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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,625 comments Add your comment
Lew
December 16th, 2011
12:32 pm
TommyP – And with Beltran, it’s not 1-2 weeks stretches on the DL – it’s half seasons or more.
I wouldn’t give either one of them a three year contract right now.
Mountain Braves Fan
December 16th, 2011
12:33 pm
Beltran has chronically bad knees which are not going to magically regenerate. He basically missed all of spring training last year because of his knees and had to move from CF to RF because of them.
Let’s say you win the lottery, and after taxes you take home $30 million. Would you be willing to go to Las Vegas and bet all of that money on a prop bet that Beltran will average 140 games per season over the next three years? That is essentially the gamble that some on here are asking the Braves to make.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
12:35 pm
Lew – You manage to misinterpret or misrepresent things in so many ways it’s unreal
I didnt say that Beltran at $59 for three years would be a better value than Chipper. I also didnt say we should sign Beltran
I DID say, and will say again, that Beltran at two thirds to four fifths of Chipper’s salary is a better value than Chipper.
That doesnt mean it would be really good value
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
12:36 pm
It’s not just the DL stints for Chipper…it’s the 1-2 weeks stretch(es) that he just pinch-hits that hurts this team. If he was a 6-hole hitter, it would be a different story.
If last year’s slumpers hit to their offensive norms, Chipper’s absence (or McCann’s on his days off, or anybody else’s) won’t be critical. The team will have excellent length in their lineup, regardless of batting order. If you think that Heyward and Prado, especially, will rebound, then you aren’t worried that this team will score runs. If you think otherwise, you’re probably clamoring for the “do something, do anything” stuff.
DAP
December 16th, 2011
12:37 pm
lemke’s knuckler I’d do Jurrjens for Smith and Wheeler. I don’t see how that’s any different than the Vazquez for Cabrera and Vizcaino a few years ago.
let me tell you how. jurrjens will be uder control for two years, just one year for vazquez. jurrejns will be cheaper both years than vazquez’s $11mil salary. wheeler is not a prospect on the level of vizcaino, and the braves also got a good lefty reliever, mike dunn in the deal. a 25 year old jurrjens with two years of arbitration left has alot more value than vazquez was at that stagein his career.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
12:37 pm
I’m just making a point that most of y;’all are upset that Chipper misses so many games (thereby, If all are to be believed, really hurts the Braves), yet are willing to sign a player who has missed more than half as many games MORE than Chipper has missed – for more than XHiper will make (which many feel will hamstring the team).
And as for Beltran playing 142 games last year? Well, in 09 CHipper played in 143. How has it gone since then? Those games Beltran played last year are menaingless going forward.
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
12:39 pm
“Actually, Beltran never sat out an entire season.”
Didn’t say he did. He say out an entire season worth of games and ended up coming back after those 2 years of injuries and putting up monster numbers in 2011:
142 games played averaging .300/.385/.525/.910
For $10 million a year…I’ll take the possibility of those numbers. And it seems like there would be less wear and tear with Prado subbing for him, and with Beltran not playing CF or even RF for that matter.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
12:39 pm
“I’m just making a point that most of y;’all are upset that Chipper misses so many games (thereby, If all are to be believed, really hurts the Braves”
Chipper hurts the Braves much more when he opens his mouth than when he misses a few games
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
12:41 pm
Why not ask the Rockies for Blackmon instead of Wheeler. Hes 25 and has hit at every level. Climbed his way up the minor league scale. Although it looks like he never plays a full season. Injury prone?
2008 (A-): .338 .390 .466 .855
2009 (A+): .307 .370 .433 .803
2010 (AA): .297 .360 .484 .843
2011 (AAA): .337 .393 .572 .965
Hillbilly
December 16th, 2011
12:44 pm
If last year’s slumpers hit to their offensive norms, Chipper’s absence (or McCann’s on his days off, or anybody else’s) won’t be critical.
Yeah, if Dan Uggla doesn’t hit like Dan Rather for 3 months, the difference is made up.
Jbailz
December 16th, 2011
12:44 pm
Murph – Like a Jurrjens and Minor for Tulo trade?!?!
Hey a guy can dream can’t he?
