Wren, Fredi G. reflect on collapse, look ahead

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Random

October 7th, 2011
10:52 am

Kentavo (October 7th, 2011 9:54 am): “Also, I’d like to know if how they intend to fix the offense is by instilling the new philosophy (battling at the plate) or if they’re going to remake the roster with guys that already practice this approach?
I would like to see them go after some guys with post-season success – instead of going after the crappy teams’ good players (Bourne, Uggla, McClouth) who don’t know how to perform in a pennant race and with expetactions of winning.”

Dam wight — the Braves should be going after the good teams’ crappy players — at least they “know how to perform in a pennant race and with expetactions of winning”.

:roll:

Braves fan

October 7th, 2011
10:55 am

Better hitter in small park. I’d take Bourn over Gardner. More speed, defense, everything except power. Next year Bourn will shine!

McFann O O o

October 7th, 2011
10:56 am

Pogo

Yeah…Prado second and BMac third. But at least he eventually kept BMac outta that spot…

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
10:56 am

The same logic was used that put Prado back batting second and left him there. He did the worst job of situational hitting possible, but still was there every day.

If you could find a reasonable alternative amidst the team-wide offensive suckage of this year, I wish you would have called somebody, LOL. As it is, any singular complaint about anybody in the lineup is like crying about the destruction of the doghouse after a tornado has ripped through every building on your land.

dap01

October 7th, 2011
10:56 am

I was wanting to put Gardner in the same lineup as Bourn. I love Bourn. He is exactly what a center fielder should be. We just need more offense and not platoon players.

JRW

October 7th, 2011
10:58 am

Weak Braves – Jimmy Rollins is one of the main reasons the Phillies are good. By signing him you would fix two problems. You would have a good # 2 hitter behind Bourn and get Alex’ bat out of the line-up !

***********************************************************************************************

One problem with Rollins signing with the Braves is he is already on record saying his camp is looking to get 5 years, $60Mil. Way out of Braves range. My immediate guess is if he doesn’t re-sign with the Phillies is that he ends up in San Fran, which has also been publicly acknowledged as his 2nd choice because it’s his home town.

Shaun

October 7th, 2011
10:58 am

DAP, yeah, Gardner may be underrated. He may be reasonably close to Bourn as a defender. There were some baseball folks who thought Gardner should have been playing center with Granderson in left.

McFann O O o

October 7th, 2011
10:58 am

Haha! That is a good point, ncscoots…

Random

October 7th, 2011
10:59 am

Weak Braves (October 7th, 2011 10:24 am): “Jimmy Rollins is one of the main reasons the Phillies are good.”

Rollins ranked seventh among Phillies regulars in OPS during the 2011 regular season, seventh in OBP and seventh in SLG.

wreckbuzz

October 7th, 2011
10:59 am

Want to fix an overworked bullpen? Then stop pulling starters after 5 innings. Too often they pulled starters after 5 inning, regardless of how well they were pitching because the starter had thrown a certain number of pitcher (above 100 seemed to be the limit). That’s crap. These starters need to get thru 7 innings if they are getting guys out. That’s what the target should be. Youth be damned. Pitchers can get hurt regardless so it makes no sense to handle them with kid gloves. It gets you no where.

Shaun

October 7th, 2011
11:00 am

Weak Braves, Rollins is not a good number two hitter. Utley is appropriate in that spot.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:00 am

scoots I really doubt that he has any 8-figures-worth years left.

oh, me too. i wouldnt give him the years or $$$ that he is probably going to want to start at, but he is 33, not 40. he has had health issues the past few years, but i think he can level out and get that slg% back into the mid .400s, with his OBP hovering around .330. he’ll be a better hitter than most short stops. that plus his good speed and defense, and he is an asset.

if the braves had a gaping hole, a 3 year, $15-$18mil contract wouldnt be bad.

hes thinking more years AND more money than that, though. im very interested to see what happens.

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:01 am

Weak Braves, Rollins is not a good number two hitter. Utley is appropriate in that spot.

Couldn’t you simply change that to say “Rollins is not a very good hitter. Utley is a better hitter”?

