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3,788 comments Add your comment
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
4:57 pm
why would we assume that one of them is done? Neither are old enough for it to be age. Regression to the mean is a strong force and shows the probability that both will rebound some.
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
4:59 pm
Hope springs eternal, but I really do not understand where the Braves are going to get the funds to pay for a significant upgrade in the outfield.
MFin04
October 24th, 2011
5:00 pm
“Neither are old enough for it to be age.”
One has never played full-time. The other is young enough for it to be age.
DAP
October 24th, 2011
5:00 pm
MFin04, several free agent SS listed are better than gonzo. of course, gonzo is a free agent too. why are you acting like weve got him under contract?
fact: the braves do not have a MLB Shortstop for 2012.
The whole argument is what position is easiest to make an upgrade at and it seems like LF/RF is.
the easiest position to upgrade is the place where nobody is taking up space at the moment. short stop. add the fact that SS was our absolute worst offensive position last season, and get really easy. and no, the answer isnt LF/RF.
Snotboogie
October 24th, 2011
5:01 pm
Derek Holland’s agent has already clipped and pasted that comment for his player book.
Should be worth half to one million more in arb, right?
raleighbravefan
October 24th, 2011
5:01 pm
MF – OK, let’s play “what if”…What if Heyward and Prado both return to 2010 levels, a distinct possibility? Are you happy with the money you spent for a guy who either now sits on the bench, or forces one of those guys,( playing at a 2010 level) sitting on the bench?
Alternative is to see how they look in Spring training before doing a knee-jerk with a limited budget. I choose that, unless a great opportunity comes along, that fits our budget.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
5:01 pm
Do the Braves have a CF backup in the system? Have they ever had a legit CF backup, one that was on the team as the 4th OF? Not that I can recall.
I’m sure Andruw would be serviceable in CF… LF and RF too. It’s not like he suddenly forgot how to field his position. He might not get to the deep fly in the alley like he used to, but who else other than Bourn would anyways?
Now think forward to when Chipper is out for 3-4 weeks with whatever his injury du jour is… would you rather see:
1. Andruw
2. Diaz
3. Young
4. Constanza
ncscoots
October 24th, 2011
5:02 pm
We can sit and hope they Prado and Heyward bounce back. Or we can acquire a corner outfielder who can hit. Plan on playing Prado or Heyward full-time. And making the other a bench player.
Listen, if the team can find some .900 OF beast, I’m fine with taking 300 PAs away from Prado, or Heyward, or whoever is the lesser player. Otherwise, not so much.
Doing some thing rather than the right thing is never a plan; it’s desperation.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:03 pm
Murph,
I agree that Andruw would be an awesome 4th OF.
I’m still holding out hope for a Lowe-Hunter trade though.
MFin04
October 24th, 2011
5:04 pm
“Are you happy with the money you spent for a guy who either now sits on the bench, or forces one of those guys,( playing at a 2010 level) sitting on the bench?”
Yes you are happy with spending the money, because the guy you get is better than one of or both of Heyward and Prado’s 2010 numbers.
Not to mention that Prado could very well be an important part of the team as a super-sub….which we are going to need anyway since Chipper is only getting older.
MFin04
October 24th, 2011
5:07 pm
“Listen, if the team can find some .900 OF beast, I’m fine with taking 300 PAs away from Prado, or Heyward, or whoever is the lesser player. Otherwise, not so much.”
Yep. Agreed. Even a .850 OF beast works for me.
(Unless we can get a guy like Joe Mather, Loaf Anderson or Melky Cabrera for cheap.)
raleighbravefan
October 24th, 2011
5:07 pm
Where do you get the money for a guy who is better than a 2010 Prado and Heyward? (You also have to replace shortstop, replace guys not resigned, and pay for arb increases).
DAP
October 24th, 2011
5:09 pm
i think a better otpion than gonzalez would be a guy who could easily move over to super utility INF when/if pastornicky is ready. gonzalez has never played anywhere but SS. clint barmes is nearly gonzo’s equal on D at 3 positions and has a better bat. marco scutaro is a vast improvement over gonzo at the plate and can play 3 positions.
