Braves prez Schuerholz pitches “Murph” for HOF

I hope he is elected because he deserves it. Murph is what’s right about baseball and is a true ambassador of the game.

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Nick Paste acts like he was cheated or he has a vote..

Just be thankful for the info and go away..

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Dale Murphy should most definately be in the HOF

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The Murph is a class act and absolutely was one of the dominant players of his era. It would be a travesty if he is not a member of the Hall one day.

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Dave, Can you post the stats pages too?

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Murph’s numbers are not quite Hall of Fame on their own, but he was an MVP 2 X’s playing for some truly dreadful teams. He and Mike Schmidt were the dominant NL power hitters of their day. Most compelling argument for Murph as a Hall of Famer: If candidates with better stats are barred from entry to The Hall because of questionable integrity and character (i.e. Rose, Sosa, Clemens, etc.), than conversely, the Hall should put extra weight on a player of exceptional character like Dale Murphy who represented all that is decent and honorable in baseball. GO MURPH!

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Very nice.

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Class act on behalf of one of the classiest men ever to play professional sports.

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Don,

“The Hall already has far too many members who were good, popular, or both. It needs to be much more exclusive.”

I would agree that the Hall should be much more exclusive, but it’s exactly because it’s NOT that Murphy absolutely should be there. Peak-wise, he was the best player in the league multiple years. Career-wise, his numbers are impressive if you scrape away the comparative numbers of all the roid users.

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If they’ll put Jim Rice and Ryne Sandberg in, then Murphy should be there by default. Rice had Dwight Evans and Wade Boggs around him in the lineup, Sandberg had Andre Dawson and Mark Grace, and Murphy had Dion James and Ken Oberkfell.

That he wasn’t walked 200 times a year is a miracle.

btw, that letter would have been useful about 10 years ago.

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I hope he gets in because he is one of my all time favorite Braves and put up some great stats for many years despite playing for some miserable Braves teams. But even better, Dale is a person of the highest character – an asset to Atlanta and to society in general (not like so many of today’s ‘prima donna’ pro athletes who are a detriment to society).
I really can’t differ with those who argue that his career stats don’t quite measure up. But he is definitely in my all time HOF.

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def in the “nothing but class” HOF..

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DOB, I know that 400 hrs is sort of a majic number, but how do his stats compare to others in the Hall? I think he should be there, but what do I know!? His career avg seems a bit low, but

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Classy thing to do. Probably won’t work but still good.

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Spot on Hoosier Aaron. I agree completely.

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Murph deserves this more than a lot of self promoting player such as, let’s see: GARY CARTER — who basically kissed more butt to be elected than anybody will ever truly know!
Andre Dawson was never a better player than Murph – maybe they were very close in every way that they played. Compare Dawson and Murphy and tell me that Murph doesn’t belong in the HoF.
Dale Murphy CARRIED this team – if the Braves had not have had Murphy and Phil Neikro, (Bob Horner gets an nood here too!) The Braves would never have won 60 games in a season!

Let’s give the man his due! He’ll never ask or seek promotion for this – he let his bat, glove, speed, and FAITH speak for him!1

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Dale Murphy exemplifies everything that is right about sports! Here’s hoping the Murph gets his just due into the Baseball Hall of Fame!!! Regardless you will always bea HOF in my book Murph!

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@Bob the Blogger, I almost agree with you except that Ryne Sandberg is a no-doubt Hall of Famer because of the position he played. But yeah, a few years ago I though Murphy was a borderline candidate and while I wanted to see him in for sentimental reasons, I understood why many may see him as just short. However, with the elections of Rice and Dawson the bar has been lowered, and sufficiently lowered such that Murphy should be inducted. He was a better player than either of those two, and this revisionist history of how Rice was “feared” or Dawson was paid to drive in runs, not get on base, makes that no less true. That said, while I can’t think of a rationale for leaving Murphy out of the current Hall, lowering the bar is something the voters should strive not to do.

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Dale Murphy was the face of the Braves the first year I began watching them regularly; it was 1982 and on Channel 17, WTBS. He was not only arguably the best position player in the game at that point (and certainly in the Top Five), but as has been stated MANY times since, carried himself professionally and humbly. He was a class act both on and off the field.

The detractors who tend not to place him in the same company as his contemporary Andre Dawson (who entered the HOF last year) point to his lifetime batting average, his high strikeout totals, and the fact that his dominant years weren’t quite as many in number. Some factors they forget to consider, I believe, are that Dale Murphy played on a lot of Braves teams (especially 1985 and afterward) where he had NO ONE around him in the batting order who posed nearly the same threat. Without that protection he didn’t get nearly as many good pitches to hit as he did in the often great summer days of 1982-84. Sadly he missed the initial Miracle Season of 1991 and the ones that followed after injuries and a trade (to the now-hated Phillies!) ended his Braves career. It would’ve been awesome if it’d been Murph running the bases instead of, say, Lonnie Smith in Game 7 in the Metrodome wouldn’t it? One has to wonder if the results would have turned out differently.

