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4,024 comments Add your comment
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
11:27 am
He’s a horribly overpaid asset, but he’s still an asset.
That’s a rather loose use of the term “asset” after Wren has implied he will not longer be a starter.
Asset: A useful or valuable thing, person, or quality. or Property owned by a person or company, regarded as having value and available to meet debts, commitments, or legacies.
He isn’t meeting those requirements. He isn’t useful and so far as speculation, he has little to no value.
TnBrian
October 26th, 2011
11:28 am
George, I agree. Also don’t forget the Infante homerun in Florida. Wow, that was a heartbreaker. He is one of the elite closers in baseball already though. Not taking anything away from rosey cheeks, but Freddie is an everyday player and his standout was the quick adjustments he made, imo.
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2011
11:29 am
Someone asked on Twitter how often the BBWAA and Sporting News differ on Rookie of the Year. Surprisingly, it’s been different in three of the past five years, including each of past two years. In 2010, Sporting News had Heyward its winner and BBWAA voted Posey. In 2009, SN had J.A. Happ its winner and BBWAA voted for Chris Coghlan.
In 2006, SN voted for Dan Uggla while BBWAA voted for his Marlins teammate, Hanley Ramirez.
TnBrian
October 26th, 2011
11:35 am
DOB, your thoughts/opinions on Wren’s job as GM so far?
BravesFanSince80's
October 26th, 2011
11:35 am
I agree, there should have been separate awards designated for pitchers and everyday players a loooong time ago. Pretty crappy when Nomo won ROY over Chipper in ‘95…
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2011
11:36 am
For those wondering, the BBWAA rookie awards for NL and AL will be announced Nov. 14
CrαZy
October 26th, 2011
11:36 am
I know what nolie is dealing with is not fun at all. I hope you get to feeling better soon… the blog isn’t the same without you!!
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
11:37 am
I would argue that when Soriano accepted arbitration that the quick trade for Jesse Chavez was the worst move that Wren made. He had plenty of time and could have gotten a much better deal.
—–
I’m not sure if any team would of given more, imo
Disagree. Know I’m coming in late, but Wren did move on that too fast. Especially in light of his willingness to park a $6.6M pitcher in AA. He could have held on to Soriano for more than a minute to find out if more could be had than Jesse Friggin Chavez.
And his trade of Teixeira… for Casey Kotchman. Ugh that was bad as well. But, I was a lone voice in desiring Teixeira to be traded before that season began. I think he could have gotten way more value out of him at that time. But still, a half season of an aging, injury riddled expensive Carlos Beltran returned more than a half season of a healthy, in his prime Teixeira. I think Wren could have done better.
BravesFanSince80's
October 26th, 2011
11:37 am
TNBrian: you really expect a response on that question?
DawgDad
October 26th, 2011
11:37 am
I would resign Hinske, although with the current roster makeup they really need a right-handed version of his production.
I’m not so quick to dump on McLouth, who I still believe has considerable talent and remaining potential. The questions there would appear to be “at what cost” and “can we use another left-handed outfielder”? At the right cost and in good health he is likely a better fourth outfielder than Constanza. Can he rebound fully to be a productive everyday left fielder? I would not bet a high salary on that happening at this point; I’d value him at around $3 mil max, but his skill set is still intriguing.
BravesFanSince80's
October 26th, 2011
11:40 am
please, please, please, don’t start in on keeping McLousy around again! PLEASE!
richbrave
October 26th, 2011
11:44 am
WrenGoAway:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion about the construction of this team and the GM.
I’m not convinced yet that FREDI G is the man for the manager’s job, but right now for better or worse he is.
The player personnel moves FRANK has made are made in the spirit of being “for the betterment of the team”, and of course, some have been better, some worse. I can’t at this time condemn his body of work in that area, although I certainly would if I felt as you do that UGGLA was a complete bust of a trade.
MIKE DUNN and OMAR INFANTE have not contributed a great deal to the improvement of the MARLINS at this point, and INFANTE evidently will hit the FA market this off-season. DUNN might fit their long-term plans and be effective.
But they got salary relief, and rid of what they saw as a defensive liability. At this point I can’t argue that defensively that wasn’t a good move on their part. But we needed a big bat in the middle of this line-up, and undoubtedly felt that between GONZALEZ and FREEMAN, his liabilities would be minimized in the field.
