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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,933 comments Add your comment
nolie
December 21st, 2011
11:46 pm
I would be embarrassed to admit that straight out O’Hawke………
ncgary
December 21st, 2011
11:47 pm
did the marlins buy anyone today
VaBravesFan
December 21st, 2011
11:48 pm
I’d like to see Wren sign Ryan Theriot plus 1 of A.Jones/C.Ross/J.Drew/W.Betemit
Tom O'Hawke
December 21st, 2011
11:48 pm
I would be embarrassed to admit that straight out O’Hawke………
Great point, nolie! You always have all the right answers.
Venice Jim
December 21st, 2011
11:48 pm
I don’t believe I have ever stated an opinion on Beltran, so why start now…
P'cola Brave
December 21st, 2011
11:48 pm
I don’t see the Indians being big player for Beltran. I fully expect him to go to a contender. It seems thats where hes at at this point in his career. Blue Jays are interesting, especially because they have non stop flights from Toronto to Puerto Rico. Boston I understand. I don’t see the Giants involved. Hes probably the Cardinals to lose.
Venice Jim
December 21st, 2011
11:49 pm
?
JoeBrave
December 21st, 2011
11:49 pm
There won’t be any Beltran, no Swisher, and Lillibridge? are you by god kidding, why in the heck would Wren trade for a damn scrub he dumped in the first place, good grief! bleat bleat bleat!!!!!!! Jurrjens is not worth Adam Jones, reality sinking in? Jurrjens is DAMAGED GOODS , can’t make 25 starts in a season, Prado is a 2b playing LF, geez louise. I am sure other GM’s are just beating the hell outta Wrens door for the Braves TRASH, and offering all-stars for them! if you guys think this lame AZZ team is going anywhere this next season, well smart money says no.
DS1
December 21st, 2011
11:50 pm
C’mon Jim, take a walk on the wild side!
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
December 21st, 2011
11:51 pm
VaBravesFan, soooo … you’re pretty much in for anything then?
JoeBrave
December 21st, 2011
11:52 pm
I’ll give reasons, Diaz, Jones,Jurrjens, Hudson,Hanson, Beachy,Heyward,SS, whoever it may be, most likely dependable starter will be Mike freakin Minor!
Tom O'Hawke
December 21st, 2011
11:53 pm
I don’t believe I have ever stated an opinion on Beltran, so why start now… — Venice Jim
Yes, you did! You were pushing for Wren to sign him to a long-term contract, if I recall correctly.
DS1
December 21st, 2011
11:54 pm
Well thanks for clearing all that up for us, Joe.
I’m kinda surprised you aren’t running the show in Atlanta, you’re so damned intuitive on these baseball things…………..
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
December 21st, 2011
11:55 pm
JoeBrave, I’ll go eat a bag of rat poison now. Thanks to all your positivity.
Venice Jim
December 21st, 2011
11:55 pm
Tom – if by long term you mean 15 years, well, maybe, but only that night when I was doing heroin and cocaine and sniffing glue…
Tom O'Hawke
December 21st, 2011
11:57 pm
That was the night!
Brava
December 21st, 2011
11:58 pm
Damn, JoeBrave, way to drop a huge stinky turd on the blog.
JoeBrave
December 21st, 2011
11:59 pm
That is your Braves, Wren has painted himself into this corner, by extending old geezers like Jones, Hudson, and depending on the likes of oft injured scrubs like Jurrjens, and Hanson.
For the love of pete, i hope Jones does not make it through the season, if he vests, omg what a nightmare!
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:00 am
drop a huge stinky turd on the blog….Brava
Joe’s specialty
ncgary
December 22nd, 2011
12:00 am
liberty media is one of the richest company’s on the planet and could easily lose 100 million annually on the braves and not blink an eye. but that isn’t how one gets to be one of the richest company’s on the planet
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:01 am
yeah we should hope out second best hitter goes down for the year……. sigh
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:01 am
The only pitcher whose injuries really have me questioning is Hanson. Hudson is a little nerve racking with it being in the back. Jurrjens I’m not worried about. I’m sure he will miss some time at some point though. I think Beachy has a chance to really break out this year. Minor is a solid 5th starter if it doesn’t end up being Medlen who is another solid SP.
