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407 comments Add your comment
Jordan
October 31st, 2011
9:01 pm
http://isportsweb.com/2011/10/31/braves-wheel-and-deal-to-start-offseason/
The Hawk man
October 31st, 2011
9:07 pm
Don’t ask me why but I love when dumb players get traded to Milwaukee or Cleveland… lol
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
9:08 pm
Wilford D. Iabeeetus…..right on with your 7:51pm post. Sadly, but not surprising, many on here hate on Bobby Valentine.
So what if Bobby V. is an arrogant jerk? I’ll take the arrogant jerk who manages an inferior 2000 Mets team to the World Series (despite the Braves having the superior team talent wise every year that he managed the Mets)….than the likeable, Bobby Cox clone who helplessly managed a team who blew a 10 1/2 game lead.
Bobby V. would not have stood by and not shaken up the “uh, we hit it right at them/we play hard” BS excuses that have become the standard mantra that the Atlanta press eats up like flies on shyt.
It should be interesting to see what direction the Cardinals go in their managerial search.
Greg O.
October 31st, 2011
9:08 pm
I think clearly the most prudent option for the No. 5 spot, at least at the outset of the season, would be Mike Minor. He’s the most experienced of the group at the MLB level, has little-to-nothing left to prove at AAA, and allows the Braves to send Teheran and Delgado back to Gwinnett for further seasoning while potentially delaying their service time and super two eligibility. Not to mention that he gives the Braves rotation an otherwise-absent presence of a left-handed starter.
reckingball
October 31st, 2011
9:21 pm
Calling a BS(as in cow feces) on the 8:42pm and 9:14pm comments.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
9:24 pm
By the way, because Braves management caved in to public sentiment and had Jason Heyward open the 2010 season on the ML roster……he becomes eligible for salary arbitration aefter the 2012 season
Buster Posey, the 2010 Rookie of the Year who led the Giants to the World Series in 2010…..wont be eligible for arbitration until after the 2013 season, because the Giants were smart enough to wait until late May of 2010 to call him up.
If Heyward doesnt turn it around in 2012, the Braves will either have to send him down sometime this year (meaning that he isnt contributing)…or they will have to face the decision on risking having to pay him Kelly Johnson like money despite having a terrible two year run.
Heyward has a big gap in his swing. MLB pitching figured out how to pitch him (bust him inside all day long). If he cant get his arms extended, he’s a slow roller to second waiting to happen.
reckingball
October 31st, 2011
9:26 pm
Calling another BS on the 7:51pm and 9:08pm comments.
If ya’ll love that weasel so much, invite him to move in with you, the Braves sure don’t need someone like Valentine as a manager.
I can’t stand the sight of him.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
9:27 pm
reckingball…….Are you saying that Bobby Cox going all Ike Turner on his wife back in 1995 is BS?
Are you saying that Derek Lowe cheating on his wife and using the streets Atlanta as his personal drag racing track is BS?
That_BK_DOOD
October 31st, 2011
9:32 pm
Don’t let the doorknob hit him in the arse on the way out. Toodles. Don’t come back now, ya hear?
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
9:34 pm
TechRon…….while I agree with your 8:52pm post about the Braves needing to clean house from a management perspective…..I have to say that it aint happening. They stuck with Bobby Cox all those years, despite having superior talent (we should have PUNISHED the 1996 Yankees, as well as the 1997 Marlins and the 1998 Padres…not to mention the 2003 Cubs).
Fredo Gonzo, sadly, is here to stay. Our (true Braves fans who want to see the Braves WIN, instead of catering to some sentimental BS that a number of Braves fans have on here) only hope is that Liberty decides to sell the Braves to someone like Mark Cuban…and then hope he cleans house and hires people whose #1 goal is WINNING!
Until then, we’re going to see repeats of what happened in 2011.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
9:37 pm
reckingball……you’re typical of many so-called Braves fans on here: You’d rather see the Braves LOSE with an INEPT manager like Fredo Gonzo (because you like him personally)….than to see the Braves WIN with a JERK like Bobby Valentine (because you cant stand to see him?).
Again, I could care less how much of a jerk Bobby V. is. What matters most to me is if he can manage us to victory (or at least manage in a way that doesnt allow his team to blow a 10 1/2 game lead).
Say Its True
October 31st, 2011
9:39 pm
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
Very well put.
reckingball
October 31st, 2011
9:42 pm
I do not profess to be a judge or a jury.
Did Cox stand trial and was he convicted, or did he confess. What was his punishment?
I believe that all charges were dropped against Lowe in the driving incident, after the DA’s office viewed the police video of the arrest, or am I wrong about that? That is the main thing I am calling a BS on.
