Wren: Must be sure trades strengthen Braves

A year ago, the Braves made the first big trade of the 2010 offseason by dealing for Dan Uggla at the mid-November general managers meetings, where usually there is more groundwork done for trades later in the winter than actual trades completed.

Prado had a subpar season after missing more than a month with a staph infection. The 2010 All-Star second baseman was moved to left field in '11 to accomodate Dan Uggla.

Prado had a subpar season after missing more than a month with a staph infection. The 2010 All-Star second baseman was moved to left field in '11 to accomodate Dan Uggla.

Then there was a rumor two weeks ago that spread quickly, a rumor that the Braves might be willing to trade pitcher Jair Jurrjens and left fielder Martin Prado in order to free up cash to pursue a shortstop and power-hitting outfielder.

Couple those two situations — the Uggla trade of Nov. 16, 2010 and the Jurrjens/Prado rumors of the past couple of weeks – and it was understandable that Braves fans were braced for a trade or two to go down at the GM meetings this past week in Milwaukee.

Then no trade happened.

No trade even came close to happening, despite leaked reports that the Braves were talking to the Rockies about a possible Prado deal, to the Tigers about a possible Prado trade, to the Red about a potential Jurrjens swap….

“I think it’s interesting that our name came up, a lot of talk about us and our players,” said Braves GM Frank Wren, who was never quoted about any of those players, as he stuck to the policy he’s employed in recent years of not addressing rumors, discussing specific players or updating the status of potential deals except in unusual circumstances.

“But the reality is that we did have a lot of discussions, primarily feeling clubs out — we had calls and this gave us a chance to delve a little deeper into what their thoughts are and how we might match up. But I didn’t feel like there was a lot of momentum to get things done at these meetings.”

Wren felt as if teams were still in the early stages of figuring out what trades or signings might best suit their teams, and said the pending collective bargaining agreement might have had something to do with that.

Until late last week there had been speculation that the new CBA could have changes that affect draft-pick compensation for free agents, possibly eliminating first-round pick compensation for all but the elite players who sign with other teams.

Some teams also will wait to see which ranked free agents will be offered arbitration before the deadline Wednesday (Nov. 23). Some players might not be offered arb, in which case a signing team wouldn’t have to give up a draft pick.

Anyway, getting back to the Braves and the possibility of a deal or deals involving Prado and Jurrjens. It’s clear they don’t feel any great need to trade either of them, not like the urgency that Wren felt to dump part of Derek Lowe’s salary in order to clear up whatever payroll he could and open a rotation spot for a younger pitcher.

Some suggested the Braves were actively shopping Prado and Jurrjens. But the Braves say they’ve taken calls from teams interested in their players, rather than making calls to see if anyone wanted to deal. There’s a difference.

“I think that [Prado and Jurrjens trade possibility] was wrongly characterized from the very beginning,” Wren said. “What we said and what we stand by is that we’re looking to get better, and however we can get better we will. We’re open minded. We’ll listen if somebody calls.

The Braves have enough pitching depth to fill a potentially strong rotation without Jurrjens, but trading the veteran could leave them with an alarmingly young rotation if Tommy Hanson doesn't stay healthy.

The Braves have enough pitching depth to fill a potentially strong rotation without Jurrjens, but trading the veteran could leave them with an alarmingly young rotation if Tommy Hanson doesn't stay healthy.

“People like our players.Yes, teams have called but it’s a situation where we do like our team, we do like where we are, and you have to be careful that when you take away from it to improve it, that it really turns out that way.”

Wren traded Lowe to Cleveland on Oct. 31, the Braves agreeing to pay $10 million of the $15 million he’s owed in 2012 in the last year of a four-year, $60 million contract.

It’s the most the Braves have ever eaten in order to get rid of a player, and in 2011 the only team that paid as much as $10 million to one player not on its roster was the Angels, who paid $11.4 million to Gary Matthews Jr.

The Braves are expected to have a payroll in the low-$90 million range in 2012, up perhaps a few million bucks from 2011. My calculations show they’ve got less than $10 mill to spend as of today, probably closer to $5 mill, taking into account raises for arb-eligibles Jurrjens, Prado, Michael Bourn and Eric O’Flaherty, as well as Brian McCann’s raise from $6.5 mill to $11.5 mill.

