Braves SS prospect Simmons quiets some skeptics

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RC

October 26th, 2011
9:48 am

there are also plenty of fans who would tell that neither Jurjens or Ugly Dan were good moves…

While I disagree, I would be willing to hear an arguement that the Uggla deal wasn’t a good move. But Jurrjens?? How exactly does trading one year of an $8 million Edgar Renteria (who wasn’t very good), for 6 controlled years of Jair Jurrjens + a CF prospect not turn out to be a good deal? Especially when you have a young SS who’s ready to step in and immediately fill the role?

The Braves have made some bad trades in the past, no doubt. But if you look at what they have received in those trades compared to what they have given up, I’d much rather be on the Braves side of the equation.

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
9:48 am

Excuse me, six really good trades that I can remember:

2007: Edgar Renteria to Detroit for Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez
2007: Jose Ascanio for Omar Infante and Will Ohman
2008: Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, Jon Gilmore, and Santos Rodriguez for Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan
2009: Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino
2010: Omar Infante and Mike Dunn for Dan Uggla
2011: Jordan Schafer, Juan Abreu, Brett Oberholtzer, and Paul Clemens for Michael Bourn

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
9:48 am

Hawked – Yes, the Braves have a pretty good prospect for 3rd when Chipper is done. His name is Martin Prado.

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
9:49 am

Wren also traded two chili dogs for four Whoppers a few years back. That was his best trade.

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
9:50 am

So if Prado plays 3B who be in LF ?

RC

October 26th, 2011
9:51 am

Efrim,

Agreed that those are all really good trades. And IF Pastornicky turns into a decent player, that trade will look a lot better as well. A year and a half of Gonzalez, Pastornicky, and Tim Collins for Escobar and Reyes isn’t half bad (even though we traded Collins soon after).

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
9:51 am

I mean, really think about that, folks. That’s a great trade every single year that Frank Wren has made. No denying it. Great trades. He’s made two sub par ones that are worth noting:

2008: Mark Teixiera for Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek
2009: Charlie Morton, Jeff Locke, and Gorkys Hernandez for Nate McLouth

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
9:51 am

Lew, I have not started the name calling game today and would like everyone to note this…

RC

October 26th, 2011
9:51 am

So if Prado plays 3B who be in LF ?

Andruw Jones? :)

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
9:52 am

Chipper need to retire. We all know he gonna play 75 games and get hurt 6 times next year.

CB

October 26th, 2011
9:52 am

The 2008 trade might still be under review,Efrim. The good part we were able to get Vizcaino with Vazquez the following year.

Lew

October 26th, 2011
9:53 am

And let’s also not forget that Wren also picked up O’Flahertty and Varvaro as waiver wire acquisitions. Even picking up Constanza as a minor league free agent paid dividends and so did the acquisition of Cristhian Martinez.

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
9:53 am

A.Jones can’t even play with himself any more much less be a LF.

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
9:54 am

fellas, how many playoff appearances hve we seen under Frank Wren’s tenure?

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
9:54 am

Forgot about those other deals:

2010: Gregor Blanco, Jesse Chavez, and Tim Collins for Kyle Farnsworth and Rick Ankiel
2010: Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes for Alex Gonzalez, Tyler Pastornicky and Tim Collins

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
9:54 am

Well break yer arm Braves80’s patting yoself on yo back….

Lew

October 26th, 2011
9:55 am

Bravesfansincethe 80’s – It still doesn’t make you vaguely close to being right. But yes, you’re completely wrong in a very nice manner.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
9:57 am

How exactly does trading one year of an $8 million Edgar Renteria (who wasn’t very good), for 6 controlled years of Jair Jurrjens + a CF prospect not turn out to be a good deal?

um, because that CF prospect got us Nate McLouth?

