7:46 pm November 18, 2011, by David O'Brien
November 29th, 201112:50 pm
Just read something about how the Braves should sell high and trade Jonny Venters
Yes. Everyone around the business seems to be viewing the Braves as a farm system for others. Sell high on the good guys, sell low on the rest. But what ever the case is, give away the team for bench players and low level minor leaguers and come back 5 years from now.
There is a point where controlling roster cost through constant trading becomes self destructive.
sure trade Venters for McCutchen straight up
November 29th, 201112:51 pm
. Everyone around the business seems to be viewing the Braves as a farm system for others…10P
except for Wren
November 29th, 201112:52 pm
We’ll see Bat… if Prado and Heyward don’t return to form, which is a possibility, then this team is in real trouble. Having Bourn for an entire season is great, but with the other guys performing so poorly with RISP, Bourn on base doesn’t help a whole lot.
If guys bounce back, the offense will be fine, even with Chipper spending 40-50 games on the DL. If those guys have a repeat performance of 2011, though, then the pressure on the pitching is going to be just as bad. With some many guys having health question marks in the rotation (JJ, Hanson, Hudson) then this team had better hope Delgado and Teheran are up to the task and ready to throw sub 3.00 ERA ball or the losses are going to mount up.
November 29th, 201112:54 pm
Just read something about how the Braves should sell high and trade Jonny Venters….sigh.
I really, really like Venters. That being said, I’d hope the Braves would consider it IF the return is good. And by good I mean a player that you’d expect to sign a 4-year, $50 million deal if he were currently on the market. Essentially, if you can get a return for Venters that is the equivalent of the contract that Papelbon just signed, then go for it.
November 29th, 201112:55 pm
Yeah, it was from the folks over at Talking Chop and then seconded by our favorite blogger on Twitter. For some reason, I’d like to keep our good players that are still 0-3. I’m not sure why I feel this way…….
November 29th, 201112:58 pm
That being said, I’d hope the Braves would consider it IF the return is good.
I get the idea, however I think he’d still hold value in a couple of years even with something like 10 million owed to him in his final two arb. years. Relievers are year to year, but I’d like to hold onto Jonny rather than to trade him for prospects.
November 29th, 201112:59 pm
twitter makes folks crazy eventually….
November 29th, 20111:00 pm
What happened to us,nolie?
November 29th, 20111:02 pm
Yeah. It’s the CAC folk by the way, not Peter…the other dude.
November 29th, 20111:13 pm
Yeah we’ll see, pretty much par for the course every year anyway. I may be one of the few people around that is not concerned about Heyward. I just don’t think a guy goes from having full plate coverage for years to a guy with a bunch of holes without health being a factor.
The best news I’ve regarding Heyward so far is that he is trimming down some. That may seem strange on its face considering he is all muscle but I think he bulked up too much. That could have effected the shoulder injury as well if you ask me.
I have a friend that used to work at my gym as a trainer, and from time to time he would juice up and get huge. I mean he was big anyway but he would become just a giant walking muscle. So when we played golf he would put all that muscle to work and then I would hit it 40 or more yards right on by his big old ass off the tee.
November 29th, 20111:22 pm
I’m still kinda worried about Heyward based on a tweet he put out a couple of weeks ago regarding going in for treatment on his shoulder… I know ST is still 3 months away, but I have my doubts about him coming to Florida and being 100%.
I have a friend that used to work at my gym as a trainer, and from time to time he would juice up and get huge. I mean he was big anyway but he would become just a giant walking muscle. So when we played golf he would put all that muscle to work and then I would hit it 40 or more yards right on by his big old ass off the tee….Bat
totally. I have said the same thing several times. stick games need whippiness on the stick for best effect. one can absolutely bulk up too much in some sports.
