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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,625 comments Add your comment
jfp
December 16th, 2011
4:56 pm
Anybody know how many games Prado missed the last 2 years? If he didn’t play 162, he is probably injury prone.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
4:56 pm
Yeah, I do go on about injured players. It seems to me to be a reasonable thing to be concerned about. I’m usually right about the injured playerrs getting injured again, too.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
4:57 pm
Didn’t Chipper actually campaign for J-Hey to hit in the #3 hole two years ago? Or did I just dream that? Seems to me there’s been more than one occasion that Chips has stated the he realizes he might not be a #3 hitter any longer.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
4:59 pm
“Lollygagger, how many World Series titles did Hank Aaron have? Was he a game changer?”
Hank Aaron was on three teams that had legitimate chances to win it all. They did so one of those three times, with Aaron playing a major role both in getting the team there and in securing the championship.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
4:59 pm
jfp-Yep, you’re right – Prado has missed some time the past couple of yerars and people are concerned about it – though not with chronic injuries such as bad knees.
However, we alrready have Martin under contract at a reasonable amount of salary and we don’t have to go out and sign him to a several year contract at around $10 mil orso a year – like we would with someone like Beltran.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:00 pm
nolie: Yes, his race. If he wasn’t white and homegrown, he would’ve been boo’ed out of town in a heartbeat. His attitude/effort was disgusting the last two years. He pulled up so many times on lazy fly balls to right and made no effort to catch them.
Disgusted
December 16th, 2011
5:00 pm
I would just assume give the shortstop to Pastornicky than a piece of proven MLB inconsistency and mediocrity like Hardy.
Hey, at this point, would just assume see a kid from the minors than Seth Smith. Could Ed Salcedo be ready any time soon.
Might as well go with kids being paid on the cheep, cause LM does not want to have a real MLB payroll that applies to the times. Sure we will lose 90 games but so what, that is the way it is.
KC Royals south.
jfp
December 16th, 2011
5:00 pm
Lollygagger, I believe Chipper is the best option for the 3 spot. Heyward should be a 3 hole hitter if he gets his average back over .300
keylargo
December 16th, 2011
5:02 pm
This definitely falls into the I couldn’t care less category but there are a few misguided souls out there that may appreciate this.
The NBA League Pass is available free for the next three weeks. Today through 1/8/12. You’re free to go torture yourself.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:02 pm
Someone convince me that JJ Hardy is a mediocre (or average) SS.
Disgusted
December 16th, 2011
5:03 pm
Hank Aaron was the best, and to fault him for the mostly mediocre teams he was on in the 60’s is silly.
The teams he had a real chance to win it all was in that run from 1956 thru 59. They should have had 4 pennants running, but that had nothing to do with Hammerin Hank.
The Braves of the 60’s were sort of like we have now. Save for 1969.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
5:03 pm
What’s an NBA?
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:03 pm
Thanks, keylargo. C-span has not helped me out in falling asleep on Sunday nights before the start of another work week so the NBA League Pass should help me PASS OUT.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:04 pm
yeah Chipper did that Lolly. and if Hey hits like he did as a rookie I bet Chipper will be willing to move elsewhere. He moved to clean up which he does not like for Shef and Drew too
Disgusted
December 16th, 2011
5:04 pm
I will pass on the NBA pass key largo, I prefer the NHL. Thrashers or no Thrashers.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
5:07 pm
“Seems to me there’s been more than one occasion that Chips has stated the he realizes he might not be a #3 hitter any longer.”
Here’s some occasions when Chipper thinks he shouldnt be the #3 hitter
1. When he is on the DL with a hangnail
2. If one of his distant cousins is having elective surgery that day
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:08 pm
average to above average was what I said, never mentioned mediocre and I told you where it came from.
you are more than welcome to believe what you want, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to convince anybody who believes the kinda stupid crap you spouted about Francouer.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:08 pm
Forget it Lolly, it’s Robert. waste of time
jfp
December 16th, 2011
5:09 pm
Lew, I agree with most of what you say about Prado. But for what he brings to the table, he is more suited for second base. We have a second baseman that puts left fielder numbers up and that gives us an opportunity to get that kind of production out of 2 positions. I say go for it. If we didn’t have Uggla, I would say keep Prado. But we need insurance just in case Heyward doesn’t bounce back to his rookie form.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
5:10 pm
you know nolie, Peter Gammons said that Heyward was gonna have a “monster” year. If Gammons says it, it happens, right?
