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4,024 comments Add your comment
Dadgum.....
October 31st, 2011
3:33 pm
Matt Young and Chipper are considered leaders by their teams. Neither can carry the team any longer. That was my point. I contend that the Braves would be better off without Chipper at 3rd but that will have to wait a year. We need to move Prado permanently to 3rd and find a Nelson Cruz type for LF. Again I know that has to wait a year or at least until Chipper hits the DL. The over/under on that will be mid-May.
DAP
October 31st, 2011
3:35 pm
Matt Young and Chipper are considered leaders by their teams.
ha! gee whiz…
P-Town Brave ©
October 31st, 2011
3:36 pm
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
ITS MICHAEL YOUNG….
MICHAEL MICHAEL MICHAEL!
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
3:37 pm
Braves would be better off without Chipper at 3rd but that will have to wait a year. We need to move Prado permanently to 3rd
I always find this line of reasoning a little humourous, considering that Prado has played an average of about 7 games more per year than Chipper, in the last three years. Prado has his own issues with staying on the field.
flange1
October 31st, 2011
3:38 pm
Dadgum,
I think you mean Michael Young not Matt Young!
Dadgum.....
October 31st, 2011
3:41 pm
Yeah…you know, Michael Matt Young.
McFann O O o Get Well Soon, Nolie!!
October 31st, 2011
3:41 pm
“All these guys are my good friends, and I want to go out there and battle with them,” Hinske said. “I don’t want to be with any other team. I want to be with the Atlanta Braves. I want to play with Brian McCann and Chipper Jones and David Ross and Dan Uggla. These guys are my boys.”
Tomas
October 31st, 2011
3:42 pm
People have their opinions about the way they’re drafting all wrong. They were going to draft Robert Stephenson who signed for a 2 million signing bonus with the Reds who picked 27th.
Robert Stephenson is a high school draftee who has a high ceiling with a mid 90’s fastball. Signed for 2 million. Sean Gilmartin signed for 1.15 million.
In scouting director Tony DeMacio’s two years on the job, Atlanta has shifted its draft philosophy. The Braves used to focus on younger players and mined talent-rich Georgia as well as any club protected its borders. Now they concentrate primarily on college players who might have lower ceilings but cost less and will move faster through the minors.
When you pick 28th in the draft you don’t have the luxury to pick up the best players in the draft. They were aiming high with Robert Stephenson, couldn’t since the Reds drafted him. Baseball America is giving thoughts on what they think they’re doing, it’s not a reality. And since Mike Minor has excelled all expectations and Gilmartin seems like a good pitcher I’m giving Braves scouting director the benefit of the doubt.
They also seem to ignore the fact that they signed Edward Salcedo to a 1.6 million signing bonus in the international draft. In other words, don’t believe everything you read.
jeffrey d
October 31st, 2011
3:43 pm
I think Chipper has meant way more to the Braves than Neil Young has meant to the Rangers.
P-Town Brave ©
October 31st, 2011
3:44 pm
Jeffrey d-
Well I hope Neil Young will remember
flange1
October 31st, 2011
3:46 pm
Mike Minor exceeded expectations? He was a number 7 overall pick.
Who’s expectations have been exceeded? He really has not done anything yet.
P-Town Brave ©
October 31st, 2011
3:46 pm
And besides, ya know….I mean he has to mean more than Sean Young does to Texas…
Unless you’re confusing Finkel and Einhorn
CB
October 31st, 2011
3:47 pm
Maybe he meant Egg Foo Young?
Murph
October 31st, 2011
3:48 pm
I dunno, without Vince Young, where would Texas have been over the last few years?
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
3:48 pm
ncscoots, yeah, there is a very good chance the Braves would be much better off with Chipper at third than Prado for another season. Beyond next season, I’m also not so sure Prado would be all that great a player at thirdbase, either. I think he’d be fine, but I don’t think he’s going to make anyone forget Chipper, even late-in-his-career Chipper.