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:03 am

One problem with Rollins signing with the Braves is he is already on record saying his camp is looking to get 5 years, $60Mil. Way out of Braves range. My immediate guess is if he doesn’t re-sign with the Phillies is that he ends up in San Fran, which has also been publicly acknowledged as his 2nd choice because it’s his home town.

One of my biggest fears this offseason is that the Phillies “lose out” on Rollins, only to turn around and throw a huge contract at Jose Reyes. He makes WAY too much sense for them, assuming they can afford to jack their payroll up even higher.

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:05 am

No matter who the Braves end up with at SS, I think that signing a good backup needs to be a priority, based on the fraility of available SS around the league. I can’t think of a single player we can get who DOESN’T have a spotted injury history.

Oh-No-Lowe

October 7th, 2011
11:05 am

The Yankees will need Lowe after C.C. walks to Boston….they will be more than happy to take his 15mil contract as long as Jurrjens is thrown in the trade.How about Lowe and Jurrjens for Gardner…not a bad consolation prize considering J.J. is worth more but Lowe brings his value down and J.J. will be due a raise before the other young Brave arms so why not trade a guy that won’t last a whole season anyway?Alot of people won’t agree but this is the way to go considering Gardner could take over in center after Bourn walks and Gardner is only making 500-600 thou a year now!

Shaun

October 7th, 2011
11:06 am

ncscoots, there were a few more reasonable alternatives at the number two spot. Chipper should have been there for the majority of the season.

I still don’t get the thinking of trying to put a guy who primarily is good at advancing runners in the number two spot. Why not save the extra outs, skip over trying to advance the leadoff guy one base and just start sending the best hitters up immediately after the leadoff guy?

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:06 am

not really, efrim. thats a pretty big hint that he will need tommy john.

Are you serious? So every pitcher that has tendinitis or general soreness/tighness means they are destined to have surgery? Are you F’n kidding me? Sure – is it ever a good thing? No. A cracked fingernail or blister could require a player to miss a start. Jair Jurrjens had shoulder soreness way back when he was a Tiger prospect – he then delivered something like 500+ innings of good baseball for the Braves.

The problem here, is that everything is black and white. No grey area. Forearm soreness from Hudson back in 2009 means that every pitcher with forearm soreness equals Tommy John. Why so black and white, DAP? Have you known every pitcher to have soreness in their elbow, shoulder, forearm to have surgery? And not just surgery eventually. A statement was made 12 hours after. The kid could have surgery, but yes, it was a leap to make that statement 12 hours later and I really want his crystal ball.

And no, I don’t believe you would jump to that conclusion if Beachy had it. Way too positive in this forum to believe that from you, and especially Lew.

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:08 am

RC, The phillies wouldn’t have to jack up payroll to sign Reyes. They have quite a bit coming off payroll this year.

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:09 am

How about Lowe and Jurrjens for Gardner

No thank you.

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
11:09 am

still don’t get the thinking of trying to put a guy who primarily is good at advancing runners in the number two spot.

If you think that’s the reason Prado was originally slotted at 2, you’re just not thinking clearly. Or don’t care to. But there’s no conversing with you about that particular player, anyway.

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:09 am

Shaun,

I agree that Chipper would be a good #2 hitter. I also hate the philosphy that the #2 hitter has to “take a couple of pitches to give Bourn a chance to steal”. I’d rather he simply be selective, and if it’s a good pitch try to hit it, whether Bourn is stealing or not. If he DOES happen to be running, odds are that you’ve got a great hit-and-run situation developing, giving the batter a better chance of getting a hit, and giving Bourn a really good chance to move to 3rd on a single, or score on a double or more.

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:10 am

Arkansas Transplant,

They do have a lot coming of the books? I didn’t realize that. I’ll have to go look up their contracts to figure out if it’s a reasonable possibility.

Random

October 7th, 2011
11:11 am

P-Town Brave © (October 7th, 2011 10:29 am): “You do realize Rollins has stolen 30+ bases for 9 of the last 11 years right? And last year he still stole 17 w/ a bum wheel…

“Think before speaking….”

Yes, I do (and did) indeed realize that.

