Great hitters can shine brightest in postseason

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TennesseePaul

October 18th, 2011
3:50 pm

I’ve never understood this. I’m not sure where people are getting this.

2010 First half: .251/.366/.455(303 PA’s)
2010 Second half: .302/.419/.457(320 PA’s)

You know exactly why, Efrim. Every one remembers this:
1st half: .301/.421/.596/1.017 with 10 HR in two months
DL stint: .181/.287/.245/.532
2nd half… lost interest.

When he came back to slug 150 points less in the second half, he wasn’t as amazing. Contrary to anti-baseball-conversation-propaganda espoused by one on here, casual fans aren’t remembering RBI. They are remembering home runs. Heyward went from 10 home runs in 2 months to 8 home runs the rest of the season. Basically a 30 homer rate to a 12 homer rate. Great start to the career, very unimpressive the rest of the way. And then he added his atrocious 2011 campaign which was worse than Francoeur’s sophomore season. So he’s hit .246/.349/.392/.742 since starting his career at .301/.421/.596/1.017.
889 Plate appearances of .246/.349/.392/.742. Sorry, but that is not a good major league right fielder.

I hope that kid turns it around. I know he could be so much more.

Bobby's Cox

October 18th, 2011
3:52 pm

Postseason hitting is all about getting deep into counts, taking walks, and putting the ball in play. If you overswing like the Braves postseason teams do, you’re going to lose. You have to make these pitchers earn their outs.

N8

October 18th, 2011
3:52 pm

Efrim, totally agree. But we sure could use a couple of guys that quietly go about their business. But like my last comment in that post stated, I agre…. I don’t think he’s that much (if any) better than say a guy like Vizcaino could be in the pen next year.

IABrave… To me Cuddyer would be the PERFECT fit, if the money fits. Guy can play both corner IF positions. Bother Corner OF positions and is a really good hitter. Just think he’s going to be too expensive.

But yeah, I think he’d be a great fit, allowing Prado to move back to the utility role. Not sure if he’s that much better of a hitter than Prado when Prado is healthy. But I don’t expect Prado to stay healthy, so there lies the problem.

I can actually see Wren making a Lance Berkman type of move. By that meaning, taking a chance on a guy that has kind of been brushed to the side, be it for slumping or for injury reasons. A guy like Grady Sizemore who would probably come fairly cheap.

Certainly doesn’t solve all of our issues. But since technically, Chipper, Prado and Heyward are all in that same boat (aging, injured, slumping), why not add a few more to the mix? They’re clearly not going to “bench” Chipper. They might make Prado the utility guy? Who knows? Heyward is going to be given EVERY opportunity to be the starting RF.

What free agent that is a “diffference maker” is going to sign with the Braves to play part time? Or be a backup plan?

A guy coming off of a couple of injury laced seasons. That’s who. Like Troy Glaus did two years ago.

Or Wren is going to have to make a trade for a young guy that can help at many positions and then be under control and able to take over for Chipper or Prado in 2013.

Or Wren stands pat (I don’t think that’s happening).

I’d love to see him go get Bonifacio from Floriday. Not sure what it would take. But that guy could be exciting with Bourn at the top of the order and he can play anywhere. Might be worth looking into giving up one of the young arms for him.

I also would welcome the signing of Betemit to be the uber utility guy if they intend on keeping Prado in LF. There is so many ways for Wren to go. It’s almost endless. Some better ideas than others. Some not.

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
3:52 pm

I could see Wren going after some one that was mentioned in trade rumors last year? Braves have done that before.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
3:53 pm

Ward – Seriously? Do we really need an outfielder making almost $7 mil a year who just hit .237, .310, .363 last year?

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
3:53 pm

Like your last post N8, Interesting…..

Lew

October 18th, 2011
3:54 pm

Thought you had high hopes?

N8

October 18th, 2011
3:54 pm

Well put at 3:50 T-Paul.

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
3:54 pm

Ludwick is a little high there……But sure would be interesting……

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
3:58 pm

Lew: I do have high hopes,but I want Wren to get us what we need,and save up money for next years free agent list,but Ludwick would solve some problems if Wren went that way.I just see Wren going after some one they had interest in last year,but could be wrong?

N8

October 18th, 2011
3:58 pm

“But sure would be interesting……”

Ward, I think you probably are the only person (other than Ludwick himself) that migt find that “interesting”. :-)

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
4:00 pm

I would go with Pastornicky at SS,and give him the job. Focus on a utility guy,and LF.Thats what I would do,and just bringing up ideas…..

