1:12 am December 14, 2011, by David O'Brien
December 14th, 20114:07 pm
this makes no sense since metrics show Bourn as a good defender and Jones as a poor one in CF.
Sometimes i wonder about this guy
What’s left to wonder? Bowden’s history as a GM with both Cincy and Washington should tell you just about all you need to know about his analysis. I’m actually suprised at this point when he makes a suggestion that I don’t immediately dimiss as a terrible idea.
December 14th, 20114:09 pm
Nick. Punto. Break out the McLouth-Candles.
December 14th, 20114:14 pm
As Freddie Freeman’s BFF today…….I hate to see him buried that low in a batting order……but that’s pretty good.
1995 was 16 years ago
I’m glad we didn’t get Punto. He’s basically another Rafael Belliard. Keppinger is the guy I want, though I don’t know if he’s even on the Braves’ radar screen. I would imagine he’d be a little pricier than Punto, because Keppinger more fits the profile of an everyday player.
December 14th, 20114:15 pm
Our #1 option to sign as SS is a guy who wasn’t good enough for the Pirates. Yeesh.
The strange part is that I don’t think there was really anything else that could have been done. With the crazy contracts that have been handed out to career backups this winter and the incredibly shallow pool of human being capable of playing SS, going with Pastornicky and hoping for the best really is our best option probably. Unless there is some way to free up some payroll for Jimmy Rollins, but we all know that’s not going to happen.
December 14th, 20114:16 pm
It hasn’t been as bad as many others on here would want you to believe, either…murph
not quite, but Camden is usually something of a homer park and usually the Ted isn’t. For a modern CFer he is likely one of the better hitters even with the crappy OBP. but that is more an indictment of modern CFers than a complement to him. and he needs to station himself farther back to begin with since his deep stats are so poor
December 14th, 20114:19 pm
RC, the only real problem I see with that, is the Jason Heyward factor. If he doesn’t bounch back, we have a third of our line-up as Hey/Past/Pitcher not to mention we don’t yet know who’s playing LF. If we bring in a guy, he’ll get the Braves jersey curse and have a rough go at it.
This is a pretty critical year if Braves management want one more post-season appearance for Chipper. If Heyward wasn’t such a question mark right now it would make the decision a lot easier to plug in as the #8 hitter.
Did Jack Wilson sign yet? I know he can’t hit his weight, but he is a good glove man, can play 3b and 2b as well as SS, and seems to be a nice enough guy. Plus, with Peter Moylan possibly gone, who on the team is ugly enough to make Eric Hinske feel attractive every now and then?
December 14th, 20114:21 pm
I think it’s becoming clear that since he had plenty of opportunity to sign Punto but didn’t, could have traded for Lowrie or Scutaro but didn’t, then let Conrad go… Wren has a plan for the infield. Something besides his arm is up his sleeve. Just because he has been quiet so far doesn’t mean he hasn’t laid out plans for numerous trades/signings. He’s just waiting to see if anything better comes up while he waits for answers on prior conversations.
If Heyward doesn’t bounce back, I don’t think the Braves have enough in the tank to make a serious run at the playoffs anyway. There are certain things that the team simply has to hope for, because if they don’t happen we are in trouble anyway.
December 14th, 20114:22 pm
I think it’s becoming clear that since he had plenty of opportunity to sign Punto but didn’t, could have traded for Lowrie or Scutaro but didn’t, then let Conrad go… Wren has a plan for the infield.
Yeah, I think you are probably right. Maybe he’s going to sign Ken Griffey Jr.!
(sorry, that was uncalled for….but funny)
December 14th, 20114:24 pm
c’mon najeh. DOB can be snarky and defensive and surly and….gee that sounds familiar
but the guy puts in tremendous hours and gives us all the info that he can.
can’t really ask for more than he puts out
Brave New World
DOB: Thanks for “highlighting” the sad little comments of “Mr. Frisky.” I’m sure he’s enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. People like Mr. Frisky could learn a lesson in class from a guy like Brooks Conrad – if only they cared to learn.
If the Yankees sign the Japanesse SS they won the posting for, maybe that frees them up to trade Edwardo Nunez.
December 14th, 20114:28 pm
maybe wren didnt want to go two years for punto. its understandable.
December 14th, 20114:29 pm
Maybe he’s going to sign Ken Griffey Jr.!
Nah, we already have a “kid” at SS…
Damn you, Mr. Wren! Are you proud of yourself? You’ve gone and let Nick Punto slip through your fingers like some greasy chicken leg. We could have been a contender, but no, you didn’t have the courage to pull the trigger and you got outgunned by the other historically collapsible team. When will you learn? Without Punto, we are doomed to a season of ridicule and mediocrity. What a shameful day to be a Braves fan. I’m not sure I can recover from this. I feel violated.