The other factor I think Major League Baseball should consider is Dale Murphy’s aforementioned character. We’re living in a generation that has disenchanted many fans withe grossly overpaid players, players with no loyalty to any team beyond how much money they’re offered, character issues from drugs and steroids to outright criminal behavior. The Grand Old Game needs an image change in many regards. A step toward that would be inducting Dale Murphy into the Hall of Fame, because whatever statistical categories he may have fallen short of eligibility to some folks (and where he did he was usually VERY close), his CHARACTER should serve to make up the difference. Acknowledging and rewarding such character would go a long way toward reestablishing the priorities and ideals that made so many of us fall in love with baseball in the first place (namely team, loyalty, character, professionalism).

Murph gets my vote, for whatever that’s worth.

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The 1981 player’s strike cost Murphy the chance at 400 HRs and a chance in the HOF.

The 1994 player’s strike cost Fred McGriff the chance at 500 HRs. I hope it doesn’t cost him a chance at the HOF, too.

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@extremus, the Lonnie Smith trek was/is painful but he also homered in 3 straight games in that series. Without the offense, where 2 of the games were decided by one run, there may not have been a game 7. As for Murphy, forget batting average. His on-base percentage was .346. Dawson’s was .323. I believe Dawson’s is the lowest of any corner outfielder in the Hall of Fame. Again, not arguing for Dawson’s exclusion but if he’s in then Murphy is in too.

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I wish Dale Murphy and Hank Aaron could both do a “Field of Dreams” and return to their youth and dominance. Boy, THAT would sure end the Braves’ current outfield woes in a hurry, wouldn’t it?

And while you’re at it, give Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz a sip from the Fountain of Youth (and save some for Chipper, I might add). Instant dynasty.

Ah, it’s fun to dream sometimes, if only for a momentary diversion…

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All of you who are calling for his election, look at his baseball reference page. he had 6 very good seasons and a few other decent seasons…that’s not a HOF’er.

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If you want to use a saber number to compare players Murphy stands up better compared to Rice in WAR, though not as well as Dawson. Just glancing at players around his number, he’s just behind Puckett, who is in, and Berkman, who probably would get some support today. He’s just ahead of Vizquel, who will probably also get some support, Hack Wilson, who is in, and Jose Canseco, who strongly supports his own candidacy.

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@extremus, I got what you were saying. Just pointing out you can’t really remove the bad without the good. But actually, you know Lonnie Smith wasn’t even supposed to be the guy that year even with Murph gone. It was supposed to be Otis Nixon but a funny thing happened on his way to October……

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@njbraves, I don’t disagree with you and I still don’t have a major problem, objectively speaking, of Murphy not getting into the Hall. But the lack of support he gets relative to recently elected contemporaries like Dawson, and especially Rice, doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Of course, opening the door to more of the “very good” is probably not what a lot of us want but with the current elections the voters have moved towards a Big Hall. I don’t like the Big Hall idea myself but a Big Hall includes Murphy.

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It’s a very tough call. There is something to be said for not allowing anyone in who makes the HOF worse…. and I fear Murph does that.. (he was my favorite player as a kid too…)

However, his last 6 years really hurt him. If it was the Hall of the Very Godd I think he gets in, but I don’t think using the excuse that others got in who might not should have (Rice,Dawson,Carter) as a reason to include Murphy is not valid… (you forget that when he retired Sandberg was one of the all time leaders in nearly every 2nd base offensive category).

I loved the Murph, but his career got derailed by injuries too soon.

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DOB,

Nothing to do with Dale Murphy, but with the reports online of Terry Francona not coaching in 2012 do you think that the Braves would look at him if Freddi has a horrible 2012 season?

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Glad to see the Braves do this — long overdue in my view. It is outrageous that the HOF voters snub Murphy as they have. He should at least be knocking on the door vice shunned to the infernal regions. That his vote tally declined over the years is more a product of overly restrictive voting rules. But, the steroids era should have polished his resume as he did it honest.

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Dale Murphey was the best player for sevral years in all of baseball. Among my favorite Braves.

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If Murph had played for Boston he would have had 500 HRS when you consider the lineup the Red Sox had in the late 70s and 80s.

Instead he played on some horrific Braves’ teams and had to carry them.

Having said that Murph was an All-time Braves’ great, but not a Cooperstown inductee. His career numbers are not good enough.

Put your team loyalty aside for a minute and study the numbers !

Just because he was a nice guy doesn’t mean he’s a Hall of Famer !

The HOF includes drunks, druggies, a murderer and a cast of other characters.

Babe Ruth used to go to the local brothel before a game.

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There should be no Baseball Hall of Fame if Dale Murphy is not in it.

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I date porno chicks. Do you think that may hurt my chances of getting in the HOF some day?

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Dale Murphy & Roger Maris are the only two back-to-back MVP’s not in the HOF. Murphy’s stats outweigh Maris’ by a sizable margin. The comparison to Puckett is certainly interesting. Puckett’s eye problems caused him to retire, so the six bad years at the end of his career that Murphy had were not played by Puckett, so his numbers artificially look better because he didn’t have a decline phase which would have probably dropped his rate stats. At his best, Murph was as good as most HOF’ers. I agree with those who say he is borderline, and also agree with those who say that a borderline candidate with his character gets a push into the Hall.

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I hate to bust the bubble over Dale Murphy becoming a HALL of Fame’er. Murphy is only a Hall of Fame’er in the hearts and minds of the Atlanta Braves fans . His baseball stats doesn’t pan out he was a over achievement .

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Yes, he was Mr. Brave, after Hank left! He deserves the Hall of Fame…! Go Braves!!!