Was it a sour move? I think the jury’s out at this point. 36 HR’s put some salve on the wound that a minus-mendoza BA created early on. And early on, his defense was better than expected. All in all, I’d say we got pretty much what we asked for and expected.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
11:48 am
BF80 – By knowledgeble, I was referring to baseball profesionals, not opinions of blog responders, whose knowledge varies greatly. Again, I acknowledge your opinion, but disagree, and I believe you are in the minority concerning Wren.
Who do you consider to be the outstanding GMs over a period of time (not “flash in the pan”)?
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
11:48 am
INFANTE evidently will hit the FA market this off-season
I thought he already signed a 2 year $8M extension with the Marlins?
CB
October 26th, 2011
11:49 am
Do you guys really think Nate is going to sign a contract where he knows he is going to be a likely 4th OF? Really?
BravesFanSince80's
October 26th, 2011
11:50 am
I didn’t ask for it. I don’t need home runs, give me speed and defense anyday! Go Braves! Looks like the minor league coaching additions and other moves being made indicate that we’re finally going in that direction, Uggla notwithstanding. Now fire Fuity Gonzalez and find a guy who can manage a speed game and lets get some runs!
George
October 26th, 2011
11:50 am
We must NOT keep NATE.
Lee in S GA
October 26th, 2011
11:52 am
year of 1983 – as much as I hate to say it I remember M.J.’s “Thriller” album topping the charts.
richbrave
October 26th, 2011
11:53 am
INFANTE resigned?
N8
October 26th, 2011
11:55 am
“I thought he already signed a 2 year $8M extension with the Marlins?”
Yup. About a month or so ago. Locked up by Marlins for this year and next, I believe.
N8
October 26th, 2011
11:57 am
Braves should really consider trading one of the young pitchers to the Marlins for Bonifacio (if they’d be interested in moving him for pitching).
Dude can play everywhere, hits for average and has speed to burn. But for that reason and that he’s cheap, the Marlins likely will plan on keeping him. Oh well.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:00 pm
Do you guys really think Nate is going to sign a contract where he knows he is going to be a likely 4th OF? Really?
So you CB really think some team will offer Nate a starting job? Really? ( :
richbrave
October 26th, 2011
12:00 pm
And make no mistake, I think FREEMAN solved a serious long-term problem for this team just as we are hoping JASON HEYWARD will do. I am more sanguine of HEYWARD’s long-term prospects than FREEMAN’S due to the obvious ability of FREEMAN to adjust to ML pitching. HEYWARD I believe from all I’ve read, has been challenged successfully at the plate for the first time in his career by opposing pitchers, and he has not responded well to the challenge. His defense is what we always heard it was, average at best.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:01 pm
But for that reason and that he’s cheap
I think for the next few years we can drop the “cheap” comments when referring to the Marlins. There are lots of rumbling that team is going to spend the bucks now.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:03 pm
You take what you can get from guys like Constanza or trade them as fast as you can to a “genius GM” for somebody like Tim Hudson (see Charles Thomas).
–Mark Bowman.
zing!
Cheap shots at Beane bother me. I’m not sure why, just does. However I liked the “zing!” comment of yours. Good stuff.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:05 pm
Braves should really consider trading one of the young pitchers to the Marlins for Bonifacio (if they’d be interested in moving him for pitching).
You’d trade one of Randall Delgado, Julio Teheran, or Arodys Vizcaino to the Marlins for Bonifacio?
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:07 pm
Disagree. Know I’m coming in late, but Wren did move on that too fast. Especially in light of his willingness to park a $6.6M pitcher in AA. He could have held on to Soriano for more than a minute to find out if more could be had than Jesse Friggin Chavez.
I guess, and at times, Wren does move a little too fast with moves. I guess I’m just happy he offered Soriano arb. Better than not offering him arb, imo.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:09 pm
There are lots of rumbling that team is going to spend the bucks now.
Yeah, the whole Marlins, Nationals, Mets are broke – Phillies can’t sustain 160 million+ arguments have gotten old…..
Decent chance that we’re the least spending team in the NL East in the near future.
