Diaz for the platoon role. We add Wilson Betemit to back up third and PH. And somehow, we get a suitable backup SS in one of our deals.
Are we better off with that platoon? Remember, Betemit is a decent hitter for a backup too.
Depends on what else we get in the deal(s).
December 20th, 20112:13 pm
DAP @2:05 – “there are about 14 teams with worse attendance than the Braves” …meaning there are about 15 with higher attendance…Sounds pretty mid-market to me…kinda like our payroll.
December 20th, 20112:14 pm
“Martin Prado is many, many things. There are two things he is NOT: 1-a shortstop 2- a backup.”
Martin Prado is a backup…on a GREAT TEAM. On a good or bad team he very well could be a starter. But he is very valuable as an insurance option for LF/RF/3B, if the Braves indeed go out and get a legit left fielder.
If Jason Heyward fails, than you move Prado to RF and still have 3 everyday outfielders playing.
During the Sept collapse, the Brave 1 game under 500 against the non-playoff teams on their roster, and 0 – 9 against the Phils and Cards. They are a borderline playoff contender and no more as presently constructed. I agree with DawgDad. They can be realistc title contenders in 2-3 years if they trade for prospects and go with youth now.
December 20th, 20112:16 pm
thanks for the update!
I think Beltran is probably too much, no matter what, but…you can backload his contract ONLY if he agrees to that.
December 20th, 20112:18 pm
You may be right w/ Andruw, but it seemed to be a pretty amicable split between he and the Braves, especially compared to the Furcal break. If I remember correctly Bobby told him that he pretty much had to take the contract that LA offered, and Scherholtz’s words were complimentary but simply “we can’t afford what you are worth”. Once the deal with LA was over I even remember Andruw being spotted at a Georgia Tech game wearing a Braves hat (he was an FA at the time). He still lives in Atlanta, and is friends with Brian McCann, whom he works out with during the offseason and has attended his charity softball game each year it’s been held. Not sure there is any anomosity there, but that doesn’t mean that the pieces fit either.
December 20th, 20112:19 pm
Just heard that we are very close to aquiring Tori Hunter from Angels for Prado and three other prospects!!!
Don in TN
RE your top 50, you’re slipping DOB. I’ve actually heard of some of these.
jim – What was their record against all teams (including Phills and Cards) when they are healthy? They WERE NOT a playoff team in September…THEY CERTAINLY WERE THE REST OF THE YEAR.
December 20th, 20112:22 pm
They can be realistc title contenders in 2-3 years if they trade for prospects and go with youth now.
bravesfan, at least come up with a false trade that makes sense. You do realize the Angels would have to send a ton of cash over for ATL to afford Hunter? Yeah, not happening.
Alright, Bat Masterson. Here’s the result of the squirrel conflict:
Got home and went waist deep into the fire place armed with nothing but a flashlight (because BAS questioned my gall.) After a thorough inspection, I concluded that it had managed to get above the damper and escape through the chimney. Life resumes as a normal day.
Fast forward 3 hours:
A fleeting glimpse out of the corner of the eye, revealed the little b#stard running across the computer in the living room. It’s at this time that I realize this is not a gray squirrel like the ones I used to eat with dumplins. This is a little flying squirrel, so the agility, athleticism, and skill set just shot through the roof. His value will never be higher.
So here he goes: off the desk, up the wall, across a couple of hanging pictures, back down to the floor, and then up a decorative wooden ladder that leans up on the family Christmas tree where an elf stands atop hanging an ornament. A flying leap put him back on the wall in standoff mode. Now’s my chance. A stealthful Comanche stalk allowed me to get a towel over him and close the book on this case. I read him his rights and transferred him to the woods nearby. No animals or humans were injured in the midst of this pandemonium. The elf is day-to-day.
What do you think Oswalt gets on a 1 year deal and what will Jurrjens make in arbitration? I’d like the idea of trading Jurrjens and signing Oswalt to be our 3rd starter.
December 20th, 20112:25 pm
Now Hunter makes sense for us, don’t get me wrong. It’s his monster salary that doesn’t.
