Baseball’s a business — ask Moylan, Conrad

It was Tyler Pastornicky’s 22nd birthday Tuesday, the day the Braves announced that Brooks Conrad had been non-tendered along with Peter Moylan, making the two of them free agents. The Braves want a shortstop better than Conrad to back up the rookie Pastornicky if he’s to be the starter.

Few were surprised — or at least few should’ve been — that Moylan was non-tendered, because we’ve mentioned it could be coming since shortly after it was announced in September that he needed shoulder surgery. And since last week, it had been abundantly clear.

Conrad is congratulated by Chipper Jones after hitting a walkoff grand slam to cap a remarkable ninth-inning rally against Cincinnati in 2010.

Conrad is congratulated by Chipper Jones after hitting a walkoff grand slam to cap a remarkable ninth-inning rally against Cincinnati in 2010.

But Conrad? Most of us figured that after he survived his nightmarish three-error debacle of a division-series game in 2010, then remained on the 40-man roster and won an Opening Day spot again in 2011 — well, it seemed Conrad was probably safe until he started making too much money.

Not so.

Even before he was eligible for arbitration, with the Braves in position to pay him as little as the major league minimum salary of $480,000 in 2012 if he was on the team, and even with Conrad still having a minor league option, meaning he could have been sent down without going through waivers, the Braves non-tendered him Tuesday.

The only key difference between being non-tendered and outright released is that the Braves could, if they wanted to, now sign Conrad to a minor league deal and not have to wait until mid-May to add him back to the roster (any player given his outright release between Sept. 1 and Opening Day can’t be returned to the 40-man roster until May 15th).

But make no mistake, the Braves gave Conrad no assurances whatsoever that they would try to re-sign him later. Instead, they told him to look and see what’s out there, try to get into a good opportunity with another team, and if nothing came up and he was interested in signing a minor league deal later this winter or spring, then they’d be open to discussing it with him.

There’s a pretty good chance Conrad has played his last game for the Braves.

On Friday, Conrad was home with his wife and young kids at their suburban Phoenix home when got a call from a Braves official. He was told then what the team was going to do before Monday’s midnight tender/non-tender deadline.

“It was a little bit of a shock because I had no indication of what they were thinking [until that call],” said Conrad, who didn’t realize his job was in jeopardy when he left Atlanta after the season.

If the grand slam was his personal high, this was the low -- Conrad's three errors in a division-series loss against San Francisco in 2010.

If the grand slam was his personal high, this was the low -- Conrad's three-error game in a 2010 division-series loss to San Francisco.

But when he was told Friday of the Braves’ plans, to have a utility infielder who was a strong defensive shortstop to be the backup at that position.

“Obviously looking at the roster and hearing what they’re going to do, it makes a little sense,” Conrad said, “in that they want to have that security in the backup veteran shortstop.

“It’s just the way the business works. Obviously it’s sad to hear because I love Atlanta, love the organization and everybody in the clubhouse. I guess we’ll look around and see what we can do, what we can find.”

Conrad handled the situation as he has every other one in his two years with Atlanta. Whether he struck out with runners on base late in a tie game, or hit a walkoff grand slam to cap one of the greatest ninth-inning comebacks. Whether he made a string of defensive gems during 2010 spring training that made us say I thought this guy was supposed to be a barely serviceable defender?, or played so badly in the field for a few weeks in 2011 that we pitied him and honestly wondered whether the guy would be able to play again or be scarred for life.

Through those situations and everything in-between, Conrad was always the same. At his locker afterward to answer questions. Humble when he did well, never making excuses when he didn’t.

This is a man who appreciated his station in life as much as anyone. Having toiled in the minors until he got his first cup of coffee with Oakland at age 28.  Having only 73 at-bats in the bigs before he was 30 in 2010, when he finally got to stick around for a while, playing in 103 games that season for Bobby Cox’s Braves.

There was a reason that every teammate supported him and defended him after his gaffes cost the Braves so dearly in the 2010 division series against San Francisco. They really loved the guy. He was a big part of their clubhouse, and they pulled for him like a brother.

We’re all gonna miss him. He was as good a dude as you’ll meet in the game. We toss around the clichés about players being good guys and playing the game the right way, respecting team and all that, but with him it was entirely accurate.

“I wished I could have stayed,” Conrad said  tonight. “I could end up coming back.”

He said something about the Braves’ mentioning the possibility of a minor league deal. “Which was nice,” he said. “Very gracious of them, they’d like me back, maybe. We’re gonna look around and see what’s going on and see what happens.”

And that was it. No ripping the team, on or off the record. No tone of bitterness whatsoever.

“It’s little bit of bad news,” he said, with one of his infant children making noise in the background. “Just because of way I feel about the city, the fans, the support I got there. Just an awesome organization. It was privilege to be part of, day in and day out. I have a little bit of a heavy heart, but it’s just part of the business.”

One of our blog commenters, who goes by the handle Mister Frisky, asked today, “Can someone tell me why Conrad was brought back for 2011?”

I’ll take a stab, Frisky: Conrad had seven homers and a .500 slugging percentage in 120 at-bats against right-handers in 2010.

With bases loaded, he went 4-for-9 with two grand slams and 11 RBIs.

With runners in scoring position, he led the Braves with a .378 average (17-for-45), with nine extra-base hits and a whopping 1.195 OPS.

And in close-and-late situations, he hit .313 (15-for-48) with a team-high five homers and .750 slugging percentage.

Yeah, he was a big-time clutch hitter for the Braves in 2010, Frisky. Helped win a whole lot more games than he lost with his September-October defensive gaffes.

That’s why he was brought back. But the performance slipped this past season, and now he’s looking for a job. Such is a life of a major league journeyman.

♣About Moylan: We thought he might be non-tendered as soon as the extent of the injury became known. And even though the surgery wasn’t as invasive as most of  had expected when we first heard “torn rotator cuff,” it was nevertheless a procedure that typically requires six months of recovery.

And anyone who’s been around baseball for long can tell you, shoulders are more unpredictable and often more difficult to rehab that elbows. Especially for pitchers.

And he’s 33, not 23.

Moylan's tattoos should nicely conceal the surgery scars on his right shoulder and elbow.

Moylan's tattoos should nicely conceal the surgery scars on his right shoulder and elbow.

So even though Moylan is a clubhouse favorite and integral part of some recent Braves teams, a workhorse who has cranked out 80 or more appearances in three of the past four seasons, including a franchise-record 87 the year he came back from Tommy John elbow surgery, we knew the budget-conscious Braves might go the prudent route and not tender a contract that would’ve guaranteed him at least a $1.6 million salary in 2013 (the maximum paycut for arbitration-eligible players is 20 percent, and he made $2 mill in 2011).

Last week in Dallas at the Winter Meetings, GM Frank Wren made it pretty clear to us that’s the route the Braves would go, and later try to re-sign Moylan as a free agent provided they are satisfied with his rehab progress. They wanted to see if there are any lingering issues after he starts throwing, and did not want to commit much money to him when they believed there was a chance he’d not be ready for the early part of the season.

Moylan’s supposed to start throwing next month and told me Tuesday that his goal is to be ready at the beginning of the season. He said the shoulder feels strong and he has no restrictions on its use, other than to wait till January to throw. He posted on Twitter at about 6:15 a.m.Tuesday that he had completed his morning workout at the gym, adding, “And I guess I’m a free agent.”

Teammates might advise the Braves re-sign him because his contributions to the bullpen go beyond his considerable workload when healthy. He is a character who keeps everyone loose in the ‘pen, and already has more seniority than any reliever currently under contract on a team that lost Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito to retirement and free agency after the 2010 season, and let Scott Linebrink and George Sherrill go as free agents after they struggled or got hurt late in the 2011 season.

So unless the Braves sign another graybeard, Moylan will be the closest they have in the ‘pen. And even if they do sign another veteran, it’d probably help to have two older guys in the ‘pen. We never know when Kris Medlen, penciled in for bullpen duty, could get switched to the rotation and leave the ‘pen with only two pitchers (Eric O’Flaherty and Jonny Venters) who currently have as much as two full seasons of MLB service?

♣Heyward in the D.R.? No, but it might have happened. When the season ended, the Braves discussed the possibility of asking Jason Heyward to play winter ball in the Dominican Republic, after his injury-plagued disappointing second season. Word spread down in the D.R. that he was coming and would play for Escogido. A baseball writer down there e-mailed to ask me if it was true.

The Braves considered asking Jason Heyward to play winter ball in the Dominican Republic, before deciding he'd be better served working with the team's new hitting coach in Atlanta.

The Braves considered asking Jason Heyward to play winter ball in the Dominican Republic, before deciding he'd be better served working with the team's new hitting coach in Atlanta.

Turns out, discussion never got to the point of asking Heyward what he thought. After the Braves hired new hitting coach Greg Walker and Scott Fletcher for their new assistant hitting coach position, Wren said it was decided by team officials and Walker that Heyward would be better served working in Atlanta this winter with the new hitting coaches, who both live in the area.

Wren said at the Winter Meetings that Heyward would begin twice-weekly sessions at Turner Field this week. Heyward got back Monday from a weekend at Nike Headquarters in Oregon with some of the company’s other high-profile endorsers from baseball.

♣ Regarding payroll: Got this lovely missive directed at me last week on the ol’ blog, the latest in a long series of similar posts from this fella. A couple of other folks on the blog mentioned that it was helpful to their understanding of Braves payroll and the lack of specific figures provided by the team, so I figured I’d run most of the question and my reply again here, since many probably missed it on page 50-something of the comments.

Here is the obvious question: Who expected a Hanley, Fredi reunion? Am I missing something? Hey AJC. Rather than write captain obvious piece, how about lets find out a solid number for this years budget? And they wont tell you, say “they wont tell me.” Jesus. We are truely sheep around here. — Najeh Davenpoop, aka @Fredo

My reply: “I thought we’d stated this multiple times, but perhaps not. My fault. I’ll be more clear: The Braves have not given us their payroll limit or target or what they have to spend, for at least the past three years. They have left it to us to speculate, then to add together the salary amounts and come to an actual payroll figure, which is sometimes slightly different from their own accounting because they don’t tell us exactly how each player’s salary is figured into that year’s payroll — i.e. is it amortized equally over the length of the contract, including signing bonus? Is a buyout spread over multiple years, if they knew in advance they’d be exercising said buyout, as was the case with Nate McLouth? Or does the buyout go into the following year’s payroll, if that works best for the team at that time. We don’t know and we’re not told if our speculation is correct.

“This [team] isn’t a state institution, where we can simply demand to see the books. The Braves nor any other MLB team is compelled to say how much money it makes, how much it spends, etc. They just aren’t. And unlike the NFL and the NBA, where there are salary caps, there is no cap in baseball and many teams don’t share a lot of financial details because they are free to spend what they want to spend until they reach the luxury-tax threshold, at which point teams must pay a tax on any amount over. That affects only the Yankees, Red Sox and very few other teams in any given year.

“So no, we can’t tell you exactly how much the Braves have to spend. Because they don’t tell us what their payroll limit is, or how close our estimates might be, or whether it’s a hard-and-fast payroll number they work with or one that might change if necessary. Since it’s set by the Braves, or the Braves and Liberty Media, and since they don’t share it despite numerous queries by us in the media, how would you suggest we go about getting that number, Mr. Davenpoop? Again, this isn’t the NFL or the NBA, where such information is shared for an obvious reason — those leagues have salary caps.”

♣ Etc. Tigers manager Jim Leyland said during the postseason this year that Justin Verlander was the best pitcher he’d ever managed. I was talking to Leyland last week in the hotel lobby at the Winter Meetings about the 1997 Marlins that he managed and I covered. One of us mentioned sinkerballing menace Kevin Brown. “He was the best pitcher I had before Verlander,” Leyland said…. If you’ve never seen the Tim Hudson appearance on MLB Network’s Intentional Talk, you must. Funny stuff. Click here for the link…. Speaking of Medlen, he’s active, candid and amusing on Twitter. He had this comment Tuesday morning when someone mentioned a projected starting rotation. “@ajcbraves @nicoia geez everyone is counting me out of the rotation huh? Hahaha”… Those wondering what Miami’s new retractable-roof stadium will look like, click here to see a photo tour done Tuesday by Palm Beach Post Marlins beat writer Joe Capozzi. The stadium – it looks sleek and nice, but just not a place I’d call a “ballpark” – is said to be 92-percent complete.

♣ OK, let’s close with a beauty from Pearl Jam. You can hear a powerful live version by clicking here, and be sure to watch all the way through.

By the way, a couple of special music notes. Jason Isbell gave us a lot of time for an interview last week, which I think you fans of his music are going to love. I’ll post it here in the next day or two. He’s a huge Braves fan, so we talked some about baseball and a lot about his music, what inspires him, and what it’s been  like leading his own band since leaving the Drive-By Truckers.

I’m about to finish my annual Top 50 CDs list, which should be up in another week or so, well before Christmas. Thanks to all those who’ve asked and said you look forward to that.

pearl_jam

“BLACK” by Pearl Jam (E. Vedder)

Hey… oooh…
Sheets of empty canvas, untouched sheets of clay
Were laid spread out before me as her body once did.
All five horizons revolved around her soul
As the earth to the sun
Now the air I tasted and breathed has taken a turn

Ooh, and all I taught her was everything
Ooh, I know she gave me all that she wore
And now my bitter hands chafe beneath the clouds
Of what was everything.
Oh, the pictures have all been washed in black, tattooed everything…

I take a walk outside
I’m surrounded by some kids at play
I can feel their laughter, so why do I sear?
Oh, and twisted thoughts that spin round my head
I’m spinning, oh, I’m spinning
How quick the sun can drop away

And now my bitter hands cradle broken glass
Of what was everything?
All the pictures have all been washed in black, tattooed everything…

All the love gone bad turned my world to black
Tattooed all I see, all that I am, all I’ll be… yeah…
Uh huh… uh huh… ooh…

I know someday you’ll have a beautiful life,
I know you’ll be a sun in somebody else’s sky, but why
Why, why can’t it be, can’t it be mine

Aah… uuh..

Too doo doo too, too doo doo….

– By David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog

3,632 comments Add your comment

stone

December 14th, 2011
1:27 am

If I were allowed to post here I’d be first. Literally the “First” time I’ve ever posted that. and on a blog w/ Pearl Jam lyrics no less. Damn, oh well. Nobody will ever see this. feel free to “unblock” me DOB. I’m one of your biggest fans

stone

December 14th, 2011
1:28 am

well I’ll be damned. hey DOB think we can trade JJ for Ryan Braun?

Around The Horn

December 14th, 2011
1:29 am

It’s a shame to see Conrad apparently go.

ScottBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
1:36 am

Nice! Pearl Jam. I hope they tour in the U.S. next year.

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
1:41 am

DOB: I know you probably have seen the post from Ken Rosenthal about a possible deal between the Orioles and Braves. Do you think a deal of Prado, JJ and Pastornicky for Adam Jones and JJ Hardy is a equitable swap?

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
1:43 am

Not to fan flames, but Kenny Rosenthal wondered aloud on Twitter tonight whether Braves and Orioles might be working on a “big trade.”

I don’t know, but I asked specifically about Adam Jones today, and the reaction, or lack thereof, just gave me a feeling that it might indeed be possible they’d trade him. New O’s GM Duquette said recently he didn’t plan to trade him, but wasn’t adamant or definitive, which you’d think a GM would be coming into a new team like that with a young star player like that.

The Orioles beat writer I checked with said he didn’t think they’d trade him, but also opined that he thought they should because they’re not going to win right now, he’s going to be a free agent after 2 more seasons, and the org. is desparately in need of pitching.

Would JJ and a strong pitching prospect do it? Or JJ and Prado? I don’t know. Just speculating. I don’t know, but Braves have been conspicuously quiet, while talking here and there — as Fredi did last week — about getting a big bat. Yet they haven’t been in on any of the free-agent sluggers available, which makes me think they’ve had one or two targeted for a trade.

It’s interesting to think about, because Adam Jones would, in some ways, be a perfect fit. He could play LF this season if the Braves trade Prado, then move to CF either in 2013 or even sooner if the Braves decided to trade Bourn before the July deadline. Again, just speculating here. But Jones is the kind of player the Braves could invest in long-term, since they’d have so much money coming off the books next winter.

The O’s also have shortstop J.J. Hardy (30 HR explosion last season) signed to a deal that pays him $7 mill each of the next three seasons. If they want to keep their young outfielder and think Hardy’s trade value is higher than it’ll ever be again, maybe they’d move him? I’ve just never fully believed the Braves are content to go into the season with Pastornicky as the starting shortstop. On the other hand, I do believe them when they say they want a one-year bridge, not a three-year guy, which would rule out Hardy. He’d block Pastornicky and/or potentially SS Andrelton Simmons behind him.

Another possibility is O’s outfielder Nick Markakis, but I know in the past owner Angelos has made it pretty clear he wouldn’t let that guy be traded. Greek thing and all that, I guess. He really likes Markakis, who’s under contract for about $60 mill over the next four seasons. Jones just makes a lot more sense, to me, if the Braves are talking trade with the O’s.

We’ll see.

[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
1:48 am

DOB, it seems like Hardy would be a natural to come with him ; 3 year contract at $7 Mil. Really good defense, RHed Power would really fill the final holes on the roster.

Baseball 101

December 14th, 2011
1:52 am

DOB – I asked this question before, but probably at the wrong time.

The blog Headline is “Baseball is A Business”. I am very interested in how the Braves (an entertainment business) actually conduct their business during game days. You have mentioned over the years the various pre – game meetings that occur, but I would love to read a recap of how the Braves conduct their game – day business. Meetings? Medical staff? Advance scouts? Surely this organization has a scripted game – day process.

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
2:00 am

DOB; Hardy could always be traded when Simmons is ready

Chop Chop

December 14th, 2011
2:05 am

Well-written, multi-faceted blog there, DOB. My favorite PJ song of all-time is a live version of Black they did in Chicago in 2000. I bought the album during my interlude in the Army at Ft. Sill, OK. Great stuff.

(Oh, and count me as one who is looking forward to your Top 50.)

As for this Adam Jones business, I say we might as well trade Prado and Jurrjens for him if Duquette will do it. The trade would free up some cash for a solid infield option to spell Chipper and SS, a spot for Jones, and a place in the rotation for Medlen, Minor, etc. to fight over. Jones doesn’t get on base much, but our outfield D would be great and he does have solid HR power. He’d also be likely to produce his career year in a Braves uni.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:10 am

I couldn’t even come up with my top two in anything I don’t think. Bands, albums,tv shows, movies etc; that all changes back and forth from time to time

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
2:11 am

Chop Chop: Both JJ and Prado (Both former All Stars ) would be too much just for Jones(Jones only has 2 years before free agency just like Jurjjens and Prado), but if JJ. Hardy was included in would be good for both, with maybe Pastornicky and a maybe a young pitcher(not a top 6 young pitcher).
The Braves shopping would be done, except for the bench

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
2:13 am

nolie, What do you think about the Adam Jones/Hardy possibility.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:25 am

perhaps the trade with Baltimore would be more on the level of a Luke Scott?
as for Jones, he isn’t much at getting on base but he is one of the better hitting CFers around.
On the other hand Bill James/Fielders Bible rank him as a pretty bad defensive CFer anymore, with large totals of minus runs saved the last three years.

[...] from: Baseball’s a business — ask Moylan, Conrad – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) Related Posts:Baseball America | Blog | Baseball America Prospects Blog | Minor … The first [...]

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
2:33 am

nolie: Luke Scott was non tendered

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:33 am

off the top of my head, with Hardy and Jones you would be adding two guys who both are pretty poor OBP hitters and who would most likely hit for fewer homers here than in Baltimore which is usually a good homer park.
Harding is due 7 mil and I’m not sure i see him as being worth that myself, and I do not see the Braves paying it.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:35 am

yeah CCR, I remembered that after I submitted. we talked about him earlier in that regard.

kenhotlanta

December 14th, 2011
2:37 am

Great blog, DOB, thanks, I look forward to the Top 50, too. You know, my tastes lean toward classic rock and Americana, but I value your opinions on new music and I always check out a lot of the artists and albums you share with us.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:39 am

who was that last OFer we got from the Orioles who hit so well there and was kinduva dud here?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:42 am

on deeper thought I guess if Gonzo is worth 4mil, Hardy is likely worth close to 7. but I still don’t see the Braves as interested at that price

Ward

December 14th, 2011
2:43 am

Hello everyone! Saw a new blog,and decided to come on. Did anyone read about what Jonh Rckers has told everyone in his new book? John is the kind of guy that would go against his own team mates.

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
2:44 am

Nolie; The salary for Jones and Hardy would only come to about $11.5 million, while JJ and Prado would be at about $9.5 million. Hardy is a very good defensive SS with power and your right about the OBP, not great for either, but they both hit LHers pretty well and paly good D

kenhotlanta

December 14th, 2011
2:44 am

Gene Woodling??

Ward

December 14th, 2011
2:48 am

John Rocker say’s that some members of the Braves took steriods too,which I find hard to beleive,and think Rocker is just out to make the bucks.

Ward

December 14th, 2011
2:49 am

I wouldn’t mind Adam Jones LF,but then I wouldn’t mind anybody that can hit.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:52 am

Hardy is a very good defensive SS with power and your right about the OBP, not great for either, but they both hit LHers pretty well and paly good D

Hardy shows as being an average SS in Runs Saved-they ranked him 16th, 9th and 11th the last three years- and I think the power drops a good bit away from Baltimore. No matter the combined money totals, i just don’t see then as being interested in Hardy. JMO of course

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:54 am

Surhoff. not sure why that took a minute to remember ??

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
2:55 am

nolie, your probably right, but it sure would make it an interesting season!

kenhotlanta

December 14th, 2011
2:56 am

I think you are right, nolie, I forgot him too.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
2:58 am

they still might be interested in Jones, who knows?
I’m not sure why his Going Deep numbers have become so poor the last three years though.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
3:00 am

at least some interesting rumors are flying around to talk about ;)

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:02 am

I hope the Braves can just sign Bourn? That would show a commitment to the Braves,and that they can work out a contract.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
3:03 am

I hope they pass on Bourn if he wants what Bora$ will likely ask for

nolie

December 14th, 2011
3:03 am

GG. TTFN y’all.

ccrider

December 14th, 2011
3:05 am

nolie, Back at ya

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:06 am

nolie-Have a good one buddy,but I would build your out field around Bourn.Just thought I would come on for a few post,and all have a good one! Good to hear some news of possible trades again,and peace my friends……

haggard

December 14th, 2011
3:29 am

David O’Brien

I just wandered in–unable to sleep–and turned on the Christmas tree just long enough for the bubble lights to heat up as Suzy Bogguss and Delbert McClinton dueted on “Baby It’s Cold Outside”.
I was thinking about the O’Brien clan just recently; thinking you must have had a great time in Colorado during Thanksgiving with the folks and sister’s family on hand.

And what an eclectic mix in the new bloggage. Thanks.

Your conversation with Brooks Conrad gave reason to remember his first appearance on the field following his Murphy’s Law game during the 2010 playoffs. And I’ll bet he remembers it, too.
As we do many times, I had arrived early and met my friend to stand around, talk, and shag fly balls during batting practice in the left field stands. For some reason I had walked to the other side of Turner Field–just above where tiger297 resides– and was talking to a friend when I first noticed a smattering of applause. As the volume increased I looked up to see Conrad wave his glove to the fans in left field, who then clapped even harder in their effort to assuage the feelings of a man who had experienced the sting of humiliation many of them had last felt on the field in Little League. Or maybe high school.
At any rate, when I made my way back to the left field stands, I learned it was my friend who started that small ovation and later that evening I bought him a pretzel and a frozen lemonade and called him a good man. I hope Brooks Conrad remembers, too.

“He’s done a good days work. Make a fire”
Good night again

haggard

December 14th, 2011
3:44 am

“Surhoff. not sure why that took a minute to remember ??”–nolie

Plus, B.J was a catcher at one time. Thought surely you’d remember on that account.

Andres

December 14th, 2011
3:52 am

what would make the most sense would be JJ and a prospect for A. Jones and a prospect

ncgary

December 14th, 2011
4:33 am

[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
5:44 am

DOB,You could have also have a title of Baseball is s Lottery Ticket if your name is E-4 I mean Brooks Conrad.He got two years of big league minimum plus two MLB merchandise checks putting his take to over a cool million the last two years.Not bad for a guy who is probably less talented than most greeters at Wal-Mart.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
6:17 am

Been saying all along that if ‘THE PASTOR’ was going to be ‘the’ experiment of 2012, BROOKSIE would have to go. Too bad. Thanx for the memories, the good ones thst is, and there were quite a few. Good luck to him and to the BRAVES in bringing in the right upgrade to be TYLER’s caddy. Good hunting Mr. WREN. Reel in a good one. HICKS is not the answer.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
6:19 am

Andres
December 14th, 2011
3:52 am

what would make the most sense would be JJ and a prospect for A. Jones and a prospect

WTF! LOL!

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
6:27 am

Slightly too early for beer, so I will opin on Brooksy, look we need a dude that can hit .250 or so. Is that really asking too much?

I like the guy, his grit and his toughness, but as a paying (and beer drinking) fan, I want a “standings” for at least one year, not a good “clubhouse” guy.

Sorry that I am being selfish. But heck, lets try to win games this year and then have fun, not the other way around……

Bring up Conrad

December 14th, 2011
6:59 am

BROOKS,
Good to have seen you do well in Atl!! Hope you may be able to work out something which will benefil you and the family! I’ll be watching for you!!! Bill Robinson…

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
7:05 am

nolie
December 14th, 2011
3:03 am

I hope they pass on Bourn if he wants what Bora$ will likely ask for

I’m not convinced that even the smell of knee-deep BORAS money would keep BOURN here. He certainly was not energized by the playoff run we had in 2011. Maybe it was the line-up behind him I don’t know, but his BA was in a steady decline during the course of the year.

Billy Walsh

December 14th, 2011
7:19 am

Its going to take a lot more than JJ and a prospect for A Jones

old man

December 14th, 2011
7:34 am

Baltimore has three top SS prospects (Machado, Givens, Schoop), but unsure any one of them is MLB ready in 2013. So trading Hardy is not a completely nutty idea for them. Is Hardy going to hit anywhere near 30 hrs again? Bill James has him down for 21, .760 ops.

Jeff R

December 14th, 2011
7:35 am

Moylan and Conrad, twas time to go. Not terribly surprised by Wren’s moves here.

Adam Jones. Not sure about a straight up for Jurrjens (I know, Jurrjens is damaged goods, etc.) Be interested to see if there where any other names in the mix (should those guys be the centerpieces of a deal).

Jeff R

December 14th, 2011
7:36 am

Hardy? Braves are going assume his contract dollars? I tend to doubt it.

Ray

December 14th, 2011
7:36 am

I like Adam Jones, the kid is a talent. IF we gave up JJ and another young arm maybe they would give up jones. He is strong defensively and can rake. DOB, do you think the Braves may make any moves towards any of the non-tendered guys?

old man

December 14th, 2011
7:44 am

Yep, Hardy is 7.0M, too rich for us I guess. My bad.

longtimefan

December 14th, 2011
7:46 am

DOB
Any chance you would list your top 50 or so tunes of the last 10-20 years?

Robert

December 14th, 2011
7:55 am

Don’t get me excited! I mentioned yesterday that the Braves would NEVER pay for a guy like Hardy! I would love to be wrong on that! Him and Jones would be an early Christmas present! But I’ve been burned by the Braves before, so I’m not counting my chickens here.

old man

December 14th, 2011
7:56 am

I know the Drew Stubbs thing is pretty dead, but he is such a tantalizing idea. If he just wouldn’t strikeout so dang much. League average is 20%. Last three years he has been 25%, 28%, 30%. Not a good trend. Oh well.

Rufus

December 14th, 2011
7:56 am

Brooksie is a class act and will be missed. I know his performance fell off in 2011 but guys like that who hustle and live/die on every pitch (mainly because their careers rise/fall on every pitch) are hard to come by. One of my favorite memories of him is standing next to my son on the Gwinnett field a couple years ago during the national anthem. I know he’d done it hundreds of times on other teams with other kids, but the picture of them standing together has always meant alot.

Good luck Brooksie, you will be missed by many here in Atlanta who remember how hard you played, the fun you had, and the great success you had. I hope your path and that of the Braves cross again soon.

Jeff R

December 14th, 2011
7:57 am

old man… This art, not science. Who knows? Wren could surprise about Hardy or anyone else. Might be right.

old man

December 14th, 2011
8:00 am

And with Stubb’s speed, striking out at the league average (i.e., putting the ball in play or walking an extra 10% of all plate appearances) would probably raise his AVG/OBP a ton. Maybe McCann can recommend an eye doctor.

STRETCH

December 14th, 2011
8:02 am

Hardy and Jones from the O’s? Man that would be a great deal for the Braves, but who am i kidding. The Braves are too cheap. They will probably sign Betencourt or worse.

bozz

December 14th, 2011
8:08 am

Enter your comments here

bozz

December 14th, 2011
8:09 am

“Not bad for a guy who is probably less talented than most greeters at Wal-Mart.”

Not sure how low on talent that makes you then, Mister Frisky.

old man

December 14th, 2011
8:12 am

Aren’t the O’s sort of up in the air at second base? Was Roberts injured the last two years? WAR of 1.4 and .2 in 2009 and 2010. Ouch! So are they the team we really match up with? They need pitching and a second baseman. Mega-trade of JJ and Prado and Venters, etc., for their JJ and Jones. We would add maybe a couple of million in salary, right?

Just dreamin’.

Jerry Blooger

December 14th, 2011
8:22 am

venters? are you stoned?

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
8:28 am

Ray: I don’t think any of the non-tendered guys has a lot of appeal to the Braves.

Lobosolo

December 14th, 2011
8:30 am

I’d bet that Brooks Conrad is a superior human being in every aspect than Mr. Frisky, most notably in plain old class… What a miserable existence your life must be, Prissy Frisky… at least we all can get a chuckle out of that…

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
8:37 am

“Not bad for a guy who is probably less talented than most greeters at Wal-Mart.”

Not sure how low on talent that makes you then, Mister Frisky.

Yeah, he’s something else, isn’t he? At this point, I think Frisky is reveling in being something of a caricature. Like a few others.

Dan Mohan

December 14th, 2011
8:41 am

I had rotator cuff surgery last January, it takes longer than six months to fully rehab it. Pulling for Peter Moylan but it will 9 months at best.

mantuan

December 14th, 2011
8:42 am

DOB: I loved your Mister Friskie and Najeh Davenpoop reposts. Thanks for reposting them. If you come boarding in CO this winter, holler up.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
8:43 am

Now that BROOKS is in our rear-view and RYAN THERIOT is a FA, I’m wondering if he’s in the BRAVES’ future.

JSS

December 14th, 2011
8:44 am

@ Najeh Davenpoop…
If you do a SEC EDGAR search, Liberty Media lists the Braves as ANLBC in their filings. Form 10-Q is where you start. You need all 4 quarters. From there you need to dig into the revenues and how they expense salaries. If you’ve got the time, the information is there but it will not be listed as individual salaries for a specific players. That is the beauty of having to report financials by “publicly traded companies.’ Good luck…

braveshoo

December 14th, 2011
8:44 am

I think this trade proposal is the first one I have seen that makes perfect sense. We give up a lot by trading JJ and Prado, and we need to get an excellent return. Both Jones and Hardy hit about .280, 25-30 HRs, and 80 RBIs. It will cost about 5m for Jones in arb. this year, and perhaps 7m next year. He is only 25 and is just coming into his own. He could be our LF or CF for a long time. Hardy is a definite upgrade offensively at SS, and he can move to 3rd when pasternicky or simmons are ready and Chipper has retired. Prado and JJ will cost about 10m total in arb. this year, and you probably cant keep JJ longterm because of Boras. The Os might have to throw in 2m in cash to make the trade revenue neutral, and we might have to throw in a minor pitching prospect to complete the deal. This could set us up to have a longterm outfield of Bourn, Jones, and Heyward if we resign Bourn and Jones longterm next year after more money frees up. We solve our problems shorterm at SS, and for the next 3 years at SS and 3rd, and we open up a spot in the rotation for one of our young phenoms. I like this potential trade a lot.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
8:48 am

Efrim

December 14th, 2011
8:51 am

Adam Jones is a career .275/.319/.437, 101 OPS+ hitter. If the Braves are offering Jurrjens and Prado, then the O’s would have to give Jones + a couple good prospects, in my opinion. Jones has been better the last three years: .281/.326/.455, 109 OPS+ in 1,758 plate appearances. Here is the Orioles Top 11 prospects from Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein:

Five-Star Prospects
1. Dylan Bundy, RHP
2. Manny Machado, SS
Four-Star Prospects
3. Jonathan Schoop, INF
Three-Star Prospects
4. Nick Delmonico, 3B
5. Jason Esposito, 3B
6. Robert Bundy, RHP
7. Parker Bridwell, RHP
8. Dan Klein, RHP
9. Ryan Adams, 2B
Two-Star Prospects
10. L.J. Hoes, OF
11. Eduardo Rodriguez, LHP

Dylan Bundy isn’t eligible and Manny Machado is going nowhere. Jonathan Schoop would have to come with Jones, imo. Played 2nd base this year but will most likely be a 3rd baseman long term. I still don’t think that’s nearly enough for Jurrjens and Prado, but that’s just my opinion.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
8:52 am

braveshoo:

Sounds plausible. We’ll see what Mr. WREN pulls off, hopefully sooner rather than later.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
8:53 am

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
8:54 am

nolie

December 14th, 2011
8:59 am

Bill James/Fielding Bible rank Jones very low as a defensive CFer the last three years. Hardy as average SS.
Braves will have absolutely no interest in a 7 million dollar shortstop, and his power will probably go down enough to make him a mediocre third baseman especially considering his low OBP.
That deal(Hardy & Jones) ain’t gonna happen, not should it.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:01 am

Scientists think they are getting closer to determining if the”God” particle. actually exists

Don

December 14th, 2011
9:02 am

IGNORE it all you want.
PRETEND IT DOESN’T EXIST all you want.
BUT there is an ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM that makes EVERYTHING ELSE MEANINGLESS
for the Braves.
Since Leo left as Pitching Coach six or seven years ago, almost EVERY STARTING PITCHER
has become INJURED.
You are NOT GOING TO WIN under those conditions no matter how good the hitting, the defense or
anything else.
Now, going into next season FOUR OUT OF THE FIVE starters are coming off injuries.
THREE of these are young pitchers (already established) who should have formed the core of a
great rotation for years to come.
And injuries to pitchers are not something that a pitcher always gets over and comes back to be great
the next season. These 3 young pitchers may NEVER BE GREAT AGAIN – thus adversely
effecting the Braves for YEARS TO COME.
And this is just the TIP OF THE ICEBERG. HOW MANY TOTAL Starting Pitchers (counting only
those who were in the rotation for a reasonable length of time) have the Braves had in the six or
seven years since Leo left; and HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE NOT BEEN INJURED????
HOW CAN THE BRAVES POSSIBLY IGNORE THIS??????.

JoeBrave

December 14th, 2011
9:02 am

Hardy, and Jones? yup that would be a trade to go with..

dap01

December 14th, 2011
9:03 am

Hardy and Jones are worth a steep price because they fit our needs. Hopefully Wren has something big like this up his sleeve.

McFann O O o

December 14th, 2011
9:07 am

Since Leo left as Pitching Coach six or seven years ago, almost EVERY STARTING PITCHER has become INJURED.

Must be BMac’s fault…

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:08 am

don’t any of y’all hold your breath until the Braves pick up Hardy :?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:09 am

Don and his pet elephant… ;)

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
9:09 am

Thanks for the work DOB.

Not too surprised about the Conrad move. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, but he is a spot on a roster.

Ralph

December 14th, 2011
9:11 am

If they trade Prado, who’s going to play 3rd base, Chipper won’t make it past April?

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
9:13 am

Cool link to the Marlins park DOB. I’m looking forward to seeing the completed stadium. I really enjoy the fact that every park in the majors is unique. It seems to make the game even more awesome than it already is.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
9:13 am

“Rosenthal and Morosi note that the Braves and Orioles have discussed a deal that included both Jurrjens and Prado”

Sounds like it’s in the past to me. Why did nothing come out of it with either team? What do I know though …

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:13 am

looks like a few more of them caricatures have shown up this am

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
9:15 am

From an earlier post:

When people on this blog say “Have Faith” and talk about the fans that critize the team and say that they are not real fans. Well to all of you fans I say that you are lazy and accept mediocrity. Infact even most of the writers in the area have “Drank the Kool-Aid” that Liberty Media has put out. They never call out and question “idiotic” moves. Wren is not a bad GM but when it comes to FA he is suspect at best. But you look at Liberty Media they always go with the cheapest solution and when they do spend money they play that player no matter what (ex. D.Lowe, McClouth, and Kawakami 1st 2 seasons). Look at the dumpster deals they have gone with Greg Norton, Joe Mather, Brooks Conrad, Troy Glaus (excluding May-June 10), Jesse Chavez, Melky Cabera, and Scott Proctor. And the “Blue Light Special” players that ate up payroll without contributing anything but playing them in spite of performance Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, Nate McClouth, Alex Gongalez, Uggla for the 1st half of the season and Derek Lee. But they kept running out those Payroll fatcats inspite of performance and not letting young talent have a chance. So this is exactly why the TRUE Brave fans are angry and QUESTION Liberty Media. Real fans need to complain more and to ask questions and not feel bad for doing so. Remember we choked up a 10.5 game lead with a month to go and NOTHING was done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE WANT THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now if the Adam Jones rumor is out there then expect the Braves to not make any deal for a good player. But we should complain and let our frustration known and to pressure Liberty Media to make changes.