By the way, some of the projections I’ve seen reported for the Braves’ 2012 payroll have McCann’s salary at $8.5 million. That was the base salary for the final guaranteed season of his six-year contract, but McCann maxed out on all the escalators tied to Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers and All-Star appearances, pushing the salary to $11.5 million. (There’s a $12 million club option for 2013 with a $500,000 buyout.)

The Braves haven’t approached McCann about a potential contract extension yet, nor have they begun extension talks with Bourn, who’s eligible for free agency after the 2012 season. The Braves don’t typically begin such discussions until the beginning of the new year.

“There’s an order that most clubs go through, and right now its trying to acquire players who will add to your team,” Wren said. “Once you get past that phase, you start looking at [the contracts of] players on your current team.

The Braves haven’t said what they’ll do with arb-eligible reliever Peter Moylan, who is recovering from shoulder surgery and could be out until midseason. He might command about $2 million if offered arbitration.

♣ So, getting back to the Braves’ needs: Wren said after the season ended that finding a shortstop and an outfielder were the priorities, and those plus some bench strength still are what the Braves are looking for.

They were never going to trade Prado straight up for Colorado outfielder Seth Smith or Tigers left fielder Delmon Young, two names connected with the Braves at the GM meetings.

However, I still think they’ll consider a deal with the Rockies if they could get Smith along with a solid center-field prospect. So far Colorado has so far refused to include 23-year-old Tim Wheeler, who hit .287 with 33 homers and a .900 OPS last season in 138 games for Double-A Tulsa.

Rockies outfielder Seth Smith has killed right-handed pitching, even away from Coors Field. Braves might bite on a trade if they could get Rockies to include a center field prospect.

Rockies outfielder Seth Smith has killed right-handed pitching, even away from Coors Field. Braves might bite on a trade if they could get Rockies to include a center field prospect.

While they won’t say it publicly, the Braves know it won’t be easy to re-sign center fielder Bourn, a Scott Boras client, to an long-term extension before he’s eligible for free agency next winter. Boras is already talking about Bourn in terms of him being a rare center fielder in this day and age with the speed teams are again craving, plus Gold Glove defense.

Boras will be looking for well into eight figures annually in a long-term deal for Bourn.

The Braves don’t have a center fielder far enough along to step in a year from now, so if they could get one like Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon from the Rockies — Blackmon is a former Georgia Tech standout and a converted pitcher who hit .337 with 10 homers and 49 RBIs in 58 games in Triple-A before a promotion to the majors, then a broken foot –  plus get a player such as first-time-arb guy Smith, a corner outfielder who could help them next season and beyond, that’s a deal I don’t think they could or would pass up for Prado.

Even though Smith is another left-handed hitter and the Braves would prefer a right-hander, I think if they got Smith they could use Matt Diaz against a lot of lefties and have Smith do his thing against righties.

Smith struggles against lefties – just .202 with four homers and a .588 OPS in 213 career at-bats – but kills righties at a career clip of .290 with 47 homers and an .882 OPS in 1,072 at-bats.

Diaz has a .328 career average with 29 homers and an .873 OPS in 868 at-bats against lefties.

As much as Prado has been an integral part of the clubhouse, a tireless worker and great teammate who was an All-Star second baseman in 2010, the fact is the Braves have Uggla at second base, Prado’s best position.

Consider this overall comparison of the past three seasons for Seth Smith and Prado: Those were the first three full major league seasons for Smith, who hit .275 with 136 extra-base hits (47 homers), 127 walks, 166 RBIs and a .346 OBP and .487 slugging percentage (.833 OPS) in 1,169 at-bats.

Prado in that same span hit .291 with 148 extra-base hits (39 homers), 110 walks, 172 RBIs and a .336 OBP and .435 slugging (.771 OPS) in 1,600 at-bats.

Smith had 431 fewer at-bats than Prado in three years but had more homers, walks and RBIs than Prado and only 12 fewer extra-base hits.

While Smith’s career statistics are significantly better at hitter-friendly Coors Field (like all Rockies hitters), his .750 career OPS on the road is better than Prado’s .745 career road OPS.

Smith has 20 homers and a .418 slugging percentage in 677 road at-bats, while Prado has 23 homers and a .412 slugging percentage in 994 road at-bats.

Granted that’s not much of a difference, but keep in mind many Colorado hitters have traditionally struggled mightily in road games because of the differences from the hitting environment they get acclimated to at home.

