Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
3,788 comments Add your comment
Bat Masterson
October 20th, 2011
9:46 am
It would not hurt my feelings the see MLB teams act like they have a little sense when it comes to signing Reyes, Rollins, Prince, and Albert, but I doubt they will. I doubt they will, but I’d bet the house the Braves are not players.
Bat Masterson
October 20th, 2011
9:50 am
Just to be clear I doubt they will
More coffee please……………….
DAP
October 20th, 2011
9:50 am
lew He’ll be back – if for no other reason than they have no money, need a shortstop and would really have to acquire not only a better left fielder, but a third base replacement at least as good as Martin.
what i meant was, he will be back to the old prado, OPSing around .800 next year. but all that stuff is also true.
richbrave
October 20th, 2011
9:52 am
PRADO returns and redeems himself.
richbrave
October 20th, 2011
9:53 am
CHIPPER is what he is, an effective part-time player.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
9:53 am
DAP- I agree with that wholeheartedly – that and Mac will be back to normal. My major concern is the health of Jurrjens and Hanson.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
9:53 am
Gary O… true enough at 9:02 am.
richbrave
October 20th, 2011
9:55 am
LOWE on the other hand, is not effective, and gives all the appearance going forward of being so only in spots and parts of game starts.
richbrave
October 20th, 2011
9:56 am
I for one want to see what HEYWARD brings to the table in 2012. Another fizzle, and his future is toast as a BRAVE I think.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:00 am
Chipper’s a 90-100 game player, given his knees, I’ll wager. Prado becomes more valuable because he could cover the 60-70 games Chipper misses (f my guess is correct).
Oh, and I don’t think Wren is bluffing about Heyward. It’s time for Heyward to produce. It should be interesting watching Heyward in spring training; I don’t think the big guy has as wide margin to under-perform.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:01 am
Lowe… if the Braves could get a few million in budget relief for Lowe that would be a win.
richbrave
October 20th, 2011
10:04 am
So for better or worse, we go witn A-GON at SS with help from PASTORNICKY/WILSON depending on ST, PRADO in LF/3B, JONES at 3B sometimes, LOWE soiling 9 of 10 starts, JJ and HANSON question marks at best, BEACHY and KIMBREL growing into their roles, MEDS and C-MART solidifying long relief or spot-starts, MOYLAN probably gone, hoping UGGLA doesn’t pull a repeat of 2011 at the plate, FF avoiding the soph jinx, and MICHAEL BOURNE being a great lead-off with a nice extension of contract along the way.
Random
October 20th, 2011
10:04 am
TnBrian (October 19th, 2011 11:00 am): “It is only baseball, a pretty damn simple concept in my book.”
After three years, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that, in your book, ALL concepts are “pretty damn simple”.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:08 am
richbrave, something like that, though I’m holding out hope that Wren can dump Lowe and save some cash.
I agree with Lew that Jurrjens’ and Hanson’s health are keys.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:11 am
richbrave – You think that they’ll bring Wilson back?
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:13 am
I bet they could trade Lowe and $10 mil of his salary to KC for Francoeur’s turkey boxers.
TnBrian
October 20th, 2011
10:13 am
Radom, like you really know me. You know me as an anonymous blogger. But you, on the other had, make it very clear you have nothig better to do than scour around this blog quoting other anonymous bloggers and bashing them like you know everything. Freakin dork!
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:13 am
Jason Motte has given up 1 hit and walked 0 batters in 9 innings pitching this postseason.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:13 am
And maybe a bat licked by Melky.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:14 am
The turkey boxers – sold!
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:15 am
Freaking Dork definitely beats snooty.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:16 am
Think about where the Cardinals were that Saturday morning with 5 games left in the season. 3 games back with 5 games to play and coming off a mini collapse of their own vs. the Mets that Thursday evening. 83 win team to a World Series title in 2006 and now this year. Simply incredible, and makes me want to punch a hole in the wall here in my office.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
10:19 am
I agree with Lew that Jurrjens’ and Hanson’s health are keys.