As far as him cheating on his wife, I don’t know anything about that, as I am not a gossip monger, and I don’t read the tabloids. Also, I could care less about it.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
9:48 pm
So far, we have $11.25 mil of dead money slotted for 2012 (Lowe $10 mil, McLouth’s buyout). Not much of an improvement on Kawacrappy’s $7 mil of dead 2011 salary.
If the Braves arent going to spend serious cash on a free agent like Pujols or Reyes…then I hope that Braves stand pat economically and wait for the 2012 off season to spend money (when Chipper’s $14 mil, the $10 mil that the Braves are now responsible for paying Lowe, as well as Hudson’s $9 mil all come off the books). While Hudson is still a capable ML pitcher, he’ll be turning 37 years old in the middle of 2012 …..and the Braves will have cheaper, much younger replacements waiting in the wings.
Peter
October 31st, 2011
9:50 pm
Just another reason to get rid of the GM !
Guthro
October 31st, 2011
9:58 pm
Seven excellent arms not counting Medlen remain for the rotation–Hudson, Jurrjens, Hansen, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, Teheran.
Eight excellent arms for the bullpen: Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Medlen, Vizcaino, Varvaro, Martinez, Moylan, with Hoover & Gearrin ready to fill in.
The cleanup hitter hit .230 with RISP. Nobody had more than 82 RBIs. Chipper can’t be counted on for more than 100 games. With the $5mil they get for Lowe, they could trade a healthy Jurrjens (who makes about $3mil) early in the season for a $8 mil run producer.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
10:00 pm
Say Its True……..thanks for the 9:39pm post.
Many on here hate on and ridicule the Mets. They reviled in the Mets 2007 collapse. However, they have every excuse in the book for defending the Braves organization and players for the Sept. 2011 collapse (with the exception of Larry Parrish, the hitting coach).
Instead, they blame injuries (even though the Philllies and Cardinals were ravished by injuries as well)…..as well as blaming the Phillies for not beating the Cardinals “for us”.
My personal favorite is many on here criticizing the Phillies for playing “hard” against us the last 3 games of the season.
Some of you are a joke on here, lol! We DESERVED to lose out on the playoffs. It was a collective effort. Management and the players BOTH tanked and choked.
reckingball
October 31st, 2011
10:00 pm
Well, I never said that I liked Fredi G. or that I thought that he was a great manager. He made some very strange moves during the season imo, and I don’t think that he backed his players up like he should have in many instances.
But, I would take him anyday over Bobby Valentine.
What guarantee do you have that Bobby Valentine can manage a team to victory, or that he could have managed the Braves into the playoffs this past season.
The reason that the Braves did not make it to the playoffs, and that the bullpen was overused and that they played so many extra innings in 2011, was their failure to hit with RISP.
I don’t believe that Bobby Valentine could not have made them hit any better.
And finally, if Bobby Valentine is such a great manager, why isn’t he managing a team now, or why hasn’t he managed a MLB team since the Mets ran him off? It’s not because he doesn’t want to, is it?
Over and OUT.
JoeBrave
October 31st, 2011
10:05 pm
Kawakami 8.0 mill gone
McLouth 7.75 mill gone
Lowe 5.0 mill gone
Linestink-1.5 mill gone
Sherrill 2.0 mill gone
Gonzalez 2.5 mill GONE!
Brooks Conrad-.459,000 gone
Peter Moylan 2.5 Mill Gone!
29.75 million off the books right there, Looks like the LYING has begun already, there is no way in hell Prado, Jurrjens, Hanson, get 19 mill of this money! I am calling BULL S.H.I.T! 10 mill to spend my ass!
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
10:05 pm
Guthro………..great 9:58pm post about the depth of our starting pitching, as well as the bullpen. Frank Wren will have some interesting decisions on what direction he wants to go on improving the offense.
Too bad there’s not much flexibility on improving the manager’s position.
JoeBrave
October 31st, 2011
10:08 pm
Not counting the real possibility that Bourne gets re-upped at 8.75 leaving 21 mill, arb raises should be no more than 8.5 mill leaving 12.5 to spend with the likely extraction of either Jurrjens, Prado, or possibl both! And what of McCann? Catcher’s wear out, he is definitely not 25 anymore, I would expect some blockbuster getting rid of the doughboy too!
JoeBrave
October 31st, 2011
10:09 pm
How’s this one…
Yankees get
McCann/Minor
Braves get
Laird
Nunez
Montero
Nova
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
10:09 pm
reckingball………actually, Valentine has had offers to manage. The Marlins wanted him last year. However, he simply would rather make easy money working for ESPN, then manage in a bad situation (which the Marlins are).
He also passed on the Cubs opening last year as well.
Valentine may have a big ego. However, I dont blame him for holding out on a better situation coming along (which the Cardinals would be).
