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4,024 comments Add your comment
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
1:58 pm
“There is no such thing as a bad one-year contract.”
AJ stretch his just beyond one year. But even still, one year of 2008 AJ at $18.1M… That’s a bad deal.
RC
October 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
AJ stretch his just beyond one year. But even still, one year of 2008 AJ at $18.1M… That’s a bad deal.
No doubt. Although it’s really, really rare to see a guy who can demand $18 M a year settle for a one-year deal.
McFann O O o Get Well Soon, Nolie!!
October 26th, 2011
2:15 pm
Have they set a date for the Silver Sluggers yet? Thanks!
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
Congrats to Kimbrel
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
2:18 pm
Doesn’t look that terrible:
http://www.weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/graph/USMO0787?begHour=13&begDay=299#hhView
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
2:28 pm
I find it hard to believe that he’d change directions entirely and remake his rotation and pitching depth chart on the off-chance he might get a decent low-A prospect.
It isn’t just the low A prospect. You’d like to think the 4th outfielder coming over in the trade would be that extra offensive piece for the outfield. I guess it all depends on how you take his statements. Did you think he meant Carlos Quentin was coming here with Prado moving back to super utility? I did not believe that to be the case. I thought he meant a nice 4th outfielder, who can add depth to the team’s outfield, while allowing it to hurt less when Chipper Jones is on the bench. Perhaps even platooning with Heyward if it comes to that. That’s what I meant before when I brought up a Vazquez type return…..clearly with the 4th outfielder being a better player than the Melkman.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
Clearly, you’d be weakening the starting rotation, which I don’t think Frank Wren would do unless he added another starter. Depth is important to the guy, obviously. And to me, Delgado and Teheran shouldn’t be options for the rotation starting in 2012 unless Tommy Hanson is unable to pitch – I’m just not 100% that Frank feels the same way.
phil
October 26th, 2011
2:55 pm
If Lowe isn’t our number one starter, I’ll pitch a hissy….
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
2:59 pm
How come all these guys who we never heard of show up to back BF 80 all the time?
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
3:01 pm
Did you think he meant Carlos Quentin was coming here with Prado moving back to super utility? I did not believe that to be the case
“With Prado moving…”? No. He actually implied pretty clearly that Prado was the LF next year and will back up 3B. He did say the team needed more production out of right field and will look to address that this off-season… and also that Heyward is not guaranteed a starting job.
Delgado and Teheran shouldn’t be options for the rotation starting in 2012 unless Tommy Hanson is unable to pitch
I believe Frank views it this way. I think he sees Lowe’s spot as up for competition or assignment directly to Minor. The rest of the Big Four are depth and will pitch in place of injuries.
Well, you know what, why don’t I just quote the man. What he said seems to differ so much from what many speculate on here even though it was only about 2-3 weeks ago he said it. Below is the foundation for the opinions I have of what this team will do this off-season.
Wren on Pitching depth and trades: We have a lot of pitching but I think it’s not something that we’re looking to trade from.
Wren on Lowe: I just think it’s a situation where you want to put the best five starters out there, and right now the way we project, I’m not sure Derek would be one of our best five starters. I’ll just leave it at that.
Wren on Prado in Left: I think the likelihood [of Prado staying in LF] (is good). We’re still a couple weeks away from having our real planning meeting where we look exactly what we think the club will look like.
Wren on Heyward in Right: It’s not a given [Heyward's] our right fielder. We’re going to go into the offseason (keeping) in mind that we’ve got to have offensive production from right field. And we didn’t get that this year.
Piedmont Blues
October 26th, 2011
3:07 pm
The problem Wren faces is that four key players are question marks because of injuries: Heyward, Prado, Jurrjens and Hanson. We don’t know how much Heyward’s and Prado’s performance fell off because they never bounced back from their injuries. Was 2010 a fluke or is it what we should expect from either or both?
And we won’t know whether JJ and Hanson will be potential top-of-the-rotation starters because they couldn’t pitch at the end of the season.