If that’s the case, then I am getting a sinking feeling that we’re screwed. Well, not really screwed, because Hanson and JJ going down just pushes Teheran and Delgado into the rotation… but i’d rather have that be a substitution of choice than one of necessity.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:19 am
Efrim – Opportunism at it’s best.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:21 am
2012… the left side of the Braves infield: Chipper, 40, bad knees; Gonzo, 35 (a step slower?) and/or Wilson, 34, I believe, and a lighter bat than Gonzo.
Add: Jurrjens’ and Hanson’s health concerns and… Never mind. We all know the concerns!
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:22 am
Murph – I’m concerned about their health, but not so sure it’s a key to the season. I’d rather not have to have Teheran or Delgado in the rotation to start the year, but it’s great that they’re ready to step in if necessary.
That being said – I think Delgado is ready for prime time and Julio is close. Like to see Vizcaino hit AAA as a starter and build up his innings pitched.
raleighbravefan
October 20th, 2011
10:22 am
I believe both Prado and McCann will come back healthy, and have excellent years. I believe Heyward will be better, and maybe a lot better. Chipper will be Chipper as long as his body allows it. I’m fine with Gonzo for another year, if that happens.
I agree with Lew that most important factor will be health of JJ and Hanson.
raleighbravefan
October 20th, 2011
10:24 am
Lew – Good points about the kids. Delgado is obviously ready.
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:24 am
Murph… right now, Hanson and Jurrjens are 2/5s the Braves’ rotation. I’m as high on the younger pitchers as is anyone, but Hanson’s and Jurrjens’ talent and experience go a long way. So, yes, I’ve got to think that if those guys stay healthy and produce as expected it matters a lot to the Braves’ fortunes next season.
Bat Masterson
October 20th, 2011
10:25 am
Oh, and I don’t think Wren is bluffing about Heyward. It’s time for Heyward to produce.
Maybe not, but he’s holding nothing but jokers and they’re not wild.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:25 am
Something I haven’t seen mentioned – Eric O’Flaherty ended the season with a sub 1.00 ERA. The only other pitcher in recent history I remember doing so was Chris Hammond with the Braves a few years back. Anyone know of another pitcher doing this since the beginning of the steroid era?
Jeff R
October 20th, 2011
10:27 am
Teheran or Delgado are still kids. I’d rather they be eased into the rotation than push them to replace front-of-the-rotation pitchers like Jurrjens and Hanson.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
10:27 am
Lew, what was your opinion of Teheran this season?
I personally wasn’t very impressed. He pitches all seemed… flat. Not much movement.
When I compare Teheran to Delgado they just look like pitchers at very different stages of their careers. Delgado looks like he could step into any situation and succeed, where Teheran looked like a guy who let the situation get the best of him.
I’ve never seen Teheran pitch in the minors, so I don’t know what he looks like when he’s dominating… he just looked to me like he’s still a couple years away.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:28 am
Got to agree with Bat – Not so sure Wren is able to get someone who can fill in in LF when Martin needs to play third AND a better option for Heyward in RF. Right now it would mean either Diaz or Constanza. I can already envision the moaning, groaning and Shauning.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:34 am
Murph – Honestly, I was a little disappointed in Julio’s performance this year (In Atlanta – not the minors). Four HRs and 8BB in 19.2 IP is a bit much. However, seems to me to be a case of lack of command – something a couple months in AAA paying strict attention to developing a hellacious breaking ball for use as an out pitch and working on commanding the fastball to work off of should help.
He’s got the talent and he’s close – just needs to tweak things somewhat.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:36 am
But…….If we need to replace starters, I feel very good about Minor and Delgado. In addition, we have Medlen back and Cristhian Martinez proved he an go at least six IP and was a lot better than many give him credit for this year. We’re solid.
TennesseePaul
October 20th, 2011
10:37 am
It should be interesting watching Heyward in spring training; I don’t think the big guy has as wide margin to under-perform.
It will be interesting. I think Wren will make a move for a right handed outfielder capable of full time play or platoon. And then I think they’ll watch Heyward to see if there is any improvement in his mechanics. He can win the full time roll, slouch to a platoon or be demoted to keep working in a less stressful environment.
Personally I’m hoping for both a real solid right handed outfield option being picked up and a fully functional Heyward. That would make for a potentially strong outfield for the first time in a long time.
