6:49 pm October 24, 2011, by David O'Brien
October 25th, 20112:22 pm
I am comparing McLouth to other choices as a 4th outfielder. Not comparing him to Bourn. Bourn is a much better leadoff hitter and defender, but ONLY because he is a huge threat on the bases. He was quite average in his time in Atlanta. He OPS’d 766 in Houston and 674 in Atlanta. Quite average at best.
His Atlanta numbers
October 25th, 20112:23 pm
the only affect a lower hernia has on you is it makes you VERY hesitant to pick up a 50lb bag of dog food, anybody that tells you otherwise is a moron…
October 25th, 20112:24 pm
Darn those birthers at Guinness World Records -
Fauja Singh, from Ilford, east London, attracted worldwide publicity after he completed the Toronto marathon last week.
Guinness World Records says it has not ratified the record as Mr Singh cannot show a birth certificate from 1911.
His trainer, Harmander Singh, says such documents were not made in India then.
Fauja Singh is said to hold a number of world records, but the BBC’s 5 live Investigates programme has learned that none of these records has been ratified by Guinness World Records.
His British passport, showing his date of birth as being 1 April 1911, as well as a letter from the Queen congratulating Mr Singh on his 100th birthday, have been shown to the organisation. But it says these are not considered sufficient proof of age.
A letter from Indian government officials stating that no birth records were kept in 1911, and a statement from a former neighbor in India, have also been passed to Guinness World Records, but the organisation says these too are not evidence enough.
October 25th, 20112:25 pm
And I’ve had TWO lower hernia’s and I can damn sure bet you it’d affect a major league players entire game.
October 25th, 20112:27 pm
DS1: that sounds awfully made up dude…
October 25th, 20112:28 pm
2B Uggla – 13.2
C McCann – 12
CF Bourn – 10.5
SP Hudson – 9
SP Jurrjens – 7
3B Prado – 6
RP EOF – 3
RF Heyward – 3
SP Hanson – 3
RP Venters – 2
RP Medlen – 1.5
RP Martinez – 1.3
12 players – 71.5 million
13 minimum salary players @ 450K – 5.85 million
TOTAL: 77.35 million for 2013
yeah BFS80’s I thought the same thing, sounds like he’s getting desperate to remain in control, DS1: are you a control freak or something?
October 25th, 20112:29 pm
If they wanted to go that route and sign Bourn for 10.5 million a year over like 4-5 years. I hope they wait and survey the market after next season.
October 25th, 20112:32 pm
DS1 (October 25th, 2011 1:59 pm): “can you copy this down please? McLouth will OBP and OPS better than Bourn in 2012.”
You got it, Wayne.
October 25th, 20112:34 pm
a hernia in and of itself really doesn’t have that much of an effect on you, it’s just the POTENTIAL for what could go wrong that makes it particularly dangerous, the recovery after the surgery was 1000 times worse. I went about my everyday life with the injury like nothing was wrong, with the exception of bending down low and picking up something heavy, but how often does a baseball player have to load 80 bags of concrete while batting?
Personally I don’t give a shyt if you guys believe me or not. I have the scars to prove it. And BOTH times I had a helluva lot of discomfort. Of course, I let both of mine go too far before getting them fixed. Got to the point of pushing some flesh through the abdominal wall.
But even before it got to that point, the mental image of knowing that something was torn down below would have caused most folks to adjust a swing or a throw.
The worst part of the entire experience was sneezing after the surgery!
So, yes I am a control freak. And you don”t have to agree with me. But don’t call me a liar. And I stand by my assertion that if a player had 3 good years and then had 2 bad years, I’d go looking for a reason. And if there seems to be an answer, I’d like to give that person/player the benefit of the doubt.
But again, I don’t think the Braves are going to give Nate another shot. But I would.
October 25th, 20112:35 pm
DS1, stop it! Stop it! Stop it!
May the baseball gods have mercy on your soul for even muttering the outfielder who shall not be named on this blog.
Please, baseball gods, take pity on DS1. He knows not what he does.
