While waiting for Braves deal, my top 50 albums of 2011

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Bat Masterson

December 21st, 2011
10:51 am

I’m sick of Adam Jones…………….. If people are gonna make sh*t up why not make it interesting.

VaBravesFan

December 21st, 2011
10:53 am

Efrim

The guy has alot of talent, entering his prime years. I think he’ll improve over the next few years. He’s better suited for LF as well. Also playing for O’s and being in that terrible lineup doesnt help. I’m not saying I want the Braves to trade for him.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
10:53 am

I think a healthy JJ would fetch a big return in March, or before trade deadline.

Very much disagree. And I also disagree that Wren would actually trade the guy if he was pitching well mid-season. How many of those trades do you see?

Bama Brave

December 21st, 2011
10:55 am

Adam Jones is Better seth Smith OR Reed Johnson…….

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
10:56 am

When you’re figuring payroll and taking into account salary that was shed and salary added via arb raises, contract raises (such as McCann’s raise from $8.5 mill to $11.5 mill)

While the signing bonus is prorated ($200,000 added to each season for accounting purposes), the Braves aren’t using average annual value of entire deal spread evenly over five seasons. For their accounting, he’ll make $4 mill more in 2012 — $13.2 mill including prorated share of signing bonus. Up from $9.2 mill in 2011.

That takes care of TenneseePaul’s view of the payroll, although I commend the optimism.

Rob from SC

December 21st, 2011
10:56 am

Lew

Peter Gammons also tweeted a few weeks ago that nobody realized how bad Heyward’s shoulder was. He has spent the past 2.5 months doing shoulder rehab. I think we will see the good Heyward from now on as long as he quits sliding head first. Freeman should get better as well.

We know Kimbrel can close, Teheran/Delgado/Minor/Vizcaino all have experience now as well. I like our team.

Slowhiteguy

December 21st, 2011
10:59 am

I still think the best match for the Braves to add an OF is with the Yankees. If the Yanks sign Cespedes, I think Swisher becomes available. Jurrjens and maybe a prospect for Swisher makes some sense. Not knowing how much money, if any, the Braves have available obviously may rule that trade out. Also, would Wren trade a sp with 2 years of control for an OF with only one? Food for thought.

David O'Brien

December 21st, 2011
11:00 am

Greinke’s last two seasons before he was traded: 66 starts, 449 IP, 423 K.

Jurrjens’ past two seasons: 43 starts, 268 IP, 176 K.

flange1

December 21st, 2011
11:01 am

This Oriole talk is bizarre.

FW is no dummy, I don’t see him offering 3 players for Adam Jones. There was more to the deal I am sure.

But the further and further we go into the offseason and the more FA that sign, the more difficult it gets for FW to trade Prado.

The LF and and backup 3B folks are signing (see Casey Blake) so FW will have to get both players in trade.

That might be tough to do…..

Ease

December 21st, 2011
11:03 am

I think we will see the good Heyward from now on as long as he quits sliding head first.

Maybe Matt Ryan can give him lessons.

Slowhiteguy

December 21st, 2011
11:04 am

Cespedes + Jurrjens > Swisher + Garcia? Cashman may not think so.

RC

December 21st, 2011
11:04 am

I think we will see the good Heyward from now on as long as he quits sliding head first.

Maybe Matt Ryan can give him lessons.

Ha. Remember when the Falcons had Terry Pendleton come give Michael Vick sliding lessons?

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:07 am

Greinke’s last two seasons before he was traded: 66 starts, 449 IP, 423 K.

Jurrjens’ past two seasons: 43 starts, 268 IP, 176 K.

And here’s the thing, Jurrjens isn’t going to ever miss enough bats to be considered at Greinke’s level. Not ever. And missing bats and having outstanding control is what made people have the oinion that Greinke is a #1 starter type. Jurrjens has never had that sort of profile. After 2009, I felt he was a #2 starter. He has regressed since then. It’s a fact. Just not sure he can even get back to what he was in 2009 – therefore, I just don’t believe teams will yield a significantly better return mid-season. Just don’t believe it. And certainly can’t buy Wren trading him if he is pitching well. That’s a load of crap in itself, but still not part of my overall point.