I think (before speaking) that Rollins will never again steal as many as 25 bases or hit as many as 15 HRs.

ncscoots (October 7th, 2011 10:32 am): “Jimmy Rollins is toast.”

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:11 am

Julio Teheran was shut down for shoulder soreness in 2008 or 2009(can’t remember) and only pitched like 14 innings. He did not have surgery.

Arodys Vizcaino was shut down for a partial tear in his UCL – he did not have surgery.

How about we keep it as a case by case basis? Forearm stiffness = Surgery. This, 12 hours after and before any sort of MRI. How about we wait for that MRI? But I don’t have a crystal ball, so if it does come up that his elbow blew, then of course, from now on we will make definitive statements that soreness = surgery.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:12 am

braves fan Better hitter in small park

no, thats not it. gardner has better plate discipline, with more consistent OBP. i dont think Gardner is overall better than bourn, but he is a better offensive player, i think.

and the only reason id say he is underrated is because he gets completely overshadowed on that team, and hits 9th. he would be a leadoff hitter on many other major league teams.

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:12 am

AT,

Wow, you are right, both Ibanez AND Oswalt coming off the books, in addition to Rollins. Looks like they have quite a bit of flexibility.

Pogo

October 7th, 2011
11:14 am

NC Scoots
Good point. The entire lineup was a cluster, but after already using Prado batting second and having a failure there, why put the same guy back in the position to continue to fail again. Almost any alternative would have been better than to continue with the same course.

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:15 am

If you think that’s the reason Prado was originally slotted at 2, you’re just not thinking clearly. Or don’t care to. But there’s no conversing with you about that particular player, anyway. – ncscoots

I think that the original reason Prado was slotted #2 is because he’s a good hitter, and they thought he’d be able to give productive ABs while not K’ing very much. However, whether due to his own perception of coaching instructions he received, I do think that his hitting mentality changed as some point to view the #2 hole as a guy who needed to take a lot of pitches and try to move the runner over, instead of simply being a good hitter. Maybe that was a Parrish philosphy, I honestly don’t know. I do know that I hope we have 2010 Prado next year, regardless of where he hits.

P-Town Brave ©

October 7th, 2011
11:16 am

Random-

What are we betting?

I’ll take that bet easy…..Rollins has about 6 years or so left of his career…..to never steal 30 OR hit 15 again….yeah….

What are we betting?

raleighbravefan

October 7th, 2011
11:18 am

Excellent new blog, DOB. Thanks.

That being said…It’s obvious the Wren interview has brought out the “crazies” again…bigtime.

Been reading the comments…If we still had Yunel and/or Frency we wouldn’t have lost to Giants last year and we would have made post season this year…REALLY??? That’s your OPINION, stated as fact. Ask the guys in the clubhouse what they think. Why are we still having this conversation?

RaleighDawg (whoever the hell you are) – Chipper’s fault? “Is he worth $14M? What could $14M buy?” Moot points, you moron. He has a contract…you can’t just dump him. (I would argue that he has earned his $$$, as I have don many times). Same for the idiot that wants to just dump Lowe….Don’t we all? BUT HE HAS A CONTRACT. This isn’t the NFL, people. Baseball players have a real union.

And, of course, Don (or .Don, or whatever) is back with his crazy “McDowell is injuring our pitchers” theory. :roll:

On the other hand, THAAAA YANKEES LOSE!!! Now for the Phillies to do the same tonight.

Short Stop Gap

October 7th, 2011
11:19 am

I think the Brave’s out to make Chipper their hitting coach/pinch hitter….let Hinske go,A-gonzo go,Mc-out go,Wilson Walk,Dump Diaz and any other 30 something washed up player go…trade Lowe/Jurrjens…..and go with the young shorts in the minors moving 1 of them to third….what have you got to lose?………….No more than you did this year!