Chipper has a 120 OPS+, 2009-2011. I would bet Prado doesn’t come all that close to matching that in 2012-2014 or 2013-2015. Maybe if things go perfectly for him, he’ll be a 120 OPS+ type hitter in a season or two out of the next four.
jeffrey d
October 31st, 2011
3:48 pm
That’s not to say that Michael J. Fox hasn’t been an important part to the Rangers franchise
jeffrey d
October 31st, 2011
3:49 pm
I dunno, without Vince Young, where would Texas have been over the last few years?
But see…that one actually works.
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
3:49 pm
When you pick 28th in the draft you don’t have the luxury to pick up the best players in the draft.
That’s a bunch of garbage. For years the Red Sox were picking at the back of the draft and did very well with paying above slot for talent. Even if you’re not paying big dollars, why in the world would you draft a college kids strictly throughout the entire process? Why not mix it up a bit? You can still find talented players at the back of each round.
They also seem to ignore the fact that they signed Edward Salcedo to a 1.6 million signing bonus in the international draft. In other words, don’t believe everything you read.
Yeah, in February of 2010. Tomorrow is November 2011 and they haven’t spent big on an International free agent since then. That’s fine, because it isn’t as wise to dump money into that area, imo, but explain the fact that they have spent under 8 million the last two drafts – which is the second least in the majors.
Go ahead and listen to the Braves homers if you want, but nearly every somebody regarding the Rule IV draft has had nothing but bad things to say about the 2011 class and the Braves recent draft evaluations and strategy.
Arkansas Transplant
October 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
Now lets assemble a good package deal and grab an impact LFer.
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
And I’m not saying the Braves should go with all risks. The Phillies do this, and it’s a bit more risky than I’d like to be. Need to have a good balance…
jeffrey d
October 31st, 2011
3:54 pm
Like Robert Braun
Murph
October 31st, 2011
3:55 pm
Great… see, you guys just had to open up a debate about Chipper vs Prado and now Shaun is back.
Countdown to Prado vs Heyward debate in 3… 2… 1…
Snotboogie
October 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
Countdown to Prado vs Heyward debate in 3… 2… 1…
Is that a countdown to the countdown?
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
Countdown to Prado vs Heyward debate in 3… 2… 1…
Don’t start nothin’, won’t be nothin’. Takes two to dance.
Tomas
October 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
flange1, not the Braves,everyone else expectations. Braves expected this.
The pre-draft expectation was Minor should’ve gotten drafted 12th and Braves got him at 7.
Arkansas Transplant
October 31st, 2011
3:56 pm
I think Braun may be untouchable.. but yes along those lines.
Arkansas Transplant
October 31st, 2011
3:57 pm
Well, Prado was clearly more productive then Heyward this past season.
Arkansas Transplant
October 31st, 2011
4:00 pm
And, players like Willingham and Cuddyer still have to be offered in order for us to loss a draft pick.
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
4:02 pm
Murph, if I wanted to start a debate, I’d say this…
How about that World Series? How about the 6th- or 7th-best team in baseball winning it all? Great drama but what’s the point of a 162-game regular season when a team in the tier of the Braves/Cardinals/Blue Jays/Diamondbacks can win the World Series?
Not to take anything away from the Cardinals. They did what they had to do and earned their Series win. But expanded playoffs without more of a disadvantage to the teams that clearly don’t belong in the mix with the big boys takes too much away from the regular season.
I think adding another playoff team could actually improve things from where they are now (since we aren’t going back to fewer teams), as long as the worst teams are playing in a one-game playoff and there is no off-day between the one-game playoff and the next-round series with the best team in the league.
Arkansas Transplant
October 31st, 2011
4:03 pm
Shaun, I don’t see the debate in that? Doesn’t really interest me.
MFin04
October 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
Braves sign Carlos Beltran yet?
Tom O'Hawke
October 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
cabravesfan
I hope the divorce announcement of your high school BFF, Kim Kardashian, on the same day as your anniversary, doesn’t put a damper on your celebration. (snicker)
Shaun’s back? That kills my theory that Shaun was really nolie.
