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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
5,033 comments Add your comment
jed
November 27th, 2011
7:08 pm
key largo– check his stats for ‘09 & ‘10. he hit .307 those seasons, had 15 hr’s in ‘10. injury-free, he should continue to improve so i dont think 20 hrs is overly optimistic. you’re basing your opinions on last season, where he was out for a month with a staph infection. as for “29 GMs” not wanting him? that’s laughably wrong.
jed
November 27th, 2011
7:10 pm
agreed on the doubles, nolie
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:10 pm
Here’s a little perspective-check I thought of a moment ago:
A lot of people on the blog keep talking about trading JJ for a “majors-ready” prospect. I.e., a AAA stud / ready to break out AAA player. Well… isn’t that what Pastornicky is? Should we be thinking a lot about trading for something that we already have?
Also, if we’ve got Pastornicky coming up and possibly taking over midseason or at the beginning of the season, do you really think that Wren would look to obtain another young 20ish player in the OF? That would give us at least 4 regulars in the starting lineup in their early 20s. I just don’t see it happening, especially given DOB’s assertion a couple of weeks ago that the Braves aren’t thrilled about having 3 young guys in the regular 8.
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
7:14 pm
as for “29 GMs” not wanting him? that’s laughably wrong.
Nobody said anything about 29 GM’s not wanting him. What I said was that there seem to be 29 GM’s that don’t agree with your outrageous claim that you wouldn’t be surprised if Prado exceeds 300/20/80.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:14 pm
Good Grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TYLER PASTORNICKY is NOWHERE near ready for SS, and will not be the SS in 2012… Frank Wren has already stated this FACT!
Folk just stop, you are bleating for someone who is nothing more than a 2b and a middle of the road 2b at best!
nolie
November 27th, 2011
7:15 pm
I don’t think all that many evaluators see Tyler as a stud, especially those not tied to the Braves org
George
November 27th, 2011
7:18 pm
nolie
Both books I ordered from abe books were in very good condition I got two very early Pelecanos books I had not read. He is Washingtons James Lee Burke.
jed
November 27th, 2011
7:19 pm
five more HRs from a hitter like prado isnt an outrageous expectation. i genuinely believe his best years are to come. that’s from watching him since he was in richmond.
George
November 27th, 2011
7:21 pm
I am really worryed about our SS position.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:21 pm
nolie….THANK YOU!!! hoppin turkey feathers some folks just have the hardest dang heads!
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:22 pm
Okay – maybe Tyler’s not a stud. Very few MLB SS prospects are really “studs,” right? But I think he’s a highly regarded prospect, rated as an majors-level talent. The guys I’ve seen mentioned as returns on trading JJ (realistically) are *not* bigtime talents. They’re like career 4th OFs. Surely Pastornicky rates about the same as a 4th OF–better, actually, because of the position he plays.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:22 pm
The right deal will pop up for Wren, or he won’t deal… simple as that! if he can’t get the deal he will sign the ilk of Willingham, and put Prado back in the utility role! and go with Ronny Cedeno.
jed
November 27th, 2011
7:23 pm
hoppin turkey feathers!
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
7:23 pm
The people who are big fans of Tyler see him as a solid-average regular at SS in the bigs. I don’t think there is anyone who thinks he’ll be a star. Maybe one or two people whose opinions haven’t ever been written…., but analysis I’ve read has talked about him a solid regular, at best.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:24 pm
My guess is Nunez/Romine/Williams for jj, and Cunningham
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:24 pm
I still think that Wren may end up trading one of our SP prospects that an opposing GM brings up in conversations about trading JJ. I think that’s where the Braves could actually get solid majors-ready OF prospect or established OF in a contract year or near-contract year (like Bourne).
nolie
November 27th, 2011
7:26 pm
good to hear George, I glad they were in good shape
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
7:26 pm
Padres and now the Mariners acquire back up catchers. I’ve always liked Jaso.