WE WANT THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:18 am

we can banter all we want, but can’t really rule out anything happening.
wonder if Mark the Greek would be available in a deal that included both JJ & Prado?
Prolly not I guess

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
9:18 am

I still don’t think that’s nearly enough for Jurrjens and Prado, but that’s just my opinion

Glad to see your value level for JJ and Prado creeping up the scale. ( :

lexbrave

December 14th, 2011
9:18 am

Why do I have this bad feeling that Rollins will sign with another team and the Phillies will replace him with Hanley Ramirez?

@Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

December 14th, 2011
9:19 am

DOB,

I am complain about your snarky attitude, then I turn around and do the same, so for that I apologize.

My gripe is that, to say that you don’t know budget numbers so you won’t guess, seems like it goes against the purpose that the blog serves. That ‘purpose’ is debatable, I suppose. But, to me, you (and this comment is in no way sarcastic) should have the most knowledge of anyone covering this team outside of the inner circle because you are supposed to be in and around this clubhouse and front office, day in and day out, home and road.

So, to answer the question: how would you suggest we go about getting that number, Mr. Davenpoop?

Well, since by design, you should be able to venture the most educated guess by adding up what you know for sure and filling in the few variables with your best guess, you should have your best guess answer. If you qualify it with “this is my best guess, here is what they have committed, and here is what I beleive they have left” two things can happen. Knowing that the front office reads this and care (oh do they care) you will either miss that number by a long shot (too high and you raise expectations or too low and you wont give ubersensitive personnel enough credit) and someone, I truely believe, will nudge you closer to the truth. Or, the other possibility, is that you don’t hear squat and you are probably close enough to the number to make fair assements on what is possible through free agency and trades and salary additions.

But to say, we don’t know for sure so its not worth mentioning is crazy. If that were the case, there would be no need in anything from you other than game stories and profiles. I mean, you make educated guesses elsewhere, right?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:20 am

Well to all of you fans I say that you are lazy and accept mediocrity.

and I might say you are infantile and accept whining and crying as appropriate behavior.
It’s all in one’s perspective ;)

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
9:21 am

If they trade Prado, who’s going to play 3rd base,

This is a non-issue. In it’s level of importance for a potential trade, it is second to the bottom. The bottom should be CF for 2013. The fill-ins for Chipper the last three years have not been lighting the ball up. Prado, filling in at third has not been lighting the ball up. The level of production those subs have given at third when Chipper rests is easily replaceable. .. or it should be. But then, it has taken considerable amount of time for the Braves to find a back up short-stop.

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
9:24 am

Adam Jones… Interesting thought but I would have rather seen a guy with a high OBP. If the thinking is “It’ll be awesome to have Bourn and Jones at the top of the line up, creating havoc.” I will say that the majority of havoc will be wrought on the Braves for so few scoring opportunities and so many outs made. If those two could run like the wind and get on base at .360+. That would be havoc.

aBraveVol

December 14th, 2011
9:27 am

If we trade prado I would def. go after greg Dobbs to back up Chip. He would be a great bat off the bench and can spell for short periods on the corners in of OF if needed. I mean he had a .275/.311/.389 with eight homers last year of the fish. Plus he is a .259/.316/.430 hitter coming off the bench.

If I trade Prado, or even think I might trade Prado, then sign this guy yesterday

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
9:28 am

I’d also like to note my amazement at the Orioles. Nick Makarkis was the only Oriole to have an OBP above .328 last season… out of players who played with the Orioles and had 100+ PA. Lower that bar to all players receiving at least 20 PA and there is one guy who sandwiched between .328 and .351. He had a .333 OBP. Just terrible.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:29 am

I’m a fair believer in the Bill James site metrics and I’m not sure that I want a CF that they rank near the bottom. We went there once already with Nate…..

bravesgirlnc

December 14th, 2011
9:30 am

The Huddy link made me laugh this morning. I love that prank. Still makes me cry with laughter….gotta think there are more of those out there somewhere!

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:31 am

Ain’t it strange how I mentioned Adam Jones just this past season……

Always ahead of the curve :)

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
9:31 am

TennPaul, Braves get guys on all the time. Getting them in was the problem.

I keep reading OBP, yet all year it was nothing but complaints on how nobody would drive that guy in that seemingly got on base every inning.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
9:31 am

adam jones is an extremly overrated ballplayer. he doesnt play great defense, he is fast, but doesnt steal alot of bases, he doesnt get on base, and has moderate power.

jurrjens would be too much for him, thats for sure.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
9:33 am

Always ahead of the curve

…and ready to drive off the road. :-)

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:34 am

jurrjens would be too much for him, thats for sure…DAP

I agree that he is overrated and a healthy Jj would be too much, not so sure about that with his current lower trade value

RC

December 14th, 2011
9:34 am

I think Wren’s long term plan is to acquire Adam Jones, slap #25 on him, get drunk and try to pretend it’s the year 2000 while watching “A. Jones” patrol center field.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:34 am

don’t sprain your shoulder coach

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
9:35 am

@ Nolie your right it all in one’s perspective. But I think when you CHOKE a 10.5 GAME LEAD with a month to go then act as if its ok there is something wrong with that. But I guess you like seeing the Braves being mediocre, and if some fans are angry it puts a rain cloud on your sunny day. Well in the America if something sucks we complain and gripe and protest and have an extensive history in doing so, (have you ever read something on the Boston Tea Party). But you can accept 89-73 and allowing St. Louis to go to the play-offs and win it all but me and a heck of a lot of Braves fans are Pi$$edoff and are gonna keep complaining until something is done, and its our right to do so.

aBraveVol

December 14th, 2011
9:36 am

only drawing a walk 29 times in 567 PA’s this year does scare me a little. I would give up JJ or Prado for him because he would be an upgrade but no way i package them together unless I get alot more in return

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
9:36 am

I’m not buying all the “we need high OBP guys”. You guys can read your Bill James Handbooks and talk your metrics all you want, but I know what I saw (it was a UFO :lol: ) and I saw Brave players clogging the bases all year. Nobody drove them in was the problem. How about getting “clutch hitters”?

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
9:36 am

get drunk and try to pretend it’s the year 2000 while watching “A. Jones” patrol center field

Even Nick Cage couldn’t get that drunk.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:38 am

The Orioles play in the toughest division in the game, which is why they are where teams go to wipe their butt cheeks. So yes, until Baltimore develops dominant pitching they are baseball’s proverbial toilet.

Man am I gonna miss Brooksy. The little dude always brought his best to the field of play. Best of luck Conrad.

Moylan is coming back. I believe the Aussie is needed.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:39 am

with a 319 OBP there were no Braves players clogging any bases. and a higher OBP would also apply when there are men on base too dummy……..

Lew

December 14th, 2011
9:40 am

“WE WANT THE TRUTH”

Sounds like someone has been watching too many X Files re-runs. Where are Mudler and Scully when we need them? Bet they’d find out the salary level of a team that will spend as much or as little as they feel they should withpout taking some delicate psyches into account.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:40 am

I believe the Aussie is needed….coach

no question, he’s needed by all the lefthanded hitters in the NL. That 142 OPS+ makes them look like HOFers :?

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
9:41 am

@ Nolie the reason the Braves didn’t make any changes is because they (Liberty Media) think we are lazy and will just sit there and drink our iced tea and not complain. I just wish fair weathered fans like you would realized this and to stop letting Liberty Media insult your intelligence and demand a better product.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:42 am

it’s not like they really give a damn about what either of us do or say J-Man

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:44 am

ncscoots…………dumb as a box of rocks :)

Nelson Cruz would have been a Brave five years ago if I had my druthers. Dude went right through waivers and I screamed bloody murder. Nobody listened. Crickets chirped and I am as usual only right ninety percent of the time.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:45 am

the Nellie Cruz who caint hit worth a damn away from Texas? Yeah that’s about right coach, that’ll show everybody

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
9:45 am

@ Lew if your trying to say I watch x-files then your wrong the line I want the truth is from a Few good men staring Tom Cruise (pre scientology whack job) and Jack Nicholson, good movie you should watch man.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:46 am

nolie……….drunk and and still blogging.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
9:46 am

WE WANT THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RC

December 14th, 2011
9:49 am

Nelson Cruz would have been a Brave five years ago if I had my druthers. Dude went right through waivers and I screamed bloody murder. Nobody listened. Crickets chirped and I am as usual only right ninety percent of the time.

If he went through waivers, that means 28 other teams passed up the chance to acquire him also (not to mention the Rangers, who must have been willing to let him leave). He certainly would have been a great addition….but it’s not like that was a sure thing at the time, or else he would have gone to at least one of those 29 teams that aren’t the Rangers.

Bob the Blogger

December 14th, 2011
9:49 am

Yeah, I’ve had rotator cuff surgery too, and 6 months ain’t gonna cut it. My surgeon told me it was going to take a year to get 100%, and that was about right.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
9:49 am

You can’t handle the truth.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
9:49 am

Yeah – if Coach had his druthers, they would have Cruz right along with Luis Durango several years ago. Well, at least hey finally wised up and got Durango, right Coach?

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:50 am

nolie is referring to the Nelson Cruz and his BOOM STICK which hit 29 HR’s with 87 RBI in 2011, and O yea, EIGHT HR’s in the 2011 post saeason……E-I-G-H-T

There ya go dumb azz. Read it and keep drinking the cheap malt liquor.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:51 am

Lew, you fit right in with the other two retards.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
9:51 am

JMan – No, definitely X FIles in your case. But we know you’re out there, Dude.

RC

December 14th, 2011
9:52 am

Lew,

Luis Durango obviously falls into the “10% of the time” that Coach isn’t right.

60% of the time, it works EVERY time.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:53 am

RC, yep. A lot of people FUC*ED up big time. I wasn’t one of them.

RC

December 14th, 2011
9:54 am

Coach, that should be the first line of your cover letter when you send it to MLB teams looking for a front office job.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
9:54 am

Come on, guys, arguing with Coach is like dueling with an unarmed man. A righteous man just doesn’t do that sort of thing. Let him be.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
9:54 am

RC – Kind of like I’ve been trying for 37 years to convince my wife – I’m always right – most of the time.

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

December 14th, 2011
9:55 am

I’m out. There are better things to do than exchange pleasantry’s with the local water cooler crowd.

Voice of Harold

December 14th, 2011
9:56 am

Kudos to Lew, nolie, and ncscoots for continuing to hold it down here a the Braves/MiB blog. You’re princes among men for tolerating the likes of J-Man, Don, Coach, et al. Funny how every time a “Paul Lentz” drops off, a “J-Man” pops up to take his place. It’s like there is some sort effed-up secret blog cult out there, determined to infiltrate every seemingly innocuous blog with mindless drivel. Where do they come from? How do they hold down a job for more than a week or two without being thrown to the curb by their fellow workers? Fascinating…

Lew

December 14th, 2011
9:57 am

Well, 0ne looney down. So many more to go.

RC

December 14th, 2011
9:57 am

I still contend that would be an awesome first line of a cover letter, resume, or in an interview.

“A lot of people F***ED up big time. I wasn’t one of them.”

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
9:58 am

nolie, go take you another nap. Sounds like you’re getting senile already. It reallly does. Either that or you’re bi-polar. Go to a good doctor and fix yourself … dummy.

RC

December 14th, 2011
9:58 am

Or if you are ever asked to testify for something. Would have been a great opening for Selig when Congress wanted to know about steriods in baseball.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
9:59 am

RC – Well, Trump would like it.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
9:59 am

don’t hafta be drunk to read his splits and see how mediocre he is away from home coach, and with the silly things you always come up with you really shouldn’t be talking about anybody else being drunk

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:02 am

take a brain pill Brian….

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:03 am

Some of the greatest questions of all time-

Why are we here and where do we come from?

What is the meaning of life?

Are the Mayans right and Dec. 21, 2012 is the end of the earth?

Is there really any gold at Fort Knox?

What happened to the dinosaurs?

What’s on TV tonight?

What is the Braves’ real payroll?

And for Honorable Mention, BIll Cosby’s immortal question – Why is there air?

What’s on TV tonight?

Tomahawkin

December 14th, 2011
10:04 am

TnBrian

“nolie, go take you another nap. Sounds like you’re getting senile already. It reallly does. Either that or you’re bi-polar. Go to a good doctor and fix yourself … dummy.”

Ouch

Tomahawkin

December 14th, 2011
10:06 am

I do Like The idea of going after Adam Jones or JJ hardy…They fit the void a lot better than the previous Slop (Willingham, C. Ross, L. Scott, etc) that has been mentioned on here…

With that said I still think that Wren will stand pat until S. Training

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:06 am

nah coach. I’m talking about the Nellie Cruz who has a career line of .236 .293 .432 .726 away from Texas. 726 sux for a first baseman, plus the guy caint stay on the field. has never played more than 128 games in one season.

Canadian Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:07 am

Mr. O’Brien I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it on this blog recently, but you are an excellent writer! Your blogs flow and are interesting to read. I have been following this blog for a few years now and it is refreshing to see a sports writer who takes pride in his craft, as well as his information.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
10:07 am

We need DOB to come on here and set nolie straight again. Boy did he burn your ass old timer. Yes, you got burned. Guess he finally had enough of your smart ass mouth, know-it-all BS too.

You can bash my posts all you want and even give me pointers, but to calll somebody dummy or whatever is childish and chicken sh** since I can’t stand face to face. That’s a quick punch to the nose right there.

Coxie

December 14th, 2011
10:07 am

I’d love to work a deal with the White Sox for Quentin and Beckham. Quentin has showed he can put up monster numbers (2008 – .288, 36, 100, .965 OPS) although his last 3 years haven’t quite reached the bar he set in his first full season. Becks is a local guy (Westminster and UGA) and even though his numbers have declined the last 2 seasons his potential is sky high. Plus, he can play SS in addition to 2B and 3B.

I wouldn’t pay the farm to make this deal happen, but I’d definitely consider a package built around JJ or Beachy and an arm or two outside of our top 5 studs. Don’t think we match up well with the Sox, at least that’s what I’ve read, but I’d be a fan of this deal!

And for the love of god Wren, please sign Bourn. He is the true lead-off hitter we’ve lacked since losing Furcal. There aren’t many guys like this…plays solid D, gets on base, and is a threat to steal every base in front of him while distracting the pitcher from fully concentrating on the batter. We need someone in our lineup who’s capable of turning a walk into a triple, it’d be nice to lock him up for another 5.

POTENTIAL LINEUP
1 Bourn CF
2 Beckham SS
3 Chipper 3B
4 McCann C
5 Uggla 2B
6 Freeman 1B
7 Quentin LF
8 Heyward RF

This lineup with our SP and bullpen would have some great potential and be fun to watch! Here’s to hoping something good happens…

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:07 am

oh yeah Tomahawkin an insult from Brian is really ouch worthy………

VABravesFan

December 14th, 2011
10:09 am

Adam Jones is a great player – if the Braves can get him they should. He could share jerseys with Chipper!

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:09 am

oh stuff it brian, you insult me all the time, and as for the facts of the argument DOB did not burn me. the fact that he got snarky was not proof that he was correct. What I said was exactly the triuth.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
10:10 am

Short of Markakis coming over, there’s nothing the O’s have that is worth BOTH JJ and Prado.

Maybe JJ and specs for Jones, but not both of them…

Also, maybe someone can explain this to me….who are these “most” that thought Conrad was a lock for 2012? AND why does one who hit around .210 and can’t even get on the field defensively because he doesn’t know what a glove is think he’s a sure thing for a job?

beachcomber

December 14th, 2011
10:11 am

Lew – I don’t have much time to post anymore (retirement will do that to you) but saw your posts this morning and wanted to wish you happy holidays. I send this from my wife’s home office proudly adorned with your Sid/Skip drawing among other Braves mementos – although none more meaningful than than your work.Thanks again.

And kudos to whoever posted the name Gene Woodling – there’s a name you don’t see on blogs very often.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
10:11 am

@ Lew I’m definately out there man, in fact I’m glad to be that way. But theres a method to my madness bro. Lets get to the core to all of my statements and that is The Braves choked a 10.5 game lead with a month to go……..right. Ok, now why did they blow that big of a lead?
#1. reason is Fredi Gonzalez plain and simple, he burned out the Pen, he benched Constanza when he was still hitting around .350. He kept pitching Derek Lowe every 5th day despite his awful ERA and performances, and had 4 ELITE prospects to pitch in his space, yet still pitched him on the last game of the season and of coursed got drummed again.
Now I know we got rid of Parrish, McClouth and D Blowe but the main reason for that choke job is still penciled in as the manager. Also with 5 mi we saved by getting rig of Lowe, 7 mil on KK, 3mil on Alex Gonzalez, and 7 mil on McClouth, we should have been able to have signed someone to help. Also with Hudson, Hanson, Beechy, Medlin, Terehan, Minor,Vizcaino, Delgado and JJ Hoover in the minors we have an abundance of starting pitching and Jurrjens is quite frankly expandable, considering that JJ has lost 4 MPH on his fastball and has knee and back problems and is a Boras client is all the more reason to trade him for help……….But wait for it…………..WE DID NOTHING!!!!! and thats my point, we did nothing when this team is so close and needs just a few pieces to become elite and that what frustrates me. We have the chance to win the NL (Howard is hurt and probably be out til July, Pujols is gone, Fielder will be on another team and Braun will miss the 1st 50 games of next year) Its right there for us to win and go back to the World Series but Liberty Media is being so cheap, their cutting off their nose to spite their face in other words. Thats why I’m angry

Tomahawkin

December 14th, 2011
10:12 am

TnBrian

“We need DOB to come on here and set nolie straight again. Boy did he burn your ass old timer. Yes, you got burned. Guess he finally had enough of your smart ass mouth, know-it-all BS too.

You can bash my posts all you want and even give me pointers, but to calll somebody dummy or whatever is childish and chicken sh** since I can’t stand face to face. That’s a quick punch to the nose right there.”

OUCH

Damn, I Felt That One Here in Stone Mountain!

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:13 am

beachcomber – Thanks Buddy – wondered where you’ve been. Any time on the art work – glad you’re enjoying it and hope you and your family have a great Holiday Season, as well.

RC

December 14th, 2011
10:13 am

If the rumors of a trade with Balitmore DO get stronger, I’m still going to hold my breath until the deal if official. Angelos is notorious for overrulling deals that his GM makes due to the fact that he doesn’t want to let a player go.

Remember a few years back when we supposedly traded Marcus Giles and Adam LaRoche for Brian Roberts? Angeloed!

Murph

December 14th, 2011
10:13 am

I’ll take Jones for JJ, no question about it. The guy is 25 and, after a quick glance at his stats, it appears he’s headed in the right direction. Would be nice to get a guy who is trending upwards rather than the other direction.

Not so sure I’d do a JJ/Prado for Jones deal, though. That would leave a big gap when Chipper hits the DL. Unfortunately, with JJ and Prado’s injury histories, it might just take both to get a deal done.

What to do, what to do? I know…

Prado and JJ for Adam Jones and Jonathan Schoop. Schoop is a promising 3B prospect who could be a little bit of insurance in case The Terd comes back down to earth.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:15 am

Woodling was an Oriole back when I first became a fan of theirs. good career, had a very good OBP for back in those days.
Met him in the 60s when I went to his horse farm to look at a few Appaloosa foals. Very nice down to earth guy. Had some nice horses too

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
10:15 am

@ Lew I’m definately out there man, in fact I’m glad to be that way. But theres a method to my madness bro. Lets get to the core to all of my statements and that is The Braves choked a 10.5 game lead with a month to go……..right. Ok, now why did they blow that big of a lead?
#1. reason is Fredi Gonzalez plain and simple, he burned out the Pen, he benched Constanza when he was still hitting around .350. He kept pitching Derek Lowe every 5th day despite his awful ERA and performances, and had 4 ELITE prospects to pitch in his space, yet still pitched him on the last game of the season and of coursed got drummed again.
Now I know we got rid of Parrish, McClouth and D Blowe but the main reason for that choke job is still penciled in as the manager. Also with 5 mil we saved by getting rid of Lowe, 7 mil on KK, 3mil on Alex Gonzalez, and 7 mil on McClouth, we should have been able to have signed someone to help. Also with Hudson, Hanson, Beechy, Medlin, Terehan, Minor,Vizcaino, Delgado and JJ Hoover in the minors we have an abundance of starting pitching and Jurrjens is quite frankly expandable, considering that JJ has lost 4 MPH on his fastball and has knee and back problems and is a Boras client is all the more reason to trade him for help……….But wait for it…………..WE DID NOTHING!!!!! and thats my point, we did nothing when this team is so close and needs just a few pieces to become elite and that what frustrates me. We have the chance to win the NL (Howard is hurt and probably be out til July, Pujols is gone, Fielder will be on another team and Braun will miss the 1st 50 games of next year) Its right there for us to win and go back to the World Series but Liberty Media is being so cheap, their cutting off their nose to spite their face in other words. Thats why I’m angry.

RC

December 14th, 2011
10:15 am

Short of Markakis coming over, there’s nothing the O’s have that is worth BOTH JJ and Prado.

What if it’s Jones AND Hardy? (I dunno I’d like that trade or not…but it does fill the holes nicely)

Tomahawkin

December 14th, 2011
10:16 am

@Murph

“Not so sure I’d do a JJ/Prado for Jones deal, though. That would leave a big gap when Chipper hits the DL. Unfortunately, with JJ and Prado’s injury histories, it might just take both to get a deal done.”

Co-Sign!

I would only do Double J because he is a Bor@ sshole Client, Keep Martini because he is more versitile

Trade only one of the 2, not both and we will prolly have to throw in a pitching prospect in that deal as well

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:16 am

like I said Tomahawkin, it don’t hurt when a dummy like you or Brian does it

RC

December 14th, 2011
10:18 am

Being reported that Blue Jays, Rockies, Cardinals, and two “unnamed teams” are interested in Beltran. DOB, any idea if the Braves are one of the unnamed teams?

(If you don’t know it’s fine…I know you can only ask the questions, can’t force someone to give you answers)

DAP

December 14th, 2011
10:19 am

when you realize adam jones isnt that good of a CFer, and is probably more of a corner outfielder, his .275/.319/.437 career slash line looks even worse.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
10:19 am

You can bash my posts all you want and even give me pointers, but to calll somebody dummy or whatever is childish and chicken sh** since I can’t stand face to face. That’s a quick punch to the nose right there.

Or in your case, a quick hair pull and scratch followed by an epic slap fight that will go down in history as the gayest of all time.

Please, nobody likes an interweb tough guy.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:19 am

would be nice JC but I bet not. He will want a top end higher than they will pay more than likely

gcs

December 14th, 2011
10:20 am

Two class acts. I am sorry to see them go but these were the right moves.
Good luck Brooksy and Moylan.

.

Trader Frank

December 14th, 2011
10:21 am

Great blog DOB. I hope something is in the works to get possibly a LF & SS. Fans like myself might seem unreasonable but if you have a good team like the Braves with only two holes why wouldn’t you go ahead and get those two pieces to be the best team you can be ? That’s all ‘m saying.

Pearl Jam songs ? Jeremy,Ledbetter,Evenflow,Wishlist are my favorites along with Black. I also loved the song Hunger Strike by Temple Of The Dog (Eddie Vedder sung it).

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:22 am

Dude – You’re angry? Seriously? Over a baseball team not having made any moves YET?

World hunger is a reason to get angry. Losing a loved one to a senseless accident is definitely a reason for anger. Inequality throughout all of humanity is a reason. So is what banking institutions did to the common people. But a MLB team not having made any moves yet?

OK. Whatever. Guess it takes all kinds. You’re right about one thing, though – that’s pretty much out there all right.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
10:23 am

RC-

And why is everyone now back to thinking Pastor isn’t going to be the SS?

IF we were gonna do that, why not just trade Prado, keep JJ and go get Beltran and make the team better?

I believe when its been said now that Pastor is the man.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
10:24 am

I know something if you disagree with the way Liberty Media has run the Braves then Nolie, Lew, and the Voice of Harold will all get sand in their vagina lol just kidding people well except to the Voice of Harold that guy is a walking Vagina with a mullet lol

Murph

December 14th, 2011
10:25 am

The Orioles have 3 3B prospects in their top 10 and, well, we could use a little depth at that position given that our best current option post-Chipper is a guy named The Terd.

Keep in mind when evaluating any possible trades that both JJ and Prado lost significant time last season due to injuries. Not just a week or two, but months spent on the DL. As much as I like them both, I’m also realistic in knowing what their injury history does to their value.

It’s like when you shop for a new car. When the dealer is evaluating your trade in, one of the first questions they ask is if it’s been in any accidents. The car may look like a million bucks, but a past accident could mean that there’s underlying issues with the car that aren’t apparent at first glance. Issues that could cost the car owner a lot of time and money down the road.

I wouldn’t pay full price for a car that had been in a head-on collision but fixed up to look like new. Would you?

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:25 am

Lentz or Lou/Earl?

Trader Frank

December 14th, 2011
10:27 am

I do think adding Prado to Jurrgens to trade for Adam Jones is too much.

Trader Frank

December 14th, 2011
10:27 am

Michael Young wants out of Texas because they want him to only DH.

Trader Frank

December 14th, 2011
10:31 am

And in Chipper’s (car) case, he’s been in too many wrecks (injuries) and is totaled !

Richie

December 14th, 2011
10:32 am

Please no Carlos Quentin, geez!

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:32 am

there is a reason that they want him to DH TF, he ranks near the bottom defensively every where he plays at this point

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:32 am

Murph – Prado had an infection from sliding on the grass. Jurrjens because he needed a knee brace.

A car is not totaled over a fender bender. Neither are Jurrjens or Prado on ready for the car crusher.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
10:32 am

@ Lew …….yea you damn right I’m angry and to throw world hunger and tragic accidents to avoid the actual subject of the Braves choking up a 10.5 game lead is a little callus. In case you don’t know this is a Braves Blog not a Newsweek Blog. And don’t act like there isnt little things that don’t get you angry, dont give me this holier than thou stuff. Everybody has pet peeves or gets annoyed or angry at little things (I know your response will be…..Huh Huh well your right because I get annoyed at you Huh Huh) But you can keep being self-rightous.

gcs

December 14th, 2011
10:33 am

Pearl Jam sucks

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
10:34 am

nolie, sticks and stones ……… go f*** yourself! As lonely as you seem to be, you probably do that all day long.

O.J.

December 14th, 2011
10:34 am

Who is this Jurrjgens fellow?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:34 am

Toe jam sux worse……

DAP

December 14th, 2011
10:35 am

prado for adam jones would be too much. jurrjens for adam jones would be too much. the orioles can overvalue adam jones if they want, but wren doesnt need to act like he’s one of the game’s great young CFers. he isnt.

nick markakis would be a pretty good target if we are looking for a LFer.

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
10:36 am

When the Braves are fighting it out for 3rd place I’m sure the first thing that will come to everyones mind will be we really should have kept Conrad.Don’t know what Fredo will do late in the game without a 230 hitter who cant field.Let’s see where Conrad ends up.I’m sorry about the Wal-Mart comment.Target is probably more like it.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:36 am

JMan (or is it Paul or Lou/Earl) – Whatever. You’re just another malcontent with a forum for showing his anal nature. Rant all you want about inconsequentialities and things you have no control over. Call us names for pointing out your obsessive-compulsive diatribes. All it does is to point out how reactioanary and immature you are. But, then again – you’re not the first and you won’t be the last to litter the blog with your bovine excrement. Pardon us as we step around your piles..

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:37 am

dummy dummy dummy. don’t barge in with insults when the discussion has nothing to do with you jerk.
I’m supposed to ignore that nasty post and make sweet ant and nice? you got the wrong guy if you think that is gonna happen

Juan

December 14th, 2011
10:38 am

OJ…Jurrjgens is the Son of the SOAP Empire

Voice of Harold

December 14th, 2011
10:38 am

Nah, J-Man. I reserve my anger for things other than baseball, much like Lew. I love the game. I figure you do, too, if you’re on this blog in mid-December. But the game is bigger than Liberty Media or Frank Wren or the current Braves roster. Good luck with the anger management.

Ted

December 14th, 2011
10:39 am

I’m going to agree with Najeh here. If you’re a “journalist”, then you should have the ability to do SOME level of basic research. And as this is an informal blog, providing a “guess” is OK as long as you’re clear.

So, to help you out, here’s what 5 minutes spent at Cot’s and MLB Trade Rumors provides:

Braves current 2012 commitments – app. $63.1MM. This covers 7 players (Chipper, Uggla, McCann, Hudson, Diaz, Ross, Hinske) and Lowe. This doesn’t include arb-eligible players or pre-arb guys.

There are 4 arb-eligible players currently on the roster (Bourn, Prado, JJ and O’Flaherty). MLB Trade Rumors (courtesy of Matt Swartz) shows projections of Bourn – $7.3MM, Prado – $4.4MM, JJ – $5.1MM and O’Flaherty – $2.6MM. Total of $19.4MM. This brings total to $82.5MM for 11 players.

There are 9 pre-arb guys likely to make the 25 man (Heyward, Hanson, Medlen, Venters, Kimbrel, Beachy, Freeman, Minor and C. Martinez). If Fish, Pastornicky and Varvaro are added, that’s 12 total and using $500K each, a total of $6MM. This brings the total to $88.5MM for 23 players.

2011 salary obligations were $91.0MM. Wren has stated that payroll in 2012 would be a little higher. Let’s just say $92MM.

That leaves app. $3.5MM for a veteran SS back-up and an OF who can play CF. That’s not a lot and is even less if one or more of Fish, Pastornicky and Varvaro are replaced with “veteran” options costing even more than base minimum.

Now, was that so hard? No. Is it a guess? Yes. But this guess clearly shows that UNLESS the Braves trade both Prado and JJ and back-fill one of their roster spots with another pre-arb guy (such as Teheran or Delgado for JJ), all those fans clamoring for a $14MM Hanley or Rollins or even an $8MM Cuddyer/Willigham are fooling themselves.

And it is a guess that even you can make instead of simply saying “they don’t tell me the number” and then trying to pretend you’ve done your job as a journalist. No team gives a clear indicator of payroll and no team gives specific details on how they budget. But that shouldn’t stop you from taking what information IS out there and giving at least an educated guess.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
10:40 am

Lew, JJ has a bad axle, and Prado is a glorified kit car put together by a guy who got a B- in shop. He does the job, most of the time, but has a lot of issues that keep him off the road every year.

Both guys are good and help the team get where it needs to go, most of the time, but when pushed into the red they have a tendency to break down.

That’s it for car analogies for me.

VABravesFan

December 14th, 2011
10:40 am

Jurjenns and a pitching prospect (J.J. Hoover or similar) for Adam Jones. Keep Prado as a superutility player who can fill in at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and LF when needed. Imagine the lineup:

1. Bourn
2. Chipper
3. McCann
4. Uggla
5. Adam
6. Freeman
7. Heyward
8. Pastornicky

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:40 am

more caricatures…….

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:42 am

might be ok if Jones could field worth a damn anymore

Richie

December 14th, 2011
10:43 am

Couldn’t the Braves trade for Jones and sign like Betemit or DeRosa to fill in at 3B for Chipper

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:44 am

yes they could though I think DeRo would be risky

DAP

December 14th, 2011
10:45 am

VABravesFan Jurjenns and a pitching prospect (J.J. Hoover or similar) for Adam Jones.

overpay. y’all have got to be kidding me. i cant believe there is so much support for a player like adam jones.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:46 am

grass is always greener I guess DAP :?

@Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

December 14th, 2011
10:46 am

Thanks for the bloggage, Ted. Seriously serious. That is almost to the number what I came up with, thinking that without trading JJ or Prado, that the Braves would have maybe 4M to use toward two spots. Establishing that gives you a bit better prespective on what is possible. If Prado/JJ are gone, that is, what, maybe 9.5M to add? Again, it all is guesswork, especially with the possible upswing in budget.

Mike

December 14th, 2011
10:47 am

DOB.

Do you think that if after Yu Davish gets signed, there will be alot more offers for JJ and Prado too?

Murph

December 14th, 2011
10:47 am

Adam Jones hit 25 hr last season with a slash line of .280/.318/.466. He cooled off in September, though, and was as high as .299/.337/.494 in late August.

He’s big, he’s fast, and as I noted earlier, he’s trending in the right direction. I have a hard time justifying JJ and Prado for just him, but should the Orioles throw in one of their 3B prospects I’d have a hard time saying no if I were Wren.

O.J.

December 14th, 2011
10:47 am

I am all for Betemit, I still dont think we should have given up on him back then

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:48 am

I’m doubting we will see any upswing in budget, but one can hope……

JoeFan

December 14th, 2011
10:49 am

Baseball is indeed a business just like all other professional sports. Fans need to get a clue that most owners, not all, are about what falls to the bottom line. Professional sports are strictly for entertainment value and fans can choose to support or not. The Braves are hoping and gambling that in 2012 all the stars align and their holes and weaknesses magically disappear. Otherwise it will be a losing year in the standings and at the gate.

Lollygagger

December 14th, 2011
10:49 am

has Hardy ever played 3B? Perhaps could the Braves view him as someone who could step in at 3B after Chipper retires and be used as a bridge to Terdo or whoever they feel is 3B of the future?

@Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

December 14th, 2011
10:50 am

But I keep hoping that if it is guessed here in print, that, in turn, Braves management will come in and set the record straight and then finally we would have an answer. And its not like the franchise is going to be able to get bent over this paper having to make an educated guess. They are the ones forcing that guess. And yes I am aware that there is no salary cap. THAT IS WHY THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION. If there were no salary cap, there would be no real need in discussing this. This is not idle speculation that leads to a free agent coming, not coming to ATL. This is an important issue to this fanbase.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
10:51 am

May be a trade with the Orioles … for Reimold/Andino. Not no Jones/Hardy. Not the way those Orioles were talking last winter about Jones and he’s even improving a little with age.

Sorry, I don’t buy it at all. Just another floating rumor that gives the blog something to maunch on for a few weeks. It’ll be shot down soon though I think.

Russell Bell

December 14th, 2011
10:51 am

World hunger is a reason to get angry.

I would’ve gone with human over-population.

Wonder if there’s a way to kill two birds with one stone…

DAP

December 14th, 2011
10:51 am

murph, if he were a good centerfielder, it would be a little different. but adam jones is more like a corner outfielder, and just doesnt hit enough. chances are really good prado outhits him next season, and you want to trade prado AND jurrjens for him? its just crazy.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
10:52 am

russell bell I would’ve gone with human over-population.

no such thing, and there is evil behind the claim.

HomeofdaBrave

December 14th, 2011
10:54 am

I still rather the Braves trade Prado than Jurrjens.

RC

December 14th, 2011
10:54 am

DeRo’s wrists are finished. I heard an analyst talking about him yesterday saying that all of last season he hit TWO fly balls to the left side of the field. He simply can’t turn on the ball like he used to, completely sapping his power.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:55 am

no overpopulation, and even the thought is evil huh? interesting take on the subject

RC

December 14th, 2011
10:56 am

I still rather the Braves trade Prado than Jurrjens.

I think in a vacuum I’d rather have Jurrjens, but given the current makeup of the Braves and the replacements they have in place, it’ll be a lot easier for the Brave the replace Jurrjens than Prado.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:56 am

I’d rather they trade neither unless the get more talent and fit than what we’ve been hearing so far

DAP

December 14th, 2011
10:57 am

thats right nolie.

RC

December 14th, 2011
10:58 am

has Hardy ever played 3B? Perhaps could the Braves view him as someone who could step in at 3B after Chipper retires and be used as a bridge to Terdo or whoever they feel is 3B of the future?

That’s a really interesting idea. I don’t think he has played 3b, and he’s supposedly a pretty good defensive SS, but as a plan B in case they can’t move him next year it’s not bad at all.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:58 am

not a subject to debate here anyway

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
10:59 am

RC-

Agree….much easier to replace JJ than Prado….

If we had a powerful offense, it’d be the other way around, but we don’t.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
10:59 am

Why exactly, is at such an IMPORTANT QUESTION?