October 25th, 20112:37 pm
DS1 We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on Gonzo. D is more important in my world that a little bit more OBP.
little bit more, hunh? im curious where in your mind you hide the .270 OBP to keep from realizing its eye-poppingly bad.
gonzo isnt the only SS who can pick it, y’all. its like he has a spell on your or something.
I prefer the devil I know to the devil I don’t know.
i understand that. just not sure we need to go ahead and decide our best option is re-signing the absolute worst hitter on a team that was terrible offensively.
bravesfansince80s I have a fair amount of experience on the subject and a sports hernia wouldn’t affect somebody’s SWING!
uh… i think anybody knows that it absolutely would.
October 25th, 20112:39 pm
And I have a lot of allergies. Agreed the recup was a lot worse than the hernia. But again, I let both of mine go to far and in the last week or so, I couldn’t walk around the house without pain.
Like I already stated. I try to follow the logic. Player does well for 3 years. Player does lousy for 1 year. Player does a little better the next year. What changed? Where is the cause?
October 25th, 20112:40 pm
sign Bourn for 10.5 million a year over like 4-5 years.
If they do this, then we know they’ve lost their mind and just handcuffed this team again.
October 25th, 20112:41 pm
I thought you weren’t reading any of this?
Hey, I’ll bet you a burrito that Nate OPS’s better than Bourn in 2012.
October 25th, 20112:42 pm
McLout has been a mainstay of the team for a couple years now. I do not see how we could do without him. I think Wren should make him a bit happier though, and give Nate big old raise. I think that Wren has also FINALLY seen the light light on the Freeman fellow also. Word is Wren has talked Troy Glaus out of retirement and soon with be back where he belongs, vacuuming up all those errant infielder throws at 1B for the braves. As Wren said, Troy will also be a “run producer” for the Braves. I think if we can resign Linebrink everything will be coming up roses for the Barvos in 2012.
October 25th, 20112:44 pm
AT and others on the “Do Not Sign Bourn Long-term” bandwagon.
What’s the rush? Bore-us is going to take him to free agency anyway. We don’t lose a thing waiting a year. We might even save some cash if he puts up another 270/320/370 in 2012 with 60 steals. Then we can offer him a fair contract or wait for Lipka. (or some other CF’er)
October 25th, 20112:46 pm
DS1, I am not one on the sign Bourn today list. I think we should wait and see how he performs this next year.. and I certainly don’t think he’s worth more than about 8 a year over about a 4 year contract at best.
The only way Boras lets him sign this winter is if we max out what he would have made IF he waited until next year, plus pay him in 2012 what Boras thinks he is worth this year.
Nice player, but no thanks on the budget money.
October 25th, 20112:47 pm
I’ll bet you a burrito that Nate OPS’s better than Bourn in 2012.
“Hot air” deal of the day.
I was stating if the club actually gave him a contract like that this offseason they would be nuts.
AT I was agreeing with you. I can see that I was not clear on that now.
October 25th, 20112:48 pm
You want in on this action?
he was never all that good, big swinger who connected more often until pitchers figured him out and after that he’s never adjusted in a way that got him back to that level and there is NO WAY he played MLB for over two years with a bulge next to his junk that a trainer never would have noticed! Why has Nate McLouth suddenly become the first player in MLB history to fall off after early success once the pitchers figured him out?!!! Just look up Eric Hinske’s career stats if you need confirmation on this…
October 25th, 20112:49 pm
I am not Wayne. Wayne is dead to me…………….
October 25th, 20112:50 pm
Prado is afraid of the ball.
October 25th, 20112:51 pm
You might be right. I could be wrong. But when you attacked my theory and idea, I had to defend.
You understand, right?
October 25th, 20112:52 pm
No. I think the only way your premise holds is if McLouth gets a bench role and in (very) selective action ends up getting his OPS over .700.
October 25th, 20112:54 pm
Not really, it’s kinda like your trying to get everybody to drink cool-aid that just won’t go down…
Lee in S GA
October 25th, 20112:56 pm
Put me down in the 90% category to put Nate on a bus and get him get the he!! out of Atlanta.
