Braves willing to trade the likes of Jurrjens, Prado? – updated

(Staff writer Carroll Rogers is filling in for David O’Brien.)

Royals general manager Dayton Moore acknowledged Friday having a conversation with the Braves about potential trade match-ups but apparently the asking price was too steep.

The Kansas City star is reporting the Braves wanted top outfield prospect Wil Myers, as well as center fielder Lorenzo Cain for Jair Jurrjens and possibly Martin Prado, but the Royals are unlikely to part with Myers.

The talks appear to have stalled, but it’s clear the Braves are exploring the possibility of cutting payroll by trading arbitration eligible players who are approaching free agency like Prado and Jurrjens.

The Royals need starting pitching– their 4.82 starters’ ERA last season was second-to-last in the majors – and they have some payroll flexibility to dedicate to improving their staff. The Braves have an abundance of starting pitching and are looking to shed payroll so they can spend on offensive upgrade in the outfield and/or shortstop. Jurrjens and Prado are each likely to make around $5 million in arbitration.

Moore was the Braves farm director when Prado was coming up through the minors and Moore has always had great respect for Prado’s work ethic and attitude. But after the injury-plagued seasons both Jurrjens (knee) and Prado (staph infection) had, there are question marks with both.

For the Braves, the asking price is high for Jurrjens, given both his track record and the risk on their end. Now that the Braves have traded Derek Lowe and cleared $5 million there, Tim Hudson and Jurrjens are their most veteran starters. The Braves don’t know how Tommy Hanson’s shoulder will hold up after he missed the better part of the last two months of the season. And the remaining candidates for the rotation – Brandon Beachy, Mike Minor, Randall Delgado and Julio Teheran - combined don’t have half as much service time as Jurrjens.

One insider I’ve talked to thinks Prado makes the most sense for the Braves to trade, given the value he could bring and given that he lacks power, which is what the Braves are looking to upgrade left field with.

For those of us who know and watch Prado every day, that’s a tough suggestion. He’s as good of a guy as there is, his teammates adore him, and he is a .300 hitter by every account except last year, when time missed for a staph infection and an uncharacteristic pull-happiness had him hitting a career-low .260.

If you ask me, Prado was the Braves most valuable player two years ago, when they made their last trip to the playoffs. He was an NL All-Star that same year. And when he’s right, isn’t he an ideal No. 2 hitter?

One thing that does seem true, though, is that Prado is in no man’s land right now. The Braves are looking to add punch in the corner outfield and aren’t going to trade Jason Heyward, given his youth, his upside and his price tag. So that leaves them looking to the other corner.

Prado was probably at his best playing second base but then the Braves signed Dan Uggla. If anything, with Chipper Jones back next year, he’d probably be in some kind of super utility role, splitting time between third, left field and the occasional second or first.

So what do you do?

To me it ultimately depends on how good a bump you get with that extra money. It has to be worth it. And that’s something only Braves GM Frank Wren and company have an idea about at this point.

When talking to Wren on Monday after the Braves traded Lowe, here’s what he said about where the team goes from here.

“We like the foundation of our team,” Wren said. “We may make some tweaks or we may make some bigger moves, just depending on what is out there and how it all falls over the course of the next couple months.”

Knowing Wren’s track record, you figure he’ll aim big. But we’ll see how it plays out.

Kimbrel’s the Players’ choice

Braves closer Craig Kimbrel was named the National League’s outstanding rookie last night at  the Players’ Choice awards. He also won the Sporting News rookie of the year. The big one – the Baseball Writers Association of America – will be announced on Monday, November 14.

This is one of those times, when I am actually glad the bosses don’t let me vote in the BBWAA awards anymore. That’s a tough choice between Kimbrel and Freddie Freeman. It’s hard to argue with a major league rookie record of 46 saves for Kimbrel, but then you look at how Freeman stacks up offensively.

Freeman finished third among NL rookies with a .282 batting average, first in homers (21), first in RBIs (76), second in multi-hit games (43), second in runs (67), first in hits (161), first in total bases (256), first in doubles (32), second in walks (53) and third in on-base percentage (.346) and third in slugging percentage (.448).

Braves Top 10 Prospects

I got my Baseball America Top 10 Prospects issue in the mail today. I know it was released earlier in the week online but for those who missed it, I’ll list the Braves Top 10 prospects and a sentence or two from the scouting report (sorry, ain’t typing out the whole thing):

1. RHP Julio Teheran: A lanky hurler who throws on an impressive downward plane, Teheran works low in the zone and also is capable of getting batters to chase high fastballs….Teheran’s change-up is nearly as good as his fastball, featuring outstanding depth and fade.

2. RHP Arodys Vizcaino: Vizcaino’s fastball sits 93-95 and touches 97. He also has sharp-breaking curveball that’s a plus pitch but he tends to fall in love with it too much.

