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3,625 comments Add your comment
Lew
December 16th, 2011
9:29 am
DAP – Same here. I think he (like many others here in recent months) concentrates on all the negatives and steadfastly refuses to acknowledge anything poitive about the Braves.
I suppose that after the September we had that it was an inevitability.
Brave New World
December 16th, 2011
9:32 am
Braves will win 90+ games in 2012.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
9:33 am
Still would like to see the Braves add Cody Ross. Makes perfect sense for our 4 OF. I know they want to go defensively for the backup SS but Theriot wouldn’t be a bad sign although it seems we will probably end up with Cedeno.
Venice Jim
December 16th, 2011
9:35 am
I see that uga waited until right after I signed off last night to lobby for Beltran – as a back-up, playing 120 games, no less. A perfect fit for the money he is looking for…
CB
December 16th, 2011
9:38 am
George King of NY Post has an article that says Blue Jays have made a bid for Yu Darvish’s rights of somewhere between 40-50 million. Then Darvish will want a contract of at least 5yrs- 75 million, so your investment is app. 120 million. 24 million for a guy who has never pitched against against the quality of our teams here, insanity.
Venice Jim
December 16th, 2011
9:44 am
CB – I’ve found it interesting that when I’ve heard discussions of the dangers of signing “overseas” pitchers our old friend is never mentioned…
Lew
December 16th, 2011
9:55 am
Talk about realism – my artificial tree is shedding fake pine needles.
Don
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
Don’t undetstand why people are upset about standing pat.
After all, we have:
A part time, poor defensive 3rd baseman who is our third place hitter – but no longer hits like a third place hitter – even when he plays.
No experienced shortstop – and no real basis to believe that the rookie will hit.
A second baseman who has a poor BA and a poor On Base Average, is average defensively (at best) – even though he does have some power.
A left fielder who is not really a left fielder, and who knows if he will bounce back to being a good hitter.
No right fielder – or a right fielder for whom there is not basis to think that he will be an effective hitter.
AND WORST OF ALL — FOUR out of our FIVE Starting Pitchers are coming off injuries – may not return to being good. – and even worse, the situation in which almost every Starting Pitcher that we have had in the 6 or 7 years since Leo left – becomming injured.
Bat Masterson
December 16th, 2011
10:00 am
Who’s to say
Lew
December 16th, 2011
10:00 am
Eyore has returned for his daily cry fest.
BravePack
December 16th, 2011
10:01 am
If your going to throw money at Cody Ross why not go for the more consistent bat in Cuddyer. I’m sure Ross is going to want a couple year deal as well so for a few million more you could have a guy with more power and can play multiple positions in Cuddyer. Please don’t tell me the Braves have that hitter in Prado as Prado can’t stay on the field and will never hit for the power that Cuddyer can. Then you can trade Prado for prospects.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
10:07 am
Glad we base everything off one year. Who needs career stats when their previous season is all you need to determine whether a player will be good. Just like the first 5 months from last year don’t matter. We had a terrible September therefore we will suck in 2012. Give me a break.
TennesseePaul
December 16th, 2011
10:07 am
but they play in the same division as the top two spending teams in baseball (Yanks and Sox) and the most talented team in baseball (Rays)
The Rays are proof that playing in a division with big spenders is no excuse for not competing. I see the Jays turning it around and becoming contenders. I think their new GM is going to saturate the farm with talent and start making some real teams.
DAP
December 16th, 2011
10:09 am
bravepack, i think cody ross will be significantly less expensive than cuddyer.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
10:10 am
P’cola Brave…”Still would like to see the Braves add Cody Ross. Makes perfect sense for our 4 OF.”
I agree, but unfortunately the Braves already have Diaz on the roster, so I doubt they would invest another $2-3mm in another right-handed backup outfielder. Assuming the Braves hang onto Prado, I really see Constanza on the opening day roster as a 5th outfielder, since Prado effectively serves as a backup infielder as well. If they move Prado, no way they carry a 5th outfielder. I could see them bringing back Conrad in that instance, in addition to adding a guy like Cedeno to backup short.