DAP
December 16th, 2011
5:11 pm
lollygagger Wrestling with yourself DAP?
haha, maybe a little bit. heres the crux though…cody ross is not a starter. nor should francouer be, and neither should adam jones, on a braves team trying to win. cody ross out plays adam jones in most areas, actually, but these three guys are similar players, with cody ross being the best at CF among them.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:11 pm
most of the players who have been mentioned for LF are not really any better hitters than Prado was for three years, actually have lower OPS than he had.in many cases
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
5:11 pm
Well, at least he’s shifted from Bobby Cox today, eh nolie? Small miracles.
DAP
December 16th, 2011
5:12 pm
by the way lolly gagger, if his name wasnt jeff francouer, i wouldnt mind having a guy with a career .830 OPS vs leftys (.930 in 2011) as a part timer.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:13 pm
hey if Hey can bounce back to 260/360/430 or so I think that would be a great step for him and the Braves.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
5:13 pm
ha, it’s all good DAP. All just expressing opinions here. I do think Adam Jones will become a good player, but don’t know that he’d bring anything better than Prado to Braves.
DAP
December 16th, 2011
5:14 pm
lollygagger, ill add more, that i dont hate adam jones as a player if his role is understood. he certainly isnt worth trading prado and/or jurrjens for, is mostly my point.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:14 pm
he was on Bobby earlier, and of course still pays good money just for the ability to insult him on a public venue
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:16 pm
as I said last night I think Jones plays too shallow and starting out deeper would likely make him a better defensive CFer just like it did McCutchen this last season
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:16 pm
nolie: Worst RF play I’ve seen in a long, long time was that imbecile.
Couple that with the comments he was making public during his very deserved demotion…not sure why you don’t see the difference in treatment.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:17 pm
nolie: Everyone keeps mentioning Jones as a LF, not CF.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
5:19 pm
I’ve heard that platitude about Prado being a second baseman way too much. It just isn’t true.
First of all, Martin (as much as I really like him as a player) is not a stellar defensive second baseman. In addition, he’s played 199 games at 2nd, 166 at third, 103 in LF and another 52 at first. In other words, he pays all over the place – moe often than not at other positions than 2nd.
And as for him playing LF – He made only 3 errors in 180 chances and also had 6 assists – all of that with a staph infection hindering his movement. And if people are worried about is range (valid concern), he has Micheal Bourn next door in center who can more than compensate.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:21 pm
Prado’s importance to the Braves cannot be measured.
Just sayin’….
Jim
December 16th, 2011
5:28 pm
Response to comment yesterday: Medlen has more upside going forward than JJ. Adding a power-hitting OF and keeping Prado as a super-sub might be the best offensive result Braves could hope for in ‘12.
Jbailz
December 16th, 2011
5:33 pm
Jim – totally agree, I’d keep Medlen over JJ in a heartbeat. Who is out there that’s considered “power hitting” though? Besides Beltran because I think that’s a joke.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
5:38 pm
“hey if Hey can bounce back to 260/360/430 ”
Heyward needs to have his memory purged of anything that relates to Bobby Cox. He needs to forget anything and everything Cox ever said to him.
Do that, and just go back to doing what he had been doing before he ever met Donk, and he will be just fine
NickB
December 16th, 2011
5:39 pm
Tommy P “somebody convince me Hardy is mediocre ( or avg ) at SS…”
UZR likes him at 10.7 , but defensive runs saved (DRS) says he was 10th last year (still not bad at all) (however from 2005-2011 he ranks 5th overall)(UZR/150 ranks him first over the same time frame)
I would say he is one of the elite fielders at SS in the league and not mediocre nor avg.
old man
December 16th, 2011
5:41 pm
Add me to the people who have a feeling that Medlen moving forward is preferable to JJ moving forward. It’s not logical, but I feel that way pretty strongly.
