7:46 pm November 18, 2011, by David O'Brien
November 28th, 201111:04 pm
OK VJ, that one was a swoooosh, I gotta admit
November 28th, 201111:05 pm
I do know that Pastornicky was clocked at 92 across the diamond in high school. Wasn’t his regular but that’s what he topped at.
cab is uncovering statistics that indicate that, when projected over the span of a 20 year career, David Wright will out-error Chipper by quite a bit…
November 28th, 201111:08 pm
I figured that’s what she was doing.
November 28th, 201111:10 pm
Except for that horrendous year (2010), I think overall Chipper’s defense has been underrated. Not too many third sackers come in on the ball as well as he does/did. Obviously, he’s slowed down a bit now.
But he ain’t as bad as some would have you believe.
And I think nolie is right, I think he committed about 5-6 hundred errors in the minors………. or thereabouts.
November 28th, 201111:12 pm
It’s certainly going to be interesting to see where FW is going with things this winter.
I really don’t have a clue (ok, jump on that one folks………..)
November 28th, 201111:14 pm
I’d be glad to, Wayne, but I’m clueless, also.
Only, Ward, really knows.
November 28th, 201111:20 pm
I do not remember that P’cola, most of what I saw were in the 87-88 range. guess I missed his best days
Thank God for Ward!
November 28th, 201111:22 pm
To be honest folks, I’ve never heard of folks talking about an infielders throwing speed before.
What speed does Gonzo rate?
Gotta run folks.
November 28th, 201111:24 pm
more than likely because he will get to a great many more balls VJ, which is why error totals are questionable and not all that useful without range info. Chipper always had limited range. In fact at one tine during his first stint at third many of the statheads considered him perhaps the worst 3rd sacker around, much like the controversy anent Jeter
November 28th, 201111:27 pm
With the Braves saying that they’re not looking for a mediocre/bad SS, not offering arb. to Gonzo, and Wren saying he’s already looking at some trades + Pastornicky probably isn’t ready on XM Radio … would you say the Braves really could be setting their sights high for a SS this offseason?
November 28th, 201111:28 pm
would you say the Braves really could be setting their sights high for a SS this offseason…AJ
I’d say absolutely not
November 28th, 201111:34 pm
nolie – just started the first episode of the new (half?) season of Leverage…
November 28th, 201111:35 pm
It was recorded at a showcase that he hit 92. That was his max.
November 28th, 201111:37 pm
yeah I saw that the beginning of the second part of season 4 was on tonight. That’s a good thing.
I watched the first half a week or so ago.
ok thanx P’c. nice to know
November 28th, 201111:40 pm
Did you like the Ellery Queen bit?
November 28th, 201111:41 pm
Last half of the last season of The Closer started back up recently too
I’ll miss it when it is gone
November 28th, 201111:43 pm
yes I did. Kinda like Castle dressing up for halloween like Mal
November 28th, 201111:45 pm
I don’t watch Castle but that is seriously awesome! Am a HUGE fan of Firefly
November 28th, 201111:46 pm
(I basically just ripped the computer away from VJ, I was so excited to read that )
November 28th, 201111:49 pm
I wouldn’t miss Castle, one of my favorite shows. In fact it has similarities to Leverage and The Mentalist in tone much of the time
November 29th, 201112:01 am
Well, Ward, wait ’til next week…
November 29th, 201112:04 am
Or, at least wait until Duke – Ohio State tomorrow – they will be tougher now with Urban Meyer coaching them…
November 29th, 201112:17 am
Time to abandon the exhilarating discussion of the last 25 minutes…
November 29th, 201112:19 am
November 29th, 201112:21 am
Not that it does me much good of late – just hoping to hang on to a good spot for the year…(then again, since DOB was right behind me last time there was a list for the year, that should not be too hard)…
November 29th, 201112:22 am
November 29th, 201112:25 am
November 29th, 201110:39 am
The blog was obviously broken overnight, LOL.
November 29th, 201110:45 am
I was afraid nolie and I had killed it…
Looks like nolie shut it down for the night, literally.
November 29th, 201110:47 am
Got sick over the weekend and thought I was still delirious from the illness and the blog universe was put on hold. Fever broke late last night and the bones aren’t aching anymore. Nasty 48 hour bug.
November 29th, 201110:49 am
I thought we were in the Twilight Zone there this morning, I always log in early to catch up and no one had spoke since midnight.
November 29th, 201110:52 am
I just figured we all got banned and DOB put us in timeout for all the ridiculous trade proposals
November 29th, 201110:53 am
Just Saw on MLBTR that The Pirates are open to dealing McCutchen…
Everyone and They Mama on here knows That I have been Lusting for McCutchen fo here for 3 years Straight…
McCutchen for Double J and A Pitching Prospect!