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urban redneck……………….GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!! CAN’T BEAT THAT!!!

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All of these guys with gaudy numbers and padded lifetime stats were never considered to be the best in the game. Johnny Damon is closing in on 3000 hits and Jim Thome hit 600 homers but neither of them have ever been considered to be even in the top 5 at their positions at any given time and look where they placed in MVP voting. Look at where he ranks in offensive stats for the 1980’s. It’s as if the decade never happened. Jim Rice and Andre Dawson were never discussed as being the best player in the game. Two time NL MVP who refused to stick around long enough to get the 400 dingers that used to get you in the hall. I believe at the time Murphy retired that Dave Kingman was the only non-HOFer with 400+. Don’t tell me about the numbers. He was elite.

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Murphy deserves election, but it’s almost certain to be the Veteran’s Committee route.

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Those who want to compare Murphy’s offensive numbers to say they do not merit HOF election, precisely whom are you comparing them to?

Perhaps the only power hitter with better numbers in that era was Mike Schmidt and he was elected. Andre Dawson’s numbers are barely better in some areas. Unless you are prepared to maintain that only the best hitter of a decade can get into the Hall of Fame (and that flies in the face of the facts based on who’s in today), then to say Murphy’s numbers don’t merit election are wrong.

His numbers don’t compare favorably to the steroid era of offensive baseball, which also benefitted from expansion with AAA or AA caliber pitchers on whom the best hitters of the 90’s and 2000’s feasted on. OK, if that’s the yardstick, then take out George Brett’s and Tony Gwinn’s plaques. Because compared to players from the turn of the century who routinely hit .400, these two didn’t put up averages and on base numbers that would warrant consideration!

That would, of course, be stupid! But, the point is that during the 80’s, Murphy played in multi-purpose stadiums that were enormous, with walls pushed out to 385 in the power alleys and 410 or more to center field. Even down the lines was routinely 335. Further, many had wall over ten foot in height, such as in the Astrodome or Jack Murphy in San Diego. Even Candlestick had its walls pushed out further than they were when it was closed for baseball. In the 90’s, the offensive emphasis caused all these stadiums to bring in their walls, or even build new shorter and closer ones, but Murphy was already retired by then and did not benefit.

Put Murphy in today’s stadiums, even without steroids and HGH, and he would have blasted through the 400 HR mark and likely flirted with 500, at which point even by today’s skewed standards, he would already have his plaque at Cooperstown. His home stadium was named the “Launching Pad,” but the walls were even moved out during his era and made higher than they were when Henry Aaron played, and they were considered short by the standards of most 80’s era stadiums.

The simple and unalterable truth to any HOF career is one yardstick: how did this player compare to his peers? Using that only acceptable yardstick, Murphy does not merely compare, he excels! His numbers during those six monster seasons were not merely “very good” as a few feeble praises here have maintained. They were the very best of those seasons! The very best! And the very best, people, is a heck of sight better than merely “very good!”

Additionally, he earned multiple Gold Gloves in centerfield. He stole bases. He led the team. He exemplified the highest of integrity and goodwill for the sport. Pete Rose is outside the HOF because his character violated the integrity of the game. Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, and Rafael Palmero are all out, and likely will stay out, because their character violated the integrity of the game. How then can it withstand objective and logical analysis to say impeccable and stalwart character that represented the best of the game does not merit any consideration!

Stop looking at numbers without context of the era they were compiled. There was an era in baseball where if your ERA was not 2.50 or lower, you were an average pitcher! There was an era where a .400 batting average with a .600 OBA was required in order to be an “above average” hitter. Want to know why Ted Williams’ .402 season did not earn him MVP? It was because as late as that era, a .400 season average was not considered anything but a remarkably good year, but not elite! Writers and fans needed only look back but a few years to find higher season averages. But, a 52-game hitting streak was record setting, and hence Joe DiMaggio was widely elected for the MVP that year. Ask writers from that era who voted, and they didn’t even think it a close contest! They’d look at you like you were stupid if you even questioned their votes, or asked them if it was a hard choice to make!

Today, hitting .400 for a season would re-write the baseball records in terms of press coverage. In truth, Roger Maris may deserve more consideration for HOF than he got. Frankly, the Baseball HOF has always been widely too stingy, far more selective than the HOF’s for basketball, football, and hockey. If you don’t believe me, check out the truth of it for yourself.

But, for a career, Maris’ numbers don’t come close to matching Murphy’s. But, more importantly, despite the two MVP seasons, Maris’ numbers were not even the best of his decade. No one can make an argument to say Dale Murphy was not one of the elite baseball players of his generation — his numbers say that without question he was one of the very best players of his generation, among the two or three best, in fact.

His sole misfortunes were to play for a team outside of media-saturated NYC plus also to end his career and compete for HOF votes when the steroids era re-wrote the concept of what it took to have a remarkable offensive season. Finally, one has to admit that he put up those elite numbers of his generation despite having to practically carry his teams on his solitary back, surrounded by at best middling talent except for 1982 and 1983, which is by no means coincidental that these were two of his best years that exceeded every other player in the National League! If he had that kind of surrounding talent each of his years in Atlanta, we wouldn’t still be debating his eligibility. He’d already be in!

Enough of the nonsense! Elect the man, or further see the integrity of the voting process plus the appeal of the HOF diminished.