If you knew the answer, would you be any more likely to attend games? To watch them on TV? Would you like the team any better, the players they have or the total product they put on the field?

Will the quality of your life improve? Help you feed your family or to determine if you can afford to buy Christmas presents for your neices and nephews?

Would it make you feel better about how much they DO spend if you knew to the penny what tht figure was?

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
11:00 am

for those curious, Baseball-Reference.com’s “similarity score” players most similar to Adam Jones through age 25: 1. Dave Winfield, 2. Reggie Smith, 3. Chili Davis, 4. Gary Matthews. (Jones turned 26 in August)

Murph

December 14th, 2011
11:00 am

chances are really good prado outhits him next season

If I play one game and go 3 for 4, then get amoebic dysentery and am out the rest of the season, chances are my slash line will look better than yours at the end of the year. So, while Prado may end up with better averages than Jones, I doubt that he’ll end up with better production as a whole.

Given that the Braves have publicly stated that they are looking for a LF bat, and Jones, by all accounts on this board, is better suited to play LF, doesn’t that make him a good fit? With the money coming off the books after next season couldn’t the Braves still either sign Bourn to a reasonable extension or fill CF from outside the organization?

Like I said, I certainly wouldn’t trade JJ and Prado for only Jones, but I’d also be realistic given their injury history as to who I could get for them.

I’m not a huge Jones fan and only really know as much about him as I can gather from baseball-reference dot com, but he seems like a good young outfielder who swings a big bat and is improving at the dish.

I’ll take that.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:01 am

I’m having Nate flashbacks with Adam Jones for some reason.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
11:01 am

Hardy has only playeed SS at the major league level – didn’t check out minor league info.

Lollygagger

December 14th, 2011
11:02 am

RC-
Essentially, they might be viewing Hardy as a bridge at SS next season and then a bridge at 3B in 2013 and then after that maybe a utility guy much like Prado is now. Just thinkin out loud…

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
11:03 am

Hey DOB,I’m a fan of yours and respect your work and especially your tolerance on the blog.It’s a slow news cycle where the Braves are concerned.Don’t think my comments or opinion of Conrad are more egregious than that steamer you float out every few months about Mark Cuban or someone of his stature buying the Braves.

Tomahawkin

December 14th, 2011
11:03 am

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
10:34 am
“nolie, sticks and stones ……… go f*** yourself! As lonely as you seem to be, you probably do that all day long.”

OUCH!

Well Said! The dude has nothing better else to do than belittle other posters on here who disagree with him

Ted

December 14th, 2011
11:04 am

To me, JJ for Jones straight up is fair:

Jones has been worth 10 WAR total in his career, plays CF (we need a CF back-up), is under control for 2 more seasons and will cost about the same as JJ.

JJ has been worth 12 WAR in his career, is under is under control for 2 more seasons and will cost about the same as Jones.

Jones, due to defense, is better than Prado as an OF. But Prado, as a 2B, is worth a lot more than Jones as a LF. I wouldn’t make that deal straight up, as a result. And, even with the knee injury, JJ was worth 3.8 WAR last year – higher than anything Jones has done.

Plain and simple – a quality SP is rarer than a quality OF. With both under team control for only two seasons, there’s no advantage and this also means that Braves would still need a long-term answer in CF (though by 2014 Lipka may be ready).

But for the knee, JJ should command more than Jones. As it is, with our SP depth and need to upgrade the OF and get CF insurance, a 1-for-1 swap seems fair. If they want more, then pass. If we can get more, then even better.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:04 am

7 mil per is a pretty expensive bridge for three years IMO

DAP

December 14th, 2011
11:04 am

nolie, thats true…not sure which rule it would violate, but im sure it would.

Bobby Hill

December 14th, 2011
11:04 am

Why not send Pastornicky to the O’s as part of the deal. He’s exactly the type of player a rebuilding team should be looking for. He’s young, cheap, and MLB ready. Its risky for the Braves to go into the season with him as their starter because Atlanta has legitimate playoff hopes. Baltimore would not be taking on any such risk.

In regards to Simmons, I don’t think you decide not to acquire an MLB shortstop now because you’ve got a prospect that might be ready in 2 years. At some point the current Braves’ roster will get too expensive and the team will have to spend some time rebuilding. Its inevitable. But right now the team is within a window of contending. It just doesn’t make sense to cut corners this year when the team is very close, but not quite ready to take on the Phillies.

Hardy just signed an extension with the O’s during the 2011 season. He wanted to stay in Baltimore. It seemed like an odd move for a guy in the prime of his career, to sign with a non-contender without even testing the market. Maybe be just like Baltimore?

Hillbilly

December 14th, 2011
11:04 am

Lew, I was just checking that. Hardy has only played SS at the minor and major league level. Not even one game anywhere else other than DH.

Seattle Braves

December 14th, 2011
11:05 am

This is exactly what the Braves need. Yes, Third Place here we come.

More and more the days go by with Frank Wren and Liberty Media. The more I lose hope, respect, and being a fan of the Atlanta Braves. Im sick of this Duo and them riding the coat tails of the magnificent 14 divisional run in the 90’s to 00’s. They are banking that are the loyal fans from this era will still be chanting, tomahawking, and remenising of years past. I cannot fathom a Braves organization that will not risk one of its top 5 pitching prospects to gain a bat. Risk vs Reward!

There are two types of GM’s/Owners that follow a certain formula to achieve profitable wealth year after year. This also answers the question of why you see the same teams in the playoffs year after year aswell.

1. An Organization looking at young talent and short term veterans to achieve a winning season. Making economical trades, adding low value free agents for back ups and platooning, and not signing high end free agents or making big money trades for players who are about to make arbitration or more money for a certain position. Rely highly on their prospects and rookies, instead of proven veterans looking for a multi year deal. These organizations feel like its a bonus to make the Playoffs and it dosent matter if they make it to the WS or not. But its a bigger bonus if they do. These Clubs have a cap or a low payroll and look to drop it further if possible for a higher profit at the other end of the spectrum.

2. Organizations that spend to win, and the main goal is to win the WS for a huge profitable wealth. These clubs are willing to trade furture talent to get what they need now to win. By doing so, if younger talent becomes an all-star, by using the formula they go by they could easily trade or sign them back into thier organization years later. These Organizations put more money back into the club, have a high payroll, and a cutthroat attitude about getting want they want. High Risk equals High Reward, and these clubs do it so well.

Hopefully you enjoyed my rant. Can you guess where our beloved Braves fall into? 90’s Braves with Ted Turner at the helm is a no brainer, but with Liberty Media and Frank Wren. Where do they belong now????

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:05 am

Got to remind yourself that Nate was supposed to be a 20/20 guy, or that’s what we were reading when he was on his way here. Jones doesn’t steal bases and though he has power, his K:BB ? … yucky

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
11:05 am

@ Lew/ Voice of Harold, you call me reactionary but you react to my reactionary responses. Thats a little oxymoronic (hey I can use overelaborate words also but I dont need to look them up in google like you lol). I mean for you to claim that your not reactionary then you react to my posts, But to quote an 1980 Saturday morning America legend (who later got caught in a movie theater playing with his pocket fisherman) “I know you are, But what am I”?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:06 am

Well Said! The dude has nothing better else to do than belittle other posters on here who disagree with him

sounds like a pretty hypocritical post there , especially considering all the outright lies you spread on facebook

Lew

December 14th, 2011
11:09 am

Bobby Hill – Rebuilding? Where did you come up with THAT determination?

Next year the Braves could have as much as $30 million coming off of payroll and they have five or so young pitchers who are highly thought of (by all of MLB, not just a few fans) that won’t even go to arbitration for another three or so years – much less be eligible for Free Agency. Add to that the fact they have numerous middle infield prospects, a second year first baseman and a third year Rfer…..not to mention a 28 year old All Star catcher.

Just not seeing anything vaguely close to rebuliding in their future OR a window on contending.

RC

December 14th, 2011
11:10 am

Lollygagger,

I kind of doubt that the Braves are pursuing Hardy, but I agree with your idea that he could be a bridge at SS this year and 3b in the future. I just don’t think the front office is likely thinking that way.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
11:10 am

murph Given that the Braves have publicly stated that they are looking for a LF bat, and Jones, by all accounts on this board, is better suited to play LF, doesn’t that make him a good fit?

no!!! because prado will probably hit for a higher average, get on base better, and slug better. seriously, the only way adam jones could be a good ball player…or better than prado, is if he played a good center field. if he is a LFer. he is a scrub.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
11:10 am

It’s definitely Lou/Earl.

VABravesFan

December 14th, 2011
11:11 am

I don’t think an injury prone pitcher and a pitching prospect not named Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, or Minor is a high price to pay for a talented, young, RH, power-hitting outfielder.

If Jurrjens and Hoover is a possibility for Jones, that’s a deal you have to make. Not only that, but Jones could move to CF if we can’t keep Bourn past next season. Also, he’d probably be easier to sign long term.

RC

December 14th, 2011
11:11 am

J-Man,

You said ‘pocket fisherman’!!!!! That’s the Word of the Day!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! (craziness ensuing)

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
11:12 am

I’m not gonna be to much rougher on Lew/ Voice of Harold. I mean we are Braves fans and we still support the team no matter what but I disagree with the methods the front office has used. And in reality Voice of Harold/Lew all the trash talking has been mostly in jest its just you cant tell sarcasim when you type it but no hard feelings though. I just want to see another title here and enjoy it with my friends.

Gooooooo Braves!!!!!!!!

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:14 am

If Jurrjens and Hoover is a possibility for Jones, that’s a deal you have to make Va

no way, no how

Lew

December 14th, 2011
11:14 am

VaBravesFan – Yep, I’d do that deal – JJ and Hoover for Jones. Then find a shortstop back up and we’re good to go.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:15 am

Jones = another Surhoff in the Ted

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:16 am

The more I look at Adam Jones, the more a cheaper guy like Seth Smith (in terms of what it’d take to get him) sounds like a better bet. He can platoon with Prado and Diaz in LF. SS can come in the form of Punto for all I care. We’d more than likely get Smith and one of their better prospects for JJ alone. I would think so anyways.

IDK, I’m kinda dumb. Or a lot dumb I should say.

Mike

December 14th, 2011
11:16 am

I hope Peter decides to re-sign with us. I know he’ll be getting offers from teams. Brooksie I hope he finds a team. My feeling is he’ll land on an AL team as a PH/DH. The Royals (aka Braves B Team) could use another Ex-Braves after losing Melky.

Mike

December 14th, 2011
11:16 am

I hope Peter decides to re-sign with us. I know he’ll be getting offers from teams. Brooksie I hope he finds a team. My feeling is he’ll land on an AL team as a PH/DH. The Royals (aka Braves B Team) could use another Ex-Braves after losing Melky.

Butt-Head

December 14th, 2011
11:17 am

@ Nolie Uh Huh huh what was Surhoff last name Huh Huh

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:17 am

you’re not THAT dumb….

Lew

December 14th, 2011
11:17 am

When you enjoy it with your friends (and I doubt both the enjoyment and you having friends), do you demand to know how much they make?

Butt-Head

December 14th, 2011
11:17 am

Uh I ment 1st name Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:18 am

is that supposed to make sense butthead? if so it swooshed me

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:21 am

my my the blog is chock fulla “caricatures” today.
great description BTW, DOB

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
11:22 am

I think the Rox will move Smith once they sign either Cuddyer or Beltran. Yu signs and Gonzalez gets traded soon. Steam will pick up for Jair and Martin next week.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:27 am

And why would Jones hit 2nd behind Bourn as somebody mentioned earlier? Just my thoughts, but a guy who won’t take a walk and K’s like he does has no business being what they call a “situational hitter”. Prado, when he’s right, is that guy. Polanco and Renteria in their prime were those guys. Jones is a guy you hide 7th in your lineup and hope he runs into one.

The thing I see as why they’d go after him is for that future CF in case Bourn leaves. Plus he’s RH and we do need another one of those I believe.

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
11:27 am

Is caricature a compliment or an insult?I didn’t learn that one in remedial English.

Bumble Bee

December 14th, 2011
11:27 am

What say ye Mr. O’Brien ? Any update ?

Russell Bell

December 14th, 2011
11:27 am

no such thing, and there is evil behind the claim.

I’m scratching my head, and squinting strangely at my laptop… probably best if I resist my urge to discuss.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:28 am

Sorry but I think Adam Jones is better than some here find him. Overvalued by Baltimore? Sure but we do the same with JJ and Prado. Everyone is going to hold their own players in high regard, well most of their players. I think Jones is worth a look. May not even cost us JJ or Prado. With the position that Baltimore is in they may look for prospects.

Old Yeller Teeth

December 14th, 2011
11:29 am

I’m tired of reading drivel from these stupid bloggers. I hope DOB contributes something worth reading soon !

Stanky Yankees

December 14th, 2011
11:32 am

Red Sox rule. Braves & Yankees uh-don’t.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
11:32 am

Jones is a guy you hide 7th in your lineup and hope he runs into one.

Where do you get that from? As I mentioned earlier, as late as the end of August, Jones had an OPS of .830.

The guy is a legitimate MLB hitter, no matter how irrationally you choose to approach things.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
11:35 am

@Lew start making complete statements man.

“When you enjoy it with your friends (and I doubt both the enjoyment and you having friends), do you demand to know how much they make?” Lew

1st of all, who in the heck am I demanding to know how much they make and why would I even care. 2nd you gotta get better at your trash talking man becaused that seemed rushed and you put no thought toward it.
But its ok I’ll forget all about your god-awful retort and we can just call this a mulligan…….Noone has to ever know.

go-BRAVOS

December 14th, 2011
11:37 am

Braves info and Pearl Jam in the same blog, doesn’t get any better than that.
Go Bravos…..And PJ PLEASE play Atlanta again PLEASE

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:38 am

Murph, all I said was that he’s not what I’d call a #2 hitter.

Russell Bell

December 14th, 2011
11:39 am

Mister Frisky has quite an attitude. Probably all bark and no bite.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
11:41 am

TnBrian-

He’s no more a 2 hitter than Heyward is….

Thus the dilemma of ridding the team of Prado….

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:44 am

Jones is better than Smith, or pretty much all the other names that the blog and others have mentioned with the Braves other than Beltran and Swisher. I’d take the guy, I’m just looking at other factors like who’d we be giving up and how I feel Prado is very important to our team.

Ease

December 14th, 2011
11:45 am

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
jurrjens for adam jones an internet rumor that seemed reasonable to me. then i asked an o’s guy: “no way. not even close.”

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
11:48 am

then i asked an o’s guy: “no way. not even close.”

Good.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
11:48 am

I get where the Anti-Jones sentiment is coming from, TnBrian… it’s hard to justify trading two fan-favorites for a guy who is anything less than a future HOF player.

Looking at Jones, though, it appears that he is turning into a potential all-star caliber player. The guy had a pretty decent season last year, and despite the low number of walks, I’d by lying if I said I didn’t think he’d be a good addition to the team.

One thing that is concerning though… he doesn’t have very good numbers with RISP. He does ok with 2 out and RISP, but otherwise, meh.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
11:49 am

murph Jones is a guy you hide 7th in your lineup and hope he runs into one.

Where do you get that from?

its true. this is adam jones’ hitting style. he is a lot like jeff francouer, honestly. Ks alot, hardly ever walks, and has a little pop. not bad, if only he were a good center fielder.

Gilbert,Arizona

December 14th, 2011
11:51 am

I have lived 3 houses down from Brooks the past 3 years during the off-season. I just want to mentioned that he has always talked about how much he loves playing for the Braves and the city of Atlanta. He is most definitely the class guy you see during the season and a great family man.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
11:51 am

murph As I mentioned earlier, as late as the end of August, Jones had an OPS of .830.

so, you think its a good thing that he took as 50 OPS nose dive at the end of the season? this is the guy you are trying to tell us is heading in the right direction?

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:51 am

Also, apparantly Jones is one bad defender.

Bill

December 14th, 2011
11:53 am

Good report DOB…

Murph

December 14th, 2011
11:54 am

He still would have been near the top of the Braves’ hitters at season end, DAP, despite hitting a rough patch in September.

Also, think about what anyone in Baltimore had to play for at the end of August. Hard to stay motivated when you’re 30 games out of first.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:55 am

Ease, :lol:

I knew that was coming. Just some feed Dave gives fans something to maunch on for the time being. Smith is still the guy I see us getting. Just wait until one of those FA hitters signs with the Rockies … Smith willl be gone soon after … to us.

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
12:03 pm

4 to 5 Teams in on Beltran. Most likely a 3-year deal!?! Seriously? That’s a pretty low risk gamble for the Braves right there.

VABravesFan

December 14th, 2011
12:06 pm

Jones would be a great fit for the Braves, but the trade scenario is only speculation. Truth is, the Orioles probably aren’t trading him unless they get a serious return (more than Jurrjens and a prospect). Seth Smith could still be a possibility – and at a much lower cost – but we’d have to get a near majors ready OF prospect to give up Jurrjens in that deal. BTW, Cuddyer could be on his way to Colorado soon since the Twins signed Willingham.

Lemke's Knuckler

December 14th, 2011
12:08 pm

MFin04…”4 to 5 Teams in on Beltran. Most likely a 3-year deal!?! Seriously? That’s a pretty low risk gamble for the Braves right there.”

You and I must have a different view of what low risk means. To me, a guy who’s played over 100 games only once in the past 5 years constitutes a little more than “low risk,” especially at 3 years. The guy is walking on glass legs, he can hit no doubt, but I don’t think he can stay on the field.

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
12:13 pm

Beltran:

2007 144 games
2008 161 games
2009 81 games
2010 64 games
2011 142 games

He was an All-Star 3 of the 5 years.

Braves don’t need him to play every day with Prado at 3rd and in Left Field. And there should be less wear and tear on him playing in LF as well.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
12:15 pm

murph He still would have been near the top of the Braves’ hitters at season end,

looks like you are really lowering the bar for what we get back for prado and/or jurrjens.

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
12:16 pm

if Coach had his druthers, they would have Cruz right along with Luis Durango several years ago.

And they’d be angling for Yuniski to play short.

prado will probably hit for a higher average, get on base better, and slug better. seriously, the only way adam jones could be a good ball player…or better than prado, is if he played a good center field. if he is a LFer. he is a scrub.

I don’t think the slugging would be better from Prado. It might, but I think Jones could out slug him. The average and OBP though, I would be surprised if he outperformed Prado… unless Prado has started his decline phase. He is over 18 now so it’s all down hill from there.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
12:17 pm

VABravesFan Seth Smith could still be a possibility – and at a much lower cost – but we’d have to get a near majors ready OF prospect to give up Jurrjens in that deal.

if thats what were are doing i have a much better idea. sign luke scott, and dont trade anyone.

bill

December 14th, 2011
12:19 pm

Don’t feel bad that Conrad was not offered. He needed to come back strong after what the Braves did for him. His performance dropped some last year. He was a big help in 2010 but those three errors are hard to forget. Nothing against Conrad personally just time to move on.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
12:20 pm

10paul I don’t think the slugging would be better from Prado. It might, but I think Jones could out slug him.

well, he could, but he hasnt so far in his career. both prado and jones have 6 years in the majors, and prados offensive numbers are better, with slg% numbers being basically the same. prado for jones would be a stupid move.

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
12:20 pm

For the sake of accurary, Beltrans games played in the field oover the last 5 year are:

2007 141 games
2008 158 games
2009 77 games
2010 61 games
2011 134 games

urban redneck

December 14th, 2011
12:21 pm

gonna miss the raw dog……………

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
12:22 pm

soon to be Beer:30. I just don’t see us adding much payroll right now. we have way too many questions regarding injuries. look for us to do something in late February once we know how J Hey, Huddy, Hanson, etc. are doing with thier rehab.

speaking of rehab, maybe I should have my liver checked…..

Lew

December 14th, 2011
12:22 pm

It’s definitely Lou/Earl.

No need to put much thought into comebacks when there isn’t any substance to respond to. If ranting about the Braves true salary level is all you’ve got, you won’t get much in return. You’re so freaking intelligent, you better bring more than you’ve shown today.

George

December 14th, 2011
12:23 pm

Very good story by DOB on CONRAD. BROOKS is a good guy, wishing him the very best at getting a job somewhere in baseball.

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
12:25 pm

DAP: prados offensive numbers are better, with slg% numbers being basically the same.

Jones has actually slugged slightly better than Prado in his time in the majors… and that’s at a younger age (Jones being 2 years younger). Jones has more HR power than Prado. Because of that I think going forward Jones will slug higher than Prado. The average and on base abilities though, not so much.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
12:25 pm

looks like you are really lowering the bar for what we get back for prado and/or jurrjens.

Just being realistic given the fact that both spent significant time on the DL last season… and the season before that.

If both were healthy and coming off good years, then yes, absolutely, ask for more more more. Sadly that’s not the case.

Again, for the 3rd or 4th time, I do not think Jones alone is worth both Prado and JJ. Get one of the Orioles top 3B prospects (they have 3 in their top 10) and perhaps another prospect and I think the deal would be a tough one to pass on.

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
12:26 pm

Five big trades that should happen
December, 14, 2011
Dec 1412:04PM ET By Jim Bowden

Trade 3. Atlanta Braves and Baltimore Orioles
Braves acquire: OF Adam Jones, 3B Josh Bell
Orioles acquire: RHP Jair Jurrjens, 3B/OF Martin Prado

In this four-player trade idea the Braves get a much-needed right-handed bat and above-average defender in Jones to help balance out the lineup and solidify their outfield. This could mean moving Michael Bourn to left and allowing Jones to play center. Bell would give the Braves depth at third base and an option for the future since Chipper Jones can’t play forever. The Orioles would immediately improve their starting rotation with the 25-year-old Jurrjens, who went 13-6 last year with an ERA of 2.96 and a WHIP of 1.22. Prado would be an upgrade at third base for the Orioles in the short term or give them an option at second base if Brian Roberts continues to spend time on the disabled list.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
12:28 pm

Murph – Depends on when that 3B prospect is ready for prime time.

As for Prado staying helathy. An infection from sliding to catch a ball and a hip pointer and strained oblique from laying out parralellel to the ground two feet in the air and falling right on the hip doesn’t indicate injury proness, but hard play. Would you rather he didn’t go all out and play like a wimp?

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
12:29 pm

Prado and Jurrjens for a career .275/.319/.437/.756 hitter?

Is this some sort of practical joke!?!

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
12:29 pm

Jimmy: very interesting.

1. do you have a link to the article? what are the other trades?

2. do you have a link to free beer?

thx.

CB

December 14th, 2011
12:31 pm

He is going to move Bourn and let Jones play center? Really?

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
12:33 pm

Five big trades that should happen
December, 14, 2011
Dec 1412:04PM ET By Jim Bowden

Trade 2. New York Yankees and Seattle Mariners
Yankees acquire: RHP Felix Hernandez
Mariners acquire: RHP Ivan Nova, C Jesus Montero, RHP Dellin Betances

Seattle Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik says he’s not going to trade Hernandez, but if the Mariners eventually want to become legitimate contenders they might have to. A blockbuster four-player deal with the Yankees would point the Mariners in the right direction. Nova and Betances would go right in a young rotation of Michael Pineda, Danny Hultzen and Jason Vargas a formidable five that should develop into a quintet of 15-game winners. Montero would give them a long-term middle-of-the-order bat they would control for the next six years. And with the money saved on Hernandez, they could put that towards signing Prince Fielder. The Yankees on the other hand would have one of the best 1-2 punches at the top of the rotation in C.C. Sabathia and Hernandez and instantly improve their chances of getting back to the World Series.

LOL

George

December 14th, 2011
12:33 pm

I don’t understand why FRANK WHEN is convinced PASTORNICKY can handle the job at SS full time this year. PASTORNICKY is not neary as good as FURCAL was as a rookie stepping right into the starting role. FW let A-GON get away, he should have kept him, A-GON was very good in the field and while he did not hit for ave he did show some power. FW please do something about SS, PASTORNICKY is not ready for starting role.

Bobby Hill

December 14th, 2011
12:33 pm

Lew,

I didn’t say the team was rebuilding now or even a few years from now. I said it was inevitable that it would happen eventually. All team have to go through rebuilding phases unless you can spend 150+ million every year on payroll.

My point was that because the Braves are in a “win now” phase of the cycle it doesn’t make sense to cut corners right now.

brian

December 14th, 2011
12:33 pm

agree with most of what Bowden said except moving Bourn to LF. Bourn should stay in CF with his range but that would give a dynamic OF of Jones, Bourn, and Heyward

O.J.

December 14th, 2011
12:35 pm

MFin04, why is it a joke to you? Adam Jones is trending upwards, not done, and he is only 26, dude will probably hit 30 homers this year, maybe more if he is in Atlanta, where the ball tends to fly a little bit further during the summer months.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
12:36 pm

Bobby Hill – Again, why are they in “win now” phase? That would apply only if they were an older team (like the Phillies) and have aging stars whose performances were bound to decline radically due to age or infirmity. The Braves are NOT in this type of situation in that they have a very young core of players, quite a bit of young pitching and the lessening of substantial payroll within the next two years.

BravePack

December 14th, 2011
12:36 pm

Orioles fans seem to think that it isn’t Jones but Markakis that might be traded. They are saying even though the owner like Nick that the power isn’t there or hasn’t been the last couple years for a corner OF. If it’s for Markakis I say go for it. The Braves can afford his contract, especially after this upcoming year.

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
12:37 pm

Jimmy, what about 1, 4, and 5? or are you just teasing us?

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
12:40 pm

OJ – his numbers are terrible. Eerily similar to Jeff Francouer. Can’t get on base and strikes out a lot.

George – “PASTORNICKY is not ready for starting role.” Well neither was A-Gon, but we tried that experiment and it failed miserably. Why not try a young kid with the ability to steal 30-40 bases who won’t cost the Braves much money at all?

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
12:41 pm

fire the beer meister. get the one from Milwaukee.

brian

December 14th, 2011
12:41 pm

Markakis would be a huge get for the Braves as well. If the Braves could add Jones or Markakis and a prospect or Bell for Jurrjens and Prado then they should proceed. The Braves would then have to focus on adding Punto as a backup IF and Vazquez as a 1 year starter to bridge to Delgado and Teheran. Vazquez was such a good influence on Jurrjens I wouldn’t mind him interacting with the Braves top young pitchers either

DAP

December 14th, 2011
12:43 pm

10paul Jones has actually slugged slightly better than Prado in his time in the majors… and that’s at a younger age

notice i said “basically the same”. jones beats prado by 3 slugging points, which is insignificant. not to mention prado is doing it at turner field, where its harder to hit than camden yards.

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
12:44 pm

yawn, nothing will happen until it gets MUCH warmer. Why do a deal when several key pieces of your team are NOT ONLY under contract, BUT ALSO hurt or recovering.

recovering? I guess one day, I hope to be a recovering person…

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
12:44 pm

Adam Jones (6 seasons) .275/.319/.437/.756
Jeff Francoeur (7 seasons) .270/.313/.433/.746

So maybe we should try to package Jurrjens and Prado for Frenchy. ;) Bet the Royals would do it!

bobbyc

December 14th, 2011
12:44 pm

How bout this Prado Jair Pastornicky and Zeke Spruill to Baltimore for Jones Hardy and Josh Bell.

George

December 14th, 2011
12:45 pm

Do not trade MARTIN because we do not know how much CHIPPER can play this year, If we are going to make a offer to BALT for JONES lets offer HEYWARD.

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
12:46 pm

Mindless, come on Jimmy, about those other fantasy trades…..

CB

December 14th, 2011
12:47 pm

You guys wanting Markakis need to look at his salary.

Juan

December 14th, 2011
12:51 pm

Why Markakis?…becuase he’s from the Atalanta Area?….we don’t need another lefty Outfielder…we need a righthander bat.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
12:53 pm

Braves should stay away from Adam Jones. Low OBP, not ranked high as defensive CFer, not a great at stealing bases.

At age 25 Prado hit 307/360/451 with an OPS+ of 113. Adam Jones at age 25 hit 275/319/437 with OPS+ of 101. Biggest difference is Jones plays CF and had 2237 ABs whole Prado had 779 ABs.

But if I am looking for who will be the better bat and play LF in 2012, I would bet Prado has an OPS of around .825, while A. Jones is around .775.

I don’t think I would trade JJ straight up for A. Jones. All-star SP is worth more than a .775 OPS, avg defensive CFer that doesn’t steal many bases.

George

December 14th, 2011
12:55 pm

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
12:44 pm
Adam Jones (6 seasons) .275/.319/.437/.756
Jeff Francoeur (7 seasons) .270/.313/.433/.746

So maybe we should try to package Jurrjens and Prado for Frenchy. Bet the Royals would do it!
**************************************************************************
JJ and MARTIN for FRANCOUR? We would be giveing way to much up for him.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
12:58 pm

In this four-player trade idea the Braves get a much-needed right-handed bat and above-average defender in Jones

defender of what, bowden? not center field.

This could mean moving Michael Bourn to left and allowing Jones to play center.

did bowden really say that? really? im having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one.

Gone Viral

December 14th, 2011
1:04 pm

The more this plays out, the more I prefer us to keep what we have. I wouldn’t trade Prado straight up for Adam Jones, much less JJ.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
1:04 pm

Hey DOB… Don’t think my comments or opinion of Conrad are more egregious than that steamer you float out every few months about Mark Cuban or someone of his stature buying the Braves. — Mister Frisky

Oh, really? Mister Frisky, you said that every few months I float some idea about Mark Cuban “or someone of his stature” buying the Braves. So I have a simple challenge for you: Besides last month, when I wondered aloud if Cuban might have interest in buying the Braves — I made clear I had no idea if he did, then contacted him and found out he did not, which I also wrote — please let us know any other time when I suggested that anyone might be interested in buying the Braves.

It doesn’t even have to be someone of Cuban’s stature, as you suggest. Anyone at all. Millionaire, billionaire, individual or corporation. Any party whatsoever that I suggested might buy the Braves.

Actually, try to find a story where I didn’t take the opposite tact of so many others who’ve suggested the team would be sold soon. I have, for the past two-plus years, written that Liberty Media has not said anything about selling and that McGuirk says they don’t intend to anytime soon.

But apparently you have an entirely different recollection of what I’ve written or suggested. So please, I’m not even asking you to find multiple cases — you said I did it every “every few months” — I’m just challenging you to find one other story, just one, where I wrote about someone of Cuban’s stature, or any stature whatsoever, buying the Braves.

And until you do, we’ll all just assume you were going off half-cocked again, spewing opinions and accusations that are baseless, devoid of substance and simply erroneous.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
1:04 pm

How the H… can Dave Winfield be listed as one of Jeff Francoeur’s “similar” players through age 27? Francoeur has an OPS+ of 92 and Winfield’s OPS+ was 136. That’s comparing a below average ML player to a near HOF player. Maybe it’s all about PAs….

LAUGH OUT LOUD

December 14th, 2011
1:05 pm

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
1:07 pm

No trades can be good. Just ask a Red Sox fan from say, the early 1920’s….

Mitchell

December 14th, 2011
1:07 pm

There was a reason that every teammate supported him and defended him after his gaffes cost the Braves so dearly in the 2010 division series against San Francisco.

Bobby Cox managed the Braves from mid-1990 to October 2010 with three Hall of Fame pitchers, a Hall of Fame third basemen and one of the top payrolls in baseball for much of it and won one World Series.

At the end of the day, it’s on him.

Fifteen playoff appearances in twenty years and one World Series, not to mention blowing a 3 games to 1 lead in the ‘85 ALCS.

How could they let him in the Hall of Fame?

To paraphrase Jeff Schultz, it’s the Hall of Fame. Not the Hall of Good in the Regular Season.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
1:09 pm

yet another heard from. Maybe we should erect a blog arch and have a sign saying ” 5 million Clueless heard from”

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
1:10 pm

Jed Lowrie traded to Astros.

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
1:11 pm

Eerily similar to Jeff Francouer. Can’t get on base and strikes out a lot.

That inspired me to look at the splits. Francoeur is a platoon player. He destroys LHP. For his career .299/.346/.493/.839. Couple him with the correct partner and you get a monster outfield corner platoon.

Adam Jones not so much. He’s actually an inverted split. I don’t trust those to last.

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
1:11 pm

Oops, meant to say that sometimes NOT making a trade can be good…..

Lew

December 14th, 2011
1:12 pm

Shanks and Macon – Right, throw in the paper mills and their stench and you have a trio made for each other.

Mitchell

December 14th, 2011
1:12 pm

Did anybody see the 50 Most Morable Moments of the ’90s countdown on MLB Network last night?

Yeah, neither did I. I mean, it was on but I couldn’t watch.

Mitchell

December 14th, 2011
1:15 pm

If you know what I mean.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
1:18 pm

In this age of blog/Twitter over-analysis, I’ve determined that perhaps five players in all of baseball, maybe fewer than that, could be acquired via trade without upsetting at least 40-70 percent of any team’s fans.

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
1:20 pm

DOB, huge underestimate. Somebody is ALWAYS going to be there to complain or point out some “would be” deficiency……..

Orange Brave f/k/a Billy Jack's BBQ & Shrimp

December 14th, 2011
1:21 pm

(exactly the point of my prior entry)

Here I am agreeing with you — yet, I am complaining

N8

December 14th, 2011
1:24 pm

I love it when DOB goes off….. especially when it’s not directed at me. Much more enjoyable. :-)

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
1:29 pm

DOB lighting me up is awesome.Just made the blogger HOF.

Seattle Braves

December 14th, 2011
1:31 pm

Trading of JJ and/or Prado for BJ Upton seems logical. Tampa wants a SP and we need an OF…

brian

December 14th, 2011
1:35 pm

I would take Adam Jones over BJ Upton anyday

brian

December 14th, 2011
1:35 pm

Frisky – you are confused. It is not the HOF, it is the blogger Hall of Shame. Tell Shaun hi

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
1:36 pm

Macon.com article was a good read. It’s tough when your team thinks that the only way they can get better is by trading away good players.

The fact that we even have to talk about trading Prado and Jurrjens for Adam Jones is absurd.

Keep both of them and sign a guy like Beltran (maybe Rollins or Cuddyer).

Either way, adding one piece and getting rid of 1 or 2 pieces, doesn’t make you significantly better.

Jim

December 14th, 2011
1:37 pm

JJ, Prado, and Pastornicky for A. Jones, Hardy and top-ranked 3B prospect. Sign W. Betimit. Thoughts?

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
1:38 pm

would take Adam Jones over BJ Upton anyday

Less gag reflex? :-)

I might not take Ted Williams’ frozen head over those two, but it’s close. Really, really close.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
1:40 pm

brian I would take Adam Jones over BJ Upton anyday

he biggest difference is upton can actually play CF.

Seattle Braves

December 14th, 2011
1:41 pm

And he can Steal Bases. He adds better POP then Jones too.

BravePack

December 14th, 2011
1:43 pm

David O’Brien

December 14th, 2011
1:18 pm
In age of blog/Twitter over-analysis, I’ve determined that perhaps five players in all of baseball, maybe fewer than that, could be traded for without upsetting 40-70 percent of any team’s fans.

Now that’s the truth. I can’t believe some of you wouldn’t trade for Markakis because he’s a lefty. So what if he’s a lefty if he’s a good hitter. I think I’d rather have Markakis over Jones especially if he has similar stats to Francoeur.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
1:44 pm

bravepack I can’t believe some of you wouldn’t trade for Markakis because he’s a lefty. So what if he’s a lefty if he’s a good hitter.

congratulations. you have some sense. :- )

Brava

December 14th, 2011
1:47 pm

DOB,

Very good blog and a nice tribute to Conrad. Almost made me sad that the Braves non-tendered him.

… Then I came back to my senses. :)

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
1:47 pm

This may sound crazy to some but I’d rather deal JJ for specs and keep Prado and go at it for 3 years w/ signing Beltran than trading BOTH and only getting Adam Jones….

Adding Beltran and keeping Prado while only subtracting JJ makes us better (IMO) than subtracting both JJ and Prado and adding Adam Jones.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
1:47 pm

He adds better POP then Jones too.

The Braves were third in the league in dingers, even with neither Chipper nor Heyward cranking as many as 20. There’s plenty of sock on the club, no reason to be trading a piece or two to get a guy who is going to hit fewer than McCann, even. What help is that?

@Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

December 14th, 2011
1:48 pm

@Lew

At 10:59, you question my thought on ‘why the true budget for this franchise would be such an important topic inside of forum, discussion like this blog.’

And then, at 11:09, inside this very same blog, someone under the same name, Lew, posts the following:

“Next year the Braves could have as much as $30 million coming off of payroll and they have five or so young pitchers who are highly thought of (by all of MLB, not just a few fans) that won’t even go to arbitration for another three or so years – much less be eligible for Free Agency. Add to that the fact they have numerous middle infield prospects, a second year first baseman and a third year Rfer…..not to mention a 28 year old All Star catcher.”

