Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
6,933 comments Add your comment
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
December 21st, 2011
3:18 pm
NADA my friend. But it does feel like a different planet in our neck of the woods. No snow as of today, which is surreal. People don’t know how to react but it is nice not having to deal with shoveling, slick roads and poor traveling conditions.
Tomahawkin (Bring Back Loaf)
December 21st, 2011
3:19 pm
O.J.
[Mark Bowman reports that it was the Orioles that called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones.]
“Sure Frank hung up on that!”
Good! I hope he Laughed while hanging up…What An Armchair GM proposal the Orioles GM gave to Frank…Frank would’ve had to have been on that Stuff to even consider it…?
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:19 pm
This Next Hour needs to Go Buy without 97.1 Playing any Journey…
I really don’t see 3 o’clock purchasing a radio station
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:22 pm
for your listening pleasure……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGbVoDVWZsc
TommyP
December 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
C’mon, jeffrey d. 3 o’clock would welcome that station with Open Arms.
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
This one goes out to Tomahawkin
When the lights go down in the city,
and the sun shines on the bay,
oh I want to get back to my city by the bay
ooooh, oh, oohoohoh
Bat Masterson
December 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
Mark Bowman reports that it was the Orioles that called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones. _ O.J.
Must have been after a lot of booze at the office Christmas Party.
McFann O O o
December 21st, 2011
3:25 pm
DS1—
Oh, I’m not in a hurry at all!
My Mom didn’t get married till she was almost 28—I figger I’ll be around that age, too, if not older… 
5′-18″…hahaha! That’s a good one!…In that case, I’m about 4′-21″…
cabravesfan I didn’t mean soon!
Good to know…
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:25 pm
My guess is the Braves probably offered one of the two plus a prospect for Jones, and Baltimore was shooting the moon.
I really don’t see the O’s dealing him away.
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:25 pm
Ah, Wayne beat me to it
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:25 pm
http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/2011/12/21/braves-did-not-offer-jones-and-prado-to-the-orioles/
The source said the Braves were told Jones was unavailable when they asked about him a couple weeks ago. The Orioles later called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones.
The Braves said they were not interested and the two clubs have not had any recent discussions about these players.
That makes more sense. It’s like when Heyman reports that the Mets won’t trade Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Davis, Familia, Mejia for Gio Gonzalez. Why print something like that? It’s so bogus, people will start to critique you instead of the team/source.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:27 pm
danconnollysun Dan Connolly
@ @TheWeams Don’t know identty/qualty of prospect in Jones’ offer by #Braves. Heard Josh Bell in convo then removed. Remember, it was 2wks ago
Yeah, Josh Bell and Manny Machado. Horse-bleep, as scoots would say.
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:28 pm
C’mon, jeffrey d. 3 o’clock would welcome that station with Open Arms.
And changes the name to 97.1 The No Tomahawkins. And play only Journey, the Black Eyed Peas, and Mariah Carey, but all of her songs have a whoopie cushion track played alongside
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:28 pm
McFann
He’s a little self conscious about his height. Wow, 5′9″ is pretty tall for a young lady. Ya know the Hollies wrote a song about a 5′9″ beautiful lady.
By the time I was 28, I had been married 6+ years already………. That seems like an eternity ago now!
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:29 pm
And those Mets prospects/players were ALL out of the discussion for Gio – which is absurd.
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:30 pm
I dated a girl that was 5′9″ (I’m 5′11″). When she wore heals, that was dangerously close….
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:32 pm
He believes they’re “more than OK” with current bullpen. Adding a veteran arm isn’t a priority.
I agree. If they are going Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Vizcaino as the first four options out of the pen, then they are pretty set. Add to it Medlen if Jurrjens stays put or Teheran/Delgado win the 5th spot, and they have one of the deepest pens in the league regardless of who is in the 6/7 spots.