December 20th, 20112:28 pm
Read something on page 4 about a Ross/Constanza platoon in LF …. All I can say is F That!!!!!!
Unless they’ve found another guy named Constanza that actually knows how to hit a baseball!
December 20th, 20112:31 pm
From 2008 thru 2010, Martin Prado is a better hitter than Torii Hunter. Just sayin.
Torii Hunter is making $18m this year? Jeez.
December 20th, 20112:33 pm
Torii Hunter plus $10-12mil for prospects but not including Prado… yeah, I’d do that.
December 20th, 20112:34 pm
MFin04 Clearly the Braves need a LF (perhaps he moves to RF) that can hit in the 3-5 spots in the order.
clearly we need that? i dont know about that. i think we have hitters already for the 3-5 spots and a LFer thats pretty dang good. i dont see a clear need for an everyday player anywhere.
December 20th, 20112:35 pm
From 2008 thru 2010, Martin Prado is a better hitter than Torii Hunter. Just sayin.
Yeah, but apparently Prado should no longer be a starter for us.
Puma, I just mentioned same thing to Bowman yesterday — said that I’d never complain again when the Braves have a really busy offseason. He agreed. Because this offseason has been boring so far, and you end up working so many hours with so little to show for it, just trying to unearth news or tips as to what Braves are trying to do.
December 20th, 20112:36 pm
Yes, I heard those stories about Andruw and his Atlanta connections. I’m just not sure that a team wants to bring back a guy who was an All Star while here to be a platoon player in his declining years.
As much as I have my doubts that he can rebound, Matt Diaz from 2009 would be a big boost to our outfield.
OK, time to get off the recliner and answer a question. Did you see any clues in Matt Diaz game that would make you think he can return to earlier levels?
You may now return to the recliner……..
December 20th, 20112:37 pm
What does Braves management have against Constanza?
Jose and Prado shouldn’t be treated this way.
Smith,Ross,etc over them makes me sick.
I doubt he’d be very happy having to leave LA, but I can think of 18 million reasons why he would get over it.
Hell, for 18 million I’d play bal lball naked in Alaska.
December 20th, 20112:38 pm
DOB, has Andruw come up in any of the conversations you’ve had with Braves officials? Positive or negative or indifferent?
He makes such complete sense for this team… money, production, position, etc… I just can’t imagine the team isn’t at least a little bit interested.
DS1, I have to say though that Prado is also a better hitter than Smith and some unproven Wheeler kid who’s had one good year in the minors, and if we’re to believe what DOB says is true that Wren is willing to deal Martin for them then Hunter for Prado would make sense. Except Hunter is too expensive. Way too expensive for us.
December 20th, 20112:39 pm
Frost bite potential would be a bitch………….
December 20th, 20112:40 pm
raleighbravesfan meaning there are about 15 with higher attendance…Sounds pretty mid-market to me…kinda like our payroll.
thats 14 teams above us. my post is in response to the guy who says braves fans are spoiled and wont come out to see the team. what does that mean for the 14 teams below us?
also, it was been established that atlanta is a big market team with a mid market payroll, attendance, ect. atlanta itself is a top 10 market.
What does Braves management have against Constanza?
Ahhh… Just that he’s not a very good baseball player. Did you watch the end of last season???
December 20th, 20112:41 pm
“i dont see a clear need for an everyday player anywhere.”
A corner outfielder then.
1B – Freeman
3B – Chipper/Prado
SS – Pastornicky
C – McCann
CF – Bourn
LF and RF are the two biggest question marks and one of them could easily be solved by finding a long-term option at at least one of those spots. I don’t think Prado is the long-term plan in LF, and Heyward clearly is a possibility in RF, but if he tanks like last year, we very well could have to complete rebuild all 3 outfield positions after this season.
December 20th, 20112:42 pm
Phil in GA: Thanks for relaying the Antico/Fredi story at 11:36. That’s funny, because I talked to Fredi at the Winter Meetings about Antico again, how he’d not been and planned to go soon. He loves trying out new restaurants, especially places that he or Roger see on Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, the TV show, or places that someone recommends or that Roger McDowell looks up on the internet. They’re a lot different than the previous regime — Bobby usually stuck to the expensive, established steakhouses or other top restaurants, had one or two favorites in every city.
