6:49 pm October 24, 2011, by David O'Brien
October 31st, 20115:17 pm
Oh, I’m sure they will to create “more fan interest”.
October 31st, 20115:19 pm
I would like to thank Lowe for his 3 years of service. He tried his best, told it like it was, and was a professional. Good Luck in Cleveland.
But I’m glad to see him go.
As for Minor, I think Braves will give him every opportunity to earn a rotation spot, especially with him being the only lefty
“gee who hasn’t been arguing that OBP is the more important, for a decade?”
You *must* be new to this board. This is a place where some people celebrate the comment, “If OBP is so important, why don’t they put it on the scoreboard?”
I notice you refuse to use the averaged costs…
still got to 15, though…….
October 31st, 20115:20 pm
October 31st, 20115:22 pm
still got to 15, though…
Ah, but you can get to $15M with the payroll not increasing under the average cost system. That values last years payroll higher than the direct sum process.
It is gushing cold wet rain here. No kids out in this. (Sigh) looks like I have to eat all this candy myself. Really does suck for them cause I got the good stuff. Full size candy bars. Bam! Who does that? I do that.
October 31st, 20115:26 pm
I feel SOOOOOO sorry for you! NOT!!!!!!!
October 31st, 20115:27 pm
If you think the MLB Draft doesn’t have its share of questionable players who don’t work very hard after they get paid, we’ve reach a chasm we cannot breach in this conversation.
Right, but you’re putting that first and a the #1 priority. Clearly, you don’t want to draft an idiot with poor makeup. That does matter, but you’re completely exaggerating and associating high draft bonuses with players that have poor makeup. That’s ridiculous to me. There are players that receive high draft bonuses and fulfill on their promise.
We’ve discussed this entire thing before and I think we just disagree. My opinion is that you win with stars at the major league level, and depth is a lot easier to obtain than you make it out to be. When drafting as high as #7, make a more risky selection and shoot for the stars. Grow a pair. Sometimes it works out(Shelby Miller) and sometimes it doesn’t(Tyler Matzek). Right now, Shelby Miller has more value than Mike Minor I think you could agree with that, even after his poor off field decisions, no?
October 31st, 20115:28 pm
We don’t hear from TP we can figure he went into sugar toxic shock.
October 31st, 20115:32 pm
With the additional $5 million they cleared in this deal, the Braves are believed to have about $10 million or a little more now to purse additions at shortstop and the corner outfield.
Where did you see $15 million?
October 31st, 20115:34 pm
Not sure if it was posted yet on the blog, but the Mets are moving their outfield fences in for 2012.
Mets move outfield fences
October 31st, 20115:35 pm
who cares? braves drafted mike minor #7 overall and he is pitching well in the minors 2 years later. maybe starving for ML pitching had a little bit to do with the pick?
either way, we have the 21st pick coming up, i believe, and thats the one that matters.
October 31st, 20115:37 pm
and he is pitching well in the minors 2 years later.
ahem. pitching well in the majors.
October 31st, 20115:44 pm
Just read the latest tweet. Shouldn’t airport employees NOT be allowed to wear “garish” costuumes? I mean……how can TSA possibly identify them as airline employees?
October 31st, 20115:45 pm
with la russa retiring, who manages the all star game in 2012? im guessing he still does…but hes not gonna care about it.
Problem with FW getting this Lowe deal done early is that we are going to have a shortage of things to talk and complain about.
October 31st, 20115:47 pm
DAP- Should be whoever manages the Cards.
October 31st, 20115:48 pm
Lowe – 10
Chipper – 14
McCann – 5.54
Uggla – 12.4
Hudson – 9
50.94(5 above players) + 19(4 arbitration players) + 1.5 + 2 + 1.625 = 75.065 million
October 31st, 20115:49 pm
Well definitely wasn’t expecting to read that Lowe had been traded anytime soon. Good job by Wren to move that contract and add more money to what we have to spend. Don’t know the exact number but I figure its got to be in the 10-15 mil range. Minor or Delgado should be able to step up and fill the void in the rotation quite nicely. Hopefully we will acquire a quality OF and an upgrade at SS. I don’t know what Gonzo will be looking for but the market is weak at SS this year and he may find a multi-year deal elsewhere.
