McCann contract situation looms for Braves
While most Braves fans are wondering who’ll be their Opening Day shortstop and whether Jair Jurrjens and/or the popular Martin Prado will be traded by the end of next week’s Winter Meetings, a potentially bigger issue looms in the not-too-distant future: Brian McCann.
Braves' Brian McCann, the best hitting catcher in the National League, is signed through 2012 with a $12 million team option for 2013. Then what?
Specifically, will the Braves make the six-time All-Star catcher a franchise player along the lines of Chipper Jones by signing McCann to a long-term extension in the next year or so?
McCann will make $11.5 million in the final season of his contract in 2012 (the base salary of $8.5 million was increased the maximum $3 million by escalators tied to All-Star appearances and Silver Slugger awards).
There is a $12 million option for 2013, a straight team option with a $500,000 buyout. Between now and the end of the ’12 season — we’ll operate under an assumption the team picks up the option — the Braves will face a big decision.
Will they commit a very large amount long-term to sign the local kid who’s become a team leader and the best-hitting catcher in the NL (and arguably best in the majors, at least until Minnesota’s Joe Mauer can stay healthy or Detroit’s Alex Avila has more years like the one he just had)?
Or will they possibly wait to make that decision after seeing what 20-year-old catching prospect Christian Bethancourt does next season in high-A or Double-A? The rangy, gifted athlete hit .289 with a modest five homers and .304 OBP in 387 at-bats last season in low-A and high-A, then opened some eyes in the Arizona Fall League, where he displayed his rifle arm and quick release from behind the plate and hit .302 with five homers in 72 at-bats.
The only question about Bethancourt was whether he would ever hit, and now he’s started to do that while continuing to add muscle to a 6-foot-3 frame. I talked to him after a game in Arizona and was impressed by his attitude, his knowledge of the game and his size. He’s a lean 205 now, up from 170 when he first came to the U.S. from Panama, and looks like he could easily carry another 20 pounds.
The Braves won’t say how Bethancourt’s development might affect their McCann decision or offer, but I’m guessing they probably see it as a welcome complication. By that I mean, if they had no strong catching prospect coming up through the system, there would probably be very little debate about whether you go all out to re-sign McCann and damn the costs.
Don’t get me wrong, Bethancourt is still a long way from being a sure thing. The chances are slim that he’ll ever produce six-plus seasons of hitting like we’ve seen from McCann — at any point during Bethancourt’s career, much less at the beginning of his career. We say that with reasonable assurance, because McCann has hit like few catchers before. Meanwhile, Bethancourt is a bright kid with huge skills, but still raw in some ways and hasn’t shown ability to draw walks and post a good OBP.
Scouts in Arizona Fall League were impressed by the development of the strong-armed Braves catching prospect Christian Bethancourt.
But what I’m saying is this: The progress of Bethancourt can give the Braves some measure of confidence. They can feel good knowing that if they sign McCann to a long-term extension and, say, a couple of years into the new deal he starts to show more signs of wear and tear from catching for nearly a decade in the big leagues, they could have a big-time young (and cheap) catcher ready to split the duties with McCann in a transitional period.
Or take over altogether if the Braves decided to move McCann to another position (or another team, if he didn’t want to play first base, which is really the only other position I could see him playing).
Here’s what an assistant GM from another NL East team told me about Bethancourt out in Artizona, after this guy had watched him play for a couple of weeks in the fall league:
“He’s got power, he can throw, catch,” this official said. “That’s going to be a nice for [the Braves] — that’ll run its course about the time that Brian will have to move to first base.”
I should point out, I never mentioned McCann to this NL team official, who brought up the subject after I asked him for his impressions of Bethancourt.
A couple of scouts in Arizona claimed they timed Bethancourt’s “pop time” on throws to second base at 1.75 seconds, which would be well above the major league average and not far off the best times of peak-era Pudge Rodriguez, who’s had the best average pop times in the past 15 years. (Pop time is measured from when the ball hits the catcher’s glove to when it reaches the second baseman or shortstop, and 1.85 to 1.95 seconds is good for big-league catchers.)
“I didn’t have any 1.7’s, but I had some 1.8’s on this guy [Bethancourt],” said the NL team official. “And he runs damn well. It’s not average, but very close to average. And with that body…”
By “not average, but very close,” he meant that Bethancourt runs at close to average speed for a major league ballplayer. For a catcher to do that is highly unusual. In one of the two games I saw Bethancourt catch, he legged out a double and you’d have never known he was a catcher the way he rounded first, loped to second and slid into the base.
Anyway, he’s good. Great potential to do some things we don’t see many catchers do.
But McCann is a proven commodity and one of the elite players in the game at his position over the past couple of decades. A natural hitter who has worked to become a terrific hitter. No player in franchise history was named to the All-Star team in each of his first three full seasons before McCann, who’s done it in all six of his full seasons.
He’s a five-time Silver Slugger Award winner as the NL’s best hitter at his position.
Pay McCann or….
If the Braves don’t re-sign him to a long-term extension, there is no way they could afford to sign a free-agent catcher who contributes anything close to the offense that McCann does. The aforementioned Mauer, the only catcher with better stats than McCann for a multi-year period in the past decade, made $12.5 million in 2010 in the last year of a four-year extension, in what would have been his first year of free agency.
Before that 2010 season, Mauer signed an enormous eight-year, $184 million contract that took effect this season and pays him $23 million annually, easily the biggest contract ever for a catcher.
Mauer was coming off a remarkable 2009 season in which he won the AL MVP award after winning his league’s batting title (.365), hitting 28 homers, and also leading the AL with otherwordly totals in OBP (.444), slugging (.587) and OPS (1.031).
In the two seasons since, Mauer has made $35.5 million — while batting .327 with nine homers, 65 RBIs and an .871 OPS in 2010, and .287 with three homers, 30 RBIs and a career-low .729 OPS in 296 at-bats in an injury-plagued 2011 season.
Twins catcher Joe Mauer had an injury-plagued season in 2011 in the first year of an eight-year contract that pays him $23 million annually, the biggest deal ever for a catcher.
To repeat, Mauer will make $23 million in each of the next seven seasons.
Yikes.
McCann never had a season like Mauer had in 2009 (although he did hit .333 with 24 homers and a .961 OPS in McCann’s first full season in 2006). But McCann also never had a bad season like Mauer’s 2011. Not even close to one.
He has clearly outperformed Mauer over the past two-year period.
Despite a career-worst second-half slump after an oblique strain this past summer, McCann still hit .270 with 24 homers, a .351 OBP and an .817 OPS, the seventh consecutive season he hit .269 or better and fourth consecutive season he totaled more than 20 homers while posting an OBP of .349 or better and an OPS above .815.
McCann, who’ll turn 28 in February, has a career .286 average, .358 OBP and .844 OPS, with 136 homers and 537 RBIs in 882 games.
Mauer, who’ll turn 29 in April, has a .323 career average, .403 OBP and .874 OPS, with 84 homers and 502 RBIs in 918 games. He’s a four-time All-Star with four Silver Slugger awards and three Gold Gloves (McCann has no Gold Gloves).
Mauer made $23 million in 2011, and will make that much for each of the next seven seasons.
What kind of deal might the Braves be willing to offer McCann? Will they wait to see how he does in 2012, how he snaps back from his second-half slump? Will Bethancourt’s development play into the decision in any way?
The Braves aren’t saying, publicly or privately, and I wouldn’t expect them to for some time.
When Chipper was in this position…
Chipper Jones was in something of a similar position to McCann more than a decade ago. Jones had signed a four-year contract extension that bought out his arbitration years and included a club option for 2000, which would’ve been his first year of free-agent eligibility.
The Braves waiting until spring 2000 to begin negotiations with Jones’ agent, B.B. Abbott, and the sides came to an agreement at midseason and announced a six-year, $90 million extension that also included options for ’07 and ’08.
McCann, who has the same agent, signed a six-year $26.8 million extension in spring training of 2007, after his first full season in the majors (that amount is up to $29.8 million after the $3 million raise for 2011 from the escalators triggered by awards and honors).
Jeff Francoeur turned down a similar deal at that same time when friend and then-rookie teammate McCann signed on the dotted line, a deal that was similar in terms of years and dollars to the one McCann accepted, because Francoeur and his advisors thought he could make significantly more by waiting for a better offer in a year or two.
McCann took the security of a long-term deal. In hindsight, he certainly could have leveraged his first All-Star seasons into a much bigger deal, but there’s something to be said for McCann being able to work and thrive in those early years knowing that his future was secure, not worried about an injury or anything else that might reduce his performance.
Hank Aaron and Chipper Jones are franchise icons, but McCann is the only Brave ever named to All-Star teams for more than his first three full seasons. He's done it for six and counting.
Francoeur, the Sports Illustrated cover boy as a rookie and the one many had viewed as the next franchise Golden Boy, ended up struggling before being traded to the Mets in 2009, then later moving to the Rangers and the Royals, where he had an encouraging bounce-back season in 2011 (.285 with 20 homers, .329 OBP, .805 OPS).
McCann has made about $17 million since signing that contract, while Francoeur has made about $11.5 million in that same four-year span. Next year, McCann’s salary climbs to $11.5 million, while Francoeur will make $6 million with the Royals.
In 2013, McCann will make $12 million from the Braves, assuming they pick up his option, and Francouer is scheduled to make $7.5 million in the last year of his deal with the Royals.
Between now and then, things should get interesting with the Braves and McCann.
He’s been their best and most consistent hitter the past several seasons, and one of the best hitting catchers in a generation or two. So how will he be rewarded on his next contract?
And and will the Braves, who already have an outstanding first baseman (Freddie Freeman) who’ll be affordable for at least several more years, pay McCann somewhere in at least the mid-eight-figure range annually in a long-term deal?
If they decide not to offer him something north of $15 million annually in a long-term deal, would McCann possibly decide to test free agency, where he might be able to get considerably more from an American League team that could use him at DH some in the near future and a lot more in later years?
It might be awhile before we get those answers, but it’s worth thinking about and looking forward to, as we wait for more immediate matters to start to heat up during the winter meetings.
♣ On to Big D: Speaking of those meetings, which run Monday through Thursday in Dallas, it’s impossible to know if the Braves will make a significant move while we’re there, but you can bet they will be involved in a multitude of rumors and plenty of actual trade discussions.
Every team knows the Braves are willing to trade some of their players, with Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado the two names that have been bandied about for the past two months.
However, Wren has also made it a point to say that the Braves aren’t trying to shed payroll and aren’t shopping players so much as they are listening to offers and seeing what it would take to make a move or two to strengthen the team.
Wren told me Monday that the Braves will keep searching trying to improve the team. A team that, even after its epic September collapse, wasn’t eliminated from postseason contention until the last night of the season.
The Braves need a shortstop, but as we’ve said they aren’t going to sign a free agent to a multi-year deal and aren’t going to trade for one with more than a year left on a contract. They want nothing more than a bridge to prospect Tyler Pastornicky, and they insist even that is not a necessity.
Wren told me Monday that the Braves would be content to go to spring training with Pastornicky as their shortstop, rather than get some marginal veteran player just to fill the spot. In other words, don’t look for the Braves to acquire a Ronny Cedeno to keep the shortstop spot warm until Pastornicky is ready.
Despite Pastornicky’s limited high-minors experience – 128 games in Double-A, 27 games at Triple-A – and his 26 errors in 2011, Wren said the Braves were confident after his performance the past two seasons, including a .314 average and .349 OBP in ’11, that they would be more than willing to go to spring training with the 22-year-old penciled in at shortstop.
Maybe there’s some posturing there, and the Braves want other teams to think they feel no urgency to trade for a shortstop, but Wren at least sounded pretty convincing when he said it. So we’ll see next week, after we get to Dallas and other teams start talking to the Braves.
It’s also worth noting that the Braves could always go into the season with Pastornicky as their shortstop and a veteran backup to spell him from time to time. And then, if things aren’t working out for the kid by mid-summer, they could make a move to improve the position.
I say this because a team I covered did it with great success once before, when the 1997 Marlins decided at midseason to replace talented but just-not-ready-yet second baseman Luis Castillo. They traded for veteran Craig Counsell in late July, and Counsell took over at second base, helped solidify the offense, and would end up scoring the winning run on Edgar Renteria’s game-ending single in Game 7 of the World Series against Cleveland.
Dave Dombrowski was GM of that Marlins team, and his top assistant was Wren.
The fact is, at present time there are very few potential bridge-type shortstops who appear to be available, after some veterans who fit the description already signed free-agent contracts this winter (deals that exceeded what the Braves were willing to pay for a shortstop/utilility player, both in terms of years and dollars).
Despite his limited experience in the high minors, Braves officials say they're confident Tyler Pastornicky could handle the shortstop position from Opening Day.
There have been years when Braves GM Wren pulled off a big trade at the GM meetings or Winter Meetings, and others where he waited until later in the offseaon to fill his team’s priority needs. Will he swing a deal to bring a power-hitting corner outfielder to Atlanta? I’d guess that might be more likely than a move to acquire a shortstop.
Because while the Braves have the potential to get 25-35 homers and a high OBP out of Jason Heyward in right and solid all-around offense with 15-20 homers out of Prado in left, to go with the blazing speed from leadoff man Michael Bourn in center, we saw last year how those best-laid plans don’t always work out when it comes to fruition with players who are either young and or unproven at a particular position.
Will Heyward bounce back from a disappointing second season? I’d say chances are good. Was Prado’s subpar season attributable primarily to the staph infection that landed him on the DL for more than a month last summer? I think so, but can’t say for sure. No one can.
So do the Braves, after last year’s September debacle, go into the 2012 season without making any major changes and just riding their faith in their current corner outfielders and a rookie shortstop with no major league experience?
That I can’t see Wren doing. He’s too pragmatic to stand pat this winter.
♣ OK, let’s close with a great tune from an underrated band, the Cold War Kids. You can hear the studio version by clicking here, or see them do a great live version by clicking here.
“TELL ME IN THE MORNING” by Cold War Kids
Stick around Greenly, now that she’s gone
Take my time when I got to bed, and I sleep long
I’m getting over, mulling over
I said, “Could you just wait to tell me in the morning?”
Slow it down, slow it down
And lay it low, save it for the morning
I know that you would like, like to change me
Make me softer to your voice like a baby
I’m using caution, but you’re warning
I wish that you could wait to tell me in the morning
Slow it down, slow it down
And lay it low, save it for the morning
I’m shouting questions, like a fist fight
You try to take me by the arms lead me to the light
I’m almost over, warring over
I wish that you could wait to tell me in the morning
Slow it down, slow it down
And lay it low, save it for the morning
And I’ll tell you one more thing
I confess to self deception
And I broke the lock and I pried it open
Then pretended to be stolen
I am my own thief in the night
Struggled for many years just to get here
To learn humility and be my own teacher
I guess it backfired ’cause my motive
Was just to take and never care ’bout what I give
Slow it down, slow it down
And lay it low, save it for the morning
I’m shouting questions like a fist fight
You try to take me by the arms lead me to the light
I’m almost over, warring over
I wish that you could wait to tell me in the morning
Slow it down, slow it down
Laying low, save it for the morning
But I’ll tell you one more thing
I confess to self deception
And I broke the lock and I pried it open
Then pretended to be stolen
I am my own thief in the night
by David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog
3,707 comments Add your comment
TnBrian
November 29th, 2011
9:57 pm
#1!
kc
November 29th, 2011
9:58 pm
I know the Rule 5 Draft is up coming and I have not seen a list for the Braves for who we might loose to the Rule 5 Draft?
DHD
November 29th, 2011
9:58 pm
Weird
Back to baseball….
Signing McCann is a no-brainer. Just do it. We lose the soul of the team if we let him go.
TnBrian
November 29th, 2011
9:59 pm
i know I’ll be #1 since dummy has to get banned for his junk nobody cares about anyways.
TnBrian
November 29th, 2011
9:59 pm
Now I’ll go read the blog.
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:00 pm
Uggggh! here we go again! sheesh!
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:01 pm
Someone hurry over to Wrens house and hide the liquor cabinet key! quick that sumbee has to be drinking some hard booze to think the way he is thinking!
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:02 pm
Wonder what the Rangers are doing? an actual team with a purpose!
Dob
November 29th, 2011
10:03 pm
See, I’d be worried about trusting Bethancourt, and not because McCann is the best catcher in baseball.
Bethancourt is under the age of 23, and it’s a proven fact you can’t win with players that young.
brian
November 29th, 2011
10:04 pm
please ban Lionel for the political crap
FutureBraves
November 29th, 2011
10:05 pm
Let him go save the money, hes going to get hurt
brian
November 29th, 2011
10:05 pm
thanks for the blog DOB. Superb blog to help get the Hot Stove cooking here (like we need any help). You may have caused McFann palpatations or a minor stroke with that blog though
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:08 pm
Personally I think for the Braves and McCann to work out a deal there will have to be concessions on both sides. McCann will have to settle for the fact that he won’t make the money he could on the open market because the Braves aren’t able to sustain a long term contract for high money on a position like catcher. McCann would have to be under the understanding that he may not play out the tenure of the contract behind the plate. I would imagine he would get a no trade clause or at least a limited one. The kid is a Georgia native who loves this team. I don’t see the cockiness in him as was in Francouer. This is his team and I’m sure theres no one that Chipper would like to hand the reigns over to more than him. It could be complicated with his position though and his want to stay there long term. Heres to hoping they get it all worked out.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:09 pm
Lionel just posted that crap on the bottom of the other page. He had to bring it over to this one to I guess.
brian
November 29th, 2011
10:11 pm
we are not going to trust Bethancourt this year with the catching even if the unthinkable happens and BMAC is traded.
In 1-2 years could BMAC be traded, especially to an AL team, of course. This year with this team – not a chance.
McCann gives the Braves such a huge advantage at the catcher position especially important considering the Braves offensive woes. It would have taken a deal centered around someone like Matt Kemp for the Braves to even consider trading McCann.
For arguments sake (and to see if McFann is reading) would anyone trade McCann for Justin Upton as the centerpieces of a blockbuster? He could join Heyward and Bourn in the OF.
N8
November 29th, 2011
10:11 pm
JoeBrave….. making dumbasses look smart since, well…. since whenever he started posting.
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:13 pm
and N8 making a futile attempt at being a smartass well since he was born! I hate you ,man you are one arrogant piece of crap!
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:14 pm
I make no bones about my disdain for Pastornicky at SS! at least I don’t belittle others as if I am some lost n myself demi-god! you really are a piece of work there N8! NOT! loser!
Delbert D.
November 29th, 2011
10:14 pm
Don’t do the Mauer thing. That is too risky. I’m sure the pencil-necks at Liberty Media will agree.
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:15 pm
Scroll past my posts and I damn sure will yours!
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:16 pm
Gotta re-sign Mac! say 6 more at 15 should do it!
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:17 pm
Glad some of y’all liked the post. I just stumbled into it week or so ago while looking for something else. after reading it I thought it was about the best scouting primer I have ever read. Couple of slight differences with what I was taught 4o some years ago,but basically the same.
The Yanks in the 40s and 50s are the ones who basically codified a lot of that and it has stayed almost totally relevant over all this time.
Good blog DOB. It will be interesting to see whether McFann’s heart gets broken in a few years or if she will continue in baseball bliss……
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:19 pm
Bobby V.In Boston….well that should get interesting to say the least.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:21 pm
JoeBrave
Can’t say I’m suprised on Bobby V in Boston. As soon as I saw him on the radar I figured he’d get the job.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:22 pm
Bobby V knows baseball. he is also an arrogant prick who can be charming when he wants something but eventually lets his ego get in the team’s way. Maybe he has matured late………Boston needs to hope so
Sopheee
November 29th, 2011
10:23 pm
Mac fo’ life.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:23 pm
Mariners interested in Seth Smith. Hopefully they pull the trigger to put all the Prado/Seth Smith stuff to rest once an for all.
brian
November 29th, 2011
10:23 pm
as hard as it is to think about, DOB brings some great points to the table in thinking about signing McCann to a long term contract. Having a young, viable option does complicate the front office thinking.
I would like to see what the big board looks like in the board room with the projected lineup in 3 years. Have to at least have Bethancourt pencilled in under McCann
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:24 pm
amen P’c
McFann O O o
November 29th, 2011
10:24 pm
Not exactly the best thing to read before heading off to bed…and I don’t think I blinked through the entire article…
But thanks(?) for the new Blog, Chief…dear lord in heaven, I can’t believe there’d even be a “maybe” in there anywhere!!…
brian For arguments sake (and to see if McFann is reading) would anyone trade McCann for…
No.
nolie It will be interesting to see whether McFann’s heart gets broken in a few years…
Eesh…that would be……that would be weird. Not exactly “devastating”, because it’s only baseball, but…I wouldn’t like it at all. I’ve been a Braves Junky since 2006, so it wouldn’t look right to have no BMac. I think it would be a year or more before I could even look at the other guy behind the plate…
or if she will continue in baseball bliss…
That I could go for.
unbelievable
November 29th, 2011
10:24 pm
Pastornicky doesnt need to be our opening day SS. Braves need to look at the cost of Stephen Drew or Scutaro.
brian
November 29th, 2011
10:24 pm
I still think that Prado, if traded, goes to the tigers. AL team so we are not having to play against him. The Tigers want him and Miggy Cabrera wants him.
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:25 pm
Tired! had enough of wise ass people today! P’cola you take care, hopefully Valentine will last in Boston, seems quite likable, at least as an analyst.Go Wren, make the right choice, tread lightly however on unwise choices, leave the babies in the cradle, and bring the real men to the dance!
McFann O O o
November 29th, 2011
10:25 pm
Sopheee—
YES!!
brian
November 29th, 2011
10:27 pm
must be nice to know that everyone thinks of you McFann when any McCann news pops up. I expect there was some hyperventilating when you read the blog as well
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:28 pm
unbelievable
Drew costs 10 mil this year and is still a staple in ARZ and coming off a serious ankle injury. Scutaro’s option was picked up in Boston. I would be very suprised to see him moved.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:28 pm
there is no chance in the world that they would pay the salary of either one , let out give up prospects on top of that
Sopheee
November 29th, 2011
10:28 pm
Didn’t seem like Bobby V matured whenever I caught him on ESPN the past few years. He comes off as a know-it-allish jerk. I just don’t see him working out in Boston but we shall see.
McFann O O o
November 29th, 2011
10:28 pm
brian—
Yeah, it is kinda nice…for the most part…
I expect there was some hyperventilating when you read the blog as well
My heart was sent into arrhythmia…
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
I will say this however,Brian McCann deserves a ring! and if Wren is hell bent on driving this team of BIG IF’S into the ground, then by all means Trade Mac! He deserves better!what with all the if bouncing going on around the Braves! If JJ is healthy, IF Prado, Heyward, Uggla bounce back, IF Hanson is healthy, IF the KID can play SS, IF IF IF!!! get the picture!
Joey B.
November 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
So … how many of you actually think Wren makes a substantial trade in Dallas next week? I’ll say yes.
Bama Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
Waves BY Bye to Brian…….
Playoffs!!!
November 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
Why not McCann in leftfield someday?. You don’t have to be a gifted athlete to play leftfield. He could then play 158-160 games and maybe put up numbers like 30 HRs and 120 RBIs.
With the extra ABs and not being worn down by catching, he could put up MVP numbers.
And let’s be honest, he is NOT the greatest defensive catcher.
Sopheee
November 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
ACC! ACC! ACC! (Except Duke).
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:31 pm
I’ll guess no, Joey
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:32 pm
and I’ll second nolie on the NO!
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:32 pm
yeah plenty of catchers have played left, could happen.especially if Freeman lives up to his promise
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:33 pm
Yogi Berra
unbelievable
November 29th, 2011
10:34 pm
Pcola I doubt Stephen Drew would be available either. Boston has Lowrie and could move Scutaro. I dont think it would take a great prospect to get him, but Braves and boston could look at a bigger deal…Say Jurrjens for Scutaro and Reddick
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:35 pm
JoeBrave
I think everyteam is built on IF’s. Even the Phillies have IF’s going into next year. Its a part of Baseball that makes it great. No year is ever the same. Granted we have more IF’s than I really like.
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:36 pm
Lowrie is a non-tender candidate. Scutaro is Boston’s starter til Iglesias is ready to go.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
November 29th, 2011
10:38 pm
The Boston Red Sox just hired Bobby Valentine to be their manager. It’s a good fit…because not only does Valentine want to win…but he’ll be supported by passionate Red Sox fans who demand a winner…as well as management and ownership who will do what it takes to put the best product on the field. The Red Sox will perform MUCH BETTER down the stretch in 2012.
Our Braves, on the other hand, basically stood pat. We have the same manager who has a career record of 306-305.
I remember DOB saying, “What has Bobby Valentine ever won”? At least he managed a team to the World Series. Fredo hasnt even taken a team to the playoffs yet. Valentine expects results..and will push his players to perform. Fredo……basically follows Bobby Cox’s “let’s blame bad bounces and the other team hitting good pitches” school of thought.
The Red Sox will win the AL East in 2012. The Braves, will struggle offensively and hope for one of the two Wild Card spots to fall in their lap.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:38 pm
they are not gonna pay 6 mil for a SS. If you think they will you are deluding yourself
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:38 pm
P’cola, a helluva lot more if’s! JJ,Chipper, Hanson, Heyward, Uggla, Prado, Beachy, Minor, even Hudson at this point, and now an even bigger if being proposed at ss. I don’t know about you but that doesn’t look all that promising. that is 10 great big ol IF”S
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
November 29th, 2011
10:39 pm
Won’t keep fighting the DH battle on this blog as I’ve done many times, but if the NL went to the DH no NL team would benefit more than the Braves…. and justify giving Mac that big-money deal.
As long as baseball is realigning it’s time for the DH to go full speed ahead. And the Braves would be the biggest beneficiaries, despite what most of you think.
keyLargo
November 29th, 2011
10:39 pm
i know I’ll be #1 since dummy has to get banned for his junk nobody cares about anyways. TenBrian.
Actuall Tenbrian, you’re #3. That was #2 just above you.
TnBrian
November 29th, 2011
10:39 pm
Thanks for the read Dave. I’m with you too on Wren … he will do something. Could be pretty big too.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:40 pm
Ban the DH!!!!!!!!!!!BOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:40 pm
unbelievable
Boston is going through the same thing we are in terms of the collapse but Scutaro was definitely a bright spot on that team and I don’t think they’d be inclined to move him. Especially w/ Lowrie history. If Iglesias was closer I think their would be more of a chance. Of course everythings possible I just don’t seem him being moved. Though coming off a career year he is at peak value and the compensation system changes next year.
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
November 29th, 2011
10:41 pm
Didn’t say I liked it Nolie — just what would benefit the Braves.
Baseball needs to be consistent. Why shoud Minnesota be able to benefit with Mauer while the Braves have to bench arguably their best hitter 1-2 days per week. Not equitable.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:42 pm
Don’t care. Don’t want it
JoeBrave
November 29th, 2011
10:44 pm
Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux would tell you “chicks dig the long ball” the dig it even more when the pitcher steps into one.
The A Bomb - OUTCHOKED ® TWICE!
November 29th, 2011
10:44 pm
Well — it’s probably coming. And it will help the Braves keep McCann IMO.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:46 pm
I also don’t think there is any reason to assume it would benefit the Braves as much as it would teams with much higher payrolls that could afford to add another very good hitter on top of a strong starting lineup
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:48 pm
JoeBrave
I think some of those IF’s are minor. I fully expect Prado to bounce back. I’m not going to say he bounces back to a .300 hitter but I think hes capable of hitting .280+. Beachy solidified himself and has the past few seasons. Really hasn’t given a reason to question him. Hanson, JJ and now Hudson all IF’s. I think the bullpen is the core strength. Heyward a big ?. Uggla hit 36 HR and had over 80 RBI. Has always hit well in Atlanta. Really don’t expect anything worse than that next year. SS is obviously a ?? until its resolved. Still plenty of ? but its still early in the offseason.
McFann O O o
November 29th, 2011
10:49 pm
OK, well, guess I better get some shut-eye…though I don’t feel nearly as tired as I did before I read all this…
But kudos to DOB—hard to keep me reading non-stop for more than 5 minutes at a time… 
Night, all! KEEP BMAC!!!!!!
AdirondackDave
November 29th, 2011
10:49 pm
Joey B — Yup, I’ll add my 2 cents and agree that Wren will probably make a move for a power left fielder next week or within a week or two after. I like Marteen a lot but as a second baseman or super utility guy. The guy is an all-star at second and every other GM that wants an upgrade at that position knows that and will be talking to Wren.
I have no idea about Jurrjens and the market. Sure, he has value now but if the clubs holds him and he produces during ST and April-May his value should go up enough to bring in a serious haul of offensive talent and/or prospects. Or maybe somebody will pull the trigger on him soon that will satisfy Wren.
BFChris27
November 29th, 2011
10:50 pm
Thanks for new blog!
I can’t wait for the winter meetings to begin.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
10:53 pm
I don’t see a big trade coming. Probably some smaller ones that solidify the team. Wren has said he doesn’t intend to blow up the team and I don’t see teams wanting to meet his asking price. It will probably be smaller moves that gives this team depth.
BFChris27
November 29th, 2011
10:58 pm
P’cola Brave
I believe so too. If any big trade happens, it’s Prado (Jurrjens prob not going anywhere), but I think it’ll end up being smaller deals.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
10:58 pm
It will probably be smaller moves that gives this team depth….P’c
my thoughts too, but we can hope
Joey B.
November 29th, 2011
11:04 pm
So you guys don’t even think Wren will acquire a bat to start in LF for us?
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:05 pm
If they don’t spend on a shortstop it should give them enuff green to acquire a decent 4th OFer
N8
November 29th, 2011
11:06 pm
“I hate you ,man you are one arrogant piece of crap!” JoeBrave
Thanks. Doesn’t hurt my feelings to be hated by a whiny little bitch who does NOTHING but complain about Frank Wren and Liberty Media.
WAAAAAAAAH!!!! WAAAAAAAH!
Grow a set and put some substance behind your pissing and moaning. Same sh!t. Different day with you.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:07 pm
start in LF? nope. It won’t be cheap to find a LFer who hits around 800 as Prado might do.LFers don’t hit like they used to
DAP
November 29th, 2011
11:11 pm
DOB, thanks for the bloggage. i think most of us are in agreement that wren is a very good GM, and i have alot of confidence in him making good moves. bottom line, even though alot of folks feel nagativley about the team, we have many very good pieces in place. great bullpen returning, deep rotation with tons of potential, a good, young powerful, fast lineup (yeah i said it). it wouldnt be a stetch to me for the rev to start at SS and this be a very good team again next season.
im very excited about this team, even as is. i cant wait to see what wren does.
by the way, im kind of attached to prado and hope he doesnt get traded. used to feel the same way about jurrjens, but since he hasnt been there down the stretch for us the last two years, i dont feel quite as strongly about him.
N8
November 29th, 2011
11:12 pm
“I make no bones about my disdain for Pastornicky at SS! at least I don’t belittle others as if I am some lost n myself demi-god! you really are a piece of work there N8! NOT! loser!”
Did you just drop a “NOT” on me?
Uh…. OK Wayne. Game on!
And, as for the “belittling” thing? You piss and moan non-stop about a guy (Wren) who probably has more brains on a bad day than you likely do. Get over yourself.
I only “belittle” idiots and whiners. Stop falling in one of those categories and it will stop. It’s that simple.
Joey B.
November 29th, 2011
11:12 pm
nolie – If they don’t spend on a shortstop it should give them enuff green to acquire a decent 4th OFer
Yeah. This makes no sense whatsoever. Why do we need a 4th OFer? We have two above average 4th OFers on our bench. Diaz and Hinske. A LH and a RH. We won’t spend on a SS in this weak market. We’ll stick with Pastornicky, probably trade one of Prado/JJ, and trade/spend on offensive impact in LF. Could be a FA, but probably a trade for an LFer. Wren won’t let this offense slide after that collpase. Prado’s a super sub not a LFer, he’ll get replaced out there, and we’ll be better that way.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:15 pm
neither Diaz nor Heinke is a 4th OFer man. neither can play center. and
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:17 pm
and I’m not in the habit of not making sense
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:18 pm
Enter your comments here
DAP
November 29th, 2011
11:18 pm
oh, and of course extend bmac. no question about it, and hopefully we can get hom for about what chipper made in his 2nd extension from 2000-08
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
11:19 pm
Joey B
So you want to replace a guy who has OPS over .800 in 3 of his 4 seasons? Who you gonna replace him with? Name a team thats moving a guy who puts up consistent numbers or a FA that does that that doesn’t cost 10 mil plus. There isn’t one available. We have to acquire someone that can backup CF. Wren isn’t going to move Prado and JJ just for the sake of moving them. If the package isn’t a visible upgrade it won’t happen. Prado is more than your starting LF, hes your starting 3B for 20-25% of the season. Moving him opens up two holes.
Jbailz
November 29th, 2011
11:21 pm
What is everyone’s thoughts about other possible positions for Mac? I’ve seen LF, DOB said something about 1B but we have a pretty decent guy there right now, what about 3B? If we have an above average SS with good range I think Mac could be a decent 3B. We are going to have to move him if we want him to be the future of this franchise cause face it Catcher is the hardest position to play in baseball.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:22 pm
15 mil per when he is already making 11.5 with two years to go? that would be nice, but I think it might take more
DAP
November 29th, 2011
11:22 pm
i still think cody ross would be a solid addition.
uga-brave
November 29th, 2011
11:23 pm
nolie, thanks for the 7:41 post from the previous blog.
Joey B.
November 29th, 2011
11:27 pm
nolie-neither Diaz nor Heinke is a 4th OFer man. neither can play center. and
How many games is Bourn going to miss in center? Five? C’mon. Constanza can’t get called up if we really need someone to play CF, because Bourn can’t for whatever reason? Wren’s not aiming that low after a collapse of epic proportions. He’s not bringing essentially the same team back minus Gonzalez, plus Pastornicky after that September. Given his history, Frank will find a way to bring a productive starter we’ll put in LF.
DAP
November 29th, 2011
11:28 pm
nolie, chipper made over $16mil at the peak, and id like to think that would be enough $$$ per year if the number of years was right.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
11:28 pm
DAP
I agree on Ross. He makes the most sense with his skill set. With the money available hes at the top of my list.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
11:30 pm
Joey B
Listen to what Wren has said this offseason. They are going to find someone to serve as a backup in CF. Name a team that doesn’t have a backup CF option. Your not going to option up a AAA player everytime Bourn gets a day off, be serious.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:31 pm
Wren’s not aiming that low after a collapse of epic proportions….Joey B
wanna bet?
David O'Brien
November 29th, 2011
11:33 pm
The Boston Red Sox just hired Bobby Valentine to be their manager.
It is a bit difficult to imagine right now, Bobby V running the storied BoSox. Guess we’ll get used to in a hurry, though, like we do with most other changes that seem so radical initially.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:34 pm
Ross would be a decent addition.and they could likely afford him if they want to.I don’t see them adding anyone much better no matter how rude Joey gets
Wide Right
November 29th, 2011
11:34 pm
Re: McCann. The Mets faced this problem with Piazza – face of the franchise, best offensive player at Catcher. My opinion is that this an area where the Braves have the luxury of time. This decision doesn’t need to be made until the end of the year. That will give Wren time to see if Bethancourt continues this impressive rise in through the ranks, Freeman can improve upon a great start and whether McCann’s first oblique injury (at least that i can recall) is not a sign that he is breaking down already. I love McCann, want him to stay. But i think this upcoming season will allow Wren to judge whats best for the team, regardless of sentimentality.
Joey B.
November 29th, 2011
11:34 pm
nolie- wanna bet?
Well, what tells you that he is aiming that low?
Wide Right
November 29th, 2011
11:35 pm
how old is Valentine?
Jbailz
November 29th, 2011
11:38 pm
Wide Right – I agree, but I think the chances are still less than 10% they get rid of or don’t sign Mac. Even in Bethancourt is a beast and Freeman does more of the same. They would either move Mac and bring Bethancourt to catch or use him as trade bait for a big splash. I just can’t see them moving Mac because on more than one occasion it’s been referred to as “his team” after Chipper retires and the Braves aren’t above making sentimental choices.
Chris from the Rock
November 29th, 2011
11:38 pm
Wren needs to pick up a LOOGY too this winter.
Nanny
November 29th, 2011
11:40 pm
DOB, please tell me you get paid substantially more than D. Orlando Ledbetter. You consistently put out amazing and informative blogs, even during the offseason. Pop time was something I was unfamiliar with.