Kentavo

October 7th, 2011
11:20 am

You have to think Yankees will be clamoring for starting pitching after getting bounced again – they’ll probably throw $200 million at CJ Wilson. But maybe we can get them to bite on one of ours – and send us Swisher or Gardner.
I get the feeling they’d want Hudson – would have to be blown away to move him, I’d think.
As for our rotation; Minor and Delgado look ready to stay at ML level; Teheran maybe. Vizcaino needs more time in AAA to work on command.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:20 am

efrim The problem here, is that everything is black and white. No grey area.

yes, that is exactly your problem.

as braves fans, we have experience with forearm tightness leading to TJ. so its not weird for us to think that.

of course not every pitcher with forearm tightness has surgery, but that doesnt mean it strange for it to be the first thing many of us think about when the issue comes up.

And no, I don’t believe you would jump to that conclusion if Beachy had it. Way too positive in this forum to believe that from you, and especially Lew.

and youd be wrong. i would be pretty sure TJ was on the way if that happened to beachy, or any other pitcher.

Random

October 7th, 2011
11:21 am

@ Efrim (October 7th, 2011 11:06 am) –

For me at least, the real red flag is “tightness”, as in “tightness in the forearm”.

But of course, you may be right.

We’ll see.

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:21 am

I still think the best course of action would be to move Lowe and pay upwards of 8 or 9 million of his contract if need be, then approaching KC over a trade package that would include Prado and JJ for a return of Moustakas and Crow. With the payroll relief we would get from these moves, we could be pretty aggressive in free agency and could sign someone like Willingham who could serve as a possible 4th outfielder and insurance if Heyward struggles and Chipper was to get injuried or needs rest. Moustakas could serve as our LFer and move to 3rd when needed. We could sign Adam Kennedy to serve as our infield backup and/or we could also sign Betemit. With the extra $$ leftover we could address SS with any of these possibilities… Rollins, AGon, Pastor or someone else we haven’t mentioned. Crow would give us a lot more depth in the pen and both he and Moustakas would be under team control for quite some time.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:22 am

random I think (before speaking) that Rollins will never again steal as many as 25 bases or hit as many as 15 HRs.

im very confident he will do those things again. maybe several times before his career is over, especially if he stays in philly. keep in mind he just did 30/16 this season.

SPS

October 7th, 2011
11:23 am

Great article DOB. I have way more respect for Frank Wren after reading that. His was an accurate assessment of the season. And Lord I miss the Replacements (Originally the Impediments… and how did the vomit get on the ceiling?). If you don’t own the “Let It Be” album, you don’t deserve to keep your music license. Get it folks, and put away your car keys.

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
11:24 am

Almost any alternative would have been better than to continue with the same course.

You won’t get vehement disagreement from me on that point. :-)

I think that, had there been a really viable alternative, you probably would have seen it. But, without one, the option of trying again with something that should work is probably as reasonable as any. I’m guessing here, of course, but I don’t know that I would done any differently.

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:25 am

Same for the idiot that wants to just dump Lowe….Don’t we all? BUT HE HAS A CONTRACT. This isn’t the NFL, people. Baseball players have a real union. – raleighbravefan

We could actually cut him loose today if we wanted too but it really wouldn’t serve us well to do so given we’d still have to pay him and before we looked at other revenues to remove him from payroll, either completely or if we have to pay some of it.

Mike

October 7th, 2011
11:26 am

I won’t keep up with Braves’ baseball as long as Fredi Gonzalez is manager.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:27 am

efrim Forearm stiffness = Surgery.

this is your black and white problem. you took lew’s statement to mean, no doubt, slam dunk, dude is have TJ surgery. i dont think that what he meant. and its not what i meant. based on our experience with forearm tightness, to say “probably heading for TJ…” isnt a leap into thin air.

C.C.to Philly

October 7th, 2011
11:27 am

After C.C is added to the Philly staff and Reyes takes over at short for them the Brave’s better hope that a wild card is added to each league since Liberty Media wants to be tight wads.If there are 2 wild cards it would take a “DOUBLE CHOKE”then!

Lew

October 7th, 2011
11:28 am

From the Yankees Yes Network column by Mike Axisa last night.

“Ivan Nova left Game Five with tightness in his right forearm tonigh, and the team announced after the game he will undergo an MRI tomorrow…….Forearm tightness is a common precursor to Tommy John surgery.”

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:28 am

revenues = avenues

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:28 am

yes, that is exactly your problem.