3. RHP Randall Delgado: He has a smooth, quick delivery and does a good job of using the same arm speed with all of his pitches. Delgado tends to lose some deception when his arm action gets long.

4. SS Andrelton Simmons: He is a premier defender with a cannon for an arm and soft quick hands….An aggressive hitter, Simmons knows the strike zone but doesn’t walk much.

5. LHP Sean Gilmartin: He throws an 88-91 mp fastball with good life and a solid slider. His best pitch is a plus change-up and he knows how to set up hitters while mixing all of his offerings.

6. 3B Edward Salcedo: He has above-average power potential, thanks to his quick bat and smooth stroke. Tremendously raw when he signed, he showed a more advanced approach and greater knowledge of the strike zone in 2011.

7. SS Tyler Pastornicky: He has a good feel for hitting and makes consistent line-drive contact….He has above-average range at shortstop, and he could get more out of his average arm with a more consistent arm slot.

8. RHP Zeke Spruill: He found success by pounding the bottom of the strike zone with his sinking 91-94 mph fastball, pitching to contact and not worrying about strikeouts.

9. C Christian Bethancourt: He has soft hands, plus arm strength and a quick release that helped him throw out 38 percent of basestealers in 2011.He also possesses good hand-eye coordination, makes consistent contact and shows solid raw power.

10. 3B Brandon Drury: He excels at making contact – almost to a fault because he walked just six times in 63 games in 2011 – and does a nice job of using the entire field. He gets good carry on his hits because of the backspin he generates.

4,219 comments Add your comment

P-Town Brave ©

November 4th, 2011
1:51 pm

CB-

A few key issues there w/ what you said…

Uggla hits lefties like a lefty so that one holds no water and Ross is a backup so you can’t account for him very often or only about every 5th day…

If we get Gordon, Prado doesn’t factor in because Gordon plays every day correct?

And Pastor shouldn’t be brought into the conversation til he is given the job….

So….at a given time, you would have 5 lefties in the lineup v LHP w/ Uggla added as a 6th who is terrible against LHP and that is not counting whomever they get to play SS…

THAT is just an awful idea for a team who has so much trouble v LHP my friend.

The Ol' Nexter

November 4th, 2011
1:51 pm

The Ol' Nexter

November 4th, 2011
1:52 pm

KC won’t have any interest in trading Alex Gordon.

MFin04

November 4th, 2011
1:55 pm

“Of course the risk is if Jurrjens is healthy and goes and wins the Cy Young for the Royals next year. Then what?”

Jair Jurrjens has the potential to win the Cy Young. That’s the scary part of trading him. He is that good. I don’t get why people keep knocking him. The guy is a top 10 NL pitcher when he is healthy. If you want to debate that he is injury prone fine…but every pitcher is one injury away from being done.

The premise that he is somehow not that good is ridiculous. He is THAT good. And unless you’re going to get something of equal value…then it is no where near a good idea to trade him. No dealing him for Melky Cabrera crap. Maybe a Matt Kemp type player. But I’d rather have Jair then what we’re likely to settle for.

joekill

November 4th, 2011
1:55 pm

MFin04

November 4th, 2011
2:00 pm

“As for trading Wil Myers for Jurrjens, this is just too high of a price. After the promotions of Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas and others, Myers is arguably the Royals top prospect, and among high-ceiling prospects who are getting close to the majors, he’s the frontrunner. He’s not guarantee for immediate success, as his off-year in Northwest Arkansas demonstrates, but his upside is such that he could draw a much better pitcher than just Jair Jurrjens. It’s just too costly for the Royals.

If they can get Jurrjens for a lesser prospect, by all means, do it.”

Well that’s from KC. Apparently everyone overvalues prospects. Jurrjens is great. Braves need to get a guy like Mike Moustakas in return if they are going to do a deal.

Efrim

November 4th, 2011
2:00 pm

Thought this was the interesting part of the Crasnick piece:

Sources confirmed an MLB.com report that the Braves are willing to entertain offers for Jurrjens and Prado. Indeed, the Braves are ready to listen on just about anyone except Heyward, first baseman Freddie Freeman and their elite young pitchers.

It’s partly a function of economics. Jurrjens is two years away from free agency and is in line to make about $5.5 million next season. Prado is also eligible for free agency after the 2013 season and will probably make about $4.5 million next year.

It’s also a product of inventory. Assuming that Hanson is fully recovered from shoulder problems — never a sure thing — Atlanta enters spring training with a rotation of Tim Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Brandon Beachy and Mike Minor. Management has no plans to use Teheran, Randall Delgado or Arodys Vizcaino in the bullpen, so they could all be pitching in Triple-A next April unless the team makes a move to create some space.