DLed on the other hand can’t even write a proper paragraph during the season itself, much less provide thoughtful analysis. Thanks again for the work you do, Braves fans are lucky to have you.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
11:41 pm
With Hudson having surgery I really think it makes JJ less expendable. You now how the top three of your rotation coming back from injury (Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson). I really find it hard to see them move Prado unless its a package that brings back a young CF. Detroit has one but I don’t think they’d move him.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:41 pm
I’m not sure someone like Ross is all that low. I am pretty sure that they will not pay what it will take to get a full time OFer who will hit better than Prado might, and they do need a CF backup.Heinke will play a little OF, a bit of first and PH just like last year. He is not a 4th OFer.
another approach would be a lefty like Smith to platoon in LF with Diaz when Prado is at third.
obviously you can never say “never” but a full time 800+ hitting OFer is not all that easy to come up with, they tried for years without success. and I do not see the team overreacting to the collapse with the hysteria of some fans
Jbailz
November 29th, 2011
11:42 pm
DOB – I agree with Nanny, plus you have helped my marriage by giving me somewhere to still get my Braves fix without talking my wife’s ear off about baseball. She loves it don’t get me wrong but she has her limits…
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:44 pm
old enuff to know better. Bobby V is 61, will be 62 in April
Jbailz
November 29th, 2011
11:45 pm
I’m just thankful that Bobby V isn’t a commentator anymore, that was BRUTAL!!!!
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:46 pm
I liked him as a commentator. Very knowledgeable guy
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:47 pm
but then I like Don Sutton. I am more interested in what is said than how it is said myself. I know that both are unpopular here
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
11:49 pm
Cody Ross stats (career)
vs LHP: .282/ .349/ .563/ .912
@ Turner Field: .300/ .347/ .545/ .893
Someone that can play all 3 OF positions. Spell Heyward/Bourn/Chipper against LHP on occasion.
Joey B.
November 29th, 2011
11:50 pm
nolie – and I do not see the team overreacting to the collapse with the hysteria of some fans.
Yeah. Acquiring a productive bat in LF (the easiest place to put a productive bat after watching Prado SUCK although I believe he can bounce back), after watching your team put up .308 OBP with a .387 SLG, would be a complete overreaction! Cody Ross will solve our issues!
People need to realize that Prado can still help us out a whole lot as a super sub, and we can absolutely afford to put him in that role if we can find that LFer that will give our offense a much needed boost.
Jbailz
November 29th, 2011
11:50 pm
He knows his stuff, I’ll give him that. He will always be a Mutt to me though and he was just terrible at play by play. Good at knowledge about the game though.
P'cola Brave
November 29th, 2011
11:54 pm
Joey B
You mean the team that was virtually the same team in 2010 that was one of the top teams in baseball with OBP. They removed the hitting coach who I think could of had a major effect on the OBP. Its one season that saw a lot of things go wrong, not just our hitting. I guess you’d want to move Kimbrel and Venters to since they sucked down the stretch.
Josh
November 29th, 2011
11:57 pm
Braves are not untreated in a eighty for outfield. They are looking for a lefty to platoon with Diaz. Scratch Cody Ross off the list. Seth smith is off real interest and they are still wanting Wheeler in a deal for Prado.
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:57 pm
how hard is it to understand that there is almost nobody out there who will eguarantee a big boost over what Prado supplied for three years? available 820+ LFer are few and far between and costly to acquire. I have nothing against that if it happens, but I think it is HIGHLY unlikely to happen.
gcs
November 29th, 2011
11:58 pm
McCann > Mauer
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:58 pm
yeah, play by play was not good
Wide Right
November 29th, 2011
11:58 pm
I have a question and because i am poor at math and fairly lazy, i am turning to my friends on this blog to help me out. I am a big Chipper Jones fan and I’d like him to end his career with no less than a career line of .300/.400/.500. I’d like him to be in that exclusive club, to have that on his plaque in Cooperstown. I’d much rather have a girlfriend…but this is important to me as well. He is safe on the slugging percentage….but his current career BA is .304 and OBP is .402. Assuming he can get as many AB’s in ‘12 as he got last year (126) and he retires at the end of this season that would bring him to 2413 career AB’s. Whats the lowest AVG and OBP he could have for his next 126 AB’s that would bring his average below .300 and his OBP below .400? First one to answer correctly gets absolutely nothing but i would be forever in your debt without really owing you anything. Still, i would very much appreciate knowing the answer…any help?
nolie
November 29th, 2011
11:59 pm
GG. TTFN y’all.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
12:01 am
where are you coming up with 126 at batsin 2011?and 2413 career at bats?
Joey B.
November 30th, 2011
12:01 am
P’cola Brave
No. I’d love to keep both Venters and Kimbrel. I’m just thankful you’re not our GM. The “ahh .. it’s just one season, that saw things go wrong” approach is the last thing I’d want in a GM. You don’t play with “could’s, if’s, and maybe’s”. Our two corner OFers are “if’s” right now. That’s a problem. That’s where teams get a lot there offense from, and we were terrible in those two spots last year for lack of a better term. Those corner OF spots are too vital to not go out and improve after a performance like that. I’d like to see DOB weigh in on this, for sure.
Wide Right
November 30th, 2011
12:04 am
sheet, sorry, nolie…i got AB’s mixed up with Games played. he has 8597 AB’s…assuming he can get 400 more in….
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:06 am
Sounds like SeeBass is his-to-ry in a BRAVES uni if he doesn’t go for what the BRAVES want a one year ticket out of town…….not that that’s a bad thing.
‘Jumpin’ JACK the flash’ may be the one after all.
PASTORNICKY needs more time in GWINNETT in my opinion.
HERNANDEZ and/or HICKS in 2013 will have to be moved to make room for SIMMONS if he proves out in AA this upcoming season.
I think DIORY and maybe EVAN GATTIS will be traded this upcoming season if not this winter. There doesn’t appear to be much room for either in the HOTLANTA and ‘Big’ JIM’s already 24 coming off a solid season at 1B in ROME.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
12:07 am
Joey B
I don’t want to move them either but they sucked to down the stretch. Would we all like to add a big bat? Sure but where we going to get one? We aren’t going to get Beltran, Willingham, or Cuddyer. And what bat are you going to trade for if we aren’t going to move our young pitching and JJ and Prado are at their lowest value. Its just not out there to make that big splash. They may find a guy who can start in LF but it won’t be the big name anyone is looking for.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
12:18 am
Hopefully things will pick up Monday and Tuesday next week and we will see more of the direction were heading in.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:20 am
wide right, the first step in getting better at math is starting with the right numbers! and looking at the right column goes a long way with that! :- )
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:24 am
wide right, by my calculations (im not good at math either) chipper could hit as low as .188 over his next 400 ABs and still have a career .300 average.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:28 am
wide right, i dont feel like figuring out the OBP thing right now. if you are on tomorrow, i might try to ifnd a way to figure out.
Jbailz
November 30th, 2011
12:29 am
Does anyone think Chipper isn’t a lock to be a HOF’er? I don’t know about first ballot but I think it’s pretty much a given isn’t it?
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:40 am
jbailz, yeah, its a given.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:41 am
FALL BALL
AUSTRALIA
No games scheduled.
DOMINICA
EASTERN BULLS
Lead-off CF JOSE ‘George’ CONSTANZA [.287 BA] 1-4.
3B DIORY HERNANDEZ [.245 BA] 1-3, 1 RBI [13].
RHRP JAIRO ASENCIO [0.50 ERA] 1.0 IP, airtight, 1 SO, 3 BF, 1 GO/ 0 AO.
Man, JAIRO is like the energizer bunny. He just keeps goin’ and goin, and goin’. I can’t stress enough the outstanding session he’s having in fall ball. 1 HR allowed in 17 outings and 18.0 relief innings pitched, only eight hits, four BB, and 26 SO with a .131 AvAg. Whew! The dude is on FIRE!
ESCOGIDO LIONS
1B MAURO ‘45′ GOMEZ [.152 BA] 3-5, 1 R, 1 2B [2], 1 HR [2], 4 RBI [9].
Finally, a pulse. I thought my man was dead at the plate. I’m wondering what’s up with the first base slot in GWINNETT. Maybe it’s up for grabs with both ERNESTO MEJIA and JOEY TERDOSLAVICH coming up. Could it be in the wind that his days are numbered in AAA with the BRAVES. Here’s another trade piece along with HERNANDEZ/HICKS/GATTIS for FRANK to offer for a LF bat with some juice in my estimation.
C WILKIN CASTILLO [.258 BA] 1-4, 1 R, 1 HR [2], 1 RBI [6], 1 SO
LICEY TIGERS
No BRAVES played.
ORIENTE STARS
3B DONEL LINARES [.357 BA] 1-4
PUERTO RICO
PONCE LIONS
No BRAVES played.
VENEZUELA
ANZOATEGUI INDIANS
DH STEFAN GARTRELL [.000 BA] 0-4, 1 SO.
CARACAS LIONS
No game scheduled.
LARA CARDINALS
LHRP LUIS AVILAN [3.00 ERA] 0.1 IP, 2 H, 1 R/ER, 0 BB, 1 SO, 3 BF, 0 GO/ 1 AO.
ZULIA EAGLES
1B ERNESTO MEJIA [.287 BA] 1-3, 1 BB, 1 SO.
Zing
November 30th, 2011
12:46 am
I initially liked the concept of Cody Ross until I looked up his splits and saw he was a better hitter against righties than lefties… not what the Braves need, sadly.
Zing
November 30th, 2011
12:47 am
And there’s no way Chipper doesn’t go in the HoF. Numbers justify it, and he’s especially deserving now, since so many of his peers were juiced, and he’s never been implicated or suspected whatsoever.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:50 am
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:28 am
wide right, i dont feel like figuring out the OBP thing right now. if you are on tomorrow, i might try to ifnd a way to figure out.
Not enough homers. he’ll never make it 536 and 504 look just too tall.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:51 am
Zing:
He just got lucky that’s all.
Elonbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:52 am
But what about Bobby V’s career in commentary?!?!?!
DOB, what are your thoughts on Whiskeytown’s Pneumonia?
I think it’s phenomenal.
Quick Hits: Cubs, McCann, Cespedes, Smoak, Broxton | Forex News
November 30th, 2011
12:52 am
[...] Dave O’Brien of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution wonders if the Braves will offer Brian McCann a long-term contract extension soon. The six-time All-Star will make $ 11.5MM in 2012 and the team holds a $ 12MM club option for 2013, so there’s no urgency to get a deal done at the moment. [...]
Zing
November 30th, 2011
12:55 am
rich: I don’t think so. If you look at pics of Chipper when he was a rookie and how he looks now, he’s pretty much the same person. Do the same with, say, Barry Bonds, and, uh… it’s striking. Numbers were the same from his first season on, with some decline obviously in his later years– unlike Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, McGuire, Palmeiro, et al. who had a sudden, odd power surge in their mid-30s.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:55 am
Crickets……..nice.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:58 am
Zing:
Just messin’ with ya’. You know how I feel about JONES. Go to the park and pay some respect to one of the greatest hitters to ever play the game while you still can.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
12:59 am
Time to put on my snaf-face. NYTOL.
Zing
November 30th, 2011
1:02 am
rich — Hey, no one can know 100%, and it’s a sad fact of the game today that we have to always have some lingering doubt about our sports heroes. But yeah, I’m a Chipper fan– I love his approach to hitting and his no-nonsense attitude. Lots of crazy people on this blog yack on about how great it’ll be to free up money committed to him–but the Braves are about to see their second best player ever leave them, and that’s just kind of sad, even if it’ll be time.
bulldogbubba
November 30th, 2011
1:16 am
Lets Play Ball!!!!!
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
1:21 am
I talked to Brian McCann on Facebook, saying I hopw you follow Chipper’s path and be a Brave forever. He said “god willing I will be”.
gwh
November 30th, 2011
1:31 am
David, I applaud you for recognizing McCann as the best catcher on the NL. However, I believe he is the best catcher in baseball. Period. Thus, he should resign with the Braves. Apparently, the media never sees nor appreciates his accomplishments. From June 10, 2005, McCann’s BA is .289 with 134 HR, 861 Hits and 528 RBI’s. He is a 6x All Star and 5x Silver Slugger Award Winner. Yeah, almost forgot, he also was the 2010 All Star MVP. Mauer, Avila, Wieters, Montero, Martin, Molina? They don’t measure up. Piazza and Pudge will be inducted into the Hall of Fame. There are only three catchers from the modern era in the Hall currently, Carter, Fisk and Bench. I think there’s room for three more. Sadly, I wish more people spoke better of a man that is setting a pace to reach greatness at the C2 position; arguably, the hardest position in baseball. I should know I played it in High School and College.
gwh
November 30th, 2011
1:36 am
David, I applaud you for recognizing McCann as the best catcher in the National League. However, I believe he is the best catcher in baseball. Period. Thus, Wren should resign him. Apparently, the media never sees nor appreciates his accomplishments. From June 10, 2005, McCann’s BA is .289 with 134 HR, 861 Hits and 528 RBI’s. He is a 6x All Star and 5x Silver Slugger Award Winner. Yeah, I almost forgot, he also was the 2010 All Star MVP. Mauer, Avila, Wieters, Montero, Martin, Molina? They don’t measure up. Piazza and Pudge will be inducted into the Hall of Fame. There are only three catchers from the modern era in the Hall currently, Carter, Fisk and Bench. I think there’s room for three more. Sadly, I wish more people spoke better of a man that is setting a pace to reach greatness at the C2 position; arguably, the hardest position in baseball. I should know I played it in High School and College.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
1:40 am
These are corner outfielders who OPS’s higher than .820 (what Prado averaged for 2008 thru 2010) in 2011.
These are the starters: Bautista, Braun, Berkman, Holliday, Beltran, Upton, Stanton, Cargo, Hamilton, Gordon, Pence, Hart, Quentin, Smith (yes, Seth), Joyce, Swisher and Cruz.
Some guys who were not regulars all season are: DeAza, Craig, Mayberry, Andruw, and Lillibridge.
Everybody else had less than a .820 OPS for 2011.
Some decent guys in the .750-.820 range are: Bruce, Johnson, Willingham, Francouer, Cuddyer, Boesch, Morrison, Heisey, Ethier, Lee, Parra, Hunter, Soriano, and Markakis.
And a LOT of these guys have some hidden warts that are not always easy to identify (poor defense, poor attitude, bad contract, bad splits, etc)
OK, so who is FW going to WOW with his Jurrjens/Prado offer that will make us better than having Prado return to the mean?
That’s available……….
DS1
November 30th, 2011
1:46 am
VaBravesFan
The cold hard truth is this: being a catcher, Brian has to make sure that his priorities are aligned with the Braves needs in years to come. I think he can be a life long Brave, but he probably won’t be a 130 game per year guy at some point in time.
If he is realistic in his contract demands, I don’t see any reason why he won’t be a life long Brave. And I get that feeling about him.
But we don’t want to be paying 15-18 million per year for a part time catcher in 4-5-6 years either. Unless of course he can slide over to another position.
Don’t get me wrong, I love McCann. I just think that we have to be realistic about how many more years he can play 130 game per year behind the dish.
Wide Right
November 30th, 2011
1:52 am
thanks DAP. Thats all i need to know…and yes, i am bad with math and column recognition.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:00 am
Hello everyone! Great article Dob,and right smack on!
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:02 am
I could see the Braves getting a Cody Ross,or Ryan Ludwick. Some one like that,and play Pastornicky at SS. Go the distance play the Rookie…….
Spud
November 30th, 2011
2:03 am
So is Lionel advocating that Palin catch or play short?
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:05 am
Sign Mac………save Mac………
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
2:06 am
DS1
yeah I agree. Tough spot for both sides.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
2:07 am
Spud
I think she is more likely the pitcher………
Ward
Ludwick has been on a steady decline the past few years. But I do like Cody Ross. And I LOVE Martin Prado. Mark me down as one who hopes Prado stays.
Nite folks
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:07 am
Bobby Valentine a good fit for Boston. Wonder if he has any disguises ready? Just incase he gets thrown out of the game.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:09 am
DS1- Prado,and Ross platoon. I like that idea……I’m just throwing Ludwick out there,because he’s in the price range.I wouldn’t mind Ross a Brave. he has good D.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:14 am
I could also see Carlos Quentin going to the Braves for J.J. White Sox need pitching……
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2011
2:20 am
Elonbrave: Yes, that’s a classic album. I like all of Whiskeytown’s stuff.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
2:30 am
Luis Durango
nolie
November 30th, 2011
2:30 am
anybody watched GRIMM yet?
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
2:32 am
nolie, the wife is gonna Christmas movie me to blitherage, before I get to watch it.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
2:35 am
Bautista, Braun, Berkman, Holliday, Beltran, Upton, Stanton, Cargo, Hamilton, Gordon, Pence, Hart, Quentin, Smith (yes, Seth), Joyce, Swisher and Cruz.
how many have done it three times? How many are actually available? How many could the Braves afford?
Long TIme Braves Fan
November 30th, 2011
2:36 am
What about trying out Bethancourt at Left Field?
Long TIme Braves Fan
November 30th, 2011
2:37 am
What about transitioning Bethancourt to a Left Field position and keep BMAC?
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:41 am
nolie – braves could afford a Quentin,and Swisher,and I wouldn’t mind the Braves trying to prye away Alfonzo Soriano from the Cubs. Cub are willing to trade him now.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:42 am
Alfanzo Soriano would not be a bad idea……
Ward
November 30th, 2011
2:44 am
Don’t know if I had his name spelled right,but Braves could get Alfonzo Soriano LF,and platoon with Prado.
Jay212033
November 30th, 2011
2:45 am
I hope you meant McCann in LF
Long TIme Braves Fan
November 30th, 2011
2:53 am
I have not followed Bethancourt much but from the comments by DOB, he seems to be more athletic than BMAC. I do not think BMAC can transition to LF. He is much too slow for an outfield position. I do not see Freeman giving way to BMAC either – his defensive skills at first base is just as important as the offense he offers at that position.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
3:03 am
Keep Mac,because he can still put up the numbers,and let Bethancourt mature in the minors. Keep Mac……..
Bobby Hill
November 30th, 2011
3:09 am
I think that in all likelihood McCann’s at or already past his peak. He’s logged a log of mileage already, and catchers don’t typically last as long other guys. In addition offense is cheaper to acquire at almost any other position that catcher. For a team on a tight budget it doesn’t make sense to send big money on a catcher. Simply put the money would be better spent at another position.
But there are business reasons why keeping McCann makes sense. He’s a fan favorite, a team leaders and a fairly marketable guy.
I’m sure the Twins regret the Mauer contract.
P B Orr
November 30th, 2011
3:39 am
I can’t stand McCann. His defense is terrible and he’s delusional about his ability to swing a giant bat. He regularly folds in August and September. He’s got weight problems, can’t see, and is stubborn as a mule. He’s not clutch and no fun to watch. It all adds up to rapidly developing mediocrity. Deal him while you can get something for him!
Ward
November 30th, 2011
3:39 am
All have a good night,and peace……..
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
4:01 am
About the comparison to Joe Mauer……
He’s headed to first base. In fact, Mauer saw eighteen games of action at first base just this past season. Mauer will also see some time as the twinkies DH. So his days as a catcher are coming to an end.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
November 30th, 2011
4:21 am
Great article by Tim Kurkjian on espn.com about Bobby Valentine:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7296774/mlb-red-sox-one-kind-bobby-valentine
I’m even more impressed with Bobby V. after reading this. He is EXACTLY what the Braves need. Yet we stuck with the Goober, Fredo Gonzalez.
NickB
November 30th, 2011
4:47 am
Umm, most catchers wear down in Aug and Sep. Statistically McCann was one of the top 5 defensive catchers in the NL last year and replacing his production at catcher would be impossible…so no, we shouldn’t be moving him just yet there P B Orr
Stinger2
November 30th, 2011
4:53 am
IMHO, McCann is a defensive liability. I would not be in favor of signing him to a long term high $$$ contract.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
5:15 am
Yes, Brian McCann regressed on defense this past season. However, I believe this was due to injury. Mac wasn’t healthy after his oblique strain. But his perennial silver slugger status elevates McCann’s overall game to the point that he can’t be improved upon. Now or in the near future.
Jeff R
November 30th, 2011
5:19 am
I think Wren is going to be very careful about signing McCann to a long term deal similar – or more significant – then the deal given to Chipper. Wear and tear is a fact of life for most catchers as they enter their thirties, McCann isn’t going to be an exception (given his late injury history).
And play McCann at first, when the Braves have Freeman? Wouldn’t make sense.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:20 am
McCann was in the top 5 defensive catchers, voted # 3 in NL by BBA. y’all are freakin’ nuts with all the bitching about his D
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:22 am
BEST DEFENSIVE CATCHER
1. Yadier Molina, Cardinals
2. Carlos Ruiz, Phillies
3. Brian McCann, Braves
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:30 am
Where have all the alter egos gone, lomg time passing?
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:33 am
McFANN…….McFANN you should be here.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:33 am
long time passing till they come back, we can hope rich
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:35 am
So nolie, are you like me? Fall askeep at the keyboard and wake up with your fingers typing?
GermanBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
5:36 am
Alfonso Soriano… why not? Supposedly, the Cubs are willing to pay a large part of his salary… Sounds like he had a decent year last season!
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
5:38 am
nolie’s wrong again.
Check the numbers you old goat. Mac threw out thirty percent of potential base stealer’s in 2010. 36 out of 84 runners, and regressed in 2011 by giving up 104 stolen bases while throwing out just twenty-two percent. His errors did improve from 14 down to 5 but Mac started 11 fewer games.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:39 am
What do you make of this need to improve the line-up? It seems to me that standing pat in LF and letting PASTORNICKY ‘improve’ the SS slot doesn’t get it as far as stability of the franchise goes. The money box we’re apparantly in is pretty unpalatable as well.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:41 am
I’ll pass on Soriano. They are unlikely to pay enough since he is owed 18 mil per for three more years.until he is 38. terrible contract
GermanBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
5:43 am
I guess that at that rate, he is too expensive…
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:45 am
I am not wrong. I told you exactly what BBA said about him and they know a hell of a lot more about it than you do.
and basing it on runners caught? a stat that is highly dependent on the pitcher?
give me a freaking break coach
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:47 am
I don’t know rich. Like most here I’d like to see a significant improvement, but I’ll believe it when I see it.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:48 am
COACH:
So are you saying that McCANN would or should have had 8 E in those 11 games? Not probable I think. Possible, but not likely.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
5:50 am
coach is being coach, rich
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
5:54 am
I’m saying what I said at 5:15, Mac was hurt and it showed. Teams ran at will against our Braves in the second half of the season. The 2011 Braves gave up 128 stolen bases which was second worst in the NL behind Houston’s 131. The 2011 Braves also stole 77 bases, which again, was ranked 14th in the NL out of 16 teams. 2011 was an awful fundamental season for our Braves on the base paths, period.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:55 am
Looking at last year, we made a major move PDQ getting UGGLA. Without any corresponding action this off-season, I’m inclined to agree that we have the need but short of paying out some serious monies, we don’t improve the LF slot by much. It’s all about the money in the final analysis it seems.
I sure wish ADAM MILLIGAN could stay healthy. I think we could have had the answer to cutting this Gordian Knot otherwise.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
5:57 am
COACH:
Would a pectoral injury to a starting catcher cause the opposition to increase their base-stealing attempts?
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
6:01 am
Would a pectoral injury to a starting catcher cause the opposition to increase their base-stealing attempts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
I have no idea because Mac injured his oblique which contributed to his poor defense at throwing out base runners.
Braveone
November 30th, 2011
6:06 am
From the previous blog which had 5,030 comments, nolie led the way with 462 posts. There were 260 different poster names. Here are the Top 25:
Rank Poster Frequency
1 nolie 462
2 Efrim 405
3 cabravesfan 304
4 Ward 284
5 JoeBrave 210
6 jeffrey d 201
7 TnBrian 146
8 Lew 145
9 Tom O’Hawke 144
10 Venice Jim 120
11 CB 109
12 DS1 106
13 McFann O O o 91
14 keyLargo 91
15 ncscoots 89
16 Bat Masterson 85
17 Arkansas Transplant 80
18 Murph 80
19 Trey 79
20 VaBravesFan 76
21 RC 71
22 richbrave 66
23 DAP 61
24 David O’Brien 60
25 TennesseePaul 55
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
6:08 am
COACH:
“……..I have no idea because Mac injured his oblique which contributed to his poor defense at throwing out base runners………”
Was that a statement or a question?
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
6:10 am
Both.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
6:14 am
COACH:
It seems to me that a logical extension of an oblique or pectoral injury to a catcher would cause the opposition to increase the pressure on that weakness by sending baserunners more than under normal circumstances, and that might have caused the uptick in the stats you’ve quoted. I think if I were managers around the league, I would start out 2012 by trying more of the same just to see where events currently stand.
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
6:18 am
COACH:
Would you vote for McCANN for a Gold Glove?
Heh! Just kidding. I’m guessinbg not.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
6:30 am
NO.
reason
November 30th, 2011
6:32 am
Not only is this a Weird comment about Palin, what has it to do with the Braves or Baseball.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
6:35 am
Also, I have no problem with the Braves resigning McCann to a five year deal beyond 2012. Which would lock Mac up through 2017. I also don’t understand the reluctance to move catchers to third base.
Just for reference: Joe Torre, Johnny Bench, B.J. Surhoff, Todd Zeile, Phil Nevin and recently Brandon Inge all made the transition.
old man
November 30th, 2011
6:44 am
1. Hudson’s surgery does not rule out a JJ trade. It perhaps ups the ante on what you need in return.
2. If the McCutcheon report are true, you have to make a run at him. Totally unlike Tex–we would have team control for 4 years. We would have to include one of our big young arms.
3. I would not rule out Cody Ross. But we need a big upgrade at either LF or SS. With Simmons in the wings, LF seems more likely, and Ross is not the big upgrade.
Bill M.
November 30th, 2011
7:06 am
McCann is not worth 15M per year. Now is the time to trade him. He’s not a good catcher and the only other position would be DH. How about this trade with Detroit? Braves get Avila, Young & 3rd base prospect. Tigers get McCann, Prado & Venters. Keep JJ. Avila is a good young catcher and if Bethancourt is ready in 2yrs. they could trade one of them. About the only thing that McCann does is that he’s a great hitter. Braves would be giving up alot but I think it would benefit both teams. Young’s defense is not good but enough for LF.
Couch Tater
November 30th, 2011
7:11 am
Bobby Valentine to Red Sox. Hmmm…
The arrival of Japanese players should make everyone rich, at least in a fair system, and it’s why shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima and outfielder Norichika Aoki plan to post this offseason. Nakajima has hit .300 in six consecutive seasons. Aoki has won three batting titles. Adding [Yu] Darvish would make this the best class in posting history – November 15, Jeff Passan, Yahoo
Jeff R
November 30th, 2011
7:30 am
“Also, I have no problem with the Braves resigning McCann to a five year deal beyond 2012. Which would lock Mac up through 2017.”
– Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
Geez, I do. The Braves’ aren’t exactly cash-flush – if they are, they aren’t putting the dough into payroll.
And catchers are notorious for breakdowns as their careers progress. Do the Braves want to invest a lot of money in a player – as good as McCann is – who’s already been slowed by injuries over a couple of seasons and is heading into his thirties?
JRW
November 30th, 2011
7:43 am
I don’t see why everyone believes McCann should give the Braves a “Hometown” discount. This Guy has worked hard at becoming one of the best at his position to earn his bonus money and a shot at the “Big Payday”. If someone wants to pay him why should he be expected to take millions less for the Braves and Liberty Media? While I’m sure he enjoys playing in his Hometown area. He can always retire back to Georgia after he collects his $80-100Mil for 5 years somewhere else.
old man
November 30th, 2011
7:48 am
“How about this trade with Detroit? Braves get Avila, Young & 3rd base prospect. Tigers get McCann, Prado & Venters.”
Why would Detroit give us this young catcher, with years of team control:
.295 .389 .506 .895
For this catcher who gets paid a ton and will want a bigger contract right away:
.270 .351 .466 .817
If I’m Detroit, I’m not sure I do that, not at all.
But it certainly illustrates the problem with BMac.
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
7:52 am
Let me break it down for you sheep: If the Braves resign McCann and he continues catching they care nothing about winning world series rings.
I’d much rather have a good defensive catcher that can’t hit.
Plus, think about him making north of $15M and still having opposing players running at will… Seriously? At some point loyalists need to cut bait.
Lastly, in memory of his MLB leading 104 stolen bases allowed last year.. How about signing him to a $104M/6 contract, eh?
old man
November 30th, 2011
7:52 am
I’m certainly open to trading McCann, and Avila looks good, but it would have to be McCann plus another very good piece to get them to do it. How is Avila’s defense? I’m too lazy to look it up.
Jeff R
November 30th, 2011
7:54 am
McCann might be willing to cut a deal somewhat beneficial to the Braves’ bottom line to stay in Atlanta. I was surprised that Uggla didn’t test the market last winter, preferring to accept the Braves’ offer to be nearer to home (or so was the report, as I recall).
But that’s not a given. McCann may want to leverage everything he’s accomplished for a bigger contract, especially in the AL, where the DH gives him more flexibility.
Let's Go
November 30th, 2011
8:08 am
Give McCann a 4 year deal that takes him thru 2016 and then let him go DH in the AL. Heck by then the DH might be in NL too. Prado’s trade value will never be higher then it is now so if you can get a good return pull the trigger. Same with JJ since you have to figure a long term deal is out of the question at this point.
dap01
November 30th, 2011
8:28 am
Trade for Lillibridge and call it an offseason.
JoeFan
November 30th, 2011
8:35 am
Baseball is a business. Whether McCann stays or goes depends on whether he remains productive and the progress of Bethancourt. Hope the Braves have learned their lesson and want throw millions at McCann just because they are sentimental.
dap01
November 30th, 2011
8:36 am
Put Hicks at starting SS for 2012. He can play defense very well. His offense is ok for a #8 hitter. Sign Wilson for backup. If Hicks catches fire, that is great. If he does not, bring up Pastornicky in late June.
Couch Tater
November 30th, 2011
8:50 am
…and his agent is B B Abbott.
@danconnollysunDan Connolly
INF Cesar Izturis won’t b back with #Orioles, but at 31 wants to play & is seeking a big-lgue deal. Sevral teams interested, his agent says
Hail Cesar minimus onbasemus:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/i/izturce01.shtml
Lemke's Knuckler
November 30th, 2011
8:53 am
The McCann contract issue will work itself out between now and 2014. We still have the best offensive catcher in baseball for at least two more seasons. Let’s enjoy that right now.
Plus you have to keep in mind that other than Uggla, the Braves don’t have another big contract on the books beyond 2013. At least not yet…we have a lot of first-time arbitration eligibles next year including Heyward, Hanson, Medlen and Venters. This team has survived on a marginal payroll for the past 3-4 years with big numbers for Lowe and Chipper.
Honestly, the cure all would be a $110MM payroll, and that would take new ownership.
STRETCH
November 30th, 2011
8:55 am
Tater,
Where did you hear that? If so, wonder what it would take to pick him up?
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:01 am
VaBravesFan I talked to Brian McCann on Facebook, saying I hopw you follow Chipper’s path and be a Brave forever. He said “god willing I will be”.
Awesome sauce.
TennesseePaul
November 30th, 2011
9:01 am
Thanks for the blog DOB. I appreciate all the work.
DOB: “[McCann] who’s become a team leader and the best-hitting catcher in the NL (and arguably best in the majors, at least until Minnesota’s Joe Mauer can stay healthy or Detroit’s Alex Avila has more years like the one he just had)?”
Or Victor Martinez who happens to have a very similar line to McCann and has been at it for a longer period of time.
__________AVG__OBP__SLG__OPS_OPS+_XBH(avg)
Martinez .303 .370 .469 .840 122 __59
McCann__ .286 .358 .486 .844 122 __62
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:07 am
PBOrr His defense is terrible and he’s delusional about his ability to swing a giant bat. He regularly folds in August and September. He’s got weight problems…
No, it’s not; no, he isn’t; no, he doesn’t; no, he doesn’t.
…can’t see, and is stubborn as a mule.
Yes, he cann; no, he’s not—where’d you even come up with that one?
He’s not clutch and no fun to watch.
Yes, he is, on both accounts—only time he really wasn’t fun was after his injury last year…the eye stuff in the past wasn’t great either, obviously, but that’s all…
It all adds up to rapidly developing mediocrity.
You’re a bit of a whiner, aren’t you, dear?…
Lemke's Knuckler
November 30th, 2011
9:08 am
“Or Victor Martinez who happens to have a very similar line to McCann and has been at it for a longer period of time.”
He’s only caught more than 100 games once since 2007. He’s not a full-time catcher, hasn’t been for years.
Ease
November 30th, 2011
9:08 am
Just not exclusively at catcher. Martinez gets the added benefit of playing the occasional DH/1B.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:09 am
Jeff R McCann isn’t going to be an exception (given his late injury history).
“History”? He had one oblique strain…
Couch Tater
November 30th, 2011
9:12 am
Stretch – Dan Connolly, Baltimore Sun.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:14 am
Bill M. Tigers get McCann, Prado & Venters.
HECK yeah! Why don’t we toss in Kimbrel and Freeman, too!…
phoenix
November 30th, 2011
9:14 am
Just curious…why didn’t DOB comment on McCann’s atrocious defense?
DAP
November 30th, 2011
9:16 am
zing I initially liked the concept of Cody Ross until I looked up his splits and saw he was a better hitter against righties than lefties…
if that were true, hed be a perennial MVP candidate. he has a career .912 OPS vs lefties, nearly 200 points higher than his OPS vs righties.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:17 am
why didn’t DOB comment on McCann’s atrocious defense?
‘Cause it’s an image that some folks have built up in their minds and doesn’t really exist.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 30th, 2011
9:20 am
Dayton Moore is assembling quite the bullpen over in KC: Soria, Broxton, Crow, Collins, Holland, Wood, Coleman.
Too bad their young starting pitchers (Montgomery, Lamb, Odorizzi) aren’t ready yet.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
9:23 am
I’m sorry, did I read 16 million a year for 5-6 years for McCann AFTER 2013? So a six year deal from 2014-2019? 2019 will be McCann’s age 35 year old season.
Victor Martinez signed a 4 year deal on the free agent market last year for 50 million. He was 31 years old when he signed the deal and 2011 was his age 32 year old season. I know it’s a tad different because V-Mart was more of a 1st baseman/DH/C when he signed it, but isn’t that more of a reason not to overpay and give Mac 15-16 million per year?
He makes 11.5 million in 2011 and 12 million in 2013. If he has a .850ish year, I’d try to get him signed for 62.5 million over five years – 2013-2017 with a 12.5 million club option for 2018(2.5 million buyout). That means the total AAV is 13 million – 65 million over five seasons taking him through his age 33 year old season.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
9:25 am
by my calculations (im not good at math either) chipper could hit as low as .188 over his next 400 ABs and still have a career .300 average.
also, if chipper sees 500 plate appearances next season, he needs to reach safely 175 times, or a .350 OBP in order to maintain his career .400 OBP.
the average looks like a lock, because i dont see chipper ever hitting as low as .188. the OBP is a little trickier, but he should be able to do it. last seasons was his worst OBP season ever, and he did .344, so not a too difficult task for him.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
9:26 am
96 million from 2014-2019….or 119.5 million over the next 8 seasons? Yeesh. No thanks.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:26 am
Efrim—
Sounds good. And by that time, he’ll be ready to take over for DRoss, DRoss cann then become our manager, and Bethancourt cann come up and share the catching duties with BMac!
That’s how I would play it.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
9:27 am
why didn’t DOB comment on McCann’s atrocious defense?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Because, this blog is absolutely correct and the rest of reality has been altered
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
9:28 am
Dayton Moore is assembling quite the bullpen over in KC: Soria, Broxton, Crow, Collins, Holland, Wood, Coleman.
Loaded bullpen. Apparently, Crow is moving to the starting rotation – but they have Jeremy Jeffress to take his place.
