Don’t expect a Hanley-Fredi reunion in ATL
DALLAS – Amid reports Tuesday that Marlins shortstop Hanley Ramirez might ask to be traded rather than move to third base to accommodate newly signed Jose Reyes, Braves general manager Frank Wren was asked if maybe, possibly …
The answer was no.
No, the Ramirez situation would not have any effect on the Braves’ shortstop situation, Wren said. That confirmed what most assumed — the Braves would not pursue the enigmatic shortstop whom then-Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez famously benched in 2010 for not hustling after a ball that rolled into the outfield.
Gonzalez was in Wren’s suite Tuesday when the GM met with Atlanta writers during the second day of baseball’s Winter Meetings at the Hilton Anatole. Many in South Florida believed that Gonzalez’ brief benching of Ramirez helped get the manager fired soon after, because Ramirez was a favorite of Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria.
The Braves hired Gonzalez as manager after the 2010 season, to replace his retired mentor Bobby Cox.
Asked about Ramirez, Gonzalez said he thought the 27-year-old three-time All-Star and 2009 MVP runner-up would do well in the right clubhouse with a good mix of veterans around him.
But the Braves would not be a suitor if the Marlins were to trade him. Wren indicated it had more to do with the Braves’ situation — they are leaning toward rookie Tyler Pastornicky as their starting shortstop for 2012, and want to add a backup shortstop.
Ramirez’ average and OPS slipped from .342/.954 in 2009, to .300/.853 in 2010, and .243/.712 in an injury-shortened 2011 season. He’s owed $46 million over the next three seasons.
The Marlins this week signed free agent Reyes to a six-year, $106 million contract, and are also pursuing the biggest free agent of all, Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols.
The Braves are aiming to make far more modest moves this offseason, looking for a corner outfielder with some power and a backup shortstop. If they decide between now and Opening Day that Pastornicky needs another season or half-season of development, they would presumably acquire a veteran to serve as a bridge to Pastornicky, who’ll turn 22 next week and doesn’t have major league experience.
For now, Wren says they would be comfortable going to spring training with Pastornicky penciled in for the starting role.
“Our focus is on a traditional backup middle infielder that can play shortstop and can spell, if it turns out that it’s Tyler Pastornicky [in the starting role], that can spell him and maybe give him a day off a tough [pitcher] that Fredi feels like protects him a little bit, those type of scenarios.
“We’re not looking at [adding a] guy that’s a part-time shortstop or a semi-regular. We’re going with a traditional backup shortstop. That’s been our focus.”
They don’t want to make a multi-year commitment to any shortstop, because it would block the prospects they have coming up. The Braves plan to get solid shortstop play for an affordable rate for several years with their young talent.
They are four-deep in shortstop prospects, with skilled 22-year-old Andrelton Simmons perhaps a year or so behind Pastornicky on the organizational ladder. Simmons has what many scouts believe to be greater overall potential.
Shortstop prospects Nick Ahmed and Elmer Reyes are the other two shortstops the Braves view as solid prospects in the low minors. The Braves are so deep at the position, they moved 2010 first-round draft pick Matt Lipka from shortstop to center field during the fall Instructional League. Lipka will play center in the minors in 2012.
Among free-agent backup shortstops the Braves are known to have targeted is versatile Nick Punto, 33, who hit .278 with one homer and a .388 on-base percentage in 166 plate appearances during an injury-plagued season with St. Louis in 2011. The Cardinals are interested in re-signing Punto if the price is right, but for now St. Louis officials are focused on the overriding Pujols situation.
Wren said the Braves continued early stage trade discussions with several teams on Tuesday, but wouldn’t elaborate. Some teams including perhaps the Braves are waiting to see which players are non-tendered by the Monday deadline for teams to offer contracts to arbitration-eligible players.
– The Braves could non-tender Braves reliever Peter Moylan, who is recovering from shoulder surgery and will miss the early part of the season, and then try to sign him at a salary below the $2 million-plus that he would command through arbitration. Wren said he had discussed the possibility with Moylan’s agent during the general managers meetings last month in Milwaukee.
– Several teams have expressed interest in available Braves pitcher Jair Jurrjens and versatile infielder/outfielder Martin Prado, but word around the Winter Meetings hotel is that the Braves’ asking price for each has been too high so far. The market for Jurrjens could become clearer once free-agent pitchers C.J. Wilson and Mark Buehrle sign.
The Braves aren’t in a take-the-best-offer situation with either Jurrjens or Prado, and could keep either or both if they don’t get what they deem a suitable offer. Wren said again that the Braves do not need to make any moves to trim payroll.
“No, we don’t need to make a move for that,” Wren said. “Like I said yesterday and have said all along, anything we’re working on would be with an eye toward improving our club.”
– Simmons was named to the Topps Class-A All-Star team, the only Brave and only Carolina League player named to the team comprised Class A and high-A leagues.
Simmons won the Carolina League batting title with a .311 average, the only player to hit .300 in the league. He led the league in at-bats and was second in doubles (35). Baseball America rated him the Carolina League’s fourth-best prospect.
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190 comments Add your comment
Jay
December 6th, 2011
8:45 pm
I know it is corny but first..
T-Bone
December 6th, 2011
8:47 pm
Seems to me that we have our back-up shortstop. His name is Martin Prado.
daniel buck
December 6th, 2011
8:52 pm
dear Lord people… PRADO IS NOT A SS!!!!!! Period point blank… let it go
Seattle Braves
December 6th, 2011
8:52 pm
Martin Prado for SS.
Trade JJ for BJ Upton in LF.
Potentail Line up
1. Bourne
2. Upton
3. McCann
4. Uggla
5. Freeman
6. Chipper
7. Prado
8. Heyward
9. Hudson
Problem Solved!
Piedmont Blues
December 6th, 2011
8:56 pm
C’mon, folks. Chipper’s a better prospect at SS than Martin. Give it a rest.
@___ISH___
December 6th, 2011
8:58 pm
This Marlins shopping spree is downright depressing.. that is all.
Leftrecursion
December 6th, 2011
9:03 pm
I wouldn’t mind them trading for Chris Coughlin for LF
justin
December 6th, 2011
9:03 pm
Corner Outfielder with some pop? Hmmm. I got it! trade for Hunter Pence! Wait…..We let our Div Rival get him? Clearly a major mistake by Braves not acuiring him before the July 31st trade deadline
David O'Brien
December 6th, 2011
9:04 pm
Also, if your wondering about a Braves, Rick Camp reunion, don’t bank on it. Cause Rick is in jail. And he is like 60-years-old. These, plus other obvious musings, to come.
Seattle Braves
December 6th, 2011
9:04 pm
In reality you need a good SS and 2nd baseman. Most hit groundes are to these two players. Communication is key, habbits, atletic, and mobility are what your looking for. I say let Pastornicky start and sign Edgar or Wilson has a Backup tutor.
This would mean that either Prado is traded of put back into LF and 3B back up. Which I agree with. I would like to land a big Bat like Upton or Rameriz but thats not the reality of things. I do however see the Braves adding some more depth to the Bullpen to aid Venters, Kimbrel, and O Flaherty. Braves not need to make a big splash, they have to resign McCann and Bourne or lose them to FA.
Braves could get some extra spending if they wanted too, but thats not they way the money making formula is built with the front office and Liberty Media. They like doing what is neccessary to put out a good team (not Great)to overcome adversity and hopefully make a deep run into the Playoffs. Until the formula changes, expect more rental veterans and 4th to 5th best option at cheap prices head to Atlanta.
nelson
December 6th, 2011
9:22 pm
i know it .. no hanley ,,, wren wake up !! sign jimmy rollins
Brownie
December 6th, 2011
9:29 pm
Don’t expect to see many big moves by Wren at this meeting, unlike previous years. I really can’t understand why they would be in a hurry to trade Prado – staph infection last year took away his year. But, attitude, effort, flexibility in playing positions, and clubhouse demeanor are all strong reasons to keep him. Plus, the Braves won’t get huge value in return. Finally, please give up on suggesting they move him to SS…..if he could play it a lick, the team would have already had him there.
Also, JJ needs to stay put – he’s too solid as a starter. His injuries have mostly been non-arm related: groin, knee, oblique. Different training could potentially eliminate much of those. On the other hand, I would be in favor of them trading Hanson if a decent deal could be worked out. His injuries ARE arm related, and with that throwing motion more are sure to come.
Bottom line with the Braves surround 2 points: until Liberty Media realizes the remainder of their tax credits and sells the team to an owner who will invest more heavily, Wren will have to operate as he has. Secondly, until Chipper Jones is retired ( and I hate to see it as I’ve always been a fan, but it is time) they won’t be able to settle certain field/batting positions or manage their payroll effectively.
nelson
December 6th, 2011
9:43 pm
braves zzzzzzzzzzzz
Beauvighn
December 6th, 2011
9:44 pm
I like jack wilson as a stopgap at SS if the young kid falters. Wilson was a good pick up near the end of the season and was a positive force in the clubhouse. No need to waste prado or JJ on a player that may not be beter than what we already have. Would Toronto possibly move bautista for the right mix of players. If so, he would be a great piece for LF
richie
December 6th, 2011
9:45 pm
Did the Marlins sign Reyes just to piss Ramriez off? hell i have a better chance at playing 3rd for the fish than Hanley does. He wont be a Marlin much longer. and the fish will soon regret giving reyes all that dough. maybe we will wrap ice with all that cash to go on his hammys that seems to tear….every year. I think Reyes is a fine player, when healthy, but not worth 106 mill.
Alaska Braves Fan
December 6th, 2011
9:46 pm
Isn’t it truly wonderful to be joyously alive and to be able to spend time jawboning (via the electron) about a GAME? I love the Braves, and I love watching each one of them play. I really want them to win, but almost all of them will make more money this year than I will have made in a lifetime! It’s fun; it’s entertainment. Don’t let it affect your overall enjoyment of the one life you have to live and savor.
ABF
ray
December 6th, 2011
9:46 pm
the problem is Wren’s flawed logic. if the Marlins and Phils are improved and are in your division, then you can’t assume that you will have the same number of wins with the same team as last year.
you play them head to head numerous times and this will lower your win total as well as cause you to lose ground to them in the standings.
you can’t come in 3rd in a division and win a wild card spot.
other than that, everything is just fine and dandy.
offering arbitration to Gonzalez would have resulted in either losing him to another club and gaining a comp pick or signing him to a 1 yr deal for a little more than they wanted. so what was the big problem ?
richie
December 6th, 2011
9:47 pm
The Braves should swing a deal to the White Sox for Carlos Quienton and Gordon Beckham. It would fill both our needs. The Chi Sox have made it clear they are re-building. Makes sense.
Tip-your-hat
December 6th, 2011
9:52 pm
So we are not pursuing Ramirez because we have a solid SS whose name is Pastornicky.
Nice!!