Prado’s best positions are second base and third. Second is filled by Dan Uggla, who recovered from a terrible start to lead the National League with 21 home runs after the All-Star break. And third belongs primarily to Jones, who turns 40 in late April and is in the final year of a three-year, $42 million deal that includes a club option for 2013. Jones’ production last season (126 games, .275, 18 homers and 70 RBIs) is probably a best-case scenario at this stage of his career. It’s not the optimal arrangement for a No. 3 hitter, but this is how things work when franchise icons enter their twilight years.

An offensive upgrade is at the top of Wren’s offseason wish list. The Braves made a run at Hunter Pence in late July and would love to acquire a young, reasonably-priced, right-handed bat this winter.

Lorenzo Cain, a Triple-A outfielder with Kansas City who’s on the verge of a big league breakthrough, has been mentioned in speculation. Scan the list of big league outfielders who fit the young-and-affordable description, and it includes names such as Austin Jackson, Chris Heisey, Jerry Sands, Peter Bourgeois, Allen Craig, John Mayberry Jr., Desmond Jennings, Nolan Reimold and Casper Wells. Most of those players would be difficult or impossible to obtain (see: Jennings, Desmond) or lack the ability to make a significant difference.

The only sure thing is Wren can’t afford to sit still. The Braves have to compete in a division with the powerhouse Phillies, a Marlins franchise that’s jazzed by the move to a new ballpark, a Washington team with Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper in the long-term picture and … well … the Mets.

In the overall scheme of things, nothing keeps a team from dwelling on failure like the impetus to move forward. For the 2011 Braves, spring training can’t arrive soon enough.

Derek

November 4th, 2011
2:00 pm

Prado is my favorite player. I love his work ethic and would hate to see him go, especially as he is a potential replacement for chipper, but sometimes the good of the team has to come first.

Efrim

November 4th, 2011
2:05 pm

However, Wren HAD that money then and doesn’t now. That’s a substantial difference – not to mention we needed much pitching then, but actually only need a part time corner outfielder this year.

That’s fair. I guess it’s about what Wren is looking for if and when we trade away Jurrjens or Prado or both. I have to imagine with 20-22 million available he’d have the funds and therefore make a play for outfield production from the free agent pool, right?

And I understand there are concerns about Beltran;’s health. Totally understand that. But sometimes you have to take some risks. He did it with Lowe three years ago and while that didn’t turn out well, it doesn;t mean he can’t sip into free agency again.

Unfortuntely, being a mid-market team like we are, we either use players in their early to mid twenties and add free agents that are past their prime or don’t. Because the Braves aren’t going to sign Matt Kemp next year for 8 years and 180-200 million dollars, folks.

Joey M

November 4th, 2011
2:07 pm

My only fear is Wren falls in love with selling unproven talent for long proven talent. It’s one extreme to the other. Trade young for old. The future looks bright…. That is if we can keep them in a Braves uniform.

tony

November 4th, 2011
2:07 pm

Seems everyone has forgotten about medlin, who may be the better of the prospects. at least he looked pretty good getting kimbrell out of a big jam.

flange1

November 4th, 2011
2:08 pm

Thanks for the new blog CR!

PMC

November 4th, 2011
2:08 pm

Wouldn’t bother me if they managed to bring in Jeff Francouer as a defensive outfielder.

haggard

November 4th, 2011
2:09 pm

Thanks for the new goods, Carroll. Another good thing about Wren: he certainly gets the Hot Stove stoked early when so many others seem to wait until after the winter meetings. And I’ve been bemoaning the possible loss of Prado without considering a point you made: he is lacking in power.

LOL DOB

November 4th, 2011
2:09 pm

Heyward was the most valuable player last year… DOB gets it wrong again.

LOL DOB

November 4th, 2011
2:10 pm

Also learn to focus on stuff beside batting average. We’ve all grown smarter than that bad stat now.

MFin04

November 4th, 2011
2:11 pm

Beltran fits really well with this team. Especially if you can have Martin be a super-sub who plays almost every day.

Braves have got to acquire a decent outfield bat. Berkman, Beltran, Pence, Werth type of bat.

Fols

November 4th, 2011
2:11 pm

Tough spot…..we go to that all youthful starting rotation and we’ll all be crying when the injuries start up. It’s nice to have a little experience….we brought in a D-Lowe to physically make his starts and he did. True he sucked, but so do injuries which bring on excuses.

Personally it’s Prado that’s the odd one here. He can play 2nd and 3rd and apparently never learnt the position in-between those two or it would be a no brainer to slide him into short.

We’re going to trade him, and he’s going to have a monster year next season…….that’s almost a given. I just hope we don’t cheap out and stick a guy like Church in the field :)

flange1

November 4th, 2011
2:12 pm

The blog was written by Carroll Rogers not DOB.

CB

November 4th, 2011
2:12 pm

P-Town,I answered you back on old blog.

CB

November 4th, 2011
2:13 pm

LOL,LOL DOB.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:13 pm

Okay, the door is open for the NUTJOBS!!! Jurrjens is a mid rotation starter, first half last year was a fluke, secondly Prado is NOT a Full time answer at 3b, 13 hr from a power position? gimme a break!