In my days doing any kind of weight work was frowned on for just that reason. We have learned since then that some weight work can be advantageous, but there can be too much of a good thing if not carefully controlled
November 29th, 20111:42 pm
I think we disposed of that McC rumor too quickly, it is back to being dead again
November 29th, 20111:44 pm
Bulking up didn’t seem to hurt Bonds or McGwire, though…
November 29th, 20111:51 pm
nope, nor a few others as long as they still had enough flexibility through the upper arms and torso it can be ok. different for each person the point of getting muscle-bound is
November 29th, 20111:57 pm
so not saying that the added bulk that Jason put on in a year and a half was positively the culprit, but it might have had some negative affect. slimming down caint hurt as he will still be a hulk
Dan Szymborski of The Baseball Think Factory, via ESPN.com rumor central:
“While the Braves aren’t big spenders, Beltran’s contract is unlikely to break the bank, especially given that the team already cleared $5 million in theDerek Lowe trade and no longer has to give $10 million to Nate McLouth andScott Linebrink. It might be more than the team wishes to spend, but being right on the cusp of a playoff spot and in competition with the Miami Marlins and Washington Nationals, two teams that are expected to be far more aggressive than in previous years, Atlanta can’t afford to skimp on its investment. Chipper Jones will, some year, make good on his retirement threat, and any Beltran contract will expire before the team starts owing big bucks to Freddie Freeman and Jason Heyward. Beltran, in the short term, adds a real middle-of-the-order bat to the Braves, who need to finish better than 10th in the league in scoring to keep their elite pitching from being wasted. If they had traded for Beltran last July, as had been rumored, the Braves surely would have made the playoffs and the St. Louis Cardinals would not have won the World Series.”
Makes so much sense. However, not a chance it happens. Sucks too, because I am all for a Beltran signing for th exact reasons he listed above.
November 29th, 20112:03 pm
Hello everyone! The Braves sgin Drew Sutton from Boston to the Minors,and they alos signed Of Josh Wilson from the Brewers to the minors. The Braves are hoping Sutton can play SS too.
I have no confidence in Beltran staying healthy. That’s a lot of money for a guy who likely will spend a lot of time not playing. Funny that some of the same guys who constantly complain about Chipper want to sign Beltran.
November 29th, 20112:04 pm
So when we played golf he would put all that muscle to work and then I would hit it 40 or more yards right on by his big old ass off the tee.
“It’s like a nightmare, isn’t it?”
Re Heyward and bulk, it’s easy for us to forget that his body is not yet fully mature, however odd that sounds about a guy of his size. He’s not yet at the point where he even knows what his optimum physique should be, relative to his physical tools. If he was indeed tight through the upper body last year, and then threw the shoulder problem on top of that, it’s understandable that he couldn’t get to that inner-half heater. Just have to hope that he figures out his body, and then let his talent sell out.
Bat’s right about his minor-league plate coverage, by the way. Plenty of scouting reports raved about his four-quadrant ability. I doubt he just left that on a street corner, somewhere.
November 29th, 20112:05 pm
Chipper Jones will, some year, make good on his retirement threat,
makes me question his cred
November 29th, 20112:06 pm
Josh Wilson signing looks like another Mather experiment,and Sutton signing looks like a Lucus experiment at SS. Both plyers don’t have good numbers put up with their at bats.
November 29th, 20112:09 pm
yeah most free agent minor league pickups end up of little value ward, but sometimes they can be of some help as Constanza was for a few weeks last season. Just can’t count on them too much like they seemed to do with Mather last year
November 29th, 20112:11 pm
In the article I read last night. Wren, is palnning on a veteran like player for SS. One that comes to my mind would be Edger R.from Reds.Also Wren is looking for a LF for us still.Does anyone think we could end up with a Ryan Ludwick.It has crossed my mind,ubt I hope wren doesn’t go there we need a thumper.
raleigh, count me as one who loves Chipper and would love for the Braves to sign Beltran. We then could afford to go cheap at SS, of course there is some risk of injury but worth the risk.
November 29th, 20112:12 pm
I didn’t see it as a knock on Chipper’s performance. It certainly comes up often. Payroll wise – out with 14 million, in with Beltran’s money – may be the way he sees it. Although I can’t see the team affording to pay Beltran for 2012 anyway.
November 29th, 20112:13 pm
nolie- It’s hard to see where wren might go?I wouldn’t mind Edger R. back at SS. At least he can get on base, but he is up there in age.
November 29th, 20112:15 pm
I looked on the Free Agents,and Ludwick, is cheap that’s why asked the question? Hope Wren, doesn’t go there.
November 29th, 20112:19 pm
CB – I understand your point. IF he can stay healthy, he would be a great addition. LF would also be less demanding than CF.
My point is that Chipper has averaged more games per season (career), and more importantly, 37% more games per season the past 3 years, in spite of being 5 years older…Yet many are obsessed with the fact that Chipper now only plays about 120/year.
November 29th, 20112:20 pm
Hello everyone, what’s the subject of today’s quandary?
I meant in regards to club insight. his calling it a threat that Chipper made that is hanging over the club. It was not a threat to begin with just a restatement of what had already been discussed, it was two years ago and Chipper has said any number of times since then that he intends to finish his contract.
November 29th, 20112:21 pm
I do want to think everyone for your kind words and prayers yesterday.