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
4:04 pm
Actually, Baseball Reference has the Cardinals as around the 9th-best team, according to their Simple Rating System, tied with Arizona and Toronto.
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
4:05 pm
Tom (San Francisco, CA): More of an observation, but I can’t help but think that the Braves are an organization in decline. From their alternately tight-fisted and indifferent ownership, to the mildly addled leadership of Frank Wren & Fredi Gonzalez to the shift in drafting philosophy that has nothing to do with the “Braves way”, I don’t hold out a lot of hope that they’ll be able to sustain any degree of competiveness. Thoughts?
Bill Ballew: Tom, I have to admit I’ve had similar thoughts, although I’ve mellowed on some of those assessments since doing some pretty deep digging into the organization over the past month. I believe Wren and Gonzalez are better than “mildly addled” in terms of leadership, but you are not the first to suggest that. I agree with the ownership being tight-fisted and indifferent, which has tied Wren’s hands much of the time. The past two drafts have been unusual, especially since scouting director Tony DeMacio is a direct descendant of Paul Snyder, but frankly one or two of Roy Clark’s drafts turned out to be fairly mediocre. I think it is most accurate to say that the Braves continue to have top prospects, but I don’t see as many mid-level guys as in the past. Of course, that could change with the development of several guys drafted out of college, but their shortened shelf life is what worries many Braves fans.
richbrave
October 31st, 2011
4:05 pm
I never really had any hope of moving LOWE for any amount of money let alone for 10 million and an old arm in the lower minors named CHRIS JONES.
McOUT is gone……..good. KK is gone………great. LOWE is gone……..unbelievable. LaRUSSA’s gone……. fan f*****g-tastic. I’m delirious with the jollies.
‘SKI is back. I didn’t think he’d be, but I’m happy to be wrong about him, and the BRAVES.
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:06 pm
The pre-draft expectation was Minor should’ve gotten drafted 12th and Braves got him at 7.
Man, I’m sorry, but you only have to look at the folks who were taken after Minor in the first round to know the Braves could have done better with that pick.
jeffrey d
October 31st, 2011
4:07 pm
according to their Simple Rating System
Is it the Win/Loss column?
MiaBchBravesFan
October 31st, 2011
4:08 pm
HALLE – F@#$%&! – LUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
4:08 pm
players like Willingham and Cuddyer still have to be offered in order for us to loss a draft pick.
First, I see no reason both of them don’t get offered arbitration – Oakland and Minny would probably love to have them both back, even at slightly more than they made in 2012(yes, even Cuddyer). Second, if we sign them prior to the deadline, we lose a first rounder. They have already been designated Type A status.
MFin04
October 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
Glad Hinske is back. Hate the term but I think he really is a “good clubhouse guy”, seems to keep everyone loose and can come off the bench and hit for power.
richbrave
October 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
P-Town Brave ©
October 31st, 2011
3:44 pm
Jeffrey d-
Well I hope Neil Young will remember
What, that a Southern man don’t need him around anyhow……..
Tomas
October 31st, 2011
4:09 pm
Efrim, because you pay less doesn’t automatically mean they’re cheap. Maybe they’re smarter, Albert Pujols was the 402nd pick in the 1999 draft and signed for 60,000.
$ doesn’t necessarily mean succes.
cabravesfan
October 31st, 2011
4:10 pm
Tom-
I’m devastated. I think I will drown my sorrow at the end of her second “marriage” in wine and the delicious mud pie in my freezer.
On a way cooler note, Meds dressed up like a teletubby for Halloween and posted a pic on twitter. I love him…
MiaBchBravesFan
October 31st, 2011
4:10 pm
Today is the first GOOD day as a Braves fan that I have had in TWO MONTHS!!!
Count the number of Wren mistakes that had to be rectified, done so today!!! (Had to stick that jab in there…)
richbrave
October 31st, 2011
4:10 pm
MIKE YOUNG, AND JOSH WILLINGHAM
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:11 pm
and there is no off-day between the one-game playoff and the next-round series with the best team in the league.