Bottom line, I don’t have a feeling the Braves are going to do anything major this offseason, except for maybe trading Jurrjens for prospects. But that won’t impact the ML roster all that much. And I’m fine with that. I like Prado in left and I think he’ll have a huge bounce-back season. If you’ve played baseball before, you probably know that it’s really hard to drive the ball on bad legs. He couldn’t do anything for 3 weeks while the wound from that infection healed. Muscles atrophy a LOT in 3 weeks, and it takes a while to rebuild that strength. I think an offseason of rebuilding that leg strength will give us back the Prado we saw in 2009-2010. They can always trade him next offseason.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
10:12 am
Bravepack
Cuddyer is a solid hitter but is similar to Prado but with more power. Ross will cost about half if not less than Cuddyer and will probably only get a two year deal. Ross has smashed lefties in his career and has a good line hitting in ATL and against division rivals. His ability to play CF is a big plus. In order to get Cuddyer you’d probably need to move Prado and JJ. The want for Ross is for a different scenario than Cuddyer. Cuddyer would be full time while Ross serves as a 4 OF while retaining JJ and Prado.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
10:12 am
TenneseePaul, did you see that Law chat comment I posted yesterday afternoon? Smith, Wheeler and Rutledge for Jurrjens? He said it wasn’t enough and that package was more quantity than quality.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
10:14 am
Lemke’s – Pretty much agree with you exept for one point – I think that Cody Ross will cost more than $2-3 million.
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:17 am
dp: Yes, I do think Braves and Orioles have continued their discussions. So far no leaks from either side as to whom is targeted from O’s. We’ve all been speculating on that part….
McCann Fan: There are so many great, economical lines in “Outfit.” Isbell wasted not a word in that gem…
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
10:17 am
Lemke
Spend a lot of time playing and coaching the game. Your right, after Prado came back he was never the same. It seemed he tried to over compensate and became pull happy. Injuries can do a lot to a player. Not only does it weaken them but can cause bad mechanics from players trying to cheat a swing or reduce pain (McCann, Heyward).
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:18 am
Interesting note on MLBTradeRumors:
Cespedes and his agent, Adam Katz of Wasserman Media Group, are starting negotiations at “Chapman money,” one general manager tells Passan, in reference to Aroldis Chapman’s six-year, $30.25MM contract with the Reds.
If that’s what they are looking for, there is absolutely no reason the Braves should not be involved in the bidding. However, if the bidding goes much higher than that (which I think it should), then the Braves are probably not in a position to go much higher.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
10:18 am
I don’t think Adam Jones is the target…..
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:21 am
Adam Rubin, who covers the Mets, had a good explanatory story back in April about the intricacies of insuring contracts these days, and how the Mets didn’t insure some including Johan Santana’s monster deal. Reading the story, I think you can also see why some teams with budget constraints would less likely to take a risk on a big contract for an injury-prone player. This was the story
Johan Santana is tossing a baseball on flat ground in Port St. Lucie, Fla., four times a week, with an eye toward stepping on a mound for the first time about May 1.
Still, Santana may not be back in a major league uniform until after the All-Star break.
And the Mets are getting no relief via insurance in the interim for the ace’s $22.5 million salary for this year.
As premiums have skyrocketed because of escalating salaries and past payouts — such as the bailout when Mo Vaughn was owed $17 million and could not play for the Mets in 2004 — the organization began more often “self-insuring” its larger contracts than seeking outside coverage. In essence, the Mets chose to create a rainy-day fund available so that the organization would not be crippled financially by the loss of a key player due to injury.
It saves potentially a $2 million insurance premium per year to protect a contract, although the amount annually paid to an insurance company naturally decreases as the years on the contract elapse — like you’d pay less to an insurance company on a car as the years go by and the vehicle is worth less.
Across baseball, outside insurance has “declined tremendously,” according to one baseball official.
Santana was self-insured by the Mets, whereas the contracts for Carlos Beltran, David Wright and Jose Reyes were insured by an outside company. Tom Glavine and Mike Piazza’s contracts were insured externally during their Mets days as well.
Insurance generally covers the salary after a deductible period — usually either after the player has missed 60 or 90 days of games.
Policies can exclude particular body parts if the player has been injured there in the past.