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
9:30 am
DOB doesn’t care about things like leading all of MLB with 104 stolen bases allowed! He has much more important stats to produce like the average number of toilet paper rolls Mac goes through in a week.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:32 am
“You are a sad, strange little man. And you have my pity—Farewell!…”
Ease
November 30th, 2011
9:32 am
And that folks is why McFann is gonna be a real smart lady one day
Leon
November 30th, 2011
9:35 am
“We have a society in which money is increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few people, and in which that concentration of income and wealth threatens to make us a democracy in name only.” Paul Krugman
Paul Krugman is a liar. Money is increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few people under all forms of collectivization – such as Medieval Feudalism – and today’s Marxism. Concentration of money in the hands of a few people (think about the Pigs of Animal Farm) is the very definition of collectivization – the opposite of Free Enterprise – where the “little people” get to keep the fruit of their own labor instead of having it collectivized (forcefully collected) by government (a small group of other people after all). Blaming Free Enterprise for property inequality is a huge Orwellian lie – a Big Lie which Marxists – like Krugman – keep repeating. Marxists will never stop lying about money and property – because they want. your money and property – via collectivization.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:36 am
Thank you, Ease!
Wait…what do you mean “one day”…?
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
9:41 am
Welcome to Atlanta Braves baseball where a single/walk has a very good chance of becoming a runner in scoring position!
Wait. You mean to tell me the most important stat in wins/losses is still runs allowed vs runs scored? Say it ain’t so.
The Mick
November 30th, 2011
9:41 am
No NO No Do not trade Prado. He would be an untouchable…He is to valuable to the Braves.. He can help Atlanta at any position.. The man had a decent season and Wren thinks Prado is losing his value to the team. Give me a break..The Braves have made some stupid trades in the past but if Martin is traded. This will be the biggest mistake they ve ever made.Bummer. Chipper will not play a complete season next year . Who will u put on 3rd ?
Sign Mac for 5- 6 years..He is worth it.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
9:42 am
I would not sign McCann to a six year deal starting at age 30 for 96 million….
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
9:46 am
9 years, 198 million for Pujols was the offer in January. 22 million a year, which would tie him for 12th in baseball for AAV. Pujols = 12th in baseball. I think he’ll get a little more than that from the Cards, but not by all that much.
Blackberry Cobbler
November 30th, 2011
9:50 am
What the Braves have in McCann is a very good hitting catcher but a weak catcher defensively.
Whether it’s Bethancourt or someone else, I’d trade McCann for a much better defensive catcher if you could also get a good bat to replace his.
That would be at least 1 upgrade and possibly 2.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
9:53 am
Gimpah & McError
Obviously you don’t know much about SB if you blame them all on McCann. The Braves had two pitchers that were so slow to the plate it was ridiculous in Lowe and Hanson. Hanson was stole on more than any other pitcher because of that hitch in his delivery leaving McCann basically zero time to throw. He had his share of bad throws as most catchers but a lot of the SB last year were off pitchers not B-mac
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
9:56 am
I see McCann hitting his whole career, Guy is a special player. I really hope he stays for a long time. But I do understand the concerns with wear and tear plus the money it would cost to keep him. But my impression is that Brian wants to be a Brave. Could yall imagine how bad our offense would be if we had league average production from the catchers spot?
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:01 am
P’Cola—
Gallant effort on your part—but that guy’s not worth two key strokes. He doesn’t listen to reason…when it comes to BMac and Chipper, anyway…
Joey
November 30th, 2011
10:02 am
I say trade Mac while his value is so high. Most Braves fans know he is a liability defensively, some of our better pitchers prefer Ross calling games, and he is one steaky hitter. I know, all hitters are streaky, but Mac’s have more extreme highs and lows.
Trade him, and let the kid and Ross take the plate.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
10:02 am
The sheer stupidity of bloggers as to McCann’s value as a catcher are mind blowing. Listen to baseball people you dip sticks. They will tell you that Mac is one of the better game callers in baseball, and that while he is not a stellar defensive catcher, he is probably one of the best 6-7 catchers in the game today.
And stolen bases are NOT a necessity for a team’s success. And they do NOT define a catcher’s defensive capabilities.
dap01
Great idea on Lillibridge. He could play CF and SS as needed. Great bench addition if you could pry him away from the White Sox.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:04 am
I think it helped Mauer’s push for a big contract that he was in the AL with the DH available.
Bill M.
November 30th, 2011
10:05 am
McFann 00o— You must have taken a smart pill this morning. As I stated the Braves would be giving up alot but they would have a better balanced team. I like McCann but he’s a horrible defensive catcher and can’t run a lick. He can’t stay away from the fast foods. He’s not worth 15M a year, never. I am concerned about his vision & weight on down the line.
brian
November 30th, 2011
10:06 am
good point VaBraves Fan – DOB brings up good points and areas of critical thinking by the powers that be in the Braves organization. Big decision will be next offseason after judging the progress of bethancourt.
I want McCann to be a lifelong Brave. His bat, though, is too good/too important for him to be a full time catcher his whole career due to the everyday wear and tear of catching. With Freddie at 1B there is not a place for BMAC there. BMAC is too slow to play LF (can you say Pat Burrell?). It would be an interesting thought if BMAC could learn 3B as some older catchers have done where BMAC takes over for Chipper eventually with Bethancourt sliding in at catcher.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:06 am
Joey some of our better pitchers prefer Ross calling games
Cite your source. I wanna see quotes.
And if you’re going to bring in that stuff about Ross being JJ’s, no Timmy’s PC, that was Fredi’s doing. Yes, they both like Ross, but they never said they preferred him to BMac.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
10:07 am
McCann isn’t going to be traded. He will be resigned at a reasonable rate and he will remain a Brave for at least the forseeable future.
His defense is NOT terrible as most seem to think. He’s the best hitting catcher in the NL (at the very least), a perrenial All Star and I see nothing to suggest he would even care to test the Free Agent waters if he could stay a Brave.
The Braves don’t have a better replacement and can’t find one cause he’s already the best. Betancourt is only at HIgh A and despite the show he put on in Arizona, has NEVER hit for that much power in the minors and has been, in fact, a pretty substandard offensive player with a quite low OBP. It will be years before he is ready for prime time IF he actually follows his success in Arizona with more of the same.
Resign McCann and be done with it. It is the right thing to do for all the right reasons. Keep in mind that even Yogi managed to play LF late in his career.
phoenix
November 30th, 2011
10:09 am
It isn’t just stolen bases. It’s game calling, ball blocking, tagging out runners at home plate, etc. McCann gives up about as many runs as he drives in over a season’s time. Yes, he’s a gifted hitter, as catchers go. But he’s offense only, at a key defensive position. A classic DH.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:09 am
DS1
Agreed. Its been stated several times that McCann is a good game caller. There have been games that hes called that have been great but at times he does baffle me with the pitches he called. McCann was never hyped as an elite defensive catcher but his capabilities are sufficient especially given his offense. The pitchers hurt him a lot last year.
When it comes to our catchers I personally advocate for a personal catcher like Maddux had back in the day. Let McCann catch 4 of the pitchers and Ross take one so McCann stays fresh with McCann catching the other pitcher on occasion to keep him familiar.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:09 am
Today is the day that free agents must decide whether to accept arbitration offers from their old teams – Buster Olney
I thought they got two weeks until December 7th?
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
10:11 am
Lew- exactly….. I cant believe all the crazy talk of trading McCann…
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:12 am
He will be resigned at a reasonable rate and he will remain a Brave for at least the forseeable future.
What happens if his agent and Brian think 16-17 million a year for 6-7 years(after his 2013 option expires) is a “reasonable rate”?
I’m just trying to play Devil’s Advocate here.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:15 am
Efrim
This is off the foxsports website.
Dec. 7, 2011 •Last date for player who declared free agency to accept an arbitration offer from former club. Deadline is midnight ET
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
10:15 am
Obviously you don’t know much about SB if you blame them all on McCann. The Braves had two pitchers that were so slow to the plate it was ridiculous in Lowe and Hanson.
And now that Lowe’s gone? Guess you could always blame it on the umpire or perhaps the dude hawking peanuts in the stands?
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:15 am
Bill M. You must have taken a smart pill this morning.
Oh, thank you!
Nah, sorry for being a little rude back there…
I like McCann but…
Famous last words.
he’s a horrible defensive catcher and can’t run a lick. He can’t stay away from the fast foods. He’s not worth 15M a year, never.
Share the love. He’s not horrible on D—never claimed he was the best, but he’s NOT as bad as folks give him credit for. And catchers are slow, dangit! I know our latest BFF Bethancourt cann apparently run well, but he’s young—if he becomes a full-time catcher in the Big Leagues, he’s gonna slow down when he gets older. No, BMac’s never been a fast runner, but that’s not altogether necessary at his position. And the fast food thing? Come on…you don’t know that for a fact (do you…?). And he’s just a big guy—don’t think he’s ever gonna look like Timmy, if that’s what you guys want…
I am concerned about his vision…on down the line.
Yeah, I am a little bit, too, but hopefully it’s all under control.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
10:16 am
old man I would not rule out Cody Ross. But we need a big upgrade at either LF or SS
my position has been to get cody ross as a 4th OF type, likely to get plenty of ABs, have have payroll space available for the 2012 offseason, when there will be lots of those big LF upgrades available.
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
10:18 am
It isn’t just stolen bases. It’s game calling, ball blocking, tagging out runners at home plate, etc. McCann gives up about as many runs as he drives in over a season’s time. Yes, he’s a gifted hitter, as catchers go. But he’s offense only, at a key defensive position. A classic DH.
BINGO!
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:19 am
I maybe drinking the Koolaid but…
I can’t believe People are ripping B-Macc’s Defense…He is a lot better behind the plate than most people give him credit for…He has come a long way on his defense as compared to when he came up in 2005…
Its not his Fault that Opposing teams run at will on our pitchers because they suck at holding runners on (Especially Double J and Big Red)
28 other teams would love to have a B-Macc behind the Dish…So Now Tell That!
Lew
November 30th, 2011
10:20 am
VaBravesFan – New day, same old sh–. Always a good bit of idiocy being exhibited by plenty of the walking clueless, here.
TennesseePaul
November 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Martinez gets the added benefit of playing the occasional DH/1B.
So does every other AL catcher who can hit worth a lick. To begin his career he was a catcher who over 6+ years produced .299/.369/.465/.835 line primarely as a catcher. He was last a full time catcher in 2010 when he accumulated 86% of his plate appearaces as a catcher. Last year was the first year he was primarely a non-Catcher (2009 he spent the majority of his time –54%– as a catcher).
Now he’s at the age where he doesn’t catch as often… the age where this blog speculates McCann will be someday…. moving a great hitting catcher to a non-catching position. The point mainly being that Victor Martinez was/is a good hitting player who catches. Like McCann, Mauer, and so on. Personally, I don’t leave him out of the list but can understand why other would. At any rate he’s still a good hitter.
That post wasn’t a “gotcha” post. Just pointing out Victor Martinez is/was a great hitting catcher.
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
10:20 am
Efrim
I think the Braves will try and work somthing out after the 2012 season. I see Brain taking a small discount and will work with Braves to get something done, he really wants to be Brave forever.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:21 am
No way In Hell We Trade B-Macc!
The Dude will be an ICON in a few years!
B-Macc Will take a Hometown Discount to stay in The “A’, Bank On It!
It would be a Cardinal Sin if B-Macc Were to “Sell Out” To a team Like WhineBrenner and The Yankees….
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:21 am
my position has been to get cody ross as a 4th OF type
I wouldn’t mind that at all. Still have no idea as to why Matt Diaz is on this roster….especially if Cody Ross or another RH hitting outfielder is acquired. Diaz can’t play CF, can’t really play a corner well, and hasn’t been the same Matt Diaz he was in 2009.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:22 am
D.O.B.
I’m Not sure if this has been discussed on here but…Are you a fan of Christmas music…?
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:23 am
Cody Ross = Slop
Josh Willingham = Slop
Id rather the FO stand Pat and count on both Martini and J-Hey having bounce-back years as opposing into bringing in Marginal outfielders…
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:24 am
It’s game calling, ball blocking, tagging out runners at home plate, etc. McCann gives up about as many runs as he drives in over a season’s time.
Prove it.
Murph
November 30th, 2011
10:24 am
Funny how quickly people forget the show that McCann put on after his little coaching session with his brother… and how that only really came to an end when he got hurt.
Catchers like BMac don’t come along too often. Sure, he is slightly, um, challenged on the basepaths. He doesn’t throw out every runner who tries to swipe a base. But when it comes down to it, BMac a great talent.
I like to kid McFann about the imminent arrival of Bethancourt, but even I can’t imagine a scenario where BMac doesn’t get a 5 year contract extension. With Chipper entering into the last year of his deal (most likely), BMac is absolutely essential to this team going forward as the young rookies start to get their feet under them.
I like Bethancourt a lot, but it’s not his time yet. He needs more cooking.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:25 am
Im not for this move but…
I’m Suprised No one has mentioned Raul “The Gimp” Ibanez as a Cheap option to play LF…The dude doesn’t hit against anyone but Atlanta in which he tears us up in clutch situations….
TennesseePaul
November 30th, 2011
10:25 am
I know it’s a tad different because V-Mart was more of a 1st baseman/DH/C when he signed it, but isn’t that more of a reason not to overpay and give Mac 15-16 million per year?
It is. V-Mart was coming off a season in which he caught primarily. He spent the majority of his 2010 catching and only 70 plate appearances as a non-catcher. But when he signed his “big deal” he was utilized in the 1B?DH/C role. Not something an NL catcher could easily do and not really an easy bargaining point for an NL catcher such as McCann.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:26 am
@Murph…
Co-Sign on that 10:24 POST…
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:26 am
McCann is my favorite Brave. However, I’m not overpaying him to play part time catcher/first baseman in his mid-thirties. I understand that long term contracts for guys in their 30’s is always a risk, but with catcher it’s even moreso, and I’d like to think that him being a Brave and a face of this franchise won’t require Wren to pay him more than 15 a year until he’s like 36 years old. I sure as heck hope not.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:26 am
Gimpah & McError
Look up the stats.
While Hanson was on the mound 30 of 33 stolen base attempts were successful (safe 91%).
While Lowe was on the mound 26 of 30 stolen base attempts were successful (safe 87%).
With the remaining pitchers on the mound 48 out of 70 attempts where successful (safe 69%).
So with out Hanson and Lowe on the mound he threw out 31% of baserunners. Thats a pretty good number..
DAP
November 30th, 2011
10:26 am
efrim, if you are referring to my comment about mccann getting an extension similar to chipper’s 2nd (not sure if you are or not) , ill admit its not a great comparison. the differences are, chipper was two years younger when he signed his, chipper was coming off an MVP season, also, mccann plays a more exclusive position, and baseball contracts are generally more $$$ then they were back then.
im not sure what he would go for. would your opinion change on 6 years $96mil if year 1 replaced his 2013 option? the contract would take him through age 34.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:28 am
Bill M.
“McFann 00o— You must have taken a smart pill this morning. As I stated the Braves would be giving up alot but they would have a better balanced team. I like McCann but he’s a horrible defensive catcher and can’t run a lick. He can’t stay away from the fast foods.”
My Yellow Carcas finds that amusing! lol, Didn’t B-Macc Drop around 20 pounds last offseason…
Man, some of you guys are Killing B-Macc, Ouch!
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:29 am
T-Hawk
We are talking about Ross as a 4th OF. We need someone who could back up CF and start on occasion. He has a great track record hitting in Atlanta and has solid career numbers against LHP which is something we need with two LH OF and a 3B who tends to have more pain hitting from the right side. He fits the mold perfectly for the money we have available.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:29 am
P’Cola Brave
BAM!!!
That 10:26 Post Was On Point!
Co-Sign!
veaserva
November 30th, 2011
10:30 am
The Braves signing Brain McCann to a long term contract extension is a no brainer . The Braves are suffering from the lack of good hitting already . As a fan and season ticket holder losing McCann would be unexceptionable .
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
10:31 am
Ok Back to the J.O.B.
Check U guys in 90 minutes…
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
10:31 am
Thanks for the blog, DOB
Sorry about the blog, McFann
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
10:32 am
McCann will be basically taking over Chipper’s salary on the payroll.
Rick
November 30th, 2011
10:33 am
I agree his defense is not great, but I will take it with his level of offensive production. Can you imagine the Braves without him the lineup? He’s arguably their best hitter. Saying he gives up as many runs as he drives in is a huge exaggeration too.
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
10:35 am
Brian McCann is a franchise player, they should sign him to a long-term contract, and that 6 year 90 million contract that Chipper sign might be what they should offer McCann.
The move of the Astros to the AL, means interleague all year long, I heard 29 games(half at AL parks) so around 15 games where NL teams can use a DH.
Now I bring this up, because when Bethancourt is ready, which will be 3-4 years from now, there is a way they can use them both quite a bit.
McCann is one of the most durable catchers around, averaging 137 games per season. That is a lot for a catcher, and more than once we’ve seen him had a bad September, but Cox and now Fredi Gonzalez need to keep him in the lineup since he is such a threat offensively.
Catcher is such a taxing and dangerous position, that it’s no surprise when he is tired. His career stats before the Allstar break include a 296 AVG and an 867 OPS. After the break, 275 AVG and an 818 OPS. If he had adequate rest, there is a better chance he can keep those first half numbers or better all year long.
Since from 2013 on, NL teams will have 14-15 games where they can use the DH, it will help McCann get some extra rest and still be in the lineup. He’ll get around 15 days off per year, and could sub Freddy Freeman for 15 games per year at 1B. That means, he’ll be able to catch 115 games per year, but play 145.
He’ll probably be able to do that with no issues until he is 33 years old. If he is able to pick up 1B, then Braves could decide on trading Freeman or keeping both and giving both of them more days off. For example now McCann would play 20 at 1B, 15 at DH, and 20 days off, giving Bethancourt a chance to catch 55 games in his first year in the big league’s under McCann’s tutelage.
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
10:36 am
McCann will be basically taking over Chipper’s salary on the payroll.
Translation: The same people that had no problem with Chipper hogging up a large part of the payroll while killing the team defensively will feel the same about Mac. Do whatever it takes to resign ‘our boy’ and the ‘team’ be damned!
I mean, who cares about such things as world series rings? Everyone knows the good (housekeeping) clubhouse award is all that really matters in Atlanta.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:37 am
Not something an NL catcher could easily do and not really an easy bargaining point for an NL catcher such as McCann.
Totally agree and I hope Wren uses this in negotiations.
And the premise “well, who cares if it’s 13 million a year or 16 million a year” – that matters a heck of a lot to me if they are keeping the same 90-95 million dollar payroll for the forseeable future.
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
10:38 am
I agree his defense is not great, but I will take it with his level of offensive production. Can you imagine the Braves without him the lineup?
Yeah! Imagine not having to score the runs Mac gives up at catcher. Remember, the game is won or lost by one run and everything else is just padding your stats.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:38 am
jeffrey d—
Haha! Thanks…
I’m taking a lot of grains of salt with some of these commenters…
MitchC
November 30th, 2011
10:43 am
The Braves almoist have to sign Mccann. He would be before his 30th bday, even if they do no more than pick up the option for next year. Another thing:
Chipper makes.. more than 10 mil. He’ll probably be done after next year. While we know we will need to get another bat when Chipper retires,.,. the Braves can use at least part of that money to sign Mccann.
Hopefully Mccann wouldnt expect 20 mil a year like Mauer gets. That.. we cant afford. Even if he has another monster season.. if we can get him locked up for.. 5 years.. at.. 15 to 18 mil, if he gives us the “hometown discount” of a few mil, it should get done.
We will be in serious trouble if Mccann walks, given his age, and his offensive output. Fans, me included, were angry when Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz left. Those guys were all, late 30s early 40s. We wouldnt have let any of them leave at age 30. If the Braves let Mccann walk, the franchise will slip even further.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
10:44 am
First, five or so years ago, it was Saltalamacchia annointed as better than Mac and would take over, yet he’s got a huge .244, .307, .406 line, has never played more than 103 games in a MLB season and spent time in the minors last year.
Then, after a great AFL, back in 08, ity was Tyler Flowers as the next reason to dump Mac. Since then, Flowers (at the same level then where Betancourt is now), has a MLB line of .197, .317, .365 and is still more a minor league player than not.
Now it’s Betancourt, whohas hit .270, .303, .373 in the minors, never played a minute above HIg A ball and after having a great AFL, is now considered to be “The One”.
Are we maybe seeing a trend here about expectations based on an extremely small sample size vs. A Huge sample size of nothing but success from Mac?
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
10:45 am
would your opinion change on 6 years $96mil if year 1 replaced his 2013 option? the contract would take him through age 34.
I want 2018(his age 34 year old season) to be an option. Whether it’s vesting or club, I don’t want that year to be guaranteed. And I also wouldn’t want to go more than 14ish million a year. If he has a .840-.850ish year in 2012, I’d go no further than a five deal covering 2013-2017 for 70 million. 2018 could be a club option for 14 million with a 2.5 million buyout.
Pcola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:47 am
GIMPAH
Keep ignoring stats and talking out your ass. Makes you look real smart. I proved my point. Where’s yours?
Lew
November 30th, 2011
10:51 am
PCola – KInd of hard NOT to talk out your ass when the head is perpetually performing a colonoscopy.
Jimmy
November 30th, 2011
10:52 am
Thanks for the new bloggage DOB.
Well, here is a topic no one wanted brought up.
First base is out of the question.
Third…well, that is possible, I guess.
LF? Anyone remember Pete Incaviglia? A major defensive liability.
It reminds me of having an old dog that you love, whos health has started to decline. Eveyone knows you might have to put him down in a few years. No one want to discuss it.
I do like McCann, but I like the Braves more. Whatever decision is made, I hope it makes this team better. In the short and long term.
wreckbuzz
November 30th, 2011
10:53 am
DOB,
The Braves cannot and will not sign Brian McCann to a deal anything like Joe Mauer. First of all, Mauer is the face of the Twins franchise, hometown boy and they were heading into a brand new baseball stadium that they could not afford to have empty. Plus the Yankees and Red Sox would have overpaid to take Mauer away from them. Plus Mauer is more of an athlete than McCann so he could move positions or DH and they’d be fine. McCann does not project at other positions well since he’s the slowest man alive.
I don’t think the Braves are in the same boat. While McCann is a team leader, this team is not all about him. It is about pitching and the other young stars like Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward, with Dan Uggla. Plus we’re talking about a 28 year old catcher. You can’t give him more than 4 guaranteed years. Maybe some option years beyond that. And it can’t be for more than you’ve been paying Chipper Jones all these years because McCann won’t play but 140 games if he stays healthy, much less if he gets dinged up.
I say they sign him for 4 years at something like $58-$60 million with a club option for a 5th year at around $15 million.
Pcola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:54 am
Lew
Good point.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:54 am
Lew @ 10:44—
Spot on.
(Nice one at 10:51, too, heh heh…)
DAP
November 30th, 2011
10:55 am
veaserva As a fan and season ticket holder losing McCann would be unexceptionable .
i agree with the sentiment, but…unexceptionable? using that word makes it sound like losing mccann would be ok with you. it means its something you wouldnt criticize.
Rick
November 30th, 2011
10:56 am
“Yeah! Imagine not having to score the runs Mac gives up at catcher. Remember, the game is won or lost by one run and everything else is just padding your stats.”
So McCann directly causes opposing teams to score 80-100 runs each season?
Murph
November 30th, 2011
10:56 am
The Braves have much bigger fish to fry than BMac right now. Sign him to an extension and move on to the more important matters, like:
1. Who is going to play 3B in 2013?
2. Who is going to play CF in 2013?
3. Who is going to play SS in 2012?
4. Can Heyward be repaired?
To me those questions are way, way, way more important to the Braves’ future. BMac is a given, he has to get his extension eventually, but I look a year into the future and I see a lineup with huge, gaping holes in it.
This team has 100 problems but a BMac ain’t one of ‘em.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:59 am
I’m not interested in any of this McCann talk. Of course he’ll be resigned. By the time he needs to be resiged CJ will be close to retiring if he isn’t already.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:59 am
Rick So McCann directly causes opposing teams to score 80-100 runs each season?
Of course he is. He’s also responsible for the bad economy and world hunger.
Jimmy
November 30th, 2011
11:00 am
P’Cola -
“While Hanson was on the mound 30 of 33 stolen base attempts were successful (safe 91%).”
That is an awful stat. 91% safe? I know he has a slow delivery and a “hitch”, but…wow.
Those numbers…are they all runners or are they only those with Brian behind the dish?
travis
November 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Braves ranked 2nd behind Philly in runs allowed for 2011 at 605 in NL. Let em take second. Just keep em there. I agree that Mac shouldn’t play his entire career behind the plate. If he continues to out perform Freeman then in 2 years trade Freeman and give Mac a shot at first. Let’s not put the cart before the horse. No one guns out runners better at third than Mac, so the arm and foot work seem to be there. Until Brian came along, the Braves made do with average backstops like Blanco and Estrada. A big hitting catcher in the National league is a rarity for a reason. No DH and no way to rest them from the rigors of the crouch.
B MONEY
November 30th, 2011
11:06 am
DOB- Freddie F started off as a 3rd baseman if I remember correctly. Has anyone ever mentioned putting him back there and moving B Mac to 1st?
billcanoe
November 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Pay McCann and keep him! He is the best player and most clutch hitter the Braves have.
Murph
November 30th, 2011
11:06 am
Of course he is. He’s also responsible for the bad economy and world hunger.
I don’t know about the economy part, but the world hunger part I’d believe. There’s a shortage of donuts and beef jerky in Africa that’s been directly linked to McCann’s over-consumption.
Gimpah & McError
November 30th, 2011
11:07 am
Keep ignoring stats and talking out your ass. Makes you look real smart. I proved my point. Where’s yours?
The only point you’ll ‘prove’ is if the Braves win a world series championship with Chipper & Mac on the team. Otherwise its just another loyalist crowing about underachieving Atlanta baseball players. And how they’re perfectly content with the status quo.
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
11:08 am
You fix those issues by acquiring Myers for LF, Jackson for CF and Pastor at SS.
don
November 30th, 2011
11:08 am
Why doesn’t Wren just trade Teixeira for Andrus, Feliz, and Harrison? That would solve a load of problems for the Braves.
Pcola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:09 am
Jimmy.
No Hanson and Lowe stats are specifically why they are on the mound.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 30th, 2011
11:10 am
“Freddie F started off as a 3rd baseman if I remember correctly”
Played 5 games in rookie ball, made 3 errors. But yes, he’s a pretty slick fielder and I also wonder about an eventual switch to third base. Don’t have to worry about this for a few years, but I’ll be interested to see if Freeman takes any practice reps at the hot corner
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
11:10 am
Baseball America
Colorado Rockies Top 10 prospects for 2012
1. Drew Pomeranz, rhp
2. Nolan Arenado, 3b
3. Chad Bettis, rhp
4. Wilin Rosario, c
5. Tim Wheeler, of
6. Trevor Story, ss/3b
7. Tyler Anderson, lhp
8. Kent Matthes, of
9. Kyle Parker, of
10. Josh Rutledge, ss
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
11:10 am
Where is Herschel Talker at…?
Im Sure he is Licking his chops waiting to Rip B-Macc on here?
BB FAN
November 30th, 2011
11:10 am
As much as I like McCann (and he’s my son’s favorite player too), the Braves can’t go more than 5 years and $10-11 million a year . The fact that they rely on McCann so much on offense is why they struggle to score runs so often. He is always banged up, nursing some nagging injury…he’s a catcher and that’s what happens to them. I just hope McCann understands and accepts it. I mean if he got a 5 year, $50 million deal, he will have made about $80 million by age 33 or 34. I’d say that’s pretty good.
As far as this year goes, I’ve said this a lot and still believe it, the Braves should go after Andruw Jones. He’s right handed, kills left handed pitching, can play the corner outfield spots, can play center if needed and has been signing deals for less than $2,5 million a year for the last 3 years. They should trade Prado to Colorado or Detroit and where ever to get another OF to platoon with Jones and a centerfield prospect. This will free up a little money. Then sign Jerry Hairston to back up SS, 2B and 3B. He only made $2 million last year and didn’t have a spectacular season so he shouldn’t cost more than 2 years, $5-$6 million (of course, who knows). He can back up the infield next year as well. Maybe give Miguel Tejada, Orlando Cabrera, Omar Vizquel or Edgar Renteria a minor league deal with an invite to ST to see if they can hold up for a half season. I would be surprised if any of them got a major league deal. If so, maybe for between the league minimum and $1 million. If it doesn’t work out, let Pastornicky play SS. If he fails, make a trade in June.
The Braves need right handed power in the outfield. This is why it really boggles my mind why they have not gone after Andruw Jones. He’s exactly what they have been looking for… for 3 years.
Cecil34
November 30th, 2011
11:11 am
First off, McCann is a great guy and I have the utmost of respect for him and his accomplishments so far….
Having said that, the one glaring factor in MLB in regard to contracts and payrolls is that there are no guarantees.
I am formulating the doctrine that no player is worth the long contracts with ultra-high salaries because:
a. There is usually someone coming along behind them at some point that will be as good or better…that is what the minor-league system does…
b. There are no guarantees that high payrolls guarantee a WS victory (Yankees)…..
c. The player’s health and ability decline with age (moreso with catchers)….
My point is even Pujols, as great as he has been, is not going to guarantee success for the team, and you know someone is going to pay him a gazillion dollars when it is all said and done.
Now, could they have found a first baseman that cost less that delivered 3/4 of what Pujols does and have the same success? I say they can, because baseball is a team sport and the other players matter infinately in the equation.
Therefore, I think there needs to be a re-evaluation of paying humongus salaries with long multi-year contracts. Even moreso for players in their early 30’s.
This would mean that based upon Bethancourt’s progress the next couple of years, they should be wary of signing McCann long-term.
travis
November 30th, 2011
11:14 am
No lefties in the rotation and the slow delivery to the plate make it tough on catchers. If you think about it, why didn’t the Braves match up Ross with Hanson to cut down on the stolen bases if he has a better arm? Who is a t fault there?
Pcola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:15 am
Gimpah
Same can be said about every other team in baseball. I guess if you don’t win a WS you should get rid of top talent. Especially a team who went to playoffs in 2010 and a team on pace to win over 90 games last year.
BB FAN
November 30th, 2011
11:15 am
The Braves would have to trade Matt Diaz as well, maybe include him in a Prado deal if possible.
Chris
November 30th, 2011
11:15 am
Really Dob? Because I believe Buster Posey was a 23 year old catcher last year when the Ginats won it all…
DAP
November 30th, 2011
11:16 am
gimpah & mcerror Otherwise its just another loyalist crowing about underachieving Atlanta baseball players.
your obviously not very smart, so there is probably no point in saying anything to you. but, neither mccann or chipper are underachievers. mccann is a 6 time all star at age 27, with 5 silver sluggers. chipper is batting champ, an MVP and a 1st ballot hall of famer. how could anybody be stupid enough to say they are under achievers?
Lew
November 30th, 2011
11:19 am
Bethancourt’s progress? Like Saltalamaccia’s and Flower’s progress.
For crying out loud. The kid has almost 1100 MInor league AB’s and hit half as many HR in the AFL as he has his entire Minor League carfeer. Talk about small sample sizes and much wishful thinking for a kid (albeit quite young) who has a .307 MInor League OBP and a .680 OPS.
travis
November 30th, 2011
11:22 am
Yeah, Tim Hudson is number 3 in active pitchers with best winning percentage behind Halladay and Lester for active pitchers. What an under achiever.
TennesseePaul
November 30th, 2011
11:25 am
I want 2018(his age 34 year old season) to be an option. Whether it’s vesting or club, I don’t want that year to be guaranteed. And I also wouldn’t want to go more than 14ish million a year. If he has a .840-.850ish year in 2012, I’d go no further than a five deal covering 2013-2017 for 70 million. 2018 could be a club option for 14 million with a 2.5 million buyout.
For all of this I’d rather wait and see how Heyward rebounds and Freeman handles the sophomore season. The projection of those two will impact the terms of other agreements. If Heyward starts returning to form and looking like the monster we all thought he’d be, extending McCann into his mid-30’s as a catcher at a high price becomes less imperative. If Freeman continues to grow, McCann has no “fall back” position on the field, making extending him more complex.
cdog
November 30th, 2011
11:27 am
mccan will get fat and lazy once he signs a big contract.ask yourself, is he worth it for the long term? he’s injured alot similiar to chipper jones also.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
11:29 am
He already signed a big contract and all he did was make the All Star terasm every year and won the Silver Slugger all but one – even in a season where he was injured for a couple of months.
Bill
November 30th, 2011
11:31 am
Thanks DOB..Braves have alot of “if”..Lets see how Wren handles them @ Winter Meetings. Go Braves!
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
11:36 am
TennessePaul, very good points at 11:25am. That will go into it as well. Also important to remember that the Braves have very little in terms of contractual obligations through 2015. Only Uggla’s contract is guaranteed salary 2013-2015. But you’re right, Heyward and Freeman’s 2012 seasons will hopefully make their decision to give Mac big dollars more complex. I’m okay with that.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:37 am
Doesn’t matter what any of us think about a Mac extension, the Braves will not be checking DOB’s blogs for fan opinions. It all boils down to that mean green in the end. Nice guys that are good players have been let go before. It could happen again, but it won’t with Brian. Some money is coming off the books next offseason. Jones should be retiring then too. Chubs will be here a long time.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:39 am
Lew, you’ve made your point. Very valid points at that. But we all know where you stand, sir. Lets move on to another topic, please.
Bravesnyer
November 30th, 2011
11:42 am
If he doesn’t accept a deal in the neighborhood of 5years 70 million-80 most, let him walk. We have betancourt in the near future. We can get 3 more seasons out of him and by that time Betancourt should be more than ready to come up. I’d trade McCan in the mid-season of 2013 and get some valuable prospects in return.
Guys don’t forget we are a small market team with a budget of 88-90 million, we are not the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers, White Sox where we can throw around millions and have a payroll of 120-140 million.
Murph
November 30th, 2011
11:44 am
Lets move on to another topic, please.
Let’s talk about Bourn’s extension, or lack there of… who is going to play CF after next season? Nobody in the system, Braves don’t spend big on FA, so…. what will the team do about that?
I personally don’t think Bourn is going to be worth the money that he’s likely to be seeking.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
11:47 am
TnBrian -= Getting full of yourslef again are you? I’ll post what I damned well please when I weant to. Got that?
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:48 am
While most fans aim high, I see where some are aiming Cody Ross territory. Hey if that’s all they can afford, or make it obvious to everybody that a platoon in left is all they’re doing than I’m in for Ross. Thing is nobody knows what Wren is aiming for yet. Until then I am all about a full time OF who could hit somewhere in the middle of the lineup. Would love to keep Martin in a super utility role, but realize getting a good OF probably means he will be in a trade. But nobody knows this yet.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
11:52 am
However, while I wil post what I damned well please when I want to post it, I will likely make numerous typos and stubbornly refuse to edit it for typos.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:52 am
Lew, I just see you getting a little worked up over some knuckleheads and was just holding you back. I will let you raise your blood pressure then. Just trying to help.
Jimmy
November 30th, 2011
11:54 am
10Paul – Well stated!
Lew
November 30th, 2011
11:54 am
TnBRian – If knuckleheads and idiots were actually a factor in my blood pressure’s elevation (they aren’t – it’s about 120/59), then I’d be concerned and would appreciate help. However………
Lew
November 30th, 2011
11:55 am
And while I’ve been responding to knuckleheads and idiots, I’ve also treadmilled a mile. BP’s doing just fine, thanks.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
11:58 am
bavesnyer Guys don’t forget we are a small market team with a budget of 88-90 million,
no, actually we are a big market team with a middle of the pack payroll.
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
11:58 am
Lew, but Bethancourt is the only one in that group that can really play defense.
What would you rather have, a gold glove catcher with 750 OPS, or a so-so defensive catcher making 18 million with an 850 OPS?
Not that I would let McCann leave, just saying Bethancourt has nice value
nolie
November 30th, 2011
11:59 am
between last night and this morning I’d be willing to bet that most of the unknown idiots saying the same ignorant drivel are the same person…either that or there was a major escape from some nut house
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:01 pm
No, actually, we’re a mid market team with a mid market payroll. 15th of 30 teams in attendance and 15th out of 30 teams in payroll. Can’t get more mid market than exact middle of the pack all the way around.
Understandable how this confuses many. It’s called Fiscal Responsibility – something it’s been decades since even we older posters have seen.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:03 pm
Bethancourt has a lot to prove with the bat, imo.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:07 pm
Tomas – First of all, it will be another four or so years before Betabcourt is even ready for the boigs, much less taking over for McCann. The Kid is 20 and has played no higher than A+ Ball. His minor league numbers are totally uninspiring (though, as I’ve said, he IS quite young) and based on a few games in the AFL, where he hit half as many HR as he has in 1060 minor league ABs, he’s all of a sudden Mac’s (one of the most successful hitting catchers we’ve seen in years) replacement?