It ties Wren’s hands, making me think we’ll see modest rather than aggressive moves this winter. And plenty of crossed fingers (or prayers, if that works for you) inside the front office.
phil
October 26th, 2011
3:09 pm
The fact that FW isn’t positive that D Lowe isn’t one of our starters next year makes me want to wretch violently in a bucket…
The fact that FW will publicly state that he isn’t sure Weyward is our right fielder, and that we didn’t get production from RF this year, makes me feel better….
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
3:09 pm
I think a few here are in denial when it comes to that last quote. Heyward’s 2011 season was terrible. It was the most abysmal sophomore season for an Atlanta Brave starting RF in decades.
I like the kid. I just see no reason in trying to doll up something that awful. Hope he can turn it around going forward.
phil
October 26th, 2011
3:11 pm
Wayward wasn’t injured…he’s a head case, at least for now…
Snotboogie
October 26th, 2011
3:12 pm
How come all these guys who we never heard of show up to back BF 80 all the time?
They always arrive in pairs, dont they? Conversations with themselves are so easy to spot.
jeffrey d
October 26th, 2011
3:12 pm
How come all these guys who we never heard of show up to back BF 80 all the time?
He’s got homies
phil
October 26th, 2011
3:13 pm
I certainly hope so too, as it would make us tough to actually beat…
As it is, with his pathetic contributions, combined with everyone else’s, look what happened….
Not what I expect from the annointed hall of famer….
phil
October 26th, 2011
3:15 pm
A conversation with oneself on a blog, of all things, is truly the depths of sadness and despair….
(Now, who can I be to agree with that pearl!)
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:18 pm
phil – “Wayward wasn’t injured…he’s a head case, at least for now…
Do you know something the rest of us don’t know?
cricket
October 26th, 2011
3:19 pm
A conversation with oneself on a blog, of all things, is truly the depths of sadness and despair….
Only under different monikers. ward always has entertaining conversations with himself here.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:21 pm
Only way some people can get agreement from other posters is “conversations with themselves”…DOB sometimes checks IPs and calls them out.
Venice Jim
October 26th, 2011
3:22 pm
Game tonight cancelled…
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2011
3:22 pm
Funny thing about Heyward. That heat map from 2010 showed plate coverage on all 4 corners with no holes in his swing. That was his scouting report coming up. He had the thumb injury in ‘10 which I could see robbing some of his power, opposing digit and all, but he could still hit.
Then in ‘11 he has a shoulder injury and all of a sudden he has a big hole in his swing. Then you have TP, the former hitting coach saying he had a hole in his swing all along. Odd he did not say something before and he was the only one to notice. I’m not saying TP is lying, I am saying he might have filled in a memory of that hole after it developed.
Venice Jim
October 26th, 2011
3:23 pm
well, I guess postponed more appropriate…
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2011
3:24 pm
Game 6 postponed for weather.
cricket
October 26th, 2011
3:25 pm
Then you have TP, the former hitting coach saying he had a hole in his swing all along. Odd he did not say something before and he was the only one to notice.
TP saw the hole from the beginning and fixed it when he was in charge. But then he was removed from hitting coach job and didn’t want to share his duct tape with the new guy.
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2011
3:26 pm
ColoradoBravesFan: Why would Braves, with stated needs of SS, corner OF and utility INF., go after Grady Sizemore? They have a Gold Glove CF at least for 2012 in Bourn.
Snotboogie
October 26th, 2011
3:26 pm
Game 6 postponed for weather.
Read as: Offseason postponed.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
3:27 pm
TenneseePaul, I apologize in advance and don’t take this the wrong way:
I think a few here are in denial when it comes to that last quote. Heyward’s 2011 season was terrible. It was the most abysmal sophomore season for an Atlanta Brave starting RF in decades.
I like the kid. I just see no reason in trying to doll up something that awful. Hope he can turn it around going forward.