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:26 pm
Thanks, Efrim.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:27 pm
Efrim, maybe they do, but until some of these folk travel to Gwinnett and actually watch this kid, they should stop pining for a middling slightly above average 2b to play gold glove SS for the Braves, it is entirely unfair to expect this kid to play SS in 2012, 22 years old at the high pressure position, aint no way in HELL Wren is even considering that!
nolie
November 27th, 2011
7:28 pm
I will be a bit surprised if Frank trades one of the big three, prolly not Beachy or Minor either this year.
but you never know, depends on what another GM offers
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
7:29 pm
Nunez/Romine/Williams for jj, and Cunningham
Why Romine? And the presence of Pastornicky and Simmons lessens the need for a long term SS, even if Nunez could play multiple positions in the future – he doesn’t profile as a regular in the outfield or third base.
VaBravesFan
November 27th, 2011
7:30 pm
I’m only mentioning SeaBass cause of the estimated price it would have been if he accepted. Tons of infielders are getting 2 year deals. We could have landed a draft choice, if not a great defensive SS with good pop for a good price compared to other players.
George
November 27th, 2011
7:31 pm
l
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
7:33 pm
I will be a bit surprised if Frank trades one of the big three, prolly not Beachy or Minor either this year.
I’d be downright shocked if they traded Beachy or Teheran. Pretty surprised if they traded Minor or Delgado. Mildly surprised if they traded Vizcaino.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:34 pm
I have seen JJ,Prado, Hoover,even Heyward all over the place on various boards, some of the most ignorant trade posts I have ever seen…
If JJ had finished the season,he would garner a higher package, however most GM’s are qorried about that knee to an extent, then again it is just a knee to some, it all boils down to how badly does the other GM want JJ, and does he think the knee is ok now.
As it stands, JJ is worth Alonso/Cozart from Cinn… the aforementioned package from NYY, Thames/Hechavvaria from Tor, or Aybar/Bourjos from LAA.
That is the actual worth of JJ. nothing more, nothing less.
Alonso would be a nice bat but he hits LH, and plays a porous LF.so no go on Cinn.
Thames is intriguing but where is the power?
Myself I am calling LAA, maybe Kendrys Morales/Aybar, depending on how good Morales is in LF.
nolie
November 27th, 2011
7:34 pm
the Braves have been burned several times now by offering arb, I don’t think they will be doing that all that much for the most part.
George
November 27th, 2011
7:34 pm
looking at DOB tweets, did I miss something? Have they added a second WC team? I know they were talking about it.
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:35 pm
JoeBrave:
Why do you keep saying Pastornikcy is a 2B? I just looked up his stats and he’s only played 30 out of 389 games at 2B. The rest have been at SS. You make it sound like the Braves are making him change positions, which isn’t true.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:35 pm
Nunez, because he takes Prado’s spot as utility he can play 3b, ss, and OF.
nolie
November 27th, 2011
7:36 pm
I’m not all that big on Nunez
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:36 pm
Zing, go watch the kid play and get back to me… until then unless you have done as I have you can quote stats all you want, but this kid is a 2b, see Marcus Giles!
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:39 pm
Efrim, guess who is up for an extension after this year…… Brian McCann, that’s why Romine. I know they have Bethancourt, and from what I saw of him he is a Baller for sure, but until he actually pushes wouldn’t hurt to have another option.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:40 pm
Beachy, Teheran, Delgado,Vizcaino are damn near untouchable! if not positively untouchable!
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:41 pm
If Wren could get, say, a Mike Trout for Minor, Delgado, or Vizcaino, would you be surprised, Efrim? I wouldn’t.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:41 pm
nolie I know you aren’t that crazy about Nunez, but who wuld you rather have Ronny Cedeno, or Nunez?
Zing
November 27th, 2011
7:42 pm
JoeB: Haven’t seen him play–I’ll check him out in ST. He really looks that bad? I couldn’t imagine seeing Marcus Giles field SS… ugh.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:44 pm
I would also proceed with caution on Tim Wheeler as well, 33 bombs this year, but the other stops ehhhh..BLECH!