JoeBrave
October 31st, 2011
10:10 pm
Prince Fielder gonna look real good in the Giants Uniform
JoeBrave
October 31st, 2011
10:12 pm
Reyes to Philly
Furcal to Mets
Rollins to Cinncinnati
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
10:13 pm
JoeBrave…….McCann would be better suited for the American League because his bat wouldnt need to be out of the line-up on days he doesnt catch, with the DH.
However, the Braves are not going to trade him. He’s going to spend his whole career with the Braves, like Chipper Jones has.
Say Its True
October 31st, 2011
10:14 pm
By the end of the season, every team that tries amount to a hill of beans are injured and tired. The owners could care less as long as they get their money. Upper management make one lame excuse after another. I don’t know why Wren let FG kill us by using Lowe like he did, or just let him hang himself and use it to let him go. The thing that sticks with me most is when Huddy was hurt, and FG would not even look up. Made no attempt to even go to the mound until sometime later. He did not back his players, seemed to not even be in the park, let alone the game. We deserve better.
The collapse of the Braves is fully on his back. Our players know what to do, but I think confusion ran rampant.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
10:16 pm
JoeBrave….the Giants are going to have a hard time affording Fielder. Barry Zito’s $18 mil a year contract, along with raises due Linecum…as well as Matt Cain being a free agent……pretty much eliminates them from the bidding war.
David O'Brien
October 31st, 2011
10:19 pm
DOB, Is there any thought in the organization of putting Prado at SS? — A.D.
No, because as we’ve said a bunch, it’s his worst position of those he plays. He’s not an every-day shortstop.
invictus mon
October 31st, 2011
10:20 pm
JoeBrave….you were right on with your math, but what to do with it is more than shaky…you’d have us strip down and just rebuild. Nah, weakness is SS, part time 3B, and RF (which if we can get Constanza working there would be fixed). Somewhere in one of those fixes (obviously preferably all) there’s gotta be a live bat. After what we saw at the trade deadline, I’ve gotta believe that Wren has a definite plan and a quiet target. We’ve got almost $30M to spend before having to ask Liberty Media for more money. More than enough to fix those problems. Remember…we only need to rent a SS because Pastornicky will be up after this year.
Say Its True
October 31st, 2011
10:22 pm
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees. You do know your baseball. All your posts are worth the read.
invictus mon
October 31st, 2011
10:22 pm
And as I said earlier about the trade…whoever we get with that 5M saved you can pretty much count as part of the trade, so we don’t really know what all we got for taking out the trash yet.
Over-Reacting Idiots
October 31st, 2011
10:24 pm
Lowe stunk it up at times, especially this past season but some idiots here talk about him like he’s a child molester or something!
He lost his talent. His skills are fading. But the fact is he’s a decent guy and great competitor who no longer has the talent he once posessed. That doesn’t make him a bad guy!
I’m glad the Braves were able to move him and save some of his salary, but I’m sad he didn’t work out because he was a stand up guy who gave it 100%
Lowe stunk it up but was making all his starts when JJ and Tommy Hanson were trying to decide if they continued to feel phantom twinges in their shoulders/knees when the tests showed they were ok.
I’m sure Boros was advising them to take it easy and not risk ANYTHING even if there were no problems with them physically.
So Lowe is gone but I don’t dislike or hate him. He tried to do his job and showed up and worked hard. Which is more than I can say for some of the young guys on the staff!
reckingball
October 31st, 2011
10:28 pm
You can say what you want about Lowe, but he would always sweat it out on his day to play. That’s a joke, son.
We made the September 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 31st, 2011
10:44 pm
I wonder if Yankee fans bothered themselves with whether the 1977 and 1978 Yankee teams had good clubhouse chemistry? Billy Martin wasnt exactly a “good” guy personality wise, nor were many of his stars who fought each other.
What matters most is WINNING! These guys are paid millions to play and win. Period.
Ken Stallings
October 31st, 2011
10:53 pm
That’s as good a trade as Wren could have worked for Lowe. Time to move on and put the $5 million saved toward trying to sign a free agent left fielder.
Ken
ohhhhYEAH
October 31st, 2011
10:58 pm
So the Indians didnt bring Seizmore back…….any chance we can maybe throw that 5mil at him and see what happens? should be a decent price IF he can stay healthy.
ohhhhYEAH
October 31st, 2011
11:00 pm
If we can sign him to a one or two year deal maybe with an option for a third, that would give time for Chipper to come off the books, and will be paying league min for our SS in waiting Pastornicky, should clear a little money for him if he proves to be as productive as before and can stay healthy
TCA
October 31st, 2011
11:18 pm
Good bye to Lowe. He was very useful even if he never earned the ace money.
The Braves overpaid but they could have made a bigger mistake by getting burnett for 5 years for $82mm.
Does it matter?
October 31st, 2011
11:26 pm
Can the Hawks pull this off with Joe Johnson?