If previous statements about Braves payroll calculations are accurate, the team had a payroll of around $96M this past season and is sitting at a payroll of about $81M before arbitration. So they have some wiggle room in there to get an outfielder.
raleighbravefan
October 20th, 2011
10:37 am
“Shauning”
Gary O
October 20th, 2011
10:40 am
Efrim,
I think the Yankees will give CJ Wilson 5 years, $80 mil, and he wouldn’t have to worry about being a #1 (since CC is the Ace).
Random
October 20th, 2011
10:40 am
I like this kid:
Leigh (October 19th, 2011 6:27 pm): To all you guys that are non-stop doubting Heyward I want you to go bang up your shoulder to where it hurts when you swing the bat and tell me it doesn’t effect your swing and your timing. The bottom line is despite Wren and Fredi saying that Heywards shoulder was not a problem, it obvious that it was/is. Read the following excerpt from one of DOB’s blogs a couple weeks ago:
————————————————–
In the final week of the season, Heyward was asked about his offseason plans.
“First, heal,” he said. “Figure out if there’s anything else I can do to get healthy. Then just go to work. I feel like I’ll most definitely put more time in in the cage. Not that I ever slacked off at any point, it’s just that when you have injuries and get away from your confidence level, you’ve got to work twice as hard to get it back. So most definitely do that.
“Other than that, working out and staying in shape has never been a problem. I’ve always had a good work ethic. But as far as the cage goes, just get after it, take my time and pay a lot of attention to detail.”
Heal? Did that mean something still felt wrong with the shoulder?
“I don’t know if it’s back-related, neck-related or whatever,” Heyward said. “I just feel like, get to the bottom of whatever it is. I mean, because I don’t feel like it’s better, as far as 100 percent. It still nags me. I just want to get to the root of the problem. Just take the time, because it’s my career and I owe it to myself to most definitely get that checked. I just want to know, is there anything I can do to feel better?”
—————————————–
Now does that sound like someone who is healthy to you? Come on, he says that the first thing he needs to do is heal and figure out if there is anything he can do to get healthy. Now why would that be his priority if he was healthy and unaffected by his shoulder?
If you remember, when he went on the DL he originally said he wasn’t going to swing a bat until he was pain-free. Thats when Chipper called him out and stated that an unhealthy Heyward in the line-up was better than no Heyward. So he sucked it up(figuratively and literally) and tried to find a way to play in pain and still play good ball. Now that the season is over, Heyward is being candid and admitting that his shoulder is not right; which is why he had an MRI.
Hopefully Heywards shoulder will heal with rest during the offseason and is not something that eventually is going to require surgery. Once he heals, I think you will see the Heyward that we are all expecting.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:42 am
It will be interesting. I think Wren will make a move for a right handed outfielder capable of full time play or platoon.
Scott Hairston.
CB
October 20th, 2011
10:42 am
Realistically,I think our best hope is a really strong utility player either thru free agency or trade. Those who are dreaming of much more are doing just that – dreaming.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
10:43 am
Do you guys think Minor is told that the 5th spot in the rotation is his to lose or do they go into ST with Minor and Delgado battling it out?
Assuming guys are healthy I wouldn’t mind starting the year with:
1. Hudson
2. Beachy
3. Hanson
4. JJ
5. Minor
But I can see us ending with a rotation that looks more like:
1. Hudson
2. Beachy
3. Minor
4. Medlen
5. Delgado
I still don’t have the confidence in Minor to say he’s the solution… he did a lot to impress me this year, but he still worries me.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:43 am
Whoops. Missed that “capable of full time play” comment. Yeah, probably need to shoot higher than Scott as he is pretty useless vs. RHP.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
10:44 am
I like Random:
I like this kid:
Leigh (October 19th, 2011 6:27 pm): To all you guys that are non-stop doubting Heyward I want you to go bang up your shoulder to where it hurts when you swing the bat and tell me it doesn’t effect your swing and your timing. The bottom line is despite Wren and Fredi saying that Heywards shoulder was not a problem, it obvious that it was/is. Read the following excerpt from one of DOB’s blogs a couple weeks ago:
————————————————–
In the final week of the season, Heyward was asked about his offseason plans.
“First, heal,” he said. “Figure out if there’s anything else I can do to get healthy. Then just go to work. I feel like I’ll most definitely put more time in in the cage. Not that I ever slacked off at any point, it’s just that when you have injuries and get away from your confidence level, you’ve got to work twice as hard to get it back. So most definitely do that.
