11:00 pm October 6, 2011, by David O'Brien
October 14th, 20111:38 pm
Do fans really care if Derek Lowe or other pitchers were eating fried chicken, drinking beer and playing video games during games they weren’t starting? Can someone please explain why that would be a huge deal, as long as there were no reports of them skipping out on the normal workouts or doing dumb things on days they start? I’m not asking if you would prefer they not or if you would want things done differently if you were in charge. I’m asking why would it be a huge deal?
October 14th, 20111:39 pm
”Lester and Beckett were pretty good this season.” Shaun.
From the Boston article; When the team needed them in September, they posted a combined 2-7 record with a 6.45 earned run average, the Sox losing 11 of their 15 starts..
They did not perform well when the team needed them the most.
Any reason to believe or any evidence that the beer, the fried chicken and the video games led to them performing more poorly than otherwise?.Shaun
I don’t know if there is evidence or a direct correlation. But from the boston article;
For Beckett, Lester, and Lackey, the consequences were apparent as their body fat appeared to increase and pitching skills eroded. The pitchers not only continued the routine this year, sources said, but they joined a number of teammates in cutting back on their exercise regimens despite appeals from the team’s strength and conditioning coach Dave Page..
October 14th, 20111:40 pm
This could be a long offseason for us fans and the GM. For us because it might take even longer than usual to see who we may or may not be getting.
Wren likes to get his work done early when he can.
2007 – Traded Renteria for Jurrjens and Hernandez day after the World Series ended. Practically an hour after, it seemed.
2009 – Signed Wagner and Saito in early December prior to the Winter Meetings.
2010 – Traded Infante and Dunn for Uggla in November before Thanksgiving.
All pretty early. 2008 into 2009 was the longest offseason, probably because there was so much work to be done.
October 14th, 20111:41 pm
I remember the Cruz article. He would look good in a Braves uniform. And with Texas enjoying Andrus and Feliz, it would have been nice to take Cruz from them.
Wasn’t there offseason talk about Ellsbury too (although he was coming off an injury). And now he is comeback player of the year.
October 14th, 20111:44 pm
If after next season Chipper said he wanted to come back for 2013 to chase 500, what would you think? He’d be 41 years old and would probably be making $7-8mil that year based on his vesting option..
I don’t think Chipper is the kind of guy who would come back to “chase” 500. But if he did want to, I would not be on board, because he is going to miss 40 games, and his skills should start fading even more by then.
October 14th, 20111:47 pm
Do fans really care if Derek Lowe or other pitchers were eating fried chicken, drinking beer and playing video games during games they weren’t starting? _ Shaun
Well what if there was an extra inning game and the team was running out of players so they had to bring Lowe in to pinch hit. And then, because he was drunk, he swung early at a pitch falling over the plate, where he was hit in the head with the pitch, and killed. Meanwhile the bat flew out of his hands, because his fingers were greasy from the chicken, and hit the pitcher in the head, killing him.
Unless you are a stripper, making money by getting guys to buy you over priced drinks, drinking at work is dangerous.
October 14th, 20111:50 pm
So here’s something you may not have known… cuts inside the hairline don’t usually get stitches… they get STAPLED! That’s right… big, thick, medical grade staples. With a staple gun that looks like it’s some leftover contraption taken out of one of the Apollo spacecraft.
October 14th, 20111:58 pm
ncscoots, yes, I do think it’s pretty much boys being boys. Good assessment, honestly.
I’m sure players do far worse once the game is over, in fact we’ve heard about some of it. Is there really that big a difference, that we should act outraged, between a player going home after a game and eating fried chicken, playing video games and drinking beer and a player doing those things on his off day in the clubhouse?
If you don’t have a problem with a player doing that sort of stuff at home, why do you have a huge issue with it in the clubhouse? I can understand you preferring that players be in in the dugout and hoping your favorite team has rules against such things. But pretending that it is a huge deal just seems naive. As long as players are trying hard on the field and setting themselves up to succeed on the field, who cares what they do in the clubhouse or off the field?
So how many did it take?
October 14th, 20112:01 pm
they get STAPLED! That’s right… big, thick, medical grade staples.
Oh, don’t be a girly-man. David Eckstein would have just torn off a sliver of fingernail and stitched his own self up with it.
Don’t be a beer-drinking chicken-eater, Murph. Man up.