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Curve ball strickout king. He was good but not that good.

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Awesome post Ken Stallings. Maybe the veterans commitee will have a clue.

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Totally agree. Webster should put his name and pic under the phrase “class act.” I hope JS is successful in changing minds

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Fire FG…

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I always felt Dale Murphy’s strongest comparative competition during what was a very strong pitching era was Andre Dawson. I’ve never understood how little support Murph has received…and Dawson gets in?!

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How is murph not in the hall he needs to get in he is on the mount rushmore of the atlanta braves

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Ahhh, Nick B… I’ve got to use your Sandberg argument against you. If you allow that logic to argue for Sandberg, then you should know that when Murphy retired he was ranked #27 ALL-TIME in Home Runs (not just among the best at one position). To put that in perspective for how much the steroid era inflated and devalued Dale Murphy’s 398 Home Run numbers… the players ranked from 26-28 on the all-time list today are Lou Gehrig, Fred McGriff, Stan Musial, and Willie Stargell.

Make sure you get this… I’m not saying Gehrig, McGriff, Musial, and Stargell’s numbers are not taken seriously. What I’m saying is that the current position of these 4 guys (#27) on the all-time Home Run list is where Murphy was at when he retired. If you are impressed by the position of these guys on the list, well, that’s where Murphy was at when he hung it up.

And then everyone quickly forgot how great Murphy was when the 90s came along and the inflated home run numbers put Murphy in the shadows quickly.

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Ol’ Dale definitely belongs in Coopertown.

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Dave, I’ve been a Braves fan since 1983. Murph was always my fav player.

Story about his kindness. My father used to know a guy who worked for the Yankees. The Braves had come into NY to play the Mets, and my father’s ffriend got me into the Braves clubhouse to get autographs. I went around, getting some, and happened to mention to someone that Dale Murphy was my idol, and wanted to get his autograph. Murph was in the trainer’s room, and someone told him that a kid who idolized him wanted his autograph. He came out of the trainer’s room, shook my hand, and signed the ball. I was only 14 when this happened, so he looked huge to me, even though I’m 6 feet tall now.

I think Murph has unfortunately been overlooked because of the bad teams the Braves had during most of his career, For several years, from 1980 to 1987, he was the dominant home run hitter in baseball.

I hope Murph gets in. Even if his numbers are “on the bubble”, the writers should also look at the all around good guy he was, and vote him in.

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Dale Murphy belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. This letter should have been written ten years ago. Now, it’s too little too late. In the 1980’s if you asked anyone to name the best players in the game, the answer would be Andre Dawson or Dale Murphy. Andre is in. Dale should be too.

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If Murph gets in, George Foster deserves it, too. (not sure either should be in, btw)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fostege01.shtml

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Only reason Murph not in is Murph himself.Any other player would have demanded a trade to perennial contender after years of carrying his team.Dale Murphy was best player in basball for years with no protection for him in the line up.A converted catcher,back to back MVP, gold gloves,30-30 when no one did it.Serious power in a dead ball no ped pitcher dominant decade.Murph never complained and just did his job better than everyone else.No doubt his numbers would be better if he got out of Atlanta with some game left.Instead he accepted a trade at the end to make room for Dave justice.Pure class.

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ramblingman
November 16th, 2011
12:20 pm

Murph’s numbers support his election. What has kept his vote totals artificially low was where he played.

Murph earned a spot in the Hall.

What drugs are you taking? His stats do not support his inclusion into the HOF. And where he played kept his numbers low?! He played in the Launching Pad! I could care less what he did in his first 12 years, which wasn’t that great anyway. Over his entire career, he was very mediocre. It makes no difference what a nice guy he was and how he has been a great ambassador for the game. If he makes it, it will further dilute the excellence required for future players to make it.

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Jerry….Read the facts! Probably the only eligible 2 Time MVP of his league not to be in the Hall of Fame…Give me a break…He may of played in the Launching Pad but Sandberg played on a high school field

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kudos to Schuerholz!

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Chipper being elected on the first ballot and Murph expiring only highlights what’s wrong with HOF balloting.

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I know this article is about Murph, but I also want to say this.

To the guy who says Chipper will never be elected. I think he;s dead wrong.

Chipper is goin to retire with a 300 or vey close to it battn average, and almost 500 homers. He was one of the premier home run hitters in baseball from about 1996 until the last couple of years.

Chipper will get in on the first ballot,or. if he plays ong enough for his career av to fall below 300, and has less than 500 homers it MIGHT take until he 2nd ballot.

The Braves will have four HOF’s from the division title streak years. Maddux, /Glavine, Smoltz, and Chipper. Thats pretty good for a team to have four HOF’s from one era.

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[...] A few that I like… – South Park has been renewed through 2016, guaranteeing 20 years on the air. – The Salvation Army bell ringers will now take credit cards. – Murph should be in the Hall of Fame. [...]

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Dale Murphy, good guy. Good career numbers. Not a Hall of Famer.

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No He will not make,or deserve the call to HOF,good player,but numbers don’t lie

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Chipper makes it on the first ballot.

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Murphy’s numbers are that of a good player, generally. But forget about comparing Murphy to players who followed him. Compare him to players (hitters) who were roughly contemporaries or proceeded him. He wasn’t close to a guy like Mike Schmidt, for instance.