/sarcasm

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
9:57 am

your opinions guys, but they’re just that, opinion, it depends on what you’re looking for, the re-building of a Braves playoff dynasty or another year as an also-ran…

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
9:57 am

I guess the only thing I didn’t like at the time was signing Tom Glavine and giving the Mets a first round draft pick after the 2007 season. Dealing Tex for Kotchman and Marek also bothers me because it made a lot more sense just to keep him and take the two draft picks. The “We needed a first baseman” argument never made any sense. Braves were going to lose 90+ games that season with or without Casey Kotchman. They needed to focus on getting the best possible return for Tex, and that wasn’t it.

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
9:59 am

Some players never be the same after injury. I was never the same after a pile of bricks fell on me at a demolition site.

Hawked Out

October 26th, 2011
10:00 am

Yeah i remember Firemashall Bill Ankiel !

CB

October 26th, 2011
10:00 am

GM’s can be made to look good or bad with a trade by the performance of the players. I would argue the trade for Nate was a good trade, Nate playing like a dog was not Wren’s fault. At the time, the trade was commended by almost all the “experts”.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:02 am

Well someone could have the opinion that Vanilla Ice was awesome, but they’d be wrong.

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:03 am

I remember thinking at the time that Pittsburg sure seemed anxious to unload him and money can’t motivate that strongly when it’s still a reasonable sum…

Murph

October 26th, 2011
10:03 am

Any updates on nolie?

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:04 am

I would argue the trade for Nate was a good trade, Nate playing like a dog was not Wren’s fault

I agree. I liked Nate….still do

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:05 am

EVERYBODY thinks their opinion is the right one guys, why have one in the first place if you think it’s wrong? Just because y’all happen to like a 2B who sucks at defense and hits 36 pretty meaningless homers doesn’t necessarily make you “right” either…

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:05 am

I remember when Pittsburgh held that candlelight vigil for Nate. I can’t tell if that’s worse than A-Gon’s standing ovation or not.

CMC

October 26th, 2011
10:06 am

DOB,

Just saw this morning a report that John Lackey will miss 2012 season due to TJ surgery. You think the Red Sox would be interested in Derek Lowe assuming the Braves cover most of his $15M salary?

RC

October 26th, 2011
10:09 am

I remember when Pittsburgh held that candlelight vigil for Nate. I can’t tell if that’s worse than A-Gon’s standing ovation or not.

I think it’s probably worse. A standing ovation is a spur of the moment thing, probably started by one or two guys, then everyone got caught up in it. No time to second guess.

A candlelight vigil takes planning. Someone had to go to the store and actually buy the candles, never stopping to think, “This might not be a good idea…”

CB

October 26th, 2011
10:09 am

Maybe we need a candlelight vigil for our brother nolie,sure miss reading his posts. Get well quick,buddy.

RC

October 26th, 2011
10:10 am

Just saw this morning a report that John Lackey will miss 2012 season due to TJ surgery. You think the Red Sox would be interested in Derek Lowe assuming the Braves cover most of his $15M salary?

If the Braves are covering “most” of his salary, why are we trading him? I’m only on board for moving him if a) the other team is footing the bill or b) we are getting a legit prospect in return. Otherwise, let’s run out the majors most expensive middle relief pitcher next year.

Pascual

October 26th, 2011
10:11 am

why are y’all jumpin’ on BFS80’s because he doesn’t like the FO or Dan Uggla? Weird, if you like those guys, that’s fine too I guess, but why defend them so strongly? Show me some results out of these people you so strongly defend. You all keep harping on a bunch of trades that didn’t amount to a hill of beans where it really counts so why keep defending the idea that Wren is a good GM when he can’t win when it matters? Last time I checked, Infante plays for a division rival, and more than one of those other guys have moved on to the Yankees or still play for them now…Yuck!…

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2011
10:12 am

I remember thinking at the time that Pittsburg sure seemed anxious to unload him

Andrew McCutchen

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
10:13 am

So to recap on Frank Wren’s tenure…and this is all just my opinion and is up for debate……

The Awesome:

2007: Edgar Renteria to Detroit for Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez
2010: Omar Infante and Mike Dunn for Dan Uggla
2011: Jordan Schafer, Juan Abreu, Brett Oberholtzer, and Paul Clemens for Michael Bourn

The Good:

2007: Jose Ascanio for Omar Infante and Will Ohman
2008: Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, Jon Gilmore, and Santos Rodriguez for Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan
2009: Javier Vazquez and Boone Logan for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino

Offering Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez arbitration

The Okay:

2010: Gregor Blanco, Jesse Chavez, and Tim Collins for Kyle Farnsworth and Rick Ankiel

The “So-so”:

Signing Takashi Saito, Troy Glaus and Eric Hinske.