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:32 pm
I don’t doubt that someone from Balitmore told the Sun reporter that the Braves made that offer. I simply doubt that the Braves made that offer (and based on Bowman’s blog, it appears that the source on the Braves side confirmed that).
VaBravesFan
December 21st, 2011
3:34 pm
I’m 5′9 and my girl is around 5′4
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:36 pm
jeffrey
I’m 6′1″ and Ms DS1 is 5′11″ Our 2 adopted boys are 6′1″ and you can understand why the youngest is so tall.
And Ms DS1 used to love to wear heels!
Good listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK90ySBSmQs&feature=related
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:38 pm
I’d bet Wren would consider Jurrjens plus a pitching prospect for Jones. Although I don’t believe that prospect would be of the Delgado variety.
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:38 pm
DOB
Where do you gauge the Braves interest in Ross?
David O'Brien
December 21st, 2011
3:38 pm
I simply doubt that the Braves made that offer (and based on Bowman’s blog, it appears that the source on the Braves side confirmed that). — RC
Actually, his blog credits a “source with knowledge of the Orioles negotiations,” not someone on Braves side. Keep in mind, MLB.com has a different beat reporter covering every team, which works out well for them in situations like this where they can share info and get stuff from one or both sides. Especially given the Braves’ silence on so many matters such as this.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:38 pm
so we offered JJ, Prado and a prospect for Adam Jones? Really? FCS.
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:38 pm
Since there is nothing else to discuss, can I complain about the fact the Braves have Vizcaino “penciled in” to the bullpen?
Come’on guys! He’s SOOO much more valuable if you can develop him as a starter. And while you might say we’ve got plenty of starting prospects, we also have a pretty good back of the bullpen. Not a whole lot of value in a #5 bullpen guy (Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Medlen). If that’s all they need Viz for, trade him. You’d get a much better player back than a #5 bullpen guy.
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:38 pm
I was hoping it was another Journey song
McFann O O o
December 21st, 2011
3:39 pm
5′-9″? Oops…I meant 5′-7″…not sure where those extra inches came from—sorry about that…Christmas Break Brain moment…
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:39 pm
Efrim
Agreed. While Jones is not a bad ballplayer, he is flawed on two fronts: defensively and OBP.
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:40 pm
DOB,
Good point on not knowing Bowman’s source. That actually makes a lot of sense.
VaBravesFan
December 21st, 2011
3:41 pm
DOB
Is Wren still interested in maybe getting a contract extension done with Michael Bourn this offseason? I see a zero chance of him coming back if we let him g o to free agency after the season.
Steve from OH
December 21st, 2011
3:41 pm
Well, Jones isn’t flawed defensively if he’s in LF. But his bat plays down that much more.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:42 pm
Come’on guys! He’s SOOO much more valuable if you can develop him as a starter…RC
he can be developed as a starter any time. They listed 8 guys ahead of him, we have absolutely no use for another starter this season
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:42 pm
nolie,
Depends on who you ask. The Balitmore Sun reporter’s source says that the Braves made that offer. Mark Bowman’s source says that those players were discussed, but that offer was never made (a different offer was made by Balitmore). DOB has asked the Braves, and so far nobody within the org is even addressing it.
DAP
December 21st, 2011
3:43 pm
nolie so we offered JJ, Prado and a prospect for Adam Jones? Really?M
nope, they asked.
Tomahawkin (Bring Back Loaf)
December 21st, 2011
3:44 pm
Gawd They Are Playing Journey on 97.1 right now…
Might be about time to turn it off…
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:44 pm
plus he will likely do at least a bit of a Surhoff and have his slugging go down some in Atlanta. While Camden is not a high scoring park it is something of a homer park IIRC
Tomahawkin (Bring Back Loaf)
December 21st, 2011
3:45 pm
jeffrey d
December 21st, 2011
3:24 pm
This one goes out to Tomahawkin
[When the lights go down in the city,
and the sun shines on the bay,
oh I want to get back to my city by the bay
ooooh, oh, oohoohoh]
That one is not that bad…That one is kinda mellow…
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:45 pm
nolie,
Completely agree we have no use for another starter this season. My idea is to let him develop more in AAA, since he had all of 24 and a third innings pitched above the AA level.