Murph

November 4th, 2011
2:16 pm

Two guys I’m hoping the Braves don’t pick up this offseason: Willingham and/or Cain.

I don’t like either one of them, and a quick glance at their histories should tell you why.

No thanks. If that’s all that is available, then I’d rather keep JJ and Prado.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:16 pm

Here we go with Francouer jokes! NO way on Francouer, what? did you live 3 houses down from 2 streets over from where Jeffy Boy grew up! is that your claim to fame for him/ Francouer Sucks plain and simple!

MFin04

November 4th, 2011
2:18 pm

We should probably look to deal Kris Medlen. I mean the guy is getting pretty expensive now, and we can’t use him in relief or the starting rotation. Probably should deal him for a guy like Ryan Church. Excellent defensive ballplayer.

You know the old adage. “Too much pitching really is a bad thing.”

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:19 pm

One quick question? Where has Liberty Media ever stated that the Braves have a BUDGET? Never once has a talking head stated that., In fact Wren , McGuirk, and Schuerholtz have stated they have full authority to make moves as needed, just that they were going to be responsible, however Lowe and KK were irresponsible!

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:20 pm

Ever tired of budget talk, when there is no budget, the Braves front office is the only entity that sets the ceiling.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:21 pm

Fiscal reality is 5.5 mill is too much for a half season pitcher., 4.5 ,mill and rising is too much for a mediocre LF that has limited power.

DenizenofDay 06182007

November 4th, 2011
2:26 pm

So, can Martin’ NOT play SS? His natural positions are 2nd and 3rd but who’s to say that he couldn’t be the stop-gap at SS for 2012 and bring up a prospect to play when Prado plays 3rd?

El Bravo

November 4th, 2011
2:29 pm

Trading JJ is not a bad move. We have a wealth of starting pitching (Hudson, JJ, Hanson, Medlen, Delgado, Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor, Beachy) and, at some point, we are going to have to get rid of 3 or more of them (that is 9 starters for 5 spots). JJ can bring the best return out of all of them. Trading Prado doesn’t make sense. He was a very good player for two seasons before getting injured last year and he has an excellent work ethic. He is due for a rebound season next year…

El Bravo

November 4th, 2011
2:30 pm

As far as I am concerned everyone on our roster can be traded depending on the return (except Chipper and Hudson since they have 10-5 veto power). I would prefer to keep both of them if we could address our needs for a power hitting left fielder and a high OBP shortstop through free agency, but I doubt we can get what we need within our budget.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:30 pm

Martin Prado and 10000 other scouts say he can’t play short! one more damn time Prado isn’t good enough to play short!

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:31 pm

El Bravo, there is NO BUDGET!

cricket

November 4th, 2011
2:31 pm

According to Rosenthal free agents Josh Willingham, Coco Crisp, and David DeJesus are all but certain to leave the A’s and among players under contract only second baseman Jemile Weeks is totally off limits.

If true, that would mean young building blocks like Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, and Kurt Suzuki could be available, which would surely have just about every team in baseball calling Beane.

Things could change in a hurry if the potential San Jose ballpark plans are approved, but short of that happening Rosenthal writes that Beane’s offseason will be spent trimming an already modest payroll.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:32 pm

Wren McGuirk and John S all huddle to set a payroll ceiling, Liberty Media puts no constraints on them!

Patrick

November 4th, 2011
2:38 pm

I’m starting to get really irritated about this news.
First of all, all the players that Jerry Crasnick mentioned are lesser version of Bourn, who is already on the team next year. Jerry and the crack staff at ESPN seemed to missed that the Braves are seeking A POWER HITTING OUTFIELDER!

Also, if the Braves want to compete they need to spend MORE MONEY! They have it, they just choose not too. Not I’m not saying become the Yankees but hold onto your damn players that you develepoed and have become fan favorites…otherwise, good job trying to keep your fan base and turner field already has issues with attendance.

Additionally I know we saved 5 mil with trading Lowe, but Kawakami’s contract is off the books to, that’s like 5-6mil also saved.
There should be no need to trade either Jurrjens or Prado unless the right deal that is clearly in the Braves favor comes along…which it won’t (I doubt anyone would pull a Horacio Ramirez for Soriano type trade again). Sit just sit and do very little Wren, go get another arm or two for the bullpen and nothing else!

MIdtown

November 4th, 2011
2:40 pm

JJ showed this year that he knows how to pitch. Before he was hurt he was a dominant pitcher who worked through the line efficiently, despite not having overpowering stuff. There are plenty of guys who can throw flames, but one who knows how to pitch is still a rare commodity in my book.

Efrim

November 4th, 2011
2:40 pm

If true, that would mean young building blocks like Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, and Kurt Suzuki could be available, which would surely have just about every team in baseball calling Beane.

Gio Gonzalez and Trevor Cahill and two pitchers that are going to generate a ton of interest.