Talk about extending expectations based on an extremely small sample size…..
Now about the $18 mil figure. Where in the world did you pull that numer from? What makes you think he’ll make that much even if he goes to another team? What I’m seeing is a five year, maybe $60 – 70 mil deal. That’s about what he’ll get considereing that they will factor his declining years into the equation. If they offer that, I’m betting that he’ll take it
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:10 pm
Tomas – And I’m betting Betancourt is trade bait and never even plays for Atlanta – Just like Salty and Flowers, whowere traded when their value was at it’s highest. That may well be where Betancourt is right now. Max value.
Then again, maybe he will get much better. Just like almost all aspects of baseball – crap shoot city.
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
12:10 pm
Lew, Joe Mauer got 23 mill per year. If McCann really wanted he could match it in my opinion, but it won’t be from the Braves.
I do believe McCann would give a big hometown discount and take a 6 yr 90 million deal. But what would Boston, or Chicago give him if he was available?
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
tomas What would you rather have, a gold glove catcher with 750 OPS, or a so-so defensive catcher making 18 million with an 850 OPS?
not sure about the $18mil thing, but if my choice is benthancourt winning gold gloves and OPSing .750, or mccann winning silver sluggers and OPSing .850, ill take mccann every time.
Chris
November 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
this is the first year that bethancourt has showed some good signs with the bat. he’s no tyler flowers or saltalamacchia in the minors, but because of his age and someone who hasnt physically filled out, scouts do not know how much potential he has with the bat. and his defense is off the charts
BravePack
November 30th, 2011
12:12 pm
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:59 am
I’m not interested in any of this McCann talk. Of course he’ll be resigned. By the time he needs to be resiged CJ will be close to retiring if he isn’t already.
THIS. It is rediculous that those of you who are arguing against signing Mac would even have that thought. Best hitting cather in baseball let alone the Braves team and you want to let him go? It’s so stupid to even argue about this. BMac will be an Atlanta Brave for a while and he should be…and in the famous words of Forrest Gump(Ward)…that’s all I got to say about that.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
12:13 pm
Just droped in for a minute, but there seems to be a lot of ignorance this morning…and a lot of hatred too. Why do some of you even come on here if all you want to do is criticize the team, ownership, management, players, and fans. …Could it be that you just crave attention? YHour mother didn’t breast feed you long enough? Your father ignored you too much?
And why in the hell do all the critics assume a new owner would increase the payroll? They could just as easily set it at…say…$70 mil.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:14 pm
It’s not a sure thing that Christian Bethancourt will be OPS’n .750 at the big league level. He’s going to have to hit for plenty of power, because the kid never walks.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
12:15 pm
What I’m seeing is a five year, maybe $60 – 70 mil deal. …Lew
If you are talking about Mac, how is that gonna happen? He will make 11.5 this year and prolly at least 13 next season. 5 years and 90 mil is not out of the question
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:15 pm
Tomas – Yeah, Mauer got that much and everyone with a quarter ounce of common sense realizes it was one of the dumbest contracts offered in recent years and it is highly doubtful that ANYONE would make a dumb move like that again.
In addition, the situation with Mauer/The Twins is cosiderably different than any scenario MCann might be faced with. New stadium, going for the guto and now paying the price for their stupidity. It won’t happen that way with Mac. If ever there was a player who would take a home town discount, Mac is t.
bravesfaninNashville
November 30th, 2011
12:16 pm
Love Brian McCann and what he’s meant to the Braves. With that being said baseball is a business and IMO the best baseball business decision is to field a team with balance within your payroll budget. Brian has a huge upside with his bat but even that is in question when his eyes take a turn for the worse which has happened to him twice already. He battles weight and general conditioning which will catch up to him as he is lifting a lot of extra weight out of the crouch hundreds of times a game. He’s already slower than slow and he’s primed to develop a knee injury. He’s not a very good defensive catcher and I think gives up a lot more passed balls and even allows more wild pitches. Anything in the dirt is a wild pitch if it gets by the catcher.. Think about all the errors Fredi Freeman saved our infield by scooping up hundreds of throws in the dirt at 1B. A better catcher would also prevent wild pitches by blocking a higher percentage than Brian. If I’m the Braves front office I don’t even think about giving McCann a contract even close to Joe Mauer’s. I think his best years are either behind him or will be by the time his contract runs out in 2013 (club option year). I say we sit still and don’t be afraid to lose him to free agency after that. If he proves to be healthy and still highly productive you make a decision then but locking him up now when there is no reason to do that other than fear of the future could come back to haunt us if his future includes declining play do to normal wear and tear on catchers above 30, injuries and or eyesight problems. His highest value is probably going to be to an American League team where he can DH and spell the starting catcher a day or two a week. I think the Braves also have to think about keeping some of this great pitching around as well as Fredi Freeman and possibly Heyward. McCann is the most expendable as great has he hits for his position. The catchers positions value IMO is 2/3 defense and calling a game and those are not his strong points. Unless we can sign him to a shorter (4yrs or less) extension I say the Braves should sit tight.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:16 pm
nolie – We’ll see, but I’m betting Mac gets nowhere near $16 mil per year.
skep
November 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
Here we are talking about McCann with two years left on his contract when the team has no power from the outfield unless Heyward changes his swing and starts hitting some homers instead of ground outs to second. Chipper is done after next year if not sooner. Hope Pastornicky is rookie of the year next year. I can’t take another slow start by Uggla.
Mixxo
November 30th, 2011
12:17 pm
Let. Him. GO!
….and take Heyward with him.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:18 pm
lew No, actually, we’re a mid market team with a mid market payroll.
atlanta is #9 or #8 depending on what list or year you are looking at. its a major market, lew. but, youre right about the mid market payroll.
CB
November 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
McCann might do a deal where he gives the Braves a discount but I can’t see less than 15 million a year on the low side. We are dreaming if we think less.
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
DAP, me too, but money, health, age, etc, are things o consider. Because if you pay McCann say 16 million per year (which a severe discount IMO) and you have to deal with paying arbitration to Freeman, Heyward, Kimbrel, Venters, Hanson, etc then I must say how in the world are they gonna do that with a 90 million payroll if these guys continue to play like they should.
The answer is they can’t, they need a 110 million payroll to keep all of this guys including McCann
Rick
November 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
“What would you rather have, a gold glove catcher with 750 OPS, or a so-so defensive catcher making 18 million with an 850 OPS?”
I think the overall offensive production was more of a liability to the team this past season than defense. I would exercise McCann’s option in 2013, and wait at least until then to determine what to do with him. If Bethancourt can continue his rise in offensive production in the minors over the next two seasons, than I have high hopes for him. Likewise, if McCann’s numbers start to fall than it would be all the more reason to let him go and have Bethancourt as the catcher of the future. I can’t see McCann playing any other positions for the Braves that soon unless they trade Freeman, which in the long run would be arguably worse for the offensive production as McCann’s stats will inevitably eventually decline. In summary, I think what they do with McCann will both depend on his production and Bethancourt’s over the next two seasons.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:20 pm
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
1 remarkable thing about winter is nonexistent pujols market. only bid is lowball bid from #marlins, who really seek reyes
I never thought Pujols was going to get 28-30 million a year like some did. The market is not there for him and the Cardinals have most of the leverage. His agents can point to ARod’s contract all they want, but that isn’t the way it works. Similar to how McCann’s people can point to Mauer all they want. Not. Gonna. Happen. Not even half the commitment in terms of dollars.
bball fan
November 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
The comment about moving Mac to left field sounds better than moving him to 1st base to me. My god, we have one of the best young 1st basemen in the league. He’s not that great a defensive catcher and even Yogi played left field.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
DAP – I believe that just a week or two ago, Atlanta was listed as the Number 12 TV market. Population wise, they consider that South Carolina, Tennesseee, Alabama and Mississippi are in Metro Atlanta – which, of course, they aren’t – no way they are 8 or 9.
Jeff R
November 30th, 2011
12:21 pm
McFann O O o… your 9:09 am. I believe McCann was sidelined in 2010 with an injury, though I can’t recall what it was. None the less, I stand by my concern that catchers don’t age well and I’d be less inclined to give McCann another long term deal – one that takes him substantially into his 30s.
Lew’s right, the Braves can eventually move McCann elsewhere in the field. I suppose that’s what would happen longer term with McCann, but the Braves would be paying McCann premium dollars to catch… not sure that translates into a smart investment for an older, possibly defensive-challenged outfielder.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:22 pm
5 years and 90 mil is not out of the question
For the Braves it is. It better be.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:24 pm
15 million a year on the low side. We are dreaming if we think less.
You can’t hide him. He’s your catcher for the entire deal, imo. He isn’t atheltic enough to play LF and it remains to be seen on first base. No DH in this league. Ain’t no way Mauer gets near that money if the American League doesn’t have it’s DH rule.
abwright
November 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
nolie, November 30th, 2011, 2:30 am … “anybody watched GRIMM yet?”
I watched a few episodes last week.
Here’s my scale. When I watched one episode of Firefly, I immediately figured out when it would be on again the following week. When I watched “A Whole New Ballgame” (you’ve almost never heard of that stinker), I didn’t make it through a single episode before making sure I would never turn a TV on when it might be playing).
Grimm falls close to the Firefly end of the scale than the “Ballgame” end, but pretty much in the middle.
There’s a were-beast character that Grimm relies on for his contacts with the supernatural community that is pretty interesting, but all the other story elements have been done (recently) over-and-over-and-over.
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
The biggest contract the Braves have ever given was to Chipper in 2000, 6 years 90 million.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
12:26 pm
scouts do not know how much potential he has with the bat. and his defense is off the charts
Go back a few years and read the scouting reports on Saltalamacchia. Same deal.
You don’t make your bones in the low minors and the AFL. Bethancourt shouldn’t even get a sniff from the blog until he proves he can hit AA pitching, at least.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:27 pm
DAP – Might want to check outthe populations from the 2010 Census.
They have Atlanta as the 41st largest population with the following cities listed ahead of Atlanta. NY (two teams), LA (two teams), Chicago (two teams), Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Diego, Dallas, SF, Detroit, Baltimore, Boston, Seattle, DC, Denver and Kansas City.
hmmmmmm
November 30th, 2011
12:28 pm
yet with all he has done I can’t help but feel Javier Lopez was a better catcher defensively and offensively….maybe its just nostalgia..idk
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
12:30 pm
Efrim, the market for Pujols is limited because the Yankees and Red Sox have Mark Texeira and Adrian Gonzalez. He is 32 years old, and nobody want’s to give him A-rod money.
Maybe the Cubs offer him a real deal, we’ll see.
Ease
November 30th, 2011
12:31 pm
U.S. TV Markets (2010-11 Season Estimates)
2010-11 Rank 2009-10 Rank Market
1 1 New York
2 2 Los Angeles
3 3 Chicago
4 4 Philadelphia
5 5 Dallas-Ft. Worth
6 6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose
7 7 Boston (Manchester)
8 8 Atlanta
9 9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn)
10 10 Houston
11 11 Detroit
12 12 Phoenix (Prescott)
13 13 Seattle-Tacoma
14 14 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota)
15 15 Minneapolis-St. Paul
16 17 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale
17 16 Denver
18 18 Cleveland-Akron (Canton)
19 19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn
20 20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:32 pm
Tomas, of course. People were jumping to conclusions on Pujols, but he’ll sign for a little more than 200. I think the Cards will raise it ever so slightly. 207 million over 9 years, 23 million a year.
CB
November 30th, 2011
12:34 pm
Right now I would not consider any contract with Brian that goes past the 2016 season. No catcher in his prime should get more than 5 years. We could wait to the middle of next season to see how he is playing before making any long term decisions.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:36 pm
I think it would help Brian a lot if he played in the AL, but him being an NL catcher hurts him at the bargaining table. Next winter, I wouldn’t offer anything more than five years for 70 million with a club or vesting option for 2018. 18 million a year is borderline insanity for a National League catcher into their mid-thirties for a team that has a payroll of 90-95 million. And I haven’t seen any reason to think it will be substantially larger within the next three to five years.
Ease
November 30th, 2011
12:36 pm
As Of August 30, 2011, Atlanta ranks #9 with 2,292,640 TV households.
Tomas
November 30th, 2011
12:37 pm
But Efrim, unlike Pujols who plays 1B and will be 32 years old, I think you can justify giving the best hitting catcher in baseball who will be 29 in his FA 20 mill per year. Most would argue he would be in his prime years.
RC
November 30th, 2011
12:38 pm
The new collective bargaining agreement calls for a competitive balance draft pick lottery beginning in 2013, and MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo has details. 13 teams will be eligible for the first lottery based on their market size and revenue: the Diamondbacks, Orioles, Indians, Royals, Athletics, Pirates, Padres, Rays, Reds, Rockies, Marlins, Brewers, and Cardinals. The lottery gives each of these teams the chance to win one of six extra picks in the 2013 draft, which will come after the compensation picks for free agents. The odds of winning a pick will be based on each team’s winning percentage in the previous season.
Glad we can have a draft pick lottery to help out those poor teams that can’t afford to compete like the Cardinals, Brewers, and Diamondbacks.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:39 pm
I was always okay with giving a player 20% of the teams payroll if they were such an impactful ballplayer. As much as I love the guy as a Brave, I can’t justify giving an NL catcher 20% of the team’s payroll in his early-mid thirties.
RC
November 30th, 2011
12:40 pm
Ease,
Did Atlanta slide back to #9 because DC jumped them? That was the only city below them that I really expected to be above them.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:40 pm
have i been blocked?
Lew
November 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
Ease – TV market and city population are two entirely different creatures. Look at the success of the Rays and where they rank in TV market and then compare that to attendance.
If TV market is the overirding decider on how much revenue a team should have, then it’s based on TV contracts and NOT on attendance.
RC
November 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
have i been blocked? – DAP
Nope.
Ease
November 30th, 2011
12:42 pm
Probably RC, but it only a tally of half the year, but 8 or 9 has been consistant with the last several years.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:43 pm
unlike Pujols who plays 1B and will be 32 years old, I think you can justify giving the best hitting catcher in baseball who will be 29 in his FA 20 mill per year.
Catchers age much faster than other position players and you are absolutely handcuffing this team by paying an NL catcher 18-20 million a year into his mid-thirties. He can’t DH. That’s huge here, imo.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:43 pm
RC, well that one went through, but everything im posting to lew about media markets is getting blocked.
N8
November 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
“Bethancourt shouldn’t even get a sniff from the blog until he proves he can hit AA pitching, at least.”
You mean like the 48 games Mac had at AA (age 21) before his callup, going: 265/.359/.476/.834 ??
There is ZERO reason to extend Mac now. None.
If the “market” isn’t going to bring half of the Mauer dollars for him, then who’s the competition if all things are equal when he hits free agency? If he really wants to stay in Atlanta, he’ll give the Braves the same deal then, as he’d be willing to give now (early).
Why not let it play out? See how he performs next year, see how healthy he stays along with keeping a close eye on Bethancourt. If Mac can’t stay healthy and Bethancourt progresses just like Mac did…. why on earth do you shell out 14-16 million dollars for him at that point?
Like I said. It might very well be worth every penny to lock Mac up long-term and keep him a Brave forever. At which point you could move Bethancourt to the outfield or trade him.
But why all the hurry and fuss to do it early?
Brave Hokie
November 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
Heartless losers…
No matter what they do, it will end in failure.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
I don’t believe in the Betancourt hype yet until he wows the hell out of me at the Big league level…
He could turn out to be another Jarrod Saltalamacchia…
Just Saying…
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:44 pm
lew TV market and city population are two entirely different creatures.
thats true, and we are talking about media market, not population.
RC
November 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
If TV market is the overirding decider on how much revenue a team should have, then it’s based on TV contracts and NOT on attendance.
TV market is not the overriding factor, but it is a major factor. It’s an even bigger factor for a team that owns it’s own network, like the Yankees with the YES Network. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship in that the network only exists because of the Yankees, and the Yankees can afford to spend a ton on players because the network make so much money. One of the shrewdest moves Stienbrenner ever made.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
Practically impossible to see all the ramifications that could impinge on the sanity of extending or not extending McCann, at whatever price. If the team is cranking Uggla, Heyward, and Freeman in the middle, with another thumper at LF or 3B, then a great hitting catcher takes you from good to great, offensively. That kind of scenario makes him almost as valuable as if he were hitting in the middle.
On the other hand, if the team is still treading water offensively, then there’s really little choice but to sign him. Either way, his stick makes him an extremely valuable commodity. Even at premium prices in his 30s.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
DAP
You Have not been Bozo’d…
Trust me, I know…I got Bozo’d for 10 weeks at the during the last month of the season…
CB
November 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
Efrim, makes more sense to give him 1 year less and go with a slightly higher contract. 4yrs-60million makes more sense to me.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
atlanta is a major market, period.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
12:48 pm
CB
Co-Sign on that 12:45 post
Im not a Fan at all of giving out deals of more than 3 years…The Derek Blowe Deal was bad enough
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:48 pm
and when i say the braves are a major market team, i mena they are a team in a major market, which is a fact. i dont mean they are a top 10 grossing team, or top 10 in attendance, or whatever. that not what “major market team” means.
ROSS
November 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
GOTS TO SIGN MCCANN…EVEN THOUGH, WITH HIS ERRORS,PASSED BALLS, WILL NEVER BE A GOLD GLOVE, ONLY BRAVE WITH A CHANCE AT A GG IS FREEMAN…
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
You mean like the 48 games Mac had at AA (age 21) before his callup, going: 265/.359/.476/.834 ??
Do you even remember why he was called up, nathan? Or does it just not matter, for the point of your remark?
If Bethancourt can throw up an .800+ OPS in any 50-game stretch at AA, then you can make some comparison, however ill-advised. Until then, not so much.
Tomahawkin
November 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
Didn’t the Braves have a Slight Decline on attendance in 2011?
I Still cant Believe the Gutless promoters had the Nerve to announce that they were selling their 2012 tickets the day after our epic CHOKE-JOB…
Ease
November 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
I would venture to say that TV markets are just as, if not more important that actual population numbers. Its a fan base that is the attraction that you can reach countrywide vs. solely local attendance.
CB
November 30th, 2011
12:51 pm
I am ashamed to see the name Hokie affiliated with that whiner post at 12:44. Change your name,Bozo.
Rick
November 30th, 2011
12:52 pm
“Why not let it play out? See how he performs next year, see how healthy he stays along with keeping a close eye on Bethancourt. If Mac can’t stay healthy and Bethancourt progresses just like Mac did…. why on earth do you shell out 14-16 million dollars for him at that point?
Like I said. It might very well be worth every penny to lock Mac up long-term and keep him a Brave forever. At which point you could move Bethancourt to the outfield or trade him.
But why all the hurry and fuss to do it early?”
This is basically how I feel. Let’s see how they both progress in the next season, with the expectation to exercise McCann’s option in 2013, and then continue to see how they both do in that season.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:52 pm
That kind of scenario makes him almost as valuable as if he were hitting in the middle.
He’s a catcher hitting .850. If he does that in 2012, then he has a lot of value. However…
Even at premium prices in his 30s.
Ain’t no way I’m paying him 18-20 million a year for six years(2013-2018), scoots. Especially if Heyward, Freeman have big 2012’s and look like they can anchor this lineup for a while.
Juan
November 30th, 2011
12:53 pm
Lew..here the TV market Rating by City…Atlanta is # 8
Rank Tv Metropolitan Market Regions / Areas
1 New York
2 Los Angeles
3 Chicago
4 Philadelphia
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth
6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose
7 Boston
8 Atlanta
9 Washington, DC
10 Houston
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:54 pm
Cubs and David DeJesus – 2 years, 10 million. First signing for Theo/Hoyer regime.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
LF Soriano, CF Byrd, RF DeJesus, 3B, SS Castro, 2B, 1B, C Soto.
Cubs still have plenty of holes. I can’t take them seriously with Darwin Barney at 2B…..
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
12:57 pm
So, 13 teams are eligible for the lottery picks and the Braves just missed the cut.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
12:57 pm
by the way, the lowest ranked media market with an MLB team is cincinatti, projected to rank 35 in 2012.
ahead of them on the list are non-mlb cities like salt lake city UT (33), Columbus OH (32), Hartford CT (30), Nashville TN (29), Indianapolis (26), Charlotte NC (25), Raliegh-Durham (24), Portland OR (22), Sacramento CA (20), and Orlando – Daytona Beach – Melbourne FL (19)
RC
November 30th, 2011
1:00 pm
Efrim,
For a team that’s not likely to compete in 2012 anyway, Barney is a fine option for 2b. He’s a 2nd year player with decent contact skills who can provide good defense and 2b or SS. Perfectly acceptable short-term solution at 2b.
He reminds me a bit of a young Omar Infante, just making a lot less money.
N8
November 30th, 2011
1:03 pm
Yeah scoots I do. My home state boy “freight train” Darin Erstad leveled Estrada at home plate. So the NEED to call up Mac was obvious. He exceeded expectations, never looked back and NEVER played an inning of AAA ball.
What’s your point? Until Mac gets seriously injured, the “need” to call upon Bethancourt early won’t be there.
But my point remains lock solid. Until Bethancourt shows he has no business being a big leaguer, the NEED to lock up Mac before he hits free agency is also uneccesary.
Big Nick
November 30th, 2011
1:04 pm
Prado, Hoover and Spruill For Smith, Blackmon and Rex Brothers
Then
Jurrjens for Scutaro, Bard and B prospect
Bullpen will be super tough which will be needed since the rotation will be so young.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
1:05 pm
Well, If that is the case, then it’s even more mystifying why teams like The Rays, The Nats and the Stros are so high on the list of TV Markets and even lower on the payroll scale than the Braves.
N8
November 30th, 2011
1:07 pm
So scoots. Since you brought it up. You answer my question. What does Estrada getting leveled and Mac getting called up early, have to do with signing Mac to an extention before it’s needed to be done?
Somebody simply made the comment that they aren’t “sold” on Bethancourt until he hits AA pitching. I simply responded (with a tinge of sarcasm) that Mac didn’t do much in a very small sample size at AA.
VERY relevant as far as I’m concerned. Because the poster who stated that, likely wasn’t “sold” on Mac when he was coming up to replace Estrada.
Not sure what’s so damn hard to see in that remark.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
1:08 pm
And if you look at that list and accpet Atlanta as the 8 team, you still have ten teams ahead of the Braves, as three of the top cities have two teams.
So, in essence, the Braves are the 11th highest in TV share and 15th in payroll – hardly that big a difference.
Daybed Wagmoe
November 30th, 2011
1:10 pm
With Albert Pujols being a free agent this offseason, I wonder if there are any teams out there in need of a 3B that would consider asking him to move back to his old position and sign him. One team that I would think have the resources and movable pieces would be Philadelphia.
Think about it — Pujols in Philly’s bandbox of a stadium. The Phillies, a team that, last year, had a solid lineup that would, at times, go missing. Right now, Placido Polanco is their 3B, and he’s due about $6.4 million next year.
The Phillies may not have room for Pujols in their payroll, but they could probably move players to make room. Which players? Well, Utley for one — who is due $15 million in each of the next two years, and Polanco could switch back to 2B. Or they could move Polanco. Or Cole Hamels. But if you were a Phillies fan (I’m not – I hate the Phillies), wouldn’t you want Pujols in your lineup, even if his defense there would be atrocious?
I’m sure that the realistic chances of that happening are very, very slim, especially since they signed Papelbon, and they already have a lot of big contracts on the books. But after surprising everyone by signing Cliff Lee last offseason, perhaps it wouldn’t be the craziest thing to happen.
RC
November 30th, 2011
1:13 pm
Big Nick,
I think the overall value of your two trades is pretty much right on, but it appears to me that the Rockies deal is too much of an overpay for the Braves, while the Red Sox deal is not enough of a return for the Red Sox.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
1:15 pm
lew And if you look at that list and accpet Atlanta as the 8 team, you still have ten teams ahead of the Braves, as three of the top cities have two teams.
So, in essence, the Braves are the 11th highest in TV share and 15th in payroll – hardly that big a difference.
good point, actually 4 cities ahead of atlanta have 2 teams, that makes us 13th in tv share…but still a major market team. :- )
sidslidkid
November 30th, 2011
1:17 pm
Lew, the Braves are the 12th highest in TV share.
1 New York (1. Yanks and 2. Mets)
2 Los Angeles (3. Angels and 4. Dodgers)
3 Chicago (5. Cubs and 6. White Sox)
4 Philadelphia (7. Phils)
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth (8. Rangers)
6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (9. Giants and 10. A’s)
7 Boston (11. Red Sox)
8 Atlanta (12. Braves)
brian
November 30th, 2011
1:19 pm
I miss the talk about where Jurrjens and Prado are going to be traded. I don’t like beating up on Big Mac.
Whether it is Brian or any other player, the Braves will have a plan to fit players under their payroll. If someone/anyone would take up too much of the payroll, the Braves will let him walk. At the least, the Braves will have at least an unofficial ceiling to their payroll if not a strict cap on their salary, so the management must always field the best team for the money. Comparisons to chipper are worthy as Chipper took a home town discount to stay a Brave. McCann could price himself off the Braves or the Braves could decide they could use that amount of money elsewhere to better improve the team.
I like Brian and hope he stays a Brave throughout his career but the economics of baseball combined with any wear and tear effects on production will impact whether McCann stays a Brave or not.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
1:19 pm
DAP – Thirteenth of thirty teams is top tier? I don’t think so. Atlanta is exactly what I said – a mid market team.
brian
November 30th, 2011
1:21 pm
per ESPN rumor mill:
The name of Martin Prado has been bandied about as trade bait for months, and the Atlanta Braves should receive plenty of inquiries at the winter meetings for the 28-year-old who was essentially miscast as a left fielder last season.
Prado remains a priority for the Colorado Rockies, where he could play second or third base. Troy Renck of the Denver Post says the issue is whether the Braves would deal Prado without receiving a center fielder in return. The Rockies reportedly have made Dexter Fowler off limits, offering Seth Smith instead. Renck says the Rockies also are reluctant to include Georgia Tech product Charlie Blackmon as part of a deal with Smith.
The Detroit Tigers, who are looking to upgrade at second base and third base, also are interested in Prado, reports Jon Paul Morisi of Foxports.com.
My take:
No way do I take Seth Smith for Prado. If the Braves pry away a CF as part of the package then maybe. I still think Detroit will give us the best return
Mark's for the Braves
November 30th, 2011
1:21 pm
We need McCann! Negotiate a contract with him during the 2012 season!
Jbailz
November 30th, 2011
1:23 pm
Does anyone that is calling for Mac to be traded and Ross start remember how sad it was to see Ross come to the plate while Mac was out with an oblique? I think he had the bases loaded 4 times and grounded into DP’s on 3 occasions. There are 2, maybe 3 better defensive catchers in baseball and not a single better offensive catcher. I do find it funny that everyone who complained about Gonzo being a liability with his bat but a good defender now want to trade one of our best bats for better defense. Well which do you want? Good offense or good defense, sometimes it’s hard to find both. You trade Mac and you’re trading the person that is our Chipper for the next 5 years. Bad idea. Mac has HOF talent. Let the kid play, maybe move him to 3B but for hecks sake don’t trade him!
RC
November 30th, 2011
1:26 pm
brian,
What do you think that Detriot would be able to offer for Prado?
Juan
November 30th, 2011
1:28 pm
Lew
November 30th, 2011
1:05 pm
Well, If that is the case, then it’s even more mystifying why teams like The Rays, The Nats and the Stros are so high on the list of TV Markets and even lower on the payroll scale than the Braves.
Answer is: Attendance…not TV rating….Atl is # 8 on Tv Markets, in 2011 # 15 in Attendance…yes o Middle Market attendance, not in TV rating and Revenue market.Two Different think…
DAP
November 30th, 2011
1:30 pm
lew Thirteenth of thirty teams is top tier? I don’t think so. Atlanta is exactly what I said – a mid market team.
tv share is not market rank, lew. its really not that hard. the braves are in a top 10 media market, even if there are 12 teams in front as far as tv share.
bravesfaninNashville
November 30th, 2011
1:31 pm
Don’t trade Mac. Just don’t extend his contract yet. He’s under contract through 2013 why hurry?
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
November 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
Yadier Molina is the best catcher in baseball, PERIOD. While not the best hitting catcher…he showed in the post season that he’s pretty clutch at the plate.
Also, his defense is outstanding. He shut down the running game of Philly, Milwaukee and Texas in the playoffs. Plus he’s durable.
Does St. Louis win the World Series with McCann as their starting catcher? Nope. Texas would have ran at will against McCann.
If McCann played any position other than catcher…he’d be known as a pretty good hitter….but not one worthy of making $15 mil a year.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
1:37 pm
Does St. Louis win the World Series with McCann as their starting catcher? Nope.
do they barely win the wild card by one game? nope. they run away with it. and yeah, mccann is a better player than molina.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
1:39 pm
http://espn.go.com/fantasy/blog/_/name/grey_jason/id/7298641/jason-grey-bids-farewell-loyal-espn-readers
Jason Grey leaving ESPN top become a pro scout for a major league team. Not that I expect many to know who he is…
brian
November 30th, 2011
1:39 pm
I wonder if the Bourn experience will have the Braves shooting for Fowler from the Rockies since the Braves have seen the benefits of speed
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
1:44 pm
I can’t believe the Dodgers are going to tender James Loney a contract.
bobbyc
November 30th, 2011
1:45 pm
Sign McCann to a 4 year ext, dangle Bethancourt out for trade bait along with some pitching to a team that needs a catcher down the line like the Mets Yankees or Red Socks. I am not talking a Teixeira kind of deal where we rent a player for a year and half trade him and get nothing I am talking like a Vasquez deal where we got something for him.
MFin04
November 30th, 2011
1:45 pm
“mccann is a better player than molina.”
Yeh, I don’t know about that. Certainly not looking at last years numbers. Both offensively and defensively…Yadier was the superior player.
Depends what it takes to sign McCann long-term….but it seems like he is the type of guy to take less money to stay with the Braves, but I don’t know that I’d overpay to keep him. The guy isn’t in that great of shape, isn’t a very good defensive catcher, and his offense is going to decline.
wtf?
November 30th, 2011
1:46 pm
If I’m Brian McCann I’m wanting to get so far away from this team and would take a pay cut to do it. Atlanta is done for decades in the winner department. Maybe Winnipeg would want the Braves too? Just wishful thinking
Larry30
November 30th, 2011
1:48 pm
This article fails to state that the braves already have a catcher on the team who is much better defensively and is already a better major league hitter than bethancourt, Ross. The notion that the braves would move McCann to first when they have a future gold glover and comparable hitter, freeman, already playing there is absurd. McCann is already a liability behind the plate and doesn’t have the footwork for first base. The only logical move for the braves is to trade him while his value is high and he is under contract. You could probably obtain the outfield “big bat” everyone is always crying for and let some other team worry about a monster contract for McCann. He will most certainly finish his career as a DH and the no brainer is to shop him to the AL and to do it now.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
1:49 pm
I would take Jackson or Fowler. Looks like they don’t want to trade Fowler. Maybe Prado for Jackson. Too little amount for DET? I love Prado, but truth is we have a 2nd baseman and nobody should pay $5-6 mill to a utility player, especially our team.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
1:50 pm
“If McCann played any position other than catcher…he’d be known as a pretty good hitter”
If Alex Gonzalez played any position but SS, he wouldn’t be in the league.
If George Sherrill was right handed, he’d be your mail-man.
If Nate Mclouth was a pitcher, every pitch would be an eephus.
If David Ross played any position but C, he’d be coaching already.
OK, I forgot my point. Too many ifs. Maybe I shoulda just went ‘If my aunt had balls…’
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
1:50 pm
Jeff R I believe McCann was sidelined in 2010 with an injury, though I can’t recall what it was.
He missed a couple games when he was having more eye problems, and he also missed 4 games with an injured quad, but that’s all…
I stand by my concern that catchers don’t age well and I’d be less inclined to give McCann another long term deal – one that takes him substantially into his 30s.
Well, I’ve got some money saved up…
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
1:53 pm
Love me some McCann. Only jersey I’ve ever owned.
But, if Molina hits at all in the future like he did last year, I’m takin’ Molina.
Rick
November 30th, 2011
1:54 pm
“Yeh, I don’t know about that. Certainly not looking at last years numbers. Both offensively and defensively…Yadier was the superior player. ”
Molina hit for a much higher average, but OPS is very similar because McCann took more walks . 814 OPS for Molina, 817 for McCann. Molina had 13 more 2Bs (probably due to McCann going for what seemed like weeks at the start of the season without a 2B) and half as many SOs, but McCann had 10 more HRs, 6 more RBIs, and 24 more BBs.
RC
November 30th, 2011
1:54 pm
MFin04,
I was all ready to dispute your point about Molina offense being up to par with Mac’s last year….and then I saw this:
http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=7007&playerid2=4810&playerid3=&position=C&page=8&type=full
They were REALLY close offensively last year…caught me by suprise. I would note that Mac has been ahead of him every other year, however, and that if I was placing a bet I’d go with the guy who’s career line is on the top half instead of the bottom half. But in 2011 they were really similar.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
1:55 pm
I hereby nominate McFann to not be taken seriously until she pesters her folks for driver’s license.
What kind of kid (outside of NYC, maybe) doesn’t want their license? I’m beginning to suspect foul play.
RC
November 30th, 2011
1:56 pm
If Nate Mclouth was a pitcher, every pitch would be an eephus. – BAS
That’s assuming the umpire didn’t stop to call him for a balk prior to his throw, with all the double and triple clutching of the ball before he throws it.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
1:58 pm
Priceless at 1:50, BAS.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:03 pm
Who is taking Alfonso Soriano? Even if the Cubs eat the entire contract, he is terrible.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
2:04 pm
BAS if Molina hits at all in the future like he did last year, I’m takin’ Molina.
yeah, sure. molina only out OPSed his own career average by a little over 100 points. im sure he’ll do alot more of that soon.
c’mon yall. molina had a career year and it still pales in comparison to what mccann has done in his career. mccann is a consitantly good offensive performer.
sometimes i cant believe yall. molina over mccann? please.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:08 pm
sometimes i cant believe yall. molina over mccann? please
I think he meant it as if Molina could continue what he did in 2011, then he would take Yadi because of his defense.
DAP
Six Year Old Girl at Turner Field Next June
November 30th, 2011
2:08 pm
As Uggla runs out to second base…………………Mommy: What did Cindy’s mommy mean when she said that Dan Uggla’s girlfriend made bad movies?
Ken Stallings
November 30th, 2011
2:08 pm
Based on who the Braves could get and what it would cost them, I’d rather roll the dice with Pasternicky at shortstop and use the extra money to try to get that left field bat, which would allow Prado to go back to being utility man par excellence, and good insurance if Heyward’s doldrums don’t improve.
Jbailz
November 30th, 2011
2:08 pm
RC – All I can see from those graphs is that Molina has had one or two years out of the “poor” section while McCann hasn’t been anywhere near it…
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:09 pm
not sure why “DAP” went below my remark. Weird.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
But, if Molina hits at all in the future like he did last year, I’m takin’ Molina
Pretty sure you’ll be saved from making that choice, BAS.
Texas would have ran at will against McCann.
Even if true, so what? You guys get so caught up in the speed thing, and forget that the offensive value of stolen bases is like a splinter in the wood of McCann’s bat.
Run all you want; it almost never matters when it comes to actually crossing the plate. Bad for a catcher’s self-esteem, maybe, but a cold beer and a wifely neck-rub pretty much takes care of that “problem”.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:14 pm
I guess the Cubs could bring up Brett Jackson to play CF and move Byrd to LF if they can find a taker for Soriano.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
2:16 pm
The most important thing when considering “market size” is REVENUE. Braves #10 in tv market, #12 in tv share, and #15 in attendance. I suspect that adds up to pretty close to middle of the pack revenue wise. Add to that the fact that a (very) few owners (maybe 2-3) are willing to make no profit or even lose money. All this means that the Braves payroll is probably about right. Like it or not…of course none of us likes it…but then, as I’ve said before, a different owner could very well spend less.
Lee in S GA
November 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
Agree with N8…no need to rush this. Ride the year out…see out he performs and if he stays healthy. Also agree that 3 years should be the limit no matter what….if he refuses and he might well so be it. First base (w/Freeman) and LF (just don’t see this at all) are out of the question for him.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
2:21 pm
“Pretty sure you’ll be saved from making that choice”
No doubt. Career year. All that.