No one is in denial, TenneseePaul. Perhaps maybe Payne, but I’m getting f!cking tired of the bashing continuing whenever the kids name is mentioned here. Bottom line: Are you saying he won’t be the teams starting RF in 2012? You’re inching that way. You say “I’m hoping the kid can turn it around”, yet say that people are in denial about that quote. What do you want? Him to be in RF next year or not? I’m in the Heyward camp and want him to show that 2011 was a fluke. Not to continue to talk about his 2011 and make certain that everyone knows that it was abysmal and should be considered one of the most dissappointing seasons ever in the history of Atlanta Right Fielders. Nope. Not gonna do that to a 22 year old who had a GREAT(fact) season for a 20 year old turning 21 year old. But I guess age NEVER matters when discussing baseball players…..
I think the likelihood [of Prado staying in LF] (is good). We’re still a couple weeks away from having our real planning meeting where we look exactly what we think the club will look like.
Hmmm, him adding that last sentence doesn’t exactly sound like a ringing endorsement. We’ll see what they do. You can say whatever you want about Heyward or Prado – but the Atlanta Braves have FAR MORE invested in Jason Heyward than they do Martin Prado. Far more. And that means something(not to mention Prado sucked this past year too).
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
3:28 pm
Odd he did not say something before and he was the only one to notice.
I don’t find much odd in this. I remember that quote from DOB. I also remember DOB saying it was the first time anyone would go on record. That to me makes me think people said it before, but refused to go on record, so it wasn’t a printable source and therefore wasn’t “out there.”
At any rate, I think just because now people are willing to go on record with the observation does not mean no one previously had such an observation.
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2011
3:32 pm
I also remember DOB saying it was the first time anyone would go on record.
I don’t recall that, but I”ll take you word for it. None of this changes the fact that he could hit pitches anywhere over the plate one year and could not, after a shoulder injury, the next.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
3:32 pm
MLB announced Wednesday afternoon that Game 6 of the World Series between the Rangers and Cardinals has been postponed.
Offseason postponed and Chris Carpenter will be pitching that potential Game 7 – Friday night.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:32 pm
Bat – If Heyward had holes in his swing (before or after injuries), do you think they would talk about it publicly? (as they said during WWII, “loose lips sink ships”). Of course, opposing scouts eventually sniffed it out, pre-existing or not. Holes may not have shown up vs minor league pitching.
David O'Brien
October 26th, 2011
3:34 pm
DOB, your thoughts/opinions on Wren’s job as GM so far? — TnBrian
On balance, I think he’s done a very good job. “Won” more trades than he’s lost; picked up some solid six-year minor league free agents who’ve helped at big-league level past two years; re-signed affordable, solid veterans Ross and Hinske; stuck to plan to not trade elite prospects including Jason Heyward, Freddie Freeman, Craig Kimbrel and Tommy Hanson when countless teams called with trade interest while those guys were in minors; avoided making knee-jerk deadline trades that would’ve cost Braves top pitching prospects and ended up getting Bourn without using any of those young arms, one or two of which can now be used to possibly add a bat and fill future needs….
Those are just the pluses that come to mind off top of my head. There have been some misfires, like the Kawakami signing, which was compounded by not trading him for whatever he could get after the 2010 season, and not getting more for Soriano after he took the Braves up on their arb offer a couple of winters ago. I don’t fault Braves as much as some for the Lowe signing, because the Braves were desperate to get a top-of-rotation pitcher after missing out quite publicly on a few others, including free agent A.J. Burnett and trade for Jake Peavy (not giving up what Padres wanted for Peavy is another plus for Wren).
The Chipper contract extension was a bit too much, but that can’t be judged solely on face value, as if Chipper were just another aging veteran. Much as some folks don’t think it should matter, the rare cases of an iconic player like that nearing end of his career with only team he’s ever been with, are extenuating circumstances. Period. It’s never easy, and the Braves didn’t, in my opinion, handle the Smoltz and Glavine ones very well. With Chipper, it was almost as if they went the other way, making sure they couldn’t be accused of not giving him the respect he’d earned, etc. And let’s not forget, Chipper had huge OPS totals in the years just before the extension, albeit while missing a significant amount of games with injuries.