It’s way easier to find another bullpen arm that it is to find a prospect like him. His value as a trade chip would be huge if teams were convinced he could be a starting pitcher.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:45 pm
ok DAP, but that is not what that article on AJC Braves home says is it?
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:46 pm
When the lights go down in the city…………
CB
December 21st, 2011
3:46 pm
I am going to believe Bowman because I don’t want to believe our GM is that stupid. LOL
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:46 pm
ok DAP, but that is not what that article on AJC Braves home says is it?
No, but this article does:
http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/
VaBravesFan
December 21st, 2011
3:47 pm
The wheel in the sky keeps on turning….
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:47 pm
Come’on guys! He’s SOOO much more valuable if you can develop him as a starter. And while you might say we’ve got plenty of starting prospects, we also have a pretty good back of the bullpen. Not a whole lot of value in a #5 bullpen guy (Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Medlen). If that’s all they need Viz for, trade him. You’d get a much better player back than a #5 bullpen guy.
I feel better about the Viz stuff. I think they can turn him into a starter and I do see value in sticking him in there as a pen arm for 2012. I just reeeeeaaaalllllly hope his long term role is as a starter. Too much wasted value as a reliever. I’m sorry, 60 innings – 180-200 innings. Just not close in terms of value. Damn right I’d take Brandon Beachy over Craig Kimbrel, long term.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:48 pm
I don’t want to trade Viz, so if it means keeping him long term, to the pen he goes for 2012.
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:49 pm
RC
Sometimes we get too worried about increasing a guys trade value, when we should be more concerned with how we can use the player to win now. That might be the case with Vizcaino.
He can be stretched out later if he has the pitches necessary to be a top notch starter.
But for now, we need him to get us an inning at a time.
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:49 pm
I am going to believe Bowman because I don’t want to believe our GM is that stupid. LOL
I believe both reporters are reporting what they were told. The question comes with who’s source is more reliable, and we really have no way of knowing that. Based on the details given in each report, Bowman’s article certainly strikes me as much more believable, but that doesn’t mean that it’s the “true” story, or that either is the true story.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:49 pm
I am going to believe Bowman because I don’t want to believe our GM is that stupid. LOL
That’s pretty much the way I’m viewing it. For sleep purposes.
VaBravesFan
December 21st, 2011
3:50 pm
MLBTR Chat
3:49
Comment From Ryan
Michael Bourn Contract 5 years 55 million?
3:49
Ben Nicholson-Smith: I think it’d cost more than that, but not by a whole lot.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:50 pm
Unless he really shines in ST I can see AAA for awhile, but I’d still target him for the pen this season as soon as he looked stable. In another year or two we will have several college relievers who they drafted become available perhaps and some current starters start to leave and you can stretch him out again then like Texas is doing with Feliz
and speaking of Feliz….Feliz Navidad y’all…..
richbrave
December 21st, 2011
3:52 pm
Now it’s a whole team and staffing the minors in BIRD-LAND for JONES? As in BASTOGNE 67 years ago, the response…..Nougets!
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:52 pm
Steve from OH, since I know you and I talk a ton about prospects. Remember Cole Rohrbough? Well, a friend of mine is working with him up in Massachusetts at a rehab/strengthening clinic and he told me Cole is progressing very well and to watch out for him this year. He had ankle trouble that effected his mechanics and lead to arm trouble. Anyway, thought it was cool that he was working with him and also said Cole is a great guy. I’m rooting for him as him Hanson and Locke will always be personal favorites of mine.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:53 pm
Same to you, noles.
Also, regarding Cody Martin and J.R. Graham – two relievers we drafted – looks like they may try to turn both into starters. However I know they like Navery Moore as a relief pitcher and he has big arm strength.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:53 pm
Thanx for the other link RC.