I am assuming that these two posts were made by the same person. If not, my apologies. But there is some real irony here.

You also asked the following: If you knew the answer, would you be any more likely to attend games? To watch them on TV? Would you like the team any better, the players they have or the total product they put on the field?

Will the quality of your life improve? Help you feed your family or to determine if you can afford to buy Christmas presents for your neices and nephews?

Would it make you feel better about how much they DO spend if you knew to the penny what tht figure was?

I am not even sure how to respond to that. I guess the answer is maybe, I guess, though those very questions could be applied to reupping of Brian McCanns contract, or whether or not the Braves trade for Adam Jones or whether the Braves might make some noise at the winter meetings. Yet, not knowing those answers does not stop us from venturing guesses or swapping opinions on such topics.

Everything, EVERYTHING, this team does at this very moment in this offseason revolves around where this front office stands with financial flexibility. I mean, I could follow every question or opinion you will ever pose with your responses above. If that were the case, if you had to apply each thought through your litmus test, why even have this forum?

I know some of you have loyalty toward this beat writer and that he goes above and beyond (and he certainly does) to interact with fans here. But c’mon. You have to see where this paper, its beat writer, being THE SUPPOSED MEDIA MEMBER WITH THE MOST INSIGHT OF ANY OUTSIDE THE INNER CIRCLE, might want to venture a bit farther into this debate of this franchise and its financial backing than the current, “we asked a few times and they don’t want to answer so ‘oh well.’

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
1:48 pm

BP-

I said earlier this morning….

Only person I even remotely think of trading JJ and Prado to the O’s for is Markakis….

He’s the ONLY guy they have worth those two.

George

December 14th, 2011
1:50 pm

Mitchell 1:07
15 playoff apperences in 20 yrs not so bad. I think it is good. I would much prefer BOBBY as MGR then FAB FREDI we are stuck with for at least 2 more years.

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
1:50 pm

Hey Brian,Like they say out here in Hollywood.Bad press is better than no press.P.S. Mark Cuban is one of the major players to buy Los Doyers.

BravoMan

December 14th, 2011
1:51 pm

Markakis FTW

ole richie

December 14th, 2011
1:52 pm

id rather not have anyone that plays for baltimore

Bat Masterson

December 14th, 2011
1:53 pm

It seems no matter how many time Adam Jones gets shot to pieces here he keeps coming back. Damn guy must be a zombie.

Steve from OH

December 14th, 2011
1:54 pm

I think Adam Jones still has a lot of upside and would be a nice pickup, but his performance to date certainly hasn’t been nearly as good as many think.

@Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

December 14th, 2011
1:54 pm

And, for the record, I like Frank Wren and I for one don’t think 90-plus million dollars is anything to sneeze at. I like this roster, short one more bat and would like to see a defensive first SS in there rather than sacrifice that that for someone who may just run into one every once in a while. My frustrations lie with my expectations of this paper and this position of covering them 24, 7. Maybe its misplaced, I don’t know. And there could be a millions reasons why things are done the way they are. And I am sure DOB is the nicest dude on the planet, with all kinds of good deeds and best intentions. But, in opinion, compared to other baseball markets, this paper falls short in its coverage. But, what do I know. I can answer that: nothing. DOB could tell me to pound sand and he would be well within his rights. It is what it is. I am a grounded fan, enjoy consuming all that goes with the offseason and will watch, whether its 90 wins or 90 losses.

Seattle Braves

December 14th, 2011
1:55 pm

@ncscoots

Im comparing Upton to Jones. Not to the Braves..

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
1:56 pm

It seems no matter how many time Adam Jones gets shot to pieces here he keeps coming back. Damn guy must be a zombie.

I’ve kept him off The Sushi List because there was the tiniest sliver of possibility that he might actually figure it out and do something with himself. A few more mentions here, though, and I might have to reconsider. :-)

[...] O’Brien writing for the Atlanta Braves blog discusses the situation regarding the future for Peter Moylan following the Brave’s decision [...]

Chop Chop

December 14th, 2011
2:04 pm

I just want Jurrjens and Prado out of here. We’re not going to pay either of those guys long-term, so we might as well get the type of guy Wren wants so we can fail badly enough for Smilin’ Frank to get fired.

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
2:04 pm

Even the homers on the blog would still be upset if Wren just signed Nick Punto and used Jose Constanza as a fourth outfielder. He’s gotta do something more than that for me to like this team in the NL east in 2012.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:05 pm

I think Adam Jones still has a lot of upside and would be a nice pickup, but his performance to date certainly hasn’t been nearly as good as many think.

It hasn’t been as bad as many others on here would want you to believe, either.

Patrick

December 14th, 2011
2:07 pm

chop chop,

I think the moves that Wren have made have been good.
I seriously don’t think the amount of money he gets to spend is in his control though whatsoever.

You should be wanting Liberty Media gone or Terry McGuirk

Chop Chop

December 14th, 2011
2:09 pm

Punto’s got a ring. He’d bring a championship pedigree to our club. You can’t put a price on something like that.

Seattle Braves

December 14th, 2011
2:10 pm

just make a move to make us happy

BB FAN

December 14th, 2011
2:10 pm

I like Adam Jones as a solid player. I’ve seen him play in Baltimore a few times over the last two years and he’s solid, not great, but solid. The only thing I worry about is his Home/Road splits. It seems like Camden Yards help his stats a lot. But I would probably still trade Jurrjens OR Prado for him but not both. Even straight up would be a tough call because of Jones’ splits. Wren might need to get a prospect in return as well. If he trades both then he needs to get Jones and like 3 very good prospects.

1995 was 16 years ago

December 14th, 2011
2:11 pm

The more I look at it, the more I think Jones wouldn’t be a great fit for this team. Haven’t we had our fill of guys with good power and poor on-base skills? Jones is a great athlete who definitely passes the eyeball test, but it seems like his excessive strikeouts and inability to take a walk would wear on the fan base pretty quickly.

I like Markakis a lot as a player, but again, he doesn’t seem like a great fit for this lineup. He’ll give you better at-bats than Jones, but we’re already pretty lefty-heavy.

As much as I want us to get something done, I want us to get something done that makes us a better team. If I were Wren, I’d probably look somewhere outside of Baltimore.

Bill

December 14th, 2011
2:12 pm

Would love Jones and JJ..it would greatly improve the team.

J-Hey will be back (if not injured) Greg & Scott are already working on that.

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
2:14 pm

If only the Braves could find a way to “acquire” an All-Star Pitcher, All-Star Utility Guy, and an All-Star Left Fielder this offseason we would be good to go.

Eureka! 8)

Jurrjens
Prado
Beltran

Lew

December 14th, 2011
2:14 pm

Najeh – Has nothing whatsoever with DOB and any opinion/comment he;’s made. It has to do with being a fan.

If a person really bases his/her fandom on how much a team spends, then maybe they should be the fan of the Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies or maybe the Agels, who spend inordinate amounts of money on players.

The Braves have the fifteenth ( of 30 teams -dead middle) attendance in MLB. They also have the fifteenth highest payroll in MLB. That tells me two things 1. That they don’t have the proceeds coming in to pay a lot more and 2. That they are exercising fiscal responsibility – something almosty always lacking ina good bit of MLB.

And yet, they still manage to contend – they’ve been in the race in all years since 91 except for 08 – even if they didn’t quite make it – and the last couple of years, have managed to remain a VERY strong team for the majority of both seasons.

Now last September was not pretty to watch (and I watched every inning of the monthand most for the year – missing only one game to go to a concert).. In no way was I happy about it. I wish it had been otherwise, but it was not to be. Nonetheless, even with a monumental collapse – something that has happened so few times in all of MLB history that I seriously doubt I’ll ever see it happen again with the Braves – I still realized that there was a solid nucleus on the team, that we have loads of good pitching (starting and in the pen) and only needed a small piece or two to go further this year.

But, then again. I’m a fan. I don’t just come aound when I’m happy. I dont just watch the team when I know they are playing well. I take the good with the bad. I’ve watched them when they won 100 games and I’ve watched them when they’ve lost 100. I’ll do the same as long as I draw breath. Whether or not they spend tons of money, I’ll feel the same about the Braves, either way and will support them.

If you can’t, that’s not my problem, is it?

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
2:15 pm

It hasn’t been as bad as many others on here would want you to believe, either.

When you have a conversation about a player that includes this sentiment, it’s a bad sign, Murph. Even if the guy hasn’t been as bad as some might think, he’s been bad enough to plant the seed of the idea, and this is not the type of player who could be considered an upgrade. He’s Francoeur with a different driver’s license, is all.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
2:16 pm

murph now claiming an anti jones conspiracy. oh brother…

one thing is for sure, trading prado for him would be an over overpay. trading jurrjens for him would be an overpay. any deal that is even similar to something like that would be idiotic for the braves.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
2:18 pm

and used Jose Constanza as a fourth outfielder.

OK, now over that, I’d probably take Ted Williams’ frozen head, LOL.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:18 pm

Punto’s got a ring. He’d bring a championship pedigree to our club. You can’t put a price on something like that.

Rafael Belliard has a ring too…

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
2:20 pm

Rafael Belliard has a ring too…

Call him. I can’t imagine that he’s lost any bat speed. :-)

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:22 pm

murph now claiming an anti jones conspiracy. oh brother…

Yeah, that’s exactly what I claimed, slappy. Collusion! Conspiracy! Meetings that I didn’t get invited to! You’re all in this together, you and the rest of ‘em. You’re trying to turn the blog against Adam Jones… and I’m the only one who sees it.

Oh brother indeed.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
2:23 pm

And I am sure DOB is the nicest dude on the planet, with all kinds of good deeds and best intentions. — @Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

No, I’m not even close to being the nicest on my block or my end of the pressbox. Far, far from it. And not many good deeds, either. Even my intentions aren’t always what they should be.

But here’s the thing I can honestly say I do: Work as hard as I can, and for such a ridiculously high number of hours most weeks that you would be embarrassed for saying some of the things you do about me, @Fredo/Najeh Davenpoop. And if you don’t believe me, feel free to email and I’ll give you my phone number, and we can go over exactly what it is that I do in a typical week. (Perhaps versus what you do?) I’m serious about that. We’ll discuss.

Because as I said, I know my limitations, my faults. I’m not the nicest, don’t do the good deeds I should, don’t have the best intentions. You could accuse me of any of those things and I’d not utter a word in disagreement. Just don’t question a man’s work ethic or aptitude when you haven’t even the slightest clue what you’re talking about. And when you’re surely doing anything but work as you hammer away at someone night and day for what you (wrongly) perceive to be their shortcomings.

@Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

December 14th, 2011
2:26 pm

@Lew,

I have no idea what you are babbling about. I agree with 100 percent of what you said concerning enjoying this team, win or loss. I would easitly put myself in that category. And I have no idea why anything would be your problem. I don’t know you. I think you are confused. I know reading that response directed at me that I am confused.

As a fan of this team, that enjoys offseason discussion, I would like to know where this team is financially, feeling as though that would give me a much better sense of perspective on why the decisions that they may or may not make were made.

I don’t have an opinion of the ownership group. It could announce today that it was dropping payroll to 13 million a year. I just, for the sake of discourse, want to know where this team stands money-wise so that I cna better understand why they do what they do or dont do.

What that has to do with anything you said above, I have no idea. Look, we get it. You like DOB. You think I do not. Its cool. People can disagree on what should be reported and what should not. Its not your problem. Its not my problem. And as long as DOB’s bosses agree with him (which it would seem they do) it aint Dave’s problem. Its a fan forum. Welcome.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:29 pm

And if you don’t believe me, feel free to email and I’ll give you my phone number

Does that offer stand for all of us, or just the davenpoop kid? We can talk about our work weeks… barbecue… baseball….

You hang up! No, you hang up! Ok, let’s hang up at the same time. Ready… one, two, three… did you hang up? Ah, hehehe. Ok, you hang up.

Braint

December 14th, 2011
2:29 pm

@Ward – You really think there were no Braves who paticipated with PEDs, Steroids and/or Human Growth Hormones? Take a look at the transformation made by Javy Lopez from one off-season to spring training. He was shredded with a very low % of body fat. I’m sure Sheff and Chipper used a form of HGH that could only be monitored through blood work.

RC

December 14th, 2011
2:31 pm

Article of the day:

Why Jeff Bagwell Should Not Make the Hall of Fame: An In Depth Study

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/14/2635923/jeff-bagwell-hall-of-fame

Chop Chop

December 14th, 2011
2:32 pm

I know how much money the Braves have to spend. I just choose not to reveal it because it annoys the hell out of a couple of commenters on a blog.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:34 pm

Marcus Giles is at the top of my list of former Braves that I suspect were doping… him and Javy. And Sheffield.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
2:34 pm

As a fan of this team, that enjoys offseason discussion, I would like to know where this team is financially, feeling as though that would give me a much better sense of perspective on why the decisions that they may or may not make were made. — @Fredo, Najeh Davenpoop

I’ll try once more. You never know when it might get through.

Davenpoop, honestly, what part of this do you not understand? We — AJC, mlb.com, various national outlets — have asked countless times in recent years for annual payroll, for the upcoming payroll, for specific or ballpark figures of what the team thinks it might have to spend or its projected payroll compared to the previous years, etc., etc. And the best answer we’ve gotten in years is that the payroll should be the same or slightly above what it was the previous year. And that payroll from previous year, we can only get by adding the salaries ourselves and hoping that we’re doing the accounting using the same methods as the team, since its accounting is all that ultimately matters.

Do you not believe or grasp that they (team officials) decline to give out any specific payroll information, contract information, insurance information, projected room under their self-imposed budget (whatever that figure might be), whether that limit is fluid or set in stone, etc.? Or do you blame us for not somehow forcing them to tell us? Please explain what you expect in these matters, given the team’s stance.

Billy Walsh

December 14th, 2011
2:34 pm

Pass on Markakis. His numbers have declined for the past few years. In a hitters park no less.

Braint

December 14th, 2011
2:36 pm

Could you imagine Prado’s numbers playing in Baltimore’s ballpark for 81 games a year? Now invision the opposite for Adam Jones — can you imagine his numbers playing in ATL for 81 games?

TheAntiMe

December 14th, 2011
2:39 pm

That’s an awesome Pearl Jam song, DOB.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:39 pm

Markakis is nothing if not durable… that should be a part of the Braves’ consideration given their recent issues with keeping guys on the field.

Even with his numbers declining a little over the last 2-3 years I’d still take him without hesitation. He plays good D, doesn’t strike out much (75 K’s, 62 walks last season), and he fits the bill of a good situational hitter with some pop.

BravesFanLostInOhio

December 14th, 2011
2:41 pm

Really Murph, at this point, I would think Rocker would be at the top of your list ;-)

Lew

December 14th, 2011
2:41 pm

Najeh – Whatever Dude. Spout off all you want – I’ve said what’s on my mind – Think of me what you will and I’ll try to muddle through.

Billy Walsh

December 14th, 2011
2:42 pm

We already have markakis on our roster….Prado.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:43 pm

Last year Jones had pretty uneven home/away splits, at least as far as power numbers go. In 2009 and 2010, though, he was fairly close to the same player away from Baltimore as he was when playing at home.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
2:44 pm

Sometimes sunshine manages to seep through the clouds of doom and gloom pervding life – sent a bunch of artwork to another fan – someone I met a Spring Training a couple years back – so they could get them signed at the alumni weekend last season.

Just found out that she got Sid Bream to sign a copy of my Sid Slid/Chip Caray piece. It will make a nice centerpiece to my new collection.

Thank you Mrs. Hall.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:45 pm

I picture Rocker looking at a vial of steroids with the same confused face he’d have if he were looking at a 3rd grade math quiz… no way was the guy smart enough to administer meds without killing himself.

Bill

December 14th, 2011
2:45 pm

DOB, I’ll be the first to say I’m sorry if I’ve ever offended you in any way. I know how hard you work..thanks for what you do. But I still don’t always agree, ok?

VABravesFan

December 14th, 2011
2:48 pm

DOB – sounds to me like you need a vacation. I’m surprised you even humor some of the comments made on this blog.

Earlier, I suggested a trade of Jurrjens and Hoover for Adam Jones – but then I thought the O’s would probably want a bit more than that. The fact that they’re planning on moving one of their best relievers – Jim Johnson – to the rotation makes me wonder if they’d accept a swap of Jurrjens, Vizcaino, and Hoover. Is that too much? I’m probably better off ignoring the idea since it’s only a rumor – just trying to come up with a reasonable trade offer for Jones – not that Frank Wren would ever take advice from a blogger…

Bay Area Steve

December 14th, 2011
2:52 pm

we should erect a blog arch and have a sign saying ” 5 million Clueless heard from” – Lew

Well played, Lew. If only there were some sort of accolade one could earn for such creativity…

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
2:53 pm

Do people even look at stats/track records/anything of value when suggesting trades?

Lew

December 14th, 2011
2:53 pm

BAS – You just gave me my accolade – probably more than I deserve.

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
2:53 pm

It looks like every team in the league is looking for a starting pitcher. Wren should be patient and wait for a desperate team to come calling next week once Gio Gonzalez is traded and Yu Darvish is signed.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
2:55 pm

murph murph now claiming an anti jones conspiracy. oh brother…

Yeah, that’s exactly what I claimed,

yeah, it kinda is. you said jones isnt as bad as “some people want you to think”… so there you go. he just isnt good enough to trade prado or jurrjens for.

it seems like you like adam jones so much, the only way for us to keep you away from him is to put him in a donut case.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
2:56 pm

Bill: Thanks. And I have no problem with you or anyone else disagreeing with me, occasionally or every day. Those arguments/debates are a big part of what makes it fun on here, at least when the trolls aren’t running roughshod.

Bay Area Steve

December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm

“it seems like you like adam jones so much, the only way for us to keep you away from him is to put him in a donut case.” – DAP

Low blow. Time out. Take all the time you need…

Murph

December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm

he just isnt good enough to trade prado or jurrjens for.

I disagree, as do others who aren’t a part of the Anti-Jones Defamation League that you’ve formed.

it seems like you like adam jones so much, the only way for us to keep you away from him is to put him in a donut case.

That reminds me of the movie Scott Pilgrim Vs The World when the blond guy tries to insult Scott and it just leaves everyone looking confused.

Todd Ingram: Tell it to the cleaning lady on Monday.
Scott Pilgrim: What?
Todd Ingram: Because you’ll be dust by Monday… because you’ll be pulverized in two seconds. The cleaning lady? She cleans up… dust. She dusts.
Scott Pilgrim: So, what’s on Monday?
Todd Ingram: ‘Cause… it’s Friday now, she’s the weekends off, so… Monday, right?

jfp

December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm

PAYROLL ALERT.
When the Atlanta Braves are evasive about their payroll, that is just a polite way of saying I AM NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU AN ACTUAL DOLLAR AMOUNT. Pretty simple, huh.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm

DOB your pissed off today!

But i’m pissed off at you! But that’s only because you didn’t hang out with me this summer on my Atlanta trip, and introduce me to the team, and get me free stuff, hit the club with Freeman and Kimbrel, or go hunting with Chipper. Yeah I expected all that…so…

Pearl Jam song day! YES! Something good is going to happen on a PJ day! Although I would have posted Indifference lyrics myself.

old timer

December 14th, 2011
3:01 pm

Maybe Conrad could jump into the GOP primary. He certainly qualifies as a non-Mitt they’re looking for, and the job pays about the same as the Big League minimum.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:02 pm

That reminds me of the movie Scott Pilgrim Vs The World

Touting Adam Jones and watching Scott Pilgrim Vs The World.

The man has no shame. :-)

Jimmy Crack

December 14th, 2011
3:03 pm

First off…you do a good job on this blog O’Brien.

Baseball is such a dragging, plodding, torturous game. Just reading this blog makes me feel like baseball needs a “timing” makeover. Here’s some things I would change…

1) Get rid of intentional walks. If the pitcher makes a 4-finger symbol, the batter takes first base.

2) The pitcher only gets 2 throws to first base to hold a runner. After that, each throw to first base counts as a ball. This gives the runner has the some advantage later in the batter’s count. If they call a pitchout…fine, as it is counted as a pitch for a ball in the count.

3) Make relief pitchers ready to go from the bullpen (except injury substitutions). No on-field warm ups. It would create “reliables” or relievers who don’t allow walks to come in if the bases are loaded.

4) 5 foul balls maximum per batter. On the 5th foul the batter’s out.

5) Enforce the time restrictions for batters between pitches and make pitchers accomodate a ready batter.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:05 pm

Touting Adam Jones and watching Scott Pilgrim Vs The World.

The man has no shame.

I don’t care if you don’t like me touting Adam Jones, but if you’re going to insult Scott Pilgrim VS The World then you and I are going to have issues.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:05 pm

5) Enforce the time restrictions for batters between pitches and make pitchers accomodate a ready batter.

Impossible…..you have to step out, un-velcro then re-velcro your batting gloves twice per pitch then adjust yourself. You can’t speed that up…

Bay Area Steve

December 14th, 2011
3:06 pm

Damn Jimmy. And I still rail against the DH. What are you tryin’ to do to my game, man?

Dragging, plodding, torturous? Why watch at all?

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:07 pm

then you and I are going to have issues

Issue up, then, bandido. :-)

(I’ve never seen it, Murph. The trailers were enough to make me consider spending that 90 minutes elsewhere, LOL)

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:10 pm

I don’t know about you guys, but the ball & chain takes one look at the TV, and if she for one second can see a dragging, plodding, torturous baseball game……..i’m left alone to enjoy it. That’s how it was intended from the start.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
3:12 pm

haha, nice, murph.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:13 pm

scoots, I know you’re more of a Terms of Endearment guy, but Scott Pilgrim VS The World is one of the most creative, awesome movies I’ve seen in the last couple of years.

One you should see before commenting on, at least.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:13 pm

if she for one second can see a dragging, plodding, torturous baseball game

The pace of the game is the beauty of the game, from where I sit. But, then, I’m a Red Smith fan.

One man’s plodding torture is another man’s graceful leisure, I reckon.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:14 pm

I almost just typed Scott Proctor instead of Scott Pilgrim and it made me feel icky.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:15 pm

One you should see before commenting on, at least.

I trust you, Murph, but I believe I’ll have to pass on Mr. Pilgrim. Maybe at some later date.

BB FAN

December 14th, 2011
3:17 pm

A closer look at Adam Jones Home/Road splits for the last 3 years:

2009 Home – 246 AB, 67 H, 12 2B, 3 3B, 11 HR, 42 RBI, ,272 AVG, .331 OBP, .480 Slg, .811 OPS
2009 Road – 227 AB, 64 H, 10 2B, 0 3B, 8 HR, 28 RBI, .282 AVG, .340 OBP, .432 Slg, .772 OPS

2010 Home – 287 AB, 89 H, 14 2B, 2 3B, 9 HR, 39 RBI, .310 Avg, .360 OBP, .467 Slg, .827 OPS
2010 Road – 294 AB, 76 H, 11 2B, 3 3B, 10 HR, 30 RBI, .259 Avg, .289 OBP, .418 Slg, .707 OPS

2011 Home – 287 AB, 81H, 18 2B, 1 3B, 19 HR, 55 RBI, .282 Avg, .323 OBP, .551 Slg, .873 OPS
2011 Road – 280 AB, 78H, 8 2B, 1 3B, 6 HR, 28 RBI, .279 Avg, .316 OBP, .379 Slg, .694 OPS

2011 is the biggest difference but for all three years, there’s a big difference in the kind of hitter Jones is at Camden Yards than he is at other ballparks. Camden Yards is known as a hitters ballpark so it would worry me if Wren trades for him. Of course, that’s a big if. Who knows whats going to happen.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:19 pm

scoots, you’ve always got an open invite to come over to Casa de Murph for movies and popcorn.

We could start with Scott Pilgrim VS The World and then follow it up with Kung Pow, maybe end the evening with Kingpin or The Naked Gun, depending on what the 3 year old wants to watch.

Old Monty

December 14th, 2011
3:19 pm

At the risk of raising DOB’s hackles (and, admittedly, I’m just a casual reader of the blog so I don’t know if restrained tone of Najeh on this specific day is representative of his usual posts), but I do see ND’s one point on breaking down what we know of current individual Braves salaries and then speculating on what might or might not be reasonable expectation-wise for adding players/salary to next year’s roster. I trust DOB instincts and ability to provide a reliable guess based on his knowledge and would read/absorb the information with understanding that it was his opinion and subject to change based on the whims and actions of the Braves organization.

In doing so, it might give some of his contacts in the organization the ability to leak him additional information as to whether or not he was off base/close on his guess without drawing the wrath of the Liberty Media parent. Considering that it can’t be much more than a 10-12 million difference one way or the other, such information wouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that deals with the club on salary matters (agents, other clubs, etc) anyway.

It might be worth a shot.

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:20 pm

Hello everyone! Murph buddy how’s it going? I happen to agree with your post about Adam Jones.We would have one heck of a line up with him,and Bourn together,and people have no clue when they bash Adam Jones.

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
3:20 pm

“A closer look at Adam Jones Home/Road splits for the last 3 years”

Ok, not that I want to read all of that, but I’m betting it confirms he still sucks and isn’t worth Prado OR Jurrjens.

Gone Viral

December 14th, 2011
3:20 pm

The best gift I ever gave my wife is a Ramona Flowers star purse.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:22 pm

After the crazy cold / hot / cold streaks from the past couple years bringing on both Glaus and Uggla I’d be happy with a guy that just plays consistant.

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:23 pm

Bourn leadind off,and Adam Jones batting 2nd. Great idea.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
3:23 pm

Jones has actually slugged slightly better than Prado in his time in the majors… and that’s at a younger age (Jones being 2 years younger). Jones has more HR power than Prado 10P

i think Jones slugging % goes down 40 points at least playing in the Ted

Jimmy Crack

December 14th, 2011
3:24 pm

lol Thanks for the replies. I guess I’m just in football mode. Come springtime, I will slow my metabolism down for the Grand Old Game with all its pitchouts, mound meetings, brow wipings and ballscratchings.

By the way, Adam Jones is a great person as well as a great player stuck on a bad team.

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:24 pm

Just imagine Bourn 1,and Adams Jones 2 in the line up? That would be scary.

Patrick

December 14th, 2011
3:25 pm

Man, outside of south florida and orange county

this has been one seriously boring offseason

MFin04

December 14th, 2011
3:25 pm

“Bourn leading off,and Adam Jones batting 2nd. Great idea.”

Yep gotta love the high strike out, .320 on base percentage guy batting 2nd in the lineup.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:27 pm

Pardon me for not knowing, but the Orioles haven’t been relevant in years…….does Adam Jones hit 2nd in their line-up? I’d love a proven #2 hitter just for Bourn’s sake. I know the Prado lovers will just say it’s him……..but lets move on from Prado. He’s worth too much as an infielder to plug our outfield hole. Loved having him as a Brave but Uggla in, Chipper staying around just doesn’t work for the guy.

Bat Masterson

December 14th, 2011
3:27 pm

1) Get rid of intentional walks. If the pitcher makes a 4-finger symbol, the batter takes first base. _ Jimmy Crack

And eliminate something like this from ever happening again, uh hell no.

A Babe Ruth Story

In 1923, Bassler was part of one of the great trick plays in baseball history. When Babe Ruth came to bat, player-manager Ty Cobb whistled a signal to Bassler and pitcher Hooks Dauss from center field, directing them to give Ruth an intentional walk. When Dauss threw a strike past Ruth, Cobb ran to the infield, yelling at Dauss and Bassler for disobeying his order. When Dauss then threw a second strike past Ruth, Cobb raced in again, stomped around and pulled both Dauss and Bassler from the game. After warming up, the relief pitcher fired a third strike past an unsuspecting Ruth. Cobb reportedly doubled up in laughter, calling it a “once in a lifetime setup play.” (Al Stumpf, “Cobb: The Life and Times of the Meanest Man Who Ever Played Baseball” (1994), p. 350)

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:28 pm

Saw some Hiigh lights on Adam Jones D,and he can flat out catch the ball.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:28 pm

The best gift I ever gave my wife is a Ramona Flowers star purse.

That’s awesome! My wife unfortunately hates the movie, not because it’s a bad movie, but because I watch it EVERY time it’s on one of the movie channels.

I’m slightly obsessed with Knives Chau. Just a little bit.

“He punched the highlights out of her hair!!!”

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:29 pm

Well guy’s I’ll come back later,and Murph be cool,and peace all.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:29 pm

Bat……..great story! Loved that read!

Clearly, we need more trick plays!

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:30 pm

I don’t think Jones fits well into the 2 hole… as others have said, that’s tailor-made for a guy like Prado. Jones would either be a 3 or 5 hitter… or 6 or 7… but not 8.

BB FAN

December 14th, 2011
3:31 pm

I’ll see if this comes out a little easier to read.

A closer look at Adam Jones Home/Road splits for the last 3 years:

ABs 2B HR RBI AVG OBP SLG OPS
2009 Home – 246 12 11 42 .272 .331 .480 .811
2009 Road – 227 10 8 28 .282 .340 .432 .772

ABs 2B HR RBI AVG OBP SLG OPS
2010 Home – 287 14 9 39 .310 .360 .467 .827
2010 Road – 294 11 10 30 .259 .289 .418 .707

ABs 2B HR RBI AVG OBP SLG OPS
2011 Home – 287 18 19 55 .282 .323 .551 .873
2011 Road – 280 8 6 28 .279 .316 .379 .694

The other one was hard to read, we’ll see if this is any better. It’s tough to get the numbers to line up though.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:32 pm

We could start with Scott Pilgrim VS The World and then follow it up with Kung Pow, maybe end the evening with Kingpin or The Naked Gun, depending on what the 3 year old wants to watch.

Could I still have some popcorn, if I just have the lobotomy, instead? :-)

BB FAN

December 14th, 2011
3:32 pm

Oh well, I tried. My point is Jones does have ugly Home/Road splits for the last 3 years. But he might be worth it if the O’s include other pieces.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
3:32 pm

I trust DOB instincts and ability to provide a reliable guess based on his knowledge and would read/absorb the information with understanding that it was his opinion and subject to change based on the whims and actions of the Braves organization.

In doing so, it might give some of his contacts in the organization the ability to leak him additional information as to whether or not he was off base/close on his guess without drawing the wrath of the Liberty Media parentMonty

Since you say you’re only a casual reader of the blog, I can understand where you would have missed the times that I have provided an estimate of what I believed the team had to spend. After the trade of Lowe, I figured the Braves had $7-8 million, assuming they would not tender Moylan.

So I’d still put it at under $10 mill, perhaps $7-8, though I know some others — including Bowman, if I’m not mistaken — have put it at closer to $5 million. I’ve taken into account projected raises for arb guys and McCann’s raise to $11.5 mill.

None of us knows if those estimates are accurate, because we don’t really know if the Braves will actually raise their payroll a bit from last year, as they indicated they probably would. And even last year, depending upon how salaries are computed, the Braves’ payroll has been reported to be anywhere from just under $87 mill to more than $90 mill. So does that mean they spend a little over $87 mill or a little over $90 mill? We don’t know, because they won’t say.

Hope that helps. Oh, and by the way, no one I know fears the wrath of Liberty Media. They probably don’t even know we exist.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:32 pm

I know the kid’s a future big bat in this line-up but Freeman sure has a great eye, consistant average. Is he ever thought of as playing the 2 hole this season while Uggle/McCann/Chipper plug up the middle? I’d hate to see Freeman buried down in the 6-7 spot….he has such a great approach at the plate.

Jim

December 14th, 2011
3:33 pm

Thanks BB Fan for stats. Question: given his age, does AJ have more upside than downside. I think the former – even in ATL asopposed to Baltimore. If we make assumption that Prado has more value as a 2B than as a LF, or even 3B, and that JJ is healthy but, nevertheless, just one of Braves’ six or seen legit SP for 2012, then Braves have a lot of value to trade. Braves need a power-hitting OF. And, Braves need certainty at SS. That’s 2012. Pastornicky will be a better prospect in 2013, but a 3-year solution – Hardy – is a much better bet. With Simmons in minors, it may be reasonable to pencil him in for 2015, or ‘14 (at 3B). Going forward, Braves need to find 2013 and forward CF and 3B. Betemit is still young. He might be very solid in 2013-2014. Obviously, both teams can decorate around the edges, but this deal, or something like it, is probably a win-win for both teams.

Gone Viral

December 14th, 2011
3:33 pm

Have you read the books? Knives get a lot more play in the books than in the movie.

Jimmy Crack

December 14th, 2011
3:35 pm

Bat, the same thing, sort of, happened to Johnny Bench in the World Series…

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2011/07/08/how-dick-williams-fooled-johnny-bench/

Murph

December 14th, 2011
3:36 pm

I haven’t read the books… will definitely check them out, though.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:37 pm

It’s tough to get the numbers to line up though.

TennPaul has the highly-secret voodoo on that. When you see his moniker, ask him to spill it.

Bat Masterson

December 14th, 2011
3:38 pm

Fols_

I’m glad you enjoyed the story, I agree it would be fun to see some trick plays here and there.

abwright

December 14th, 2011
3:39 pm

DOB could prolly cut and paste the stuff on this blog about payroll and create an entirely new and uninteresting blog, “Braves Payroll … Still Uncertain. No one will really know til after the Season. Cause, don’t you know, things change! Trades happen! Players get injured and insurance pays!”

Blog after that could be an attendance blog. woo, woo.

DOB, please quit arguing with the idjits! When you cut and paste their gibberish, it pulls down the overall intellectual cred of your response.

abwright

December 14th, 2011
3:41 pm

BTW … Monty’s comment wasn’t one of the idjit comments I was commenting on.

Old Monty

December 14th, 2011
3:41 pm

DOB: It does. Thanks for the info.

raleighbravefan

December 14th, 2011
3:42 pm

As a (nearly) daily follower of this excellent forum, I believe the overwhelming majority of p[articipants fall into 2 groups:

1) A majority of Braves fans here, which I call the “Voices of Reason”, (and we can all name them) Believe that the Braves are a well run organization, and one of the top teams in baseball. Althoiugh improvements can always be made, they are a good ballance of talented young guys, and some very good veterans. Pithcing staff is in top 2-3 in baseball, with the bullpen probably #1. Great talent on the farm. We would all love the payroll to be higher, but it is reasonable compared to the current team revenue. Wren has done a great job with the constraints he has to work with. Liberty Media, leaves him and the FO alone, and lets them run the team. Barring unexpected injuries, Braves should be in the thick of the playoff race again. We also expect wren to make some moves to improve the team.

2) Relatively small group of very loud, unhappy “fans” (who I call the clueless, the whiners, and the trolls, AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) who think there is, or should be no limit to the payroll, that Wren, and Freddi are incompetent idiots, and that most of the players are overpaid, and incompetent. They feel that anyone but Wren would have traded almost everyone we have for every player they can think of on other teams, and picked up every free agent available. No move will ever make them happy.

I say to group #2, as Monk would say, “you may be right, but I don’t think so.”

Bat Masterson

December 14th, 2011
3:43 pm

Just imagine Bourn 1,and Adams Jones 2 in the line up? That would be scary. _ Ward

Yeah just thinking about watching those two guys strikeout scares me.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:43 pm

Speaking of attendance, I must say, last summer’s trip to Atlanta was something else.

Weekday series vs the Giants, playoff race on the line, yes I got to see 3 wins, yes I got to see a Prado walk off hit the night after a Freeman walk off hit (on the day I bought his player T mind you)……but man sports just are not the same in an empty ball park.

Hopefully we get off to a great start and get that place some rear ends in the seats!

RC

December 14th, 2011
3:43 pm

Uh-oh….there is a lot less grittiness available on the free agent market now:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/red-sox-to-sign-nick-punto-.html

Slowhiteguy

December 14th, 2011
3:43 pm

Punto signs with Red Sox

BravoMan

December 14th, 2011
3:43 pm

Man I wanted Nick Punto….

daniel buck

December 14th, 2011
3:44 pm

Intellectual Cred….. I believe DOB may even take exception at those words

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
3:44 pm

Carlos Quentin, Andre Ethier, Nick Swisher, Josh Hamilton Those four corner bats will be free agents next offseason. B.J. Upton, Michael Bourn, Angel Pagan will be the premier centerfielders available. Erick Aybar and Stephen Drew will be the shortstops available. Howie Kendrick and Kelly Johnson are the second baseman. Miguel Montero, Russell Martin, Yadier Molina, Mike Napoli will be the catchers. Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, Shaun Marcum, Francisco Liriano, Anibal Sanchez, Jonathan Sanchez, John Danks, Fausto Carmona, Ryan Dempster, Jeremy Guthrie, Colby Lewis, Brandon McCarthy, Jake Peavy, Randy Wolf, and Carlos Zambrano for starters. Francisco Rodriguez, Jonathan Broxton, Brandon League, Huston Street, Jose Valverde, Mike Adams, and Sean Marshall for relievers.