Medlen, with certainly fewer natural tools, seemed to be really in control standing on the mound, at a really young age.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
5:42 pm
NickB: Thanks. And to add to your numbers….someone tell me where he ranks LAST YEAR?
This isn’t about someone inflating numbers using PED’s, either. This is defense.
His numbers last year were incredibly good. (and that’s not counting offense)
old man
December 16th, 2011
5:45 pm
I think the O’s would covet Prado at 2B.
old man
December 16th, 2011
5:50 pm
I love Prado. But I hear comments about him not being that great of an infielder, and the consensus of opinion yesterday seemed to be that Adam Jones would be a noticeable (or significant) upgrade in LF defensively. And now I hear that a guy who hit 30 HRs last year is a dang good SS.
JJ, Prado, and a prospect for those two guys. Our payroll would go up by a couple of million.
What am I missing here? Apart from they fact the O’s might not do it?
old man
December 16th, 2011
5:51 pm
Did everybody go to dinner?
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
5:55 pm
Lew – You manage to misinterpret or misrepresent things in so many ways it’s unreal _ Robert
Hilarious …….. Robert seems utterly lacking self-awareness. I wonder how it is Robert can post comments from planet batsh*t crazy.
Jbailz
December 16th, 2011
5:56 pm
old man – you missed the fact that some people on this blog think we can get talent by not getting rid of anything. I personally really like Prado too but we are doing him and the team a disservice by playing him in LF. Although he’s serviceable there that’s not his position, he is a 2B or a super utility bench player. I think Prado and JJ for Hardy and Jones is a great trade for both teams. If we could somehow get Hardy and Jones for JJ and a top prospect and keep Prado as a super utility then that’s a HUGE score for us. IMO
nolie
December 16th, 2011
5:59 pm
runs saved
YEAR # Rank
2009 3 16th
2010 5 9th
2011 5 11th
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
6:02 pm
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Baseball-deals-Prince-Fielder-Yu-Darvish-Chicago-Cubs-Chicago-White-Sox-Houston-Astros-121611
You want the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters to announce which team submitted the highest bid for Yu Darvish.
You want someone — maybe the Cubs — to sign Prince Fielder.
You want action.
My advice: Be patient. The Hot Stove will sizzle in short order.
“Everyone tells me they have trades in the works,” one player agent said Thursday. “There are tons of moving parts.”
The desire to complete one’s holiday shopping by Dec. 24 is not unique to mall-goers. Thirty general managers feel the same way. And they are browsing in aisles we can’t see.
Undeniably, this has been one of the busiest weeks on the baseball calendar. It’s just that the business is taking place in a less public setting than, say, the Hilton Anatole in Dallas.
Fielder and Darvish are the lone remaining players who could command nine-figure commitments from their new teams. Once they sign — if they sign, in the case of Darvish — a cascade of moves will follow, particularly on the trade market.
So here’s a rundown of the five most intriguing sellers, along with my recommendation of the best trade partners for them.
I feel the same way. GM’s don’t want to be making their big moves in January – six weeks or less before pitchers and catchers report. Some things could spill over, but I’d bet the moves are either made before 12/25 or they aren’t….
Robert
December 16th, 2011
6:02 pm
Bat – I posted that at 65-80% of Chipper’s salary, Carlos Beltran would be a better value for the dollar than Chipper is.
Lew replied as if I had said that Beltran would be a good deal and as if I had said that we should sign Beltran.
I did neither
If to you that constitutesd bat__it crazy, then whatever
Robert
December 16th, 2011
6:05 pm
“Or why didn’t they just keep Brooks Conrad to play short”
If Cox were still managing, Conrad would probably be your opening day shortstop in 2012
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
6:06 pm
Jim – totally agree, I’d keep Medlen over JJ in a heartbeat.