There are many other moves that can be rated, graded, whatever, but like I said, on balance I think Wren has done a very good job.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
3:34 pm
Why would Braves, with stated needs of SS, corner OF and utility INF., go after Grady Sizemore?
I think he may be considered a corner outfielder at this point in his career after all of the knee surgeries.
Snotboogie
October 26th, 2011
3:38 pm
I think he may be considered a corner outfielder at this point in his career after all of the knee surgeries.
I think he will be ready for a 1 year incentive-laden contract as a 4th OF to help re-establish his value.
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2011
3:39 pm
Holes may not have shown up vs minor league pitching.
raleighbravefan _
I was referring to 2010, big leagues. What I’m saying is: if he could not hit a pitch up and in, in 2011 but could, in 2010, what changed? Shoulder?
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:42 pm
Bat – Seems like shoulder injury, and resulting adjustments are likely culprit.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
3:44 pm
I am saying he might have filled in a memory of that hole after it developed.
I’m familiar with this concept. It’s how I remember my college hitting “prowess” so vividly.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
3:44 pm
Are you saying he won’t be the teams starting RF in 2012? You’re inching that way. You say “I’m hoping the kid can turn it around”, yet say that people are in denial about that quote. What do you want?
lol. So there’s that button which seems to work. No offense taken, Efrim.
To answer your over all question regarding Heyward, I like the kid.
And going from here, I’m not going to turn this into a Baseball Player rhetorical Q&A. So to begin, I have not said Heyward has no chance at being the starter. I’m quoting Wren. Heyward is not guaranteed to be the starter. He may or he may not be. But according to the General Manager, the front office believes the team must have more offense from RF. And that there is no penned in name in RF for 2012. Off-season meetings and moves will determine what the plan is. I tend to believe the team will target an outfielder that can manage the roll full time as well as part time, so I don’t see a Diaz type player as the acquisition target. I see something more than that.
Heyward’s off-season adjustments and ST performance will be the final dictator as to whether he starts, platoons or goes to the minors in 2012.
Atlanta Braves have FAR MORE invested in Jason Heyward than they do Martin Prado. Far more.
Never disagreed with that. I’ve made that point rather frequently. It’s also why I believe if Heyward isn’t starting or platooning next season, he’ll be in the minors. I think this team still views him as a tremendous asset long term and hence will not trade him. But that premise does not guarantee him a starting roll. Or, for that matter, mean that I dislike Heyward. Additionally, everything I’ve spelled out as my understanding of this team lines this team up to have much better depth in the outfield should Heyward right his ship. It’s a win-win for the team.
Heyward’s age does matter. It’s a major reason why I think this team would be willing to send him down if he shows no sign of improvement next Spring. He still has plenty of time to straighten things out and come back up and dominate.
flange1
October 26th, 2011
3:45 pm
Enjoying the discussion today.
My opinion on what FW was saying (as quoted by TennPaul) is that Heyward needs to win a job in 2012 and that as of now Prado has a job in LF, but the Braves need to improve production from the OF.
I would interpret that as meaning he is looking for another OF (who can play LF or RF) that will challenge Heyward and Prado. I think he is looking to add an OF who can increase production.
I think most in Braves country hope and believe that both Prado and Heyward will bounce back from poor seasons and TAKE the jobs in LF and RF. But I think FW wants a backup plan better than Hinske and Diaz.
Piedmont Blues
October 26th, 2011
3:45 pm
DOB, nice assessment of Wren. Wonder how much the denizens would be howling if instead of signing Lowe, FW had signed AJ Burnett or acquired Peavy? (Be careful what you wish for.)
RC
October 26th, 2011
3:47 pm
I think he will be ready for a 1 year incentive-laden contract as a 4th OF to help re-establish his value.
If he’s trying to reestablish value, taking a job as a 4th OF isn’t a great way to go about it. There are plenty of teams that would be willing to give him a shot as a starter, IMO, and he’d be more likely to sign with one of those.