The “I guess it was all right if you look at it that way”:

2010: Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes for Alex Gonzalez, Tyler Pastornicky and Tim Collins

Signing Billy Wagner to a one year deal and giving a first round draft pick to the Boston Red Sox

The Bad:

2008: Mark Teixiera for Casey Kotchman and Stephen Marek
2009: Charlie Morton, Jeff Locke, and Gorkys Hernandez for Nate McLouth

The Really Bad

Signing Derek Lowe to a 4 year 60 million dollar deal in January of 2009
Signing Kenshin Kawakami to a 3 year 23 million dollar deal in January of 2009

Signing Tom Glavine to a one year deal in 2007 giving the Mets a first round draft pick

Pascual

October 26th, 2011
10:18 am

Efrim, while I applaud your willingness to waste your own time typing so much information, that is all pretty meaningless given that we have almost nothing to show for it…

CB

October 26th, 2011
10:18 am

Efrim, I would argue that when Soriano accepted arbitration that the quick trade for Jesse Chavez was the worst move that Wren made. He had plenty of time and could have gotten a much better deal.

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:18 am

thank you Pascual

Murph

October 26th, 2011
10:19 am

Otherwise, let’s run out the majors most expensive middle relief pitcher next year.

You did watch Lowe pitch in September, right?

The guy is done. Whatever skills he once had have completely eroded… he isn’t a legitimate MLB pitcher anymore.

What situation would you be comfortable with the Braves using him in? If he stays with the team he is basically 2012’s version of Scott Proctor… you just have to hope and pray that the team has a double-digit lead before putting him in the ballgame, because otherwise they run the risk of him blowing a certain victory. How would the Braves’ fortunes have been different if Proctor was actually effective? Don’t let his 2-3 record with the Braves fool you… he handed out his share of losses to other guys due to inherited runners crossing the plate.

With the budget being as tight as it is, even a $5mil savings is huge. That’s a bullpen arm and a decent 4th outfielder. If the Braves can move Lowe and only be on the hook for $10mil, it’s worth it.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
10:19 am

Biggest fallicy most people make when criticizing Wren, is that they disreguard financial reality of budget constraints.

The McLouth trade was universally considered a great trade at the time. No one could know that he would turn out to be a bust.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:21 am

Weird, if you like those guys, that’s fine too I guess, but why defend them so strongly? Show me some results out of these people you so strongly defend

You got it, ace!

Jurrjens since coming to the Braves (2008)
47-32, 3.34 ERA

Edgar Renteria since leaving the Braves (2008)
.261 AVG, .314 OBP, .357 SLG, .672 OPS

***********************
Dan Uggla, 2011
.233 AVG, .311 OBP, .453 SLG, .764 OPS, including a team high and 8th in the NL 36 HR

Omar Infante, 2011
.276 AVG, .315 OBP, .382 SLG, .697 OPS, with 7 HR

After Uggla’s horrible first half, you can make the argument that Infante would play better, but I think most in baseball would rather have Uggla starting at 2nd than Infante.

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2011
10:22 am

The Really Bad

The Atlanta Braves in 2008

Signing Derek Lowe to a 4 year 60 million dollar deal in January of 2009
Signing Kenshin Kawakami to a 3 year 23 million dollar deal in January of 2009

2009 Braves …………… Competitive

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:23 am

SOMETIMES trades need to be viewed in a long-term affect kind of way. How has the moves you guys keep throwing up on here affected the club in any meaningful way? By that I mean, how many WS titles have we won or at least division titles? Hmm? Vasquez pitched one decent season for us and then moved on to the YANKEES!!!!!!!!!! and then on to a division rival and pitched a crucial game against us that kept us out of the playoffs yet again!