Murph
October 26th, 2011
12:10 pm
I’d rather not face Delgado 4 or 5 times a year, thank you very much.
If they are going to trade one of the young arms, I’d rather get Castro from the Cubs.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:10 pm
Why did Constanza lose playing time?
Bowman leads off with this one as his headline for the inbox. DOWN WITH HEYWARD as the sub title….
cricket
October 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
Bonifacio has already had his career year.
N8
October 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
“You’d trade one of Randall Delgado, Julio Teheran, or Arodys Vizcaino to the Marlins for Bonifacio?”
Depends on what else they gave up as well. But was more thinking Minor, Medlen…. maybe Gilmartin.
I think our pitchers have more “value” than Bonifacio on the surface. But sometimes value is also percieved as what you can get in return for them, not just what they could do for you.
We have a ton of pitching and not much in everyday players. Bonifacio could play CF in 2013 if Bourn leaves. He could play LF if Bourn stays. He could bat leadoff if Bourn leaves.
2011 is a great example of what a team with a ton of pitching and no offense or no offensive depth in the even of injuries will get you.
Just trying to think outside of the box a bit. I wasn’t necessarily thinking straight up. But if we could put together a package the Marlins like, and they could put together a package we like, centered around one of our young pitchers on our end, and centered around Bonifacio on their end…… yeah, I’d think about it.
But I really like Bonifacio. So that’s just me. LOL
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
Heyward certainly did not turn any heads as he batted .258 with four extra-base hits (two doubles, a triple and a homer) in 66 September at-bats.
Give the kid a break for chriss sakes: .258/.375/.364, 106 in September. He didn’t look nearly as bad.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
12:18 pm
Bonifacio has already had his career year
Agreed. His innate scrubbiness will soon re-surface.
Bowman leads off with this one as his headline for the inbox.
And this surprises you because…? Consider the source.
N8
October 26th, 2011
12:18 pm
“I think for the next few years we can drop the “cheap” comments when referring to the Marlins. There are lots of rumbling that team is going to spend the bucks now.”
Cool. Then let’s see if they’ll take Lowe instead of one of the younger guys.
I realize that. I wasn’t saying the Marlins are going to be “cheap” moving forward. Just meaning that because he’s not too expensive, there isn’t much reason to move him. Even if he ends up being a utility guy or 4th outfielder for them, at his cost, they have nothing to lose by keeping him.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:19 pm
Give the kid a break for chriss sakes: .258/.375/.364, 106 in September. He didn’t look nearly as bad.
They did give him a break. They acquired Diaz so Heyward could sit against LHP. His September numbers are predominately from his “stronger” side. That’s pretty bad for a corner outfielder as a whole. And that was only his good half.
N8
October 26th, 2011
12:19 pm
My main thought on a guy like Bonifacio isn’t as a longterm starter (but like I said, he could start for Bourn if he left – short term), but more if they are NOT intending on having Prado be the uber-sub, a guy like Bonifacio can clearly fill that role.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
12:25 pm
He didn’t look nearly as bad.
Bowman just wanted to to throw a little scrub-love out to Biff, I guess. Even though that miserable .258 nuked Jose’s robust .176 after 08/16.
(It was so bad that I didn’t have the heart to keep posting the “N8 Constanza Watch” each week. Just didn’t seem right, LOL)
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:28 pm
They did give him a break. They acquired Diaz so Heyward could sit against LHP. His September numbers are predominately from his “stronger” side. That’s pretty bad for a corner outfielder as a whole. And that was only his good half.
Disagree. He wouldn’t of hit vs. LHP regardless of the Diaz acquisition. Diaz took plate appearances away from Biff.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:30 pm
That’s pretty bad for a corner outfielder as a whole. And that was only his good half.
Do you have anything good to say about his 2011 season? Maybe a little? Just a bit? Perhaps a decent April? Or has Shaun(and perhaps me) spoiled it for you?
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:32 pm
And this surprises you because…? Consider the source.
Not a fan of Bowman, scoots?