Brave New World
December 6th, 2011
9:52 pm
nelson December 6th, 2011 9:22 pm
i know it .. no hanley ,,, wren wake up !! sign jimmy rollins
Nelson: I don’t think it will happen, but I’m with you. This would be a great move for the Braves. They would get a Gold Glove shortstop with speed and a decent bat. Plus, Rollins is a leader. And, they would weaken the Phils. If the Phils had signed Reyes, Rollins would have been expendable, but now the Phils must sign Rollins.
JK
December 6th, 2011
9:53 pm
I for one am still focusing on the long term. We can win next year with what we have. We should still be seeking one SS as a bridge…maybe. Otherwise, we need to be looking for more elite youthful talent. Look at the age of our team as a whole. We need to keep building and use what we have.
Joe Nuxall
December 6th, 2011
9:54 pm
It almost seems certain that Frank will come home Friday empty handed. Waiting until some of the FA’s are signed might be the best option to make our trade bait worth more. I’m beginning to agree that we do need only a cheap back-up SS and let P’nicky begin the season at short. But filling the LF corner with a power hitter is now a glaring reality.
marktwain
December 6th, 2011
9:55 pm
Martin is a ballplayer. I could care less where they play him. All he does is hustle and take smart at bats. When the team flounders, its guys like him that keep the fans tuning in.
Joe Nuxall
December 6th, 2011
10:00 pm
The NL east is now where the power shift is coming. The Nats and Marlins are already on board reloading their teams. The Braves need to keep up. I really like Carlos Quentin. He has good numbers and would make a nice fit with the Braves.
Tip-your-hat to the Marlins
December 6th, 2011
10:07 pm
Wren always says as if Pastornicky could be a real answer for SS. But remember, he’s not an elite top prospect like Heyward and Freeman used to be.
To me, what Wren’s saying just sounds like… ‘we don’t need to sign a CF because we have Jordan Schafer.’
Letting a so-so prospect without any ML experience take the regular SS job??? It’s just ridiculous. Wren, are you sure you are dreaming of a team that can compete with PHI and the brand-new Miami?
Chipper
December 6th, 2011
10:10 pm
Martin Prado is the heart of the Braves team. Sure, that staph infection, not a baseball injury, busted his butt last season. Anyone who has ever suffered a case of staph knows it takes a while to fully recover from it. He should be fully recovered by this time and some team will reap the benefits of his play. It will be a shame if that team is not the Atlanta Braves.
Brave New World
December 6th, 2011
10:13 pm
Miami will not be a powerhouse unless they put together a decent starting rotation. Also, if they lose Hanley, they have done nothing but “tread water” signing Reyes – plus Reyes is injury-prone. Philly has one great starter in Halladay, and 2 very good starters in Lee and Hamels, but their line up is average at best.
Number 5#
December 6th, 2011
10:23 pm
Go Braves
Rafael
December 6th, 2011
10:33 pm
As a LIFELONG Brave’s fan, I CAN’T take this Liberty CHEAPIA era any more!!!!!!
I want to talk about “THE LETTER” sent by John Schuerholz to Brave’s fans apologizing for the Brave’s playoff collaspe and “exploring every avenue to improve the Braves.”
John Schuerholz, you should be ASHAMED OF YOURSELF and go to confession for sending out that blantant LIE and BALONEY letter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (or you should have included an “asterisk” in small print that stated Liberty CHEAPIA has given Frank Wren unlimited financial resources to improve the team as long as he DOES NOT exceed $2.36 – YES two dollars and thirty six cents).
Is IMPROVING the team signing a 33 year old Nick Punto to play SS with his ONE HR???!!! The Brave’s batting lineup is ALREADY offensively CHALLENGED and you want to add this bargain-basement light-hitting STIFF to our lineup???!!!!! Punto and “Double Play” Matt Diaz in the same batting order….. can you say TWO OUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is IMPROVING the team renting the first TRUE ALL-STAR leadoff hitter in Michael Bourn for ONE Year and letting him walk via free agency because Liberty CHEAPIA is TOO CHEAP to sign him (aka …. can you say Mark Texiera and J D Drew… there is historical precedent here).
Is IMPROVING the team obtaining an AFFORDABLE platoon corner OF so Matty Diaz (he rakes lefthanders you know) can get 300+ ABs in 2012??!!!!! Matt Diaz is the SAME BUM (and once again I quote the AJC) “managed to keep his sense of humor DESPITE the Brave’s Playoff collaspe.” Real funny Matt, do we want a no-talent BUM playing for us that thinks it’s FUNNY to lose????!!!! A career year for Matt Diaz is .240 BA with 6 HRs. Besides being a CLANK with the glove, WHY is Matt Diaz on a MLB roster????!!!!!! Frank Wren (firefrankwren.com) WON’T answer the previous question because Matty Diaz is “AFFORDABLE.”
Instead of trading for Jose Bautista, Eduardo Nunez, and Mason Williams this week, Sgt. Wren (”the GOOD soldier”) is going to bring us Nick “No Hit” Punto and Seth “can’t hit lefthanders” Smith.
Bautista would give us a REAL Starting righthanded power-hitting corner OF. Nunez would give us a young SS with an UPSIDE who can also play the OF. Mason Williams would give us our 5-tool CF of the future because Michael Bourn is HISTORY in the ATL (Liberty CHEAPIA and Scott “Lucifer” Boras DON’T play well together).
Frank, DON’T you get it…. Nick Punto may be AFFORDABLE but has NO UPSIDE and is a sure OUT (you can take your OPS “BS” and throw it in Lake Lanier).
As I said, the “LETTER” was nothing more than a huge LIE and HOAX… lipservice at best. THOU SHALT NOT LIE John Schuerholz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liberty CHEAPIA has turned what was going to be an exciting hot-stove offseason for me into disappointment and disdain. THANK YOU Liberty CHEAPIA… a MULTIBILLION dollar corporation (QVC is one of their holdings) that won’t spend a “dime” to improve the Braves in a divison that includes the Phillies and the Free-spending Marlins. Can you say 4th place for our Braves next year…. EVEN the Nationals spend money to improve their team.
Nick Punto, that CERTAINLY says it ALL about the BUDGET Liberty CHEAPIA gave Frank Wren to IMPROVE the team.
BravesDave
December 6th, 2011
10:36 pm
Clearly, if the Braves had a backup SS last season, they would have won the World Series. Thanks for reminding us, Frank Wren.
sad
December 6th, 2011
10:42 pm
Braves appear to be making no splash at all. At least talk of trades gives fans hope.
The team that finished the year was pittiful and now we say we are going to bring back the same crap minus gonzo and add a rookie.
I agree with Rafael. That letter sent to the fans as an apology was just lies. If this team fields in 2012 the same way then im done. I have no interest in sitting up at night to watch that bunch of losers.
@Fredo
December 6th, 2011
10:43 pm
Great piece, DOB. Seriously serious thanks. Could you put your sleuth suit on and ask around about a possible Braves, Chipper trade? Braves move to Las Vegas possible? Sleuth sloth slug with, wait for a dangle of a participle, an additional comma.
sad
December 6th, 2011
10:45 pm
Nate Mclouth back to the pirates…Ahhh where it all began. Good luck Nate.
ryan
December 6th, 2011
10:48 pm
I think we should just keep Prodo if there is a good solid cheap outfielder out there then lets get him Wren needs to stop waiting on something because if you blink all the best players will gone good GM’s don’t think that way .
TruthSeeker
December 6th, 2011
10:50 pm
Of course the Braves don’t want Hanley Ramirez. He’s an impact bat. Can’t have that in Atlanta.
sad
December 6th, 2011
10:51 pm
Yep. wren’s thought process is lets wait it out and see what happens. Meanwhile, the good players sign and if anything is left it is basement players.
By the way those New Marlins jerseys look like a Girls Softball Team…LOL
keepin
December 6th, 2011
10:55 pm
Enter your comments here
Negative Nancy
December 6th, 2011
10:59 pm
Fellow Braves Fans. Remember winning the division every year? Remember teams with guys like Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Justice, Andruw Jones, Javy, McGriff, Galaragga, Gant, and Pendleton? Now throw all those memories out the window. The new Braves will be a team of low cost, washed up hacks peppered with role players who never quite reached their potential. They’ll be led into battle with a manager who is still trying to finish his copy of “Baseball Managing for Dummies”. We will make the Pirates tradition look good. Wren and Liberty will kill baseball in Atlanta.
Disgruntled
December 6th, 2011
11:01 pm
Braves under Frank Wren: four seasons, one playoff appearance, zero postseason series victories.
Wren has does some nice things, but he should be on the hot seat. Most of his big splashes – Lowe, Kawakami, McLouth, Uggla – have been abject failures who crippled the team financially. Thankfully, only Uggla remains from that group. There should be no excuse now for Frank not to be able to put together a team good enough to get to the playoffs and win once they get there. Let’s see if he can deliver. If he can’t, we need to start looking for a new GM.
TK
December 6th, 2011
11:03 pm
To those clamoring for a Jimmy Rollins signing, ask yourself if you really want to be paying him for the next FIVE years when we have many younger and cheaper SS options. This isn’t fantasy baseball folks. Rollins, Fielder, Pujols , Wilson, etc aren’t good signings for anyone at the figures they are looking for. I would like to have Rollins for 2-3 years max but he’s looking for five years. No way should any team sign him for five years. Pujols is about to sign a 10 year contract with a team. Does anyone on the blog want to be paying a 42 year old Albert $22-$25M a year at that age? People on the blog gripe about Chipper’s current age and salary these day. It could be twice as worse from a salary standpoint with Albert.
Braves20
December 6th, 2011
11:15 pm
Corner Outfielder with some pop? Hmmm. I got it! trade for Hunter Pence! Wait…..We let our Div Rival get him? Clearly a major mistake by Braves not acuiring him before the July 31st trade deadline
AMEN!
Simpson's Homer
December 6th, 2011
11:18 pm
Dave, is there any chance that you could ban any further asking of this question?!!?!?!?
“What about moving Martin Prado to SS??”
He played fewer than 10 games at SS in his entire minor league career. Who would think that he has the combination of range and throwing arm to play SS at the major league level? (not to mention the unfairness of jerking Prado around by making him adjust to a 3rd major league position).
I suppose I could wish for some form of ETERNAL ban by executive decree. If not, maybe you could have the question (and answer) permanently added to the Braves section template for the AJC site. It’s starting to bug me like the omnipresent question about the infeld fly rule that drove Skip Carey nuts……….! GO BRAVES!!!
Steve
December 6th, 2011
11:18 pm
Looks like Frank Wren is aiming for third place in the division. Philadelphia and Miami have moved ahead. I thought the Braves were looking to appease the fans after last years collapse. Guess I was wrong.
Largo
December 6th, 2011
11:19 pm
Good pitching beats good hitting. I keep hearing that. Then how did the braves go 8-18 last year and lose a 10 1/2 game lead. It’s because they don’t have a stopper on the club… plus even with good pitching you still need SOME KIND OF OFFENSE TO WIN. Braves offense has been BAD for the last couple of years. Now after the big talk from Schuerholz at the end of the season about making the braves a better team, Wren is looking for a backup shortstop….for a year. Wow! That should improve the offense…(Laugh) Also, he indicates fielding the same team as last year is not impossible. Damn it, we need some significant changes or we’ll end up fourth or even last in the division.
rainman34
December 6th, 2011
11:19 pm
The big thing to remember is we have bourn for the whole year. That alone will make us much better. Our bull pin is great and our rotation no matter which five is in it will be top five in the nl. It all comes down to Jason Heyward being what I think he is and that is one of the top players in the game. If that happens and we get 340 obp and say 25 steals out of short. We will be right back at the top for the east or at least the wild card. Glass half full!!!!