Again Murphy’s a good guy and was a good talent for most of his career, but nothing on Hall of Fame scale.

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Woody,

Let’s take a look at George Foster versus Dale Murphy. Since they played most of their careers during the same time frame, it seems a fair basis for comparison.

HR: Foster (348), Murphy (398)
RBI: Foster (1239), Murphy (1266)
SLG: Foster (.480), Murphy (.469)
SB: Foster (51), Murphy (161)
2B: Foster (307), Murphy (350)
3B: Foster (47), Murphy (39)
BA: Foster (.274), Murphy (.265)
OBA: Foster (.338), Murphy (.346)
BB: Foster (666), Murphy (986)
Gold Gloves: Foster (0), Murphy (5)
Silver Sluggers: Foster (1), Murphy (4)
MVP: Foster (1), Murphy (2)
All Star: Foster (5), Murphy (7)

I think a few clear points should emerge here. Foster played 18 seasons from 1969 to 1986. Murphy played from 1976 to 1993. During the early 1970’s a number of the stadiums from the 1960’s (more hitter friendly) were replaced with the multi-purpose stadiums that dramatically increased the distances and helped cut down hitting, especially power numbers. However, it is overall a fair comparison.

Still, compare Foster’s stats to Murphy’s. Murphy leads by a clear margin in the one’s that count the most: HR’s, RBI’s, OBA, while the only one that matters where Foster leads is in slugging percentage. In terms of getting on base, scoring runs, Murphy leads in nearly every category, and by significant margins.

The defensive comparison is not even close! Foster had not a single gold glove. He was considered more of a defensive liability for the Big Red Machine vice an asset. Murphy was the best outfielder the Braves had and had a cannon arm legendary during his years with the Braves. He was given center field, while Foster was given left field, which is where the power sticks with poor glove and suspect arm are put! Everyone knows you put your best defensive outfielder in center field. Even when Murphy got old and his knees starting suffering, he was put in right field because he never lost that cannon arm that intimidates base runners from taking third base on a single.

That’s another problem with HOF voting. Too little emphasis is placed on defense, and pitching and defense are the two areas most vital to winning baseball games! That has always been true.

Now, let’s get modern and look at the trendy stat called WAR:

During his best years (1975-1981) Foster had a WAR of: 3.1, 5.0, 6.4, 4.7, 4.1, 3.2, and 3.9. He never again or before earned a WAR above 2.2 (which he did only once in 1985). Except for 1985, his WAR was consistently averaged the 1.0, which means he was overall an average baseball player.

During his best years (1980-1989) Murphy had a WAR of: 7.1, 1.6, 6.3, 7.2, 5.3, 5.3, 1.3, 7.5, 2.9, and 1.4. It is true that after 1989, Murphy’s WAR dropped terribly. But, Murphy had ten years where his WAR was above average, and for eight of those years his WAR was in elite status. Foster by comparison hit the 6.0 or higher mark (elite territory) only once in his career! Murphy hit the 7 plus mark three times! He also hit the 6 plus mark once more and the 5 plus mark twice more.

Let’s compare Murphy’s WAR to other outfielders already elected to the HOF:

Kirby Puckett: 7 plus (once), 6 plus (twice more), 5 plus (twice more): does not compare favorably to Murphy, does it?

Andre Dawson: 7 plus (once), 6 plus (thrice more), 5 plus (no more): does not compare favorably to Murphy, does it?

Reggie Jackson: 9 plus (once), 8 plus (once more), 7 plus (no more), 6 plus (twice more), 5 plus (twice more). Note: Jackson did get a 4.9 WAR one year. This compares better than Murphy. No doubt Jackson was an elite player who deserve HOF election. But, six seasons at 5 or better compares evenly to Murphy’s six seasons at 5 or better, doesn’t it?

I could go on, but again, I think the case is sufficiently made. Murphy belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame!

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[...] A few that I like… – South Park has been renewed through 2016, guaranteeing 20 years on the air. – The Salvation Army bell ringers will now take credit cards. – Murph should be in the Hall of Fame. [...]

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Sorry, in my haste to post the WAR numbers, I omitted the hardware. So, let’s look at Schmidt:

MVP: 3
All Star: 12
Gold Gloves: 10
Silver Sluggers: 6

Again, for Murphy:

MVP: 2
All Star: 7
Gold Gloves: 5
Silver Sluggers: 4

Again, no one is going to argue that Mike Schmidt was not a better player than Dale Murphy, but for the third time man, Mike Schmidt was the best third baseman in the history of the game! If that’s your yardstick for Murphy, then go ahead an build your HOF with just nine plaques in it and see how many people care to travel to see it!

Most people consider Mike Schmidt the best player overall for his era. I think he was. Again, if your yardstick is that you have to be even the best hitter or position fielder to be elected to the HOF, then if we take it for a decade, baseball has a grand total of 14 fielders/hitters and 14 pitchers in it! Last I checked, there are substantially more plaques hanging in Cooperstown than 28!

Now, find me a better hitter/fielder in the National League during the 1980’s than the duo of Mike Schmidt and Dale Murphy? It wasn’t Andre Dawson! It wasn’t Gary Carter! It wasn’t Ozzie Smith! Go ahead, find me someone better overall in that category of player than Mike Schmidt and Dale Murphy in the National League. I don’t think you can. And if you cannot, then you are saying that only the best of an entire decade can get elected into the HOF and that means we have just 28 plaques hanging there, which is not the case!