October 31st, 20115:52 pm
Hudson will be beack to anchor the staff. JJ is a wild card, what with all his health issues. Hanson is another question mark because one should always fear shoulder issues over elbow issues. Beachy will be back. Minor takes Lowe’s projected fifth spot. Medlen takes JJ’s spot if he is traded, or Hanson’s spot if he is traded or the shoulder proves to be more of a problem than lead to believe. Minor will be an excellent MLB pitcher for the Braves; Gilmartin waits in the wings at Gwinnett, getting his seasoning on.
All the hot shot kids go to the bullpen to help out the EOF / Venters / Kimbrel troika.
October 31st, 20116:04 pm
With Scutaro possibly out of Boston, do not be surprised if the Red Sox make a play for Gonzo. He is a better glove man than Scutaro, and Boston will have the other bats to defray Gonzo’s lack of hitting. Actually, Gonzo has a Fenway swing that might make him extremely effective up in Beantown – lots of doubles off the wall for him.
October 31st, 20116:05 pm
True. We could always discuss Heyward’s 2011 season.
October 31st, 20116:11 pm
I heard that Boston exercised Scutaro’s option. Besdies – with all the money they have, they’d go after Reyes or Rollins and not Gonzo.
October 31st, 20116:12 pm
Ceiling is by definition projection. Ergo, it’s vaporware. What cannot be argued is that:
give me a break. it is the basis for all drafting and low minor league promotion. It may not always be successful but it is still the driving force behind all such decisions no matter what you claim. Hindsight-which is what you are basing your argument on- means nothing when the selections are being made and the fact that they perhaps lucked out on a questionable pick-if in fact that turns out to be the case over the next several years-does not really have anything to do it.
October 31st, 20116:14 pm
You have to give Frank Wren credit for not wasting any time!
October 31st, 20116:15 pm
they are ridiculing that OBP statement not agreeing with it. Viral
October 31st, 20116:35 pm
If Red Sox non-tender Mike Aviles, he might be a good choice for a backup role.
October 31st, 20116:39 pm
Efrim – thanks for the posts on the Baseball America list. Much appreciated!
October 31st, 20116:51 pm
Gone Viral droppin’ the BIG TIME hammer at 5:10. Well done my friend. Pretty much nailed it.
Unless you’re Keith Law’s nephew. In that case likely aren’t going to be invited to Thanksgiving dinner anytime soon.
October 31st, 20116:59 pm
I didn’t know Minor gave up 1 earned run during his senior year of high school. That’s phenominal
October 31st, 20117:04 pm
For the dog lovers, Jason Heyward’s new pup:
October 31st, 20117:08 pm
I wonder if he bought in in celebration of the Lowe trade
October 31st, 20117:10 pm
October 31st, 20117:11 pm
Only if he knew DLowe would be traded last week…
October 31st, 20117:14 pm
October 31st, 20117:16 pm
Do you sign Grady Sizemore (age: 27) on a flyer for 2012 for one season, then sign a plus-fielding SS for a couple? Given that 2013 will be the year that Chipper is off the books and Lowe is completely off the books, that is the year to shoot for as far as signing an All Star OF is concerned.
I tread water next year and make 2013 the year to go for it. Make next year a rebuilding year for the rotation, see if we get the 2010 or 2011 version of J Hey, see if Freeman is the real deal.
Moreover, I would trade JJ and Hanson for a stud, can’t miss Triple-A LF and go with a rotation of Hudson, Beachy, Minor, Medlen, & Tehran/Delgado. Some team will take that offer, believe me.
October 31st, 20117:19 pm
Aw, it’s a lab! One of my faves.
October 31st, 20117:21 pm
If Sizemore could ever stay healthy, I would consider it, but he’s played 154 fewer games than Chipper has over the last 3 years…
October 31st, 20117:22 pm
Someone on Braves.com asked Bowman if Prado could play SS.
Not even in this winter’s Braves’ Fantasy Camp.