Not sure about that. However, if Jurrjens goes in a trade, I’d like Medlen to win the 5th starters job and for Teheran and Delgado to work on some things in Gwinnett. Just my two cents on that. Meds could always go to the pen midseason to limit the innings coming off of TJ. Then either Teheran or Delgado takes that spot. Wren did mention Medlen as an option for the rotation. And the Braves do have a lot of potential pen arms apart from Kimbrel/Venters/EOF/Vizcaino – Varvaro, Hoover, Bullock, Chapman, Gearrin, etc. Not that they have as big an upside in short stints as Medlen could be, but ya never know.
BraveFaninBC
December 16th, 2011
6:06 pm
I think Robert = batsh*t crazy to almost everybody here Bat
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
6:09 pm
I wish Fielder and his fat ti** would sign somewhere ASAP. Hurry it fat boy, like you’re appetite depends on it.
old man
December 16th, 2011
6:11 pm
nolie:
I assume those are stats for Hardy. Are those AL or MLB? And how did Gonzo compare for us over that time frame (TOR and ATL)?
I know I’m a lazy SOB for not looking myself, but my metrics nosebleed level is WAR. I’ve got a job and 3 teenagers that sap all the time and brainpower.
old man
December 16th, 2011
6:12 pm
Very interesting to see all of this Medlen love, versus JJ. Very spontaneous, and telling.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
6:13 pm
The A’s would love to get a future third baseman in a deal for Gonzalez, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Rangers prospect Mike Olt is one possibility.
Wish the Braves felt the same way. I don’t have as much confidence in Joey Terdoslavich, Edward Salcedo and Brandon Drury. I suppose Prado will be there in 2013 and that’s the reason there is more of a need for CF, however they should really just focus on getting the best possib;e players back regardless of position.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
6:13 pm
Let me go all Andy Rooney (may he rest in peace) here.
Have you ever noticed how altogether too many posters here will focus on a non-Braves’ player and either assume that all his warts will disappear if he puts on the tomahawk (or worse, ignore those warts altogether) and then go on to have a HOF career in ATL, if only the Braves will spend insane amounts of money on the player or go overboard on trade pieces?
But will take an absolutely 180 attitude towards a current Braves’ player who has a single off-year? That bum might as well learn to wash high-rise windows, ’cause his baseball career is surely over and the team should package that guy for one of the aforementioned wart-ridden man-crushes before rival GMs wake up from their winter-meetings drunk.
And people wonder why I LOL so much on here. Geez louise.
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
6:14 pm
I always claimed that Cox cost his team an easy dozen games a season. Looks like the real answer might be more like 15-20
Anyway, you cant dispute the stats. His teams fared better when he wasnt around _ Robert
Lew – You manage to misinterpret or misrepresent things in so many ways it’s unreal _ Robert
That was a snippet from your earlier Cox rant, talk about misinterpreting or misrepresenting………
Like I said, Herr Batsh*t Crazy,completely lacking in self-awareness
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
6:15 pm
old man, I like Jurrjens over Medlen for 2012. Just that Medlen does have 2 extra years of service time left before free agency. For me, I just worry about having Teheran or Delgado in the rotation. I’m a babier.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
6:16 pm
The Mets told the A’s they won’t include Jonathon Niese, Ike Davis, Matt Harvey, Jenrry Mejia or Jeurys Familia in a deal for Gio Gonzalez, tweets Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com.
That’s hilarious. So the Mets want to trade David Murphy and Lucas Duda for Gio Gonzalez? Amusing.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
6:19 pm
That bum might as well learn to wash high-rise windows, ’cause his baseball career is surely over and the team should package that guy for one of the aforementioned wart-ridden man-crushes before rival GMs wake up from their winter-meetings drunk.
Best post I’ve read in a while. Thanks scoots.