Piedmont Blues
October 26th, 2011
3:47 pm
flange1,
Agreed. Hinkse/Diaz are borderline 4th OF now, at best. Hinske’s a better option as a PH/backup 1B. Diaz, I think, has enjoyed his moment in the sun.
Murph
October 26th, 2011
3:47 pm
I’d rather have Andruw than Sizemore. The last thing the team needs is a guy who’s supposed to be filling in for injured players that’s always injured himself.
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
3:49 pm
If he’s trying to reestablish value, taking a job as a 4th OF isn’t a great way to go about it.
True that. 300 ABs don’t go as far as they used to.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:49 pm
It’s hard to know much Re Prado, Heyward, JJ, and Hanson until Spring Training. I don’t believe any major decisions will be made until that time. Moves can be made then, or up until trade deadline. What’s the rush. Getting it right is more important than getting it quickly.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:51 pm
Piedmont – Even worse, how about Oliver Perez (which is what the Mets ended up with).
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
3:52 pm
Getting it right is more important than getting it quickly.
Wish that was cross-stitched on Wren’s cell phone protector when Soriano was being shopped.
Piedmont Blues
October 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
raleighbravefan,
Ouch! True dat.
Bat Masterson
October 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
I think he is looking to add an OF who can increase production.
I’m not saying Wren is less than genuine or just blowing smoke. I would point out, difference making corner outfields are so easy to come by the Braves traded for Uggla.
CB
October 26th, 2011
3:56 pm
No kidding on the Soriano trade. What an idiotic move.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
3:56 pm
difference making corner outfields are so easy to come by the Braves traded for Uggla.
Yes. Well, for the longest time difference-making corner outfielders were just “too expensive.” I think after watching this last season, the front office sees more value in such players.
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
No kidding on the Soriano trade. What an idiotic move.
That’s a bit harsh. I’d have liked to see us get a better return, but I doubt that we’d have gotten a lot more.
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
I’d have liked to see us get a better return, but I doubt that we’d have gotten a lot more.
That seemed like the prime time to trade for a prospect or two.
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:05 pm
I’d have liked to see us get a better return, but I doubt that we’d have gotten a lot more.
That seemed like the prime time to trade for a prospect or two.
At the time Soriano had just come off a season that raise significant injury questions about him, and his salary was a bit of an unknown due to the arbitration process. While it would have been nice to get a useful piece for him, I don’t know that any team was willing to give up “a prospect or two”.
CB
October 26th, 2011
4:05 pm
RC,ok. How about disappointing?
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:08 pm
CB,
It was definitely disappointing. But given the circumstances, I don’t think we can confidently say there would have definitely been a better offer out there. What was more disappointing was Soriano accepting arbitration, although from his POV I understand the move.
CB
October 26th, 2011
4:11 pm
RC,27 saves with an ERA under 3.00 should be worth more than Chavez
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:11 pm
Also, other teams knew we were in a bit of a bind over Soriano. And, we could not move forward and make any other changes until he was moved, due to salary constraints. What if Wren assumed he could trade Soriano later, and then could not? That puts you several million over budget. It’s rarely as simple as many believe.
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:14 pm
RC,27 saves with an ERA under 3.00 should be worth more than Chavez
Plus a liability to pay some unknown salary between $6-9 million. I agree it should have been worth more. But based on the info we had at the time, it’s unfair to say that a better return was there. We didn’t know Chavez was going to be terrible, and we don’t know what any other team would have offered.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:15 pm
CB – Definitely dissapointing, but Wren didn’t expect him to accept arb, just like JS didn’t expect Maddox to do so. This is one reason they are very cautious about offering arb. I edxpect the compensation rules to change with the new labor agreement.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:16 pm
I think it was borderline idiotic. He could have waited longer, some team might have need help later.
That and KK rate as my two least happy moments in Frank’s reign
Overall I’d give him at least a B, maybe a B+
CB
October 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
Right, because the trade was made so quickly nobody knows what we could have gotten. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
TnBrian
October 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
DOB, THANK YOU for the response. One thing you said stood out was the Chipper extension and how the Smoltz/Glavine, especially Glavine’s, negotiations backfired. To me that was sort of knee jerk signing CJ to that extension, but like you say, other factors did play in that. Obvious him being a Brave icon thing. Again, thanks for the repsonse.