Mister Frisky
December 6th, 2011
11:29 pm
As our once proud Bravos sink into the abyss,there is Frank Wren aka Richard Inhand doing absolutely nothing.If it was just one position that was a problem I could accept that.The fact that there is no offense from SS,RF and LF and this tool sits on his fat keester looking for a has been or never was is effin heartbreaking.
1995 was 16 years ago
December 6th, 2011
11:30 pm
The Braves aren’t committed to winning. If they were, they would have fired these twin doofuses, Frankie and Fredi, after the worst collapse in National League history. And then they’re going to insult the fans by running what’s essentially the same group of chokers back out there in 2012? Unreal.
Mister Frisky
December 6th, 2011
11:32 pm
Of course Wren won’t pursue Hanley.Why would you want someone that’s better than every player you already have.
Braves Fan Trapped behind Philly Lines
December 6th, 2011
11:33 pm
Wow, I thought there would be more news or rumors by now. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Wake me up around spring training
Kevin
December 6th, 2011
11:55 pm
This management can’t be serious…Not going to pursue Hanley because they have faith in Pastornicky. Come on guys if you can get Hanley you go after him. Give Pastornicky another year in the minors to develop and then you still have 2 years left with Hanley. You could then try Pastornicky at 3B when Chipper retires an then move him back to SS when Hanley’s contract is up.
Another year of wishing we had an owner that wasn’t just a company that doesn’t care about the product.
Mister Frisky
December 7th, 2011
12:01 am
Simpsons Homer I agree Prado at short is a joke.Only thing worse than that is all the mock line ups of players that will never be Braves.
Bill
December 7th, 2011
12:05 am
I believe everything Wren said has been said three are four times. Really Frank can you say something new? All teams are making moves to improve but Braves. If Braves stand pat..they will never make play-offs and fans will stay home. Bet on it.
MBrave
December 7th, 2011
12:23 am
Sounds like we want a SS with high levels of literacy. Wren says he must be capable of spelling “Pastornicky.”
And that ain’t easy.
20 out
December 7th, 2011
12:53 am
I hope to god that this looking for a “traditional backup middle infielder” is a smokescreen of some deal going down. All this talk of making the team better from Wren and then he says they might go with a kid with no experience. WTF?
Stanco
December 7th, 2011
1:14 am
Soooo disappointing to read Wren’s “plan”!! If he brings back basicly the same team in 2012……and that includes bringing back Matt Diaz (and that highly productive platoon we have had in left field the last 4 or 5 years) who could not get, or earn, playing time when with the Pirates in 2011……I hope Wren and Liberty Media see the worst collapse in…ATTENDANCE…as never seen before!!!!!!
Joey Paden
December 7th, 2011
1:24 am
Thanks for the blog Dave. Wish there was better news from the winter meetings. I agree totally with Rafael. John how could you even send a letter like that to the fans? And Frank I would have guessed no moves at all. I thought I heard you say that you wanted a lineup pitchers fear to pitch too. Do you think they are going to fear this lineup? The same one from last year? The one who fell 10 1/2 games when they had that as a lead? Give me a break. If you want the fans to come you have to sign the right players. And tell Liberty to RAISE THE PAYROLL PLEASE! Quit saving the money for yourselves!
Joey Paden
December 7th, 2011
1:26 am
I am sorry that I feel this way but I am tired of feeling like Cubs fans feel. Always saying maybe next year.
Joey Paden
December 7th, 2011
1:27 am
Frank build the right team and fans will come.
Rey
December 7th, 2011
1:50 am
The BRAVES are cheap. They’re always looking through the scrap heaps for a washed up player past his prime. Kudos on the Bourne deal. That was a real shocker, now let’s sign that man to a long term deal.
Ozzie
December 7th, 2011
2:45 am
I love all this!! It is a beautiful thing to see someone you dislike write his own epitaph. Wren and JS are so full of it, really just sad.
This team needs a enema and we have 10 months til it comes. They have more or less sucked as a team since 2000 so 10 more months is nothing.
Wren, JS and Fredi will be fired before Columbus Day 2012. Mark it down.
Liberty will cut payroll when the are clearly out of it by July 1 and then sell the team.
Ozzie
December 7th, 2011
2:54 am
Here is an easy if then line of questioning someone should as Wren or JS during these softball press sessions.
1. Is Pastornicky in the same class as Heyward or Frenchie when they were in AA/AAA?
2. No f-ing way you say. hmmmm
3. How did Heyward and Frenchie do in the majors against ML pitching?
4. They started off good but then fell apart quite unexpectedly you say?
5. So you are telling me then a guy who had less upside and natural skill than those two ballplayers is going to be your starting SS (which btw is a much harder position to play) and do better than them as a rookie and that your insurance is some 1-2mm 30 something bench player SS?
6. Ah yes that is pretty much it
7. Ok this concludes our interview. Good luck with those season ticket sales.
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2011
2:57 am
Lets see here, how do the Braves have any chance next season with all these question marks? The entire starting pitching staff has a huge ? hanging over their heads.
Hudson (Injury concern)
Jurrgens (Injury concern)
Hanson (Injury concern)
Beachy (Can’t pitch more than 5 innings without wearing down due to pitch count)
Minor, Delgado, Teheran (Very little big league experience)
Which then puts a big ? mark over the bullpen. If all of the starters miss time, fade, or just struggle, the bullpen will be over used once again and will falter down the stretch.
Now on to the offense. The only players that I will say will be good to go are Freeman, Mac, and Bourne. The others have questions hanging over their heads as well.
Uggla (Will he struggle for most of the season again?)
Pastornicky (How will he fare with no big league experience?)
Chipper ( How many games will the old man play, and at what level?)
Heyward ( Will he return to form, or have another season like last year?)
Prado (If he is still here, or whoever will be the LF next season)
Folks, when we are seeing the Marlins doing what they are doing, knowing the Phillies will be a very solid team, The Nats are a young and very promising team, and even the Mets are making much more noise in free agency than the Braves are, they will be lucky to finish 4th in the division.
That is what happens when you sit on your hands and do absolutely nothing like the Braves are doing. So you are going to counter the Marlins signing Reyes with sticking in a rookie SS with no big league experience who is said to have shaky defense (Pastornicky) and expect to hang with that team? That is not even taking into consideration that the Marlins very well could add the most dangerous hitter in all of baseball by tomorrow to their lineup. It really is a sad, sad time to be a Braves fan. If Frank Wren and company really believe that this team will contend next season, they should be fired and start working at McDonalds. Seriously, this team has way to many question marks hanging over their heads to even be mentioned in the same category as the other teams in this division.
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2011
3:07 am
Not to mention that the Braves had the worse collapse in NL history in the month of September last year, and are going into next season with virtually the same team except Chipper is a year older, and a rookie will be starting at SS.
Do the Braves really expect to sell out games? I sincerely hope not. Winning puts fans into the seats, what the Marlins are doing is what puts fans in the seats, sitting by doing nothing doesn’t cut in Wren, sorry. I really hope the scene at Turner Field next season mimics that of the Marlins the past few years. All the Braves are showing their fans is that they are not committed to winning, therefore I am not committed to this team. A fan yes, but next season I am not going to the point of spending big money on this team, my loyalty is waning a bit because of their approach. I am not a fan of any team to just call myself a fan, I as a fan demand that the teams I cheer for contend every year, Its what we all spend money every year to see, not this crap we are watching now.
dap01
December 7th, 2011
3:33 am
All the FW double speak and the reporting of the Braves leaves little to hope for. There is no talk of improving the outfield. There is no talk of improving the soon to be worn out relief pitching. There is no talk of anything except finding a BACKUP SS. A backup SS and a AA SS does not push a non playoff team over the top, in the same division as Wash, Philly and Florida. The other teams want to win. The Braves want to exist.
Hopefully FW has something up his sleeve other than to wait till Monday to go over the scrap heap.
Ben
December 7th, 2011
3:43 am
Anyone that thinks Hanley Ramirez is a good fit for the Braves, doesn’t watch the Braves. He probably won’t even be a starter in 3 years. The last couple of years really show how fast the wheels are coming off that wagon.
The worst thing that can happen right now for the Braves, is Florida getting Pujols. That lineup would be so stacked, and the pitchers aren’t bad either. I think they potentially claim the Phillies #1 spot. So then we’re fighting for 3rd in the division against the nats, and that will suck. It’s becoming really hard to compete in this division with $90 million to spend.
We may have to go with what we have, and just wait for the right pieces to become available in the 2nd half of 2012. If we can get somebody fast to go along with Bourn, that would a great start. We made teams look so bad on defense when we had Bourn and Constanza in the lineup. Throw in Pastornicky’s speed, and you’ve got a team with the new fast identity we’re looking for.
I don’t think we should give up Prado anytime soon. Jurrjens would bring us the best return, and we’d be dealing from a position of strength. We don’t have anybody like Prado in our system. So my suggestion is trade Jurrjens for an affordable speedy/high average OF+prospect. BJ Upton comes to mind, but I’d hope we could do a little better than him honestly.
Stinger2
December 7th, 2011
5:10 am
The Braves need to do something to improve their chances
of being competitive in the NL East. If they do not, I believe they could finish fourth or last in 2012.
They have saved 9 million in payroll by dumping KK and Lowe. They need to use it for a power hitting corner OF.
slydog
December 7th, 2011
5:36 am
The Braves are stupid as an organization and stuck in their old ways. Every other organization has fresh blood from the top (owners) down to the bottom. Atlanta fans, buy your tickets but do not expect anything great from any Braves team until 1. New ownership 2. New leadership in the front office, starting with a new team president. 3. A willingness to change this button down culture. The St. Louis Cardinals had absolutely no business winning the World Series last year versus the Braves, especially with Philly out of the way. Now the Chicago Cubs are actually in a better position to win.
slydog
December 7th, 2011
5:41 am
We can’t get Pujols, we can’t get Fielder, Reyes was never an option (he would disrupt the culture, figure that one out), and now you can completely cross out Hanley Ramirez? Are you kidding me? H. Ramirez had no reason to play hard in Florida. Talented and spoiled players do that on sorry teams. Apparently, he was not the only Marlin who quit during games. They sucked. Adding Hanley to this team would turn this franchise around from day one. And we all know it. Just like any other professional sport: You need PLAYERS to win. And we have almost no star or one in the making.
slydog
December 7th, 2011
5:45 am
@Ben
I have watched the Braves play. They have a lack of talent as far as hitting. The pitchers first strategy is not working and is old. Hanley Ramirez would be their most talented player, even in a quitting mode, by miles. Half of Ramirez’s effort is better than what the Braves have now. The Braves don’t want controversy, they just want a quiet little clubhouse. Chipper would straighten out Ramirez, he would get a bigger contract, and play for a winning franchise, plus live in Atlanta. That’s incentive enough.