I’m just a sucker for the chest protector block, and throwing behind runners. After seeing the stats on blocked balls, I suspect the two are pretty even there. Molina just does it the way we were all taught. McCann is all glove, all the time, and is incredibly good at it. But Molina’s tossin’ the ball around like it’s practice. Loved throwin’ behind people…
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
2:22 pm
Bay Area Steve I hereby nominate McFann to not be taken seriously until she pesters her folks for driver’s license.
Is that all you got? Come on…
My parents aren’t the issue, anyway—it’s me. It’s all on me…
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:23 pm
I don’t think Mac is going to sign a three year extension. It has to be at least four years with an option year(2018) attached.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
2:24 pm
“any chance Uggla to LF, Pastornicky at 2B and Simmons at SS next season”
This is what ‘OB has abandoned us for. Seriously.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
2:25 pm
Murph,
Ship McFann your old PS2 and a copy of Need for Speed, would ya? Let’s show her how not to be scared of a little traffic…
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
November 30th, 2011
2:26 pm
Even if true, so what? You guys get so caught up in the speed thing, and forget that the offensive value of stolen bases is like a splinter in the wood of McCann’s bat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>….
HAAAHAAAAHAAAA!!!!!!
LMFAO!!!!!!!
scoots just made my day with that little nugget of red neck logic
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
2:26 pm
Molina just does it the way we were all taught.
Yeah, I know. But you can like both blondes and brunettes, right?
The differences between McCann and Molina make for good bar conversations.
(By the way, that toujours thing? I was playing off Bonaparte’s quote: “L’audace! Toujours l’audace!”. Might have been a reach, though, LOL)
nolie
November 30th, 2011
2:27 pm
He isn’t atheltic enough to play LF …Efrim
now I sure do not agree with that statement, almost anybody can play left field. you don’t need speed and you don’t even need an arm. Easiest position in baseball to play and he is not THAT physically challenged
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:28 pm
This is what ‘OB has abandoned us for. Seriously.
Social media. Can’t live without it?
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
2:28 pm
just made my day with that little nugget of red neck logic
Always glad to help you out, Coach.
I know from long experience that there’s little hope of enlightening you, but, there may be other folks who can be, LOL.
Murph
November 30th, 2011
2:29 pm
BAS, good idea… although I believe McFann would learn more about driving from Grand Theft Auto.
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
2:32 pm
RC, tell you what I’d do.. fixing the Braves in the near term and long term.
Trade a package of Prado and Bourn to Detroit for a return of Jackson and Castellanos. This would allow us to replace Bourn with a comparable toolsy cf that would be under team control til 2016. Castellanos would give us a great prospect to take the 3rd base job once Chipper retires.
Then I would package JJ, Lipka, Hoover and Chapman and send them to KC for a return of Myers and Crow. Myers obviously would be the LF of the future and Crow would give us a power right hander to couple with Venters in the late innings, and also could possibly move to the rotation down the road.
Those 2 moves would free up around 25 to 35 million on the payroll allowing us to be more aggressive on the free agent market. Maybe allowing us to sign someone like CJ to match with Hudson at the top of the rotation. That would give us a great 1, 2 punch at the top righty, lefty.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:34 pm
now I sure do not agree with that statement, almost anybody can play left field.
Well, he certainly wouldn’t be playing it in 2012. I mean, more like 2018 or something when he is 35 years old and an extra four or five years of catching on his knees, right? I have to imagine he’d be a little worse of an athelete at that point, no?
Bobby Hill
November 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
I think DOB is really reaching for something to write about with this blog. There’s no real news and there’s nothing going on. This whole off season seems to be developing rather slowly for the entire league. I guess those big name free agents are kind of holding up the show.
McCann is under contract for two more years. A lot can happen in two years. There’s no reason to get too worried about it right now. This kind of thing has a way of sorting itself out.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:36 pm
And do we really want a 34 or 35 year old Brian McCann out in left field? I have trouble seeing it for some reason. I think the National League/no DH thing plays a factor in the long term prospects of extending McCann. I’m for giving him a contract extension, but the higher that AAV goes, the hotter in here it gets.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
Trade a package of Prado and Bourn to Detroit for a return of Jackson and Castellanos.
You didn’t mean to include Bourn in there. Nah. No way. You meant Bullock, not Bourn. Like Billy Bullock. Not Michael Bourn.
Lee in S GA
November 30th, 2011
2:40 pm
And do we really want a 34 or 35 year old Brian McCann out in left field?
————————————–
he!! no I don’t
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2011
2:42 pm
Really Dob? Because I believe Buster Posey was a 23 year old catcher last year when the Ginats won it all… — Chris
And your point is what?
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
2:45 pm
Efrim, no I actually meant Bourn. I don’t see Bourn as a long term solution. He’s a free agent at season’s end and I don’t think he’d be worth what it would take to sign him to an extension.
RC
November 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
AT,
I don’t completely hate the JJ-to-KC scenario you proposed, but I don’t see why Detriot would be willing to do the Jackson/Castellanos part of the deal.
Efrim,
34 year old Brian McCann likely wouldn’t be all that bad. We once had Ryan Klesko in LF….got to be better than that.
David O'Brien
November 30th, 2011
2:46 pm
I think DOB is really reaching for something to write about with this blog. There’s no real news and there’s nothing going on. — Bobby Hill
I’m quite thankful that we have a whole lot more fans and bloggers who like to talk about subjects such as the future of their six-time All-Star catcher, rather than folks such as yourself who apparently would prefer to repeat the names of free agents and trade possibilities ad nauseum, even if 95 percent of those free agents and trade scenarios aren’t even remote possibilities for the Braves.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
2:48 pm
I’m archiving some of these comments, so I can retrieve them easily when some no-lumber defensive whiz of a catcher hits .230 and gets excoriated here by the same folks making the posts I’m archiving.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:50 pm
34 year old Brian McCann likely wouldn’t be all that bad. We once had Ryan Klesko in LF….got to be better than that.
Yeah, I mean Rhino was 28 years old in his last season for the Braves. McCann will be 34 years old in 2018 and coming off of another 5 years of catching. I guess it’s only one season anyway. I’d just rather that aav to not be 18-20 million as some have suggested – which was my main point That’s a tough pill to swallow for me.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
2:51 pm
even if 95 percent of those free agents and trade scenarios aren’t even remote possibilities for the Braves.
…leading to the Occupy Hot Stove movement, prolly.
DAP
November 30th, 2011
2:51 pm
efrim I think he meant it as if Molina could continue what he did in 2011, then he would take Yadi because of his defense.
and im saying thats not gonna happen. there have been plenty of “flavors of the week” catchers come and go with good years since mccann came up and was consistently good year in and year out.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:52 pm
when some no-lumber defensive whiz of a catcher hits .230 and gets excoriated here by the same folks making the posts I’m archiving.
Don’t forget with a sub-.300 OBP and a sub-.400 SLG. But it’s cool, as he looks so much better behind the plate than Mac did.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
2:53 pm
Baseball America Best Defensive catcher—not that they could possibly be more knowledgeable than the board haters…..
2010-Molina, McCann, Olivo
2011 Molina, Ruiz, McCann
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
2:53 pm
DAP, yeah, Mac is the best right now. No better catcher in the sport.
RC
November 30th, 2011
2:54 pm
Efrim,
I agree that an AAV of $18-20M would likely be much too rich to keep Mac at. I would expect something in the $16M range to make a little more sense, probably for 4 years with an option for a 5th.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
2:55 pm
Yogi did it.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
there have been plenty of “flavors of the week” catchers come and go
Soto. Navarro. Others who are obviously easily forgotten, since I can’t remember them.
Piazza would hit 30-40 dingers every year, and fans would moan about his passed balls. Go figure.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
Yogi did it.
Stole picnic baskets?
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
2:59 pm
jeffrey – That would be “pic -i-nic” for Yogi, and he had Boo Boo to help.
He Hate Me
November 30th, 2011
3:00 pm
Jason Heyward is a BUST! Please trade him now while you MIGHT get something in return! This time next year will be too late but bank on him going .200 ish again with about 13 HR and 70 rbi.
Selfish player from a selfish family. Good riddance!
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:01 pm
I’m sure Mac could do it. I’d just rather it be for lesser than 18-20 million.
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
3:02 pm
RC, Detroit has been mentioned as one of the possible teams very interested in Prado but was thought to not want to move Jackson. Although I think moving Prado would have to bring a greater return than just Jackson but giving Bourn in the deal would allow us to bring one of their top 3 prospect back in return and also give them a replacement CF.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:03 pm
Some catchers have had remarkable longevity, in light of the demands of the position. Many have not. No way to know how long Mac will hold up. We DO know he is the best catcher in the NL, and maybe MLB. Some Bozos….err…individuals here don’t seem to get that, but you can ask anyone around baseball….players, managers, analysts, and unbiased knowledgeble fans…overwhelming majority agree he’s currently an elite catcher.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:04 pm
AT, who would hit leadoff? Because I’m hoping that you don’t plan to hit Jackson there.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:05 pm
HHM – Yeah, say outragious things, stir that pot, and see how much attention you can get… classic case of “look at me, please look at me”.
jim
November 30th, 2011
3:07 pm
Like someone posted a bit earlier, McCann’s numbers for an OF or corner IF position are good, but not outstanding. If the Braves could get Molina-like production and good D out of Bethancourt or someone else a catcher, and McCann-like numbers from LF or 3B (after Chipper) we’d be OK. I’m in the reluctant to extend group because it does not make sense to give more than 3 years to a 30 year old catcher (in 2013) at the money Mac could command on the open market. If the NL had a DH, the discussion would be a lot different, but
1) Many catchers have declined precipitusly after 32-33 years old — Bench, Carter, Campy, Yogi (he played semi-regularly in LF late into his career, but look at the power numbers)
2) Mac does not have another position — offense is nice, but defense does matter too
3) Mac has had problems with his eyes, and vision does not get better with age. If he were to have vision problems in the middle of a big contract, the team would be screwed.
There are three options:
1) extend him now
2) wait and see until after 2012 or 2013
3) trade him now
1) If Mac could be extended to 2015 by taking ~16 million/year, then do it, but it Makes no sense for him. His value as a FA catcher at 32 years old would not be worth nearly as much as it would be as a 30 year old in 2013. Extension now make no sense for the team or the player
2) wait until next year or 2013 — the most prudent option, but te chance of signing a bad contract or getting nothing for the player are increased.
3) Trade him now. Given his age and contract status, he will never be worth more in a trade. Makes sense if you are building for the future and willing to live with Ross for a year or two until you determine if/when Bethancourt is the answer. (I am not as sold on the Braves chances next year with a few tweaks to last year’s team as many on this blog, and would not be upset by this option if we got good young return — I would do the Mac for Justin Upton trade someone mentioned earlier if the finances were right in a heartbeat)
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:07 pm
On another note: Bobby bleepin’ Valentine? Marrying up with Ben Cherington? How long could that possibly last?
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:07 pm
Selfish player from a selfish family. Good riddance!
What the heck is that suppose to mean?
By the way, did anyone know that Bill Shanks has it on authority that Jason Heyward doesn’t love baseball?
I guess that means Baseball : Jason :: Prospects : Efrim ? Is that even the right symbol usage?
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
3:07 pm
ncscoots, pastor possibly.
RC
November 30th, 2011
3:09 pm
ncscoots,
Prado would hit leado…..ohhhhhhhh.
RC
November 30th, 2011
3:09 pm
ncscoots,
Constanza would hit leadoff….long as he has the hot hand.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:09 pm
Bobby V owns a couple restaurants in the Norwalk/Stamford, CT area(my hometown area). Came to my parents place once and was a really nice dude to my fam. I’m not sure “discipline needed” and Bobby V makes sense though, right?
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:10 pm
Tigers re-signed INF Ramon Santiago to a two-year contract.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:10 pm
Baseball America Best Defensive catcher—not that they could possibly be more knowledgeable than the board haters…..
2010-Molina, McCann, Olivo
2011 Molina, Ruiz, McCann
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:11 pm
hah, nolie. Make sure you post it on every page. Or half page.
Murph
November 30th, 2011
3:12 pm
I like when people give predictions for players that are overly specific… Heyward will hit 13 HR, 71 RBI, including going 1-4 in the final game of the season with a single to right field in the 7th inning on 1-2 count with the bases empty and a gametime temperature of 72 degrees, slight breeze out of the south at 8mph, and Rick Perry watching on TV from his hotel room having just finished a leftover waffle from that morning’s room service brought to his room by a homely woman named Patrice.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:12 pm
I noticed that earlier I said 5 years 90 mil, I meant 5 years 80 mil.
fumblefingers
RC
November 30th, 2011
3:12 pm
Bill Shanks has a lot of things on authority. Unfortnately one of them isn’t working knowledge of how to evaluate baseball players.
BradB
November 30th, 2011
3:12 pm
If the Braves do not re-sign McCann, the entire fan base will be up in arms. He has been the only reason to watch the Braves for the past few years and he only he had a down second half due to his injury. He will be back, as will the Braves in 2012.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:13 pm
good idea Efrim. If I do it enuff maybe the idiots will get so tired of it that they drop the subject…
unlikely I guess, but I might give it a shot
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:15 pm
Trade him now. Given his age and contract status, he will never be worth more in a trade.
There’s a point at which every player hits your “never be worth more in a trade” position. The problem is that same point is usually when he’s worth the most to your team by being on it.
The philosophy of maximizing a player’s value by receiving future potential always fails to account for the value of actually paying and keeping the player. It’s short-sighted, to me. Such a philosphy only guarantees that the team never puts the best team possible on the field, given financial constraints and available personnel. Such a team will always be “a year or two away”.
I have to admit, I’m not a big fan of that.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:16 pm
now I gotta admit that I do not quite see him as a top three NL defensive catcher myself, but I damn sure KNOW that he is not the klutz that so many here portray him as, though I also believe that we have a Lou/Earl situation with a number of the McChubb haters
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:17 pm
I noticed that earlier I said 5 years 90 mil, I meant 5 years 80 mil.
fumblefingers
I figured as much as you referenced 16 a year.
Tomas was talking 20 million per year. Mac is my favorite, but I just can’t do that.
Bobby Hill
November 30th, 2011
3:17 pm
DOB,
I’m not complaining about the blog topic, I’m just lamenting the fact that there’s not much going on right now.
ScottBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
3:17 pm
They better sign McCann up. He’s the face of the franchise once Chipper retires.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:18 pm
nolie – Do we really want to keep a guy who is the best hitter, but only the 2nd or 3rd best defensively for his position?
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:19 pm
good question raleigh, I will have to cogitate on that one a while
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:20 pm
no I caint see 20mil or even near it
DawgDad
November 30th, 2011
3:22 pm
So much wrongheaded analysis in this article. First, the decision on McCann should be all about McCann and his inherent downside risk, not about other prospects. The Braves need to think very long and hard about investing multiple millions over multiple years in any single player. The team has not demonstrated acute acumen in making these types of commitments, and a catcher with a lot of games under his belt, limited mobility and ability to play other positions, with health issues and coming off a horrible second half is not a good long-term risk.
Similarly, Wren should go into trade talks with an open mind. Pastornicky is a low-value commodity at this point, nothing special to bet your future on. If the Rockies want to trade Tulowitzki for JJ, Prado, and TP, or JJ, McCann, and TP, best give that serious consideration.
Of COURSE the Braves need another starting outfielder, or two. They haven’t fielded a full complement for years, and Bourn is a Boras client. They also need dependable starting pitching and pieces to plug into the bullpen.
They might want to address the fact the second and third basemen aren’t worth half the money they earn, and the only significant upside potential is one of them retiring.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
3:22 pm
ncscoots I’m archiving some of these comments, so I can retrieve them easily when some no-lumber defensive whiz of a catcher hits .230 and gets excoriated here by the same folks making the posts I’m archiving.
They’ll deny it, of course…
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:23 pm
another pollyanna heard from
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
3:23 pm
McCann will get around 13-15 mil a season from the Braves, I just dont see them going much higher than that.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:23 pm
There’s a point at which every player hits your “never be worth more in a trade” position.
There are a certain few who constantly post blogs and tweets(everyone knows who I am talking about) about trading EVERY player because they are 2 years away from free agency for future value. Makes no sense to me. I’m all for prospects too.
And I probably would of been okay with Jurrjens and Prado going – as long as My boy Beltran was in LF and Big Game was in the rotation for half of what he made in 2011. Not happening. But that’s pretty much the only scenario I liked.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
3:27 pm
McCann will likely make more that 13mil in 2013 Va.at least if the Mayans were wrong anyway
unlikely he will sign a contract with no raises
Sopheee
November 30th, 2011
3:28 pm
We can throw these around again. Maybe knock some sense into certain people.
http://i43.tinypic.com/5mbam0.jpg
Brave New World
November 30th, 2011
3:30 pm
McCann can flat out hit. He is a decent, but not great, defensive catcher. We have him for at least 2 more years, but I would think the Braves would want him for at least 3 more beyond that. Beyond 5 years gets risky, especially for a catcher.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
McCann will likely make more that 13mil in 2013 Va.at least if the Mayans were wrong anyway
I keep forgetting about the Mayan long count calendar. Oh, that should be fun this time next year.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:32 pm
But that’s pretty much the only scenario I liked.
Keep Zeke. Everything else, I’m good with.
cricket
November 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
They might want to address the fact the second and third basemen aren’t worth half the money they earn, and the only significant upside potential is one of them retiring.
trade chipper’s expiring contract, his value will never be higher…
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:35 pm
That’s hilarious, Soph.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:35 pm
trade chipper’s expiring contract, his value will never be higher…
Kimbrel and Freeman. No chance their value will ever be higher, is there? 1 and 2 in ROY, and five years of club control? Oughta be able to get a boatload for those two.
Jimmy
November 30th, 2011
3:35 pm
The McCann issue is two years out. Alot can happen in two years.
DOB certainly got the fire started.
Looking at the HOF ballot, I see only two names I would vote for:
Jack Morris and Jeff Bagwell.
Murph is borderline and none of the others warrant HOF status.
wjones
November 30th, 2011
3:36 pm
Those who think McCann won’t get an opportunity to DH in the NL, remember that starting in 2013 the NL gets to play interleague games weekly, so a minimum of at least one NL team will play interleague ball EVERY WEEK. Whether this translates into more interleague games is anyone’s guess, but the possibility is certainly there.
cricket
November 30th, 2011
3:38 pm
trade bethancourt after next year, his value will never be higher…
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:39 pm
Constantly trading your best players at peak value = Constant mediocrety, and endless state of rebuilding.
When was the last time Oakland and Pittsburg went to the WS…or even post-season?
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:41 pm
Trade the Latin Trio while they are still prospects and before they go bust. Value will never be higher.
(I mean, that’s the logical end to that whole train of thought, isn’t it, LOL? If two years away from FA is good, then surely four or five years away is better, no? And better still, if you can trade them before they have any service time at all, then that has to be best, right? Right?)
Murph
November 30th, 2011
3:41 pm
trade bethancourt after next year, his value will never be higher…
That’s assuming he continues to play the way he did in the AFL and doesn’t revert back to what he’s done the rest of his career.
If he’s going to be traded, now might be the best time to max out on his return.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
The blog should probably trade me, too; pretty bleepin’ sure that my value will never be higher.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
I’m suprised we haven’t seen the people calling for a BJ Upton trade out in full force wanting him for LF this year. I may end up stirring all that up with this post but I’d imagine hes a trade candidate. But then again he will probably end up being to expensive.
bravesgrl4Life
November 30th, 2011
3:45 pm
KEEP MCCANN!!!!!!!!!! I’d like to see Mac have the Braves career Chipper has had. And I was a big ole Javy fan back in the day, so for me to feel so strong about another catcher says something, at least to me. But I proudly wear my #16 jersey to every game I attend.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:47 pm
wjones – Actually, it’s not “anybody’s guess”. They said on XM that you would play about the same # of interleague games per year, they’d just be spread out. If you or I or anyone else bothered to take the time to figure it up mathmatically, you can predict almost exactly how many interleague games there would be…
and the answer is…not enough interleague games for a NL team to pay a guy $15 mil to DH.
FlyOnTheWall
November 30th, 2011
3:48 pm
Anybody know how many of those stolen bases Mac gave up was when Hanson was pitching? You have to throw all of those bases out because they were already stolen before Hanson got the ball out of his glove.
I’d be looking at moving Hanson before Mac…if anybody would have him.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:49 pm
trade bethancourt after next year, his value will never be higher…
Don’t forget Venters, because all relievers are expensive through free agency and that means we have to cash in on Jonny with him 4 years away from hitting the open market.
Tex like haul, book it.
Linebrinks Security
November 30th, 2011
3:50 pm
If the Braves are looking to trade one Jurrjens and one Prado (imo, two very good players) then why wouldn’t they want to drop Mac because they don’t want to pay him a lot? I’m hoping that’s not the case. “Brian McCann is the future of the Braves … at least until he costs a lost and his replacement is found”.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:50 pm
I’d be looking at moving Hanson before Mac…if anybody would have him.
Yeah, I mean he’s the best pitcher in the organization if healthy. But please, get him outta here.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:51 pm
scoots – Yeah, you have a point, although you will always be worth more here than we pay you. I’m, as they say, “day to day”.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:51 pm
Pcola, I’ve been surprised by the lack of Bossman Junior trade scenarios. I just don’t think we match up with them. They have a pitching surplus and so do we.
Steve
November 30th, 2011
3:52 pm
I love McCann for his abilitiy, professionalism and leadership.
That being said I consider it a golden rule of baseball to NEVER sign a catcher about to enter his 30’s to a long-term deal. Unless my math is wrong he will be 29 by the time the vesting options run out if the Braves don’t re-up him before that time. That is pushing it for a catcher .. especially one that has played as many innings in the hot Southern summers as Brian has.
As a Braves fan I think the contract should be limited to around age 34 or so, but that might not be enough to keep him. when you look at catchers like Piazza, IRod, Varitek, Posada, Javy Lopez, Johny Bench hundreds of others, they all started really back-sliding around 34-35 and that was during the steroid age. Prior to the steroid age, most catchers started their declines between 30-32.
You just don’t want to get stuck with some huge contract for a declining player, especially if you have a decent replacement available for $10+ million a year less that needs to get experience anyway.
I really hope McCann stays with the Braves for a series of rolling options that might be ‘acheivement’ based, though I think most of those type contracts are illegal in the last CBA(except for basic stats like games played). My guess is he will get offered 5-6 years by an AL team to catch/DH and the Braves would simply be silly to match that based only on making him a fan friendly franchise player.
As for Chipper, he may be a fan based franchise player contract type of guy, but based on pure stats he is still one of the top 3-4 third baseman in the NL. In fact, he was only one of three full time third baseman that had 500 ab’s in the NL last year .. despite missing games for a cleanup surgery. The fact he did that and still finished in the top 5 in third baseman in BA, Avg, and RBI in the NL is crazy.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
Sopheee—
Heck yeah!!…
bravesgrl4life!!!
Great to read from you again! How’s everything going?
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:53 pm
A whole two signings today: David DeJesus and Ramon Santiago
Hot Stove is burning. I can’t take it.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
Flyonthewall
I posted it this morning on page 3 or 4. While Hanson was on the mound basestealers were successful 30 times out of 33 and 26 of 30 with Lowe on mound.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
I just read a Cubs Top 15 prospects list. Both Chicago teams: 29 and 30.
RC
November 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
If the Braves are looking to trade one Jurrjens and one Prado (imo, two very good players) then why wouldn’t they want to drop Mac because they don’t want to pay him a lot?
Because while JJ and Prado are very good players, they are also relatively easily replaced, and can bring assets in return that the Braves need and can use. With 8 potential starting pitchers on the team, JJ is expendable if he can help the team fill another hole. And while Prado is a good player, he is much more valuable as a 2b than as a LF, so if the Braves can receive a LF of comparable value to Prado’s value as a 2b back, it could be an upgrade for both teams.
McCann is the #1 catcher in the major leagues. That is not easily replacable, or really replacable at all. In order for trading McCann to “make sense” they would need to have a way of getting a player of similar value that plays catcher back, and those guys just don’t exist.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
3:55 pm
I’m, as they say, “day to day”.
Ain’t we all, brother, ain’t we all.
Bobby Hill
November 30th, 2011
3:55 pm
I think that an ideal pitching rotation is a mix of young guys and veterans. Even if the Braves could field a rotation with Beachy, Minor, Teharan, and Delgado all at the same time in a couple of years, I don’t think that’s really a recipe for success.
Why not trade Delgado for a high upsdie, CF concept?
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
Steve – You must be wrong about Chipper. Just read the blog to know he’s an overpaid hack. By all means, don’t confuse us with the FACTS.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
Efrim
Agreed. I don’t know if they’d take a stab at some of our lesser prospects and I don’t think they need Prado. Not that I’m advocating for BJ but I just don’t know where a fit is with them. Plus the guy K’s a lot. Really suprised he hasn’t been thrown around more though. He will probably end up one of those quiet trades that happen next week if he gets moved.
RC
November 30th, 2011
3:56 pm
Efrim,
I think the Upton scenarios died with the Bourn trade, since both will be free agents next year.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
3:59 pm
RC, true. They probably haven’t talked much.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:01 pm
Hello everyone! Braves are not going to trade Mac,and he’s a good enough person to sign a nice deal ,and work with. I’ll bet my life on it……a little humor.
cricket
November 30th, 2011
4:01 pm
Tex like haul, book it.
For any trade, may all braves’ hauls be Tex-like and may all the returns be Grienke-like..
DAP
November 30th, 2011
4:01 pm
bobby hill Why not trade Delgado for a high upsdie, CF concept?
id like to get more than a concept…maybe a actual, physical baseball player. or maybe they could throw in a couple of warm fuzzies and one of a goal or aspiration along with the CF concept?
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:02 pm
Now that Bobby Valentine is Boston manager, he can get all the chicken he wants…….
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
Bourn, will sign a contract like Ugglas’ and it will be within reason…..
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:03 pm
I love when baseball projection sites use “comparable” players for people that are about as uncomparable as two human beings can be. Dan Szymborski’s ZIPS projections for the SF Giants came out today, and Tim Lincecum has the following “comparables”:
Comp 1: Kevin Appier
Comp 2: Bartolo Colon*
Comp 3: Bob Welch
*Emboldened to emphasize girth
FlyOnTheWall
November 30th, 2011
4:05 pm
P’cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
3:54 pm
Flyonthewall
I posted it this morning on page 3 or 4. While Hanson was on the mound basestealers were successful 30 times out of 33 and 26 of 30 with Lowe on mound.
Thanks…I tried to read the whole blog but missed your post…I’m not surprised at the D Lowe stat either…Hanso will never be injury free unless he changes that delivery…we need to dump him while we can still get something for him.
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:05 pm
Bourn, will sign a contract like Ugglas’ and it will be within reason…..
Which one? Will he sign a contract like Uggla’s, or will it be within reason?
TennesseePaul
November 30th, 2011
4:07 pm
Yogi did it.
Shut your mouth.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:09 pm
Do your really think Wren will let Bourn go? Come on get real…….
TennesseePaul
November 30th, 2011
4:09 pm
For any trade, may all braves’ hauls be Tex-like and may all the returns be Grienke-like…
…and may all players given up be Chuck Thomas-like, and may the Mets always lose.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:10 pm
meant to say do you.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
4:10 pm
I’d also bet Ward’s life that we don’t trade McCann.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
4:10 pm
Enter your comments here
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
Flyonthewall
I kinda agree with you there on Hanson. I’d almost rather hold onto JJ and move Hanson because I think the greater injuries lie within Hanson. He scares me and I’m just waiting on the time he will need shoulder/elbow surgery.
raleighbravefan
November 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
Don’t know how that happened.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
RC – Are you really Braves Fan,or some one who just comes on the blog to stir crap up?
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
4:12 pm
“*Emboldened to emphasize girth”
How good is that? Must be what Charlie Sheen meant by winning…
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:13 pm
Muurp – Is right, we are not going to hear anything until Dallas.
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
RC – Are you really Braves Fan,or some one who just comes on the blog to stir crap up?
Is neither an option? I simply don’t think that Bourn is worth an Uggla-like contract.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:14 pm
Murph- I thinks it’s too early to even talk about Bethancourt,so let him mature in the minors.What do you think?
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
4:15 pm
I don’t know that Wren will resign Bourn. Boras will push him as an elite defensive CF with great speed and want a suitable contract. Really Bourn has up and down years every year. Ones good, the other bad. He was having a career year in Houston and came to Atlanta and put up numbers more near his career line. I have a hard time wanting to go anymore than 10 mil for him and that is even really a stretch. Speed doesn’t necessarily age well and we’ve never been a big running team.
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:16 pm
RC – We will just have to see,but I have a good feeling Bourn, will be a Brave .Boras has been getting a lot a of negatives with the Free Agent Market lately.
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:17 pm
Anyone know if Adam Kennedy getting a major league deal qualifies him for the Sushi list?
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:20 pm
Bobby Valentine and the Boston press. Should be interesting.
Is the Cliff Floyd story true? He says that BV called him to tell him he was going to the All Star game. Cliff bought his tickets only to find he was not on the All Star team.
BV is a great baseball mind, but as far as I’m concerned, you can have him.
Bat Masterson
November 30th, 2011
4:20 pm
Good read DOB, thanks.
Heap’s a good topic to drive page hits. Not to mention one that will bring out the stupid constituency and give them an opportunity to show off such.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:21 pm
David DeJesus gets 2 years and 10 million??
Boy, ten million doesn’t buy much any more…………
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
4:22 pm
Mike Newman brought up the McCutchen trade on Fangraphs yesterday: Teheran, Vizcaino, Pastornicky and a 4th player.
Now Huntington is listening…..
still wouldn’t do it. But he didn’t hang up almost instantaneously. From the Braves standpoint, that’s a ton to give up, but Cutch is awesome….
Ward
November 30th, 2011
4:22 pm
All it’s getting near……..Let’s hope something good comes out of this.We need to get into the Play-Offs next season. Anything else is un-civilized,and unaccepted……peace all……
cricket
November 30th, 2011
4:25 pm
Do your really think Wren will let Bourn go?
Bourn is too fast for Wren to stop him
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
4:27 pm
McCann, Chipper and Heyward drive page hits here big time. Prado and a Jurrjens trade would get ya up there as well.
Beltran for two years and 25 million = 650 posts of “Hell yeah” from Efrim.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:28 pm
Bourn is a scrawny dude though. If Wren catches him by surprise, I’d think he could pin him down………….
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:29 pm
Everybody remember the old-man manager in “The Natural”, played by Wilford Brimley? Brimley was only FOURTY-NINE when that movie came out! Even crazier? Robert Redford was 47.
I think Brimley came out of the womb looking like Benjamin Button.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
I really hopew Prado is NOT traded. Too valuable given that it would take two players to replace him and given that we know he has an extremely strong work ethic and tons of pride, he’ll be back with a vengeance.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
and 3-4 pages of “Amen!” from DS1
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:30 pm
Bourn is a scrawny dude though. If Wren catches him by surprise, I’d think he could pin him down…………
Wren is going to catch him using a giant catapult that he got from a box with “ACME” on the side.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:33 pm
Efrim
If the Pirates are listening, I think I’d have to at least look into Andrew M.
But I don’t think I’d include Bethancourt.
CB
November 30th, 2011
4:36 pm
And a couple hallelujahs from CB!
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
4:36 pm
Efrim, I’d give that up for McCutchen as long as that 4th player wasn’t another top prospect and/or one of our better players with the big club. We’d still have deep pitching and could find somebody to fill in at SS until Simmons is ready. McCutchen hasn’t even hit his prime yet. His best years are stil ahead imo. You could let Bourn walk after ‘12 and throw AM there who is just as good, if not a better CF.
Listen to me, getting excited over nothing. That teams top officia person just said they aret trading McCutchen anyways.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
4:42 pm
If we were top get McCutcheon, it would be about five minutes before someone was here griping about how much he’d ost us in arbitration next year (and going forward) and try to get him traded since his value was as high as it ever would be.
Jbailz
November 30th, 2011
4:44 pm
How nice would it be to have Bourn and McCutch in the same OF? I know it won’t happen but DANG that’d be fun to watch. I’d probably HAVE to get the Extra Innings Package if that happened. Heyward isn’t exactly a slouch defensively either, if he can get his confidence back
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
4:46 pm
How nice would it be to have Bourn and McCutch in the same OF?
One year together, and their value would never be higher.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:46 pm
With Frank Wren’s unpredictability, it is really going to be interesting to see which way he goes this winter.
After the debacle of an off season of 2008, I think that at times he is allusive to maybe throw off the other 29 GM’s.
It’s going to be a fun week next week four shore.
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
4:46 pm
Still like my trade options, then sign Beltran to play LF.
Pastor, ss
Heyward, rf
Chipper, 3rd
Uggla, 2nd
McCann, c
Beltran, lf
Heyward, rf
Jackson, cf
Hudson
Wilson
Hanson
Beachy
Minor
Kimbrel
Venters
Crow
EOF
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
4:49 pm
Imagine the value of McCutchen and Heyward…….wait for it……
at bat at the same time……
BOOM!!!(universe explodes)
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:50 pm
AT
Ain’t happening buddy. Bourn is here for 2012. And in your lineup, no way does Uggla hit 4th with Beltran hitting 6th.
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
4:52 pm
BOOM!!!(universe explodes)
Value would be so high as to blind all other GMs to even the possibility.
My gosh, with McCutchen, the value of the whole dang team may never be higher.
So, as soon as they acquire the guy, they should trade the entire 25-man. Ergo.
Arkansas Transplant
November 30th, 2011
4:52 pm
DS1, yeah but I’m dreaming BIG. I’d be okay with moving Beltran up and Uggla down.
Lew
November 30th, 2011
4:53 pm
No way does Beltran ever play for the Braves. Wren isn’t gpoing to take chances on expensive players with an injury history.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:56 pm
AT
I’m afraid your plan for Jackson is not going to come to fruition. Just trying to let you down easy.
Why would Detroit do that deal?
ncscoots
November 30th, 2011
4:57 pm
You could let Bourn walk after ‘12 and throw AM there who is just as good, if not a better CF.
Yeah, except that there won’t be much trade currency left to find a LF and 3B, huh?
Maybe Adam Milligan stays healthy.
RC
November 30th, 2011
4:58 pm
AT
Ain’t happening buddy. Bourn is here for 2012. And in your lineup, no way does Uggla hit 4th with Beltran hitting 6th.
Pastornicky is leading off in this lineup, and you are concerned about Uggla and Beltran being 4 and 6?
IF Pastornicky starts this season as the Braves starting SS, he will bat 8th. IF he bats anywhere else, I will have to seriously think about not attending another Braves game until Fredi G. is gone.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
4:58 pm
Bat M. Heap’s a good topic to drive page hits. Not to mention one that will bring out the stupid constituency and give them an opportunity to show off such.
You got that right…
DS1
November 30th, 2011
4:59 pm
We are all forgetting one key ingredient to our lineup. “Georgie” Constanza! Georgie is going to solve all our lineup problems.
IABrave
November 30th, 2011
5:07 pm
Constanza plays for the Twins
rugburn
November 30th, 2011
5:12 pm
whatever else we do, we need to send uggla to spring training next week so that he’ll be ready to hit by april. that would have fixed alot of problems last year.
NickB
November 30th, 2011
5:22 pm
I really am not in favor of re-signing Bourn if he wants anything more than 3 yrs $24-25 mill (and he will). As pointed out above, his entire game is based on speed and defense. His hitting is okay for a CF’er, but I fear that any team that offers him 5 years $50mill+ is going to regret those last 2 years.
KK
November 30th, 2011
5:24 pm
First
Patrick
November 30th, 2011
5:34 pm
The rumor mill seems rather quiet with the winter meetings coming up next week
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
5:54 pm
Imagine this
Bourn
McCutchen
Jones
Uggla
McCann
Freeman
Heyward
SS-??
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
Not that it’d happen anyways, but getting McCutchen definitely won’t happen now with us yappin about him. Wren surprises even the best like DOB, Lew and nolie. I bet he does it again.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
6:19 pm
Wren surprises even the best like DOB, Lew and nolie. I bet he does it again.
AP – Atlanta GM Frank Wren trades Braves’ entire starting outfield for Wrigley Field’s ivy.
“I just think it looks neat,” Wren reported.
Alex BYE BYE Baby
November 30th, 2011
6:38 pm
I think it would be a mistake to sign McCann long term. His most recent production has shown that he is regressing somewhat.