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:08 am

I doubt that the package was JJ/Prado/Prospect for A. Jones. Probably two packages each built around either Prado or JJ. I like Adam Jones and think he’d be a fair return for JJ at this point. To act like the guy is terrible is ridiculous. Hes hit over .280 the past two seasons and over .270 the two years before that. Hit 19 HR in ‘09 and ‘10 and 25 in ‘11. He hits in a hitter friendly park yes but 31 of his 75 HR are away from home which isn’t terrible. Hes not a terrific defender in CF but I believe hes better than the metrics say and would probably be a plus defender at a corner position. His biggest downfall is the amount of walks he takes. If he takes a few more walks he could easily be a .800 OPS guy. The guy isn’t the most well rounded ball player but hes far from terrible.

VaBravesFan

December 21st, 2011
11:08 am

If that trade was offered, If i’m a O’s fan I would be PISSED right now. No wonder they always suck.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:09 am

Greinke’s last two seasons before he was traded: 66 starts, 449 IP, 423 K.

Jurrjens’ past two seasons: 43 starts, 268 IP, 176 K.

Oh, yes. One more think. Greinke did that in the American League facing a DH. Jurrjens faced National League lineups, folks.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:09 am

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:12 am

Those saying Adam Jones can’t hit two in a lineup may be a little off as hes done that more than any spot in the lineup. Hes hit 2nd or 3rd more than any other position in the lineup and has had really good success in the 2 hole.

.297 .343 .495 .838 (Batting 2nd- 612 PA, 562 AB)

Slowhiteguy

December 21st, 2011
11:13 am

The Holy Trinity of Pitching: Miss bats, dont walk anyone, and get ground balls. JJ only has one of those…he is a 3 starter, period. If you want to add a fourth characteristic to that…stay healthy…JJ misses on that one as well.

TennesseePaul

December 21st, 2011
11:13 am

That takes care of TenneseePaul’s view of the payroll

That wasn’t my view of payroll. That was the version of payroll espoused back when it suited the team to make such statements. When I blast payroll, I typically begin by blasting the Braves front office for its use of payroll as an excuse for whatever it is or is not doing… then I proceed to lament the changing target they use for calculating payroll. That usually comes with the Terry smirk “I see these payroll estimates and laugh.” Thanks Terry! You know what Terry? I see these “bumps in payroll” you talk about and laugh.
After a week or so I just pick one of their methods and beat it into the ground.

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:13 am

Well Reed Johnson has signed so hes off the board.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:14 am

I guess the thing Wren has on his side over the Cubs and Matt Garza is Jurrjens cost in arbitration in 2012. Garza is set to make 9 million through arbitration. while Jurrjens is going to make 5 million. 4 million dollars is a lot of scratch, especially for a team like Toronto.

DAM

December 21st, 2011
11:15 am

Efrim, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Adam Jones is an overrated outfielder who hacks away at anything close to the plate. Sure, he’ll hit you 20-25 HR, but I want no part of a guy whose career OBP is under .320 and drops to .308 away from Camden. I saw enough of that approach from AGon the last couple of years.

TennesseePaul

December 21st, 2011
11:16 am

While the signing bonus is prorated ($200,000 added to each season for accounting purposes), the Braves aren’t using average annual value of entire deal spread evenly over five seasons. For their accounting, he’ll make $4 mill more in 2012 — $13.2 mill including prorated share of signing bonus. Up from $9.2 mill in 2011.

The funny thing is, when the Braves acquired Hampton, they used average annual value spread over the length of the deal. Pick your poison. If you apply the method posted back in those days, they Braves have room to make moves. But the Braves aren’t making moves, so that method is out the window and the more constricting method is the one they actually use.

tony austin

December 21st, 2011
11:16 am

I don’t totally believe the players rumored to be involved with the O’s, but even still, if it is true, it’s nice to know FW is looking around. I think we all know he is, but the Braves’ tight lipped policy allows no one to know (not that I don’t agree with that policy).

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:17 am

TenneseePaul, well, at least we know what Uggla is making for 2012. They’ll have plenty of funds available next offseason….I hope.