October 31st, 20117:24 pm
ca: there’s the rub. We got “lucky” when we traded for JD Drew. I thought it was a putrid trade back then, but the son of a buck stayed healthy for his one season with the Bravos.
I don’t think we get lucky twice.
October 31st, 20117:25 pm
That micro-fracure knee surgery is a career ender for many pro players in any sport. Damn shame at 27 and all that All Star talent.
October 31st, 20117:26 pm
I seriously doubt Wren looks at 2012 as a rebuilding year. This is still a contending team, and he’s not going to tank this season because of what could happen in 2013. This isn’t the Royals.
October 31st, 20117:28 pm
I do like Sizemore, always have, but it’s not worth the risk- He won’t be cheap, even with his history, and his numbers over his career are not spectacular enough to outweigh the injury factor, so if we are going to take a chance on someone, I’d prefer it be on someone that can stay on the field
October 31st, 20117:35 pm
N8, not surprising that you would agree with Gone Viral. What “hammer” was dropped? A playschool plastic one?
October 31st, 20117:36 pm
Man I like the way Wren gets on with his business quickly. Seems like he now knows he has about $5M-$7M to spend on a SS. I’m betting he has a set OF/IB bench with Hinske, Diaz and Constanza. And a cheap backup SS in Diory. So i think he has maybe more than he needs for Gonzo, but obviously less than would be needed for Rollins or Reyes. Might sign Gonzo and keep some $ in the bank, like he did in 2011, enabling him to go after Bourne.
I suppose lots of play would expose the holes in Constanza’s game, but with luck we don’t need him in large doses.
And geez lets give Heyward another shot. He’ll adapt I think.
And we got plenty of arm options. You never know.. but lots of arms, so I doubt we’ll spend any currency there.
We’ll over analyze it, but hard to pin down the payroll budget with more clarity. Seems like we were tapped out with planned arb and planned raises, but the Lowe deal frees up some cash.
Wow oh wow! I have been in a world of my own today and just now found out that Lowe was traded today. I would have never believed that anyone would take Lowe off our hands and save us $5mil of his $15mil salary for 2012. Add that together with the salary dumps of Kawakami, McLouth, and whomever else that I can’t remember at this moment and the offseason is looking well right now. I know that there will be some arbitration issues to be dealt with, but there shouldn’t be anyone that will break the bank in arbitration. Was glad to hear that we picked up the option on Hinske. I personally don’t care what he hits or doesn’t hit. The guy brings it everyday and that will rub off on others. Would love to see him as a coach here when his playing days are over.
Happy to see LaRussa go out a winner. He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but if I were a MLB manager, he would be the kind of manager I would pattern myself after, I think. At any rate, I wish him well with the rest of his life.
October 31st, 20117:39 pm
I predict that Josh Willingham will start in LF, and Gonzo will start at SS in 2012.
October 31st, 20117:41 pm
Projection is make believe stuff. If we were to go by stats, Joey Terdoslavich is our best prospect.
October 31st, 20117:42 pm
Owl Hunter, I sure hope not. I’d like to keep our #21 overall selection in the draft next year…
October 31st, 20117:44 pm
We’ve been linked to Willingham for years. I just have a feeling…
October 31st, 20117:45 pm
The issue is that some fans feel they got burned by Heyward, and don’t believe in upside or projection. Ridiculous…
October 31st, 20117:46 pm
I’ve got a question for DOB if he’ll spare me a minute. I read so many posts by bloggers over the years basically encouraging, if not demanding that you ask questions of players, coaches, and managers that quite frankly would probably put you in hot water with the team, your bosses, etc. My question is, during your time as a baseball writer, have you ever gotten on the bad side of any players, coaches, or managers because of some things you’ve asked? And if so, can you elaborate on some of those stories?
I personally think you do a really good job getting info to us and thank you for the job you do.
So do I, Owl Hunter. That’s why Im getting out in front of it and not agreeing with it….
October 31st, 20117:53 pm
OF J. WILLINGHAM and SS M. YOUNG to the BRAVES. O.K. BIRD-magician, let’s make it happen….without losing any draft picks either.