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:23 am

that is all pretty meaningless given that we have almost nothing to show for it…

Except a strong foundation so that we don’t have to worry about embarrassing ourselves for 20 years like the Pirates

Lew

October 26th, 2011
10:23 am

There’s not a GM in all of baseball (nor has there ever been one) that never made a bad move.

All deals are made with much in the way of hope and all of these evaluations are done with much in the way of hindsight. Much easier to make an evaluation when all of the results are in and much tougher to make a deal when you don’t know for sure what may come to pass.

Pascual

October 26th, 2011
10:26 am

Jeffrey, all that is weak and meaningless, we have not won the division from the efforst of any of those trades so they are meaningless, without post-season appearances, trades hold little value to me and to all the other fans in Atlanta who refuse to “tip their caps”!

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
10:27 am

I would argue that when Soriano accepted arbitration that the quick trade for Jesse Chavez was the worst move that Wren made. He had plenty of time and could have gotten a much better deal.

I’m not sure if any team would of given more, imo. They were kinda stuck, but he made the right decision in offering arbitration. He could of been stuck with absolutely nothing.

Pascual

October 26th, 2011
10:28 am

Jeffrey, you don’t consider the way this season ended pretty embarrassing?

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
10:30 am

2009 Braves …………… Competitive

That’s fair, however the contracts prevented the Braves from having financial flexibility in future seasons.

Hey, it isn’t easy finding blemishes during Frank’s tenure. He’s been very solid overall, imo. He’s done a great job keeping the farm system intact too. I guess the other knock is his selection of our, ahem, wonderful manager…..

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
10:31 am

Efrim – The McLouth trade was “bad” only in hindsight, due to Nate’s suckiness…but what did we really give up anyway. Pirates were glad to trade him because McCutchen was ready, and a lot cheaper (as Bat pointed out).

You might want to check Ugglas stats for 2011, before talking about his defense. Most perception of his defense comes from one bad allstar game. I saw Brooks Robinson commit 3 errors in one inning, for god’s sake, and he is considered the greatest defensive 3B of all time.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:31 am

I’d take an 89 win season over 20-something consecutive losing seasons, yes.

oooooor we can all mope around, point fingers, whine, and dwell on the negative. Let’s all kill ourselves, everybody!

The collapse is in the past. Can’t change it. Dwelling on it will just make you miserable.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
10:32 am

Comment about Uggla was directed at BravesFan1980.

CB

October 26th, 2011
10:33 am

Efrim,can’t agree they were stuck. Decision was made too fast,would have gotten more when teams started forming their rosters and injuries started happening in spring training.

richbrave

October 26th, 2011
10:33 am

aleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
9:44 am

richbrave – I just got a chance to read the info you sent last night. Thanks again.

That was good news about your daughter, and you too. My diabetic son almost killed himself 4 years ago by not taking care of himself, and doing things he shouldn’t. Must have been a wake-up call, because he learned his lesson, and has been pretty healthy since.

Thanx raleighbravefan, I hope the same applies here.

richbrave

October 26th, 2011
10:34 am

raleigh:

Marginal diabetes is also involved.

TnBrian

October 26th, 2011
10:34 am

Pascual, what, you don’t like tippin your cap? TIP IT BOY!

Pascual

October 26th, 2011
10:36 am

I’m not miserable man, I’m realistic, I sat through the dark days and remember them very well, but some of the moves made remind me very much of those days and I don’t care to see them again. Anyone on here remember the way 1983 played out? Similarities?

CB

October 26th, 2011
10:37 am

Some of us can barely remember there was a 1983.

richbrave

October 26th, 2011
10:38 am

CB
October 26th, 2011
9:37 am

Neither Jurrjens nor Uggla were good trades? I guess you miss Renteria and Omar, I am wondering who these”plenty of fans” are.

Ah, the silent majority CB, the silent majority. Prolly a half-dozen friends of his.