November 29th, 20112:22 pm
I think the odds are pretty good that Beltran could play 140 or so games per year in LF, but I understand some folk’s concern
Beltran, is talking with Boston,Ross was delclined arbitration,and Pat Burrel from the San Fran Giants.
“It’s like a nightmare, isn’t it?” _ scoots
Yep, playing golf with him was good for my ego.
November 29th, 20112:23 pm
You are welcome AT, you are still in our thoughts
November 29th, 20112:24 pm
JD. Drew could be let go? Bobby Valentine could be the Boston Red Sox new mnager?
November 29th, 20112:25 pm
Thanks nolie. It’s well appreciated.
November 29th, 20112:28 pm
I’d sure love to see FW make a play for Beltran. Again, the potential reward outweighs the risk, IMHO.
If you can’t get him, then I’d go for Cody Ross. He seems to be an every other year sort of player.
If we could get a Beltran, then I’d stick Hicks over at SS until Pastornicky is ready.
I have two friends who love to work out with the weights…fools.
one is over 6′ and 225 the other is about 5′8 and 160. Big guy can bench 400+ to start while lil’un maxes at 325 or so.
after half an hour or more of heavy work, lil’un is kicking Big Guy’s butt.
Like a quarterhorse vs a thoroughbred. Heavy muscle though originally more powerful tires much more rapidly than long ropy muscle.
Sprinters are chunky, long distance runners are stringy
It sounds like to me Beltran,will be in Boston soon.
November 29th, 20112:30 pm
above story was apropos to nothing really…….
DS1: Ross would be a good pick up for a couple of seasons,I could go with that idea. Good D in LF.
And I know that some don’t think he has anything left (and he probably doesn’t), but I’m thinking DeRosa would sign a minor league deal with ATL (he lives in ATL I believe) with a spring training invite.
Low risk sign.
November 29th, 20112:31 pm
we should sign Bonds. I bet he can still outhit anybody we got to put in LF………..
DS1: What about Edger R. return to the Braves,and then bring up Pastornicky for SS?
November 29th, 20112:33 pm
I’m thinkin’ DeRo is toast, and probly overtoasted toast at that
I bet you and I could take both your buddies………….. something about age and cunning.
Haven’t been in a fight in a LONG time, but if I ever had to, I’d fight dirty. Adams Apple, nose, toes, shins and the family jewels. Hit em quick and hard.
November 29th, 20112:34 pm
DS1- DeRosa could happen too,Wren was interested in him a couple months ago,and he was on Wrens’ list,but I think the blog would kill us for even mentioning DeRosa,and I’ll probably get hung now.
November 29th, 20112:35 pm
I still wouldn’t mind seeing us put a package of JJ, Lipka, and Hoover together to try to sway KC to move Myers and Crow. Then we could possibly package Prado and Bourn together and try to pry Jackson and either Tyler Collins or Gustavo Nunez. That would allow us to man an outfield of Myers in LF, Jackson in CF and Heyward in RF, all are very young and club controlled for several years. The savings could then be rounded back into the club at several different places, SS, Bench and Pen.
I have always thought Edgar R would make a good utility infielder; but I’m guessing his ego might not allow him to play for peanuts.
Edgar is a pretty crappy hitter the last several years and is a fence post. If we are gonna sign a 600 something SS I want some good D at least
November 29th, 20112:37 pm
Prado and Bourn together and try to pry Jackson and either Tyler Collins or Gustavo Nunez…AT
ah NO!Jackson had a sukky year
November 29th, 20112:38 pm
nolie- On tweeter I don’t tweet. Don’t get that Up Close ,and Personal. A little humor…..
November 29th, 20112:42 pm
for McCutchen the Pirates would want Teheran, Bethancourt, and Simmons.
November 29th, 20112:43 pm
if God had meant for anything other than birds to twitter and tweet, he woulda given them beaks and craws……
November 29th, 20112:44 pm
They’d want more than that. I’m thinking no less than a Texiera-like return, and probably a bit more than that.
November 29th, 20112:48 pm
How about Prado and Bourn for Jackson and Castellanos? The only thing about Jackson is his high KO rate but he does get on-base and has a lot of speed. I’d expect something closer to his first years stats. I doubt we could get Castellanos in that deal but I think it would definitely be a good thing going forward. We won’t have to worry about CF or Chipper’s replacement.. but this is just my Christmas wish list.
November 29th, 20112:49 pm
tweeter,”Because You Love Me.”Too personal. Ah…..humor doesn’t hurt…….