There is zero chance that there will not be an off-day between the two. For one, the players union would never agree to it. For two, the TV networks would never agree to it.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:11 pm
“Baseball America is giving thoughts on what they think they’re doing, it’s not a reality.”
Right, the statement in question is sloppy, thoughtless analysis and yet it’s being argued as fact. If we had picked a high school player, they would have found a way to make the same argument since it’s what they choose to believe, independent of fact.
richbrave
October 31st, 2011
4:12 pm
Welcome back from the land of the disaffected o’ South Beach Brave. Where you at anyhow MBBF, N.W., S.W., downtwon, where?
flange1
October 31st, 2011
4:14 pm
Just bouncing around the internet and found this story about a guy talking to Kurt Cobain through a medium.
Pretty interesting read.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/entertainment/128092/i_went_to_a_psychic
MFin04
October 31st, 2011
4:17 pm
“Meds dressed up like a teletubby for Halloween and posted a pic on twitter. I love him…”
I thought he was going to go as a Lesbian Softball Player for the Braves…oh wait…
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:17 pm
“Man, I’m sorry, but you only have to look at the folks who were taken after Minor in the first round to know the Braves could have done better with that pick.”
This is another argument that won’t die any time soon, but it’s easy to refute. The player taken #6 in the draft, Zack Wheeler, is one that a lot of people here wanted the Braves to take. The Mets *only* took Zack Wheeler in a Carlos Beltran trade after the Braves refused to part with Mike Minor, the player selected -after- him in the 2009 draft. Minor was a brilliant draft choice and that has been reinforced by the sheer volume of major league teams who hoped to acquire him at the trade deadline.
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
4:17 pm
Efrim, because you pay less doesn’t automatically mean they’re cheap. Maybe they’re smarter, Albert Pujols was the 402nd pick in the 1999 draft and signed for 60,000.
$ doesn’t necessarily mean succes.
Never said more money means success, but it doesn’t help the situation.
TennesseePaul
October 31st, 2011
4:18 pm
Efrim, did you notice, DOB has listed about $15M in payroll room this off-season. I think the “average value” calculation is more in line if he’s getting that approximation from someone near the team and not from my two-bottles-of-wine-deep-on-a-case-of-beer-night posts. ( :
richbrave
October 31st, 2011
4:18 pm
EFRIM:
“WELL, I’m not saying bad things about the 2011. So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Injun.” – HOMER ‘the WHISTLER’ WINSLOW
TennesseePaul
October 31st, 2011
4:19 pm
$ doesn’t necessarily mean succes.
That is true. But a philosophy of avoiding players who might cost money also doesn’t mean success.
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
4:20 pm
Minor was a brilliant draft choice and that has been reinforced by the sheer volume of major league teams who hoped to acquire him at the trade deadline.
Signability and probablity of becoming major league players, right Gone Viral? You want Braves draftees to “want to be Atlanta Braves”, iirc ….
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
4:21 pm
Arkansas Transplant, it should interest/concern all fans that baseball lets in so many playoff teams after a 162-game season, without much incentive in the playoffs to be one of the best teams in the regular season.
What if, down the road, the Braves dominate a great division throughout a 162-game regular season but get beat out in a close playoff series against a clearly inferior team? Sure, the inferior team may have earned the victory and did what they needed to do and took advantage of the system as constructed but why even bother playing a 162-game regular season?
richbrave
October 31st, 2011
4:23 pm
Enter your comments
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:24 pm
I do, yes. It’s the JaMarcus Russell scenario. Once a guy is guaranteed enough money to live well, their incentive to excel is oftentimes negated. You want Todd Van Poppel and I want Chipper Jones.
That’s a side issue to the front office opinions regarding Mike Minor, though.
ZWacky
October 31st, 2011
4:24 pm
Minor was a brilliant draft choice and that has been reinforced by the sheer volume of major league teams who hoped to acquire him at the trade deadline
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:24 pm
Minor was a brilliant draft choice and that has been reinforced by the sheer volume of major league teams who hoped to acquire him at the trade deadline.