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
6:20 pm
I think Robert = batsh*t crazy to almost everybody here Bat _ BraveFaninBC
Yeah, I think you are right there. That comment to Lew just so represents what a nut Robert is I could not resist.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
6:21 pm
Very interesting to see all of this Medlen love, versus JJ. Very spontaneous, and telling.
More telling about the posters than the players, brother.
BraveFaninBC
December 16th, 2011
6:24 pm
Gonzo had arguably his two best defensive years with us old man.
in 2010 he saved 12 runs and was ranked 4th
in 2011 he saved 17 runs and was ranked 1st. those are MLB rankings not NL.
the two years previous to that he missed some time and played hurt so his numbers were real poor in 2009 and 3 runs saved in 2008.
I have nothing against Hardy. my initial response was directed toward Tommy P saying that Hardy anfdJones would be huge defensive upgrades which I thought to be an overstatement.
Like I said b4 the only thing about Hardy is his 21mil over the next three years. He is likely worth that but I have a hard time imagining the Braves paying it. He would definitely be better than anybody else who has been mentioned so far this winter, but is much costlier too.
and that is enuff about that stuff from me
Tomahawkin
December 16th, 2011
6:25 pm
“Very interesting to see all of this Medlen love, versus JJ. Very spontaneous, and telling.”
Little Big Man MED’s was a Pivotal part in us making the Playoffs in 2010. Braves were 13-3 in his starts in 2010…
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:30 pm
damn it my nephew used the laptop in the rec room and I forgot to check it.
That was me @ 6:24 old man, not BFinBC who is visiting for the holidays.
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
6:30 pm
the team should package that guy for one of the aforementioned wart-ridden man-crushes before rival GMs wake up from their winter-meetings drunk. _ scoots
Remember when so many people here were head over heels for Alex, because he hit a bunch of homeruns in Toronto and got some kind of weird standing O upon arrival in Atlanta?
So do I. I’m so looking forward to Adam Jones not hitting homeruns and not getting on base in Atlanta, too.
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
6:32 pm
Does Adam Jones pout, by chance?
Sling his bat when he strikes out, maybe?
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:34 pm
right Bat, a lot of average type hitters have come to Atlanta and had trouble. That has often struck me kinda funny since though we are usually something of a pitcher’s park, its not really an extreme one.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:36 pm
Does Adam Jones pout,…Bat
he better not since Santa will be coming to town soon
ColoradoBravesFan
December 16th, 2011
6:37 pm
Would the Braves trade JJ for Hardy and cash to offset his 3 yr/$21M contract? Would the O’s make the trade….?
Hardy and cash to the Braves, JJ to the O’s. This would be improve our offense at SS, provide soild D at SS and provide cash to sign a C. Ross type as 4th OFer.
I really do not believe Adam Jones should be a Brave. Prado will OPS better than Jones and is “good enough” on defense in LF. Adam Jones doesn’t hit enough for LF and is below avg defense in CF.
MIBravesFan
December 16th, 2011
6:42 pm
From DOB’s tweets – Enjoy the weekend, folks. Could start it listening to Tom Waits read this short Charles Bukowski poem: http://t.co/KAzbc2pu
That’s an excellent way to start the weekend (and to end a week).
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
6:42 pm
Unless Braves are set on getting bat via trade, they could at least get Cody Ross. I hear he wants to play for them more than other teams that have expressed interest. I just don’t know if Wren is still trying to get a bigger bat than Ross.
ColoradoBravesFan
December 16th, 2011
6:42 pm
Why did the O’s sign Hardy to a 3yr contract? I don’t think the O’s will compete for the wild card in the next 2-3 yrs. The O’s best use of Hardy is to trade him for AA/AAA pitching talent.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:44 pm
who knows CBF, can only guess by what the Braves have been saying and that is they are not looking to spend much money with Pastornicky and Simmons in the minors
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
6:45 pm
nolie_
Santa will see me pouting if the Braves trade for Adam Jones. Maybe I’m wrong but I have no faith in him. Like you say guys come here and struggle. People tout his home runs, but I see a guy that for fully half his games last year was no better at reaching base than Alex Gonzalez. Plate discipline travels, home runs may not.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:47 pm
I’ll believe a bigger bat than Ross when I see it.