October 25th, 20112:57 pm
I saw your 2013 salary estimates. I fully expect the Braves to try to sign a few of their arb eligible players next winter but I’d be shocked if they don’t lower their salary from 2012 to 2013.
Just because Chipper and Lowe come off the books, doesn’t necessarily mean we go out and sign someone else to “make up” for the difference.
Unless we pick up a big bat via trade and sign him to a LT contract.
October 25th, 20112:59 pm
When I first made the comment, I realized 90% of the folks would disagree. I stated that up front. Not trying to convince you otherwise, just trying to get some to think about it.
That’s all. Nothing more.
Discuss away if you like, but I think I don’t want to be a Shaun on the subject.
it’s kinda like your trying to get everybody to drink cool-aid that just won’t go down…
I guess I have to go back to my “dead horse” and beat him some more. I have to tie this in with the whole “fanbase” thing and say that you never, ever bring a guy back who signed for that kind of money and has turned in that kind of performance, you just don’t do that to the fanbase. And I’m sorry but for the money the guy was paid and what he did for that in return, it amounted to s h i t t i n g on the fanbase, don’t really care how hard he was trying, he was still laughing his a s s off on the way to the bank. You just don’t do that kind of thing to the fans, you just don’t…
October 25th, 20113:03 pm
jeffrey d: ha! awesome!
October 25th, 20113:04 pm
And that is EXACTLY why he won’t be back. But I disagree that he was laughing on the way to the bank. I just don’t see players as being that heartless towards fans.
But I will still say Nate will have a better OPS than Bourn in 2012………. somewhere.
October 25th, 20113:08 pm
richbrave – Thanks a bunch for the feedback.
Hope your tests went well yeasterday. How’s your young’un doing?
October 25th, 20113:09 pm
Here’s my best thoughts and prayers for our friend nolie. Get better soon, buddy.
October 25th, 20113:10 pm
I will concede that you may be right on the OPS stat for next season but it won’t really matter ’cause it will be in a pinch-hitting role at the MLB level for McLouth or at AAA somewhere, while Bourn will have played virtually every ballgame for us so it’s comparing apples to oranges to me and THAT’s why I only pay attention to stats when they really tell me something…
October 25th, 20113:12 pm
Seeing as how he’ll likely spend the season in the minors, you’re probably right.
October 25th, 20113:25 pm
Is Prado injury prone? We still haven’t gotten a full season out of him yet. Love his bat (at least before 2011), but do the Braves consider dealing him for some hitting help?
That one could backfire though………..
October 25th, 20113:28 pm
“It was fairly obvious throughout the season that it wasn’t a good fit.” (Frank Wren acknowledging that he knew “throughout the season” that Parrish was not getting the job but unlike winning teams, Wren did NOTHING to address the problem NOTHING!!)
As long as Wren is allowed to decimate this team the future is dark for the braves – doesn’t matter that they have a good supply of players for him to ruin or trade – it will only be a matter of time.
That quote alone makes fools out of the ownership for keeping him on…
October 25th, 20113:29 pm
..but do the Braves consider dealing him for some hitting help?
Yes because then we’d have to find people to give us tech support, investment advice and make stadium announcements. Not worth it.
October 25th, 20113:30 pm
I guess it doesn’t matter that FW’s regime has signed and developed many of those good young players that he will soon ruin or trade………………..
Stick to TV fonz.
“Is Prado injury prone?”
Since his injury last year he has been noticeably afraid of the ball.
October 25th, 20113:32 pm
Prado…..I wouldn’t call him injury prone yet, I would give him another year. But I would like the Braves to go get power OF to replace him so he can be a UT guy for all positions except SS, CF and C. That would still get him in close to 120 games especially if CHIP is our 3 bagger. I think he would be more useful in that capacity. Then when Chip retires he moves in to play 3B. But we need more pop in the OF
Yep, when you have a multi-talented individual, you gotta hang onto him at all costs.
Besides our young pitching stable, who are our trade chips? Hanson and Jurrjens kinda blew it for us this winter, imho.