DS1

November 4th, 2011
2:42 pm

JoeBrave

Damn if you don’t just brighten up a room anytime you enter……………….

Does it really matter? You bitching about it won’t change anybody’s mind.

Sometimes fans get too wrapped around the axle about team budgets. We are fans. We are not part-time GM’s. Doesn’t matter what we think or would do.

Ranting about it solves absolutely nothing, except to just get it off your chest I guess.

OK. We heard you. Give it a rest, OK. Please.

Murph

November 4th, 2011
2:42 pm

I don’t know this for sure, but I’d guess the higher-ups in Liberty have told the Braves that they need to return a certain amount of profit every year. There is no set budget, but I’d guess there is a set number of $$$ that has to be hit or it could mean front office jobs.

So you’re right JoeBrave, no budget, but that doesn’t mean Wren can go spending all willy-nilly and expect to still be employed. If they could somehow get an increase in revenues through attendance, licensing, or some other means then maybe they’d feel more comfortable adding a few million to the payroll.

Without that increase in revenue to offset the increase in payroll, though, I doubt you’ll see much change.

Efrim

November 4th, 2011
2:45 pm

Indeed, the Braves are ready to listen on just about anyone except Heyward, first baseman Freddie Freeman and their elite young pitchers. – Jerry Crasnick

And McCann, and Jones, and Uggla, and Hudson, and Kimbrel, and Venters….

Assuming that Hanson is fully recovered from shoulder problems — never a sure thing — Atlanta enters spring training with a rotation of Tim Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Brandon Beachy and Mike Minor. Management has no plans to use Teheran, Randall Delgado or Arodys Vizcaino in the bullpen, so they could all be pitching in Triple-A next April unless the team makes a move to create some space. – Jerry Crasnick

Good to hear they have no plans of using the Latin trio in the pen. Or at least that’s what they are saying now.

Lorenzo Cain, a Triple-A outfielder with Kansas City who’s on the verge of a big league breakthrough, has been mentioned in speculation. Scan the list of big league outfielders who fit the young-and-affordable description, and it includes names such as Austin Jackson, Chris Heisey, Jerry Sands, Peter Bourgeois, Allen Craig, John Mayberry Jr., Desmond Jennings, Nolan Reimold and Casper Wells

Yeah, it’s either off limits because they are too young, good – or they just aren;t making enough of an impact.

Of course there is Chris Heisey, right TenneseePaul? ;)

CrαZy

November 4th, 2011
2:45 pm

If Prado was moved to SS he’d be the worst defensive SS in the majors and maybe even all of AAA.

[...] p. m. Eastern -Atlanta may be willing to trade Jair Jurrjens or Martin Prado and they’ve had general discussions [...]

El Bravo

November 4th, 2011
2:47 pm

Myers and Cain for Jurjens and one of our lesser pitching prospects (Gilmartin) would be a trade I would make in a minute. With the extra cash you could get a one year rental for LF (JD Drew and Gomes in a platoon), a serviceable SS (Jamey Carroll) and shore up the bench and pen. The Braves would then be in great position to dominate the division for many years to come with a ton of young talent at almost every position and a ton of cash to fill in where necessary…

DAP - Lefties Unite!!!

November 4th, 2011
2:47 pm

efrim When the Braves needed pitching, Wren spent 60 million dollars on a 35 year old Derek Lowe that was considered to be a guy that took the ball everyday and never spent time on the disabled list. All he did was provide bulk innings and slightly better than league average ERA’s for the Dodgers. Wren could do that for 60 million, but couldn’t possibly give Carlos Beltran – a more impactful player –

hm…cant go with you there man. thats not the same thing. we need offense because 80% of the team had bad years, not because they are old/hurt and retiring or moving on. we dont need a bat the same way we needed an arm.

Astro Joe

November 4th, 2011
2:50 pm

If you keep all of the players from last season, then how do you find room to upgrade the offense? The options are limited and because Chipper & McCann are NOT everyday players, they MUST find a dependable run producer. While giving Heyward time to work with proven hitting coaches, I think adding another stick makes a ton of sense.

That said, they still need a true ace to advance once they make the postseason.

El Bravo

November 4th, 2011
2:52 pm

CraZy wrote: “If Prado was moved to SS he’d be the worst defensive SS in the majors and maybe even all of AAA.” I strongly disagree with this statement; Derek Jeter has not announced his retirement…

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:52 pm

DS1,when ignorant posts cease to be made I will stop ranting, Budgets when there are none, repetitive request for the return of Gwinnett’s hometown turd Francouer! jeez have a little credibility in a post! same ol crap over and over!
I agree with the 10% Jurrjens, and Prado should be TRADED. today if at all possible!