December 20th, 20112:43 pm
I was looking for the update and got a good laugh from that , whew ,those are some fast moving creatures , glad you could towel him up, cause those teeth can chew through the Iron Curtain and could wreck the whole house running. Some good movies come to mind.
raleighbravesfan, sorry for teh confusion. braves were ranked 15th in attendance for 2011, so there were 14 teams ahead of them, and 15 behind them.
That’s Prado’s OPS for 2008 thru 2009. Somebody splain why we need a LF upgrade?
Maybe an all purpose off the bench guy like Cody Ross or Reed Johnson……….
But if you’re not upgrading with a Beltran type bat, I’d rather keep Martin.
Unless you get a killer prospect for him.
Because this offseason has been boring so far…
If the stories about Wren listening on Jurrjens and Prado never broke and hit the publics ear, this offseason has pretty much gone the way I expected it to after we traded for Bourn this past 7/31. There just aren’t many holes on this team.
McFann O O o
December 20th, 20112:44 pm
DawgDad McCann is a huge question mark coming off a dismal, injury plagued second half.
I wouldn’t say he’s a huge question mark…in fact, I prolly wouldn’t say he’s one at all—unless a-course something were to happen during Spring Training…
December 20th, 20112:45 pm
DOB, has Andruw come up in any of the conversations you’ve had with Braves officials? Positive or negative or indifferent? — Murph
I was told early in offseason that Braves weren’t interested, and Fredi was asked again at Winter Meetings about him and replied that they [Braves] had not discussed him.
December 20th, 20112:46 pm
CBA Winners And Losers
By J.J. Cooper And Jim Callis
December 20, 2011
One thing is constant amid the change. Whenever Major League Baseball alters the draft, there will be unexpected side effects. Adding a signing deadline for the 2007 draft, for example, led to agents and players waiting until the last minute of the deadline to sign, as they found the longer they waited, the more money teams were willing to pay.
Some of those unexpected consequences won’t become clear until MLB conducts its first draft under the new rules, but even before the final wording for the draft rules has been approved, there were some clear winners and losers.
Teams That HAVE Stuck To Slot: In the past, teams with owners willing to get a scolding from the commissioner’s office had a clear advantage in the draft: Go over slot and sign talent that was unavailable to teams who couldn’t or wouldn’t go over slot. It also meant that players could try to manipulate which team would draft them. A high asking price could mean that a player slipped past some clubs to a team willing to spend more.
Now, teams who have been limited to slot are scouting from the same pool as everyone else. There still may be high school players whose asking price makes it risky to draft them, but that risk will be shared by all clubs—not just teams that tried to stick to slot recommendations.
That’s good news for the White Sox, who always rank among the draft’s stingiest spenders, and the Mets, one of the few big market teams who usually stuck to slot. It also could help the Dodgers and Astros, although ownership changes could alter their spending approaches.
Short-Season and Rookie Leagues: The Aug. 15 signing deadline was supposed to give teams leverage to hold down bonuses. It did nothing of the sort, as it actually provided players leverage, as teams want to sign talent. But MLB’s decision to restrict teams from announcing above-slot deals until right at (or after) the deadline meant that most first-rounders (and numerous later-round picks) had to wait until the following season to make their pro debut.
That has significantly diminished the talent in the Appalachian, New York-Penn, Northwest and Pioneer leagues. Once the starting points for many early-round picks, the Rookie and short-season leagues have seen a lot more fifth-year seniors and undrafted free agents in recent years as teams had to fill roster spots. The earlier signing deadline will mean most draftees will actually play the year they are drafted.
College Coaches: The Aug. 15 deadline meant that college coaches had to play a waiting game as well. Just days before fall semester begins, coaches would learn the fate of their top recruits. When it comes to first-round picks, coaches could operate under the assumption that the player would sign, but it was the later-round picks that left college coaches unprepared. If a college coach lost a player he expected to have in school at the signing deadline, it was too late to do anything about it. The new rules will make it much easier for college coaches to assemble their rosters. The earlier signing deadline will also allow coaches a little more time to try to fill in any roster holds created if a player unexpectedly signs with a pro club. The restrictions on bonuses could mean more top high school talent finds it way to college as well.