I agree, I’m gonna lean toward that slant cause I really don’t think Frank is that dumb, at least I too certainly hope not
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:54 pm
Bourn will have to hit a lot better than he did when he arrived to be worth 11+ million per year for 5 years.
I’m just not seeing it. We don’t have enough payroll room for a speedy CF with a lower OBP for 11 million per………….
RC
December 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
I think Efrim’s post hinted at my reason for NOT wanting Viz in the pen….60 innings is nowhere near as valuable as 180-200 innings. Now I fully realize that we aren’t getting anywhere close to 180 innings out of Viz this year, but to me the question isn’t “how good will he be for 60 innings?” it’s “how much better than whoever he replaces will he be for 60 innings?” And the answer is very likely to be not enough to be worth even a win. That’s simply too few innings to have a huge impact, especially since the guys who would be in the pen in his place are pretty good themselves. Considering the fact that if he succeeds there they will be very unlikely to move him back to starter, and that he won’t be able to work on his pitches as much if he’s being asked to perform at the major league level, I don’t think the upside of Viz in the pen is worth the potential cost of the development time he’ll lose.
One thing I’ll say in favor of it: If Fredi trusts him, then it might be the right decision to make. Because Fredi showed last year that if he DOESN’T trust a pitcher, he’s simply going to continue burning out the ones he does, no matter how many pitches their arms have thrown over the course of the season. So if that’s the issue then I understand where Wren is coming from, although I’d rather he get his manager in check than waste a promising starting prospect to mitigate the manager’s decision making.
MR
December 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
That’s a pretty good list, I would exchange a few for a few….did you hear…..
Primus / Green Naugahyde
Long Distance Calling / Long Distance Calling
Nemo / Revolu$ion
Amplifier / The Octopus
Neal Morse / Testimony 2
Explosions in the Sky / Take Care, Take Care, Take Care
Russian Circles / Empros
Steven Wilson / Grace For Drowning
Michael Monroe / Sensory Overdrive
The Kooks / Junk Of The Heart
The Pains of Being Pure at Heart / Belong
Bright Eyes / The People’s Key
Dennis Coffey /Dennis Coffey
Ron Sexsmith / Long Player Late Bloomer
The Rural Alberta Advantage / Departing
The Low Anthem / Smart Flesh
We Were Promised Jetpacks / In The Pit Of The Stomach
The Feelies / Here Before
David Bazan / Strange Negotiations
Midnite Radio Friday nights at 11pm on 89.1 WBCX
http://www.brenau.edu/wbcx
facebook = Midnite Radio
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
Rohrbough was a big prospect back in the day. We’ll hope for the best for him.
Hillbilly
December 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
I’m not so sure Jurrjens and Prado are the direction Baltimore should be going, anyway. You’re looking at 2 seasons before free agency for both of those guys and the O’s are not built to win in that time period. Nothing about this rumor makes any sense from any direction unless the prospect(s) involved were some of our top arms.
RemoW
December 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
Any word on how Tommy Hanson and his shoulder are doing? I know Wren had some concerns and the last I remember was that after the season he TRIED to throw in a post season league and they had to shut him down?
nolie
December 21st, 2011
3:59 pm
Thanx Efrim, I had not heard that about Martin and Graham, though I am skeptical how well that will work.
In general guys are made into relievers for a reason, and again in general the earlier in their career they are assigned to that slot, the more obvious that reason(s) is/are.
Now perhaps that is not quite as true now as it was a decade ago and more, but I am still skeptical about college relievers becoming quality MLB starters.
Not saying its impossible, but fairly unlikely IMO. That will be interesting to watch
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
3:59 pm
Bourn will have to hit a lot better than he did when he arrived to be worth 11+ million per year for 5 years.