Snotboogie

October 26th, 2011
10:38 am

The collapse is in the past. Can’t change it. Dwelling on it will just make you miserable.

jeffrey, these folks (probably just 1 person) are already miserable. They just want a reason to hang it on someone.

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:39 am

if you want to convince me of Dan Uggla’s worth you better not bring up his defensive stats. Did you actually look at them yourself or just saying that to waste my time? Dan Uggla ranked as one of the worst everyday second basemen in MLB this year just like he has every year of his career. Go outside our organization and listen to what people say about him. NOBODY in that line is using his name when talking elite 2B anymore, NOBODY…

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
10:39 am

Yeah, Vazquez had a great year with the Yankees after we traded him. For him, we got a year of Melkey (mediocre), 1/2 of Uggla (traded Dunn), and their top pitching prospect, who will either be an important part of our staff in the near future, or will be a great “chip” for a future trade…and you’re complaining about that??? This doesn’t even take into account the money owed Vazquez, or the fact that he became a free agent after 1 year.

Snotboogie

October 26th, 2011
10:40 am

richbrave

Dont know if you havent noticed – Jesus Sucre is no longer in the Braves system. He is now with the Mariners org.

Murph

October 26th, 2011
10:40 am

1983? The only thing I remember about 1983 was going to see Return of the Jedi and thinking afterwards “Ewoks? Really?”.

Lew

October 26th, 2011
10:42 am

I suppose the Red Sox deal to acquire Adrian Gonzalez was meaningless, too, because they didn’t win a WS Championship with t him and that Theo Epstein was a poor GM because despite spending $330 million the past two years they saw the playoffs less than the Braves did.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
10:43 am

There are 30 starting 2B in MLB. How many would you rather have than Uggla?

CMC

October 26th, 2011
10:43 am

RC,

No way any team out there will foot the bill for Lowe in 2012. The only way the Braves can move him is if they cover most of his salary. Let’s say the Red Sox or another interested team cover $5M of the $15M salary. That is a $5M payroll savings for the Braves that they can use to cover arbitration elevated salaries for current roster players and possibly allow them to sign a needed FA. And no team will be willing to give the Braves a legit prospect in return for Lowe. No way. With all of the young pitching that is ready to step in, Lowe is simply an expensive obstacle for 2012. And unloading him with another team paying any portion of his salary would be a plus.

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:45 am

I’m not “complaining” about trading away Vasquez, merely pointing out that we got little, if anything out of him in regards to his time in Atlanta and the impact of what we got for him has had on the club to date…

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:48 am

RalieghBrave: I think you underestimate my distaste for Ugly Dan. To answer your question, about half of those guys, just take your pick, but while we’re dreaming, how ’bout Robby Cano?

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:49 am

So everything that any team has done in the history of sports is meaningless if they didn’t win the championship?

George

October 26th, 2011
10:50 am

Lew

October 26th, 2011
10:23 am
There’s not a GM in all of baseball (nor has there ever been one) that never made a bad move.

All deals are made with much in the way of hope and all of these evaluations are done with much in the way of hindsight. Much easier to make an evaluation when all of the results are in and much tougher to make a deal when you don’t know for sure what may come to pass.
*****************************************************************************************
Good morning y’all
Again LEW is the voice of reason.

N8

October 26th, 2011
10:50 am

“I’m not “complaining” about trading away Vasquez, merely pointing out that we got little, if anything out of him in regards to his time in Atlanta and the impact of what we got for him has had on the club to date…”

Really?

(1) Melky was semi serviceable in the OF and was simply a temporary stop-gap.

(2) By trading Vazquez it opened up a spot for Tim Hudson in the rotation. He’s been “ok” for us.

(3) Arodys Vizcaino is going to be a pretty big part of this team for years to come. Perhaps a VERY big part of the 2012 bullpen (replacing hacks like Linebrink and Proctor for 162 games).

(4) Mike Dunn was used to get some guy named Uggla.

Other than that……. you’re right.

Bat Masterson

October 26th, 2011
10:51 am

Anyone on here remember the way 1983 played out? Similarities? _ Pascual

I remember running into Pascual Perez at The Tango Lounge ( a strip joint) in Tampa. That was pretty funny

richbrave

October 26th, 2011
10:52 am

Simillarities between 2011 and 1983?