November 29th, 20112:50 pm
I’m thinking no less than a Texiera-like return,
Beau Jones and Matt Harrison? I’m good with that.
Teheran > Saltalamacchia, Andrus was just at AA (I think), and Feliz was in the low minors. I mean, that’s just a top-ten AAA guy, top-ten AA guy, and upside filler. I’d make that trade for McCutcheon all day.
Edgar is a pretty crappy hitter the last several years and is a fence post. If we are gonna sign a 600 something SS I want some good D at least — nolie
Agreed. One of my favorites I’ve ever covered, but he’s pretty much done.
Essentially, if you can get a return for Venters that is the equivalent of the contract that Papelbon just signed, then go for it.
So trade Venters for… Venters.
November 29th, 20112:51 pm
Oh and did I mention, both are right handed.
What did you think about the Myers and JJ packages? Would you be willing to pull that tigger?
Last night on The Hot Stove Carlos Quentin was mentioned again. Could you see a Braves trade with the White Sox too. It has crossed my mind,and would make sense to me too.
no way I am trading both Prado and Bourn for Jackson +unless the other guys is a proven MLB producer. but hey that’s JMO
November 29th, 20112:52 pm
DOB-What’s your guess on a veteran SS. Any names strike you?
November 29th, 20112:53 pm
probably not AT
November 29th, 20112:57 pm
You’d have to admit, the potential in that outfield would be outrageous with Myers 20, Jackson 24 and Heyward 22 and none of them becoming arb eligible before 2013 and free agents until 2016.
November 29th, 20112:58 pm
plus in the Myers return if we were to get Crow also, it would give us a dominate right hander opposite Venters in the late innings.
November 29th, 20113:00 pm
Beau Jones and Matt Harrison? I’m good with that
I was really surprised to see that velocity from Harrison in the playoffs. Pretty damn good for a lefty. Although his offspeed stuff didn’t look great.
Assuming the Braves ownership gave them a one-player “blank check” this offseason to sign whichever free agent they wanted, for whatever the cost, who would you spend the money on?
My initial inclination is to say Reyes, but turning down the bat of Pujols or Fielder is hard to do, unless you were certain that FF could play LF.
November 29th, 20113:01 pm
Lets say Heyward, has a great year,and puts up huge numbers.How much should the Braves sign him for if they want to keep him the following year?
November 29th, 20113:04 pm
Ward, Heyward won’t be a free agent until 2016
November 29th, 20113:05 pm
No reason for the White Sox to not finally sell. It’s been far too long for them, and their system stinks. However it’s a tricky spot because Dunn and Rios are locked in for three more seasons. Even still, I’d trade Quentin, Danks and Thorton if I could. Maybe even Floyd too – although that leaves em with Peavy, Humber, Sale, Stewart and tbd…
I’m down with your proposal. I like that OF. Let’s call Wren and tell him to make it happen. I missed what is going on in your life but whatever it is I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers. God bless.
November 29th, 2011
Tomahawkin, November 29th, 2011, 12:08 pm … “My Big Boy Gut Tells me we Bring Gonzo back on a lesser 1 year incentive laden deal and the Deal goes Down in Late Janurary…”
[Only if Gonzo were to accept such a deal. With Barmes and Carroll getting two year deals, why would you think Gonzo would get fewer years]
The Braves would only give Gonzo a lesser 1 year incentive laced deal deal due to the fact that he would serve as a 1 year stopgap until Pastornicky is ready…
was really surprised to see that velocity from Harrison in the playoffs.
You know, I always forget that Harrison actually was a top-ten prospect at the time of the Teixeira trade. Admittedly, it was pretty feeble top ten (the likes of Van Pope, Thorman, Eric Campbell, et al), but still…
In the end, he’s a serviceable major league pitcher, not a star, not a bum. But also no great loss to the Braves’ org. I guess the equivalent in a McCutcheon trade might be Spruill. But everybody knows they can’t trade my boy Zeke, LOL.
November 29th, 20113:08 pm
Hey now, hey now, don’t dream it’s over
Hey now, hey now, when the world comes in
They come, they come to build a wall between us
We know they won’t win
November 29th, 20113:10 pm
BravePack, thanks I appreciate you keeping us in your thoughts and prayers.
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind seeing that outfield myself. It would sure allow us to focus on other areas of concern without even worrying about price. Plus if we were able to grab Castellanos in the Jackson trade also, that would be a huge bonus giving us one more option for Chipper’s replacement. He looks like he could be the real deal if he continues to progress.
No reason for the White Sox to not finally sell.
Except that their division stinks, so all they need is a little luck to suddenly be in the playoffs again.