Nitro
December 7th, 2011
5:47 am
It cracks me up to watch all of these people bashing on Pastornicky because he doesn’t have any major league experience…probably the same folks who were dead-set against giving the starting job at 1st to Freeman last year, but look how that turned out. I think the brain trust of the Braves have a pretty good eye for minor league talent. That being said, I thought they should should have brought the kid up late last season to let him get his feet wet. We were getting NO production from the position, and he was tearing it up in the minors. As for the Jordan Schafer reference…that was all wasted talent…he could have, and should have been an elite center fielder/leadoff type, but apparently he was missing something either between the ears, or had no heart!
Nitro
December 7th, 2011
6:01 am
should should…WTF…LOL
I even proof-read that post before submitting! Sometimes, no matter how hard you try…you still look like you failed third grade grammer!!!
wjones
December 7th, 2011
6:21 am
“Joey Paden
December 7th, 2011
1:26 am
I am sorry that I feel this way but I am tired of feeling like Cubs fans feel. Always saying maybe next year.”
If I were a Cubs fan, I would be ripping you a new one. Your sense of entitlement is a bit embarrasing. You know how bad it is to be a Cubs fan?
1. The last time the Cubs were in a World Series, Harry Truman was President. Neither Obama nor Clinton had been born, and W was a toddler. Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Cy Young were still living. The Dodgers were in Brooklyn, the Giants in New York, the Braves in BOSTON, and not only were the Athletics still in Philadelphia, but Connie Mack was still managing them! There was no TV, the World Series was just on radio, like every other game.
2. The last time the Cubs actually won a World Series, several Presdients had yet to be born–Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Reagan–who are now dead, in Kennedy’s case long before divisional play began. Honus Wagner and Nap Lajoie were the big stars, but young Ty Cobb was catching up with them. Shoeless Joe Jackson had yet to play in the majors, and our President was Roosevelt–Teddy Roosevelt.
3. The Cubs all-time hit leader, and their winningest manager are the same person–Cap Anson. He retired both as a player and manager during the William McKinley administration, before the invention of the automoble or the airplane.
Trying to compare being a Braves fan with being a Cubs fan is just silly, and please don’t say something like that in front of a Cubs fan if you want to keep your teeth.
old man
December 7th, 2011
6:41 am
I’m going back to the Daily Blog. This place is an insane asylum.
old timer
December 7th, 2011
6:43 am
Defense is the most important thing at short. Our strength is pitching and the weakness is the wrong mix with the starting 8. The defense is so-so and we don’t have near enough speed and power. Our only hope is that Heyward develops into the hitter everyone expected, Freeman progresses and the pitchers stay healthy. Whatever we can obtain at these winter meetings won’t be enough otherwise.
chris
December 7th, 2011
7:00 am
seth smith a good choice from colorado…but then since wren is so content let’s just bring back rafael rameriez from the 80s to be our backup shortstop since we want to not spend any money on that position over the next few years…CLEAN the foundation off, start over and start FRESH in 2012. This stop gap player experiment of the 2000-2011 decade has not worked. GET SOME PLAYERS…..at least show SOME interest in these free agents. Hanly would be a great bat to have in the middle of an ANEMIC lineup…but then again W(We) R(Resolve) E(Everything) N(Null) and void when it comes to really being a player in the NL East in 2012 says “we are only looking to tweek” TWEEK on morons…as a 30 plus year Braves fan this is more painful to watch than the horrible teams of the 70s..at least then there was no commitment to winning and you expected it yearly…this latest version puts on this front they are and they make no effort to really do that….FRUSTRATING.
old man
December 7th, 2011
7:20 am
At the end of the day, Wren will trade any number of people if he gets a deal which is for fair value, and improves the team. Almost always it is a deal which seems to help both teams. And at least 49% of the fans will say Wren is an idiot. If the deal ends up being a bust, that will go to 95%. And if the deal results in a World Series win, only 5% will remember it was a great trade.
If no reasonable deal offers itself, Wren will go with JJ and Prado–not a bad fallback position. And 99% of the fans will say he is an idiot and Liberty is cheap. And if we then to on to win the World Series with the players on hand, no one will give Wren credit for saying no to crappy offers this Winter.
All you can do is make a list of valuable players whose departure impacts us the least, try to fill your obvious gaps with a fair deal, and if you can’t, move on.
Florida Guy
December 7th, 2011
8:10 am
Once again we sit on the sidelines on our hands while other teams improve themselves—and why??? Because spending for a winning baseball team does not fit into Libery Media’s profit projections. WE NEED A HUMAN OWNER TO RUN THIS FRANCHISE, NOT A COLORADO CABLE COMPANY. Wren, quit insulting our intelligence by saying that the braves are “comfortable” fielding a team of rookies and players who are past their prime. We know what’s up buddy!
J-MAN
December 7th, 2011
8:12 am
@ old man, Anyone can throw up numbers, 75 % of people know that lol
Tommy
December 7th, 2011
8:21 am
The Braves as currently constituted have too many “ifs” to be counted on as a contender.. . .
If Hudson stays healthy. .
If Hanson’s shoulder is OK. . .
If Jurrjens can stay healthy. . .
If Chipper can play 145 games
If Heyward can turn it around
That’s too much that needs to go right to make a run. Something is going to go wrong.
The bottom line is that we will not be serious contenders again until Chipper retires. He has a huge salary, his skills are rapidly declining, and you cannot count on him to play more than 3/4 of the season. His situation screws up the entire roster, because it affects the construction of the outfield and bench. You need an everyday player that can move to third when he gets hurt, and you need a bench guy that can play everyday and not kill the offense. It makes a mess of the entire team.
Cal Ripken and the Orioles are a cautionary tale. Ripken was done by about 1997, but the O’s didn’t have the guts to tell him it was time to go, and the entire organization slowly rotted around him. The same thing could happen here.
Manny
December 7th, 2011
8:23 am
Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like the Braves are the league’s outsourced farm club. It’s like they come up from our system, build up into a good ballplayer and then systematically shipped to other clubs across the country for those teams to win.
I just wish we can coalesce around a group of players.
Ted
December 7th, 2011
8:31 am
sad and Rafael are correct – bringing back the same team sans a rookie SS and rookie 5th SP is simply telling the fans “we don’t care”.
Wren does not need to “wheel and deal”, per se. But the Phillies are not letting their team slide, Miami is making their team better and WAS is doing the same (they get Strasburg). Sitting still while other teams pass you is NOT the way to make the playoffs – unles Wren et al. simply don’t have that goal. If so, then be honest with the fans and let them know.
Right now, it seems as if we’re told that the Braves “hope” Heyward will bounce back, “hope” Chipper plays 120 games, “hope” Pastornicky can be at least as good as AlGonz, “hope” Prado bounces back, “hope” Hanson, Hudson and Jurrjens are all healthy, “hope” the bullpen shows no ill-effects from the abuse in 2011, “hope” McCann is fully recovered, “hope” Uggla’s 1st 2 months were an aberration and not pre-cursor for a 33 y.o. and so on. That sure is a lot of “hope”. Now, some of it will happen. Some won’t. And some new things will happen (as they do EVERY year with EVERY team).
But stating that this team, as constructed, is “good enough” simply won’t cut it – it obviously wasn’t in 2011 and won’t be in 2012. To not try is simply a slap in the face to all fans.
Homo the Brave
December 7th, 2011
8:45 am
Bring back Edgar Renteria.
bill
December 7th, 2011
8:45 am
and i hop[e we get a new owner and i hope we fire both wren and fredi g– lot of hope needed
longtimefan
December 7th, 2011
8:49 am
Reading many of the ill-informed posts and out right rants (Rafael) reminds me why I have largely quit reading the AJC blogs regarding the Braves. Point- Prado does not have the skill set to play Major League SS. It requires a range and arm he does not possess. Hanley Ramirez is 1) overpaid the next 3 years, 2) has declined offensively the last several years 3) is a potential cancer on a team with good chemistry-and yes it does matter and 4) would block the progress of 2 prospects likely major league ready in the next year who will provide several years of minimum salary at a skill position, enabling the Braves to keep pending free agents at other positions.
Those who claim Wren has done a poor job as GM either expect perfection or are ignorant about baseball. Dissect almost any other team and show me a GM who hasn’t made some decisions regarding trading away talent or giving long term contracts with poor results. Do your homework. Case in point- several years ago many on this blog were on Wren for not signing Jason Bay. How’s that working out for you? Lowe was terrible last year but the first 2 yaers he was a serviceable, innings-eating, middle of the rotation pitcher starter who won 15 games. Wren inherited a shambles of a starting staff and he had to find some bodies to do the work. He sold high on Vasquez and got Vizciano-a potential future star. Check out Vasquez performance the last couple years-who would you rather have? Uggla for Infante? Infante is a good player but he is a utility guy. Uggla has hit more HR the last 6 years than any righthanded bat not named Pujols. And he’s a middle infielder. Probably Wren’s best trades are the ones he hasn’t made. The baseball experts, obviously not the geniuses on this blog, feel the Braves have some of the best young talent in MLB and could make a run at the WS next year with what they have now. Wren will add a piece or two. He is playing his cards close to his vest. The Braves have what other teams want- young affordable good starting pitching and a proven second baseman with some pop. I don’t know what you guys do for a living-slinging burgers, selling tools at Lowes, living in Mom’s basement- but I’m willing to bet Frank Wren who is an experienced MLB GM with inside info on the team and players, is a whole lot better at this chess match than you guys.
longtimefan
December 7th, 2011
8:54 am
BTW, I agree with the old man’s comment. A little wisdom usually comes with age.
GaryinBham
December 7th, 2011
9:01 am
I would hope to keep both Martin and Jair and add a couple of free agents. This team was not healthy enough at the same time last year to know what they can do. Why would you trade a gamer who can hit, plays team ball and hustles all the time and a proven pitcher, both outstanding teammates for some unknowns? This team gets better by the mere maturing of its young players. I’d love to see Willingham here, a right-handed bat, a solid vet backup at short like Jack Wilson, and bring on the youth.
truebluebravesfan
December 7th, 2011
9:01 am
Man Im tired of reading the complaining on this blog.
Lets looke position by position shall we
1st – Can we agree that Freeman is solid and will only get better
2nd – Ugla isn’t going anywhere…Hopefully he will start stronger
3rd – Chipper will retire a Brave…get over it
Catcher – McCann is solid….even with his late season slump his season was better than almost every other MLB catcher
CF – Micheal Bourne will be nice to have for the whole season….hopefully longer but Boras is his agent
RF – You can’t give up on Heyward yet…..his rookie year was just too good to overlook
Closer – You have the reigning rookie of the year
Bullpen – Venters, OFlaherty and Medlin will be awesome..need to also assume Viscaino will be in there.