NIEKRO headlining the staff, BRUCE BENEDICT/BIFF POCOROBA behind the plate?

HUDSON headlining the staff, BRIAN McCANN/DAVID ROSS behind the plate.

What similarities? 88 wins vs. 89 wins? The ‘83 club was pretty good too, but that doesn’t automatically mean 2012 and especially 2013 will be 1984-85.

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:52 am

80’s – why don’t you like Uggla?

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
10:53 am

BF80 – I respect your opinion…I really do…although I don’t agree, and don’t understand your disdain for Uggla. That said, I doubt you will find anyone anywhere who will name about 15 2B they would rather have than Dan Uggla.

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
10:55 am

If the Red Sox don’t even see the playoffs during Adrian Gonzalez’ and Carl Crawford’s tenures in Boston, then yes those ridiculous moves and contracts were pretty meaningless. Why are you guys arguing this point? If you stay competitive on the cheap and never get in, nobody says a word, but if you spend as much or more than anybody and don’t get in?

David O'Brien

October 26th, 2011
10:59 am

Craig Kimbrel is the Sporting News National League rookie of the year. (BBWAA rookie award is announced in November)

jeffrey d

October 26th, 2011
10:59 am

Why are you guys arguing this point?

When Freddie Freeman singled in 2 runs to get the walk-off win against Brian Wilson this year, did it make you happy? Even though the Braves didn’t make it to the playoffs?

richbrave

October 26th, 2011
11:00 am

Snotboogie
October 26th, 2011
10:40 am

richbrave

Dont know if you havent noticed – Jesus Sucre is no longer in the Braves system. He is now with the Mariners org.

Thanx snot. Actually, I hadn’t noticed. Appreciate the heads up.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
11:01 am

GM can’t perform on the field, and cannot predict a McLouth-type drop off the table.

GM’s (along with scouts, coaches, etc.) can evaluate players, and make informed decisions. As we have tried to convince Shawn (where is he, by the way), no evalution will always be right because of injuries, human factors, and other factors which are uncontrollable or npredictable. Overall, Most knowledgeble people consider Wren an excellant GM.

Pascual

October 26th, 2011
11:02 am

Richbrave, I can argue with you that an acorn is a walnut, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so. You picked some simple information and spun it to your argument, anybody with half a brain can do that man. I meant the way the two seasons ended and the aftermath amongst the fans and media that looks so similar to this year and that should have been a LITTLE more obvious than that!

WrenGoAway

October 26th, 2011
11:05 am

The Braves will never win a WS with Frank Wren and Fredi Gonzalez. Not going out on too weak a limb with that prediction. Now Wren MIGHT just fire Fredi and hire a miracle worker and win one while he’s GM, but I ain’t holding my breath!

George

October 26th, 2011
11:06 am

Good update on nolie by Big Jake in the early am hours. Thank you Big Jake.

RC

October 26th, 2011
11:07 am

CMC,

At the crux of the Lowe arguement is what his actual value to the 2012 team is, in the role that he’d be likely to fill (bullpen). While he’s not a very good starting pitcher anymore, I do think that a pitcher of Lowe’s caliber would be a valuable asset to our bullpen, which could use a little more depth. The question is at what point would the savings to the Braves be worth more than having him in the pen as a middle-man/backup starter. I’d say you are right in assuming that $5 million is right about the break-even point. If any team wasn’t willing to pay at LEAST $5 million of Lowe’s salary next year, I think that the Braves would be better off using him in the bullpen, since they are unlikely to be able to fill the role he would have as effectively for less.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
11:07 am

richbrave – Contrary to Pascual, I would argue that you have a lot more than “half a brain”. :)

RC

October 26th, 2011
11:08 am

When I heard “cover most of his salary”, I thought you were referring to the plan that some have come up with that we would basically be paying Lowe to simply go away, which I don’t agree with. He’s a horribly overpaid asset, but he’s still an asset.

raleighbravefan

October 26th, 2011
11:09 am

A lot of unfamiliar or “cute” monikers this morning (ie WrenGoAway)…wonder how many have the same IP…

ColoradoBravesFan

October 26th, 2011
11:10 am

richbrave,

Hope your son does take care of himself. My 9 year old son was diagnosed with type I diabetes in June of this year. Really hard on him, no other kids in his school has Diabetes, and having prick his fingers and give him shots at least 3-4 times a day.