If he has an OPS+ of over 100 in 2012, he’s going to get that and maybe more next winter. Overall line was .294/.349/.386, 104 OPS+ this year between Houston/Atlanta. While there are two other CF options next year that are pretty good(Shane Victorino and B.J. Upton), Bourn is still going to get lots of offers for his skillset. I think he grabs a five year deal worth 10-13 million per year.
Wren better offer him that 12.4 million dollar qualifying offer.
DS1
December 21st, 2011
3:59 pm
RC
Good points. We’ll see where the chips fall.
Lunch time folks………..
nolie
December 21st, 2011
4:03 pm
although I’d rather he get his manager in check than waste a promising starting prospect to mitigate the manager’s decision making…JC
but you are not wasting the guy, we have no need for a starter in the near future and he can as easily be stretched out then as now.
To me wasting him this year is keeping him in AAA IF he shows enough production to come up.
I would agree with you much more if we did not have 7-8 guys ahead of him
He can still be a starter later
TommyP
December 21st, 2011
4:03 pm
Let’s get a little baseball talk out there….
Nats going all out for Gio. Let’s take a look at that Nationals lineup/rotation if they do indeed consummate a deal for him.
Rotation:
Gio
Strasburg
Zimmerman
Lannan
Wang
That’s a nice rotation if good health accompanies that staff.
C: Wilson Ramos
1B: Mike Morse
2B: Espinosa
3B: Zimmerman
SS: Desmond
LF: Gomes
CF: Ankiel/Bernadina/Cameron
RF: Werth
That lineup could use another bat but that infield is young and improving. Nats could be better than they’ve been in awhile.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:03 pm
Now perhaps that is not quite as true now as it was a decade ago and more, but I am still skeptical about college relievers becoming quality MLB starters.
I agree. Graham is on the smallish size – 6′0”, 195-200 lbs. Martin is a bit bigger. Ya don’t see too many college relievers successfully transitioned, as you said, so I am a skeptic as well. But Graham, Martin, Moore, Lamm, and Chaffee are pen arms to watch out for in 2012. If they stuck em as relievers, Graham and Martin would move fast.
ChattTownBrian (CTB)
December 21st, 2011
4:04 pm
I think Wren keeps hitting road blocks.
Hillbilly
December 21st, 2011
4:06 pm
Efrim and others,
I’m hoping this whole Viz-bullpen situation is something similar to what the Rangers are doing. CJ Wilson, Alexi Ogando, and Neftali Feliz were all back-end of the bullpen guys starting off their careers. I just worry about inning progression and the Verducci Effect if you want to call it that.
Steve from OH
December 21st, 2011
4:06 pm
Efrim, I remember Rohrbough. One of my favorite prospects back in the day. Hope things turn around for him.
DAP
December 21st, 2011
4:07 pm
nolie, im choosing to ignore that and go with Bowman’s blog, because it tells me not only what i want to hear, but what sounds like it could possibly be true:
The Braves expressed interest in Adam Jones. But they did not offer Martin Prado and Jair Jurrjens to the Orioles in exchange for the outfielder.
A source with knowledge of the Orioles negotiations disputed a Baltimore Sun report that indicated the Braves were rejected when they offered Prado, Jurrjens and a pitching prospect for Jones.
The source said the Braves were told Jones was unavailable when they asked about him a couple weeks ago. The Orioles later called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones.
The Braves said they were not interested and the two clubs have not had any recent discussions about these players. <<<thats what Bowman says. Makes sense to me.
TommyP
December 21st, 2011
4:08 pm
I forgot Adam LaRoche at 1B. Shift Morse to LF and that lineup is definitely better.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
4:10 pm
Overall line was .294/.349/.386, 104 OPS+ this year between Houston/Atlanta. While there are two other CF options next year that are pretty good(Shane Victorino and B.J. Upton),…Efrim
yeah but his OPS+ in Atlanta was a career dead on 87 and he will be playing here all season.
The guy has never had an OPS+ of higher than 97 before his first half tear in Houston.