That really only leaves questions at SS and LF…..I personally would prefer we keep Prado and find a solid Lefty to back him up (but I could also live with Hinske as his backup in a pinch)
SS……I don’t want an enigmatic Hanley Ramirez or an over the hill Jimmy Rollins…..who else out there is any better?
I personally don’t see any reason to trade for pitching if Hanson, Hudson, and Jurrgens bounces back from injury(Of course thats a big if)….If they don’t Delgado, Teheran, Medlin, Viscaino, Gilmartin could probably pick up the slack. Beachy was fine as a 4 or 5 last year…in fact he may be more like a 2 or 3.
So geez people get a grip and think before you lash out.
Fols
December 7th, 2011
9:21 am
Rookie SS, another Platoon in LF (cause everyone loves the platoon) while Heyward works out his problems in RF. Sure exciting times, no wonder the only real rumor is more bullpen help, we’ll need it because we aren’t scoring runs.
Last year was fun but i’m not planning my vacation around a Braves series this summer!
That’s now MORE than a third of the batting order if we follow this path. Didn’t we suffer through enough of that last season? How is that any different than Heyward/Gonzo/Pitcher?
Seth/Heyward/rookie/pitcher
No way we hang with the big boys. I’d rather see Prado and Gonzo back in the line-up cause they are almost a promise to out perform last year.
Please.
Dent
December 7th, 2011
9:29 am
Truebluebravesfan…Well done. One very interesting fact from yesterdays interviews: Peter Gammons stating he felt Heyward would have a monster year as a result of being over his shoulder injury. He stated the injury was worse than portrayed. I agree.
PMC
December 7th, 2011
9:30 am
Hanley has been getting plump the last couple of years and dogging it a bit, but that said…
This is the Braves, we wouldn’t sign a guy that’s really talented if he’s got any kind of attitude. We’d rather have some incredibly old washed up guy that is a good “locker room” guy than a guy that could actually hit over 300 with 35hrs and 100+ rbis. 95 games is the target remember, not actually winning anything.
PMC
December 7th, 2011
9:32 am
This season will be like the last several.
Wondering how the heck we went into a season thinking this lineup could hit and score runs.
extremus
December 7th, 2011
9:32 am
Appeasing Liberty Media’s shareholders (not to mention their CEO, who got paid more than the entire Braves roster last year) is obviously FAR more important in the big picture than appeasing disgruntled Braves fans who live 2,000 miles away.
Let’s see how fast Liberty Media dumps the team once they’re done with the tax write-off and Turner Field looks more akin to SunLife Stadium from all the empty seats. MAYBE then they’ll get an ownership that gives a care.
Loyal Fan
December 7th, 2011
9:37 am
Thank you truebravesfan . . . its about time someone gave a good recap. I am so tired of hearing these clueless fans hating on Wren and our team, who obviously know nothing. On a whole different note, you want better attendance, make a marta stop that goes straight to the stadium/not a pain in the @ss trip where you have to walk thru underground atlanta and then get on a bus to take over to the stadium. I really didn’t want to go into detail, but once again, good recap truebravesfan.
Fastball
December 7th, 2011
9:42 am
Another Wren mistake. First Gonzales, then Parrish, now expecting Pastokniky to play short next year. Not only will he not play next year, but he’ll never play short. Wait and see. Folks, the Braves are in trouble with this management team.
Don
December 7th, 2011
9:44 am
pretend — Pretend — PRETEND —— Pretend all you want, but it does not change the fact that the Braves have a huge problem that is being IGNORED that OVERIDES all their other problems and makes EVERYTHING ELSE MEANINGLESS. Unless this is corrected, nothing else (how good the hitting is, how good the defense is, how good everyting else is – will make no difference. There is no way that they can build a winning team – as long as they continue with the situation where almost all of their Starting Pitchers are becomming injured. There are just not that many prospects who will really become great pitchers. Right now FOUR of their five Starters are coming off injuries – three of them (JJ, Hanson, and Medlin) are young, already proven talents, who could have formed the core of a great rotation for years to come. With these injuries, they may NEVER come back and really be great. This is a TREMENDOUS LOSS for the Braves. Stop and count the total number of Starting Pitchers that the Braves have had in the 6 or 7 years since Leo left as the Pitching Coach (counting only those who were in the rotation for a reasonable length of time) — Then count how many of those have not been injured. As long as this INJURY MILL for pitchers continues, you can forget everything else and forget about the Braves developing another winning team.
bvillebaron
December 7th, 2011
9:55 am
Nice to see all the panic posts on here. Last I checked the season didn’t start until the end of March or the beginning of April. Are any of you arrmchair GMs aware that this is December 7th?
nelson
December 7th, 2011
10:00 am
seth smith ? renteria ?? 2012 : playoffs? ?? playoffs ????
JD
December 7th, 2011
10:01 am
FYI David, Rick Camp is not in jail, out since 2008.
jim
December 7th, 2011
10:01 am
If those questioning Wren were in his position, with his payroll, and were told that Simmons was a year and a half away from the majors and was better than any of the currently available shortstops except for posssibly Jimmy Rollins (who would be in his mid thirties then and would need a 4+ year contract to sign and would be expensive) and that Pastornicky might be as good all around as Gonzo or Furcal or some of the other older lesser lights that are available for a higher price, would you set a high priority on getting an experienced SS for 2012? Would a Furcal or worse at SS make the Braves any more likely to even make the playoffs against the Phillies, revamped Marlins, rising Nats and the collection of other playoff contenders like the Cards, Brewers, Reds, DBacks, Giants, and Dodgers? As attested by the interest from other good teams like the Cards and Giants, Gonzo is the cream of the available SS pack this year after the much more expensive choices of Reyes and Rollings. One of the Gonzo also-rans will not make the team any more competetive than a Pastornicky + a Wilson-type backup in 2012. I think Wren is much more a realist about the 2012 Braves than most people on this blog, and his setting his sights on 2013 aned beyond when the team should be much more competetive.
I hope DOB is saving some of these anti-Heyward posts so that he can repost them next season after Heyward strarts to display his potential and the same people dumping on him now start jumping anew on his bandwagon.
Go Go you Pilots
December 7th, 2011
10:01 am
Frank Wren GM of Braves at winter meetings sittin at McDonalds eattin a Big Mac and sits at Pool Burpin after….while Prince fielder is goin sign with Marlins n Pujois with cubs….what a GM we have and freddie Gonz will just tip his cap again as we watch marlins make wildcard under Ozzie G. get Miami in Playoffs while we watch them Jump on are field cebratein ….Wren be Pickin his Nose with Bobby cox near him.
ricardus
December 7th, 2011
10:02 am
Two players the Braves do not need…Hanley Ramirez and Jo-Jo Reyes. Both are not professional ballplayers but troublemakers. Their hair is the clue. There would be no dreadlocks on my team!
nelson
December 7th, 2011
10:14 am
im tired.. last ws 1995 . …. we will leave these negotiations without… anything. it’s a shame, a mockery of us all fans always support this team and how we get paid? Liberty Media is a Coorporación residing in Colorado! billionaires and just invest 90 million in the braves? Coorporación of crap, like the braves have fallen so low, as you may have not have an owner,? friends! we’re screwed, in 2012 we will see the same, the braves to 3rd place and maybe, maybe we will win the wild card, maybe .. but I doubt it. I am disappointed and thought it pay for the baseball season but have decided not to. with wren and Liberty Media are screwed. came to nothing.
Braves Seek Backup Shortstop | Forex News
December 7th, 2011
10:14 am
[...] Braves would not be a suitor for Hanley Ramirez if the Marlins decide to trade him, reports David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. They’ve got Tyler Pastornicky penciled into the starting shortstop role for 2012, though [...]
jim
December 7th, 2011
10:16 am
Don,
Give it a rest. Check back during the Leo tenure and see that Avery’s career was shortened by arm injuries. Smoltz has had a couple of surgeries on his elbow during the Leo years. Juan Berrenguer — arm injury, Wohlers — arm injury, Pedro Borbon Jr — arm injury, Mike Stanton — arm injury, Odalis Perez — arm injury. I think Leo wass still the coach when Hampton suffered the original arm injury.
Maddux and Glavine did not put a lot of strain on their arms and were among the lucky few to not suffer a significant injury during their peak years. Look at the other teams as well, Dice K, Lester, Beckett — all out or slowed by arm injuries last year. Santana, Wainwright, Carpenter (2 years ago), Webb, Peavy, Hughes, … Arm injuries are an unfortunate aspect of the sport, and not something unique to the post-Leo Braves. Leo probably deserves some credit for the success of the 1990’s Braves rotation, but he had the one ingredient that any successful pitching coach must have — good pitchers. Unfortunately for him, that ingredient was missing during his brief tenure in Baltimore, and the health of that staff was not noticeably better than others (Bedard?)
UGADawg16
December 7th, 2011
10:19 am
DOB – Any chance that Omar Infante has become expendable now that the Marlins signed Reyes?
dons
December 7th, 2011
10:25 am
Well stated by Brownie
El Bravo
December 7th, 2011
10:25 am
I don’t think people realize how much better our team will be next year without changing a thing:
Bourn will hit lead off for the whole year.
Prado will go back to being the player he has always been sans freak injuries and infections.
Chipper will be a solid player for 115 games.
McCann will go back to raking.
Uggla will have a better first half (it can not be any worse).
Freeman has too sweet a swing and will improve.
Pastornicki has hit at every level and will be an average SS in the Majors.
Heyward has way too much talent and will improve.
Our starting pitching is loaded with a ton of options in case of injury.
Our pen is going to be the best in the Majors with some of the rookies joining it, plus Medlen.
Making a move for the sake of making a move right now would jeopardize the future of this franchise. Wren is taking the correct approach by being patient. The value for Prado and Jurjens will go up the closer we get to opening day.
Brave New World
December 7th, 2011
10:26 am
McClouth back to Pittsburgh? Good for him. Without the pressure of high expectations, he will probably “revert” to being a solid player.
3rd Place Guaranteed !
December 7th, 2011
10:28 am
Why does Wren think this current roster of Braves can compete with the Phillies & Marlins ? The Braves are offensively challenged. With glaring holes in LF & SS and no word of trying to upgrade these positions with stars. Yeah, we get word of possibly signing Nick Punto. What’s he gonna do ? Hit .180 1 14 ? What a joke. Trade Jurrgens for Carlos Quentin. With Quentin’s bat the Braves can be competitive.
Brave New World
December 7th, 2011
10:28 am
El Bravo: How dare you “pollute” this blog with a positive attitude, support for the Braves, and common sense!
Mister Frisky
December 7th, 2011
10:30 am
Braves will do nothing as usual.This time though it will be different.After last years choke combined with the fact that three of the Braves division rivals are committed to winning the fans will certainly stay away from Turner Field this season.Rafael is right.To insult fans with that letter of apology then do absolutely nothing to improve the team in unforgivable and won’t be forgotten anytime soon.
Brave New World
December 7th, 2011
10:30 am
Phils have pitching, but no hitting. Marlins can hit, but have weak pitching.
3rd Place Guaranteed !