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:00 pm

You know exactly why, Efrim. Every one remembers this

Hey man, I don’t break the schedule up and place the All-Star game where it is. Heyward was great in the 2nd half of 2010. That is a fact.

2nd half… lost interest.

Doesn’t mean it didn’t occur.

889 Plate appearances of .246/.349/.392/.742. Sorry, but that is not a good major league right fielder.

Of course not, but that wasn’t the basis of the comment I chose to reply too.

Tyler

October 18th, 2011
4:00 pm

Anyone else live in Covington? Just saw where one of our mayoral candidates got busted for stealing his opponent’s campaign signs! Small town politics at it’s best.
http://www.covnews.com/multimedia/370/

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
4:01 pm

N8: Guess I do?

cricket

October 18th, 2011
4:01 pm

two years too late for Ludwick

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
4:05 pm

What ever Wren gets,I think it will be an improvement>

Murph

October 18th, 2011
4:05 pm

two years too late for Ludwick

I didn’t really think the Braves would consider signing him until I read this… now I think we’ll be seeing Ludwick in a Braves uni soon.

Two years too late = affordable, undesirable… perfect fit!

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:06 pm

Heyward had a 145 OPS+ in the second half of 2010. I have no issues with his performance and the lack of power in the 2nd half. It was after the DL stint, and the loss of power was expected. He continues to get injured and has allowed these injuries to alter his swing and it;s compounded and made him suck.

I’m all for killing Heyward’s performance, but it’s more about his terrible 2nd year than his mediocre slugging from June 1st to the end of 2010.

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
4:08 pm

Well, N8, I’d certainly welcome Grady Sizemore as an addition. He might be bust, for all I know, but I love the guy. And if he got back to anywhere near normal, he’d be the steal of the offseason. Gotta think Wren will want more of a sure thing, though, even if the upside isn’t as high. Too bad, really.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
4:10 pm

Ward – How is another low average, low OBP player with minor power making $6.775 million going to solve problems for us going forward?

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
4:11 pm

Gardy Sizemore,I mentioned last year,but there was no interest in that one,but Wren could go there too? He needs to get busy soon,before they are gone. I talk later my friends,and peace…..

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
4:13 pm

Might be worth looking into giving up one of the young arms for [Bonifacio].

You’re awfully man-crushed for a guy who has had one good year in a scrub career.

TennesseePaul

October 18th, 2011
4:13 pm

but it’s more about his terrible 2nd year than his mediocre slugging from June 1st to the end of 2010.

If we are discussing the “perception” angle, then it is more about his mediocre slugging and his terrible second year did nothing to help. People are willing to forgive an injury to some extent, which is why many, many people remember the first half pre-injury. However, people aren’t willing to forgive repeated injury issues. Which is why post injury through 2011 he wasn’t near as popular.

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
4:13 pm

Lew: I answer real quick. Ludwick played for Pitts,and he would do better on a team like the Braves than the Pitts….Just my opinion,and talk tonight.

David O'Brien

October 18th, 2011
4:15 pm

Bunch of minor league staff hires and promotions announced, including the Doug Dascenzo hire we had last week (he’s OF/baserunning coordinator).

In addition to rDoug Dascenzo, Braves hired ex-Pirates hitting coach Don Long as minors hitting coordinator, and Luis Lopez as minor league infield coordinator. Lopez served as a Red Sox minor-league hitting coach past four seasons.

Braves have a new Double-A manager, Aaron Holbert, who was an Indians minor-league manager the past four seasons, and led his teams to playoffs in three of those.

Rocket Wheeler was dropped from Double-A manager to manager of the Braves’ Gulf Coast League team.

Jonathan Schuerholz moves up from Gulf Coast League to rookie-league Danville, and Randy Ingle goes from managing Danville to managing Class-A Rome.

TennesseePaul

October 18th, 2011
4:15 pm

Gotta think Wren will want more of a sure thing, though, even if the upside isn’t as high.

#BravesDraftPhilosophy

Lew

October 18th, 2011
4:15 pm

He also played for the Padres last year and did about as badly there as in Pittsburgh. Duid you see where I mentioned he made almost $7 million last year and had a .310 OBP and .333 Slg%?

TennesseePaul

October 18th, 2011
4:16 pm

Jonathan Schuerholz moves up from Gulf Coast League to rookie-league Danville

Is he a manager?