You have the strangest logic on so many issues. OPS+ not being a worthwhile stat because all parks are the same or league average doesn’t really mean anything. Anyway, but then you make a statement like this:

and youd be wrong. i would be pretty sure TJ was on the way if that happened to beachy, or any other pitcher.

I think a statement like that is a little more black and white than me saying soreness doesn’t exactly equal surgery. I mean, wouldn’t it make more sense to wait for more evidence perhaps from an MRI than to jump to conclusions and label it him as surgery bound?

RC

October 7th, 2011
11:32 am

Arkansas Transplant,

I’m all for moving Lowe, but if we are having to pay as much as $9 million of his contract, is it really worth moving him? While I don’t like him for our rotation next year, I do think that his skills on the open market should go for at LEAST $6 million on a one-year deal, which is essentially what we’d be offering a team if we ate that much of his salary. In my opinion, the best option is to try and work out a deal with the Angels, who have Torii Hunter signed through 2012 for $18 million, but also have 3 younger, better options* ready to take over in the outfield. If we include a B-level prospect we could probably get them to send cash along to even out the salaries, while giving them a better option that Jermoe Williams for the back-end of their rotation next year. Prado could then be used in the super-utility role that we have all speculated is his greatest value, while Hunter can fill in adequately at all 3 OF spots if needed.

*Not sure I’d call Vernon Wells better, but he’s owed a lot more money for a lot more years that Hunter is.

Oh-No-Lowe

October 7th, 2011
11:32 am

Hey Arkansas Transplant!………………..GO SLOP SOME HOGS!!!….I hope Auburn Kicks their Azz!

P-Town Brave ©

October 7th, 2011
11:32 am

Random-

Either nut up or shut up….

What are we betting?

If you really have the stones to think Rollins wont either steal 25 or hit 15 again…..

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:33 am

I knew you’d be back, Lew. When you say “Later, I’m outta here” it usually means you blow off steam for like an hour or in this case(as usual) research to make sure you’re right.

The statement after I penciled in Nova for the Yankees 2012 staff and discussion Jair Jurrjens potentially not being needed by the Yankees was “I thought Nova left with forearm tightness. Seems like TJ surgery is in his future to me”.

Ain’t no f#cking way Lew says that if Beachy or any Braves pitcher goes down with a forearm soreness 12 hours prior.

P-Town Brave ©

October 7th, 2011
11:35 am

Raleigh-

I hate to say this but no….

The Phils need to win so I can stop hearing all the crap from the Cardinal fans here….

Either way, I want the Brewers in the Series, but they can beat the Phils to do it.

Oh-No-Lowe

October 7th, 2011
11:35 am

Hey Arkansas transplant………you are so hell bent on trading with K.C….why not tell Wren to trade Heyward for Francouer????

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
11:35 am

do think that his hitting mentality changed as some point to view the #2 hole as a guy who needed to take a lot of pitches and try to move the runner over, instead of simply being a good hitter.

I find that reasonable. Whereas Chipper’s idea of hitting 2 was the same as any other slot: “get the first fat one and whale on it”.

I do think that Prado’s early season struggles made him more eager for making contact (if that’s possible), and that snowballed on him. He was starting to come around before the DL stint, but no legs after it. Hard to hit without a good base.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:35 am

efrim I think a statement like that is a little more black and white than me saying soreness doesn’t exactly equal surgery.

i dont disagree with you on that, and i never did, which is your problem. a simple statement from lew “Sounds like Tommy John surgery in his future to me.” and took it to mean that lew thinks every injury (since you brought up shoulders and such) required surgery and would cause players to miss time. no one said that. no one even said that every time someone has forearm tightness, they get TJ surgery 100% of the time! you just took it way to far. weve seen it many times. pitcher comes out early for forearm tightness, goes on to have TJ surgery, out for a year. its not weird that its the first thing we think of.

efrim OPS+ not being a worthwhile stat because all parks are the same or league average doesn’t really mean anything.

never said those things about OPS+.

P-Town Brave ©

October 7th, 2011
11:36 am

Efrim-

Not necessarily…..we all kinda made that similar comment when Meds went down….