The Man
October 31st, 2011
11:27 pm
I love how Wren tries to justify the abysmal signing of Lowe. “He did exactly what we wanted him to do.” What a bunch of bulls–t. The Braves paid $15 million a year for a .500 pitcher (on a good team) with a 4.57 ERA. An ERA over 4.50 in the National League is awful for a $2 million a year veteran ham and egger. For someone making $15 million, it is grand larceny. Wren, be a man and admit the signing was a mistake, same as Kawakami.
Runnin with the Dawgs
October 31st, 2011
11:53 pm
Another good move by the front office. lt’ll be interesting to see who they bring on to replace him.
keyboy
November 1st, 2011
12:06 am
Enter your comments here
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
12:07 am
Dan Uggla should be required to kick in a couple million of what we gotta pay of Lowe’s contract ’cause a better defender at his postition makes Lowe look a LITTLE less unbearable. How many times this year did we hear, “Juuust out of the reach of Dan Uggla!” from Chip Carey (hate that guy) during games when Lowe was pitching? Trust me, it was a lot.
Would all the guys who recently read Moneyball please stop whining about OBP? All of us who understand the game pretty well are aware of it’s importance, but that isn’t alway the first stat you should look at for every player, some really great RBI guys don’t have a great OBP. It’s not the be-all, end-all stat, Brad Pitt man-lovers notwithstanding…
keyboy
November 1st, 2011
12:09 am
Some idiot stole my screen name.WTF
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
12:13 am
The Man: agreed, nice post…
buster brave
November 1st, 2011
12:13 am
q,wren a magician? he’s the dumbass who who signed the washed up $15 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR,FOR 4 YEARS!!! in the 1st place,not to mention the time and millions on KAWAKAMI !!!! anybody who thinks wren is a magician is a dumbass too. what made lowe disappear was his pitiful performance the last 3 yrs. POOF!!!!
primetime Curtis
November 1st, 2011
12:16 am
Braves future looking bright and good.sorry bout d Lowe hope he does good in Cleveland.
Prissy
November 1st, 2011
2:11 am
The best to you, D. Lowe; I, for one, appreciate the work you put in for the Braves. I hope the Indians will be a good change of scenery for you.
HG
November 1st, 2011
2:20 am
Glad to see this deal get done. Lowe had to go.. However, it won’t surprise me at all if he wins 15 games with the Indians next season. He still has decent stuff, and maybe a change in scenery will help him get his game back together. Good luck to him, but more importantly, GO BRAVES.
NickB
November 1st, 2011
4:27 am
Braves an since the 80’s, let me tell you something kid, I’ve been watching baseball (and played it for a loong time as well)for 34 years , OBP isn’t the best thing to look at a player, actually that would probably be wOBA or RC+ , but those are probably too arcane for you. But OBP IS the best thing a hitter can do. a Hitter that doesn’t get on base regularly isn’t a good player. If you hit .300 but have a .320 OBP you are a lesser hitter than a guy who hits .280 with a .370 OBP. Plain and simple, not making outs is whats important. Outs are the currency of baseball. Is it a coincidence that every single season that I have checked since the 40’s that the top 4 or 5 teams in OBP happen to be the top 4 or 5 teams in runs scored? I would think not!!!
RBI’s….. the most overrated stat in baseball. RBI’s have been PROVEN to be based on the quality of the people who hit in front of you to get on base (combined with your own ability to get on base and hit for power) if you take 2 power hitters with OPS of .900 each and put one on the Mariners and the other on the Yankees guess who gets more RBI’s? Does that mean player B is better cuz he got 120 RBI’s and player A only got 84? Nope , it means Player A played on a better team!
Please, please stop using the stats off the back of the baseball cards…. They only tell a part of the total story that is hitting. I know it’s hard to let these things go, I’m 38 years old , I scoffed at the new stats at first too! But they are BETTER at not only showing who performed best, but at predicting future performances as well.
BTW to the Constanza lovers who claimed he was the spark that led to the winning streak. Ummm, the Braves led the NL in HR’s during that time. It wasn’t scrappy hitting and baserunning that won it, it was the long ball. Constanza’s peripheral stats show that not only was he very lucky (.441 babip against lefties) but when he rashed he crashed hard (he regressed to the mean in the ensuing 38 AB’s to the tune of a .188 avg .188 OBP and a .188 slg%) in other words ,he was not good at all. He’s a career minor leaguer, he’s not a good defender. He’s an avg base stealer. He’d be a good 4th OF’er for a team that won’t contend but he has no place on a good team like the Braves.