“Other than that, working out and staying in shape has never been a problem. I’ve always had a good work ethic. But as far as the cage goes, just get after it, take my time and pay a lot of attention to detail.”
Heal? Did that mean something still felt wrong with the shoulder?
“I don’t know if it’s back-related, neck-related or whatever,” Heyward said. “I just feel like, get to the bottom of whatever it is. I mean, because I don’t feel like it’s better, as far as 100 percent. It still nags me. I just want to get to the root of the problem. Just take the time, because it’s my career and I owe it to myself to most definitely get that checked. I just want to know, is there anything I can do to feel better?”
—————————————–
Now does that sound like someone who is healthy to you? Come on, he says that the first thing he needs to do is heal and figure out if there is anything he can do to get healthy. Now why would that be his priority if he was healthy and unaffected by his shoulder?
If you remember, when he went on the DL he originally said he wasn’t going to swing a bat until he was pain-free. Thats when Chipper called him out and stated that an unhealthy Heyward in the line-up was better than no Heyward. So he sucked it up(figuratively and literally) and tried to find a way to play in pain and still play good ball. Now that the season is over, Heyward is being candid and admitting that his shoulder is not right; which is why he had an MRI.
Hopefully Heywards shoulder will heal with rest during the offseason and is not something that eventually is going to require surgery. Once he heals, I think you will see the Heyward that we are all expecting.
Shaun
October 20th, 2011
10:45 am
The same should have applied to Heyward and didn’t. Because the Braves apparently weren’t concerned with whether he was the best option to help them win. They were more concerned with whether he was living up to hype, disappointing, or whatever. — Shaun
Utterly absurd. You lose more credibility with each sentence you write about your Heyward obsession.
It’s an obsession with the Braves giving themselves the best chance to win, that’s all. It’s easy to type things like “utterly absurd” and “you lose more credibility,” etc. and essentially attack me. But that doesn’t address the issues I’m raising. And, by the way, I’m not the only one who has raised these issues. I would suggest being more specific about what is “utterly absurd” about that statement.
It’s pretty simple. The Braves had quite a few position players that didn’t live up to expectations and performed poorly this past season. So either the Braves have different standards for certain players, are misguided in their evaluation of players or it was some sort of off-field issue with Heyward. If it was an off-field issue, why wasn’t he sent down? If it was one of the former two reasons, I’m concerned about the front office and management.
I wish we could have a discussion about this because it is one of the major issues of the 2011 season and perhaps the biggest issue of the 2011-12 off-season but it immediately turns to “you’re just a fanboy” or other personal attacks addressing me or a defense of the organization and a refusal to address the legitimate issues I’m bringing up. I really do understand there may be some “fanboys” out there, or whatever you call them. But clearly I’m not. Those types are the ones who say irrational things like, “Heyward’s going to come back next year and show all you up,” typically in broken, unrecognizable English. I’m actually bringing up valid points and doing my best to back them up with reason and evidence, yet my points and arguments get brushed aside and instead I get addressed in a very personal way, and in a way that usually includes name-calling or an attack.
Gary O
October 20th, 2011
10:45 am
Given the Braves budget limitations, can Wren find a backup outfielder who can play RF if Heyward struggles, and also fill in at LF for Prado when Prado plays 40 games at 3B filling in for Chipper?
As for Shortstop, if we bring Gonzo back, we need a legit backup there too, because at his age, he needs the rest sometimes.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:45 am
If previous statements about Braves payroll calculations are accurate, the team had a payroll of around $96M this past season and is sitting at a payroll of about $81M before arbitration. So they have some wiggle room in there to get an outfielder.
Yeah, but when you add arbitration, you’re talking an addition of at least 12 million so you’d have real little wiggle room.