RC
December 16th, 2011
12:46 pm
P’cola Brave,
While Blackmon is more polished than Wheeler, I think his upside is significantly lower. He’s most likely a 4th OF type.
Murph
December 16th, 2011
12:47 pm
Let’s say you win the lottery, and after taxes you take home $30 million. Would you be willing to go to Las Vegas and bet all of that money on a prop bet that Beltran will average 140 games per season over the next three years?
If I had $90mil in the bank then the prospect of taking a $10mil gamble which doesn’t pay off isn’t quite as scary… still scary of course, but not as scary.
Getting Beltran isn’t an all-in situation.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
12:47 pm
Wheeler has too many questions about him being able to stay in CF and being able to hit LHP.
Here’s Baseball America’s scouting report:
5.Tim Wheeler, OF
Born: Jan 21, 1988
B-T: L-R
Ht.: 6-4 Wt.: 205
Drafted: Sacramento State, 2009 (1st round). Signed by: Gary Wilson.
Background: The final pick of 2009’s first round, Wheeler signed for a below-slot $900,000 and didn’t do much in his first two pro seasons. He surprised the Rockies by finishing second in the minors with 33 homers in 2011, the most by a Tulsa player since Irving Burns hit 36 in 1929. Wheeler hit his 29th homer on July 25 but pressed so much to get to 30 that he didn’t reach the milestone until Aug. 24.
Scouting Report: Wheeler has very flexible, quick hips and generated more power by doing a better job of getting his hands out front to turn on pitches. He can get pull-happy, which was the case between his monthlong homer drought. He tends to drop his head at the plate, resulting in him missing hittable pitches and struggling against lefthanders. He may strike out too much to hit for a high average. Wheeler has solid speed and has played center field in the minors, but he profiles as a corner outfielder in the majors. He has enough arm for right field and should have average range once he refines his reads and routes. He has terrific makeup and runs out ever ball.
The Future: Wheeler will begin 2012 in Triple-A and could reach the majors later in the year. Some scouts see him as a 20-20 player, while others wonder if he’ll be a platoon player because he hasn’t hit lefties.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
12:49 pm
I’m not clamoring to sign Beltran. I’m simply chiming in that Chipper’s games played are misleading.
When the heart of your lineup includes Chipper and a catcher (that NEEDS time off due to the physical grind of the position), your lineup is flawed.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
12:53 pm
I think Kyle Parker is interesting in the Rockies organization. Decent average, OBP and pop but K’d a lot in first season. Has a real good arm as do most who are former QB. Be interesting to see how he pans out.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
12:58 pm
When the heart of your lineup includes Chipper and a catcher (that NEEDS time off due to the physical grind of the position), your lineup is flawed.
When those two are surrounded by four other quality hitters in Prado, Uggla, Heyward, and Freeman? I don’t think I can agree with you on “flawed”.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
1:00 pm
think Kyle Parker is interesting in the Rockies organization.
I had a chance to see him play a few college games, and he was a man among boys, in that arena. Kid has a little game.
CB
December 16th, 2011
1:02 pm
RC
December 16th, 2011
1:05 pm
I’ll give you that the Braves lineup is “flawed”, as long as you give me that there isn’t a lineup in major league baseball that isn’t flawed in some way. Of course there are always places you can get better…but that’s true of anyone.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
1:06 pm
“When those two are surrounded by four other quality hitters in Prado, Uggla, Heyward, and Freeman”
And when two or three of those four dont deliver quality performances (such as last year) then things dont look so great
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
1:06 pm
Mikeyc588: As I’ve said repeatedly, I’d NEVER — and neither will the Braves — trade Jurrjens straight up for Seth Smith. But if the Braves could get a good young center field prospect like Tim Wheeler, plus possibly another prospect, I’d have to consider it strongly. Wheeler had 33 homers and a .900 OPS in Double-A last season. I’d rather have speedy Dexter Fowler if the Braves don’t think they can sign Bourn, but Rockies have indicated (so far) they’re not trading Fowler.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
1:07 pm
ncscoots: You missed my point completely.
It’s the games missed that kills that kind of lineup. Chipper misses bunches, pinch hits for several only and plays hobbled for several others. That means you have a backup in for all of those games meaning one of the team’s middle of the lineup spots is taken by a journeyman.