They really need to get a power hitting LF.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
6:38 pm
Okay, that didn’t really happen guys….you can come back
Steve from OH
November 30th, 2011
6:38 pm
Maybe Adam Milligan stays healthy.
Scoots, you read my mind.
So what’s this McCutchen thing? I haven’t read the blog.
Alex BYE BYE Baby
November 30th, 2011
6:43 pm
Trading Teheran,Vizcaino,and Pastornicky (3 future all-stars) for one McCuthchen would be beyong retarded ! I wouldn’t trade Teheran straight up for McCutchen.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
6:44 pm
I really don’t think Pastornicky will be an All Star
Alex BYE BYE Baby
November 30th, 2011
6:47 pm
3 to 5 years from now Pastornicky IS projected to be an all-star type player. So you think he will not get better and develop more power ? He should….
Alex BYE BYE Baby
November 30th, 2011
6:50 pm
Teheran was voted THE BEST pitcher in all of the minor leagues. That means he’s expected to be a young version of Roger Clemens,Nolan Ryan,Greg Maddux. You wouldn’t trade either of those three for McCutchen straight up.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
6:56 pm
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/18804/who-says-no-braves-or-red-sox
This just kills Schoenfield’s cred. Minor for Jed Lowrie? Who says no? Are you kidding me?
I thought it was an error and it was Mike Minor for Brett Lawrie.
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
6:57 pm
Alex
Your nuts..I’d trade any one of them straight up for McCutchen..Hell I’d trade Vizciano and Pastornicky for him. There prospects, regardless of what there rated and projected to do they dont always pan out. McCutchen is a proven 25 year old All Star who is under control til 2016. Talking about a guy who is good at every aspect of the game and only getting better.
Jbailz
November 30th, 2011
6:58 pm
So you won’t trade McCutchen who is a 5 tool player and has proven himself in the BIG leagues for Pastornicky, who may someday be an all star, and two top prospects that haven’t done anything in the BIG leagues? I’d do it in a heartbeat, McCutchen is what Jason Heyward is supposed to be but with more speed.
Jbailz
November 30th, 2011
6:58 pm
VA – You beat me to it!!!
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
6:59 pm
The Rockies are close to signing Ramon Hernandez to a two-year deal and trading Chris Iannetta to the Angels, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Tyler Chatwood should be going from the Angels to the Rockies in the deal, according to Troy Renck of the Denver Post (on Twitter). Teams are now examining medicals.
Yay. Hot stove getting warmer.
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
7:00 pm
Efrim
Yeah lol, during the chat he did see the bigger picture and realized it wouldnt be good deal for Atlanta. Most consider Mike Minor nothing special a pure back end guy so there not gonna value him high
BFChris27
November 30th, 2011
7:00 pm
Rockies close to signing Ramon Hernandez to a 2 year deal and sending Chris Ianetta to Angels for Tyler Chatwood.
I would think, Rockies could be getting Tyler Chatwood and possibly spinning him in another deal, Chatwood is friends with Hanson I think? Well, perhaps Prado for Chatwood and a CF perhaps?
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
7:01 pm
I’d trade McCutchen for Pastornicky and one of the big 3 pitching prospects. But not two of them.
And if I’m the Pirates’ GM, there’s no way I’d accept that trade.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
7:02 pm
Rockies still need more pitching, imo. Chacin, Hammel, and three holes. I guess Pomeranz, Chatwood and Nicasio could take those spots though…
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
7:05 pm
Rockies should be interested in Jurrjens you think. They need ground ball pitchers in that park.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
7:10 pm
Rockies should be interested in Jurrjens you think. They need ground ball pitchers in that park.
Maybe we can trade back for Lowe and then offer him for that 3B prospect Arenado
VaBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
7:12 pm
Depending on if teams had interest in Simmons or Pastornicky, I’d consider trading Mike Minor for Jose Iglesias. Slick Fielding Shortstop from the RedSox who will start the year in AAA.
Efrim
November 30th, 2011
7:15 pm
I don’t see Rockies dealing for Jurrjens. We’d want Nolan.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
November 30th, 2011
7:22 pm
The late Bill Walsh once said, “it’s better to trade a player a year early…than a year late”.
If the Braves were to trade McCann, now would be the best time to do it. With 2 years left on his contract (2013 option year will be picked up no doubt)…the Braves could command a premium package from a team like the Yankees.
Braves fans, like it or not….McCann is perfect for the American League. He could still catch most of the time…however, on his off days behind the plate, he could DH (meaning that his productive bat wont be out of the lineup).
McCann can flat out hit. However, with the demands of the catching position requiring more days off during the season than other positions…..it hurts our line-up having our cleanup hitter (5th against lefties) not start 30 games a season (assuming he doesnt get injured). Most other teams can pencil their middle of the order bashers to play around 150 games a season (again, assuming injury doesnt occur).
If McCann played in the American League, he could easily start 150+ games a year (whether catching or DHing). Imagine his stats if he didnt have to rest 30 games a year.
Buster Posey can play 1st (meaning that the Giants can still have his bat in the lineup when he’s not catching)…Joe Mauer can also DH in the AL for the Twins. But with McCann seemingly unable or unwilling to play another position…..the logical thing to do would be to trade him to the American League while his value is still high.
I actually like what McCann brings to the Braves lineup (minus his shacky defense). I just feel that it would be a bad investment for the Braves to potentially pay someone $15 mil plus…….whose a guarantee to miss AT LEAST 30 games a year (starting, not including pinch hitting appearances)….assuming he stays healthy. It would be a huge mistake to cater to sentimental Braves fans…just because they have an insatiable need to feel good about and stay attached to their favorite players.
This is a business (making money and winning). The Braves would be foolish to not at least explore the option of trading McCann this off season.
Sam
November 30th, 2011
7:25 pm
Amazing video of a high school senior from Columbia TN who kicks the ball dead straight 75-80 yards in the air. He was successful on 54 of 54 attempts this season….100%. Now he needs a college team. Wants to go to Georgia Tech!!!
Watch for yourself…it is unreal!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JKwgwFY3g
old man
November 30th, 2011
7:29 pm
The talk about McCutch has my heart pumping. If you look at our young arms, we have Tehran, Viz, DelGado, Minor, Gilmartin, (I think I’m missing one or two–help me out here guys) and to us we look at them as a group. But the coaches up and down the organization see them a ton, and see them as very different pitchers, and at any given time have them ranked pretty high and low in relation to each other. So if we traded two of them as part of a package for McCutch, we might be trading the “bottom two” of the bunch, and none of us would appreciate that fact.
So I absolutely do not rule out including two of our young arms as part of a deal.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:30 pm
I smell a blockbuster brewing!
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
7:34 pm
It would be a huge mistake to cater to sentimental Braves fans…just because they have an insatiable need to feel good about and stay attached to their favorite players.
Our GM really doesn’t wanna antagonize me…
old man
November 30th, 2011
7:39 pm
JoeBrave:
And how does it smell?
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:40 pm
McFat? Trade? Where do I sign up for that??? J/K McFann
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:41 pm
Smells like the McCutcheon smokescreen might be workin there old man, Maybe McCann to the Angels? I don’t know but one of thirty teams will bust one off…
old man
November 30th, 2011
7:44 pm
Well it will take at least two of the thirty teams, right?
Will we be one of the two?
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:46 pm
old man, on a blockbuster? I doubt it. but who knows? Wren has been known to pull one outta his rump a time or two! He has fleeced so many other GM’s he may have a hard time dealing.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:47 pm
only one is needed say… if the Cubs sign Pujols, now there is a blockbuster without another team.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
7:49 pm
JoeBrave—
Yeah, you’re kidding alright!!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:49 pm
at the moment there are ony 2 GM’s running around like their hair is on fire, DiPoto, and that moron in Florida!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:51 pm
Had to rib ya a lil bit McFann!, I really don’t want McCann traded, but it may happen, and sooner than we think. that would be hard to take.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:52 pm
I will spout a loogy name that is available, Wren should take a close look at Renyel Pinto!
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
7:53 pm
JoeBrave—
Yeah, it would…I’d like to think FW wouldn’t do it, but I guess ya never know…
Pcola Brave
November 30th, 2011
7:56 pm
Efrim
Did you say earlier the Braves made a proposal for McCutchen?
richbrave
November 30th, 2011
7:57 pm
McFANN:
What’s your take on McCANN being traded over an extension?
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
7:58 pm
hmmmm….
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:02 pm
richbrave—
Wait…seriously?
Well…I try not to use that kind of language…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:03 pm
McCann, would look spiffy in Pinstripes tho’
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:04 pm
or Boston grey. or Dodger Blue!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:06 pm
blood pressure up yet McFann?
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:08 pm
Mac WOULD NOT look good in Dodger Blue. Although I could offer to show him around town…suggest a nice little beach town to live in…a few good restaurants…
Bill M.
November 30th, 2011
8:12 pm
What if in two years, Bethancourt is ready for the big show ?? Would you keep him or pay McCann 15 Mil ? Any good business person would take Bethancourt. He will not be traded anytime soon. To be fair to McCann, the pitcher’s are the problem when he’s trying to throw out a runner. I believe the Braves staff is the worst holding runners.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:12 pm
BMac would look awful in any uni other than a Braves uni.
JoeBrave—
Not unless this were to get really serious…
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:14 pm
Bill M. Any good business person would take Bethancourt.
Well, that kills any thoughts I would have ever had about starting my own business…
Jerry
November 30th, 2011
8:22 pm
My personal opinion is not a popular one, but if I were the Braves, I would take the option on McCann in 2013 and after the season is over I would say bye bye to him and go with Bethancourt. That is unless Bethancourt becomes major league ready before that. McCann breaking down late in the season is getting old and his defense got old long ago. Of course, if the Mayans were right about the end of 2012, it’s not gonna matter, will it?
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:28 pm
The Maya calendar ends at 2012. They never said the world was going to end.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:29 pm
jeffrey d They never said the world was going to end.
If BMac is kicked out, it might…
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:30 pm
He won’t be “kicked” out. If A-Gon got a standing ovation, McCann would get a freaking parade
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:32 pm
I love that so many people on the blog seem to know better about Mac’s defense than the baseball people that rank him so highly. Also, that they are willing to put their trust at the most difficult position in baseball in the hands of someone that has not played above High A ball yet.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:34 pm
jeffrey d—
That’s true…although I meant the GM would be kicking him out—the players might light some candles like the Pirates did for McLouth…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:34 pm
go cab go!!! getem! I am just foolin with mcFann about Mac, I sure don’t want him gone, I shudder to think what anemic offense this Team would have without him!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:35 pm
McFann, I just can’t picture Hoss, and Uggla lighting candles.. hmmm… NAH!
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:36 pm
JoeBrave-
I know you just like to stir things up a bit
But just to warn you…McFann’s wrath is not something you want to become a target of…
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:36 pm
Well you have to understand where it’s coming from. McCann has given up a ton of SB
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:37 pm
Which, of course, is all his fault…
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:37 pm
the players might light some candles like the Pirates did for McLouth…
At least take him to a buffet
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:37 pm
cabravesfan—
I know, right?? Sheesh…
Funny how it goes in these 2-year cycles—Saltaliforgethowtospellit in 2007, Flowers in 2009 (right?), and now Bethancourt…2013 might be really scary…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:37 pm
BTW, today is the 80th birthday of the legendary Coach Bill Walsh…changed the way the game was played…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:38 pm
lol, cab, McFann is cool, besides Mac can’t go, He and I have something in common, we have an angel in Heaven.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:39 pm
JoeBrave I just can’t picture Hoss, and Uggla lighting candles..
Oh, I cann…
cabravesfan McFann’s wrath is not something you want to become a target of…
True that…
jeffrey d At least take him to a buffet
Of course…one for the road…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:39 pm
52 of those stolen bases rest squarely on the shoulders of one Tommy Hanson, that boy couldn’t hold a cow by the damn horns if it was sedated!
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
8:39 pm
I threw the numbers out earlier. McCann threw out around 30% of baserunners when Lowe and Hanson were on the mound. With them he threw out aroun 10-11%.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:39 pm
He’s still got some responsibility.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:40 pm
Hey now, I am pulling to keep Mac,why the devil horns at me.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:40 pm
jeffrey d—
You want to fight??…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:41 pm
You want to fight??…
I got $20 on McFann
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:41 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I love McCann and he’s one of my favorite Braves. But you can’t ignore the number of guys that have stolen on his watch. And it’s been like this for years.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:42 pm
JoeBrave—
Oh, the devil horns weren’t directed at you!…They were just symbolic of my wrath…
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
8:42 pm
The Rockies remain hopeful of obtaining Martin Prado from the Braves, Troy Renck of the Denver Post writes.
The Rockies have offered Seth Smith to the Braves, but they don’t have interest in packaging him with Tim Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon.
Give me a break. Seth Smith straight up for Prado is ridiculous. Guess they better look into Kelly Johnson because Smith ain’t going to get it done. Better package someone with him.
garynpOH
November 30th, 2011
8:42 pm
there is so much discussion about the new outfielder we may get, but iti should not be forgotten that it is crucial we have a strong middle relief corp. the season is just too long to have Venters and Kimbrel go out and pitch 2 innings. FG rode them into the ground and it showed at the end of the season.
yes we need offense and it is to exciting to anticipate the possibilities, hopefully a more potent offense will limit the one run games and overuse of our most valued asset.
but i am concerned.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:43 pm
jeffery d, when he is not given one ounce of a chance how is it his responsibility? Hanson..err OOOMBOP should learn how to hold runners on! that is 65% of the battle. and that goofy slow delivery to the plate leaves a lot to be desired as well, anyone needs to go it’s Hanson! Keep JJ, and Trade the Red Headed Strangler!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:44 pm
reeeowwww catfight! LOL!
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
But you can’t ignore the number of guys that have stolen on his watch. And it’s been like this for years.
And you can’t ignore how bad our pitchers have always been at holding runners on. They have been for years…
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
Over the past 5 years, McCann has been at, or near the bottom of the pack in the Majors in CSB. How is it that the Braves always end up with pitchers with a slow delivery or who don’t hold runners?
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:45 pm
cabravesfan—
In these times, 20 bucks is a big deal! I’ll take it…
jeffrey d And it’s been like this for years.
Nobody’s perfect…he makes up for it in other areas—haters’ hate be danged, he really improved in blocking pitches this year…and he calls a good game.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:47 pm
garyP, I wouldn’t worry too much about overuse of the pen this year, Medlin,Varvarro,Martinez,Wren(Renyel Pinto please), O Flaherty, Venters, Kimbrell, Vizcaino. should be sufficient!
on the other hand, Starting pitching is a bit over-rated here, JJ, Hanson, need to stay healthy, and go deeper, Beachy needs to finish the 6th and go 7, and Minor needs to go away as quickly as possible!
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
8:47 pm
jeffrey-
It’s not just being slow to the plate- control, sinker balls, not looking runners back, all that affects base stealing. And there is much more to catcher’s defense than stolen bases…
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:47 pm
jeffrey d Over the past 5 years, McCann has been at, or near the bottom of the pack in the Majors in CSB.
Actually, he led the NL in runners caught in 2010 (31).
How is it that the Braves always end up with pitchers with a slow delivery or who don’t hold runners?
Dunno…maybe it cann be traced to McDowell…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:49 pm
Hanson should be renamed Moses Methuselah Molasses!
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:49 pm
In 2009 and 2008, he was 3rd in the NL in runners caught…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:50 pm
Hey now McFann, there ya go backdatin again…lmbo
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:51 pm
McDowell, is a pretty good PC, but even he can’t teach BRAINS!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:52 pm
Still peeved at Leo, for ruining Steve Avery’s arm.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
8:52 pm
JoeBrave there ya go backdatin again
Yeah, one of my worst faults…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:53 pm
I can tolerate the stolen base from time to time, but another anemic bat will make me an Astros fan!
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
8:55 pm
I was cutting a rug
Down at a place called Jug
With a girl named Linda Lu
When in walked a man
With a gun in his hand
And he was looking for you know who
He said, “Hey fat fellow
With the hair colored yellow
Watcha tryin’ to prove?
‘Cause that’s my woman there
And I’m a man who cares
And this might be all for you”
I said, “Excuse”
I was scared and fearing for my life
I was shakin’ like a leaf on a tree
‘Cause he was lean, mean
Big and bad, Lord
Pointin’ that gun at me
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
8:57 pm
Apples to Apples…same pitchers since 2009
McCann – .252% CS
Ross – .376% CS
ncgary
November 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
i agree lets get beltran, shoot i will even pitch in a few bucks
MiaBchBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
For all of you McCutcheon fans, I have one question:
Who will drive him in?
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
I guess it someone else’s turn to hatorade tonite, But McCann? really? I don’t see it. 6 time All-Star,Silver Slugger multiple times, no gold glove yet but wow! I tell ya jeffery d, if you think Mac is bad, just wait til you see the Rook!
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:01 pm
Hey, I never claimed BMac had Ross’ arm—that’s Ross’ specialty…a lot of players have those. BMac’s is offense, calling a game…besides, BMac catches for Hanson a lot more than Ross does…
And BMac’s throwing went downhill after he got hurt…throwing’s even what hurt him…
Apples to Apples
Fun game, BTW…
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
9:02 pm
I’m just saying…you have to understand where people not happy with McCann’s defense are coming from. Granted they’ll exaggurate, but his 104 CSB last year (in 118 games started) was pretty bad.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:02 pm
jeffrey doesn’t think BMac is bad, he’s just being picky tonight…
MiaBchBravesFan
November 30th, 2011
9:03 pm
I am sure Beltran is going to want three years minimum. Do we want to pay for that stretch of time?
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:03 pm
jeffrey-
again- there is much more to catcher’s defense than stolen bases. And the baseball people rank him pretty high. So maybe he’s not as bad as some people want him to be.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:03 pm
OK! It was bad!! Happy now?? Gyah…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:04 pm
He’s still mad about the ketchup…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
9:04 pm
MiaBch, didn’t you hear? Pastornicky the Great, and Constanza will get a ton of RBI with McCutcheon n the LO spot, dang I thought everyone knew that. and let’s not forget, Terdyslabitch, and Mycal Jones, and well get the picture here.
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
9:04 pm
again- there is much more to catcher’s defense than stolen bases
I’m not saying there isn’t! I’m just saying that one area of his defense is bad, and I can understand where those people are coming from. That was the argument.
benchwarmer
November 30th, 2011
9:05 pm
I can’t believe that there are still some who think bringing back Andru Jones is a good idea. No never in a thousand years. The guy has no legs left and was always a project that never lived up to expectations. Besides I can’t stand his stupid smile!
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
9:06 pm
jeffrey doesn’t think BMac is bad, he’s just being picky tonight…
Devil’s advocate, if you will
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:07 pm
cabravesfan—
Uh-oh…what ketchup…?
ncgary
November 30th, 2011
9:07 pm
2 years would be nice, but you’re probably right
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:08 pm
McFann-
You’d know if you were on facebook
ncgary
November 30th, 2011
9:08 pm
and apples to apples is a fun game mcfann
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
9:09 pm
Devil’s advocate again
The guy has no legs left
He’d just be a backup
was always a project that never lived up to expectations
He was runner up in MVP and is 5th all time in Braves homeruns
Besides I can’t stand his stupid smile!
The world doesn’t need fewer smiles
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:09 pm
I’m hungry…guess I’ll pour some wine.
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
9:10 pm
Devil’s advocate needs to clean up his spelling and punctuation lest some drunk deem him a hypocrite…
There. Their? They’re?
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
jeffrey d—
There ya go…
cabravesfan—
Ah, nobody ever tells me nuthin around here…
ncgary—
Yeah—it cann get totally crazy at times, too!…
benchwarmer
November 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
If your hungry beer is better. More carbs.
Columbus
November 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
No brainer. McCann is signed to a long time contract as he and the fans deserve.
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
9:14 pm
This should be Andruw Jones entry music!!!
Hey man, them ain’t high heel sneakers,
And they sure don’t look like cowboy boots.
And that ain’t rock and roll you’re playin’
And it sure ain’t country or rhythm and blues.
You’re singing a song about making love to your drummer,
Well, FAT guitar pickers don’t turn me on.
And we don’t all get into Donna Summer,
Do you happen to know any old Hank Williams songs?
‘Cause you see I’m a dinosaur,
I should have died out a long time before.
Have pity on a dinosaur.
Hand me my hat.
Excuse me man, but where’s the door?
It used to be I had a lot of fun in this old hang-out.
We’d get stoned at the jukebox and stay out of fights.
Now and then, we’d light a little smoke in the truck out back,
Then a little old Jim Beam and we’d get right.
And you know these flashing lights sure make me dizzy
And this disco’s very strange to my ears.
It looks like they’ve turned the Longhorn into a spaceship,
And I’ll be leaving just as soon as I finish this beer.
‘Cause you see I’m a dinosaur,
Should have died out a long time before.
There’s a whole lot of dinosaurs,
So give us our hats.
Excuse me man, but where’s the door?
Get us our hats.
Excuse me man, but where’s the door?
jeffrey d
November 30th, 2011
9:14 pm
What was wrong with my spelling and punctuation?
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:14 pm
“How many shots of ketchup do you get? I usually get three, but if I’ve had a bad day, I’ll get five…”
Bama Brave
November 30th, 2011
9:15 pm
I think All this MacCan talk is A Smoke Screen? Who Agrees?
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:15 pm
benchwarmer-
Got In-N-Out headed my way as soon as VJ gets off work…don’t need more carbs in my drink
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:16 pm
Not a ketchup fan…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
9:16 pm
No Mustard ….BLECH!
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:17 pm
cabravesfan—
Weirdo…
Nah, too much is beyond gross, but I do like me some ketchup on certain things (apples and green beans no longer included)…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
9:17 pm
Mayonnaise is better! especially cracked peppercorn Mayo!
keyLargo
November 30th, 2011
9:17 pm
I simply think that McCann’s best year was 2008 and he will never approach it again. He’s declined, even though it’s not a tremendous amount. Just the stats and nothing more.
Top 5 tools for MLB players (1 to 5)
Running Speed (1) May be the slowest player in MLB
Arm Strength (2) Inaccurate in addition to slightly below average in strength How many throws went into CF?
Hitting for Average (3) .273 the last 3 years; career 282
Hitting for Power (3) 22 average the last 3 years; career high 24.
Fielding (2) Not quick enough to block curves in the dirt or to get out and field 10 to 15 foot bunts
2008 may have been his best year. He has declined every year since, not a tremendous ammount but still a decline.
Games – 2008 – 145 has played less every year since
PA – 2008 – 573 has played less every year since
AB – 2008 509 has had fewer every year since
Runs – 2008 68 has had less every year since
Hits – 2008 153 has had less every year since
2B – 2008 42 has had less every year since
3B – 2008/2009 tied had one a year in 08 and 09
HR – 24 2011/23 2008
RBI – 87 2008/94 2009
SO – 64 in 2008/ More in every other year
BA – 301 in 88/up to 32 points lower every year since
OBP – .373 in 08/ .375 in 10 – other years lower
SLG – .523 in 08/lower every year since including .453 in 10
OPS+ – 135 in 08/ Lower every year since including 119 in 2009
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
9:17 pm
You’re not a big fan of periods. And, exaggerate with a ‘u.’
Apologies for being an ass, but calling out others for grammar is like nails-on-a-chalkboard, to me. You might even call me a hypocrite for even bringing it up…
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:18 pm
JoeBrave—
Yes. Mustard is icky…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:18 pm
McFann-
Ummm, apples? Really??? That’s just…
JoeBrave
November 30th, 2011
9:18 pm
White Cheddar Popcorn, and Strawberry Ice Cream! the best!
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:19 pm
But you can’t ignore the number of guys that have stolen on his watch. Jeffrey
nothing wrong with 30%. nobody could throw out many with a couple of our pitchers
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:20 pm
keylargo career 282
.286, but who’s counting?…
Not quick enough to block curves in the dirt or to get out and field 10 to 15 foot bunts
What? BMac’s great at fielding bunts! You have to give him credit in that area at least…
May be the slowest player in MLB
I doubt it.
BB FAN
November 30th, 2011
9:21 pm
benchwarmer ,
As a platoon guy or 4th OFer, Andruw Jones is exactly what the Braves need and have needed for 3 years…He’s a righty who kills lefty pitching, he can play the corner OF spots and even center if needed, he’s inexpensive. I watched a lot of Yankee games this past year and his defense at a corner OF is above average. Now, he likely could only play 70-100 games, but that’s all a platoon player/4th OFer plays anyway.
As far as expectations go…who’s expectations are you talking about? Yours? Some experts? Is it really fair to say a 19 year old should hit 600 HRs over the next 20 years and be as good as Willie Mays? That’s the one thing I can’t stand about all the “experts” who predict players’ careers when they are 19 or 20. They make fans have all these expectations. And besides, I mean Andruw Jones has hit 420 HRs and driven in 1300 and won 10 GGs in centerfield (a premium defensive position) and is almost always considered as good defensively as Mays. I would say he has had a great career. If the Braves get that from Heyward, I would be thrilled.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:21 pm
cabravesfan—
This was a long time ago!!…
But I cann still taste it…and the green beans…BLEGTH!!!
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:23 pm
McFann-
Green beans with a little garlic and bacon. Everything is better with bacon!
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
9:23 pm
nolie,
You remember where to find those blocked-ball stats from a while back? That was you, right?
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:23 pm
too bad that damn Baseball America has no idea how to judge defensive play. They obviously need to hire some of the blog “experts”……
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:25 pm
I think someone else found the blocked ball stats, BAS
Bay Area Steve
November 30th, 2011
9:26 pm
Andruw Jones might be my favorite Brave. But, dude went .700/.500 back to back for $30 million. Let’s not act like folks don’t have a reason to hold a grudge.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:27 pm
cabravesfan—
KFC has the greatest green beans in the Universe…
Everything is better with bacon!
Well, I might could come up with a few things that wouldn’t be…
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:29 pm
even sex is better with bacon………..
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:30 pm
McFann-
What could possibly not be made better with bacon?
Ben
November 30th, 2011
9:30 pm
Hello Braves fans. Looks like the Braves and Pirates are in some serious talks according to a friend who writes columns for a sports paper in Pittsburgh. He is also close to a few big wigs in the Pirates organization. What names are being discussed is something he doesn’t know for certain, but he did say their young outfielder Mccutchen is being dangled, it would however have to be for a substantial return. He also tossed the name Teheran of Atlanta around as a potential target. Hope I spelled the kids name correctly. We both believe this is very possible as both teams are in need for what the other is in plenty of supply of.
You all have a great night and I will come back if I find out any more news.
keyLargo
November 30th, 2011
9:31 pm
OK, McFann. Give me a list and I’ll get out the SunDial.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:34 pm
cabravesfan—
Ice cream, cookies, Chicken Pot Pie…
keylargo—
…A list of what…?
uga-brave
November 30th, 2011
9:34 pm
just had antico pizza for the second time. hands down the best pizza in atlanta.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:34 pm
wouldn’t McCutchen just tank it too in a more pressurized situation just like ol’ whatshisname did?
Jb
November 30th, 2011
9:37 pm
I love McCann but…If Wren could get a return value that would put us in the WS I all for it..This is a business. I sure wouldn’t give him a 5 yr 100 million deal. Three years at most.
BB FAN
November 30th, 2011
9:38 pm
So because the Dodgers paid him and outrageous amount of money when even I could tell he was headed down hill (and obviously the braves could tell too), we should have a grudge against him?. Why? Maybe the Dodgers owner and GM.
I mean after 11 years of crashing into walls, diving for balls, a person’s body is going to break down. It happened to Griffey too. In fact at about the same age (30). Griffey hit 30 HRs or more only twice after age 30. He did hang on to finish with 600 HRs. Griffey was a better hitter but it wouldn’t surprise me to see Andruw Jones reach 500 HRs. He said he wants to play 5 more years. But my point is he has had an unbelievable career. 400 HRs and 10 GGs in centerfield. I can only think of two others to do that…Mays and Griffey. That’s some pretty damn good company. I may be forgetting somebody but you get the idea.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:39 pm
Jb I love McCann but…
Oh gosh, no! He’s gonna turn it on again!!…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:40 pm
McFann-
It would be fine in ice cream and chicken pot pie! and they make bacon cupcakes, why not bacon cookies??
Jb-
There is not a player that would guarantee a trip to the world series and losing Mac’s bat would be hard to replace. It is a business. And the best business move right now is to keep and lock him up in a new deal
Gone Viral
November 30th, 2011
9:40 pm
The thought I have is that all this discussion with the Rockies may be leading to a Dexter Fowler/Martin Prado trade. If it does, we probably try to get back prospects by flipping Bourn. Fowler is a Super 2 but Bourn is looking at a lot more money in arbitration. That would be an interesting (and surprising) way to get more capital freed up.
Alternately, the idea of Dexter Fowler, Jason Heyward and Michael Bourn in the same outfield would be the stuff of myth and legend on defense. I don’t think getting Fowler and keeping Bourn makes as much sense, though.
As for the McCutchen rumor, I looooove him as a player, but I wouldn’t pay that rumored price tag for Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun.
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
9:41 pm
cabravesfan re the bacon—
To each her own…
I LOVE Chicken Pot Pie as it is…
Jb
November 30th, 2011
9:42 pm
to each is own…Ben ..lol!
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
9:42 pm
McFann-
I love chicken pot pie too. But that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be even better with BACON!
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:44 pm
they pretty much swear that Fowler is not available GV
keyLargo
November 30th, 2011
9:46 pm
McFann – a list of potential people who are slower than McCann. And Bobby Dews can’t be on the list. He already outran McCann last spring training.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:49 pm
Freeman is slower than Mac
Gone Viral
November 30th, 2011
9:50 pm
Nolie, that was what I thought as well, but today’s Denver Post article includes:
“The issue is whether the Braves would deal Prado without receiving a center fielder in return. Or will the Rockies blink and include the previously off-limits Dexter Fowler?” This is later followed by “General manager Dan O’Dowd has said repeatedly this winter he will not trade Fowler, who had a strong second half.”
I read from the “blink” part that Fowler is who the Braves want and the Rockies don’t want to do it but know that the other packages they’re offering are nowhere near enough. We’re negotiating through the media.
Kat
November 30th, 2011
9:50 pm
How dare my crazy work week get in the way of me catching up on my news…It’s been some days since I’ve caught up on the DOB blog and just noticed a new blog entry, cool.
Great tune choice David.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:51 pm
my 93 YO mother is slower than Mac….but not by much
nolie
November 30th, 2011
9:56 pm
I’m not all THAT sold on Fowler anyway he hasn’t hit 800 yet even with half his games in Coors and has a career 95 OPS+. Not sure he will be all that much better than Bourn of whom I am also not all that great a fan of, though he would be under contract three years I guess.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:00 pm
my how the offenses have wound down around baseball when an OPS of 796 is a 105 OPS+ in a Rox player
McFann O O o
November 30th, 2011
10:02 pm
cabravesfan—
Well, you’re entitled to your own taste…I shouldn’t pick on you, though, as I did USED to put ketchup on apples and fresh green beans…
keylargo—
Benjie Molina…Livan Hernandez…don’t think Johnny Estrada was very speedy…
But I really don’t like to pick on people for things they can’t help…
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:04 pm
Estrada was molasses in the arctic
Gone Viral
November 30th, 2011
10:08 pm
I love Fowler’s career OBP although I know there is a 50 home/road split. His career OBP is almost identical to Bourn’s and he’d come a lot cheaper. Plus, we’d get the prospects and the money for Bourn if he isn’t interested in a contract extension. I’m not saying he will be better than Bourn in isolation, but I understand why the totality of the move makes a lot of sense, depending on what we can get to replace Martin Prado, a valuable asset to a team.
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:08 pm
I would offer Mac 5 years for 80 mil after this season. Lowe and probably Chipper will be off the books and you dont find a hitter like Mac at the catcher position every day. I also feel he does not get the credit he deserves calling games. This guy is the Braves best all around player AND he is a catcher. Lock him up.
I think Prado is going to get moved to Colorado soon. To much smoke. He is worth alot more to the Rockies as a second baseman than he is to the Braves as a LF. Going to be some serious whinning on the blog when he goes .310 20 hr and 85 RBI in the thin air of Denver. The Braves have to get Fowler for him.
The guy I want at SS is Jed Lowrie. Average at best defender but he could go .280 12 HR and 75 RBI in Atlanta. Lots of doubles and does not strike out much. If Pastrinicky does well you can move Lowrie to a super utility role.
I hope Frank holds onto his pitching. Jurrjens is selling low right now. If he wins 6 games by the end of May you can name your price for him. The bullpen is loaded with a full year of Vizcaino and Medlin in it. No burn out this year. Medlin will be worth his weight in gold this year.
Go Bravos.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:12 pm
The guy I want at SS is Jed Lowrie. Average at best defender but he could go .280 12 HR and 75 RBI in Atlanta
Lowrie had a TERRIBLE year, and his career OPS+ sukks
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:17 pm
I’m not sold on Fowler at all. I don’t know that he will hit well enough to be a leadoff and his SB/CS ratio isn’t very good. Hes definitely a work in progress. Another worrisome factor is hes been a starter the last 3 years and hasn’t played more than 135 gms yet.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:18 pm
Speaking of fat asses … it’d help Prince’s image a little if somebody would tape his ti** down before games so one doesn’t flop up when he’s running and give him a concussion.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:24 pm
according to guys I know out there The Rox have had an on-again off-again love/hate relation with Fowler. Guy has good upside but has not lived up to expectations except for the second half of last season which has them up on him again, even though he had a pretty crappy first half.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:24 pm
Yeah I wouldn’t doubt if Wren is asking for Fowler. Young, athletic, right handed, can play CF if Bourn leaves and he’s a GA boy.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:25 pm
Enter your comments here
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:28 pm
Fowler is a switchie Brian, though there had been talk that he should abandon it , I don’t think that he has
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:28 pm
nolie – Lowrie did have a crappy year but I think he is capable of giving you an OPS around .730 at SS. That is his career average. He also puts the ball in play which is why he drives in alot of runs per AB for a SS. Look at AGON. Now that guy has a career OPS OF .690. UGLY. How many times did he K with a man on third with less than two outs?
Lowrie wont cost much and is a huge upgrade over AGON as a hitter.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:28 pm
nolie, but Fowler is still so dang young. He’ll be 25 in March. There is plenty of time to grow and he could really reach his potential playing for his hometown team. Then again as we saw with Frenchy, the pressure could mount on him.
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:31 pm
Oh I didn’t know Dexter goes both ways like that.
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:31 pm
I like Fowler. He is still very young at 25 years old. Career .770 OPS. Great outfielder and power + speed potential.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:32 pm
only two players on the entire team drove in 75 plus runs last year and one of those was just 76. No way he comes over here and drives in anywhere near that many IMO.
His career totals are skewed by that exceptional 200 at bats he had a coupla years ago that he has never approached at any other time.
He would have to come cheap in a trade IMO
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:34 pm
glord
Lowrie has only played 256 gms in the majors and really only had one good year out of the 4. Lowrie has to prove he can stay healthy.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:34 pm
too big a ? mark IMO to trade Prado for him, but one never knows for shur
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
10:35 pm
No way we get McCutchen. He’s their young Chipper. I know they need to build up their system with good prospects for the future and whatnot, but he sells them tickets right now. I’m not real business smart at all, but trading him away sounds like bad business to me.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:35 pm
meaning Fowler. obviously we ain’t trading Prado for Lowrie
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:36 pm
I agree Lowrie is not a sure thing to be an above average SS but worse case senario he gives you 10 HRs 60 RBI and hits .260 range with 500 AB. I bet that is better than Pastranicky gives you next year. Also he would make a very good utility guy if you upgraded later. Solid 3B for when Chipper has aches and pains.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:38 pm
TnBrian
Yea I would be really suprised to see them move McCutchen. As many people were upset w/ Mclouth trade, McCutchen ended up being as advertised. Hes there stud and face of the franchise. As long as hes cheap I don’t see them moving him.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:39 pm
well I don’t hate the Lowrie idea as long as he was cheap. there are worse out there. One thing is that they would be tied to him for more years then they say that they want to
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:40 pm
If the Pirates trade McCutchen they are idiots. I would give them their choice of two top pitching prospects for the guy right now if they were dumb enough to do it.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:41 pm
you would think that the would wait till 2014 to start thinking of trading McCutchen
Joey B.