Travis
October 20th, 2011
10:46 am
Interesting article I read yesterday about Mark McGwire and his prowess as a hitting coach. You hear so often that these guys don’t matter because players should know how to hit by the time they reach the bigs. He seems more of an approch kinda guy. Go to the plate with a game plan and look for your pitch that meets the situation on the field rather than looking for something in Your wheelhouse. OBP and all the other important stats for the Cards this year are impressive. looks like some credit is being given to a hitting coach that does make a difference. Nearly every hit last night for St Louis was down the right field line becasue that is what Wilson was giving them. Love thaat approach. Wish the Braves had it. Kelly Johnson said when he was here their was no approach.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:52 am
I think that unless Wren can make a multi year deal with someone with 2012 being lower and the rest of the year’s escalating in salary as more is available, that what we end up with in the outfield is a part time player somewhat better than Constanza, Diaz or Wilkin Ramirez.
That’s why I agree with Bat about Wren’s options being limited in regards to his threat to demote/platoon Heyward. Just not going to be appreciably better options without a creative contract or another Bourn like trade for someone better.
However, I wouldn’t count Wren out of the game in that regard, either.
abwright
October 20th, 2011
10:54 am
I see some bandwidth on Jurrjens’s and Hanson’s health.
I wouldn’t be super-worried about JJ. The end of last year seemed to be complications resulting from the previous year’s surgery. Unless there is a degenerative thing going on, I’m sure his knee will be healthy in 2012.
Hopefully Hanson is healing. But, I would be a little more concerned that he’s heading for surgery. Something which puts a pitcher out for 1/2 year that only needs rest to heal? Not sure I buy that.
A rotation to start 2012 of Hudson, Hanson, JJ, Beachy, Delgado/Minor/Medlen looks pretty formidable. Especially with Teheran and maybe Vizcaino waiting in the wings. Even with Lowe and Martinez in the bullpen as security.
A rotation to start 2012 of Hudson, Hanson/JJ, Beachy, Delgado, Minor/Medlen doesn’t look too bad either.
If both Hanson and JJ go down for 2012, the pitching looks a little thin. But, fix the offense and it doesn’t look that bad.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:54 am
Gary O – Even if they get another Shortstop besides Gonzo they’ll still need a decent backup at short. Of course, didn’t they manage to keep Diory Hernandez and Brandon Hicks?
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:54 am
I am viewing payroll as the Braves have very little flexibility.
Lowe -15m
Jones – 14m
Uggla – 13.2m
McCann – 10.5m
Hudson – 9m
Bourn – 7.1m(mlbtr est.)
Jurrjens – 5.1m(mlbtr est.)
Prado – 4.4m(mlbtr est.)
O’Flaherty – 2.4m(mlbtr est.)
Diaz – 2m
Ross – 1.625m
Hinske – 1.5m
12 players – 85.825 million
13 players at an average of 450K – 5.85 million
Total – 91.675 million
Couch Tater
October 20th, 2011
10:54 am
“Shauning”
I saw The Shauning at the theatre. I thought the performance by Jack Nicholson was great, but Shelly Duvall was redrum..Redrum…REDRUM..
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:55 am
Travis – Not so sure that it was Kelly who had no approach.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:55 am
Excuse me – Wasn’t Kelly. Dude was inconsistency personified.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
10:56 am
Eh, you’re probably right and they do have like 5 million of wiggle room after arbitration and minimum salary players. I’d bet the payroll sits at around 95 million for 2012.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
10:56 am
Lord help us – Shaun in the hands of Stephen King.
Bat Masterson
October 20th, 2011
10:57 am
But clearly I’m not. Those types are the ones who say irrational things like, “Heyward’s going to come back next year and show all you up,” typically in broken, unrecognizable English. I’m actually bringing up valid points and doing my best to back them up with reason and evidence, yet my points and arguments get brushed aside and instead I get addressed in a very personal way, and in a way that usually includes name-calling or an attack. Shaun
Ah spare us all the angst, Shaun., and don’t complain about name calling while doing the same thing. You brush aside, ignore, or discount any arguments that don’t support your premise. You completely disregard any gray area, anything that cannot be measured.
u a nut
raleighbravefan
October 20th, 2011
10:57 am
Shaun – I have no doubt whatsoever that the braves did exactly what they thought gave them the “best option to help them win” at all times. Their opinion and yours differ. It’s still on opinion, and involves more than just even the most sophisticated metrics (for example, they obviously knew a lot more about Heyward’s physical condition than you do). Many things intered into the decisions. You choose to believe your opinion is the only valid opinion, and is infallible. This is why DOB, and most of the rest of us, agree that you have very little credibility left with this, as well as many other opinions you seem to hold so dearly.
abwright
October 20th, 2011
10:59 am
After Prado, Heyward, McLouth, and Schafer struggled in 2012, I think Wren would be a fool to hope for the best and fix it by the trade deadline.