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:17 am

VaBravesFan – Peter Angelos should be an abject lesson to those wanting Liberty Media gone in favor of an indivisual owner. Even when he DOES pump money into that team, he does a poor job of letting his baseball people do their jobs and put together a decent team.

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:19 am

Ten Paul – And it truly surprises you that different acocounting methods for different situations exists in the business world and are used at different times depending on what result is desired?

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
11:19 am

It going to be sunny sky over the turner field today

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:20 am

But the Braves aren’t making moves, so that method is out the window and the more constricting method is the one they actually use

Aren’t we talking the difference of 12.4 million and 13.2 million for Uggla? Mac is the contract that hurts, if we are going to talk about going cheapy mode.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:21 am

Although Mac and Uggla’s differences get you to around 7.5 million more to work with. Add that to 5-7 million suggested and we could add Beltran without having to trade anyone. ;)

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
11:23 am

Efrim likes to post … a lot.

VaBravesFan

December 21st, 2011
11:23 am

Reed Johnson signs for around 1.5 mil is my guess, He would have been a good fit. I really dont understand why Wren hasnt been able to sign a backup type player? Maybe he is alot of talks going on with other teams.

CB

December 21st, 2011
11:24 am

Mystery team is the Braves,Efrim. :-)

VaBravesFan

December 21st, 2011
11:25 am

The 5 million we saved from Lowe, was taken up by Uggla and McCann’s pay raises basically. Actually cost more than the 5 mil. Could it be possible we dont have any money to spend?

McFann O O o

December 21st, 2011
11:25 am

Efrim Mac is the contract that hurts

Never!…

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:26 am

He has regressed since then. It’s a fact. Just not sure he can even get back to what he was in 2009

Oh, and to elaborate on this point more – yes, I think Jurrjens first half was fluky and the chances it was going to be repeated were slim. Glad he re-invented himself because he couldn’t throw as hard anymore, but I don’t think that happened because he wanted it too. 2009 Jurrjens with better velocity if the Jair I’ll take.

Lollygagger

December 21st, 2011
11:26 am

I guess it depends on one’s definition or perspective, but it appears that Wren has lost the game of chicken he was playing with COL and CIN. The Reds moved on from Jurrjens and instead acquired Latos for quite a nice haul. The Rockies appear to have moved on from Prado and acquired Cuddyer and Blake. If Wren was waiting for either team to “sweeten the deal” on the table, then I’m afraid he just lost his leverage. I’m kinda thinking now that any LF upgrade will come via a free agent signing. I understand – and agree with- the notion of valuing our players in potential deals, but I’m beginning to think that maybe Wren is over-valuing them just a bit in relation to the market. Let’s say he has tried to work 3 or 4 deals involving JJ and/or Prado. The other teams are saying no and moving on…and giving up pretty good hauls in the deals. Anyone else starting to feel that Wren might be driving too hard of a bargain? Just curious- not saying Wren is absolutely wrong. But he might need to loosen up a bit. Thoughts?

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:28 am

TnBRian – OK, You’re crazy. However, your 12:30 post last night about being spoiled was spot on.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:28 am

Mystery team is the Braves,Efrim

I wish.

Efrim likes to post … a lot.

Sorry, I will refrain from posting as much. Christmas to Opening Day is usually quite a bit more light for me. However, Jurrjens and Prado not getting traded yet might cause me to spill a bit into the cold Winter….

tiger297

December 21st, 2011
11:28 am

did Liberty own the braves when Hampton was signed? Its possible the new ownership group has different accounting methodology or as Lew pointed out they could handle different contracts in different manners.

flange1

December 21st, 2011
11:31 am

Efrim, post all you want! I will read it!

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:31 am

People – They aren’t looking for a LF upgrade, they’re looking for a part time corner outfieler for when Prado is playing third or if Heyward needs some time off.

They really need to do one of two things – either sign Cody Ross or make a deal to get Swisher from the Yankees and sign him to an extension.

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:31 am

If the mystery team did so happen to be the Braves they may stand a decent shot at signing him if the money is competitive w/ the others. Atlanta would be as close as he could get to Puerto Rico which is where his baseball academy is.