George
November 27th, 2011
7:46 pm
George
November 27th, 2011
7:34 pm
looking at DOB tweets, did I miss something? Have they added a second WC team? I know they were talking about it.
******************************************************
Does anyone here have the answer to the above post?
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:46 pm
Zing, He has good range, a nice slightly above average AAA bat, but that throwing arm! not exactly Blauser over there at SS
TnBrian
November 27th, 2011
7:50 pm
Morales would be huge. He looks kinda like a late bloomer and was having another good year until his injury. It’d take a lot to get him. Why would they trade him anyways. Aybar they might and I like him too.
George
November 27th, 2011
7:50 pm
Guess not, good night y’all.
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
7:54 pm
guess who is up for an extension after this year…… Brian McCann, that’s why Romine.
I think they’ll extend McCann. No need to trade Jair Jurrjens for a future backup and utility infielder.
Beachy, Teheran, Delgado,Vizcaino are damn near untouchable! if not positively untouchable!
If they see Vizcaino as a reliever, he is absolutely not “untouchable”, imo.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:54 pm
TnBrian, LAA might move him, they now have a logjam at 1B, but would JJ fetch Morales, and could Morales play LF? that would be the elephant in the room.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:57 pm
Efrim, 90% sure Mac gets an extension, but me I am trading him, before he gets there, catchers age in a hurry, and skills erode quickly. If I am GM I am doing it this year, but that’s just me.
I like Mac, but he has more value to this team, and others right now.I am not not a fan of allowing guys to reach 10 and 5 status. remember how quickly Andruw fell off? Think of the package a cathcer in his Prime is fetching!
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
7:58 pm
Vizcaino, I see as a closer, and a damn good one.
TnBrian
November 27th, 2011
7:58 pm
JJ isn’t worth Morales. Switch hitter who can mash like him is a tough find. He can also scoop ‘em at 1st from what I remember. Whether he’d play there or not with us, Angels will value him as a total package I would think.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
8:01 pm
Right you are TnB
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
8:02 pm
I can see Miami matching up for Morales, maybe Washington! I suspect Pujols returns to St.L, and Fielder winds up in Chicago.
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
8:03 pm
Vizcaino, I see as a closer, and a damn good one.
I like him too and he should be a great part of the pen in 2012. However, if that’s his long term role, than I think you can make an argument that Delgado and Minor have more value, because the team clearly sees them as starters.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:04 pm
Hello everyone! Don’t get your hopes up.Wren will not trade anyone unless the package is right,and we still haven’t heard anything over the weekend,so speculation, all that we are hearing,and we won’t know until tomorrow,or 3rd possible maybe the 6th,or if ever?Wren might not do a thing. There is nothing going on,and it’s quiet.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:09 pm
I heard Wren, could be doing something big,and it hasn’t been done yet.Half dozen trade offers,and no deals yet. That should say something.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
8:10 pm
Oh! Good Grief! GM’s are traveling to be with family for the Holiday, sure nothing is happening, and we all know it is quiet! next week it picks up big time! this coming from someone, that has pegged Pastornicky as starting SS, when Wren has publicly stated otherwise! gimme a break!
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
8:11 pm
I hear he wants Eduardo Nunez and has for 2 years now! I also hear that he wants Montero, Banuelos, and Williams for JJ and Prado! but that ain’t happening!
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:12 pm
We shall see if it’s all hype are not?
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:14 pm
I’ve heard nothing all weekend,and the Yanks signed Garcia,so the deal could be dead,as far,as we know. I don’t think much will happen now.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
8:18 pm
Seems Boston, LAA, Rangers, KC, Detroit, Minnesota, among others need pitching too.
maybe
Boston:
JJ
Prado
Atlanta
Doubront
Middlebrooks
Iglesias…
How would that work for ya?
TnBrian
November 27th, 2011
8:18 pm
Ward, I know. All our hopes and dreams rest in the hands of Wren. Man, you’re making me nervous. Let’s take a deep breath together and we’ll get though it. I promise!