Smith is a .296 career hitter with a .925 OPS in 235 games at Coors Field.

In his third season in 2011, the 28-year-old Smith narrowed the home/road disparity quite a bit, batting .285 with nine homers and an .848 OPS in 71 games at Coors Field and .283 with six homers and an .817 OPS in 75 road games.

He’s hit 15 or more homers in three consecutive seasons, doing so in fewer than 400 plate appearances in 2009 and again in 2010. He had a career-high 533 plate appearances in 2011 and hit .284 with a .347 OBP, 32 doubles, nine triples and 15 homers.

What about shortstop? The Braves made a run at infielder Jamey Carroll, but the Braves didn’t want to commit to a multi-year contract for a player who’ll be 38 in February. He signed a two-year, $6.5 million contract with Minnesota, which is expected to start him at shortstop.

The Braves could try to trade for a veteran player with an expiring contract or sign an aging veteran who’ll take a one-year deal, but they don’t want to commit to a multi-year contract because they’ve got shortstop prospect Tyler Pastornicky, 21, who could be ready to take over the position at some point in 2012, and behind him Andrelton Simmons, 22, a sensational defensive shortstop who won the Carolina League batting title at high-A Lynchburg.

The Braves would like to have a bridge to shortstop Tyler Pastornicky, who could stand a little more seasoning in Triple-A. But they'll start him Opening Day if they need to.

The Braves would like to have a bridge to shortstop Tyler Pastornicky, who could stand a little more seasoning in Triple-A. But they'll start him Opening Day if they need to.

If the Braves can’t get a veteran to be an affordable season (or half-season) bridge to Pastornicky, they could go to spring training with him penciled in for the Opening Day shortstop job and then scramble to find a replacement in the spring if it became apparent Pastrornicky might not be ready. That’s not the ideal scenario, but Pastornicky showed enough in Double-A and briefly in Triple-A (before hurting an ankle) to give the Braves enough confidence that he could keep his head above water if thrust into the starting role right away.

It’s unclear if the Braves would consider Alex Gonzalez on a one-year contract in the event that Gonzalez doesn’t get any multi-year offers. Gonzo, who’ll be 35 in February, was a defensive whiz last season but finished with an atrocious .270 OBP and .642 OPS.

♣ Prado, Jurrjens don’t have to be moved: Unlike for Lowe, the Braves will demand high value in return for either Prado or Jurrjens. They aren’t looking to dump salary and won’t take anything less than a strong return in any potential trade.

“We didn’t envision a role for Derek that was going to utlize his ability,” Wren said. “Finding a trade partner worked out for both clubs.”

But now that Lowe is gone, Wren said, “We’re not in a position where we’re trying to cut payroll or move a particular player. Some of those things have been written and are not accurate we’re looking to put the best team on the field.”

Word out of the GM meetings was that the Braves are demanding so much for Jurrjens that a deal might be unlikely unless they come down in their multi-player/prospect asking price or some teams get desperate for starting pitching later in the offseason.

From the Braves’ perspective, it’s understandable they’d want a return similar to what the Royals got for Zack Greinke. Jurrjens is young (26 in January), affordable (second-year arb, likely to make about $5 million), and had a sub-3.00 ERAs in two of the past three seasons.

However, other teams could be reluctant to meet the Braves’ asking price because of a few factors:  Jurrjens has ended each of the past two seasons with knee injuries; he’s represented by Boras and could thus be difficult to retain beyond 2013; and he has less than overpowering stuff, leading some skeptics to suggest he’ll never be a true ace.

The Braves would trade Jurrjens for the right price, because they have enough pitching depth to still put together a potentially strong rotation without him in 2012. At the same time there is some reluctance to deal him when Tommy Hanson is coming off a shoulder injury and several other potential starters are so young (Mike Minor, Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado).

They also have Kris Medlen and rookie Arodys Vizcaino, but the Braves would prefer to have the versatile Medlen and flamethrowing Vizcaino in the bullpen to begin the ’12 season. Medlen, who returned at the end of the 2011 season from Tommy John elbow surgery, has the versatililty to move to the rotation at any point, if necessary.

♣ Etc. Right fielder Jason Heyward hasn’t begun his workouts yet with the new hitting coaches, but that’s expected to happen soon.