October 31st, 20117:56 pm
It is all projection below about AA ball. the stats are too limited to be very meaningful
One teanm might decide to go the safer route like the Braves have the last couple of years, and another team might decide to go with a higher ceiling/higher risk route but it is all based on projection at that level.
October 31st, 20117:57 pm
I’m gonna be curious to see if Fredi learns anything from the late season collapse. Will he stress to his starting pitchers to go after the hitters more so that they won’t have to be lifted so early in games after they’ve reached the 100 pitch plateau? That is why our bullpen went south on us this year. They were spent and I don’t think you can look at it any other way. Yeah, there were times when Fredi used Venters and Kimbrel when he didn’t have to. But for the most part, he had to pitch them more than he wanted to.
October 31st, 20118:03 pm
richbraves: to answer your earlier question, I live in the North Beach section of Miami Beach (71 St. / Normandy) and work in Miami Springs.
October 31st, 20118:04 pm
C CHRISTIAN BETHANCOURT [.333 BA] 1-5, 1 R, 1 HR , 2 RBI , 1 SO, 1 CS by BETHANCOURT .
DOMINICA, MEXICO, and VENEZUELA – No games scheduled.
Play begins Thursday November 3.
Games begin Friday November 4.
October 31st, 20118:08 pm
Saw the great news about Derek Lowe! What a great day, I am sure Ward is happy, too.
October 31st, 20118:11 pm
Yeah, Ward must have fainted, otherwise he would have popped in.
October 31st, 20118:12 pm
North end huh? Get to JOE’s Stone Crabs much?
McFann O O o Get Well Soon, Nolie!!
October 31st, 20118:14 pm
Heyward’s dog is a cutey!!
Anybody know his name?
October 31st, 20118:16 pm
I read some comments on the Indians page and they seemed ecstatic about the Lowe deal, but they won’t be singing the same tune in a few months.
October 31st, 20118:17 pm
Owl Hunter: our rotation may be set, but it is full of question marks above and beyond the usual.
Will any of the young starters (Tehran or Delgado) have to start next season?
How will they perform? Will they run into “The Wall” in Aug. or Sept.?
Will JJ be healthy, or even be here in 2012 for that matter?
Will Hanson’s shoulder (a bigger problem than an elbow) be a problem again?
Will Medlen come back?
Will Minor be a successful replacement for Lowe-tard (I THINK he will)?
Will Beachy continue his success?
Will Heyward come back to 2010 form?
Will Freeman avoid the sophomore jinx?
How much will the team depend on Chipper?
Will Prado stay healthy for a full season for once?
Will Uggla rebound and have a .265-.270 / 35 / 100 season, like in his Marlin years?
Pedestrian fans always get excited about possibilities. There are a lot of legit questions above that have not been answered to the extent that this team can or can’t be counted upon for a playoff run in 2012 with any reasonable certainty. Since there are so many questions, let’s use next year to get younger, rebuild, re-tool, and see what the best youngsters can do. With almost $25 mil freed up in 2013 (Chipper’s & Lowe’s $$$’s), that is the year to take next year’s evaluations and spend in the right places.
October 31st, 20118:20 pm
LOL – it rained TONS this past weekend, and I was supposed to go to Joe’s; after all, it is stone crab season. But I have a place that does all-you-can-eat stone crabs for $45, and it is better than Joe’s. I have two EXCELLENT Thai rests. in the area, and one awesome sushi place (Katana’s). Plus, awesome BBQ across the bay off 79th Street & Biscayne Blvd.
October 31st, 20118:24 pm
MiaBchBravesFan Will Prado stay healthy for a full season for once? Ditto McCann?
“For once”? Dude, they’ve had healthy seasons. And BMac’s a catcher…they get little nagging things, it comes with the territory.
October 31st, 20118:25 pm
In regard to what changes are made for the 2012 season offensively, I think the Braves are gonna give Heyward one more shot to be the player he was envisioned to be in his rookie season. I would suggest he get out of the box fast because the team had lost patience with him. Another bad start could be his end here. I keep hearing people clamoring for Willingham. Where is he gonna play? Unless Chipper retires, Prado will play left field and play it a lot better than Willingham ever could. Yes, Prado had a down year, but he didn’t fail as drastically as Heyward did. He should bounce back, but by the same token, he should not be hitting #2 behind Bourn. He doesn’t have the patience to bat behind a base stealer. Chipper should bat #2.