Same with McCann. He has to get time off due to being a catcher. Again, a middle of the lineup bat that is absent. In the summer months (last third of the season), your big-hitting catcher is just flat worn out.
That’s what I mean by flawed. Not the games they’re healthy…the games where they aren’t in there.
RC
December 16th, 2011
1:10 pm
Great article just went up on Fangraphs about whether the Braves youth is actually a bad thing.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/will-the-atlanta-braves-youth-movement-doom-their-2012-season/
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
1:11 pm
But if the Braves could get a good young center field prospect……
I really hope they are talking to Boston, Texas, New York, etc…. Any other teams that have a better farm system than Colorado.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
1:18 pm
RC, thanks for posting. Not just three 22 year olds in the opening day lineup. A 23 year old closer, and potentially 4 starters(Hanson, Beachy, Minor and Teheran/Delgado) under the age of 25.
Other than the Royals, is there a team in the sport with more talent under the age of 25 than the Atlanta Braves? Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Beachy, Teheran, Vizcaino, Kimbrel, Minor, Delgado, Pastornicky, Simmons, Salcedo, Gilmartin, Bethancourt?
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
1:20 pm
We’ve had our hearts ripped out the last two season down the stretch because of key injuries. Signing Beltran is a very good way to continue this awful trend. Some of y’all aren’t thinking clearly right now, imo.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
1:22 pm
I bet you that Wren has discussed a deal involving Jurrjens/Prado for Hardy/Adam Jones/etc. in recent days.
This team wants to get more athletic while filling the SS/LF spots with the LF having potential to move to CF. That’s Jones.
Having Jones in LF and Hardy at SS GREATLY improves the Braves defense. The Braves would either have to offer Hardy an extension or they would need to feel pretty confident that Pastornicky is ready in 1 year. I would bet they’d try to do a 2 or 3 year deal for Hardy due to his power and great defense.
Murph
December 16th, 2011
1:25 pm
If they trade for Jones/Hardy, who plays 3B for the 40+ games that Chipper is out?
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
1:26 pm
DAP… “let me tell you how. jurrjens will be uder control for two years, just one year for vazquez. jurrejns will be cheaper both years than vazquez’s $11mil salary. wheeler is not a prospect on the level of vizcaino, and the braves also got a good lefty reliever, mike dunn in the deal. a 25 year old jurrjens with two years of arbitration left has alot more value than vazquez was at that stagein his career.”
I partially agree. But Vazquez came off a season that he finished 4th in Cy Young voting. And he was healthy, which can’t be said for Jurrjens. Dunn was included, but we also sent Boone Logan over which cancels out those guys. Vizcaino was a better prospect than Wheeler is now, but we’re talking about needs right now, and the Braves need position prospects. I don’t think any team is going to surrender their top prospect for Jurrjens. So if the only options for return are the next tier down, then I think Wheeler is a pretty good piece that serves a potential future need. There are plenty of very good major league players that have had worse scouting reports than Wheelers at this point in their career.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
1:29 pm
I don’t think any team is going to surrender their top prospect for Jurrjens.
Then you target teams with better overall systems so that you don’t have to take a middling prospect from a mediocre farm system because they won’t give you their #1/#2 prospect.
Hopefully, the opposing GM isn’t as prospect crazy as Wren is and is willing to give up one of his prized prospects.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
1:29 pm
The only way the Braves get a big return for Jurrjens is after the Gio, Darvish, Shields, etc pieces have all fallen into place and some team gets an itchy trigger finger.
My point, if you want a good return for Jair, then BE PATIENT !!!!!
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
1:32 pm
Murph: Not sure. Betemit is out there but his defense is nothing to write home about. But he can swing the bat.
That’s the dilemma with carrying Chipper, though. However, landing a Hardy at SS makes you a MUCH better team.
Up the middle….McCann, Hardy, Uggla, Bourn. Yeah, I’ll take that.
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
1:32 pm
I mean if we’re going to argue here, at least wait until AFTER we see who Wren gets. Some of y’all are worse than a sewing circle.
Bay Area Steve
December 16th, 2011
1:33 pm
What’s up with the gratuitous Dan Rather reference?