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
4:18 pm

#BravesDraftPhilosophy

Well, if two-thirds of the lineup had not had major suckage last year, he might be a little more willing to take a flyer, LOL. But, as it is, it’s hard to believe that he would add another question mark, upside or not.

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:18 pm

scoots, you made a good point about finding Chipper’s replacement this offseason and moving Prado to utility for one season. That guy is just going to have to be a minimum salary or first year arb. type player. I just can’t see us getting a player making a ton more than that. And Wren would probably want someone with as least amount of service time as possible.

DAP

October 18th, 2011
4:18 pm

I think the Braves will shoot lower for their 4th outfielder/utility infielder type.

Hello my friends! How about a Ryan Ludwick in left. That would be interesting?

not that low.

Ward High Hopes back

October 18th, 2011
4:21 pm

O.K Ludwick ,a bad idea,and will rest with that! Like I said,”just an idea. People can have up,and down years though!peace all….

Lew

October 18th, 2011
4:22 pm

Ward – Not to belabor a point, but…..Ludwick’s numbers have seen an annual decline for three seasons, since he put up his best numbers in 08.

Snotboogie

October 18th, 2011
4:23 pm

Rocket Wheeler was dropped from Double-A manager to manager of the Braves’ Gulf Coast League team.

Is it just that they think he can be a better influence on younger guys and their development or is it as serious a demotion as it seems?

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:23 pm

However, people aren’t willing to forgive repeated injury issues. Which is why post injury through 2011 he wasn’t near as popular.

I’ve already said it smells of a young J.D. Drew. Hopefully he breaks it and posts a 2005 Drew season….okay, that may be a bit much. I’ll take .260/.360/.450.

IABrave

October 18th, 2011
4:23 pm

Old OF who swings for the fences that should be pretty cheap…Pat Burrell or is Garret Anderson still Active?

N8

October 18th, 2011
4:23 pm

“Gotta think Wren will want more of a sure thing, though, even if the upside isn’t as high. Too bad, really.”

Scoots, I disagree becase of the reasoning I gave before. Unless it’s a trade and Wren intends for Prado to go back to being the utlity guy. Because seriously…. no self respectng free agent that is worth a damn is not going to sign with the Braves to be a backup.

So unless Wren is willing to publicly state over the winter that one of those three guys (Prado, Chipper, Heyward) will not be an everyday player, I seriously doubt any “difference maker” free agents are signing with the Braves.

Unless of course they play SS. :-)

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:24 pm

#BravesDraftPhilosophy

This and

Keith Law
The Braves suck

Classic. :)

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
4:25 pm

That guy [Chipper's future replacement] is just going to have to be a minimum salary or first year arb. type player.

Gonna cost you in players, then. I mean, now we’re talking about an OF who can thump AND has some club-control years left. Starting too sound a little pricey. :-)

Maybe they actually can get a high-dollar guy. It’s only this one year that would make the budget bulge, correct? Money off the books next year, and like that? What’s a three- or four-year deal, if it’s the right guy, and you can go light on the first year? Wouldn’t that be doable?

N8

October 18th, 2011
4:26 pm

“Ludwick played for Pitts,and he would do better on a team like the Braves than the Pitts.” Ward

Like Nate McLouth and Matty Diaz?

No thanks.

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:27 pm

I think Shaun was onto something with Alex Gordon. Just not Alex Gordon. And certainly not for Mike Minor, Christian Bethancourt + another. I’d do Minor, Bethancourt and another for someone with a little better track record and some upside. Not sure who the heck that is though.

Shaun

October 18th, 2011
4:27 pm

Oh, geez. Here we go with the Heyward talk.

The problem is that those of us who thought he was benched too often just want to talk about the issue at hand: Whether he was one of the three, if not the best, outfield option for the Braves particularly against RHP. Others want to change the subject to whether he lived up to his hype and whether he had a bad season, and who is a Heyward fan and who is not. No one every denied that he had a bad season and that in 2011 he didn’t live up to expectations.

Until we answer the important issue with regard to his playing time–whether or not Heyward was one of the best three outfield options particularly against right-handed pitching–it’s kind of hard to discuss the playing time and benching topic in a reasonable fashion.

If someone brings up his hype and whether he was bad when discussing whether or not he was benched too often this past season, they should not be taken seriously.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
4:28 pm

is Garret Anderson still Active?