Besides, isn’t that sh!t all pretty opinionated til a doctor visit is made?!

Why is everyone picking on Lew?

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:36 am

“Ivan Nova left Game Five with tightness in his right forearm tonigh, and the team announced after the game he will undergo an MRI tomorrow…….Forearm tightness is a common precursor to Tommy John surgery.”

So are partially torn Ulnar Collateral Ligaments like Arodys Vizcaino had last year. Did he have surgery, Lew? How about we wait for the MRI results instead of making a statement that Tommy John is in his future?

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:36 am

“Forearm tightness is a common precursor to Tommy John surgery.”

what a leap from YES network.

raleighbravefan

October 7th, 2011
11:36 am

AT – I understand that we can dump him anytime…My point is we still owe him the $15M. Might as well get what we can in a trade, or see if he has a good enough Spring to have any value in the bullpen.

Kentavo – You CANNOT trade Hudson, even if you wanted to, which the Braves do not. He is a 10/5 guy, meaning he would have to approve the trade. He gave the Braves a “hometown discount” to stay in Atlanta, which he and his family love. You think he would agree to go to New York?…He just isn’t a New York kind of guy. It Ain’t happening. Move on.

Felix Millan

October 7th, 2011
11:37 am

DOB- thanks for the new bloggage, and for all you and Carroll do during the season.Please continue the good work this off season, as I feel Wren sounded fed up with the way our season ended. There may be a good many moves this off season. Let’s hope.

P-Town Brave ©

October 7th, 2011
11:37 am

Scoots-

And here I thought Chipper’s mentality was to whine like a little b!tch until they move him out of the 2-hole…

Hmmm… :lol:

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:38 am

I hope Auburn Kicks their Azz!

Please, Auburn sucks.

cricket

October 7th, 2011
11:38 am

Random

Weak Braves (October 7th, 2011 10:24 am): “Jimmy Rollins is one of the main reasons the Phillies are good.”

Rollins ranked seventh among Phillies regulars in OPS during the 2011 regular season, seventh in OBP and seventh in SLG.

Gotta agree with Weak Braves based on Random’s numbers. 777 is the jackpot winner.

Bama Mike

October 7th, 2011
11:38 am

Ypical Wren. Blah Blah Blah. Back up the truck and load em all up I say.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
11:39 am

i thought vizcaino was going to have to have TJ, too.

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:41 am

why not tell Wren to trade Heyward for Francouer????

He was more productive then Heyward this past season.

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
11:42 am

Thanks, AT, that ought to drive up the page hits, LOL.

Revenues and Avenues

October 7th, 2011
11:44 am

To the Clown Who Wrote That:Stick with Political Blogs Man!

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
11:44 am

ncscoots, whatever I can do to help. Our goal is 20K this time, right? :)

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:44 am

“Forearm tightness is a common precursor to Tommy John surgery.”

what a leap from YES network.

You’re too much. I don’t enjoy your posts, but you’re too much.

I mean…. :)

Travis

October 7th, 2011
11:44 am

Seems that the biggest problem the Braves had with TP as a hitting coach was his inability to help the rookies that seemed to have so much promise. That lack of ability screamed inexperience. Having a tried and successful game plan to bring minor leaguers into the majors and help them adjust to quality of pitching isn’t something you just have, it takes experience. TP didn’t have it and he appeared to fail. Why would you hire someone like Parrish that had never been a hitting instructor and had absolutley no resume as such. Over use of the pen that finally caught up with the relievers was a direct result of no at- the- plate game plan. 26 extra inning games!

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:45 am

i thought vizcaino was going to have to have TJ, too.

I know, and it sucks that he ended up having it. It’s cool, we’re getting him back healthy in 2012.

Lew

October 7th, 2011
11:45 am

Efrim – And why would I say it about Nova and NOT say it about Beachy (should it happen)? I have no dog in any Nova fight, I just immediately thought about all other instances of forearm tightness I’d heard about that have lead to the procedure.