The Braves decided against asking Heyward to play winter ball once they hired ex-White Sox hitting coach Greg Walker to replace fired hitting coach Larry Parrish, and also hired Scott Fletcher in a new assistant hitting coach position.

Walker and Fletcher both live in Georgia and will spend time in Atlanta this winter working out with Braves hitters, with Heyward a special emphasis after he struggled with a sore shoulder and swing flaws in his second season after a terrific rookie year.

Wren said the Braves wanted Walker to be involved in the decision about Heyward this winter and what would be the best way to go about getting him ready for the 2012 season.

♣ OK, I had some more stuff about some Braves prospects including Arizona Fall League guys, but this thing is too long already and I want to get it posted without further delay. We’ll come back with some of that in a blog next week.

Let’s close this with a classic from the mighty Husker Du, this off the Candle Apple Grey album. You can hear it by clicking here, and you definitely should. What an incredible band it was.

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“SORRY SOMEHOW” by Husker Du

Time heals, time goes on and time really flies
Time hurts and time can cut you, cut you down to size
There’s no need to touch you now, no, I’m doing fine
Life too can cut you and I’ve cut you out of mine

You’re making me…
Sorry, sorry somehow
Sorry, sorry somehow

There’s no need to talk to you, well to know what’s on your mind
There’s no need to see you either, no, I’m just being kind
You want me to beg forgiveness, tender an apology
It’s not my fault and you’re not getting one from me

Now I guess it’s your decision now you decide
Take me to the cleaners baby, take me for a ride
Who ever cares for your affairs will sort it out for you
Send me a subpoena baby tell me what to do

I don’t have to think about you, think about the past
Those days stand out in my mind and those days were the last
I know the time is coming and I’m waiting for the day
I’d give you everything in the world just to get it out of the way

– David O’Brien, Braves/MIB blog

5,034 comments Add your comment

nolie

November 18th, 2011
7:50 pm

where everybody be?

Venice Jim

November 18th, 2011
7:51 pm

Right here, nolie!

flange1

November 18th, 2011
7:52 pm

Thanks for the new blog DOB!

McFann O O o

November 18th, 2011
7:57 pm

Thanks for the new Blog, Chief.

The Braves haven’t approached McCann about a potential contract extension yet

Well…what are they waiting for?… :cool:

nolie

November 18th, 2011
7:59 pm

his .750 career OPS on the road is better than Prado’s .745 career road OPS…DOB

you are kidding, right? that is all but statistically meaningless

so is the 110 to 108 OPS+

Brave New World

November 18th, 2011
8:01 pm

A new blog – now we’re talking turkey.

nolie

November 18th, 2011
8:02 pm

Gobble, gobble

JT Grace

November 18th, 2011
8:03 pm

I would be very reluctant to trade Prado for Seth Smith and Charlie Blackmon. Blackmon is left-handed and has never been anything more than a C prospect – Smith is a platoon left fielder with limited versatility. I don’t think the Braves match up with the Rockies at all, unless the Braves send a pitching prospect or Jurrjens along with Prado to get Nolan Arenado.

JoshTown

November 18th, 2011
8:06 pm

Nice DOB! Thanks for the updates!

shawn

November 18th, 2011
8:08 pm

Thanks Dave for the Blog..

Bob the Blogger

November 18th, 2011
8:11 pm

Think of how valuable Prado is to the Braves. Now imagine Chipper, Uggla, Heyward or Freeman going on the DL for an extended period of time. Now how valuable is Prado – especially in light of the other options at those positions?

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

November 18th, 2011
8:14 pm

Excellent stuff O’Brien.

Frank Wren has a lot of work to do yet.

bbua

November 18th, 2011
8:15 pm

Like most Braves fans I don’t want to see Prado traded. However if we could get Smith and Wheeler or Blackmon I think we should do it. It’s doubtful we will resign Bourn and next year we will be looking for a CF. This trade would resolve that issue and Smith would be a serviceable LF.

I would like for the Braves to expand the trade to include Chris Nelson of the Rockies, he is a ss but can play 3b and 2b. He could assume Prado’s position at backing up Chipper and could back up the ss position. He had good numbers in AAA but they fail off when called up to the Rockies. He is also a Georgia boy having played HS ball in Decatur. Not sure what the Rockies would ask for to include him in the trade. This trade could resolve our future CF problem, provide an adequate LF and back up to the 3b and ss position.