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
11:31 am

Lollygagger, well if the reports of JJ/Prado and a prospect for Jones is true then I don’t believe Wren values his guys as highly as you might think. However, it has to be a BS rumor. So yeah, Wren might’ve lost the game of chicken.

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:32 am

tiger – No, Liberty Media came after the Hampton deal – or should we call it the Hampton Fiasco?

David O'Brien

December 21st, 2011
11:33 am

Aren’t we talking the difference of 12.4 million and 13.2 million for Uggla? — Efrim

Not at all. We’re talking, as I said in the post, a difference of $4 mill for Uggla — the $9.2 mill that the Braves used as his salary figure for their payroll accounting in 2011, and the $13.2 mill they’ll use in 2012. They didn’t use $12.4 mill last year. That’s my point. They used $9.2 mill last year, based on conversation I had with someone today.

His AAV is $12.4 mill, and that’s the figure that pops up when most places figure payroll (like the lists you see in USA today, etc.) But team can figure payroll any way it wants, for its own accounting purposes. If it wants to use the actual salary for that particular year, it can and will. Like the Marlins are doing with Reyes and Bell, backloading their contracts. It’ll show up as average annual value (AAV) for each deal on most sites listing payroll in 2012, but for their accounting purposes the amount will be considerably lower now and more in the latter years of those deals.

unbelievable

December 21st, 2011
11:33 am

Depends on what statistic you want to use I guess. A lot of folks like ERA+ better, so here you go.

JJ
Career = 120ERA+
2007 – 98
2008 – 115
2009 – 159
2010 – 84
2011 – 128

Greinke
Career = 114ERA+
2004 – 120
2005 – 76
2006 – 116
2007 – 124
2008 – 126
2009 – 205
2010 – 100
2011 – 102

Career WHIP is almost identical

tony austin

December 21st, 2011
11:33 am

The Cubs may end up with a log jam in OF, anyone have any interest in Marlon Byrd, .276/.324/.395

Lollygagger

December 21st, 2011
11:35 am

Lew-
So you’re saying that Swisher would be a part-time player? Don’t see that happening. And he certainly wouldn’t be inclined to sign an extension with ATL under those circumstances. I’m thinking perhaps I misunderstood what you mean…

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:35 am

Tony Austin

I’ve been hoping they make Byrd available all offseason though I don’t see it happening and the amount of return they’d get for him would probably be minimal.

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
11:35 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, Efrim, but I don’t remember seeing you much during the season around here. In fact, this is the first winter I can remember seeing you here this much at all. What’s up with that?

VaBravesFan

December 21st, 2011
11:37 am

I just think keeping Prado and Jurrjens makes the most sense, we wont get a return we want. But that means we need to sign atleast a veteran Shortstop still. Guess anything more than that would be bonus lol which is pretty sad. I really dont see how we cant sign 2 guys tho. Talking about pure bench guys.

Wilson Betemit, Cody Ross, Ronny Cedeno, Jack Wilson, Edgar Renteria, Orlando Cabrera, Craig Councell, Ceaser Izturis, Ryan Theriot, Mark DeRosa, Andruw Jones, JD Drew, Scott Hairston, Corey Patterson, Johnny Damon there are alot guys out there that will be getting a low salary.

We need a new backup 3rd baseman so Prado can LF fulltime, or a better 4th OF to play LF when Prado plays 3B, also need a Shortstop to backup Pastornicky. Some of the names mentioned could be looking at minor league deals, or incentive deals. Some solid options to choose from that can help this team.

Bat Masterson

December 21st, 2011
11:37 am

did Liberty own the braves when Hampton was signed?

Time Warner, I think

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:37 am

Personally I’d like to see the Braves sign Cody Ross to serve as the 4th OF and Theriot to serve as the back up INF. Let Sutton/Hicks and Diaz battle it out for that 25 man spot.

TommyP

December 21st, 2011
11:37 am

Efrim: I’m the opposite….once Opening Day arrives, my posting dwindles. I’m not into the second-guessing of the manager….EVERY….SINGLE….DAY.

The hot stove is a much better time for just pure baseball discussion.