His second priority, after signing a shortstop, should be to sign a corner outfield option. If Prado, Heyward, Bourn, and PTBNL all perform, you can trade one of them (presumably PTBNL) early in the season to get some salary relief.
It seems like the Braves lately have had a boat-load of fourth outfielders / backup outfielders on the roster. Why not just sign one good player instead of five mediocre players to fill one position?
abwright
October 20th, 2011
11:00 am
The good news for 2012 … no McLouth or Mather sightings.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
11:02 am
Efrim, that just further illustrates why trading Lowe and eating $10-12mil to do so is a good move. The $3mil saved may not sound like much, but it might be enough to pay for an extra OF bat or a bullpen arm.
I know Lowe sucked, but I have a very hard time believing that there isn’t a team out there that is willing to pay $3-4mil for a guy who is going to pitch 190+ innings.
jeffrey d
October 20th, 2011
11:05 am
Does anybody know how much money Liberty is making from owning the Braves? I’m not going to make them the easy scapegoat that some do because $90ish million with iffy attendance isn’t anything to complain about. I just have no idea how much money a MLB team will generate for an owner.
IABrave
October 20th, 2011
11:06 am
So what are you guys going to do with the bullpen, just add from within? They need 1 to 2 solid relievers to take the pressure off of the Big Three. I think Medlen will help a lot but we still need one more for sure.
raleighbravefan
October 20th, 2011
11:06 am
Murph – Agree on Lowe, but at some point you may be better off to put him in the bullpen, depending on how much you have to pay anyway.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
11:07 am
What do you guys think about Cody Ross? He doesn’t seem to be all that great at first glance, but I’ve read a lot about him and it seems like he is the type of guy the Braves could use… real hard worker, decent player, good clubhouse guy, etc.
Couch Tater
October 20th, 2011
11:08 am
Lew –
Ever notice that Scatman Crothers died in 1986 and Jason Heyward born 3 years later has the middle name is Alias. It ain’t no coinkydink.
TennesseePaul
October 20th, 2011
11:09 am
you’re talking an addition of at least 12 million
You are rather generous in your arbitration assignments. I don’t think it will be that much. I think at most with arb and min-increases they are sitting at around $8M in flexibility.
I am viewing payroll as the Braves have very little flexibility.
Yes, I know. We all do because every year they talk about having room, upping payroll and then follow that talk by picking up the likes of Mather and Linebrink.
If they truly did average salaries like they proclaimed during the Hampton era, then they’ll have $8M or more in room to improve.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
11:10 am
raleigh, yeah, I guess it depends on how much confidence the Braves have in Lowe to contribute in the pen.
Personally I think he’s done. It’s like he knew what he was doing wrong but didn’t have the physical ability to fix it… I don’t think he has the arm anymore to be able to compete, bullpen or rotation.
If the Braves think the same way then they’d be better of trading him and paying a huge chunk of his contract than putting him out there a couple times a week.
raleighbravefan
October 20th, 2011
11:12 am
jeffrey d – Agreed. There are a lot of teams that don’t have a payroll of $90Mish, (corporate OR individual ownership), and most organizations are not as well run, and do not use their resources as well as Braves. We were spoiled by Ted Turner, plain and simple. I don’t blame Liberty Media for not wanting to lose money. Better attendance, and post season play would be helpful, on the revenue side.
DAP
October 20th, 2011
11:15 am
lew, oflarety is somewhat overlooked when talking about the big 3, but is he a stud or what? we got that guy off of the mariner’s scrap heap, and he has been excellent for the braves.
random, i hadnt read that quote from heyward that leigh posted. thats interesting. remember early in the seaosn when we heard about heyward having back problems because of his side? the guy is 22 and could be having growing pains, seriously. it makes sense that he needs time to figure out how to keep his body feeling good.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
11:17 am
You are rather generous in your arbitration assignments.