Any thoughts.

bruce

November 18th, 2011
8:17 pm

Is Pastornicky’s glove ready? If so, seems like letting his bat mature in live action would not be worse than Gonzo’s bat

ray

November 18th, 2011
8:20 pm

Braves love to trade for guys they know they can’t keep. Bourn is the latest one after Drew and Teixeira, trade 4 prospects for 1 1/2 yrs. Phils gave up better prospects to Houston for Pence but 1.he’s a better player 2. has 1 more yr left than Bourn and 3. will likely sign an extension with Phils and stay many more years.
some people never learn. even rats figure out a maze at some point.

nolie

November 18th, 2011
8:22 pm

get ray some cheese guys……..

Coach (2011 Fredi G. FAILED)

November 18th, 2011
8:22 pm

As for the Seth Smith/Tim Wheeler combo for Martin Prado……

Well hell, I would settle for Dexter Fowler/Tim Wheeler and call it a good trade. Fowler’s a much better athlete with a higher overall ceiling, and he’s three years younger than Seth Smith.

jch

November 18th, 2011
8:28 pm

BBQ recommendation: DOB, or anyone else for that matter, if you make it to Sarasota this winter or in Spring Training you need to hit Nancy’s BBQ – it’s amazing! For years she’s only catered which she’s done for our family when we’re in town on many occasions. Last year she opened a brick ‘n’ mortar place in downtown and it’s fantastic. Get the Brisket, you won’t be sorry! Nothing in Atlanta is even close…

nolie

November 18th, 2011
8:31 pm

Sarasota huh? might hafta run up and try that

nolie

November 18th, 2011
8:34 pm

if they won’t trade Smith and Wheeler they sure ainta gonna trade Fowler and Wheeler :P

nolie

November 18th, 2011
8:41 pm

kinda quiet even with the new blog

jch

November 18th, 2011
8:41 pm

Nolie, you won’t be sorry. Not sure how for “up” there is, but it’s worth it…

nolie

November 18th, 2011
8:42 pm

50-60 miles. I pass once in a while on theway to St Pete

bbua

November 18th, 2011
8:42 pm

I agree let’s get Fowler and Wheeler and call it a day. Unfortunately it ain’t happening, they are not trading Fowler.

jch

November 18th, 2011
8:44 pm

Google Nancy’s BBQ for address. I know it’s on Pineapple St/Rd downtown…

Laughing Jack (OUT LOUD)

November 18th, 2011
8:45 pm

Nice to read some current Braves news, DOB. Thanks, your efforts are appreciated. One of the things I like about our Braves origanization is their patience. Everything in it’s time. Step by step, Frank gets it done.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
8:46 pm

WTH! sure Wren is complacent, and happy with a parttime starter? JJ…TRADE HIM!!!!!!!

Greene Hornet

November 18th, 2011
8:46 pm

The Braves are in a good position where if they make the right decision they will be a very strong contender in 2012. Even with the team the way it is, they are likely to make a playoff push. I just hope all the players, but moreover, the pitchers can stay healthy. I have always wondered, though, if Prado could ever play SS? I know it is not the same as 2B and plays different, but it is closer to being 2B than LF is and if Chipper goes down, we still have versaility in some ways with Prado still on the roster. Maybe that will make the search for a LF easier. I don’t know…just asking.

Either way, I support Wren and the team! I just hope we can find the right fits and the current roster can hit better than last year.

Count Chocula

November 18th, 2011
8:47 pm

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN
More on Swisher: There are teams interested in dealing for him.

Trade for Swisher,period

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
8:48 pm

bruce….UH! no Pastornicky is not ready, will not be ready, and will probably go the way of Lillybritches, and Schafer….included in a TRADE.

Bat Masterson

November 18th, 2011
8:49 pm

Good read DOB, thanks.

McCann maxed out on all the escalators tied to Gold Gloves, Silver Sluggers and All-Star appearances, pushing the salary to $11.5 million.

How did Heap max those out? What was the combination? I mean, yeah 9 out of a possible 15 works for me, but I haven’t seen an explanation anywhere.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
8:49 pm

and now the Prado to short crapola comes up again!