Do It NOW Frank Wren!!!
November 29th, 201110:55 am
I haven’t scrolled through the last few pages.
Have we traded J.J. Hoover, Joey Terdoslavich and Mycal Jones for Andrew McCutchen yet?
The Bourne Identity and McCutchen hitting 1-2 would be Sick! Plus we would have baseball’s best OF defense…
Not to emntion we make Martini a Super-Sub who can play mostly at 3rd given that Chipper cant be trusted to play no more than 120 games….
November 29th, 201110:57 am
We don’t want McCutchen, he bats left-handed
Double J and a Prospect for McCutchen makes most sense…Since the Pirates love to trade for our young pitchers…
Us Trading Charlie Morton to the Buccos is the recent case in point….
November 29th, 201110:58 am
Just in time for Christmas…
Atlanta Braves (Share of Players’ Pool: $572,992.44; value of each full share: $11,088.51) – The Braves awarded 41 full shares, a total of 10.13 partial shares and six cash awards
So with Hudson’s back surgery and all, gotta imagine that limits their willingness to trade Jurrjens, no?
November 29th, 201111:00 am
The Bravew would have to have a trade partner for Bourn before they could try for McCuteon. Not sure the Pirates would want JJ with his high arb potential and Boras agent. Lots of teams that probably match up better with Pit than the Braves.
November 29th, 201111:01 am
Jonathan Broxton to KC, I didn’t see him signing there. Kinda suprised
Good place for him to go and re-build his value
How does that make sense for the Pirates? 2 years of Jair Jurrjens and a pitching prospect for 4 years of Andrew McCutchen?
November 29th, 201111:06 am
To land McCutchen it would take at least one of our top pitching prospects, a starter now like JJ, and someone like Bethancourt to start.
November 29th, 201111:10 am
And that’s my cue to leave
November 29th, 201111:15 am
I’d want Teheran in the deal, that’s for sure….
November 29th, 201111:20 am
TnBRian – That’s all right. nolie and I understand your jealousy of our age. But don’t worry, in another decade or two you might actually acquire wisdom and circumspection too.
November 29th, 201111:22 am
Anyway, I don’t see the Pirates yet again trading one of their younger players. They should be trying to sign him to a long term deal and waiting for their great duo of starting pitching, Jameson Taillon and Gerrit Cole, to reach the bigs.
November 29th, 201111:26 am
EFrim – It was actually on XM Home Plate this morning. The pirates have said they will look at offers for McCutcheon. Likely would take one of the ree Latinos and someone (or two) like Hoover.
High OBP player with speed and power and only now entering arbitration…..They could get a lot for him.
November 29th, 201111:32 am
no, it doesnt make sense. trading for mcutchen would probably require two of our young pitchers, and some top prospects like benthencourt, simmons, pastornicky, ect.
Double J and a Prospect for McCutchen makes most sense…
you got to be kidding. No way the Pirates do that even if JJ is healthy. They could get MUCH more than that from any number of teams
“How does that make sense for the Pirates? 2 years of Jair Jurrjens and a pitching prospect for 4 years of Andrew McCutchen?”
Good Point. But If The Pirates were to trade for Double J. It would show their fanbase that they are trying to win in that weak division. Remember that the Pirates last year were in contention 2/3’s of the season. Double J as an ace for their staff plus one of our prospect pitchers for McCutchen would makes sense…even though its a crapshoot of that happening
and waiting for their great duo of starting pitching, Jameson Taillon and Gerrit Cole, to reach the bigs.
I mostly agree with that, but the possibility of adding Teheran to that group would certainly keep me from slamming the phone down.
November 29th, 201111:33 am
for 4 years of Andrew McCutchen?…Efrim
wouldn’t that be three years?
November 29th, 201111:34 am
nolie, he just missed super two and is controlled through 2015.
November 29th, 201111:35 am
I would be beyond stunned if the Pirates were seriously even considering trading McCutchen- He is their best player and is not even arb eligible until 2013.
November 29th, 201111:37 am
Yeesh. I don’t know. The conversation wouldn’t last long, if I were Huntington.
November 29th, 201111:38 am
It was actually on XM Home Plate this morning. The pirates have said they will look at offers for McCutcheon. Likely would take one of the ree Latinos and someone (or two) like Hoover.
Is that what they said on XM? One of Teheran, Vizcaino or Delgado plus a couple middling prospects like J.J. Hoover?
November 29th, 201111:40 am
Have we ever seen a player like McCutchen traded with four years until free agency and his 2.5 year resume?
November 29th, 201111:41 am
No, that’s what I said. XM Home Plate said they were entertaining offers for McCutcheon. But they’re not going to get two players of Teheran’s ranking. They’ll get one and a couple of other pieces. If not Hoover, then someone else.