John Scotti, whose Pittsburgh-based Team Scotti handles the majority of the insurance coverage for major league teams, explained: “Clubs who benefit the most from this type of coverage establish a risk philosophy which spells out what contracts they would or would not insure. Generally the main components setting the philosophy parameters are whether the player is a position player or pitcher along with the monetary size on the contract and length of contract.”
As for how escalating salaries have affected insurance, Scotti said typically a policy only pays out if the incapacitation occurs in the first three years of the contract now, whereas it used to be five years.
Said Scott: “What this means is a club can insure a five- or 10-year contract, but the injury or illness must occur within the first 36 months in order to receive benefits in years four, five, six, seven, eight, nine or 10 as long as the disability has continued to be the cause of his inability to perform.”
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:21 am
Trade idea:
Baltimore gets Shane from “The Walking Dead” (his value will never be higher).
Atlanta gets McNulty and the Bunk from “The Wire”.
(Atlanta might have to throw in the annoying old guy with the RV or the kid to even things out).
JasonInFL
December 16th, 2011
10:24 am
Efrim, you do you think the target is?
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:26 am
Rockies have reached a deal with Cuddyer.
DAP
December 16th, 2011
10:26 am
lemke’s knuckler unfortunately the Braves already have Diaz on the roster, so I doubt they would invest another $2-3mm in another right-handed backup outfielder
diaz doesnt play a good CF though. cody ross is decent there. serviceable at least. that sets him apart.
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:26 am
According to Jon Heyman. So “maybe” a deal has been reached….
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
10:27 am
“What this means is a club can insure a five- or 10-year contract, but the injury or illness must occur within the first 36 months in order to receive benefits in years four, five, six, seven, eight, nine or 10 as long as the disability has continued to be the cause of his inability to perform.”
Another good example of why everyone that thinks they can do a better job that Frank Wren should step back and realize the job he has is a little more complicated that just trading baseball cards.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
10:28 am
The Rockies have agreed to sign Michael Cuddyer, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (on Twitter).
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
10:29 am
Jason, not sure. Just don’t think it’s Adam Jones…
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:29 am
Two minutes too late Efrim! I blog scooped you!
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
10:30 am
DAP…”diaz doesnt play a good CF though. cody ross is decent there. serviceable at least. that sets him apart.”
I agree Ross is a better fit than Diaz. But that wasn’t my point. My point was Diaz is already under contract for $2mm, so why would they have two backup outfielders making a combined $5-8mm. That doesn’t make any sense.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
10:32 am
I see no room for Seth Smith in that Colorado outfield with Cuddyer, Fowler and Gonzalez there. Rockies still need a 2nd and 3rd baseman – although I guess they could go with D.J. Lemahieu at 2nd and Jordan Pachecho at 3rd.
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:34 am
although I guess they could go with D.J. Lemahieu at 2nd and Jordan Pachecho at 3rd.
Wouldn’t Arrenado be more likely at 3b? I thought they mentioned during the offseason that he’d be given a chance in spring training to win the starting 3b job this year.
JasonInFL
December 16th, 2011
10:38 am
Efrim, really? It has to be Jones or Markakis, no? And with Markakis’ salary…
Can’t see much else the Braves would be interested in as far as help now players.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
10:38 am
RC…”Wouldn’t Arrenado be more likely at 3b? I thought they mentioned during the offseason that he’d be given a chance in spring training to win the starting 3b job this year.”
I don’t remember the Rockies ever mentioning that. Arenado hasn’t even sniffed AA yet. I could see him coming up later in the season, but not the opening day roster.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
10:41 am
The problem is that we live in a “microwave generation” and folks want results NOW. It’s why coaches aren’t given enough time to build a team in football or basketball. Everybody wants to skip the process and just focus on results.
Shanks sounds like a pouty little girl without a date for the dance.
Let me be clear on my stance on Wren. I started out not very excited about him and his first few moves only solidified my dislike. However, I think he’s made good move after another in the past couple years.
Wren is exhausting all possibilities right now.
Think about it. People are complaining that Wren isn’t signing Punto or Cedeno right now. REALLY? You have to have a pathetic life right now if your excitement hinges on Wren signing a guy of that caliber. We’re talking a backup middle infielder, folks.