What I can’t figure out is why are your reaction was so intense to what I’ve already characterized as an offhand comment meant to convey nothing more than the fact his immediate future could be in question. I’m not particularly a Yankee hater and other than the fact I hate to see any young kid with talent go under the knife, couldn’t care less about it as anything other than an observation. And apparently I was far from the only one making that observation.

Apparently the Yankees are concerned enough to have an MRI immediately done, so maybe there IS something to it?

Snotboogie

October 7th, 2011
11:46 am

(Gardner is) overratted by whom? i dont think he is. he is a very good player who gets on base, runs very well and plays good defense.

Brian Cashman for starters. Recently in an interview about the Yankees courting Crawford to tick off Boston he said this:

‘I feel like we’ve got Carl Crawford in Brett Gardner, except he costs more than $100 million less, with less experience.’

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:46 am

The best part of it all is, that if Nova does have TJ. Lew will beat that chest of his and label himself has Nostradamus.

Bull Dawg

October 7th, 2011
11:48 am

Auburn does suck but Arkansas Stinks!What else can a team smell like when they have a LATRINO for the Head Position!

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:49 am

Apparently the Yankees are concerned enough to have an MRI immediately done, so maybe there IS something to it?

Every pitcher requires an MRI when experiencing a hiccup. Hamels had it a month ago. It’s precautionary and protocol for these types of things.

kme

October 7th, 2011
11:49 am

TnBrian…your preschool days seem to still be present: “First!”…get real. Sounds like you are a child waiting in the cafeterial line.
Good article…dead-aim on Wren with the outlook/goals for the Braves. They need to do an exhaustive search for a hitting coach…even if it takes them until Spring. Find the right guy.
So…so far, so good…of what I have read/seen.

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:50 am

And why would I say it about Nova and NOT say it about Beachy (should it happen)?

Because you want the Yankees to have a need trade for Jair Jurrjens?

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
11:51 am

The best part of it all is, that if Nova does have TJ.

No. Best part is that they might actually consider taking Lowe, LOL. I can’t believe that they would start the season with their two minor league youngsters in the rotation. I guess they could money-whip C.C. and Wilson both, but even that leaves them shy of a full rotation.

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:53 am

Best part is that they might actually consider taking Lowe, LOL.

Yup, hence the thought process behind the initial “leap”.

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:54 am

Dog in the race, indeed. Which is okay, just fess up to it. :)

Lew

October 7th, 2011
11:56 am

Efrim – Again, I ask what is your problem? Why the intense reaction to this?

If the symptom was not considered to be an indication of a potential problem – one that COULD indicate the need for TJ surgery, then why are they having him MRIed so quickly?

Honestly, I hope the kid is fine. If not, it’s not me who will be making an issue of this, just like it’s not me making an issue of it now. Had you not replied in such a forceful and condescending manner, I likely wouldn’t have posted anything else on the topic. Like I said – it was an offhand comment and nothing more until you made it an issue of contention.

raleighbravefan

October 7th, 2011
11:58 am

Shaun – “Chipper should have been there (#2) most of the season”????? I don’t disagree, but YOU were advocating for Heyward at #2 most of the season.

Snotboogie

October 7th, 2011
11:59 am

No. Best part is that they might actually consider taking Lowe, LOL.

They’ll just go get Yu Darvish.

wjones

October 7th, 2011
11:59 am

“ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
11:51 am

The best part of it all is, that if Nova does have TJ.

No. Best part is that they might actually consider taking Lowe, LOL. I can’t believe that they would start the season with their two minor league youngsters in the rotation. I guess they could money-whip C.C. and Wilson both, but even that leaves them shy of a full rotation.”

Wow, then the Yanks could have both Lowe AND Burnett in the same rotation! And don’t we get to play them next year/ Sweet! Plus, for all you Chipper haters, A-Rod has a guaranteed contract with a no-trade clause for the NEXT 6 YEARS!!!!

George

October 7th, 2011
11:59 am

Good morning y’ll
Very good blog by DOB last night, gave us a lot of new INFO.

Efrim

October 7th, 2011
11:59 am

Honestly, I hope the kid is fine.

I don’t. I want him to go down. I want to see Jair traded there for Manny Banuelos and Gary Sanchez.