November 29th, 201111:42 am
Missing super 2 still means 6 years of control, just not 4 years or arbitration doesn’t it?
He had played 3 seasons now hasn’t he?
I would be beyond stunned if the Pirates were seriously even considering trading McCutchen
It depends, really. The question is whether the FO can rebuild the team to such a point that McCutcheon makes a difference, within the time frame that McCutcheon could make a difference. If that answer is “no”, then trading him for a bounty that could both accelerate the rebuilding process and provide deeper quality at the end of that process isn’t a bad idea.
It’s not the same regime in their FO that made all the bad draft decisions. The guys there now have some chops on talent evaluation, and would be more likely to grab a mother-lode for the guy than their predecessors.
For that matter, give em Betancourt. He hasn’t done much of anything except in the AFL – trade him while people think he’s better than what he’s really shown.
November 29th, 201111:43 am
Thanks for fixing the blog DOB!
November 29th, 201111:45 am
I really don’t think the Pirates would trade McCutch anyway so really no point in getting our hopes up. So who else is out there for the OF? Any new names anyone is hearing?
One of Teheran, Vizcaino or Delgado plus a couple middling prospects like J.J. Hoover?
Now, that conversation probably doesn’t last very long, LOL.
November 29th, 201111:46 am
McCutchen is not eligible for arbitration until next winter – meaning he will have three seasons of arb. left – controlled through the 2015 season…..4 seasons of control left.
November 29th, 201111:48 am
I think that they will make more effort to move him after at least one season of arbitration rather than right now. It will take a very large return, whenever they do trade him
November 29th, 201111:49 am
If McCutchen wants want Upton got in terms of a contract, then I can’t see how that would be crippling in any way to the Pirates. I don’t see a deal being worked out. Not too many models for it, that’s for sure. I’d want 2 prospects of Teheran’s worth + 2-3 others. No reason not to ask for that and just keep the guy if you don’t get it.
McCutchen is a known quantity while Teheran is not, or at least not as much.
If Teheran would be the centerpiece of the package that could land a player like that, then I’d say it’s worth it, especially given the relative strength of the Braves pitching vs the weakness of the offense.
November 29th, 201111:51 am
I’m not sure I understand Efrim, he played 100 games his first year and had ROY votes, but that did not count toward his arbitration eligibility?
November 29th, 201111:53 am
If Teheran would be the centerpiece of the package that could land a player like that, then I’d say it’s worth it
I’d want so much more than just Teheran.
November 29th, 201111:54 am
No reason not to ask for that and just keep the guy if you don’t get it.
Absolutely. You’d want to gut somebody’s top ten prospects, at the least.
These are the kind of scenarios I like to mess with in November, LOL. The ones where the price you pay for the player is going to hurt, and you have to figure out just how much you would be willing to bleed.
I agree, it would probably take Teheran and Delgado and perhaps another like Hoover too
November 29th, 201111:55 am
Hanson pitched like 120+ innings in 2009. He isn’t eligible either and is controlled through 2015 as well. Same deal here. He didn’t make the 17% cut, and as far as I know, the new 22% cutoff doesn’t start until next year….I think.
November 29th, 201111:56 am
Call ‘em and see how they feel about polished college lefties.
November 29th, 201111:57 am
These are the kind of scenarios I like to mess with in November, LOL
Yeah….I just thought of Teheran, Vizcaino, Simmons, Bethancourt and Hoover….
I still don’t like that if I was Huntington.
Call ‘em and see how they feel about polished college lefties.
He is so getting traded in the next calendar year.
November 29th, 201111:59 am
There is no free agent to team acquisition that needs to happen more than Prince Fielder signing with the Mariners. Just my two cents on that. Heck, even Pujols back to the Cards isn’t as imperative…..okay, maybe not.
November 29th, 201112:00 pm
I seem to remember the Pirates tried to work out an extension early this season. I guess they feel like they can’t get that done if they are thinking about moving him at all, though I’m sure they would have to be absolutely blown away to trade him now as cheap as he still is.
November 29th, 201112:01 pm
Obviously, hence the “centerpiece” label… I’m sure it would take at least Teheran, Vizcaino or Delgado, plus a positional player that’s either MLB ready or close to it… maybe even more.
As someone mentioned above, it’s a “how much are you willing to bleed?” type scenario. With the number of years of team control and the obvious weakness/question marks on offense, I’d be willing to bleed some quality prospects to land McCutchen.
Teheran, Vizcaino, Bethancourt, Hoover, Pastornicky, Simmons… some combination of 3 of those players would probably at least get the Pirates to stop laughing at the Yankee’s offer and pay attention for a few minutes.