October 14th, 20112:02 pm
I didn’t have to get any staples, luckily… probably because I started crying when brought out the staple gun. They cleaned out the cut, which hurt a lot, dried it off and put some sort of goo on it to help stop the bleeding.
They did give me the option of taking a couple staples, but I told them I’d take my chances.
Lee in S GA
October 14th, 20112:04 pm
I’m really surprise and a little disappointed the Red Sox pitchers didn’t have strippers in the dugout providing entertainment. Why not go for it all and just see how much you can get by with.
No hair shaving either huh?
October 14th, 20112:05 pm
Gary O, do we have any reason to believe the clubhouse antics caused them to perform poorly in September? Seems like that stuff was going on for most of the season. Did they publish the players’ body fat percentages? Saying it seems like there body fat increased is just lazy reporting. You’d expect it from a second- or third-rate media outlet.
Bat Masterson, do we even know that the players were getting drunk? Do we know that they didn’t have a plan for sobering up and losing the buzz in case they were needed for later innings? Also, I’m not even saying I condone this behavior. I’m saying it’s getting too much attention and it’s not as big a deal as the Boston media is making it in order to sell papers and get internet clicks.
October 14th, 20112:07 pm
Dude, I’ve had a lot of stitches in my life… a lot. But I’ve never had staples and didn’t want to start today. No thank you, I’d rather bleed out from the cut on my head.
While I was sitting there waiting my turn, reading the copy of Elle magazine that was left on my chair, a kid came in and threw up all over the place. And I mean projectile, 4-5 feet radius puke.
I just wanted to get the heck out of there. When my kids yack they usually just look at me with that “daddy, help me!” look in their eyes and throw up on themselves. I’ve never seen a kid launch with such force. As disgusting as it was, it was actually quite amazing.
October 14th, 20112:10 pm
But I’ve never had staples and didn’t want to start today. No thank you, I’d rather bleed out from the cut on my head.
Suckers do get your attention, I’ll admit.
Hugo Z Hackenbush
October 14th, 20112:14 pm
Things are getting bad when I find myself enjoying stories about projectile vomiting more than contentions that Soxgate doesn’t deserve coverage.
October 14th, 20112:17 pm
more than contentions that Soxgate doesn’t deserve coverage.
Hugo, maybe you’re just joining us in the ranks of the naive, LOL.
October 14th, 20112:18 pm
Hugo, you should have seen this kid. I’d guess he was about 7 years old.
Best part was he tried holding it in by covering his mouth. With the amount of pressure he had built up his hand was no match and it sprayed everywhere. As he turned towards his mother she put her hands out as if to give the kid a stiff arm and push him away, but the fountain died down just as he came to face her.
Bay Area Steve
October 14th, 20112:19 pm
Good call, Hugo, your 2:14.
And, it’s not close.
October 14th, 20112:20 pm
Hugo, I just think if the media truly thought it was a problem, why didn’t they cover it right away? Why did they wait until all was said and done? Because many in the media are phonies. They aren’t trying to report or cover anything. They are there to primarily get attention for themselves and to see if they can make a quick buck by smearing folks.
October 14th, 20112:21 pm
Ugh. Dont call it that, please!!
October 14th, 20112:24 pm
Shaun, did the media know about the beer/chicken/games during the stretch run or did they find out about it after the season ended and they started to look into possible causes of the collapse?
October 14th, 20112:27 pm
Sh!t. I came in here to check on Efrim, Lew, Scoots, Murph, et al. Click on the last page and the first post I see is Payne talking about Derek Lowe and fried chicken. What a waste.
Speaking of the media, can anyone tell me why ESPN has a headline about LeBron going to watch the Liverpool – ManU game? So he is a minority owner and all that. So what? Now, that is silly news.
October 14th, 20112:28 pm
So major league clubhouses are sometimes like frat houses. Breaking news there! Wow
I’m pretty sure it’s not as prevalent as you’re making it out to be, and I’m pretty sure it’s not nearly as bad as those Red Sox pitchers. And I’m preeeetty sure no American League team has ever blown a lead that big. So I think that’s why people are talking about it.
October 14th, 20112:33 pm
I should’ve said minor-stakes owner and not minority owner, just to make sure it didnt get misconstrued. Oh well.