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:01 am
I agree with Tom and nolie that the Braves aren’t likely to sign Beltran, but until he signs with another team, I’ll hold out hope that Frank is going to give us a very special Christmas present.
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:02 am
Joe
You shouldn’t blog after you go on a binge…………. It makes you look pretty stupid.
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:02 am
I’m worried about JJ, but I have been for years. know too many folks in Detroit I guess
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:02 am
Joe is hot and cold. Somedays hes calm, others hes fired up like tonight.
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:03 am
Brava
Exactly. If it happens, great. If not, then bring on Cody Ross.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
December 22nd, 2011
12:03 am
JoeBrave, now here we are all positive and Christmasy and you just depress all us. Shame on you. Shame on you!
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:04 am
Sorry folks, just calling it like I see it. JJ 20&23 starts respectively the past two years averaging 134ip per season, Hanson, injured, and possibly going to get worse, Beachy?141 ip, Minor??really? and folks wonder why this team collapsed! when a 36 year old is your staff ace…….. nuff said
Tom O'Hawke
December 22nd, 2011
12:05 am
Venice Jim
Ward, JoeBrave, Jeff321, Dentz, George and a gang of the more reasonable posters here, tried to convince you that you were wrong. But you were adamant.
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:05 am
Dang, Mitch Williams wants to take EOF from us and move him to the Rangers on Hot Stove.
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:07 am
Yep, I’d be happy with Cody Ross as long as we get to keep Martin and JJ.
Venice Jim
December 22nd, 2011
12:08 am
I’ll hold out hope that Frank is going to give us a very special Christmas present
I am so strange, but my idea of a present is not someone who has played an average of 95.7 games over the past 3 years…
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:08 am
mitch is one of the more stupid guys on TV IMO. he could even be Mitchell…
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:09 am
No binge here! stupid? really Wayne, let’s see oh yes pay Beltran 10 to 12 mill to play less games than Grandpa Jones, yeah buddy that makes sense, Andruw Jones? all 77 games of him, post roids? nope I’ll pass, Huddy off of back surgery, JJ on bad wheels, Grandpa Jones on bad wheels, Hanson with a bad shoulder, Beachy can’t go past 5,this team has 2 players and a bullpen that’s all.
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:09 am
so you really think that averaging those three years is meaningful?????
Blog Monitor
December 22nd, 2011
12:10 am
Joebrave should take the word brave out of his moniker, he is no braves fan..
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:10 am
VJ
Rumor has it that cab is going to get you one of those Santa Claus ties for Christmas!
I’m personally hoping for a subscription to the Jelly of the Month club. A gift that keeps on giving………….
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:10 am
Jeez, y’all act like people never heal up.
tiger297
December 22nd, 2011
12:11 am
who is joebrave…guess he must be one of those my computer autoscroll’s
ncgary
December 22nd, 2011
12:12 am
he played what 147 last year?
id guess 150 plus this year and about the same next year
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:12 am
Whats wrong with a 36 year old ace? Halladay will be 35 next year and everyone is ready to crown Philly again but in one year they will be terrible because their ace will be 36. Thats ridiculous. JJ and Hanson have their question marks sure. Beachy was the 5th starter in the rotation and was skipped early in the season due to the lack of need for a fifth starter which is why he had only 141 innings. Not saying he would of got 200 innings but it would of been higher.
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:13 am
Nov 8th, Frank Wren states Pastornicky isn’t ready, and suddenly without taking another swing he is comfortable with a kid at ss on a supposed playoff team! bullsh**t.
if that is the way he is going, and right now it certainly looks like it. team is doomed!
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:13 am
gee wouldn’t auto-scroll be nice
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:13 am
Joe
Who shyt in your mess kit?
Every team in baseball has question marks. And if I were to believe you, I’d think that everything that could go wrong WILL go wrong. And that just ain’t happening.
So, have a nice night Joe. You’ve earned the scroll button tonight.