You know not which you speak. Dan Rather can frickin’ rake. Switch-hitter. Really quick hands. Stays inside the ball, especially from the left side. More power from the right. Projected 50 doubles guy in the bigs, easy. C’mon, man…
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
1:36 pm
TnBrian: Do you have first-hand knowledge of a sewing circle? Why can I believe that?
So we wait ’til AFTER Wren gets something done to talk about this? You’re suggesting death of DOB’s blog then?
Most of the entertainment of the baseball offseason is discussing the realistic “what-ifs”!!!!!!!
Make me a Braves quilt.
Bay Area Steve
December 16th, 2011
1:39 pm
Tater,
Well done, man. A lot of creativity in that head of yours…
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
1:40 pm
You missed my point completely.
I think we’re even.
Bay Area Steve
December 16th, 2011
1:41 pm
“Make me a Braves quilt.”
I woulda went fleece hat (it’s like 47 here), but well played, sir.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
1:43 pm
Steve: Thanks.
ncscoots: We agree to disagree.
I’ll promise you one thing, though. Unless MAJOR upgrades are made to the Braves lineup, they never will win a Series or SEE a Series with McCann and Chipper both in the 3-5 spots in the lineup. NEVER.
Mikeyc588
December 16th, 2011
1:44 pm
DOB –
Thanks for the reply, and I’d agree. Assuming I didn’t think I could re-sign Bourn, I’d strongly consider Smith, Wheeler and (probably) a third prospect for Jurrjens. I don’t really get the hype about Fowler, though. He has 15 career HRs, has never played more than 135 games and has a career SB% of 66%. Hits a lot of triples, but I guess I’m just missing something.
Thanks for the blog, as always.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
1:44 pm
Some of y’all are worse than a sewing circle.
Party pooper. I thought this was a place where we come to talk Braves moves, hypothetical or not. Silly me.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
1:45 pm
“We’ve had our hearts ripped out the last two season down the stretch because of key injuries”
No. In 2010 it was because an idiot manager thought Brooks Conrad was a good choice to be a late inning defensive replacement
In 2011, it was at least partially because the idiot manager in 2010 took a naturally gifted youngster and screwed him up in the head
Bay Area Steve
December 16th, 2011
1:46 pm
“they never will win a Series or SEE a Series with McCann and Chipper both in the 3-5 spots in the lineup. NEVER.”
Man, that’s the biggest limb I’ve ever seen. Braves odds are probably 30-1 to even reach the series, and Chipper’s got one, perhaps two more years. Let’s not act like you’re predicting an earthquake right here… I mean, you went caps, man.
rammerjammer
December 16th, 2011
1:47 pm
JJ and Pastor for Hardy makes some sense.
From what I read, Simmons’ tools are superior to Pastor but he’s 2-3 years away. Hardy – signed through 2014 – bridges that, without the risk of a rookie SS. And Hardy also has the pop that Pastor lacks.
I’m starting to think Frank & Co. are hyping Pastor to convince others he’s ready right now. I mean, the Braves DO have a pretty good track record (e.g., Heyward, Freeman, Kimbrel) in that area.
Mikeyc588
December 16th, 2011
1:47 pm
Also, what is the general take here on Blackmon v. Wheeler?
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
1:52 pm
JJ and Pastor for Hardy makes some sense.
Yeah, Hardy….and Manny Machado.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
1:55 pm
Unless MAJOR upgrades are made to the Braves lineup,
I mean, just for chuckles, how major and at what position? Seems to me that the lineup (at least today) is pretty well set, most places.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
1:58 pm
Bay Area: We should be assuming that the Braves are playoff contenders whether we make trades or not. It’s not like we’re not close right now.
I’ve been saying that, though, about Chipper/McCann in the 3-5 spots for several years now. (but to my brother..and brother, I know you’re not my brother)
Anyway, you know where I stand relying on those two in the current lineup.
And a fleece is what is helping me out today through a chilly, rainy Knoxville afternoon.
(regarding earlier comment)
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
1:59 pm
From what I read, Simmons’ tools are superior to Pastor but he’s 2-3 years away.
He’s not yet at the point where one could afford to not hedge the bet against him making it to the bigs. Need to see how his bat is going to play at AA before you could just ship out The Rev.