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
5:10 pm
2008-2010 Prado was 800+. no reason to assume that he will not bounce back to around that same level.and 850 guy who we have to pay extra for will not be worth the cost most likely
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
5:10 pm
Ahhhhhhh……I’ve been away so long I’d forgotten how much “fun” this could be.
Just don’t understand all the hate of Prado and Heyward. Why not let’s see what the new hitting coach MAY do with both of them before making any knee jerk moves.
MFin04
October 24th, 2011
5:11 pm
“Where do you get the money for a guy who is better than a 2010 Prado and Heyward?”
Here is a novel idea. MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. There is a way to make more money. Kawakami/Lowe/McLouth there is some money. Linebrink/Sherrill there is some money.
Oh and raise payroll $5mil and we have some money.
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
5:11 pm
That makes sense DAP if they can be gotten cheaply enough
We made the 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 24th, 2011
5:13 pm
“You’d rather look good and lose…than look bad and win” (Woody’s quote to Wesley Snipes in “White Men Cant Jump”).
Many on here would rather see the Braves lose with a manager that makes them “feel good” about themselves…than see the Braves win with an “A-Hole” of a manager.
Give me the “A-Hole” who wins. That is what matters most. Seeing the Cardinals in the World Series is pretty sickening…knowing that they wouldnt be there if we didnt choke up a 10 1/2 game lead with one month left in the season.
DOB once said “what has Bobby Valentine ever won”. My response was….WTF HAS FREDO GONZO EVER WON? At least Bobby V. took an inferior Mets team to the 2000 World Series.
Some on here said last night that yelling at players doesnt work. Well, given that we played terrible the past two Septembers (unlike the Cardinals of 2011..the 2010 Padres failed to take advantage of our attempt to give them the Wild Card)…I would have to say that the old “coddling, giving BS excuses, not holding players accountable for their SH!!TY play” mantra that Fredo learned from Bobby Cox……..hasnt exactly worked either.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:13 pm
Ahhhhhhh……I’ve been away so long I’d forgotten how much “fun” this could be. Just don’t understand all the hate of Prado and Heyward. Why not let’s see what the new hitting coach MAY do with both of them before making any knee jerk moves.
Completely agree. The challenge for Wren and Co. is finding a “Plan B” who is both good enough to plug in if needed, but also doesn’t have a problem with being the “Plan B”. Pretty small population of those guys to pull from, especially for the money we’ve got to spend.
Or just say “eff it”, and trade Prado + one of Delgado/Vizcaino/Minor for Matt Kemp. Personally, I like that idea.
CrαZy
October 24th, 2011
5:13 pm
I’m completly for bringing Andruw back. He would be far better than having to see Diaz again!!
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:14 pm
Yep. Agreed. Even a .850 OF beast works for me.
15 outfielders in the majors OPS’d over .850(minimum of 400 plate appearances).
15.
In the entire MLB.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:16 pm
Yep. Agreed. Even a .850 OF beast works for me.
15 outfielders in the majors OPS’d over .850(minimum of 400 plate appearances).
15.
In the entire MLB.
16 if you count Joey Bats as an OF
raleighbravefan
October 24th, 2011
5:16 pm
Make the playoffs provides money for 2013, not 2012. How much relief can we get for Lowe? Drop McLouth (and pay for the buyout), and you have to pay Bourn. Increase the payroll? Why $5M…why not $50M? See how far you get with Liberty Media. I’m trying to be realistic here. IF you can trade Lowe, Then figure the best way to spend the $$$. (would you take him if you were a GM)?
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:17 pm
Or just say “eff it”, and trade Prado + one of Delgado/Vizcaino/Minor for Matt Kemp. Personally, I like that idea.
Even one year of Kemp is costing more than that….
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
5:17 pm
I’d like that too, but I seriously doubt that the Dodgers would
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:18 pm
16 if you count Joey Bats as an OF
I was.
Snotboogie
October 24th, 2011
5:18 pm
Dentzian stench wafting around…
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:18 pm
Yep. Agreed. Even a .850 OF beast works for me.