November 30th, 2011
10:41 pm
DOB
Are you getting the sense that the Braves will be very active in the eight days? If your life were to depend on it (thankfully it’s not :] ) would you say we’ll see a significant deal, finally, at the Winter Meetings next week from Wren? Thanks.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:42 pm
glord1
It may be more HR and RBI but Pastornicky has good speed. Having that at the bottom of the order wouldn’t be bad. I’m just not sold that Lowrie can stay on the field.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:42 pm
I would trade Minor and Delgado for him in a NY minute….
Larry30
November 30th, 2011
10:42 pm
As the season wears on, McCann looks worse and worse behind the plate. I’ve seen him miss balls that were 3 feet off the ground just off the plate, just flat miss them. And his throws to second are on average pitiful. For the guy who said trading someone when they are at maximum value just hurts the team by not having the player performing for the team at that point……………ask the rangers if they would undo the Texeira trade. No, they wouldn’t. And for those who think you can just throw someone out in left field with little or no consequence; you’ve obviously forgotten watching Garrett “hoveround” Anderson trotting around left field for the braves. Archive this: McCann will not finish his career as a catcher and will be a DH in the AL. We can wait until he heads that way as a free agent or trade him now and get what we need at other positions. If signed to a big extension there will be a time when people all over these blogs are calling for a trade when he stops performing but there will be no takers. He is not going to get any better.
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:43 pm
Im a huge McCutchen fan. If they traded him anywhere it would probably be Atlanta. The Pirates are in love with young power arms and that the Braves have plenty of at the moment.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
10:46 pm
Ramon Santiago is off the board…………… What am I going to do now that my fav player of all time is gone to the……………….. wait a minute, it’s Alex Gonzalez who is my favorite player.
Never mind.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:47 pm
I thought it was Frenchy who was your favorite player……
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:48 pm
PCola Brave – you are right about Lowrie always being hurt. I just think he has solid upside if he is healthy and I think the Sox would move him for a solid prospect. I think he is a good gamble considering whats out there for SS.
I think Pastornicky could be a very good player. I just think a guy like Lowrie could let the Braves not rush him, give some infield flexibily and come pretty cheap. Not much out there for SS.
nolie
November 30th, 2011
10:49 pm
Not much out there for SS.
got that right
glord1
November 30th, 2011
10:50 pm
Funny to see Frenchy is the same post as AGON. Two guys that never saw a slider in the dirt they didnt like.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
10:56 pm
glord
I’m not against Lowrie and if he got hurt later in the year I’m sure Pastornicky might be ready or Jack Wilson (if signed as the UT infielder) could take over. I think Lowrie probably provides the best bat or at least the highest chance of putting up good numbers. Personally I like Maicer Izturis of the Angels but its a crapshoot at this point.
Dave O'Brien
November 30th, 2011
10:58 pm
@Joey B What are these Winter Meetings you speak of? I’m sleepy.
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:03 pm
Fake DOB…nice
nolie
November 30th, 2011
11:04 pm
I thought maybe the gray just faded out cab…………
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:04 pm
In-N-Out is soooo tasty
(also? SOA was fantastic. I am sad next week is the season finale)
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:05 pm
nolie-
it’s just your old eyes- can’t see it anymore
nolie
November 30th, 2011
11:06 pm
watched GRIMM yet?
BOSS is pretty good. good, and different- role for Kelsey Grammer
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:07 pm
cab
I love SOA. Its going to be very interesting heading into next week. Seems like they’ve opened up several storylines and we will have to wait until next September for them all to play out. Great show.
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:08 pm
nolie-
GRIMM is in regular rotation, although as far as the fairy tale theme stories go, I may prefer Once Upon A Time- although I do love the sci-fi aspect of GRIMM
Have not been able to get into Boss yet- watched the first 2 episodes…VJ likes it, but he is much more of a political junkie than I am so it’s right in his wheelhouse…
DS1
November 30th, 2011
11:09 pm
I too love “Share of Account”
when you folks do that SOA thingy, it reminds me of a program for my customers………..
nolie
November 30th, 2011
11:09 pm
I kinda like REVENGE ok too
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:11 pm
P’cola Brave-
In my humble opinion, it is the best show on TV- from the writing to the acting to the storylines and the character development and the use of great songs in the exact right situation, everything is nearly perfect. Somehow they manage to make the most unlikable of characters sympathetic. I will be sad the day it ends…which I fear is not that far off…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:13 pm
nolie-
Revenge has developed into one of our favorite shows. It is one of those that gets better every week- even though you already know what happens down the line, it makes no difference (and I keep forgetting that we have seen it- the mark of good writers)- you just hang on every little scheme and plot…
OklahomaBrave
November 30th, 2011
11:15 pm
This will never happen and I’ll probably get killed for it but what about prado and Teheran for smith, wheeler and arenado. We lose Julio but gain chippers heir apparent in arenado.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:17 pm
cab
I feel that the series could be coming to an end soon as well. The storyline could wrap up in the next season or two if they don’t kill of everyone before then. I’m usually shocked when they kill off a character because I would have never thought it was his time to go.
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:17 pm
OklahomaBrave-
If I remember correctly, the prospect Simmons (can’t remember his first name) is penciled in as the future at 3rd base…doesn’t make sense to trade our top pitching prospect for a position we may not need… (someone correct me if I am wrong about Simmons)
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:18 pm
OklahomaBrave
Teheran and Seth Smith shouldn’t be mentioned in the same trade ever.
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:18 pm
wait I missed an opportunity for in and out discussion with cab…dammit
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:19 pm
cab
Simmons is the top rated defensive SS in the system. They have moved Salcedo and Terdoslavich over to 3rd.
glord1
November 30th, 2011
11:19 pm
Simmons is projected to be a stud defensive SS. It is Salcedo that is now being projected at 3B.
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:19 pm
cab – is it andrelton or something like that?
nolie
November 30th, 2011
11:20 pm
I think DEATH IN PARADISE is promising too
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:20 pm
P’cola Brave-
I get the feeling the only character that is untouchable is Jax, but that might not even be right. But it’s definitely the type of story that has to have an end, and soon. You just can’t go on forever with the same intensity and passion with different people. I am thinking we have only one or two more years, at the most, and the show goes out still brilliant and still as powerful as it is now
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:21 pm
glord1-
Damn- you’re right. Forgot about him. Thanks. Point remains the same
tiger-
Something like that- too lazy to look it up
brian
November 30th, 2011
11:21 pm
agreed P’cola. Maybe Redmond and Seth Smith or Chuck James and Seth Smith…..
Teheran will not be traded this offseason.
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:22 pm
Also thanks P’cola Brave
tiger-
always ready for an In-N-Out discussion
brian
November 30th, 2011
11:23 pm
let me rephrase – Teheran will not be traded this offseason unless someone with a name like Mike Trout is mentioned in the same trade
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:24 pm
Teheran will not be traded this offseason unless someone with a name like Mike Trout is mentioned in the same trade
And the Angels feel about Trout pretty much the same way the Braves feel about Teheran. So chances of that happening are about -100%
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:26 pm
my airplane is in for its annual inspection so no flying for me for a bit…commercial is faster & cheaper neway
brian
November 30th, 2011
11:26 pm
exactly cabravesfan. My point exactly
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:26 pm
tiger-
You show up, I will have a Double Double waiting for you
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:27 pm
having never eaten there I’m not sure if that is a promise or a threat..but either way I’ll bet I can handle it
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:27 pm
Teheran isn’t going anywhere. Hes as untouchable as they come. It would have to be a significant return for him to be involved and I don’t think we are pursuing any trades like that.
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:27 pm
tiger-
trust me, it’s a promise
OklahomaBrave
November 30th, 2011
11:29 pm
Nolan arenado is on the same level as Teheran as far as prospects are concerned. I could care less if we got smith but it seems that he would be part of the deal. You’ve got to give to get and it seems like we could use some offensive production once these pitching prospects mature.
P'cola Brave
November 30th, 2011
11:31 pm
Arenado is a top 3 prospect for the Rockies but has yet to accomplish what Teheran has and until hes done that than they aren’t on the same level.
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:33 pm
i just looked it up the closest one to me is 1121 miles… I also need to see the famous hot dog and donut places
OklahomaBrave
November 30th, 2011
11:34 pm
Trust me I know Teheran isn’t headed anywhere. Just throwing out fodder.
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:34 pm
OklahomaBrave-
But the point is, Arenado is the same age as Salcedo, who is projected to be our 3rd baseman of the future. So what would be the point of trading our top pitching prospect for a player that plays the same position as a prospect we already have?
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:35 pm
nolie, when Terdoslavich makes it to the bigs we need to go to the park dressed as turds. I’ll even make some giant corn kernels and super glue them on my turd suit. Sound like a plan?
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:37 pm
tiger-
the famous hot dog and donut places? Should I know what you mean?
(by the way, the closest In-N-Out to us is 1.68 miles
there is also one 2.18, 2.33, and 4.36 miles away…there are 8 within 9 miles of our place)
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:39 pm
… we need to go to the park dressed as turds
Did y’all hear about the woman who sued her ex because he found out she cheated on him and instead of just breaking up with her, tattooed a giant pile of…turds…on her back, with buzzing flies around the pile? (Obviously he is a tattoo artist and was supposed to do a scene from the Narnia movies…)
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:40 pm
cab will go with me dressed as a turd. I kow she will. She has that wild side
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:44 pm
cab – did you see the news today that the photo was originally posted on the internet 18 months ago and someone just made the story up a few days ago?
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:45 pm
tiger-
no- someone had posted the link to the story on facebook. Too bad- it was kinda awesome
TnBrian
November 30th, 2011
11:46 pm
Wow cab, I’d say he shi* on back when she wasn’t looking.
Ok, that was dumb. Funny story though. Good idea actually.
OklahomaBrave
November 30th, 2011
11:48 pm
I’d say arenado is a more highly regarded prospect than salcedo. Afl MVP over such names as trout and wil Meyers. Projects as a .300 20-25 100 ribs w power to grow.
Like I said it was fodder and I probably wouldn’t do it either but we have so much pitching depth and I doubt the Rockies would take Delgado or vizcaino.
DS1
November 30th, 2011
11:49 pm
cab
Now THAT would be funny. Unless you were the lady.
Never been a big fan of In N Out myself. More of a Smash Burger guy myself. Or just the local burger joints.
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:49 pm
yeah I thought it was awesome as well…who knows maybe the one I saw today saying it was a hoax was the real hoax…its the internet not much you can trust except that everyone on the blog is 100% honest…right??
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:50 pm
ds1 – ok now that u r here I can start talking about my crown burger craving…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:50 pm
Hard to project how good a kid will be when he is 19-20 and has not played above A ball…just not a move that has much upside at the moment. Not worth Teheran.
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:53 pm
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/poop-tattoo-story-is-crap-8764319
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:53 pm
OklahomaBrave-
also shows how sketchy rating prospects that young are…Trout hit .338/.414/.958 in the minors and was in the major leagues by age 19. Arenado has yet to play above high A ball.
tiger297
November 30th, 2011
11:53 pm
when its sleepy time down south…
cabravesfan
November 30th, 2011
11:55 pm
Night tiger!
OklahomaBrave
December 1st, 2011
12:03 am
Arenado will be in the bigs this year from every report I’ve read. That being said you’ve talked me off the ledge. I’m just sick of watching this futile lineup every year. Our pitching is going to be great for years I’m just thinking of ways to get those guys some runs.
Enjoyed the conversation with you guys. Gonna try and make it on more often.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
12:04 am
tiger
Need lots of “fry sauce” for that Crown Burger. That sucker is a diet killer though……
later……….
cabravesfan
December 1st, 2011
12:06 am
OklahomaBrave-
Just going by where Arenado has played, if he makes it to the bigs this season it will be quite a jump. He’s still very young and probably needs a lot more seasoning before he has success in the majors. Even Trout, as good as he is, struggled in his debut- hit .220/.281/.672 in 40 big league games this year with the Angels. So stay off that ledge for now- the Braves will be better with Teheran than they will be with Arenado right now
N8
December 1st, 2011
12:31 am
“And there is much more to catcher’s defense than stolen bases…” cab
Uhh…. throwing out base runners might be his best defensive trait. So if you were trying to make a point backing his defense up, I think you failed.
Mac is the best hitting catcher in baseball. He is NOT however one of the best hitters in baseball. Not while he is expected to catch 120 games. If he were to be a DH? I bet he’d be one of the best hitters in baseball.
Now, in being fair to Mac and to your point cab, I do consider “calling the game” part of defense, and it’s hard to find fault considering the pitchers in Atlanta have been pretty good under his “watch”. So he’s got that going for him.
But there comes a point where you ask yourself the question as a GM. Where on the field would your prefer your offense to come from?
Would you rather have a 800 OPS guy in LF that plays in 150+ games and has marginal defense? Or would you rather have guy that hits is an .800 OPS guy behind the plate and can only start 120 or so games (leaving 40 games to your backup), and leaving a gaping hole in the middle of your order in 1/4 of your games? Especially if you can find a catcher that plays great defense and might hit a little bit along the way?
All things, including “fan favorite” talk, to the side. I think the team would be better off with that offensive production coming from LF. But that being said, it would have to be one helluva impact player to part ways with Mac.
Obviously in a perfect world, you keep Mac AND add a big bat in LF. But the Braves current state says that isn’t really possible.
Ultimately the be all – end all fix for this problem is simply Heyward becoming the guy the world thought he would become. That would pretty much solve it all.
BravesfaninWis
December 1st, 2011
12:47 am
Still no news on the Braves, not even a whisper. The only thing we continue to hear is that the Rockies are very interested in Prado. So lets trade fan favorite’s away while we have glaring needs. The Braves had one of the biggest, if not the biggest collapses in Sept of all time, and all we hear about is that the Braves could trade Prado and Jurrgens away and get almost nothing in return for them. So far the only thing I am seeing is that the Rockies offered Seth Smith for Prado but won’t include any of their top prospects in the deal.
All I know is that if the Braves don’t make a huge signing to push this team over the hump, next year will be a bust. I for one will not spend a single dollar on this team until they do something big. I am sick and tired of going after second rate players (Linestink, Sherill, Wilson, etc, etc) and hoping like hell it works out, which it hasn’t.
All the while, we are hearing all the other teams in our division being linked to most of the high profile free agents, and all we are hearing is the possible trades of Prado, Jurrgens, and whether or not if the Braves should sign McCann long term even though he is under team control for 2 more seasons. Worry more about what you f’n need instead of what you already control. This team is so f’n backwards its unreal. Then they wonder why they are always looking up at the other teams, and why they have a hard time selling out games. Fans get sick of the same old crap, and that is all these Braves have delivered for the past 5 seasons now. They have a cheap ownership group, get handcuffed by high priced, aging players like Chipper and Lowe, and try to piece together a team and pray like hell they will contend. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am getting tired of this lame arse routine. I am not a fan that just says, oh well, there is always next year, I am expecting great things from my teams year after year. When they don’t produce, I voice my opinion. My opinion is that the Braves are underachievers, and they will be nothing next season.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2011
1:45 am
Was told tonight by someone I trust that the Braves sent scouts to see Cuban outfielder Yoennis Cespedes in the Dominican Republic during the past week, one of many teams that have done so or plan to soon.
Don’t know if the Braves were just doing due diligence or if they have strong interest in the 26-year-old Cespedes, who has at least a half-dozen teams in pursuit. As of now, I’d still be surprised if Braves got heavy into a bidding war. Speculation is that he could get a contract that easily surpasses the six-year, $30.25 million deal that fellow Cuban defector Cuban Aroldis Chapman got from the Reds.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
2:22 am
If the guy is truly 26 years old, why not offer him 40 million for 6 years and see if he bites.
But it’s easy for me to spend Liberty Media’s money too!
N8
When you have a hitter who is as good as Mac, even for 130 starting games per year, you keep him. Especially when he wants to be here and it exceptional in hitting.
I personally don’ t think Mac’s defense is half as bad as some of you folks think. There are a few really good catchers in the league (defensively), but most have their warts.
Helluva lot easier to take Mac’s defensive warts when he kills it offensively. Besides, there are no guarantee that the person you replace his offense with (LF?) is going to be as good.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
2:24 am
I realize that FW is talking about making some changes after the epic collapse of 2011; but if Prado comes back to his pre-injury form, it’ll be hard to replace his bat.
We truly need players who can get on base.
Next week is going to be interesting four shore.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
2:31 am
Talk about bad contract for an over the hill player, take a look at Orlando Hudson. 5.5 million next year with an 8 million dollar option for 2013, with a TWO million dollar buyout.
Ouch.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
2:32 am
Ok, Ok, I’m talking to myself again.
But the older I get, I really can’t remember why anyway……………
Ward
December 1st, 2011
2:44 am
Hello everyone! All I see is Rockies,and Tigers too interested in Prado. Everything else is quiet,as a mouse……….
Ward
December 1st, 2011
2:47 am
I’m seeing a Seth Smith deal,or Delmon Young deal,as of now.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
2:50 am
Paying 30 million for a Cuban player. He should stay in Cuba. After what happened with K.K., no on foreign players……..
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:00 am
“When you have a hitter who is as good as Mac, even for 130 starting games per year, you keep him. Especially when he wants to be here and it exceptional in hitting.”
Agree and disagree Wayne. In theory I agree with you. On the surface, I don’t agree that Mac is really THAT good.
He’s simply that good for being a catcher. Now, as I stated, I think the two go hand in hand. If he wasn’t a catcher, and was allowed to focus on hitting, not to mention not being beat to hell from playing catcher…. I think he’s “good enough” to be one of the best hitters in the game.
But his numbers aren’t that great until you compare him to other catchers. Most would say that despite the oblique injury, Mac’s numbers were exceptional, right?
.270/.351/.466/.817 with 24 HR and 71 RBI in 128 games. Certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Let’s break it down. All comparisons and rankings are based on all of MLB and with a minimum of 500 PA.
BA – .270: Ranks 72nd; Career .286 hitter. Career average would have ranked 48th.
OBP – .351: Ranks 52nd; Career .358 OBP. Career average would have ranked 39th.
SLG – .466: Ranks 55th; Career .486 SLG. Career average would have ranked 36th.
OPS – ..817: Ranks 50th; Career ..844 SLG. Career average would have ranked 35th.
His average and OPS have taken slight dips each of the last 4 years. Except for his average which was .269 in 2010 and .270 last year. Most of the “spike” from the career averages is from his 2nd season in 2006 when he batted .333, slugged .572 and had a .961 OPS.
His 24 HR tied his career high. His RBI totals have dipped each of the last 3 years.
His “162 game average” according to baseball-reference is 25 HR and 99 RBI. Which is awesome.
Unfortunately, his games played average is 129 in his 6 full seasons. So his “reasonable” season average is 19 HR and 79 RBI when pro-rated.
So while you say you think his defense is not as bad as some say. I say that his hitting (as long as he’s a catcher) is not as good as most think it is. It’s by nature of him being a catcher that makes his offense output so impressive.
In general he’s basically around the 40th to 50th most productive hitter in baseball. Again. Nothing to sneeze at. But just not sure he’s worth locking up for 5-6 years at 15-16 million per year.
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:03 am
Obviously Mac’s career “SLG” is not .866, but his career OPS is.
Also, his 129 game average in his full seasons is his STARTS. Not games played. He’s actually averaged closer to 139 games played when his PH duties are factored in.
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:10 am
Now before people go bashing me for bashing Mac (yeah, I’m talking to you McFann. LOL).
Of course I’d like to keep him. If this was a Ted Turner owned Braves team, you lock the guy up and go get him more help. I’m just not so sure with the money situation payroll wise this team is in, that Mac is the guy you center this offense around.
I actually think his defense will improve over the next few years. But I think the toll of catching will eventually wear on him and we can expect those numbers to drop a bit. And probably at a steady rate.
So ask yourself the question, if his numbers drop any more. Say for example in 2 or 3 years he’s a 17 HR, 65 RBI guy with a .750 OPS…. is that going to be worth 16 million a year? Is Chipper worth 14 million right now since the extention?
That’s what I’m basing this one. Which is why earlier today I posed the question? Why the hurry to lock him up until you see what his production does in 2012 and 2013, where he’s locked up for around 12 million each year (with the incentives kicking in in 2012)?
Why not wait until half way through the 2013 season to lock him up? By then we should know what to expect of him moving forward and what Bethancourt is likely to be.
Seems silly to be even remotely thinking about extending him this soon with a possible league minimum replacement in 2014.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
3:13 am
Sorry N8, but you WAY over think this stuff. I have lived 56 years just trying to keep things simple.
I just think if you have a very, very good hitting catcher, you keep him. If you can then improve all other positions, you have a good team.
Case in point. Let’s assume that Mac, Freeman, Uggla, Heyward, Bourn and Prado have a year close to their norms. And that when he is in the lineup, Chipper hits like he did this year. All we need to improve at that point is SS.
So, the SS market is weak (except for Rollins and Reyes). You have a prospect or two you think will be decent SS’s (or at least one of them).
So, now you really can’t make SS any better. You punt and try to get a corner outfielder that can hit, in case Prado or Heyward do NOT do well next year.
Absolutely NO need to even be concerned about catcher for 2 more years minimum.
Does that make sense?
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:14 am
The ONLY reason to lock him up now, imo. Would be to give him a backloaded contract that eliminates his 12 million dollar salary this year and next year (maybe giving him 8 or 9 million in 2012 and “making up for it later), thus allowing Wren to have another 3-4 million to play with this winter while waiting for Chipper to retire before Mac’s big money kicks in.
And that can be a dangerous path to go on. Because if that extension escalates in the last few seasons and his production really drops, we’re pretty much stuck with him. Unless an AL team thinks he could be a great DH and takes a chance on him.
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:15 am
Wayne, you’re right. I do overthink it. It’s the only thing that keeps the winter shorter. LOL
But I tell you what. I hope like hell that Frank Wren over thinks this stuff as much as I do.
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:19 am
“Absolutely NO need to even be concerned about catcher for 2 more years minimum.
Does that make sense?”
Absolutely Wayne. I hope you’re not confused to the point where you think I’m suggesting trading Mac. I’m not. I’m simply talking about NOT giving him an extention before that two years (through 2013) is up.
You’re right. NO reason to worry about it until then. Which is precisely my point. He’s already locked up through 2013 and a young kid who MIGHT be able to outperform him dollar for dollar in 2014 is on the way.
Again. No reason to extend him before his free agent year. If he really wants to stay in Atlanta that bad. He won’t be offended by the lack of an extention and will give the Braves the benefit of the doubt until his time comes, and then still sign on the dotted line if the Braves want him to after the 2013 season.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
3:19 am
I think it comes down to Loyalty for Mac,as Brave.Will Mac, play for less,or be greedy,and want more? I think Mac, is a good enough guy to play for less,but I hope Mac, will pick Loyalty,and stay a Brave.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
3:21 am
Why worry about Mac now? Let’s get that LF The Braves badly need.
N8
December 1st, 2011
3:26 am
Ward, I think he will. No real reason for him to want to play elsewhere.
The ONLY reason that Mac wouldn’t be a Brave after 2013 is because Bethancourt would be ready to replace him at the league minimum and the Braves feel his production would likely be similar or better.
If Tom Glavine can be “replaced” by Tommy Hanson, sure Brian McCann could be replaced by a young kid, couldn’t he?
I don’t think it’s going to come down to loyalty on the Braves part. It’s going to come down to doing what’s best for the team at that time.
If you look at what Javy Lopez did from 1996 – 2000, the offensive numbers are very similar to what Mac has done and they let him walk after a 43 HR season.
Now I admit, there might have been some “over the counter” (or “under” the table), help in Javy’s blood-stream at that time. But again. It just might not be a sound investment to lock up a catcher into his mid-30’s and expect the same level of production.
nolie
December 1st, 2011
3:27 am
Uhh…. throwing out base runners might be his best defensive trait. So if you were trying to make a point backing his defense up, I think you failed….N8
bullcrap.
Baseball America Best Defensive catcher—not that they could possibly be more knowledgeable than the board haters…..
2010-Molina, McCann, Olivo
2011 Molina, Ruiz, McCann
Ward
December 1st, 2011
3:33 am
N8- Until then Wren should focuse on a LF.I say let Bethancourt play until AAA. He puts up good numbers?Then start thinking about him. It’s still too early to even talk about Bethancourt. Injuries could happen? He could slow down with his power? Start striking out too much? Too early to even talk about Bethancourt……
nolie
December 1st, 2011
3:35 am
Gee. Baseball America Best Tool Edition which the spend months putting together OR local blog haters??
Hmmm. Tough choice, I’ll have to think about that for a …whole nanosecond
DS1
December 1st, 2011
3:39 am
N8
Yes, I do think Frank over thinks this stuff. But he also probably has a large white board with a gazillion directions he can go (or maybe they have them in a computer, so BC won’t come in and erase it all!).
But my guess as a prior manager is this: You plan for contingencies, but you also realize a lot of things tend to work themselves out.
It’s important for guys like him to over think these things, but to try not to over complicate the process.
Kinda like in my work. I am constantly determining my contingencies if my current distribution changes their direction.
Next week is going to be interesting to see what his first move will be.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
3:44 am
I’m just a little worried Wren, will be too evaluated,and do nothing again,but I’m being cool,and patient.Don’t like waiting again until The Winter Meetings…….
nolie
December 1st, 2011
3:44 am
idiots…………
Ward
December 1st, 2011
3:45 am
Pray Wren, will do something good with his first move………..
Ward
December 1st, 2011
3:50 am
nolie- Last report was Tigers,and Rockies interested in Prado…….
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
3:53 am
All right, what’s the matter here? What’s happened to these lovely children? Brother Dave Gardner
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
3:58 am
FALL BALL
AUSTRALIA
No games scheduled
DOMINICA
No games scheduled
PUERTO RICO
No games scheduled
VENEZUELA
No games scheduled
Bummer complete wipe-out man
nolie
December 1st, 2011
4:02 am
Smilin’ Frank is only gonna do one deal all winter. It is such a tiny, relatively meaningless deal that he is waiting a long time to make it, figgerin’ that y’all will be sooo starved for some hot stove action that you will overlook how weak in is in your excitement to finally see something happen, ward.
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:05 am
WARD:
I’m with you on this one Extend MAC or not after the current business at hand has been completed, namely who will be SS, what lift to the line-up can we get with a new LF’er, and can we find a replacement for CONRAD that improves the team.
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:08 am
nolie:
So you’re buying the evil genius routine where FRANK is concerned, huh? Or should i leave the genius part out of it? Heh!
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:10 am
nolie:
How you gettin’ on BTW? Taking good care I hope.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:13 am
richbrave- DeRosa was mentioned a couple of months ago,and was on Wrens list. Derosa would be better than Conrad……Anybody would be…….
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:15 am
I have this feeling you could see DeRosa a Brave,and Drew Sutton at SS.
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:16 am
CONNIE sure struggled last season. Nightmares from having to play in the field on a regular basis in 2010, or playing for a new manager, not sure which, maybe both.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:17 am
On LF, I wouldn’t mind Cody Ross,or Quentin,and sticking to it…….peace all,and talk this afternoon………..
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:20 am
WARD:
I liked MARK’s game when he was here the first time. I guess he’s an upgrade over BROOKS, haven’t followed his career much since he left. DREW SUTTON I know nothing about. I’ll have to look up his stats on Baseball Reference. Do you know of any video clips on his play in the field or at the plate?
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:22 am
DAMN WARD don’t go all the plants are gonna’ die, and nolie fell asleep at the keyboard.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:27 am
richbrave- I’m back for a few………Drew Sutton played for Boston,and was picked up a day,or so. He signed a minor league deal,and it’s possible that he could play 3rd,and SS later…….
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:29 am
To me it makes sense. DeRosa was hurt last year for the Giants,but I think he could be a good player when healthy. A way much better up-grade than Conrad.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:33 am
Now that Cody Ross is no longer a Giant. I think Wren should take a look at him too. I’m thinking a Ross,and Prado Platoon,and DeRosa the utility guy witha solid bat.That’s if no Quentin?
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:33 am
WARD:
I just took a peek at SUTTON’s numbers in the bigs. Not particularly impressive. Off the numbers, he appears to be a better fielding 2B than SS or 3B. LF fielding was also better than the left side of the infield.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:35 am
That’s if Wren,decides to keep Prado? If not Wren could still sign a Betemit,and get Quentin for LF,and Play Drew Sutton at SS.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:36 am
richbrave- It’s possible Wren,could use Sutton until Pastornicky is ready?
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:39 am
SUTTON’s hitting .258 career ML……..ugh! Low power numbers, he appears to be a line-drive type, more doubles than anything else in the power dept. plus he fared markedly better at the plate in the AL with CLEVELAND and BOSTON…..in particular BOSTON.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:43 am
richbrave- It’s risky playing Sutton,but just don’t see Wren getting that SS. I see Wen getting us that LF.
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:44 am
Frankly WARD, I’d prefer HICKS to SUTTON just off the numbers. BRANDON can’t hit a lick, but his fielding at SS is solid if you want a bridge to PASTORNICKY or SIMMONS. The point being vs. GONZO does any of this strengthen the team.? I don’t think it does.
Now MARK DeROSA would at least be an equal to CONNIE in my mind, and certainly an upgrade over last year.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:45 am
Wren, isn’t going to trade all the prospects for a SS. So I could see him doing that. Trying a Sutton type player…..Just until Pastornicky is ready.
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:46 am
richbrave – I wouldn’t mind Hicks either…….
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:48 am
I’m just thing along the budget…….
Ward
December 1st, 2011
4:51 am
richbrave- Have a good one! meant to say thinking along the budget. Typed to fast.peace………
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:56 am
WARD:
No WREN is not going to let go of arms for a SS, I agree. JACK WILSON is available I’m assuming unless he bolts here shortly with a better offer from another club. Same for ALEX. But if GONZALEZ wants a two-year deal and can’t get it anywhere, what’s he going to be like as a player in ATLANTA in 2012? Aside from a few temporary outbursts of productivity at the plate in 2011, he was an automatic out at the plate. What we’re trying to accomplish in 2012 is an elimination of ANY automatic outs in the line-up, thus WREN’s message to HEYWARD…..shape up or ship out. We need a serious upgrade at SS and LF to be a serious contender in the postseason and that’s just the way it is. What position does that most recent phenom from CUBA play?
richbrave
December 1st, 2011
4:58 am
Be cool WARD, back ‘atcha later.
Hery nolie………WAKE UP!
NickB
December 1st, 2011
5:01 am
Sutton is a good utility guy cuz he can play anywhere (including SS). He has a good bit of value and his minor league numbers show he can at least get on base at a decent clip. That’s all the team needs really from a utility guy. (especially since I think Prado will end up in Colorado for Smith and Wheeler/Blackman) Backup the infield and be able play SS.
Oh and all this talk about trading Mac is just silly. REPEAT AFTER ME: POSITIONAL VALUE IS KEY!……… It is much easier to replace Mac’s total production from LF than at catcher. Trading him for a power hitting LF’er (like a .280/.370/.450 guy) and then bringing in another catcher to start (Ross can’t, admits it himself he’s not a starter) who will probably hit (.270/.320/.420) is not going to solve the offensive woes of the team, but rather move them around from a place with HIGH VALUE to a place of LOW VALUE. Catchers who hit are rare, when you have one you DO NOT TRADE IT AWAY! Especially now in the drug testing era. A Platoon of Seth Smith and Diaz in LF combined with Mac would provide more WAR and more production than say Corey Hart and Matt Weiters…. It’s always easier to find power at the corners than at the plate. For relatively cheap too. But you never move strength from a high value position to a fill a lower value one guys… It’s bad baseball.
N8
December 1st, 2011
5:21 am
“not that they could possibly be more knowledgeable than the board haters…..” nolie
Oh look. The king of the strawmen, who accuses others of being a strawman is back everybody.
Yup. That’s right. Just hatin’ on Mac. Nothing more.
Proceed old man.
N8
December 1st, 2011
5:23 am
“Too early to even talk about Bethancourt……” Ward
No more than it’s too early to start talking about an extention for a guy who’s signed at a more reasonable rate than an extention would cost for the next two years.
N8
December 1st, 2011
5:24 am
“Gee. Baseball America Best Tool Edition which the spend months putting together OR local blog haters??” nolie
Wow. Such a strong point, you needed to post it twice? Well done.
Besides, there’s only a few people on here who hate the blog. I’m not one of them.
Where's the bunny?
December 1st, 2011
6:25 am
Now before people go bashing me for bashing Mac (yeah, I’m talking to you McFann. LOL).
Doctor: Whatever resentment she’s feeling, she probably got it out of her system.
Dan Gallagher: What if she didn’t get it out of her system? What then?
old man
December 1st, 2011
6:29 am
Rise and shine all.
What have I missed on the McCutcheon deal? Figured it would be done when I woke up this morning.
Morning Reads for Thursday, December 1st — Peach Pundit
December 1st, 2011
6:31 am
[...] few that I like… – Will the Braves resign Brian McCann? – Georgia will not wear the hideous Nike Pro-Combat uniforms on Saturday. – Speaking of the dogs, [...]
t-plunk
December 1st, 2011
6:44 am
if the braves don’t keep a player like mccann they can forget about keeping this fan. good grief!
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2011
7:18 am
BAS – well I’m sorry to tarnish the perfect grammar record of the blog because I don’t always use a period at the end of my comments.
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2011
7:21 am
If you can’t tell I bolded that one.
Bill M.
December 1st, 2011
7:25 am
McFANN 00o— I know, I know, ain’t that the truth.
Jeff R
December 1st, 2011
8:30 am
From N8’s overnight posts regarding McCann:
“I’m just not so sure with the money situation payroll wise this team is in, that Mac is the guy you center this offense around.”
I’m not sure that’s what Wren would think, but payroll moving forward has to be a driver in determining big signings or re-ups. Unless the Braves’ ownership changes and the new owner(s) have the financial means and desire to spend more.
“So ask yourself the question, if his [McCann's] numbers drop any more. Say for example in 2 or 3 years he’s a 17 HR, 65 RBI guy with a .750 OPS…. is that going to be worth 16 million a year? Is Chipper worth 14 million right now since the extention?”
That’s a reasonable question. Very few things are constant, though it’s guesswork if McCann’s numbers will slide in the midterm. But it’s fair to play the probabilities. Catchers tend not to hold up well over the long haul. Moving McCann to the outfield or elsewhere… Possible, certainly. But while McCann’s offensive output may justify a good payday as a catcher, will his numbers as an OF justify a big dollar payday?
Oh, well, McCann isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, which is a very good thing for the Braves.
John Brown
December 1st, 2011
8:32 am
I love McCann, but we’ve been real lucky to have him early in his career like this. Any reasonable person will say that by year 3 any long term deal will look bad. Re sign him planning to trade him early on in the deal or trade him. He’s gonna start getting hurt. He’s got some serious mileage. I love McCann, but we have to do this eventually. Sooner than later for value….
CB
December 1st, 2011
8:34 am
BAS correcting jeffrey’s grammar. hehe
VaBravesFan
December 1st, 2011
8:51 am
Good Morning Everyone, just stoppin in to say I hope everyone has a good day. See yall later
ParkerOverThere
December 1st, 2011
8:53 am
Hey DOB. How come Schultzy allowed to vote for the hall but you aren’t?
Random
December 1st, 2011
8:53 am
CR: “The Braves did not offer salary arbitration to free agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez on Wednesday’s deadline, choosing not to risk him accepting and commanding more than $3 million in arbitration. . . . . Gonzalez, 34, is seeking a two-year deal, which the Braves weren’t prepared to offer.”
The length of the contract AGonzalez wanted is not a factor — if the Braves had offered arbitration, it would have resulted in a one-year contract.
So the Braves cannot hide behind or use the excuse that they didn’t want to offer him a two-year deal — it was the measly $3-4 M they did not want to give up.
IMO, they should have ponied up for one more year. Who better to mentor young Tyler, who has the offense but needs work on his defense?
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
8:59 am
Random, I’m not sure that AGon is the one I would want mentoring Tyler. AGon to me dogged it quite often, I’d much rather have Uggla mentor Tyler on the aspects of working hard every day and every time out.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:01 am
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Some executives convinced that there will be a lot of trade talk and deals at the winter meetings, because teams shying away from FA prices
I hope. Always fun when there is a lot of player movement at the winter meetings instead of just rumors.
TennesseePaul
December 1st, 2011
9:02 am
I finally read that Denver Post article with the rumors in it about Prado. I kept wondering why the offer was so ridiculous until I read that. They’re doing that with every team. Trades get done when both sides acknowledge the needs of the other side and attempt to work a deal which fills those needs. The Braves have a publicly stated need for a right handed hitting corner outfielder. The Rockies step up and offer a left handed hitting platoon player. Really?