You think Prado, EOF, Jurrjens and Bourn will be less than 19 million? I’ll sign for all of those numbers now. I’m worried about Jurrjens number being higher than 5.1 million.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
11:18 am
oflarety is somewhat overlooked when talking about the big 3, but is he a stud or what? we got that guy off of the mariner’s scrap heap, and he has been excellent for the braves.
If the bullpen has another strong year, I’d trade EOF next offseason. His arb. number will climb over 3 million and I think that’s too much for a 7th inning guy. However, it all depends on if we have the internal candidates to replace him.
Murph
October 20th, 2011
11:18 am
How much of a team’s revenue comes from butts in the seats and how much comes from merchandising, television, licensing, etc?
Say the Braves attendance goes up 3-4%, which doesn’t sound like a lot but is a pretty significant number of people… how much does that come out to? And of that sum, how much actually gets put back into the club in terms of payroll?
I’d guess not a whole lot.
Bat Masterson
October 20th, 2011
11:23 am
Does anybody know how much money Liberty is making from owning the Braves?
Beats me, but I’m sure they are doing just fine. Off the top of my head, the whole point was a stock swap for assets and cash, tax free. The Braves were valued at what, 450MM, for a tax break of what, 140MM, maybe. Of course it’s all a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
They are spinning off the Braves and other holdings into a new tracking stock ……….. Splitco
Maybe they will provide specifics about the Braves P&L after, but I doubt it.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
11:26 am
Sounds like Theo is going to be club president and Padres GM Jed Hoyer will be the new GM of the Cubbies.
DAP
October 20th, 2011
11:26 am
IABrave So what are you guys going to do with the bullpen, just add from within? They need 1 to 2 solid relievers to take the pressure off of the Big Three
kimbrel, venters, o’flarety, varvaro, martinez, medlen is a pretty good start.
relievers are bountiful. they really are. there are tons of pitchers out there that can be the 7th man in the ‘pen. many of them arent much better than what the braves could do in house. since we have such a solid group already, im not too worried about it.
DAP
October 20th, 2011
11:29 am
murph What do you guys think about Cody Ross?
first, ill say if they braves had been able to acquire him in 2010, the course of the team would have been very different. marlins/giants really screwed us there.
i like cody ross and think he is a fine option, if he can still play center field reasonably well (because thats alot of his value).
DAP
October 20th, 2011
11:29 am
efrim If the bullpen has another strong year, I’d trade EOF next offseason. His arb. number will climb over 3 million and I think that’s too much for a 7th inning guy.
but hes not just a 7th innings guys. hes a bullpen ace. id keep him as long as we can.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
11:44 am
but hes not just a 7th innings guys. hes a bullpen ace. id keep him as long as we can.
I know you would, you love those pen arms. I like em too, just not the expensive ones. Not for a mid-market payroll team.
Efrim
October 20th, 2011
11:46 am
Cody Ross is probably going to get more than the Braves would be willing to spend and perhaps the guarantee of an everyday job.
DAP
October 20th, 2011
11:57 am
efrim, Cody Ross is probably going to get more than the Braves would be willing to spend and perhaps the guarantee of an everyday job.
an everyday job? maybe. he plays just a serviceable CF these days, and doesnt have the numbers to start at a corner. i could see him getting an everyday job, but i wouldnt be surprised to see him signed as a 4th OF on a team like the braves, who are going to need their 4th outfielder often.
DAP
October 20th, 2011
11:57 am
and i think ross will also definitely get a pay cut. i dont think anyone will pay him over $6.5 mil.
Arkansas Transplant
October 20th, 2011
12:00 pm
What about someone like Juan Rivera as a 4th outfielder? He’d at least bring a right handed bat with some pop and might come at a reasonable price.
DAP
October 20th, 2011
12:01 pm
AT What about someone like Juan Rivera as a 4th outfielder? He’d at least bring a right handed bat with some pop and might come at a reasonable price.
yup.id put him on the list.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
12:03 pm
jeffrey d – Braves attendance is relatively stable and hardly iffy. They pull in around 2.3 -2.5 mil on an annual basis – usually good for 15th out of 30 teams and their salary tends to be 15th among 30 teams.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
12:04 pm
couch tater – Well, if L. Ron Hubbard was right, you get re-incarnated twelve years after you die. Jason can’t be Scatman if Hubbard was right
Arkansas Transplant
October 20th, 2011
12:06 pm
And another guy I’d like to see us take a flier at would be Justin Duchscherer. He would come at a very low cost but could pay very high dividends, we could use him as a right hander out of the pen or possibly let him compete during spring for the 5th starter spot. The guy is coming off back after missing all of last season but might be a great addition if he stays healthy and pitches like he did before he was injuried.