Not that I think The Rev is gonna make anyone forget Cal Ripken, but you don’t toss a guy who’s close, for the potential of a high A guy. That’s hanging all ten toes off the ledge.
rammerjammer
December 16th, 2011
2:01 pm
OK, we can agree the Orioles are a senseless organization, but surely not so senseless as to deal one of their few prospects. Don’t think so.
Makes no sense for them to commit $21 million to a shortstop. JJ keeps them competitive in games he pitches and Pastor is THEIR bridge to Machado, who is 19 and 2-3 years away.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
2:01 pm
ncscoots: Like the dialogue.
My point is no team serious of winning big should have their catcher and Chipper occupying the 3-5 spots in the lineup. Their inevitable absences throughout the year don’t make it possible to win big.
And when I say “absence”, I also mean the worn-out, dog days of summer McCann that plays through the grind as well as the Chipper that pinch-hits throughout the season.
Salary Dump
December 16th, 2011
2:01 pm
“The only way the Braves get a big return for Jurrjens is after the Gio, Darvish, Shields, etc pieces have all fallen into place and some team gets an itchy trigger finger. ”
Yeah and two weeks ago it was, “its gonna happen once Wilson and Buerle are off the market.”
So in essence JJ is barely in the top 10 of available pitchers if you have to wait until the ever growing list of more desirable pitchers are signed or traded to trade him.
So why be patient? If he is no better than that, then don’t expect much return for him.
Again it’s the old Braves philosophy that frequently bites them. “Buy low and sell high!” Of course that doesn’t seem to happen very often in the real world.
Hey!!! No wonder the Braves fans get mad! Wren, local media and the Braves family play their pieces up to be great so when they only get a mediocre return for them, fans can’t understand it.
Just like Wren saying after the Braves folded in September that JHey didn’t have a job and would have to earn it. That was bull. He has the job, no matter what. The Braves don’t even have anyone to compete with him and are penciling him in the lineup again this year just like nothing ever happened!
Talk is cheap. And if it’s cheap, the Braves are all about that!
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
2:06 pm
To correct an earlier post, I didn’t know Hardy had already signed that extension. That’s a really, really club-friendly contract for Hardy, though. Quality offensive/defensive shortstops aren’t readily available.
Jurrjens/Prado for Hardy/A.Jones is actually a good deal as constituted.
Love to hear Lew’s take. I don’t always agree with him but I do value his opinion.
jfp
December 16th, 2011
2:06 pm
Best news for the Braves is Cuddyer and Willingham signing. Prado’s value just went up. JJ’s will go up when a couple more pitchers sign or get traded. Patience is a virtue and Wren hasn’t had to show it this time of the year before. I’m sure he will act quickly once the right deal opens up.
Zing
December 16th, 2011
2:07 pm
Cuddyer signing with the Rockies…. HELLLLOOOOOO ROCKIES! We’ve got some starting pitching for ya! Give us Smith and your biggest prospect and Mr. Jurrjens is yours!
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
2:08 pm
Salary Dump: You make it sound like Fredi is cheap and Wren is cheap, etc. Ownership sucks, we get that. But there’s nothing we can do about that short of you buying the team, eh?
We have the resources to win…we just need to use them a bit more wisely than 1/3 of the league.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
2:09 pm
Jurrjens/Prado for Hardy/A.Jones is actually a good deal as constituted.
Neither Hardy nor Adam Jones should hit any higher than 7 on this team. I’d be reluctant to trade Jurrjens and Prado for a bottm third of the order.
Fredo prolly hits them 2 and 3, though, LOL, so the point might be moot.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
2:10 pm
Zing: I’m just not enamored with Smith to deal Jurrjens.
Sign Luke Scott if Seth Smith is all ya got for Jurrjens. Deal Jurrjens at the deadline at that point.
Salary Dump
December 16th, 2011
2:13 pm
Contrary to what many here keep saying, just because other options have been removed from the market, doesn’t mean remaining pieces value suddenly skyrocket!