November 29th, 201112:03 pm
yeah I’d guess at least three and maybe 4 of those guys Murph, and the way the Braves value pitching, that is highly unlikely to happen even if he were to become available
November 29th, 201112:06 pm
Ever for the cheapskate Pirates trading him B4 his first year of arb is most likely not gonna happen
I doubt I would be willing to give what it would take right now if I were the GM
November 29th, 201112:08 pm
“I really don’t think the Pirates would trade McCutch anyway so really no point in getting our hopes up. So who else is out there for the OF? Any new names anyone is hearing?”
I’d Rather Stand Pat as opposing to acquiring Slop like Willingham among others…Martini is Due for a Bounceback Season…Watch!
Our biggest ? is who plays SS next year? My Big Boy Gut Tells me we Bring Gonzo back on a lesser 1 year incentive laden deal and the Deal goes Down in Late Janurary…
A rule of thumb for elite offensive performers (I don’t know if McCutcheon quite falls into that category, yet) is top-ten-prospect+lower-rated-prospect for two years of club control. The quality of the player being traded for determines how much additional filler you need for the deal; the quality of the lower-rated prospect can vary according to level and ceiling.
So, McCutcheon is already at a mega-deal, just from his years of club control (even if you dial it back a little because of his youth). I’m not sure a team such as the Braves can even make a package like that, anymore.
November 29th, 201112:09 pm
It’s a tough spot to be in if you’re Wren… kinda. I’m sure he’s gun shy after being backed into the corner and basically being forced to sign Lowe and KK to horrible deals just to try and stay competitive, and has sworn he’d never be in that position again, but the offense really needs a boost. Deal from a strength to fix a weakness or stay the course and hope for the best?
When Is your Next VIP appearance on 680AMTheFan (Hopefully on The Chuck and Chernoff Show)?
I’m Guessing on After the Winter Meetings and before X-Mas? No?
November 29th, 201112:12 pm
oh I think they can make the package, I just don’t think Wren would do so considering how much pitching he would have to give up.
November 29th, 201112:15 pm
I just don’t think Wren would do so considering how much pitching he would have to give up.
That definitely would trend against his MO, wouldn’t it?
Ashen faces, trembling lips, shaking hands, after hearing the first Pitt ask, I’m guessing.
November 29th, 201112:35 pm
if i were the pirates, i wouldnt even think about trading mcutchen until he hits arbitration, at the earliest. he is a very cheap, productive player on a struggling team. they need to keep players like that for morale of the team and fan base.
also, if i were the pirates i would be signing every player on the market i could who was looking for a 1 year deal to reestablish value. i would think the most productive thing the pirate GM can do right now, outside of drafting and developing players, is sign players like broxton, seizmore, ect., hope they have good first halfs, and trade them before the deadline for better pieces.
November 29th, 201112:36 pm
I’d want a star position prospect back if I were the Pirates. Deal based on ligaments and tendons scares me. Although that’s the way it goes, I guess. Pirates are lacking in infield hitters. Robbie Grossman, Josh Bell, Starling Marte are outfielders and Tony Sanchez is a catcher.
Tomahawkin, November 29th, 2011, 12:08 pm … “My Big Boy Gut Tells me we Bring Gonzo back on a lesser 1 year incentive laden deal and the Deal goes Down in Late Janurary…”
Only if Gonzo were to accept such a deal. With Barmes and Carroll getting two year deals, why would you think Gonzo would get fewer years?
Phillies and Mets are both going to need SS if they don’t resign Rollins and Reyes. Neither of those clubs (I suspect) has one-two prospects coming up through the ranks, so they’re going to need to make a multi-year offer to someone.
November 29th, 201112:39 pm
Scoots- “It depends, really. The question is whether the FO can rebuild the team to such a point that McCutcheon makes a difference, within the time frame that McCutcheon could make a difference. If that answer is “no”, then trading him for a bounty that could both accelerate the rebuilding process and provide deeper quality at the end of that process isn’t a bad idea.”
Now that has to be one of the most well-reasoned posts I’ve read in quite some time. Child’s play for Scoots though.
November 29th, 201112:40 pm
Colts fired defensive coordinator Larry Coyer.
Yeah, how about firing Bill Polian for not being able to bring talent to that side of the ball? Cover 2 with “fast” small people isn’t the 2011 NFL.
November 29th, 201112:44 pm
, but the offense really needs a boost. Deal from a strength to fix a weakness or stay the course and hope for the best? Murph
Maybe its just me but I don’t see the Braves offense, sans A Gone, as a weakness. I recall talk last spring that the Braves could, hell maybe should, be an 800+ run team. Bourn will be there all next year and playing for a contract. I don’t see the problem.
November 29th, 201112:45 pm
Just read something about how the Braves should sell high and trade Jonny Venters….sigh.
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