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I wish to post one more WAR-related comment. I agree that Chipper Jones is a first-ballot Hall of Fame player. My only reservation is a lack of confidence in the fairness and judgment of the voters! I mean, they left Roberto Alomar out on his first ballot and he’s widely considered the best or second best second baseman in baseball history (up there with Joe Morgan)!

But, let’s look at Chipper’s WAR run from his total career:

7 plus (3 years)
6 plus (2 more years)
5 plus (3 more years)
4 plus (2 more years)

In truth, Chipper has had a longer run of better consistency, with his lowest ever WAR being 2.2.

Hardware:

MVP: 1
All Stars: 7 (Note: he was NOT elected or selected for the All Star game his MVP season!)
Silver Sluggers: 2
Gold Gloves: 0

Chipper not having a single Gold Glove seems a bit of a travesty to me, but his recognition among his peers is not even the level of Dale Murphy’s! Where Chipper excels is post-season appearances. But, again, Murphy did what he did with consistently weak talent surrounding him! Only for two seasons did Murphy have above average hitters surrounding him. Chipper’s offensive stats are consistently better than Murphy’s. Both have so far played 18 seasons.

I think this reinforces my argument that the basic problem Murphy faces is the inflated offensive statistics that immediately followed his heyday.

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I have a baseball from a 1984 Braves game autographed by Dale. Still have it in a closet. Loved Murph!

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We made Murph better than he actually was.

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after this can we work on crime dawg? stud.

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Murphy is being compared to Puckett Sandberg Rice Dawson and so on. Thing is, not one of those guys NEEDS to be in the HOF. Sure, we can always make the case for any player who compares to some lower level HOFer. Keep doing that and pretty soon anyone better than Sid Bream will be considered HOFer material. Murphy wouldnt be a detriment to the HOF but the HOF is just as complete without him as with him. A very good player who was great for a while. A nice guy to the core. A lock for the Braves Hall of Fame. But no for Cooperstown

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Joe DiMaggio got in on the third try. Now that may be harsh, but Chipper Jones aint Joe DiMaggio. Chipper will get in, but he is simply too one dimensional to be a realistic first ballot HOFer. Chipper was a great hitter (and is still a pretty good one) but he is average at best on defense and a zero as far as leadership and other peripherals. He is the Dominique Wilkins of baseball. Second or third ballot HOFer

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we will have to agree to disagree. Murphy wouldnt be the kind of travesty to the HOF that Rizzuto was, but I stand by my view. Electing Murf to the HOF would be huge for Murph and nothing of consequence for the HOF

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Tough decision. Murphy is very much borderline, but I would lean towards putting him in.
Another Brave I would put in is Andruw Jones, who I would actually rate above Murphy overall. John Smoltz also very much deserves to get in.
And of course, Maddux, Glavine, and Chipper are locks.

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GREAT GUY….NOT HOF…ANYONE LOOKING AT THOSE STATS WOULD CALL IT A GOOD CAREER…THATS IT….BROUGHT UP AS A CATCHER, THAT COULDN’T CATCH…GET YOUR MEMORY HATS ON FOLKS…WHEW…THE HALL IS NOT A BEAUTY PAGENT..

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“And the reality is that my comparisons showed that Murphy was better that Rice, Dawson, and Puckett!” — Ken Stallings

I’m with Robert’s opinion. Because those players got in doesn’t mean they should be in (based on your analysis) or that entitles Murphy to get in. Look, players are voted into the Hall, so there’s no objective measure deciding their admission. Part of Murphy’s trouble is that he declined relatively early and kept playing (reminds me a bit of Andruw Jones).

Murphy had a solid run a good portion of his career, but not enough to lift him into elite status, in my estimation.

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Murphy’s statistics fall far short. He may well belong in a hall of fame for decent human beings but he is not a baseball hall of famer. We already have too many Dawsons, Stargells, Doerrs, Kells, Rizzutos, Fingerss, Hermans, Lindstroms, Hafeys, Newhousers, Carters, Perezs, Cepedas, and on and on and on who don’t belong. Let’s not water it down anymore.

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Baseball numbers wiz and historian Bill James wrote a book several years ago called “The Politics of Glory”. In it Bill looked at the stats of everyone in the HOF and came up with a method to determine if a player was Hall of Fame worthy. According to Bill James, Dale Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame. Not only is this stated in Bill’s book, but he also stated this in an interview once on CNN when asked about Dale.

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Yes, I really said that.

Reggie Jackson was a career .262 hitter who remains the career leader in strikeouts. He was at best unspectacular as a defender and as often as not was a distraction to his team.

He had his moments, and a good number of them occurred in the postseason and in New York. Those peripherals helped his cause, and I’m not saying that’s wrong – but the myth and aura surrounding Reggie have him remembered today as more than he was

Put it this way – if Reggie Jackson was one of the final few in the HOF, the HOF would be just fine

Back to Murphy – a very very good player who was great for a while, ans a very nice guy. The nice guy thing should help a little. The key being “a little”. In other words, if you have two guys who are equal in production and one is nice and one is an ahole, then you give the nice guy first nod.