The early shoppers generally have money and or pieces for acquisitions . The late shoppers are generally trying to get a bargain to fill their holes. Just because the early bird got the star, it doesn’t suddenly turn a leftover piece into a gold piece! Patience can lead to a better deal. Patience can also lead to a worse deal than you could have done earlier.
Zing
December 16th, 2011
2:13 pm
Actually, I agree with you TommyP re: Smith. But it does seem clear that the Rockies have much less of a need for a prospect OF and a current OF. I guess we’ll see how it plays out.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
2:15 pm
scoots:
Bourn
Chipper
McCann
Uggla
Freeman
Hardy
Heyward
Adam Jones
That lineup doesn’t get you excited WITH the addition of much better defense???????
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
2:21 pm
I bet Beltran goes to the Cardinals. They’ll put him in RF ad Berkman at 1st.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
2:23 pm
Patience can lead to a better deal. Patience can also lead to a worse deal than you could have done earlier.
Successfully timing a market, any market, means doing a due diligence on that market to grasp the underlying fundamentals of that market. Patience isn’t a strategy, it’s the outward manifestation of due diligence that (Wren) says, “The intrinsic value of this asset may not change, but its relative value should increase.” I doubt that Wren just decided that during a middle-of-the-night potty break.
One of the tenets of doing this kind of thing successfully is that you measure the value of retaining the asset and refuse offers that do not improve your portfolio over that value. Keeping Jurrjens has value, and Wren would be poorly served by ignoring that.
jfp
December 16th, 2011
2:23 pm
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
2:21 pm
I bet Beltran goes to the Cardinals. They’ll put him in RF ad Berkman at 1st.
That was suggested on XM this morning.
Ozzie
December 16th, 2011
2:26 pm
Apart from Vaz and maybe Edgar trades the Braves buy low and sell low. They should have traded Prado when they picked up Uggla b/c he was at peak value and under control for three years.
Instead they kept him for insurance and to play out of position thereby diminishing his value.
Same with JJ. Trade him a year ago and you would get more.
They have one foot in youth/rebuilding and one foot in compete for the post season this year and its not working.
They have no long term strategy and playing both sides of the above fence is why this team implodes like clock work.
All teams have injuries and many find a way to win. A flawed team like ATL with a very tight budget cannot afford anything more than a bench player getting a hang nail.
These are not tough luck occurrences and odd slumps. This team is flawed and trying to be two things at once.
Until FO is flushed this will continue b/c no one has the vision or guts to write off a year or two and really rebuild selling pieces at their peak value for future stars.
The problem is this strategy is not getting good results in the post season and the fans are staying away in bunches even when the team is in thick of the playoff race.
Most long term fans no longer trust the team to play 162 games and beyond. They now expect a face plant. This blog withstanding (not avg fans but rather very passionate and overtly loyal fans) people lost faith or trust more easily. You need those fair weather fans b/c they fill up the stadium and but merchandise.
That is the game.
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
2:28 pm
jfp, yeah I mean since they lost Pujols and Beltran is the best FA hitter left. Plus you know Berkman will be back and has played 1st plenty ……
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
2:30 pm
Oops, forgot about Fielder still out there. He’s the best one FA hitter still out there, but it just seems since Berkman has covered 1st base, knows the position, and they could save some cash going after Beltran instead of Fielder …
DAP
December 16th, 2011
2:31 pm
here is my current mock-25 man roster
Braves 2012 25-Man
Lineup
1. Brian McCann C
2. Freddie Freeman 1B
3. Dan Uggla 2B
4. Tyler Pastornicky SS
5. Chipper Jones 3B
6. Martin Prado LF
7. Michael Bourn CF
8. Jason Heyward RF
Rotation
9. Tim Hudson SP
10. Jair Jurrjens SP
11. Tommy Hanson SP
12. Brandon Beachy SP
13. Mike Minor SP
Bullpen
14. Craig Kimbrel CL
15. Jonny Venters RP
16. Eric O’Flarety RP
17. Kris Medlen RP
18. Robert Fish RP
19. Christhian Martinez RP
20. RP
Bench
21. David Ross BUC
22. Matt Diaz LF, RF
23. Eric Hinske 1B, RF, LF
24. Util
25. Util
not sure who the last arm in the ‘pen will be…perhaps varvarro. to me it looks like we have just enough room for 2 more utility spots…and outfielder who can back up CF and a infielder who can back up SS. If wren WASNT looking to make a pretty drastic change, i think this simple change would have happened already.