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:55 pm

too many are fan’s of the Player, and not the Team, there is NO “I” in team!

ray

November 4th, 2011
2:55 pm

I’d rather trade JJ than have him leave soon and get nothing back. the Braves are afraid to offer arbitraton nowadays because of prior problems with Maddux and Soriano. so, when guys become free agents, they let them walk and lose assets.
if there is no budget, I don’t know why the Braves needed the White Sox to pay part of Linebrink’s salary and can’t consider higher level free agents.

ncscoots

November 4th, 2011
2:55 pm

JJ showed this year that he knows how to pitch.

He’s actually shown it long before this year. People yak about his peripherals (I know this, because I’ve been one of the yakkers), but here’s the way that goes: overperform one year, and it’s a fluke; overperform two years, and it’s a coincidence. Overperform three years, and it ain’t overperformance.

When healthy (as in 2009 and the first half of 2011), Jurrjens has shown he has the ability to get outs at a rate that is all out of whack to what one would think. That might still be coincidence, but it certainly looks less and less like a fluke.

Now, if one wants to trade the guy because one thinks he can’t hold up for 35 starts, I can buy your reasoning, whether or not I agree. But let’s leave off the notion that he’s sucky, to boot, or that he’s some mildly-average pitcher who has somehow lucked into 400 good innings.

DS1

November 4th, 2011
2:55 pm

Just spent 5 minutes looking down the list of team payrolls for 2011. One thing stands out. You don’t have to spend the most money to get into or win the World Series.

Team #11 won it this year, and team #13 was in it. We were team #15. Sounds about right for the size of our market.

And 7 of the top 9 spenders didn’t get to the dance this time.

Yeah, let’s spend more money…………

:sad:

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
2:56 pm

I can’t believe there are still people who want Fancouer back. Also, I agree that Prado absolutely can’t play SS. This isn’t a video game, and being ok at 2B doesn’t mean you can play all over the field.

Kevin

November 4th, 2011
2:57 pm

Way to think outside the box and give us something new when writing this blog. You basically repeated the exact same info that was put on MLB.com by Mark Bowman. Thanks for the timely plagiarized info.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:58 pm

ray would you have paid 5.5 million for Linebrink??? Wren wouldn’t have either that is why that particular deal was done Linebrink was in Guillens doghouse, and no one and I mean none was paying 5.5 mill for that scrub!

ncscoots

November 4th, 2011
2:58 pm

too many are fan’s of the Player, and not the Team, there is NO “I” in team!

No, but there is a “me”. :-)

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
2:59 pm

ncscoots, Thank you for the validity… wow refreshing for a change! not you but against others a real breath of fresh air.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
3:00 pm

lol @ scoots

DAP - Lefties Unite!!!

November 4th, 2011
3:01 pm

p-town, nothing wrong with 5 lefties in a lineup, as long as they can hit.

it would be a mistake to build a team based on the idea that it bashes lefthanded pitching, since 3/4 of mlb pitchers are right handed. 5 lefties, 3 righties is a balanced lineup, as long as they can hit.

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:01 pm

If we could get Cain and Myers for JJ and Prado, we’d have to pull the trigger. Keep in mind, our new LF probably wouldn’t come out of this trade. It would more likely come from the money we would save. We need more good position players on the farm.

Snotboogie

November 4th, 2011
3:01 pm

DS1,when ignorant posts cease to be made I will stop ranting,

Quite the vicious cycle you got going there.

NickB

November 4th, 2011
3:01 pm

@ Murph

Why the dislike for Willingham? His avg year is 25 HR’s and an .835 OPS with a wRC+ of 123 (or 23% better than avg). He’d be a great fit in LF for the braves!

Cain projects as being Bourne but cheaper (and maybe a tad bit better). I see no problem with acquiring either one honestly!

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
3:02 pm

Ds!, thanks for getting that money post before me. better put than I would have. Some would have the braves wind up like the Dodgers, and bust the bank, when in fact they are probably the very one’s staying away from the games, because of what? Cost!

TDub

November 4th, 2011
3:02 pm

Yes on trading Jurrjens, no on Prado. We need Prado as super UT and to play 50 or so games at 3B until Chipper retires (which he would then likely take over, at least until/if Salcedo is ready). Jurrjens is very good, but I wouldn’t say Cy Young-caliber like others above. Some scouts/analysts I’ve read think he’s been more lucky than good, based on peripheral data. Also, Jurrjens is a Boras client, isn’t he?

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
3:03 pm

Snot, not vicious, just frazzled at the same ol crap, especially the Francouer biz!

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:03 pm

I’d like Willingham, but I’m not sure about having him for 3 years (which is what he’s seeking).

kimbrel rocks

November 4th, 2011
3:03 pm

the braves might be dumb enough to trade prado. chipper gets hurt in game 3 and we have no third baseman for the whole season. minor leaguers are not ready and prado is a MAJOR part of the team.

DO NOT TRADE PRADOOOOOOO!

CB

November 4th, 2011
3:04 pm

Agreed,DAP- Lefties Unite!