Concerning the O’s/Braves tweet, no way Wren offered all 3 for A.Jones. No way. But I’ll also say that those saying Jones “sucks” are being just a tad dramatic. He’s young, athletic, has some pop…with potential to improve. He would slip nicely into LF to give us one of the best defensive OFs in baseball.

Linebrinks Security

December 21st, 2011
11:39 am

Keep Prado, keep JJ …. if you’re really intent on trading one or both, wait for the trade deadline (where contenders will be trying to improve) and maybe during the first half of the season teams will have seen JJ pitch, while healthy, and then decided what kind of risks they’re willing to take.

Just don’t feel like you HAVE to trade the Wren. If no one comes calling, sit on them and take that “wait and see” attitude

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:40 am

TommyP

I’m with you. I tend to come on here mostly during the offseason. Once the season starts I rarely make an appearance due to other things that keep me occupied but mostly the griping that goes on every pitch during a game. Its aggravating.

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:42 am

Lollygagger- Never said anything about Nick being a part timer. That’s just the one move I would like to see and would be willing to put Martin back to Super Utility guy for.

I’ve been advocating that they get Swisher for three years now. If they had hi, they not only would have beaten the Giants in 2010, but they would have made it to the playoffs this year, too. Dude would be a difference maker for the Braves – high OBP, lots of power, switch hitter.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:42 am

Not at all. We’re talking, as I said in the post, a difference of $4 mill for Uggla — the $9.2 mill that the Braves used as his salary figure for their payroll accounting in 2011, and the $13.2 mill they’ll use in 2012.

I know that. I just meant that the difference from 12.4 and 13.2 is 800K, and that isn’t significant enough to think that the Braves are being cheap. That’s all I meant. Was responding to TenneseePaul’s post. ;)

DS1

December 21st, 2011
11:42 am

TnBrian

Sometimes it’s better to shut the heck up and make people wonder if you are ignorant, than to make random posts and remove all doubt.

Efrim’s contributions on this board are appreciated by me and most others, I’d guess.

urban redneck

December 21st, 2011
11:42 am

i am tired of hearing about trade rumors involving our boys. prado and JJ’s values have actually gone down recently because it seems like we need to trade them.

if we want to stand pat, that’s fine.

Lew

December 21st, 2011
11:43 am

And Swisher plays 150+ games every year – unlike some people suggested ad nauseum as potential LFers here.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:44 am

His AAV is $12.4 mill, and that’s the figure that pops up when most places figure payroll (like the lists you see in USA today, etc.) But team can figure payroll any way it wants, for its own accounting purpose

I’d rather look at it the way it’s broken down from year to year and how they have it on Cots – as oppose to AAV. Backloading deals is the way it works in the sport. I’m cool with it.

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
11:44 am

Swisher would be perfect. Check out his numbers. Braves are smart people, you know that they’ve looked into getting him too. NYY probably wouldn’t even think about trading him though without the other team “overpaying”. I think he might be worth overpaying a little to be honest.

Rob from SC

December 21st, 2011
11:44 am

Wren said months ago that he really wasn’t interested in the players in the free agent pool. He said he would fill the teams needs through trade. So why is everyone shocked we are not signing free agents

richbrave

December 21st, 2011
11:45 am

raleighbravefan
December 21st, 2011
10:30 am

ncbraves – You may be right, but still not worth the package mentioned, IMO, unless there was a significant additional part from the O’s…preferably a backup infielder worth something.

Keep in mind also…Baltimore = hitter friendly park, with no pressure to perform.

Which is why I agreed with LEW and said WREN stopped negotiating at the point when a counter-offer involving three players was presented.

It’s all conjecture on our parts anyway. No one I know was there, but something did happen, of that I am sure..

A reasonable person would end negotiations with JJ, PRADO AND a prospect being bandied about. Just too silly to be believable.

VaBravesFan

December 21st, 2011
11:45 am

I think the answer is in free agency. Just need 2 low-key moves. What about Andruw Jones or JD Drew reunion? They would be pretty cheap, and be in a part time role. Jones would be a power option while Drew is more OBP. Both decent options to play LF for 40 games when Prado is at 3rd.