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:32 pm
Cheap shots at Beane bother me. I’m not sure why, just does
As I read that mailbox response I started thinking of Jerry Seinfeld. Did you ever see his documentary “Comedian”? It’s fascinating stuff. At least I thought so. He rebuilds his set from scratch, not using any old material, to eventually have the set he is now touring. In that documentary there is a young comedian Orny Adams who is starting his career. They juxtapose the two. The biggest character trait Seinfeld has over Orny is the ability to mock himself and not care when being mocked. Thinking of all the Seinfeld episodes when they would script in jokes about Jerry’s routine. “I saw your act. I can’t be with a man if I don’t respect what he does.” “You do a lot of that ‘did you ever notice’, ‘what’s the deal with’ stuff. Seems a lot of people are doing that.“…
Any who, I’m pretty sure Beane doesn’t care if Mark Bowman referred to him in quotes as a “genius GM.” But it certainly makes me laugh. Nearly every angle of it.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
12:33 pm
Efrim, can’t say that I am a fan of the guy, no.
Probably keeps him up nights.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:35 pm
Looks like the Dodgers hands are tied again this winter as the bankruptcy trials have been moved to November 29th – December 2nd.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:36 pm
Disagree. He wouldn’t of hit vs. LHP regardless of the Diaz acquisition. Diaz took plate appearances away from Biff.
Ah, so you agree with Mailbag Bowman… ( :
Do you have anything good to say about his 2011 season?
He looks good in a uniform. And I liked his opening day homer. Hoping he can do that again next year and set the record at 3 straight seasons.
Point taken. At any rate, whoever was in the platoon with him, Heyward was only facing RHP in September.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:37 pm
Wow, those paragraphs got all messed up.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:37 pm
Any who, I’m pretty sure Beane doesn’t care if Mark Bowman referred to him in quotes as a “genius GM.”\
Of course he doesn’t, but it bothers the sh!t out of me, especially coming from Mark Bowman.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:38 pm
but it bothers the sh!t out of me, especially coming from Mark Bowman
… and that’s just two of the angles that crack me up.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:41 pm
Efrim, can’t say that I am a fan of the guy, no.
I used to be…..but for some reason I rarely head over there to read his stuff anymore. Those inbox questions aren’t as intriguing as they looked 3-4 years ago. Oh well. MLBTraderumors, Buster Olney, Keith Law, Fangraphs, DOB, etc. taking me away from MLB.com.
cricket
October 26th, 2011
12:43 pm
Or has Shaun(and perhaps me) spoiled it for you?
hope you took a long shower after writing that..
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:43 pm
Depends on what else they gave up as well. But was more thinking Minor, Medlen…. maybe Gilmartin.
As much as I knock Minor, I still wouldn’t deal him in a package for anything less than a above average slugger. Mid-rotation upside, LHP, who looks like he can be a workhorse starter should fetch more, imo.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:45 pm
hope you took a long shower after writing that..
Now that you mention it, I’m leaving work and heading home right this second….
cricket
October 26th, 2011
12:46 pm
Looks like the Dodgers hands are tied again this winter as the bankruptcy trials have been moved to November 29th – December 2nd.
Folks wanna pool money to buy dodgers? We can split 180mil in couple years evenly.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
12:49 pm
MLBTraderumors, Buster Olney, Keith Law, Fangraphs, DOB, etc. taking me away from MLB.com
So, Bowman now can also blame Keith Law.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:50 pm
I’m starting to think we actually could get a “Vazquez” type package for Jurrjens. They mentioned something over at CAC, and I was talking to a friend of mine about it. 4th outfielder type, minor league reliever + a high upside minor leager pitcher from Low-A. Not to say that the Braves would be jumping at that, but perhaps teams in need of starting pitching: New York, Boston, LAA, Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland would be willing to make a deal for Jair with 2 years of arbitration left, perhaps totalling 12-15 million. Just a random thought…
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:51 pm
So, Bowman now can also blame Keith Law.
The list keeps growing…
flange1
October 26th, 2011
12:52 pm
Did everyone see this article at Capital AVe about Heyward and the holes in his swing? Read the copy but look at the heat charts.
VERY interesting!
http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=4925
RC
October 26th, 2011
12:52 pm
Efrim,
I think Cleveland would have LOVED a deal for a Jair type last year…right up until they acquired Ubaldo. From a service-time/salary standpoint, I think he kind of fills that role for them.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
12:52 pm
And it could be a high upside Low-A positon player prospect. Cheslor Cuthbert, Kaleb Cowart, etc…
RC
October 26th, 2011
12:55 pm
I like the idea of using Jair to get a package including Kaleb Cowart. Legit 3b prospect (plus, he’s from GA!