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:13 am
Scott Miller @ScottMCBSSports 3m
Beltran talks hot. Sources: Cardinals, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Rays and Indians all seriously in mix. May be another club involved as well.
ncgary
December 22nd, 2011
12:13 am
go braves
nite all
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:14 am
nite gary
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:15 am
Even Baltimore turned ol Frankie down on mister DL Jurrjens, that should speak volumes.
Tom O'Hawke
December 22nd, 2011
12:15 am
who is joebrave… — tiger
I believe, DOB, coined it best a week or two ago: caricature
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:15 am
night gary
tiger297
December 22nd, 2011
12:16 am
I’m telling you it is something in my computer…I hear lew bitching at some guy named shaun all the time a couple of months ago as well but I havent seen a post from him in almost a year I guess
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:16 am
Beachy had only started 22 GMS before heading to Atlanta so is it really that suprising that he struggled once in the sixth inning. The guy was a rookie with 24 starts to his name before 2011. Give me a break.
tiger297
December 22nd, 2011
12:16 am
nite gary
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:17 am
later gary
So, does this mean we all stay up waiting on the Beltran announcement?
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:18 am
what is wrong with a 36 year old being the staff ace? It doesn’t automatically condemn your team
Depends on who the 36 year old. I would take a 36 year old Greg Maddux to be the staff ace. A 36 year old Nolan Ryan? I would give him an 8 year contract (and a pay per view match versus a young Robin Ventura!). An ace is an ace regardless of age.
Yes I named 2 of the best pitchers of all time, but people throw around the term ace too lightly. True aces are not common in the majors and there probably are not much more than 10 at any given time. Am I comfortable with Hudson being our #1 pitcher? Do I have a choice? Hudson has always been a borderline #1 versus great #2 starter, but not really a true ace. That was what was so special about Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz (as well as Avery before his injury). THey were aces.
That is also what is so special about Teheran, Delgado, and Vizcaino. All 3 have much development to do but all three are young and years away from their prime. All 3 have the potential to be aces of a pitching staff with Delgado possibly a high #2 starter. How many minor leaguers have true ace potential? Not many
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:18 am
it would tell me that Baltimore seriously overrates Jones if it had actually happened. which I find pretty hard to believe
Venice Jim
December 22nd, 2011
12:18 am
so you really think that averaging those three years is meaningful?????
I take it by the ridiculous number of question marks that you do not, which is the first time on the blog I have ever questioned you ability to understand a very simple numerical concept. What kind of person who understands numbers would not be swayed by the fact that in two of the past three years he has played in less than 51% of the available games. To put a huge amount of money into those numbers strikes me as something only someone with money to burn would be willing to do. Sorry if my mathematical acumen leads me in a different direction…
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:18 am
Pizzed at Wren at the moment, there are nice players here, Freeman, McCann, and the pen, outside of that 6 question marks, Uggla…36 bombs and what??? Heyward??? Bourn will he be anything more than fast? LF =blackhole at the moment, Prado will spend more time at 3rd, SS, what a joke musical chairs,and a broken down pitching staff! there ya go..yeah buddy a lot to be excited about.,
Venice Jim
December 22nd, 2011
12:19 am
Goods night – time to drag my ill body off to bed!
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:20 am
thank you P’Cola – I agree.
Beachy needs better command but his ability to make hitters miss as well as his big game make up mentally makes him a key pitcher for the Braves future. All the haters on Beachy and Teheran do not realize how young and how inexperienced they are. They are already very good but they have plenty of development to go to reach their peak and hopefully their potential. The guys are young. give them a break
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:20 am
P’cola
And Beachy was down with some sort of a muscle strain for about 3-4 weeks around May, I believe.
If you go back and check his game logs, the kid shoulda won a LOT more games than he did. The pen gave up a boat load of leads he left them with.
tiger
I aspire to have your patience with folk.
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:21 am
And with all those damn question marks we managed to win 89 gms. I guess they will continue to spiral downward and we will completely suck. Give me a break.
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:21 am
Do I have a choice? Hudson has always been a borderline #1 versus great #2 starter, but not really a true ace
sure which is why he has such a fantastic winning %, he’s just been lucky for a dozen years
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:22 am
nolie I would say that Jurrjens is the one seriously overrated.