Ward

December 14th, 2011
3:44 pm

Latest as of 1hour ago Braves offered J.J.and Prado for J.J. Hardy, Adam Jones,and Nolan Reimold. We just have to wait to see what happens now?Talk tonight,and peace my friends.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:46 pm

Uh-oh….there is a lot less grittiness available on the free agent market now

What about spunk, though? Is the market still OK on spunk? :-)

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
3:46 pm

Carlos Quentin, Andre Ethier, Nick Swisher, Josh Hamilton Those four corner bats will be free agents next offseason. B.J. Upton, Michael Bourn, Angel Pagan, Shane Victorino will be the premier centerfielders available. Erick Aybar and Stephen Drew will be the shortstops available. Howie Kendrick and Kelly Johnson are the second baseman. Miguel Montero, Russell Martin, Yadier Molina, Mike Napoli will be the catchers. Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, Shaun Marcum, Francisco Liriano, Anibal Sanchez, Jonathan Sanchez, John Danks, Fausto Carmona, Ryan Dempster, Jeremy Guthrie, Colby Lewis, Brandon McCarthy, Jake Peavy, Randy Wolf, and Carlos Zambrano for starters. Francisco Rodriguez, Jonathan Broxton, Brandon League, Huston Street, Jose Valverde, Mike Adams, and Sean Marshall for relievers.

Forgot Shane-O. Flyin Hawiian.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:46 pm

I live a little too close to Minneapolis…..and when they had a healthy good team….they HATED Punto. I doubt he’d do anything for us to forget Gonzo’s bat.

Slowhiteguy

December 14th, 2011
3:47 pm

Punto 3.5 M 2 years according to Heyman

Efrim

December 14th, 2011
3:48 pm

Two years, 3.5 million for Nick Punto. Looks like it’s Ronny Cedeno or bust. :)

Bat Masterson

December 14th, 2011
3:48 pm

Jimmy Crack _

Ha, if I ever heard that story I had forgotten it. Thanks, good stuff.

Slowhiteguy

December 14th, 2011
3:49 pm

Ronnie Cedeno?

DAP

December 14th, 2011
3:49 pm

ward Just imagine Bourn 1,and Adams Jones 2 in the line up? That would be scary.

yeah, scary for braves fans. ward, we established before you got here that trading for jones is a terrible idea. its been settled…more or less.

fols does Adam Jones hit 2nd in their line-up?

jones got most of his ABs last season batting 3rd, which says alot more about the orioles than it does adam jones.

BravesFanSince1982

December 14th, 2011
3:49 pm

“Two years, 3.5 million for Nick Punto. Looks like it’s Ronny Cedeno or bust.”

Don’t forget Theriot.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
3:50 pm

Two years, 3.5 million for Nick Punto. Looks like it’s Ronny Cedeno or bust

Shoot, he probably wants four-and-two his own self, LOL. I mean, dang. Seems like a SS glove and a pulse gets you that.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:52 pm

Thanks DAP, I thought Rafael Palmeiro was hitting third. That’s about the last time i’ve read an Orioles box score!

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
3:52 pm

Carlos Quentin, Andre Ethier, Nick Swisher, Josh Hamilton Those four corner bats will be free agents next offseason. B.J. Upton, Michael Bourn, Angel Pagan, Shane Victorino will be the premier centerfielders available. Carlos Lee and James Loney for first baseman. Erick Aybar and Stephen Drew will be the shortstops available. Howie Kendrick and Kelly Johnson are the second baseman. Miguel Montero, Russell Martin, Yadier Molina, Mike Napoli will be the catchers. Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Zack Greinke, Shaun Marcum, Francisco Liriano, Anibal Sanchez, Jonathan Sanchez, John Danks, Fausto Carmona, Ryan Dempster, Jeremy Guthrie, Colby Lewis, Brandon McCarthy, Jake Peavy, Randy Wolf, and Carlos Zambrano for starters. Francisco Rodriguez, Jonathan Broxton, Brandon League, Huston Street, Jose Valverde, Mike Adams, and Sean Marshall for relievers.

Forgot Carlos Lee, Marlon Byrd, Melky Cabrera, Marco Scutaro, Maicier Izturis and James Loney. That makes it 45 players in free agency. Pretty good list if you ask me.

Slowhiteguy

December 14th, 2011
3:53 pm

If Punto get 2-3.5M, Theriot would command more. I think he is out.

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
3:54 pm

Punto 2-yr, $3 mill w/ Red Sox. Another off the Braves’ list.

Cedeno still available in the backup SS/utility mold. He’s been on their list as well.

BravesfaninWis

December 14th, 2011
3:55 pm

Wasn’t Nick Punto supposedly a target for the Braves as their backup shortstop? Well, he just signed with the Red Sox. Go figure, nothing has been said all week long about the Braves except the usual Prado and Jurrgens trade talk. So while the Braves front office continues to stick their hands up their collective arses, another potential target slips away.

I hope after the Braves crash and burn next season those sorry arse excuses for owners Liberty Media sells the team that actually wants to own a pro sports team for what its actually meant to be and that’s passion for the game instead of a f’n tax break. When the new owners get in, consider firing Frank Wren. He has done some good things, some not so good things, and I know he is handcuffed by the owners, but make a damn move already. I am so sick and tired of supporting this predictable franchise and watching them choke year after year. And yes, I consider making the playoffs and winning your division 14 straight years with only 1 WS Title to show for it as CHOKING.

brian

December 14th, 2011
3:55 pm

at the time Black hit #1, how many other songs reached #1 without appearing on a full album?

BravePack

December 14th, 2011
3:55 pm

Fols

I agree with your Freeman observation and agree. In fact I’ve been saying he will be a better hitter than Heyward in the Bigs. His ability to go the other way like Chipper and hit the gaps is amazing and we have yet to see that from Heyward as far as going to left field. Freeman should be the next great #3 hitter in the line-up after Chipper.

STRETCH

December 14th, 2011
3:56 pm

Red Sox To Sign Nick Punto
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 14 at 2:41pm CST]
The Red Sox have agreed to sign Nick Punto to a two-year deal, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (Twitter links). The contract guarantees Punto $3MM and offers him the chance to earn an additional $500K in incentives, Heyman reports.

YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT THEY DONT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO SIGN SOMEONE LIKE THAT? WHO ARE THEY LOOKING FOR ALEX CORA, OMAR VIZQUEL?!

Fols

December 14th, 2011
3:57 pm

BravesfaninWis

Your all worked up cause they let Punto sign somewhere? Yikes….you needed a few more hugs from your mom.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
4:01 pm

BravePack

Thanks! I know it’s not the long-term but we already know that Uggla, McCann and Jones are the 3,4,5 hitters on most nights.

Freeman can hit 6 and he’d do well, but if he can bat with Bourn bouncing around on 1st base……i’d love to see him in the 2 spot. Only because it’s not his time to take over the heart of the order.

Watching him in the batters box, so solid, you just see why he had success in the bigs. Heyward bounces around a little too much, for a big guy he looks so skinny and dangly up there without any confidence. I’ll take Freeman’s approach anyday. He’s ready, he connects.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
4:02 pm

his could mean moving Michael Bourn to left and allowing Jones to play center. Bowden

this makes no sense since metrics show Bourn as a good defender and Jones as a poor one in CF.
Sometimes i wonder about this guy

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
4:03 pm

STRETCH, I don’t even think you wanted Punto, you just want to complain.

BravesFanSince1982

December 14th, 2011
4:05 pm

Couldn’t Jones play LF?

I know it won’t happen, but a poster earlier talked about Hardy and Jones for JJ and Prado. Now, that’s a good lineup.

CF Bourn
SS Hardy
3B C. Jones
2B Uggla
C McCann
LF A. Jones
1B Freeman
RF Heyward

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:07 pm

this makes no sense since metrics show Bourn as a good defender and Jones as a poor one in CF.
Sometimes i wonder about this guy

What’s left to wonder? Bowden’s history as a GM with both Cincy and Washington should tell you just about all you need to know about his analysis. I’m actually suprised at this point when he makes a suggestion that I don’t immediately dimiss as a terrible idea.

Hillbilly

December 14th, 2011
4:09 pm

Holy hell.

Nick. Punto. Break out the McLouth-Candles.

Fols

December 14th, 2011
4:14 pm

As Freddie Freeman’s BFF today…….I hate to see him buried that low in a batting order……but that’s pretty good.

1995 was 16 years ago

December 14th, 2011
4:14 pm

I’m glad we didn’t get Punto. He’s basically another Rafael Belliard. Keppinger is the guy I want, though I don’t know if he’s even on the Braves’ radar screen. I would imagine he’d be a little pricier than Punto, because Keppinger more fits the profile of an everyday player.

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:15 pm

Our #1 option to sign as SS is a guy who wasn’t good enough for the Pirates. Yeesh.

The strange part is that I don’t think there was really anything else that could have been done. With the crazy contracts that have been handed out to career backups this winter and the incredibly shallow pool of human being capable of playing SS, going with Pastornicky and hoping for the best really is our best option probably. Unless there is some way to free up some payroll for Jimmy Rollins, but we all know that’s not going to happen.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
4:16 pm

It hasn’t been as bad as many others on here would want you to believe, either…murph

not quite, but Camden is usually something of a homer park and usually the Ted isn’t. For a modern CFer he is likely one of the better hitters even with the crappy OBP. but that is more an indictment of modern CFers than a complement to him. and he needs to station himself farther back to begin with since his deep stats are so poor

Fols

December 14th, 2011
4:19 pm

RC, the only real problem I see with that, is the Jason Heyward factor. If he doesn’t bounch back, we have a third of our line-up as Hey/Past/Pitcher not to mention we don’t yet know who’s playing LF. If we bring in a guy, he’ll get the Braves jersey curse and have a rough go at it.

This is a pretty critical year if Braves management want one more post-season appearance for Chipper. If Heyward wasn’t such a question mark right now it would make the decision a lot easier to plug in as the #8 hitter.

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:19 pm

Did Jack Wilson sign yet? I know he can’t hit his weight, but he is a good glove man, can play 3b and 2b as well as SS, and seems to be a nice enough guy. Plus, with Peter Moylan possibly gone, who on the team is ugly enough to make Eric Hinske feel attractive every now and then?

Lollygagger

December 14th, 2011
4:21 pm

I think it’s becoming clear that since he had plenty of opportunity to sign Punto but didn’t, could have traded for Lowrie or Scutaro but didn’t, then let Conrad go… Wren has a plan for the infield. Something besides his arm is up his sleeve. Just because he has been quiet so far doesn’t mean he hasn’t laid out plans for numerous trades/signings. He’s just waiting to see if anything better comes up while he waits for answers on prior conversations.

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:21 pm

Fols,

If Heyward doesn’t bounce back, I don’t think the Braves have enough in the tank to make a serious run at the playoffs anyway. There are certain things that the team simply has to hope for, because if they don’t happen we are in trouble anyway.

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:22 pm

I think it’s becoming clear that since he had plenty of opportunity to sign Punto but didn’t, could have traded for Lowrie or Scutaro but didn’t, then let Conrad go… Wren has a plan for the infield.

Yeah, I think you are probably right. Maybe he’s going to sign Ken Griffey Jr.!

(sorry, that was uncalled for….but funny)

nolie

December 14th, 2011
4:24 pm

c’mon najeh. DOB can be snarky and defensive and surly and….gee that sounds familiar :lol:
but the guy puts in tremendous hours and gives us all the info that he can.
can’t really ask for more than he puts out

Brave New World

December 14th, 2011
4:24 pm

DOB: Thanks for “highlighting” the sad little comments of “Mr. Frisky.” I’m sure he’s enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. People like Mr. Frisky could learn a lesson in class from a guy like Brooks Conrad – if only they cared to learn.

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:24 pm

If the Yankees sign the Japanesse SS they won the posting for, maybe that frees them up to trade Edwardo Nunez.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
4:28 pm

maybe wren didnt want to go two years for punto. its understandable.

Lollygagger

December 14th, 2011
4:29 pm

Maybe he’s going to sign Ken Griffey Jr.!

Nah, we already have a “kid” at SS… ;)

Brava

December 14th, 2011
4:29 pm

Damn you, Mr. Wren! Are you proud of yourself? You’ve gone and let Nick Punto slip through your fingers like some greasy chicken leg. We could have been a contender, but no, you didn’t have the courage to pull the trigger and you got outgunned by the other historically collapsible team. When will you learn? Without Punto, we are doomed to a season of ridicule and mediocrity. What a shameful day to be a Braves fan. I’m not sure I can recover from this. I feel violated. :cry:

rainman34

December 14th, 2011
4:29 pm

I like Drew Sutton that we picked up. I think he will be our answer at util.

charles

December 14th, 2011
4:30 pm

MLB Network is reporting deal is off. Just a rumor that has been shot down.

keylargo

December 14th, 2011
4:30 pm

DOB: I know you probably have seen the post from Ken Rosenthal about a possible deal between the Orioles and Braves. Do you think a deal of Prado, JJ and Pastornicky for Adam Jones and JJ Hardy is a equitable swap?

I have often wondered why in so many of the proposed trades on the blog, the REAL actual lynch pin is treated like an afterthought. Pastornicky is the primary reason for the trade because Wren is not sure if he is a MLB SS or not. Get JJ Hardy in here and SS is taken care of for two years. Well, in two years JJ Hardy will be gone and the powers that be will know if Pastornicky can get more than 1 hit every 4 AB’s and catch more than 47 of 50 balls. Unfortunate since he’s in Baltimore.

So Prado is gone, JJ Hardy is gone, JJ Jurrjens is gone and Pastornicky is gone. Maybe Adam Jones will sign a long term deal and stay. We do a lot of that you know.

Lollygagger

December 14th, 2011
4:35 pm

Didn’t realize the deal was ever “on.”

RC

December 14th, 2011
4:37 pm

I don’t know why people are so worried about Pastornicky’s long-term value. It’ll likely be as either a trade piece or a backup IF once Andrelton Simmons is ready for the majors. He is Gonzo-like with his defense, and has a nearly Furcal-level arm. Bat is the only question for him, and even then it’s simply can he hit enough to not be a total embarrassment, because the defense is enough to get him on the field.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
4:40 pm

I’m pretty sure that “Punto Uggla” is a very offensive phrase in Latin America, and that is why he was not signed.

Every time the opposition hit into a DP it would have led to riots in the Dominican.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
4:40 pm

The man has no shame….scoots

he also watches the crappiest reality shows on tv, course they are ALL crappy. but Murph’s tv taste is as atrocious as his taste in ballplayers………….

Hillbilly

December 14th, 2011
4:44 pm

Wow, Murph’s CBI dropping like a sack of potatoes. Tough crowd. Chin up, Murph.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
4:49 pm

This “Chipper in the third hole by default” thinking has got to STOP. If we were fortunate enough to get Adam Jones via trade, he has to hit in the third hole; he is not the patient two-hole hitter you need to replace Prado if he were to depart via trade. If Prado were to leave, and the Braves were unable to obtain a SS that gets walks and has a decent OBP (honestly, where is that guy?), then you would have no choice but to place Chipper in the 2-spot – an undesirable option for a team that wants to get quicker and more athletic.

Losing Prado affects two fielding positions and two spots in the order. Be careful what you wish for if Chipper is forced to hit in the upper third of the order. Chipper’s body is a train wreck that cannot handle the rigors of 120 full games, let alone 140-150 games in 2012. When Chipper is out next season – and that will be often – it will always throw off Fredi’s best laid plans.

They better find someone that can play 3B as a “backup” STAT!

raleighbravefan

December 14th, 2011
4:49 pm

Murph – I still think you’re OK.

Josh

December 14th, 2011
4:52 pm

charles, who even said a deal was on? did i miss someone saying that?

NickB

December 14th, 2011
4:53 pm

No worries on Punto, there are still several alternative options out there.

I cast much doubt on the rumored Jones/Hardy for Prado/JJ deal… I imagine the Orioles would want someone like Vizcaino or Hoover at minimum along with someone like Bethancourt (and they would throw in a prospect as well). I don’t really see how this matches up . Jones would be an OK CF’er in 2013 but a step down as far as total value goes due to his mediocre D. Hardy would be a great pickup at SS however….

It is all too good to be true IMO, and I don’t see a match there.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
4:53 pm

@Lew I’m gonna try to calmly explain to you my position and I hope I don’t make this too complicated for you. I’m not obsessed with payroll, I’m really not its how you spend it. D. Lowe McClouth and Kawakami were not good spendatures. But The Braves have a good team no doubt but with the collapse they had last season changes are needed. Now the change they really needed to make was to fire Gonzalaz but since he is too “Buddy Buddy” with the good ole boys here thats not gonna happen. Then where do you go, obviously you bring some new players. IMO the Free Agent market didn’t have any players I saw to go after. But we have tradable assests to go after another outfield bat or a SS in Jurrjens and Prado (although I really don’t want to trade Prado) But Jurrjens is expendable and we should have and could have made a move. Also with the way the bullpen got burned out last season we need more arms andanother closer type to take the load off of O’Ventrbrel. Because if not we will have 1 of them go down next year with Tommy John surgery. Now I’ve gone an entire post without insulting you or being angry. Now can you go an entire post without being a tool and a complete spaz, thanks and god bless.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
4:54 pm

yeah Murph is a good egg as far as eggs run

…but then, who likes runny eggs?

and no way Adam Jones hits third.he’ll be luchy to hit 750 in the Ted
Chipper had the second highest OPS on the team no reason to think he wouldn’t start the season hitting third anyway

tiger297

December 14th, 2011
4:56 pm

nolie – but chipper is older now…so he sucks

come on man keep up :D

Jbailz

December 14th, 2011
4:56 pm

I think a JJ, Pastornicky and Prado for Jones, Hardy and a bench player would benefit the Braves in several areas. I know Prado is a God to people and I love him too but Jones and Hardy have pop and are solid defensively. I’d like to see both of them in Braves unis.

Mister Frisky

December 14th, 2011
4:57 pm

Brave New World,I’ve never once on this blog took a shot at any other blogger.A couple of times at DOB he is gracious and can take the ribbing.The players all the time that goes with being a public figure.You stay classy my friend.

No Denero

December 14th, 2011
4:57 pm

With the quality of names of players being thrown around like Cedeno & Keppinger I’m thinking Liberty Media has like $50 bucks to spend not $8 million. $8 million could get them Jimmy Rollins.
Red Sox passed on Cedeno because his hands and a bat have never met. He can’t hit period.

tiger297

December 14th, 2011
4:57 pm

BTW I just renewed my season tickets so now that Wren knows that this is where he trades JV.

Sorry for making everybody wait but its the way it had to be.

No Denero

December 14th, 2011
4:58 pm

DOB went off old school on Mister Frisky & Najeh ! LMAO !

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
4:59 pm

Brava, your 4:29 p.m. comment made me laugh. Because I was thinking same thing after reading some of these other overwrought assessments of the situation. I mean, who’d have thunk Nick Punto could get people revved up?

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
4:59 pm

By the way, the O’s will be more apt to trade Hardy than Jones. Jones is the known commodity with club control; Hardy is the one year wonder they’ll trade in a heartbeat for pitching. If the Braves leave this negotiation with only Hardy, they’re idiots. They want Adam Jones, and can find a veteran SS in ST to back up / split time with Pastornicky, who will not disappoint in the 8 hole while he gets his OJT / audition.

RC

December 14th, 2011
5:01 pm

With the quality of names of players being thrown around like Cedeno & Keppinger I’m thinking Liberty Media has like $50 bucks to spend not $8 million. $8 million could get them Jimmy Rollins.
Red Sox passed on Cedeno because his hands and a bat have never met. He can’t hit period.

I think it’s not so much that the Braves don’t want to spend $8 million this year on Rollins, but they don’t want to commit to him for $8 million for each of the next 4 years.

That said, I do think they would be well served to go ahead and offer Rollins a 4-year, $8 million per deal. He could very easily turn that down, but if he does you are at least ensuring that the Phillies have to beat that price to acquire him next year. And if you get him, let Pastornicky be the backup SS (or season him more at AAA), and go with the outfield alignment you’ve currently got. While it’d be nice to have some power from LF, adding Rollins bat at SS makes up the difference, and you get to keep Prado and JJ.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:04 pm

gotta pass on Rollins. guy is not even quite an league average and will fade out more over the next few years, plus he would lose pop away from Philly park

Patrick

December 14th, 2011
5:04 pm

It appears that the braves must not have wanted Punto that much, cause it took the Red Sox no time at all to sign him, after they traded Lowrie

No Denero

December 14th, 2011
5:05 pm

And possibly Pastor Nicky could become a 3B after Chipper goes hunting year-round ?

Murph

December 14th, 2011
5:05 pm

I know my tastes in TV and movies are not as high-brow as some of the blog intellectuals, but I’m ok with that… I watch stuff that’s entertaining. If I feel the need to get a “message” from a work of fiction I’ll go spend the day in chur… oops, no religion, no politics.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:06 pm

RC: a decent argument, but the problem is J-Ro’s health. In the past couple of seasons, the guy can’t seem to stay off the DL. At that price, the Braves do not need him.

DAP

December 14th, 2011
5:09 pm

patrick It appears that the braves must not have wanted Punto that much

im sure the two year deal is what did it. braves arent interested in giving a player like punto two years.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:12 pm

Frankly, Gonzo’s defense will be missed next year. The Braves are not a strikeout staff; the ball goes in play quite a bit. You’d be smart next year to sacrifice stick at the SS position in exchange for someone that can get to the ball or keep it in the infield. A young, no-hit guy with plus-plus range is needed if Pastornicky is not the guy that can play “playmaker” SS. Hell, Jack Wilson will make the play 199 times out of 200 if you hit it right to him!

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:12 pm

Murph said he’d play short for a one years contract. might happen yet

Lew

December 14th, 2011
5:15 pm

JMan – I already said whatever. I really don’t care what your concerns are, how smart and resourceful, or analytical you thik you are or what you might think of me, my intelligence, reading comprehension – or quite honestly, what your opinion is of anything at all.

Rant on, Oh Self Important One – maybe someday you will achieve the relevance you alreadyfeel you’ve attained.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:16 pm

Jack’s range figures very good through 2010. didn’t play enough in ‘11 to get a read. no older in ‘12 that Gonzo was in ‘11.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:16 pm

nolie, I hope you are talking about DALE Murphy. :-)

Murph

December 14th, 2011
5:17 pm

Murph said he’d play short for a one years contract. might happen yet

I’m open to the idea, but after my last meeting with Wren, I don’t have high hopes. My agent, the 3 year old, didn’t exactly see eye to eye with Frank. She doesn’t really have the tact to handle back and forth negotiations… there was a lot of foot stomping, throwing things, slamming doors, etc.

No Denero

December 14th, 2011
5:23 pm

Jason Heyward reminds me so much of Terry Harper. Can a stat boy lemme know if their numbers are comparable ? I remember I hated seeing Terry Harper come to the plate…

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:27 pm

By the way, Nolie, in 2010, Alex Gonzalez had a total of 700(!) fielding chances to Wilson’s paltry 287 (less than half!). There is NO comparison between the two – Alex has aged WAAAAAAY better than Wilson, & is the better fielding SS at this stage. Those “range figures” you cited don’t convince me.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:28 pm

Right handed Harper with his crappy OBP reminds you of left handed Heyward who has good plate discipline?

Brava

December 14th, 2011
5:29 pm

But… but…, DOB, I was being completely serious. Dude, I’ve been busy for a week sewing up a giant Punto Bean outfit to wear to the Ted.

Guess, I’ll have to send to my friend up in Boston now. She can wear it to Fenway and tell everyone she’s a Boston Baked Punto Bean, I guess.

This is so depressing. :(

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
5:31 pm

Terry Harper hit .264 17 72 in 1985
Heyward hit .277 18 72 in 2010.

I’d have to say you are right.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:31 pm

I think he meant “in the looks department” (ahem!), nolie.

No Denero

December 14th, 2011
5:32 pm

And Heyward was touted as a Hank Aaron by Bobby Cox & AJC.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
5:33 pm

I like how you act like im your not concerned about what I say but you KEEP replying to me which keeps proving that your a hypocrite.” Mr. I don’t get mad at anything” I have proved that I got under your skin and now you can quit that high almighty egomanical act you got going because yea you don’t get mad at a baseball team, no you get angry at some random blogger that has a different opinion than you. And that was my point everyone has small annoyances and pet peeves and mine is an ownership killing their team just to save a buck and your pet peeve a random guy posting some smack talk to you.

Dude – You’re angry? Seriously? Over a blog poster?

World hunger is a reason to get angry. Losing a loved one to a senseless accident is definitely a reason for anger. Inequality throughout all of humanity is a reason. So is what banking institutions did to the common people. But you get angry over what some guy types about you.

HYPOCRITE!!!
GAME SET MATCH

No Denero

December 14th, 2011
5:34 pm

You can go sew you a big Terd suit now for Terdoslavich !

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:34 pm

according to BillJames site you are wrong. and metrics are more about range than anything else
in 2010 which you just quoted Wilson was credired with 8 runs saved, Gonzalez with +12
in 2009 Wilson lwed baseball with +25, Gonzo had – (minus) 6

Disgusted

December 14th, 2011
5:34 pm

Conrad has been a nice story, but as a MLB player he is marginal. I appreciate his key pinch hits, and give him credit for hanging in the game, if he gets a MLB deal anywhere good luck to him.

Still cannot forget those errors vs the Giants in that series. Tough break for Moylan, but LM has to meet their prime objective of saving money. Maybe he comes back elsewhere, good luck to him.

Adam Jones would be nice but like the Aerosmith song–Dream ON.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:35 pm

Terry Harper hit .264 17 72 in 1985
Heyward hit .277 18 72 in 2010.

I’d have to say you are right…Nerd

I sure hope you are joking

Joe Dirt

December 14th, 2011
5:35 pm

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
5:36 pm

Nope. I Googled it.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:38 pm

looks huh. 6′4 200 vs 6′5 250? ok. closer than as hitters anyway ;)

Disgusted

December 14th, 2011
5:38 pm

Practically speaking, any team that offers Jimmy Rollins more then 3 yrs is taking too much of a risk, he is showing signs of a slow down. Not what he used to be, still good wieh healthy but not the consistently dominant player he was.

Could see him getting 3 yrs at low 30’s mil. Who knows.

Murph

December 14th, 2011
5:38 pm

Dude, I’ve been busy for a week sewing up a giant Punto Bean outfit to wear to the Ted.

One of the funniest things I’ve read on the blog in a long time. :)

Brava

December 14th, 2011
5:39 pm

You can go sew you a big Terd suit now for Terdoslavich !

Great idea! Shouldn’t be too hard to modify by giant Punto Bean into a Terd. Thanks!

Nick

December 14th, 2011
5:40 pm

It appears the Braves are the only team out 30 that refuses to improve its ball club. Is Liberty Media really THAT cheap?? Is there not $1-$5M available to Wren or is his hands truly handcuffed by the worst ownership in all of the four major sports. It would seem that this team is destined to open 2012 with the almost the same exact team that embarrassed us all as Braves fans when they choked historically. This team was a power hitting LF and SS away from finishing 2nd next season (2nd!); now they are relegated to being a 4th place team, at best. In a time, when every other teams payroll is raising and passing us by, we seem to be in a holding pattern with a payroll fit for a team in the mid 90s. Oh well, there’s always 2018.

Chipper Kills Deers

December 14th, 2011
5:40 pm

Jimmy Rollins would be a great addition for 2 years for the Braves.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:40 pm

you are comparing the one year in his career that he played a full season to what Heyward has done and on top of that you are using only HR/RBI/BA, and expecting anybody to accept that? :lol:

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
5:41 pm

Now you’ll get to wear a Turd to the Ted !

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
5:42 pm

Let’s see, both played one full year so far.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:43 pm

unbelievable……. :roll:

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:45 pm

you are comparing Heywards worst year with Harper’s best year and saying they are the same player? :lol:

Sir Don

December 14th, 2011
5:45 pm

IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH I GOT THE TRUTH…………YOU BOTH SUCK THATS THE TRUTH!!!!!

nolie

December 14th, 2011
5:47 pm

you got sumthang allright Donnie

True Dat

December 14th, 2011
5:47 pm

Bobby Cox had alzheimers comparing Heyward to Hank Aaron.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:47 pm

nolie, I am not a high-falutin’ stats guy by any stretch of the imagination; I only know what I see. Not to get into an argument, but when Gonzo plays in 306 games and Wilson plays in only 166 over the same span – for two ball clubs – it means that two organizations did not feel that he was the AS SS he once, was by any stretch of the imagination. All things being equal, if I played once a week, I could make plays too – then spend the next six days in the tub.

Gonzo, for the past two seasons, did it almost every day, which makes him in my mind’s eye, the better SS by a country mile.

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
5:49 pm

Well I only got 1 full year of Heyward’s to compare.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
5:49 pm

Nolie-

I accept that….

THAT he’s an IDIOT :lol:

Jbailz

December 14th, 2011
5:49 pm

Nobody thinks that JJ, Prado and Pastornicky for Hardy, Jones and a Utility INF is a good idea? Everyone is too busy talking s*** to each other?

unbelievable

December 14th, 2011
5:50 pm

nolie, u call?

Jim

December 14th, 2011
5:50 pm

Wren get off your dern hands and make a deal!!!!!

unbelievable

December 14th, 2011
5:51 pm

Jbailz, yes its a great idea but the Orioles wont trade their starting SS and CF’r.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
5:51 pm

@ Sir Don. hahaha I’ll admit I’m a windbag but in case you dont know there is something called the 1st Admendment that allows me to be just that. And granted I think Lews a hypocrite I’m not gonna tell anyone to shut up and die like you just did and even though I disagree with his opinion I give him respect for expressing it and I don’t go to the lowest common denominator. That want too far bro you don’t tell people to fall off a cliff for expressing their opinions man.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
5:55 pm

“You can go sew you a big Terd suit now for Terdoslavich !

Great idea! Shouldn’t be too hard to modify by giant Punto Bean into a Terd. Thanks!”

LOL – from (Punto) bean to Terd, easy-peazy. Just let nature handle the transformation!

(THere, a poop joke for Najeh.)

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 14th, 2011
5:57 pm

Why in the blue hell would a team trade a guy they just signed to a contract extension w/ a no trade clause that they invested quite a bit in?!

ANSWER: THEY WOULDN’T!!

Brava

December 14th, 2011
5:58 pm

LOL, MiaBch. Good one!

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
5:58 pm

In the words of Burt Bacharach. What the world needs now is Love. lol

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
6:00 pm

I wonder if Terdoslavich got picked on in school because of his name?

Disgusted

December 14th, 2011
6:03 pm

I do not disagree with Nick except that there is worse ownership in sports in our own town–The Atlanta Spirit.

The Braves cannot even afford a Nick Punto type, why not just move the Gwinnett Braves to the Ted and charge AAA prices.

Its not like we have a real MLB caliber team compared to what the rest of the division (excluding the Mets) have. Fourth place is what should be expected.

JC Brave

December 14th, 2011
6:03 pm

Is Jim Bowden mentally retarded or just an ignorant idiot?

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:04 pm

I can see the “Turds” section in right field right now at the Ted.

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:05 pm

He would have here in Athens…

nolie

December 14th, 2011
6:06 pm

hahaha nerd. I’m just kidding around. everybody here knows that Heyward and Harper are the exact same hitter. Gotcha!!!

tWard

December 14th, 2011
6:12 pm

Turd’s Terds hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah……………………………………………………………………………………………..ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha………………………………………………………………………………………………………. **Crickets**………………………..

Even Funnier

December 14th, 2011
6:17 pm

tWard = turdWard

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah……………………………………………………………………………………………..ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha………………………………………………………………………………………………………. **Crickets**………………………..

Lemke's Knuckler

December 14th, 2011
6:17 pm

Terdoslavich, Pastornicky, Uggla

And entire future infield of guys whose names resemble the sound of a hard sneeze or cough.

Here Ya Go

December 14th, 2011
6:18 pm

Rangers need a starting pitcher. We have Jair Jurrgens.

From Yahoo sports :

The Texas Rangers are keeping busy right now trying to find a trade that will bring them a starting pitcher rather than throwing all energy into getting Prince Fielder or Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish, Fox Sports reports.

Some of the arms that the Rangers are looking at include Matt Garza of the Chicago Cubs, lefty Gio Gonzalez of the Oakland Athletics and Wade Davis of the Tampa Bay Rays.

extremus

December 14th, 2011
6:18 pm

Best of luck to Brooks Conrad; the guy played hard every time out and you could tell he wanted to make the most of an opportunity that was over a decade in the making (toiling in the minors). My heart ached for him during that 3-error game in the NLCS; as frustrating as it was from a fan’s perspective, I knew it had to be eating at him many times worse, and I appreciate that level of caring in a player.

As for Moylan, he may or may not return, but if not I wish him the best as well; he’s given the Braves a lot more good outings than bad ones, and when he was on he was as shut-down as anybody.

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:22 pm

We really don’t need two more players who have 320 OBP, do we?
.Everybody hated Francouer but Jones is Jeff as a hitter and a rather poor defender too.

rainman34

December 14th, 2011
6:23 pm

I love the team we have now. We will have bourn for the whole year. We have the best bull pin in baseball. A very good rotation. If we can score a few runs we can beat any team any day. Go Braves. Also cant wait to see t-mac in a Hawks uni so call me a homer.

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:23 pm

Tom Glavine announcing in 2013 : “Terd is stinking it up right now with those 3 errors he committed this game.”

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:24 pm

shut down righties anyway. really terrible against lefties. a ROOGY I guess.

Lemke's Knuckler

December 14th, 2011
6:24 pm

What about Jurrjens to the Rangers for Leonys Martin (speedy CF prospect) and Mike Olt (RH 3B prospect with some pop).

Jurrjens would project well in Arlington. They need as many groundball pitchers as they can find in that bandbox.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
6:24 pm

Lou/Earl is getting all bent out of shape pretty badly as the day has gone on. I imagine that sometime later tonight, the meltdown will progress to the point of banning – just like it always does when he finds a new municipal library to post from.

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
6:25 pm

I could picture it now like McCann had the Cans or Randy wolf had the wolfpac maybe Terdoslavich can turn Turner field into the toilet bowl?????? eh >crickets< ok

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:26 pm

What’s up with all the tattoos on Moylan. I’m sure his grand kids are gonna want to be seen out in public with him 20 years from now…

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:28 pm

I’d be on the phone right now with the Rangers if I were Wren.

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:31 pm

I’d tell people my name was pronounced Teroslavich if I were him. the “D” is silent !

nelson

December 14th, 2011
6:31 pm

don , kisss my a.%%$^

good trade prado and jj for jones and hardy

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:33 pm

I agree nelson.

Brave New World

December 14th, 2011
6:34 pm

Since we are comparing Jason Heyward to others, try this:
Heyward (age 20): 18 HR; 72 RBI; .277 BA; .393 OBP
Heyward (age 21): 14 HR; 42 RBI; .227 BA; .319 OBP

Mays (age 20): 20 HR; 68 RBI; .274 BA; .356 OBP
Mays (age 21): 4 HR; 23 RBI; .236 BA; .326 OBP

Willie had some monster years after that modest start. Might be a good idea to wait and see what Jason does over the next few years.

D.Evans Red Pantyman

December 14th, 2011
6:35 pm

I wish MLB had cheerleaders.

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:36 pm

Since 2008, Jurrjens has a 16.5% K rate paired with 8.2% walk rate. His ground ball rate is a less than sterling 44.7%. The only other right-handed starting pitchers with similar rates over that same time frame are Mike Pelfry and Jon Garland. Hardly standout group of hurlers

Nerd

December 14th, 2011
6:38 pm

Yeah, and compare him to Joe Charboneau the one year wonder too. Let’s see, he struck out a ton last year. Just like Terry Harper did. I’ll base his career on what I see not what’s projected.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
6:38 pm

Terrible if Braves trade JJ and Prado for Hardy and Adam Jones. Way too much money and I belive A. Jones is a downgrade in our outfield. Prado in LF is better than A. Jones in LF. We have Bourn in CF…JJ Hardy cost $7Millon.

If Braves are going to spend that much they should get Beltran and keep JJ and Prado. Beltran/Prado/Jurrjens is much beeter than Hardy /Adam Jones, Braves might not be able to afford, but a much better team.

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:39 pm

pretty funny series of posts there nerd. good job.

Waste Of Money

December 14th, 2011
6:40 pm

Can we get Mike Hampton to pitch batting practice for free all year then pick up hot dog wrappers ?
He got paid millions to sit on the bench for 4 years.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
6:40 pm

Prado better OPS in LF not defense, wasn’t clear in post above

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:41 pm

I guess the grass is always greener over yonder.

Waste Of Money

December 14th, 2011
6:42 pm

Beltran stays injured too much.