October 14th, 20112:35 pm
Snotboogie, How’s that Manchester United theme song go?
October 14th, 20112:36 pm
Do we know that they didn’t have a plan for sobering up and losing the buzz in case they were needed for later innings? _ Shaun
Kind of reminds me of the time I was working for a large commercial construction company when I was a 22 year old kid. They specialized in building churches, we were building a huge one and I was running a crew of about ten guys.
I was doing some side work, remodeling a restaurant and one of the guys on my crew was helping me. So on the last night, when I had to wrap that up, he showed up late to help me drunk, so I had to send him away and worked all night to finish up by myself.
The next morning he came in hung over and I told him to get in the snorkel-lift with me to do something. So I boomed us about 50 feet, all the while he was telling me he was sorry about the night before. When I stopped I told him he was not nearly as sorry as he was gonna be, grabbed him and hung him over the rail by his legs. After I felt like I had scared him enough I pulled him back in and told he if he ever screwed me over again he best not show up after or I would throw him out.
I seem to recall they had to mail him his paycheck. I was a little high strung in those days.
October 14th, 20112:37 pm
It might just be speculation, and if the team was winning, it probably wouldn’t be as big a deal. But when your team is in the middle of a historic collapse, the least they could have done is be in the dugout with the guys, cheering them on, showing support etc,.instead of appearing not to care.
October 14th, 20112:38 pm
Okay, I’ll take a whack at this…I have no way of knowing why the reporters didn’t break this story until now. But I think that Red Sox fans, who pay money to see these guys play, have a right to know if some players are doing things detrimental, or at least potentially detrimental, to team performance. For the reasons cited by others, it’s a bad idea to get hammered in the clubhouse during a game. And I hope nobody mentions David Wells, or Dock Ellis, or any other knucklehead who managed to get away with it.
October 14th, 20112:41 pm
How’s that Manchester United theme song go?
Something about them being the biggest thugs in England or something?
I hate those guys, so wrong person to ask I’m afraid.
The Liverpool motto is “You’ll never walk alone.”
LeBron saw that and said “Yeah, right!” and chuckled.
Why do you ask?
October 14th, 20112:42 pm
And what somebody ought to be investigating is the decline in quality of fast-food franchise chicken through the years. What’s going on?
October 14th, 20112:44 pm
Probably the fans would’ve preferred to hear that they had the Jared-endorsed 6 gms of fat or less Subway sandwiches.
Five……….Five……..Five dollar footlongggggg
October 14th, 20112:46 pm
“what somebody ought to be investigating is the decline in quality of fast-food franchise chicken” – HUGO
I made a post on this very topic, and was ignored. I think people have their heads in the sand. ‘You can’t handle the truth…’
October 14th, 20112:48 pm
I think Beckett’s looking into it now.
October 14th, 20112:52 pm
It’s not a surprise that Shaun isn’t capable of seeing things in anything but black and white. He’s kind of the Mr. Spock of the blog who could see someone crying and observe, “your face it wet.”
Beckett makes 16 mil a year. If his manager wants his azz in the dugout when he isn’t pitching as part of his obligation to making 16 mil a year then that’s how it should be. If I’m in the dugout cheering my team mates on and encouraging them or if I’m in the field working my tail off and see that Beckett and company aren’t there, then I’m pizzed. It’s not like we are a bunch of half azzed amateurs posting on a blog without a clue….. John Kruk, Jack McKeon and others opined that it was BS for those guys to be in the clubhouse drinking beer instead of supporting their mates from the dugout.
So in essence Shaun it takes a 25 man roster and the coaching staff to make it come together. YOU may not care if Beckett isn’t in the dugout but is swilling beer in the clubhouse during the game. It mattered to some of his teammates. It mattered to Francona. It must not have mattered to ownership. IF it creates friction with personel, then its a problem. It became a problem.
We have seen some teams have success, be it short term success, with a dysfunctional clubhouse. That is the exception, not the rule.
October 14th, 20112:57 pm
Come to think of it jeffrey, Beckett could get an endorsement deal out of this. “When I’m goofing off in the clubhouse, my chicken of choice is…”
October 14th, 20112:58 pm
haha…Mr. Spock. That’s a good one
October 14th, 20112:59 pm
Well You can eat fried chicken and about anything else if you just win baby. Losers are scum for taking 15 mil and partying during a game.