I hope not, for everyone’s sake.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
4:30 pm

Oh, geez. Here we go with the Heyward talk.

Please… don’t pretend like you haven’t been sitting there refreshing the blog all day just waiting for someone to type “Heyward” so you could jump into the fray.

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:31 pm

It’s only this one year that would make the budget bulge, correct? Money off the books next year, and like that? What’s a three- or four-year deal, if it’s the right guy, and you can go light on the first year? Wouldn’t that be doable?

If Terry is down to have a 98-100 million dollar payroll in 2012, then the options grow significantly as we are now in the realm of affording a 2nd year arb. slugger type. It’s all for conversation though. Wren could trade EOF + one of our stud pitchers for a slugger type. Might have to deal someone making loot.

Snotboogie

October 18th, 2011
4:31 pm

I think Shaun was onto something with Alex Gordon. Just not Alex Gordon.

Oh, FCS, I’ve brought up his name at least a couple of times since the season ended.
Oh well.

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
4:32 pm

think Shaun was onto something with Alex Gordon. Just not Alex Gordon.

I fear that Alex Gordon may become this offseason’s Mike Cameron.

In a repetitive, park-adjusted sorta way. :-)

Murph

October 18th, 2011
4:34 pm

Is there a way to project what signing a “name” does to the overall profitability of the club? Not sure if that makes sense… a way to predict what the signing of Jose Reyes would do to fan interest and spending at the ballpark to better predict the impact?

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:36 pm

Oh, FCS, I’ve brought up his name at least a couple of times since the season ended.
Oh well.

Hah! Sorry, SB. Well, I disagree with you and I’d rather go after someone else, if it makes you feel better. ;)

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
4:36 pm

Wren could trade EOF + one of our stud pitchers for a slugger type. Might have to deal someone making loot.

You know, I could probably live with that; at least, today I could. :-) If they see an opportunity to get a bat for both next year and the year after, I can get behind a little trade action.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
4:40 pm

Never heard so much complaining about a player sitting out all of 13 games in 3.5 months of play – which is exactly what Heyward missed after returning from the DL.

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
4:41 pm

If they see an opportunity to get a bat for both next year and the year after, I can get behind a little trade action.

Can we trade Sean Gilmartin yet? No? Sigh….

TennesseePaul

October 18th, 2011
4:42 pm

is Garret Anderson still Active?

I do miss the Anderson’s BlackBerry posts during the game.

TennesseePaul

October 18th, 2011
4:44 pm

Never heard so much complaining about a player sitting out all of 13 games in 3.5 months of play – which is exactly what Heyward missed after returning from the DL

Yes. Especially after spending a day making the case for how little impact sitting a star player has on the outcome of season.

Shaun

October 18th, 2011
4:46 pm

ncscoots, by the way, what did Mike Cameron do the three years after he left San Diego?

2008: .331 OBP and .477 SLG with a 111 OPS+
2009: .342 OBP and .452 SLG with a 110 OPS+
2010: .328 OBP and .401 SLG with a 94 OPS+

Oh, yeah. He would have been an awful replacement for Andruw. The Braves got much more production and defensive value from the likes of Mark Kotsay, Nate McLouth, Gregor Blanco, Melky Cabrera, Jordan Schafer, right? Cameron wouldn’t have been a better alternative in 2008-2010, right?

Shaun

October 18th, 2011
4:50 pm

Lew, 13 games is a lot. Especially 13 games of your best outfield against RHP compared to the alternatives. It’s possible that it could have led to an extra run or a few runs that would have went a long way in a tight race.

But, let’s don’t talk about whether the Braves generally put the best players on the field. Let’s talk only about hype. That’s the important issue. Not whether they played the best possible options.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
4:52 pm

Shaun, and how exactly were the Braves supposed to predict that McNate would take a giant dump the second he put on a Braves uniform?

Shoulda woulda coulda…

Lew

October 18th, 2011
4:53 pm

Shaun – What difference does it make if Cameron would have been better than all these others. He wasn’t there and it is beyond a moot point. You really need to come back from fantasy land (which I’ve been recently told is not in Arkansas). This constant comparison of players that didn’t play for us or likely never will is absurd in the extreme.

And Heyward, whether he was the better option or not was benched because his 2011 performance sucked in comparison to his rookie year. OPS+ be damned. He wasn’t brought up through our system to walk. He was brought up to hit for power and drive in runs – something he just did not do last year. Second year players who’s numbers go down that drastically just aren;’t going to get the benefit of the doubt – that’s just how it is whether you agree or not.