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:45 pm

he had two injured years followed by plenty of games played. His overall history is not really one of missing a lot of games

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
6:45 pm

I actually think maybe our biggest need is Bull-pen depth

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
6:50 pm

I’m not Lew dont insult me like that you gizzstain

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
6:52 pm

“I wish MLB had cheerleaders.”

The Marlins do, and they are some of the hottest ladies in SoFla – which is saying quite a lot!

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/…/1/index.htm

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
6:53 pm

ColoradoBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
6:53 pm

Waste Of Money

December 14th, 2011
6:42 pm
Beltran stays injured too much.

NO not really… Between 2001 and 2008 Beltran played in at least 140 games each season. That’s 9 out of the past 11 years that Beltran has played at least 140 games. That is very dependable.

In 2012 Beltran has bad knees which limited him to only 81 and 64 games in 09 and 10. Beltran in LF Chipper at 3rd and Prado giving both plenty of rest will be much more productive that Adam ( Francoeur) Jones and JJ Hardy.

If Braves can’t afford Beltran or don’t want to gamble on his knees being healty than that is one thing, but Trading JJ and Prado for Adam Jones and Hardy is a terrible trade

BFChris27

December 14th, 2011
6:56 pm

The Cardinals are nearing a one-year deal with free agent left-hander J.C. Romero, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). MDR Sports Management represents the reliever.

BFChris27

December 14th, 2011
6:56 pm

Romero becoming another Dotel :lol:

Sir Don

December 14th, 2011
6:58 pm

Gizzstain? nice comeback Lew/J-Mam/Lou/Earl how can you use Lou twice anyways Lou, Lew whats your next post name gonna be Loo?

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
6:58 pm

I see that idiot brought along a couple of alter egos again. How desperate must one be to resort to that crap for fun. Have to feel real bad for him even if he is a jerk

J-Man

December 14th, 2011
6:59 pm

I would be worried for any cheerleaders because of foul balls.

Ray

December 14th, 2011
7:00 pm

I don’t ever have a problem with people criticizing and showing their passion for wanting things better.. that’s what we all want. Just put a little of realism in it. I shake my head when I hear.. we didn’t make a trade TODAY so we are not doing anything,,Wren didn’t pull a trade today so he doesn’t want to make the team better etc…. or why can’t Wren trade for this superstar or that superstar.. come on Wren trade Diaz for Matt Kemp… yes that is a bit of an exaggeration but not too far. Remember on a trade, it takes TWO.

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
7:05 pm

foul balls? You mean like they’d get the clap?

BravesfaninWis

December 14th, 2011
7:06 pm

Fols,

I am not worked up because they didn’t sign Punto, I am worked up because they haven’t done a damn thing at all since the season ended. This team has plenty of weaknesses, why haven’t they done a damn thing to address them? That is what I am pissed about. Sick of supporting a team that does nothing.

D.Evans Red Pantyman

December 14th, 2011
7:07 pm

I’d be glad to watch over the cheerleaders in the clubhouse.

phil

December 14th, 2011
7:07 pm

What exactly did useless Moylan and Conman expect?

Huge raises?

Glad to see them gone.

Matty Diaz

December 14th, 2011
7:09 pm

I can handle LF. I guarantee you .235 6 19. You got my word on that.

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
7:10 pm

The last world series game was October 28th.
Pitchers and catchers report to spring training on February 19th.
It is now December 14th.

We only have 2 months and 5 days before players report. I can see why the team should be in such a hurry to get something done.

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
7:13 pm

What exactly did useless Moylan and Conman expect?

Huge raises?

Where did either one say they expected anything? And Peter was actually pretty good when not fighting injury…

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
7:16 pm

LOL – DOB, depends on what you like. The variety is there, and they are pretty & plenty hot. Haven’t been to a game, refuse to do so, but they appeared at a promotional event this year at a local Blue Martini, and they were smokin’! They were selling their calendar, and while a phtog can make anyone look good, their bods were off the meter!

Yep, saw ‘em up close… and liked what I saw. They can eat crackers on my bed a-ny-time!

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
7:16 pm

Peter was great against righties and terrible against lefties. no middle ground

Murph

December 14th, 2011
7:18 pm

How many big trades happen after the 1st of the year but before spring training? I’m sure there have been plenty, but none come to mind.

Not sure why but I usually assume the team that we start the new year with is pretty much the team that goes to spring training. That perception may be why so many are getting antsy… just doesn’t seem to be much that happens around the league after Jan 1.

ncscoots

December 14th, 2011
7:19 pm

Clearly you’ve never seen them up close.

So, we’re saying cheerleaders, baseball players…same level of acumen? :-)

trheel

December 14th, 2011
7:23 pm

Jones would be a nice piece to the puzzle. 26 y.o. on opening day. Plus, he should be heading into his prime years. He’s got good size. 6′3 and 220. 21 HR average the last 3 years. Former GG winner. RH hitter with good power potential.

BraveFaninBC

December 14th, 2011
7:25 pm

Jones’ gold glove was on the same level as Nate’s was I’m afraid.

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
7:33 pm

Clearly you’ve never seen them up close.

At least not pre-game. After 9 innings and 7 gallons of beer…

TennesseePaul

December 14th, 2011
7:35 pm

Ray

December 14th, 2011
7:47 pm

A few yrs ago Wren made it public that they were after Jake Peavy.. many on here complained about FW showing his hand. He doesn’t know what he is doing.. he should not show his hand etc… He took a lot of heat about not getting that done.. and walking away.. Sometimes the best move is not making the move. Now when Frank W does not let us all know exactly who he is talking to or has not pulled the trigger yet, many get all freaked out.

Couch Tater

December 14th, 2011
7:51 pm

Clearly you’ve never seen them up close.

In this age of Blog/Twitter over analysis, Mandy is now tweeting Heather…

@Heatherfish “Hey, Babe!!! Here’s a link to that AJC prick’s blog…Love ya!” 5 minutes ago.

@Mandyfish “Do I have a zit?” 12 seconds ago.

Lew

December 14th, 2011
7:51 pm

Meltdown’s getting closer.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
7:54 pm

Thank you, TNPaul. Your opinion, sir: are they as bad “up close” as Mr. O’Brien would have you believe?

Mountain Braves Fan

December 14th, 2011
8:00 pm

Adam Jones bats right handed but can’t hit lefties. In 2011, Adam Jones had a .665 OPS vs. LHP. In contrast, Nick Swisher had a .957 OPS vs. LHP and Carlos Quentin had a .943 OPS vs. LHP.

Bye Bye Petey

December 14th, 2011
8:13 pm

“Cedeno still available in the backup SS/utility mold. He’s been on their list as well.”

Hope the Braves can do the Cedeno deal. I remember him coming through time after time when called on to fill in!

Well maybe I don’t really remember that.

D man

December 14th, 2011
8:13 pm

Conrad left one year too late… He should be thankful he got another year in the majors last year…

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
8:15 pm

He should be thankful he got another year in the majors last year…

I’m sure he is. Seemed very thankful judging by the comments in the blog story…

JoeBrave

December 14th, 2011
8:19 pm

Wow now folks want another brokendown. Over

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
8:25 pm

Brava: the Baked Punto Beans would’ve fit in well alongside the Freemen’s Seamen fan crew.

reckingball

December 14th, 2011
8:28 pm

cabravesfan @7:13pm………Please do not feed the trolls.

BFChris27

December 14th, 2011
8:29 pm

So what up blog peeps?

Sopheee

December 14th, 2011
8:34 pm

Bye bye, Brooksie & Moylo. It was up and down at times but best wishes to both.

reckingball

December 14th, 2011
8:35 pm

I wonder how high the roof is on that Fish Market, that the Marlins are building(or is it, having built for them)?
Looks like a lot of balls are going to hit the ceiling with the roof closed.

Chief Noc-A- Homa

December 14th, 2011
8:37 pm

No, No say it ain’t so! braves announcers said they were great players!

JoeBrave

December 14th, 2011
8:41 pm

Beltran?really’ just what the Braves need another broken down overpaid bum.

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
8:45 pm

Yankees, Mariners, Blue Jays, Rangers, Cubs and Giants placed bids on Yu Darvish.

BFChris27

December 14th, 2011
8:50 pm

M’s, Rangers and Giants prob front runner as he has a west coast preference.

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
8:52 pm

Chris – It doesn’t matter what his preference is, the team selects the highest $$$ bid.

Zing

December 14th, 2011
8:52 pm

Drop the Carlos Beltran speculation. There’s way too much interest in that guy– see: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Rockies-signing-Carlos-Beltran-;_ylt=Aor1KGnwz3J55TetUVJWJU0RvLYF?urn=mlb-wp262.

The Braves/Wren have shown that they don’t get into bidding wars (at least, not recently). Perfect example is the Hunter Pence / Michael Bourne trades over the summer. Everybody was after Pence (and people speculated that the Braves were after Pence); but it was a charade– the Braves were after Bourne all along.

I think we can expect an off- the-beaten track move from Wren. The Orioles rumors seem close to the truth to me. That kind of came out of nowhere, right? I suspect that’s where we’ll see a trade happen, if one does happen.

But Beltran– too many people are interested. Forget it.

jed

December 14th, 2011
8:54 pm

ryan reynolds got himself covered in tattoos so that “you could get a good idea of my beliefs and stuff.” anybody else get a jesse pinkman vibe off of him?

Bill

December 14th, 2011
8:58 pm

agree Beltran will end up with Rockies, Red Sox, are NYY.

Yes, Wren will come out of the South riding a big White horse with Thunder and fire.

jed

December 14th, 2011
9:04 pm

oops…ryan roberts.

BFChris27

December 14th, 2011
9:08 pm

Jimmy

Oh OK. I am unfamiliar with these kind of rules.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
9:09 pm

JoeBrave

Whose your choice for the Braves?

kenhotlanta

December 14th, 2011
9:17 pm

J C Brave: “Is Jim Bowden mentally retarded or just an ignorant idiot?”.

If that’s the case, he would fit right in around here, there’s been a lot of “and idiots” on here the past few days.

Jimmy

December 14th, 2011
9:24 pm

Twins still in on Cuddyer. If they sign him, maybe they trade Denard Span for a pitcher. Jurrjens for Span?

Bourn/Span/Jones/McCann/Uggla/Freeman/Heyward/Pastornicky

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
9:27 pm

Jimmy-

No. Guy’s got no power, a bad OPS and why did he only play 70 games last year?

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
9:30 pm

rechingball: def. higher than The Trop in Tampa, where old Mr. Smith had fewer balls hitting the side of his house than pop-up’s hitting the ceiling when the Rays played. Looks like a nice place to play ball, but The Fed is down here to investigate the shennanigansthat went on in building this travesty. The great grand children of folks living down here will still be paying for that tax crime of a white elephant. I hope they find those responsible guilty and hang ‘em high – at the stadium, where I will buy a ticket for that event, the only ticket I will buy.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 14th, 2011
9:46 pm

If Cedeño can catch and throw within the zip code of what Gonzo did, then get ‘im, and plug ‘im in the 8-hole – or nine if Huddy is pitching. I want someone who can catch & throw the ball extremely well; the Braves are not going to find a good hitting SS that can field competently in trade w/o giving up the farm.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:10 pm

Man this place died out early tonight.

aBraveVol

December 14th, 2011
10:14 pm

Any chance at all to get someone like Trumbo from the Halos now that they got Albert?? That would be a trade I would be all for and could probably just give up prospects since their rotation is set and so is their lineup.

They have a crowded OF with big contracts that are not likely to move and the top prospect in Trout. So why not move an attractive piece to get prospects. I feel something could get done and am surprised more trade rumors have not surfaced yet with them since their big FA signings

David O'Brien

December 14th, 2011
10:15 pm

Kenny Rosenthal reported that Gonzo’s deal with Milwaukee is for $4 million in 2012 with a $4.25 million option for ‘13 that vests with 525 plate appearances, something he’s done each of the past two seasons.

He made $2.5 mill last season with the Braves.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:17 pm

I see that P’c

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:19 pm

Nolie

Hows it going? I guess everyone had enough of the Adam Jones speculation today.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:20 pm

makes sense I guess. he is definitely a better option than most of the other guys who have been getting 2 year/4-6 million contracts.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:28 pm

I guess the Braves felt more comfortable with Pastornicky over gonzalez heading into 2012 seeming he was only projected to make 3 to 3.5 mil through arbitration. He got about what the market has been this year. They must have felt there was a good chance he would take arbitration.

richbrave

December 14th, 2011
10:29 pm

FALL BALL

AUSTRALIA

No games scheduled.

DOMINICA

No games scheduled.

PUERTO RICO

CAROLINA GIANTS

PH BRAIHAIM MALDONADO [.156 BA] 0-0, 1 BB.

VENEZUELA

ANZOATEGUI INDIANS

DH STEFAN GARTRELL [.205 BA] 0-2, 1 RBI [4], 1 SO. top of the fifth.

CARACAS LIONS

No BRAVES played thru six.

LARA CARDINALS

C JOSE YEPEZ [.212 BA] 1-2, 1 SO. Bottom of the seventh

ZULIA EAGLES

No game scheduled.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:29 pm

pretty good P’c, how ’bout you?
and yeah I burned out on that a good while ago. I’m not a big Jones fan though he is one of the better hitting CFers. I think his slugging would come down some at the Ted and Bill James shows him as a very poor defensive CFer the last three years.
Hardy is ok, though neither gets on base very well, but will the Braves really wanna spend 21 mil on a SS now?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:35 pm

:oops: I got un-burned out, huh? ;)

JC Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:44 pm

And there goes Nick Punto. Thank you, God! :)

brian

December 14th, 2011
10:45 pm

how did AGon double his salary after this past year’s performance? Not quite understanding baseball economics at this time

Steve from OH

December 14th, 2011
10:46 pm

Gotta love baseball. Post a .270 OBP and get a 2MM raise…

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
10:47 pm

Jones won’t happen anyways. It was already written a Orioles person said JJ by himself is not even close to enough to get Jones. That would hopefullly be Wren’s cue to leave.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
10:49 pm

wasn’t just about Gonzo, he held off till a buncha lesser guys were getting two year deals for 2-3 mil per, and since he was better than most of them he got more. I think he played that well. I also think that the Braves figured from the start that he would get noticeably more than 2.5 per which is why they made no effort.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:50 pm

nolie

I’m doing pretty good. Busy already getting stuff set up for my boys next summer. I like Jones but don’t find him worth both JJ and Prado. I think he’d be fine here but the jury is still out to see how he develops. He has the capabilities to hit over .800 OPS if he matures into a more full hitter. I’m not sold we are going to find anything better than what we have now. I don’t follow the metrics to much so but I know I’ve seen Jones make plays that will make your jaw drop.

JC Brave

Punto won’t knock your socks off but when it comes to the defensive SS that were available FA he was probably the best available all around gamer.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
10:51 pm

Middle infield market is pretty high right now. Punto landed a $3 million dollar contract after making $750K last year.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
10:52 pm

JC Brave, well then who do you think they’ll get for a stop gap to TP at short? Doesn’t seem anything better than Punto is coming here anyways.

JC Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:02 pm

Well, not another invisible bat at the position, for example. But they’re gonna get a cheap, no offense, average glove bum anyways, so who cares?

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:02 pm

won’t surprise me too awful much if it ends p being Hichs with the current prices going around, maybe Ceneno.
I keep an eye on the Bill James metrics for guys that I don’t see very often. Over the years I have found that it pretty much agrees with my appraisals and with what happens.
What has been killing Jones is his deep numbers. Thats what killed McCutchen’s numbers for two years and this year they said he was setting up deeper to begin with and his numbers improved quite a lot. Perhaps Jones should try that

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:06 pm

I think maybe Andruw’s shallow style of play influenced some fast young guys into thinking that was the cool way to play center, but although they have the speed almost none of them had the great jump and arrow straight routes that Druw had.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:08 pm

nolie

Thats true. There aren’t many that can go back on the ball like Druw could. He sure was fun to watch patrol CF.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:10 pm

Andruw was unreal. He literallly glided to wherever the ball was hit and almost always made the play. Yeah, he got the best jumps and near perfect routes. Had to because he wasn’t exactly a burner.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:10 pm

Willingham is in Minnesota for physical. Reported yesterday that it is believed to be in the 3 yr 21 mil range. Suprised that he will only get around 7 mil.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:13 pm

I thought 7-8 mil, in fact I said a coupla times that he was about the only 800+ hitter that the Braves actually had a chance of affording if they wanted to stretch payroll a bit like Wren claimed might happen

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:14 pm

There is a reality show on vh1 called “baseball wives”. Some of these chicks were with guys like Quentin McCracken, Kris Benson, Chuck Knoblauch, Ron Villone and one nasty looking chick dated Nyger Morgan.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:15 pm

guy can hit, and he probably misses less time than Cruz who everybody here loves.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:16 pm

As much interest or as much as the Braves have been linked to Willingham in the past I figured they would definitely be more involved with him this offseason.

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
11:17 pm

TnBrian-

Anna Benson is Kris’s wife. They’ve actually been married for a while now. Read an interview with her- they seem to have a unique but surprisingly stable marriage. Not that I have any interest in the show- she’s not exactly…

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:17 pm

Seems every offseason, or every other one, Willingham comes up a FA or trade bait and we have the need for a corner OF bat, yet they pass on him every time. Gotta be his bad back they’re scared of. Guy can hit, but an injury scare.

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:21 pm

cab, my wife is watching this show right now and these women are pure trash. One of them is actually normal and she’s pretty. Not sure who her ex is.

cabravesfan

December 14th, 2011
11:23 pm

TnBrian-

That was my impression just reading about it (a friend sent me the link to the Anna Benson interview)- It was actually an interesting interview, even if she didn’t come off as the most…intelligent of women. As for the rest of them…I can only imagine

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:25 pm

I’m so mean sometimes. But damn, they come on national tv acting worse than wild animals and people will say things.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:26 pm

Suprised by the Cubs interest in Coco Crisp. They have Dejesus, Byrd and Soriano. Dejesus just signed and Soriano isn’t going anywhere. If they look to move Marlon Byrd I hope Wren gives Theo a ring.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:30 pm

Byrd is a big ol’ boy for a CFer. poor year in 2011, one year left at 6.5,

TnBrian

December 14th, 2011
11:32 pm

Byrd would be good for us.

Lots of ways Wren can go here. Speculation can drive a man crazy.

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:37 pm

Nolie

But were not talking about Byrd as full time CFer in Ted. He would just need to play LF and RF with CF on occasion. From ‘07 to ‘10 he had an OPS+ over 100 and a 96 last year in a down year. A career line of .291 .330 .430 .760 hitting @ the Ted. Of course its just my opinion but I think he’d be a great fit here. The guys is a model of consistency. Has a career AVG of .281 against RHP, LHP, Home and Away.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:45 pm

wasn’t saying yea or nae, just puttin’ out some facts. I wanted him last winter, I’d take him this year . buy I wouldn’t trade Prado or JJ for him with just one season left

P'cola Brave

December 14th, 2011
11:49 pm

No I don’t think Theo and his crew really would ask for that. They seem to be looking to build the farm back. It may take a prospect or two but that seems to be the FO goal in Chicago right now.

nolie

December 14th, 2011
11:56 pm

well I GG. TTFN. take care

kenhotlanta

December 15th, 2011
12:00 am

Marlon Byrd is a homeboy, he graduated from my high school, Sprayberry in Marietta, GA as did Jimmy Nash, AL Rookie of the Year eons ago.

DS1

December 15th, 2011
12:32 am

Did everybody go to bed?

What Frank, no hot deals tonight?

Venice Jim

December 15th, 2011
12:55 am

DS1 – I think he was about to make a big deal but realized there was no one here to see it…

DeProf - DDGxx

December 15th, 2011
1:15 am

Many ifs, but…..
If Prado and McCann’s seasons were seriously affected by injuries, then DO NOT TRADE Pradp.. He was MVP or close of the team year before. McCann also Mr. clutch when well. Team player and clutch. Might help to settle down in one spot, however. Pitchers JJ and Hanson can also make big difference when well. Like other blogger said, our pitchers seem to fall by the wayside once season starts. Hudson and wildcard Medlin critical as well as on Young Gun needs to come through. More uncertain is JH kid returning to a force. All of these wishes will not be granted. Prado and JH come back to life along with the CF – more than solic. Reality says that Pitching Starters and their related injuries number one concern.
Back to chasing pirates.
Anyway, there is some hope.

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:17 am

Hope??? that would be the substance of things wished for, yet unseen! Where there is Wren, there is no hope!

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:20 am

One, count it,one trade has worked out for Wren,and no F.A. signings, Wren is a clown among jugglers.

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:22 am

Lowe and Kawakakookoo, has Wren gunshy as he!!, he is scared.

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:23 am

on the trade front……see Ankiel, and McLousy, I would imagine the heads at LM, have ripped sir frankenstein a new arsehole for blind ignorance.

DeProf - DDGxx

December 15th, 2011
1:24 am

To:Kenhotlanta
coached J Nash son LL minor team -He could powder the ball, Same year E. Marietta won WS LL I believe.
From afar -but to return in time for Super Bowl /Spring Training

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:24 am

helllooooooooooo….echoes and crickets….yep that’s what this team is going to be about on a lot of georgia summer nights.

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:27 am

On the bright side, every day that passes, is one day closer to no more Wren.

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:28 am

Maybe he will go back to Florida, and take Fredi the clueless wonder with him.

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
1:29 am

And now sir I must power down for the evening,be safe!

kenhotlanta

December 15th, 2011
1:30 am

DeProf – DDGxx:

Cool story, Jimmy graduated the year before me and I remember there was never any talk around school that he was anything special as a baseball player, so it was quite a surprise when he made it to the big leagues and had some success. He was just the class clown…funny as hell.

cricket

December 15th, 2011
1:41 am

has DOB published braves’ financial statements yet?

kenhotlanta

December 15th, 2011
2:15 am

Yeah, he broke into Liberty Media’s HQ and stole the files from the safe. The salary numbers should be online in the morning.

kenhotlanta

December 15th, 2011
2:33 am

Jason Isbell has already written a song about it: The Ballad of DOB.

old man

December 15th, 2011
7:04 am

I see an idea of Jurrjens for OF Span with the Twins. Don’t see any upgrade over Prado here.

Ease

December 15th, 2011
7:07 am

kenhotlanta, I played against Byrd in both high school and college. My final collegiate pitch was a high and tight cutter to Bryd that he thought he hammer. Alas, it was not to be. The mighty Byrd struck out. My one claim to fame!

CB

December 15th, 2011
7:49 am

Hey, I’m impressed!

Ease

December 15th, 2011
8:04 am

I want to be snarky and say something like, “You should be, this Petrel had skills back in the day.” But I won’t. That sort of gloating is beneath me.

old man

December 15th, 2011
8:31 am

Back to Adam Jones.

The O’s have a couple of blue chip SS prospects who are just about ready. Hardy is 7M a year, and the idea of him sliding over to third base eventually seems convenient. They view him as a bridge to their version of Simmons, but he would be an A+ “bridge” for the O’s or for us. 07 and 08 were huge years for Hardy, he was down for two years, and then last year had a 4.8 WAR. He would be a big plus for us if he repeated 2011.

The real issue is Jones versus Prado in left. The people who have watched Jones play seem to have a higher opinion of him than those who are using metrics only. Prado vs. Jones is a tough call. Swisher is a clearer choice, obviously.

The O’s WOULD trade their starting SS and CF, if in return they were getting a #2 starter and a starting second baseman, which they could really use. Especially if they got a third player, a prospect, from us. So it would be two starters for two starters, not terribly lop-sided either way. The metrics seem to show Jones making steady, improvement each year offensively.

I’m undecided. Offensively, I would bet on Jones, but only by a bit. Actually, he’s the safe bet, because Prado has to come back from a health issue, and you are depending on a rebound. With Jones, you just want to see the trend continue.

The make or break issue is Jones’ defense, compared to Prado in left. I’ve seen a couple of comments by people who have seen him play who say he makes stellar plays. But is he making easy plays look hard? And aren’t we are talking about a 2011 CF playing an easier position, LF, in 2012? What do you guys think? Is Jones an upgrade defensively over Prado in LF? If he is, then I think the deal makes sense to pursue.

And who would play CF for the O’s if they traded Jones? Not that I care (until the World Series against Baltimore!), but it would affect whether a deal would work.

coach joe

December 15th, 2011
9:09 am

Watched a baseball movie yesterday ..Love of the Game with Kevin Costner.. Corny but a great bb movie… Made me MAD and SAD when the National League MVP gets caught on PEDS…. I love baseball and especially Braves Baseball..(I admit it took me a while to get over the collapse this year)..But this PED stuffs really breaks my heart.. My older sons (26,29) have no interest in baseball because of the last steroid scandal and now we have this new problem..these guys disrespect the game and me Joe fan and it keeps pushing me away….

Sad…. but GO BRAVES..

Hillbilly

December 15th, 2011
9:19 am

American Horror Story was absolutely insane last night. Best episode of the season.

K-man

December 15th, 2011
9:25 am

Old Man, Adam Jones would be a huge defensive upgrade in LF over Prado. Adam Jones might even be an upgrade over Bourn in CF. The metrics can not replace the “eye” test, and Adam Jones is a fine defensive OF.

The question to be answered is, “Can the Braves afford to trade Prado in any deal to upgrade LF without getting back someone to pick up the games Chipper Jones will miss at 3b?”

Baltimore would surely want to upgrade their pitching, and would definitely upgrade 3b with Prado, but would need to acquire a CF somehow if they dealt Adam Jones. I know, their problem, not ours, but it is a factor. I doubt they would want to bolster SP and 3b, just to have to turn around and need to acquire a starting SS and CF.

According to Yahoo Sports, the Orioles:
Biggest Needs: The Orioles could use a corner infielder and an everyday left fielder. 1B/3B Mark Reynolds has versatility, enabling the club to look at both positions. OF Nolan Reimold and 1B/3B Chris Davis provide depth at both positions and at designated hitter. The club could use one or two veteran starting pitchers.

In any event, it is fun to think about. I love the Hot Stove League.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
9:26 am

Ease – Now that’s cool.

Sopheee

December 15th, 2011
9:33 am

Wow, petrel – that is impressive. Byrd got beat by a bird.

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
9:40 am

Ken Rosenthal – http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/cincinnati-reds-need-to-trade-for-pitching-121411

A number of quality starting pitchers – Gio Gonzalez, Wade Davis and John Danks in the AL; Matt Garza, Jair Jurrjens and Wandy Rodriguez in the NL – remain available in trade.

LF Heisey/Alonso, CF Stubbs, RF Bruce
3B Rolen, SS Cozart, 2B Phillips, 1B Votto, C Mesoraco/Hanigan

SP Cueto, Leake, Arroyo, Bailey, Wood
RP Bray, Arrendondo, Ondrusek, Chapman, Masset, Volquez, LeCure

Reds have a good team. Rosenthal is right. They do need to make a trade for a starter and get a closer too. Add those starters available through trade to the free agents available(Oswalt, Jackson, Kuroda, Saunders, Darvish-posting) and it’s no wonder Frank Wren is taking his time.

old man

December 15th, 2011
9:41 am

I would love to hear others, K-man. Is Adam Jones an upgrade defensively in LF?

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
9:44 am

The mighty Byrd struck out. My one claim to fame! _ Ease

Nice Ease.

Someone should set up a Ease verses BAS showdown for blog bragging rights. Maybe raise a few bucks for charity, do it during the All Star Game.

bozz

December 15th, 2011
9:44 am

Actually, metrics can, and SHOULD, always replace the eye test. Judging someone with your eyes is about as asinine of an evaluation as possible.

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
9:45 am

Lew

December 15th, 2011
9:50 am

McFann – Probably Tweety. Only Alfred Hitchcock had angry Byrds back then

old man

December 15th, 2011
9:50 am

It’s both. If 2 guys are 10 points apart in OPS, go to visuals and attitude. On OF fielding metrics how do Prado and Jones compare?

Mitchie-sand

December 15th, 2011
9:51 am

Hey DOB, just saw a commercial for Culture Club doing a show in Dubai and they said “come see one of the greatest pop bands of all time”. Haha, what’s your opinion?

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
9:53 am

bozz – TOTAL BS! While metrics are important, they hardly tell the whole story. A combination of art and science, with the art part coming from scouting and observation. You whippersnappers think you can accomplish everything on the almighty computer.

old man

December 15th, 2011
9:53 am

I’m asking because I’ve never figured out how to read them.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
9:56 am

M-sand – I guess it comes down partly to your definition of pop (vs rock). Have they ever heard of a little band called The Beatles? or the Eagles, or the Bee Gees (especially pre-disco), or etc., etc., etc.? Culture Club? what a joke!

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
9:57 am

Lew

:lol: OK, it all makes sense, now… ;)

old man

December 15th, 2011
9:57 am

If the OF metrics say Jones is better than Prado, then ya gotta think about a trade, even if you ignore your eyeballs. Offensively, Jones is a safer bet, with more upside.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
10:00 am

old man@9:57 – Valid point…except…if you trade Prado, you have to be sure you have a true back-up for Chipper, especially, and infield in general.

RC

December 15th, 2011
10:01 am

old man,

It’s hard to compare Jones and Prado using most defensive metrics, because Jones’s numbers would be derived compared to other CF, while Prado’s numbers would be derived compared to other LF.

My thought is that even if someone is a below average CF, they are probably better defensively than a player who isn’t viewed as having the ability for CF.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:02 am

Makes much more sense that if you want Jones from the O’s, you trade them a package of Jurrjens and minor league talent – then you have Prado in LF and 3B and Jones to play LF, CF for rsting Bourn and RF for Heyward – especially if he struggles and if not, against some LH pitching.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:03 am

Should have mentioned Martin spelling Uggla and Freeman, too.

bozz

December 15th, 2011
10:04 am

Look at defensive efficiencies to start with, for example. This is the rate at which balls put into play are converted into outs. If there’s a vast difference between two players, player A being better than player B but player B making a couple splashy outs, you’d still take player A.

I’d rather have a player that saves my team runs and has a better zone rating and expected out numbers than someone that “looks good.”

old man

December 15th, 2011
10:06 am

RC

Most intelligent thing I’ve seen on the blog in weeks.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:08 am

Not to mention that zone ratings are notoriously not all that accurate.

K-man

December 15th, 2011
10:11 am

Bozz, you know absolutely nothing about baseball if really believe the BS you are spouting. Metrics can aid in making a point, but those that use only metrics know nothing of the sport. Can metrics tell who is the more beautiful woman? And, they can not tell who is a better defensive player either. The eye test is vital.

If metrics alone were used, no one would have drafted a WR from a small Mississippi college with a 4.69 40-yard time, who later turned out to be the most prolific WR in NFL history — Jerry Rice. The eye test is vital.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
10:12 am

bozz – experienced knowledgable scouting and observation if a hell of a l.ot more than “looks good”. Anyone who doesn’t understand that …could be the one considered “asinine”.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
10:14 am

should be “is” not “if”

Murph

December 15th, 2011
10:14 am

Another super exciting day of no Braves news… so… what should we talk about?

Any Howard Stern listeners out there? He just announced this morning that he’s going to be the new judge on America’s Got Talent. I’m not a big fan of talent shows (contrary to what nolie would tell you), but I’ll be watching this.

Bababooey!!!

Mountain Braves Fan

December 15th, 2011
10:16 am

The Braves starting lineup is too left handed. The whole point of upgrading left field with a right handed or switch hitting “thumper” is to make the lineup more balanced and less vulnerable to LHP. In that respect, replacing Prado with Adam Jones is kind of a lateral move. Last season Adam Jones had a .665 OPS vs. LHP and Prado had a .673 OPS vs. LHP. Does trading for Adam Jones really make the team that much better, and at what cost?

bozz

December 15th, 2011
10:16 am

K-man,

Yep, because comparing a baseball player’s defensive efficiency is JUST like ogling a woman.

Man, it’s a good thing that you’re so right and that this metric thing is going to take off, I’m so glad that baseball is full of people like you who are completely ignoring metrics. Boy, am I an idiot for using science to evaluate a player, all I need to do is watch if he runs fast or if he’s “on a hot streak” like Constanza was. If that’s the case, Constanza is headed for the Hall of Fame while someone like Heyward has just played his last game because he didn’t have a “hot bat” this year and clearly has no talent.

Have fun with your eye test, I’m out of here.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:17 am

MOuntain Braves Fan – Depends entirely on how they use the pieces. If Prado plays LF, 3B, 2B and 1B annd Jones plays all three utfield positions, it could work out quite well. You’d only need that illusive veteran back up SS if you traded for Jones.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:18 am

Illusive and elusive – at least at this point.

Hugo Z Hackenbush

December 15th, 2011
10:19 am

Metrics wouldn’t be of much use in a Culture Club vs. Beatles discussion, because the Beatles had a much larger defensive “zone.”

RC

December 15th, 2011
10:22 am

Lew,

I’m not sure that I would say the zone ratings are inaccurate, as much as they have limitations that many tend to ignore. For instance, anyone playing left field in Fenway park is at a strong disadvantage in zone rating if compared to someone playing right field in Petco park, simply because in Fenway there is less “zone” to cover. It also doesn’t take into account who the other defenders on the field are, which could make a huge difference in if a player extends his zone or not. I would imagine that anyone playing the corners with Andruw in CF would have pretty bad UZRs, because Andruw was going to call them off and take the ball on anything he could get to. The same player’s would likely have a much better zone rating if say, Nate McLouth was playing center, because he would not only get to fewer balls, but also has a tendency to defer to the other fielder if they both get into position at the same time. While UZR can tell us something, we need to recognize the context, and that there is a lot that it doesn’t tell us.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:25 am

RC – So in other words, Zone Rating, like RBI are highly dependent upon other players and hence are meaningless?

Mountain Braves Fan

December 15th, 2011
10:26 am

Lew-I’d still rather have Swisher or Quentin rather than Adam Jones.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:32 am

Mountain Braves – Dude, you’re preaching to the choir. I’ve been advocating picking up Swisher any way they could for three years now.

However, Adam Jones looks like what might be possible. Has much the same numbers as Cody Ross, who many have wanted to fill LF this year, only with more power potential, costs less and is under contractual control for two years.

And we could get him without losing Prado, who I feel is much more intewgral to the Braves’ success than many seem to realize.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
10:34 am

no one would have drafted a WR from a small Mississippi college with a 4.69 40-yard time, who later turned out to be the most prolific WR in NFL history — Jerry Rice. The eye test is vital. K-man

Rec yards avg TD
1984 Mississippi Valley State WR 103 1682 16.3 27 27

Pretty good senior season for Rice, I used to watch late night replays of their games. Fun to watch, I think they averaged around 600 yards of offense a game.

Slowhiteguy

December 15th, 2011
10:36 am

I am still trying to process the Harper-Heyward comparison.

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
10:40 am

Offensively, Jones is a safer bet, with more upside.

Are you saying it’s a safer bet that Jones will overcome his lack of plate discipline (an ability he has so far not shown) than it is that Prado will revert to his offensive norms? I don’t believe I can agree with that.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
10:40 am

Well, Harper did have a pretty good 36 game stretch wih the Pirates right before he retired.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
10:41 am

Well that is ugly.

Rec/ 103……. yards/1682 …….. avg/16.3……… TD/27

richbrave

December 15th, 2011
10:44 am

FALL BALL [updated]

AUSTRALIA

No games scheduled.

DOMINICA

No games scheduled.

PUERTO RICO

CAROLINA GIANTS

PH/LF BRAIHAIM MALDONADO [.156 BA] 0-0, 1 BB.

VENEZUELA

ANZOATEGUI INDIANS

RF STEFAN GARTRELL [.214 BA] 1-5, 1 R, 1 2B [5], 3 RBI [6], 1 SO.

CARACAS LIONS

No BRAVES played.

LARA CARDINALS

C JOSE YEPEZ [.212 BA] 1-2, 1 SO.

ZULIA EAGLES

No game scheduled.

Mitchie-sand

December 15th, 2011
10:45 am

Yeah, I don’t think I’m going to take that trip to Dubai. :)

Vesaversa

December 15th, 2011
10:49 am

I liked Conrad as a hitter but he suck at his position .So it didn’t surprise me that the brave released him.

STRETCH

December 15th, 2011
10:49 am

Braves Interested In Ronny Cedeno
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15 at 9:19am CST]
The Braves are among the teams interested in free agent shortstop Ronny Cedeno, according to David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (on Twitter). The Peter E. Greenberg & Associates client has been on Atlanta’s backup shortstop and utility list all offseason, O’Brien reports.

The Pirates declined Cedeno’s option earlier this offseason, after he posted a .249/.297/.339 line in 454 plate appearances. The 28-year-old posted a strong 6.8 UZR/150 at shortstop this past season, though his career mark of -1.6 UZR/150 is slightly below average. The Red Sox and Pirates were also linked to Cedeno earlier this offseason, but they’ve since added depth in Nick Punto and Clint Barmes, respectively.