October 14th, 20113:05 pm
You are killing me today. I just read the donut story followed by the projectile vomiting one.
During the projectile vomiting one I laughed so hard I spit all over my computer screen, then knocked a glass of water on my keyboard.
Control key doesn’t work right now, but it will come back!
“Hi I’m Josh Beckett, and I Eat More Chicken when I’m in the clubhouse”
McFann O O o
October 14th, 20113:06 pm
Braves.com has a Q&A with Chipper. I haven’t finished it yet, but I like what he said here:
I will never blame a hitting coach, because once you get to this level, you know what you’re doing. Can a hitting coach make a difference? Yeah. But I think it’s up to a player to make certain adjustments. Larry put his time in with each and every guy that needed help. It helped some and didn’t help others.
October 14th, 20113:07 pm
what somebody ought to be investigating is the decline in quality of fast-food franchise chicken
You can actually tell there’s been a decline???
October 14th, 20113:09 pm
flange, it’s just been one of those days. My head hurts and i can’t get the smell of puke out of my nose.
October 14th, 20113:10 pm
Gee, thanks for sharing your doctor visit story. Glad I read that after I ate my tuna salad sandwich…
Poor kid, though. Bless his heart…
October 14th, 20113:11 pm
Yes Scoots, I can. It once was edible. Now, I wouldn’t give it to a dog.
October 14th, 20113:12 pm
Murph, you have the consolation of knowing George put you on his good list.
Ward High Hopes back
October 14th, 20113:16 pm
Hello evryone!lokks like a slow year this year,and reading from articles,and stuff. It deosn’t look good for us Braves fans. heard Phillies want to up grade third base,and out field. Bet the Phillies make their move faster than our GMs?
October 14th, 20113:17 pm
Hugo, today’s blog comments almost make me afraid to leave my yard. Lethal doughnuts, industrial-grade puke, bad fried chicken, and probably-sadistic nurses who replaced the medical staples with the same ones I use in my nail gun.
I think I may just stay in tonight. Read some Stephen King to lighten the mood.
October 14th, 20113:18 pm
Braves fans, don’t for Wren to do much, but a new hitting coach will be the headlines.
Bet the Phillies make their move faster than our GMs?
What is it, a race? It doesn’t matter if you trade in November or in March, they’re still on the team opening day
October 14th, 20113:20 pm
Sorry the head still hurts.
I do that stuff all the time. I have a group of guys that work for me that install marketing in bank branches and I go out with them from time to time. We have to open a ton of boxes with box cutters and I ALWAYS end up cutting myself and bleeding.
I have used more rolls of masking tape for bandages than I have to mask walls for painting!
October 14th, 20113:22 pm
Have you heard the Stephen King is about to put out a new volume of the Gunslinger series?
And the new novel 11/22/63 is out in November!
does anybody think cody ross is a 4th OF candidate? serviable defender in all 3 spots with some pop, and kills lefties.
this is probably settled because of diaz, but mattie hasnt exactly gotten the job done the last few years. part of me would like to see him traded for PTBNL.
realistically, were probably looking at diaz on the bench in 2012.
October 14th, 20113:25 pm
flange, is that supposed to be some kind of prequel, or something, re The Gunslinger? I mean, the last book was pretty final in its plot, I thought.
‘Course, King only wrote several thousand pages of that series, and probably has at least that many pages of stuff he cut, LOL.
“Heard Phillies want to up grade third base”
That’s cool. We’ll take Polanco. His on base is almost 70 points higher than A-Gon’s.
October 14th, 20113:26 pm
Boston the literary capital of the world? Seriously, Peter Gammons is not a literati and Thoreau died a long time ago – besides, he lived outside the city anyway.
One problem ,Wren will be broke by the pay raises……
It’s not a surprise that Shaun isn’t capable of seeing things in anything but black and white.
Hilarious. LOL! I’m not the one saying it is clearly wrong or clearly right what these players did. I’m the one saying there is a gray area. It’s not good for players to be in the clubhouse drinking beer, eating chicken, playing video games during games but it’s also not an outrage. There is a gray area. Just type what you want to type and believe it without regard to truth, and see how that makes you look.
And did any teammates or the manager come out and say they really had issues with this? Show me some quotes where teammates specifically addressed this. Until then, you are just projecting what you believe onto the Red Sox players. Do presumably sane people really have this much trouble with comprehension and critical thinking?