NickB
November 1st, 2011
4:28 am
Player B I mean… dadburn no edit button
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
6:41 am
good situational hitters recognize that sometimes an out still can be productive which NEVER helps your OBP. A sac fly that scores a game-winning run is a highly useful tool in baseball, something the Braves were sadly lacking this season. Sac-fly’s don’t help OBP. Like I said, I along with everybody else who understand baseball pretty well value OBP, but it can be a misleading stat about the same as any other. On the flip side, what if you’ve got a handful of guys with pretty good OBP and they have a disturbing habit of only hitting when no one is in front of them on the bases (sound familiar to any Atlanta fans?) and rarely with RISP? Like I said, I understand that OBP has its place, but I for one would never base the acquisition or removal of a player on my team on that stat alone, a lot of other factors must be considered…Tired baseball card comments aside…
Arkie
November 1st, 2011
7:10 am
Good Luck D. Lowe. You took the ball every 5th day and did your best. Hope you win many games for the Indians. I hope Management has learned something about long term contracts, renting players, etc. Pitching should be better in 2012 – but you have to score runs to win. Need some power, more speed and defense. Go Braves
STATS MAN
November 1st, 2011
7:12 am
One down (Lowe), one to go (Chipper) !
Stephen Frazier
November 1st, 2011
7:37 am
The Braves don’t NEED a Jose Reyes OR Prince Fielder. They do need a SS with a little more offense, but it would likely cost 15-20 million for Fielder and there is not a 15 million dollar difference between what Fielder would add to the team and what Freddie Freeman already gives us.
Stephen Frazier
November 1st, 2011
7:51 am
JoeBrave, you are out of your mind if you think the Yankees would give up Montero, Nunez and Nova for McCann and Minor. Nova all by himself is fair trade for McCann/Minor, Nunez is Alex Gonzalez with offense added, and Montero will be within five years tone of the best catchers in baseball, Yours would be a GREAT deal for the Braves, bu t he Yanks didn’t win all those rings being STUPID.
Swede
November 1st, 2011
8:00 am
Very well put, NickB!
don
November 1st, 2011
8:16 am
Signing Lowe to a ridiculous contract was just one of many blunders by the management of the Braves.
bill
November 1st, 2011
8:18 am
DOB I am confused we got rid of Mclouth’s millions and now 5 mill with dlow and 15 mill with Kawakami. How does that equal 10 mill available for signings?
bill
November 1st, 2011
8:20 am
Maybe this is Karma from the Len Barker deal or maybe C. Liebrandt and the ghost of home runs past. Cleaveland always seems to outfox us.
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
8:25 am
Swede: why was that “well put”? It’s the same tired argument that every “baseball fan” who just got through reading Moneyball keeps spouting on here. How many WS titles does Billy Beane have? Hm?
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
8:26 am
bill: Arbitration raises should account for the remainder.
Donovan
November 1st, 2011
8:30 am
Lowe once was good when he was playing for Boston. They knew something when they traded him away. Acquiring players on their past accomplishments is a risky retread plan. Now that this retread is gone from the system we need to put emphasis on Medlen. Forget about JJ and Hanson. We need to trade Hanson for someone else while he is still fooling everyone that he a quality arm. JJ is another imposter who has the same health problems that Hampton had. Trade him for a hitting prospect.
Sharon
November 1st, 2011
8:49 am
That’s what I am talking about Lowe had to GO go fast is better it hurt to watch him pitch I know that loseing is a team effort and loss is a loss he was a killer evertime he pitched the Braves went deeper and deeper into a deep hole and long losing street he set up the loseing street I do wish him well not with the Braves,,,,,,,,, The healing has begun this Day all has got Better on to the next move I am looking over the Roster who else needs to Go go will discuss that Tommorrow…………..
STATS MAN
November 1st, 2011
8:53 am
trade Hudson (final year) and get a BIG BAT for LF !
Lemke's Knuckler
November 1st, 2011
8:54 am
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2011/10/2011-chris-jones-scouting-report.html
Link to scouting report on Chris Jones. I like the fact Jones best pitch is the curveball. Both O’Flaherty and Venters throw sliders, so it would be nice to be able to mix in a different look from the left side. Nice potential. You can never go wrong trading for left handed pitching. Might be another Eric O’Flaherty type of find.
Lemke's Knuckler
November 1st, 2011
9:01 am
“DOB I am confused we got rid of Mclouth’s millions and now 5 mill with dlow and 15 mill with Kawakami. How does that equal 10 mill available for signings?”
First off, it’s only $7mil for Kawakami that’s getting freed up. Second, players don’t make the same each year. Uggla makes $4mil more, McCann makes $2mil more, plus you have raises through arbitration for Prado, Jurrjens, O’Flaherty and Bourn that should total at least another $5mil. Also, the McLouth buyout takes away another $1.3mil.
Yes, we freed up about $20mil between Kawakami, Lowe and McLouth, but you take away contract increases and arbitration raises, and you’re right around the $10mil everyone is talking about.
Google “cots baseball contracts” and that might help explain it more.
reason
November 1st, 2011
9:12 am
It’s a very good start…..
Chipper is a Redneck
November 1st, 2011
9:14 am
What a terrible trade. Paying Lowe $10mm NOT to pitch for us, instead of $15mm to pitch for us. WOW.