To which I reply: Mike Trout. Drew Storen. Shelby Miller.
Off the top of my head.
TennesseePaul
October 31st, 2011
4:24 pm
there is no off-day between the one-game playoff and the next-round series with the best team in the league
The first year of this wildcard playoff will also be the year baseball sees three way ties in 4 of the divisions and a 7 way tie for the wild card leading to about 2 weeks of 1 game elimination baseball all going about 19 innings each. Total Mayhem.
Tomas
October 31st, 2011
4:25 pm
ncscoots, Drew Storen is the only guy right now that has outperformed Mike Minor and he is a closer. It’s too early to tell, but Minor hasn’t been a bad pick
7 ATL Michael Minor LHP Vanderbilt University Chapel Hill, TN
8 CIN Michael Leake RHP Arizona State University Fallbrook, CA
9 DET Jacob Turner RHP Westminster Christian Academy (MO) St. Charles, MO
10 WSH Drew Storen RHP Stanford University Brownsburg, IN
11 COL Tyler Matzek LHP Capistrano Valley H.S. (CA) Mission Viejo, CA
12 KC Aaron Crow RHP University of Missouri (2008) Wakarusa, KS
13 OAK Grant Green SS University of Southern California Anaheim Hills, CA
14 TEX Matthew Purke LHP Klein H.S. (TX) Spring, TX
15 CLE Alex White RHP University of North Carolina Greeneville, NC
16 ARI Bobby Borchering 3B Bishop Verot H.S. (FL) Alva, FL
17 ARI A.J. Pollock OF University of Notre Dame Hebron, CT
18 FLA Chad James LHP Yukon H.S. (OK) Yukon, OK
19 STL Shelby Miller RHP Brownwood H.S. (TX) Brownwood, TX
20 TOR Chad Jenkins RHP Kennesaw State University Canton, GA
21 HOU Jiovanni Mier SS Bonita H.S. (CA) Pomona, CA
22 MIN Kyle Gibson RHP University of Missouri Grennfield, IN
23 CWS Jared Mitchell OF Louisiana State University New Iberia, LA
24 LAA Randal Grichuk OF Lamar Consolidated H.S. (TX) Rosenburg, TX
25 LAA Michael Trout OF Millville Senior H.S. (NJ) Millville, NJ
26 MIL Eric Arnett RHP Indiana University Pataskala, OH
27 SEA Nicholas Franklin SS Lake Brantley H.S. (FL) Alamonte Springs, FL
28 BOS Reymond Fuentes OF Fernando Callejo H.S. (PR) Manati, PR
29 NYY Slade Heathcott OF Texas H.S. (TX) Texarkana, TX
30 TB LeVon Washington 2B Buchholz H.S. (FL) Gainesville, FL
31 CHI Brett Jackson OF University of California – Berkeley Orinda, CA
32 COL Tim Wheeler OF Sacramento State University Sacramento, CA
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:27 pm
The first year of this wildcard playoff will also be the year baseball sees three way ties in 4 of the divisions and a 7 way tie for the wild card leading to about 2 weeks of 1 game elimination baseball all going about 19 innings each. Total Mayhem.
I like it, LOL. Serves ‘em right.
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
4:33 pm
TennesseePaul, why are ties more likely with the newer format than with the old?
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
4:34 pm
TennesseePaul, it’s already total mayhem when you have teams like the 2003 Marlins, 2006 and 2011 Cardinals and others winning the World Series without the deck stacked against them all the much in the postseason.
P-Town Brave ©
October 31st, 2011
4:35 pm
Tomas-
I beg to differ….
Aaron Crow was an All-Star in 2011 and I think Mike Trout outperformed him as well….
CB
October 31st, 2011
4:36 pm
Is this guy for real?
longtimebravesfan
October 31st, 2011
4:37 pm
One thing that I am very happy about (and a bit surprised about) is that Wren was able to trade Lowe on virtually the first day of the off season. The $5 million saved and the roster spot opened give the Braves many new options as we move in the off season. Now it will be easier to focus on shortstop, back-up infielder and possible outfield acquisitions. And the front office has a much clearer idea of what the payroll will be, pending arbitration cases.