I like Drew Sutton that we picked up. I think he will be our answer at util.
December 14th, 20114:30 pm
MLB Network is reporting deal is off. Just a rumor that has been shot down.
DOB: I know you probably have seen the post from Ken Rosenthal about a possible deal between the Orioles and Braves. Do you think a deal of Prado, JJ and Pastornicky for Adam Jones and JJ Hardy is a equitable swap?
I have often wondered why in so many of the proposed trades on the blog, the REAL actual lynch pin is treated like an afterthought. Pastornicky is the primary reason for the trade because Wren is not sure if he is a MLB SS or not. Get JJ Hardy in here and SS is taken care of for two years. Well, in two years JJ Hardy will be gone and the powers that be will know if Pastornicky can get more than 1 hit every 4 AB’s and catch more than 47 of 50 balls. Unfortunate since he’s in Baltimore.
So Prado is gone, JJ Hardy is gone, JJ Jurrjens is gone and Pastornicky is gone. Maybe Adam Jones will sign a long term deal and stay. We do a lot of that you know.
December 14th, 20114:35 pm
Didn’t realize the deal was ever “on.”
December 14th, 20114:37 pm
I don’t know why people are so worried about Pastornicky’s long-term value. It’ll likely be as either a trade piece or a backup IF once Andrelton Simmons is ready for the majors. He is Gonzo-like with his defense, and has a nearly Furcal-level arm. Bat is the only question for him, and even then it’s simply can he hit enough to not be a total embarrassment, because the defense is enough to get him on the field.
December 14th, 20114:40 pm
I’m pretty sure that “Punto Uggla” is a very offensive phrase in Latin America, and that is why he was not signed.
Every time the opposition hit into a DP it would have led to riots in the Dominican.
The man has no shame….scoots
he also watches the crappiest reality shows on tv, course they are ALL crappy. but Murph’s tv taste is as atrocious as his taste in ballplayers………….
December 14th, 20114:44 pm
Wow, Murph’s CBI dropping like a sack of potatoes. Tough crowd. Chin up, Murph.
December 14th, 20114:49 pm
This “Chipper in the third hole by default” thinking has got to STOP. If we were fortunate enough to get Adam Jones via trade, he has to hit in the third hole; he is not the patient two-hole hitter you need to replace Prado if he were to depart via trade. If Prado were to leave, and the Braves were unable to obtain a SS that gets walks and has a decent OBP (honestly, where is that guy?), then you would have no choice but to place Chipper in the 2-spot – an undesirable option for a team that wants to get quicker and more athletic.
Losing Prado affects two fielding positions and two spots in the order. Be careful what you wish for if Chipper is forced to hit in the upper third of the order. Chipper’s body is a train wreck that cannot handle the rigors of 120 full games, let alone 140-150 games in 2012. When Chipper is out next season – and that will be often – it will always throw off Fredi’s best laid plans.
They better find someone that can play 3B as a “backup” STAT!
Murph – I still think you’re OK.
December 14th, 20114:52 pm
charles, who even said a deal was on? did i miss someone saying that?
December 14th, 20114:53 pm
No worries on Punto, there are still several alternative options out there.
I cast much doubt on the rumored Jones/Hardy for Prado/JJ deal… I imagine the Orioles would want someone like Vizcaino or Hoover at minimum along with someone like Bethancourt (and they would throw in a prospect as well). I don’t really see how this matches up . Jones would be an OK CF’er in 2013 but a step down as far as total value goes due to his mediocre D. Hardy would be a great pickup at SS however….
It is all too good to be true IMO, and I don’t see a match there.
@Lew I’m gonna try to calmly explain to you my position and I hope I don’t make this too complicated for you. I’m not obsessed with payroll, I’m really not its how you spend it. D. Lowe McClouth and Kawakami were not good spendatures. But The Braves have a good team no doubt but with the collapse they had last season changes are needed. Now the change they really needed to make was to fire Gonzalaz but since he is too “Buddy Buddy” with the good ole boys here thats not gonna happen. Then where do you go, obviously you bring some new players. IMO the Free Agent market didn’t have any players I saw to go after. But we have tradable assests to go after another outfield bat or a SS in Jurrjens and Prado (although I really don’t want to trade Prado) But Jurrjens is expendable and we should have and could have made a move. Also with the way the bullpen got burned out last season we need more arms andanother closer type to take the load off of O’Ventrbrel. Because if not we will have 1 of them go down next year with Tommy John surgery. Now I’ve gone an entire post without insulting you or being angry. Now can you go an entire post without being a tool and a complete spaz, thanks and god bless.