BravesFanLostInOH

November 18th, 2011
8:50 pm

I think you meant Jurrjens here:
However, other teams could be reluctant to meet the Braves’ asking price because of a few factors: Prado has ended each of the past two seasons with knee injuries; he’s represented by Boras and could thus be difficult to retain beyond 2013; and he has less than overpowering stuff, leading some skeptics to suggest he’ll never be a true ace.

jch

November 18th, 2011
8:51 pm

Sounds like JoeBrave is trying to stir the pot a little this evening….

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
8:52 pm

Please please please be rational, insert name other than Prado, and Pastornicky on the back of the Braves Shortstop Jersey!

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
8:54 pm

jch, no! it has been hashed and re-hashed, and to the point of regurgitation about Prado, and Pastornicky at SS for the Braves this year. Prado cannot play ss he is worthless there, and there isn’t any way in hell Pastornicky is sniffing ss for the Braves before 2013 if he even remains, Most likley given the track record of Wren, when it comes to over-hyped prospects, TRADED, seems his destiny.

jch

November 18th, 2011
8:57 pm

keep the pot boiling Joe…

Venice Jim

November 18th, 2011
8:58 pm

JJ…TRADE HIM!!!!!!!

Trade for Swisher,period

Trying to bring the fans together…

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
8:59 pm

believe I will when it comes to those two… :)
Redundant! if you get my drift.
hell I would rather see Craig Counsell at SS than Prado.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:00 pm

VJ, how are ya man? cold here in tha GA Mountains!

Ralph

November 18th, 2011
9:00 pm

I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, 2013 is the year of the Braves, lucky if they get any higher than 4th in 2012 behind the Phils, Marlins and Nats in that order. They must rid themselves of Chipper, Lowe, Hudsons payroll (almost half the team) before they can go after a 3rd baseman and outfielder. 2013 will also be the year that all our young players will be ready for the big show.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:01 pm

Ralph? really? How bout just Bourn /Jurrjens to LAA for Trumbo/Aybar/Cowart

Venice Jim

November 18th, 2011
9:03 pm

JoeBrave – seasonably temperate here in Southern California…

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:03 pm

could easily pick Cincy off for Francisco/Cozart for Jurrjens, sounds like 2 good 3b spects to me.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:04 pm

how is cab tonite VJ? hope the pooch is good as well.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:05 pm

if not for tickin McFann off, I would suggest McCann/Prado to Yankees for Montero, Romine,Nunez,Banuelos

Venice Jim

November 18th, 2011
9:07 pm

Everyone here is well – I’ve had most of the day off, which is a rarity for me these days (not that I’m complaining about working 4 or 5 hours most days…

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:07 pm

I haven’t seen anyone seriously suggesting Prado at SS – at least anyone with any sense… As for Pasto, who knows, maybe by mid-year he’ll be ready but I agree, not now. He does deserve an invite to Disney in the spring to try to earn the spot.

I think we’ll end up with a 1 year rental until Pasto is ready

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:07 pm

lol 17 hours a day still for me there VJ, 7 days a week

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:10 pm

What’s the general consensus on Prado taking Chipper’s job in ‘13? I’m not sold on this plan… There was a definite drop off defensively when Prado spelled Chipper last season and we’re talking about an OLD Chipper he dropped of from…

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:10 pm

jch, which is why I suggest Aybar, 1 year deal, and draft pick afterward, depending on the cba.
just grinds my gears to keep seeing Prado/Pastornicky in every damn post, seems like it would sink in after while.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:11 pm

jch, my consensus is NO! would rather the team acquire a 3B with pop, I like Prado, but not at 3B…….

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:13 pm

Joe, I’d say we’re pretty much in agreement…

I just wish they’d kept Lowe; now who’s going to start opening day????

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:13 pm

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:14 pm

4 targets I would press for
Arenado
Castellanos
Francisco
Laird…
another would be Trumbo for 3b, he had a terrible obp, but damn what a masher.

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:15 pm

Joe, I’m guessing you’d agree then Prado is expendable. I love is work ethic and what he brings to the clubhouse but I don’t see anywhere to put him. The only question is when and for whom.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:15 pm

My guess for the opener Tim Hudson, I don’t expect JJ to be here, have a feeling Cincy is going to cave.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:17 pm

Tigers/colorado/bosox one of those will get him. Wren will get good value.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:19 pm

Prado is an all-star at 2B only….not enough production at LF, some apologists would say it was staph, maybe , maybe not , I would say playing out of position along with an ailing leg caused his slip, or maybe he just peaked, and is now regressing to the norm. either way a 5 mill sub is not happening in Atlanta.