October 14th, 20113:27 pm
POLANCO FOR VENTERS ?????????????
October 14th, 20113:28 pm
The only way, Wren will be able to do some thing is by trading,nabd thats an if?
Brave New World
In retrospect, 2011 was only dissapointing because the Braves seemed a lock for the playoffs but folded in September. We played and won our share of close games, and then when it came down to September we had a let down. The fact that we gave so many young talented players MLB experience will help us in 2012 and beyond. Although he is a future HOF player, Chipper is clearly past his prime and hopefully 2012 will be his last year (unless he decides to go DH in the American League for a year or two). I don’t like the way the team has handled Heyward’s dissapointing 2011 – either support him or trade him, but publicly telling him he may not start next year is not a great way to motivate anyone. It would be great if we could trade Lowe and only eat half his salary, but that’s not likely. I’d like to see us extend Bourn’s contract beyond 2012. I’d also like to see us sign someone like Jimmy Rollins.
meant to say,and thats an if on trading……
October 14th, 20113:29 pm
I don’t think the Phillies will be able to make any big upgrades at 3B. Unless of course Aramis Ramirez takes a below market deal just to play with a contender. He’s really the only option at third base from a free agency standpoint.
October 14th, 20113:32 pm
If Wren can dump Lowe? I could see some thing happening,but just from what I read, it doesn’t sound so good.
October 14th, 20113:34 pm
Is it normal for liquid stitches, aka superglue, to burn like this? Holy moly, my cut hurt less than this.
DO YOU KNOW WHY EFRIM?? BECAUSE RAJ IS THE STUPIDEST GM IN SPORTS EXTENDING RYAN HOWARD IN 2010 WITH 2 YEARS LEFT ON HIS CONTRACT 5 MORE YEARS AT 25 MILL PER YEAR WHICH STARTS NEXT SEASON, EVEN IN 2010 HIS STATS WERE DECLINING, WHAT WAS THE RUSH?? ESPECIALLY WITH FIELDER AND ALBERT BECOMING FREEAGENTS THIS YEAR, AS A PHILS FAN THAT MOVE WILL BE THE DEMISE OF PHILLIES AND MAKE THE NATS THE PHILS AND THE PHILS THE NATS BY 2013 BOOK IT THAT MOVE MAKES ME SICK 2 MY STOMACH HOWARD MUST HAVE PICTURES ON RAJ
October 14th, 20113:36 pm
We should be listening to Southern Culture on The Skids while reading the blog – Fried Chicken and Gasoline. Great song.
October 14th, 20113:37 pm
POLANCO FOR VENTERS ?????????????
For a guy who played in 122 games last year, to back chipper (who played in 126 games) up at 6.2 mil with 1 mil buyout next year? Not to mention at the cost of one of the filthiest BP arm. No way.
October 14th, 20113:38 pm
Do presumably sane people really have this much trouble with comprehension and critical thinking?
Shaun, if you’d ever played a team sport then you’d realize how lacking your assumptions are when you assume that teammates didn’t have a problem with guys sitting in the clubhouse having a party.
And getting picked last in kickball doesn’t count as a team sport.
So you’d trade Venters for an older, more expensive, more injury prone version of Martin Prado?
Phillies have 113 million committed to nine players before arbitration raises to Cole Hamels, Hunter Pence, Kyle Kendrick, Ben Francisco, Pete Orr and Wilson Valdez. That probably gives them something like 25 million to work with if they have the same 165 million dollar payroll. Of course, they still need to re-sign Jimmy Rollins and a sign a closer. I expect Madson to leave and for them to go after K-Rod or Papelbon. Amaro seems like the type of GM to invest big dollars and a multi year contract in a relief pitcher.
October 14th, 20113:39 pm
Well, it does seem that Francona was a little slack in running his club. But, really, if the Red Sox hadn’t collapsed, does the chicken and beer in the clubhouse during the game become an issue? I doubt it even surfaces.
This goes back to the old saying that victory has a thousand fathers and defeat is an orphan. The knives are out for the Red Sox, a team expected to be post-season and World Series contender. Not pretty.