December 14th, 20114:54 pm
yeah Murph is a good egg as far as eggs run
…but then, who likes runny eggs?
and no way Adam Jones hits third.he’ll be luchy to hit 750 in the Ted
Chipper had the second highest OPS on the team no reason to think he wouldn’t start the season hitting third anyway
December 14th, 20114:56 pm
nolie – but chipper is older now…so he sucks
come on man keep up
I think a JJ, Pastornicky and Prado for Jones, Hardy and a bench player would benefit the Braves in several areas. I know Prado is a God to people and I love him too but Jones and Hardy have pop and are solid defensively. I’d like to see both of them in Braves unis.
December 14th, 20114:57 pm
Brave New World,I’ve never once on this blog took a shot at any other blogger.A couple of times at DOB he is gracious and can take the ribbing.The players all the time that goes with being a public figure.You stay classy my friend.
With the quality of names of players being thrown around like Cedeno & Keppinger I’m thinking Liberty Media has like $50 bucks to spend not $8 million. $8 million could get them Jimmy Rollins.
Red Sox passed on Cedeno because his hands and a bat have never met. He can’t hit period.
BTW I just renewed my season tickets so now that Wren knows that this is where he trades JV.
Sorry for making everybody wait but its the way it had to be.
December 14th, 20114:58 pm
DOB went off old school on Mister Frisky & Najeh ! LMAO !
December 14th, 20114:59 pm
Brava, your 4:29 p.m. comment made me laugh. Because I was thinking same thing after reading some of these other overwrought assessments of the situation. I mean, who’d have thunk Nick Punto could get people revved up?
By the way, the O’s will be more apt to trade Hardy than Jones. Jones is the known commodity with club control; Hardy is the one year wonder they’ll trade in a heartbeat for pitching. If the Braves leave this negotiation with only Hardy, they’re idiots. They want Adam Jones, and can find a veteran SS in ST to back up / split time with Pastornicky, who will not disappoint in the 8 hole while he gets his OJT / audition.
December 14th, 20115:01 pm
I think it’s not so much that the Braves don’t want to spend $8 million this year on Rollins, but they don’t want to commit to him for $8 million for each of the next 4 years.
That said, I do think they would be well served to go ahead and offer Rollins a 4-year, $8 million per deal. He could very easily turn that down, but if he does you are at least ensuring that the Phillies have to beat that price to acquire him next year. And if you get him, let Pastornicky be the backup SS (or season him more at AAA), and go with the outfield alignment you’ve currently got. While it’d be nice to have some power from LF, adding Rollins bat at SS makes up the difference, and you get to keep Prado and JJ.
December 14th, 20115:04 pm
gotta pass on Rollins. guy is not even quite an league average and will fade out more over the next few years, plus he would lose pop away from Philly park
It appears that the braves must not have wanted Punto that much, cause it took the Red Sox no time at all to sign him, after they traded Lowrie
December 14th, 20115:05 pm
And possibly Pastor Nicky could become a 3B after Chipper goes hunting year-round ?
I know my tastes in TV and movies are not as high-brow as some of the blog intellectuals, but I’m ok with that… I watch stuff that’s entertaining. If I feel the need to get a “message” from a work of fiction I’ll go spend the day in chur… oops, no religion, no politics.
December 14th, 20115:06 pm
RC: a decent argument, but the problem is J-Ro’s health. In the past couple of seasons, the guy can’t seem to stay off the DL. At that price, the Braves do not need him.
December 14th, 20115:09 pm
patrick It appears that the braves must not have wanted Punto that much
im sure the two year deal is what did it. braves arent interested in giving a player like punto two years.
December 14th, 20115:12 pm
Frankly, Gonzo’s defense will be missed next year. The Braves are not a strikeout staff; the ball goes in play quite a bit. You’d be smart next year to sacrifice stick at the SS position in exchange for someone that can get to the ball or keep it in the infield. A young, no-hit guy with plus-plus range is needed if Pastornicky is not the guy that can play “playmaker” SS. Hell, Jack Wilson will make the play 199 times out of 200 if you hit it right to him!
Murph said he’d play short for a one years contract. might happen yet
December 14th, 20115:15 pm
JMan – I already said whatever. I really don’t care what your concerns are, how smart and resourceful, or analytical you thik you are or what you might think of me, my intelligence, reading comprehension – or quite honestly, what your opinion is of anything at all.