Check in a little later folks.
October 25th, 20113:34 pm
ds1, how to do you rationalize a statement like that? That he knew Parrish was not the man for the job, that he watched as the team couldn’t even score with Hilda Carter back in High School and he did NOTHING.
October 25th, 20113:36 pm
Noticeably afraid of the ball? And why would that be? He didn’t get hit with a pitch. He had an infection in his leg which affected his hitting mechanics.
October 25th, 20113:39 pm
Don’t know fonz. Maybe he was thinking that since we were winning (at nearly a .600 clip before the fall), why screw with it.
That is probably the answer.
But then to go in and drop him in mid September, would probably not help either.
Some folks want to try to find some fault in every situation. Sometimes a failure is just a failure. No particular reason to point to.
So, if you’d thought Parrish was the wrong guy, would you have fired him while we were the 4th or 5th best team in baseball?
I wouldn’t have.
That would still get him in close to 120 games especially if CHIP is our 3 bagger.
Any utility player who gets 500 plate appearances is getting too many. Prado is either good enough to play every day, or he isn’t, and one can take one’s pick on that matter. But you guys trying to cram the middle by saying “make him utility and give him 500 PAs” need to make a decision on which side of the line you fall on. No chance that he gets as many games or ABs as a non-regular as some here think. If he is, by definition, he is taking appearances away from players deemed better than he.
October 25th, 20113:40 pm
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story………..
October 25th, 20113:41 pm
As far as in jury prone. He ended the 2010 season on the DL after diving sideways, making a great play and landing on his hip. Last year he got a staph infection from sliding on the grass to make a play.
Not so sure I’d want him playing with any less enthusiasm to keep from getting hurt. It’s not like he’s had por conditioning that leads to injury.
October 25th, 20113:44 pm
Probably the ideal situation on the two corner outfield positions is to keep Prado and Heyward; add a 3rd bat that is close to a 800 OPS guy and let them fight it out for time. And when Prado has to play 3rd, you’re not playing a total scrub in LF.
I’d love to think Diaz would be that guy, but his last two years are not looking good.
Hey, how about Nate McLo………….. oops, I better not go there again.
Fonz, I’m glad you made that comment about Wren. He’s quick to blame the hitting coach and players (and deservedly so), but he isn’t taking responsibility for his role in constructing this team. Wren traded for McLouth, signed D. Lowe and KK as free agents, gave Chipper a huge contract despite his age and injury history, and traded for Uggla (forcing Prado to shuttle between LF and 3B). These were all huge mistakes which are compounded by payroll limitations. Prado doesn’t have enough power to play LF in the Braves line-up because we don’t get much power from CF or RF. Also, how many years have we entered the off-season looking for a big outfield bat? One difference between the Braves and Cardinals is that 2 years ago the Braves filled their LF need by G. Anderson whereas the Cardinals signed Holliday (who would have been perfect for the Braves). In my opinion, Wren has done a very poor job constructing the Braves.
October 25th, 20113:45 pm
Prado is really your only trade chip though, unless you don’t plan on making a big splash.
For my money, I’d keep him and wait on that +.800 OPS guy to return.
October 25th, 20113:46 pm
The smarmy Wren said he was in no hurry to sign a batting instructor then he signs one a week later after about three interviews. He signs one who was famous for his teams having years of poor OBP – like that hasn’t been a problem for the Braves.
Freddie “Let’s Pitch to Kemp with a base open” Gonzales and Wren will pat each other on the back from here to eternity. My goldfish could have taken this years team to the playoffs and done so without handing the stros the best defensive outfielder in the league with a lot of potential, two good young starters and reliever who will make the feliz deal look not as bad in five years..
October 25th, 20113:47 pm
we’re going nowhere here, until the team is sold, this all amounts to p—ing in the wind…
October 25th, 20113:48 pm
If not for hindsight, some would be totally blind.
October 25th, 20113:49 pm
Well I think we need to keep him to replace Chipper but I don’t think he should be an everyday OF due to his lack of power. So you tell me what to do with him
I am damned glad I am not a pessimist………………..