POLANCO THE BEST FIELDING 3B IN MLB ALSO A ALLSTAR 2B INCASE UGGLA STRUGGLES OR GETS INJURED THAT WOULD BE A WIN WIN TRADE FOR BOTH CLUBS
Notice that Shaun asks about the thought process of sane people. Pretty well shows which side of that fence he’s on.
October 14th, 20113:40 pm
Aramis Ramirez is going to marlins. Bank on it…
DO YOU KNOW WHY EFRIM?? BECAUSE RAJ IS THE STUPIDEST GM IN SPORTS EXTENDING RYAN HOWARD IN 2010 WITH 2 YEARS LEFT ON HIS CONTRACT 5 MORE YEARS AT 25 MILL PER YEAR WHICH STARTS NEXT SEASON, EVEN IN 2010 HIS STATS WERE DECLINING, WHAT WAS THE RUSH??
I agree with you. I don’t think there is a more overrated GM in the sport.
It was supposed to be a short story that falls in between volume 4 and 5. But as with all things King it turned into an 800 page monster!
The new novel also looks interesting, a guy gets to go back and try to stop the Kennedy assanation
Still can’t believe you guys owe $125 million to Howard over the next 5 years…
At least every game is a sellout in Philly, so those revenue streams should help to cover a large portion of that salary.
October 14th, 20113:41 pm
Still think Ryan Howard should have run out that ground ball vs the Cardinals. No heart.
October 14th, 20113:42 pm
You’re probably right. Makes a lot of sense for them. But if the Phils decide not to re-sign Rollins, they could dump their money in another aging slugger.
October 14th, 20113:43 pm
What I like is they way the Phillies go out ,and get the people they need. Have respect for that. The Braves Gm’s are some what Pathetic some times,but I’ll just have to keep hope alive……
Yes, I had heard about that one. And I’m good with any story about Roland and the crew, frankly (I really want to know about the last battle that claimed all his mates and started him on his quest, that would be a good one). Anyway, thanks for the heads-up, I’ll check into it.
October 14th, 20113:44 pm
No way in [heck] should we EVER give Venters to the friggin’ Fillies. That’s like Gen. Custer giving guns to the Indians…
I’m sure players do far worse once the game is over, in fact we’ve heard about some of it. Is there really that big a difference, that we should act outraged, between a player going home after a game and eating fried chicken, playing video games and drinking beer and a player doing those things on his off day in the clubhouse? — Shaun
Wren has budget constrains that the Phillies GM doesn’t have, Ward. Might that be part of Wren’s reluctance?
Dumbest contract ever handed out. If they had waited, Howard would be a free agent at the end of this season, I believe. Wonder what sort of contract he would of gotten. An aging, unathletic slugger who can’t hit lefties in the middle of their order for the next 5 years. With a 10 million dollar buyout that 6th year. Just awful.
October 14th, 20113:45 pm
Ward – You do understand the concept of budgets and the fact that if you don’t have money in the budget you can’t just go out and buy what you want?
Wren does a damned fine job working with the budgetary constraints he’s faced with and gets what he can with the money he’s given to work with.
October 14th, 20113:46 pm
Wilson Betemit is going to get a lot of free agent love, I think, this offseason. Very little third baseman available. Him and ARam, really.
The whole thing can be frustrating,but I’m workong on beeing cool here……
October 14th, 20113:47 pm
Shaun – What you really don’t seem to understand is that when you’re wearing the uniform you’re being paid and it’s not an off day even if you’re not scheduled to pitch.
Awful for the Phillies, but good for the Braves. I can’t wait to see the young guns tear Howard up for the next 4 or 5 seasons… going to be a hoot.
October 14th, 20113:48 pm
Wilson Betemit is going to get a lot of free agent love, I think, this offseason.
They all look pretty, if there’s just two in the room.
Lew: I’ve been reading about it,and thats why I’m frustrated. I’m trying to keep things all in stride…..
Nor is a player “off” when he’s at the stadium.
October 14th, 20113:49 pm
“You do understand the concept of budgets and the fact that if you don’t have money in the budget you can’t just go out and buy what you want?”
That’s garbage. I live in America. I’m an American. What the HECK is a budget?!?
Enter your comments here
Although a case COULD be made for Doc Ellis having gotten off when he pitched his no hitter on acid.
Yeah, I agree… I sure would love for the Braves to pick him up as a backup. I still think Betemit has some skills.
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