Rant on, Oh Self Important One – maybe someday you will achieve the relevance you alreadyfeel you’ve attained.
December 14th, 20115:16 pm
Jack’s range figures very good through 2010. didn’t play enough in ‘11 to get a read. no older in ‘12 that Gonzo was in ‘11.
nolie, I hope you are talking about DALE Murphy.
December 14th, 20115:17 pm
I’m open to the idea, but after my last meeting with Wren, I don’t have high hopes. My agent, the 3 year old, didn’t exactly see eye to eye with Frank. She doesn’t really have the tact to handle back and forth negotiations… there was a lot of foot stomping, throwing things, slamming doors, etc.
December 14th, 20115:23 pm
Jason Heyward reminds me so much of Terry Harper. Can a stat boy lemme know if their numbers are comparable ? I remember I hated seeing Terry Harper come to the plate…
December 14th, 20115:27 pm
By the way, Nolie, in 2010, Alex Gonzalez had a total of 700(!) fielding chances to Wilson’s paltry 287 (less than half!). There is NO comparison between the two – Alex has aged WAAAAAAY better than Wilson, & is the better fielding SS at this stage. Those “range figures” you cited don’t convince me.
December 14th, 20115:28 pm
Right handed Harper with his crappy OBP reminds you of left handed Heyward who has good plate discipline?
December 14th, 20115:29 pm
But… but…, DOB, I was being completely serious. Dude, I’ve been busy for a week sewing up a giant Punto Bean outfit to wear to the Ted.
Guess, I’ll have to send to my friend up in Boston now. She can wear it to Fenway and tell everyone she’s a Boston Baked Punto Bean, I guess.
This is so depressing.
December 14th, 20115:31 pm
Terry Harper hit .264 17 72 in 1985
Heyward hit .277 18 72 in 2010.
I’d have to say you are right.
I think he meant “in the looks department” (ahem!), nolie.
December 14th, 20115:32 pm
And Heyward was touted as a Hank Aaron by Bobby Cox & AJC.
December 14th, 20115:33 pm
I like how you act like im your not concerned about what I say but you KEEP replying to me which keeps proving that your a hypocrite.” Mr. I don’t get mad at anything” I have proved that I got under your skin and now you can quit that high almighty egomanical act you got going because yea you don’t get mad at a baseball team, no you get angry at some random blogger that has a different opinion than you. And that was my point everyone has small annoyances and pet peeves and mine is an ownership killing their team just to save a buck and your pet peeve a random guy posting some smack talk to you.
Dude – You’re angry? Seriously? Over a blog poster?
World hunger is a reason to get angry. Losing a loved one to a senseless accident is definitely a reason for anger. Inequality throughout all of humanity is a reason. So is what banking institutions did to the common people. But you get angry over what some guy types about you.
GAME SET MATCH
December 14th, 20115:34 pm
You can go sew you a big Terd suit now for Terdoslavich !
according to BillJames site you are wrong. and metrics are more about range than anything else
in 2010 which you just quoted Wilson was credired with 8 runs saved, Gonzalez with +12
in 2009 Wilson lwed baseball with +25, Gonzo had – (minus) 6
Conrad has been a nice story, but as a MLB player he is marginal. I appreciate his key pinch hits, and give him credit for hanging in the game, if he gets a MLB deal anywhere good luck to him.
Still cannot forget those errors vs the Giants in that series. Tough break for Moylan, but LM has to meet their prime objective of saving money. Maybe he comes back elsewhere, good luck to him.
Adam Jones would be nice but like the Aerosmith song–Dream ON.
December 14th, 20115:35 pm
I’d have to say you are right…Nerd
I sure hope you are joking
December 14th, 20115:36 pm
Nope. I Googled it.
December 14th, 20115:38 pm
looks huh. 6′4 200 vs 6′5 250? ok. closer than as hitters anyway
Practically speaking, any team that offers Jimmy Rollins more then 3 yrs is taking too much of a risk, he is showing signs of a slow down. Not what he used to be, still good wieh healthy but not the consistently dominant player he was.
Could see him getting 3 yrs at low 30’s mil. Who knows.
Dude, I’ve been busy for a week sewing up a giant Punto Bean outfit to wear to the Ted.
One of the funniest things I’ve read on the blog in a long time.
December 14th, 20115:39 pm
Great idea! Shouldn’t be too hard to modify by giant Punto Bean into a Terd. Thanks!