But if being seen as a nice guy vs being seen as a “problem Negro” ends up meaning that Dale Murphy is in the HOF while Dick Allen is out, then the voters have lost their way.

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DOB – Was Reggie Jackson a complete player? Was Reggie Jackson a great pure hitter?

Let’s look at two guys who have nearly the same career adjusted OPS, both hit 500 home runs, and who also both liked to remind us frequently of their magnificence – Reggie Jackson and Gary Sheffield

One of them hit .290 for his career, and walked 14 times for every 11 times he struck out.

One of them hit .260, and struck out more than anyone ever

And let me clarify one thing. When I say Reggie is marginal I dont mean he shouldnt be in – I mean he is one of the guys who scarpes by and just makes it.

The thing about Reggie – The one thing he did great, even there, the legend exceeds the true performance. 40 HR twice, 100rbi 6 times

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Let’s look at the flip side of things – instead of arguing, “if Jim Rice), then Dale Murphy –

How about this – Norm Cash isnt in. Boog Powell isnt in (an MVP and a runner up, and a K/BB of 12 to 10, before you laugh him off). Those guys are as treasured in Detroit and Baltimore, respectively, as Murphy is in Atlanta.

Bottom line, the Hall of Fame was meant to be an EXCLUSIVE group. The supporters of the guys who are thus EXcluded are always going to be unhappy -

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Three guys to compare with Dale Murphy

First Murphy – 18 seasons, 121 career adjusted OPS, 9040 plate appearances, , .265 BA, .346 OBP, 398 HR, 1266RBI – 2 MVP’s, 7 All-Star Games, 5 Gold Gloves, arguably the best player in the NL for the period 1982-1987 – was a threat on the basepaths for a part of his career (161 steals) – best single season adjusted OPS 157 – very nice guy

Next – Dave Parker – 19 seasons, 121 career adjusted OPS, 10184 plate appearances, .290 BA, .339 OBP, 339 HR, 1493 RBI, 7-time All-Star, 1 MVP, 2 Gold Gloves, 2 batting titles, one of the leagues most feared hitters from 1975-1980, was a threat on the basepaths for part of his career – best single season adjusted OPS 166 – not such a nice guy

Next – Harold Baines – 22 seasons, career adjusted OPS 120, 384 HR, 1628 RBI, .289 BA, .356 OBP, 6-time All-Star, best single season adjusted OPS 144 – Did not have the half decade of superstardom the previous two did (and yet had the best career OBP and similar adjusted OPS), spent considerable part of his career as a DH

Last – Norm Cash – 17 seasons, 7910 plate appearances, career adjusted OPS 139, 377 HR , 1103 RBI, .271 BA, .374 OBP, best single season adjusted OPS 201 –

Baines is clearly a no. I can argue for or against Cash, but cant see how you could exclude him and include either Parker or Murphy. And if you wanna argue for Murphy, you’re on weak ground if you wanna then not include Parker just because one was perceived as a nicer guy – Let’s not forget, Murphy’s polygamy is not moral behavior according to some

Bottom line – the Pirates fan who wants to tout for the Cobra or the Tigers fan who wants to campaign for Cash have as much or more to go on than the Braves fans who scream fro Murphy.

OUR hometown hero always seems to be best – to US. That doesnt mean that OUR guy should be the one out of this group to be enshrined in Cooperstown

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Let’s try and look at this yet another way – and really I am kind of thinking aloud here

Let’s first agree that, at his best, Dale Murphy was CLEARLY a HOF caliber player -

So, then, how many times does a guy have to be there? And for how long? (in other words, is a five year consecutive run the same as five years scattered thruout the career). And how high should the highest peak be?

And where is the balance between quantity and quality?

For this – look at Murphy vs Mattingly

Mattingly had a run 1984-1989 that’s right there with Murphy 1982-1987. Murphy had more years of prior and subsequent mediocrity than Mattingly did. I dont know how much is enough, but clearly there’s a difference between say “X” number of years or appearances with a certain normalized stat such as adjusted OPS and “2X” appearances at the same normalized level

That said – 9000 plate appearances at an adjusted OPS of 121, vs 7700 plate appearances with an adjusted OPS of 127 ?

That’s two or three years – I could easily argue that if Mattingly had hung around for three more years of medicrity, he might have Murphy’s 9000 plate appearances – and his 121 adjusted OPS too.

Now – I know that some of the Yankees hardcore advocate for Mattingly to get to Cooperstown. But how many of the Braves fan base see Mattingly as a HOFer — (just to try and put into perspective what those more than 50 miles outside the 285 Perimeter might be thinking of our hero Dale Murphy)

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“Now, find me a better hitter/fielder in the National League during the 1980’s than the duo of Mike Schmidt and Dale Murphy? It wasn’t Andre Dawson! It wasn’t Gary Carter! It wasn’t Ozzie Smith”

This is a ludicrous standpoint. I mean, better duo based on what exactly? (other than linking the guy you advocate with Schmidt)

A hitter/fielder duo – as in one hitter and one fielder? Gimme Schmidt and Ozzie Smith. As in two guys whio could do both very well? Gimme Schmidt and Dawson over Schmidt and Murphy – (and I think Dawson was a borderline silly HOF choice)

I mean – Greg Maddux and any name out of the phone book make a pretty good pitching duo

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I even get tired of hearing myself talk!