December 7th, 2011
10:31 am
With question marks about Chipper’s health,Prado’s ability to produce,Pastornicky’s ability to produce,and Heyward’s ability to produce how can Wren “feel good” about next year ? I feel shaky as hell.
3rd Place Guaranteed !
December 7th, 2011
10:34 am
I guess Victorino,Utley,Howard,Ibanez,Rollins can’t hit ?
When you score 12 runs per game like the Marlins will if they sign Pujols pitching doesn’t count as much.
Braves Fan in N.Y.
December 7th, 2011
10:41 am
So, if Pastornicky isn’t ready, Nick Punto could be our everyday SS? Yikes!
nelson
December 7th, 2011
10:46 am
Braves fans are tired of seeing a MEDIOCRE GM, a president who lies to his fans, some owners who are shi^&^*, we are really tired of the braves fans
Josh
December 7th, 2011
10:48 am
For the record, Miami hasn’t signed Pujols. Even if he does sign, they can’t pitch. They have Josh Johnson, that’s it. And he’s missed substantial time due to injury recently. And for those rushing Wren to make a move, look at what other teams have done. Nothing. There have been one or two signings and no trades of significance. Patience might be a good thing here.
STRETCH
December 7th, 2011
10:54 am
Nick Punto as a target by the Braves????
PMC
December 7th, 2011
10:57 am
For all the team “chemistry” Explain why they couldn’t hit in September?
SO they like each other awesome. Where are the results? They get paid money to play ball.
PMC
December 7th, 2011
10:58 am
I think Wren has done a fine job with what he’s got to work with, but we overvalue the heck out of the “talent” on this roster.
gt fan
December 7th, 2011
10:59 am
get rid of chipper he is the problem over paid and under delivered.
STRETCH
December 7th, 2011
11:01 am
Hopefully Chipper will be gone next season!
74bravesjersey
December 7th, 2011
11:03 am
Yes DOB; all the negativity on this blog is pretty thick, & you know what? I agree, because it’s obvious, the fans are sick & tired of the Braves Brass good o’l boy Bobby Cox protege’we’ll be just fine attitude,sweety-poopy we don’t need fire,passion,we’re professionals makes the true baseball fan want to throw up. It’s a Dang library out there because of the mindset of the organization that’s afraid of having a lil’ flair & fire in the game. To be aggresive making deals, to cause some excitement,man right now sitting on the hands is for DONKEYS,”everything rises & falls on leadership”. Hmmm, wonder who’ll resemble that statement in the Braves Brass. The brass is too scared to get us more offensive threats in the line-up(ala Carlos Quentin), to secure the linup with some masher’s that can go w/ our new hitting coaches to teach discipline to. Having disciplined threats in the lineup makes better clutch hits come our way instead against us during the great collapse.Somebody in the city of atl (powers to be) needs to tell AOL to release the team for an aggresive new owner who’ll do whatever it takes to make us championship caliber instead of resting on decent mediocrity. Braves Rise Up! of course if the other pro team could really live up to that motto.
Charles
December 7th, 2011
11:10 am
Let’s cut to the chase. The Philly and Marlin payroll will be the NL version of the Yankees and Red Sox — they are going to be the teams that will be picked at the top, no matter what the Braves do or don’t do. Liberty is not going to compete at that level. Thus, as I said in a post yesterday, Wren is probably doing the best he can with the hand he is dealt and given his success rate thus far doing little or nothing beyond getting the backup SS may be the best option. Trading JJ and/or Prado comes at great risk, as many posters have noted, and there is no guarantee with Wren’s touch that what we get will be what we think we are buying — Uggla wasted half a season and Bourn’s stats as a Brave were hardly what they were in Houston before he was acquired, without getting into the other Wren trade debacles – McClouth, Kawakami….
So while it is tempting to give up hope, and objectively that is certainly a viable emotion watching the events at the winter meetings, let’s PRAY AND HOPE that for once the Braves get lucky next year (for a change): our starting rotation survives an entire season without having 2 or 3 top starters on injured reserve in September, Bourn returns to Houston form, Chipper gives it his last hurrah and hits .300 over 130 games, Uggla shows up for a whole season, Pastornicky hits .220 and provides flawless defense at SS, McCann has a career year, and Heyward returns to rookie form. Hopefully all this additional offense and a healthy rotation will allow the bullpen to survive an entire season without running out of gas. More luck needed — the Phillies aren’t quite the same team without Ibanez and Rollins gets fat if they resign him and Papelbon needs a season to adjust to the NL and blows 7 or 8 saves. The Marlins don’t get Pujols and, even if they do, their questionable pitching staff makes the team reminiscent of the Rangers when Alex Rodgriguez was there with his fat contract. If 80% of this comes true, the Braves will be in the playoffs next year and maybe even win the division. Never forget the healing power of prayer. Keep the faith.
3rd Place Guaranteed !
December 7th, 2011
11:12 am
Excellent points 74jersey. The current hitting coaches WERE Carlos Quentin’s hitting coach so they know what he can do.
To watch your division rivals sign top players then watch your team do nothing is bad karma man…
phil
December 7th, 2011
11:13 am
What I don’t expect, and for good reason at this point, is a playoff appearance.
Fire FG!
phil
December 7th, 2011
11:16 am
PMC
December 7th, 2011
10:58 am
I think Wren has done a fine job with what he’s got to work with, but we overvalue the heck out of the “talent” on this roster.
*****************
I’m afraid you’re right….
Wayward? Talented? We were told he was and he has delivered next to nothing over 2 full seasons. I don’t expect much in 2012.
Prado? McCann? Bourne? Uggly? Same thing. Not expecting much other than a lot of outs.
FF? Chipper? They’ll likely have decent seasons, and probably McCann, in fairness, but that’s about it.
The rookie SS? Can’t be any worse than Gonzo….can he?
BIG DOG
December 7th, 2011
11:18 am
Reds need pitching bad.
J. J AND O’FLAHERTY FOR VOTTO
The Reds are not trading Yonder Alonso.
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE.
BIG DOG
December 7th, 2011
11:22 am
1. Bourn CF
2. Prado SS
3. Votto LF
4. Uggla 2B
5. Freeman 1B
6. Chipper 3B
7. Mccann Catcher
8. Heyward RF
BIG DOG IN THE HOUSE
boondawg
December 7th, 2011
11:23 am
Got a really bad feeling that any trade we make will be to shed payroll. That seems to be our main objective. I’m thinking that we have been lied to. We are trending toward the clubs that build players to buy prospect, not that build prospects to buy players. The Royals and Pirates have been 2, 3, or 4 years away for 20 years now. Are we about to become them?
Frankie Wren
December 7th, 2011
11:25 am
How dare you peons, who know nothing about baseball, question my judgement. I am not focused on the goings on at the winter meetings in Dallas because I am in hot negotiations for the next great Japanese player to wear a Braves uniform (I found out K.K. has a cousin who plays cricket).
Ozzie
December 7th, 2011
11:28 am
I am not sure how many have seen Pastornicky play but I have, several times in fact, this past season. He can hit and he can steal a base however he cannot field well and his errors usually involve poor throws.
High, low, wide left or right with modest zip is what I have seen.
He has too many errors for a minor league player where the game can move slower. So while ML pitching may and likely will impact his offensive stats he will be a real problem in the field.
So you have a hitting and base stealing SS with poor defensive skills and no ML experience penciled in for 2012. Why – b/c he is cheap and the team knows it is beyond desperate for cheap hitting.
FF and Heyward are not even in the same solar system as this kid talent wise and they both struggled offensively with Heyward being a complete face plant.
BTW while FF had a good year in 2011 its not like he hit .350 and 30 HRs. Put him on another team we don’t follow and he would be viewed as a nice 1B not an AS or guy who will carry a team.
So if it will take FF (who has more talent than Pastornicky) to evolve his gamel I think its complete folly to rely on Pastor today as the starter for 2012.
Two months ago it was report the Braves FO was undecided about Pastor future with the team. They errors and Simmons behind him gave them pause. Now with no improvement in his defensive play he is suddenly the guy.
Again this is a broke team making hopeful broke team moves.
Freddie 'Frodo' Gonzales
December 7th, 2011
11:28 am
Last September was all the hitting coach’s fault. Oh yeah, and O’Bama
Memphis
December 7th, 2011
11:36 am
Why do people continue to think Votto can play LF? He’s NEVER played LF. You can’t just put people anywhere.
dap01
December 7th, 2011
11:37 am
DOB: Thanks for the updates. You mention that Cuddyer being out of the Braves price range, what is the Braves’ price range? We hear Wren say that the payroll is going up but then the Braves act like a cash starved organization. They only things that they are trying to do is get rid of arbitration eligible players.
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2011
11:38 am
truebluebravesfan
December 7th, 2011
9:01 am,
__________________________________________________________________________________
Your above post damn near made me shoot milk out of my nose. Is that the only question marks you see on this team? Yes Freeman is solid and will be just fine, I said that in my last post. Yes, Mac is solid and will be just fine, I said that in my last post as well, Yes, Bourne will be just fine, surprise, surprise, I said that in the my past post as well.
Those 3 with the exception of possibly Venters and Kimbrel, this team has nothing but question marks. I will state again,
Hudson (Older, injury concerns)
Hanson (Injury concern, with a horrible delivery motion to go with it)
Jurrgens (See Hudson and Hanson. The guy has had injuries every year in the majors)
Beachy (Throws to many pitches and wears down by the 5th-6th inning)
Minor, Delgado, Teheran (None have much experience at the big league level therefore, a concern)
Chipper (Another year older, another year more brittle, don’t need to say anymore here)
Uggla (Seems to always start out slow, which with the other question marks on this team, could be very bad)
Pastornicky (No big league experience, and from what I have read, is vert suspect defensively)
Heyward (His rookie year was impressive, so why was last season so bad? Things to come, or perhaps trying to hard? We shall soon find out, but at this point, he is a question mark)
Prado or whoever will be the starting LF (Injury concern for Prado, although he has the best shot ar returning to form than any of the others IMO because of his work ethic. We probably won’t find that out though because he will more than likely be traded. We will be able to watch him return to form for a different team though.
Bullpen, they will be ok as long as they don’t have to pitch 3-4 innings every single game and wear down again. With the question marks surrounding the Braves starting rotation, I will pass judgment on the bullpen at another time.
So how can a team with that many questions marks, doing absolutely nothing but sticking their hands up their bung holes, and watching all the teams in the division doing some things whether that is huge like the Marlins(Reyes, Bell, and very possible Pujols), Impressive like the Phillies (Adding Papelbon to their bullpen) or mediocre like the Mets (Added a few players either by trade or free agency) So I ask you this, unless you have a crystal ball that can peak into the future, or the special navy blue sunglasses that can do the same, how can any Braves fan (unless completely naive) believe that the Braves will challenge next season? I guess I am a realist.
Dozer
December 7th, 2011
11:39 am
Why in the world would we ever want a top-5 at-his-position player when we can have Tyler P.??? After all, he might be a clubhouse nuisance, just like the last SS we ran out of here (er, did i miss something up in Toronto or have there been no such problems up there?). Gotta “tip your cap” to the Braves braintrust – they continue focused on their “Commitment to Pretty Good”…..good luck selling any of this to your fans…..