DAP

October 18th, 2011
4:55 pm

scoots, scutaro is this years mike cameron, because i said so. i take credit for the original mike camania.

which, by the way, was justified, based on shaun post. i still say the braves make the playoffs in ‘09 with cameron in CF.

Snotboogie

October 18th, 2011
4:56 pm

Well, I disagree with you and I’d rather go after someone else, if it makes you feel better. ;)

You sure you dont want to have a day long debate about the relative merits of Gordon with a whole of clutching at statistical straws and all that? Sure?
.

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
5:00 pm

He wasn’t brought up through our system to walk. He was brought up to hit for power and drive in runs – something he just did not do last year.

He better walk, or I don’t want him on my bloody team. He needs to get on base and hit for power. That is what stars do. I get your point though. We don’t need Nick Markakis.

ncscoots

October 18th, 2011
5:01 pm

DAP, was that you re Cameron? I could have sworn that it was Shaun who kept us telling that Cameron was just park-adjusted all to hell and gone, that offseason.

Mike Cameron as a Brave would have cost $30MM+ for those three years, and probably a fourth. That the Braves were unable to find somebody better than Mike Cameron at age 35 is not an endorsement of Mike Cameron, by any stretch. More an indictment of the FO. :-)

N8

October 18th, 2011
5:03 pm

“Lew, 13 games is a lot. Especially 13 games of your best outfield against RHP compared to the alternatives. It’s possible that it could have led to an extra run or a few runs that would have went a long way in a tight race.”

Aren’t you the one always talking about WAR and sample sizes? Are you really now going to all of the sudden state that 13 games is “a lot”????

Make up your mind dude. Heyward getting benched for 13 games made less of an impact on the team (since he for the most part sucked anyhow), than Chipper only starting 114 games (and being extremely worthless as a PH in the other games).

Hell. Starting D-Lowe as often as they did. Starting Nate. Starting Schafer. Letting Proctor pitch. Running Linebrink out there in close games….. had more negative impact on this team than Heyward missing 13 games.

I’ll take it one step farther. If the Braves had sat Heyward earlier and more often, the Braves probably win the wildcard by 10 games.

It wasn’t so much that Heyward missed too many games in a tight race……

It was that he played in too many games.

Shaun

October 18th, 2011
5:04 pm

Murph, McLouth wasn’t acquired until 2009. The Braves chose to go with Mark Kotsay in 2008 over signing Cameron. (Yes, Lew, he was available. He was a free agent after the 2007 season, Andruw’s last season.)

Lew, so the Braves aren’t making playing-time decisions based on which players are their best options. They are making playing-time decisions based on what players have done in previous seasons. If that’s true, that’s not a good thing.

What does walking have to do with anything? OPS+ stands for walks or walk rate? That’s news to me.

Efrim

October 18th, 2011
5:09 pm

Aren’t you the one always talking about WAR and sample sizes? Are you really now going to all of the sudden state that 13 games is “a lot”????

Also distinctly remember him saying that 140 games of Heyward was more value than a lot of players can provide and it was okay that he misses 20-25 games a year. Not sure why that isn’t a big deal to some.

Shaun

October 18th, 2011
5:10 pm

N8, whether it made a huge impact or a minimal impact, it’s the managers job to generally play the best options available to him and the front offices job to make sure it happens if it’s not happening.

But, please, let’s change the subject to whether or not Heyward was one of the three best outfield options, particularly against righties. Let’s just talk about whether he lived up to what some publications or fans hyped him to be or whether he was good (points which no one argues against). Let’s just brush aside whether he was the best outfield option against RHP. It’s not important to discuss whether a player is one of the best options available to a team when discussing playing time. We should only focus on how hyped a player was as a prospect and whether he is having a bad year.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
5:11 pm

Well, 140 games WOULD have been an improvement.

N8

October 18th, 2011
5:13 pm

Efrim, I just think it’s funny that after so many of us griped all year long about those close games or the repeat performances (or lack of them) with RISP or runners on 3B with less than 2 outs and were told “it’s just one game” or “it’s early”, blah, blah, blah….

Nobody gave a sh!t….. until we lost the wildcard by 1 game.

This team isn’t good enough and isn’t experienced enough to cover it’s tracks of a slow start or poor managerial/GM decisions by overtaking the mlb world late in the year.