Time to break out my “Proton” moniker!
October 25th, 20113:51 pm
Because we have a second baseman who can hit 30+ HRs a year and a catcher who hits 20+ per year, we CAN live with a +800 OPS LF’er that only hits 15 HR’s per year.
October 25th, 20113:53 pm
Last thought for a while………… we don’t need more homers, we need more baserunners (now, they will say why keep Gonzo!).
October 25th, 20113:54 pm
Looks like the crazies are loose on the blog again. BTW, has anyone here every even heard of fonz or Fred? Vast majority of baseball professionals (and serious fans) consider Wren one of the top executives in MLB. I think it’s more about crying out for attention, than actually trying to make a rational comment.
October 25th, 20113:56 pm
The thought of Chipper laying on the ground in pain, Prado running in from LF to take over at 3B, and McNate running around the dugout trying to find his glove makes me want to vomit. That’s what a 2 year average of .210 does to people… makes them sick.
Well I think we need to keep him to replace Chipper but I don’t think he should be an everyday OF due to his lack of power.
If they had signed Uggla and moved him to LF, would you be advocating for more power from 2B? Just because Prado doesn’t profile as a corner is not a good enough reason to sit him. People forget that the team gets power from positions that don’t normally profile that way, I guess.
Now, if the team had a singles-slapping 2B and one of those .230 catchers, I’d agree that LF is prime real estate for a banger. Hey, I stamped my foot and pouted for one for three-four years, LOL. But Uggla and McCann, along with Heyward and Freeman at 2 corners, give the team good power and good lineup depth. If Prado returns to his norms, he’s plenty fine for LF. Just as he would be for 3B, in the same lineup, even though he doesn’t profile for a corner IF position, either.
October 25th, 20113:59 pm
scoots – Haven’t you learned yet that logical thinking is forbiden here?
October 25th, 20114:00 pm
“So, if you’d thought Parrish was the wrong guy, would you have fired him while we were the 4th or 5th best team in baseball?
I wouldn’t have.”
Didn’t the Phillies do that exact thing last year in mid season?
So you would keep a known problem that you yourself felt was not going to improve the team, was bad a communicating and couldn’t get the attention of one of your closed minded child pouters (Heyward) because you don’t want to make waves?.
Why, if Wren KNEW Parrish was wrong “throughout the season,” did he let FG make a fool out of himself by letting him tell the press all his coaches were returning? He should be canned for that. There is NO WAY FG said that without first talking to Wren. No, Wren saw some saying he was the problem so he made Parrish the scapegoat for the dismal work of himself and FG. Someone should ask FG exactly what Wren told him that led him to think they were keeping his staff.
DS1, if you were in charge you would have canned Parrish like anyone would have who was not an arrogant self serving prick like Wren.
I will say that I’m certainly not averse to the idea of getting an OF banger this year, instead of next, assuming that Prado moves to 3B in 2013. It wouldn’t kill him to sit a year, knowing that 3B was soon to be his.
October 25th, 20114:02 pm
John Lackey to have Tommy John.
I guess those beers were heavy…..
October 25th, 20114:03 pm
And somehow this might be his most productive season for the Red Sox.
October 25th, 20114:05 pm
raleigh, it’s the offseason, so you gotta take a shot.
We’ve been pretty fortunate, really, all month. That late fade seemed to sour some of our more, uh, vocal participants enough to send them in search of other grist for their mill.
But it looks as if we’re due for some regression on that score, if today is any indication.
My goldfish could have taken this years team to the playoffs and done so without handing the stros the best defensive outfielder in the league with a lot of potential,
The best defensive outfielder in the league? Ears? Man, please……….. let me have some of those special peanut buttercups.
October 25th, 20114:07 pm
Thought they were drinking light beer.
The baseball gods are not to be trifled with, and that’s a fact. Payback for bad karma is a mo-fo.
Just checking in while out of town. Thanks for the new words on the new blood.
See you in 2013, John. 45.3 million left through 2014.
October 25th, 20114:08 pm
Does anyone know the namwe of the hospital where Nolie is being treated?