December 14th, 20115:40 pm
It appears the Braves are the only team out 30 that refuses to improve its ball club. Is Liberty Media really THAT cheap?? Is there not $1-$5M available to Wren or is his hands truly handcuffed by the worst ownership in all of the four major sports. It would seem that this team is destined to open 2012 with the almost the same exact team that embarrassed us all as Braves fans when they choked historically. This team was a power hitting LF and SS away from finishing 2nd next season (2nd!); now they are relegated to being a 4th place team, at best. In a time, when every other teams payroll is raising and passing us by, we seem to be in a holding pattern with a payroll fit for a team in the mid 90s. Oh well, there’s always 2018.
Chipper Kills Deers
Jimmy Rollins would be a great addition for 2 years for the Braves.
you are comparing the one year in his career that he played a full season to what Heyward has done and on top of that you are using only HR/RBI/BA, and expecting anybody to accept that?
December 14th, 20115:41 pm
Now you’ll get to wear a Turd to the Ted !
December 14th, 20115:42 pm
Let’s see, both played one full year so far.
December 14th, 20115:43 pm
December 14th, 20115:45 pm
you are comparing Heywards worst year with Harper’s best year and saying they are the same player?
IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH I GOT THE TRUTH…………YOU BOTH SUCK THATS THE TRUTH!!!!!
December 14th, 20115:47 pm
you got sumthang allright Donnie
Bobby Cox had alzheimers comparing Heyward to Hank Aaron.
nolie, I am not a high-falutin’ stats guy by any stretch of the imagination; I only know what I see. Not to get into an argument, but when Gonzo plays in 306 games and Wilson plays in only 166 over the same span – for two ball clubs – it means that two organizations did not feel that he was the AS SS he once, was by any stretch of the imagination. All things being equal, if I played once a week, I could make plays too – then spend the next six days in the tub.
Gonzo, for the past two seasons, did it almost every day, which makes him in my mind’s eye, the better SS by a country mile.
December 14th, 20115:49 pm
Well I only got 1 full year of Heyward’s to compare.
P-Town Brave© Its Clobberin' Time!™
I accept that….
THAT he’s an IDIOT
Nobody thinks that JJ, Prado and Pastornicky for Hardy, Jones and a Utility INF is a good idea? Everyone is too busy talking s*** to each other?
December 14th, 20115:50 pm
nolie, u call?
Wren get off your dern hands and make a deal!!!!!
December 14th, 20115:51 pm
Jbailz, yes its a great idea but the Orioles wont trade their starting SS and CF’r.
@ Sir Don. hahaha I’ll admit I’m a windbag but in case you dont know there is something called the 1st Admendment that allows me to be just that. And granted I think Lews a hypocrite I’m not gonna tell anyone to shut up and die like you just did and even though I disagree with his opinion I give him respect for expressing it and I don’t go to the lowest common denominator. That want too far bro you don’t tell people to fall off a cliff for expressing their opinions man.
December 14th, 20115:55 pm
“You can go sew you a big Terd suit now for Terdoslavich !
Great idea! Shouldn’t be too hard to modify by giant Punto Bean into a Terd. Thanks!”
LOL – from (Punto) bean to Terd, easy-peazy. Just let nature handle the transformation!
(THere, a poop joke for Najeh.)
December 14th, 20115:57 pm
Why in the blue hell would a team trade a guy they just signed to a contract extension w/ a no trade clause that they invested quite a bit in?!
ANSWER: THEY WOULDN’T!!
December 14th, 20115:58 pm
LOL, MiaBch. Good one!
In the words of Burt Bacharach. What the world needs now is Love. lol
December 14th, 20116:00 pm
I wonder if Terdoslavich got picked on in school because of his name?
December 14th, 20116:03 pm
I do not disagree with Nick except that there is worse ownership in sports in our own town–The Atlanta Spirit.
The Braves cannot even afford a Nick Punto type, why not just move the Gwinnett Braves to the Ted and charge AAA prices.
Its not like we have a real MLB caliber team compared to what the rest of the division (excluding the Mets) have. Fourth place is what should be expected.
Is Jim Bowden mentally retarded or just an ignorant idiot?
December 14th, 20116:04 pm
I can see the “Turds” section in right field right now at the Ted.
December 14th, 20116:05 pm
He would have here in Athens…
December 14th, 20116:06 pm
hahaha nerd. I’m just kidding around. everybody here knows that Heyward and Harper are the exact same hitter. Gotcha!!!
December 14th, 20116:12 pm
Turd’s Terds hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah……………………………………………………………………………………………..ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha………………………………………………………………………………………………………. **Crickets**………………………..
December 14th, 20116:17 pm
tWard = turdWard
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