They passed on Willingham at 7mil. and most thers whom I have seen mentioned are not all that special hitters by their OPS unless it would be platoon time with diaz
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
6:48 pm
MIBravesFan: Thanks for linking that Waits reading Bukowski that I had tweeted. Great stuff, ain’t it? No one is better suited to reading Bukowski.
“The Laughing Heart.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1t6a0zCkQ
And here’s one more, Waits reading Bukowski’s “Nirvana.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKSJEv5wRF8&feature=related
ColoradoBravesFan
December 16th, 2011
6:49 pm
yeah nolie I guess the question would be … are the Braves better in 2012 and beyond with JJ, Pastornicky and Prado… or with Hardy, Prado and Cody Ross.
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
6:54 pm
Back to The Dark Tower volume 4.
Peace, y’all & ward
MIBravesFan
December 16th, 2011
6:55 pm
It is great stuff.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:55 pm
Vol 4 already, huh? Looks like you are digging it Bat
old man
December 16th, 2011
6:55 pm
What is going to happen on this board if FW schedules a press conference, and solid rumors start surfacing? It’s going to be a freakin’ 24 hour madhouse. Complete freakin’ bedlam.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
December 16th, 2011
6:58 pm
After watching the September collapse and ensuing post season of purgatory I’m left to ask……
WTF is Fran Wren’s mental defect?
Even an idiot like myself can figure out what to do next. Which is move Uggla to LF, trade for a couple of young, talented, defensive minded middle infielders and build around PITCHING, DEFENSE, POWER and SPEED. It’s baseball 101, not rocket science.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
6:59 pm
if its a really unpopular move the board will go crazy for sure. The posts when they traded Flowers and Lillibridge for Javi went on and on and on in an extreme vein.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
7:01 pm
Rockies overpay for Cuddyer
By Keith Law
I see both Michael Cuddyer and Josh Willingham as part-time players because of questions about their bats and their inability to play defense anywhere where their bats would profile. And of the contracts they each signed over the last couple of days, Willingham’s three-year, $21 million deal with the Minnesota Twins makes a lot more sense to me than Cuddyer’s three-year, $31.5 million deal with the Colorado Rockies.
For the Rockies, signing Cuddyer seems almost counterproductive. The damage caused by a play not made on a batted ball in Coors Field is too high to mess around with a brutal defender like Cuddyer in the outfield, and if you look at the years when Colorado has succeeded over the past decade, it’s been in large part because of strong defenses. Cuddyer is below average — to be kind — at all four corner positions, and his bat isn’t good enough to carry his glove at any of them. He’s a dead-pull power guy, which should play well in Coors, but he started to show signs of decline in 2011, such as trouble against good fastballs, a possible harbinger of a loss of bat speed.
Hitters who struggle with better breaking stuff might fare well with a transition to Denver, but playing at altitude doesn’t exonerate you from facing velocity. The Rockies are paying Cuddyer more than $10 million per year to replace Seth Smith, who hits from the other side and is a productive fourth outfielder. The Rockies are basically paying an extra $7 to $8 million per year for maybe an extra win of total production. A team with a right-handed corner outfielder could put together a pretty nice two-headed monster in left by adding Smith for a platoon.
For the Twins, the gamble on Willingham is pretty substantial, given all the possible warning signs in his 2011 season. However, I prefer their end of this circle — getting Willingham and the chance for an OBP boost plus the compensation picks for Cuddyer — to the Rockies’ end.
My biggest concern on Willingham is the possibility the Twins want him to stumble around their outfield; not only can he not play an outfield corner, he’s injury-prone to begin with and more likely to get hurt the more you ask him to do something he can’t. If the DH spot is open in Minnesota, that’s his ideal position, but the Twins might move Justin Morneau there, and Willingham has only played three games at first base in his career. The potential upside for Minnesota is that before 2011, Willingham had a .367 OBP over five full seasons in the National League. That’s higher than any Twins player posted in 2011, with only Joe Mauer and Morneau likely to top it among players still on the roster. It’s a wildly expensive play for some OBP, but the Twins at least had the glaring need for it.