A great start to the off season!
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:39 pm
“To which I reply: Mike Trout. Drew Storen. Shelby Miller.
Off the top of my head.”
Trout went 25 and Miller went 19. The discussion was top 12 for whatever reason (I haven’t read backboards). Having said that, Storen is the only one who has proven more than Minor to date. Trout looks like he’s going to be a good one but he wasn’t even Anaheim’s top choice in the draft.
To a larger point, Braves fans are frustrated about something infuriating that just happened and we are looking for avenues to express our outrage. Mike Minor isn’t one of them. We know how highly thought of haq
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:40 pm
*ahem* how highly thought of he is around the league based on all of the trade interest in him at the deadline. Arguing against him is arguing against some of baseball’s finest minds.
(Kitten jumped on the keyboard, sorry.)
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:41 pm
“I see that the homers are stepping up now to insist that anything negative written about the Braves can not possibly be true”
I was here the day of the 2009 draft evaluating all of our selections. None of my statements have changed in the interim as the rest of baseball has evolved their opinion of Minor. Can you say the same?
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:43 pm
The discussion was top 12 for whatever reason (I haven’t read backboards).
Ah. No, I was saying that there were more than a few players on the board and available at 7 that I would have taken before Minor. Not the other way around.
And, “to date” is hardly the proper evaluation of whether the Braves could have made a better pick at that spot. That’s my opinion, anyway.
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
4:46 pm
did you notice, DOB has listed about $15M in payroll room this off-season. I think the “average value” calculation is more in line if he’s getting that approximation from someone near the team and not from my two-bottles-of-wine-deep-on-a-case-of-beer-night posts. ( :
Hah!! Love it. Yeah, I saw. Okay, here goes:
Jones – 14
Uggla – 13.2
McCann – 8.6+let’s say 2 million = 10.66
Lowe – 10
Hudson – 9
Bourn – 7.1(mlbtr)
Jurrjens – 5.1(mlbtr)
Prado – 4.4(mlbtr)
O’Flaherty – 2.4(mlbtr)
Diaz – 2
Ross – 1.625
Hinske – 1.5
12 players = 80.895 million. Let’s just say 81 million.
So they have 15 million to play with not counting minimum salary players and a slight increase in payroll like Wren said. I’ll buy it….
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:46 pm
None of my statements have changed in the interim as the rest of baseball has evolved their opinion of Minor.
Has the rest of baseball evolved in their opinion, though? Do teams now think he’s more than a middle- or back-end-rotation guy?
ZWacky
October 31st, 2011
4:50 pm
the question was never about whether Minor would likely be a useful major leaguer. The question has always been about his upside for a # 7 draft pick.
There is always interest in a decent left hander, so it is no surprise that other teams are interested in him, though we have no way of knowing how acute that interest is, simply that it is there.
Getting a #3 starter with the #7 draft pick is safe but certainly does not constitute a “brilliant” selection.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:50 pm
“And, “to date” is hardly the proper evaluation of whether the Braves could have made a better pick at that spot. That’s my opinion, anyway.”
That’s actually an excellent topic in and of itself, performance versus projection. I have said many times here that I believe performance relative to competition is a much more accurate manner of evaluating players rather than projection, which is cloud talk much more often than not. In the NFL Draft, I prefer guys who have torn up the SEC to ones who have feasted on weak competition (such as PAC-10 defenses). I feel the same way of baseball and what can be said of Minor is that he has excelled every step of the way. He gave up 1 (!) earned run as a high school senior, he was the anchor of the Team USA staff (over Strasburg) and won the deciding game for them, and he has a 2.82 ERA in 134 innings at AAA. Mike Minor is a known commodity and a great one. Your analysis is that you project others to be better. I would encourage you to list the names of ones that you believe went after Minor that will have better careers then track it over time. See whether you were right or not. It’s a great learning exercise. I believed in Baseball America a lot more until I studied their track record for this very reason.