“I’ve got a need for a small pick up truck. Think it would come in handy for small projects around the house. You know, then I’d be able to pick up plywood from the store, stuff like that.”
“Well sir, how about this moped right here? It’s electric.”
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
9:12 am
Efrim, don’t get your hopes up.. they say that every year.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:12 am
The Rockies step up and offer a left handed hitting platoon player. Really?
I blame Matt Diaz. If he wasn’t on the roster, then people wouldn’t think a platoon in LF was possible. Just joking there……kind of……
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:13 am
AT, true. And no big free agent has signed yet.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
9:16 am
Personally, I hope we do something with Detroit if we’re moving Prado. I’d love to see us get Austin Jackson and Nick Castellanos in some type of return.
CB
December 1st, 2011
9:17 am
I love Matt Diaz but him being on this team is not good.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:17 am
Chacin, Hammel, Pomeranz, White, Nicasio, Chatwood. Rockies still need another arm. Also, Matzek and Freidrich fell out of their top ten. Two former first round picks.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
9:21 am
If we could get Jackson we won’t necessarily need Bourn. And I think if Detroit knew they would receive a replacement for Jackson in the way of Bourn they might be more willing to make the deal. But that move would just be a precursor to the main goal. Freeing up that much space would allow us to sign someone like CJ Wilson to team with Hudson at the top of the rotation. I miss the days we had a true dominate lefty in the rotation and I think with Hudson and Wilson anchoring the top half of the rotation would reduce the amount of pressure on the rest of the rotation.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
9:23 am
man, I used the word rotation a lot in that last half of the post.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:23 am
I mean, we needed a RH stick. But if we get one via trade, then he’s kind of a 5th outfielder that doesn’t play CF. I guess we have to wait and see how the roster evolves.
CB
December 1st, 2011
9:25 am
AT, are you going to change your name to Crazy Trades? LOL
McFann O O o
December 1st, 2011
9:26 am
Happy Anniversary to BMac and Ashley!
Lord, so much overnight stuff…
whereshould I even start…?Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
9:29 am
Those aren’t too crazy or at least in the way that it would hurt the club. Crazy as in they won’t happen, most definitely. I don’t think anyone in the FO would have the kahunas to make such a bold move.
Silver Slubber
December 1st, 2011
9:29 am
Mac is the fastest snail in the race. His offensive numbers are really good….. for a catcher. I don’t want my offense based on my catcher, especially when the season is wearing on him late and I need his bat and his bat is a no show. There are just too many bad things that can happen to a catcher (injury/wear and tear of the season) that makes depending on that position for your offense really risky.
This is not an indictment of Mac, it’s an indictment of any club that puts too much offensive emphasis on their catcher. A team can win with a catcher who calls a great game, throws out baserunners and hits a little bit as long as they have other everyday bats who can shoulder the offensive load. Seems like that recipe has worked for the Cards. No one is ever going to mistake Molina for Barry Bonds. On the other hand, no one is going to mistake Mac for Barry Bonds either.
Trade Mac now while he has max value.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
9:31 am
I just haven’t drank the kool-aid the FO has been stating about Bourn. I don’t necessarily believe he’s worth an extension in the amount they are talking nor do I see him as that super bat at the top of the lineup.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
9:37 am
AT
I really don’t think there has been any kool-aid served up by the FO about Bourn. All that has really been said is that they will look at a longer term extension.
They know Scott Boras isn’t interested in an extension. That was all window dressing.
They are waiting to see if the first half of 2011 Bourn shows up, or the normal Bourn shows in 2012.
Bourn will be the subject of attention NEXT winter.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:40 am
Trade Mac now while he has max value.
Totally. Let’s also trade the following, since we are trying to capitalize on “max value”:
Jason Heyward
Freddie Freeman
Michael Bourn
Dan Uggla
Tommy Hanson
Jair Jurrjens
Brandon Beachy
Mike Minor
Julio Teheran
Randall Delgado
Craig Kimbrel
Jonny Venters
Arodys Vizcaino
Kris Medlen
Go Braves.
RC
December 1st, 2011
9:48 am
I love Matt Diaz but him being on this team is not good.
I think the problem stems from him making $2 million to be on this team.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:50 am
Pujols, Fielder, Reyes, Rollins, Beltran, Cuddyer, Ortiz, Willingham for hitters. Wilson, Buerhle, Oswalt, Jackson for starters. Madson, K-Rod, Bell for relievers. 15 high profile free agents – none of which have signed a contract. Gonna be a crazy next couple weeks.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:51 am
Good point, RC. However, even if he were making 1.5 million like Hinske, does it make sense given the teams needs and current structure? Just have to see how the roster shapes up.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
9:52 am
Looking at that list of players I posted at 9:40, it’s amazing how much young talent this team has – expecially pitching wise.
RC
December 1st, 2011
9:54 am
Efrim,
No, he doesn’t make a ton of sense even at $1 million. But if he were making around that level I’d feel much better about it, since that’s a low enough figure to release him if a better option is found, but you’ve still got him around just in case a better option ISN’T found.
abwright
December 1st, 2011
10:04 am
Pudge Rodriguez is still productive at 41.
Carlton Fisk kept playing til 45.
Johnny Bench was done by 35.
Mike Piazza played til 38.
Jason Varitek is still active at 39.
I’m sure McCann will have some drop off after his current contract expires, but to predict that he will be done by 32-34 does not seem to be a wise prediction.
Also, to characterize McCann, who missed time due to a collision, two eye issues, and an oblique, as injury prone, seems to be an over-reaction.
The only injury in there that seems to make him look fragile is the oblique injury.
Any catcher can lose time due to a collision and the eye problems were as fluky as I’ve ever heard (caffeine induced eye-dryness?).
Silver Slubber
December 1st, 2011
10:04 am
“Looking at that list of players I posted at 9:40, it’s amazing how much young talent this team has – especially pitching wise.”
You should apply for a job in the Braves front office. Just like them, you value your players more than many other organizations do your players.
And as for the “max value” comment, Jason Heyward, JJ, Tommy Hanson? LOL you’re drinking early today! One of these guys is coming off an epic FAIL sophomore season and the other two are coming off injury.
Bill
December 1st, 2011
10:07 am
N8..I agree with you 100% on Brian McCann @3:10 etc. Got to get back to work.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
10:08 am
You should apply for a job in the Braves front office. Just like them, you value your players more than many other organizations do your players.
What player on that list is incorrectly valued by myself?
abwright
December 1st, 2011
10:10 am
Random, December 1st, 2011, 8:53 am … “The length of the contract AGonzalez wanted is not a factor — “
It is in the sense that the Braves did not want to play the arbitration game. Since AGon wanted more than a one-year contract, why offer him a one-year contract (arbitration)?
However, I suspect that the Braves would rather not have AGon back and, as you suggested, the Braves’ spin of “he wanted a two year contract” was a way to avoid saying “we don’t want AGon back, players’ ovation not-withstanding.”
P'cola Brave
December 1st, 2011
10:10 am
To whoever mentioned Drew Sutton as a starter earlier, that won’t happen. He was signed to a minor league contract to give depth in AAA if he doesn’t make the ML roster. At most he will be Conrad’s replacement on the 25 man. He is a utility man that plays 2B,SS,3B and LF. Hits from both sides. Seems to me he will be one of Conrads competitors for the 25 man spot.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
10:11 am
Forgot a few more….
Pujols, Fielder, Reyes, Rollins, Beltran, Cuddyer, Ortiz, Willingham, Pena, Ramirez, Johnson, Cespedes for hitters. Wilson, Buerhle, Oswalt, Jackson, Darvish for starters. Madson, K-Rod, Bell for relievers.
20 high profile free agents.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
10:17 am
If you depend too much on your catchers’ offense, then you don’t get rid of your catcher who happens to be the best hitting catcher in the league – you go get other players who can hit and put them at other positions that play everyday.
Those who think trading McCann is a good idea are complete idiots. YOu won’t get someone better than the one who is already the best.
raleighbravefan
December 1st, 2011
10:19 am
McFann – Somehow, I just don’t see you boiling any bunnies, no matter what the circumstance (RE the 6:25 comment). LOL!
BravePack
December 1st, 2011
10:21 am
abwright @10:04 am
I agree with YOU 100% on Brian McCann.
raleighbravefan
December 1st, 2011
10:23 am
Lew – It’s the new “fantacy” mentality. We must have the top allstar at every position, or else Wren is an idiot who can’t do his job. Of course, this has ne connection to reality, and to budget constraints. It also assumes that every other GM is a moron, whose sole purpose is to improve the Braves.
McFann O O o
December 1st, 2011
10:25 am
raleighbravefan—
I’m…not really sure what that means…
Lew
December 1st, 2011
10:27 am
raleighbraves – Thing is, we already HAVE the top All Star catcher on the team. I seriously wonder who people think will be better than the best. Certainly NOT a sub rookie from High A ball, who had a good series in Arizona.
coach13
December 1st, 2011
10:38 am
You don’t trade the proven for the unproven. McCann still has several good years in front of him behind the plate.
keyLargo
December 1st, 2011
10:45 am
15 high profile free agents – none of which have signed a contract. Gonna be a crazy next couple weeks.
Yeah, Braves fans can hardly sleep.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
10:47 am
Don’t exactly see any reason to be concerned about McCann at this moment. We’ve got him under control and accounted for over the next several years. Let’s focus on areas that we actually have a need and what we are going to do to correct it.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
10:49 am
key largo – I’ve been awake due to lack of trades? I thought it was bad neuropathy in my foot.
Murph
December 1st, 2011
10:52 am
AT, how’s your dad doing?
raleighbravefan
December 1st, 2011
10:53 am
McFann – Earlier post was suggesting that if McCann is traded, may go postal, like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction. If you didn’t see it…she boiled the pet bunny of Michael Douglas for revenge. I was just saying that I didn’t think that would be your reaction.
N8
December 1st, 2011
10:54 am
“Thing is, we already HAVE the top All Star catcher on the team. I seriously wonder who people think will be better than the best. Certainly NOT a sub rookie from High A ball, who had a good series in Arizona.” Lew
Lew, this argument currently holds water and can be used over anybody suggesting that we trade Mac NOW.
However, it cannot be used to justify locking him up long-term when he’s under control through 2013, and a kid like Bethancourt certainly could be ready to produce in 2014.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
10:54 am
Nah – Just don’t see McFann doing any bunny boiling.
abwright
December 1st, 2011
10:57 am
I can’t see McFann boiling any bunnies (or other small furry animals for that matter).
I can see McFann pulling a Seinfeld and going to someone’s workplace and heckling them.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
10:58 am
Nathan – Maybe you’d better go look up at what age most catchers numbers serverely fall off. It’s over age 35. Mac is fine for another 4-5 year contract before any serious drop off occurs.
If he IS offered a 4-5 year deal, it’s over by the time he hits 35. I certainly wouldn’t sign Mac to a contract where he’s getting paid to catch at age 39-40 like Chipper, but let’s get real here. He’s only 28 and won’t be ancient at the end of a reasonable contract extension.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
10:58 am
Murph, He’s actually sounded a little better, still not eating much but they are saying he may get to go home Monday. Thanks for asking.
keyLargo
December 1st, 2011
10:58 am
Lew, I was being sarcastic that of all the 15 or 20 “top free agents”, the Braves are involved in contract negotiations with exactly 0 of them.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
10:59 am
keylargo, yeah, but I’m a baseball fan as well. Player movement, trades, etc. All fun stuff, imo. Even if the Braves aren’t involved.
McFann O O o
December 1st, 2011
11:05 am
No, I’d never boil any bunnies!! I’ll just sic Petey and my Wrennies on these people…
Oh, and we saw our deer today—I could gather them up, as well…
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
11:05 am
I think your not going to move your core players and the way I see it, I think the only players on this that are considered core ( core meaning long term future ) are:
Positional: McCann, Uggla, Heyward and Freeman
Pitching: Kimbrel, Venters, Teheran, Beachy, Hanson, Minor, Delgado and Vizcaino
Old players that are here to stay: Chipper and Hudson
Outside of the above named players, I think anyone could and should be moved if you can acquire “core” players in return.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
11:06 am
key largo – I know Dude, I was adding what I hoped was a funny of my own. I must feed my Inner Smart Ass.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
11:08 am
Transplant – I pretty much agree about that assessment. Mac’s going nowhere. Got to have one contract for the bloggers to gripe about, don’t we?
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
11:10 am
Yeah, and given how much is coming off the books over the next 2 years, it shouldn’t hurt to sign McCann to a little larger contract.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2011
11:12 am
Got it confirmed that Wren and scouts were there for a Cespedes workout in D.R., but probably didn’t make the trip specifically to see the Cuban outfielder. Rather, it was a trip to check in on the Braves’ Latin American operations and training camp, where they’ve made a lot of chances in the past couple of years.
Like I said, I don’t think they’d get in a bidding war for Cespedes, but good to know they’re doing their due diligence.
Murph
December 1st, 2011
11:13 am
AT, that’s great… glad to hear he’s sounding better. This kind of stuff is really tough to handle, especially at this time of the year. I’m gonna keep sending my good thoughts your way.
Just picked up Battlefield 3 (got it for $25 on Cyber Monday)… haven’t had a chance to play yet though. You still playing MW3?
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:13 am
Just noticed that Pat Veditte is eligible for the Rule 5 draft. Maybe the Braves will make a play for him since as a switch pitcher Fredi would have to work twice as hard to overwork him.
(In all seriousness, his minor league numbers are really, really good. I’d be suprised is someone doesn’t take him.)
Jeff R
December 1st, 2011
11:15 am
“Trade Mac now while he has max value.”
Totally. Let’s also trade the following, since we are trying to capitalize on “max value”:
Jason Heyward
Freddie Freeman
Michael Bourn
Dan Uggla
Tommy Hanson
Jair Jurrjens
Brandon Beachy
Mike Minor
Julio Teheran
Randall Delgado
Craig Kimbrel
Jonny Venters
Arodys Vizcaino
Kris Medlen
– Efrim
Chipper would be awfully lonely.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
11:15 am
AT, good summary. I’d agree with that as well.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:15 am
Got it confirmed that Wren and scouts were there for a Cespedes workout in D.R.
Did they hang around for the pig roasting afterwards? (reference to the fantastic video Cespedes people put out about a month ago)
Jeff R
December 1st, 2011
11:17 am
Cespedes… I just can’t see Wren locking anyone up with a big contract right now. But…
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
11:17 am
RC, do you know who else is available? I believe the White Sox decided not to protect Jordan Danks.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
11:17 am
Murph, I appreciate it.
Yes, still MW3ing it. Have you had a chance to give it a go yet? Need to let me know when you do and we can team up. I gave the Battlefield 3 demo a run there, it seemed like it could be worth the investment. You’ll have to let me know what you think of it.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
11:17 am
RC/Efrim
You guys were discussing Diaz earlier. As best I remember, the Pirates sent over about half of his salary for 2012.
Maybe DOB can confirm?
So if we are only on the hook for 1 million, you could always keep Matty D around for insurance during spring training. If he doesn’t make it, 1 million is not too much to release or send down (if he’d go).
Personally, I’m hoping for the healthy Matt Diaz from the 3 years with the Braves with NO injuries. Remember him? He OPS’d way over 800 those 3 years. And killed lefty pitching.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:19 am
DS1,
I remember the Pirates sending over some money, but wasn’t sure if it was for 2011 or if some spilled into 2012. Also not sure on the amount. Agree with you on everything else.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
11:19 am
DOB, thanks for the update. It’s good to know at least we aren’t turning a blind eye to Cespedes. Although, I don’t see how signing Cespedes would be any worse than signing some of the other FA that have been mentioned. How much are they thinking this guy is going to get yearly?
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
December 1st, 2011
11:20 am
RC, the Braves 40 man roster sits at 36. Four spots open, we could be active in the rule V draft this time around.
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
11:22 am
The biggest problem with Diaz isn’t the money, it’s the spot on the roster he’s taking up.
DS1, I agree. Take him to ST and let him earn his spot and if he isn’t capable.. maybe it’s just best to cut him loose and fill that spot with someone that would carry more value to the club.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:23 am
Coach,
We definitely have slots open on the 40-man, but I wonder if we have enough projected spots open on the 25-man to make a Rule V guy worthwhile. If we don’t keep them on the 25-man (or DL) the entire season, their old team gets them back.
DS1
December 1st, 2011
11:24 am
Now if Matty carried a CF’ers glove in his duffle bag…………..
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
11:25 am
Trade Mac now while he has max value.
And receive back what, exactly? Obviously, you won’t get back major league players of his caliber. Even if you got back a bevy of top-shelf prospects, you’ve still handicapped the big-league team in the present against the projection of a better team in the future. A future that is nebulous from both a time and a performance perspective.
Rebuilding teams can go all “value will never be higher” as they wish, because one or even two elite players can’t make a big enough difference amidst the team-wide suckage of the rebuilder. Teams that want to contend, however, know that trading All-Stars because they have two years of club control left and their VWNBH is a mistake made only those who mischaracterize “bang for the buck” for real, actual “bang”.
DAP
December 1st, 2011
11:25 am
correct me if im wrong, but rule draftees have to stay on the 25-man, right? not sure we would have space to take a chance to a player, unless diaz doesnt stay.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:26 am
Now if Matty carried a CF’ers glove in his duffle bag…………
I’d rather he carried a CF’ers legs….
Arkansas Transplant
December 1st, 2011
11:27 am
DAP, the only slot that my be available might be as a situational pen guy.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:28 am
DAP,
You are correct. The guy I suggested (Venditte) is a relief pitcher, and while I don’t know that we have any open spots, we could pretty easily hold a guy down at AAA early in the season until injury and/or 18-inning game makes a move necessary.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:28 am
By hold someone at AAA, I meant hold someone else down. Any Rule V guy would have to stay on the team.
RC
December 1st, 2011
11:29 am
I want Venditte partially because I think he can help the Braves, but mostly because I want to watch a switch pitcher on the team. He has a 6-fingered glove that goes on either hand.
DAP
December 1st, 2011
11:30 am
diaz has 6 innings of ML play in CF, no errors. only one chance, but he caught that sucker.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
11:32 am
only one chance, but he caught that sucker.
Well, that’s better than not catching it, I’ll give you that.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
11:34 am
He has a 6-fingered glove that goes on either hand.
Shoot, might be worth it just to see him try to field a shot to the mound with that thing, LOL.
Ease
December 1st, 2011
11:34 am
TroyRenck Troy Renck, Rockies
Braves prefer CF in a deal I’ve been told RT @camcorderhskr22: why don’t Rockies offer Stewart w Smith for Prado or is that asking too much?
TennesseePaul
December 1st, 2011
11:40 am
Back late to the bash Diaz show. Sorry I missed most of it.
I don’t think Diaz is the reason the Rockies are offering a left handed platoon player. And I don’t think he makes “absolutely zero sense” being on the team. He also doesn’t cost $2M as the Pirates are paying a portion of his salary. Diaz should be used as a platoon player, as Bobby used him. He’d have value in that situation. He’s there so Young, Ramirez, etc don’t have to be there. He’s a bench player. If the team can actually get another team to acknowledge the Braves needs and work from there, then a right handed corner outfielder will be obtained to play a more prominent role. Diaz won’t impede that in the least bit. Diaz’s presence on the roster blocks only the crappiest of minor league lifers. He could even be part of a trade.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
11:47 am
Never can tell……Matt might actually remeber how to hit LHP again.
TennesseePaul
December 1st, 2011
11:49 am
Braves prefer CF in a deal I’ve been told
Wasn’t it this past summer the news was the exceptional depth in position players the Braves had. I recall something like that coming out. I think it was right after Ef and I bashed the last few drafts for a solid week. CF was covered with Lipka, etc. SS was as deep as could be with Pastornicky, etc… This is shaping up to be, what, the third or forth CF the Braves are aiming for since AJ left?
I do miss the old days when the Braves would actually field a strong outfield. AJ, Sheffield, Jordan Version 1.0, Gant, Klesko (he hit pretty friggin well), Justice. So many strong outfielders. Lately, not so much. It’s been a black hole of offensive production.
DAP
December 1st, 2011
11:51 am
10paul Diaz’s presence on the roster blocks only the crappiest of minor league lifers.
looking at my mock-25 man roster i keep every winter, i think youre right. heres what i have
Braves 2012 25-Man
Lineup
1. Brian McCann C
2. Freddie Freeman 1B
3. Dan Uggla 2B
4. SS
5. Chipper Jones 3B
6. Martin Prado LF
7. Michael Bourn CF
8. Jason Heyward RF
Rotation
9. Tim Hudson SP
10. Jair Jurrjens SP
11. Tommy Hanson SP
12. Mike Minor SP
13. Brandon Beachy SP
Bullpen
14. Craig Kimbrel CL
15. Jonny Venters RP
16. Eric O’Flarety RP
17. RP
18. RP
19. RP
20. RP
Bench
21. David Ross BUC
22. Matt Diaz LF, RF
23. Eric Hinske 1B, RF, LF
24. Util
25. Util
if everything stays as is, we have enough room on the bench for 1 more outfielder, hopefully that can play CF, and a utility INF, that can play SS. this, to go along with our starting SS, whoever that will be. the person diaz blocks is brooks conrad. i can deal with that.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
11:51 am
I still don’t see them trading Prado. If Wren makes any trades, I’m betting he uses minor league talent – there should be plenty of it available.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
11:53 am
He also doesn’t cost $2M as the Pirates are paying a portion of his salary.
He’s actually owed 2.125 million in 2012 after signing a two year, 4.25 million dollar deal with the Pirates last offseason. So perhaps the Pirates are paying him 125K, I’m really not sure of the amount of cash they gave us.
He could even be part of a trade.
I’d like that.
Efrim
December 1st, 2011
11:57 am
It’s been a black hole of offensive production.
Yup. We just need position players overall in the next draft. Outfield, especially. Mikie Mahtook would of made a lot of sense in 2011…..
What’s that? Lefty? Of the polished, college variety??!
Mike Berry
December 1st, 2011
11:58 am
Cespedes has more teams taking a look at him (including Braves) than just about anyone I can remember in quite sometime. However…writer for the Nationals says that he will likely be seeking a deal in the 35-60 million dollar range. That pretty much does it for the Braves interest in him I would think.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2011
12:01 pm
DS1, yes the Pirates sent cash to pay a chunk of Diaz’s salary. No one’s been able to get exact amount, but roughly half is probably a reasonable estimate.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2011
12:02 pm
Hey DOB. How come Schultzy allowed to vote for the hall but you aren’t?– ParkerOverThere
The reasoning from our policy-makers is that a columnist’s job is to express opinion.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
12:03 pm
However…writer for the Nationals says that he will likely be seeking a deal in the 35-60 million dollar range.
For a guy who has never put on cleats in the US, minors, majors, heck, even indie league. Who might be 26. Maybe.
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:04 pm
How many years does Cespedes want this 35-60 million over? Because I would think if the AAV is something around $7 million per, then the Braves should be right in the thick of this.
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:05 pm
It’s amusing to me that Aroldis Chapman was a HUGE signing….and he made less last year than Scott Linebrink.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
12:05 pm
This is shaping up to be, what, the third or forth CF the Braves are aiming for since AJ left?
Maybe they’ll be able to find one without sports hernias and fractured wrists. That might go some to solving the problem.
JoeMac
December 1st, 2011
12:15 pm
McCann is only the SECOND best catcher in the NL. When you take the OVERALL play into consideration, Yadier Molina is CLEARLY the better catcher. McCann will hit a few more HR which should give him some xtra RBI’s, but Molina will hit for a higher avg.,is one of the toughest hitters to strike out, and is head and shoulders better defensively. Tha runs he saves with his arm will even out McCann’s RBI’s.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2011
12:18 pm
Black Keys fans, you can hear the first song off their upcoming record El Camino here: http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/11/29/stream-five-new-songs-from-the-new-black-keys-album-el-camino/
And hear five songs off the album at the Keys’ website: http://www.theblackkeys.com/news/5-songs-el-camino
DAP
December 1st, 2011
12:18 pm
JoeMac McCann is only the SECOND best catcher in the NL. When you take the OVERALL play into consideration, Yadier Molina is CLEARLY the better catcher
bullcrap. you have no idea what youre talking about.
pop quiz, which catcher has the highest career batting average, mccann or molina?
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:18 pm
McCann is CLEARLY the BEST catcher in the ENTIRE National League. I KNOW this to be TRUE because I used CAPTIAL letters throughout my post.
There is nothing wrong with arguing that Molina is better than McCann. But unless you back it up with some actual data instead of hyberbole, I’m going to continue to disagree.
Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)
December 1st, 2011
12:25 pm
When will Frank Wren and Kenny Williams hook up?
Inquiring minds want to know.
CB
December 1st, 2011
12:26 pm
Yadier is the flavor of the year. Who knows who will be next year.
JoeMac
December 1st, 2011
12:26 pm
Molina has always been the best receiver while his hitting was a work in progress. He has now gotten his hitting up to the level of his catching. McCann has always been the best HITTING (CAPITAL LETTERS) catcher, but not anymore. If McCann had not gone into the tank for the last 6-8 weeks of the season, then the mighty Atlanta Braves probably would have been in the playoffs. And frankly I could care less if you agree or not. I am sure that if he asked, Yadi would let McCann look at his gold gloves, and World Series rings.
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:27 pm
When will Frank Wren and Kenny Williams hook up?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Probably somewhere between cocktail number 4 and 6.
McFann O O o
December 1st, 2011
12:28 pm
DAP pop quiz, which catcher has the highest career batting average, mccann or molina?
Oo!! Oo!! I know! I know!!
Jay Dubu
December 1st, 2011
12:28 pm
Braves need to make some moves already!!!!!
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:30 pm
Molina has always been the best receiver while his hitting was a work in progress.
This, while being a widely held opinion, is still just an opinion. I would like to see some factual evidence that Molina is truly the “best receiver”. (And please do not point to his Gold Gloves. Because I will then point you to Nate McLouth and Rafael Palmerio’s Gold Gloves. It’s an award based up opinion, and in many cases it’s really, really flawed.)
CB
December 1st, 2011
12:31 pm
Jay Dubu, you need to spend more time on your blog and Ben less.
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:33 pm
As for the hitting aspect, This was Mac’s worst offensive year, and Molina’s best offensive year. As a result their wOBA was almost equal. While it’s certainly possible that the means that McCann is going to keep going down and Molina is going to keep going up, I don’t think that there is very much reason to expect that. Especially with McCann being one year younger than Molina.
Ease
December 1st, 2011
12:35 pm
Jay Dubu, you need to spend more time on your blog and Ben less.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
JoeMac
December 1st, 2011
12:37 pm
True, and your opinion is really, really flawed. Quit being a Braves homer and look outside the box. You just might see some real talent on the field. McCann was always an afterthought till he got 1(one) hit in the all star game, then all of a sudden he became the best catcher in the NL. Never a mention till he got the hit. Overall, Molina is a better catcher. McCann is #2.
JoeBrave
December 1st, 2011
12:40 pm
How long til Frank Wren signs Jeff Bianchi to a minor league deal? loves the Dollar General ball playas !
JoeBrave
December 1st, 2011
12:42 pm
the previous 14 signees is dumpster diving at it’s best!
DAP
December 1st, 2011
12:42 pm
JoeMac Molina has always been the best receiver while his hitting was a work in progress. He has now gotten his hitting up to the level of his catching.
oh, he has now gotten his hitting up to par? a year a go he OPSed .671. he OPSed his career average by over 100 points and his own best OPS season by over 70 points. no, what molina did was get hot for 3 months. check his slash line on july 1st. it was at his normal mis .700 level. he hasnt figured anything out.
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:45 pm
Or if you really want to see the OVERALL value of Molina vs. BMac, let’s look at their WAR (wins above replacement) year-by-year. And since these account for defense, we should get an accurate portrayal.
Molina:
2011 – 4.1
2010 – 2.4
2009 – 3.5
2008 – 2.7
2007 – 2.0
2006 – 0.2
McCann:
2011 – 3.7
2010 – 4.8
2009 – 4.0
2008 – 5.3
2007 – 2.2
2006 – 4.5
In 2011, Molina had a higher WAR than McCann. In every other season, McCann has had a higher WAR than Molina, including having TWICE as much as Molina in 2010, and almost twice as much in 2008 (and simply destroying him in 2006).
RC
December 1st, 2011
12:47 pm
JoeMac,
My evidence is above. Let me know when you get yours.
Murph
December 1st, 2011
12:47 pm
Lot of whining going on today on the blog…. I feel it’s my duty to remind everyone that it’s now December and Santa is watching.
You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I’m telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
He’s making a list
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out Who’s naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
He sees you when you’re sleeping (just like Ward)
He knows when you’re awake
He knows if you’ve been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
Oh! You better watch out!
You better not cry
Better not pout
I’m telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
detroitchris
December 1st, 2011
12:50 pm
Entire Black Keys album available to listen to….
http://www.electricmariachi.com/album-streams/indierock/the-black-keys-el-camino-album-stream?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150387686998247_19885753_10150389505943247
Wow
December 1st, 2011
12:56 pm
I’d take Molina over McCann. Wasn’t the excuse for Alex Gonzalez always that his defense was soooo great, that it didn’t matter that he was such a pathetic hitter? Well, it’s the same for Molina, except Molina’s also a good hitter.
This is going to be an important year for McCann. If he slips up even a little and/or Bethancourt continues to progress, his days with the Braves are numbered.
Bat Masterson
December 1st, 2011
1:00 pm
Well, if we had Molina, we could stop talking about whether or not Heap is fat and could debate whether Molina is genetically male or female.
DAP
December 1st, 2011
1:02 pm
bat!! ha.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
1:05 pm
The Walking Clueless still out in force. Baseball Zombies that don’t need brains for nutritional value, but a massive lack of sense.
McFann O O o
December 1st, 2011
1:06 pm
RC Because I will then point you to Nate McLouth and Rafael Palmerio’s Gold Gloves.
Don’t forget David Wright winning with 20-some-odd errors…
Murph—
Lew
December 1st, 2011
1:07 pm
If he slips up even alittle? YOu mean in the next four or five years when Betancourt might actually be ready and actually posts some numebers with more relevance than those from an extended series in Arizona?
He Hate Me
December 1st, 2011
1:08 pm
Trade Heyward. Trade him today! LOSER!
JoeMac
December 1st, 2011
1:10 pm
I am an ardent BB fan, and have followed the game closely for over 50 years, and I have never seen a WAR stat, nor have any of my friends that I just asked who, like me, are huge BB fans. Just wondering where you got your laughable stats?? And the formula for computing ssuch drivel.
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2011
1:10 pm
Trade Heyward. Trade him today! LOSER!
Are you calling us losers?
McFann O O o
December 1st, 2011
1:12 pm
If he slips up even a little
For the haters, that means if he hits under .290 with fewer than 25 HR, fewer than 85 RBI, and probably fewer than 25 Doubles…
He’s prolly gotta bat at least .295 with 27 HR and 98 RBI for them to be satisfied…and even then they’d be t’d that he didn’t get those 2 extra RBI…
abwright
December 1st, 2011
1:12 pm
ncscoots, December 1st, 2011, 11:34 am … “Shoot, might be worth it just to see him [Verdit] try to field a shot to the mound with that thing [six-fingered glove], LOL.
I hear he’s got a small glove for Little Verdit just for that situation.
jeffrey d
December 1st, 2011
1:13 pm
Or….we could just accept that there’s 2 sides to every argument. The Braves aren’t perfect, but there are flaws.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
1:13 pm
Well, it’s the same for Molina, except Molina’s also a good hitter.
The road is littered with the DFA’ed bodies of catchers who had a career year and were thought to be better than McCann, forevermore. Someone let me know when one of those one-year wonders produces more WAR over half a decade. One might then have an argument that will get one something more than pitying head-shakes.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
1:13 pm
JoeMac- WAR aside, you didn’t learn much in those 50+ years if you truly believe that Mac is as bad as you claim he is. Of course, he was elected to the All Star game every full year he’s played and only one by the Fans. The rest were by the players – but WTF do they know?
Yet another of The Walking Clueless.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
1:15 pm
Just wondering where you got your laughable stats?? And the formula for computing ssuch drivel.
I think the relevance of the discussion may have just ended.
David O'Brien
December 1st, 2011
1:16 pm
Lew blasting with both barrels today … I love it.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
1:24 pm
Just saw a photo of Daniel Day Lewis in makeup for a role as Abraham Lincoln. Amazing resemblance
abwright
December 1st, 2011
1:24 pm
Many have said that WAR isn’t the most reliable and objective stat. However, it contains some information. If one player has a significantly, consistently higher WAR than another player, you can say to some level of confidence that said player is the better performer.
If you said player A has a WAR of 2.0 and player B has a WAR of 2.1, therefore, player B is better than player A, you would be a buffoon. But, if player A has an average WAR of 5.0 over five seasons and player B has an average WAR of 2.0 over five seasons, player A is better than player B. No contest.
(Or “No Mas” as Roberto Duran was once heard to proclaim.)
RC
December 1st, 2011
1:26 pm
JoeMac,
Not that you had any crediblity to start with, but you just lost it when first saying that you hadn’t heard of a stat and then calling it “laughable” and “drivel”. If you’ve not heard of something, there’s nothing wrong with that. Dismissing something without any knowledge of what it is or what it does is just pigheaded and stupid.
There was a point in time that people had never heard of this internet thing. Good thing they didn’t all dismiss it as “drivel”.
Here is an explanation of what WAR is, and what it does: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/misc/war/
But obviously anything that measures how many wins a single player adds to his team much be “laughable”.
TnBrian
December 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
Speaking of the “Walking Clueless” … Rockies really believe a career.293 hitter who can play all IF positions except SS and play both corner OF spots – and won’t come close to embarrassing you playing any of those positions – is only worth a platoon LF who plays most his games in a hitters park?
Thank God we have a GM with a brain in his head.
ncscoots
December 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
There was a point in time that people had never heard of this internet thing. Good thing they didn’t all dismiss it as “drivel”.
Just think, though. You could have traded the internet at that point, if only you had thought, “the value will never be higher.”
Jbailz
December 1st, 2011
1:31 pm
Over 50,000 people here in Utah without power, winds over 100 mph doing all sorts of damage. These pictures don’t even do it justice.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=18309646&nid=460&pid=0
Keep those people in your thoughts please
RC
December 1st, 2011
1:32 pm
Well done scoots.
Lew
December 1st, 2011
1:33 pm
Hope Wayne (DS1) isn’t gone with the wind.
N8
December 1st, 2011
1:35 pm
I’m not a big WAR guy, and don’t even know where to begin looking for it. Perhaps it’s easy to find on baseball-reference’s site, which I use for most of my stats.
But out of curiousity, what was Brooks Conrad’s “WAR” in 2010? Because fromt he way I see it, he single-handedly accounted for about 4 or 5 wins himself. Yet at the same time find it hard to believe that his WAR will be rated all that high.
Which to me is why stats like that are somewhat “laughable”. Yet, I do understand the nature of the stat and it’s place in helping information starved fans to drool over.
TnBrian
December 1st, 2011
1:37 pm
Ya know, that offer by COL is actually insulting to Wren and Prado. Of course you don’t bid high to start out, but we’ve been reading that the Rockies are interested in getting Martin for weeks now. You’d think they’d get the picture by now that he will not be had for a platoon corner OF who isn’t nearly as versatile and not as good a hitter as MP.
DAP
December 1st, 2011
1:37 pm
abwright If one player has a significantly, consistently higher WAR than another player, you can say to some level of confidence that said player is the better performer.
i dont discount the stat, but i dont love it either. guess what? i dont need WAR to know something as obvious as mccann being better than molina. if one player destroys another in WAR, its probably bvious who is better, even without WAR.
RC
December 1st, 2011
1:43 pm
N8,
You do make a really good point about Conrad’s contributions not showing up in his WAR for 2010 (which according to Baseball Reference was 0.7 in 2010). However, when looking at those games that he helped the team win, it’s inaccurate to say he “won the game single-handedly”. He may have accounted for the biggest hit, or the most dramtic hit, but the rest of the team’s play is what got them into a position where his hit was that valuable. While the timing of his grand-slam against the Reds was phenomenal, the actual plate apperance result (a HR) wouldn’t receive any more weight from a stat like WAR than any other HR….it’s simply the circumstances in which the HR came that make it more impressive. But if he only had 1 runner on base for him, then the Braves might have lost the game.
So for part-time players WAR may not be the best indicator of what they contribute. But when comparing two full-time starters over a 6 year period? I think it does a pretty good job, especially if there is a significant gap.