Felix
December 7th, 2011
11:40 am
My question is why did the ‘do nothing’ Braves management even attend the winter meetings?
I am glad they aren’t going near Hanley, he is a headcase.
dap01
December 7th, 2011
11:41 am
BTW, I agree with Ozzie that the changing position on Pastornicky starting the year makes me realize that either the Braves or so broke as to not even try to get a starting caliber SS or they are saving money for another piece somewhere else.
But there is NO baseball expert that says you can have a championship team with a weak fielding SS with no major league experience. Something smells……
Ozzie
December 7th, 2011
11:41 am
The Marlins payroll with all their adds (if they gey Pujols) is projected to be around 100mm. If the Braves are truthful about their payroll it will be around 90-91mm.
Now look at both teams who would be 10mm apart on payroll and tell me who has the better lineup?
The Braves have done a crappy job with their 88-90 payroll cap. If the Marlins pull this off they will have a much better team (which btw beat the Braves a fair bit over the past three years before all these major adds) and only be spending 10% more than ATL.
Yes we must be geniuses to pay Chipper 14mm, Uggla 12mm, Lowe 15 (now 10mm with the trade). That is 36mm for three guys none of which earned what they were paid in 2011 for more than 4 weeks.
Add ~14mm to that pile for KK and McClouth and it was 50mm on non factors. In NY that math gets you fired 10 times over. Heck in most cities it would.
nelson
December 7th, 2011
11:42 am
The Rockies contacted the Braves to express interest in righty Jair Jurrjens, tweets MLB.com’s Thomas Harding. With today’s Huston Street trade, the Rockies freed up the better part of $8MM to pursue a starting pitcher. MLBTR projects Jurrjens to earn $5.1MM in 2012; the 25-year-old is under team control through 2013 as an arbitration eligible player. Eight to ten teams have shown real interest in Jurrjens this winter, reported Danny Knobler of CBS Sports last night.
huston street for jurrjens ? jajja amazing trade wren ,who need a reliever pitcher ? as you replace a starter for a reliever ?. friends we’re screwed
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2011
11:54 am
For those saying we will have Bourne for the entire season next year, that is great indeed.
However, he raked it last season in Houston and where did that get that team? He was a very good player on a lousy team and couldn’t get them into contention. It is a team game, if 7 out of 9 players are struggling, those other 2 players, no matter how good they are, can keep the team in contention. Until this team proves otherwise, most of them are nothing but huge question marks. So while all you of so called know it all loyal fans are holding your breath waiting for this team to somehow beat the Phillies and Marlins in the division, we realist will be sitting and watching, not expecting much because that is the message this team has given their fan base since the epic collapse last September. They said they were going to improve this team to make sure that didn’t happen again this year, so far they have been liars. Doesn’t mean they can’t do something before the season starts, but by all accounts, they have said they are pretty much standing pat with the team they have.
BravesfaninWis
December 7th, 2011
11:57 am
I meant the players can’t keep their team in contention if only 2 of the 9 position players are playing well.
Matt from MN
December 7th, 2011
12:06 pm
Well, I guess we are all just waiting for the meetings to end and Frank Wren having his “presser”…
“We couldn’t find a way to improve our club”, “We feel very comfortable with the guys we’ve got coming back” , or “I like our team the way it is”.
Begin banging of Braves fans heads into the collective wall in 1…2…
reckingball
December 7th, 2011
12:07 pm
I think that the Braves will win the WS in 2012.
Wren has done a good job rebuilding this club.
GO BRAVES!!!
Brave New World
December 7th, 2011
12:16 pm
3rd Place Guaranteed ! December 7th, 2011 10:34 am I guess Victorino,Utley,Howard,Ibanez,Rollins can’t hit ?
That “Murderer’s Row” sure looked great in the bottom of the 9th in Game 5 of the 1st playoff round – 3 up, 3 down (unfortunately, Ryan Howard really went down). BTW, genius, Howard may not play much this year, Ibanez is 40-something, Utley is injury-prone, and Rollins is a free agent. You may have wanted to include Hunter Pence because he will actually be a Phillie in 2012.
Bill
December 7th, 2011
12:18 pm
Longtimefan and True Blue..Wow! What you smoking? Couldn’t make wild card last year and you think we can this year with no improvement…I respect everyones opinion but Please!
Agree with BravesfaninWis..he who thanks you can finish 10 games out and do nothing to improve and win is SICK!..
The names we hear from Winter meetings for SS & LF is not a improvement. Braves Fans deserve better if anyone gives a damn.
Roy
December 7th, 2011
12:19 pm
I want to see Matt Chernoff at SS batting on the #6 hole.
Andrew
December 7th, 2011
12:21 pm
Why doesn’t anyone in the Braves’ hierachy just come out and tell the truth. We have a cap of 90 mil, give or take, and CHEAPIA won’t let us spend any more than that and we have to go with what we have. I would much rather hear that than read a blatently false letter written by our team president.
Bill
December 7th, 2011
12:25 pm
dap01..agree. “If you’re not strong up the middle you wont win.”Oh..If you can’t hit you suck…
dap01
December 7th, 2011
12:29 pm
You can not count on improvement coming from guys who “had a bad year or got hurt”, there will be unexplainable bad years and injuries each year.
dap01
December 7th, 2011
12:34 pm
The Ted will not be filled up due to the addition of a platoon player or two.
Bill
December 7th, 2011
12:34 pm
No 300 hitter on team last year….except Constanza from about 2 months. Does that sound like a winning team?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 7th, 2011
12:48 pm
Here is the obvious question: Who expected a Hanley, Fredi reunion? Am I missing something? Hey AJC. Rather than write captain obvious piece, how about lets find out a solid number for this years budget? And they wont tell you, say “they wont tell me.” Jesus. We are truely sheep around here.
Bill
December 7th, 2011
12:52 pm
I didn’t wish for Hanley are Fredi for that matter.
GaryinBham
December 7th, 2011
12:58 pm
El Bravo, I like your analysis. There is so much “up” to consider.
b
December 7th, 2011
12:59 pm
Does anyone else notice when being interviewed, Fredi G.’s first response almost EVERY time is
“you know what…..”
It drives me up the wall.
Braves Fan Since 1966
December 7th, 2011
1:15 pm
Dear Mr. Wren – The exhaust fumes you are beginning to notice are coming from the Marlins who are passing you while you and the baseball specialists at Liberty Media are waiting, waiting, waiting. You have an above average team whose DNA was called into question in September. You’ve got an outfield with less power than any other team…in all of baseball. You have more prospects than you’ll ever be able to use. Is there anything encouraging you can tell us while we wait for the Nationals to pass us as well?
Disgruntled
December 7th, 2011
1:28 pm
- No pennants since 1999.
- No World Series championshipS since 1995.
- No NLCS appearance since 2001.
- One playoff appearance since 2005.
- 1996, 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2010 and 2011 all ended with choke-jobs.
To all of you getting upset at the angry posts, I ask, Are these results acceptable to you? The Braves’ brass deserves to be questioned. This franchise has zero postseason series wins in the last decade. I expect more, and you should, too.
Kyle
December 7th, 2011
1:28 pm
A word that I normally just save for the Falcons on Sunday but it works with this team as well…..Pathetic.
ab initio
December 7th, 2011
1:54 pm
“I hope DOB is saving some of these anti-Heyward posts so that he can repost them next season after Heyward strarts to display his potential and the same people dumping on him now start jumping anew on his bandwagon.”
I hope you’ll remember that until Heyward gets rid of that horrible uppercut dip in his swing, pitchers will continue to put pitches where it will have a devastating effect on his batting average. MLB has figured Heyward out. He should have done something about it last year. Until he does, his career is going to be short.
El Bravo
December 7th, 2011
1:58 pm
Thanks Gary. I just have a hard time understanding what they expect Wren to do. The payroll limt is what it is (about $91 million). We were not going to get Reyes or Rollins. There is absolutely no reason for Prado and Uggla to return to their career numbers as both of them are right in the middle of their peak years:
Career OBP OPS 2011 OBP OPS
Prado .341 .775 .302 .687
Uggla .343 .824 .311 .764
I see the name Cuddyer thrown around. His career stats are .343 OBP & .794 OPS (very similar to Prado) and he is 3 years older than Prado. Personally that doesn’t make sense to me. And to the idiots suggesting Joey Votto, Cincinnati is NOT trading Votto…
a fan
December 7th, 2011
2:04 pm
TED; We had two rookies last year who did ok. Right?
Lemke's Knuckler
December 7th, 2011
2:19 pm
Disgruntled…”To all of you getting upset at the angry posts, I ask, Are these results acceptable to you? The Braves’ brass deserves to be questioned. This franchise has zero postseason series wins in the last decade. I expect more, and you should, too.”
The rankings of teams with payrolls over $100mm, with 2011 ranks in attendance in parentheses
1. Yankees (2nd)
2. Phillies (1st)
3. Red Sox (8th)
4. Angels (5th)
5. White Sox (21st)
6. Cubs (9th)
7. Mets (14th)
8. Giants (3rd)
9. Twins (4th)
10. Tigers (13th)
11. Cardinals (6th)
12. Dodgers (11th)
The only teams that ranked in the top 14 in attendance without $100mm payrolls were the Brewers (7th, $86mm), Rangers (10th, $93mm) and Rockies (12th, $88mm).
The Braves are ranked 15th in both payroll and attendance.
So we’re talking the chicken & the egg. Would a higher payroll result in better attendance. Or would better attendance result in a higher payroll.
As fans, we can’t control the higher payroll, but we can control whether we go to the games and spend our money at the ballpark.
Chop101
December 7th, 2011
2:28 pm
Enter your comments here
Lemke's Knuckler
December 7th, 2011
2:30 pm
“No 300 hitter on team last year….except Constanza from about 2 months. Does that sound like a winning team?”
Phillies 2008 – Victorino led team at .293
White Sox 2005 – Podsednik led team at .290
Marlins 1997 – Bonilla led team at .297
That’s just going back 20 years. I’m pretty sure there were several great teams in the previous decades that did it too. I know what you’re saying though. Braves need more consistent hitting next year. I think everyone would agree.
Chop101
December 7th, 2011
2:45 pm
The times for trades have not yet passed and there is no need to panic. However, the wisdom behind how Frank Wren is handling this offseason will not be known until sometime next summer. It is understandable that so many fans want to see some kind of change. Half the excitment behind this sport is being able to at least think about what the team would be like with a brand new big bat in the lineup. The most discouraging part about this offseason is that it appears that us fans are constantly being told “No.”
No, the Braves are not going to be in the hunt for any big names. No, the Braves are not going to substantially increase their payroll. No, the Braves will not consider picking up such and such. No, the Braves will not replace Gonzo at SS with proven mlb talent. The news, while being realistic, is still hard to swallow for most of us fans who watched an almost sure playoff berth fade into utter disappointment. That’s a tough pill to swallow after 162 games and fans generally don’t like that empty soul-crushing feeling associated with such an embarrassing failure.