Alex Gonzalez won’t return to Atlanta; he agreed to terms with the Brewers last week. GM Frank Wren figures to add a shortstop on a one-year deal to provide Tyler Pastornicky with time to develop into an everyday player. Yuniesky Betancourt, Cesar Izturis, Ryan Theriot and Jack Wilson are among the available free agent shortstops.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
10:49 am

bozz – NO ONE is saying to ignore the metrics, or that they don’t have value, or that they don’t have GREAT value. We ARE saying that metrics have a valid place as PART of the evaluation process, but that the numbers don’t tell NEARLY all the story…and that proper scouting has a significant value in the said evaluation of a player. Get your head out of your computer and into the real world, at least once in a while. The best decision makers depend upon the most modern science available, but also depend upon the art of evaluation. To not do so WOULD be asinine.

richbrave

December 15th, 2011
10:49 am

LEW:

I like ADAM JONES and…………who from the O’s for JJ? If a top prospect is included this could happen Maybe MACHADO and JONES with a mid-level OF’er prospect for JJ and the PASTOR?

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
10:51 am

old man
December 15th, 2011
9:57 am

If the OF metrics say Jones is better than Prado, then ya gotta think about a trade, even if you ignore your eyeballs. Offensively, Jones is a safer bet, with more upside.

I totally disagree with Jones being a safer bet offensively than Prado and the Braves should not trade for Jones.

Prado put up an OPS of .800+ in 2008, 2009 , 2010 and in 2011 was right on track to post another .800+ OPS before he was injured in early June. A. Jones posted a .792 OPS in 2009 which may be his career year. Who knows…with Jones being younger he could improve, but after 4 four full time seasons in the majors, I believe what you see is what you get with Jones. Low OBP, high strike outs, not good at stealing bases for someone with his speed, avg D in CF, really good D in LF.

Prado did not injury his wrist/knee/ankle/shoulder/neck, the injury was an infection. There is no joint/bone that must heal… he only needs to regain strength in his legs. Prado has proven over the past 3-4 years he is a .300/.350/.450 player, Jones has never produced these numbers at the ML level in his career.

The safer bet on offense is that the guy who has done it before and is in the peak years of his career will do it again, not that someone who hasn’t accomplished it will finally breakthrough.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
10:52 am

Adam Jones – August 21, 2011:

.299 .337 .494 .830

Again, that’s August 21, not April 21.

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
10:53 am

The eye test is vital.

Validity of the observation depends on the head that holds the eyeballs. :-)

In any event, one shouldn’t dismiss metrics that seem to conflict with visual observation. Depends on the methodology behind the metric, confidence level in the actual data, one’s ability to interpret the data correctly, etc., etc.

For a lot of years, I managed to see tons of minor league baseball each season. But, even at that, I was always reluctant to form a solid opinion of a prospect until I had seen him at more than one level and over more than one season. Because you can eyeball somebody on the best day of his career or the day he got dumped by girlfriend, and neither one are likely to produce an accurate observation.

And, truly, any small set of observations are just as likely to produce the wrong evaluation as the right one. Metrics have a way of evening that out, as long as you know what you’re looking at and how to read it.

However, most of the guys like our earlier metrics-only poster tend to disdain any set of observations, regardless of sample size, as inferior to simple data. That makes them numbingly obtuse, but you can’t blame the data for that. :-)

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
10:54 am

bozz – You’re really Shaun, right?

richbrave

December 15th, 2011
10:55 am

Nicely said scoots

Venice Jim

December 15th, 2011
10:58 am

I hate to ruin everyone’s day, but Chuck James has signed with the Mets…

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
10:58 am

scoots – You said it better than me. It kinda boils down to the fact that some people think they know it all, and those people tend to be young and lack experience. I may sound like an old fogy (because I am one), but young people tend to WAY undervalue experience and maturity.

Mitchie-sand

December 15th, 2011
10:59 am

I hear Chuck James was solid til the sixth…

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
11:01 am

VJ – I’m not excited about an Atlanta boy playing for the NY Mess, but he isn’t exactly Cy Young. I think I can live with it.

richbrave

December 15th, 2011
11:05 am

I would add that no set of visualization or stats can determine probability if either or both contain a small sample size.

One complements the other…….visualization over time while building stats is the most solid way to determine probability.

That’s why when asked what I think of an individual BRAVES prospect, I always add a caveat if I haven’t been able to include both into my personal evaluation.

This necessity is what makes DOB’s work so invaluable. He sees a lot of baseball, and not exclusively BRAVES baseball, is constantly digging into and upgrading data on individual BRAVES while all the while having eyes and ears inside the clubhouse.

Even though WREN has become quite circumspect regarding information, DAVID’s must be the best data available here on the BRAVES in the vast majority of BRAVES machinations.

jason

December 15th, 2011
11:05 am

hate to see anyone get cut, but how can anyone cry over conrad the cannot play defense period he single handedly knocked us out of playoffs 2 years ago

Murph

December 15th, 2011
11:06 am

.299 .337 .494 .830

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:06 am

I think the really good news is that Chuck didn’t sign with the Braves.

richbrave – Not so sure I see them considering a trade of Pastornicky.

RC

December 15th, 2011
11:07 am

I hear Chuck James was solid til the sixth…

Batter or pitch?

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:07 am

The Braves starting lineup is too left handed. The whole point of upgrading left field with a right handed or switch hitting “thumper” is to make the lineup more balanced and less vulnerable to LHP. In that respect, replacing Prado with Adam Jones is kind of a lateral move. Last season Adam Jones had a .665 OPS vs. LHP and Prado had a .673 OPS vs. LHP. Does trading for Adam Jones really make the team that much better, and at what cost?

THAT is why I particularly pointed out why I would trade JJ for prospects from Cincy and go after either Cuddyer or Beltran….

In 2011, Cuddyer OPSed .993, yes .993 against LHP and Beltran OPSed .923

Either would be a major step up in the middle of the lineup for what usually goes on v LHP.

Don

December 15th, 2011
11:08 am

It is AMAZING – that everyone is assuming that the Braves’ Pitching is going to be great.
WAKE UP – FOUR of our FIVE Starters are coming off INJURIES.
Many times pitchers NEVER come back and really be great after serious injuries.
And this is just a SMALL SAMPLE of the problem. Of all the Starting Pitchers that the Braves have had in the 6 or 7 years since Leo left as Pitching Coach (counting the ones who have been in the roatation a reasonable length of time) almost ALL of them have ended up being INJURED.
There is no way to have enough pitching talent to continue to overcome this. The Braves are going to have SIGNIFICANT PITCHING PROBLEMS – if not now, SOON.

RC

December 15th, 2011
11:08 am

hate to see anyone get cut, but how can anyone cry over conrad the cannot play defense period he single handedly knocked us out of playoffs 2 years ago

Also got the team INTO the playoffs, so I’ll call it an overall wash.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:10 am

Lew…

I think for what the Braves need Cody Ross would be a much better fit than A Jones. (except for $). Ross kills LH pitching, Jones actually hits RH pitching better for his career than lefties. Braves would have to trade Prado or JJ or Prospects for Jones, only need cash for C. Ross.

Braves need a 4th OFer to cover LF when Prado plays third, rest Heyward against tough lefties, cover CF to Bourn a day off and PH/late inning defense. Cody Ross fits all those better than Jones without having to give up JJ or top prospects.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
11:10 am

jason – NO ONE single-handedly can determine the outcome of a ballgame.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:10 am

Yes, Hudson’s back, Jurrjens’ knee, Medlen’s elbow and Hanson’s shoulder issues must certainly be attributable to McDowell.

richbrave

December 15th, 2011
11:11 am

DON:

Amazin’……….Mets fan?

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:12 am

BTW, to tell you why numbers don’t always mean everything….

Carlos Lee ranked 2nd in all of baseball in defensive WAR this year :shock:

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
11:13 am

It kinda boils down to the fact that some people think they know it all,

Ahhh, I can’t get all over a guy for that. Hits too close to home. :-)

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:14 am

Colorado Braves – Check their numbers. JOnes and Ross are esentially the same offensive players except that Jones has more power. He’ll also cost leass over the two years than Ross would and they both play all three outfield positions.

I just don’t see losing Jurrjens as that big a deal and Jpnes can do al that Ross can with Martin still here.

Honestly, though, either would work about as well, but Jurrjens in a trade would offset Jones’ salary.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:15 am

BTW, just for purposes of mentioning though,

Carlos Lee OPSed 1.028 against LHP :shock: <—thats just crazy good

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:17 am

CBF-

Cody Ross OPSed .698 v LHP in 2011….

Thats MUCH worse than Prado in a very down year for Prado….

Why would this make ANYONE happy?!

richbrave

December 15th, 2011
11:17 am

ncscoots
December 15th, 2011
11:13 am

It kinda boils down to the fact that some people think they know it all,

Ahhh, I can’t get all over a guy for that. Hits too close to home.

Chuckle!

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:18 am

I get that his career OPS v LHP is slightly over .900 but watching him in 2011 it almost looked like he was a shell of that playoff player in 2010 and is falling off the back end of his career at age 30.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:19 am

Murph
December 15th, 2011
10:52 am

Adam Jones – August 21, 2011:
.299 .337 .494 .830
Again, that’s August 21, not April 21.

Was this just a 2.5 month hot streak or did Jones figure it out. I would bet it was just a hot streak because Jones did not sustain it…. Aug 262/283/427 710OPS and Sept 222/279/397 676OPS.

Prado sustained his through 3 years not 3 months

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:19 am

Scoots-

you a know it all?

Nah :lol:

Murph

December 15th, 2011
11:22 am

As a Braves fan I’d kill for a player who went on a 2.5 month hot streak. Literally, I’d kill Ward if it meant we could acquire a player like that.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:23 am

jason

December 15th, 2011
11:23 am

i knew i may get hit a bit on conrad comments undertsand all said just very sour still on the guy and it is hard to spend a roster spot on a guy who bats 3 times a week and cannot play defense

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
11:24 am

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:24 am

Lew… i did check the nubers and Ross for his carre has been been over .900 OPS v LHed pitching, and JJ is a big deal. All-star starting pitching should be able to bring in better than A. Jones in a trade. Keep JJ until next off-season if Jones is the best we can do now.

I agree we need to keep Prado… and sign C Ross if possible. He is a better fit and only cost cash not JJ or prospects.

CB

December 15th, 2011
11:25 am

Nobody can kill Ward except the person who created him.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:25 am

Murph… nice :)

jason

December 15th, 2011
11:27 am

keep JJ and Prado and sign Ross way better than trading for Jones we need depth this would allow for a reasonable cost

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:27 am

Colorado Braves – Didn’t mean to sound like that when I mentioned the numbers . Yes, Ross is better against LHP, but can we afford a Free Agent contract without trading a salary to replace it?

Actually, I’d like to see a one year option out there and go for someone much better next winter when salary is freed.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:28 am

P-Town… that .698 OPS against LHed pitching for Ross still was better than A. Jones .665 OPS vs lefties in 2011.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:29 am

Unless they can make a deal for Swisher and then sign him to an extension.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:31 am

Lew.. the only one year option guy I know is Matty Diaz, and he doesn’t play CF.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
11:32 am

I still like the idea of getting Jones, but honestly I’m starting to fall into a bit of malaise about the team this offseason. I keep telling myself that Wren has something big up his sleeve, but the more and more I think about it the more I start to believe the biggest offseason move will be dumping Lowe and the biggest acquisition will be Ronny Cedeno.

Not horrible considering how talented the team is, but man oh man… sigh… I just miss Ted. That’s what this is all really about… I miss Ted. A lot. Sniff sniff. Lew, gimme a hug!

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
11:32 am

My housekeeper is here this morning and a little while ago she changed the TV from CNBC to some kind of talk show. I heard some woman screaming about having a relationship with one guy then, when he left her, she started having sex with his little brother. So she had a baby, she says the 16 year old kid is the father.

I had to go look, both the guys look stupid to me…… DNA test and the winner is….. the little brother.

Or is he the loser?

Maybe the baby is the loser

Wow

Now another fight about paternity….. Who are these people!? Yikes

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:33 am

ColBraves – I’m certain that there is somewhere out there besids Matt Diaz, though I wish Matty would find his Mojo against LHP.

Or maybe Wren is telling us the truth that they can boost payroll a bit to fill the need. Guess we’ll see.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:33 am

Meant someone out there.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
11:33 am

scoots – You’re no “know it all”, more like a “knows more than most”.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:33 am

I am still hoping/dreaming that the Royals lose their minds and agree to trade the Braves that Myers guy. He looks as though he will be really good.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:35 am

Murph -Thanks, but I’ll pass on the hug.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:36 am

old man If the OF metrics say Jones is better than Prado, then ya gotta think about a trade, even if you ignore your eyeballs.

they dont. OF metrics have jones as a bad CFer and prado as at least a average LFer. Maybe a little better than average. dont know how that would traslate to adam jones in LF, but since prado is a better hitter than jones, it doesnt really make sense to swap them out in LF.

David O'Brien

December 15th, 2011
11:36 am

Heyman’s reporting that Prince could well become a Ranger. If that’s the case … whew. That Rangers lineup with Fielder added would be frightening. A freakin’ blitzkrieg.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:37 am

lew Has much the same numbers as Cody Ross, who many have wanted to fill LF this year, only with more power potential, costs less and is under contractual control for two years.

so he has the same numbers as cody ross, and we are going to trade a 25 year old all star pitcher for him? how do ytou know adam jones will cost less than cody ross? jones is projected to mkae $6.6mil in arbitration.

also, i cant speak for everybody else, but i floated cody ross as a 4th outfielder. should we trade jurrjens for a 4th outfielder? eff no.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
11:38 am

DOB – Rangers are already frightening…now if they can just find an ace…

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
11:38 am

Oh god, another one……….. This woman cheated on her guy with 8 other guys, but she is sure the ugly boyfriend is the daddy of the daughter. More DNA and lie detector test coming ……… wee ……

Who watches this craziness

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:38 am

CBF-

Well, Ive never been a huge fan of Jones myself and have explicitly mentioned that IF we’re trading JJ and Prado to Baltimore it better damn well be for Nick Markakis…

Therefore, like I said, Id rather trade JJ to Cincy for specs, keep Prado, and use the money to go after Cuddyer or Beltran w/ backloaded deals.

Either of those two players are game changers…Cody Ross is not.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
11:39 am

The more I hear, the more I think we should get a backup SS, and see what happens in ST.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
11:39 am

Raleigh-

Nah….the Rangers will just go out and put up a football score every game….

Who needs pitching when you can score 8 in the first inning :lol:

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
11:41 am

P-town – Those guys are game changers…IF they are able to play, and not on the DL.

old man

December 15th, 2011
11:41 am

I asked who do people think would be a better defensive LFer in 2012, Adam Jones or Martin Prado.

I got one straight answer. Come on guys, just one word–Jones or Prado?

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:43 am

.299 .337 .494 .830

murph, the season goes through september. he took a 50 OPS point dive in one month. do you know how bad you have to be to take a 50 point OPS dive in a month? please post his numbers from august 22nd on. the player you say seems to be headed in the right direction.

RC

December 15th, 2011
11:43 am

K-man

December 15th, 2011
11:44 am

Cody Ross would be a pretty good option for the Braves. He’d be low risk on dollars, plays all 3 OF positions, hits LH pitching, is at the point of his career when he can not expect an everyday job on a contender, is familiar with Fredi’s managing, and would be great in the clubhouse. Seems like a perfect fit in many ways.

But, from the few reports we can find about what the Braves are trying to do (not a knock on DOB, but Wren puts a lid on leaks), it looks like the Braves are trying to get a more substantial option, who can also play CF if Bourn goes Free-Agent, and are talking with Baltimore. That fits really well with the picture of the Braves pursuing a deal for Adam Jones.

I like Ross better if we are to keep Prado, which I really want. But, if we are looking more to the future, and are going to deal Prado anyway, then a deal for Adam Jones looks good.

Fairbrave

December 15th, 2011
11:44 am

Defensive- Prado Offensive- Jones

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:44 am

P-Town … I too want Braves to sign Beltran more than Ross. Just do not in any way shape or form see Adam Jones as an upgrade over Prado or Bourn.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
11:44 am

Lew, are you scared of showing affection? I’m comfortable enough with my manliness to give another man a hug, and not a man hug where you shake hands and then hug on top of the handshake with your hands creating some sort of man-boob barrier. A real, honest to goodness hug.

Gimme a hug.

dp

December 15th, 2011
11:45 am

Dob in your opinión do u think frank wren has a big trade cooking with him being so quiet

Murph

December 15th, 2011
11:47 am

DAP, I would not give you a hug.

Yes, Jones was in a slump in September. It happens. In fact, it happens to most players at some point during the season.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:49 am

old man I got one straight answer. Come on guys, just one word–Jones or Prado?

no straight answer available, since jones doesnt play LF. no way to know.

K-man

December 15th, 2011
11:49 am

Jones would be a much better defensive LF’er than Prado.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:51 am

murph Jones was in a slump in September. It happens. In fact, it happens to most players at some point during the season.

post the numbers. lets see them.

K-man

December 15th, 2011
11:51 am

Jones would be a much better defensive LF’er than Prado, mostly because Jones is an OF’er and Prado is an infielder playing OF.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:53 am

k-man Jones would be a much better defensive LF’er than Prado.

how do you know that, exactly?

DAP

December 15th, 2011
11:55 am

k-man Jones would be a much better defensive LF’er than Prado, mostly because Jones is an OF’er and Prado is an infielder playing OF.

so you are going by titles and ignoring ability and factual information.

old man

December 15th, 2011
11:57 am

So far, only FairBrave thinks Jones is not better defensively. I see a trend.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
11:58 am

Yes, Jones was in a slump in September. It happens.

Just a quick glance but it looks like Jones sucked for 24 games in March/April and for 47 games in Aug/Sept/Oct and was pretty good for 80 games in between.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
11:58 am

I always thought that a good CFer would be better defensively than almost all LFers… then I saw McLouth in LF. He just never seemed comfortable and really didn’t do very well in LF . That’s just my limited memory though.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
11:59 am

Murph – No – I”m afraid of being stabbed repeatedly by your three year old homicidal toddler.

DAP – Dude, Cody Ross wasn’t my suggestion – it’s been more than floated here all week long. I still want Wren to figure a way to trade for Nick Swisher. As for Jurrjens? I will not miss him and we have plenty of arms to replace him. The Kids are going to have to ear their keep sometime and they had some experience during a stretch drive last year, so let them pitch. Don’t know how much you seriously believe we’ll get in return for him anyway. He’ worth more than some believe and nowhere near what others think he’s worth.

ATL Insider

December 15th, 2011
12:03 pm

If the Rangers land Prince, that would allow them to trade Cruz or Hamilton for a SP.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:03 pm

All any of this is proving is that no matter who comes in to fill the position, someone is going to be pissed off. Imagine that.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:04 pm

To all fellow bloggers, called away on short notice, just wanted to say to DOB, and all of you, If I am hindered from posting until after Christmas, I want to wish each and everyone a safe, Merry, and Joyous Christmas! may your Stockings be filled with Joy, and your presents be filled with happiness! Oh! Yeah and GO BRAVES!

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
12:04 pm

Jones OBP was around .278 for almost half the games he played last year.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
12:05 pm

lew Dude, Cody Ross wasn’t my suggestion

i know that. you were saying adam jones had similar number to cody ross, and said people here had been wanting cody ross for LF. im just giving you the differences…its not the same situation even if the numbers are similar. ross WONT cost as much as jones, ross WONT cost us a player in a trade, ross WONT be a starting outfielder, ect.

if you were suggesting a trade of jurrjens for ross, it would worry me as much as your suggestion of jurrjens for jones. both would be terrible, terrible trades.

David O'Brien

December 15th, 2011
12:07 pm

Three years, $21 mill for Willingham with Twins. That actually seems pretty reasonable.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:08 pm

DAP-

Can we agree that neither of those guys put the Braves over the top?

If we got either no one tomorrow would be all gung ho, fan or writer, or what not, that the Braves are headed to the World Series….

Beltran and Cuddyer I would put into the (ever shrinking) category that would change the way the Braves are viewed…especially with all the LH pitching in the division, now with Buehrle added as well.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
12:08 pm

Merry Christmas to you and your family, JoeBrave

N8

December 15th, 2011
12:09 pm

There are so many factors when comparing Prado to Jones.

For one, over the past two years, Jones has been more durable. Jones can play CF, Prado cannot.

Clearly, a forward thinking GM should look at stats and performance from years past. But might be safer looking at recent trends. Here is what each of them has done the past two seasons:

Prado: 269 games, .284/.319/.423/.742 – 66 doubles, 5 triples, 28 HR (99 total XBH), 123 RBI, 9 SB, 11 CS, 138 K’s.

Jones: 300 games, .282/.321/.453/.774 – 51 doubles, 7 triples, 44 HR (102 total XBH), 152 RBI, 19 SB, 11 CS, 232 K’s

From my angle, like my first point said. About the only difference is one guy can play CF, on guy cannot. Since Wren might be looking for a backup plan in CF next year, that alone would justify having Jones over Prado.

On the flip side, you “fix” one hole, by creating another. Without Prado, there isn’t much backup plan at 3B for 2012 or beyond. But to me Prado isn’t the answer at 3B long-term anyhow, so you cross that bridge when you get to it.

The only other difference is that Jones seems to make more of his outs via the strikeout. About hundred less AB where the ball was put in play. Might be a good thing. Might not. Adam Jones has actually grounded into 3 more double plays than Prado over the past two seasons. So….

Walk rate, Prado is better (74 BB compared to 52 for Jones). However, Prado was hit by a pitch only 4 times over the previous two seasons. Jones has been hit 22 times. So when you had them together it’s 78 to 74. Pretty much a wash.

Jones is probably going to play better outfield defense, probably runs a bit better, and likely will hit more “3-run HR” along the way. And of course can play CF.

Other than that, I think it’s a sideways move. Not an upgrade or a downgrade.

Now, one could argue that Prado wasn’t the “real” Prado the past two years. Sure. Maybe not. But at some point, the “real” Prado is a guy that likely will miss 25-35 games due to some injury.

Until he plays 155+ games two years in a row, I’ll consider him a guy that can’t do it. Jones has been a tad more durable. So if you stay with Prado the “backups” in the OF come into play for 20 or so games.

While on the surface and if healthy, I’d contend that Prado is probably the better player. But I’d take Adam Jones for 150 games, over Prado for 130 and whoever else is going to get thrown out there when Prado is either hurt or filling in for Chipper.

It’s two-fold. If Prado is replacing Chipper, that’s a down grade and whoever is replacing Prado is likely a downgrade. Two spots downgraded. If Adam Jones is in LF (or in CF with Bourn in LF), and Chipper goes down?

Only one position is downgraded. And depending on who Wren would find to backup Chipper? It might be a better replacement than Prado has been at 3B the past two years. His numbers have been downright awful when filling in for Chipper at 3B.

Anyhow, that’s my 20 paragraph version of my two cents of Prado vs. Jones.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:09 pm

Let’s see now. We could sign Beltran for lots of bucks and way too many years, possibly seeing him spend much of that contract injured. We could sign Cody Ross as a Free Agent – who some feel is a fourth outfielder (thought that was what we were looking for) and again for more money than we likely have. Or we could trade Jurrjens for a lower return that many would like. Or we could trade Martin, who will likely have a comeback season and who fills two positions, for someone most don’t like or want. Or we could sign Cuddyer, who most view as an expensive version of Prado.

I’m beginning to go along with raleighbraves here – just let Diaz and Hinske play out there when Prado is at third and trust that having the deepest rotation in baseball and the best bullpen as well will carry us where we want to go.

ColoradoBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
12:09 pm

I don’t think Adam Jones is a good target for the Braves. I hope Braves sign either Bourn or maybe steal Victorino away from the Phils.

That should get McFann’s attention….

kenhotlanta

December 15th, 2011
12:10 pm

JoeBrave: Merry Christmas to you and your family.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:12 pm

And DOB…one helluva cover guy for the Braves! Thanks for such a forum for rabid fans.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:13 pm

Asking for all to shoot up a prayer for one of my Appraisers, Cancer is such a bad thing especially at Christmas.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:15 pm

Nathan – That’s why you use Jurrjens and not Prado to trade for Jones. Jurrjens can be replaced and if the recent past is indicative of the future, he will have to be replaced again anyway.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:15 pm

Maybe when I get back, Wren will have a LF that everyone can be happy over, after all it’s just a game! :)

George

December 15th, 2011
12:15 pm

BRAVES MUST NOT TRADE MARTIN because if they do and CHIPPER cannot play a lot, BRAVES will have a problem not only at SS but also 3RD BASE with no MARTIN.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:17 pm

Ugh…the thought of Hinske and Diaz #OccupyingLF makes me violently ill….

They shouldn’t be doing anything other than grabbing an occasional AB off the bench…

Having Beltran for 100 games would be more valuable than either of those guys would be for 162!

And Cuddyer hit 20 HR in 2011 and had an OPS close to 1.000 last year and OPS is a MAJOR plus for his career against LHP…

Im as big a Prado supporter as anyone here….Prado will never hit 20 HR or OPS that high.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:18 pm

And George shows up…:)George, Prado isn’t gong anywhere, now little Georgie Constanza might, but Prado…nah.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:18 pm

Maybe I should mention that in my Cuddyer or Beltran scenario we keep Prado as he can then spell Heyward, Uggla, and Chipper when needed….(Cuddyer would play RF w/ JH out)

DAP

December 15th, 2011
12:22 pm

i also like luke scott as a target, as long as he is healed up. he can play the corners or first base, and doesnt totally suck vs. lefthanded pitching. he had a bad year due to injury but he is the best, most talented player on the non tender list this year.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
12:22 pm

N8

December 15th, 2011
12:22 pm

Totally agree Lew. I’ve been long on board for having Prado go back to the super-sub on the team. Then if Chipper retires after the season and they don’t think he’s good enough to be the everyday 3B, they can trade him next off-season.

I was simply comparing Jones and Prado against eachother as an everyday LF.

Hell, with Chipper retiring after this year (if he does), there would probably be enough money off the books to STILL afford to keep Prado around in 2013 as the super-sub.

But at some point that’s too much money for a backup. Then again, NFL teams that skimp on a backup QB, usually miss the playoffs.

Prado as the super-sub might be the most important guy on the team.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
12:24 pm

luke scott has big power and can get plenty of ABs when prado or freeman need a break or when prado is filling in for chipper.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
12:26 pm

murph post the numbers. lets see them.

http://www.baseball-reference.com

why didnt you do that for the numbers thru august 21st? looks like youre afraid to post ugly numbers from your boy.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:27 pm

PTown – If only Beltran had not missed those pesky 200 games the last three years and was guaranteed to not do it again over a three year deal.

Beats the hell out of me how so many continually complain about Chipper, Prado, Jurrjens and others missing so many games, yet see nothing by Beltran except his OBP and conveniently forget he’s not durable and can’t play center field anymore.

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
12:29 pm

The Twins just signed Josh Willingham. This was the move the Braves were supposed to make. Prado could start at Short while Pastornicky is getting ready. And on days where Chipper sits Prado shifts to third and Pastornicky spells at short. Frank Wren is so obsessed with trades he’s too preoccupied to see bargain signings sitting right in front of him. BAH!!!!!!

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:32 pm

Oh Lord – Yet another “Prado can play short” poster. Yep, sure he can – he played it one game once before, sometime or other.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:32 pm

Lew-

Beltran like Cuddyer would be playing LF, not CF…

No way does Beltran ever go back to CF on one of my teams….thats part of what kept him healthier and able to produce this past season….

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:33 pm

The Twins just signed Josh Willingham. This was the move the Braves were supposed to make. Prado could start at Short while Pastornicky is getting ready

Most asinine statement I have read in a month! One more time before I head on out of town, MARTIN PRADO CANNOT PLAY SHORT STOP!!!

Murph

December 15th, 2011
12:34 pm

why didnt you do that for the numbers thru august 21st? looks like youre afraid to post ugly numbers from your boy.

Huh? I did post the numbers through August. One of us has a reading comprehension problem (not me) and is trying really hard to make the other angry (again, not me) about an issue that really affects neither in any way, shape, or form and one that, funny enough, one of us (me) really doesn’t care all that much about despite what the other (you) thinks.

I’m not going to go through all of baseball-reference dot com and find numbers for every player who hit a slump during the season. You can do that. Or you can not. No skin off my sack either way.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:34 pm

Ahh I give up! yup Prado can play all nine at once to hell with anyone else!

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:34 pm

PTown – They are looking for someone who can play center, too and they have said they will not make deals for chronically injured players – which is exactly what Beltran is. Yes, he can hit – WHEN He’s actually playing – which hasn’t been al that much since 08.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:37 pm

After about a week Prado will be on DL, and then who is gonna play, starting line-up
1b Prado
2b Prado
ss Prado
3b Prado
c Prado
Lf Prado
CF Prado
RF Prado
p Prado.

sounds like a winner to me!!! SHEESH!

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:37 pm

Prado could no more start as SS than Lew or Chipper could guys….

But JB…this really doesnt need to be said….if ppl don’t understand that, they are far dumber than anticipated, and its a wonder they could figure out how to click the links to get here or turn on the computer, or even pay their internet bill.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:38 pm

Reality is some folks need to stop watching commercials, fact is Prado cannot do everything!

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:39 pm

Lew-

Why even bother then?

There isn’t a single guy out there that is available that can make this team substantially better in 2012 AND give the team a legit chance to win the division which I am surprised hasn’t been mentioned BUT is desperately needed now w/ the new added Wild Card rule.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:39 pm

P-Town, inundation to the max with Prado at SS is putting it mildly! Good Lawd, do some people ever read what Wren and company say?

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:39 pm

PTown – Well……………I’m 60 and my center of balance changed 100 pounds ago. Martin would definitely be better at short than I would – likely so would Chipper. And both could hit much better than I can.

Bet neither of them can paint as well as I do, though.

David O'Brien

December 15th, 2011
12:40 pm

OK, some of those last several comments were quite funny.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:40 pm

Lew-

You get my point though

Murph

December 15th, 2011
12:41 pm

Lew, I’m sure the 3 year old would be nice to you. Don’t worry, I’d be sure to give you the safe word before your encounter, just in case.

The 3 year old is actually turning 4 in a couple of weeks. Kung Fu Panda party. Her entire karate class is coming… a room full of 20+ lethal weapons. I think I’ll wear a cup.

brian

December 15th, 2011
12:41 pm

shocking reads on the old blog this morning. Let me see if I can summarize:

Trade Jurrjens. Don’t trade Jurrjens. Trade Prado. Keep Prado as he is the RH bat we need. The obligatory – play Prado at SS. Pastornicky is ready. Pastornicky is no where near ready. Jones versus Cody Ross versus Prado…….

Seems like the movie Groundhog day to me

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:42 pm

Lew-

Basically put in my 12:39, Prado and JJ still being on this team is better than Cody Ross or Adam Jones and subtracting one of those guys.

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:44 pm

Murph-

Ugh…that sounds like a blast…

My niece had her 5th birthday party at Monkey Joe’s…

If you havent heard of that place….go to their website…

Small crazed children is not my idea of a great time…

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:44 pm

I think I need more coffee or an energy drink….

This day is wearing on me already….and I’m ready for the weekend.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:45 pm

waiting for the next edition of “In My Own Words”the Martin Prado saga, from all-star 2b, to lf to Shortstop prodigy!! kinda like re-runs of hee haw, you like em but ….

Murph

December 15th, 2011
12:46 pm

PT, if we still lived in Chicago I’d send you an invite. It’s an experience.

Party is at one of the local jumpy places… a warehouse full of inflatable slides and mazes and stuff. Chances of someone ending up bloody is 100%… just hope it’s not one of my kids.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:46 pm

new idea, keep JJ, keep Hanson, keepPrado, let’s deal Hudson!! saves 9 mil.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:48 pm

Hudson for Swisher… that should make everyone happy

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
12:49 pm

Murph-

Yep, sounds just like Monkey Joe’s….

I remember walking in and heading to the party room and about getting chop blocked by about 8 5-6 year olds running past me trying to get to the bouncy slide.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
12:50 pm

murph I did post the numbers through August.

thats my point. you post the good numbers, and when the bad number got brought up, you wouldnt post them. you just posted a link to the website. yes, it IS you that has the reading comprehension problem.

i asked specifically for you to post numbers from Adam Jones from august 22 thru the end of the year. you responded with a link. “why didnt you do that with the number up til august 21st?” i asked. not that hard to follow.

since you wont do it, adam jones hit .180/.227/.315 from august 22nd till the end of the year. this is the player you are telling us is “heading in the right direction”.

if you dont care about it, stop touting adam jones, and ill top slamming him.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:51 pm

PTown – And I would be fine with keeping them both and going cheap in LF when Martin is at third.

I just don’t see this as a desperate situation -especially with the added WC tream – which last year, had it been around, would have been the Braves.

WE missed the playoffs by a singe game after an epic collapse – likely never to be repeated. We have essentially the same team with every expectation of Prado and Heyward improvingm their performances and Lowe gone. We have the deepest rotation in most of baseball and the best pen.

Major changes are only indicated because so many are so upset over the collapse.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:52 pm

I’m out, peace to all, and once again Merry Christmas!

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:53 pm

Murph – Maybe full body armor would work better at the birthday party?

Lew

December 15th, 2011
12:54 pm

Merry Christmas JoeBrave – may it bring you happiness.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
12:56 pm

Random question for those with young kids-

Any of you have an Elf on the Shelf? Friend posted this, and although I don’t have kids, it made me laugh…

http://peopleiwanttopunchinthethroat.blogspot.com/2011/12/over-achieving-elf-on-shelf-mommies.html

C3PO

December 15th, 2011
12:56 pm

Beltran? nope! Willinghampton? nope! Seth Smith? nope! D.Young? nope! whole lotsa nopes.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:57 pm

Merry Christmas,Lew, I am always happy!

DAP

December 15th, 2011
12:57 pm

lew, i think your 12:51 is a balanced and level headed approach. with no changes, we still have a better chance than most as getting a playoff spot.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
12:59 pm

i asked specifically for you to post numbers from Adam Jones from august

No you didn’t. You said “post the numbers. lets see em” as a follow up to my post in which I said “every player hits a slump at some point in the season”. Those quotes aren’t 100% accurate as I don’t care enough to hit the “9″ and go back and copy/paste, but they’re close enough.

So, I post about other players going into slumps, you post requesting stats, I decline as I’m not your monkey and would rather you look up stats on your own, and you follow that up stating that I’m ducking your question.

Whether you indeed have a reading comprehension problem or simply missed it due to human error, I hope that this explanation suffices as to why I did not post any stats in response to your demands.

That and I really, truly don’t care whether the Braves get Jones or not. He’s a player who came up yesterday who I responded well towards. Prior to yesterday I had not ever mentioned Adam Jones in a single blog post. Not once in my 2+ years or however long I’ve been on the blog. That’s probably why your attempts to rile me up about “my boy” are not having the desired effect.

I don’t care.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
12:59 pm

Andre Ethier, would make more sense than any, however there is that left hand hitting, and 9 mill salary, so i figured I would squash that one before I left.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:00 pm

DAP – Thanks Dude, but for the sake of argument……right?

P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™

December 15th, 2011
1:01 pm

DAP-

But do you wanting to be playing in the new Wild Card 1 game and done format?

Because with the team as currently constructed AND if we added only a Cedeno and Ross or Adam Jones, this team has little chance to take the division from Phily.

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:01 pm

Alright, seems I need to educate some “fans” here. A majority of baseball players that make it to the MLB rosters as second basemen are converted shortstops. Martin Prado is a converted shortstop. He played shortstop in Venezuela. He moved around the diamond his first few years. He played every infield position outside of pitcher and catcher. He also played both corner outfield spots. Given his versatility, you can honestly sit there and tell me that he can’t play the position that he was playing when the Braves signed him? You obviously never played baseball if you can say he forgot how to play a position.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:02 pm

LOL have at it guys…..

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
1:02 pm

Another way to look at Adam Jones last year might be that for half of his games he was basically Alex Gonzalez.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:05 pm

2, Joey 2 major league games at SS, and played pitifully i may add by one Martin Prado, that i why he cannot play the position, as well as the Braves brass says NO! that in itself should be sufficient!

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
1:06 pm

You obviously never played baseball if you can say he forgot how to play a position.

I’m sure he could remember where to stand for cutoffs. Other than that…

Murph

December 15th, 2011
1:07 pm

Another way to look at Adam Jones last year might be that for half of his games he was basically Alex Gonzalez.

If I had known Jones could play SS too I would have posting about him long before yesterday! Holy crap, what are you waiting for Wren?

N8

December 15th, 2011
1:07 pm

“Alright, seems I need to educate some “fans” here.”

You sir are and idiot.