If we could get the deal done for Quentin that was mentioned earlier, hold onto Prado and deal Jurrjens for a couple of NICE prospects ready for the bigs at CF and 3B, I’d be happy as can be.
Still would love to get Chase Headley from SD. Plug into LF, takes over for Chipper in a year at 3B. He’s ready to break out big time once he gets out of that ballpark.
Baseball is a marathon season yet we have so many college football attitudes toward everything. Including the hot stove portion.
Patience. Wren will make some quality moves, folks.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
10:42 am
Cuddyer would prob play 3B for Rockies, so Seth Smith is not necessarily out of job
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
10:42 am
LEMKE
IIRC Pittsburgh is paying a good bit of Diaz salary this year. The Braves still need to acquire someone that can backup CF. Though they may choose to do so internally instead of paying someone.
O.J.
December 16th, 2011
10:44 am
The Rockies were 4th in their division last year, and they are making moves. Braves have the worst collapse of any National League team in the longest time and say they are looking for a Left Fielder with power. So why is it so frustrating for me to see the Rockies signing Cuddyer and the Braves have done absolutely fricking NOTHING!?
Frank needs to do something, what the hell is he waiting for, honestly?
DAP
December 16th, 2011
10:44 am
lemke’s knuckler Diaz is already under contract for $2mm, so why would they have two backup outfielders making a combined $5-8mm. That doesn’t make any sense.
ah, ok… i see what your saying. but, i think it could still make sense, simply because they need a player who can backup CF. that could be constanza…but it might be better to have diez as the righthanded pinch hitter, and use ross as the 4th OF. hinske is making almost as much as diaz to be a pinch hitter, so its not all that far fetched.
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
10:45 am
Cuddyer gets $31.5 mill for 3 yrs from Rockies….
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
10:45 am
DOB: Not sure if anyone else would be interested but I have an idea for a blog once things get pretty dead, all FAs are signed, etc.
I’ve always wondered about the genesis of the DOB blog. Who was the first to suggest the idea? What went on in the conversations before its creation? Did YOU suggest it needed to be more than just baseball and the Braves or was it just combining your favorite interests in one blog?
Just think that would make a memorable read.
DAP
December 16th, 2011
10:46 am
efrim I see no room for Seth Smith in that Colorado outfield with Cuddyer, Fowler and Gonzalez there. Rockies still need a 2nd and 3rd baseman
cuddyer plays 2nd and 3rd. maybe they arent playing him in the outfield.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
10:49 am
OJ – It took a perfect storm of Braves’ losses and Cardinal wins to lose out on the playoffs last year and we STILL won 89 games.
Do you seriously believe that this was anything other than an anomaly? If so, why?
We still have basically the same team only with a deeper pen and more experience from our young starters. Given the work ethic we know he exhibits and the obvious pride he has in his game, do you seriously believe Prado has sunken to a level and won’t have a comeback year? Do you truly believe that Wren will make no moves at all?
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:50 am
Lemke’s Knuckler,
Yeah, you are right on Arrenado. For some reason I thought he had played this year at AA….didn’t realize how young he was. Still not sure how I got that thought in my head that the Rockies have said he’ll be given a chance….it doesn’t make any sense, based on the facts you stated above.
RC
December 16th, 2011
10:53 am
Do you truly believe that Wren will make no moves at all? – Lew
And even if he doesn’t, that’s not necessarily a “bad” thing. Simply by players rebounding to their career norms the team as currently constructed should be a lot better than last year’s. The only area that I’d say we might expect a negative regression would be the bullpen, but that’s mainly because they were historically good last year.
O.J.
December 16th, 2011
10:53 am
Lew, I am not saying Frank wont make a move, but we have heard all winter how he is looking for a LF with power, but yet he is sitting around while all the power hitting left fielders are getting signed. Prado is either a second baseman or Utility player in my book, he is not a left fielder. I know we can trade for a power hitter, but then that would mean trading JJ and Prado, and I dont like that. If we were to sign a LFer, then we could fill our Utility role with Prado and keep JJ for depth.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
10:56 am
OJ – And what makes you think he’s sitting around and doing nothig? Just because no deal has been made? Because you listen to rumors? Because all the possibilities that exist are Free Agents or people you hear about?