Sorry for the heated responses. I think one of my favorite posters riled me up even more here on page 3. Carry on, Lew.

Lew

October 7th, 2011
12:00 pm

A need to trade for Jurrjens. Huh? I’ve never indicated the Yankees as a potential trade partner and usually avoid making specific trade recommendations most of the time.

I’ve also said that a trade of Jurrjens could lead to a savings of several mil that could be used for other acquisitions. I’ve also said I could make a case for him not being traded. I’ve never suggested that he would or should be traded – just that it would be one of the few ways to free up some salary room. Never once said I’d like to see him leave the Braves and certainly not that the Yankees would be where he should go.

DAP

October 7th, 2011
12:01 pm

efrim, not sure what to make of your last couple of posts.

i love you like a blogger, dude. but the only person “leaping to conclusions” in this situation is you.

snotboogie @ 11:46 well, there you go. yeah, id say thats overrating.

Jay Dubu

October 7th, 2011
12:02 pm

Fredi should have read the blog…As early as mid to late May, they were saying the Big 3 were going to have thier arms fall off by the end of the season.

ncscoots

October 7th, 2011
12:03 pm

Wow, then the Yanks could have both Lowe AND Burnett in the same rotation!

There’s an even more fun way to look at it; if C.C. opts out and Nova goes down and Yankees trade for Lowe, then Lowe and Burnett would be the only starters under contract and healthy, with 30+ 2011 starts. The aces, as it were. :-)

raleighbravefan

October 7th, 2011
12:03 pm

P-Town – I hate Philly more, and there are plenty of trolls to deal with. That being said…I won’t shed a tear if Cards loose…Pretty sick of them, too…And definitely sick of LaRussa.

TennesseePaul

October 7th, 2011
12:03 pm

Thanks for the work all season DOB. Really appreciated it.

phil

October 7th, 2011
12:04 pm

The dreaded forearm stiffness has indeed often been a dire indicator of Tommy John time….nothing new or dramatic about it.

Phils fan

October 7th, 2011
12:06 pm

..if the phillies lose tonite we deserve all the taunting and trash talking that braves fans can dish out. hopefully that won’t be needed. at least for this round. the rangers look like the team to beat.

Travis

October 7th, 2011
12:06 pm

Efrim….If Nova does require Tommy John, why would the Yankees interest in JJ be a problem for you? Do you think it puts a financial hardship on them….No such thing exists in the Yankee world. Lew simply stating that he might need surgery doesn’t mean he wishes the kid a bad outcome. Don’t understand your line of insinuation at all.

phil

October 7th, 2011
12:07 pm

Shaun

October 7th, 2011
12:08 pm

If you think that’s the reason Prado was originally slotted at 2, you’re just not thinking clearly. Or don’t care to. But there’s no conversing with you about that particular player, anyway.

ncscoots, I think he was slotted there because he is a pretty good hitter that can hit the ball to the right side. If he had been healthy and productive, I wouldn’t have had issues with him at number two. However, I still think someone like Chipper is a better option, or Heyward when he’s right and healthy.

I don’t think hitting the ball to the right side and being a pretty good hitter and a good contact guy outweighs the advantages of immediately putting your best hitter second after the leadoff man hopefully gets on base. The idea for putting a good hitter, good contact hitter, etc. in the number two spot is to have that leadoff man advance and score. I would argue that if you just put your best hitter second, you have a greater chance of the leadoff man scoring plus you have a better chance of your number two hitter getting on base and scoring; i.e., you have a better chance of scoring multiple runs. This is because the best hitter on the team is going to have a better chance to get on base, thereby advancing the leadoff man one base and less of a chance to use up an out doing it. Plus he has a better chance to get an extra-base hit and get into scoring position himself or scoring himself on a homer, and to drive in the leadoff man or at least getting him to third.

phil

October 7th, 2011
12:09 pm

Often, the “lines of insinuation” here make zero sense….

The harmless remark is blown to kingdom come, the ugliest remark is praised….

nothing new.

Arkansas Transplant

October 7th, 2011
12:10 pm

Auburn does suck but Arkansas Stinks!

Coming from an Athens supporter?

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