Many ML baseball players also likely played QB in high school too. Doesn’t mean I want them doing it for my team.

There is a big difference between being “able” to do it, and actually doing it well for a contending team

But, proceed with the “education” lesson. At least you’re entertaining.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:08 pm

Prado played shortstop 8 games in the minors – the last three being in 08. If he were a reasonable option to play shortstop, then the Braves would have played him there in the past and would consider him for that position now. They aren’t.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:08 pm

Martin Prado has played 10 games at short stop since 2003, the last being in 2008.

N8

December 15th, 2011
1:09 pm

“Beltran? nope! Willinghampton? nope! Seth Smith? nope! D.Young? nope! whole lotsa nopes.”

You forgot to add: “Does C3PO have a clue?”

In case you’re wondering, the answer to that is also “nope!”

Proceed.

N8

December 15th, 2011
1:10 pm

Wow. Cab and Lew “sharing a thought” at 1:08.

Congratulations, I’m sorry?

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
1:11 pm

There is a big difference between being “able” to do it, and actually doing it well for a contending team

Well, in Joey’s defense, I haven’t forgotten how to play CF, either. If it weren’t for that running-catching-throwing thing, I’d probably be out there, today. :-)

And I’d be excellent.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:11 pm

But WTF – If that logic actually held up, why don’t they move Uggla to short and put Martin at second? Or why didn’t they just keep Brooks Conrad to play short – hell, why not? He played second and third so he should be able to play short, shouldn’t he?

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:13 pm

Nathan – Just goes to prove that great minds think alike – even when they’re on different sides of the country.

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:13 pm

Well, YOU don’t try Prado at short, than what move to you make???

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:13 pm

I thought every Venezualan kid played SS… rolls eyes.

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
1:15 pm

I thought every Venezualan kid played SS

They did. Thirty pounds and ten years ago, for most.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:15 pm

What move? Well, obviously Pastornicky and a veteran backup is what Wren has in mind.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:16 pm

Chipper came up as a shortstop- I’m sure he can still play there!

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:17 pm

Joey, a legitimate shortstop is the move here, reasonably speaking, if the Braves believe in Pastornicky enough, then start him, if not then go get a proven vet , Ronny Cedeno, Robert Andino, etal…hell right now Wren may decide to go get Julio Lugo back, who knows, but I can tell you Prado will not be the shortstop, he cannot field the position, lack of range you know realistic standards that apply to the position. sort of like hiring a Chef, and asking him to run the fry vat at mickey dees….

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:17 pm

Good job JoeBrave!! Yeah, nothing wrong with the comment “I thought every Venezualan kid played SS”. It’s funny, Prado never played a game in pro ball at first base, yet he handled the position very well in Atlanta. Must have been a random coincidence.

K-man

December 15th, 2011
1:19 pm

Apologies for the delayed answer… I had to step away from the blogage to do some work.

DAP, I can say Adam Jones would be better defensive LF than Martin Prado because I was blessed with eyes and after decades of watching baseball, I know the difference in a good OF’er and a good infielder learning to play the OF. Simply stated, I can say it for the same reason I can say that Selma Hayak is prettier than Rosanne Barr — the eye test.

Martin could probably learn to be a good defensive LF, but for now he is at best average. And, with likely no more than this season in LF, he will not be given the opportunity to develop into a good LF. He is so good in the infield, he will not be used in MLB as an OF for long enough to get the experience required to be a good LF.

I can also say that Martin is a better infielder than Adam Jones – reverse logic from above.

Mercy, God gave a brain and I hope eyes, so use them!

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:19 pm

Carry on as you will Joey…. Prado at ss is wishful thinking, I’d like my wife to be a Jennifer Aniston clone, but I love her as she is!

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:20 pm

Big difference between playing a couple games at first and playig shortstop – perhaps full time – for the entire year.

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:20 pm

I just believe the Braves are a better team with Prado as a member than without. I like how everybody thinks Prado’s abilities are stuck at either second base or left field. I offered a suggestion. Now I have a bunch of “thumbs down” youtube watchers throwing up objections while not offering any solutions. This is boring me.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:21 pm

Not to mention that first base is the fallback position for everyone who can’t catch anymore or cover enough outfield ground. Shortstop? Not so much.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:21 pm

Prado never played a game in pro ball at first base, yet he handled the position very well in Atlanta

You should probably check your stats before posting comments like this. Martin has played 52 games at first base in the majors, all since 2008. Which is 50 more than he has played at short in the majors, none since 2008.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
1:21 pm

Any of you have an Elf on the Shelf?

One more thing I have never heard of before.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:22 pm

Lew you been watching youtube? I haven’t, but I have seen Prado at SS, and well….. I’ll be happy with Andino! :)

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:22 pm

If you’re so bored, we wouldn’t mind seeing you go do something else – at least now that you’ve educated us.

Mountain Braves Fan

December 15th, 2011
1:22 pm

In my perfect scenario, Cespedes establishes residency in the DR, becomes a free agent, and the Yankees outbid the Marlins for him. The Yankees then trade Swisher to the Braves, who promptly sign him to a four year extension.

Lollygagger

December 15th, 2011
1:22 pm

Chipper came up as a shortstop- I’m sure he can still play there!

depends on how big Chipper’s glove is, and whether Freeman got some stretchy plastic arms installed this offseason. ;)

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:23 pm

Lew@1:22 that was funny!

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:23 pm

JoeBrave – Nope- I have no sound card in my computer and just watching YouTube seems kind of pointless to me.

Hugo Z Hackenbush

December 15th, 2011
1:23 pm

He’s the chairman of the bored.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:24 pm

Inspector Gadget for first baseman?

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:24 pm

I hear ya Lew…youtube what a putdown.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:25 pm

Bill Naharodny for LF and all is well.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
1:25 pm

Well, better go put that education to use. Later y’all. Have fun. And make sure y’all take some extra ground balls at short.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:25 pm

or who was that fella oh yeah Albert Hall, too bad Rufino Linares has passed on.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:26 pm

Pepe Frias anyone?

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:28 pm

Okay Frank Wren, I gotta go in a bad way, but please take a look at Theriot, and maybe Erick Thames.

nelson

December 15th, 2011
1:31 pm

conrad ? who is conrad .. cmon ,,, moylan ? mister DL ? WHO CARES …

braves need movessssss … cmon wrenn …

jj and prado for jones and hardy … ronny cedeno ? really ?? only 2 hrs and 249 ave ? lmao

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
1:32 pm

JoeBrave – I assume you were joking about trading Hudson…Of course, I’m SURE you know he cannot be traded…10/5 guy who would never agree to a trade after giving Braves a big hometown discount. He and his wife are involved bigtime in Atlanta.

Jbailz

December 15th, 2011
1:32 pm

I have the movie Elf sitting on my shelf at home… Does that count?

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:33 pm

Andino?!?!?! You want a lifetime .245 hitter with a career .965 fielding position to be your starting short stop???? Great way to pick a guy that is not an upgrade either in the field or at the plate over Gonzalez. Let’s see, let’s move Prado off the team. Let’s face it, he can’t play shortstop. We bring in light hitting stone hands Andino for shortstop. Whats your next move???

ncscoots

December 15th, 2011
1:33 pm

Now I have a bunch of “thumbs down” youtube watchers throwing up objections while not offering any solutions.

Maybe the misplaced condescension just got you off on the wrong foot, and generated that feeling of, “You know, maybe it would feel good to hammer this guy with a tire iron.”

Figuratively, of course.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
1:35 pm

If I had known Jones could play SS too I would have posting about him long before yesterday! Holy crap, what are you waiting for Wren?

He played over 300 games there in the minors, thats a hell of a lot more than Prado. What say you, Joey M, yay or nay?

Jbailz

December 15th, 2011
1:36 pm

Joe/Raleigh – Not to mention trading Huddy would be a bad move IMO. Love the guys work ethic, he’s a great pitcher, and loved in the clubhouse and throughout Atlanta. He’s on of my favorite Braves.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
1:38 pm

He played over 300 games there in the minors, thats a hell of a lot more than Prado.

Man, Adam Jones couldn’t be any more perfect for this team! C’mon Frank, he solves every problem under the sun… SS, 3B (2 games in the minors), LF, CF, HR…

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:39 pm

Why does everybody here want to pick from Baltimore’s scrap heap???

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
1:41 pm

Jailz – Agreed! That’s why I said Joe must be joking. No one could take that suggestion seriously.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:42 pm

yes folks Huddy was a joke… I know the rules on guys of his stature!!

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
1:42 pm

ColoradoBravesFan I hope Braves sign either Bourn or maybe steal Victorino away from the Phils.

Dear lord in heaven!…Don’t even kid…

DAP

December 15th, 2011
1:43 pm

joey m Andino?!?!?! You want a lifetime .245 hitter with a career .965 fielding position to be your starting short stop????

ok, so now we know that you dont know what we are talking about. any SS option we bring up is as a backup. Pastornicky will be our starting SS, more than likely.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
1:43 pm

Prado at SS

Heap in LF

Trade JJ for Buster Posey

World Series here we come.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
1:44 pm

cab still here?

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:44 pm

Joey, that’s where you have me confused, I don’t want a damn thing Baltimore has. unless it’s JJ Hardy!
My preference is either Maicer Izturis, or Erick Aybar, but I understand that is a bit of a reach.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
1:45 pm

Joey M – Really good teams don’t often trade really good players (unless they have a plethora of options at one position). Teams like Baltimore, Houston, and KC are more likely to trade talent for prospects, or less expensive talent. This is why rosters on teams like Baltimore are srutinized (probably spelled wrong).

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
1:45 pm

Mitch (NC)
Any thought on Tyler Pastornicky? Looks like he’ll be starting.

Klaw
(1:41 PM)

Like him, chance to be a solid-average regular. No power, but can play short, good approach, adds value through baserunning.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:45 pm

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:46 pm

maybe Mac would be fair trade for Hardy, and Markakis… joke as well there Mcfann

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
1:46 pm

Goodness, Bat! I was scrolling up, so I read your post backwards and saw “Trade for Buster Posey” and thought you’d lost your marbles!

But I see now that you had us keeping BMac all along, so I guess you’re OK… :P

Murph

December 15th, 2011
1:47 pm

Why does everybody here want to pick from Baltimore’s scrap heap???

It’s better than Colorado’s scrap heap? I dunno.

Imagine you’re the ugly kid in school (it’s a stretch for me, but anyways) and you’ve got a crush on the hot cheerleader. She wants nothing to do with you, goes out of her way to avoid you. You spend your entire 4 years in high school lonely, sad, pining away for this girl… then, one day, the fat girl offers to knock boots with you under the bleachers during the school assembly.

Chances are that, despite your attraction and devotion to a girl that’s way out of your league, you’ll take the fat girl up on her offer because it’s better than anything other options that have come your way.

RC

December 15th, 2011
1:47 pm

Braves question on Keith Law’s ESPN chat:

Mitch (NC)

Any thought on Tyler Pastornicky? Looks like he’ll be starting.

Klaw (1:41 PM)

I hate the Atlanta Braves

Just kidding….his real answer:

Like him, chance to be a solid-average regular. No power, but can play short, good approach, adds value through baserunning.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:47 pm

ok Joey lesson over for the day…. on to the next subject.

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
1:47 pm

JoeBrave

Yeah, watch that… ;)

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
1:47 pm

Enter your comments here

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
1:48 pm

Mike B. (Chippewa Lake, OH)

Will Francisco Lindor crack your top-100? What kind of ceiling does he have in your opinion?

Klaw
(1:43 PM)

Safe to assume my entire pre-draft top 10 this year will be on this winter’s top 100 – could have as many as 20 2011 draftees on the list this year, since the draft was so strong. Above-average big league regular SS, hits for average, runs, plus defense, not much power.

And we take Sean Gilmartin. Charlie Brown like Ugh.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
1:49 pm

we indeed have an elf on the shelf

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
1:50 pm

photo’s of the little one and myself cutting down our christmas tree will soon be on twitter as well

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:51 pm

ok ladies, will someone explain the lalaloopsy fascination here?

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:51 pm

tiger297

Have you ever forgotten to move him? (My sister in law woke up in a panic at 3am the other night because she had to move the elf :lol: )

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:52 pm

@raleighbravefan I’m not petitioning for the trade of anybody. I made the suggestion of having Prado play third base when Chipper sits. Then when Chipper plays, Prado moves to short. When Prado is playing in place of Chipper, Pastornicky will play short. Pastornicky is not ready to play everyday in the bigs. I don’t see the problem with this scenario as Chipper plays maybe 100 games. Prado can hold the fort till Pastornicky is ready to take over full time. My scenario has the Braves trading nobody and signing a power bat. JoeBrave and Lew want to sign Baltimore rejects and trade our starting catcher. I am so glad they are not in charge. They are probably closet Philly fans.

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:53 pm

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
1:53 pm

kids! say the darndest things!

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:55 pm

Murph

December 15th, 2011
1:55 pm

I’ve been getting very creative with our elf… 2 nights ago I spread flour all over the kitchen counter and then made the elf make little snow angels. The wife had to clean it up, but what do I care?

Last night I created an epic scene where the elf was riding on Cinderella’s horse with her on the back and all of the other dolls were lined up in a big elf salute.

The 3 year old came downstairs this morning and said “Well, looks like Cookie (the elf) has a girlfriend.”

Mitchie-sand

December 15th, 2011
1:56 pm

If one more person says Prado can play short, I’m taking a hostage.

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
1:56 pm

Jim (Hartford, CT)

Is Seth Smith, Tim Wheeler and Josh Rutledge a fair haul for Jair Jurrjens?

Klaw
(1:55 PM)

I don’t think so. More quantity than quality.

I got that one in, just for TenneseePaul. ;)

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
1:57 pm

@JoePhilly I guess for your next trick you are going to recommend the Braves trade Kimbrel to the Phillies in exchange for Wilson Valdez.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
1:58 pm

Murph-

:lol: You sound like the moms in the blog link I posted :)

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
1:59 pm

JJ to the Yankees for Alex Rodriguez and cash. Alex plays SS and keep Prado in LF

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:00 pm

cab – not yet…its routine I move him after I let the dogs out-for the first week after christmas I will look for him every night b4 I remember he is in the attic

Jbailz

December 15th, 2011
2:00 pm

Efrim – Finally!!!! Someone else speaks up about crap off the scrap heap in Colorado for a Cy Young talent pitcher. I’d put money on the fact if JJ stays in Atlanta and is healthy all year he is in the top 5 Cy Young vote.

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
2:01 pm

Jason (Atlanta, GA)

Please answer one question on Andrelton Simmons! Is he a SS long term?

Klaw
(2:00 PM)

Yes. Question is the bat. Plus range and arm.

That’s actually a better response than I

Murph

December 15th, 2011
2:01 pm

cab, this is our first (and last) year with the elf thing.

Problem is, it turns every morning into Christmas morning. The 3 year old wakes up super early and starts hunting for the elf. When she finds it, usually around 5:30am, she runs into our room screaming and yelling about where Cookie is and what he’s doing.

It’s a bit much.

Efrim

December 15th, 2011
2:02 pm

Okay….

I meant: That’s actually a better respose than I expected.

Zing

December 15th, 2011
2:02 pm

You’re funny, Bat.

Murph

December 15th, 2011
2:03 pm

PT, did you hear about Sam Hurd?

The Bears implosion continues…

Zing

December 15th, 2011
2:03 pm

Love these comments proposing Beltran in CF and Prado at SS. That might just result in a historically bad defensive team.

Brava

December 15th, 2011
2:04 pm

JJ to the Yankees for Alex Rodriguez and cash. Alex plays SS and keep Prado in LF

I like it except Prado has to play SS and Alex can play LF.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:06 pm

Thanks, Zing

Fine with me, Brava.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
2:07 pm

Murph/tiger-

This is why I have nephews and not kids of my own :) No worrying about where the elf is, no early morning screaming, no epic scenes that need to be cleaned up later :D

nolie

December 15th, 2011
2:08 pm

Adam Jones might even be an upgrade over Bourn in CF x-men

bulogna, Jones is a mediocre CFer at the very best, Bourn is the real deal

Tomas

December 15th, 2011
2:08 pm

I was right on with Willingham’s deal, 3 years 21 million

Patrick

December 15th, 2011
2:09 pm

What happened to Hurd???

TnBrian

December 15th, 2011
2:09 pm

Why even argue with people suggesting Prado at SS? It won’t happen, obviously. Stuff like this makes me wonder who is more bored with life – the ones suggesting it, or the ones constantly arguing why it won’t happen.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
2:11 pm

What happened to Hurd???

He turned out to be less then bright…

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:11 pm

Now that Ryan Braun is damaged goods maybe we could trade JJ and Zeke Spruill to the Brewers for him. Braun in LF, Prado at SS

TnBrian

December 15th, 2011
2:13 pm

Make your point and move on. DOB is awesome at this. That’s why he has his own successful blog. No way would he get so many hits if he just sat around for hours arguing his point over and over and over calling those people “and idiots” and whatever else. People would get so sick of it.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
2:13 pm

Hillbilly

December 15th, 2011
2:13 pm

Murph/Tiger/Cab,

I moved the Hillbilly Elf off the fireplace the other night so I could build a fire and my daughter destroyed me. What the hell? I didn’t study up on this stuff I guess. Evidently I don’t know the rules.

Atlanta Braves

December 15th, 2011
2:18 pm

We are proud to announce the latest initiative in our ever-growing environmental awareness program. This season, we will be recycling lineup cards from last season. Manager Fredi Gonzalez has agreed to a 1 year/$200 contract to man the team’s shortstop position during each game. This will allow Braves prospect, Tyler Pastornicky, to spend at least half the season at our AAA affiliate, the Gwinnett Braves to further his development. While Gonzalez’ salary increase puts a burden on our already strained finances, we are willing to make this sacrifice for our loyal fans.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:19 pm

Wow Hillbilly, you wrecked its magic. Coal for you this year.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:20 pm

hillbilly – oh no you took his magic you bastard…don’t worry he can be forgiving

cab – I wont go into the topic of parenthood here (I’ll save that discussion til after a little in & out)

ISH

December 15th, 2011
2:20 pm

Where does everyone stand on re-signing BMac when the time comes? Or is it too early to debate?

old man

December 15th, 2011
2:21 pm

“Jones OBP was around .278 for almost half the games he played last year.”

What does that mean?

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
2:22 pm

tiger-

All I know is that if I had the Elf, I would spend half the night awake in fear that Nala would eat it and traumatize the poor kid for life…

JoeBrave

December 15th, 2011
2:24 pm

heck no, JJ for Buster Posey and Mac can play SS!!! :)

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:24 pm

nebody else seen the paperless ticketing thing the braves are offering this year…we will see how it works out but it looks pretty nice and you can electronically transfer tickets for free now. They scan ur credit card and print tickets at the gate. I’ll miss the tradition of opening the big package of tickets but not dealing with them over the course of the season.

Can’t wait til we can just show them our smart phone. Its going to be a bear for the ushers I’ll bet.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:27 pm

nah you learn to craft creative stories to cover your issues – throw elf in trash. When kid can’t find the elf tell them they must not have been good the previous day and they better be extra special in hopes the elf comes back. Then go buy another one (they are identical) problem solved.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:27 pm

or the other alternative put the elf out of reach of the dog…

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:28 pm

wait I thought mac went to LF chipper to SS and prado at 3B…now I’m confused

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:29 pm

wow middle of the day and I killed the blog

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:29 pm

hello is this thing on…

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:30 pm

where is BAS…guess I’ll go have a drink by myself

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:31 pm

cab – we do love our elf and the excitement in my kid’s eyes are amazing. One of the reasons to have kids is the holidays if you do them right.

What about Marteen PRADO at center field and Michal Bourn at short stop? lmao

December 15th, 2011
2:31 pm

Enter your comments here

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:32 pm

and he is so excited to go skiing this year…wonder if that will last when the hard work of learning it starts

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:33 pm

doh broken up by enter your comments wow

Murph

December 15th, 2011
2:35 pm

On Christmas Eve I’m going to make a little noose and put Cookie in it… then explain to my girls that they were so bad that Cookie decided to hang himself rather than tell Santa that don’t get presents.

That ought to mess ‘em both up for a couple of years.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
2:36 pm

tiger297-

Did you really throw it away? haha!

My 4 year old nephew apparently gets super excited every morning to see where the elf landed. And my 3 month old nephew refuses to let it out of his sight for the rest of the day :)

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
2:37 pm

tiger padding his stats I see

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:38 pm

no…I haven’t let the dogs get ahold of it yet. I was just pointing out you can quickly adapt to any scenario

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:40 pm

BC – if I waited til someone responded it would seriously curtail my communication (might be a good thing but I’m having none of it :) )

Braveone

December 15th, 2011
2:41 pm

From the previous blog which had 6,476 comments, Efrim led the way with 529 posts. There were 307 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:

Rank Poster Frequency

1 Efrim 529
2 nolie 471
3 Ward 250
4 cabravesfan 249
5 VaBravesFan 201
6 Murph 189
7 Lew 164
8 Brava 153
9 TnBrian 145
10 P’cola Brave 141
11 Tom O’Hawke 131
12 JoeBrave 127
13 David O’Brien 125
14 N8 120
15 Venice Jim 114
16 CB 108
17 TennesseePaul 98
18 ncscoots 98
19 MIBravesFan 89
20 richbrave 85
21 Lollygagger 83
22 jeffrey d 77
23 DAP 75
24 DS1 73
25 BFChris27 67

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:42 pm

Don’t tease, tiger. They don’t allow drinking here. Trust me; I checked.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
2:43 pm

Joey M – I understood your position, or at least, I do now.

BTW, I don’t know about JoeBrave, but I can assure you that Lew is no closet Phillies Fan! (LOL)

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:44 pm

One of these times I’m gonna make that damn list…

Braveone, thanks again. Can’t wait for your yearly deal. Hope you’re doing that again.

Venice Jim

December 15th, 2011
2:44 pm

I love the way Tom shows up for 2 nights in a blog period, yet still outdistances me easily…

Mitchie-sand

December 15th, 2011
2:45 pm

Dang! 67 to break top 25? Ill never hit those kinda numbers.

Tomas

December 15th, 2011
2:45 pm

I think Adam Jones, would be a good pickup for Atlanta. He is an over valued player because he can be a 5 tool player, he is very athletic. But he hasn’t showed it yet in mlb, his low OBP is indicative of he being impatient, chases a lot of pitches, and as we saw with Franceour, a very big weakness. He has power, 20-30 HR power, and while his routes in the OF are bad, he’s athlectiveness makes up for some mistakes, and he has a good arm. He is cheap and arguably one of the top 10 CF in the game, that just tells us how bad mlb CF are right now.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
2:46 pm

im slipping quickly off the list

BAS – used to work for a company with HQ in france so our corporate policy read “no more than 2 drinks with lunch” I had a vendor and who could drink when his client drank and none of his other clients drank. It was good for at least one lunch a week. 2 fishbowl margaritas with lunch made for an interesting afternoon.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:46 pm

Thanks, Braveone.

Its been awhile since I made the list. Time to start posting random BS again.

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:46 pm

529 v 471.

A little blog war is good for business.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:49 pm

The weather has been really nice here lately.

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:49 pm

Nice tiger. Interesting for you. Siesta for me.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:50 pm

Has anyone been getting any snow this year?

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:51 pm

Grocery store, Bat. Stat-padding should always start with the grocery store (even if you just tell us the same story again). The beach is a close second.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:51 pm

How long has this Elf thing been going on?

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
2:52 pm

I just noticed 2 things…I only hit the top 25 once in a while, and Efrim needs to get a life.

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
2:52 pm

sounds like a match made in heaven tiger, but surely a little extra creativity and initiative could have come up with excuses for a need to meet more than just once a week?

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:52 pm

No snow here. cab/VJ?

Mitchie-sand

December 15th, 2011
2:52 pm

No snow over here. That would be glorious.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
2:53 pm

old man “Jones OBP was around .278 for almost half the games he played last year.”

What does that mean?

it means that about 80 terrible games bookended his season. bad at the beginning, bad at the end, good in the middle.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
2:53 pm

BAS _

I have a trip to the grocery store coming up, wish me luck.

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:55 pm

“Efrim needs to get a life.”

Bull. The comments here are worthwhile in large part because of his posts. If he (or his ilk) gets a life (as you put it), this place’ll be hopeless.

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
2:56 pm

Snow? Here? We are lucky when we get an inch of rain every 6 months…

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
2:58 pm

Good luck, Bat.

I’m living vicariously through a stranger, and his trip to the grocery store. It suddenly occurs to me that I may be in need of some life-getting. Suggestions, raleigh?

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
2:59 pm

BAS – I was just kidding around. I enjoy Efrim (and nolie too, for that matter) no matter how much they post.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:00 pm

BAS – Just use your imagination, and keep a good attitude!

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
3:01 pm

We are lucky when we get an inch of rain every 6 months… _ cab

The way you tell it, it seems more like, you are lucky to live through an inch of rain every six months.

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
3:01 pm

Me too, raleigh. I don’t like when the debate gets too personal, and becomes a fight. I’d like to think each has earned enough of the other’s respect that it wouldn’t go there. Shame when it does.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:02 pm

cab – Yeah, East and West coasts are light night and day (Venus and Mars, men and women) about climate, and a lot of things. Fortunately, I’m one who celebrates diversity.

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
3:02 pm

STORM WATCH, 2011!

You get those?

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:04 pm

BAS@3:01 – Agree 100%. Love aa good spirited debate, or at least a respectful sharing of ideas. I hate an argument. It’s kind of an “open mind” vs a “closed mind” thing.

Ward

December 15th, 2011
3:04 pm

Hello everyone! Did some searching,and found out the Braves are still in talks with Baltimore,and at the same time searching the left over veteran SS. Doesn’t sound like that deal with Baltimore will happpen.

Ward

December 15th, 2011
3:06 pm

There is 5 teams looking at Beltran,but don’t know who they are?

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:06 pm

Scott Boras want approaching 10/254 for Prince?

Hey, I just want the Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus to throw in a fix my fence!

I don’t really ask for much……………

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
3:07 pm

I was getting my hair cut last week when some guy stuck his head in the door and asked the ladies if they waxed eyebrows. They do, so he was having it done when I left. I don’t think it will help him get laid which ever way he swings.

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:08 pm

raleigh

I’ve always wondered, how does one celebrate diversity? I celebrate Christmas, payday and the Braves. But that one’s got me stumped.

:wink:

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:11 pm

Bat

Funny. How ya been? I can think of parts of me that I’d wax before my eyebrows.

Joey M

December 15th, 2011
3:14 pm

My whole point was giving Pastornicky time to mature and adjust to major league pitching. We are spoiled to have rookies that perform so well right out of the chute. I can hope all day long that Pastornicky will be as good in his rookie campaign as Heyward, Freeman, and Kimbrel. But hoping and reality are 2 different things. My recommendation of putting Prado at shortstop obviously isn’t going to be the defensive equivalent of Gonzalez, but remember Freeman saved maybe 20 throwing errors with his world class glove. Prado has great instincts for the ball. He has better than average range. And, he has a great arm. Chipper will not play 162 games. Hopefully he will play over 100. If we don’t make a move like I propose and Chipper misses more than half of the season, we will be stuck bringing up a minor league player or going after an unsigned infielder.

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
3:14 pm

Wayne, I’m well and you?

It made me laugh, I mean the guy did not have a unibrow, but he did have a rather unfortunate face.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:15 pm

DS1 – Usually with some form of adult beverage. :)

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
3:17 pm

I think there are a few older posters, perhaps nolie and Lew come to mind the quickest , whose health issues probably add to their irritability a lot. High blood pressure, constant pain and worry, diabetic complications etc can’t make for a peaceful easy feeling I’m sure.

MFin04

December 15th, 2011
3:18 pm

“10/254 for Prince?”

Wow. In what parallel universe is Prince Fielder as good a player as Albert Pujols?

So Prince is 4 years younger and a career .280/.390/.540/.930

Albert is obviously 4 years older and a career .330/.420/.620/.1040

I can see how those guys are eerily similar. Especially since Albert is a better base-runner and defender. :roll:

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
3:19 pm

By the way, Wayne, I’m keeping an eye on URRE. Its been between .50 and 1.50 in the past couple of months, .78 right now, trending down. Uranium mining stock.

tiger297

December 15th, 2011
3:19 pm

BC – after katrina it was 2-3 times a week

flange1

December 15th, 2011
3:19 pm

Joey,

Prado has limited range at 2B and 3B, he is only average at those 2 positions which are his “good” positions.

At 1B he is below average.

At SS, he would be the worst without a doubt in the major leagues. Maybe AAA and AA as well.

The Braves have said repeatedly that Prado is not and will not play SS.

Good try, it would be great if it would work, but not. going. to. happen.

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:20 pm

Bat – I’m not really into waxing anything, although as I age, I do have to do more and more trimming of hair on various facial appendages, but hey…it’s his face and his money, so have at it, I say.

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
3:20 pm

“He has better than average range (at ss).”

“If you believe this, well then Jed, I don’t even want to know you.”

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:21 pm

Bat, I’m doing well myself. Flying home in a few minutes.

Joey M

I see that many on the blog tried to convince you that Prado is not a major league quality SS. A shortstop needs good hands, good range and a strong arm.

The throws from second and third are much shorter than the throws from SS in the hole. Much shorter. And most infielders started out in HS or equivalent ball as the SS.

Prado is an average at best second and third baseman, with somewhat limited range for those positions. He’d be totally lost at SS. Totally lost. Besides, if it were possible for him to play SS, then why wouldn’t the Braves have already given up on a backup for Pastornicky? They know more than most of us bloggers.

By continuing to suggest that Prado could handle some SS only shows how little you truly know about the nuances of the game.

Just sayin…………..

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
3:21 pm

Prado is rated as an above average third baseman from the numbers I’ve seen anyway

Ward

December 15th, 2011
3:21 pm

You think Prince could’ve used steroids?

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
3:22 pm

“I can think of parts of me that I’d wax before my eyebrows.”

Bannable?

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:22 pm

BC Brave – We old guys just enjoy being a bit grouchy. It’s the inner curmudgeon comming out. We’ve earned that right.

Ward

December 15th, 2011
3:23 pm

DS1- I agree with ypur 3:21 post on Prado.

Jbailz

December 15th, 2011
3:24 pm

No snow in Utah yet. Really wish it would, it’s like falling money!!!

Bay Area Steve

December 15th, 2011
3:25 pm

“We old guys just enjoy being a bit grouchy. It’s the inner curmudgeon comming out. We’ve earned that right.”

I agree with this, but dammit. I’m not as old, and haven’t earned the right. How do I get away with it?

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
3:26 pm

raleigh_

Slow time of the year for the ladies so they were happy to have something to do and he was smiling when I left, a good thing all around.

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:26 pm

Bat

I’ll do a little research this when I land later tonight.

raleigh

Those other areas of the face with every increasing hair are a pain in the azz.

Later folks

Ward

December 15th, 2011
3:27 pm

Sorry that not much else is happening? I’m waiting just like everyone else. All hang in there,and I’m sure Wren, will make something happen. Talk later my friends,and peace……

raleighbravefan

December 15th, 2011
3:27 pm

BAS – We could always make you an honorary grouch, but don’t abuse it.

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
3:28 pm

That might be part of it raleigh, but regular pain and high blood pressure both bring out the worst in most people pretty quickly

Biff Pocoroba

December 15th, 2011
3:30 pm

Re: Willingham … Braves wouldn’t give him the three-years he wanted. Better just prepare ourselves for a LF platoon for ‘12 because Wren can’t/won’t spend the money to get an everyday player. sighhhhhhhhhhhh

Juan

December 15th, 2011
3:30 pm

The Five team looking at Beltran are: St. Loius,Rockies,Blue jays,Boston,Baltimore and don’t discard the Phillies. If i going to guess the Team of the East Coast has the more chance to sign him, because he already said that he will like to stay in the East Coast becuase he want to keep close eye in his Baseball Academy in Puerto rico.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
3:32 pm

DS! I’ve always wondered, how does one celebrate diversity?

and why would you celebrate a large wooden ship, used during the civil war?

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
3:34 pm

why would you celebrate a large wooden ship, used during the civil war? @DAP

just to be different

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
3:41 pm

BAS-

STORM WATCH! Yes- every time there is a drizzle…or the hint of a drizzle

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
3:42 pm

I find it hard to come up with a reason that Baltimore would be in on Beltran

Bat Masterson

December 15th, 2011
3:45 pm

I’ve always wondered, how does one celebrate diversity?

I don’t know about anyone else but I celebrate with Sly and the Family Stone

And different strokes for different folks
And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo-bee

http://youtu.be/EgVOR28iG_o

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:51 pm

Late plane

The folks up here in the Seattle area are hoping for Yu Darvish. They were coming up with a lot of funny tag lines:

We love Yu

Yu light up my life

Just Yu and me kid (Bogart accent)

Whassa madda wich Yu?

MiaBchBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
3:55 pm

BCBrave: I agree. Makes absolutely no sense. Beltran is a gimp on the downslope of his career. Adam Jones is just hitting his prime. Mkes more sense for them to take a run at Darvish, or have signed Beuhrle. Unless they hate paying big bucks for pitchers and prefer to get them on the relative cheap, like a JJ for AJones trade permutation.

ray barnes

December 15th, 2011
3:55 pm

too tender brooks conrad is the most stupid thing i ever read. however you just can’t fix stupid.

Mikeyc588

December 15th, 2011
3:56 pm

One of the main selling points of Fielder is one of the main things that scare me about him: his durability. He’s averaged 160 games a season since he became a full-time player. I can only think of a few pre-PED era players (Aaron at 39, Mays at 40 etc.) who found ways to be All-Star level players into their late 30’s and at 5′11″ and 275 lbs, I wouldn’t bet $20m a year that Fielder is the next Mays or Aaron. The Adrian Gonzalez deal seems like a good comp to me. I wouldn’t got much past it if I were a GM.

MiaBchBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
3:57 pm

Bat, wanna celebrate REAL diversity in all its unfettered female glory?

Come down to South Miami Beach, brutha. Makes Baskin-Robbins look like a neopolitan box. :-)

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
3:59 pm

ISH Where does everyone stand on re-signing BMac when the time comes?

I’m for it…

cabravesfan

December 15th, 2011
3:59 pm

too tender brooks conrad is the most stupid thing i ever read. however you just can’t fix stupid.

Where did you read this?

MR

December 15th, 2011
3:59 pm

I’m sure Mr. Conrad is a very nice person, most people are. But my idea about not bringing back Conrad last season was precisely the reasons you gave for bringing him back. Remember, Conrad was always known as a no-bat-all-glove ballplayer with grit. The fact that he put up good clutch numbers at the plate told me he hit waaaaay beyond his abilities that season and had nowhere to go but down, like he did. The fact that he cost us a playoff win all by himself with his GLOVE just cemented his fate as to not return to the Braves again. To win a WS it takes several players on your team having career years in that season, especially a team built on the cheap like the Braves are. I would not ever expected anyone to think that we could have captured lightning in a bottle twice with Brooks Conrad.

DS1

December 15th, 2011
3:59 pm

Bat

That’s just a phrase that has always puzzled me. While I appreciate and support diversity and equality, I celebrate success!

And I celebrate with Three Dog Night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXI6CdTVJ-0

And most of us are paid on success, not diversity.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
4:01 pm

Joey M (I got my name from when I was in the Backstreet Boys) – When did I mention trading our catcher?

MiaBchBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
4:01 pm

ray, that’s just heartless. There’s a good chance he may not be picked up by another club at his age. He’s facing the possible end of his career. Now he’s gotta make plans for his family’s future.

Aparently, you’re not big on counting your own blessings, so you can have relative compassion for your fellow man’s plight. Guess you missed that day in pre-school.

DAP

December 15th, 2011
4:02 pm

MR Remember, Conrad was always known as a no-bat-all-glove ballplayer with grit.

you have that completely backwards. and check his minor league numbers if you dont believe me. nobody thought that he couldnt hit.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
4:02 pm

Ward – What makes you think Prince used steroids? All that muscle mass?

McFann O O o

December 15th, 2011
4:04 pm

Lew When did I mention trading our catcher?

Prolly never…you’re too smart to pull a stunt like that…

MiaBchBravesFan

December 15th, 2011
4:05 pm

He’s still productive and an AS catcher. Is he a lynchpin? No. However, is he worth Joe Mauer money? Yes. Will he get it from the Braves?

No.

Lew

December 15th, 2011
4:06 pm

McFann – You know it never happened. We’ve just had some confused youth on here this morning. He was full of all sorts of weird notions.

BraveFaninBC

December 15th, 2011
4:07 pm

I didn’t think he would hit all that well in the majors, and he really hasn’t except for some isolated dramatics. His last few years at AAA before the Braves signed him he averaged about a 245 batting average. He also was a bad fielder, so the impression most had was that he just was not a very good player at all and that is why he stayed in the minors so long