November 29th, 20113:11 pm
I guess the equivalent in a McCutcheon trade might be Spruill. But everybody knows they can’t trade my boy Zeke, LOL.
You think Zeke will miss any bats at the big league level?
November 29th, 20113:12 pm
“DOB-What’s your guess on a veteran SS. Any names strike you?”
I would guess Furcal via Free agency?…But The Braves Wont go that Route in the way he Screwed The F.O. a few years ago…I dont know if there is any interest in trading for a SS
Furcal is probably the cheapest and most economical free agent option out there (hopefully 1 year 7mill), but then again. D.O.B. pointed out a few weeks ago that Furcal hasnt played more than 120 games the past 3 seasons…
BravePack, they rushed my father to Hospice yesterday evening. He’s wasn’t doing well and they wanted to have the doctor take a look at him and see what’s going on. Still waiting to hear what they find, we’re hopeful he will be with us come Christmas.
Murph – Thanks on the Heyward issue.
November 29th, 20113:13 pm
Fair point, so perhaps they don’t sell all of their players. Still, Quentin and Danks are free agents after 2012 and I’d trade them to beef up that system. Maybe the worst collection of prospects I have ever seen.
November 29th, 20113:17 pm
Latest report on Albert. Cards expect him to return to the Cardinals.
November 29th, 20113:18 pm
Arizona D-Backs Top 10 prospects:
1. Trevor Bauer, rhp
2. Archie Bradley, rhp
3. Tyler Skaggs, lhp
4. Jarrod Parker, rhp
5. Matt Davidson, 3b/1b
6. A.J. Pollock, of
7. David Holmberg, lhp
8. Chris Owings, ss
9. Wade Miley, lhp
10. Patrick Corbin, lhp
Loaded front four. Tough call between our top 4 pitching prospects(Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado and Gilmartin) and their top 4 pitching prospects. I’ll take ours though…
November 29th, 20113:20 pm
I actually think I’d take their front 4. The difference to me is the gap between Parker and Gilmartin in terms of upside. However, our guys are consistently younger than their guys, so that might make up the gap.
November 29th, 20113:22 pm
Serious question. How much do we have to pay for a lousy offensive SS who can play decent or better defense?
2 million? 3 million? 4 million? for a year?
Why not play Hicks at 10-20% if the salary until Pastornicky is ready? Throw the money at a better outfield bat.
And I personally like Prado/Bourn/Heyward better than Myers/Jackson/Heyward.
Jackson is still a question mark who K’s a lot. And Myers is no guarantee.
Bourn is not going anywhere this year (unless we are way out of it in July). And Prado is going to bounce back.
November 29th, 20113:24 pm
And I’d still love to have Micah Owings (to be the long man and come off the bench and pinch hit).
I actually think I’d take their front 4
I’d probably take their 4 as well. Just was going with the Braves fan bias. Now, if we take out Gilmartin and include Minor..then it’s closer and I’d take ours.
November 29th, 20113:28 pm
Prado, I still don’t know about? If we have him? I’ll be Ok with it. If we trade him? I’ll be Ok. with that too.J.J. could still be traded,or kept? It doesn’t matter to me on that? I just want some kind of an improvement in SS,or LF,or a quality back up for Chipper,because we know we wont play 162 games?
November 29th, 20113:29 pm
meant to say we know Chipper wnot play 162 games.
TH… On Gonzo… Braves won’t go 2 years, but someone else will. Hence, no Gonzo in 2012.
November 29th, 20113:30 pm
AT – Sorry to hear about your dad. Thoughts and prayers are going out to you and your family.
My dad is 92 and hanging in there…but clearly in decline.
Let me preface by saying I don’t know anything about Tylor Pastornicky other than this
Why do we keep saying “when Pastornicky” is ready? It seems to me that he can hit for a little average, but doesn’t have much power, speed, or patience. He also makes a lot of errors.
November 29th, 20113:32 pm
The Braves should atleast look into what the Pirates would want for McCutchen. Talking about a special player thats good at every aspect of the game. If some how they could pull a deal off he could play LF this season and switch to CF after Bourn leaves for free agency.
The Braves did have interest in Justin Upton last offseason, bet some teams wish they would have pulled the trigger on a deal after his MVP caliber season. You have to pay for great young players that are proven.
November 29th, 20113:33 pm
I probably should have put “is ready?” in quotes.
November 29th, 20113:35 pm
Once C.J. Wilson,and Mark B. get signed. Then the Braves will be able to see where J.J.’s value is worth,and things should pick up from there?
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