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I’ve heard all the “against” arguments a million times. And I say you can shove ‘em up your orifice of choice. If ever there were a Hall of Famer, it’s ol’ #3.

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By the way, how do baseball experts feel about Murphy? Well, I had forgotten until just now to mention this fact. But, on the MLB Network Prime 9 show on the best players of the 1980’s, in centerfield, they named Dale Murphy!

The second fact that caught my eye was that half of the players listed by that MLB Network Prime 9 program as best of the 1980’s by position have not yet been elected to the Hall of Fame!

I assure everyone that you cannot say this about the football, basketball, and hockey Halls of Fame. Players whom many consider “weak” inductees would in any other sport in America be considered no-brainer choices.

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Robert,

You keep grasping at every angle to try to prove Murphy doesn’t belong. Now you’re hitting the McGriff angle.

Let me put that one to rest from my perspective.

Crime Dog deserves to be inducted also!

493 HR with 1550 RBI is a solid one-two punch for the Hall. He’s had two season with a WAR above six and another season above 5. His WAR is weaker than you might think with someone with those numbers, but again that reflects the offensive inflation I have written about previously.

The other weakness of McGriff’s claim is the lack of league hardware. He never finished higher than 4th in the MVP vote, plus he never won a Gold Glove. He was named an All Star six times, which is strong, and won a Silver Slugger three times, which is also strong. But, back to WAR shows that McGriff’s career WAR is a strong 50.5. By comparison, Murphy’s career WAR was 44.2. Reggie Jackson’s again was 74.6 (first ballot HOF), Chipper Jones 82.7 (hence likely first ballot HOF), and just to let everyone know what off the chart looks like: Babe Ruth 172.0 and Henry Aaron 141.6!

BTW: I’m not going to let pass one thing you wrote which was a cheap shot on Murphy. You spoke of “Murphy’s polygamy!” Those were your words, not mine! Dale Murphy has never cheated on his wife, Nancy. He’s been faithfully married to her for decades and have eight children together, and the two have lived the most solid and honest marriage one can imagine. Frankly, shame on you! One should not feel the need to stoop to personal degradations of one’s character to try to put forward an argument about HOF merit!

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What, Robert, did Murphy not sign your ball? Good grief.

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Here is what Joe Posnanski, a great baseball writer, had to say about Murphy’s Hall of Fame case in 2012.

“Dale Murphy

Verdict: Yes

Here is my wild-card pick — one that most people I know disagree with. I get that. Murphy’s career numbers fall short. He burned out young — he was excellent for about eight years and not especially good on either side of those eight years.

But, as I mentioned in the Don Mattingly section, I put together a list of the best players in baseball since 1970. And from 1980 through ‘87 — that’s four five-year periods — Murphy was smack in the discussion as the best player in baseball. I’m not sure he ever was quite the best — Mike Schmidt was awfully good — but you could make a viable argument for him. He was, in his prime, a Gold Glove center fielder who got on base, hit with power, stole bases and willingly was the face of baseball as the (only) star attraction for Ted Turner’s Atlanta Braves. The Hall of Fame does ask its voters to consider a player’s character… a slippery slope. But Murphy surely must get bonus points.

I will concede that Murphy is an emotional pick — I was living in the South when Murphy towered as a larger-than-life character who signed every autograph, spoke up for every charity and played brilliant baseball every day for mostly doomed teams. But my new theory this year is that if a player is in the discussion as the best in baseball over a substantial period of time, he deserves serious consideration. Murphy gets my vote.”

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DALE MURPHY IS WHAT A HALL-OF 0FAMER IS ALL ABOUT. A GREAT TEAM PLAYER, AN EVERYDAY PLAYER, A MOST ADMIRED MVP(TWICE), AND A TRUE GENTLEMAN. HE GAVE HIS ALL, MOSTLY WITH A BELOW AVERAGE TEAM, AND HIS NUMBERS REFLECT HIS GREATNESS. DURING HIS PLAYING YEARS IN ATLANTA MURPHY WAS WHAT KIDS THOUGHT OF AS MR.BASEBALL. TO THIS DAY HE STILL SUPPORTS HIS ATLANTA BRAVES AT ALL FUNCTIONS AND IS REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT A TRUE HALL-OF-FAMER SHOULD BE. THE HALL-OF-FAME VOTERS WILL DO THE” HALL” A GREAT SERVICE BY VOTING IN DALE MURPHY.Y

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http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dale-Murphy-for-HOF/169809493114256?notif_t=page_new_likes

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Bottom line, if Murphy played for the Red Sox and Rice had played for the Braves, Dale would be in. We all know that the Northeast Corridor sportswriters would have put him in and it’d be Rice on the outside looking in needing help from his owner.

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Don’t add Bob Horner as a HOF he more like Hall of fame at Pizza hut ..never see Horner in Hall

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Oh yes, definately Dale Murphy deserves to be in the HOF. At one point in the late 80’s and 90’s Dale was truly the face of the Braves and a dominant factor through the entire NL and baseball in general. His accomplishments throughout his years in the Brave organization was truly remarkable especially since the team was poor in preformances, he was there producing with the top preformers in the league. With those productive numbers and his character he definitely deserves the induction into the HOF.

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I remember when Murph lived in Lawrenceville. Wish he still did! A quality of a human being if there ever was one.

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