Bud Selig: For years, the commissioner had wanted to put more limits on draft spending. While the old voluntary slot system proved largely ineffective at holding down bonuses, most in the game believe the new system will have more significant effects in reducing the growth of bonuses, both in the draft and internationally. And he did so without having to risk a labor stoppage.
Teams That Go Cheap Internationally: For teams that don’t spend much money on the international market, there is now a reward for such frugality. Teams will be allowed to trade part of their international signing allowance to other teams. For teams whose ownership limits them to spending significantly less than the $2.9 million they will be allotted in 2012, the new trade market will allow them to turn nothing (money they wouldn’t have spent anyway) into something of value.
College Juniors And Seniors: Last year, many teams seemed to realize that for most college juniors, teams hold much of the leverage. The result was a number of players ended up signing for less than they may have expected coming into the draft. Going forward juniors face a difficult choice if they don’t like the dollars a team is offering: sign for the lesser amount or go back into the draft as a leverage-less senior, where the contract negotiations largely consist of listening to what teams are willing to pay you.
Under the new system, high school players still have significant leverage. A high-round high school player can head to junior college or a four-year college and re-enter the draft again later on, while a team who fails to sign a high-round pick knows that they lose that money from their signing allotment. The balance of power appears to shift to the clubs with college juniors and seniors. Yes, the team will lose that amount of money for that year’s signing budget, but if it’s an early enough pick, they will get a replacement pick in the following year’s draft. The player could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars if he opts to go back to school. The best way to put it is that for teams, there’s a draft every year. For players, there are very few shots at a big payday.
Backup Plans: Under the old system, teams could reduce the risks that came from drafting a player with a high price tag in the early rounds by taking a similar player late in the draft. If your negotiations with one fell through, you moved on to negotiating with the other player.
The new rules make that impossible. If you struggle to sign a high-round pick, that money can’t be used to sign a 15th-rounder instead.
“With our first-round pick, we’ve always had a Plan B. Everyone does. With this (new system) I don’t see what Plan B is,” one NL scouting director said. “You’ve given the agent a lot of leverage. We can tell you right now, we’ll sign our first-round pick.”
Cuban Defectors: The new restrictions of signing bonuses for international players will not go into effect until July 2, but once they do, they could significantly affect the amount of money younger Cuban defectors receive. Under the new rules, any international players 23 or younger are subject to the international bonus limits, which will limit teams to an average of $2.9 million in signing bonuses a year on the international market. In recent years, Aroldis Chapman (a $30 million major league deal) and Leonys Martin (a $15 million major league deal with a $5 million bonus) are two of numerous examples of players who would receive significantly less money under the new rules.
Club officials wouldn’t be surprised if the trickle of Cuban defectors turns into a flood in upcoming months in an attempt to sign before the new rules go into effect.
Successful large-market clubs: Much of the initial angst about the new CBA centered around whether it would harm small-market teams like the Pirates and Royals who currently spend big in the draft.
For small-market teams, there are several aspects of the new CBA that should help make up for any downsides of the new deal. Teams finishing near the bottom of the standings will be able to spend significant sums on their first-round pick. The reduced number of supplemental first-round picks will ensure their second-round pick is a higher pick than it is under the old system. And then there is the competitive balance pick lottery that will give unsuccessful and small-market teams a chance at 12 extra picks (six after the first round and six after the second round).
The news is not nearly as good for successful large-market clubs. Under old rules, a team could spend throughout the draft, landing multiple top talents who fell because of signing demands. Large-market teams were also able to work the compensatory pick system to land numerous supplemental first-round picks by offering arbitration to free agents (something teams with smaller budgets were less likely to do). Because of that, several large-market teams have managed to rank among the draft’s biggest spenders despite picking at the end of the draft.