David O'Brien

December 21st, 2011
11:46 am

I know that. I just meant that the difference from 12.4 and 13.2 is 800K, and that isn’t significant enough to think that the Braves are being cheap. That’s all I meant. — Efrim

Ahh … my bad. Now I understand the point you were making.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:46 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, Efrim, but I don’t remember seeing you much during the season around here. In fact, this is the first winter I can remember seeing you here this much at all. What’s up with that?

Wasn’t around January – June this past year, really busy time of my life. But prior to that, I’ve been on this blog since the winter of 2006. Ask any of the regulars here. Definitely not posting as much, but I’ve been around for sure.

Rob from SC

December 21st, 2011
11:47 am

Look at who has been signed/traded…..

We didn’t need SP or RP… we didn’t need Pujols.. Cuddyer for three years might be pushing it.

So who have we really missed out on?

Lollygagger

December 21st, 2011
11:47 am

That’s what I thought you meant, Lew. And I agree. I really like Swisher a lot- not only for his play but mostly for his clubhouse presence. The Braves often appear to be a bunch of sticks-in-the-mud in the dugout. Swisher would liven it up and help them play a little looser.
Here’s your statement that led to my confusion about part-time and Swisher:
People – They aren’t looking for a LF upgrade, they’re looking for a part time corner outfieler for when Prado is playing third or if Heyward needs some time off.

Juan

December 21st, 2011
11:49 am

Looking at the 2012 Braves Schedule for the month of April, i think this team can be at FIRST Place at the end of april with a 16-7 record.
Braves play Mets= 6 games, Astro 3 games, Pirates 4 games, Brewer 3, Dback 4 games and Dodger 3.
We don’t play Phillis,Natl,miami on april, they play each other in a 3 games series.

TommyP

December 21st, 2011
11:49 am

The in-season blog evolves into nothing but cheering/complaining during game time and complaining thereafter. Completely different read as to now.

Which brings me to the question concerning those that post during games….why are you posting, “Yeah…atta boy” and things like that during the game? Just don’t get the point, honestly. Total waste of energy while watching a ballgame. But that’s just me.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
11:49 am

No prob, DOB. Make it up to me by posting your Top 10 hip hop/rap albums at some point within the next few months.(you don’t really have too, just kidding)

Maybe early March – Notorious B.I.G.’s 15th anniversary of his passing. ;)

richbrave

December 21st, 2011
11:50 am

DAM
December 21st, 2011
11:15 am

Efrim, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Adam Jones is an overrated outfielder who hacks away at anything close to the plate. Sure, he’ll hit you 20-25 HR, but I want no part of a guy whose career OBP is under .320 and drops to .308 away from Camden. I saw enough of that approach from AGon the last couple of years.

I get on board with that unless being in a BRAVES line-up and at TURNER would significantly increase his OBP. Can’t see it myself without a complete change of philosophy at the plate.

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:51 am

VaBravesFan

I wouldn’t mind seeing AJ back. He would serve a similar purpose to Cody Ross and probably cheaper. I don’t know that JD Drew signs for a back up role. That would surprise me. Not to mention hes LH.

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:54 am

Brewers sign Cesar Izturis. Another SS off the board.

CB

December 21st, 2011
11:55 am

Cross Izturis off our list- Brewers. Guess The Insider missed.

Slowhiteguy

December 21st, 2011
11:56 am

Brewers signed Cesar Izturis.

Wow

December 21st, 2011
11:56 am

It’s clear that the Braves value Prado and Jurrjens more than other teams do.

TennesseePaul

December 21st, 2011
11:56 am

Aren’t we talking the difference of 12.4 million and 13.2 million for Uggla? Mac is the contract that hurts, if we are going to talk about going cheapy mode.

I have noticed that the Braves have typically, or at least recently, handed out contracts that keep free agent years flat and pre-arb/arb years as progressive. Take Uggla and McCann and toss in Lowe. Lowe’s contract (even KK’s) was flat. Same value every guaranteed year. Uggla and McCann had some FA years and arb/pre-arb years. The arb/pre-arb years are less than the FA years and the base salaries for FA years are flat. I have my suspicions that this is either an effort to maintain low costs in arbitration, or a conspiracy reaching the highest levels of the land involving every man, woman and child unwittingly as baseball moves to take over the universe.