EVERY game counts. Every inning counts. Every pitch counts.

It’s a crime shame that Scott Proctor was allowed to impact the season of 24 other guys by being allowed to pitch as much as he did.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
5:15 pm

Shaun – What does it matter at this point in time? Whatever spin you want to place on the situation is totally immaterial. The season is over. The games will not be re-played.

Time to face facts – Heyward was benched because they were unhappy wth his performance. Period. End of story. Continually arguing he had a better season than Prado (who would NOT have played in his place to begin with) is not only repetitive to the point of nausea, but will not change anything that happened. Bout time you realized it and moved on to another topic.

Of course the next topic will also b (in the immortal words of Jefferson Airplane), Not mean sh!t to a tree.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
5:16 pm

Sounds like Shaun is campaigning for Heyward to get even less playing time in 2012 as he’s put into a platoon with someone who can actually hit LHP.

Works for me. I got your back Shaun.

TnBrian

October 18th, 2011
5:17 pm

Just thinking of RH bats that can play corner OF spots brought me to Jaun Rivera. Thought since he just mudered our pitching staff his numbers would’ve ended better than .258/11/74 this year.

Nevermind

TnBrian

October 18th, 2011
5:20 pm

Lew cant deny though deep down he loves guys like Shaun. That way he has somebody to blog smack around.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
5:21 pm

Tn BRian – Should I smack you down more often, instead? Wouldn’t be very difficult.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
5:23 pm

Proctor actually entered July with a 1-1 record and a 3.14 ERA… then promptly blew games in Baltimore and Philly which sent him into an uncontrollable downward spiral of suck.

If it makes anyone feel better he was actually worse for the Yankees than he was for the Braves (2.818 WHIP!!!).

TnBrian

October 18th, 2011
5:26 pm

Lew, now now. Meds – take ‘em. :wink:

DAP

October 18th, 2011
5:27 pm

scoots I could have sworn that it was Shaun who kept us telling that Cameron was just park-adjusted all to hell and gone, that offseason.

well i certainly didnt park adjust it, but i was all over cameron in ‘08 when andruw left, and cameron signed with milwaukee. he missed 25 games that season, and then had a very good year. then i wanted to trade for him for the ‘09 season, where he put up basically the same stats. he was good for the brewers, and really had an excellent career. consistent offense and very good glove.

now i want scuatro because he has skill this team needs desperately.

Lew

October 18th, 2011
5:28 pm

Mind your manners young’un or I’ll take you to the woodshed and teach you respect…

N8

October 18th, 2011
5:28 pm

No Shaun, why don’t you just brush away the fact that the Braves were 18-11 in games Constanza started.

So whether you want to talk about Heyward being “better” or whatever, facts is facts son. When Heyward was benched and Constanza replaced him? The Braves pretty much won games.

Braves were 57-49 in Heyward’s starts.

Constanza in his starts (29 of them): .307/.346/.396/.742 , 1 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, 10 RBI, 6 SB (4 CS)
Heyward: (106 starts): .230 .323 .398 .722, 18 2B, 2 3B, 14 HR, 41 RBI, 8 SB (2 CS)

Heyward against RHP (since you say he was so good at it), in 114 games:

.240/..336/.418/.754, 14 2B, 1 3B, 12 HR, 35 RBI, 7 SB (2 CS)

Murph

October 18th, 2011
5:29 pm

now i want scuatro because he has skill this team needs desperately.

exactly why the Red Sox will probably keep him…

DAP

October 18th, 2011
5:31 pm

scoots Mike Cameron as a Brave would have cost $30MM+ for those three years, and probably a fourth.

nah. going into ‘08 he signed a $10mil deal with a team option for another $10mil in ‘09. brewers werent on the hook for ‘10. we wouldnt have had to offer him 3 or 4 years back in the day.

TnBrian

October 18th, 2011
5:32 pm

Lew, I got plenty of manners, old’un. If you can’t take a joke or a little ribbing now and again than I probably would question whether I’d respect you anyways. No matter if you’re 90 or not.

Bat Masterson

October 18th, 2011
5:33 pm

Constanza in his starts (29 of them): .307/.346/.396/.742 , 1 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, 10 RBI, 6 SB (4 CS)

After the start he had it’s amazing how bad he had to be to pull his numbers down to that.