15 outfielders in the majors OPS’d over .850(minimum of 400 plate appearances).
15.
In the entire MLB.
And only 13 did in 2010. Of course, the #14 hitter was close at .849. His name is Jason Heyward.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:19 pm
Efrim,
Not sure who you missed then (or if I just miscounted).
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:20 pm
I’d like that too, but I seriously doubt that the Dodgers would
I think if the Braves decided that Kemp was the guy we had to have, they’ve got the young arms to get a deal done. Problem is that I don’t think the team (Atlanta) has the cash available to pay his arbitration salary next year. I also don’t think they’d be willing to give up their young pitchers for a “rental”, no matter how good of a fit he would be on the current team.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
5:22 pm
would you take him if you were a GM?
There are some scrub teams that would probably take him to be a “veteran presence” so long as 75% of his salary is paid by the Braves.
There has to be someone out there who could use Lowe in some capacity. Has to be.
You know what the Braves ought to do…. trade him to Japan. That’ll teach him to collapse in September.
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:22 pm
Next year will be a big one for Kemp. If he connects and has a similar year, he will have a good chance if getting 200 million or more. Even if you don’t like him as a CF(he’s terrible there), he’s still going to get a huge contract given that he’ll be 28 on Opening Day 2013. Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies all going to have the payroll space to afford him too.
Scary bidding war like we’ve never seen before.
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
5:23 pm
was it nolie who has made such a point about how the numbers are down to where 800 is pretty respectable and 850 is getting to be beastish?
We made the 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 24th, 2011
5:24 pm
By the way, hearing some on here attribute our choke job of a collapse on injuries is getting old…because many on here fail to remember that all teams deal with injuries. The Cardinals lost Adam Wainwright FOR THE YEAR before the season started. Yet they didnt throw in the towel. The Phillies lost their top three bullpen guys for half the season (Lidge, Contraras and Madsen)…as well as Chase Utley…and still ran away with the division title.
When Matt Holliday was a free agent, I pushed for the Braves to sign him. Yet many on here said that he was overrated. Without Holliday hitting behind Pujols, Pujols would get walked almost as much as Bonds did during his home run bashing days.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:24 pm
Efrim,
Did you count Michael Morse and Alex Gordon as OF?
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:25 pm
RC,
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/seasontype/2/position/of/sort/OPS/order/true/minpa/400
Murph
October 24th, 2011
5:26 pm
Speaking of nolie, has anyone heard from him lately??
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:26 pm
Efrim,
Phillies will have payroll space for Kemp? I thought they were leveraged pretty heavily already?
raleighbravefan
October 24th, 2011
5:27 pm
Murph – Is it worth payin 75% of his salary vs bullpen duty? What if he looks good in Spring Training?
Not arguing, just asking. I kinda think there is some point (for me, around $10M) where i would eat any more.
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:27 pm
was it nolie who has made such a point about how the numbers are down to where 800 is pretty respectable and 850 is getting to be beastish?
Yes, which is why OPS+ is incredibly useful and why it should be used here. An .850 OPS is beast mode here in 2011.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:28 pm
Morse was counted as an OF on the list I was looking at.
Efrim
October 24th, 2011
5:30 pm
Phillies will have payroll space for Kemp? I thought they were leveraged pretty heavily already?
After 2012, they will have a little over 82 million in guaranteed contracts. If they wanted to keep a 165 million dollar payroll, they could afford Matt Kemp. And they could structure it so it’s somewhat backloaded – Utley’s 15 million+ comes off of the books the following year. Even if they extend Hamels, I still think they would be able to sign him.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:30 pm
raleighbravefan,
I agree. Assuming he doesn’t cause a disruption to the team, I’d rather keep Lowe in the bullpen as a solid middle man/emergency starter than pay nearly all of his salary just to get him off the team. His performance still has value, it’s just not as much as you would expect from the younger guys.
raleighbravefan
October 24th, 2011
5:31 pm
The real world problem is to put together the best team possible, starting with the contracts we currently have, and about $90M total to spend…and the other GMs cannot be morons.