Hillbilly
December 16th, 2011
2:33 pm
What’s up with the gratuitous Dan Rather reference?
You know not which you speak. Dan Rather can frickin’ rake.
Well, I started to go Dan Cortese on you. Would that be any better? Plesac?
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
2:34 pm
Until FO is flushed this will continue b/c no one has the vision or guts to write off a year or two and really rebuild selling pieces at their peak value for future stars.
The operating policy of HVWNBH. Leading to great ratings from Baseball America and second-division finishes in the bigs.
I don’t know how much younger some folks want this team to be. Half of them haven’t been around long enough to find the road strip clubs, as it is.
DS1
December 16th, 2011
2:35 pm
TommyP
I understand what you are saying that you don’t think we can go far into October with Chipper and Mac batting in the 3-5 slots. I hear ya. Chipper misses a lot of time. Mac needs 1 day off a week.
But look at the flip side. Chipper is at a minimum a top 10 third baseman when he plays. Mac is the best hitting catcher in baseball when he plays.
When they both don’t play on the same day, that leaves a gaping hole in the lineup. Today you fill in at catcher with David Ross, who hits well in the 6-8 slots. As for Chipper’s replacement; today you have a combo of Hinske and Diaz to fill in. I expect that will change between now and opening day. But either of those guys also hits well in the 6-8 slots.
So, the big question is this: Who moves up and takes over the slack? If we have the Martin Prado and Jason Heyward from 2010, then we are covered.
Even though we are in a unique situation where our aging vet and our catcher are our best two hitters, if the rest of our lineup is strong, that is a GOOD problem to have.
You’re looking at it all wrong, I think. Just sayin…….
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
2:36 pm
DAP – 4. Tyler Pastornicky SS
Funny to see the rookie short stop in the 4-spot.
DS1
December 16th, 2011
2:40 pm
DAP
I think he’s going to make a more drastic move than just a utility player. Just a hunch and comes back to statements he has made about not sitting still after the collapse.
But many of us hope he doesn’t go all ape shyt and get trigger happy either. With that roster you outline, if a couple of breaks come our way, we are in the playoffs.
We just need Uggla to start hitting 1 month earlier, Heyward to get over the bumps and bruises, Hanson and Huddy to have normal recoveries, and mainly Prado to have a Marteeeen type of 800+ OPS year.
That will just about do it.
Hillbilly
December 16th, 2011
2:40 pm
I don’t know how much younger some folks want this team to be. Half of them haven’t been around long enough to find the road strip clubs, as it is.
We’re shooting for the All-Fake I.D. Team, evidently.
Juan
December 16th, 2011
2:42 pm
BREAKING NEWS….Barry Bond to sign one yr deal with the Braves.
No jail time for him 2 yr prob and 4 thousand fine
DAP
December 16th, 2011
2:42 pm
MFin04, but a mccann freeman 1-2 punch at the top will be awesome.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
2:43 pm
We’re shooting for the All-Fake I.D. Team, evidently.
Gillette would have stopped sponsoring The Game Of The Week a lot sooner, had the Braves’ team age been the norm.
Hillbilly
December 16th, 2011
2:44 pm
Barry Bond to sign one yr deal with the Braves.
Wow, who is on trial here? Bonds or the Braves fans?
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
2:44 pm
DS1 – I don’t disagree with that analysis. If you add Michael Bourn in for the whole season and Jurrjens pitching the whole year, it is very possible this team is better than last year.
It still would be nice to upgrade via free agency and have even more options if things don’t pan out with any of Hanson/Hudson/Jurrjens/Heyward/Prado/Pastornicky.
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
2:45 pm
Bonds gets 30 days of electronic monitoring, 2 years probation, a $4,000 fine, 250 hrs of community service
DAP
December 16th, 2011
2:48 pm
DS1, my opinion may not be popular, but i feel like if we could rid ourselves of one of my favorites, matt diaz, we could go get luke scott and cody ross on the cheap, to go along with the veteran SS backup, and we would have a heck of a bench. no really soft spots there.