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:20 pm

JB – I’m assuming you caught the sarcasm in the Lowe comment…

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:22 pm

2 years ago it was blasphemy if I said ol big ears Lillybritches was a bust, welllll…..then I said Schafer would never cut it….and was lambasted..well Cheech Schafer is now in Houston., believe this, Tyler Pastornicky is in the same category.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:23 pm

Yes I did, Lowe should never have had that spot to begin with….

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:24 pm

Chatting with people that don’t ride the straps of guys like Francouer,Schafer,Lillibridge,and the like, is a pleasure jch.

Husker Du Too

November 18th, 2011
9:25 pm

Eight miles high on the huskerdu reference

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:26 pm

JB, is there a top tier SS out there on the trade market we could package Prado and Pasto for to get us through to Simmons???

TnBrian

November 18th, 2011
9:29 pm

DOB, nice blog, man. Very good

What I get from Wren here is that both Prado and JJ will be traded. He said it in so many words without actually saying it.

JJ to Reds makes sense for both sides. JJ is right he is gettig groundballs. Groundball pitcher in their park is a must. Somebody on their side I’d hope they stay way clear of is Stubbs. Poor hitter, but fast and a good fielder. Hope they wouldn’t be tempted by his speed/fielding. He sucks at everything else.

BBraves

November 18th, 2011
9:29 pm

Sure hope the Braves do not sign some washed up relivers like last year. The players the Braves have in the system is better than some middle reliver they can sign as a free agent. Keep Prado and trade JJ is they can get a decent return. I like JJ but he just can make it through a whole year without injury.

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:29 pm

However, I’m a bit apprehensive to see us trade away SS prospects considering BOTH of the starting SS in the World Series are Braves prospects… Does make you wonder!!!

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:30 pm

No, not both guys not at all.
I would consider Lowrie, Cozart, Aybar,Nunez, one guy intrigues me most, Reid Brignac… had a purely miserable year, and not his m.o. maybe Prado for Brignac/Zobrist

TnBrian

November 18th, 2011
9:30 pm

To finish my post, Reds to have some intersting prospects. Heisy is interesting too.

garynpohio

November 18th, 2011
9:31 pm

wonder what we could have got for JJ when he was hot last season

ncgary

November 18th, 2011
9:33 pm

i think the only way prado plays short would be for 1 game
if no backup is on the roster and an injury occurs

jch

November 18th, 2011
9:35 pm

Prado has proven he needs to be at 2B – and deserves an everyday job there. I hope he gets it through a solid trade for the Braves

BRAVOS4EVER

November 18th, 2011
9:37 pm

DOB; How about a discussion about the expanded playoffs and the Astros moving to the AL, the Stohs have always been easy pickings for the Braves. Personally I hate the idea of more teams in the finals, makes the regular season needless as almost everybody gets in ala the NHL NBA.

Efrim

November 18th, 2011
9:43 pm

DOB, awesome blog man. Really good stuff throughout and a great read. Filled my hot stove craving.

McFann O O o

November 18th, 2011
9:45 pm

Bat M. How did Heap max those out?

I was kinda wondering what that meant, too…

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:50 pm

McFann O O o
November 18th, 2011
9:45 pm

Bat M. How did Heap max those out?

I was kinda wondering what that meant, too…

He ate all the Dunkin Doughnuts two days in a row…. LMBO

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:52 pm

Mac reminds me of the fat kid in the school lunchroom that steals all the rolls, from the other student’s plates.

ncgary

November 18th, 2011
9:53 pm

all the all star selections silver sluggers and gold gloves earned hin an extra 3 million next year

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:54 pm

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:55 pm

Baaaabay, here I am
Imma man upon yo scene.
I can give ya what you want but you got to come home with me.
I sho got some good ol lovin
and I got some more in store.
when I get to thrown it on ya
you come runnin back for more!

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:56 pm

Pretty lil girls go down by the dozen
that aint nuthin but small time lovin
Heyyyy lil thang let lite yo candle
cause mama I’m sho hard to handle

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
9:57 pm

Hey….Yo Frank Wren, go get Ben Zobrist!!! there be your left fielder

Frank Wren

November 18th, 2011
10:00 pm

Hey….Yo Frank Wren, go get Ben Zobrist!!! there be your left fielder

Done! Whew…I’m glad I read the blog today. Else way I wouldn’t know what to do!