Come on Dude – patience will see the answer to all your questions – though probably it won’t be the move you would have made had you been the GM – of that I’m certain. Pretty sure we’ll have someone playing LF this year, though.
jeffrey d
December 16th, 2011
10:57 am
I like how Don drops by for his one daily negative rant and then fades away into his dreary world.
Unless he’s trolling us, in which case he’s doing a great job.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
10:59 am
Season starts in April, OJ. Braves aren’t signing any FAs to fill holes. They’ll trade to find the pieces.
That’s why there isn’t the sense of urgency with Wren that so many people have on here. It’s ridiculous to hear the complaining.
ncscoots
December 16th, 2011
11:03 am
we have heard all winter how he is looking for a LF with power,
I think you’ve heard that from posters, not Wren. He might indeed have said that, but, I don’t remember such a quote.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
11:03 am
We keep hearing how Prado is really a second baseman yet the numbers really say otherwise. In his MLB career –
2B – 199 games
3B – 166 games
LF – 104 games
1B – 52 games
Seems he really doesn’t play 2B nearly as much as most here seem to believe. And as for not being a LFer? Dude played 103 games out there last year and made only 3 errors in 180 chances and had 6 assists. Not all that bad for an injured, non left fielder IMO.
RC
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
Someone put Pujols’ new salary into a “cost of living” calculator. The results are simply fantastic.
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/12/2630356/why-didnt-anyone-tell-me-about-this
LJ
December 16th, 2011
11:07 am
also, believe it or not, Diaz will be fine. last winter everyone was crying about him being gone, now you don’t want him.
DS1
December 16th, 2011
11:19 am
I don’t recall Wren saying he was looking for a power hitting outfielder.
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
11:19 am
Braves trading for Oriole players? That sounds like a great idea…so many winners on that team to choose from. Hope we can trade a couple of our All-Stars to them and make the Baltimore fan base happy.
Trade no one. Sign Beltran. Done.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
11:24 am
How does a team not being very good make everyone on that team suck? Mariners suck but I’m sure everyone would line up for King Felix. Royals sucked but we want their players. Pirates sucked but we want McCutchen. I don’t understand how a team being bad makes everyone involved terrible?
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
11:26 am
Rockies even more inclined to trade Seth Smith now that they have Cuddyer. If Braves could get a young CF and/or other young talent, would then trade Jurrjens? Stay tuned. Rockies still looking for pitching.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
11:28 am
How can people complain about Chipper and the money he makes but want to sign Beltran who will cost nearly as much and probably miss near the same amount of time.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
11:34 am
“We are banking on someone that has the chance to be an average shortstop?”
When did we become the frickin Pirates?
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
11:35 am
Heard on MLBN last night that Beltran has at least one offer of $10 million per year on table. No way Braves are gonna get in bidding war for a guy with 2 achy knees. I think we can most likely kill the Beltran talk.
Lollygagger
December 16th, 2011
11:38 am
DOB-
Don’t you think Cuddyer would probably play 3B or 2B for Rockies, meaning Seth Smith wouldn’t necessarily be out of their plans? I trust your thoughts and insight on baseball way more than mine, but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Cuddyer will play OF for COL.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
11:41 am
Rockies even more inclined to trade Seth Smith now that they have Cuddyer. If Braves could get a young CF and/or other young talent, would then trade Jurrjens?
Here’s Keith Law’s response to a trade scenario with Colorado/Jurrjens:
Jim (Hartford, CT)
Is Seth Smith, Tim Wheeler and Josh Rutledge a fair haul for Jair Jurrjens?
Klaw(1:55 PM)
I don’t think so. More quantity than quality.
I wholeheartedly agree with him. That sort of package may have been okay for Martin Prado. But I don’t think it’s nearly enough for Jurrjens….