Tom O'Hawke
December 22nd, 2011
12:22 am
Nite, VJ, get well.
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:22 am
the Braves have a strong team but again it is a strong team on paper. The approach with hitting was awful last year and the bullpen was burned out with a month left. Along with the players playing to their ability, we must have better coaching/managing this year if we are to go anywhere. Hopefully just an off year for Fredi like it was for Heyward and they will both bounce back this year. Fredi needs to not worry about being Bobby Cox and just be Fredi G. – let the chips lie where they may
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:22 am
later Jim…….
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:23 am
P’cols, yes downward it will go…. count on it!
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:23 am
If I remember correctly Beachy set a rookie strikeout record and did it in 141 innings. The guy is a bulldog. Even Chipper said it himself. He needs to increase his stamina but he could really make a jump next year. If he got some run support last year he very well could of been in the ROY conversation along w/ the other two.
jeffrey d
December 22nd, 2011
12:23 am
but my idea of a present is not someone who has played an average of 95.7 games over the past 3 years
One of Bobby’s relievers?
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:24 am
the kind of person who has spent 55 years watching players be hurt and come back. This is not math it is human physical ability. averaging three years is about as meaningless as anything you could do.
jeffrey d
December 22nd, 2011
12:24 am
Wait, VJ’s sick? Why didn’t he tell us by using parenthesis next to his name??
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:26 am
nolie was that during the greenie era, roid era, or post roid, most post roid guys well…..Suck now!
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:26 am
Beachy needs better command but his ability to make hitters miss as well as his big game make up mentally makes him a key pitcher for the Braves future….brian
I’m sorry but I’m not seeing that yet. much of his success is based on deception IMO. too early to feel secure about what you said though it would certainly be nice
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:27 am
nolie – I think Hudson is fantastic and I am a fan, but I just don’t see him as the ace, the stud who will end any losing streak. Maybe I have been spoiled by all these years of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz while growing up pitchers like Nolan Ryan, a young Dwight Gooden, etc.
I just have always viewed ace of the staff/#1 pitcher as something different than a true ace.
Smoltz versus Jack Morris Game 7 – battle of 2 aces.
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:27 am
I have a gut feeling, and I hoe I am wrong, but I don’t believe you guys will like the next trade Wren makes…not at all.
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:27 am
Scott Miller @ScottMCBSSports 7m
Suggested in blog earlier that Beltran makes sense for Braves. But told that Atlanta is passing on him. For now, no Braves.
Oh well.
tiger297
December 22nd, 2011
12:28 am
ds1 – thanks although I’m not sure its patience I just ignore those who in my opinion are idiots. Life is too short and I barely have time for the fun things I want to do.
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:28 am
JoeBrave
You wear me out sometimes man. This team could very well be a 90 win team. In a terrible offensive year that was filled with several guys who posted career lows they won 89 games. Pastornicky may or may not succeed but should be servicable. He can’t be no worse than what we had last year. He may not be as good defensively and I’m sure he will make the Rookie SS mistakes. And don’t give me the other teams are making moves and were not bullcrap so we are a 4th place team.
tiger297
December 22nd, 2011
12:31 am
p’cola – in my memory I don’t think it was beachy’s stamina as much as his ability to finish hitters early (similar to hanson). Way too many 0-2 & 1-2 counts ended up 3-2.
Wonder if someone has stats on that LOL
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:31 am
Beachy does use deception but he also has a solid fastball that can reach the mid 90s. as far as big game, nothing speaks bigger than when he came up to face the Phillies in 2010 with the season on the line. Beachy was huge in those games. Maybe he was too inexperienced to be psyched out.