Chipper is a Redneck
November 1st, 2011
9:16 am
NickB – excellent dissertation on OBP and RBI’s. How do you feel about “wins” for pitchers? HA! Don’t get me started!!! Let’s evaluate pitchers based on their TEAM’S OFFENSE AND DEFENSE!!! That makes a lot of sense!!!!!
Chipper is a Redneck
November 1st, 2011
9:20 am
“He gave us 31 wins the first two years,” Wren said. “If you told me I could sign a free agent that averaged a little over 15 wins a year, you’d take it every time. He did exactly what we wanted him to do. This year, he had a tough time at the finish. But he still won nine games and won 40 in three years.”
WOW, what a tool Frank Wren is. Still evaluating pitchers on the irrelevant “win” statistic. “Wins” are earned by TEAMS, Frank, not players who have no control over their own team’s defense or offense. Go out and sign pitchers who have had great defense and run support. I’m sure they will be sterling pitchers for the Braves. You idiot.
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
9:30 am
still doesn’t negate the fact that a good RBI guy might not have a great OBP guys, and who’s gonna scoff at 120 RBI’s? Anybody?
DAWGWORLD
November 1st, 2011
9:33 am
Bring back Furcal at SS
Doug
November 1st, 2011
9:34 am
I wish D. Lowe the best. He was just what we needed the first two years. I personally believe he was struggling with personal issues this year and after all he is human. It resulted in him having a really bad year. I hope he recovers from whatever he was struggling with this year and has a great year for Cleveland next year.
Thanks D. Lowe for your time with the Braves!
wjones
November 1st, 2011
9:39 am
“MiaBchBravesFan
October 31st, 2011
6:44 pm
Most Type A people are butt craters; that said, I’d kill to have had Tony L managing the Bravos. He won two this half decade!
Bobby won one – 16 years ago; seems like 32.”
Yes, and in the first 27 years of LaRussa’s career, HE, the genius, only won one World Series, despite having the best team at least 4 of those years. The two teams he won with this year and in 2006 were much weaker than many of the teams he lost with. Did he suddenly become a genius, or is it a matter of luck/opportunity?
wjones
November 1st, 2011
9:44 am
“Chipper is a Redneck
November 1st, 2011
9:14 am
What a terrible trade. Paying Lowe $10mm NOT to pitch for us, instead of $15mm to pitch for us. WOW.”
So, based on his performance this season, you’d rather pay him $15 million, keep him in the rotation, keep Minor in the minors due to no spots in the rotation, and risk Lowe pitching the same or worse than in 2011? Wren disagrees with you, and so do I. I’d rather pocket $5 million, WHICH WE CAN USE TO IMPROVE THE TEAM! In addition, we have rid ourselves of our least productive starting pitcher, and replaced him with a young pitcher with a good upside. Don’t understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.
TeheranTime
November 1st, 2011
9:47 am
So far we have traded Derek Lowe and I have read the suggestions that we trade JJ and Tim Hudson. What say we trade the ONLY strength the team had last season- pitching- and make this an even worse team?
wjones
November 1st, 2011
9:50 am
“Donovan
November 1st, 2011
8:30 am
Lowe once was good when he was playing for Boston. They knew something when they traded him away. Acquiring players on their past accomplishments is a risky retread plan. Now that this retread is gone from the system we need to put emphasis on Medlen. Forget about JJ and Hanson. We need to trade Hanson for someone else while he is still fooling everyone that he a quality arm. JJ is another imposter who has the same health problems that Hampton had. Trade him for a hitting prospect.”
The Braves may very well try to trade either Jurrjens or Hanson. Don’t think they would try to trade both, that would be a bit silly. But trading either at this point would, in my opinion, send out a red flag that there was something very wrong with these guys, since they ended the season on the DL. Which would result in the Braves getting a poor return on them. My take on this is that the Braves will hope they can get them through a season, hope they retain their health, then see what the market is like. But yeah, I don’t see both of them staying. Not sure how the Hudson thing will end. Might he retire when this contract is up? Do a short-term extension just to stay close to home? With our young pitching coming up, it will be interesting to watch.
lovetravel
November 1st, 2011
9:51 am
It’s sound like everyone agree with everything. I don’t agree with nothing and I am confused. How can everyone laugh or be happy about this? I dont see nothing to laugh or be happy about it. Pitcher or out fielder or Short stop or whatever you call is, won’t bring anything happy for braves. You got to work hard to do somethng instead of spend money for a player. Good Luck next year
lovetravel
November 1st, 2011
9:52 am
Who Care about change player!! All in all they got to play hard to do better job than worry who good and better. other team can be much better than Braves so all i can say good luck next year
Lemke's Knuckler
November 1st, 2011
9:57 am
JoeBrave @ 10:05 pm, “29.75 million off the books right there, Looks like the LYING has begun already, there is no way in hell Prado, Jurrjens, Hanson, get 19 mill of this money! I am calling BULL S.H.I.T! 10 mill to spend my ass!”