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:03 pm

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:04 pm

FW, bout time you listened to me!!! :)

Bat Masterson

November 18th, 2011
10:11 pm

all the all star selections silver sluggers and gold gloves earned hin an extra 3 million next year _ ncgary

What Gold Gloves would those be?

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:11 pm

If you build it Frank they will come!

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:12 pm

Could be Holding you tonight
oughtta quit doin wrong, start doing right.

Frank Wren

November 18th, 2011
10:13 pm

Any other trade suggestions? While I’m here?

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:13 pm

You don’t care about what I think.
I think I’ll just stay here and drink.
Hey puttin’ you down don’t square no deal.
Least you know the way I feel.
Take all the money in the bank.
Think ‘ll just stay here and drink.

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:15 pm

Yes Trade McCann/Hanson for a package of Montero/Gardner/Nunez/Banuelos/Romine… PLease

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:15 pm

Listen close and you can hear,
That loud jukebox playin’ in my ear.
Ain’t no woman gonna change the way I think.
Think ‘ll just stay here and drink

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:16 pm

Hurtin’ me now don’t mean a thing.
Since lovin’ you, don’t feel no pain.
My mind ain’t nothin’ but a total blank.
I think I’ll just stay here and drink, yeah

ncgary

November 18th, 2011
10:16 pm

the ones that helped max out his contract that he didn’t need and did’t get. lol

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:17 pm

Well, I cant sell my momma short on loving me
I guess that’s why she let me go so far
Momma always stopped me short of stealing
I guess thats why I had to steal that car.

She told me not to smoke it
But I did and it took me far away
And I turned out to be
The only hell mama ever raised.

I pulled into Atlanta, stolen tags and almost out of gas
I had to get some money, and lately I’d learned how to get it fast
Those neon lights was calling me and somehow I had to get downtown
I reached into the glovebox, another liquor store went down.

Chorus:
And I sing “Precious Memories,” take me back to the good ol’ days
I can hear my momma singing, “Rock of Ages” cleft for me
She tried to turn me on to Jesus, but I turned on to the devil’s ways
And I turned out to be the only hell my moma ever raised.

When they put those handcuffs on me, Lord how I fought to resist
But that agent clamped ‘em tighter, ’til that metal bit into my wrist
They took my boots and my billfold, my fingerprints, and the profile of my face
Then they locked away the only hell my moma ever ever raised.

Chorus:
And I sing “Precious Memories,” take me back to the good ol’ days
I can hear my momma singing, “Rock of Ages” cleft for me
She tried to turn me on to Jesus, but I turned on to the devil’s ways
And I turned out to be the only hell my moma ever raised.

ncgary

November 18th, 2011
10:18 pm

as mcfann would say jeeesh what sticklers

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:19 pm

Ol Joe drankin tonite, lol not really, just drankin music

JoeBrave

November 18th, 2011
10:21 pm

Johnny Paycheck::::::::::::::::::

Well, I can’t recall, one time in my life,
I’ve felt as lonely as I do tonight.
I feel like I could lay down, and get up no more,
It’s the damndest feelin’; I never felt it before.

Tonight I feel like an old violin,
Soon to be put away and never played again.
Don’t ask me why I feel like this, hell, I can’t say.
I only wish this feelin’ would just go away.

I guess it’s ‘cos the truth,
Is the hardest thing I ever faced.
‘Cos you can’t change the truth,
In the slightest way. I tried.
[ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/j/johnny_paycheck/old_violin.html ]
So I asked myself,
I said: ‘John, where do you go from here?’
Then like a damned fool,
I turned around and looked in the mirror.

And there I saw, an old violin.
Soon to be put away and never played again.

So one more time, just to be sure,
I said: ‘John, where in the hell do you go from here?’
You know that when a nickel’s worth of beer,
When I looked in the mirror, that’s when I knew.

That there I was seein’, an old violin.
Soon to be put away, and never played again.

And just like that, it hit me,
That old violin and I were just alike.
We’d give our all to music,
And soon, we’ll give our life.

Bat Masterson

November 18th, 2011
10:22 pm

the ones that helped max out his contract that he didn’t need and did’t get. lol

Oh, those gold gloves.

I guess the 200K per award guess was off base.

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