I wish Maddux had been hired by the Braves as a roving instructor in spring training and hope they will find an expanded role for Glavine and Maddux. Beachy, Hanson, Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado, etc., all need to get perfect command of their fastball so they can work off their fastball, spotting it when needed. Get ahead in the count and then put them away. Maddux was so, so good at working off his fastball, getting ahead in the count, and completely taking apart the hitter while putting the hitter away
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:31 am
nah Brava, i can’t see them paying 12 or so mil per year for two or three years. and although I disagree with all the posters who seem to totally assume that he will be hurt all the time, I agree that there is risk with signing him
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:32 am
very funny jeffrey
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:33 am
Brian
The biggest question for the Braves may be the coaching. I’m glad they replaced the hitting coach. Of course it wasn’t all Parrish fault, they still swing the bat, but for them to go from the top OBP team to one of the worst is questionable, especially with a coaching change in that spot. To me Fredi seemed to try so hard to be Bobby Cox that he wasn’t himself, all the way to the post game interviews. He mismanaged several games, handled the bullpen wrong. I’m hoping this year he just decides to do it his way and not live in the shadow.
DS1
December 22nd, 2011
12:33 am
It’s obvious to most that Beltran would be an injury risk, just due to his recent history. It is also entirely possible, that he could finish his career without missing any appreciable time.
Giving a guy like Beltran a 2 or 3 year contract is inherently risky. But if he is healthy, it could be equally rewarding for the team signing him. Sometimes you have to take a chance to realize a big reward.
A lot depend on your financial flexibility and how easy it would be to handle a risk like this.
Personally, I think he is worth the risk due to the potential of the reward.
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:34 am
P’cola, I could care less what the other teams are doing, this team needs and strong bat, and a regular veteran SS, or this team isn’t going anywhere but home again, another Starter would be nice too, now tell me all about how Teheran, Delgado, Viz aren’t ready but Patornicky is? c’mon talk about wearing it out.
Braves don’t need an overhaul, but they do need 3 pieces, a strong bat in LF, Vet SS, and a starter that can go to the post every 5th day every time.
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
has a solid fastball that can reach the mid 90s. …brian
yeah but it seems to straighten out some as it gets faster, at least the few times I’ve seen him pitch
Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not predicting that he will be a poor pitcher, I just think its too early to predict what he will be,
Tom O'Hawke
December 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
Wait, VJ’s sick? Why didn’t he tell us by using parenthesis next to his name?? — jeffrey d
He wanted to, and he tried. Unfortunately, he’s suffering from a rare form of Brackett Laryngitis Typus. The symptoms are an inability to type parenthesis.
JoeBrave
December 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
anyways nite all, tired of venting on Wren, and his blind grand plan.
tiger297
December 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
curious on beltran’s injury time wasn’t most of it related to one injury & rehab of surgery to fix that injury?
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:35 am
True aces playing today
AL – Verlander, C.C., King Felix, a healthy Beckett, Jered Weaver
NL – Lincecum, Kershaw, Halladay, Cliff Lee
I am getting too tired and I am sure I missed someone but those stand above the rest
Brava
December 22nd, 2011
12:36 am
I agree, nolie. Looks like the Braves aren’t interested anyway.
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:38 am
nolie – that happens to a lot of pitchers – they overthrow and their ball straightens out. At 93-94, his ball moves well. Getting to 95 it straightens out. He has plenty of velocity but needs to find control and consistency. No need to overthrow. I just think his ability to strike people out bodes well for his future if he continues to develop and develops control
brian
December 22nd, 2011
12:39 am
i just think it is a nice quality to be able to miss bats and also keep bats from getting good contact
jeffrey d
December 22nd, 2011
12:39 am
oooh, sounds rough. Get well soon, VJ
nolie
December 22nd, 2011
12:39 am
yeah Wayne it is a risk/reward deal. He might never play 100 games again, or he might be like Dawson and play till he’s 40 on bum knees. The Braves are probably not financially fluid enough to take that risk though, I am aware of that.
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:40 am
brian
Another one in the NL that I think very well could be an ace is Matt Cain. And one that used to be but has been hurt last two years is Johan. Strasburg will eventually join that list.
kenhotlanta
December 22nd, 2011
12:41 am
JoeBrave: “why in the heck would Wren trade for a damn scrub he dumped in the first place, good grief! bleat bleat bleat!!!!!!! ”
Because since Lillibridge was traded, he has turned into a solid and versatile back-up?
P'cola Brave
December 22nd, 2011
12:43 am
Wonder if Wren will show interest in Quentin now that other trade partners seem to have fallen through.