Also, keep up the reports on the Braves prospects, really love reading those and then going to look up the players. GO BRAVES…..

WrenGoAway

October 26th, 2011
11:12 am

go on the message boards on the Braves’ website and read the popular opinion of Frank Wren before you say things like that. those are some serious baseball people on there pretty much every day and MOST of those people hold a high level of disdain for the man. Knowledgeble? EVERYBODY on here considers themselves knowledgeble, that doesn’t make you singular in your “infinite wisdom” as some of you clowns like to think!

WrenGoAway

October 26th, 2011
11:14 am

I don’t usually weigh in this much I admit raleigh, but I’ve had it with the superiority complexes on here!

Efrim

October 26th, 2011
11:18 am

If the Red Sox don’t even see the playoffs during Adrian Gonzalez’ and Carl Crawford’s tenures in Boston, then yes those ridiculous moves and contracts were pretty meaningless.

Just because moves don’t work out, doesn’t mean they were wrong/meaningless.

RC

October 26th, 2011
11:19 am

I don’t usually weigh in this much I admit raleigh, but I’ve had it with the superiority complexes on here!

Me too! It wouldn’t be so bad if everyone wasn’t such and idiot…. ;)

TennesseePaul

October 26th, 2011
11:19 am

You take what you can get from guys like Constanza or trade them as fast as you can to a “genius GM” for somebody like Tim Hudson (see Charles Thomas).
–Mark Bowman.

zing!

BravesFanSince80's

October 26th, 2011
11:20 am

somebody asked me earlier why I don’t like Dan Uggla. I’ll give a couple reasons. First, I’ve always preferred defense up the middle and “power”, whatever that means in the post-steroids era, on the corners. Now IF Dan Uggla played good defense and still hit for power, you wouldn’t here anything out of me, but weak defense is a no no at 2B period in my opinion. Second, I just flat out can’t stand his swing, it’s terrible! He looks so awkward and unconventional I keep thinking some high school coach somewhere had to have fixed that years ago. The guy is strong, just imagine what he could do if he actually hit the ball with both hands still on the bat! All that said, I just can’t reconcile our middle infielders combining for almost 300 strikeouts this year, that sucks to watch every day regardless how much you like home runs going over the fence…

richbrave

October 26th, 2011
11:20 am

Thanx ColoradoBravesFan:

She’s 37, and should know better, but comes by her hard-headedness honestly. Hers is a rare inherited muscle disease that can be controlled by diet and exercise. The demands of teaching and caring for an infant are too much for her I fear, but she would be coping much better if she had continuing her diabetic diet, and taken time to exercise 20-30 minutes, six times a week. Even with that the doctor that diagnosed the disorder called her wanting to continue to work, “couragous.” Add an infant to the mix, and exaustion is the result. We do what we can, but just can’t take her stead with infant care.

flange1

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

Not sure I am really interested in the “popular opinion” on FW or anyone else.

I think I can make up my own mind without the “experts” at the other Braves blogs telling me how to think.

I really don’t need anyone else telling me how to think because we have Shaun here to do that for us.

:)

TnBrian

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

To date – Wren hasn’t hit the jackpot, but he also hasn’t lost all his money. Best way I could put it, I guess.

George

October 26th, 2011
11:21 am

David O’Brien

October 26th, 2011
10:59 am
Craig Kimbrel is the Sporting News National League rookie of the year. (BBWAA rookie award is announced in November)
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I think KIMBREL lost ROY on last game of season. It should go to FREDDY, There should be two awards, ROY pitchers and ROY position players, if that were the case the pitchers award should go to KIMBREL.

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