Under the new system, successful teams will have a significantly smaller draft allowance than teams picking at the top of the first round. And the reworking of compensatory picks will reduce the number of supplemental picks. Add in restrictions on the amount teams can spend on international talent and teams like the Red Sox and Yankees will be severely limited in how much they can spend.
MFin04 LF and RF are the two biggest question marks and one of them could easily be solved by finding a long-term option at at least one of those spots. I don’t think Prado is the long-term plan in LF
what i mean is, at best the NEED for a starting player is a grey area. not a clear need. we have prado for LF, and he is a very good hitter. we have heyward for RF, and he is an all star and almost won rookie of the year. maybe we need a starter for a corner OF spot. but thats still a maybe, in my opinion. to say there is a clear need, to me means its obvious and there is some kind of consensus, which there certainly is not.
If Heyward tanks, then we will be experiencing a whole new set of problems in the years to come.
I’m kinda counting on the kid………….
December 20th, 20112:47 pm
Alaska in the middle of baseball season may not be too bad.
smits in ny
if my memory is correct the white sox tenedered Carlos Quentin a $12mil contract earlier this winter, after it was reported they were trying to deal him late last season.
Is there a possibilty, the braves go after RH’d Quentin again? It’s my thinking that the braves should add a powerful piece rather than two semi/skeptical pieces, i.e. a shortstop and a outfielder. then what about giving the aging Jermaine Dye a chance in ST. and.. here’s my disqualifier(but serious). Lets bring Schafer back. After his arrest in Fla for illegal trees, what is his status.?
Voice of Reason
December 20th, 20112:48 pm
My thoughts have always been that Michael Cuddyer would be a good fit for the Braves, but i see that the Rockies just signed him to a contract. Maybe that will free up the Rockies to making a better deal with the Braves. But that right handed bat of Cuddyer’s would have looked good in our lineup.
Legendary Columnist Bill Conlin Resigns Over Forthcoming Philly Inquirer Bombshell http://deadspin.com/5869737/
December 20th, 20112:49 pm
DAP – I understand your point…I’m just saying that the payroll is based largely on revenue, not literal market size. I think we are both agreeing.
Someone call Planters. Plenty of “nuts” on here for the upcoming holidays.
December 20th, 20112:50 pm
Quentin, Dye and Schafer………………
Hmmmmm. Not 3 names I’d expect in a single paragraph.
December 20th, 20112:52 pm
As usual, Great list DOB. What about Dawes or Cut Copy? Those were two that I had on my list that I did not see on yours. May have overlooked them though…
McCann is done!!! It’s obvious that he has a forged birth certificate.. no way hes a day under 34!!!! Face it he’s done!!!
Ben_Duronio Ben Duronio
@ @alskor I’d put my life’s savings on Jurrjens being traded before ST.
They better get a Top 100 prospect for the guy. I mean, at least one…..
Man, what’s with all these sex scandals coming out lately? Good thing I don’t have any kids…if I did I would never feel comfortable letting them leave my site. Sick world with countless dirty old men we live in.
Braves Fan in N.Y.
December 20th, 20112:54 pm
I like Prado as well but many of you are overvaluing him. His biggest asset is his versatility, and that is important, but certainly doesn’t mean he should be untouchable. He didn’t look real comfortable to me in LF last year. I wouldn’t do Prado for Seth Smith even up–mainly because Smith hits lefty, but Smith and Wheeler? I think you have to consider it. And if Wren could talk the O’s into Prado and JJ for Hardy and Jones? Where do I sign?
December 20th, 20112:55 pm
Ben_Duronio Ben Duronio
@ @alskor I’d put my life’s savings on Jurrjens being traded before ST.
Well, it really depends on how much is in his life’s savings now, doesn’t it, to determine how firmly he believes that?
December 20th, 20112:57 pm
They should start castrating some of these piece of crap perverts and we might just see fewer of these horror stories.
60 lb head
December 20th, 20112:58 pm
Ugla to lf
Prado back to 2b
Cody Ross to back up of
Trade for back up ss/utility infielder
Low cost better team
BravesFan in DC
Radiohead’s new album would not make my cut… Doesn’t stick with me.
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