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
8:20 pm
Enter Bryce Brentz in that group of names from Boston as well
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:20 pm
Don’t get your hopes up.Wren, can’t make a deal yet.I’ll believe it when I see something happening? If anything happens?
TnBrian
November 27th, 2011
8:21 pm
Ward, WHAT? But I thought … you said though not long ago that we were close. WTF! Well, keep them coming. I need this info. WE need this information!
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:22 pm
TnBrian – I’m just keeping it cool. All weak I’ve been reading deals that were never made last week.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:24 pm
TnBrian- We were close,and now I don’t know. After the Yanks signed Garcia,and seeing the Braves shopping their pitchers again on the trade rumors. I think we are back to square one.
Efrim
November 27th, 2011
8:26 pm
How would that work for ya?
Not good. Not good at all.
McFann O O o
November 27th, 2011
8:27 pm
JoeBrave If I am GM I am doing it this year, but that’s just me.
Yes, it is just you…
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:29 pm
Last night I was poking around the Yanks site,and read that they might be planning to sign a veteran pitcher at low cost signing. That’s when reality hit me again,and now I’m baffled.
Zing
November 27th, 2011
8:31 pm
If JJ’s trade value is low because of injury right now, Wren should just hang onto him. What has he got to lose? If JJ has a good season and doesn’t get hurt, he can trade him for high value at the end of 2012– not to mention the fact that the Braves get another quality season from him. If he does get hurt or stinks (the latter being a low-probability event based on his history), nothing changes. Trade high now or trade high later.
The question becomes: the Braves have a surfeit of good quality SPs. If other GMs won’t take JJ, then the Braves HAVE to look at trading one of the prospects in my opinion–for good value, of course.
Powderfinger
November 27th, 2011
8:38 pm
This is going to be one fascinating off-season, as there are so many different directions that Wren could go in retooling this team. It feels like we are so close, yet so far. Personally, I’m beginning to believe that outfield power is the way to go. But at the expense of what???
jed
November 27th, 2011
8:42 pm
zing–i’m w/you on trading high on JJ. he was cy young caliber first half last year. if he stays healthy, expect more of the same. i would not trade him at lower value.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:45 pm
We wont know until tomorrow until the Gm’s comes back,but the Yanks made a good move.From what I’m reading all the SS are drying up in the Market,as well.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
8:50 pm
I know DeJesus wont be signing with A’s,and Josh Willingham probably wont sign with the A’s either,and Several teams are interested in Cuddyer.No news on the Braves.
Zing
November 27th, 2011
8:50 pm
Jed — right. I don’t understand some of these comments about trading JJ for a mediocre OF. Ridiculous.
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
8:58 pm
Many of you are counting on a new and upgraded Martin Prado. I hope he comes back as well but his power is a concern to me. I’ve noticed a dramatic decline in his HR’s per at bat and how are they explained.
First in the minors he pretty much was on very low output and had 2153 PA – 15 HR – for one HR every 144 PA’s. Next we’ll take his early pro MLB numbers.
Prado had 365 PA and 3 HR’S FOR 1 HR EVERY 122 PA’s
And we have the last 3 years when Prado was playing. 1744 PA’s, 39 HR’s for a HR every 45 AB’s.
How many feel comfortable with it?? How many feel there is something not quiet right with this? How many feel that HGH might be involved?
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:04 pm
zing–for some reason, people on this blog have a tendency to underrate some of our players. JJ and prado, in particular. see keylargo, above.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
9:06 pm
Prado is a solid player,but that is all he will be. I would like him sto stay,and play LF,but he had a bad year with injuries,and I’m half ,and half on that one. If Wren, can get a good LF with Power,and Speed. I would be Ok. with a trade.I would like Wren to try like hell to get an out fielder,but if he can’t? I say then we give Prado a shot.
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:06 pm
he hit 15 HRs in 2010, keylargo. he had a staph infection that caused him to miss a month of 2011, and he still hit 13 hrs. why the need to jump to HGH? you still wanting kelly johnson at 2b?