“name of the hospital”
October 25th, 20114:09 pm
Wow….that’s really going to affect his “Call of Duty” playing.
Everyone knows that goldfish are horrible at bullpen management… and forget about sabermetrics, they can’t even read.
However, they do give you a nice out if you’re sick of them. FLUUUSH
October 25th, 20114:12 pm
Welcome to the Big Chair, Mr. Cherington, LOL.
October 25th, 20114:13 pm
If they need someone to replace Lackey’s numbers, I know where they can find a replacement for only $15 million…..
October 25th, 20114:15 pm
C.J. Wilson’s agent just had a small heart palpitation, brought on by zeroes visualization.
will say that I’m certainly not averse to the idea of getting an OF banger this year, instead of next, assuming that Prado moves to 3B in 2013. It wouldn’t kill him to sit a year, knowing that 3B was soon to be his.
A RH stick. I still like Chris Heisey in Cincy. Just not sure what it would cost and why he isn;t walking more at the major league level. Not a star or big splash, but it would add some much needed depth, I think.
Get well, Nolie. And soon !
October 25th, 20114:18 pm
“The best defensive outfielder in the league?”
Bourn is a good outfielder but anyone who saw them both fro a month would say Schaefer got to balls Bourn was chasing to the fence. Bourn’s a pouter. Get rid of the pouters please. Oh and one thing Bourn did give us, someone who had ALREADY been trained on how to run the bases. Unlike the rest of the Braves who, after averaging about 2 SB a month, Terry Pendleton had those who were interested out early for some base running lessons. TP, best known for being a jinx, was their base running instructor. Schafe went 7 for 7 in sb after he was put on team that has minds that can think.
Oh come on you homers, wake up.
October 25th, 20114:20 pm
Not a star or big splash, but it would add some much needed depth, I think.
And then worry about 2013, in 2013, right? I could live with that, too. Either way. If they could actually make a deal for a player envisioned as a starter, this year or next, that would be good. If not, a player from the next level down is fine for a 4th OF.
murph, the only thing goldfish are good for is relief pitching. gotta have a short memory.
Buchholz has to be healthy for them. They don’t have much in terms of impact pitchers that are close, all of em are at Low-A or Rookie ball. They haven’t hit on their draft picks lately, pitching-wise, imo. Renaudo was underwhelming at High-A Salem this year.
October 25th, 20114:22 pm
Bourn’s a pouter. Get rid of the pouters please.
How many pouters they got? You’ve given us Bourn and Heyward, so far, but couldn’t you just name them all for us, so we don’t have to guess?
efrim, if only the red sox had drafted some high floor college leftys. they would have some arms ready from the last two drafts. :- )
October 25th, 20114:23 pm
Scott H. Biram’s got two songs on tonight’s Sons of Anarchy. His new CD, Bad Ingredients, is outstanding. I just got it, loving it and the new Tom Waits CD, Bad As Me.
October 25th, 20114:24 pm
They don’t have much in terms of impact pitchers that are close, all of em are at Low-A or Rookie ball.
You sink a gazillion dollars and donkey’s years into a starting rotation, you figure you’re OK for a while. Oops.
I never thought Schafer was as good defensively as advertised. Just my two cents on him. I think Bourn looks like one of the best defensive players in the league out there.
I like Heisey. Not sure why he hasn’t been given more of an opportunity in Cincy, but if they are willing to trade him we should certainly inquire.
October 25th, 20114:25 pm
“BTW, has anyone here every even heard of fonz or Fred?”
I am sorry. I didn’t know this was a private forum for Brave homers.
efrim, if only the red sox had drafted some high floor college leftys.
Can’t trade Gilmartin until after July; Red Sox shouldn’t even bother asking.
October 25th, 20114:26 pm
Joey Terdoslavich has been playing some 3B in AFL (in addition to 1B), and Braves plan to look at him more at 3B in minors this season. They think he’s got the skills to possibly play that position in majors. He played 1B and 3B in college and some 3B in first 1-1/2 seasons in minors.
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