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:33 pm
Thought Philly had more money tied up than that, but I’ll admit I haven’t looked in a while. Of course, they will still have to replace the players that are currently making that money, so Kemp might not be a huge upgrade for them (for instance, if they lose Pence and sign Kemp, it’s an upgrade, but not a huge one).
RC
October 24th, 2011
5:33 pm
The real world problem is to put together the best team possible, starting with the contracts we currently have, and about $90M total to spend…and the other GMs cannot be morons.
Well, ALL of them cannot be morons, but there is room for a few.
We made the 2007 Mets look like the 1927 Yankees
October 24th, 2011
5:34 pm
No team is going to trade for Derek Lowe….UNLESS the Braves eat virtually all of his 2012 $15 mil contract. If Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Beachy and Minor all are healthy coming out of Spring Training…..there is a good chance that the Braves will release Lowe before the regular season starts. The talk of Lowe going to the bullpen is a joke. I just dont see Lowe being the 12th man/mop up man on this staff. Other teams in baseball know this.
raleighbravefan
October 24th, 2011
5:34 pm
Wish for more payroll $$$$ in one hand, and shi…..err…spit in the other, and see which fills upfirst.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
5:45 pm
Speaking of adding payroll $$$$… Liberty is now contractually able to sell the Braves if they choose to, correct?
Makes me wonder if they’d increase payroll by $10mil or so to add a semi-marquee name in an effort to attract potential buyers? Seems like they’d have an easier time of things if the Braves had a name to replace Chipper when he leaves.
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
5:46 pm
If Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Beachy and Minor all are healthy coming out of Spring Training…..there is a good chance that the Braves will release Lowe before the regular season starts.
absolutely can not agree
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
5:48 pm
I’m not sure that a player who costs 10 million or less would make much difference in sellability. That would take a real star IMO.
Also seem to be in no hurry to sell from what I’ve been reading
Murph
October 24th, 2011
5:54 pm
BC, it would be $10mil plus Chipper’s money (wouldn’t happen in 2012).
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:00 pm
It’s 6pm in Atlanta… this is when the blog dies… and I’m forced to say awful, horrible things to get the lurkers out of hiding.
Don’t make me do it. Please, for the good of the blog, somebody say something. Don’t leave me here commenting to myself. Nothing good comes of it.
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:01 pm
Murph
Sooooo…..what has your 3 yr. old ben up to while I’ve been gone? (Is that better or worse than the comments you may have been forced to make?:-) )
BraveFaninBC
October 24th, 2011
6:01 pm
Something
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:03 pm
Murph
……..and just so’s ya know, I really don’t agree with you about bringing Andruw back unless he was REALLY cheap and only signed for a year……no more.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:09 pm
JP, the 3 year old has been good. She’s got a cold right now, but has taken to wiping the snot from her nose with the back of her sister’s shirt, so she can’t really complain.
As far as Andruw is concerned, I think he could be had for $1-1.5mil per year. That’s less than Hinske would be making this year, and I personally believe Andruw is a better option.
I could see bringing him in for 2 years at that price. If he sucks, the team isn’t broke and didn’t move any prospects to get him. If he does well, then he’d be a bargain.
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:12 pm
Murph
Agree with you…….especially about not losing prospects. *sigh* I just saw him go into a decline and not even seem to CARE……guess that’s what bothers me about him.
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:14 pm
Of course…..some on here would say that Heyward and Prado didn’t look like they cared, either…..but I didn’t get that “vibe” from them.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:15 pm
JP, I totally get where you and the other non-Andruw fans are coming from… but he’s been improving ever since his horrible year in LA, showing decent power and even a little bit of plate discipline now and then.
Last time I saw him on TV he even looked like he was in shape.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:20 pm
Last year Andruw hit .349 with RISP… granted in 2010 he hit .277 with RISP, but even that is an improvement over several current Braves (I think… I didn’t look it up).
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:21 pm
Ahhh, Murph….that’s where you’re head and shoulders above me. You really WATCH other teams play. I may have the game ON, but only look up from my book if something exciting happens. People around here say something about me being a baseball fan and I correct them and say……no, I’m a BRAVES fan.