Course the better he does the better chance we have, we’ll see.
I can see offering him one year arb to get the pick, but would never pay neat that much per year for an extended contract, and I will honestly be kinda surprised if the offer him arb at all if they can’t or won’t extend him
richbrave
December 21st, 2011
4:11 pm
DS1:
Thanx for the flashback tune. Cool!
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:14 pm
I will honestly be kinda surprised if the offer him arb at all if they can’t or won’t extend him
I hope they offer him the one year offer. I don’t want them to extend him for too much more than he is making now on a four year deal. Even with the salary we have available, he isn’t worth a long term commitment for 12 a year, imo. No way in you know what.
Lew
December 21st, 2011
4:15 pm
Must not have been that recently since they asked about that package for Jones. Apparently Wren had stopped laughing when he talked to DOB.
DAP
December 21st, 2011
4:15 pm
after this season, offer bourne 4 years, $38mil, and wave goodbye.
rammerjammer
December 21st, 2011
4:15 pm
JJ and Prado are worth more to the Braves than what the Braves can get in return.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:16 pm
Hillbilly, agreed. And Viz never really stretched it out in his minor league career. Career high in innings pitched is a little over 100, I believe.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:17 pm
after this season, offer bourne 4 years, $38mil, and wave goodbye.
That’s pretty much where I’m at with him. 9.5 per year, over four years.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2011
4:17 pm
“The source said the Braves were told Jones was unavailable when they asked about him a couple weeks ago. The Orioles later called the Braves to see if they would trade Prado, Jurrjens and two other “premium guys” in exchange for Jones. The Braves said they were not interested and the two clubs have not had any recent discussions about these players.”
This game is called, “See which beat reporter can make up enough junk about the players that are the subject of trade rumors until they get pissed off and ask for a trade thus killing any leverage for the opposing GM”
Still looking for a shorter title for that game, but you get my point.
richbrave
December 21st, 2011
4:17 pm
I said last year, watch out for the SENATORS…..uh TWINS, nope SENATORS…….RANGERS? NATS, now we’re cooking with gas.
richbrave
December 21st, 2011
4:19 pm
GRAHAM came out of DANVILLE with nice numbers. LAMM and GILMARTIN held their own in LYNCHBURG and ROME respectively
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2011
4:22 pm
As soon as I read that MLBTR post about the Orioles reporter, I immediately thought he was attempting to drum up some angst from Prado/Jurrjens to potentially force Wren’s hand into giving up both guys for Jones. That’s why Wren has a policy of not addressing rumors, because they serve no purpose but to possibly alienate the players that are the subject of those rumors. It’s a good policy and a very smart way to go about business.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2011
4:24 pm
This game is called, “See which beat reporter can make up enough junk about the players that are the subject of trade rumors until they get pissed off and ask for a trade thus killing any leverage for the opposing GM”
Just for clarification, I wasn’t suggesting Bowman was doing this, just the Orioles guy. I can’t remember reading anything from Bowman that seemed like an intentional leak for negotiation purposes.
timthebrave
December 21st, 2011
4:24 pm
MR-Thanks for letting me know that Primus has a new album…..I wonder if it’s too late to add to the christmas list….hmmmmm
nolie
December 21st, 2011
4:24 pm
Belisario got busted too huh? How stupid are some of these guys?
Lemke's Knuckler
December 21st, 2011
4:29 pm
I have an idea for all of these guys that make their business solely on the rumor mills (Heyman, Bowden, Morosi, etc.). They should be allowed to go around reporting anything they want, but as soon as they’re wrong 3 times (wrong being when both teams or sides dispute the claim), they must hand over their laptop, smart phones, etc. and stay off to the side for one month before entering the rumor mill again. I’m thinking a corner somewhere with a small chair and a dunce cap.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:29 pm
So, it’s either today, tomorrow or Friday for Frank Wren. I stated that if they don’t make the move before 12/25, then they are on our team during Spring Training. But with the way the trade market moved this year, looks like things will spill over into January. There weren’t many deals involving hitters this year, at all actually. Three deals for pitchers so far – J. Sanchez, Cahill and Latos. Can’t really think of any position players of significance changing teams through trade. Been the slowest offseason I can remember, and not just for the Braves. Melky Cabrera was the lone known starting position player to move….