Snotboogie
October 31st, 2011
4:51 pm
Is this guy for real?
Depends – is C3PO real?
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:53 pm
See whether you were right or not.
Oh, please. Of course, I’ll be right, LOL. Goes without saying.
CB
October 31st, 2011
4:55 pm
SB,I just couldn’t believe he didn’t realize TP was joking about the ties in playoff games. Dang these serious as death posts.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:56 pm
“Has the rest of baseball evolved in their opinion, though? Do teams now think he’s more than a middle- or back-end-rotation guy?”
At the very least, the Mets front office thinks he’s better than Wheeler. I have said several times that I don’t buy that middle/back end of the rotation stuff as 35 starts is 35 starts (and was pleased to see that Chris Carpenter agrees with me), so I’m the wrong guy to ask there. If the subject is whether I believe he has improved his stock as a minor leaguer, the answer is absolutely yes. Any time a kid strikes out 10 per 9 innings and a strikeouts to walks ratio of 3.6, he has the attention of scouts.
Most organizations would be ecstatic to have a prospect like Minor. I legitimately do not understand why he has been diminished by Braves fans since day one here.
Just Pat
October 31st, 2011
4:56 pm
Been hanging out here reading, not posting, but I did discover one thing during the Series. I get a whole lot more “invested” in the team I want to win over a 7 game series than a 5 game series. That’s why I’d like to see THOSE games expanded to 7 games rather than 5.
Just Pat
October 31st, 2011
4:56 pm
Oh, rather than adding another wild card team, I mean.
Snotboogie
October 31st, 2011
4:57 pm
CB
Facts CB, Facts.
No place for humor or sarcasm.
ncscoots
October 31st, 2011
4:58 pm
I don’t buy that middle/back end of the rotation stuff as 35 starts is 35 starts
I’ll have to wait until another day to explain why that’s wrong, and why rotation slot actually does count.
Time for me feed my animals.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
4:59 pm
“The question has always been about his upside for a # 7 draft pick.”
And the answer is that if you evaluate his performance to date against all of the other players taken in the first round, Minor is going to be on the short list of the top five or six names. Other than the fact that he is a college player, there has -never- been a logical argument against his resume. People here simply wanted a high school arm for whatever reason and have always resented him for being more polished than that.
ZWacky
October 31st, 2011
5:00 pm
I legitimately do not understand why he has been diminished by Braves fans since day one here.
it has certainly been explained often enough. Too low an expected ceiling for a # 7 draft pick. I fail to see how hard that is to understand
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
5:01 pm
None of my statements have changed in the interim as the rest of baseball has evolved their opinion of Minor.
No, I’ve seen plenty of people go back to what they thought he was – a polished pitcher who would move fast through the system and has mid-rotation upside.
I do, yes. It’s the JaMarcus Russell scenario. Once a guy is guaranteed enough money to live well, their incentive to excel is oftentimes negated. You want Todd Van Poppel and I want Chipper Jones.
Terrible example when referring to players that get drafted in the Rule IV draft. You’re comparing a guy who was destroyed for his lack of desire in college and it, as many predicted, translated to the pros. An absurd statement.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
5:01 pm
“I’ll have to wait until another day to explain why that’s wrong, and why rotation slot actually does count.”
Meh. People used to think I was crazy for arguing that OBP was more important than batting average as well. Most of them stopped doing that about 10 years ago. Wins and losses don’t get weighted any by where in the rotation the starter theoretically falls.
ZWacky
October 31st, 2011
5:03 pm
the expectation was that he would get to the majors fairly quickly, that’s what high floor-low ceiling means. at this point he was expected to be among the better picks, the question has always been about his ceiling a few years down the road not about his floor which was always assessed as fairly high
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
5:05 pm
Whether a guy is a mid-rotation guy or #1 starter potential DOES matter. General managers, or “some of baseball’s finest minds” use these labels to determine value, Gone Viral. Why should be not use these labels? Because we’re not plugged in like Bill Shanks, LOL.