Ward
November 27th, 2011
9:09 pm
Prado, is just anvaverage,and overated. If he does stay I would like him to impove,and show me that he has what it takes.Doesn’t matter to me if Prado stays,or not?
Ward
November 27th, 2011
9:10 pm
Meant to say Prado is an average player,and the stats show.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
9:11 pm
15 homers isaverage for a player.
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:17 pm
well, if ward says so, i stand corrected.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
9:18 pm
Prado on steroids? It crossed my mind,but I highly doubt it, that he was juiced up.
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
9:18 pm
JED – I hate to discuss specifics with someone who never backs up their stats or projects what they can do by stats from the past. You think he’s going to hit 20 plus, put it up. Just cause you got that feeling wont work unless you have numbeers supported by a recognized source. You have nothing..
nolie
November 27th, 2011
9:22 pm
I’ll take a lights out closer over a back of the rotation pitcher every day. might even take a lights out set up man over a mediocre starter
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:23 pm
says he who speculates that prado is on HGH for no apparent reason.
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
9:23 pm
Me, I think it’s fishy the first two sections of his career he has 144 ab’s per HR and then 122 ab’s per HR. then he gets to the majors with larger parks and far better pithching, Prado drops to a HR every 45 ab’s. It’s just not going to pass the smell test.
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:25 pm
you’re not passing the smell test, keylargo.
nolie
November 27th, 2011
9:28 pm
How many feel comfortable with it?? How many feel there is something not quiet right with this? How many feel that HGH might be involved?…KL
I don’t much care how many homers he hits, that’s not his strength anyway. he just hit 13 in a bad year so 15-17 is not much of a push if he stays healthy..I’m much more interested in him getting his BA back up around 290
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
9:29 pm
If you don’t know anything about baseballl it wont take long for the rest of it to come out after this Mongoloid effort you’re making tonightt. Too stupid to quit.
tiger297
November 27th, 2011
9:31 pm
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/tix/2723076156.html
how bad do you want SEC championship tickets…me not so much
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:31 pm
the only mongoloid effort going on is your attempts to type something legible.
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
9:31 pm
Tell me again Jed about how much better Jack Wilson is than AGon. I help you did yourself a little deeper.
Ward
November 27th, 2011
9:32 pm
It has crossed my mind to keep Prado, just to see what he can do in a full season in LF.I would like him to hit 25 homers and pile up 88 RBI,s. Yet in the back of my mind I don’t think he will get there.Tough one to call in my books.
nolie
November 27th, 2011
9:34 pm
I don’t buy HGH for a minute. I watched this kid in person all through the minors and pushed him here when he was in AAA. Never heard a bad word from teammates or coaches about him, or any hint at all of illegal substances. He has exceeded my expectations a bit with three 800 years, but I expect him to bounce back this year
jed
November 27th, 2011
9:35 pm
seriously, if you dont see how someone who hits 15 HRs at age 26, then misses a month of the next season and hits 13 hr’s, could hit 20 hr’s the following season at age 29, then what’s the point of explaining?
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
9:37 pm
Somebody that makes two statements That Jack Wilson is much better defensively than AGon and back to back with Prado will hit over 300/20/80 pretty much is an idiot.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
9:37 pm
Prado will never sniff 25 hr in a season, that is not his forte. What Martin Praso is, is an All-Star 2b playing out of position, and his overall numbers are reflective of that.
this numbers are great at 2b, not so great from a production position like LF. Much ado over nothing there!
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
9:38 pm
oops, meant Martin Prado!
nolie
November 27th, 2011
9:39 pm
well i’m not sold on 20 but i don’t really care either
keyLargo
November 27th, 2011
9:39 pm
Come Jed (Or was it Jughead) back up those Wilson stats where he’s better than Agon. COme on JUGHEAD and show me what makes you feel martin will hit 300/20/80. I want to not think of you as a dumb ass but it’s tough not to.
JoeBrave
November 27th, 2011
9:39 pm
And really Prado and HGH should never be utilized in the same sentence.