Chris
December 16th, 2011
11:41 am
Come meet Bobby Cox and get an autograph. FCB Sports Cards 9850 Nesbit Ferry Rd Suite 21 Alpharetta GA Saturday December 17th 1 PM It should be a fun time, as I have been looking forward to this for a while. I’ve had other guests in here like Craig Kimbrel, Brandon Beachy and Julio Teheran, but none this big.
We will have photographs on hand and plenty of autograph tickets to go around. See you there! Please note that this isn’t a free signing, because well bobby does charge for his autograph appearances.
Mikeyc588
December 16th, 2011
11:44 am
DOB –
From the Denver Post:
Smith hit .284 with 15 homers and 59 RBIs last season, but produced only five extra-base hits in 92 at-bats off lefties.
Seems like a great candidate for a LF platoon with Diaz, but I would hesitate to give up Jurrjens with (I think) 2 years of control left for a platoon player and a CF prospect? That seems like a pretty low return for an All-Star pitcher, even if he does have knee issues. I’d rather give up Prado to the Rockies, but do you think the Rockies plan on playing Cuddyer at 2B this year?
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
11:47 am
“How can people complain about Chipper and the money he makes but want to sign Beltran who will cost nearly as much and probably miss near the same amount of time.”
Because Beltran is a younger and better player? I have no problem with the Braves having both of them. When they are on the field both are great. I’m ok with them both being injury prone. If they play 120-130 games at an All-Star level, and Prado fills in the other 60-80 in LF and 3B, then that’d be perfect.
It’s a lot better option than Seth Smith, Adam Jones, etc. Who cares if they play 160 games. I mean Francoeur could play 160 games for us, bu that doesn’t mean he’s any good.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
11:48 am
Chris – Email me lewhartman@comcast.net and I’ll see about getting you some art to get signed – for both of us. I’m in Vermont and can’t make it.
David O'Brien
December 16th, 2011
11:48 am
Orioles are another team shifting away from having advance scouts and pro scouts. Baltimore’s shakeup is more dramatic than Braves, who reassigned advance scout Bob Johnson to a special asst. role. Orioles moved SIX pro scouts:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/baltimore-orioles-shake-up-scouting-department-121611
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
11:50 am
“Heard on MLBN last night that Beltran has at least one offer of $10 million per year on table. No way Braves are gonna get in bidding war for a guy with 2 achy knees. I think we can most likely kill the Beltran talk.”
$10 million per year is doable. 2 years $20 million, 3 years $26 million? Maybe factor in games played into his salary?
Robert
December 16th, 2011
11:50 am
Regarding Prince Fielder – 10 years? Excuse me if I am hesitant to bank on that body when it’s 37 years old
Of course, I pretty much think ten year deals are silly no matter what. I dont care who the guy is or how much he has done to this point. Ten years is too far down the road – too much can change with the player, or with the organization’s circumstances. I think they are all nuts for giving ANYONE deals longer than 5 or 6 years
ccrider
December 16th, 2011
11:50 am
How about the Braves trade prospects to the Rockies for Smith and keep JJ and Prado. Hoover?
Robert
December 16th, 2011
11:53 am
“Heard on MLBN last night that Beltran has at least one offer of $10 million per year on table. No way Braves are gonna get in bidding war for a guy with 2 achy knees.”
Considering we are already paying a guy with shaky knees who is five years older than Beltran $15million a season, I’d say it’s a safe bet we dont wanna double dip in that particular area
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
11:54 am
From what I’ve seen on Beltran they expect him to sign around 3/36. Some team will get desperate and offer that if not more. I think around 14to is his max but I think someone signs him around 12to a year for 3 yrs
Rob from SC
December 16th, 2011
11:56 am
I am not saying we need a payroll of 150 million, but can we try to spend a little more money so we aren’t relegated to players on the scrapheap. I wouldn’t of signed Reyes, Rollins either,,, but we can’t afford Cuddyer.
Now we will be forced to trade Prado and/or Jurrjens to Colorado for crap… Wheeler had 1 good year at a hitters park.
Just keep everyone and hope Prado and Heyward produce.
ccrider
December 16th, 2011
11:57 am
P’cola Brave: I don’t think Beltran gets that much Maybe $10 mill
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
11:58 am
Robert
Apparently Boras wants an opt out clause in the deal for Fielder as well.