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:04 pm

Let’s get Frenchy back. Also, I didn’t like the Tex trade. FIRE WREN!!! TRADE HAYWOOD!!!

DS1

November 4th, 2011
3:05 pm

SB

That’d be like a catch 22 now, wouldn’t it?

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
3:05 pm

Take from a different perspective then, this for the francouer piners, his net return for the Braves was Ryan frakin Church for cryin out loud! that’s all Frenchy was worth!, he was a freebie to Texas, and a freebie to KC. does that say enough! why in the world would a contender like Atlanta want him back?

Carroll Rogers

November 4th, 2011
3:06 pm

Owl Hunter, that’s one thing I’m hearing from the Royals side is Myers would be a hefty price for them. He was their second-rated prospect behind Eric Hosmer last year.

Stinger2

November 4th, 2011
3:06 pm

The Braves need a power hiting left fielder. They need to do whatever is necessary to get one. Who? Only Wren and his people know. As a fan its not up to me to make the right trade to make it happen.It is Wren who gets paid to do this.

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:07 pm

JoeBrave

I agree. Francouer has always done better in no-pressure situations. He is not a regular on a contending team.

pryguy

November 4th, 2011
3:07 pm

If Prado goes, I think I’ll have to really re-consider my loyalty to the Braves. I think Martin brings intangibles to this team that is worth much more than an extra 5-10 homers a year. Martin is the type of player that makes me proud to follow this team. Hard-working, modest, team-first player. He is extremely grateful for his opportunity and always makes sure he is doing his best to take advantage of it.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
3:07 pm

anyone know the final payroll numbers for the braves in 2011?

DS1

November 4th, 2011
3:08 pm

DAP

I want good hitters. Guys with decent batting averages that can work the count and take a walk. If that guy is a lefty, then so be it.

I do not discriminate against lefties. Personally, I am a switch hitter myself.

Switch hitters untie!

:wink:

ncscoots

November 4th, 2011
3:08 pm

I’d rather trade JJ than have him leave soon and get nothing back.

That’s the absolute worst way to look at it. Trading him (or any other home-grown player) before FA means giving away those years of performance when the player is nominally at his peak pre-FA performance, and replacing those years with with nothing (if you trade for prospects) or lesser performance (no one is going to trade you an equally valuable pre-FA player, since neither team benefits from such a trade). You also give away those years at their highest value, because of the years’ relatively lower cost.

There are any number of reasons a player such as Jurrjens might be traded pre-FA, but doing it because you think might end up without recompense if he walks…that’s not a reason.

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:08 pm

Carroll

You’re probably right, but Dayton sure does love former Braves!

Murph

November 4th, 2011
3:08 pm

NickB, I honestly don’t know much about either Cain or Willingham, only what I could glean from a quick glance at their stat pages on baseball-reference and a few games seen of Willingham against the Braves over the years..

The fact that Cain got all the way up to AAA before spending the next year at rookie ball/A/AA sends up a red flag. Was he hurt? Why the drastic steps backwards? Also, he’s 25 and still doesn’t look like he’s ready to face MLB pitching.

Willingham seems like he’d be out of the Braves price range, and at 32, isn’t all that likely to maintain his production for the duration of the contract that he’ll get. There’s something else about him, having watched him play against the Braves both with FLA and WSH, that I just don’t like. Not sure what it is, I just know I don’t like him. Could be his hairdo for all I know. I just don’t like him.

Snotboogie

November 4th, 2011
3:10 pm

DS1

Yes, kinda my point there.
Which ended up being a “whoosh”.

cricket

November 4th, 2011
3:11 pm

ncscoots

Come on man, JJJ will never be as legendary as Kyle Farnsworth with his puny K/9 numbers..

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:11 pm

pryguy

I like Prado too, but intangibles mean nothing when you’re hurt all the time. He’s a great guy, by all accounts, but he’s not worth giving up on your favorite team for. In my opinion, nobody is.

DS1

November 4th, 2011
3:11 pm

Joe

We can sit here and try to figure out the Braves payroll for last year and what it’s shaping up to be this year, but why?

Doesn’t change a thing knowing. They will spend what they are comfortable spending.

TDub

November 4th, 2011
3:11 pm

If your loyalty to the Braves will be lost because of trading a single player, then wow, I’m not sure what to say to that. I love Prado too, but I’m not quite that fickle.

bobbymahlon

November 4th, 2011
3:14 pm

I can see trading JJ because he has Boros as an agent but not Prado. If Prado was playing second base everybody would say hitting .300 with 13 home runs would be ok and Uggla playing left field with 36 would be great but when they reverse positions 13 home runs in left field is no good even though both ways you have the same amount of home runs.
The people they are talking about like Crisp ,Willingham etc are certainly not any improvement over JJ and Martin.
Remember we finished just two games from being in the playoffs so lets not screw up our chances of making it next year by trading good players for has beens and untried rookies.