Apologies for the long post.
Steve from OH
December 16th, 2011
7:02 pm
if its a really unpopular move the board will go crazy for sure.
The board will go crazy either way. And Coach will tell us all how Wren is dumb and only he can construct a winning baseball club.
It’s just how this place works.
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
7:03 pm
ColoradoBravesFan: Why in the world would O’s trade Hardy, reasonably priced at $7 mill per for the next three years and coming off a 30-homer season — tied with Tulo for most by a shortstop; Asdrubal Cabrera was only other SS with more than 21 — to the Braves for JJ coming off a knee injury and with only two seasons left before free agency, and ALSO throw in cash to offset his salary?
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
7:03 pm
Fielding %…..RF/9…..RF/g
A) .990……..4.88…….4.76
B) .981……..4.21…….4.17
Hardy is Player A and Alex Gonzalez is Player B.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
7:03 pm
A team with a right-handed corner outfielder could put together a pretty nice two-headed monster in left by adding Smith for a platoon.
Meant to bold that part too. Didn’t work.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
7:06 pm
to the Braves for JJ coming off a knee injury and with only two seasons left before free agency, and ALSO throw in cash to offset his salary?
You don’t think too much of Jair’s value, do you DOB? Not to say that you aren’t right there, because you make a great point.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
7:06 pm
Hardy’s in Baltimore.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
7:07 pm
believe what you want dude. you certainly have my permission. Bill James don’t know sh*t anyway
nolie
December 16th, 2011
7:07 pm
he made the same point that I have all along…………
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
7:08 pm
Bill James knows tons.
But you compared 3 years stats while I compared LAST YEAR. Hardy took major steps LAST YEAR on defense.
How can you not see that?????
Steve from OH
December 16th, 2011
7:11 pm
You don’t think too much of Jair’s value, do you DOB? Not to say that you aren’t right there, because you make a great point.
It is a good point, but Jair’s value is all screwed up anyway. He’s a player that you’d never trade away for what his real market value should be.
And if I’m an opposing GM, I wouldn’t give what the Braves are asking, plain and simple. Unless someone does something really dumb, he’s worth more to us than he is in a trade.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
7:16 pm
Steve, if I was really looking to upgrade my rotation, I wouldn’t trade for Jair. I’d go after a different starter out there. But looking at it from the Braves point of view, I wouldn’t trade him unless I was getting valuable pieces – not just fodder.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
7:17 pm
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Favorites heading into the weekend based on industry consensus: Beltran -STL; Darvish -Tor; Gio – TX; Fielder – CHC; Saunders -Det;
nolie
December 16th, 2011
7:17 pm
last year Hardy had 5 runs saved, Gonzo had 17 runs saved. Hardy ranked 11th, Gonzo ranked 1st. You are arguing with the wrong person Tommy. I’m not the one who came up with those rankings.
Metrics are not perfect, and I’m sure here is less distance between them than that makes it look , so believe the one that you want to, and I’ll do the same.
certainly when you add hitting Hardy is better, though I think his power numbers would go down some in Atlanta.
If they actually spend the money and get him you will hear no complaints from me. I will be very satisfied
Steve from OH
December 16th, 2011
7:17 pm
Exactly. He’s not an easy piece to move. Which is why a lot of the people complaining that Wren hasn’t done anything yet aren’t quite with it.
nolie
December 16th, 2011
7:19 pm
no pouting y’all, Santa is coming soon…..
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
7:19 pm
I’d be after Danks if I were a GM. They have no system and he’s a great option for one season. Price is too high right now, but it has to come down and my 5th or 6th best prospect might and probably would be, his best – similar to how Nestor Molina now looks there. #1 guy and he was the Jays 6th best pitching prospect.