)
CB
October 26th, 2011
12:56 pm
TP.actually do believe there will be some “Genius” GM out there who will offer Nate a starting OF job. Really,I mean really.
Jeff R
October 26th, 2011
12:58 pm
I’ve always thought there should be a “Babe Ruth Award” for hitters (or pick your great hitter’s name) along with the Cy Young Award for pitchers. MVP should be for best contributing player, pitcher or hitter. MVP tends to go to hitters.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:00 pm
I am a HUGE fan of Cowart. Freaking Angels plucked all of the GA boys in the 2010 draft, if I recall correctly. Steve Bedrosian’s kid Cam, and another whose name escapes me. Anyway, I’m not sure if Cowart is a 2B or 3B, but I’d love to trade for that kid.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
Cleveland has to be in buy mode after that Ubaldo trade. Plus, they have Hafner and Jimenez’ contract for guarantees and that’s it. Sounds like they are going to let Sizemore and Carmona go. Carmona would be a great fit for a team like the Mets, imo, if he’s let go.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:06 pm
Cowart was a 3b in HS, though I haven’t followed where the Angels have played him at the pro level. Based on his build though, it’s hard to imagine him at 2b in the long term.
CB
October 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
Hmmm,wonder what Sizemore would cost on the open market?
Jeff R
October 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
Efrim, not a bad thought regarding Jurrjens. I would wonder, though, if Wren gambles that Jurrjens pitches healthy and effectively next season and boosts his trade value?
Also, I think Wren is probably quietly laying the groundwork to try to offload Lowe. Some have written, “Why pack off Lowe if the Braves save very little in payroll?” Well, even if the Braves save a few million, that’s better than nothing, and a Lowe-less rotation opens a spot for one of the good young pitchers.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
1:08 pm
Sounds like they are going to let Sizemore and Carmona go.
Somebody is going to make the deal of the year by signing Sizemore on the cheap. Won’t be the Braves, I’m guessing, but, somebody.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:14 pm
Somebody is going to make the deal of the year by signing Sizemore on the cheap. Won’t be the Braves, I’m guessing, but, somebody.
I dunno about that. Microfracture surgery is pretty tough to come back from, especially when so much of a players value is based on speed and explosiveness. I’m betting he’ll be about league-average next year, but the days of him being a star appear to be over.
CB
October 26th, 2011
1:16 pm
scoots,might be exactly the kind of signing Wren might do. Troy Glaus type signing.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:18 pm
Efrim, not a bad thought regarding Jurrjens. I would wonder, though, if Wren gambles that Jurrjens pitches healthy and effectively next season and boosts his trade value?
I’d argue that even a healthy year for Jurrjens isn’t likely to boost his trade value, since teams are much more willing to trade for a player they can control for two years than a player they only control for one year. Trading JJ next offseason will be viewed by opposing teams as a “rental” player, even though it’s only an extra year of control (and in reality, all players are “rental” players…it’s just the length of the lease that’s different).
If Wren was REALLY bold, trading JJ at this year’s trade deadline would likely bring the greatest return, but the Braves would have to be pretty far out of the race to try a move like that.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:19 pm
I think some pitchers are going to get short term deals that will really be great values. Harang, Bedard, Oswalt, Carmona will all probably get 1 or 2 year deals and may outperform their expectations. Buerhle, Wilson and Jackson are the only American born starters to get deals of 3 years or more this offseason(not counting Darvish or Iwakuma).
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
1:20 pm
but the days of him being a star appear to be over.
RC, just hush, now.
That’s my boy Grady you’re talkin’ about, LOL.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
1:21 pm
I’m betting he’ll be about league-average next year, but the days of him being a star appear to be over.
geez RC, why you gotta cut scoots like that?
Jeff R
October 26th, 2011
1:21 pm
“I’d argue that even a healthy year for Jurrjens isn’t likely to boost his trade value, since teams are much more willing to trade for a player they can control for two years than a player they only control for one year.” — RC
Solid point.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:21 pm
Efrim,
You see Jackson getting 3 years?