I made some edits to account for your lack of knowledge and poor math skills…
Kawakami 7.4 mil saved
McLouth 7.75 mil – 1.3 mil buyout = 6.5 mil saved
Lowe 5.0 mil saved
Linebrink 2.0 mil saved
Sherrill 1.2 mil saved
Gonzalez 2.5 mil saved
Brooks Conrad 0.5 mil saved
Peter Moylan 2.5 mil saved
Total savings of $27.6 mil
Uggla – raise of $4 mil
McCann – raise of $2 mil
projections for Bourn, Prado, O’Flaherty and Jurrjens through arbitration is about $21 mil (they made combined $11 mil this year), so a net increase of $10 mil
Total payroll increase of $16 mil.
That’s $11.6 mil by my math, which actually includes a little research and facts. And you also have to take into account bumps in the rookie pay scale for players that haven’t reached arbitration yet.
So you’re probably right around the $10 mil everyone keeps talking about.
skep
November 1st, 2011
10:06 am
I hope Wren is learning something from his many free agent and trade mistakes. I think that the Braves were out negotiated in the Lowe deal. I can’t be believe that any other team would have given him 4 years or 60 mil. Let’s not overpay for old talent. We aren’t the Yankees and look where that got them.
John A.
November 1st, 2011
10:45 am
Thanks Derek. Wish you much success at Cleveland. Will be pulling for you.
Stephen Frazier
November 1st, 2011
10:50 am
WAIT A MINUTE!!! Does this mean the Braves just paid ten million dollars for CHRIS JONES!!!
WTF???
celgyhole
November 1st, 2011
10:54 am
I read in the Cleveland newspaper that a lot of Lowe’s 17 losses could be attributed to the Braves leaky infield defense….Lots a luck there…..Lowe’s 17 losses is because his sinker didn’t sink, he pitched in the middle of the plate, and he could barely hit 90 anymore. I hope he enjoys drag racing in downtown Cleveland while drunk.
Brad
November 1st, 2011
11:14 am
Why would any sane person think paying a pitcher 55 million dollars to win 40 games to be a good deal/ That looks like Obama thinking! Then cap it off by getting the two Japanese pitchers. Please don`t let Wren deal for any more pitchers! And I`m not sure he should be a part of hiring a batting coach! In fact I have not seen a whole lot of ability in getting quality baseball talent for the Braves!
74bravesjersey
November 1st, 2011
11:43 am
Hey guys;1st time blogger,been a long time brave follower since 76′. I hear what ya sayin’, I hope Wren can use good wise descretion but with a little cunning aggresiveness in meeting these needs. I long for one more big bopper difference maker(huge impact)that can catapult the other 7 offensively. One nice bat w/ all the intangibles that others fed off of & makes the opposition cringe(makes em’say oh no!not again) because he’s up again(If there’s another pujols out there some where)It’s been a long time commin’but you guys I thoroughly enjoy the thoughts & analysis here hope to be able to join in on the frey if ya’ll would have me. This is a pretty cool faternity.
Ghostrider
November 1st, 2011
12:52 pm
@RYAN
Imagine being so bad that a team is willing to pay you 10 mil just to leave
I wish i could get an offer like that at work …. To bad I have 33 Yrs. doing what I do … I guess I wont be gettign that offer anytime soon… Oh well back to work.
Gee Whiz
November 1st, 2011
1:46 pm
I would have paid money out of my own pocket to get rid of this guy.. HORRIBLE. He must be laughing all the way to the bank..
Bernard
November 1st, 2011
1:59 pm
Salute!
ramblingman
November 1st, 2011
2:10 pm
It’s just sad that the Braves have not had the foresight to hire a couple of dozen of the posters on here to be the cumulative GM. These posters are the smartest people in history when it comes to baseball moves. Why, one just knows that they would never ever make a bad trade or signing. In fact, they would be immediately placed in the HOF after only one year of GM’ing because their team would win the next ten World Series based on their superior moves.
I’m sure that every one of the Wren bashers is at the tippy top of their fantasy leagues, right? Because you guys are so much smarter than the rest of us that you never make mistakes. Makes it easier to criticize every move by anyone actually involved with baseball.
What a burden to be the smartest people on the planet. I know it drags on you by the way you hurl insulting names when challenged in the slightest. Heavy is the crown…
NickB
November 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
@ Braves fan since the 80’s….. sigh….. RBI’s are a terrible stat. You can rant about OBP (and seriously ? sac flies? 3 or 4 sac flies are not going to impact OBP enough to make a difference of any importance ) all you want, but it truly is the most important stat most of you have heard of , for a hitter. Another misnomer, you rarely WANT hitters to be TRYING to give up outs for bases. You want them to be trying to drive the ball and if the result is a sac fly to score a run well that’s better than nothing. In fact, with the exception of late/close situations and also when the pitcher bats, you should never be wasting outs for bases intentionally.