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
2:48 pm
Bonds could probably still outhit Seth Smith and Adam Jones.
RC
December 16th, 2011
2:49 pm
250 hrs of community service
Can he fullfill that requirement by returning to play for the Pirates next season?
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
2:52 pm
RC-
haven’t Pirates fans suffered enough over the last decade? Man, you’re cruel.
spike
December 16th, 2011
2:56 pm
Bonds gets 30 days of electronic monitoring, 2 years probation, a $4,000 fine, 250 hrs of community service
And in all likelihood, won’t even get that when the single charge of being “evasive” in the middle of truthfully answering a question is tossed on appeal. 50M in taxpayer money, and for what? Stupid witch hunt.
kenhotlanta
December 16th, 2011
2:56 pm
In other news, Hell freezes over again: Surviving members of The Beach Boys Announce 50th Anniversary Reunion, New Album and Tour. Is this anti-climatic after we finally get the original Smile album? I hope it’s all Good Vibrations and it doesn’t implode next year.
DS1
December 16th, 2011
2:56 pm
DAP
The fact that an estimated half of Diaz pay is coming from the Pirates makes me think he is basically not a lot more secure than a player with a minor league contract and a tryout.
The Braves don’t normally throw away a million bucks every day, but I still think Matty is on audition.
And if he rakes against lefties like he has in every year he has played with the Braves; when not hurt, then he might be a welcome addition.
But I like Luke Scott’s bat. Not sure of his D though.
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
2:57 pm
You can’t start a fire without a spark.
jfp
December 16th, 2011
2:57 pm
TnBrian, I don’t think the Cards have any interest in Fielder. But Berkman cannot be considered a long term solution for first. The offer made to Pujols was made to save face with Cards fans, they didn’t really want him to take that offer and be on the hook for 10 years in the NL. He drove up the market for Fielder and the best place for him will be with the Rangers. This gives the Cards a lot more flexibility and less urgency since the Brewers just got weaker.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
2:58 pm
Cant wait till Beltran signs with a team so yall idiots will stop talking about him
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
2:59 pm
“And if he rakes against lefties like he has in every year he has played with the Braves; when not hurt, then he might be a welcome addition.”
I think Matty Diaz will be great against lefties. He always seems to win a few games a year with his ability to swing at terrible pitches and drive in runs against great left-handers.
DS1
December 16th, 2011
3:00 pm
When the Feds spend that much money pursuing someone of such a small thing (he frickin lied to them!), somebody WAY the heck up in government should get his azz fired and fined.
And those damned government attorneys need to be forced to give back half their pay for pursuing such a case.
The man juiced. He didn’t kill anybody or anything, except maybe his stones. I don’t like him at all, but this trial was totally ridiculous.
Murph
December 16th, 2011
3:01 pm
Cant wait till Beltran signs with a team so yall idiots will stop talking about him
If it aggravates you then I’ll be sure to bring up Beltran over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
And over.
TnBrian
December 16th, 2011
3:01 pm
We’re talking away
I don’t know what I’m to say, I’ll say it anyway
jfp
December 16th, 2011
3:02 pm
DS1
Well said. Talking about a complete waste of tax payers money.
DS1
December 16th, 2011
3:02 pm
MFin04
Luck is one thing (concerning Matt Diaz), but go look at his lifetime splits in seasons he has not been injured. Luck only lives so long………
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
3:03 pm
“Cant wait till Beltran signs with a team so yall idiots will stop talking about him”
Agreed! Can’t wait to see him in the Braves blue uniform!
1 Bourn
2 Chipper
3 Beltran
4 Uggla
5 McCann
6 Freeman
7 Heyward
8 Pastornicky
DS1
December 16th, 2011
3:04 pm
Murph
Let’s start a “Friends of Carlos” club………….
later folks…… save a seat for me later.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
3:06 pm
Cant wait till Beltran signs with a team so yall idiots will stop talking about him
oh, Paul. Rest assured that after he signs the blog will talk about him even more. They’ll talk about how Wren could have signed him, and how he’d be a much better option in LF than Prado. Heck, someone will probably even make a point that Beltran could have been signed to play 3B next season or SS in 2012. You can never escape Beltran, my friend.