Efrim

November 4th, 2011
3:14 pm

hm…cant go with you there man. thats not the same thing. we need offense because 80% of the team had bad years, not because they are old/hurt and retiring or moving on. we dont need a bat the same way we needed an arm.

Wren has already said offense in the outfield is a need. So much a need that he may be willing to dump Jurrjens and Prado so that he can find that sort of hitter for LF.

JoeBrave

November 4th, 2011
3:15 pm

DS1, that was my point all along, yet some never seem to grasp that, not being facetious as some here are, just saying find a little something more to fill the blog with but budgets , francouer, and rehashing the Tex trade and blaming wren for it, all of these things have nothing to do with the 2012 Braves!
Now, i am still going to refrain from being an @ss to certain individuals that want to push buttons by thinking they are smarter than their bankruptcy attorney.:)

@Fredo

November 4th, 2011
3:16 pm

AJC,

Prado and JJ on the trade block? I had heard that.

Yours,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkyskI13KOs

Owl Hunter

November 4th, 2011
3:16 pm

pryguy

You should be a Phillies fan. Most of them have only been into baseball for three years anyway. They have as little need for loyalty as you do.

cricket

November 4th, 2011
3:16 pm

Prado would’ve won GG and silver slugger only if we still had Brayan Pena…

RC

November 4th, 2011
3:17 pm

If your loyalty to the Braves will be lost because of trading a single player, then wow, I’m not sure what to say to that. I love Prado too, but I’m not quite that fickle.

While my loyalty is more to the Braves than a single player, I wouldn’t hold it against anyone who DOES prefer to be a fan of a single player over a team. When you thinking about it, it’s actually more logical to be a fan of an individual person than it is to be a fan of a business entity. What makes the Braves what they are are the people, from those on the field, to those making personel decisions, down to those scouts who find more people to put on the field. If you aren’t a fan of any of those things, you are pretty much just cheering for a piece of landry with “Braves” written on the front.

Around The Horn

November 4th, 2011
3:17 pm

WREN’S NEED TO MAKE A TRADE

Frank seemingly has more of a need to make a trade than the Braves have for him to make a trade.

Would the Braves have Jeff Francoeur and Yunel Escobar back, our off season player needs would essentially be met, as both players had fine offensive years in 2011.

And now Frank is making Jurrjens and Prado available. A bad idea Frank, a very bad idea.

Why trade fan favorites again and again?

Pick up the players you feel you need from the free agent market. But please stop making these kinds of trades!

Wisdom and discernment are much more valuable traits than that of ceaseless activity — when it comes to the Braves roster.

Stop simply being active Frank. You don’t have to do something simply for the sake of doing something. You don’t have to try to prove to anyone that you’re a valuable GM in this way.

These trades will come back and bite you, just like they have in the past.

The grass really isn’t always greener on the other side, as you’ve now certainly discovered with Francoeur and Escobar.

Stop it Frank. Again, please stop making these trades!

Tomas

November 4th, 2011
3:17 pm

It really comes down to what would they receive, and what would they do with the extra cash

RC

November 4th, 2011
3:18 pm

Lots of misspellings in my last post, but I have to at least correct “laundry”. My bad.

PMC

November 4th, 2011
3:18 pm

It wouls suck to lose Prado as hard as he works and as much as he sacrifices for the team. He’s 10 times the defensive second baseman that Uggla is and he just packed up and moved to the outfield where obviously he had a bad year just because the Braves asked.

DAP - Lefties Unite!!!

November 4th, 2011
3:19 pm

efrim, and you think beltran is the hitting equivalent of derek lowe?

P-Town Brave ©

November 4th, 2011
3:19 pm

Scoots-

Why?

IF the Braves feel like they can get better than a Type A pick for Jurrjens then why not have at it….

And that is if Jurrjens were to stay VERY healthy over the next couple years and perform at a high level…

Sounds now though as if Myers is shooting too high.

Billy

November 4th, 2011
3:20 pm

If Wren can get Lorenzo Cain and Wil Myers then do it now!! Both have all the tools.. speed, arm. defence, hitting skills, baseball smarts.. do it Wren.

Efrim

November 4th, 2011
3:21 pm

that’s one thing I’m hearing from the Royals side is Myers would be a hefty price for them. He was their second-rated prospect behind Eric Hosmer last year.

Yup, and that’s where I start to lose interest. I guess I’m only for trading Jurrjens if we’re fleecing someone.. ;) Myers is a little heavy for Jurrjens. Cain probably fits more with what KC is willing to do. However, I’d want more if I were Wren.

Man, Dayton stated his need to get pitching and that he is willing to trade prospects for pitching. Since everyone knows Hosmer, Moustakas and the other young pitchers they have are off limits, people are going to go right to Wil Myers who is coming off of a injury hindering year. I’d much rather have Wil Myers than Lorenzo Cain.

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