BTWm the A’s made a run in the playoffs with one of the lowest payrolls in the game and were really successful as a franchise until everybody else started copying his system. Look what it did for the Red Sox! No WS for 86 years and then boom!! 2 in 4 years! Most MLB teams have a sabre stats guy on staff (some have a team of them) the Braves appear to be one of the few teams who don’t seem to value it , and the result is their offense sucked a big one last year.
Like I said kiddo, pick a year , look up each leagues top 4 or 5 OBP teams and you will find the top 4 or 5 offenses….
NickB
November 1st, 2011
2:16 pm
@ramblingman I think most of the FW haters would be in tears if we had Omar Minaya….
IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL NO GM HAS BEEN PERFECT!! You cannot predict collapses of known quantities. Who would know Mclouth would stink here? Lowe’s deal was a necessary evil and Kawakami was the normal dice roll with japanese players.
But when you measue that against the great trades for Uggla, JJ, Bourn and others… it’s not even close! He’s a done a great job when you consider the payroll restraints.
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
3:40 pm
NickB: Uggla, one of the worst second basemen in baseball, grossly overpaid, HIDEOUSLY overpaid, JJ, injury liability with dropping arm velocity, Bourn, nice move at face value but if we don’t even get to the playoffs while he’s here and then he moves on for a bigger contract, who cares? Wren is a bad GM, period, no amount of twisting words and pretty adjectives describing mediocre product will change that. I’m not hung up on RBI’s man, just used that as an example to illustrate how OBP isn’t ALWAYS the go-to stat. Said in both comments mentioning it that I understand the value of OBP just don’t think it is the one and only stat that matters like some seem to think…
BravesFanSince80's
November 1st, 2011
4:03 pm
besides all that, NickB, what is it with you and your “theories” about game strategy? If you’ve got a man on first with no outs, REGARDLESS of who is at the plate, you need to be giving serious thought to situational hitting. Hitting behind a runner is becoming a lost art and isn’t a misnomer in any shape or form. Bunts can be highly useful to get WINS. If you’ve got a man on third with less than two outs, then you don’t need a base hit, you need a fly ball to get the runner in, runs are runs man, and we need more of ‘em, we don’t have to have a team of .400 OBP guys to accomplish that either and if all the other teams are going to that anyway as you say, to do that, we’d have to pay out the a s s to get it which ain’t gonna happen. Good at-bats, situational hitting, bunting, sac flies, these are things that win ballgames dude, that isn’t a myth, it’s a fact and no amount of horse s h i t statistical spoof is gonna sidestep that!
pcb mike
November 1st, 2011
6:03 pm
Not much mention about Medlen being healthy again. If you remember what he did for us, he should get get that extra spot. Remember when we were hearing how great Hanson was in the minors, it was Medlen that was called up ahead of him.
NickB
November 1st, 2011
6:31 pm
Because by hitting behind the runner and making an out you have lessened the amount of runs you could score that inning. Bunts are a waste unless they are attempts to get hits or the pitcher (or similar lousy batter) is hitting. Wasting outs for bases leads to losses. You don’t need a team of .400 obp , you need a team with one or two of those, 2 or 3 guys above .350, 2 or 3 guys around .330-.340 and the rest above .320. It’s when the entire team is around .320 or so when things go bad.
You can say “this is what wins games and no #$%^ statistical proof is gonna sidestep that” all you want, but the proof is in the numbers. Late/close? Sure you do what you can to get that one run in as that wins the game for you. But if you make your teams hitting philosophy of getting a man on first, stealing 2nd , bunting him to 3rd ans sac flying him in you will score 3 runs a game and lose. and that’s IF you have pefect execution everytime…. Get men on base, drive them in with extra base hits. When late/close manufacturing runs is fine, because you are limited on your remaining outs and one run will either force extra baseball or win the game. No team in history has followed a small ball strategy as a philosophy of hitting. and that’s what I’m talking about, not the occasional situation during a close game. Certain late situations call for any number of things. But the philosophy of a teams offense should be to geton base, not waste outs and drive the ball for extra bases.
NickB
November 1st, 2011
6:42 pm
and as far as Uggla being one of the worst 2nd baseman… umm since 2007 he’s 9th in wOBA (prolly the best offensive metric for overall offensive production) being that there are 21 worse than him, I’d say he’s hardly “TERRIBLE”
Roja
November 1st, 2011
9:12 pm
Speaking of “great” pitchers, how many teams have Lee and Halladay let to a World Championship???? I can count them on the FINGERS of my left elbow.