October 31st, 20118:29 pm
McFann, I meant it more for Prado, as the ditto was a bit mis-leading, but not by much. We recently had this conversation, and you conceded a little RE: McCann’s recent injuries. In exchange, if Ross does not have at least 27 starts next season, heavy in the summer months, then Fredi is a blithering moron.
It’s the only way to save McCann for September.
October 31st, 20118:40 pm
McFann – he named it Jhey (pronounced Jay) according to Twitter. Funny stuff.
October 31st, 20118:41 pm
Jerry, as long as Prado is healthy, he is the starting LF by default. That said, I would prefer a 3B platoon of Chipper and Prado, as I know that Chipper’s body will not be able to handle even 100 games.
The Braves desperately need a LF power bat more than anything; they can get away with a slick-fielding, minus-hitting SS and a Chipper / Prado platoon at 3B, so as long as they have a legit power bat playing LF. That is why I’d rather rebuild in 2012 and use my freed up $25 mil in 2013 for that LF bat.
If Grady Sizemore is willing to play for one season with an incentive-laden contract based only on games played, I would sign him for 2012. If he hits .265 with 20-25 homers & 75-85 RBI’s, it will be worth it; the best production that position will have seen in years. It will serve mutual purposes, as well as prime the Braves for a 2013 run with freed money.
October 31st, 20118:44 pm
Yeah, I see what you’re saying…
if Ross does not have at least 27 starts next season, heavy in the summer months, then Fredi is a blithering moron. It’s the only way to save McCann for September.
Yes…but as has been pointed out, BMac did have his best September the year he played in a career-high 145 games (132 starts)…
I think BMac needed a heckuva a lot more than the 2 or 3 days off he got this past September, though…
More than likely someone will offer Sizemore a multi-year deal, in spite of the injury concern.
October 31st, 20118:45 pm
I would suggest he get out of the box fast because the team had lost patience with him. Another bad start could be his end here.
I don’t think so, Jerry.
October 31st, 20118:55 pm
Since Time Warner and Liberty Media took over, Braves management has been forced to deal with more itinerant players than in the Turner years. There was less certainty – which they chose to ignore, especially in the last six-seven years – married to less patience with developing players. Also in the mix were putrid personnel decisions (KK, McLouth, Lowe) that dearly cost payroll flexibility for the past three seasons. IMO, this has exposed “the emperor” that is poor positional player development.
Not one single MLB-ready OF anywhere in the minors – absolutely, absurdly incompetent on Wren’s end.
The myriad of Baby Braves only have McCann to show for all the hoopla. That speaks to the debacle that was September, with no hitting to be found a-ny-where in the organization. Time to call out Wren and ask him if he knows anything about hitting and how to evaluate it; seems like he does not, and he needs help in that department – desperately.
October 31st, 20118:59 pm
McFann: if Ross gets exactly 27 legit nine inning starts, that leaves McCann at 135, a number, I feel, that will allow him to regain his Silver Slugger form. Fredi has to allow for this, without deviation. That’s four starts a month, plus an extra start in June, July, and August for Ross. The fact that other Braves do not carry their weight hitting wise is what forces Cox and Fredi in the past three seasons to ride McCann into the ground.
October 31st, 20119:05 pm
cabravesfan: with micro-fracture surgery on one knee and surgery on the other, I don’t think so, at least in the NL, where he has to play the OF; will his career average make him a legit DH signing for an AL team? Don’t think so either, which is why for one year he is a worthy signing, with an incentives contract based on games played.
October 31st, 20119:07 pm
That seems reasonable.
October 31st, 20119:08 pm
When I say multi year, I am thinking like, 2 years, not 4 or 5…but I still wouldn’t want to risk it- even if he doesn’t get hurt, how are his knees going to hold up all year? Just not worth it when there are others available that are much more durable.