:lol:

DAP

October 18th, 2011
5:34 pm

murph now i want scuatro because he has skill this team needs desperately.

exactly why the Red Sox will probably keep him…

no, the red sox have plenty of high contact OBP players. they wont miss scutaro. not saying they wont keep him, but they dont need him as much as we do.

TnBrian

October 18th, 2011
5:41 pm

Maaaaaaarco! Scuuuuuuuutaro!

Uh, no thanks. Alex is just fine at SS.

Shaun

October 18th, 2011
5:43 pm

Lew, yes. The Braves should disregard whether a player is the best option for a particular position against a particular type of pitcher and just worry about whether he’s disappointing. That’s the way I want to run my team. Play inferior players, as long as the better players are disappointing, it’s okay.

N8, Marino wasn’t a Hall of Fame quarterback, because he didn’t win any Super Bowls, right? Scott Brosius was a Hall of Fame player because the Yankees won games at a historic rate when he was their thirdbaseman, right? Obviously one player deserves credit for the team’s record, right? Clearly Constanza is a better player than probably Chipper, McCann and some others because the Braves had a better winning percentage when he started, I’m sure.

TnBrian

October 18th, 2011
5:51 pm

You guys do realize SS that play Alex type defense there and that are solid hitters cost a lot in dollars or players? I’m not even close to a baseball expert (just ask Lew) and I know that. More than a guy who could play a half decent LF and can smack the shi* out of the ball would cost a team anyways.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
5:55 pm

Shaun, you seem to miss the point that Heyward’s poor performance was the source of the disappointment.

You brought up whether a player deserves credit for the team’s record… do you think Heyward contributed to many victories this season?

Bat Masterson

October 18th, 2011
5:55 pm

Clearly Constanza is a better player than probably Chipper, McCann and some others because the Braves had a better winning percentage when he started, I’m sure. _ Shaun

Sigh ……….. and this day started with such promise, too.

First an opportunity to make a little fun of Robert’s, Bobby Cox obsession, it even looked like we might be able to cost him some money for his BR prank, but no…………..

Then it started to rain, stocks traded sideways, my dog ate my expensive exotic fish collection, now Shaun is engaging in hyperbole …………… :sad:

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:10 pm

Man, the 6-7pm EST hour on here really is boring.

Time to head to YouTube and see if there’s any new episodes of Guy on a Buffalo.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:20 pm

Jose Constanza contributed (offensively) to victories in 14 of the 42 games in which he played (33%).

Jason Heyward contributed (offensively) to victories in 33 of the 128 games in which he played (26%).

* Please note the above assumptions are based on stats that I care about and only stats that I care about, namely runs and rbi. They do not include sacrifices, walks, hits, hr, hbp, sb, ibb, etc.

Bat Masterson

October 18th, 2011
6:29 pm

An individuals RBI are meaningless

Bat Masterson

October 18th, 2011
6:30 pm

I’m gonna miss that damned dog

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:32 pm

You can’t have victories without runs or rbi, so therefore only runs and rbi matter.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:37 pm

I guess technically you could have a victory without an rbi, but that’s neither here nor there. Fact is, the Braves would have won 7% more games had they started the season with Constanza in RF and gone with him the entire season.

It’s a fact. Can’t be disputed. Stats project backwards as well as forwards. Making them infallible. You can take a small sample and predict with 100% accuracy what would have happened if here were on a different team. Because players just play, no matter where they are. Cameron would have had the exact same stats if he were on the Braves rather than the Brewers. You can take Constanza’s stats and know what he would have had were he on the team all year based on what he did over a month and a half.

Stats. Mom. Apple pie. Anything else is just un-American.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:41 pm

Somebody argue with me. I have to fill up 20 more minutes before I can go home, dammit!

Bat Masterson

October 18th, 2011
6:45 pm

Swing bunts are not really an approach that holds up over a whole season, if you ask me. Therefore the Braves would have likely only won 14 games over the entire season with Biff starting.

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:46 pm

I guess you all realize that there’s no arguing with percentages derived from statistics, making me the victor.

This must be how Ward feels when he’s on here posting and replying to himself at 3am.

Bat Masterson

October 18th, 2011
6:46 pm

Swinging bunts

Murph

October 18th, 2011
6:48 pm

Bat, those swing bunts were responsible for partially contributing to wins in 33% of games that Constanza played in.

So, therefore, one can deduce that swing bunts actually produce more victories than whatever type of hits that Heyward got.

Once again, I’ve proved that Constanza is superior to Heyward in every single way.

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