Bravefansince80’s, he did answer my question. Backfire!
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:18 pm
What if Wren assumed he could trade Soriano later, and then could not?
This is known as the “Kenshin Kawakami” situation.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:19 pm
Give Wren SOME credit…he knew what he had, and had more knowledge than any of us what was offered, and what was likely to be offered. Doesn’t mean he made the right move, especially in hindsight, but he did have to make a decision at some point. He is being criticized for moving too quickly on Soriano, and for not moving quick enough (when he had the chance) on KK. Hindsight is almost always right.
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:20 pm
CB,
No doubt that it’s possible there was a better return out there. And I do think Wren probably acted a bit too quickly, based on the information available to me. All I’m saying is that the volume of information NOT available to me is signficant enough that I don’t feel comfortable passing judgement on this one particular move, especially based on the unknowns that raleighbravefan pointed out above.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:22 pm
It was obvious that the financial pressure was so great that he practically gave him away, but they usually talk about there being no pressure to stay withing a given figure.
I think that is kind of insulting to say things that are not really backed up.
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:23 pm
raleighbravefan,
I had forgotten about the Maddux arb situation. Considering how similar that was to the Soriano situation, I wonder if there is some internal policy within the Braves organization that says the team cannot be over buget for more than a certain amount of time. Both of those trades occured quickly enough that they could be labeled “panic trades”, when it seemed the team could have waited longer to make a move.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:23 pm
If Soriano, KK, and Lowe are his biggest blunders, and with the other outstanding moves he has made, I’d say he has been very successful. Those that disagree are mostly ignoring circumstances, and financial realities, in my opinion.
Bay Area Steve
October 26th, 2011
4:24 pm
“the volume of information NOT available to me is signficant enough that I don’t feel comfortable passing judgement” – RALEIGHBRAVEFAN
Uh, I don’t think you’re doing it right. This is blog-commenting, man. Step it up.
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:24 pm
Hindsight is almost always right.
And if it’s not, you aren’t doing it right
Bay Area Steve
October 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
Or, RC. Dammit. Apparently I’m not doing it right either. I may have to learn those damn italics at some point…
CB
October 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
RC,we better all get off the blog if we can’t be critical and give our opinions. At least we are not screaming at each other. LOL
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
Sorry BAS, I forgot. I’ll get back to floating trade ideas that the other team would DEFINTELY go for
We should try to trade Lowe and a relief prospect for Brett Garner. The Yankees will need another starter when CC leaves.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:26 pm
just use an “i” BAS
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:27 pm
CB,
No worries. I actually enjoy our discussion, since we both made our points and aren’t freaking out because the other person doesn’t agree with what’s “obvious”
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
4:27 pm
I don’t know that any team was willing to give up “a prospect or two”.
Yes. It is an unknown and pure speculation. I speculate that had Wren waited more than 35 seconds, he might just have found something better than Jesse friggin Chavez.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:27 pm
BAS – It was RC, but I pretty much agree.
Brave New World
October 26th, 2011
4:29 pm
Wren is doing a vry good job. We went through a stretch of losing seasons, and for the last several years under Wren we have been in playoff contention. ‘Nuff said.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:29 pm
I speculate that had Wren waited more than 35 seconds, he might just have found something better than Jesse friggin Chavez. @TenPaul
me too
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:29 pm
Actually, I feel we are having a very civil and thoughtful conversation this afternoon…in fact remarkably so…at least since the trolls left.
Bay Area Steve
October 26th, 2011
4:30 pm
How does that guy suck so bad?
I know the 95 is straight, but he’s got a decent little hook, a respectable change… I mean the guy was like gasoline on a fire, and he’s got above-average big-league stuff. Oh, the subtleties of pitching…
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:31 pm
off season is so much more fun here on the blog for the most part.