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
11:59 am
“Considering we are already paying a guy with shaky knees who is five years older than Beltran $15million a season, I’d say it’s a safe bet we dont wanna double dip in that particular area”
Why not? He doesn’t cost us Jurrjens or Prado. Chipper is done after this year. You simply get a player that is better than Chipper for cheaper and deal with the same headache of him being injured…but when he is in the lineup he makes a drastic impact.
No risk, no reward. Look at Lance Berkman last year. No one would touch him last year and he was a candidate for NL MVP this year.
Don
December 16th, 2011
12:00 pm
Robert, you are right.
Someone is probably really going to get burned if they give Prince Fielder anything long term. Players with his body type usually start failing to produce a realitive young age. Rember this was true of his father.
Mountain Braves Fan
December 16th, 2011
12:01 pm
MFin04, Prado could indeed fill in for Chipper and Beltran if they would coordinate their injuries/illnesses so that both are not out of the lineup at the same time. If they’re both out simultaneously, he can only fill in for one of them. Beltran is too much money and too much risk for the Braves.
P'cola Brave
December 16th, 2011
12:01 pm
How good is the Blackmon kid from Colorado?Is he a better bet than Wheeler. I know Wheeler has pop but the kid strikes out a ton and not a great average.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
12:03 pm
“Apparently Boras wants an opt out clause in the deal for Fielder as well.”
Sure. Why not? Thing is, as long as some team is willing to play with him, why shouldnt he ask?
Me personally? I dont care if EVERYONE else is smoking crack. I’m gonna pass on the opportunity
Would someone be nice enough to go get Cox’s hoofprint on an 8×10 glossy and mail it to me?
DAP
December 16th, 2011
12:03 pm
this blog compares luke scott with michael cuddyer: http://www.nasorb.com/2011/12/15/luke-scott-vs-michael-cuddyer-and-not-overpaying-for-aging-talen/
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
12:07 pm
“Beltran is too much money and too much risk for the Braves.”
Disagree. Adam Jones, Michael Cuddyer, Seth Smith…is too much risk for the Braves. Especially if it costs the Braves Prado and/or Jurrjens.
The one thing Beltran costs the Braves is money. Fortunately, it doesn’t cost them Prado or Jurrjens who could prove to be extremely valuable to the Braves next year.
Murph
December 16th, 2011
12:08 pm
I get the sinking feeling that Wren is working on something big… bigger than has been speculated on so far on the blog. Too silent for too long. The more I think about his statements after the season the more I believe that he’s not going to stand pat…time will tell, but I’d be really surprised if the words “Braves” and “Blockbuster” aren’t in a headline soon.
And I hope it’s not a comparison of the Braves to the Blockbuster video franchise.
Robert
December 16th, 2011
12:11 pm
By the way, I found something VERY interesting
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2010/07/23/bobby-coxs-addition-by-subtraction/
Bobby Cox’s teams have an overall winning percentage of around 55%. Yet they win over 60% of games in which Cox got ejected.
A 5% difference over the course of a season is 8 games
Figure in that the ejection could have occured anywhere from before the first pitch to extra innings – I read somewhere that the average ejection occurs in the 5th of 6th inning
So, if Bobby Cox doesnt manage one third to one half of the game, the team will win 8 games more per season.
Gee – I wonder how many more games they’d win if he didnt manage ANY of the game.
I always claimed that Cox cost his team an easy dozen games a season. Looks like the real answer might be more like 15-20
Anyway, you cant dispute the stats. His teams fared better when he wasnt around
Mountain Braves Fan
December 16th, 2011
12:13 pm
MFin04, in order for the Braves to afford Beltran they would have to trade JJ, and possibly Prado, for prospects. Beltran will get somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million to $12 million per season for multiple seasons. I hope he doesn’t get it from the Braves.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
12:15 pm
Since the beginning of the 2009 season, Chipper has missed 122 games and Beltran has missed 199 – despite Chipper being five years older..
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
12:17 pm
“MFin04, in order for the Braves to afford Beltran they would have to trade JJ, and possibly Prado, for prospects. Beltran will get somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million to $12 million per season for multiple seasons.”