In the end, it just seems like a poor business decision for a team that wants, if not needs, more fans to attend their games. No upgrades and a bunch of “ifs” will leave a lot of empty seats in the stands. But if those “ifs” come true, then it will be a hell of a year.
74bravesjersey
December 7th, 2011
3:02 pm
I’m w/ya 3rd; I Hope DOB could truely relay this whole entire blog to the so-called Braves brass & say the atl fans voice(majority)is genuily tired of our sports teams more so this one whom I’ve lived & died w/ as a fan since ‘75,(they’ll break you’re heart & they don’t give a crap)just making avg. moves,where mediocrity, a 2nd,3rd rate tier players we already have on the team & in the system could suffice. If liberty media is our draw back, the braves org. is gonna see like it was back in the 70’s 1400 or 800 fans might be the avg. attendance & the sports talk shows will say atl is not a baseball town, No! we are a baseball town,I’m a Die-hard Brave through & through but the fans are sick of this o well mabey we’ll do good w/ what we got junk, letting them down easy come easy go type rationale that everyone else nationally makes fun of us about. I have some passion built up, but if the brass don’t have the same passion & be intellegent risk takers then it’s hard to go spend hard earned money on mediocrity. Bad attitude fans? bad attitude on mediocrity everythings fine attitude the brass tries to get us to drink for how long,7-8 yrs.now. Braves Brass;HEAR US OUT!WHAT”S YOU’RE approach for real. You’re digging you’re own hole being reserved. Be aggressively smart, That’s what the majority want fw,js. This is what’s being written from a majority of frustrated bloggers who don’t want excitement only to the yankees,redsox,fillies(female horses)& soon to be stronger than us Marlins,Nats,& even the muts aren’t sittin back waitin’to see what everyone else is doin’,Cmon ye lads(brass) PUT you’re backs into this like you use to(js)help fw pull off another crime dog move of some kind that is garanteed a impact that’l get us all fired up again.Hear us out again ye braves brass, shock the world, I’m tired of mlb,espn, etc… talkin about the fillies(female horses again) the moves they made. The now proclaimed All-world marlins, Nats sprinting by, c-mon guys show us some urgency ,show us that you care about the hard workin’blue coller something they can have to talk about to look foward to.(Carlos Quinten)who brings us an extra big threat to go along w/ uggla,McCann etc. hopefully Heyward & others can turnm it around. But u can’t always rely on hope so’s. How about Know so’s, PLEASE! I’m out.
MARTEEEN!
December 7th, 2011
3:06 pm
The Braves don’t need a lazy shortstop. They’ve already been down that road before.(Escobar)
74bravesjersey
December 7th, 2011
3:12 pm
Oh’ by the way If you’ll build it, They will come. Ya’ll let Liberty media know to pony up or let go. If they are willing to pony up w/ the extra doe for big impact pieces they will get there money back, the fans will start coming the city will be buzzin’ the’ll get there money back. But if not, free our baseball team to someon else who will hold the team close to there heart,did you read this arthur?,anybody out there w/ the urgency to win. Someone who can clone another Mark Cuban & bring em’ to atl, we fans are desperate.(Braves brass,HEAR our hearts on this!)Get this to them DOB, we’ll make sure you’ll keep ur job.
David O'Brien
December 7th, 2011
3:19 pm
Just back from the managers luncheon, and about to do our interview session with Fredi in 10 minutes.
What I gleaned from the managers luncheon: Joe Maddon looks as if he is in some sort of witness protection program with the new hairstyle and glasses. Seriously, you can hardly recognize him.
Ben
December 7th, 2011
3:29 pm
You people need to chill out. Once Pujols, Fielder, and the pitchers land it will be really obvious what we should try to do for the LONG TERM success of the Braves. The landscape will change considerably in the coming weeks. Hands off the red button, please!
Mitchell
December 7th, 2011
4:21 pm
Don’t expect a Hanley-Fredi reunion in ATL
Okay, I won’t.
Mitchell
December 7th, 2011
4:28 pm
That’s the problem with “long term success.”
It never comes. How about just suc-cess? Long or short.
Winning 89 games after acquring Dan Uggla for Omar Infante and essentially missing out on the playoffs after winning 91 games in 2010 on an Omar Infante game winning home run is the opposite of success.
Let’s face it, if any one game cost us the wild card it was that one.
We’ve made one playoff appearance in six years in spite of average four All Stars over the previous three seasons and five players finishing in the top three in Rookie of the Year voting over the past four seasons.
What success?
Maria
December 7th, 2011
4:35 pm
Peter Gammons said yesterday that the Marlins and Phillies better not forget about the Braves and that Jason Heyward will rebound and have an outstanding season. People have no idea just how much trouble he was having with his injured shoulder but he is now fully healthy and he should have an outstanding season.
Marlins have opted out of the Pujols talks. I don’t get why people are so up in the air about him. He’s going back to St. Louis.
What I would like to know is why aren’t the Braves pursuing Edgar Renteria? He was awesome when he was with us and he’d be perfect to platoon with Pastornicky and even take over for him should he struggle.
josh
December 7th, 2011
4:55 pm
bottom line is the braves are doomed there afraid to spend money and they rely on rookies to much. there plan hasn’t worked in 17 years what makes them think this year is gonna work with the same strategy? GET HANLEY!
Chris
December 7th, 2011
4:56 pm
Why would the cheapskate Braves even entertain trading for Ramirez when they have a player in Pastornicky who has zero MLB experience they can start on the cheap? While everyone else makes moves, the Braves, as usual, sit on their fat keisters and are happy with being a ho-hum middle of the road team yet again. Nice job Wren!!! Youre the BEST!!! Stupid stupid stupid. I’m so sick of loving a team who ownership/front office does not love them nor the fans and sit back and watch the Marlins get REALLY good along with the Phillies. Hell, the Nationals are in the market too.
Please go away Frank Wren…far away.
josh
December 7th, 2011
4:58 pm
well said
GermanBravesFan
December 7th, 2011
4:59 pm
Does DON just copy/paste his comments about injuries to Braves pitchers into every blog? Sounds like a broken record… and … is RAFAEL a version of Robert on acid (minus the Bobby Cox comments)?
Longarm1947
December 7th, 2011
5:28 pm
Why not the right fielder at Triple A. .262 ave .338 obp. 32 doubles, and 26 hrs.. His name is Stefan Gartrell.. 2 errors. What smells here/. Can’t read or spell his name. Go to GwinnettBraves.com Check the roster!!!!!!!!
Logan
December 7th, 2011
6:24 pm
Longarm1947 Interesting post.
ps Your older than dirt!
FEAR
December 7th, 2011
7:36 pm
Dig up the bones of leo durocher to play SS
Braint
December 7th, 2011
8:27 pm
Funny how some people assume the Braves will have Bourne the entire year….A Boras client who they will not be able to afford to re-sign will be trade bait by 7/31/12…..
Ronald Millsaps
December 7th, 2011
9:17 pm
Daniel, We don’t need the “dear Lord” reference.
Okay, Hanley didn’t run out a ground ball. I’m not denying this fact. Andruw Jones once didn’t make a respectable break on a ball hit to him. Did the Braves cut him? No. Bobby pulled him out immediately, which sent a strong message.
In 2006, Adam LaRoche nonchalantly trotted to first and got beaten there by the runner. Did he get cut? No. Should he have been? No. Did he play well for us here after that? Absolutely. Did Andruw? Absolutely.
Honestly, I thought Fredi at times was borderline nonchalant with some of his postgame comments, i.e. saying the other team had the right to win as well.
Ramirez is too good a player not to consider. At least fly him in for talks. Take him out for a two-hour dinner and discussion. If it’s productive, proceed. If not, okay; move on, but at least pursue the option; the man’s an outstanding talent.
Ronald Millsaps
December 7th, 2011
9:19 pm
Make an offer to Prince Fielder.
I say this knowing that the possibility is only slightly greater than that of TBS producing wholesome programming.
Ronald Millsaps
December 7th, 2011
9:28 pm
I reiterate: Trading Lillibridge and Yates for Vazquez was foolish—-especially since they only were planning to consider keeping Vazquez long-term if Hudson’s Tommy John surgery/recovery were unsuccessful.
I dare say Brian McCann could’ve used some days off last summer, and I dare say Brent Lillibridge would’ve had a better year than Alex Gonzalez did, though Gonzalez is fine.
The revolving door around here isn’t going too well: They ran Jeff Francoeur out of town for being openly upset about getting misled, if not lied to, and now he’s back to doing what we all know he can do. They ran Edgar Renteria out and opted instead to accommodate Yunel Escobar, who makes Hanley Ramirez look like Renteria. They did do well in acquiring Billy Wagner, but they might not have needed him if they hadn’t run out a guy with an even-faster fastball, along with Elvis Andrus, etc.. Now they’re showing no signs of having a sense of urgency about keeping Michael Bourn, and they benched Jose Constanza for no apparent reason. Oh, yeah; Mike Smith and the Falcons aren’t being that much more intelligent in their approach.
By the way, I’d like to see Matt Ryan spend at least 10 minutes per day throwing at targets, directly and off-balanced. Every day, Tom Brady goes over the five basic mechanics of throwing a simple pass. I’d like to see Ryan throw more sharply and accurately.
Frank Wren
December 8th, 2011
12:14 pm
Marlins and Nationals are not competition for the Braves.
Marlins sign an overrated SS and washed up pitcher. If Hanley leaves then the Marlins are in a worse position than last year
Nationals: Werth is not a game changing.
Braves will still be battling the Phillies for the NL East crown
Nitro
December 9th, 2011
9:54 am
I would have no problem bringing in a Jimmy Rollins, Jose Reyes, Hanley Ramirez type for one or two years…but that isn’t even an option. They all are in a position to demand way too much money for way too many years. And their best years are well behind them. I have no doubt that each of them will outperform Pastornicky this coming season, but what about two or three years from now when the wheels fall off of them?! Everyone who knows anything about our farm system understands that Andrelton Simmons is the long term answer at shortstop, and he may just be a year and a half away. I agree with the earlier post questioning why Stefan Gartrell isn’t considered an option in the outfield, just like I don’t understand why Pastornicky wasn’t given a shot in the middle of last season at shortstop. If we do make a move this off season, I hope it is for a Carlos Quentin type in the outfield, and possibly Yuniesky Betancourt at shortstop as a placefiller/veteran backup. He put up about the same numbers as Gonzo last year while dealing with his own injuries, and he’s younger. No reason to trade away proven performers like Jurrjens and prado just to appease the folks who want to see a deal!
Laughing out Loud
December 12th, 2011
3:35 pm
@Negative Nancy, yes, I remember well the good old days you referenced. but I also, remember the grumbling, complaining negativity that followed the Braves by certain gans even in the “good ole days.” Truth of the matter is with baseball fans they are never satisfied. Today, every blogger knows better than Braves leadership and complain when things are not what they want. After all, the fans are supreme! They are entitled and if they don’t get what they think they’re entilted to, then they are victims. Laughing out loud!!!
Walk in Dusche
February 22nd, 2012
10:08 pm
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