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:34 pm
The Cubs and Reds have agreed in principle to a trade that will send left-handed reliever Sean Marshall to Cincinnati for starter Travis Wood and two minor leaguers, according to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com. The move is pending physicals.
Matt Garza to follow shortly once Beane makes his mind up….
RC
December 21st, 2011
4:35 pm
Overall line was .294/.349/.386, 104 OPS+ this year between Houston/Atlanta. While there are two other CF options next year that are pretty good(Shane Victorino and B.J. Upton),…Efrim
One thing I’ve noticed when discussing OPS+ is that it gives a good idea of what a hitter can do, but completely discounts baserunning. If you adjust Bourn’s slugging line to give him one extra base for each stolen base, and remove a base for each caught stealing, his slugging jumps from .386 to .457, and his OPS+ goes from 104 to 114. I realize that this method isn’t perfect, since it’s more valuable to hit a double than it is to hit a single and steal 2nd, but as a rough measure I think it is useful.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:35 pm
The Royals announced that they signed Jose Mijares to a one-year, Major League contract for 2012.
Good signing by Dayton. I always like Mijares. Wasn’t good last year though.
RC
December 21st, 2011
4:37 pm
Victorino’s OPS+ using this adjusted method jumps from 120 to 125. He’s still got a good lead on Bourn, but the difference in 114 and 125 is much lower than the difference in 103 and 120.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:37 pm
RC, it doesn’t account for baserunning and it doesn’t account for the fact that OBP is more important than SLG, especially for a CF like Bourn. He has much more to offer than slugging and if he’s getting on base at a .345 clip plus stealing tons of bases and just running the bases well overall, then he has a lot more value than his OPS+ indicates……however……
……….an 87 is an 87…..
RC
December 21st, 2011
4:38 pm
Also worth pointing out that my adjusted method doesn’t take into account the average SB or CS for the entire league, which would be necessary to truly convert it to a metric like OPS+.
Efrim
December 21st, 2011
4:39 pm
Dempster, Wells, Zambrano, Wood for the Cubbies next year. Perhaps another pitcher that they get back for Garza, or Casey Coleman. Gonna be a rough 2012 for the Cubs.
RC
December 21st, 2011
4:40 pm
……….an 87 is an 87…
And yet I just showed you that with a slight adjustment his 104 bumps up to a 114. 10% improvement over league average isn’t something to merely brush aside, although I have no idea what that would be using only his numbers with the Braves….and I don’t have time today to figure it out. Workday over, off for hollidays!
It won't work I tell ya
December 21st, 2011
4:40 pm
This is all a conspiracy to take our attention off football
It won't work I tell ya
December 21st, 2011
4:42 pm
All these number crunchers on a mid December afternoon, give me a headache…..all stats get boring very quickly.
CB
December 21st, 2011
4:46 pm
Bowman implied the potential JJ trade to Cincinnati the Braves were discussing before Latos trade had organization excited. I would give a dollar to know THAT trade possibility.
nolie
December 21st, 2011
4:46 pm
One thing I’ve noticed when discussing OPS+ is that it gives a good idea of what a hitter can do, but completely discounts baserunning. RC
because both OBP and S% have a greater correlation to runs scored than stolen bases, and I’m afraid that I see little logic in mixing them together like you do. For one thing a successful stolen base does not guarantee a run scored but a caught stealing does guarantee that the runner will not score.
perhaps since I have little belief that steals are all that productive, I look at it differently than you do. I will admit that if PEDS are gone , steals might become a bit more influential, but even B4 PEDS they did not have all that high a correlation