Kat
October 24th, 2011
6:22 pm
David and DOB bloggers alike…can we have a collective “gag me”? What could it possibly be made of?
The McRib makes a McComeback
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/The-McRib-makes-a-apf-3131095863.html?x=0&.v=3
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:24 pm
Kat
I’m sorry but that’s one of the two things I’ll order at McD’s (the other being the breakfast burrito).
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:25 pm
McRib… so tasty! It could be made out of people for all I care, so long as it still tastes good you can count me in.
Kat
October 24th, 2011
6:26 pm
Just Pat..
Oh no… I feel sorry for your digestive system
But maybe you can tell me… what is it made of… pork really?
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:27 pm
Kat
No, it doesn’t qualify as “good BBQ”, of course, BUT……any idea what those pressed burgers are made out of, either?
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:27 pm
Sirius Radio just added a station that is 24/7 George Carlin!!!
Howard Stern or George Carlin? Stern? Carlin? Hmmmmm….
Kat
October 24th, 2011
6:28 pm
Murph ..
You too? Is there any bbq sense on this blog?! haha.
Kat
October 24th, 2011
6:29 pm
Just Pat..
Oh I know (or don’t know) those burgers are made of something.. but I can’t imagine then what ‘pork’ actually is.
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:31 pm
Kat, I don’t really consider the McRib to be bbq. It’s a meat substance with a tasty, tangy sauce on it that’s shaped to look like a rack of ribs but is without those pesky bones. It’s a food engineering masterpiece!
If they could make a piece of fried chicken that was in the shape of a drumstick but didn’t have the bone in it I’d buy that too.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2011
6:34 pm
If they could make a piece of fried chicken that was in the shape of a drumstick but didn’t have the bone in it I’d buy that too.
What about boneless wings? Or is it the shape that does it for you?
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:36 pm
it’s gotta look like a drumstick. That way the brain thinks it scored a drumstick even though it’s just chicken paste pressed into a drumstick mold, squeezed at a very high temp/pressure to keep it’s shape, dipped into a sticky goo, and then breaded and fried.
So long as the brain thinks it got a drumstick, all will be well.
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:37 pm
Kat
I don’t EAT McRibs for a BBQ “experience”. I eat them INSTEAD of the pressed burgers.
.
Kat
October 24th, 2011
6:37 pm
Murph @ 6:31 .. “It’s a meat substance with a tasty, tangy sauce on it that’s shaped to look like a rack of ribs”
You have me laughing out loud!
Just Pat
October 24th, 2011
6:38 pm
AND…..for a REAL taste sensation…..try one of their $1 menu “chicken” sandwiches sometime!
McFann O O o
October 24th, 2011
6:39 pm
Murph it’s just chicken paste pressed into a drumstick mold, squeezed at a very high temp/pressure to keep it’s shape, dipped into a sticky goo, and then breaded and fried.
We were uh…s’posed to have chicken for dinner…
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2011
6:40 pm
They’re building this whole shopping center less than a mile from my house that started with a Kroger earlier this year. They’d been working on this building, and I figured it’d be a bank or something until one day, you see “Ear Mor Chikin” spraypainted on the side. I thought it was so neat that that’s how they decided to tell everyone it was going to be a Chick-Fil-A
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2011
6:42 pm
sigh…..
EAT Mor Chikin, not Ear….
McFann O O o
October 24th, 2011
6:45 pm
jeffrey d you see “Ear Mor Chikin” spraypainted on the side.
That’s cute!
The Cow thing is one gimmick that doesn’t seem to get old…unless a-course there’s a giant one at your Baseball Park…
Murph
October 24th, 2011
6:45 pm
Chicken paste sounds gross, but when you stop and think about where regular store-bought chicken comes from, it’s not all that bad. At least the meat from McDonald’s is so processed that chances of getting some sort of nasty chicken disease are pretty slim.
jeffrey d
October 24th, 2011
6:47 pm
Of course, it was probably vandals that spraypainted that and it’s actually going to be a Brussel Sprout Emporium
McFann O O o
October 24th, 2011
6:49 pm
jeffrey d—
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October 24th, 2011
6:50 pm
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