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
11:57 am

P’Cola, at first I thought I read “Braves sign Cesar Izturis” … mercy that was scary.

DS1, I like Efrim. Everybody does. STFU

P'cola Brave

December 21st, 2011
11:57 am

•The Red Sox are “kicking around their preference” between trying to sign Hiroki Kuroda or trade for Gio Gonzalez, writes Yahoo’s Tim Brown.

So I guess Jurrjens isn’t an option?

TennesseePaul

December 21st, 2011
11:58 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, Efrim, but I don’t remember seeing you much during the season around here

You are wrong.

Hillbilly

December 21st, 2011
11:59 am

But prior to that, I’ve been on this blog since the winter of 2006. Ask any of the regulars here. Definitely not posting as much, but I’ve been around for sure.

Yep. Got here just a few months after I did if I recall correctly.

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
12:00 pm

Wren will be like that person running over to that scrap pile that everybody has just left sitting their full of useless junk. He’ll grab a piece or two and run like the wind … :lol:

TennesseePaul

December 21st, 2011
12:02 pm

Yep. Got here just a few months after I did if I recall correctly.

Yall were around for the great schism, right? That goes back to about that time.

ChattTownBrian (CTB)

December 21st, 2011
12:02 pm

“You are wrong” TennesseePaul

And that’s something new??

MFin04

December 21st, 2011
12:03 pm

It appears the Braves want to sign a versatile veteran backup SS for less than the league minimum and can’t find a way to get the deal done! :roll:

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
12:05 pm

I have my suspicions that this is either an effort to maintain low costs in arbitration, or a conspiracy reaching the highest levels of the land involving every man, woman and child unwittingly as baseball moves to take over the universe.

That was hilarious. Hah!

The Red Sox are “kicking around their preference” between trying to sign Hiroki Kuroda or trade for Gio Gonzalez, writes Yahoo’s Tim Brown.

If they trade for Gio, then that increases the chances that Toronto could be a suitor for Jurrjens.

Best case scenario is that Dombrowski(Detroit) pays big for Gonzalez or some other team that has no chance of getting Jurrjens. Washington, I believe would also be a good scenario…..except for the fact that it makes them better…….

Brava

December 21st, 2011
12:05 pm

No way that rumor about Prado, JJ and a prospect for Adam Jones is true. Frank Wren is not an idiot.

MFin04

December 21st, 2011
12:06 pm

“It’s clear that the Braves value Prado and Jurrjens more than other teams do.”

As they should. Both are All-Stars. Jurrjens is at least a #2 if not an Ace. Prado can play both 3rd and left, and could be a starting 2nd baseman in most places. I have no problem with them “overvaluing” both of them. Both are great players that shouldn’t be shipped off for unproven prospects.

tiger297

December 21st, 2011
12:06 pm

I wonder how long I’ve been here…it seems like forever but I think it is much more recent than that

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
12:07 pm

Yall were around for the great schism, right? That goes back to about that time.

Hmmmm…splain – please.

Lew

December 21st, 2011
12:07 pm

Lollygagger – Yeah, I should have been clearer. My fault cause I don’t edit like I should – you’d never know I actually taught HS English comp and am a published author – OR that I had two full years of typing back when they used the lower case L instead of 1.

Hillbilly

December 21st, 2011
12:08 pm

Yall were around for the great schism, right? That goes back to about that time.

Yes, that was actually about a year later, in late ‘07, I think.

Efrim

December 21st, 2011
12:09 pm

Boston – Kuroda
Detroit – Gonzalez
Toronto – Garza
Washington – Oswalt
Miami – Jackson

That would certainly leave Jurrjens with us – which I’m okay with.

Rob from SC

December 21st, 2011
12:09 pm

Speaking of Jurrjens… Where did the missing 3mph on his fastball go… Same thing for Tommy Hanson?

kwajbraves

December 21st, 2011
12:09 pm

Sue Disney and use money to sign Ethier and Hamilton next year. :)

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