As to the first 4 guys you mentioned, I think there is the opportunity for a “deal”, but the risk of injury is great enough that there is also a high risk of having a bust of a contract. Any team signing those players is really rolling the dice on boom or bust.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:22 pm
If Wren was REALLY bold, trading JJ at this year’s trade deadline would likely bring the greatest return, but the Braves would have to be pretty far out of the race to try a move like that.
Even based on Jair’s past injury woes, that is going to be a really tough call for Frank Wren and co. If he is battling Roy Halladay for the ERA lead, do you really trade the guy because of his past fragile seasons? Tough call that will largely depend on the progress of the youngsters.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:23 pm
Sorry scoots. I actually like Grady as a player, but he seems to be one of those guys that is always held back by injuries. I also think he’s a pretty bad fit for the Braves, since they already have their good defensive CF and enough left-handed bats to last for years.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
1:23 pm
CB, it’s hard to imagine the Braves taking a left-handed flyer like that. If ole Grady were righty, maybe, or if the whole offensive question were not so unsettled, maybe. But I doubt they would be comfortable adding question marks.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:25 pm
Even based on Jair’s past injury woes, that is going to be a really tough call for Frank Wren and co. If he is battling Roy Halladay for the ERA lead, do you really trade the guy because of his past fragile seasons? Tough call that will largely depend on the progress of the youngsters. – Efrim
I’m not saying Wren will do it, or even that I would do it if I were in his position. It’s a really tough call to make, but the odds are strongly in favor of maximizing JJ’s value with a mid-season trade. Of course, you could make a pretty good arguement that the best time to trade him was this PAST season at the deadline (as a few people said at the time).
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
1:25 pm
So we are back to trading JJ. Awesome. Love this conversation… .and the inevitable review of the 2012 Atlanta Braves pitching rotation sans JJ and Lowe. Looks great doesn’t it? Hudson, Beachy, Hanson on the DL and then Minor, Julio, Randal. Upside is they should certainly avoid a September collapse two years in a row since they won’t be in the race that late in the season with that rotation. But hey, they saved money and have a high upside low A ball player.
Nothing better than watching my favorite sports team shun the sports side and dominate the business side of the game.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:26 pm
You see Jackson getting 3 years?
Yes, based on his age. 3 for 36.
As to the first 4 guys you mentioned, I think there is the opportunity for a “deal”, but the risk of injury is great enough that there is also a high risk of having a bust of a contract. Any team signing those players is really rolling the dice on boom or bust.
For sure, but if they stay relatively healthy and produce 180ishg innings – could be a solid deal. Especially if the home team plays in a big ball park like SD or Oakland.
Jeff R
October 26th, 2011
1:27 pm
I think Priority # 1 for Wren is dumping Lowe’s contract for as much savings as is possible.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
1:28 pm
Of course, you could make a pretty good arguement that the best time to trade him was this PAST season at the deadline (as a few people said at the time).
I couldn’t have done it. That’s stones way beyond my imagination.
ColoradoBravesFan
October 26th, 2011
1:29 pm
Would Sizemore be a good fit for Braves?
Pros – Would not need to trade prospects to acquire, only cash if released by Cleveland. Can play a good defensive CF(yes/no?). Steals bases, adds speed to a slow team. Career .830 OPS from CF, even after 2 injury filled seasons.
Cons- Do the Braves have enough cash in 2012 to afford him? Bad against LH pitching(.227/.315/.378/.693). Is his knee healthy? Is he worth taking a chance on a return to his career norms?
I think Sizemore is worth taking a gamble, but can’t get past how bad he has done against lefties. Braves need a bat that kills lefties… GO BRAVES
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:29 pm
For sure, but if they stay relatively healthy and produce 180ishg innings – could be a solid deal. Especially if the home team plays in a big ball park like SD or Oakland.
Agreed, but I think that the risk is reflected in the likely contracts that each player will sign. It’s almost like the signing team is saying, “You are either going to be worth much more than this, or much less than this, but it’s very unlikely that this contract is going to give an even return on investment.”
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:29 pm
Hudson, Beachy, Hanson on the DL and then Minor, Julio, Randal.