Grizzled Veteran
October 20th, 2011
12:06 pm
I’ve got a question: Does anyone know if statistics are kept on fly outs to the wall? The reason I ask is because it seemed to me the Braves would have three “almost” home runs to every one of the opposition. If this is true (or close to it) for home games, it would seem they could benefit greatly by bringing in the fences by 3 to 5 feet, especially in the deep power alleys.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
12:08 pm
IA Brave – Medlen and/or Martinez for long relief. Medlen, Martinez and Varvaro to go more than an inning in relief at any given time (takes a lot of added innings from O”Ventbrel). Add a situational LHRP and then O’Flaherty, Venters and Kimbrel.
Done deal with no need to look elsewhere except for that situational lefty.
Shaun
October 20th, 2011
12:12 pm
You choose to believe your opinion is the only valid opinion, and is infallible
raleighbravefan, No. I just believe that the things I bring up shouldn’t be brushed aside simply because we should assume the Braves or other baseball organizations are making the appropriate decisions in every single instance.
Baseball teams make mistakes. And the fan (i.e., customer) base’s responsibility to hold them accountable and to ask questions when something doesn’t seem to make sense. Of course teams are going to have inside information that no one has but it’s also true that they aren’t infallible, and that it’s okay for fans (customers) to be harsh and demand they answer for the decisions that don’t make sense on the surface. But go ahead and keep believing that baseball organizations and managers are incapable of doing wrong and making unwise decisions, and don’t deserve to at least be pressured.
Shaun
October 20th, 2011
12:14 pm
Grizzled Veteran, I know some organization keeps track of “wall-scraping” homeruns or homers that just barely leave the park. I remember hearing, after the Alex Gonzalez trade last year, that he led the AL in these types of homeruns.
Arkansas Transplant
October 20th, 2011
12:18 pm
Jamey Carroll may be a good choice as a roll player off the bench?
Arkansas Transplant
October 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
Ideally, I’d like to see us sign Willingham and move Prado to super utility. We could then sign Agon to play SS and sign Carroll as our other super sub.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
12:22 pm
Efrim – Ordinarily, I’d agree with you re: relief pitchers and their re-signing. However, not so much with EOF.
Dude is 26 (still pretty young). Three year trend of lower ERA (though hard to do it again next year). Three year trend less runs per year. 2.49-1 K to BB rate. 1.117 WHIP and he made less than $900, 000 in first year arbitration and will never receive closer’s money.
I’d imagine he makes about 1.5 mil in arb this year and likely not much more his third year arb eligible. I could see them signing him to a three year deal after he hits Free Agency for a couple of mil per when they actually have more to spend. It might well be a good investment.
George
October 20th, 2011
12:23 pm
Good afternoon y’all
I have read page 20, mostly intelligent posts, so I am off to look at NFL match-ups to make my weekend picks.
Arkansas Transplant
October 20th, 2011
12:23 pm
Signing Duchscherer would give us a good wild card much like Lopez did this past season.
Lew
October 20th, 2011
12:25 pm
Transplant – Willingham might well be a decent player to put in left, but he’s a Free Aent, made $6 mil last year when he hit 29HR and knocked in 98. No way they can afford him for this year. Besides, Prado plays left and third base. That’s just the way it will be.
JFP
October 20th, 2011
12:26 pm
Shaun, why do you keep trying to make more of Heyward being benched? He was in a slump and we needed a spark. We got it and used it until it went out. That’s what you do, adapt and adjust. It wasn’t like benching Prado made a lot of sense because he was playing left and 3rd. Besides, don’t be surprised if Constanza doesn’t even make the team next year. It’s not like he is what you would want in a full time outfielder anyway. Wren said we need more production from our outfield and that is a fact. We have speed and a slap hitter out there now, we need to upgrade with power and a higher batting average than .250. Heyward should be able to provide that and most of us hope he will. But it’s just like any job, potential is great, but you are only as good as the results you provide. Potential is great