October 31st, 20119:23 pm
Halvy (Seattle, WA): The write-up said, “Atlanta has shifted its draft philosophy. The Braves used to focus on younger players. Now they concentrate primarily on college players who might have lower ceilings but cost less and will move faster through the minors.” The Braves have an embarrassment of high-end young pitching talent, and the last few years have seen them graduate Heyward and Freeman, among others. It seems like the old philosophy was clearly effective. Why the change? What is the rationale behind moving away from something that has worked so well? Thanks for your insight.
Bill Ballew: The initial reason was to add depth to the middle of the farm system, particularly among the position players, where the organization had become very thin while focusing so much on young pitching in the draft. The second part to the equation is an assumption on my part, but I believe it involves ownership putting the squeeze on the budget. The Braves did not any significant money this year in the draft or on the international front after signing Mike Minor and Edward Salcedo in 2010. It seems to me that the commitment from Liberty Media is lukewarm at times, which has contributed to the limited number of a big-splash amateur signings in recent seasons.
October 31st, 20119:43 pm
October 31st, 20119:44 pm
The thing that I have liked least about Wren’s tenure so far was breaking up the old draft crew and replacing them with his cronies from elsewhere
I have but one question: What the heck was Cleveland thinking?
October 31st, 20119:49 pm
I think they value his groundball tendencies and ability to keep the ball in the park. For 5 million, I guess you could do worse…..
October 31st, 20119:51 pm
GREAT TRADE 4 CKEVELAND
October 31st, 20119:53 pm
CKEVELAND could really use him, Harry, but he went to Cleveland.
October 31st, 20119:54 pm
Pitchers have bounce back years, but Lowe will be 39 next year, and I don’t see him as the Jamie Moyer type.
October 31st, 20119:55 pm
It’s actually a pretty low risk trade for Cleveland- $5 million for a veteran pitcher that eats innings and can help steady an inconsistent staff, if he can pitch like he is capable of pitching…and if he doesn’t, it’s only a one year deal
October 31st, 20119:56 pm
For 5 million, I guess you could do worse…..
Some reasonable people said all along the Braves could get 5mm for Lowe, still its like monopoly money.
October 31st, 20119:59 pm
Meanwhile, this has to be one of the worst MNF games I have watched in a long time
October 31st, 201110:00 pm
$5 mill = chump change. I’m in the wrong biz.
October 31st, 201110:03 pm
I will miss however looking and fantasizing over lowes great but every 5th day, oh well i can get extra inning package and still see lowes but, YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 31st, 201110:05 pm
If you want to feel even worse, Kim Kardashian made over $10,000 for every hour she was married to Kris Humphries.
October 31st, 201110:07 pm
Where’s a Ward when you need one? o.o
Well, some pervert is playing imposter tonight, so see yall later.
October 31st, 201110:08 pm
I WOULD RATHER BE MARRIED TO DEREK LOWE, YUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 31st, 201110:09 pm
ITS SEE YOU LATER NOT SEE YALL LAYER YOU UNEDUCARED HICK
October 31st, 201110:12 pm
more escaped nut jobs I see
October 31st, 201110:15 pm
Adam Rubin of ESPN New York had the following tweets:
Alderson still projected a $100 million to $110 million payroll in 2012, but said you start lower and get there during year.
If you understand that Santana, Wright, Bay, Dickey & Pelfrey get about $65 million, you do math and tell me if Jose Reyes is coming back.
If I were Alderson, I’d give the guy 20 million a year. I understand it’s an overpay and he is injury prone, but I’m just not sure what the plan is if they don’t sign Reyes. May as well deal Wright too – if you’re going to rebuild, do it right.
I wish Lowe nothing but success. What did he ever do? Struggle as a late 30’s pitcher – come on! Hey they offered him a contract no sane person would turn down. He apparantly was a hard worker who seemed like he tried way too hard and over thought out there, it got him all messed up. I don’t know that obviously, but it sure seemed he fought himself costantly on that mound. Sorta painful actually. I appreciated his honesty and they say he worked hard with the younger pitchers. Good luck sweaty one.
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