Yeesh. If they trade Jurrjens and Lowe, I hope they at least so something with the money they saved. Something.
But hey, they saved money and have a high upside low A ball player.
I’m pretty happy we have Arodys in the system…..
I hear you though, How about trading Jurrjens and signing Oswalt? No? Maybe? Kind of?
Probably not.
I think Wren ends up keeping Jurrjens anyway, for the reasons you mentioned.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:31 pm
ColoradoBravesFan,
Sizemore doesn’t make sense for the Braves because a large portion of his value (good CF defense) would be wasted by the Braves, who already have a great defensive CF in Bourn. They could play Sizemore in LF, but his defensive impact would be much less there. He’s a better sign for a team that needs a CF.
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2011
1:34 pm
If he is battling Roy Halladay for the ERA lead, do you really trade the guy because of his past fragile seasons?
If so, and unless the Braves have otherwise tanked, I’d keep him and go for the brass ring.
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
If so, and unless the Braves have otherwise tanked, I’d keep him and go for the brass ring.
Which is exactly what the team did this year. I’d probably do the same thing….but I’m not entirely sure it’s the “right” decision.
Brave New World
October 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
richbrave October 26th, 2011 12:00 pm
And make no mistake, I think FREEMAN solved a serious long-term problem for this team just as we are hoping JASON HEYWARD will do. I am more sanguine of HEYWARD’s long-term prospects than FREEMAN’S due to the obvious ability of FREEMAN to adjust to ML pitching.
So Richbrave, because Freeman adjusted to major League pitching, you are eagerly optimistic about Heyward?
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
1:36 pm
If Hanson is seriously injured for 2012, then I think the Braves chances of making the playoffs or challenging the Phillies have decreased significantly.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
1:37 pm
RC, I think your contract statement pretty much summed up every baseball contract signed since Curt Flood, LOL. Teams are always paying for the past, it’s just the nature of the business.
Still, I believe that sometimes you have to break down the contract into each year to see the actual valu eof the player. If a player is unconscionably undervalued in a single year, and that overperformance leads to a ring, does that ameliorate the suffering of the year when he deeds up on suckage and is horrifically overvalued? In the abstract, I’d say yes. But from a business standpoint, it’s not that clear-cut.
Good lick on that contract valuation thing, though. I’m stealing it, don’t worry.
phil
October 26th, 2011
1:40 pm
Bring back Nate! He’s just misunderstood, like Heyward…
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
ncscoots,
One of my favorite quotes, and I have no idea who it came from except that it was a former GM, goes something like this:
“You don’t trade players. You trade contracts.”
RC
October 26th, 2011
1:45 pm
scoots,
Length of the contract plays a huge factor in the expected value you get out of a player as well, as additional years add additional risk. Another favorite quote, “There is no such thing as a bad one-year contract.”
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
Everybody here knows I like Freeman, but, 140+ Ks can put a damper on your enthusiasm. I think I’d like to refrain from my All-Star vote until I see if he can make that adjustment.
ColoradoBravesFan
October 26th, 2011
1:46 pm
RC,
I see your logic, But if the Braves could get an .830 OPS out of LF with great defense, I would take it. I just don’t think the Braves can afford another LH hitter that stinks against Leftys.
phil
October 26th, 2011
1:49 pm
I’m with you, Scoots…time will tell with FF. I suspect his approach and toughness will carry the day, unlike someone else I could name but don’t need to…
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
1:55 pm
Yeesh. If they trade Jurrjens and Lowe, I hope they at least so something with the money they saved. Something. … How about trading Jurrjens and signing Oswalt? No? Maybe? Kind of?
I just don’t see it. And to me, it makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. The team has a solid rotation and a potential open spot. That allows for one advancement this season, which marches the kids in at a pace to maintain a solid rotation without tipping over.
In addition, Wren gave his State-of-the-off-season interview and stressed a need to revamp the offense in the outfield. I find it hard to believe that he’d change directions entirely and remake his rotation and pitching depth chart on the off-chance he might get a decent low-A prospect. This team isn’t so broke that it must perpetually trade its players prior to FA.
So there. I just don’t see it happening. I suppose it could. But it doesn’t make much sense.