The aggressive ranters drop in so less often
phil
October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
3:18 pm
phil – “Wayward wasn’t injured…he’s a head case, at least for now…
Do you know something the rest of us don’t know?
**************
No. It’s just an opinion which I hope is wrong.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
Must not be gritty enough
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:32 pm
BAS,
No idea what happened with Chavez. I remember after we got him thinking he might turn into a decent relief prospect, since all the tools were there. But you are right, he REALLY sucked….
RC
October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
off season is so much more fun here on the blog for the most part.
The aggressive ranters drop in so less often
So true. Plus we get to speculate on the future, instead of complaining about the present (or defending our favorite players/managers/executives from those that do complain).
ncscoots
October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
Oh, the subtleties of pitching…
“I do not kill with my arm; I kill with my mind.”
So sayeth The Gunslinger, were he a pitcher.
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
So to begin, I have not said Heyward has no chance at being the starter. I’m quoting Wren. Heyward is not guaranteed to be the starter. He may or he may not be. But according to the General Manager, the front office believes the team must have more offense from RF.
Yup, Jason Heyward. You can’t think he’s done – him or Prado, as scoots has argued with some. Those “meetings” in Orlando should come to the conclusion that more offense in RF will be Jason Heyward. I hope they come to the conclusion that more offense in LF will be Martin Prado. If they want to cover their butts, go get another outfielder that’s more than Diaz.
And that there is no penned in name in RF for 2012. Off-season meetings and moves will determine what the plan is. I tend to believe the team will target an outfielder that can manage the roll full time as well as part time, so I don’t see a Diaz type player as the acquisition target. I see something more than that.
I think that’s more lighting a fire under Heyward’s arse. I don’t believe their offseason meetings will lead them to going to acquire a player that is a starting everyday type in a corner. I think it’s a RH 4th outfielder type that is better than Matt Diaz(he shouldn’t even be on the team, imo – the target should of been a bat that had no contract for 2012 – Scott Hairston – and I get they couldn;t get the deal done with the Mets, but Diaz isn’t the Diaz of 2009). Matt Diaz isn’t even a 4th outfielder from what he’s produced in the field and at the plate since the start of the 2010 season: .257/.302/.377, 86 OPS+. As you say, maybe they can handle a full time role, maybe. Like Chris Heisey for instance.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
probably lack of command plays a large part
TennesseePaul
October 26th, 2011
4:34 pm
We didn’t know Chavez was going to be terrible
Please. He didn’t have to be terrible. Simply from the overview before that season, Chavez was not worth Soriano straight up. The fact that he stunk just made it even worse.
No, there is the matter of “playing cards close to the chest.” It’s hard to have leverage when you make it known you can’t afford a guy if he accepts. Blunder number 1. That led to blunder number 2, accepting Chavez straight up for Soriano.
Aybar for Ridgway was bad as well. But that was a minor deal so I can live with it. But, damnit man. There was nothing good about Ridgway and Aybar would have been good on the bench. Actually, he was good on the bench that year for the Rays.
Lesson learned, don’t let Wren make minor deals with the Rays.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:35 pm
phil – Hope you are wrong…time will tell. As an eternal optimist, I like to think he will have a big bounce back, and be a star for years.
BraveFaninBC
October 26th, 2011
4:37 pm
No way they were going to keep Aybar, and most Gms were probably able to figure that out no matter how close cards were played
phil
October 26th, 2011
4:37 pm
Thanks for the FW take, DOB….
phil
October 26th, 2011
4:38 pm
If he and FF could just be better than average, look out…
I’m not an eternal optimist, so I’ll remain doubtful until I SEE Weyward become and remain Heyward….he can do it if he wants to do it…
Efrim
October 26th, 2011
4:39 pm
I thought Jesse Chavez was considered to be a bit more than crud. He just didn’t do a damn thing.
raleighbravefan
October 26th, 2011
4:40 pm
10Paul – You are right about giving too much information…a lesson Wren learned the hard way. That is why it is hard to get any real information out of him now.