Not true. Frank Wren has said they don’t have to move either of those two. And the Braves have $5-$8 million available. So you can always backload the contract to get Beltran. knowing that D-Lowe and Chipper will be off the books next year.
Beltran 3 year/$27 million
1st Year – $6 million
2nd Year – $9 million
3rd Year $12 million
Lew
December 16th, 2011
12:18 pm
Robert – Maybe you’ve noticed that Cox has retired? Why don’t you follow suit with your inane commentary on incoinsequetialities?
Robert
December 16th, 2011
12:18 pm
“Since the beginning of the 2009 season, Chipper has missed 122 games and Beltran has missed 199 – despite Chipper being five years older”
And in the games that they HAVE played, Beltran has been a much better producer than Chipper
At 65-80% of Chipper’s salary, Beltran is the better value for the money
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
12:18 pm
jaysonst Jayson Stark
What’s holding up trades of Gio, Danks, Garza, Jurrjens? Execs say several clubs waiting on Darvish & on Rays to decide which P they’ll deal
For all the folks that say “It’s only 12/16, we have two more months until ST”, I think many in the industry think it’s a little bizarre that in mid-December there has been 2 starting pitcher trades(Sanchez and Cahill) and 2 starting pitcher free agent signings(Buerhle and Wilson). It’s been a slow trade market this offseason. Still have 10 more days before Christmas, because like most offseasons, there just isn’t going to be a ton of player movement in January and February. Most things get done before 12/25. Certainly could carry over….but I’d expect business to pick up over the next week and if not, then maybe most teams will look to see how there team fares until June.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
12:19 pm
Yeah – Let’s give a heaviliy back loaded contract to someone who has proven he can’t stay healthy. I suppose it’s reasonable to expect he will at age 38?
MFin04
December 16th, 2011
12:20 pm
“Since the beginning of the 2009 season, Chipper has missed 122 games and Beltran has missed 199 – despite Chipper being five years older..”
Of course Chipper plays with injuries and hurts the team. Beltran actually sat out a whole season worth of games and possibly healed his injury. The fact that Beltran has missed more games might be a positive thing. As reflected in his 142 games played averaging .300/.385/.525/.910 last year.
Lemke's Knuckler
December 16th, 2011
12:27 pm
I’d do Jurrjens for Smith and Wheeler. I don’t see how that’s any different than the Vazquez for Cabrera and Vizcaino a few years ago. That one worked out pretty well for the Bravos. From the scouting reports I’ve read, this Wheeler kid is a pretty good bet to be an impact player at the ML level. Or maybe they could target Kyle Parker, but he may be as untouchable as Arenado.
Lew
December 16th, 2011
12:27 pm
Actually, Beltran never sat out an entire season.
Chipper averaged an OPS of .813 for those three years and was paid $38 million. Beltran averaged an .864 OPS and was paid $59 million.
Not so sure that .50 in OPS was wotrth all of $21 million.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
12:28 pm
ajcbravesDavid O’Brien
Name 1 pitcher traded 1st half in sim. scenario? RT @conjpat: @ajcbraves smart ones that see numbers aren’t supported by skills sell high…
Totally agree, DOB. Just doesn’t happen.
TommyP
December 16th, 2011
12:28 pm
To be fair, a lot of those “games played” by Chipper are actually 1 pinch hit performance after another.
It’s not just the DL stints for Chipper…it’s the 1-2 weeks stretch(es) that he just pinch-hits that hurts this team.
If he was a 6-hole hitter, it would be a different story. But he’s not on this team.
Efrim
December 16th, 2011
12:30 pm
I’d do Jurrjens for Smith and Wheeler. I don’t see how that’s any different than the Vazquez for Cabrera and Vizcaino a few years ago.
The prospect part of it is quite different. I don’t think Tim Wheeler is a Top 150 prospect, let alone Top 100 – which Jurrjens should net, imo. The issue isn’t on the major league side. Smith is a decent platoon player. Wheeler isn’t strong enough a prospect for the deal to make sense for the Braves. Colorado isn’t a good system and other than Nolan Arenado and Drew Pomeranz, I don’t see any prospect making sense.