ZWacky
October 31st, 2011
5:06 pm
gee who hasn’t been arguing that OBP is the more important, for a decade? only old fogeys
Efrim
October 31st, 2011
5:07 pm
Ah, I got one in!
Efrim (CT): Given that their drafting strategy has changed and gone from high school players with upside to low ceiling/high floor college players, is this the last year the Braves are viewed as a strong farm system?
Bill Ballew: Farm systems are always in a state of flux; it’s the nature of the beast. Does it appear at this point that the Braves will be hurting in terms of having a plethora of top-shelf prospects next year if the top three graduate? Yes. But player development will be the cornerstone of the Braves for years to come, and I expect they will continue to thrive in that department, even if they falter a little on the prospect lists over the next season or so.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
5:10 pm
“Too low an expected ceiling for a # 7 draft pick. I fail to see how hard that is to understand”
It’s not hard to understand, it’s just a nonsense argument. Ceiling is by definition projection. Ergo, it’s vaporware. What cannot be argued is that:
A) Minor gave up 1 one earned run as a high school senior. One.
B) Minor was SEC freshman of the year during a time when conference baseball was becoming as dominant as football
C) Minor anchored a Team USA pitching staff that also included Kyle Gibson, Mike Leake, and Strasburg. All of them were drafted in the first round of the 2009 draft but when the team faced Cuba for the championship, Minor was the ace who was chosen to start. And he won. Team USA had never beaten Cuba in a championship game prior to that.
D) In the minors, Minor has a career ERA of 3.14 and the aforementioned strikeouts to walks ratio of 3.6, which is staggering. Craig Kimbrel’s was 2.55; Julio Teheran’s is 3.32.
These are all facts, not vague comments about projected ceilings.
People who don’t really follow scouting simply take the word of those who do, never questioning how accurate they are on the subject. People who lose their jobs if they get the wrong guys went after Minor hard at the deadline. That should matter but for whatever reason, it usually doesn’t.
Just Pat
October 31st, 2011
5:10 pm
plethora……I LOVE that word!
TennesseePaul
October 31st, 2011
5:11 pm
So they have 15 million to play with not counting minimum salary players and a slight increase in payroll like Wren said. I’ll buy it….
I notice you refuse to use the averaged costs…
P-Town Brave ©
October 31st, 2011
5:12 pm
Snot-
Maybe you should consult R2D2 for that answer
Shaun
October 31st, 2011
5:16 pm
Just Pat, I agree. The more games in a playoff series, the better. But I’m guessing MLB will add a team before they expand all series to 7 games.
MiaBchBravesFan
October 31st, 2011
5:16 pm
Sorry, richbrave, for the tardy response, had to step away from the desk…
I live in the North Beach section of Miami Beach and I work in Miami Springs.
Gone Viral
October 31st, 2011
5:16 pm
“errible example when referring to players that get drafted in the Rule IV draft. You’re comparing a guy who was destroyed for his lack of desire in college and it, as many predicted, translated to the pros. An absurd statement.”
If you think the MLB Draft doesn’t have its share of questionable players who don’t work very hard after they get paid, we’ve reach a chasm we cannot breach in this conversation. The Van Poppel vs. Chipper side of it, the one you sidestepped completely, is a blueprint example of how much desire determines a player’s performance rather than talent. The Cardinals started winning this year only after they rid themselves of their supremely talented center fielder. Coincidence? Not even a little bit.
“Because we’re not plugged in like Bill Shanks, LOL.”
First of all, labels don’t matter. That’s why they are called labels. I can label you anything I want but that doesn’t make it true. Facts on the other hand matter. Whether a guy is labeled a number one or number five starter is irrelevant. Whether they win the games they pitch, on the other hand, defines them in their careers. Derek Lowe was signed by Atlanta to be our staff ace, after.
With regards to this particular comment, I don’t think people in Georgia understand that Bill Shanks comments don’t mean a lot to those of us who don’t live in Georgia.